The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Matt Barnes on Steph + Klay, Cooper Kupp on Stafford No-Look, Trading Russ w/ Jason Timpf

Episode Date: May 28, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, 14-year NBA veteran - and co-host of the All the Smoke Podcast - Matt Barnes (3:00) reacts to the Warriors heading to another Finals after taking out the Mavericks, Steph’s influence, Klay Thompson’s comeback after 2-years off, what Luka needs in a 2, and why Andrew Wiggins is thriving in the Bay. Then, Rams Super Bowl MVP Wide Receiver - and Eastern Washington alum - Cooper Kupp (21:00) opens up about his mindset when he arrived at Eastern as a zero star recruit, when he believed he could be a pro, what he saw at his first NFL practice, what it’s like playing for Sean McVay, what immediately wowed him about Matt Stafford, what happened on the famous Stafford no-look pass in the Super Bowl, and what impressed him with OBJ. Finally, Hoops Tonight  and Lakers Tonight Podcast host Jason Timpf (37:00) breaks down what makes the Warriors so difficult to defend, why they’ve had success defending Luka, if the Warriors dynasty gets enough credit and if the Lakers can find anyone to take Russell Westbrook off their hands. Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

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This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast. Another great week. NBA champ, the always interesting. Matt Barnes joined us insight into his former team the Warriors making another run. Super Bowl MVP Cooper Cup on the moment he realized Matt Stafford was on a different level. Plus Jason Timp tells me about the one mistake the Lakers

absolutely can't afford to make. Check it out. Prime Cuts. All the Smoke is the best sports podcast out there, along with the Draymond Green podcast on the volume. I just want to say that right now. It's raw. It's authentic.

Matt's always been a real straight shooter. And I think you guys also know that I love Stephen Jackson. So it's a real pleasure. He's a busy guy. He doesn't have to do this. But, I mean, you know this. You know the West. You know the Warriors.

When I was thinking, Matt, watching this game tonight, I thought the way they cut and move, is it a Steph thing? because usually in sports, Matt, when something's great, people duplicate it. They rip it off. Nobody looks like the Warriors. Nobody moves like the Warriors. Nobody cuts like the Warriors.

And I come back to, well, shit, it just must be Steph or is it? In fact, the only times they have problems is when they stop moving. They had that 13-0 Dallas Run. When they're moving, it's just impenetrable. It's, is it just Steph? No, I definitely think it's a team thing. You know, when I was there, it was constant movement and you're so worried about the three-point shot that that's how they're so effective in the paint because you always have to, you know, hedge on these screens or Clay or Step are coming off, you know, show or double team and they get so many slips. But, you know, it's interesting to me in a day and age where, you know, dribbling's at a premium and everyone wants to go one-on-one and do what they do.

The ways are the exact opposite. You know, at the end of the clock, you know, normally if you look at Dallas, you know, you know the ball's going to be in Lucas hands when they call, you know, when they're going to be. They call red. Red is under five seconds. You got to go with the Warriors. They continue to move and get a good shot. Even if it's with like 0.6 on the clock, they'll still get that extra pass to turn down a good shot and get a great shot. And I think that's what makes them so scary. Although Steph can go one-on-one, other guys in this league do. But I feel like he gets more success off his movement and everyone's ability to kind of continue to move. And it's just almost like pick your poison note to think that Steph was the fifth leading score in the game. a closeout game and they won by double digits. I mean, there's not another team that can have their leading score be the fifth score in a close out game and even be close in the game. And this team wins by double digits with Stephanie the fifth leading score in a close out game in the Western Conference Finals. Coming off an injury is really hard. I never had. The only injury I ever had, I had a motorcycle crash as a kid and I can remember my parents making me get back

on the bike. And they're like, you just got to get back on it. And, you know, so we're in a rehab, and you've been in rehab before, you come in rehab, and it's not really a physical battle. It's a psychological battle to pivot, to turn, to. And I almost felt like in the last three games, it's like I visually saw Clay, like just that something hit, something clicked. Now, again, maybe it's just because he played so well tonight. But talk a little bit about if you could coming off an injury, rehabbing. the psychology of it.

I honestly thought in the last, in this series, the second half of this series, I'm like, okay, he's gotten past something upstairs. I mean, the biggest hurdle coming back from any injury is, is the mental strength to understand that, okay, if I get knocked, my surgery repaired knee is going to be okay. If I fall awkwardly or lay an awkwardly on my ankle, my surgery repaired ankle, so on and so for it. The hardest thing to do from an injury is come back and really trust that. And then you add that the kid, you know, the guy missed 940 dates, you know, of basketball. So, you know, he's really been back five months after missing two and a half

years of basketball. So, you know, that's why I predicted at the very beginning of season, depending on what Clay Thompson comes back, you know, Golden State was my pick because I had a feeling that, you know, he's going to do what he needs to come back. He's not a guy that lives above the rim. He's a very smart player. So I knew athleticism, you know, he wouldn't really worried about that because he can still get his shot off. But, you know, Clay is really to me still working his way back in his shape. And one thing about this team, too, if you think about it, they haven't necessarily played. I think they showed peaks in this Western Conference about how good this team can be.

But they've been very up and down throughout the playoffs. And to think the first two rounds very up and down, you find yourself in the Western Conference finals. Normally, you know, in the NBA, we want to be peaking at the right time, although, you know, they lost, excuse me, they won five in a row at the end of the season. but they were six and four, you know, at the end of the season. So normally teams want to peak at that point going into playoffs. The crazy part, I think the Warriors are starting to peak right now, which is weird.

Like I said, you want to peek going into the past. These guys are peaking going into the finals. That's why I think they're going to be really hard to beat next round. I'll pivot to Luca. Not much of a defensive effort in the second half. I mean, listen, they attacked him. And, you know, I said this the other day on Fox. I said, listen, you can say he's Larry Bird, but Larry Bird was feisty defensively.

He was competitive. He wasn't great. Sometimes I feel with Luca, there's a little mellow thing where he's so gifted offensively. That just gets his love and attention. Right. He doesn't give you a great effort. And I don't know how you change that, Matt. Like, it feels like defense's attitude.

Like, how do you? Yeah, you have to want to play defense because obviously it's not as dexterity. You don't get as much money. You don't get talked about on SportsCenter, necessarily about defense. But what I will say is Luca is so young and he's never really been held accountable on the defensive end. And I think that's why I think there's still a chance for him to change because I feel like he's improved this year under Jason Kidd. You know, it's rare that a coach can publicly call out a superstar and not blow up and backfire. But I think there's such a high level of respect for Jason Kidd there that Luca looked at as a challenge and not a disrespect, which is, you know,

there's a thin line between that. So I think Luca can get better at defense. And he realized now going this far in the playoffs that he was a target on the defense of it. And as a man, he's going to, you know, he's going to, you know, that pride always steps in. So although he's continuing to be one of the most gifted young offensive scores this game has ever seen, I think where he knows moving forward now is that he's going to start, I feel like he's going to start getting his body. Although he's never going to be a six-pack chiseled guy, but he can obviously, you know, probably trimmed down the body fat a little bit and get quicker feet.

And then, like you said, defense is a mindset and then attitude. And I think no one's asking them to be first team all defense or an all defense, and NBA all defense. But sometimes it's just effort that I feel lacks sometimes because he is doing so much. You saw he didn't release it out in the second half until, you know, Dallas threw up the white flag. So this guy is carrying this franchise and this team, every possession up and down the court. So that's why I kind of not giving them a pass, but understand that being able to play both sides of the ball. the entire game, it's very tough because he is asked to carry such a heavy load on the offensive end.

Well, and the other thing, Matt, if you look at his offensive game, he doesn't blow by guys. He initiates contact. It's a lot like James Harden. It beats the hell out of you. I mean, Harden, at the end of playoff series, is shot. And, you know, Luca's not jumping over you. He's not John Morant flying past you. Everything is contact.

And so when I think about who he should. play with. You know, do you put him with another great offensive player and it may not mash? Or do you put him with kind of a Clay Thompson, a catch and shoot, but an elite defender who doesn't have the ego to be a one? Like, part of me thinks Donovan Mitchell, but he's a one, won't want to be a two. Like, what is the ideal Luca two look like to you? Some of it in a Clay Thompson frame where he is an elite score but doesn't necessarily need

the ball in his hands to be. be a score, a great catch and shoot guy, great pin down guy, a guy that can get the ball, you know, get a bucket off the dribble and also someone that could play defense. But like you said, it's going to be an interesting pairing because Luke is so ball dominant. He's so bald on it. But I think when they start putting more, and I say this with all due respect, he made it this far. But obviously, when I say weakest, I don't want, because people are crazy with the weakest, supporting cast, you know what I mean?

And all those of these guys are probably. These guys played really well. if you look up and down the roster, he did what he did. It kind of reminded me what AI did when he took his team to the finals against the Lakers when it was really just AI. He had a lot of hard-nosed, blue-collar hard workers, but it was AI. So, you know, to me, it's going to be interested in me because I feel like they are one player where I love the, you know, the breakout season that, why am I for you? Jaylon Brunson. Jaylon Brunson had, it's going to be interesting to see if they can keep him because I know some teams are going to throw money at him.

but they're going to have to find a star that can pair with Luca that is okay with not having the ball in his hands all the time because a lot of these stars are best when they have the ball in their hands and that's there's not a better person in the league with the ball in their hands than Luca so they're going to hit you know his Batman so to speak or excuse me his Robin so to speak is going to have to be someone who's just as effective without the ball but when he has the ball he can do what he needs to do yeah and Jalen's small so he's not a great defender so I really do think you got to go find somebody who can score but defend

And, you know, one of the things about the Warriors that's amazing, like Kvon Looney has now become an elite rebounder. Jordan Poole is a G-League guy. He, boy, he beats guys off the dribble. Like, it is fast. Right. They draft and develop really well. Key. Did you see it there?

I mean, what's the secret sauce? If you look, I mean, it's just, like, again, up top, you know, Bob Myers and those guys, to me, leadership starts at the top because. I was in Golden State before, obviously, with the We Believe run, and it was just a different energy, a different environment. Yeah, we made India history. But when I went back this second time, just the energy in that organization is just different. You know what I mean? So obviously being able to draft and make big moves, and I for one, and I apologize maybe four or five months ago, I thought the Andrew Wiggins move wasn't a good move because I'm thinking, okay. Right.

Back, you know, Wiggins is not a shooter. He's not this. He's not that. but he was exactly what they needed. He was a guy they obviously get it, you know, get it off the dribble with the ball in his hands. He can, he's a good spot-up shooter, but he plays defense. You know what I mean? So they just see things that other people don't.

And, you know, if you think about it, their core was all drafted by that team. Jordan Poole was drafted by that team. No, Steph, Clay, were drafted by that team. They have such a great eye for talent, although they're a destination organization still, but they just do such a great job drafting and then kind of developing, their guys. They don't give up on their guys. So, you know, obviously hats off to manage me because they've been able to build something special. And a day and age where we're seeing players in particular, but stars move so much, they've been able to keep their core together, you know,

and obviously being able to bring back Andre Eagle Dahl, even though he hasn't been able to provide anything game-wise, I'm sure he's giving these young players on the bench so much knowledge and seeing things, obviously, because he's been with this core that not everyone is seeing. So to be able to keep four very high IQ guys around. three guys that are still giving to the best they can. This warrior team is special, and that's why I think we began to see it. It's not just like, you know, Clay comes back, semi-healthy, healthy, and being able to round itself in health coming into the playoffs,

that I really don't see a team beating them because they have all these weapons that even know about Jordan Poole. Jordan Poole kind of popped up on the scene late, but I just knew mentally and chemistry-wise, those are two things that I think that are overlooked in sports in general, and those are the two things that they're best at. Well, I mean, Wiggins, if they face the Celtics, you can just put him on Jason Tatum. And you don't even need his offense.

Seriously, just say, like, dude, hold him to 42% shooting. That's a win. I thought he gave Luke a trouble throughout. You know, his length, his speed and he's strong, too. And really, to me, it's half off to Wiggins because obviously, you know, everyone looked at him as a number one pick. Oh, he's a bust. He's not this. But this guy's been a consistent 18 to 22-pointy games for his whole entire.

career comes to Golden State now where there's zero pressure on him, you know, maybe the fourth option with all due respect, but he's able to really go out there and just be himself. And when they need to take over, I think was it last game where he had a big game, he was the lead score last game. You know, it was just he can give it to you however you like it brought up. But I like this. He's been able to be that guy that Clay was before the injury. If you remember, people don't realize how important Clay was that team, not necessarily because of his shooting. He's one of the best shooters ever. He was the guy that always took Kyrie, Dame Lillard,

C.J. McComb so that Steph didn't. You know what I mean? So now that Clay is still kind of rounding back in shape, I kind of feel like Clay's defense is the last thing that's coming back, but I have no doubt that he'll get it back. But Wiggins has been able to step up and be great with his length, his athleticism, his strength, and then his ability to play passing lengths. You know, he's just been a huge, huge, huge pickup for this team.

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Some call it grotesque. Others say it's. unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions. my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

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follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

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and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day But just so y'all know I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode

where we've discussed crack So I'm starting to see that there's a through line We also have AIDS on the table right now So Thank you finishing that sentence And yes I don't think there's a more important year For black people

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Coop, I know Washington State High School football pretty well. You were a no-star recruit, and I was a no-star broadcasting recruit that went to Eastern. But I looked back at Eastern, and I was a small-town kid, and I couldn't have handled a big school. I just wasn't ready to go to a Texas, you know, whatever, you know, Ohio State. I think back on my Eastern days so fondly. I was in Dressler, one of those circular. Yep, yep. I was on a great intramural football team.

I remember every player on that team. And I think for a lot of people, they look at Eastern out in the middle of nowhere, but it's got great spring, summer, fall weather. It's really good football. And that's where I want to start with you. Like, you didn't get recruited by anybody, even though you had some lineage in your family. Did you go to Eastern thinking, I'm lucky, I'm going to prove people wrong? Do you remember your first month on campus?

Yeah, I do. I definitely remember that first. I got up there in June. I got there as soon as I possibly could want to be involved in the summer program and learning the offense and doing all the different stuff. So I got up there real early afterwards. And I definitely, I had an attitude, I was very grateful for the opportunity. You go from this place where, you know, I walked off the football field.

My senior year, the last game, we got absolutely stomped by a team out there in Spokane, not far away from Eastern Washington, and get absolutely stomp by them. I walk off that field, having just gotten a stomp and having no scholarship offers. I don't, my last football game, I had put it all out there. I didn't have anywhere. I didn't know if I was even play in college. So for me, I was grateful for the opportunity that Eastern provided. I was also stepping into a play.

So there were three All-American receivers in front of me. So I was also very excited about the opportunity to learn from some guys that had done some really good stuff as well. So I got up there. That was really my heart moving up there and moving into that place, moving into Cheney and being a part of that stuff. There's nothing to do. There's not a whole lot to do up there except you get to play football and be a part of a really good program. Yeah, there was Zips. There's Zips.

Yes, exactly. There was Zips. I wasn't old enough to go to like, was it Shoney's or there was some bar, but I couldn't go to it until I was, until I was. until I was like a senior. And I felt really comfortable there because I came, my high school football team had 29 players. I was the quarterback, not very good. But when, so your dad,

your dad was a quarterback in the NFL, Cowboys Cardinals. Your grandfather was an offensive lineman. So when I read your story, my guess is you were a late bloomer, that you were athletic, but you like popped, put on 15, 20 pounds. That was my guess.

Yep. When was the moment for you that as a skinny high school player that you kind of did think for yourself, think for yourself, yeah, I can make some waves in this sport and even think maybe Canadian football. I mean, seriously, like was there a moment? Do you remember thinking, I wonder if I could play professionally? Yeah, I do. And actually that moment is crazy as it sounds. That moment came when I was nine years old and I stepped on the football field for the first time. the pads on. I was at my brother's coach pitch baseball game. There was a team practicing out

in right field. I went and checked it out and said, I want to do this, Dad. Put the helmet and shoulder pads on for the first time and first time playing. I said, this is what I'm going to do. From that moment on, there was never a doubt in my mind that I was going to play professional football. I did. I weighed in my freshman year. I was 115 pounds. I was 5 foot 4. I put on 15 pounds consecutively. Every off season, it was put on 15 pounds, grew a little bit here and there. I did. I It wasn't until really my freshman sophomore year in college that I really started to feel like I came into my body. But the doubt, in terms of my mindset, my mindset never changed. I got laughed at all the time.

I wore ankle weights to school every day because that's just what I felt like I needed to do to make the leaps and bounds that needed to happen. But if you asked me my freshman year, stepping on that scale, if you had asked me what I was going to do, I was going to go, I was going to play running back at USC and follow Reggie Bush, and I was going to go play in the NFL. That was just, it was just, in my mind, in my heart, it was setting something. So I have friends in some NFL offices, and I knew the Rams liked you, but I also knew the Chargers loved you. And so from two GMs I know, they asked me, they're like, you're an Eastern kid. Do you know this kid? And I'm like, listen, they love him.

He's the hardest working guy on the team, totally focused. So the Rams come up on the red field. and McVey's up there. And so the day they're flying in, are you nervous as all get out, knowing you're going to have to perform for Sean McVeigh? Yeah, so you're talking about going to like Pro Day and like when like they came off the private workouts.

Yeah, so I got, I worked out with Tennessee Titans. I had a private workout with the Titans and I had a private workout with the Rams. And when the Rams came out, I was very excited about it. I don't know. No, good nerves.

It's a good nervous, but you don't know what they're going to throw at you. You know, when I was with the Titans came out first, you know, John Robinson playing DB on me and I was releasing against the GM and doing stuff like that. So you never know what they're going to throw at you. But I was excited about it. I knew that in my meeting with them at the combine stuff, I knew that there was a, you know, a cerebral nature to the offense that Sean McVeigh was running with the ramps that he was bringing in. And I was excited about that.

I was excited about me. You'll step in and do some of the things. that they were asking some of their guys to do. So when they came in, I just wanted to be able to be at my peak. I want to make sure that I could perform for them. But I also knew I actually had to trust in who I was and what I was as a player. And I knew that I was good enough to play in this league. It was just about getting an opportunity.

So you go from Eastern and then you go to your first camp. And that's a big leap. I mean, it's Carson Wentz has had to make it from that level. Tray Lance now, you make that leap. So it's hard enough to make the leap from Ohio State to the NFL. Do you remember your first NFL practice? Yeah, no, I do. I do.

Luckily, we were able to go through a little bit of a mini camp first, the rookie mini camp. But I remember coming out here that first day, and there is an uptick in the speed and the intensity, certainly. There's not much room for air. And quickly, it was the realization of how important the details are. details and your technique were going to set you free in this league. And I love that. I love the challenge that that presented, the opportunity presented for me, we'll dial into

those things. Those are all things that were under my control. Technique, being able to be intentional with how I wanted to run my routes, being able to understand the game, those are all things that were completely under my control. I knew I could dive into those details and get to the point where I'm processing things quicker and I'm taking advantage of those aspects. I knew that my body was going to follow along after that. So I love that challenge that was presented from day one, just the importance of all those things. And being able to step into that has been great.

Can you name the six receivers drafted before you? I name the six of them. I'm probably going to mess up right near the end there. But I know he had John Ross, you had Corey Davis go, you had Mike Williams go, you had Zay Jones, went to Buffalo and say I was a big fan of Zay's, coming out. He had Juju.

Maybe you had Curtis Samuel. Boom. Six for six. You're like Brady. He can every quarterback that got picked ahead of him. When in the route tree, one of the things I think, and if I'm wrong, tell me. But one of the things I notice with you, and it reminds me a little of Jerry Rice is that people always talked about. It's kind of legendary that Jerry wasn't a burner.

but what Jerry did and you do, you don't slow down off your routes. Like you just go the same speed. And it's interesting because it seems like everybody would do that, but it's not true. Did you copy, emulate? Is it natural that you don't slow down off a route? And I think that's harder than people think.

Where does that come from? Yeah, I really think it comes down to this. I was very lucky my quarterback coach growing up, the quarterback that has to this day throw me the most passes that I've seen the most time with is my dad. And I had an NFL quarterback, be my receiver coach from the very beginning

that that's who I learned to run routes from. When you're learning to run routes from a quarterback's perspective, you have no other option except to make the quarterback look good. Because if you don't make the quarterback look good, he's going to tell you something about it. So, you know, everything I did, every route that I ran ever growing up,

everything that I've ever learned from the receiver position, I learned through the eyes of a quarterback. and how to be friendly, how to be, be able to give indicator steps and be friendly to a quarterback and this is the angles that you're coming out with, being a friendly target. All those things came from the fact that I had a quarterback teaching out of play the position. And, you know, I was, you know, I was very lucky in that and just at a young, very young age, just became intrinsically.

That's just how I understood the position. So having that as a foundation was a huge blessing for me. So then you go to Sean McVeigh. and, you know, McVeigh is, he's just, he's so intense. Like, he's like a ball of energy. And he says, like, he loves coaching Cooper Cup. Has Sean McVeigh ever yell at you? Oh, yeah, I get yelled at all the time.

I get yelled at all the time. That's a great thing, too, though. You know, there's a, he is, he's very hard on the people around. He's also very hard on the people that he has great expectations for. And so, certainly, there's going to be ways that we see the, game in a very similar way. There's also things that we see differently. You know, as a coach, as a receiver, you know, when I am, when he's watching the game from a bird's eye view, from his angle, in his perspective, he might see things differently than I do. And this is a game,

it's a game of, you know, playing in the gray that's so much of what you have to do in this position, but what we do is playing in the gray and making decisions, you know, real quick processing. And, you know, we have to be decisive and you don't have time to sit there and think about it. You just have to make a decision and go. And so certainly there's times that we see things differently and have to have a, you know, a spirited discussion about, you know, what the right ways to do it. But the greatest thing here is Sean's humility and his ability to understand that collaboration is at the end of the day, if we can collaborate together and hear the voices that need to be

heard and come to a solution, we're going to be at the right place. It's not about one person making decisions saying we're going this way. So figuring out together what's best for us and then being able to be as efficient and effective as possible as an offense. Listen, you were good friends with Jared Goff, but it's a business. It happens. Mel Kuyper once told me that Matt Stafford was one of the only quarterbacks he'd ever seen that could have gone high school to the pros.

You could have put him on a roster, had him back up, grow up, mature. What was the first pass Stafford through to you in practice that you were like, whoa? I mean, it's Matt Scott, like he could be a starting pitcher. in major league baseball. Like, it's rare. It's top four or five in the league. Could you hear it? They hear the spin.

Was there a moment you were like, this dude's got an arm? Yeah. You know what's funny? You bring this up. I didn't thought about this, but probably the play that happened during OTAs, probably a year ago,

to the day almost, that it was like the light went on, like, oh, that is what makes this guy great? Is it the exact same play that we ran that he'd no look in the Super Bowl? It was honestly the first, That was the first time where I went back. I felt what he had done.

I think he might have just no look at one. I went back and watched him film and seeing him manipulate people underneath and do what he did with his eyes and being able to throw the ball that he did. It was literally on the exact same play that he no looking suitable. You know, when he had that great one on that last drive. It was literally the exact same play. But yeah, that was the moment where it's like this guy has something that is different. It's not a quarterback that's reactive.

You know, the saying take what the defense gives you. A lot of the times that's true. He also understands how to say, no, I'm going to dictate where this ball is going and move the people and make sure that I can make the throw that I want to make. That's going to be the big play. That throw against Tampa, when, I mean, Cooper, like literally the boats losing water. Like I'm sitting there watching going, guys, come on, get it together. It's like one of those NBA runs.

Somebody hit a basket. I know. So you, on that play, was that take me, was that going to be, I'm throwing it to you, period, or was he watching the break? Because that was really, that really was the play of the season for you at that point. Yeah, so that play wasn't even called for me. That play was called for Van Jefferson, running a little dagger route. I was going to try to occupy the deep safety trap pullout, some guys running down the middle of field.

And Van Jefferson was running a little widened dagger, end cut. at like 20 yards, I was coming in there, and the ball was going to be coming to him, and we're going to try to get up there, spike the ball and get one more play. And they end up sliding into that zero late, don't quite hit it how they want to. I feel a safety slide over,

and I just hit it and hope that Matthew was going to be able to get that thing up. And I mean, what Matthew did, what's not appreciate on that play, Matthew be able to see zero by enough time, and he put the ball up when I was about 12, 13, yards down the field, but it wasn't caught until about 40 or 40 plus yards down the field. For him to put the air on it that he needed to, to allow me to catch that in stride. As long as I was running down the field, it was an incredible throw on his part.

You know, it's interesting. When OBJ came to the Rams, he was really effective in that Super Bowl. He was also really effective immediately. Do you ever, whether it's Robert Woods or OBJ, do you ever watch, other guys on film, Coop, and you're just like, you know, I'm going to borrow that, like a footwork, an angle. Like, do you still, like OBJ, if I said to you, what do you see when you watch OBJ as a receiver? His patience at the top of the routes, his ability to, no matter what happens, if he loses his release,

his ability to be patient enough and trust that the depth of his route and the timing in which he's going to come open within the progression of wherever the play is, his ability to understand that and understand that the patience to the top of the route is going to allow him to win still. It's my biggest thing about Odell. He plays with such confidence and such patience. That's a great thing. That's the position. It is an art form because it's not about just how fast you can run.

It's getting open at the right time as well, being in the right place of the right time. And, you know, his ability to get to the top of routes and, you know, understanding how to use his eyes to manipulate guys, face freezing guys. He did an incredible job at that. So, and certainly, I want to grab things from guys. as much as I possibly can. This is, I've said, receiver is an art form. I want to grab as much as I can from other people.

It's not all going to work. I can't do the things that Calvin Johnson did. You know, there's some Andrew Hawkins has some stuff that he does that I couldn't do, but grabbing little pieces from each guy and being able to say, what, how much, how many tools can I add to my utility belt? How many things can I have up, you know, week in and week out to be allowed me to win? I'm all about that. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you'll say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. You know, Jason, I understand people who hate the Warriors.

They acquire KD. You know, Steph's mugging for the camera. They've won a lot. Like, I get it. But I think it's beautiful basketball. The cutting, you know, there are a lot of teams say they get along. I can watch the Warriors until they get along. And I don't know if it's Kerr, it's Steph, it's Clay.

but there is a harmony, Jason. You can go to the Y. And there are just times you get the right five guys, and they're just, they move without the ball. But I, the harmony watching the Warriors play, you can hate them. They don't even look like the remaining three offenses to me. I mean, you're a Hooper. I love watching them play.

I think it's tremendous television. That's my take on Golden State. They're impossible to replicate. You know, they're the most unique team in the NBA. and teams have tried, but they failed. Do you remember the Luca Donchitz trade, the one that sent the Atlanta Hawks two first-round picks, one for Trey Young, one for Kevin Herder,

and all the talks surrounding that day was, we're trying to replicate the Steph Clay backcourt. And then they went out to play basketball, and they played just like everyone else. Because it's such a unique style, and it requires a selflessness and a commitment to moving without the basketball, being a threat at all times, you know, being a part of something bigger than yourself, but not only that, but a commitment to the defensive end.

Steph and Clay pretty much from their time, when they first started playing with Team USA, embrace the defensive end in a way that so many offensive-minded guards have not. And when you combine that with their, you know, unique offensive play style, they're extremely difficult to replicate, to prepare for. I think Dallas, you know, they're making Dallas look bad. Dallas is not bad. Dallas was the second best team in the league since January 1st. They beat Phoenix for a good reason.

They demonstrated their ability to completely dissect, you know, traditional basketball teams. But Golden State's not a traditional basketball team. They're going to put you in tough spots and Dallas just hasn't been able to match it. You know, I said before the series, I thought Phoenix, outside of Mikhail Bridges, you know, Booker and Chris Paul just don't match up at all with Luca. He's thick. You know, people lament his cardio shape, but he's heavy.

I mean, he's like a, he's like a lumbering fullback. He's just a lot of body on you. But Draymond and Wiggins, and they didn't play Cuminga much, but he, and I just found throughout the course of this series is they didn't buy his pump fakes. Like Wiggins is so twitchy. He doesn't have to, he'll block the shot. And I think there was a real discipline the way Golden State played. They're like, listen, we're going to just keep him in front of us. Don't buy his fakes.

If he hits the shots, he hits the shots. And I thought, as good, Monty Williams is a good coach. But I didn't think they were terribly disciplined with Luca. God, any pump fake and Phoenix was in the air. And I think Golden States just said, we're not leaving our feet. I mean, I can almost hear Kerr. We're not leaving our feet. That's what, when I watched them against Luca, whether it's a box, a trap, the zone.

It's all the same principles to me. And I think Luca, not that he's frustrated, but it's, he gets almost everybody in the league, Jason, in the air. And Golden State's not buying any of it. Yeah, Andrew Wiggins' twitchiness buys him margin for error on defense. He doesn't have to beat you to a spot. He can recover. That elite recovery athleticism basically allows him to play more disciplined on defense. You know, I thought a huge swing factor in this series was, you know, coming into the

the question was, are we going to let Luca play isolation ball and stay home on shooters? Or are we going to send help towards Luca and, you know, play the gambling game with the shooting? And throughout this entire series, there's been one stretch where Dallas has consistently made shots. And it was the first half of game two. And they decided to mail in the defensive end in the second half, a thing that young, young inexperienced teams that haven't built up the necessary scar tissue, the pain of losing, they let an opportunity slip there because they rely so heavily because Golden State was sending so much help to Luca. They rely on people knocking down those open shots. And to be clear, they did through two rounds.

They were an amazing wide open three-point shooting team. But they got into this series and they stopped going down and they had no second punch. And versatility wins in the playoffs. If you can take away a team's best punch and they don't have a counter that they can go to, you're almost always going to win in that case. Golden State has a bunch of different ways they can go. I made this argument the other day. When the Patriots had their dynasty, they could have won all of them or lost all of them.

I mean, they were all. I mean, people lament the Mario Manningham catch if they're a Patriot fan or David Tyree. Every single game, other than maybe the Rams, was an absolute peril with four minutes to go. The Warriors are different. The Warriors have had bad breaks. they fell apart against Toronto. Literally, all but one starter was hurt. They were a better team, easily.

You know, certainly Kyrie hit maybe the shot of the decade, but there was a Draymond suspension. I think Andrew Bogot got hurt. Steph was hurt. That's right. That's right. And I look at the Warriors and I think, I think they're a better dynasty than we think.

That's my takeaway. Now, I may be a little hyperbolic because I love their style. where do we put them? How is there, there's two versions. Now we're moving to a third version. Is it possible they're actually in a sport that tends to popularize the fun and flashy? They don't get enough credit. No, they don't get nearly enough credit.

You know, it's, I think what you're seeing too that people are glossing over here is just how insanely talented the league is. And I think, I think LeBron gets hurt in this regard as well. people, Stefan LeBron, the Warriors and LeBron, made this look easy when it's not. When the league is as talented as it is, like, this is a very good Dallas team that they are dismantling right now. You know, that Memphis team was even without John Morant, an entirely different beast that they had to deal with. But, you know, most importantly, it speaks to the consistency.

You talked about luck. One of the easiest ways to counter that is to give yourself a bunch of shots at the table. You know, in terms of winning a championship, a lot of things do have to go your way. But if you put yourself in position seven times, chances are your win three or four of them. And that's the advantage of consistent success. Sometimes things break your way. It's like the 2020 titles for the Lakers. You know, a lot of things went their way.

Steph got hurt. Kevin Durant got hurt. You end up playing a Miami Heat team in the finals that's very flawed. But again, just you get enough cracks at the table that goes your way. It's the counterbalance to Kyrie getting hurt. and Kevin loved getting hurt in 2015. You've got to get to the table enough times so that some things can go your way. Let me give you one Laker question.

When the Lakers brought in Westbrook, I'm not a Westbrook fan. And I, you know, my takeaway was an obvious one. He can't play off the ball. And LeBron is a de facto point guard and should be. It's like what Yonis or Lucas become. Like just that's where the offense gets the genesis of the offense for the box is Yonis. I mean, I can see the offense. It's the same thing every time down the floor.

Here comes Drew Holiday off the curl. And it's like, okay, this is what they do. So LeBron's going to have the ball. Every offense that LeBron's on, they all look the same. They're all generated from the same space. And they should because he's a brilliant ball handler and one of the great passers of all time. But I thought that my takeaway was, well, Anthony Davis has heard a lot. LeBron gives you probably 65 games now.

somebody's got to score 28. They just don't have enough scores. And then the toxicity was worse. He was worse than I thought. And I'm like the least Westbrook-centric guy in the media. I think you have to move him because it's not just a fit. He lacks self-awareness. And, you know, Jason, you can be a lot of things.

But if you don't get it and you don't get, you don't get it, you're not coachable. I don't, I, I think you have to move him. And I think they're leaking the story that coaches are being asked how Westbrook would work because they want teams to think they're going to give it another try. But I don't think they want to. That's my take on it. Where do you think the Lakers look like game one next year? They simply can't bring him back. In terms of, in terms of how bad this year was, which is an all.

time catastrophe. We're talking about a team that literally was the second leading favorite in Vegas going into the season. It's a catastrophe of all-time NBA history proportions. And you need to somehow cleanse that. And like, I don't care what Russ says, which by the way, his exit presser was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in terms of a person deflecting any and all blame for anything that happened to him during the season. But if you're going to reset, you can't bring that guy back into training camp. I don't care if he makes apologies. I don't care if he works hard this summer. That would be such a bad gamble on their part. And what's dangerous here is the pride, because the reality is you might have to attach a first round pick to Russ to get rid of him.

But the front office is concerned of the optics of that, which is exactly, because we've seen reporting. The Lakers don't want to attach a first round pick to Russ. That's great. Nobody wants him. So how are you going to get rid of him unless you're willing to attach an asset to him, right? And at a certain point, that pride and just no one in the entire hierarchy of the Lakers is willing to just admit they made a mistake and move on. And clinging to that has been the biggest problem. But the only way I will feel even remotely optimistic about this is if they can get him out. And the advantage here is if you can flip him for, we'll call him overpaid role players, because you're going to get bad contracts in return because Ross is a bad contract. But there are overpaid role players that are better basketball.

players in a small role next to LeBron and AD, then they would be elsewhere. Andrew Wiggins is a fantastic example of this. Max contract in Minnesota, you don't want anything to do with it. Roll player alongside really good players, all of a sudden, he's a functional piece. So embracing that and understanding that, you know, flipping one bad contract that can't play for you for two or three bad contracts that can immediately play roles alongside LeBron, James, and Anthony Davis, that's a lot better option for you. So, I mean, I will feel horrible for Laker fans if they bring Russ back. That would be such an unbelievable disaster.

The volume. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green Show. I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on. on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some

SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the eye heart.

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.