The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Malik Willis Slide w/ Middlekauff, Chris Ballard on Wentz to Matt Ryan, Cowboys Draft w/ Matt Mosley

Episode Date: May 7, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, Colin’s top takes (3:00), including which bad franchise had a good draft, the NFL team that had the best overall offseason, if it's Ryan Tannehill’s job to mentor Malik Willis, and the tampering allegations swirling around Biletnikoff winner Jordan Addison potentially heading to USC.  First, 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff (15:00) discusses why the Niners didn't deal Deebo Samuel, and why Malik Willis fell to the 3rd round. Then, Colts GM Chris Ballard (21:00) reveals what it’s like working for outspoken owner Jim Irsay, moving off Carson Wentz, and how the Matt Ryan trade materialized, and the importance of sticking to his draft board. Finally, longtime Cowboys columnist - and host of The Doomsday Podcast - Matt Mosley (32:00) reacts to the blowback Lincoln Riley is getting over Biletnikoff winner Jordan Addison potentially transferring to USC, and if the Cowboys over drafted their 1st round pick OT Tyler Smith. Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer,

Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule. of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliver Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The volume. Colin Coward Podcasts presented by Fandual Sportsbook.

No better place to bet the action than on Fandual Sportsbook during the football season. There's a lot of reasons. It's America's number one sports book, incredibly easy to use, super safe, totally secure, Super fast payouts in as quick as two hours. You're not going to get that anywhere. Also, same game parlay bets, live betting. It's the best.

Hey, if you're new, just download the Fandul Sportsbook app. I did it in 15 seconds. Get started now. Sign up. Please use the promo code Colin so they know we sent you. Please use the promo code Colin, C-O-L-I-N. Fandul-Sport app, sign up. This is Prime Cuts, Best of the Colin Coward podcast.

Great week. The draft is a wrap. Three-and-out host, John Middle. Reacts to the Niners hanging on to Debo Samuel and Malik Willis dropping to the third round. Colts GM Chris Ballard had to navigate Carson Wentz's departure and Maddie Ice entering. He does. Cowboy Insider Matt Mosley. Dallas's draft was weird.

Is Jerry Weird? First, my top takes of the week. In terms of the NFL draft, listen, my feeling has always been after the weekend. I don't really break down which teams had the first. best draft. I thought the Jets' first four picks will all be starters. That's a really good draft. And I thought the Jets drafted really smartly last year, getting a receiver and a running back that both play. So I think Joe Douglas, the Jets GM, is really good. And he's got the franchise on stable ground, at least in the executive suite. But what I do is take your free agent signings of note

and combine it with your top two or three picks. And when I do that, there is no question that. the Denver Broncos are the most improved football team from the Super Bowl until you're watching this podcast. Not just Russell Wilson. So Drew Locke to Russell Wilson feels like an upgrade. They then add Randy Gregory from the Cowboys, a very good pass rusher, and DJ Jones, a wildly underrated run stopper defensive line from San Francisco. They then draft Nick Bonito and Edge. rusher from Oklahoma, wildly athletic. I'm not done. They then take out Vic Fangio, a 70-year-old

defensive coach, and replace him with Nathan Hackett, a young, progressive offensive coach. So they've switched the coach to the right side of the ball. They bring in a Hall of Fame-level quarterback to replace Drew Locke. They already had the receivers and targets in place. They massively upgrade their pass rush and defensive line. So now I've got the three things make it four that are the key to the Rams success. Offensive coach, star quarterback, plenty of weapons, and a great pass rush. Oh, by the way, Rams have Jaylon Ramsey at corner, and the Broncos, Patrick Sertan, may have been one of the top two or three draft picks last year from Bama. He's a great corner for Denver. They are to me in the top three teams that should be Super Bowl favorites.

You look at what won for the Rams, you look at what won for the Buccaneers the year before, and you look at what Denver has. The star quarterback, lots of weapons, really good pass rush, and an offensive-minded coach from Arians, McVeigh, Nathaniel Hackett, from Brady to Stafford to Russell Wilson. So that's what comprises to me the Monday after the draft. Your free agent signings, a coach upgrade or two, and your top two or three draft picks. I thought the Denver Broncos hit it absolutely out of the park over the last couple of months. So Ryan Tannihill was asked about new Titans quarterback, third round draft pick Malik Willis. And he gave one of my favorite answers.

He said, it's not my job to develop him. I'll be a good teammate. If he learns things from me, that's great. Can I defend Ryan Tannahill here? Teams don't want players getting into their personnel department. So teams shouldn't ask players to develop said player. I mean, if teams are like stay away from our personnel choices, okay, then you stay away from me developing my replacement. That's not Ryan Tannahill's job.

If you're an employee, companies are constantly looking for a cheaper version of you in every field. I don't care if it's movies or landscaping. If somebody can put in the hours, get paid less, and do as good or better a job, you'll be replaced. Because most of us don't have contracts. I do. Most people don't. So Ryan Tannale is saying, hey, I'm not going to find my heir apparent. I'm not going to develop my heir apparent.

If he wants to watch me and he wants to glean something from me, that's awesome. I'm not going to bark at him in the quarterback room, but I'm not going to share snaps with him. I will defend any pro athlete who gives that answer. You draft and develop, I'll stay out of it. But I am going to try to win my job and cut the throat of anybody who's out for my gig. There's 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Average salary right now is about $25 million. Yeah, I'm not going to find my replacement.

Sorry. Before I get to Middilkoff, one college football thought, there is a wide receiver for the Pitt Panthers, Jordan Addison, who won the Bulletinikoff Award as the nation's best wide receiver. And he is or has entered the transfer portal. But there is some concern by everybody that's not a USC fan that there was tampering, tampering before he got into the portal. And it does appear he'll go to Texas or USC coin flip. He could also go back to Pittsburgh, but he was spotted at McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.

My guess, he'll be a Trojan. First of all, tampering. Does everybody get that talented people can talk? How did Mel Tucker end up at Michigan State? He was under contract at Colorado. How did Nick Saban end up at Alabama? He was under contract with the dolphins. You do realize that the best assistants,

the best coordinators, and the best coaches, are under contract, including Lincoln Riley, when they are talking to other people. You can squawk about ethics, but you're really, really naive. Fox talked to me when I was at ESPN a year before I left. And as I was under contract at Fox, ESPN has come back to me and asked my interest in returning. It's zero.

I appreciate it. I'm flattered. People talk. NBA players talk all the time before the trading deadline. You can't stop it. Nobody's tracking cell phones. This idea, well, who is contacting? There's coaches.

There's friends. there's former players. Listen, Jordan Addison may choose to go back to Pittsburgh. Why is he interested in USC? Oh, good hell. The entertainment capital of the country, Caleb Williams, Lincoln Riley. I don't know. Why would he be interested?

Pitt is a top 20 program, maybe. USC is historically a top three program. Most players ever drafted in NFL history is USC. Yes, a star wide receiver and star quarterbacks are going to transfer. a lot in the next five to ten years if Lincoln Riley is the head coach. You got to get over this whole tampering thing. How did you get your head coach in college? My guess is he was somewhere else and your school contacted him and he picked up the phone or had his agent negotiate while he was under contract. These are scholarships. They're not binding forever. Coaches leave under contract,

written up by attorneys. That's how you got your football coach. The playoffs are here. You can make every game feel like Game 7 on Fandall's Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Fandul's hooking you up free bets through the playoffs. Free bets. Doesn't matter if you're a new customer or already have an account.

Be sure to check out the app. Exclusive weekly same game parlay promos. Fandul's got so many ways to play. Best of all when you win, you get paid faster than a fast break. If you're new to Fandul, download the Fandul Sportsbook app, sign up with a promo code column. If you already have an account, you're all set to get in on the action.

Either way, you'll get an assist from Fandul when you've had a same game parlay during the playoffs. Fandul's sportsbook, an official partner with the NBA. 21 plus and present in Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Indiana, and Louisiana. Permitted parishes only. Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Tennessee, or West Virginia. First online, Real Money Wager only. refund issued as non-withdrawable site credit that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply.

See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Gambling problem, 1-800 next step or text next step to 5334-2-Arizona, 188-8-9-7-77-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-1-7 or visit CETK, Connecticut. Connecticut, 1-800-G, or visit Fand-Duel. dot com slash RG in Colorado, Indiana, Jersey, and Virginia, 18777-7-0-0-0-0-0-1-1-7. In Louisiana, 1-800-2701-1-7-1-1-7 for confidential

help in Michigan. 1877 H-E-N-Y or text H-OPEE-NY 467-3-6-9 in New York, Tennessee. Redline, 1-800-8-9-N-N-Syset 9-N-N-Gess. Visit 1-800-Gambler. com. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Well, of course I was going to bring in John Middlkoff, host of the Three and Out podcast and the Go Low Golf Pod. He's a former NFL scout based in the Bay Area. So, you know, the Eagles made a trade for A.J. Brown. The Niners didn't on Debo. And I'm just wondering about this. I saw a quote about a week ago where Kyle Shanahan said, I really hope we keep Debo.

And there's this perception that Kyle and John Lynch are close. But I think they'd be less close if Debo Samuel was dealt. And John's track record as the 49er GM, has been a mixed bag. There's some misses and there's some hits. Yeah. How do you view, I mean, I get moving off Debo, but I do think he's a stupendous player. My concern is if you pay Debo and Kittlbig money, they're both injury prone. That could go sideways by week six and then you've, you know, you got bags of money and nobody playing.

What's the relationship do you think between what did you make of the Niners draft and the Lynch Kyle current relationship? Yeah, I mean, I think they made the right move because I think these. Debo's value is pretty unique. I mean, you saw the potential Jets offer sucked. I mean, pick 10 for Debo, and you got to get your second round pick. So it didn't make any sense for the 49ers to make that move. I also think A.J. Brown had more universal value on the market to every team. You know, he's a big outside wide receiver.

I mean, Debo, he's not a gadget player, but he's, you need the right coach to have Debo Samuel. Now, I think where it's the George Kittle, because he plays tight end, doesn't make that much money. His guaranteed contract, I think, was well under $40 million. So they got lucky that one of their star players, that position kind of gets screwed in the market hierarchy of NFL of paying players. But they're about to pay Nick Bosa, who we all see what the edge rushers make. I mean, he's going to get, you know, basically a quarterback contract, right, making $25 million a year with true guarantees. of $10,5, $10 million. So it is a complicated situation.

I do think the money that A.J. Brown got, $57 million guaranteed is kind of team friendly. You know, you see some of these numbers, $75, $80 million. It's not that much. Now, he is 24 deep. Same with Debo. Or I guess Debo is 25, but he's been injured. I do understand the reservations from the 49ers. But how many guys do you know that you can win playoff games with?

And he's one of those guys? Like when you step on a game to play another team in January on the road, he can be the best player. You know that for a fact. The other thing, he's a good guy, like great energy guy. He's not a negative guy at all. He's very positive. I think him, Kyle, and John love Debo Samuel.

They said something. I think after maybe their Thursday night press conference or Friday night press conference is when the season ends, the players just, there's a separation for a long time. And you spend a lot of time on your phone and a lot of things. things get said. They said, we know the guy. You know, we didn't just meet him last year. We've been around him for three years.

We're pretty confident. And this is also why these younger coaches, their relationship with players really matters. You know, I think the old days of Walsh and Parcells and even what Belichick still is, get rid of anyone at any moment. That's not really how Kyle and McVeigh kind of operate because they're actually much closer in age to some of these guys. And through their actions, they feel even younger than 40 years old. So I think it'll be.

all get worked out. Malik Willis drops to the Titans at number 86. Obviously, NFL general managers, who knows if Kenny Pickett goes in the first round, if Pittsburgh and the Panthers and the Steelers don't share facilities. I mean, some of that felt like they'd seen so much of Kenny Pickett that they drafted him. What was the NFL saying about Malik Willis? I mean, what they were saying, I mean, how the UNC kid in the fifth round, I know. I struggle with the word dropped. I mean, did a lot of teams have him viewed as a first round player? He had some first round attributes, huge arm, athletic guy, but as a player, he was not very good. And this notion, though, Josh Allen was a huge, Josh Allen was six, five and a half, ran like Cam Newton, and could throw the ball out of the stadium. I mean, he's a pretty unique case.

Right. So if we're always going to use him as the example, I think a lot of teams aren't comfortable with doing that. I think both him and Desmond Ritter went where they were supposed to go. We act like there's something wrong with going in the third round. I mean, most humans that play this sport of football never sniffed the NFL, let alone get drafted. Going in the third round is still pretty impressive as a quarterback. Right. Russell Wilson went there. We know Brady, Montana. DeKrens got fourth rounder. Yeah. I mean, Kirk Cousins, like, I just think there are only so many picks in the first round, really the first two rounds, right? And a large percentage of teams have quarterbacks that they've recently drafted

or guys under big contracts. They're not going to draft a quarterback. So the percentage of teams that are going to draft a rookie quarterback high is already cut by, what, 50% maybe even higher? So it's a small percent. We act like every team is in the mix. It's just not true. Look at Tennessee.

You know, they could have taken a quarterback, but they easily could have not. I just think they saw value there. They have a starting quarterback. It makes a lot of sense. Same thing with Desmond Ritter. What's his comparison? Kind of like a Marriota type guy, right? Arthur Smith, Reid kind of resurrected Ryan Taneyhill, athletic guy.

Good spot for him. All right, Chris Ballard. He'd been a GM now, what, five years, former director of player ops, personnel, Bears director of pro scouting, a guy I implicitly trust, a lot smarter on me than me on this stuff. And I was thinking about this morning when I was, I knew I was going to interview you. I thought, okay, I got to ask him, you're in a very unique position.

you have an owner who gets the sport like truly understand it Jim's in a class of about two owners I mean Jerry Jones played it but Jim really he really knows the sport and he's brutally outspoken I mean I brought him on my show nine months ago

he'll talk about anything and he's going on he goes on McAfee show the other day I like Pat a lot and he said yeah that Wend's thing was a damn mistake and I'm like well it was 27 TD seven picks 64 63% completion percentage, 3,600 yards.

It's one of the great mistakes in league history because it was pretty good. But when you have an owner that knows the sport will give strong opinions, is that good for you? How do you view that? Because that's rare, the knowledge and the willingness to go and say stuff that other owners won't. It's great for me. I mean, I have a lot of real. respect for Mr. Arsay, just because he's done the job. Like, he's done it at every level from

equipment room, you know, folding socks and all the way up to the GM level. So, and he's seen a lot of football and over the years. And I have great respect for when we talk about football, it's one of the great things about being here. I mean, I'm there for, before I took the job, you know, talking to people had been here before, you know, well-respected people. And they said, Chris, you will not work for a better owner in terms of wanting to win and knowing how to do, knowing the game of football and knowing how to do it the right way. And look, we both are very strong-willed. And that can lead to some very animated discussions between both of us. And that's a good thing. That's one of the things I really love about him is I don't have to, like, I don't, I don't have to sugarcoat anything.

Like, you know, when we have a game on Sunday, he knows what he's looking at. He that, you know, I can't go BS him and, well, this is, no, he's looking at the same thing I'm looking at. So the, and I think the only way is an organization that you can really make progress. And this league's hard. I mean, it is really hard. And it is hard to win. But the. only way you can really make progress is if you are internally focused on yourself and really having hard evaluations that need to happen and not be worried about people's feelings along the way. I mean, look, we screw things up. It happens. And, you know, the willingness of him to be able to listen, see it, and admit, like, hey, man, we just, we got it wrong. Let's move forward.

that's a comforting thing for me as a GM. And I'm naturally, that's a little of my nature anyways, and Lord knows I've had my share of screw-ups. But knowing you have an owner that understands that that happens is a, it's very securing for me. I enjoy it. So let's go back to acquiring Matt Ryan, and I think he's a really good fit. So take me to the conversation, you and Jim Ursay.

So, you know, you're moving off Wentz. Are you driving to work? Are you driving home? Like, was it a long process? Taking into the first conversation you had with Jim. Well, I mean, I give Ms. Orsay a lot of credit. I mean, I'm pretty patient by nature. I mean, I don't really care what's going on outside of our walls and the panic that happened.

So, you know, after we made the trade, you know, Mr. Orsay, Frank and I had talked. And he said, look, just. be patient. Something good's going to happen. Just be patient. Don't panic and just sign a player to sign a player just to feel the need to make everybody happy in the moment. And, you know, when the Deshaun Watson stuff started happening, we just, we had been tracking it and looking at the teams who he could go to and where, you know, the quarterback could be available. And, you know, we got to, we got to call one day from Atlanta and said, hey, look, you know, we're in this. And would you be interested in

Matt Ryan? Because he's going to have, he's one of the places that he said he has interest in going is Indianapolis. And, you know, at that point, we just, we kind of worked through it with Atlanta. And when they didn't get Deshaun, we stayed in contact. I'll never get the night before I saw him, sir, they say, hey, look, this is where we're at. And he just said, Chris, get it done. And I said, good, because I feel the same way. Now, you were blocked. weren't you by the Texans for Deshaun? That was a story. Oh, that was a story.

There's lots of stories, Colin. Half of them are true, half of them or not. So I guess you can block people for a request, right? You can. You have a right to block people? I mean, people call to trade for players all the time, and I tell them no. So how many calls a day do you get from an executive in the league that's not a Colts employee? I mean, I wouldn't say every day, but I talk to, I mean, there's certain GMs around the league that I have tremendous respect for, that there's a trust level there that I do talk to and some of the same ones you know.

Yeah. That I just have great respect and can bounce things off of and know that it won't be on, you know, it won't be in the news the next day. and we're pretty active, you know, even though people don't think we are, we're pretty active around the league. And our pro scouts do a tremendous job talking and making sure their contacts around the league are strong and that we know what's going on. Yeah. Do you ever, like some of this stuff, when I was in the Chargers war room a couple of years ago, I was fascinated by how Telesco ran it. And, I mean, just having his director of scouting people next to him, working the phones. And to me, it was like, this is such a great tight wire job. When you go into draft day, do you do, they do like dress rehearsals.

Like, do you say to your staff, all right, we're doing a dress rehearsal and make it as hard as you can on me in multiple trades? Like, because the way he told me the story is like, listen, we, we kind of, we're going to predict some wild turns on this stuff. Do you go through the same process? Kind of, but we, so we, we do it a little different than some people that we meet. So we watch, like Colin, we watch everybody, like from free agent all the way up to the best picks. We watch them all. And we, it's a three-month process. And so as we're going through it,

we spend a lot of time stacking it the way we see it. And then on draft day, like I always tell our guys like, hey, are you, are we sure in the second round here? Because if, because as this thing peels off,

if that's the last name, that's who we're taking. Like I'm not, we're not doing all this work for the last year. And then all of a sudden on draft day flipping and going, I don't feel good about this guy now. No. We,

And so how we end up, I think we ended up probably more, I think we had 181 guys on the board this year, which was a lot for us. Usually, usually we'll be in the 160 range. And I think at the end of the draft, there was 15 names left. So I thought we identified who needed to be up there that was fits for us and the way we saw it. And then on draft day, like we don't, because we spend so much time stacking it, it peels off. Colin, it's usually pretty easy and simple. Like, there might be, sometimes there might be one name left. This year there happened to be three or four at 42. They were like, okay, that's when we made the trade back to 53. We said, right. We still think we can get, you know, these guys at 53. So we let our board determine. And I think we're all pretty good.

We're all pretty quick thinkers on our feet. Like, I got a really great group from our, from Ed Dodds, my assistant GM, to Kevin, you know, who director, player personnel to Morocco, to our Annalise guys. And they're all, they all communicate to me of what's going on, what's happening in the moment. We get a lot of, because people know we'll trade. They know we'll move down. So we get a lot of calls during the draft because they know we're willing to move.

And all of our guys are really good at it. So let's say you're in the third round, you take Jelani Woods, the tight end. And you're moving down the board. and tight end was a need. You wanted another tight end. But let's say you get to pick 73. And he's not your 73rd best player, but he's darn close. Do you sit here and think, okay, I got two guys ahead of him, but I, you know, I don't need a quarterback and I don't need this.

And then, like, how far will you go if it's like, listen, we have him highly ranked and he's darn close at this draft spot. Do you go down three spots, five, eight? Like, explain that process. I think it depends on, you know, like our analytics guys do. I mean, these guys are good now, Colin. They freaking nail it every year for us. And they could do a good job of projecting where the range these guys are going to go. And if they fit for us from a talent standpoint, where we've got them lined up, like we just line them up. Like, I don't ever worry about where the media and the experts have them lined up. We line them up as we see them. And then we figure out, out, okay, we've got, let's say we got a guy in this third round. And our analytics guys help, okay, you might be able to get this guy 20 picks later, Chris. So then we, okay, is it worth the risk? You know, what are we gaining by moving up? So then when we move there, let's say we trade back in the third 10 picks and we pick up an extra five, but what's the cluster of players look like

in five that we think we're going to get and we have ranked in that area? It was, so I'll give our staff a lot of questions. So like we really liked cross from Maryland who we took. And we ended up moving up and we're giving up a fifth and a third next year to get cross. Colin, that happened. There was a minute left on the clock with Denver. And I just kept telling them, just keep calling.

Somebody will do it. And then finally there's a minute on the clock. And Kevin yelled over, hey, I got Denver. They'll do the deal. And I mean, so then you got to call the league. Both teams got to call the league within a minute and get the kid on the. the phone to make sure he's around. It was, that was probably one of the funnest moments of the weekend for us because we didn't

expect, we didn't think we were going to get him. We'd already taken, you know, three really good players that we liked and then the get cross at the end. That was kind of, that was kind of the cherry on top for us. All right. Co-host of the Doomsday podcast with Ed Werder. He is part of the volume as well. He is a regular contributor.

We have so many things to discuss. He's my friend Matt Mosley. So we'll get to the Cowboys draft in a second. You live in Big 12 country. So you really understand the pulse of that conference. And you understand Sooner fans and Longhorn fans. And you have an encyclopedic knowledge of all things Lubbock, which I value greatly. So I said this in my rant to start this podcast.

I said, there's a reason. Lincoln Riley has trended at least once a week every week since he left because when people are hurt, they lash out. You know who hasn't trended one time since that? Brent Venables. And that, because nobody here gives a shit about Oklahoma football in California. And I think a lot of people think I'm obsessed with Lincoln Riley. I'm obsessed with those who are obsessed.

Californians are a little self-absorbed. We have Mediterranean weather, the fifth biggest economy in the world. We don't really care about anybody else but ourselves. We really don't care about the Big 12 or Oklahoma football. And I know that comes off as obnoxious. But you know, you're from Texas. You guys, you know, you have your own culture. You feel you're very important to.

And so this whole Lincoln Riley thing, why can't sooner fans? My takeaway is they're pissed. They were dumped. They're hurt. and they're lashing out. Isn't that it? Yeah, I do think they are hurt. I also think that Lincoln is, you know, one thing, one misstep he's made.

And I know in your mind, it seems like there are no missteps. But I think the Players Tribune thing was a misstep. It's kind of like in Texas A&M, you know, Jimbo, did you hear? hear him when they when they got the best recruiting class in the country he got real defensive you have to lean into these things yes if if if texas and people in this part of the country where i am i'm in dallas the people in oklahoma and everywhere if they are truly going to think of this guy as the villain he's he sort of needs to embrace that and i think what what he's dealing with part of him wants to embrace it and part of him wants to embrace it and part of him

wants to keep a friendship with Bob Stoops. And he thinks he kind of let people down. And so he's trying to play it both ways. And you can't, you can't win doing that. Like he's got to own it. And if this pit kid, I mean, that became a huge story, not because of the country, think about that. This kid won the Bolitnikov Award.

And I bet two or three weeks ago, most of the country didn't know who this guy was or knew just a little bit about him. And now he's a huge story because his coach thinks Lincoln's been tampering and everything. And Lincoln's got to either own it or or, you know, not. But if he keeps trying to play sort of both sides of this, I think it's going to, it's, it won't be good for him. But I get what I get the reason why everybody out there is excited about him because it's been so long since like it's been a while since USC's just sort of had this. We have what we think is the best coach and everything's.

We're going to run this conference again. And there's a feeling at Oklahoma. That's interesting what you said about Venables. I think they love him. But again, it's. It's Venables get you back to Stoops and get you back to Switzerland and get you back. These programs, you see it a lot with college basketball, they can't function. It's this incestuous relationship.

Like, dude can't hire outside. UNC can't hire outside. And so Oklahoma had this, I mean, Stoops was outside, by the way, but Stoop's became a huge member of the family. So there's a lot going on. And I think Lincoln can win this thing if he just kind of does his own thing. But when he acknowledges and tries to fix it with the Players Tribune stories, I think it takes away from what he could be doing, which is kind of what you're doing is just embracing all this and embracing the hate. I like it. I think it's funny.

Yeah. And you've been at a perch, you've been at a place enough where you can handle it. And you would think Lincoln could. I mean, he's been at a huge blue blood program. But I think there's still some muleshoe, Texas in him that he's having trouble embracing being hated. And I mean, I, you know, you, you, you love it. Oh, I love it. Oh, God, I love it. I can. There is nothing more fun. than annoying trolls. Ignoring or acknowledging them and poking them in the ribs. It's the best part of my business outside of creating new fresh fun content is poking your haters in the ribs. It's the very best thing. I love it. The best thing for you is that some of the people who supposedly your haters still can't

quite get over you and in talking about Baker and some other people and they kind of keep like they they can't learn what kind of lincoln needs to learn which is to you just got to kind of ignore it and move on but they they they can't they can't quite do it because they they still somehow want to maybe either change your mind or change the people who love your show's mind and that's that's hard to do very astute so you know i've i've never felt the Cowboys are poorly run. But this draft was interesting. I always felt they were a little odd and insular.

But they had K. Von Thibodeau as their best player in the draft. That is fine. Jerry showed his draft card. But I thought that move was kind of desperate and weird. And one of the things I've always respected about New York media, L.A. media, and Dallas media and Chicago, Big City Media, you're willing to hammer on local teams and local personalities. Dale Hanson was known for that for years, is that I heard multiple clips from Dallas Media, Matt, hammering that first pick. So take me, take me to the ground floor of this

thing. It looked weird. They were the most penalized offensive line. They drafted the most penalized offensive lineman, it felt like from an outside perspective, they got they got kicked in the butt a little bit by the locals. Yeah, I think that did happen. And what's happened in the local media and it happened to those other places you mentioned too is, and it's a little ridiculous. We now have these armchair scouts and they watch tons of film. And I mean, I think you and I have the same thought. It's like have, you know, CoSell or have somebody sort of do that for you. Let's not try to pretend that we know all this. What's happened, at least in Dallas, maybe some other cities too.

I'm sure it's happening everywhere, is that everybody's become an expert. And interestingly, with this player, suddenly all these people that watch all this film and sort of claim now to be amateur scouts, had this guy with like a third round grade. And what happens is the listeners and everybody sort of buy into that. Oh, my gosh. this guy I listen to you all the time or listen to his podcast or read, had him as a third round grade. The one thing I'll say on the Cowboys' behalf, I mean, it is kind of funny. I'm willing to beat up Jerry for a lot of things. But we sort of like give Belichick, and a lot of it's because of what he's done, we always give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's like, well, yeah, he picked that guy two rounds earlier than everybody thought or he picked this guy way earlier. I mean, the first two picks for the Patriots came about two rounds earlier than everybody thought. But Belichick sort of, but one of those was a Baylor guy, my alma mater. Number 50 in the draft was Taekwon Thornton. But it's fascinating. But when the Cowboys, of course, have conviction about a player. Now, here's what I've gathered, though, from talking to other things that at least a little bit pushback against everybody hammering on his pick. The Cowboys were not alone.

And maybe the Cowboys were not alone in overvaluing this guy. But I didn't sometimes I go around the league and talk to some scouts and everything and they'll immediately like make fun of the Cowboys. This guy's an injury. And it's funny how much these guys know some of these scouts. They'll go. Years ago, Cowboys took a third round pick. It was their first pick of the draft. It was a guy named Brewster from Ball State.

Some guys said he'll get hurt immediately. And I said, well, he never missed a game in college. What do you mean? This guy's off his dangle? He's never missed a game. he'll get hurt immediately. And he went in the weight room and popped a peck. And he never played it down for the Cowboys.

He was their first round pick that year. It's remarkable. The medicals they know and what they figure out. What the Cowboys have decided, and I sort of halfway applaud them for this, they think this is Tyron Smith's replacement in that he could be a great tackle, even though he's not a great replacement at left guard right now, which is what they need. They need somebody to replace Connor Williams.

And they're getting a guy that is heavily penalized like Connor Williams. But their vision of this guy is a longtime left tackle who has rare trait for his size can do things in bending and getting in pass. You know, pass blocking can do like remarkable. things. Like they think that's what he's going to become. So they're basically saying, we'll bite the bullet for a year or two because we think this guy could be a great left tackle. You know, I see something though the last three years. The Jones family has had some personal drama. The cowboy organizations had a couple ugly stories within it. And in that same period, the last two years, they have taken a half a dozen players, Matt, in draft.

with massive red character flags. I've been told this by other teams. This is what would worry me is that are they comfortable with a level of dysfunction because they're living through it in their own business? I'm serious that I know, like I know three or four front offices really, really well in the NFL. And then I have six or seven others I'm reasonably close to that I talk to the GM or at the scouting director. and the overriding theme on the Cowboys' last two to three drafts is, man, they're taking some guys with character stuff. And then I look at the organization and the family and I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of drama all around it.

And I think to myself, are they getting a little too comfortable with it? Is that a fair criticism or have they been doing that for 20 years since you covered him? Yeah, they've been doing it for 20 years. and I don't think it's changed. I think Jerry's always loved the thought of he felt like people took a chance on him and he was at some tough places in life. And he's always loved like if you can get either an injury risk or a character risk for tremendous value, he's all about it.

This is a weird one though because they have a guy that was involved in a drive-by shooting death murder. That's a second round pick from last year. And it's almost like Jerry's just defying everybody. I know you're all looking at me. And now the case against the old miss defensive end that they took, Sam Williams was thrown out. Yes.

But still, red flags, there's a reason he was there. And I don't think, like Randy Gregory may turn. out to be, I mean, he's already shown he was a first round caliber player, but he had all these issues. And they've dealt with all that. And then they end up losing him anyway. Jerry can't help himself. He loves the thought, and maybe it's the old oil and gas part of him. He loves the thought of just outfoxing people. Yeah. He, and it all goes back to Charles Haley. It goes back to taking a, a, a huge. huge locker room issue from San Francisco, and that helped them win, you know, a couple more Super Bowls or maybe three of them. But he took someone else's problem, and that guy was

tremendous for the Cowboys. And as an oil person, you know, an oil and gas guy, like, he just doesn't remember the failures. He only remembers like the successes. And so that's a, that's, I think that's what he always comes back to. Now, the family stuff that you're bringing up is interesting. They've never really shied away from family drama. The only thing different here is this has just gotten a lot more public. And so I don't know. I think it could be a positive that they have like more kids in the room now to make, make picks and help them. At the volume sports, Twitter, Instagram, go to our YouTube page at the volume sports. Subscribe. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green Show.

I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite unhumored me with Robert Smig. and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and

friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking

Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to bowl your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the look back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human