The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Is Shedeur A Franchise QB? Caleb Williams Becoming A STAR, OKC’s Dominance, Lamar Jackson’s Lost Season

Episode Date: December 13, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week. First, he’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1. They start with the red-hot 24-1 Oklahoma City Thunder and why they are positioned to go on a 5+ year run of sustained success due to smart management & analytics rather than money like the Dodgers do in baseball (3:00). They debate whether the goal of parity is achievable and whether it’s good for sports (9:30). They talk about why the “influencer” nature of Shedeur Sanders scared teams away from drafting him and why he’s proven to be much better than GM’s and scouts thought he’d be, but Danny cautions that it’s too soon to label him a franchise quarterback (13:00).  Finally, they  highlight the tremendous progress and improvement Caleb Williams has made in year two. Colin argues that his comp is a “shorter Josh Allen” and Danny counters with a “young Aaron Rodgers” (26:00) Then, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to try and make sense of the lost season for the Ravens and the huge decline in play from Lamar Jackson (33:00), discuss the dominant nature of the LA Rams (38:15) and what to make of JJ McCarthy’s best game of the season. (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to The Knife on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Netflix is basically Santa this year, two NFL games on Christmas Day streaming live. At one Eastern Cowboys Commanders, Dallas is suddenly red hot. play big for the NFC playoff picture. Then at 4.30, you've got the Lions struggling against the Vikings. That's Midwest football playoff stakes.

Two teams battling it out for the number one seed last year. Must win for Detroit. So watching holiday football is a tradition the whole family can get into. Settle in, watch it, the NFL Christmas Day games live on Netflix, starting at 1 p.m. Eastern Time. Watching holiday football is a tradition the whole family can enjoy, open some gifts, grab some food, settle in. And watch NFL live on Netflix, Christmas Day, starting at 1 p.m. Eastern Time. So Danny Parkins is joining me. You know, I'm from first things first. And if our camera angle looks a little weird this week, it's a long story. But you're going to have to deal with the people. That's just technology that's finest. So I had this rant today on my show. And this has been a pretty consistent thing for 30 years in the business, that there is no even. So just own dynasties. They're coming. And they're going to come in different forms. When the Lakers dominated first,

forever, it wasn't that they always paid the most. It's because Jerry Buss was cool and the Laker girls were cool and the weather in the winter and a winter league was great. And so people liked playing there. And then Pat Riley went to the Miami Heat and he sold the same thing. Miami's cool. Miami's got perfect winter weather. So they won on weather, cool, not the most money. Duke basketball won on resume and Mike Shoshchewski. NIL, by the way, now Indiana football's got better financing than most of the country. Is it unfair? There is no even. So Oklahoma City is not only 24 and 1, but analytically the best defensive team ever. They are, I mean, they're blowing people out for two years. Now, the playoffs are different, right? But they're going to

have three first round picks this year and could win the lottery, could have the number one pick. And if you look at their eagulless roster, their coach, their GM, their bench, which is maybe the deepest ever, they could have a five-year run. Their advantage has simply, been, they're smarter, the more efficient. And the new CBA, I would argue, is more punitive to ineffective GMs. It punishes them more. I'll throw one more stat at you. In 1989, the richest people in the world had $1.3 trillion. They now have 17 times that. Okay, seven different presidents. The point is, you can't legislate fair or even. Even socialism doesn't perfectly work. And that when I look at OKC and I look at the Dodgers, at least the Dodgers are an interesting.

dynasty. At least they're doing it. Money is their advantage and deferring payments, but it's watchable. OKC did it do analytics. It's terribly boring. And that Adam Silver wants everybody, he wants parity, and I think it's idealistic. When the truth is you can't stop dynasties in golf, tennis, skiing, women's basketball. It doesn't matter. It's gender-free. and that baseball and the NBA should both should embrace the money aspect. Players want to play in certain cities. People want to live in certain cities. They don't want to live in Kansas City.

They want to live in New York and L.A. and Boston and Chicago. And so when I watch Oklahoma City's dominance, I say, well, at least the Dodgers dynasty. You just don't like that it's money. At least it's captivating. He's just interesting. So I know you don't agree with that. I laid out my, but my take is the NBA of all the pro leagues, everything is going up. NIL has made the rich richer, right?

Everything's going up. Basketball's not because it's got parity. And nobody really truly wants parity, nor is it good for the business model. Well, I don't know if we're dealing with a little bit of causation correlation there. Like, you think that basketball's ratings are not going up because of, of, of, parody. I think ratings were up in Kansas City

for the Royals when they were good. They were down when they were down when they're bad. Generally speaking, my guess is the Oklahoma City Thunder's local ratings are very good. That would be my guess, right? And so do the Thunder have a

fan base that is national or international? Obviously. not. So if a dynasty, because of Sam Presti's genius, happens to take place in Oklahoma City, will that have the appeal for basketball that a dynasty in L.A. and the Dodgers, one of the most famous brands in all of global sports, has for baseball? Of course not. But like, if it was flipped and the analytically brilliant thing that you call boring in basketball happened to be a occurring for the Bulls or the Celtics or the Knicks, my guess is the ratings would be up. And if the thing that the team that like happens to have the best local TV deal in baseball was a small market brand that people didn't care about, I don't think the ratings would be up that way.

Like I think it's, I think it's the Dodgers that is it's captivating because it's the Dodgers and it's boring quote unquote to people because it's Oklahoma City, not necessarily because Dynasty, I agree. with you. Dynasty is generally speaking drive interest. Oh, yeah. The Patriots, the chiefs, the Warriors, the Dodgers. But the Spurs, when they were a dynasty, weren't slaying it in national TV ratings because it was San Antonio. So I don't know that I agree that I think it's like dynasty and brand drives ratings, unless in football where everything rates, right? Yeah.

So I guess. Basketball and baseball. And baseball, I do think it's more brand dependent. Well, I think, I guess my ultimate point is, stop worrying about tanking and stop worrying about dynasties. Players want to play where they want to play. There's too many franchises. There's greed all over sports from the ownership position.

And I think we worry way too much about, you know, tanking. The NBA's become, to me, kind of fear based on this. Like, they want to tell you. it's a player first league. But then they limit where players can go. Whoever drafts them, whatever morbid, boring, bad team drafts them, you are punished for ever wanting to go play where you'd want to live in the winter. You're punished, right?

Like Sacramento, no player wants to live in Sacramento. Most don't want to live in Salt Lake City. But you're punished economically if you're going, like, I want to go live in Miami or I'm only go live in Chicago. You're punished. But if they didn't have those rules, is there any way for Milwaukee and Oklahoma City to win? Yeah, Oklahoma City is doing it now. Well, but, but no, but they had an advantage for Shea to resign. She was a he's a low, he's a low ego, low publicity star. He doesn't care. Like, he's a guy that would be like, yeah, I can make a little bit more money here. it's so swayed. You can make so much more if you stay that what young man who grew up with

average means is going to turn down $200 million. So you actually become a prisoner of where you get drafted. Listen, if we want to have a conversation about like drafts in general not being great for like labor and the workforce, I think that applies to all of the sports, right? Like my my brother-in-law graduates from Purdue computer engineering, and he had offers from different places, right? And he could choose. And he got to choose. And he chose very, he chose well. Like, you know, a kid works at Nvidia and like, it's gone well for him.

But like, could have ended up at Hewitt Packard. Would have been fine, but the dividends wouldn't be as good. But so, yeah, like, he had options. he wasn't drafted to NVIDIA. He chose NVIDIA, right? So I obviously agree that that is anti-capitalistic, on American, all of those things. But I don't think that, I do think that sports would, in general, like we can talk specific Dodgers, specific Thunder, specific any point in time. I do think they, in general, would be less interesting if the Lakers and the Heat won every NBA championship.

the Dodgers and the Yankees won every world series and, you know, on and on down the line. If only the big cities and only the big brands ever won, I do think it would be less interesting. We do like David and Goliath. It is a pretty popular narrative that's built. And like, I also would say, like, Janus's title in Milwaukee as just a basketball fan. And again, I'm watching all of them, right? I'm watching all of them. I would argue that Janus, like not all titles are created equal.

I think we've talked about this, like in terms of how I view them. Like, Katie hates this argument, but I will contend that it is fair and logical. His titles, plural in Golden State, are not as impressive as Janus's singular title in Milwaukee. Because Katie, because the cap spiked in an abnormal way, and he joins a 73 win team that The one before him and one after him. It's like, congratulations. They had an owner who was willing to pay the tax, and it was aesthetically pleasing basketball

and probably the best team in the history of the sport. Very cool. But Janus, 15th overall pick, skinny kid from Greece, goes to Milwaukee, signs three contract extensions with a team that drafts him. They build a new arena because of his popularity, and he has one of the great close-out NBA finals performances in the history of the sport to bring one title to Milwaukee, to me, that is more like

of a legendary title than Katie's titles, plural, in Golden State. And I don't know, I think that's kind of related to what you're talking about. I don't want to live in a sports world where Janus's title doesn't happen. I'm fine with Golden State having the dynasty, but I want Yokic to get his one. I want Janus to get his one. Like, I want both to exist. Certainly, I understood the Tim Tebow fascination because he was winning all the time and there was a Christianity connection. Yeah. The Shadur thing is weird because he came from a small program, didn't win a ton in college. There was no religious connection. And I said he reminds me of La Mello Ball. He's the first quarterback influencer where he's really popular in places I don't go.

I go to TV. He's popular on IG or maybe Snapchat or all this stuff. And I think that Dylan Gabriel early success is very explainable. Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. He was more ready than Shadur. He also played in more of a pro system at Oregon with pro players instead of Colorado. So Dylan Gabriel played so many college games. When he walked into that camp for the Brown, Stefanthke, he's like,

oh, this kid's unbelievable on the whiteboard. he's unbelievable. But over the course of time, Shudur's talents grader, which I've always argued. And over the course of time, Shadur ramped up, got a lot of practices, and everybody went, that's the better guy. So I don't think there was anything other than more experienced college guy from a greater NFL-ready program had a clear advantage to start, but eventually talent wins. But through it all, what we aren't talking about is Shadur does appear to be better than. than everybody in the NFL thought

because he was a fifth round quarterback and Greg Kosell came on my show this week and went, yeah, the film said he was excellent. And lost in all of this is the most important position in the sport. And because people didn't like some vibes, there's a franchise quarterback in Cleveland and he'll be free for the next four years.

To me, that's unbelievable. I have all of the respect in the world for Greg Kosell I watched every throw that he had against Tennessee, and he was great. I thought that he made some really impressive throws. I thought the throw to Injoku for the touchdown. I thought the throw to Fanon for the two-point conversion. I thought he dumped it off some where it felt like he felt pressure and had pretty good just like awareness around him. Like, I thought there was a lot of impressive things in that game against Tennessee.

I still think it's a little soon to say that he's a franchise quarterback for not beating the Titans. Like, it's just like he didn't be. I'm getting a little excited. He didn't beat the worst team in the league. And now you've got him as Cleveland starter for the next four years. I think that's a little premature because the game where he came in off the bench against Baltimore, he looked not like an NFL player. The game against his only road game this year is against the Raiders,

maybe the easiest spot to have a road game other than Tennessee. And he was 11 for 20 for 200 yards and he had a 66 yard touchdown, but 65 of that was yak. It was a dump off swing pass where the Raiders just didn't tackle. And the Niners game, he was not good. And so, like, let's see, because the Bears' defense is not very good, but they lead the league in takeaways. And also the Bears have a stacked roster like Denver does.

Shadur has a bad roster, and he's being very productive with a terrible receiving core, like really bad receiving core. Yes, and a coach who seemingly doesn't like him. So, like, yeah, I, I, should doer has been better than I thought he was going to be. but like can we see how he plays when it's going to be five degrees below zero on the windchill against the number one takeaway defense in the NFL? Like I just, it's a little early for me to say that if Cleveland has a top three pick, they're not taking a quarterback.

And if they- I would take Mendoza over him. And I would take Dante Moore. But then he's not a cheap franchise quarterback for the next four years. Like if they take Mendoza, he doesn't play another game for Cleveland. Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think they're going to get to Mendoza. I think Cleveland's two-tal.

They're going to win another game. I would take Mendoza over it. That's not saying he's not a franchise quarterback. Mendoza, I think, is a pro-bowler very quickly. Yeah. And listen, Shadour, I cannot imagine. Because think about what NFL teams have overlooked. Like, how?

Because 32 teams passed on him at least four times, and some teams like five or six times. And he was the most actually. accurate college quarterback ever. And his father is one of the greatest athletes this country has ever produced. Top five. So, right. So, like, I don't believe it was a conspiracy.

I think there was real red flags there. And I just, I want to, I need to, like, actions, right? The NFL's actions said Shedorf Sanders is not an NFL quarterback. His actions against Tennessee are. saying, no, no, no, no, I absolutely am. So now I think it's actually interesting. I think that prior to this, a lot of people were acting completely foolish, and it was like, they weren't wanting to confirm their, it was confirmation bias of how they felt about him going into the draft. And like, you know, Mel Kiper on draft night, I think shifted, shaped a lot of narratives and fame and people

are tight with Dion. And I think there's a lot of factors at play here. But I will admit, like, now it's interesting. Like, now it is, to me, now it is, all right, show what you can do. And I can't wait for, to explain it. But like, next year, Deshaun Watson's on that roster. No, gross. I agree with you. But the owner of the Browns was at Deshaun Watson's wedding this offseason. I know. And executed the worst trade in NFL history and gave him a contract that apparently made him a pariah among all of his billionaire friends because they were all pissed that he gave him a fully guaranteed deal. I'm thinking he might be a little invested in that working out too. So there's going to be, Shadur will have to be great the rest of this year for him to enter

next year, not in a quarterback competition with a $230 million guaranteed quarterback and another draft pick. Maybe not a first round pick, maybe not a top five pick. But I think he's going to have to be great to not be in a serious quarterback competition next year. Today's show brought to you by our new presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet. I just spent the weekend down in Hollywood, Florida, at an amazing facility. The holidays are here and the sports schedule is packed, tighter than Santa's gift bag. Week 15, football, bowl games, NBA, college hoops, hockey, the whole sports sleigh is loaded. And on Hard Rock Bet, there's always something to unwrap and bet on.

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Gambling in Florida, call 1888. Admit it. In Indiana, if you or somebody you know has a problem, wants help, call 1-800-9 with it. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. NFL Christmas game days almost here. Cowboys? Yeah, the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington commanders at 1 Eastern. Detroit Lions and Minnesota Vikings at 4.30 p.m. Eastern live on Netflix this Christmas. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds.

Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Farrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend Janet.

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I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the eye. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do.

So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with Deanna Maria Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that Ness was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive.

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How do you represent that? They are just fueling a fire that is really catching. You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So if you look at year two, Josh Allen and Caleb Williams, the numbers are literally the same. Oh, I've looked. It might be my screensaver. So Josh Allen.

did get better, and I think Caleb will. Overlooked in all of this is Buffalo has the worst receiving core in the league right now, and Josh is throwing to tight ends, much easier throw. So his completion percentage now is like, whoa, look at Drew Breeze. Look at 6'6 Drew Breeze. No, Josh is still a playmaker. He's probably closer to a 65, 66% if he was throwing the ball down the field,

which, by the way, a Mahomes is to a Rice or Xavier worthy, He's throwing to tight ends because Kincaid, Haas. Yeah, Knox, yeah. Knox. I mean, last week, Gabe Davis, who they brought back, had two catches. That was their go-to. Yeah. So I think lost in Caleb Williams or under-discussed, not lost,

is the fact that he may have made two of the best throws of the season last week. Yeah, the one to Zekees and the one to come out. Yeah. I mean, ridiculous. The one in the end zone is you, it's almost an optical illusion when you watch it in real time. If you watch it again in full speed, it doesn't make sense how he got there. I was watching it. I was watching it with Nick and I was like, tell me if I'm being a prisoner of the moment.

But like, he has the best arm in the NFL. I think he does. Right. Like it's, it doesn't, obviously that doesn't mean you're the best. Throwing it hard is not a bit like, like to throw with velocity and accuracy on the move, Like that is, it's just, it's preposterous. It's, it's, it's the, it's, it's, it's, it's the, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a short list of guys. So, so I guess this is my point.

I think he's a shorter Josh Allen. I think that's his comp. I think he's a six one Josh Allen. Everybody's like, well, what is this? Everybody has comp. And I'm like, I said it today in the herd. I'm like, yes, comp is Josh Allen. Like, there is no ceiling for him.

If I told you, best arm never gets hurt, those very few. interceptions. By the way, probably the best runner right now in the league at quarterback now that Lamar has scaled back. It's either Josh Allen or Caleb. And you think this sounds crazy. I think Caleb is a shorter Josh Allen. I really do. So I still think it's Aaron Rogers. I just, the the shorter Josh Allen is just going to be tough for me because so much of what Josh Allen does is like he's a polar bear. Like he, you know what I mean? He's, he people bounce off him like Ben Rafflesberger. He will truck people. Not that Caleb's not willing to truck people he has. Like he's, Caleb's 6-1, but he's strong. Like he's like 6-1-235. Like he's pretty, he's pretty beefy.

230, whatever it is. But like Rogers was 6-2 and Caleb, maybe this is also just following everything. the guy's said since he's been a pro. Like he's modeled his game after Rogers. Rogers is his favorite player ever. And what to me, one of the greatest quarterback seasons, like on like the short list in NFL history is Rogers's 2011 season

when he had 45 touchdowns and six picks. Because if you look at that season, it was like, it wasn't a Brady surgical. I've just never, throwing a risky play and we're going to have 10, 12, 14 play drives. It was like, he's top three in yards per attempt. He was chucking the ball down the field and making big throws, but also not turning it over. They were like deep ball throws that weren't risky. It was,

it's crazy stuff. And I think that's what Caleb can be. Like when he really dials it in, he wants to use that arm and throw it all over the place. But he doesn't throw picks. And so that is, I still think the absolute ceiling is the downfield aggressive assassin who doesn't turn the ball over. And his mobility and escapability is crazy because Josh Allen can run. But he's not like pure wetting out of. You know, like Caleb Williams looks like, I want Chicago to nickname him the One. He looks like Neo in the Matrix.

He's like dodging bullets. He was sacked 68 times last year. And people said I was a homer for this opinion, but I stand by it. I actually thought he had pretty good pocket presence last year. It's an insane thing to say for a guy who took a, had a top five sacked season in NFL history. Well, Ben Johnson, first thing he did, Jonah Jackson, Drew Dalman, Joe Tooney. It wasn't Caleb. It was the line. Yeah, and it was, and he was trying to make plays.

Like, it wasn't like he was dropping back to pass and getting blindsided and he didn't see it coming. It was like, the team sucks. It's a 10-game losing streak. I have three play callers, my rookie year. Guys are dropping like flies all around me. And I'm trying to make plays. plays and he would get he would get sack now some of it was on him he held the ball too long i think the number that uh i think it was on a monday night football broadcast and it blew my mind he took

like 28 sacks last year where he held the ball for five or more seconds that should be impossible i don't think peyton manning did it in his career um and so like he he's definitely learned and ben jonson has helped him but he is an escape artist back there and sometimes it'll lead to a sack that was 17 yards instead of eight yards. You know, sometimes, but he's really cut down on that this year. The completion percentage is way too low. He doesn't seem to see it quite quick enough. Like the throw he missed to commit was open.

He just, he saw it late and underthrew it. Terrible combination and it was a game ending interception. But like, I am convinced that there is a superstar there and that there is an MVP there. And I think Ben Johnson's going to get there. I think we've seen it before. Mahomes, it was his first year starting, which made it so special, but it was his second year in Andy Reid's system. We've seen the, even if it's third year in the league,

but it's the second year in the system. Second year in the system is when you can have the mastery of it. I think Caleb's going to be a very trendy MVP pick next year. I think he's going to have a monster season now. year with Ben Johnson. And then we'll see what that means for the rest of this year. All right. I want to talk. Pittsburgh, it was a winner gets first place. Pittsburgh 27, Baltimore, 22. I thought Mike Tomlin got a little lucky today because I thought the tied end, Isaiah likely. I thought that was a touchdown. They reversed it. I would have called if I was an official.

I'm still not sure. I mean, Pittsburgh surrendered 420 yards, lost badly time of possession, only had 13 first downs. I thought Aaron played pretty well for a 42-year-old with no run game on the road. D.K. Metcalf and Aaron had a really good day. It's what's interesting. The Steelers still can't run the ball. Two yards of carry.

And it felt like a reprieve. I think this is why you got Aaron Rogers. The defense isn't great. They can't run the ball. I mean, the two guys you went and got, D.K. Metcalfe and Aaron Rogers saved your bacon. today. Again, what did you make of the likely non-touchdown? Yeah, I agree to Tony Romo. That's, what are we doing? I mean, that's, it was a pretty

clear touchdown. But I also thought, I thought the story of the game is Lamar Jackson looks like a shell of himself. No question. I don't know what, you know, his percentage is, but it's closer to 50 than it feels to 70 or 80. I mean, he looks not nearly, now relative to his standard, looks slow, clearly it's just a little off, still makes a couple of, couple plays, but I mean, I think the guy that we've seen become just an all-time great player over, you know, the prime of his career, whatever the version is he's playing at now is limiting them. I mean, you have the one awful pick where typically that's a Lamar play. Lobb it right over a guy when you're scrambling. How many plays is A scrambling around? You go from him to that Caleb

scrambling around. It's like they're playing at different speeds. Yeah. No, I mean, he, Zayflowers, Andrews, Henry. He's. got playmakers. We know the coaching staff is fine. I thought the final drive of the game by him. It was just, there was nothing to it. I kind of feel like with Lamar Jackson, we've gotten to a point where anything over 15 yards, I don't necessarily trust him. I just don't think he's right. I mean, that's my take on this. And I've said it for weeks. Brock Purdy, when I saw him on Monday night, throw two picks. And they were both behind the guy. I'm like, well, he's not. 100% I can tell. I think Lamar's hurt, and he just doesn't want to mention it because he's an athletic guy, and he doesn't want to give the defense who he plays a heads up. I mean, these are not serious.

I mean, neither one of these teams can do anything in the playoffs. I mean, sometimes you win a division, and that's the best you can do. I mean, Mike Tomlin's probably now the way Baltimore is playing, Burrow, you know, lost. I thought Cincinnati was going to win that game. We'll talk about that. I thought Cincinnati had them. and then Joe Burrow, one of the few awful picks of his life. I mean, Lamar was, what, 19 of 35 of the 72 passer rating?

Yeah, one thing, too, is last year, remember, early on in the season, the Ravens defense was terrible, and then they figured something out, and they became a lot better as the season went on. Today, there was a moment. It was 20 to 16, and, you know, the Steelers were kind of back against the wall. You're like, God, this thing's kind of going to fall apart here. and Rogers just a pretty, I don't know, elementary play, drops it off to war and he walks in for a touchdown.

There's no one even around him. So it went from 20 to 16 to boom, 27 to 16. And the way that the Ravens are playing on offense, it's like, I don't know, they're in trouble. And they are just, listen, they dug themselves in a hole early in the season. They don't look right and clearly their quarterback's banged up. And listen, Rogers is taking shots, saying everyone needs to shut up about us. Like, you guys have been losing game after game and looking terrible.

So, I mean, I don't know. I bet against them pretty big this week. I had little to no faith in the Steelers. But I thought today was as much of an indictment in the Ravens. They're just not very good. Like, the Steelers, if they are the four seed playing whoever that they end up drawing, I'd be stunned if they win a playoff game. And I don't think all these stories coming out the last couple days about Tom's contract set up.

Like, the Rooney, I think these things kind of being laid out. Like, there's, you know, we're coming. to the end of the road. Yeah, and I also think Kansas City doesn't feel the same, but Kansas City was getting to Super Bowls. Baltimore wasn't winning playoff games, and they feel less than that. So Baltimore, the previous two years, has blown out more teams than anybody in the sport. The Lions, the previous two years, and the Ravens have kicked a, you know, out of teams four to five times. Now Seattle's the team this year that has beaten six teams by two touchdowns or more. So they're just something that's not right.

And look at both those two teams, right? I mean, they've had their moments. The Lions were the number one seed last year. Two years ago, they had the Niners up 24 to 7 at halftime in the NFC championship. The Ravens have the home field two years ago, lost to the Chiefs. Last year, it's like they should beat the bills in the second round. They lose the game. Kind of feels like they're little moments for both those two teams.

Kind of shut. Rams 45, Arizona 17. Rams had over 500 yards offense and almost 90. yards of play, not competitive. Kuka Nakua was absolutely fantastic. So was Stafford. The other thing about the Rams is they're healthy. They're just dissecting teams.

Arizona's a lost franchise. I mean, you live in the state. I'm not sure. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Do you have any takeaway on that at all? No, I mean, the Cardinals, God, they are. See, some of these jobs, you know, like the Titans, like people are going to

People want to go be the head coach of the Titans. Like the Cardinals, they fire everybody. I get us the NFL and it pays a lot of money. These jobs are terrible. I mean, they are awful. And it just gets back to ownership. And you look at this division now. I mean, is there a better coach division with McVeigh, McDonald, and Kyle Shanahan?

I mean, it's like, it's not even close. It feels like it'd probably be Sean Payton, Andy Reid, and Jim Harbaugh. And that's where if you're the Raiders, like, what do we do? How do we get up to those three guys? And the answer is you don't. I think about this all the time. I was surprised when Sean Payton took the job with Denver because I'm like, oh, my God, they're a mess. There's the Russell Wilson cap.

What the hell is he going to do? And, you know, Sean knew there was some good college quarterbacks coming up. And Sean has a lot of confidence in himself. And also, you know, Andy Reid was getting older and Mahomes was getting expensive. But that division now, I mean, Mike McDonald and Sean McVeigh, Mike McDonald reminds me of the defensive Sean McVeigh. And then Shannon's probably the best scheme coach in the league. So like Arizona is just, I mean, that feels like you can say what you want about Cleveland, but Pittsburgh's wobbly. What's up with Lamar? Cincinnati's cheap. You know, you can bang on

Cleveland, but if Cleveland landed Mendoza or something at quarterback, you'd be like, I think win the division easily. Arizona's trapped. But Denver's a great example, right? Once Walmart took over that franchise. Don't they have like four kids that are in the top 20 of wealth in the world? I mean, the money that they're dealing with is on a different level than what, 95% of NFL owners? Like, what does the Walmart family have in common with Bob Kraft in terms of money? I mean, it's the levels we're talking. They are on a very, very short list as a family. I'm not even talking as an individual. So, I mean, the bidwells are so cheap. Listen, Jonathan Gannon, I don't know if he's good or bad. I mean, it's hard.

to even tell. But you hit your wagon to Kyler Murray. And this gets back to, you know, he was the number one pick, but it was still a little bit of a risk for Ben Johnson to take that job. But it's pretty clear. Ben Johnson probably be good no matter. If Ben Johnson been the Raiders coach, might not be a playoff team, but I guarantee you they're not doing whatever they are, right? He's the real deal. But Vrable knew, like, I'm going back, you better have a quarterback. Because in this, you could put Mike Vrable with Arizona Cardinals, he's probably not making the playoffs very often. So this isn't college. where it's like, oh, I just lose my quarterback to the draft.

I'll just go buy Fernando Mendoza, right? That's not the way it works. And now you hit your wagon to Kyler Murray, and you're in the situation you're in where you got Jacoby Brissette running around there down 30 points. It's like, what are we even doing? And like the Rams game, there's no takeaway. I do think, though, last week they loses the Panthers, who sometimes you do that, you know, the West Coast to East Coast flight.

But the one thing the Panthers can do, they can throw the ball pretty well. I mean, they got a couple wide receivers and they kind of expose their DB. So I do think this was a little bit of a rallying spot of like, hey, man, we got to. Plus, you don't have any margin if you're the Rams, Seattle or the 49. That's right. You probably got to win 13 and 4, probably win to the division. So, you know, a misfield goal here, a screw up here, all of a sudden you're the six-seed playing, I don't know, Green Bay or something. It could get a lot more difficult really quick.

Let's wrap it up with this. Minnesota 31 Washington, nothing. J.J. McCarthy played well. Washington probably has, they've lost eight straight, probably has the worst defense in the league. It may not be particularly close. Geez. Almost every Washington defender on PFF is like near the bottom of their position in the sport. I thought it was J.J. McCarthy's best game. 16 to 23. Three TDs, no picks.

They were very, very good in the red zone. It was a smart game. plan. I think one of the things that really jumps out to me now is Washington had three turnovers and they're just a horrible franchise a year after they shocked the world. Jaden Daniels got banged up again. And I'm sitting there watching him when he's cringing on the field and I'm like, man, but if you go back to his rookie year, remember he got banged up in his rookie year? And I'm sitting there thinking, if you told me, In one year, he'd missed another eight, nine games.

I'd be like, I wouldn't be shocked. There is value in, like, Bo Nix doesn't get hurt. Caleb doesn't get hurt. Drake May got beat up his first year. He blew ten at it. It doesn't miss games. The Jane Daniel thing is fascinating because it was the best rookie season, statistically, in the history of the sport.

And a year later, physically, I have real issues. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the knock on him going back to LSU was the reckless nature in which he played. And you look at Caleb and you look at Bo Nix. Well, they're kind of built physically a little bit different than him. I mean, Caleb's built like a tank. Drake May's big. You look at Jaden Daniels, you know, he looks pretty slender. I try to look his way.

I don't think he weighed into the combine. But he's just not, he's not exactly built like, you know, Lamar's thickened up as he's gotten older. It is really important. And I also think Washington, you know, you get there, you have success out of nowhere. And they went all in on this season. And it has backfired. I mean, if you're a draft nerd, the two crazy things, every time I look up at Atlanta's down 30, I go, the Rams have their first round pick. And for the Texans traded Laramie Tunzel to Washington.

They did it for a third last draft and a second in this upcoming draft. Well, that pick for Washington could be like pick 35. So the Texans all of a sudden can, you know, they haven't had picks because of the Will Anderson trade. All of a sudden you get this great Washington pick. I mean, you look at the Rams and the Texans. That's a big time ammo for those two teams. And they're old. Their quarterbacks banged up a lot.

They have some explosive playmakers. Zach Hertz shattered his leg today. You know, their defense is just atrocious, though. I mean, it's really bad. And this, you know, one story I saw today is Siriani's getting more involved with the offense. Well, it's like, Dan Campbell. Okay, my offensive coordinator's bad. I need to get more involved than what happens.

They look more explosive. So I go, listen, I give Dan credit. He's an offensive guy. Siriana, you're an offensive guy? Monday night, your offense should look better. Dan Quinn's a defensive guy. I just watched him for years help turn Jerry's team into a 12-win team. Remember how good they were on defense with Micah Parsons and Dan Quinn?

How, I get your personnel's bad, but you should be a little bit. You made J.J. McCarthy, who statistically was the worst quarterback since Jamarcus Russell actually looked pretty good today. I mean, it's hard to argue, right? He looked, he looked better than like a lot of these other young quarterbacks throughout the league. So I think if you're Washington, you're going, God, maybe that last year was an, it almost feels a little bit like the Giants, that year when they made the playoffs and they beat Minnesota, and then the next three years were just a train wreck. Could be different because of Jaden Daniels, but if you can't stay on the field, who cares?

Yeah, no, I mean, if you start looking at the teams that consistently make the playoffs, We thought Houston, oh, what happened to Houston? Well, Houston's a good football team now. Like, D'Meco Ryan's defense and the guys upstairs drafting, you know, we always kind of look at Houston like, I don't know, like Jacksonville. We'll say what you want, but I watch Jacksonville today. Like, Jacksonville's got a lot of good players. They've hit on a lot of those draft picks.

Travis Hunter's not even a factor. They've got two backs. They got two ends. So there are these outlier seasons, John, where a team just gets hot. The division's weak. You know, and I, you know, that gets hurt. The Cowboys are bad. The Giants are worse.

They didn't have Jackson Dard. It's, I don't know. I look at Washington and I'm like, they need nine more players. They need so many more players. And this, hey, good for JJ. He needed a game like this. Again, they ran. They passed.

They just, you can just watch football. You watch Seattle's defense. You're like, damn, they're fast. You like Washington. They can't bully. they can't run, they can't cover, they're awful. It's just a, they got very few good players. The Volume.

Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

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Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva. And on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me? Or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turn, but we're sure going to try.

So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Deanna Maria Riva on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of it.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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