The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Ian O’Connor on Jeter Legacy, Nick Wright on Rodgers Trips, Niners Camp with John Middlekauff

Episode Date: August 13, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, (3:00) Colin lists his ‘Super Bowl Bubble’ teams that are good enough to bring home a Lombardi, and which teams are sitting outside looking in. He also explains why he’d avoid letting Hard Knocks in the door at all costs, and how Kevin Durant’s career would be better if he never met social media. Then, Ian O'Connor -- NY Post columnist and author of Coach K: The Rise and Reign of Mike Krzyzewski Belichick, and The Captain -- reacts to the new Derek Jeter doc The Captain (12:00), explains the contrast between the careers of A-Rod and Jeter legacies, how George Steinbrenner influenced the dynasty, and if Tom Brady should be catching more heat for discussing Dolphins ownership in his final Pats season. Then, First Things First co-host - and host of the What's Wright? podcast - Nick Wright looks at what’s behind Aaron Rodgers offseason Ayahuasca trips, why Belichick is making the head scratching move appointing Matt Patricia as play caller, and if Andy Reid can surpass Belichick as the G.O.A.T football coach. Colin and 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff tries to pinpoint who’s to blame for the current state of the Giants, if they should bottom out or sign Jimmy G, and what he's seen from Trey Lance at Niners camp. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Fandul-Sports book app, sign up. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast, training camps in full swing. I got a little John Middletkoff on the Niners, Ian O'Connor on the Derek Jeter, New York Legacy, that documentary, the captain. My buddy Nick Wright was fantastic, what's new. His thoughts on Aaron Rogers and psychedelic T, but first my top takes of the week. So I went back about four or five years, and I was looking at the last four or five years of NFL standings. On average, there are about eight to nine, what I would call.

Super Bowl teams. These are double-digit win teams, 10 and 6 or better with a 16 game schedule. Now, I think those teams have to be, it feels like to me a Super Bowl team should have 11 wins, be sort of, you know, 11 and 6 to me feels like a Super Bowl team. So an elite team, very good. Then the league has about 10 to 12 teams in the middle, right, that are potentially. potential playoff teams, probably too many holes to be a Super Bowl team. And then about 10 really bad teams, 10 really bad teams. Some are, and I say bad, I mean four games under 500 or worse. So I tried to, before the season starts, I thought, okay, I'm going to put them in those three groups. Very good teams capable of winning a Super Bowl.

There's 13 I have. This is the biggest number I can ever remember thinking. Not saying they will, but I think they could get breaks. Buffalo, Kansas City, Chargers, Denver, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Niners, Tampa, Rams, Arizona, Green Bay, Minnesota. That's 12. Then I have 10 teams that I consider can't win a Super Bowl, but several redeeming qualities. In the NFC, it's very few. Washington, Dallas, and Philly.

In the AFC, Indie, Tennessee, Cleveland, New England, Miami, and Las Vegas. Can't win a Super Bowl. Could win 10 games, maybe 11. But they've got somewhere they've got a hole. Maybe it's a coaching hole in Dallas. Maybe it's a perimeter playmaker hole like New England. Maybe it's a distraction hole like Cleveland. Or maybe it's just good, not special quarterback, Tennessee, Ryan Tannahill.

So I have 12 teams, Buffalo, Kansas City, Chargers, Denver, Baltimore, Sincy, Minnesota, Green Bay, Arizona, Rams, Tampa, Niners. I think are really special teams. Maybe a hole, not several. I've got 10, I think, have several redeeming qualities. Again, Dallas, Washington, Philly in the NFC, Raiders, Steelers, Miami, New England, Cleveland, Tennessee, Indy, and the AFC.

And that leaves 10 really bad teams in the NFL. Jets, Giants, Jacksonville, Houston, Atlanta, New Orleans, Carolina, Seattle, Chicago, They're going to be awful. And Detroit. Now, some people like Detroit. I've looked at the schedule. I think there are a seven-win team.

Six to seven-win team. That's it. I think they play the Jets. That may be a win. So that's what you have. About a 12-team Super Bowl bubble, 10 that have a chance to make the playoffs additionally. 22 teams out of 32 could make the playoffs.

And 10 that are garbage. With Detroit being probably the most talented of those teams. That feels right to me. I don't like to be a buzz. kill. But when I went back and looked at the last four to five years, you generally had somewhere between seven and ten really bad teams, bad being four games under 500 or more. I think Seattle and Atlanta are next level bad. And then I think Chicago, New Orleans, Houston Giants are really close. So Hard Knocks, this year, it's the Detroit Lions is the choice,

debuted last night on HBO. I'm not a fan of hard knocks because I think it's really unfair. If you look at the history of hard knocks and the teams involved in hard knocks, they're historically really bad. And I think what's interesting is the Colts for the first time last year, the NFL started taping mid-season. Remember the Colts where the team used. You remember that last year, right?

And I said, I don't like in the middle of a competitive season, in a competitive division, Titans Colts. Suddenly, I've got 34 camera guys and producers all over my team. Ask yourself this, what team in the NFL melted down in the last two weeks? The Colts. Something can be good television. Hard knocks often is. but I think it's an competitive disadvantage.

I don't think you can put cameras around people and not change their behavior. Why do I think that? You ever gone to a game, a basketball game, an NBA game or a baseball game, and they put up like the kissing cam and they take shots of people in the crowd and reasonable, well-adjusted people become complete morons. Cameras affect people. you do silly shit. You do weird stuff.

You're not yourself. And I mean, I think about this all the time. I've been on camera, you know, for three hours a day forever. You know, most of my adult life, local TV, simulcasts. You could not put eight cameras in my house with my family and nobody be affected. You can't be real when you're being taped. and I think teams get a little inauthentic. I think the league, by and large, does a pretty good job to make it non-evasive.

But I keep seeing these teams. The Cleveland Browns had it. Hugh Jackson, that team melted down. The Colts had it last year. They melted down. I mean, the Colts personality, by and large, the last 10 years has been boring. They were crazy town at the end of last year. The owner went nuts. Carson Wentz went nuts.

The coach suddenly couldn't coach. What happened to the Colts? I don't think it's a coincidence. I can like the content, the quality of the content with hard knocks, but think it's a competitive disadvantage. I always have. I thought Rex Ryan and those Jets teams play to the camera. Those were really good football teams. Listen, I know it's football season.

Kevin Durant, about a month and a half ago. I want out. Then he went dark, didn't hear from him. So Shams Sharania reported the story. Durant met with the owner, Joe Asai, and said, fire Steve Nash and the GM, Sean Marks, or I'm out. So, you know, Kevin Durant's interesting. So over, I got kids, right, teenage kids. And one of the things I have noticed and had to sort of monitor, and it's a reality if you're a parent with teenagers is social media. It's got a real effect on young people. Because young people generally aren't married.

They're a little self-absorbed. Young people don't have kids or a professional career. So a lot of time, seven, eight hours or more on the phone. And I try to dissuade my kids from doing that. I have said some of the weirdest behavior in professional sports has been from single guys. No kids. No wife. a lot of time by themselves, get off work, go to the phone, Aaron Rogers, James Hardin, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons, right? A lot more time to be into you. And I think Kevin Durant, actually, we know he engages a lot on social media and is pretty sensitive guy. Doesn't wrong with that. That I think Kevin Durant's one of the first victims of social media as a professional athlete. And by victim, I mean, if Twitter didn't exist, Instagram.

Instagram didn't exist, the constant harping on Kevin Durant about joining a championship team in the Bay Area, he wouldn't have left. I do think he would have left Russell Westbrook because Westbrook takes the air out of the ball and Durant increasingly was frustrated that he would control the possession until the very last few seconds, give Durant a pass in the corner and he'd have an awkward shot. And there was a stat I saw a few years ago that Durant was shooting with less time on the clock than anybody else in the league. when he was a member of the OKC Thunder. So I think that would have transpired, that move. But I think Golden State, the minute he joined a championship team, this avalanche, this tsunami of social media backlash that he couldn't beat him so he joined him, I think it affected him.

He was very prickly, more so than usual. And I think it wore him down. And that he didn't really truly enjoy being the two-time finals MVP. He enjoyed it very, very briefly. and everybody around him with the Warriors because of social media walked on eggshells. Bob Myers once joked at a championship parade about KD. It got ooze and Oz from the crowd. It's been well documented that Steve Kerr had confided with players on the team.

It was just a big pain in the ass. You were constantly worrying about offending Kevin Durant. And so I think to some degree, his move to Brooklyn, which has been an absolute mess, two first round exits last year, this year. It's a mess. I think he's a victim of social media. And, you know, from time to time, I don't do it much. But once or twice a year, you know, I'll go speak to college campus and or young broadcasters.

Or even if it's private, you know, I always tell them, don't let Twitter produce your show. 22% of Americans are on Twitter. 78% of people are not. It's simply not a reality. And I think Kevin Durant, it's easy to be fooled, tricked, persuaded, bothered, your anxiety level can go up. It's happened to me before. I just put the phone down. People are being ridiculous. I have so many filters on my phone now. I don't block anybody. I just don't see the criticisms because I don't want to deal with trolls. And I think Kevin Durant, who's been

pretty famously prickly on that and sensitive to that, was a victim of that. I don't think of any of that stuff. If it doesn't exist, he's still a warrior. Because I'll say it again. I thought leaving Steph or Kyrie was absolutely an egregiously bad decision. And I don't think Durant's a dumb guy. He knows basketball. He knows he can play. He was persuaded by social media. This baseball season turned K's into cash.

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It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. He is a regular at the volume, Ian O'Connor, to me as good as sports columnist as the country has, New York Post, also four-time New York Time bestseller. He wrote The Captain, The Journey of Derek Jeter, which, by the way, I'm watching now. And what I think is interesting about it

is I heard some of the critics said, well, you've got to be a Yankee fan to enjoy it. Totally disagree. I've been engaged. It makes me romanticize how big baseball was even 12 years ago. You know, 15 years ago, it feels like the NFL. These games were happening in October. And I'm like, I don't even remember the NFL story back then. It, it's right now, obviously, Ian, in New York between the surging Mets and the Yankees.

And out here we have the Dodgers and the Padre. in an arms race. So like you and I live in this coastal baseball cloud, right? But it does feel like baseball was bigger then in most of the country. I mean, when I watch the captain, I'm like, I can't believe how into baseball I was. Yeah. And listen, it's been 13 years since the Yankees have won a championship. And it feels like 30 years because the history of the franchise, the mission statement is to win it every year. Of course, that's an impossible goal to achieve. But it does feel like it's been a long time. Of course, the Mets haven't won it since 86. But I think that, yeah, when the Mets and Yankees are going fairly strong at the same time,

which is a rarity in New York, it is such a great baseball town. I think New York at its core, there might actually be more football fans in New York than baseball fans, but it really is a baseball town. That's what New York is. And I think we're seeing that now. And right now, the way the Mets are playing and the way the Yankees have played the last 25 games or so, the Mets are probably the better team, which is hard to believe. I wouldn't have said that certainly five weeks ago, but the Mets right now with DeGrom coming back and looking incredible, if he could stay healthy, which is a huge if, I think the Mets are going to be a really tough out. Alex Rodriguez throughout most of the country is seen as a little artificial, right?

You know, it's, you know, the celebrity relationships and, you know, too good looking to be true. You did, you did get a championship. You get a World Series championship with them. And as I watch, you know, Jeter and A-Rod and, you know, the relationship is what you would have predicted it would have been. Whereas it was never close. I think it's hard to be close to A-Rod. And I know him and I like him. But I think they're different people.

You know, one's got a strong family, and one always felt like he was kind of a hired gun. You know, he would go where the commerce was. How today, I know how A-Raw is viewed to a lot of America. How is he viewed in New York today? Because he did help get them a ring. That helps some, but it's nowhere near where or how Derek Jeter is perceived by New York or certainly without question. and I think you said a little artificial, I would say probably a lot artificial just based on the fact that much of his career is tainted. And you have to look at him.

He's certainly a great player. He's got historic numbers. And he should have been a first ballot hall of famer. But the fact is that he used PEDs for, I would think, a significant percentage of his career, if not most of it. And the evidence is there that that's the case. And so comparing him to Jeter, who is looked at anyway as the representative of the non-PED superstar, I think most New Yorkers would tell you that it's night and day that even though ARA did help the Yankees win a championship, Jeter, of course, helped them win five.

And there was never any hint of PED use in his career, certainly. So I just think they're on different planets. in New York. He said nationally, but I think in the city as well. Arod and how he's sort of cleansed his image to some degree in terms of as a broadcaster, as a media personality. I've never bought into that. The people I know who are Yankee fans haven't either.

And I sometimes wonder really how ESPN and other entities really treat him as someone who is embraced nationally and in New York. I don't think he is. And, but he's done very well for himself. I wish him no, it will, of course. But I wonder really if the people who employ him understand that I just don't think that fans around the country really now embrace him any more than they did when he was a player. When I watched, I've gone through four episodes so far. And they keep replaying him.

So I'm going to go back. And you wrote the book, obviously, the Captain Derek Jeter. The Steinbrenner stuff, you know, it's really interesting. When I watched that Michael Jordan documentary, the people that I was supposed to not like, I kind of found endearing at times, right? Like Jordan's bad behavior, I found it sort of endearing in a way that he was so deeply flawed, but he cared so much. And for all the Steinbrenner nonsense, the one thing I thought about watching that, Ian, is, that George was so intense and hard on everybody, including Jeter for years because of his partying, that by the time you got to the postseason, and you had him riding your ass in Seattle, in game 38,

you know, in demanding excellence, that it kind of created a little bit of a medal with the team, that they had this sort of force field around them that George's constant, It's almost comical how much he cared in June, how much he cared about the coverage, that it kind of prepped you for the postseason, that you were like, we've got this guy breathing down our neck. These playoffs series are nothing. Maybe that's a reach by me, and maybe I'm too far removed from it. But maybe I'm romanticizing it.

But I thought, you know, the value was the intensity. This team was so good in big sports. Lots, is some of it George? Yes. Yeah, and I think Jeter would tell you that, too. I think Jeter enjoyed that part of his ownership. He didn't enjoy when he called him out for partying when that was a bit of a stretch. Jeter certainly was not a party animal, and there was a headline that he hated in the Daily News

when he said he didn't have to change anything. It became party on. And so he didn't enjoy that, and he had a good time in New York. It's amazing that he was able to sort of navigate the biggest and loudest marketplace in the country as long as he did without really getting involved in trouble or any sort of scandal. Very few people pulled that off in New York and beyond at his level. But I think he did enjoy George and his appetite and hunger for success, his willingness to spend what it took to put a championship level team on. field. And I remember in 98, that team, that's the best team that George Steinbrenner ever had, 114 games, ended up sweeping San Diego in the World Series. So they won 125 games in all.

But they were one and four out of the gate, if I remember correctly. And there was already talk of Joe Tori being in trouble. It was criminal. Tori wins in 96, gets knocked out by Cleveland in 97 in the playoffs. That was Georgia's hometown team. So that was. is a sin, but they get off. I believe they were one in four in 98, and there was already talk about Tori being in trouble. They win 114 games that year and win the whole thing. Of course, they won it again in 99 and then beat the Mets in the World Series in 2000. But yes, you're right. George deserves credit for being part of the fuel behind that dynasty without question, and not just because he was willing to spend on high-end talent. But he did

establish a culture that harden the Yankees for the postseason challenges that they've faced. And I do think despite his flaws and mistakes, and there are many of those too, that he does deserve credit for those four championships in five years. So of your four New York Times bestsellers, read all of them. One of them, of course, is Belichick, and Brady is through that book. And so we find, we discover, then Tom was flirting, you know, on a yacht with one of the co-owners of the Miami Dolphins. And, you know, I said the other day, I said there's so much outrage on the internet. And my take was Michael Jordan at the end of his career was flirting with Abe Pollan.

Jeter immediately went into ownership. A story two weeks ago, NBA is going to Vegas and LeBron wants to be one of the owners. And I'm like, if you have $500 million net worth, rich guys, billionaires, one of the things they don't have beyond, they can buy anything. They don't have a lot of cool friends. They've got, you know, other business people. And they like to hang out with Jeter or Jordan or LeBron or Brady. And I can see Brady at the end of his career, like Michael and Jeter. And a lot of these guys, LeBron, saying, I'm not putting my money all in the market.

I've already owned six homes. You know, it's like, where to, where, what's the safest investment in the world? And what do I know? A pro sports franchise. So like, I look at it and I don't think less of him. But what's interesting, Ian, and you know this well, we've got deflategate with Tom. We've got flirting with, you know, an NFL owner, why he's a patriot. We have the Bruce Ariens thing where it does appear he ran him out, but he won't own it.

There's a connection to Trump, which makes some people uneasy. Is Brady fooling us, or do you think it is Corey's a good guy and he's just so rich, he's a little tone deaf to some of this stuff? Or has some of this just been wonderful PR with Tom? Oh, I think what you just said about him being a little tone deaf, a rich, very successful man who is a little disconnected from reality. The rules don't apply to him. And I think you saw that too when he ran those workouts with Tampa Bay when the union said, don't run these during the pandemic, right? And he just did them anyway.

And I criticized him for that. And I do think I put something out on Twitter after I saw what went down and what the league found in terms of the tampering. I thought Tom Brady, that was a bad look. And I don't really care about the Tampa Bay part of it because that's when he's looking maybe to go into retirement into ownership. But when he's playing in 2019, starting in August of 2019, he knows. knew he still wanted to play more. He just didn't want to play for Belichick anymore. And when he's talking to a division rival the entire season, numerous conversations, detailed conversations, that's what the league found. Man, he is like Jeter, the embodiment of

the all-in player, all about winning 24-7. And during the course of the year, you're the starting quarterback for one team in the AFC East and you're having multiple detailed conversations, negotiations with another team in the AFC East. And nobody seemed to care about that. I pointed that out. And most people were like, this isn't a player issue. You're not going to punish the player.

You always punish the recruiting ownership group. I felt like, wow, that was really, it just hit me that here's a guy that he was all about being all in. And I find it hard to believe that he wasn't distracted at some point. in the 2019 season, that's the starting quarterback for the Patriots, when he was negotiating with another franchise. So should he have been punished for that? I sort of think probably not a major punishment, but I think for his image as the ultimate competitor in the NFL, I thought that was a really bad look. And I think most people just gave him a pass on it. I was

a little surprised by that. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's sort of like Reagan was so popular. you know, he joked about bombing Russia. Popularity has a force field of its own. I mean, Michael Jordan, who had the first major shoe contract, that Nike shield around Michael Jordan, you can't penetrate it. He punched teammates. He quit twice. I mean, it is. Popularity is a remarkable thing.

And sometimes I think, I think Jeter had it. And I think Brady has it. I mean, it's, look at this. The very last year, the last two years he was in New England, everybody had his jersey. It was still like number one in the league. I mean, Aaron Rogers has been in Green Bay for years, but his jersey is 20th right now. 20th. Tom's is one, and it was won until the end in New England.

I mean, Rogers is a back-to-back MVP. It's 20th. So I think I look at Tom. I'm a huge Brady advocate. But there's some drips. There's a leak in the faucet. There's been some tone deaf stuff. I didn't even think about the practice.

And I think Tom's a good guy, but I do think, I really do think at his heart, he's a good guy. I think when you get that rich, Ian, and that famous, you just, you can't relate. And I almost don't blame you. You literally don't go to the DMV. You don't go to an airport. You don't go to the grocery store. I mean, seriously, it's not a normal life. It's not.

It's not. I think he's the greatest football player ever. My dad once said that there would never be a greater football player than Jim Brown. And as an athlete, Tom's not on the same planet with people like Jim Brown, Lawrence Taylor, Walter Payton, and you think of some of the greats of the greats. But in terms of performance, body of work and the significance of that position, he's not just the greatest quarterback ever. I think he's the greatest football player ever. So I have just a tremendous amount of respect. I do think at heart from doing the book and talking to a lot of his friends and people

who really knew him, I do think he's definitely a good person. And I just think, yeah, nobody has a perfect career. And when you're constantly in the public, you're going to make mistakes and people are going to know about them. And I think he's made a few, whatever mistakes he made into Flakegate. And negotiating with another franchise while you're playing quarterback for the Patriots, I had a problem with that. I had a problem with him running multiple practices when the union said,

don't do it during the pandemic because you're putting people at risk and risking maybe the start of the season if we have everybody running these practices. And that was right in the heart of the pandemic. And so, yeah, but I think the bogeys on his scorecard are manageable. And he's got more birdies than everybody else. So that's why he should go down as the greatest football player ever lived. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

We don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free. I Heart Radio app, search learn the hard way and listen now.

All right, time to bring in my buddy Nick Wright. We don't like to bother him. He's a busy guy, but about every six weeks, bring him on. And I throw just a variety of topics his way. If you really look at what social media is, it's a race to tell everybody you're smarter than them. Aaron Rogers has got into this weird space where whether it's vaccines or a psychedelic drug, instead of like licensed professionals, Aaron is giving you this sense that, you know,

I feel like I'm kind of above this and smart people seek their own opinions. They don't follow others. I tend to follow licensed professionals. And I think when you combine the anti-vax stands and the fibbing on it and you combine it with the psychedelic drug usage, that T, it does to me, this is what happens when you get older,

richer, and single. You become incredibly self-indulgent. You really believe you have all the answers. And I think some of the strangest behavior in sports, Kevin Durant, Kyrie, Aaron Rogers, rich, older, single, don't sacrifice for kids, not married, go home, on your device. You start believing wealth makes people think they're impenetrable. And I think Aaron's gotten strange.

So here's my question about that. Because I think the single component is a really interesting one that I hadn't thought of. But what it reminded me of is Hollywood. And by that I mean, listen, you live in L.A. And I don't listen, I'm not casting aspersions for anyone's beliefs. But I've never met in my day-to-day life as Scientologist. Maybe in L.A. you've come across a few. I don't know.

I'd never met someone. It's like, hey, what's your belief? They're like, I'm a Scientologist. But it would appear that, I don't know, 10% of the upper, upper crust of Hollywood is. And that to me is, I mean, a similar, it's not the same as what we're talking about with Aaron, but it's on the same tree of like, you know, I'm, I have evolved past what is contemporary thinking. And I'm on an elevated plane. Yes.

And I, so the point I'm making is. I think some of this is how people respond to overwhelming fame. So I think like sometimes guys or people, you know, lean into drugs. With athletes, that's tougher because your body's so important, right? So then what do you do with this overwhelming thing? And I think in in Hollywood, we see a lot of, like none of the stuff Aaron's doing would be considered that odd. at all if you were a movie star. Right? Do you agree?

It would be considered really. In fact, of the movie stars, like, you know, Will Smith and Tom Cruise at different times with the biggest movie stars in the world, all of this would be very tame from what, you know what I mean? I've read their different belief structures are, right? So I do wonder if Aaron almost crossed over through the jeopardy and through the different circles he ran in from amazing football player to super famous guy who's great at football. And in that world, like, it's, it, I'm trying to find the right analogy.

But there are, it's just in different circles, different things become acceptable. So, you know, I, I spend a lot of time in the poker community, right? And in that world, what guys are willing to gamble high stakes of money on, in any other world, people would look at it if they'd be like, oh, my God, you have a crippling gambling problem, need to go, you know what I mean, need to go see someone. But within that world, it's totally normalized. And it's just like that is just how people act, right? So if you're running in a circle of, oh, it's totally normal for you to not see a traditional doctor and totally normal for you to try to have these awakenings. Your barrier for injury becomes so much shorter, so much lower. Meanwhile, if I, if you called me and you were like, Nick, next time the herd's all, I'm flying to Peru doing ayahuasca, I'd be like, Kyle, are you okay?

like really this is what you're doing but if you called me and i was like dude did it two months ago it's fucking awesome like then all of a sudden it gives you you feel much more comfortable so if you're around people that have done this you know what i mean that that's there so that's what i think that's the errant thing and i think the i haven't thought enough about the lack of a spouse and how much that and maybe that is maybe the spouse that isn't as famous you know what i mean brings you down to a degree. You know what I mean? Makes you I can't think of the word, but normalizes you to a degree. And so maybe that's an element of it. But I think it's very clear that Aaron is a different

type of cat than we're used to with any pro athlete that I can remember of his stature. Yeah. I think what women do is they hold you accountable. I said this the other day on the air, you know, half serious. Kevin Durant married, goes to his wife. I'm going to leave Steph Curry, Steve Kerr, Bob Myers, the best culture in the league, best team for Kyrie Irving and that mess in Brooklyn. A wife would say, hell you are, go by yourself,

go have lunch with Draymond figured out. That's what my wife would do. If I, if, if, if Kyrie Irving was married and he said, I'm not going to get the Vax. His wife would say,

get to a damn pharmacy. This is a team. I mean, get it for our kids. What, you doing? But again, rich, single, on your phone, on your device, very self-indulgent. And it's not really a criticism. It's a reality. Bill Sins talked about this. You get rich and you get older. I could point to two people in the media I know who have now reached like late 50s,

early 60s, never married, no kids, no pets. They're odd. They've taken weird turns over the last 10 years. I think you know at least one I'm talking about. I know one of them. I know one of them. I'd argue that guy was odd forever. But regardless, he's. He's gotten a hotter. That's for, yeah. No, that's a really, you know, I think that's a smart point, which is, and I think the other thing is, and now I'm just really wild speculation here. But the other thing is that comes with not just marriage and with marriage and kids is

you have so much less time that you just don't have as much opportunity. to fall down rabbit holes and to get into bullshit, even if you want to. Like, I don't know what you did this Sunday. I'll tell you what I did. Drove three hours to upstate New York to drop my girls off at camp

and then drove three hours back. Now, on the way back, did I stop by a casino? I did because you still find some time to get into some shit. However, that's still, that's eight hours of my day, just gone.

If I don't have them, do I spend those eight hours? I'm like, do I wake up in the morning? I'm like, yeah, let me see what's going on Twitter. And all of a sudden is it four hours of YouTube videos later where all of a sudden I have very interesting opinions I didn't hold previously. Maybe you just are so much.

And when you're, when, you know, for KD, you know, he's made it very clear. And I give him credit for the transparency on it. He wants to, you know, poop. And he clearly works incredibly hard at his crap. But there's only so much basketball you can play in a day. That's right. He's not a weight room guy. So any, so what's the rest of his day?

Playing video games, hanging out, smoking some weed, screwing around on the internet. And it, that all of a sudden, even if you're playing basketball six hours a day, playing basketball six hours a day, sleep in eight, you got another tin to just, you know what I mean? That's right. Whatever. And it is just, it's a very different world when you're busy all the time with things that aren't your own stuff. also kids keep you real let's let's now segue to the patriots and i think gregg popovich has fallen into this and belichick has when you're really successful success warps even the smartest people um i mean to listen to nick sabin complain about the n i l because it'll hurt

parody in the sport is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. He's lost his mind on that, right? Because you start to think empirically, your opinion is just right. Because you're beating people. You're smarter than people. You continue to dominate people. I am better than people. And that's why it's important to have people in your life that push back.

I think Popovich and Belichick have now bought into their system more than they have the reality of their sport, which is in the analysis. NFL, we used to think it was a 50-50 proposition, star quarterback coach, Brady Belichick. It now appears to be about a 70-30 proposition. Like, we know Andy Reid is brilliant. But you're going to lose in the first round and then you get Mahomes and you're dominant. Right. Yeah.

So Belichick now is using a special teams coach, a defensive coordinator, and a cornerbacks coach to coach's offense. And I think like Popovich, success has given him a boss. belief and success does this to a lot of people I've met is that he's so powerful, so wealthy, his legacy is said that nobody will go, Bill, you've lost your mind. In an era with a second year quarterback, in an offensive pivoting league, he's using a defensive coordinator to call plays. It's insane.

So of course it's insane. So here's my question. Is it that my. my question on this is because I think there was a turning point in the Patriot season last year. I think it's very clear. It was that stupid Buffalo Windstorm game. They won it. They won it.

It was Belichick to me doing something very odd that seemed to be against anything I had seen him doing this career. He was always about winning this week. Not, you know, we're on to Cincinnati, not worried about anything else. And it felt like that game he wanted to win. What he really wanted to do was win a certain way as a giant middle finger to everyone who thought he lost his fastball. I'm going to show you that in 2021, I can win a football game without throwing a pass. And they threw three and one of them seemed like Mack Jones audibled into. And the reason I say it was the pivot point is Mac was a different player after that.

They went one and four the rest of the way. Mac had one decent games against the Jaguars. Every other game they lost by double by multiple scores by an average of 15 points. And it seemed like that messed with his confidence. But it seemed like Belichick was trying to, after Brady had won a suitful and all this stuff, remind everyone, I'm the smartest guy out there. Does it feel at all to you like he's doing something similar right here? Like, oh, you think I needed Josh McDaniels?

Well, how about I don't replace him? And how about what would I bring in are two guys who used to work for me. then they left, they failed. They were defense and special teams, and I'm going to win with them. And I don't think it's going to work. I think this is about like proving a point to the world that the part of it that I don't get is he doesn't need to prove it. No one argues about who the greatest coach ever is. With respect to Bill Barselles and Vince Lombardi and Walsh, everyone just says Belichick.

So I don't know what the chip on the shoulder where it comes from, but it seems like he's at this point coming off his nose by his face. Let me, I always think, I like to be able to see around corners, you know, be like six months ahead of a story. Like, this is going to happen. It's fun for me, right? And so there's never been a great movie with a bad ending. There isn't any. It doesn't exist. There is no great novel with a lousy final chapter.

So I've said this. If Andy Reed can sustain his health and coaches for seven to eight more years. and Belichick never gets over the turbulence. The leap clearly pivots the offense and Andy Reid wins two to three Super Bowls with Mahomes. The argument for best football coach ever is going to feel a lot like LeBron and Michael is that Andy Reid got to Super Bowls

multiple quarterbacks. He won in the AFC, he won in the NFC, he won with different owners. Belichick fired. didn't work, got Brady, Brady left, didn't work. Is that as the league moves to offense, if Andy coaches for eight years, he's going to have eight really good years,

just three Super Bowls. That'll give him four. We are going to look at that greatest coach ever argument. Andy is the single coach who's always given Belichick. We'll go to head-to-head meetings. You know he's already got his number. what happens if he goes 4 and 0 the next eight years against him, 3 and 0? Do you think I'm nuts on that?

Well, I think that it's hard to square with the fact that I'm pretty sure you're going to pick the chiefs to miss the playoffs this year. I'm not certain if you've done that yet, but I would, I mean, so I'm not sure, but I don't think you're nuts. Here's what I think. I think Belichick is obviously miles ahead in the race. I think Bill needs to make the race unwinnable for any other current coach one more good playoff run.

I don't think he needs to win a Super Bowl. I think, though, if he were to make the AFC championship game in the next four years, I think that is, that's enough to make it to where he is two laps ahead of the field. Impenetrable. And he does in binatural because I don't think Mac Jones is that good.

I think Mac Jones is fine. I think he is a, I think his ceiling is Ryan Tannahill. I think it's like, hey, can you be that guy? And I think everyone knew that. And, you know, my buddy Kevin Wilde's on the show gets so mad. He's like, why do you pick all these second year quarterbacks to take a leap and not Mac Jones? And it's because the same reason he went 15th in the draft because everyone knew he was the most pro

ready, but also thought he had the smallest room for improvement. and I don't like anything the Patriot of Dome, but set that aside. If he can get to a conference championship game in this conference with Josh Allen and Mahomes and Herbert and Burrow and Lamar and all that, that would be like the ultimate mic drop moment. But the flip side of that is

Belichick coaches four more years and doesn't make the playoffs. Then it's one of those where I don't believe in legacies going backwards, but it certainly hurts because of what Brady's done. And because they, like, if he keeps going and the team, and it seems like the game is passed him by,

that's not going to be great. Again, I'd love to speak it into existence for Andy. And you know, I'm not to count the rings guy. So I don't think Andy, oh, Andy's got to win six rings to be the greatest coach ever. But your point on Andy going to four straight NFC championship games with Donovan McNabb. And then going hosting four straight with Patrick Mahomes.

It's pretty damn impressive. And one other thing, as great as Mahomes is, and you obviously know what great I think he is, it's not like Mahomes' profile coming out of college was Peyton Manning. It's not like people are like, oh, suck for luck. Oh, the chiefs won the luck. He was the third quarterback taking his own, the second and third quarterback taking his own draft.

You know what I mean? He's the 10th pick. And so it's not like when he, he got there. People like, oh, Dynasty now locked in. Nobody thought that. And then except for the people who were practicing with him, we're comparing him to Brett Farb after a month. And so, yeah, that is interesting. I like the take. I do wonder, you said it and you said it kindly. I wonder how much longer Andy's going to coach. You said if his health holds up, like, you know, he's had some tough personal tragedies, obviously. But if he's, I would imagine he's having more fun now than he's

ever had in his career. And unlike Belichick, he hasn't dealt with this coaching staff turnover. That's the big thing that he helps the Chiefs this year. Josh Allen lost Brian Daibler. You know what I mean? The Patriots who I don't think are a contender, though, they lost people. We've talked about the Broncos are going to be this great team. It's a new head coach. We'll see if he's any good. A lot of the Ravens lost their defensive coordinator. No one will hire poor Eric B. Enemy. So the Chiefs just keep their coordinators every year, which that continuity super helpful. All right, John Middilkov, former NFL scout,

host of Three and Out and the Go Low Pod for the volume of Sports Network. So I watched the New York Giants. I wanted to see the first couple of drives. My takeaway is Daniel Jones is just okay. We may get a better version with Brian Daibble, the head coach. The O-line appeared overwhelmed as the Patriots blitzed. It felt like on every down. You know, I was saying this that I don't think fans understand sometimes, John, that owners, more owners than you think metal.

Eric Mangini has told me incredible stories from both the Browns and the Jets. And I think the Maras, because they drafted this kid at six, want to see it through this year. And I just don't see it with Daniel Jones. On the first drive, he had a ball out in the flat, any top 15 quarterback in the league. hits that 15 to 15 times, flies it over his head. You know, he can hit a slant. Well, shit, everybody in the league can hit a slant. Every backup, you know, college guys can hit a slant.

I feel like the Giants at this point, and I never thought I'd say this, I think they're being held back by their ownership. I really do. Well, if you think about it, do you remember that moment when Coughlin was fired, retired, and he left the stage and he didn't shake Mara's hand and he stormed out of the room? Well, ever since that moment, they've got through Pat Schumer, Gettleman, and Joe Judge. It's been an absolute disaster for about four and a half years now. And that team's terrible.

And for as bad as, listen, you and I could be an owner and we'd miss on hiring coaches. That's really hard. But to stick with Dave Gettelman in that situation over that period of time and let him draft. I mean, when he drafted Daniel Jones, and I knew people that do the SEC and go through Duke, he was well-liked. You know, he was an intriguing prospect. It's clear, right? He's big. He can move. He's got a live arm. He's not that accurate in terms of ball over the life.

But take him six overall, even if you're going to take a swing on a project who's got a long way to go, Jordan Love went at the end of the 20s to take the guy six overall. Take a running back in a league that, let's face it, is trending away hard from that at two overall. These guys are inheriting a dumpster fire. They really are. And this GM had a front row seat of one of the great turnarounds we've seen in recent memory. in the bills. I think everyone that knows him in the league that's highly of him. And Brian Dayball, let's face it, before Josh Allen, what he did with Josh Allen, he deserves

a lot of credit is beyond impressive. But his resume before that, you know, as an offensive coordinator, wasn't great. So I think the best thing he could ask for is just bottom out, be terrible and be in the position, which, what looks like to be a fantastic quarterback draft and draft a guy and kind of start over. And maybe Daniel Jones, you know, Alex was, more accurate, but I do think there's some Alex Smith

qualities of just, there's a lot there. He's a high level guy. Maybe someone, maybe get with an Andy Reid, get at a high level organization, just kind of resurrect your career, even if it takes being a backup. Because there are going to be a lot of people that are just going to blame the giants. Right, right. He got his ass kick through Shermer and then the Joe Judge situation. But yeah, he's as of right now on this team.

I mean, they're not set up. I mean, guys dropping balls, Colin, hitting him in their hand. I mean, it's going to be ugly this year in New York. Yeah. You know, I said this about Jimmy Garapolo is we don't need to go on about what he is. But, you know, to me, sort of big game Jimmy. He's often very good in the two-minute drill. He can be really good sometimes on the road.

There's a ceiling, but I never worry about him getting tight. I just think he's a limited player who's an accurate thrower. But I said this. If you brought in Jimmy G to like, let's say the Seahawks or the Giants, he's your best quarterback this year. and even if you draft a quarterback top five, he's better than him next year. And then he becomes the third year as you're not paying your quarterback potentially.

You move him or he's a great mentor. I don't get the reluctance with Jimmy Garoppolo. You've seen him throw at practice over the last two weeks. I don't get it. Yeah. Yeah, he looks just the normal Jimmy. I mean, you walk out to practice. It's a normal bizarre situation.

What team transitions to a new quarterback leaving a guy like Jimmy still around. Because usually that guy creates, you know, if Drew Rosenhouse was his agent or whatever, it would be fireworks, right? Get rid of my guy, release him, let him pick and choose. But from what I've been told is Jimmy does not want the controversy. And there's no one right now really to go.

Because those places like, does he really want to go to Seattle or New York? Probably not. I think he's hoping this Cleveland thing, you know, materializes he goes there, good team, kind of resurrects his value and then get some money this offseason as a free agent. I hear you on that one. The only problem is he's good enough to win you some games. And if I'm Seattle and definitely New York, I want to bottom out.

Okay. You know, it's like in the NBA. I want to have a chance for that number one overall pick. And we don't quite know who it's going to be. Like there's not like Andrew Locke or Trevor Lawrence for sure. I mean, there are several guys. I don't think, you know, Bryce is small, right? CJ's a little bigger, but he's not as mobile.

It'll be interesting. I mean, this college season is going to play out. And one guy will kind of separate you. think at the top. But there are several of them. So if I'm those two teams, I'm not messing with it. And Houston, I know they really like Davis Mills. And, you know, he's drafted in the third round.

We have several guys in the league, right? Your guy Russell Wilson, Dak Prescott, Kirk Cousins. Like, we've seen in recent memory some third, fourth, fifth round picks become very viable starters, definitely third and fourth. And Davis Mills, big, good arm, Stanford, smart. You know, Seattle's got nobody. and obviously the Giants got nobody, but I would head to the cellar if I'm them before I mess with Jimmy.

I hear what you're saying. If I was Jimmy, I would not want any part of either of those places, though. Yeah. Okay, so you've been at Niners practice. You know, I totally understand when fan, fan is short from fanatic, don't want to hear the truth. But I've got four different sources that Trayland struggles with accuracy. You've been at practice. You see it.

He has good days and bad days. I think it's going to work mostly because I have such confidence in the roster, Kyle Shanahan. I've always said the Niners' offense is not quarterback-centric. It's quarterback-friendly. You don't have to be great. But you've watched, Tray Lance. What are your eyes tell you? Yeah, up until two days ago, I mean, it had been a roller coaster inaccurate.

He's about 50% when even his backups, you know, almost 70%. So that's an issue. The one thing, it is. And to win in this league, even with a coach like Kyle Sheenhan that loves running the ball and their defense is going to be fantastic, Jimmy Garapolo is really good on third down, you know, and what's third down usually? It's third and eighth. It's not third and one, right? So you've got to throw either a longer pass, right, an intermediate route.

And I do think the last two days, he's looked really, really good. Now, what he has going for him, like Mahomes several years ago is he's inheriting a really good team. and a really good coach. And unlike even Mahomes, that first year, his defense is going to be fantastic. And offensively, the one thing with practice with his quote-unquote inaccuracy is they're really,

him and Debo are trying to develop down the field. I think they're just trying to see if there's something there. Because you know Debo behind the line of scrimmage, quick screens, hand them the ball. They've really kind of forced that. And that's what training camp is for. The other thing is, Kittle and Bosa are on kind of unique training camp packages.

It's like, we know what these guys are. We need 17 of these not, they're proving nothing. So Kittle's not a huge part of practice. And he's going to be like if he had practice and he's a great practice player, clearly the Niners are like, listen, you're coming in great shape or cool, we'll just ease you in. He's going to add five, six, eight percent to Trey immediately, right? Big target. It's quicker.

Yeah. But ultimately what Kyle, like I worked for Andy Reid. Andy Reid loves throwing the ball. That's why he ultimately needs a throwing quarterback. And him and Mahomes are match made in football heaven. Kyle does not. I mean, his family motto is run the football. And he is going to run the football a lot.

And they have so many running backs and their offensive line can run block. Kittle, use check. I mean, they're one of the only teams that use the fullback. And he's a fantastic player. So they basically have seven offensive linemen. I do think Trey, he'd have to be pretty bad for them to struggle. Colin, I think they're going to be pretty good. unless he just implows, which is always possible. Football's hard, but he's a high-level guy.

He's going to make some mistakes. I know you and me agree on this. Like, Picks, I can live with picks. It's just the, as we talked about with Daniel Jones, are you air mailing someone on third and eight when the guy's open to keep the sticks moving, tie game, fourth quarter? It's plays like that that you're going to have to live with him and proving as the season comes on or goes on. But I do think there's a lot there to be very bullish on as a player. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope.

Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford, and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.