The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - MASSIVE NBA Gambling Scandal, Ohtani The Greatest Athlete Ever? Broncos INSANE 4Q Comeback

Episode Date: October 25, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week. First, Colin is joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Things First” on FS1. They dive straight into the MASSIVE gambling & match fixing scheme that ended in the arrest of  Chauncey Billups, Terry Rozier and Damon Jones. They call it the “NBA’s Pete Rose” moment, and Danny argues Chauncey should be thrown out of the Hall of Fame if the allegations prove to be true (3:00). They discuss the world of underground gambling & the history of the intersection of the mafia, gambling and sports and Danny explains why the level of regulation in legal betting is what caused the players to be caught tanking their player props (11:00). They argue that these types of scandals will happen as long as the leagues are in bed with the sportsbook, but there’s no going back with the huge money involved, and it’s better to have props monitored and regulated rather than move underground. Danny argues that there’s a solid case to outlaw “under” player props (16:00).  They also recount Victor Wembanyama’s absolutely insane 40 point performance against the best frontline in the league and debate whether he’s already the best player in the league at 21 years old (26:00). Then, Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to break down the absolutely insane 4th quarter comeback for the Denver Broncos over the New York Giants (35:15), debate whether the Chiefs have regained their status as the best team in the NFL (47:45) and Colin argues that Shohei Ohtani is the greatest athlete EVER (53:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jen should win.

She's an outsider to win the French friend. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. The Volume.

Now it's time for this week's Redeemed team member brought to you by Hulu's Chad Powers. This week it's DeBonte Adams. Three touchdowns in London. Rams crush. the Jacksonville Jaguars. Adams became the second player to have three touchdowns in an international game. He and Stafford were dialed in. Chad Powers is now streaming. New episodes Tuesday on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Danny Parkins is the perfect guest today for this show. Not just because he enjoys a little parlay from time to time, but his, yeah,

like tonight. But so, but it is a, it is something I think both of us feel strongly about is I, I always push back. I think the media, the mainstream media sometimes can be really outdated and precious when it comes to gambling. Europe's far ahead of us, has been for years. And the truth is, I, and this is another criticism I have of the media, they tend to pander. And so I don't think because there's more gambling opportunities, it's an invitation to be an addict. I don't think more bars are going to induce you into being alcoholic. I think there are rules.

There's laws. These are personal choices people make. But I do think addiction is a sad tale because many addicts are poor with no way out. Where Chauncey Billups to me, Danny, the part of this that's just mind. mind-boggling. Forget the fact that Chauncey Billups made over 100 million. He was always thought as a very kind of smart, I would say, almost a coach while he was playing. He was an adult in the room that he played rigged poker games knowing they were rigged. I'm, I don't even, I mean, if you'd have told me, if you'd have given me 20 names of people and he was on it, I'd say,

well, it's not Chauncey. That I know for sure. Of all the stuff on Rozier and Chauncey Billups and Damon Jones and the Lacosa Nostra and the poker, Chauncey played rigged poker games and knew it. To me is the, what, what? Does that land similarly to you?

Yeah, of course. And I mean, obviously, we have to say all of these things are like alleged at this point, but they've got some pretty damning specifics here, right? So, you know, let's just have the blanket, their allegations thing out of the way. And yes, Chauncey Billups' reputation was sparkling. And, you know, it appears that he also is involved in the sports gambling one as that unidentified person who played from this time to this time. And there was a coach from this time to this time.

And it was an Oregon resident. Like that, we're going to talk about a lot of this. But, like, if that is true, like, let's just assume that. that the unnamed person and the sports gambling one who fits the exact description of Chauncey Billups is Chauncey Billups. I mean, that is the NBA's version of Pete Rose. Yeah. You have an NBA head coach tipping off a gambler that he's going to sit players so that they should bet the under.

Like that, I mean, he's in the Hall of Fame, Colin. Like, can he get thrown out of the Hall of? of Fame? Yeah, yes. Right? But I think that is on the table for his basketball reputation, if that is true. Because I would imagine he would not get thrown out of the Hall of Fame for just the poker side of it. But if he was, if it's proven that Chauncey Billups as an NBA head coach, it was proven to letting gamblers know what he was going to do with his players for the purposes of betting unders on props, he'll never be allowed around basketball ever again. And it would be a startling fall from grace for one of the guys with like a truly immaculate reputation within the game.

Yeah, like there are, you know, I can think multiple things at the same time. If he was a, you know, like when people have problems with addiction, and I don't know if this is addiction, but when people have problems with addiction, there's varying levels of it. I mean, I had somebody close to me that drank for 50 years and stone cold stop at 64 and has never touched it. And it's like, and I've heard multiple stories of that. My dad didn't have that ability. So some of it's genetic. Some people are wired to be able to stop stuff. I don't have an obsessive compulsive personality.

So I don't have that. I worked once in the Pacific Northwest with somebody who had moderation issues with food. and gambling and behavior. And it was scary. A person could not control everything from food intake to temper to gambling. So I don't know if that's the issue. But Chauncey certainly could seek help and could afford help. What really bothers me with Chauncey, though, is the rigged poker games, because that's more sinister to me.

It's one thing. It's stealing. Yeah. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it is stealing. I mean, listen, so I've played in, like, I play cards. Nick and I have played cards together forever. Nick at this point is a much more accomplished poker player than I ever was. But I have, so I've lived in Chicago, Syracuse, Kansas City, and now New York.

I have played in what are technically illegal poker games every place I've ever lived. because what makes a poker game illegal is if a place takes a rake, if they take a Vick, right? Like a, you go to a casino and you play poker, maybe they'll cap it at 20 bucks a hand. It's a percentage of the pot up to a certain amount and then it's capped. And that's how, like, the house makes their money. And so, like, if you go to a guy's house and he's got a table running and he's got a dealer and, you know, you drink for free and maybe order pizzas for the room or whatever, the case maybe like how do they pay for that how does the guy make his money they take a rig they take a big out of the game right a rake is what it's called in poker and that's like technically illegal but

it's not a big deal like it's not it's just everybody does it for forever but if and when you go to any game that isn't in a casino you of course have like a you are some fear of like is the game on the up and up do the players know each other is the dealer in on it like that is like a thing that you take on some level of risk, which is why it's like, quote unquote, safer to go play in Vegas, to go play in Atlantic City, to go play in, you know, the casinos in Chicago or wherever. So that's where I would normally play. But I've found myself in these games before. And it's in the back of your mind, but it is what it is.

But if with the allegations about Chauncey Billups that the dealer was in on it, the other players were in on it, and he was as the, the. letter of the law. What the FBI guy was alleging is that he was what they called the face card, play in a game with Chauncey Billups, which is what would get big fish with money. Oh my God, I've got money. I can play $10,000 buy-in poker games with an NBA with a Hall of Famer,

and I get to meet him and take pictures or whatever. And then if Chauncey Billups also knew, which is what they're alleging, I mean, he's a common criminal. Like it's it's it is it is the same thing of going into someone's house and robbing them of their jewelry. You know what I mean? It is it is theft. There's nothing. There's no other way to describe it.

Yeah. It was, you know, I'm much older than you. And my first job was in Las Vegas. And I came in there pretty naively to Las Vegas. And I covered Jerry Tarkanian. And Tark was always fully aware of the casinos. There were some, uh, I could name a couple of guys. guys that were around the program, one of the things Tark had like, I remember this, like 40 free

tickets. That's unbelievable. Like Jim Herrick at UCLA had like four. You know, Tark had like 40. And by the way, he would give him to a guy I know. We used to call him a track suit, Tony. He would give him 35 of the tickets, 36 of the tickets. And Mike would sell those tickets and bring back, you know. Yeah. And then there was another guy named Larry. I'm not going to say his last name. He had a big business on the side. And, you know, there was always these feelings of these guys aren't, you know, I don't know about these guys, but I knew the guys, they were fine. They were just like guys around Tark. But there was always reputations. Tark hangs around the, and my take was, guys, they're not mafia members. Like they own businesses. They're just kind of, they want to be, you know,

was the biggest celebrity not named Steve Wynn or Mike Tyson in town. But, and I, there was a lot of talk through the years. And I just didn't buy into it because I, the only time I've seen Tark turned gray is when I brought up gambling. And he's like, it terrifies me. He just like changed personality. He goes, it terrifies me. And it was Tim Gergerich and those guys. They, they, and Lois Tarkanian, and they really educated the players. And then one day, the administration was trying to get Tark out, including the athletic director at the time and a picture, a Sunday morning, Las Vegas Review Journal of Moses Scurry, Anderson Hunt, David Butler, in a hot tub with Richie the Fixer Perry. And so I was like, oh, program over.

So that obviously the AD found the picture. They got it to the, you know, newspaper. So I was right. Suddenly I was a crime reporter. And it just, it's just no fun. You know, I'm like 29 years old. I want to talk Mike Tyson. I don't. I'm talking about Richie the Fixer Perry. And nothing was ever really proven. And I still to this day would defend that program to the ends of the earth on any of the gambling stuff. Tark constantly pled with his players to stay out of these casinos. But I think one of the things I said today is since the chariots in Rome, mafia gambling sports, you just have to understand.

it's not because it's now legalized. It happened to Henry Hill in the 70s at Boston College. Too many people are jumping to, see, this is the problem with, you know, fan duel. My take is, guys, my take is you're really naive. In fact, I'd say it's more regulated now, and it's arguable. It's more monitored now. My take is these stories are good, actually, because it fishes out the bad actors.

Okay. There's a level of nuance. this as I see it. It is objectively true that the way that these players got caught, Jonte Porter, Rozier, like for tanking their unders is because it was legal. The regulation is what allowed it to be caught on day one. If Terry Rozier's player prop of nine and a half points is posted. And normally that gets $2,000 worth of action across a bunch of $10,000, $50, $100 bets.

And then one day, there's mid-five figures of action. That gets flagged. Yeah. And it gets notified. And the site, Van Duel, Draft Kings, hard rock, whomever, and the league, their interests on that are allowed. mind. Yes. Because the NBA wants the integrity of the game and the gambling company doesn't want to lose money. Well, and Vegas, the margins for sports betting in Vegas in 2025 are thin.

Right. Exactly. So like they're, they are catching that quicker and more accurately. Yeah. Literally the day it happens in all of these cases that have come up because of the regulation. So like the idea that it is like happening more because of it, they're going to also catch it. I will say though that like it is easier to gamble. Yes. Because it is legal. It is easier to have a phone, have access to a debit card. Like when I started online gambling when I was 15, 16 years old, it was like, it was like,

offshore. And you had to, it wasn't that high of a barrier of entry, but it was like, are you going to get paid? Do you have to buy a phone, like a international calling card to deposit? Did you have to wire money? Would your bank accept the check? It was a whole big runaround. Now it is just like much easier. And there have been studies done on Twitter, Instagram, all these apps on our phone. They are, they are programmed like slot machines to get you. to keep checking the pings and the notifications and the lights to get you to keep logging back on. It's just like Silicon Valley's algorithms, they want you on the phone. Well, so that's what I'm saying. So I do think that it would also equally be naive to dismiss

the barrier of entry to gambling being easier than ever before, pretending like that does not have a causal link to an increased amount of. problematic gambling behavior, primarily in young men. Right? Like, I do think that those numbers are going up and will stay up. But it ain't going away. Yeah. Right.

Like, prohibition doesn't work. To your point, it doesn't work with alcohol. It doesn't work with weed. It doesn't work with gambling. It doesn't work. It doesn't work with sex. It doesn't work with anything. Never has.

So, and never has. So. You know, I've read really smart columnists on this story. And, you know, a lot of the conclusions are similar. And it is, you know, like the leagues got in bed at the gambling companies. That comes with a cost. Was it worth it? And those, the leagues are all universally going to say yes.

Yes. You know, and like they're, there are. So these stories are going to happen. And it's, it sucks. Danny. But I do, I do. I do think it is an unavoidable cost of the legalization of sports gambling, but there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Listen, Hollywood called Saudi Arabia money blood money. It's a complicated world. Now Hollywood's taking Saudi money. Right?

So when I hear people say, well, live, oh, stop. There's a real truth out here. The Puritans are always people that don't get. offered things. Chris Rock, you're as, you know, you're as loyal as your options. The internet trolls, the anonymous people, they're always the most unified in their pristine views of the world. And the truth is, if you're offered stuff, people eventually take it. They justify it. Saudi money was viewed one way. And then now it's not. And the reality is everybody, networks, Hollywood, leagues, everybody accepts it. And I look at sports gambling. Again, I, there's a little bit of a link with alcohol where I think, listen, I, leagues, for instance, stadiums cut off alcohol sales in like the seventh inning. Like we're serving it, but we're stopping at the seventh. You know, bars, you know, tell people enough. My concern is, I think the prop bets on your phone, are endangerous, but if you ban that, well, then it goes to the unregulated market. And that's worse.

So to me, I would just rather have all this crap monitored. I want all gambling monitored closely. And then, I mean, like, one of the problems. I think there's a, yeah. Yeah, sorry. So sorry. I think, I think the prop bet thing is an interesting, like, I do think, I wonder if it is, if there's an interesting thought, though, to like, if you're, if it's a, like,

what the level of player is that should have a two-way prop market offered. Like, should I be able to bet the under on the eighth guy on the NBA team? And his prop is like six and a half points. Like, I don't know. Maybe they shouldn't be two-way markets. That's interesting. And that's bad. That's bad for me as the gambler.

Yeah. Because, like, normally you get way worse odds if they are just one-way market because people like playing overs so those things get like inflated like the sharp money is often to bet unders because people like betting overs right um but i do wonder if a potential solve for this is you can bet terry rogiers over and that's it cannot bet but you cannot bet is on that's right that's right i i think that there's that that might be a way to help in the prop market a little bit because that is a legitimate problem. That is a legitimate integrity of the game issue.

And again, I feel like the leagues and the gambling companies, like the gambling company might scoff a little bit. That's going to cost us some money. And the league's going to say, deal with it. Like you want to be partners with the NBA, the NFL, Major League Baseball, be our official gambling partner. Like you've got to take that 1%. Like people aren't going to just, they're not going to stop gambling.

They're going to gamble on something different. You know, so I've been thinking about it a lot. I feel like maybe that's a potential solve. Listen, our, it's just our, no more two-way markets on player props. Yeah, our brains work similarly because I thought about this interview I was doing with you tonight. And I was thinking about prop bets. And I'm like, well, well, I don't want it to go to the unregulated market. That's, that's nonsense.

You can't, I mean, you just don't have the same radar. But I do, my mind went to the same thing. It's just no underbets because then it can be manipulated by, you know, the whole. thing. Like Tim Donagy always said, I wasn't trying to change outcomes. I just called more fouls to get the over. Right? And I've always been more concerned with officials. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range

of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys. I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement. homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes

to win on clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down in three. to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I had to scrap my lead today.

Literally, with 20 minutes to go, I scrapped my lead. We had, I thought I was getting Kosh Patel on the show. What happened was, yeah, I thought it was. Yeah. Wow. I hope everybody realizes that in 30 minutes against the best front line in the league, Wembe did wilt, 40 points, no turnovers. Oh, hell yeah. Let's talk about it.

Okay. Time out. What is he? 22? Yeah. Okay. 40 points, 30 minutes, three blocks, no turnovers, 15 rebounds. Lost in all of this. That's one of the top five lines in league history. 30 minutes and 40. He shot 70% from the floor in Dallas has the best front line in the league. Yeah, it broke my basketball brain. I feel like, listen, I have loved him ever since I've seen him as a prospect. Everyone has.

I've talked about him in like pretty like lofty terms because of what he can be. But the maturity of the offensive game that he showed last night, I put together like a list of superlatives today on first things first that I ran past Nick in the segment that we do together on Thursdays. I was like, which of these do you think at the end of his career we're going to be able to cross out the names of the guys who currently have the records and it's going to be him.

So like three guys have the record for most defensive player of the year awards with four. Oh, he'll win 12. That's what I'm saying. But it's like Ben Wallace, Rudy Gobert. They have four. Like I would lay minus 500

that he gets more than four I mean, obviously the game minimum threshold is like the only impediment to that, but like, he's 22. He's going to, I agree. Twelve is on the board. Only player ever to win the scoring title and defensive player of the year. Michael Jordan did it once. Feels like when Benyama could be the second. You know what I thought about watching him last night?

What's that? I always had this feeling that if you did a one-on-one tournament, Michael and LeBron, Kevin Durant would be up there. The bigs, Janus would be good, but he doesn't have the ability, you know, because there would be three in the key to make it fair. I looked at that and I thought to myself, I'm not sure how many points LeBron in his prime would score on Wempe. I'm not sure. He blocked a shot. He got a rebound over Derek Lively last night.

And Jay Billa said it. lively 6-11, he looked like a sixth grader. He blocked a shot. These guys that are 610 and long, they turn around. Wembe moves off his player. He's blocking the ball near the elbow, somewhere between the rest and the elbow. And I think to myself, if you added six inches to Kevin Durant and had the same quickness and a little more length, I'm watching him and I'm like, I'm not really sure how you defend it.

You don't really defend this. No, you don't, you don't defend it. And like I just, I've been thinking about it like basically all day. I think we're going to just see things that we've never seen before that we're not even going to fully realize what we're seeing. He did something last year that I like demanded we get into breakfast ball because I'm like, I promise. you no one cares about this game, but I promise you no one's ever seen this. He shot a three-pointer, and it was like, you know, he was like fading back a little bit on the three, like a pure jump shot. Like he wasn't like running towards the hoop. He shot up a normal three-pointer. And he could tell off his hand that it was long.

So he lands from the jumper and charges. And he tip slammed, he put like a put back slam, his own missed three pointer. Like, we've seen that on free throws, but on a three-pointer, it was insane. Yeah. And I just think we're going to, we're like, did he take two dribbles from half cord and dunk? Like, you know, I think, I think we're going to just like start to like recap, we're going to have to like recalibrate what is actually possible. That's Mike, there's a story about Mike Schashefsky. And I think Mark Few was there in Jim Beheim. It was Olympic basketball. And it was one of their first looks at LeBron playing in a practice. And I had heard this story.

I don't know if it was from a friend of Jay Billis or it was somebody that. And I like, by the way, Jay Billis on pro basketball. I think he does a good job. I really do. I think he really, he clearly cares. He clearly cares. He does his homework. He keeps it to the game.

He's very good. Yeah, Jay's really good. And I think it was a friend of Jay Billis that told me Jay had told him they were doing a practice. Shishovsky was at half court, kind of arms folded, sitting back on the bench. And there was a loose ball and LeBron picked it up, full steam, swooped into pick it up and dribbled twice and dunked it. And Shoshchewski just was beside himself. He's like, that's six dribbles, maybe five with Jordan. And it was to your point, like Shoshchewski was taken back by it.

He turned to the Beheim or few or both and just went, what did we just watch? Steve Kurt, through a friend, told his story one of the first times he had to face LeBron. And it was just like, I don't even know, whatever. Like, oh, what do you want me to do? So I think, I think Wembe similarly, I just, I was watching with my wife. I said, see that guy in the shoes that are the bright shoes. I see he'll probably be the best player in the league this time next year. And I said it today. Luca and SGA can't dominate a game on the defensive end and Yonis can't shoot, you know,

beyond 16 feet. Yokic is a more complete offensive player, moderate mid-defensive player. By the all-star break, I mean, Jesus, Danny, six more games like last night. Is he the second best player in the league? Yeah. I mean, like, so I think that this is, it all depends on how we define this. Like, I always define that question by like the literal definition of what that means. Like a scout's eye, like the best basketball player.

Basketball people and media, really just not just basketball, because I think we do it in football too. We like, like I don't think Tom Brady is the best quarterback because I, he is the most accomplished. Sure. He is the goat.

Yeah. But like, but like, best quarterback is not goat to me, to me. Because it's like a scouting term, right? The guy last night's the best player. Wembe is the best player. Because I obviously agree with you.

Yokic is a better offensive player. Yeah, more polished. Yeah, sure. I agree. But like, how much better is he offensively? 10%, 15%, is he 20% better offensively. Wemby is 100% better defensively than Yonk.

So you know what I mean? The gap between, like, Nick was saying today that Anthony Davis would have been like the number one pick in the draft to like guard Wembe. I would say it would be Yonis younger, stronger more like like stronger basically than Anthony Davis. But like they're both, it's, they're two of the top three or four guys that you would choose. to try to guard Wemby. But so, like, the gap between Wembe and the second best defensive player in basketball is the Atlantic Ocean compared to the gap between Yokic and the second best offensive player in basketball. Right?

Like, so he's incredible. Yeah. And so I, but in basketball, we usually say, like, you have to do it in the playoffs. you have to win an MVP, you have to win a title before you can have like the best player alive title. I don't agree. I personally am like Aaron Rogers in his prime, Patrick Mahomes in his prime, they're better than Tom Brady or Drew Breeze. They're not yet more. I mean, Mahomes is actually now more accomplished than Breeze.

But like, you know what I mean? Like they're not, they're not, you have more yards, whatever. But that guy last night, he's going to have a quadruple double this. year. It's only happened four times in the history of the league. It would not surprise. No one's ever done it more than once. David Robinson did it once. Hakeem did it once. It would not at all surprise me if Victor Wembeyanama has multiple quadruple bubbles this season at 22 years old. He's the best player. That was a wild late window. On a day, Anne made chili, it was raining and cool. It felt like the fall. What a wild late

window, the Denver Broncos final five possessions with Bo Nix. Touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, walkoff field goal. So Bo Nix, not only did the New York Giants lead 19-0. They were totally dominating the game. Denver roars back for a 33, 32 win over the New York Giants. I got to tell you, if I'm a Giants fan, I feel strangely great. Jackson Dart on what we perceived as the game. game-winning drive plays with total confidence.

I didn't like the pass interference call, considering the consequences. I didn't love that call. You know, pass interference is such a nebulous, hard call to begin with. But I got to be honest about Bo Nix. I said this last week, and I said it the week before, John. First two years in the league as a quarterback, if you can run, run. It'll buy a first downs. These defenses are sophisticated.

This is not the Big Ten, the SEC or the, you know, ACC. See, the windows shrink. The coordinators are better. You have to pick up first downs with your legs. I thought today, especially in the second half, Sean Payton, let Bo Nix run on crucial downs. Yeah, I mean, Colin, it looked really ugly. I mean, there was a point in time.

I mean, they had to score 33 points in the fourth quarter to win the game. They didn't have a point. You know, there was a stat I saw going out of the first half that over the course the last three games, that they would be dead last in third down conversion percentage. I mean, they were atrocious. They were just going three and out. They couldn't sustain any drives. He kept missing the big plays.

And then it just flipped. I mean, the one thing you can't deny that he has, he's got some mental fortitude. And Sean Payton, what looked like was the game-winning touchdown, they ran like a quarterback power, you know? And they just let him, if you remember a long time ago, the 49ers with Alex Smith played Sean Payton in a playoff game with the Saints, they did the same thing. And I, you know, that quarterback, they should institute more stuff like that with Bowen. to their offense because they've been running these deep breaking routes.

He's been missing them. Keep it shorter, short, intermediate, run the ball. I didn't think they ran the ball enough. I'm with you on the Giants. One, their quarterback just looks like he's kind of got a little something. I mean, he looks. Yeah. Cam Scadaboo looks fantastic.

Their past rushers all look good. Listen, it's not going well. They've lost two devastating games. This is the cowboy. This is worse than the cowboy game. But, you know, I'd say big picture. You're okay. But this was, it looked for a second.

when Denver was getting shut out. And even when they were down, what, 26 to 8, you're like, well, the chiefs are on the transcending up. And Denver has just got some major offensive problems. The charges are the chiefs just going to run away with this division? And then it's the NFL and flipped. You know, I was thinking, John, Deshawn, because they really do the Broncos between Evan Ingram, Mims, Sutton, Franklin.

They have long, athletic, and guys that can get over the top. And their offensive line is right now rated number one or two by PFF. And I wonder if Sean has so much confidence in it. He's really looking for big plays. And the truth is this is only like 24 or five starts for Bo Nicks. Okay. So it's almost like he's coaching like he's got because Bo played so much college football. It's almost as if Sean has put a ton on his back.

And because Sean loves, I mean, Ingram's a stud physically. He doesn't even look like the NBA guy. And then Mims and Sutton, these are long-ranging athletes and they're all talented. And so they have the potential for big plays. But sometimes I think they should worry more about like five yards on first down. And a lot of it would be Bow Nicks packages. Because, I mean, again, when you watch him and you see it with Jackson Dart, these guys are born early in their career.

They want to run. They know how good the defense. I mean, Jackson Dart, we thought, scored the winning touchdown. They literally called a play for, they said, forget Scataboo. Bow Nix, quarterback draw. So, I mean, clearly, dayball trusts Jackson Dart to run. I mean, I just, when I watch Bo Nix, I see the skeptics, but he is an athlete. Yeah, I mean, I would run the ball more.

J.K. Dobbins, I thought, looked really good. I mean, when they get on the edges with their offensive line, the young running back, R.J. Harvey looks good. How about Hufunga? I mean, it has to be one of the. better off-season pickups in the league. He made play after play today in the middle of the game to kind of keep it close. Between George Pickens, Dallas acquisition, and Hufunga, those are great talents, but they're just great fits now. I mean, Hufunga was going to work anywhere.

Pickens is going to be as good as his quarterback, and Dax's absolutely on fire. You know, what did open it up, Jackson Dart had one big mistake today. It was that interception. They were leading 26, 16, 540 in the fourth, and it was an ugly pick by him. It was actually a great catch. It was the only way Denver get back in the game. They were going to need a turnover. They were down 28 or 26 to 8, you know, with seven minutes left. The only way you could come back was a turnover and he gifted them one on their side of the field. So we've seen Bo Nicks do this multiple times. I do think this is true, John. I think those 61 college starts coupled with Sean Payton's play calling. This is what we always talk about. Where you land in the NFL matters,

Bo Nix, a lot of college starts and a lot of harsh environments at Oregon, at Washington, big, big games. All that college stuff, I think,'s paid off. Bo Nix has been in a lot of close games, college and pro. I do wonder, you know, forever with Drew Brees, especially toward the latter end of his career, like pushing the ball down his field is his shoulder started to go. And Sean really wanted this athletic physical guy in Taysam Hill and it didn't quite work out. Now he has Bo Nix, who has the physical. capability of pushing the ball down the field and throwing bombs.

It feels like he's very inclined to throw a lot of go routes, even though it's not working because he's been dreaming about throwing go routes for a decade, even though, like you said, with Sutton and some of their longer guys, I don't pretend to know more football than Peyton, but it just clearly is not working. I think some of the back shoulder throws, some just, you know, running the intermediate passing game, that's where their skill sets, especially with the way Bo's playing, because right now his inaccuracy on the long ball, he just can't hit him. I mean, he's just way off.

Even on the past that they hit, that ended up leading the game-winning field goal, I just think he kind of threw it up for two guys, and I don't even know who he was throwing it to. But it worked, and like, I just think down the field, he's not very accurate. We're close. And he had a lot of balls batty today. That's a little concerned. He did. I mean, that's clearly a game-plan thing with the defense.

Put your hands up. He's not the tallest guy. It felt like he had like 10 balls batted. I know the number is probably like five, but there was a stretch in that game. how many times on second or third down, ball would just hit the ground. You just have a waste of play. Football season's here, and if you want to go to an NFL or college football game, game time is the place for you.

The Game Time app just gives you the advantage back to you, the fans. It's a hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences and a few taps. I love it. Easy to use. The game time guarantee means you can trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price, 100%. So they even let you preview your seat on the app. That's special. Plus fees roll is included. So what you see is what you pay every time. Take the guesswork out of buying professional football tickets with game time. Just download the GameTime app. Create an account. If you use the code, C-O-L-I-N, 20 bucks off, redeem code C-O-L-I-N, 20 bucks off. Swipe Tap ticket. Go. Download the Game Time app today.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We've created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers... This is how you guys remember it going to be.

going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down

everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen, she went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So it wasn't one of the better games, but Kansas City beat Las Vegas 31-0. The Raiders were held in 95 total yards, and in the last month, the Chiefs are averaging 32 points a game. And I was sitting there this morning. I really believe the NFL's come down to four tiers. First tier is Kansas City. It looks like the best team in the league.

Then there's several teams, Tampa, among them, Rams, Detroit, Philadelphia, Colts that appear to be really good solid football teams. Maybe Denver's in there, maybe not. There's three awful teams. Titans, Jets, Dolphins, probably Cleveland. But then there's about 21 to 22, Jeff Shorten. Ford said this today on the internet. Coin flips. And so we've got a great team, a small handful of good teams, a really small handful of awful,

like bottom of the NBA level teams. And then most of these games are, it's a lot of coin flip stuff. I mean, maybe the Raiders are awful. But today's a great, yeah. So today, this is the first time all year, Kansas City had their top three receivers. Rice had seven catches. Worthy had three, Ju-Ju-2.

I think I told you two weeks ago, keep your eye on Brashard Smith. That kid's going to end up being a really good player for them. Hollywood Brown. Now you look at their receiving core with Rice and Worthy, and you're like, oh, it's one of the deeper wide receiving cores. I mean, I just, it was 42 to 17 time of possession.

I mean, to me, Kansas City clearly looks like the best speed, the most depth, the best team hands down in the league. That's what my eyes tell me. I think one major difference this year and the way they look on offense they did last year, Hollywood Brown basically missed the entire season for him last season. He adds an element of just, I wouldn't say he's Tyree killed by any means from a speed standpoint, but he is a faster receiver, but he can catch balls intermediate, go over the middle. He makes a lot of plays for him. To me, you put him with Juju now Rice is back. It's kind of opened everything up because Travis looks way better. Part of the last

year was like, Travis looks really bad. And looking back, clearly he's an older veteran player, but everything was so condensed because they had no threat outside. So now you add Hollywood Brown, who's completely healthy. Juju and Patrick have a good chemistry. Rice now back in the mix with Worthy, you can spread the field out and open the middle of the field for 87 to operate. Because to me, Travis over the last month, I don't want to say he looks like himself in his prime, but he definitely looks way better than the guy that I thought was kind of over the hill last year. and part of it is he's not quite fast enough just to take on two guys anymore. But if he can get one-on-one coverage and just work zones and what he does best,

as he's doing right now, their offense feels much more balanced. And like you said, the Smith kid, I think from SMU, they drafted in the seventh round to go with Pacheco and Kareem Hunt. Their offense just has a lot of pros. Like not guys, like, I want to replace this guy. I want to replace this guy. Maybe not like Hall of Fame guys in their peak, but just a well-rounded bunch. I mean, their star left tackle has disappeared for a couple games, got some personal stuff going on. So whenever they get him back, interior of their offensive lines, excellent.

Their quarterback, I thought,'s been playing well all season. And today, I mean, Spags, I don't quite understand what's up with the Raiders. But they, I mean, Patrick Mahomes had Sunflower Season hat on at the end of the third quarter, which is pretty unheard of in the NFL, Colin. Well, AFC had their chances, but the Ravens are one in five. The bills have lost two straight. and the Chargers now are just beat up. Listen, I'm going to tell you something.

If you didn't watch the Chargers Colts, don't blame it on Justin Herbert. He's getting hell kicked out of them, and he is just sitting back there and throwing darts. But I kind of look at Kansas City, and it drives people crazy. But this league, for as long as I can remember, you can go back to Eddie de Bartolo and Bill Walsh and Joe Montana.

It's a leadership league. If you're good at the top, I mean, you know, you go look at the New York Giants fall from grace. they lose Tom Coughlin. They lose Eli Manning. I don't think they were ever great at general manager, but they were capable.

And it's just never been the same. It's just very hard, John, to find, as you know, there's no other Andy Reid in the league. And Brett Veach is one of the great mid-round draft guys in the league. And the Hunt family is mostly hands-off. And then Mahomes is uniquely gifted. And it's just, I always feel sort of like in college football, like if you're Notre Dame or you're Georgia and you hire the wrong coach or Michigan or something like that.

You know, one of those schools, it's easier to catch up. You know, it's easier once Lincoln Riley came to USC, their offensive recruiting got better, right? Like, and they may not win this or that, but the offense got really good, really fast because he knows what he's doing. USC's a big brand. It's easier for Blue Bloods. If Alabama gets Kalin-Dabori struggles for a year, Nick say, but it's Alabama. Like, it's a huge brand. And I kind of feel that with like Kansas City.

It's like if they have a bad draft or they have injuries, they're just so smart. I mean, owner, GM, president, quarterback, like everybody's an A to an A plus. So I just, I think the last couple of years, they can't figure out the offensive line. I wash them the last four weeks. To average 32 a game, I just, they look different than everybody else. Okay, I want to wrap with this. So I always thought the greatest athlete, not the most dominant, Serena is probably the most dominant or Michael Phelpson swimming is the most dominant.

Usain Bolt. But the greatest athlete I thought I'd ever seen was a guy named Carl Lewis. So Carl Lewis was in track and field. He was very unique personality, not really appealing to the masses, I guess. But in 1984, he goes to the L.A. Olympics, and he wins the 100 meter, the 200 meter, the long jump. I mean, winning any of those is sensational. He wins all of them. And he wins up four by 100.

So he wins like four goals. Then he goes to Seoul in 88. and he mostly duplicates it. Then he goes to Barcelona in 92, and he mostly duplicates it. And forget the Pan Am Games or the Goodwill Games or the World Championships in Tokyo and Helsinki and Stuttgart and Rome or wherever they are. Then he comes back to Atlanta in 96, starts in 84, 96. I mean, there was just like a 12-year period. It was Pan Am, Goodwell, World Championships, Olympics. He was dominated in everything. And then I'm watching Otani Friday. And I'm like Babe Ruth did not pitch and hit simultaneously.

And remember, the split-finger fastball kind of came into baseball in the 70s or 80s with Bruce Souter. Remember Bruce Suter? He pitched for the Cardinals and Cubs. He was a relief pitcher. He was a he was the first guy to throw a split-finger fastball. Babe Ruth didn't face that stuff. Those guys in the 20s and 30s and 40s, 50, they weren't facing split-finger fastball. For Otani to walk into this sport to be a power hitter,

to have that speed, to hit for average, to be a dominant ace. He may have one of the top five splitters in baseball. His fastball, he punches out Jackson Churrio in the first inning at 100. All of his off speed breaking stuff is above average. It's very good. Then he hits it out of the stadium. But I was sitting there watching and I'm like, think how good Reggie Jackson was. I mean, Reggie Jackson was World Series MVP's iconic 550 plus home runs.

Reggie Jackson was a terrible fielder, didn't run the bases. Not a good teammate. I think Otani's the greatest athlete I've ever seen. I mean, Michael Jordan wasn't a great passer. He wasn't a great deep ball shooter. He was a great offensive mid-range player, relentless, and a great on-ball defender. But I'm watching O'Tonnie, and I'm like, he's a top eight pitcher. I mean, he's a top base stealer when he wants to.

I just, I sat there watching and I'm like, Jesus, to just be an elite pitcher, hell, guys can't stay healthy. Snell, Glass, no, Dodgers, nobody can stay healthy. I just watching that game, I thought, this is the greatest single athlete I've ever seen in any sport. That was my take on it. Well, it's definitely the greatest game that's ever been played. Ten strikeouts, three home runs in the NLCS. Like, that's something you see the kid in Little League that's going to be on all the travel teams

that's 12 years old. You wouldn't even, you'd be hard-pressed to find that in high school. You know, I think L.A. this year had a couple guys that were drafted in the top 10, like high school players. I would be shocked because typically now that they focus on one, they're not playing both ways. Right, right. If the guy's in the league pitcher, he's just pitching if the guy's an elite hitter, he's just playing shortstop. I vividly remember when he first started playing for Anaheim,

because you had heard all this hype, and the Giants tried to sign him coming out of Japan. I didn't realize how tall and fast he was. And I remember, like, a ball that most power. hitters do not make it a second. He not only made it a second, he was there with ease, and he went, holy shit. But you see that guys, if Shoaheotani was born in Los Angeles or Dallas, Texas or something, he's probably a quarterback, right? Potentially. He's six foot five, 210 pounds. He's definitely playing a lot of different sports growing up. Who knows? Maybe basketball as well. I mean, maybe because he's athletically, he's an elite athlete.

Yes. You know, you watch the Yankees. It's like all their players look the same. You watch I remember two years ago going to a spring training game with Maria, and we had really good seats. And I was like, I thought Mookie Betts is an outfielder, and he's playing short and second base. I'm like, this is insane. It's like this guy, I thought he played like right field and center field. He can play shortstop, and he had to play in the series that looked like Derek Jeter. It was like, so they're two best players. And I saw, you know Matt Money Smith, he called Charger games.

Him and DJ came down. I played golf with them like last year. I saw this clip that he posted interviewing Andrew Friedman. And he's like, what do you say to everyone saying you just bought this team? And he's like, we play all these teams that have all these star players. And I see none of them out early, you know, three o'clock in the afternoon. You come out and you watch the Dodgers, Mookie Bet, Shohayot. All of our star players, Freddie Freeman, are doing extra work like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Tiger Wood style.

So it's like, this isn't random. Their greatness, obviously they have freak talents. but like clearly from a team building standpoint, like really, they kind of got like a Patriot vibe going. Like they're all just, it's like, this is a serious group.

Now, obviously, Shohey, you know, because he didn't pitch that well this year. Now, granted, he was coming back off the injury,

but he's got a pitch like that and hit like that, it's like, there's never been, that home run, listen, I'm a Barry, I'm a Giants fan at heart. That's a Barry Bond's level home run

on the cream and the clear with Balco. Right. I mean, that's, that was, That was insane how far that ball. You can see it. Do you remember when Barry hit the ball against Anaheim in the O2 World Series?

And I think Tim Salmon was in the dugout. And he mouthed that's the farthest ball I've ever seen hit. Obviously, you know, Barry was kind of a mutant by then. The Dodgers faces in the dugout all kind of had that vibe. Oh, I know. We've never seen a ball hit this far, ever. Yeah. It's just remarkable to watch him.

And, you know, I've said this. I think the Dodgers are the best run organization in North America. Max Muncie, the A's cut him. I mean, Tommy Edmund was a 260 hitter in St. Louis. He was a good fielder. Cardinals were like, we don't want to pay him. He was the NLCS MVP. I mean, Glass knows always had good stuff, six, seven, but he can't stay healthy.

So, I mean, there's no question. They can roll. The Dodgers' biggest advantage isn't just like, oh, Otani, because other teams could have paid for him. But great players want to play for the Dodgers because Otani comes up high five to the Dodgers, he has better people hitting in front of him and behind him. And the pressure isn't for him to go four for four. Otani had a terrible series until that game Friday. He couldn't hit.

So I think it's like one of these things. There's a reason five-star players want to go play for Ohio State or Georgia because you're surrounded by better players, right? And it's like if you're a great, like Freddie Freeman was playing for Atlanta, but it's like, look who's hitting in front of me. Look who's hitting behind me. You get better pitches. Well, I would say this.

you would say Otani and Mookie Betts, you know, Manny and Poppy were incredible power, but neither of them could run. I mean, this got to be when you talk about all-around game, the two most talented players that have ever played together. I mean, how do you beat that offensively and defensively? You've seen a lot of these duos, one, two, just mash. I bet, you know, Manil and Garrig, if we go back to the history of the sport. But we've never seen two guys that are this good on defense. And one guy can pitch. Ten strikeouts against the team that just won 97 games?

It's not like he's playing a team that won 80 games. I mean, that team was, weren't the Brewers a Powerhouse? Didn't they go like a month without losing a game? They swept the Dodgers this year. Six-nothing in the regular season. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers.

I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired. It's a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel.

Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your job? group perform. We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive.

I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches the toughest players, and the moments set to find Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.