The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - March Madness, 49ers Hit the “Reset” Button, Chargers Win The AFC West?

Episode Date: March 22, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! First he’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out”! They begin with the NFL and what to expect from a 49ers team that finally hit the reset button after making trades and cutting key players as a contract extension for Brock Purdy looms (2:45).  They discuss why the Bears making several moves to address their offensive line shows that the franchise is getting a much needed change of culture under head coach Ben Johnson and are headed in the right direction (10:30).  Finally, they discuss Jim Harbaugh’s strategy of overdrafting offensive lineman, why the Chiefs struggles on the O-line will cause them to take a step back in 2025, and Colin explains why he LOVES the Najee Harris signing by the Chargers (16:15).  Then, Colin’s joined by legendary sportswriter and New York Times best-selling author Ian O’Conner! They start with how Rick Pitino was able to take over at St. John’s and turning the program into one of the best in the country, and why he’s one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all-time (31:00).  They pivot to Duke and why the team was able to retain its status as a top college basketball program under Jon Scheyer after legendary coach Mike Krzyzewski retired, and what makes Scheyer such an effective coach (35:30). Finally, they move to the NBA and discuss why the Knicks were able to build their best team in years but still needing to make moves to get over the hump and win a title, and whether coach Tom Thibodeau can survive an early round playoff exit (39:45). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The volume. All right, it's time for our weekly hour with John Middlkoff, who will eventually take some time off.

He got married last weekend. Okay, let's do some NFL. You know, I had said this last year. I thought the Niners were going to start regressing. I thought they should have started the rebelled last year. They did it this year. They let Debo and Hufunga and Greenlaj, Cheverius Ward go. They have 12 draft picks, but it's a weak draft.

So let's say you hit on six-year draft picks. I thought last year was the first year in the last several. I just didn't think their defense was intimidating. I thought when Bosa was off the field, it was weak. I thought you could kind of manipulate it. I said this. I think Darnold and the Seahawks have a chance to be really interesting. Where are you on the Niners right now?

A lot of draft picks. I mean, they didn't want to let Hufunga and Greenlaw go. Those are excellent, instinctive players. I mean, now you're getting to a point now where you're really crossing your fingers with Christian McCaffrey and Trent Williams. Big time. I think every move in a vacuum is easy to justify. I mean, Greenlaw was coming off a torn Achilles, came back for a half.

He looked like Fred Warner Jr. And then couldn't play the rest of the season. Hufunga, ACL, multiple injuries to it. Like all the moves in a vacuum, oh, let him go. You're not going to pay that much for banks. Trade this backup running back. He was going to make $5 million. On the totality, though, you go, that's losing a lot of guys.

Like, who are going to be your backups? I think they would have somewhat started last year. It's much more difficult, though, when you have a, team coming off being up late in the Super Bowl against the current dynasty. So you go, we are right there. All these guys are championship level players. I think they're big mistake in where they got really rattled. For a long period of time, the Niners, like 15, 20 years ago, they could extend the Patrick

Willis's, the Frank Gore's, the Vernon Davis's, relatively cheap. And they were great at it because Parag Marrata, their money guy, is elite. He's like Howie Roseman, but he's not a GM. He just like runs the York's money and he runs their international soccer team. Well, as the caps exploded, players, I don't want to say it's the NBA, but they do have a lot more juice. When Jamar Chase says, I'm not playing for anything less than $38, $40 million. Like, he's not really bullshit. Like, he's not taking a discount.

The top guys have some juice. But now the middle tier guys, like, they would have laughed at Brandon I, you 10 years ago. And they would have won. But they were kind of in no man's land. And their coach, you know, who has a lot of juice, didn't want to get rid of their best receiver. And he took advantage of them. And that really rattled them because they immediately regretted it. if they could do that all over again, they would have traded them before the draft.

Instead, now they're trying to trade him. He's got an ACL and like he's untradable for anything of value. And they're kind of in a weird spot. But the elephant in the room is the quarterback. And listen, Mike Silver has known the Shanahan family for 30 plus years. And he's been reporting like they are telling everyone, take a deep breath. We're cutting some costs. And we got to kind of recalibrate because I think they saw what the Rams did these last couple years.

Yes, yes. Now the difference is, and look at what the bills did last year. I mean, the bills got rid of like half their big names. Well, Josh Allen's one of the greatest talents I've ever seen. And Matt Stafford, while older, was right there with, would be considered Josh Allen 10 years ago. He just played for a shitty franchise. Like, that's not Brock Purdy and we all know that. Look at the NFC, Colin.

The two best quarterbacks, you'd say, you know, I would say win-wise, statistically would be Jalen and Jared Gough are on loaded rosters offensively. Like, we would say, you put either one of those guys on like the Jags or a bad team. to be problems. Purdy's the same thing. When he's on a good team, he's proven. He can be a really good player. But like if you're cutting costs and depending on some randos, it's just, it's a pretty scary. I do think they are going to low ball Brock Purdy and they're going to make this more difficult because they before it was just like, hey, Trent, what do you want? Which I don't have a problem with doing that to Trent. Yeah. But the two receivers, it's like you're not Jamar Chase and your team doesn't play like that. It doesn't make any sense. Like I get the Cowboys.

They throw it to C.D. Lamb every other play. Yeah. Brennan and I, you had a career year 75, but the end of the day they do have a big time coach at a bad year, but he's proven to be really good. And still a culture. They get Robert Sala back. I wouldn't count him out yet, but it's going to be a lot of new names, Colin. And they're going to be very dependent on these high. They have the 11th pick. Like, you need a Michael Parsons.

You need to, you know, look at the Eagles and the Cowboys, when the Cowboys got Micah or the Eagles got Devante Smith, you're going to have to nail this. Well, and also, there are certain positions in football running. back. I think wide receiver. Some say cornerback where you can come in and make an impact pretty quickly. It's very instinctive. But where the Niners are drafting, offensive line, maybe another tight end, you know, a play calling linebacker, a crucial safety in their defense. Those are hard positions to go college and pro. I mean, if you look at very few, tight ends come into this league. Brock Bowers is a total outlier. Very good tight ends have struggled because the blocking assignments now are so so difficult compared to college. So the Niners are

asking players from college in the 12 draft picks to come into positions, replace excellent, instinctive, smart veteran players. Forget just making tackles. I mean, Greenlaw is, I mean, he is, he and Warner are anchors and communicators. And I think those kind of positions to replace. I have no problem. You know, it'd be one thing if they're replacing, you know, one corner, one running back. You get to the offensive line in Kyle Shanahan's system. You're lost until Thanksgiving. That's a tough rebuild. Oh, for sure. Same with wide receivers. I mean, same with, listen, even if they draft a defensive line with the 11th pick, Khalil Mack, who's one of the better players of his generation, I think, had four and a half

sacks his rookie year. Jared Verst last year, who came on toward the end, wasn't a dominant, dominant force all season long. I covered Warren Sapp in Tampa. It wasn't until the end of his first year that he made an impact. Year two, he was fantastic. But in this league, there are guys that can make impacts. But I don't see the Niners. Their schedule sucks.

Their schedule is bad. They have a last place schedule. And they get to draft really high in every round. I think one of the divisions they play is the AFC South. I mean, I would say even before this mass action, Exodus. I still think 10 wins is very, very, you know, look at what the Rams have done these last couple years. I think sometimes when you are, as they say, in most, you know, world industries onboarding players, I think McVeigh uses that too. It takes a little time and then you kind of catch fire.

I mean, I think they, what were they one in four last year and two and three and six the year before? Now, you don't want to make a living. You do that 10 times. A lot of times you're going to end up with seven or eight wins. But you start. a little slow and then you peak. One thing is very, very key for the 49ers. I'd say two guys. Trent Williams, got to be on the field. And if Christian McCaffrey is just healthy, which, who knows, I mean, he had multiple Achilles, he tore his knee. But he is a major, major wildcard in the NFL, going back to the Panther days. When he's on the field, he's one of the best players in the league. When he's off, especially with Kyle, he kind of derails their operation.

So I thought the team, you can tell who has the power. in most organizations. McVeigh runs the Rams. I think Shanahan until recently had power on the draft. Andy Reid doesn't want it necessarily. Belichick did. Sean Payton does in Denver. You can tell the moves when coaches are making. Chicago clearly signaled that Ben Johnson's running the show. For him to replace the entire Interior O line was telling Ryan Poles, you guys, your picks stink. And I thought, frankly, for the Chicago Bears, who I've been saying this for so many years, they're like, they're just a defensive culture. For a guy to come in and spend money on guards and centers, I thought it was a real moment in the history of the Chicago Bears. I was like, wow, this feel, I mean, how many years of the Steelers been ham and egging it on their offensive line?

Tomlin runs the show. I, for the first time that I can remember, I really like the direction where the bears are going. Well, I think sometimes when you get like the Wiz kid, the great offensive coordinator, they just want to score points. And they're thinking quarterback and wide receiver. Ben Johnson's pretty lucky that his welcome to start them in the NFL started with the trenches. I mean, let's face it. The lines really separated themselves with a dominant offensive line. So they go and trade for a guy.

It's crazy. You and I talk about these young quarterback. by that second year Thanksgiving. It's like, you're on the clock. Like, your career is in trouble. It's like that now with free agency. The Rams side, Joe to Jackson, last year, three years, $51 million, less than a year later,

it's like traded. I mean, these teams now the money and the cash bonuses, see you like that, not in a million years, I would say up till what, seven, eight years ago would have ever happened because no owner, it's like, he's a good player. And it's like, yeah, not a great fit, see you later. So they get a guy that they know. The Falcon Center is good.

and you see Andy Reid's quotes on Tunis. He's like he's one of the toughest guys I've ever. We don't want to trade this guy. We just, there's money involved and we can't afford to keep him. Yeah, so they get a plug and play player. He had the best year of his career arguably

because he went to left tackle and was excellent. To me, he's like his generation's Logan Mankins. I mean, just a plug-in play guy who could play multiple positions as a stud. The other thing is when you have a smaller quarterback, you know, non-Paeton Manning, Tom Brady, the Flacko, that generation, all those guys were huge. You know, Carson Palmer. Caleb, this generation is a little smaller.

Well, Sean Payton dealt with one in that generation, and they always invested in centers and guards. Because the pressure up the middle, it rattles them. He can't see where Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, historically, they had some pretty random guys on some seasons when they had good teams playing center and guard. They get away with it. Smaller quarterbacks cannot.

It hurts pretty sometimes. When they get in past situations and the guard and center gets smoked, he's swimming. He can handle the outside pressure because he can move around. same with Caleb he can move but up the middle you are screwed so they they could have i know they've invested draft picks and some tackles but we'll see how good those guys turn out to be but they went all in on the guard and center position because i think with a smaller quarterback it's really really important to just neutralize think how many teams also have good interior pass rush now so

yeah it was hard to i mean that was a no-brainer move by the bears and right paul's pretty lucky that this the way this all he kept his job and he's still here and he gets to be a part of this. Yeah, I mean, a couple years ago, he whiffed on Veles Jones, and I was like, oh, dude, you could have called me. And then the Chase Claypool. I mean, Rome was a pretty, looking back, he should have taken an offensive line. Yeah, but Veles Jones miss, Chase Claypool miss, Roma Dunzee, not as good as we thought. You know, so again, I think you and I think you and I think the bears are heading the right direction. You just pointed out something, and I've been on this for a few years, that I think,

there's a duality to all the owners being billionaires and some being 10, 15, 20 billionaires, is that number one, the downside is they're more willing to just fire people quickly. They're more impulsive than they've ever been. When they were all worth $600 million, you're not just writing a $17 to $25 million check to blow out of staff. You're just not doing it. Now these guys will just blow out a $70 million staff. Who does that hurt? It hurts a young quarterback who has to have another staff.

So, I mean, you know, Caleb Williams, even though he upgrades staffs, it's a brand new system. So that's the downside, though, is when you make a mistake with personnel, like Rams and Jonah Jackson, where it just didn't feel great, you can just move off it. And so, you know, this, you know, you can never move off NBA contracts or baseball contracts. They're so guaranteed. in the NFL now, if you make a mistake, guys just write checks and go, all right. Big down. I mean, for the bears to get Drew Dalman and Joe Tunney, Jesus, you have your, you may not be Philadelphia or Detroit, but that's a top three interior old line in the league.

Well, let's you even use, I mean, the craziest example currently is this cousin's example. Now, I know Arthur Blank is probably, I don't know where he ranks, but he's not near the bottom when it comes to wealth. they're like, well, you're not going to shove us around. We're going to pay you $10 million for next year. Obviously, he's not going to be the team next year. And we'll eat it until we figure this out. But you are going to capitulate and you're going to give us a trade eventually before the season starts. That never would happen.

I thought it was like, no, no human alive is going to give him $10 million guaranteed for next year. Cousin's going to win this. They will cut him. I thought he'd be cut, you know, Wednesday, Thursday. It's like, no, they just picked it up and he's still there. And we'll just have a staring contest. That never would have happened with. without the influx of cash.

I thought this one, some of these deals are, I mean, Aaron Banks, the Niners left guard, got, I mean, so much money. Milton Williams, who is obviously a really talented player, has never played more than 50% of the snaps for the Eagles, got $26 million a year. I was watching a clip of Jim Harbaugh, and I had just had this discussion with Steve Kime about a week ago, two weeks ago. And I said, if I was ever a GM, because he always jokes, he said, you're not a talk show host, you want to be a GM. And I'm like, you know, I like my job, but I would love to be a GM. You know, if I would have put 30 years into that instead of what I'm doing, who knows? You know, you don't know. But I told him, I said, I would overdraft the offensive line. And Harbaugh said this. And this is what Stephen I said. Jim put it more smartly. He said, said, there's only one unit in a football field that doesn't rely on any other unit,

yet every other unit relies on it. And he said it's offensive line. It makes your quarterback better. Your running backs better. Your tight end doesn't have to block as vigorously. Your wide receivers have more time to get downfield. It keeps your defense off the field if you have a great offensive line. And it was one of those things where when you go back to drafting Joe Alt over a wide receiver,

the Bears went wide receiver. and then this year had to spend a fortune on their offensive line. Instead of the bears probably should have gone O line instead of going with Roba Dunzee. But it is interesting that the more the NFL changes and becomes an offensive league, we pay so much attention to quarterbacks. But I, and I made this pick the other day, I think the chiefs are going to struggle and I don't think they're going to win their division. I don't think in this draft class there's a starting left tackle good enough in their division to block Max Crosby or Khalil Mack or the kid number 15 Oklahoma.

Bonito. And it's really interesting. I think, I mean, right now, the three or four teams I like in the league all have great old lines. All of them. Philadelphia, Detroit. I thought the Rams finally got their act together offensive line. I think Buffalo's last year was better than people thought. I thought Denver's was better than people thought.

I think Kansas City, I think we've just baked it in. John, they're not going 10 and 1 in close games next year. Yeah, I would agree there. But their offensive line was putre this year on the edges. And they were able to, I mean, they were basically a 16-1 team. They threw the last game of the season. So when it comes to coaching, when it comes to the quarterback play, and most importantly, their defense is going to be good.

So part of the reason they were winning all these games because they could win 19 to 17. They weren't allowing many points. That is not going to change. Now, the charges in the Broncos, you and I have been saying this, anyone with common sense has been saying this, the worst their teams were going to be was last season.

They're both going to be better. So if either Hufunga or Greenlaw play, that defense is going to be improved. And Denver's defense was awesome. When I saw D.K. Mechap asked for a trade. A lot of people that covered the NFL were like, the Chargers. It's like, guys, do you think that Jim Harbaugh is going to trade a top, whatever, 50 pick, and pay a third contract to this kind of out there wide receiver, though very talented, kind of the poor man's modern day Terrell Owens type? It's different, but I mean, I think physically they have some to DK Metcalf.

Are you guys nuts? And what does he do? He goes signs, Mackay Bechtin. And he's got a huge, I see yesterday, he's got a huge smile on his face. Like, have you guys not followed Jim Harbaugh's career? Rearsen, Stanford, they might draft a wide receiver this year in the third round. I would expect tight end, D-Linman, running back. Like, it's Najee Harris.

When I was living in the Bay Area, Naji was, his senior year was one of the biggest recruits in the country. I think he might have been a number one recruit. He was number one. And it was committed to go to Alabama, but Jim was recruiting him very hard. And I saw a clip that Jim at an Antioch, I think he went to the homecoming game. He announced their king and queen. And so, like, that's who he's, listen, I'm not the biggest nausey star running back first round guy,

but he is a solid, runs downhill, physical guy. Like, that's how Jim wants to play. Jim wants to play a lot like this version of the Chiefs. And clearly Denver, I think Sean would like to be a little more explosive down the field. But like that, that division is going to be really physical. And same thing with the, I mean, we know how Pete Carroll, why did he butt heads with Russell Wilson? Russell wanted to throw it 50 times a game. Pete wanted to throw it about 20 in play D and run the ball.

So I think this defense is going to or this division is going to look a lot like each other. Now, you know, if Rishie Rice is healthy, Xavier Worthy came on. I do think the Chief's offense could get more explosive. And I would also guess that they draft a running back. Yes. I think all these teams in this division could draft running backs. Yes. And if two of the four of them become stars, whichever ones those guys go to, like the next Jamir Gibbs or whoever, Nick Chubb, you know, you name it, those second round running backs,

hit for one of these teams could be the difference. If all of a sudden you tell me Denver has a version of Nick Chubb or, you know, Alvin Kamara on their squad, I'd be like, well, why couldn't they win 12 or 13 games? Same thing with the Chargers. And maybe this is the year the Chiefs win two years ago when they won the Super Bowl, I think they won 11 games. So the difference between 11 and 15 is like a couple of missed field goals and a couple fumbles go your way. Yeah. The, yeah, it's, I thought, I thought Devonte Adams was obviously a great. great move for the Rams, but I thought Naji Harris, there were a couple of moves I loved

offensively. I think Debo Samuel to Cliff Kingsbury and Jaden is a sensational move for them at this point. He'll get tons of looks. And by the way, it will give Cliff another 12 offensive plays because Debo is such a unique player. And then I also thought, I thought, I thought, I thought Najee Harris. I'm like, remember a couple years ago when Kevin Donson wasn't going to start for the Steelers, McVeigh grabs him, and he literally is the highest rated guard in the league. Najee Harris with that Pittsburgh O line, everybody's like, almost a semi-bust. Watch him with hardball. Watch him be really effective with hardball. I think of this all the time is, I remember a GM telling this years ago. He said, I used to love drafting Georgia guys when Mark Rick was there.

Great recruiter didn't squeeze all the juice out of the player. Like you got, you know, these guys had a lot of upside. Nick Saban squeezes every ounce of talent out of guys. And one of the things I look at, John, when these offensive coaches like McVeigh will go and find wide receivers, he looked at Devonte and he thought, I had Jet Staff last year was like third tier. He's like, Devante is going to make 80 catches for us. So I thought, yeah, I mean, so I do think when you see these offensive coaches, they find some of these defensive cultures and they find players and go, get me that. Well, I think, you look at the Eagles last year, Mackay Beckton.

This year they trade for that former first round pick from the Texans. Boom. Now, listen, you're not going to hit on them all, but the power of having good coordinators, and now so many of the offensive ones are also the head coach, but you see it a lot when the star offensive line coach or the star defensive line coach, it's like buying a cheap stock and the guy a year later turns into a $12 million player you can't afford, but you bought low. Like you profited from it.

And I think the best teams always have that ability. I also think the Washington commanders with Debo and with Tunzel, Tunzel not as much because he would get paid no matter what. You got Debo. He's in a contract year. If you ever want to make a even a two year, $40 million contract again, you got to slim down and give us all you got. And I think sometimes getting those guys motivated is a really big deal for these. You know, it used to be a guy going into their third contract, probably

be like 34 years old. These guys are a little younger now. You know, they're 29, 30 years old sometimes on their third, you know, DK Metcalf. Yeah. They're not as old as, you know, in previous generation. So sometimes these teams now with their cap space, these free agent classes, after like the first 10 names, most of them, like the average fans, like, who's that guy? You can take advantage. of it with traits. Overpriced guys and other teams. Adam Peters really did that with Tunzel and Debo Samuel. A ton of cap space,

but I'm not going to buy all these players and pay premiums on guys that aren't quite worth it. Like the Packers. Listen, I understand Aaron Banks has been a starter for the 49ers, but to give him that much money to be your left guard, felt a little desperate to me as guard where it's just, we have seen some questionable guard contracts in recent memory,

and I understand offensive linemen more of a plug-in-play. It's a lot of money to pay a guy. You might be able to find just a plug-in play. started in like a third round. And the Packers historically have always been able to do it. Who's scoring big in the NBA this season? You are. All the new ways to get in on the action at Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA. Slamms, dishing the ball, cleaning the glass, get behind your favorite players, prop bets you can make on Draft Kings. It's fun. The home of NBA player props. If you're ready to place your first bet, make it really simple.

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Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs.

And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. DKNG.com.co. Slash audio. Well, he's one of my favorite people in the media. He has New York Times bestselling books on Aaron Rogers, Coach K, Derek Jeehan,

and Bill Belichick. Pretty impressive resume. He's got a new one coming out with Dan Hurley, which is fascinating because Hurley and Yukon have had a spirited and disappointing season. and the book is coming out in September called Never Stop, Life Leadership and What It Takes to be Great, co-written with Dan Hurley. I want to get to that in a second. I want to start with Rick Petino and St. John's. So for the uninitiated, St. John's is in Queens, one of the five boroughs. Used to be in Brooklyn, actually, a long time ago. Catholic University, between the airports,

is how I remember being it described to me one time. And it was in the Big East, which is the greatest of basketball conference, the most personality-filled basketball conference, conference at its best in the history between players and coaches. And so Louis Carnaceca ages, leaves, it's not the same university. Many people tried. Then one of the great coaches of all time, Rick Bettino and New Yorker gets the job. So let's start with that. I couldn't tell you the last time Duke and St. John's both had a chance to win the title in the same tournament. So it's a fascinating tournament. But when Rick took the job, I mean, I said this the other day, You know, his moral compass has sometimes flipped around, but in terms of basketball, IQ, EQ, and program building, he is, he is Parcells plus Urban Meyer.

You know, he is just one of these guys that can do a Jim Harbaugh. What is the secret sauce? You know, Rick. What is his secret sauce? What's different between Rick and so many other coaches that go to these programs, I own a St. John's, and just make it work quickly? Great question. And I think first of all, I think the two best coaches in the history of the sport are John Wooden and Mike Shosheski. So if you look at their bodies of work, I think they're the top two. But I also believe Rick Petino is just as good as they were. I think that he's as good as any college basketball coach ever. And it's just the ferocity with which he gets his kids to play defense. And it really works at St. John's. And of course, it worked at Louisville. It worked at Kentucky. into Providence, but he's such a New Yorker, and that is such a New York style of play on the playgrounds that it really translates. And this has been a very likable team. The city has fallen

in love with St. John's. Now, when I started my career, St. Johns would take the back page of the tabloids away from the Knicks. And so it's been a long time since that was possible. Now, of course, the tabloids aren't what they used to be in New York or newspapers anywhere, of course. but St. Johns is now a team that the city has embraced, and Patino, that style of play. He did it even with the mix, pressing, defense, attention to detail, just playing with that ferocity. And, yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen a coach get his kids consistently to play any harder than Rick Petino's teams everywhere he's been, including in the NBA outside of the Celtics. But he's an amazing, when it comes to X's and O's and Motiv's and Motiv's. motivation and recruiting, he's an amazing coach. There's no question about it.

So it is very unique. I have them making the final four. They don't shoot threes particularly well, but either does half, 90% of the field. I mean, you see San Diego's rare. BYU is rare. St. Johns can't shoot threes. Houston's not great at it. Michigan State can't. I mean, I watched Michigan, Michigan State play a couple of weeks ago, and Michigan State ends up scoring in the 80s. I don't know how, but they get there. So I don't really use that. is a deficit. I think St. John's can muscle and defend and coach its way to the final four. But going back to

my initial point, you know Duke basketball because of the book on Coach K, which I strongly recommend if you've never read it. It is, I think it's, in my opinion, I think it's your best book. Thank you. And I've read all of them. I loved it. Duke assistant coach, and he just doesn't have the gravitas or the weight to hold this massive

brand afloat. But Duke this year feels like, to me, the odds on favorite. Like if they want, it's the only team you wouldn't even ask how. You'd go, okay, Cooper Flagg. Are you surprised by Coach Kay leaves, and yet Duke remains vibrant? No, I'm not surprised, Colin, I think Duke, Duke does recruit itself to some degree, but John Shire's recruiting has been unbelievable since Coach K left. And you start with that, of course, that's the lifeblood of college basketball in all college sports. And he's been terrific at that. And he's just a really good coach, too, in terms of X's and O's. But if you look at that team right now, it's almost a perfect college basketball team. They've got the big man, who's 7-2 with an incredible wingspan. He's a top 10, top 15 NBA pick.

You've got a forward who's a top 15. On one side, on the other side, you've got one of the best freshman we've ever seen in college basketball, who's the number one pick, assuming he's healthy and it looks like he's going to play. And in the back court, you've got two guys who are six, five at guard. Now, maybe the one question mark you have against a team that has smaller, quicker guards, maybe that's a little bit of an issue,

but size, skill, the coaching, the pedigree, everything is in place for Duke to win the national championship. I actually don't think they will, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they do because they probably do have the best team. I actually think Houston is going to win the national title. And it's a bit of a strange reason. I just think Kelvin Samson has been such a good coach for so long

that seems to me that he's going to get one before he be tires. And you look at really, I know that's kind of a funny reason, but if you look at the way they defend, they have guards, and I just think at some point he's going to pick one off. John Shire is a very worthy coach of winning a national title. If you recall from my book, Coach K wanted him to be the coach. The university actually wanted Tommy Amaker to be the next head coach. But Coach Kay sort of got his way on that one.

And frankly, you cannot argue with the results. John Shire has been tremendous. Yeah, for the uninitiated, again, for the people that don't follow Duke closely or college basketball, what was, boy, that must have been tough. I remember reading about it in your book. You have Amaker and Shire, and here comes Coach K. Eventually, you know, he's going to make a choice. What is Shire's strength?

What is this foundational piece that made him the choice and why you think Coach K eventually leaned to him? Because he was in his system. It had been a long time since Amaker had been in his system at Duke, of course, he was a very important player in the development of that championship program under Coach K and has done a good job in the Ivy League. But Shire was there. Shire was a great player. He was going to play of the NBA. He was a serious eye injury early in what would have been, I think, a pretty good NBA career. But the way he relates to kids,

I've had just a couple of conversations with him, but have been around enough people who are in his world consistently. And he's just a very relatable guy. And so I think the fact that he was a really, really good player there, and the fact that he is, he's got the right personality to connect with people. He obviously has the X and O background from Coach K. And you put it all together. And again, it is a campus that does recruit itself to some degree and a program that does recruit itself to some degree.

It's a pretty powerful combination. So I said this the other day on the show. You know, obviously I was in the Northeast for 10 and a half years. years. But one of the things I observed when I was in the city a lot or near it in Connecticut is that, you know, there's a lot of Yankee and Met fans and a lot of giant and jet fans. But everybody in New York likes the Knicks. It's just every single friend I had in New York, and many of them, more than the Yankees are giants, were Nick fans first. And again, I'm old enough to remember the Walt Frazier, Bill Bradley, Earl Monroe. I go back to the 70s when nobody won,

you know, the Lakers won a title, the Warriors did, the Washington, bullets did the Sonics, the Blazers, the Knicks. And then there were the Pat Riley iterations. But I always said, God, if Dolan could get out of the way, this city loves its team so much. And I think when the sphere got built for two years, Dolan removed himself from the facility. I mean, literally physically, was in Vegas so often, and it allowed the Knicks to really grow this really strong basketball group. And I think they've made very patient, very sharp moves. I don't think Cat is the future, but I think he was the right move at the right time. But there was a moment between Tibbs and Josh Hart the other day, and Mikhail Bridges, it was public that he had gone to Tibbs. Hey, we need to

play the starters less. You know, young players don't get a lot of work and minutes under Tibbs. As great as the brief journey has been with Tom, it does feel like, does it not, Ian, to get to the next level, you need two moves. Carl Anthony Towns probably gets replaced with a better defensive big or just like a KD, a greater player. And Tibbs may not be the answer. Or is that me 3,000 miles away guessing? No, I think it's possible that's the case. I do think Tibbs is good enough to win a championship as a head coach. They lose in the second round again this year. I don't think he'll get replaced because I think he'll lose to a better team. I think the Celtics are better. And surprisingly enough, I did not think the Cavs would be

better, but they are. They just are. So if they lose in the second round to say the Celtics, do you fire the guy off that? You're losing to a better team. The Celtics have better players. The Knicks have improved their roster, certainly, and I didn't think Jalen Brunson. I wasn't sure if he could be the second best player on a championship team when they acquired him. Now, I do think he could be one of the top two, if not the best player on a championship team. He's an incredible player, and I think a lot of people in New York were surprised by that. I think where the Knicks are right now is it's kind of funny because Jets fans have been complaining and complaining about Woody Johnson, the owner, for a long time.

40 Johnson hires, and we'll find out if he did, the right general manager in Moji and the right head coach and Aaron Glenn, he's going to go away and Jets fans will never talk about him. Nick's fans are not talking about Jim Dullin and they have it now for a number of years because he hired the right general manager and that was a gamble. Leon Rose had never done this job. He was a very good agent. He had never been a general manager. And early on, I wasn't so sure, but turns out he knows what he's doing. And Tibbs, of course, everybody knew he knew what he was. doing. He's proven that he could be a very valuable piece of a coaching staff that won a championship in Boston under Doc Rivers. And so is he, it's almost like, it's almost like, Buck Showalter did all the dirty work on the Yankees in the mid-90s, and then he got replaced by Joe Tori, and Joe Tori then won a full World Series. I'm not saying that the next,

next coach is going to win four titles in the next five years after that happens. But I think that he's going to get one more year after another second round exit. Maybe the Knicks will surprise us and win that second round matchup with, say, the Celtics, I don't think that will happen. But I do think you're right in terms of the roster. It looks like they're still, believe it or not, after all the moves they've made and what, five number one picks for bridges and then they made the Cat deal and the Brunson deal was an incredible one.

It still looks like they need to make one more move and maybe Cat is a part of that package. but yeah right now they're in a tough way because of the Celtics being in their way and now the calves have hurtled them and they sure look like they're for real. Hey guys, it's us and the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick and guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades.

Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments set to find Roland Garris. Gentian win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo.

In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human