The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts -  Mike Silver on Dan Snyder Sale, Jeff Benedict on ‘The Decision’ Behind the Scenes, Luka/Carmelo Similarities w/ Jason Timpf

Episode Date: April 15, 2023

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, longtime NFL writer - and host of the Open Mike podcast -Mike Silver joins Colin to discuss what changed to make Dan Snyder sell the Commanders, if the Niners could deal Trey Lance before the start of the season, and how long Aaron Rodgers will play for the Jets. Then, LeBron author Jeff Benedict joins Colin to discuss the behind the scenes mechanics of ‘The Decision’, the Knicks over-the-top failed pitch, why Pat Riley’s pitch struck the right note, how LeBron bounced back from the low point of a Finals loss to the Mavs, and the impact of his first meeting with Michael Jordan. Then, Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf joins Colin to discuss if the Lakers can take out the Grizzlies in a 1st round matchup, if the Kings have any shot for a 1st round upset of the Warriors, and if Luka Doncic is capable of playing with another star, and if his career is starting to mirror Carmelo Anthony’s. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast.

Jeff Benedict. Boy, this was good. Author of the new book, LeBron, great insight into the decision and other major turning points in LeBron's career. Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf and I discussed. Big NBA topics, including why Luca may be turning into a headache for the Mavs. And Mike Silver and I discuss what is reportedly the end of the Dan Snyder era in Washington. All right, my buddy, Mike Silver, part of the volume, longtime NFL reporter writes for ballet sports on the San Francisco Chronicle. Actually, they're going to be doing some warrior games since he knows Steve Kerr and knows hoops, which is great.

We'll get into that in a second. So Daniel Snyder, it's hard to ruin a great brand, right? like Donald Sterling was a bad human, but that was never a great brand, right? Robert Sarver did all he could to ruin the sons, but it wasn't a huge national brand. 70s, 80s, 90s, Washington was the Packers. I mean, they were, when I was a kid growing up, they were the franchise after Dallas and the Steelers. And it's such a great fan base. Exactly.

Exactly. So a lot of people felt, despite the harassment charges, that the owners would support Dan Snyder, and he would just figure out a way, despite bad PR, to hang around. Any insight to what possibly happened? Well, I think one thing that happened is that one of his own publicly started talking about,

maybe kicking him out. And I know Jim Ursay really, really well. I admire his conviction. He goes against the grain at times. It's possible Jim Mersey just spoke honestly. and from his heart. It's also possible that Jim Ursay had had some conversations with other owners who said, you know what?

We agree with you. And if you say that, you know, you'd have our at least quiet support. But that was not insignificant when Jim Ursa started public, you know, came out publicly and said, yeah, I don't know. Maybe we should get rid of this guy. Jim Ursa has three daughters. He's very close to him. he didn't like the way that the allegations against Stan Snyder were selling NFL owners and the league.

You know, prior to that, it had been thought, well, a lot of owners have skeletons. Right. Trust me. I worked for them for eight years. Trust me, they do. Whole other podcast topic. But, you know, a lot of owners have skeletons and a lot of owners more charitably could have people come out of the woodwork to accuse them of things that. maybe aren't totally accurate, but they didn't want to open that can of worms where,

you know, okay, if accusations happen, it sets the stage for these franchises they want to be generational that while we've been on this podcast that, you know, each one is appreciated at another $100,000 or something, you know, they didn't want to open that kind of worms. And remember, Jerry Richardson faced some pretty serious allegations just past passed away recently. That problem got solved because he was older and he was just done. He was like, you know what? Fine.

I'm out and they didn't have to, the NFL owners didn't have to deal with it. The NBA solved the problem twice by throwing money at the problem. Essentially, A, having the balls Adam Silver on his like first day on the job to say, you're out, Donald Sterling, whether it's constitutional or not. And then a giant offer from Steve Ballmer. and again with the sons that happened with Sarver. So, you know, this is a little bit of all of that. Daniel Snyder wasn't going to make it easy and walk away.

But I think once he heard Jim Mersay say that, he realized, man, something has turned. Now, the next least popular owner is Jimmy Haslam, who infuriated owners for another reason, an egregiously bad, fully guaranteed contract to Deshawn Watson. So if we had a ranking of least popular owners among other billionaire owners, Haslam now is number one, right? Well, that's so cool that you broached that because I used to do owner rankings,

as far as I know, I'm the only one who's ever done. I remember. I did them annually for SI.com and then Yahoo. and of course they were my rankings about who I thought were doing the best jobs of owning teams. But that actually has my wheels spinning. Like, what about an incitey odor rankings of which owners are the most hated among the other owners? And, you know, you bring up a good point. But I think in the end, you know, yeah, that frustrated other owners that Jimmy Haslop did that

because now we got to deal with this guaranteed contract stuff. And other owners didn't like it when David Tepper came in and gave Matt Rule, sounds weird in retrospect, but gave Matt Rule all that money because it messed up the coaching contract market. But I feel like owners get over that stuff, you know, eventually. But the, you know what, owners can't get over? Allegations, if proven, and maybe we'll never know, that one owner, Daniel Snyder, allegedly,

cooked the books and screwed them out of their share of the gate. That's less forgivable, you know, for the billionaire set. So, yeah, they tend to stick together. They tend to not want to set precedents like, oh, a couple of accusations could knock ex-owner out of the league and make them lose this incredible investment. But, you know, Daniel Snyder put them through the rigor in a lot of ways. and Ursae possibly knowing that he spoke for a larger contingent was kind of like, okay, this is a nightmare. Look, if the Colts play the commanders, if they're still called that at FedEx Field or a new stadium,

and Jim Ursay takes the field pregame to go schmuse, he should get like an adoring celebration and a prolonged ovation from those. Washington fans for a huge, huge assist on getting Daniel Snyder, the F out, because heaven knows it's been long coming and it's tough to shed any tears. So I want to talk about the Niners because you have such in-depth, you have tentacles all over that organization. And by the way, increasingly, when I follow your Twitter feed, all your critics are lightening up because you've been right so many times and broken so many stories.

They're like, Silver, I hate. whatever, what's the latest news? So the trail ant stuff is interesting. I was talking to Jordan Palmer the other day, and he's like, you know, if you look at the offense, San Francisco runs, a lot of these plays are scheme to succeed. Sam Darnold's going to have the best protection, the best weapons, the best coach he's ever had. And we know he's a big, strong athletic kid and coachable and hardworking.

He's just not accurate enough. But this system makes you more accurate. Don't be shocked if Jimmy Garoppolo is not nearly as good with the Raiders as he was with the Niners. So Brock Purdy, I think the franchise likes a lot and Sam Darnold are in-house. We all know at some point, and I think the Niners are, and even some of the soundbites and some of the quotes from your articles, they're going to move off something if they missed. They're not going to try to double down on wrong. Let's just be honest.

Could Tray Lance be moved before the season? He could, but I believe that Brock Purdy's injury and the uncertainty that still surrounds his recovery. made that much, much less likely. Before the playoffs, I wrote and reported, it's over. Brock Purdy's the guy because they want to go with this model where they pay everybody and have the quarterback on the rookie deal. That's what trading for that pick was about. That's what drafting Lance was supposed to be about.

And with Purdy, the model's even better. You're not even allowed to reopen his contract for two more years. It's even cheaper than Trey Lance's deal. and he showed Kyle Shanahan, you know, people are like, well, how can you say Purdy? I'm like, I'm not saying it. Kyle believes it based on what he saw from Purdy. He's the guy.

So going into that Philly game for the conference championship, the only thing that could have derailed that plan was what happened. If Brock Purdy had broken his leg, it would have been brutal and it would have hurt and it would have sucked, but they would have been like, fine, he'll come back. You, because of what happened, it was throwing elsewhere. elbow, you're not totally sure. A, you're not sure when. And B, you're still not positive that it's going to be like it was before. And I have PTSD because a lot of my Twitter critics probably weren't born when I was right about the Joe Montana Steve Young stuff. But Joe Montana missed

basically two seasons after elbow surgeries. And he did come back after that and have two really, really good years with the chiefs, but nothing is promised. And so I think because of that, it gives them an opening to say, look, we knew Lance was going to take a while to develop because he was raw. It's taken longer. It didn't work when we just handed it to him last year. We ended up having to bring Garapolo back as a hedge and ultimately turn to party. But maybe we can develop him and use this off-season to get him some more reps. And I don't know if this offense makes you more accurate because you're going to have to be more accurate than, or consistently accurate than Trey Lance was before he got hurt last year.

But, you know, there's still a lot of things to potentially like about him. So I believe what they'll do is they'll say, look, Purdy's not going to be here until at least the start of the season, maybe longer. We're going to split reps between Lance and Darnold, see how they react. what we have. Basically, if one of them has to start the opener, it's the guy we think gives us the best chance to win. And I think one thing that people are missing here is that when they say, well, they're going to trade Tray Lance and admit their mistake. Yeah, eventually they're going to admit their mistake if it was a mistake. But they're not fielding offers

to like get back in the first round for Tray Lance. And I know it only takes one team. But if they trade Tray Lance now, I think it's for a three or something. And so I just don't think you have urgency to. You don't know about Purdy. You'd like another option. You'd like to see if you can develop them more because you do have a lot invested in them. You're not paying them a lot. And you can always move them, you know, a year from now if it goes the way you want it to

with Purdy and possibly if it does with Donald. So I think if someone called him and said, we will give you a two, like something they thought was more than me. Oh, a two, they take in a second. Yeah. Yeah, I think if someone calls and says, we'll give you a three for Tray Lance, they go a three. Well, let's see. We currently have 96 picks in the third round.

Not all these guys are going to make our team. I mean, I just don't think, I think I'd rather have a chance to, you know, develop of this offseason. Maybe they will. I don't even think they'll necessarily get offered a three right now. But listen, if he goes out and looks good in the preseason, and possibly early in the season, they could get a lot more for them a year from now. So you went to Cal, Aaron Rogers did,

but Aaron Rogers has gotten a little bit more indifferent and critical of the media over the last several years. And I said this on the show today. There's a lot of reports now that this thing won't get done, Jets and Packers, until after the draft. So Green Bay does have a need at Tide-in that's fairly urgent. They'll probably draft the Tide-in in the first round. They need another receiver, pretty thin and young,

receiver, they'll go that in the second round. But the roster is good. Not great, but it's good. It's not San Francisco. It's not Philadelphia. I don't think it's as good. Maybe as, you know, a Buffalo or, you know, the top teams in the AFC. But it's a good roster.

I believe that Aaron, if he just came out and just said, guys, I'm in for two years, minimum, it would be over. Then the Jets would be like, okay, we know it, you know it. But I said this today, and I've been critical of Aaron, but Aaron's too smart to not know that once you take the most money, you won't have the best roster. He took the money. He's too smart to think, yeah, two rookie receivers. I'm not going to work with them in the offseason. That'll work great. I honestly think that we all make choices on what matters to us.

You have a great family, great friends in your career. You have prioritized those, and they're all strong. Some people care about their career. Some people care about social life. Some want less stress. Aaron's made a decision, in my opinion, and winning second. What he wants is control over the media, over situations, over the Packers, that he could end all this bullshit.

He can end the drama, Mike. If he just said two years I'm in, I'll think about a third. Why doesn't he do that? Well, first of all, I've also made some bad decisions in terms of priorities, specifically continuing to root for Cal, which is, you know, no, and I joke. But, you know, charitably for Aaron, I would say this. He said he was thinking about retiring, you know, very seriously recently. That's what he, you know, will take him in his word.

I think it's better not to say I'm in for two years if you're not sure that you are. And sure, he could say, I've been for two years and, you know, by December be like, oh my, you know, this is terrible. I'm out of here. But maybe it's to his credit that he's not sure he's in for two years. And listen, I know from talking to my sources that the Jets understand that there's a scenario where he only plays one. And they are not telling the Packers, sorry, man.

You know, we take it or leave it. What they're saying to the Packers is, look, man, you know, if it. he comes and he plays one year, we give up all this, that seems kind of skewed. Is there a mechanism in this trade where if that happens, we get something back after he retires? And I think that's, you know, they consider that a reasonable request. So yeah, Aaron can add that if he just said, I'm in for two. But maybe it's to Aaron's credit that he's not saying that because he's just not sure. Your guess how long he would play with the Jets. I think it's too. You know, Aaron's career, first year as a starter in Green Bay, first year with Hackett.

It has taken him usually because I've been told he's not a big grinder in the offseason, like a Brady, a Peyton, or Russell Wilson, that Aaron's second year is usually the year he pops. Well, I don't think he wants to do a one walk off and be average. I think he wants to end. It's good for his legacy. It's good for money. It's good. I think he wants to have a viable year.

And I don't think his first year, frankly, is going to. be great. But he doesn't consider this year one. First of all, year one with Hackett and LaFleur was a whole new scheme. And that, I believe that was a legitimate adjustment. By the way, they got to the NFC championship game. He did not have a great statistical year, but they went 13 and 3, got to the UFC championship game. But I think the way that he and the Jets are thinking of this is this is essentially year four after a gap because it's Hackett and because it's that offense. And it's not like Hackett plus LaFleur, by the way. It's Hackett plus Sala, who's like, you run the offense. I'm, you know, I'll keep an eye on my specialty, which is defense. So if you

believe that Aaron and Hackett are now resuming a very fruitful partnership, the one consecutive MVP's their next two years together, and it's the Jets receivers and other players who are going to have to adjust to that. Aaron may not think it's he, Aaron probably thinks I'm going to just be rolling for the get-go, but going back to what you said earlier, just as he made a decision not to work with the new receivers a year ago, when clearly, as Patrick Mahomes could tell you, that was an important thing to do for winning. I think that's what you need to look at.

If this trade doesn't get done, draft weekend, you, you. You will probably hear, I suspect, hey, it turns out Aaron Rogers and Garrett Wilson and Alan Lazzard and, you know, all those Jets targets are working out in L.A. or somewhere and they're because there's nothing to stop them. You can't say he's tampering. And you can't say Garrett Wilson's tampering. So I think it is important to him to hit the ground running in year one and that that'll be the way we know. If there's no trade right away or the next couple weeks, I would expect we'll see him and those guys for the Jets start to work together. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Well, I'm very excited. I get to talk to Jeff Benedict after he finishes another absolutely consumable book. You know, he wrote The Dynasty, The Insight on the New England page. which is soon to be a documentary on Apple TV. It was tremendous. He co-wrote the book with my friend Armin Ketay and Tiger Woods.

And now the new book is LeBron. And it's the kind of in-depth reporting and context that you just don't get on certainly on shows like mine. But you don't even get in like a magazine article of some renowned. It's such quality reporting. And I thought I knew just about everything about LeBron. but the details and the digging here is so fun. You start the book, the topic is the decision, which for years I defended LeBron on.

David Stern argued with me. I'm like, listen, he gave millions of dollars to the boys and girls' club. Give me a break. And Stern, as you know, appalled is too strong, but didn't like it. So let's, you start the book there. Maverick Carter, who I know very well,

or a friend had some leverage in creating this. Let's go back to the decision. People may just remember the Jim Gray. Interview, it's quick. How did it land for LeBron? Talk about the genesis of it. Well, it's fantastic because LeBron had been, he was being courted for a year or longer by a handful of teams

that were pulling out all the stops to get them. And, you know, it was the question not just in the NBA, but the biggest question in sports that summer was where is LeBron going to go or is he going to stay in Cleveland? And the reason I decided to open there is because, first of all, I was able to get access to some information about that day and that decision that has never really come out before. And that's why I wanted to start the book in a car pulling out of the private airport, New York, making its way through the back roads of Greenwich to the home of the man who really, Mark Downey, who helped put this together with Maverick.

And I just thought this gives the reader the opportunity to feel like they're literally in the car with LeBron as he's in route to make a decision in a part of the country that most people have never been to. I mean, most Americans have never been to Greenwich, Connecticut. And in a way, it's a weird place when you think about it, why in the world would you choose Greenwich to make this announcement? It's Nix country, if anything. But even if you were going to go to the Nix, Greenwich is an odd place to go to do this. And so I wanted to go there with the reader because I just thought it allowed me to show so many things about LeBron at that moment in his life. And I just love the scenery of them getting out of the car in Greenwich at this estate, Maverick and Rich Paul, and they're flying so high in that moment.

They're so happy. They're so almost in a way there is a naivete about what's about to happen. And they're so loose. And then in a couple of hours, all hell breaks loose. It does. Take people listening now because there is so much depth to this book. you can give away a lot and not give away a third of it. But when did they realize something had gone poorly with the decision?

I think, you know, they started the sense that things aren't great immediately after the decision was announced and the initially SPN broadcast had concluded, meaning the live event with Jim Gray. And then LeBron had to do an interview with Michael Wilbon, who was in studio. and doing a remote interview with LeBron, who was still in Greenwich at the club. And the questions, one of the questions Will Bonn asked him was if he could see what was happening in Cleveland. They were already burning his jersey. And, but it's not until later that evening, before they've left Greenwich, though, to get on a private plane to go to Miami, they hung around for a while.

They actually went back to Dowley's house, and they were listening to music. and hanging out. And then Dan Gilbert's letter shows up on the website. And you're starting to go like, wow, like the New York Times puts up a story that's referring to the evil empire. And this is all happening in real time. And Twitter works now, right? Twitter's fairly new at this point. Yeah.

But it works. And the tweets are coming from all over the place, not just sports people, but people in entertainment, late night comedy. everybody's piling on. And so by the time LeBron and his inner circle are in the air to fly to Miami, they know it's bad. And I love how Rich Paul refers to the quietest flight he'd ever been on with LeBron and Maverick. So there was a sweepstakes, as you note, to get LeBron. The Knicks had an interesting pitch, but Miami's landed.

tell our audience why and they're and they're tact which is to me Pat Riley's one of the smartest guys in league history not a shock he hit the right notes yes yeah I love the reason I love the Knicks pitch is because it's so

New York and it's just so over the top and and so inappropriate in terms of what you need to lure LeBron to your team. LeBron had so much access to fame and glitz and glamour. That's not what he was looking for. And he wasn't looking for a billion dollars. He was looking for rings, championships.

And so New York does this thing where they hire a filmmaker. Who doesn't know anything about basketball? He didn't know the difference between a basketball and a golf ball. And so he goes out and brings in Jonathan Hawk, who knows how to make a sports documentary. And They have all the celebrities in New York City lined up from Harvey Weinstein to Reggie Jackson to Alec Baldwin. I mean, Robert De Niro, everybody wanted in this documentary. And they even got Donald Trump. They went up to Trump Tower and got Trump to sit for an interview. And everybody they interviewed is pitching LeBron on why he needs to come to New York.

To me, the best part of that whole story and the smartest thing they did was to go get Tony Soprano out of retirement and to bring him in. to do a sketch at the end of the film. And it's basically Gandalfini getting back in that role with Edie Falco. It was brilliant. And I told the story through the lens of Jonathan Hock, who shot the interview in Tony's apartment. And they pitch him. And it's basically literally the offer you can't refuse.

And LeBron thought it was funny because it was. It was clever. It was funny. But it wasn't right. And then Riley comes in. And Riley's last. And Riley brings in a bag of rings. And he puts him on the table.

And, you know, LeBron asks him what's in there and he dumps him out. And there is championship rings that he's won everywhere. And it's what LeBron wants. And he has this really important line to keep the main thing, the main thing. LeBron didn't know what that was in the moment. but Maverick knew what it was because he'd read Stephen R. Covey's book and certainly understood what Riley was saying. And the main thing in Miami with Pat Riley is winning championships. And he knew that that was the main thing for LeBron. And I just thought, wow, like these two

contrasts, the Knicks and the heat. So the Miami story is four years, two championships. I think the arc of many of our lives is the hardships come before the titles or the runs, right? We've all struggled in our life. LeBron's struggles are the struggles of the greatest basketball player ever. The decision dinged them a little bit. But Miami felt like it was going to work very quickly. You had the smart owner, Pat Riley, a young, brilliant young coach. you had Dee Wade, Haslam, the culture.

And then he loses to the Mavericks. And for the only time in his career, looked afraid on the court. That was a real turning point for LeBron. Talk about that. It's a huge turning point. I would say it's not really a disagreement with you, but I think the decision did more than ding him.

Because the ramification of the decision is he is the villain of American sports his first year in Miami. He's hated. And anyone who was in Cleveland, I was not there the night that LeBron returned to Cleveland, but I interviewed people who were. It was violent. I mean, it was scary.

People who were on that team said they were afraid. The security in the arena, people that were there to protect the Miami players said they had never seen or felt anything like that at an American sports event. That first year in Miami for LeBron, I think was different because LeBron likes to be liked. And he was hated that year.

And then on top of that, they were supposed to win and they didn't win. And I think that's what plunged LeBron into a dark period. The summer after losing to Dallas is the darkest period of LeBron's career for him personally. And it's really a moment of self-discovery where he's locked away in Miami. He doesn't want to talk to anybody, not family, not friends. He's listening to, you know, certain kinds of music. and really when he comes out of that, it's interesting when he comes out of that.

I just thought it was interesting that one of the first people he saw when he came out of that was Bono in Miami, who had come, you two was there touring, and he had some private time with Bono backstage. I just thought it was interesting because I was thinking to myself as a writer, Bono's probably one of the only people on the planet who could actually say in that moment, I've been through more than you.

I know what this is like. I've been in worse spots than you because I've been doing this longer. And I'm a world-renowned rock star, and I'm sure he didn't say those things to LeBron. But there aren't many people LeBron can get in a room with who could actually say, I've been to these places that you're in right now. And he comes out of that.

And Dwayne Wade has a big part of him coming out of that because that's when they have the conversation about this needs to be your team. It's sort of like it's okay to take over. You need to dominate. This is my city and my team of my town, but we're not going to win unless you take the reins. And boy, the next season, LeBron's the scariest player in the NBA. I mean, everyone's afraid of him.

You don't want to play this team and that guy. And I think the next three years, to me, those are the scary LeBron years. Let's go back to you talk about in the book. There's obviously great debate. LeBron now starts stacking up championships in Miami. And then the Michael Jordan stuff really starts to become a comp. Yeah. And nobody had really ever challenged Michael Jordan.

It was just Russell early, then Kareem, then magic. Then, you know, you kind of got 10 years to yourself as the greatest player ever. And all of a sudden, after the... the second title, people start talking about, wow, this guy is different. Yes. But in his early days in high school, Jeff, nobody talked about Michael Jordan. Their games were different. Their personalities are completely different.

One is much more hyper-aggressive, much more the score, not necessarily ever conciliatory or concerned about your feelings. LeBron's comp was not Michael, as you note. Yeah, it is because it's interesting. You referenced that high school years. One of my favorite scenes in this, well, I'm going to say two of them because they're kind of coupled. It's when Maverick goes back.

He leaves college after one year, right? Realizes he's not going to play in the NBA. Goes back to Akron to go to school and to work with LeBron and help LeBron and navigate those tenuous high school years coming up for him. And he starts coaching his AAU team. And they go to Chicago in the summer, and one of the guys from Jordan's gym who works with Michael Jordan, trains with him, approaches Maverick and invites him and LeBron to come to Michael's gym in Chicago. And they go.

Michael's not there, but they go. And they check it out. And it's like they've entered that sort of celestial space where Michael Jordan trains. It's a private place. Not anybody can go. And other NBA players who are active in the league go there to train and run. Remember, Michael's retired right now, but they go there. And one of the things that LeBron gets to do is he gets to scrimmage run with these NBA players,

guys like Antoine Walker, big time players, big bodies, playing with a teenager. And for the first time, the floor looks different to LeBron. It's a different floor. And that's why that chapter is called a different floor. It's the same dimensions of the. the floor that he plays on at St. Fies, except everything's different. The passing lanes are more narrow because the guys are so much bigger. Their arms are longer.

When they put their arms out, the routes to the basket just aren't there that he sees in high school games. It's all different for him. And that is a huge eye-opening experience for him. And one thing happens. He can't guard anybody in those scrimmages. They're too good. They're too fast. They're too big.

He can't guard them. But he can score against these guys, which is phenomenal. He can score buckets with some of the best NBA players and he's only in high school. That's really important. And then here's the second part. Later, they go back there. And they're there and they're about to leave and they go outside and Gordon pulls up in a red sports car and gets out. Now, at this moment, Michael knows he's coming out of retirement, but nobody else knows that.

He hasn't announced it yet. And so he gets out, the coolest athlete in the world gets out of the car and approaches LeBron. He knows who LeBron is. And LeBron certainly sees who he is. This is his idol. This is the guy whose posters are on his bedroom walls. it's the guy whose number he wears. And now they're in a conversation.

And Michael invites him back inside and they talk. And LeBron, Michael doesn't give him advice because Michael's not that kind of guy. But it doesn't matter. What he did give him was he gave him his cell phone number, which to me is a lot more important than advice because of what it says to LeBron. Michael doesn't give his phone number out to anybody. LeBron's now one of the few people in America who has Michael Jordan. his cell phone. And when he leaves Chicago that night, by the way, Colin, the next day is the

first day of school at St. Fee. Maverick's got to race him home because he's got to be in school the next day. And in his pocket, he's got Michael Jordan's phone number and he wrote in his journal about that and about how cool that experience was. And to me, what did Michael think of LeBron in that moment? Did he really think that LeBron was actually going to threaten him? as the potential greatest player of all time? I don't know. Probably not because he was still a kid. And he was very encouraging to him at that moment. But obviously, as time goes on and it doesn't take long,

by the time you get to game five against Detroit, you know, like, this guy is actually that guy. Like, he is the future. He is that good. And there isn't anyone else like him. And so I just think the Michael Jordan origin stories with LeBron, they're real, and there's some of the most interesting parts of LeBron's story. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I'm really intrigued with this Memphis matchup. It makes a lot of sense for the Lakers on a couple of different levels. Memphis Grizzlies are a team that play a lot of guys that typically don't shoot very well.

Right. John Morant, you can go underneath screens. Dylan Brooks has been shooting well for a couple of weeks, but he's a guy that I guarantee you, Darwin, is going to dare to shoot. And then obviously in the front court with Stephen Adams out with Brandon Clark out, you're going to be looking at Xavier Tillman or Jaron Jackson there. The Darwin Ham loves to dare people to shoot.

And I think this is a series that actually bodes well for the Lakers there. And then on the other end of the floor, who is the best surgical matchup hunting player in probably the history of the NBA, LeBron James. And so he's going to be calling up John Morant to every single conceivable action. He's going to be doing everything in his power to get Dylan Brooks office. of him or to get Anthony Davis into favorable matchups. And obviously, there's a long road ahead.

If they win, I think they're going to face the Warriors in round two. If they win that, there's a very good chance they're going to play Phoenix in round three. If they win that, there's a very good chance you're going to get Boston or Milwaukee at the end of that. So it's a very long road. It's a lot to put on LeBron James and Anthony Davis

physically. But here's the deal. You made it to the playoffs, ish. And you're probably going to be a slight favorite in round one. I'd call that a resounding victory compared to where we were before the deadline? Well, the other thing is Memphis isn't Cleveland Young or OKC or Houston Young, but Stephen Adams is one of the few guys with some playoff experience and he's out. So Memphis is fairly young. And I always felt this year that they're one of those teams built for the regular season because they play hard and they have depth.

and you can win a lot of games in this league off playing hard and having 10 guys. It doesn't matter nearly as much. So now they get smaller without Stephen Adams, plays right into Anthony Davis's hands. And he's had the best two-week stretch, arguably since he's been a Laker. If you take out the bubble, he's been completely dominating. Again, he didn't play particularly well today in terms of total points. But down the stretch, he had a couple of key baskets.

So I think you get a Memphis team that's smaller, had injuries, young. And let's be honest, the John Morant stuff, still not great. So if you say to me, okay, there's a team in the playoffs that could be a little volatile of all of them. And I'd be like, Clippers, because of Kauai, you never know if he's going to play. Westbrook. They had a fight on their bench. So like, Clippers feel very volatile to me.

And I think Memphis, as a young, one of the younger playoff teams, Cleveland in the East is very young. But Cleveland doesn't feel immature. Everybody in Cleveland knows exactly what they are and what they do. Donovan Mitchell has really clarified their offense. He takes the last big shot and everybody knows it. Mobley's your big. He's your young guy, but he knows late in games.

They all step aside for Donovan Mitchell. Memphis has some egos. They're chatty. I think the Lakers win that series. I really do. And I think Anthony Davis is going to have a fantastic series without Stephen Adams. Memphis is very dangerous because they have guys that are capable of knocking down shots. Like here's the thing.

If John Moraine, like we learned from last year's playoffs. Like Desmond Bain, really good, interesting player, excellent shooter, good defensive player, can do some slashing. But he really struggled to beat people off the dribble last year in the playoffs. That's a concern. The playoffs in general will take your weakness and shine the biggest. magnifying glass. It's what the playoffs do. The same thing with John Morant. It's, hey, yeah, you knock down, pull-up threes at 30% this year. That's great. We are going to dare you to take

that this year to the point where we're going to actually try to get into your head by making you think you can't do it. That's the way that these, especially these veteran playoff teams, try to attack you and make you feel uncomfortable, make you lack confidence. And at the end of the day, like it all comes down to the physical side of things like LeBron James has to hold up. Anthony Davis has to hold up. But over the course of a playoff series, the team that wins is usually the team that generates higher quality shots in the half court. Who do you trust more to get stops in the half court for seven games? LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves, or, you know, John Morant, Desmond Bain, Dylan, Brooks, and Jared Jackson. And then on the

flip side of that, when Memphis has to score against them, I just think, I just think the Lakers are going to get better quality shots over the course of the series. Wouldn't be surprised if Memphis jumped up to a 1-0 lead or a 2-1 lead. But I think as the series progresses, the older, more talented team in the Lakers is in the best shape. I want to say this, though. I am a big believer in what Golden State does. But yes, Andrew Wiggins is back.

However, he's a rhythm player who has not played really intense competitive basketball for a while. Had they fallen to seven and drawn that Memphis matchup, I think Memphis would have beat them. That's how much I view the importance of getting Andrew Wiggins up to speed. So it is so critically important that they get this series against Sacramento, a team who's very good and very offensively skilled as an excellent home court advantage, but they are not the biggest and most athletic team in the world.

So Golden State, in their lack of athleticism, will have less of a factor to play in that particular series. And I don't know if you noticed, but Golden State's actually a minus 200 favorite to win that series. That's a pretty significant favorite. If they get out of that series, that buys you from now three additional weeks to get Andrew Wiggins up to speed for a potential matchup with Memphis or L.A. to massive teams that are incredibly athletic and big. And at that point, I'd feel better about that.

Well, and Gary Payton, just the other night got extended minutes. So now Gary Payton, you can put him on for a good 16 minutes a night. Just put him on Deerrin Fox. And then put Clay Thompson, D. Vincenzo. We've talked about this. Golden State's absurdly deep in the back court and very thin in the front court. But Deerne Fox is their fourth quarter guy. I think he's the best guard in the NBA in the fourth quarter this year in terms of what they call crucial points.

So, you know, I saw the other night Peyton played like 18, 20 minutes. And I'm like, that's exactly what they wanted. So Wiggins isn't ready to go at that level. And they'll have to massage that a little because Cominguez finally now playing real minutes. And they're going to take him away. So that's a weird, you know, confluence of events where it's like we need Wiggins desperately. But, you know, Cominguez actually started to put log in 18, 20, 24 minutes and been productive. So now you've got to peel him back.

So you got to massage that in the locker room. And the chemistry has been weird with the Warriors this year since the Dremont, Jordan Poole inflammation. But I like their matchup in the series. He'd throw a lot of bodies at Fox. You know, Golden State will have to win a road game. But this is almost, you know, it's a bus ride. And I also think this. They'll get the whistle.

They know how to manipulate officials. They know how to do the psychological manipulation. I mean, Sacramento is like the little brother down the road to the dynasty. And you can see in spots them being a little overwhelmed. and the Warriors, you know, trash talking, getting in their head and getting the favorable whistle, the dynasty does in the first round my entire life. I don't think the league is rigged, but I do think veteran teams manipulate officiating in the playoffs where referees tend to swallow the whistle.

You're not going to get that high-octane offense that draws all those fouls. The Warriors can slow it down, speed it up, they'll get the whistle. So I think it's one of these series. It's a really good series for Golden State. There were some real worrisome matchups. Even the Lakers size could be a huge problem. I think they lucked out. Well, again, the Warriors can beat somebody with size.

They just need Andrew Wiggins. Like when I say I would have picked Memphis to win in the first round, that's 100% in Andrew Wiggins' take. It's all associated with the fact that he's so imperative to their athletic ceiling that they need to compete in a series against that team, giving them an extra three weeks from now to get there. That's vitally important. The Sacramento, this is a Gary Payton series, in my opinion.

And the main reason why is because Sacramento has killed teams all season long with a simple combination of Deer and Fox and DeMontosabonis. And what they do with their dribble handoffs and the problem it presents for teams because you let Deer and Fox get downhill or if you switch it, Sabonis is one of the best players in the line. league at beating switches to the basket. And if you draw as double teams, he's an excellent passer. So what I like about the Golden State matchup in that series is Draymond Green and Gary Payton, I couldn't, I couldn't conceive possibly mentally a better duo to potentially

handle those two guys. And this is, again, what an attribute, and this is why I actually love this move from the deadline. What an incredible attribute to have as a coach, a weapon in your pocket to be able to deploy Gary Payton on the other team's best guard, and to know he's going to be able to hold that in check. I don't know if you noticed this the other night, but the Warriors won a game against Oklahoma City, a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. You might have been skiing,

but it was a tough fought game against Oklahoma City. And in the fourth quarter of that game, Gary Payton shut down Shakehildos Alexander, who's one of the best guards in this league. He had a couple of buckets on switches and he drew one foul. But for the most part, Gary Payton shut him down. And it was how Golden State pulled out. that game. He is one of the best guards in the league to guard this specific type of matchup,

partnering that with Draymond Green. I love this matchup for the Warriors. I would pick them to win in no more than six games, but I'm leaning towards five. And for all the hoops tonight listeners out there, we're going to do a full breakdown of this series within the next couple of days where we'll really dive into the X's and O's. But I'm leaning towards picking the Warriors in five or six. Yeah, I think I would take the Warriors in six. Sons four against the Clippers five. This again, really plays in the Phoenix's hand. So, you know, Kevin Durant's gotten several games off.

So they're sitting him. And here you have an inflamed bench situation where Plumley gets into a fight. You're already asking Ty Lou, like, what do you do with Westbrook now? He's great in regular season production. Okay, now we get into situational basketball. What do I do? Paul George isn't available. He would be huge in this series to defend.

Kevin Durant. So now I've got a little bit of inflammation. How do I use Westbrook, who's not been a great postseason player? What do I do with the Kevin Durant matchup? Like Memphis, there's some depth here, but there's a lot of, to me, this could not, in a weird way, Kevin Durant, between getting hurt and warmups and now resting for the last couple of games, you're getting the most rested, healthiest Kevin Durant in like years.

and I think Phoenix is going to be a handful for the Clippers. I love Phoenix here. Yeah, you know, I'm really low on the Clippers in general, Colin. I don't know how many times we have to go into the season with everybody preaching that they're one of the favorites for them to not fulfill that for us to finally learn our lessons. They don't have good rim protection. They don't have good playmaking.

And that makes, that's two vitally important things that you have to succeed in the playoffs. You know, this is what the Clippers are. They are a team with a bunch of wings that are wings in name only that don't move as well as they used to. I got a lot of guys like Marcus Morris and Nick Batum and Robert Covington, guys that once upon a time would have been vital important playoff pieces, but they're just not that anymore. Covington's out of the rotation. Marcus Morris has been hurt. But Toom's okay. You know, but the problem is without Paul George, they simply do not have enough shot creation.

Right. There's three guys on the team that can create their own shot. Kauai Leonard, Russell Westbrook, and Norman Powell. And Norman Powell runs hot and cold. I mean, obviously he destroyed the Lakers the other day, but he runs hot and cold. Russell Westbrook, the game has to be going a very specific type of way for him to have impact. And as good as Kauai Leonard is, and he's made strides as a playmaker. He's a pull-up shot maker.

Like he doesn't pressure the rim super well, and he's not the best passer in the world. So it's like, yeah, he'll get you his 30 by knocking down his pull-up jump shots, but he's not a guy that can really carry an offense over the course of a game. And so what they really are is a team that doesn't have a lot of shot creation. They're a good team, but I don't think they have very. nearly the playoff ceiling they need without Paul George. I think the sons are going to make quick work of them. Yeah.

Well, and also the sons are a team between Durant's health and Chris Paul's age. He had a great game about a week ago. But like he kind of just gave you, hey, I'm not done yet. I'm fine. I'm good here. But they got a huge break because that's a team. Boston, I feel a little bit with Tatum sometimes and Robert Williams Health and Marcus smart.

like they don't need to play together. Like, we know the Celtics are fine. They've been playing together now for years. They need time off. You know, Tatum needs rest. I feel that way with Phoenix. Like Chris Paul and Durant, what they need is like five days off those legs going into a playoff series.

So I'm with you. Phoenix hasn't lost yet with Durant on the floor. I mean, it's it. Not a single game. And it looks really good. You know, that's because Kevin's a high functioning player. and Chris Paul is one of the smartest guys in the league. And that's where I think sometimes with Aiton, they've been frustrated.

Monty's been frustrated. Chris has. He, I think sometimes Chris Paul's really demanding on his bigs. Like he's really hard on them. And so like everywhere he goes, the team gets better and the big doesn't like him. But I think Kevin Durant's a unique, I wouldn't call him a big, but a unique four that plays Is it such a high level of basketball, like really gets the game? I just think him and Chris are going to be magic.

And I don't think any, I really don't, you know, we'll see with Denver. Denver still, believe it or not, despite they've been good for several years, they're still a pretty young team. They don't have a lot of playoff success. So I think Phoenix is going to roll. What did you make of the Dallas punting those last two games of the season? I think I was reading some Dallas media reports. it's a it's a s show it's a mess well you know they hired a guy from nike who's never been really a GM

but he was in the basketball division very smart guy a relationship guy and now they put him in charge of running you know basketball um ops and you know i like mark cuban i think he's really smart he tends to be what i would call a tech optimist he has so much confidence in his um intelligence that he takes big swings and he hits, you know, his pharmaceutical companies, brilliant. I understood, I mean, it was funny. When they went and got Kyrie Irving, I applauded it. I said, I like the swing.

This is going to be an atrocious defensive team. These are two of the worst. I mean, Kyrie is an abysmal defensive player. And so when people kind of embrace this as a championship team, I'm like, guys, the Warriors and Celtics were the two best defensive teams in the league. Like, you can't win that way. You can't just score your way. You can't have to score 126 a night.

It just doesn't work that way in this sport. And I think people think it's that. And then if you've ever had a buddy who goes and plays in the NBA, it's like, man, they grind you. There's a lot of contact in this league. In the playoffs, it doubles down on it. That's why, you know, Kyrie preimposed LeBron, he gets pushed around.

It was like LeBron was a little bit of a bodyguard. And you have to surround Kyrie. with certain elements. I also think increasingly, Luke is a moody player, and he's going to be really hard to find the Robin. You know, we talked about this.

The hardest thing in basketball is to find the Janus that wants a franchise player. So the bucks have done it twice. Lou Alcindor and Janus. They got a championship one back in 1971, right? Milwaukee.

And they got one with Janus. It's not a great free agent hub. So you have to kind of build a culture and then eventually, Kareem, like, I want to go west, he did. And so I think when Luca came into the league, there was this sense is he could pair him with a lot. So they try the slasher, Porzingis.

They don't like each other. And then they try Jalen Brunson. And they're like, well, they don't really fit. Well, Jalen's been like an MVP guard play in New York. Well, let's try Kyrie. Well, now, Kyrie doesn't perfectly work for him. We're falling in love with this great, hyper-offensive player. Moody, difficult, needs ball, won't defend. You know, is he going to end up

Carmelo Anthony, where he has this early success in Denver and never really then galvanizes people. I mean, you start looking at the great players of all time. Everybody needed a running mate. Like magic galvanized people, LeBron galvanized people. Michael didn't, but he found a running mate. Right? Like some guys don't do that, but they find a guy. Tim Duncan finds his Tony Parker. Steph finds his clay. Like, it's way harder to find a two because it's not just the player. It's the

temperament. McHale was the college, you wouldn't remember this because you're young. He led the nation in rebounding. He was known as a defensive guy that rebounded at Minnesota and he came to the NBA with all these weird moves and he was super long. Kind of an unorthodox looking

score, but he was a great rebounder, a shot blocker in college and Byrd was the score. Well, Michael could have scored more. But he's like, okay, I'm going to be part of this. Bosch in Miami. I want to be part of this. Kevin Love and Cleveland with LeBron.

I want to be part of it. Like, Luca's going to make you feel small. He's not going to help you on the defense event. He's not going to, you're going to get the ball late in the shot clock with him. I think Luke is harder to play with than people think. And you say, well, Michael was difficult. But Michael got the right coach. also found a very willing Robin.

And then he had high functioning players. Curran Paxson became GMs. Like they knew how to play with Michael. They understood Michael was the guy. Those bull teams had really hype. BJ Armstrong becomes a power agent. Like, you had a lot of guys around Michael that knew how to play the game

and appeal to his senses and his alpha. That's hard. Like that Lucas is going to be hard. to play with, and I think we have to come to terms with it. He's entering a very important phase of his basketball development because he's starting to just slightly plateau a little bit. And, you know, I love the way you broke it down. Like, you have to be willing to buy into this larger concept of the team.

Because, for instance, you can break it down on a simple math level. Okay, Luca, high pick and roll is worth, you know, 1.2 points per possession. Therefore, if we run it 100 times in a game, and we're going to score 120 points. That's great. You know what I mean? But there is a basketball team is a living organism

and all of the pieces fit together. And like it would behoove Luca to start to learn how to adjust his game to fit better with others because of the specific fact that he will be on more talented teams as time go along. This has worked. He went to the Western Conference finals last year. I'm not trying to criticize him overall in terms of what he's capable of. But the reality is, is like, hey, if you, you know, give the ball to Kyra,

and maybe instead of running a high pick and roll where you dribble the air out of the basketball for 17 seconds, maybe you run down the floor and come off of a wide screen and use that as a dribble handoff and get downhill. You can use your same skill set, that same vision, that same size and strength and shot making ability more within the flow of what a team can do as a unit together

and then embracing getting in shape to be able to be a more of an impact player defensively. I think, look, here's the thing. The pouting, I absolutely, believe that has a negative effect on the psyche of a basketball team. When they see their star constantly bitching and moaning at the refs. And when he's constantly not running back on defense and you can tell his head is not in it. Again, I loved how you brought up Carmelo Anthony because that's such an interesting comp to me.

I mean, they're obviously different positions. But in everybody said they love Carmelo, man, he gave you, it was about Carmelo getting his shot. He wouldn't even adjust to a three point shot. like he was bizarrely rigid in his style of play. A hundred percent. Like they're not the same player, obviously. It's more just relative to the rest of the league and the way his progression went. Like, like LeBron was a little bit better than Carmelo.

And over the years, LeBron kept getting better and Mello just kind of stayed the same. I mean, he got he got moderately better in some areas of his offensive skill set, but he never became an impact defensive player. He never became a top tier playmaker. He never evolved in those other areas of his game. and was threatened and was threatened by yes yes and i think lucca at times feels a little threatened first of all he's from outside of the country so players like that i mean you have to ingratiate yourself to a new culture and a new country that's really difficult the other thing jason is if you look at dirk novitsky in dallas probably as beloved a player as the league's had

everybody loved dirk not everybody loves luka he's got a much more temperamental, moody personality. So he's naturally going to create some disharmony in the room. He's just a moody guy. Dirk wasn't. So the Mavericks multiple times switched pieces with Dirk. Almost everything worked with Dirk. It just didn't get a championship.

But like he didn't have, there was no like clashes of culture. Everybody liked Dirk. Nobody likes Luka. Like it's a big difference. I think Luke is a better player. But at this point, somebody said this years ago to me. They're like, in football, half time, defense goes to the right, offense goes to the left. In baseball, a third of the teams in the bullpen.

It's 13 dudes on the bench, every practice, on that plane. Like if one guy's music's too loud on the plane, now you have headphones now, but years ago, it's like one guy can ruin an NBA locker room. And if the star is difficult, it's a bad locker room. I think the Mabs are a bit of an S show right now. And I think Luca, I mean, again, they're going to put the PR people to work in Dallas. It's all good. Luca's going to love it.

But when you watch him play, he aggravates me at times with his barking to the officials, like on every play. It's such a love-hate relationship for me because as a basketball fan, there's so many things with Luca that I'm drawn to. Like, he is one of the best players that I've ever seen in terms of beating people off the dribble without an athletic advantage, which is so hard to do. It's like, it's kind of the Austin Reeves thing. Like, it's all, it's all misdirection. And, like, having every move irrevocably attached to a counter move that's equally as

effective and never telegraphing your moves. And like, Luca, there's so much. many things that I love about his game and I hate watching him because of his approach, not only with the heliocentric, you know, just dribble the air out of the basketball every time, but also with the attitude stuff. And again, it's a crossroads. He's either going to be the Carmelo of this era or he's going to be an all-time great. And, you know, what, you know, what's interesting is if you would ask everybody two years ago, you know, or all of you just say last year during the Western Conference finals, who were the two best players, you know,

that you'd want for the next 10 years. It'd be Janice and Luca and he'd be pretty close, right? Like be neck and neck with a slight edge to Janus. I hope it doesn't end up being one of those situations where Janus just dramatically separates himself because Luca plateaus. That's a problem potentially. Well, I mean, listen, LeBron was more physically gifted than Carmelo. But as they drifted apart, a lot of it was LeBron got along with more players, could play with more players, was more amenable to different styles. I mean, Miami had no size. He and Wade were duplication.

He never liked Mario Chalmers. I mean, it was like they threw him with Ray Allen's and Shane Badiys and Mike Miller's. And LeBron made it work. At the time, Spolster was a kid coach. And LeBron made it work. And then he goes to Cleveland again. And he makes it work. And he goes to Los Angeles.

And he makes it work. If you give LeBron, I mean, J.R. Smith was fun. But I think people forget, he and LeBron were pretty good together. And J.R. Smith was weird and, you know, a little eccentric. and some viewed as difficult, kind of an ISO act, you know, super talented. LeBron made it work. LeBron and him were close, despite that one timeout, right, that they called. So, and I think Janus sort of is amenable to a lot of different teammates and players.

Luca so far isn't. Like, I mean, look at they just bring in Jay Crowder and then Joe Ingalls and Drew Holliday. And Chris Middleton was like, they stole him, I think, from like. like Detroit, he's worked with all of them. He works with everybody. And Brooke Lopez, another big, he's not threatened at all. Like, it matters a lot. And it's just like, I always felt Carmelho was threatened.

Luca feels a little threatened. Janus never does. LeBron never has. I mean, God, he goes into Miami. It's De Wade City. And it's like, all right, let's go for it. I mean, he could have picked anywhere to go, right? He goes to the probably the single most beloved player in any city.

I'll go to your city. I mean, that was rife with issues. Could you have seen Carmelo going down there and making it work? His insecurities would have just flourished. So I, I'm not anti-Luca, but it's just like we've got to have, I think we're moving to the second phase, which is, okay, not all these issues are Carmelo Anthony's teammates. Summer Carmel. Make sure to check out the Draymond Green show.

I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Draymond Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume podcast network. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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