The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Most Interesting NFL Prospect, NFL Draft Success, Psych 101 On Aaron Rodgers

Episode Date: March 2, 2024

Colin’s top takes of the week! Colin explains how the Warriors have finally found their way and could be very dangerous in the playoffs (3:00). He goes behind the scenes at the NFL combine (8:00) and explains why Michigan quarterback J.J. McCarthy is the most interesting prospect in the NFL draft. (10:30) John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” joins Colin to break down the secret sauce behind Green Bay’s drafting formula and why they’ve been so successful (24:30), and why we see a competitive mentality in football that’s lacking in some other sports (32:00). Legendary sports writer Ian O’Connor joins Colin to talk about his new book profiling Aaron Rodgers, and he and Colin do a deep dive into Aaron’s psychology (46:30), and why his abrasive public profile doesn’t reflect how he’s viewed in the locker room (51:00).   (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule. of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The volume. Get in on the action with the Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NBA. New customers who deposit $5 or more can get a no-sweat bet up to $1,000 back in bonus bets. How cool of a deal is that? All you have to do is download the draft

King Sportsbook app now takes 90 seconds and use the code Colin. C-O-L-I-N. This is the best deal you're going to find. New customers, it's a no-swet bet up to $1,000 if your first bet loses. How cool is that? Only at Draft King Sportsbook code is Colin. The crown is yours. Gambling problem?

Call 1-800 gambler. Or in West Virginia, visit 1-800 gambler.net. In New York, call 877.7. 8 Hope NY or text Hope N. Y. 467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas, 21 and over, age varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. One no-sweat bet per new customer. Issued as one bonus bet based on amount of initial losing bet. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash promos for deposit wagering and eligible

eligibility restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. There's two things in the NBA kind of roll my eyes at. Everybody talks about how mobility works. No, it doesn't. It worked for LeBron. It worked for LeBron when he went to Miami. He got two titles. It worked for in Cleveland.

He got a title. And it worked for Kevin Love, who joined LeBron. And Chris Bosch, who joined LeBron in Miami. And Anthony Davis, who joined LeBron in Los Angeles. Mobility isn't how you build championship. That's not how it works. It worked for LeBron in three places. Okay, going to Miami, coming back to Cleveland, going to Los Angeles.

It hasn't worked for Kevin Durant. Other than one time, he goes to the Warriors. Since then, Brooklyn didn't work. Phoenix, a bit disappointing. So the mobility thing, you know, that's not winning titles. San Antonio mostly had a core group. Golden State. They won before KD.

They won a title after KD. You know, Boston gets Drew Holley. but that team for years was built around Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, and Marcus Smart. Now, I like the upgraded Drew Holiday, but there are two core guys are Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. So I think, you know, mobility is something we talk about all the time in the NBA, and I just sort of roll my eyes. The other thing I kind of, you know, people talked about small ball. It worked for the Warriors because they had the three best shooting players, the best shooting backcourt tandem ever. Jerry West, Gail Goodrich, for most of my life, was the best

shooting back court ever, and then, supplanted by Clay Thompson and Steph Curry. And then they had Kevin Durant. Yeah, they had the three best shooters of all time playing together. And they went and got Bogot at one point. They got Kevin Durant. They weren't that small. There were small ball lineups that worked for them, but it doesn't work now. They're pivoting off it by getting, you know, Loonie, Trayvon Luni has size, Sarich has size, Kaminga's long, Jackson Davis is long, he's kind of a forward center, six nine, six nine and a half. So they're just, they're not, they just more formidable in the front court than before. So small ball worked because really the Warriors had unique players, a wing in Draymond who can defend big.

and Steph and Clay the best shooting back court ever. That's your small ball. People try to duplicate it. It didn't equal titles. And mobility doesn't really work. It worked with LeBron several times. I think the Warriors are really dangerous. I really do.

I think they've won seven straight road games. They have a nice mix of young and old, and they have one of the highest IQ. They have probably the smartest team in the league right now between Chris Paul, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Steve Kerr, Draymond Green, you've got, I mean, you've got a lot of games. You've got a lot of games with those guys. And that's why I would take them head to head over an OKC,

even though OKC is built for the regular season. The regular season is, it is a complete marathon. And, you know, for older teams who are doing load management, you know, I mean, like LeBron James has a great fourth quarter, you know, against the Clifference. he would prefer not to play the following night. He took the Celtic game off with Anthony Davis. These old guys picked their spots.

Young guys get injured less and they heal faster. So I think the Warriors are going to be a real team. And it's a nice mix of old and new. And I really like watching them play. It is, you know, the other thing about the three-point shot, which I think is overstated, I think so much of analytics in baseball and in the NBA, is based on regular season games.

And, you know, these are long. You play the averages. Analytics are averages over the course of time. But when you get into playoff basketball or playoff baseball, you just got to get outs. You go into a series. You're going to bring starters on three days rest. You're going to use them in late innings, a starter if you have to win a game six or a game seven. So the analytics go out the door.

You manage differently. You use your bullpen differently. You use starters differently. on fewer days rest. And in basketball, playoff basketball becomes very situational. It becomes very much about get a basket. That's why Kauai Leonard has been, when he's healthy, a very good playoff performer. Get a stop, get a basket. Doesn't have to be a three. And so I think this warrior team is obviously going to rely a large part on Steph Curry hitting threes. But they've got a lot of guys that can get you two now. Kaminga is a guy that's really good around the 10. They've got

size, they don't have to shoot the ball as well. Pods is a nice rookie. He's the next clay, but it can be a little bit of a slasher, which I like. I don't think you have to rely on threes, and I think small ball was overstated just due to unique generationally gifted players for the Warriors that other teams' rosters couldn't duplicate. I think the NFL Combine this week, let's talk about that. The Combine really isn't about the measurables and the performance. What it really is, is a chance for general managers and personnel people in the NFL to get together. And a lot of late nights, a lot of beers, a lot of cocktails. And it's like they say a lot of business gets done on the golf course.

A lot of stuff gets done at the combine. I thought my guess was that Justin Fields would be moved from the Bears to Atlanta around the combine, that you just, you know, you get a couple beers, guys sit down. And what my guess, the way Justin Fields would work is that, yeah, I don't know exactly what you do. But like the Bears have the ninth pick. Atlanta's got the eighth pick. Maybe you swap those in a third rounder. Something like that feels reasonable.

So the Bears move up one slot and get a third rounder. That feels like something you can do for Justin Fields. I don't think he's going to be a superstar in Atlanta. But I do think you can argue he'll be the most talented quarterback in the NFC South, where he's just not. He's not as good as Jared Goff, and I don't think he at this point is trending to be nearly as good as Jordan Love.

So if Kirk Cousins comes back for two years, Kirk Cousins right now is a more efficient quarterback than Justin Fields. And so he would be the fourth most reliable quarterback in the division. That's not a good place for him. I think it's a much better place for him to go to Atlanta where, you know, Baker and Derek Carr are, you know, they can win a lot of games,

especially Baker. He's won a playoff game. You know, he's a playoff quarterback in the AFC and the NFC, but in terms of overall size and talent, whip, arm, you know, Justin's a pretty special player. So the combine to me, and we sent John Middlokov there for the volume, the combine's really a relationship. It's like a camp for football grownups where you get all the GMs

and the personnel people and they screw around, they have steak dinners, and you get a lot of business done. I don't care much about the players testing. You know, it's like these personal workouts and testing. I do think, you know, there's a trend over the last several years that quarterbacks don't throw at this thing. I think every draft has a really interesting player. I mean, I think without question, everybody knows it's good wide receiver, good offensive tackle

class, really good, three or four really high-end receivers, three or four really good offensive tackles. You've got to have six offensive tackles taken in the first round. That's a huge number. The quarterbacks, there's a lot of talent. But I think the most interesting player in the draft is going to be J.J. McCarthy for Michigan, who had a great coach, a great old line, a great run game, and a great defense in a conference, frankly, that's kind of Ohio State and everybody else outside of Michigan.

I mean, that's about the only team Michigan face that has equal talent. In the SEC, even though Alabama can be great, there's Georgia, there's LSU, there's a lot of teams that can stack up athletically, three or four teams at the top. Ohio State and Michigan just look different than everybody else, and McCarthy benefited from that. Now, he won a lot of games, but they didn't really rely on him. He didn't throw many touchdown passes. His biggest games were often against, I mean, he had, I think it was half of his

touchdown passes against three teams, all of them awful. East Carolina, Michigan State, and Indiana. He had half of his touchdown totals. And he only had one game with three touchdown passes, I believe. Panics had 10. Bow Nicks had seven. I think he had one game. with either was it 300 yards passing or three touchdown passes.

My big concern is he's really slender. And let me give an example. So I've used this before, is that Aaron Rogers and I are the same height. And I've seen Aaron a couple times up close. He doesn't look thick. He weighs 225 pounds. I'm the same height and I weigh 195. I work out every day.

I'm in pretty good shape. You would view me a slender. If you looked at Aaron, you would view him. him as sort of slender. He carries 30 pounds more than me at the same height. Chest, shoulders, but it's that thickness. Years ago, I asked somebody about Aaron. I said, he doesn't look that big. And this person said, look at his caps, look at his butt, look at his shoulders, look at his wrists. There's a difference. When Johnny Mansell came into the league, he just didn't have the size and the shoulders, the butt, the hips, the wrist. He just wasn't big enough. And so I look at J.J. McCarthy,

and he's 6-3, so he is taller than Aaron Rogers by an inch and a half, and he weighs 20 to 23 pounds less. That is, that's noticeable to me. He comes across his slender. And, you know, it's somebody, an NFL executive said he looks like a stretched out Bryce Young. And I never thought of that. But in the context of body types, it kind of matches. And so I think McCarthy is fascinating.

I know two people who I really like in the NFL executives, think he's a Hammondegger. Just don't really see it. I know somebody else, Randy Mueller, a former executive in the league, works for the athletic now, really likes J.J. McCarthy. Obviously, Jim Harbaugh loves him. He's rooting for his guys. I don't know quite what to make him. Now, I didn't like Zach Wilson of the Jets out of college.

I like J.J. McCarthy more. I think he throws a better ball and a more consistent ball. You know, I didn't like Johnny Mansell out of college. I think J.J. McCarthy's a much, much better prospect. I didn't like Tebow at all to college, obviously. I mean, Tebow couldn't throw a consistent NFL football. It's not like I don't think he has talent. I do think JJ has talent.

But the body type, it's just, it's a completely different sport. I mean, the NFL, I remember when Johnny Mansell came into the league, and he was a runaround guy, gave Alabama's great defenses, all sorts of fits. And I think it was a preseason game. He's playing for Cleveland. I think they played Washington. Is that the one where he gave somebody the finger? And he rolled out.

And, you know, he thought I'm going to get around this. defensive end, and he could not outrun a defensive end in the NFL. And in that moment, I'm like, yep, not going to work because his game is movement. It's just not going to work. Lamar Jackson moves. You can't stop him. Michael Vic moves. Steve Young moved. They got around the corner. So a lot of times, you know, you play in college, high school and college, and what works for you does not work, does not translate to the NFL. So I'm just fascinated with J.J. McCarthy to see if it does. I just don't quite see it. Now, you'd say, Colin, you didn't see C.J. Stroud. No. I said Lance Zerline, who works at NFL.com, a draft analyst, he said Jared Goff was his comp.

And I said probably 10 times on the air, that's a good comp. Out of college, I didn't see a lot of juice with Jared Goff, but I thought he threw a beautiful ball from the pocket. I didn't see a lot of juice until the Georgia game on CJ Stroud, but he throws a beautiful ball out of the pocket. And Zerline was on the herd yesterday on FS1 and talked about that, that people give him crap for that. But if you go look at Jared Goff's second year numbers and C.J. Stroud's first year numbers, CJ got a great first coach. Jared Goff didn't. They're very similar. So J.J. McCarthy is going to be really, really interesting to me. You know, like this was the best Michigan team, perhaps ever, and the best team in college football, I thought significantly with a great O line and a really

powerful run game and a great coach. Very Alabama-like. If you start looking at all these Alabama quarterbacks. The Bryce Youngs and the Tua's, you know, they looked Mac Jones, boy, did we really like them out of college, and then you get to the NFL behind an average offensive line, and you don't really have a number one receiver. That's what J.J. McCarthy feels like to me. The great coach, the great O'line, the great run game, the great defense support, playing with a lead, getting very good field position, just like Tua and Mac Jones. And Alabama quarterbacks, time and time again. Then they get into the NFL and they trail and they don't have a good offensive line and they're moving and J.J. McCarthy weighs 6, 3, 203 pounds and he probably

needs 22 pounds more with that size. So we'll see. He is to me the most interesting player in the first round. You know, I love, you know, I like poking people in the ribs from time to time. And, you know, whatever I, you know, hear people say, if I say anything about politics, stay in your lane, stick to sports. It's funny that people who are telling me that don't stick to their job, mortgage, broker, banker, school teacher. Everybody gets an opinion except sports guy. But, you know, I've been in the market since 1989, the stock market. My dad was a stock market investor. Two of my best friends, three of my best friends are in the market. If I didn't do this, probably something I would do, you know, be a broker. Always been fascinated with it.

you know, been a Wall Street Journal, Forbes, a subscriber for some time. And I'd like reading that section almost as much as the sports section. Not quite, but I do. But, you know, I was tweaking people over the weekend. It's just, you know, X slash Twitter's a hell site. And I was saying, I'm going to be the balance from this point forward to some good economic news. Whenever I see it, I'm going to post it. And, you know, people always say, you don't know anything about politics. Well, people will say, you know, You don't know much about the economy. You don't have to. Pay attention.

Every flight I have been on, and I've seen bad economies during COVID post-2008, the market crash. I've seen bad economies. Last four years, three years, every flight I'm on is packed. Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, vacation, holiday, business, personal, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where I'm going. I can go to Rhode Island. I can go to Providence. I can go to Salt Lake. I can go to Dallas. I can go to Boise. I can go to Arizona. They're all packed. And I know those tickets aren't cheap. That's one way I've always measured the economy. Hey, during COVID, the early and late stages, you know, there were open seats on planes. You know, one of the things years ago, I got picked up by a driver. It was the late Bernie Max driver in Chicago. And I was asking him about how the economy was. And he said, well, I can always tell the economy. This was just a, you know, a driver. in Chicago for Bernie Mac, the late great comedian. And he said, I can tell the economy based on the

traffic. He said, people have jobs now. Traffic's awful. So you don't have to be an economist to figure out what's the traffic like. Try to get into a hotel. What are restaurants like on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday? How about a Tuesday? A Wednesday? Are they busy? What are they charging for cocktails? I can tell you in the life I live, and I don't hang out with the ritzie crowd. I don't. I got stay-at-home dads as friends, school teachers, regular dudes. Nobody right now is in dire straight. That doesn't mean people aren't in dire straits. But when I hear, wow, the inflation, it's down. Job growth, ascending unemployment. 3.7, historically low. The economy is fine. I'm not saying it's on fire. I'm not saying the economy is great. It's okay. I know,

based on my ad rates and commercials, we have turned a corner in the last six months, probably last four months. We've really turned a corner with our ad revenue on our podcasts. I have a big business dinner tomorrow night with a really important advertiser. I can tell based on my ads, the rates, how many dinners I'm having, airports, U.S. casinos last year made $6.5 billion. That's discretionary income. That's a lot of money. So because Biden's in office, you know, no conservative wants to acknowledge, oh, the economies, it's not terrible.

I don't give presidents that much credit for the economy, but the stock market does matter when people tell you the stock market is not the economy. Well, it's my economy. 50% of my net worth is in the stock market, so I pay attention to it. So when my 401k goes up, my SEP IRA goes up, my mutual funds, my net worth goes up, I travel more. I vacation more. I buy more stuff. I can't be the only person in the country that thinks that. So I know that draft kings, I know that people are sports betting and gambling and traveling and going to work. So what I don't buy into, I'll vote left and right. I would have

voted for Mitt Romney. I don't have a problem voting for a conservative. I voted for George Bush. I voted for Obama. I voted for Clinton. Right now, I'm not a fan of Biden or Donald Trump. I am an independent, left-leaning moderate on social issues, right-leaning moderate on fiscal issues. But this idea that you have to be an economist, no, the economy, no, you don't, pay attention. The economy is fine. Nobody said it's on fire. Nobody said it's equal for everybody. It never has been. I grew up in a small rural town without a lot of money. we were struggling to buy groceries, my entire childhood. We were not rolling in it.

Today's economy is fine, and I ain't sticking to sports, ever. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10.

pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me,

Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand-new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

This is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. John Middlecock, former NFL scout, going to the NFL Combine here.

Three and out his podcast, go low, is his golf podcast. You know, the NBA draft is fun, but there's two rounds, and these guys come in at 19, and they go to bad teams. So, and the hit rate's pretty low because you don't have as much video. It's hard in the NBA. NFL college draft, you have minimum three years of film. A lot of these guys come from two or three major conferences. They're playing against NFL guys. So there's misses, but there's a lot of hits as well.

You know, now I was thinking about one of the things in the draft that I was reading a story, and I forget, God, I want to give credit to whoever did it. They went back and looked at last year's draft. and graded it. And again, it's not so. Houston had the most successful draft. So when C.J. Stroud comes in and crushes, some of it is very explainable. They hit like on five draft picks.

Number two, I know the Rams and the Seahawks were up there. The Packers were at three. And I got to tell you something. I said this. I like both the Packers' last two drafts. is I sometimes wonder about this. But by the way, the jets and the giants, terrible. Yeah.

Is that I sometimes wonder, and you worked in the building, because Philadelphia, where you worked, it's a wealthy franchise. There's a lot of money here. Green Bay, I could argue over the last 25 years, has done a better job than anybody in this league drafting and developing. And when you were in the league, and my take is, is a lack of an owner helpful?

The guys running it are just all football guys. But the Packers, they went to last year's draft and the receivers hit and the tight ends hit. And I just, when I look at Green Bay, I think, okay, they've had different GMs, different coaches. They nail quarterbacks, grade O line. They always, always find receivers and tight ends. When you were in the league, is it one of those classic The Millionaire Next Door that if you're, on a school teacher salary, you're just not going to waste as much money. You're going to be smarter than a stockbroker who's got money to, right?

Are the Packers seen as frugal because they don't have the game day revenue? But when I saw that list, and again, I apologize for not crediting who it was. I saw it on the plane. It was best draft from last year. Packers were third. And I thought, God, when is the last bad draft the Packers had? I think a lot has to do with, you know, a lot of cultures when I get rid of everyone, right? a GM and a and a coach.

The owner gets to hire everybody and he's always the boss. He's always hovering over everybody. It goes back to Ron Wolf and Holmgren. Ron taught all these guys, right, from Ted Thompson. Gutakins had worked there forever. So they've had the same culture in terms of management since Ron Wolf showed up in the early 90s. So the way they look at players, they've always been obsessed with height, weight, speed. I don't think it has to do as much with like pinching pennies.

and not being able to like, you know, you're the raise, they're the Yankees, so you have to outthink them. I just think that they've taught and streamlined it from generation to generation very, very well. They have a, like, a company culture there that I think has transcended general managers, from Ron Wolf to Ted Thompson to now Gutakins. And I think they've been pretty consistent, back to what you're saying, with the draft, of like, they all know what they're looking for because they've been looking for the same thing now for 30 years. helps a lot when you have a quarterback, right? They have a quarterback and they know how to surround the guy.

And they've always done an incredible job of surrounding the guy on offense. I think the Ravens are a pretty good example of how they transition from Ozzy to DeCosta. Because DeCosta was his right-hand man forever. Yes. So it's like when you have the cohesion, like why are the chiefs so strong right now? Because Andy has Spags who's never leaving. I mean, and who has been, goes back for 20 years beating Belichick and Brady. It's very unique to have that.

Kyle or McVeigh get a good coordinator. Boom, the guy's gone. They can't hold on to their defensive coordinator. So I think having the cohesion, the Packers is a great place to work. I remember when we were there, when I worked in the league, everyone was always kind of envious of like, because it was like this chill vibe, but they were winning big. And it was just, do the Green Bay Packers,

there was like the pressure we had in Philadelphia felt it every day when you went in the building. They definitely don't have that. Yeah, I think the Chiefs really have that going. on right now, but a lot has to do with winning. I just think it's a very unique organization, but I do think it gets back to the streamlined vision from generation to generation, and they've all crossed. You know, like John Schneider, hires Mike McDonald. They don't know each other.

They're hoping this chemistry works because he's good coach with the Ravens and, you know, he knows, but it's like you're kind of keeping your fingers crossed. You look at Harbaugh, goes to the chargers, who do they hire as his general manager, a guy he knows, a guy he's comfortable with from Baltimore. So you're like, yeah, it's probably going to work out. He knows John. It's all in the family. That matters.

Like, Shanahan's had a lot of success with people he knows. He's worked with Robert Salah. He coached Domeco Ryans. Brian Greasy, he worked with when he was young in Tampa. His dad knows him. We're all comfortable with people we know. Right. Who do you hire the volume?

Like to run your management, people that you're comfortable, people with, you know, it helps. Now they have to be talented. But like when you're all on the same page, it's a lot easier to operate. And I think for 30 plus years, the Packers have just had a lot of cohesion. Not a lot of people leave. Their coaches do.

You know, but their scouts, I don't know if they pay top-notch relative to the NFL executives, but I sure know when they're winning, things are having success, people like working there. Yeah,

you can also buy a hell of a house in Milwaukee for $490,000. You know, it's just, it was when I saw the list, it was, like, God, Green Bay knows what they're doing. And to your point, quarterbacks kind of make it all work. You can, I mean, listen, Brett Veach and Kansas

City's had some misses. You forget Skymore. You forget them really quickly. Moholms makes you forget shit really quickly. Well, it's like someone told me with the Jets a couple years ago. They're like, they had all those picks in the top, whatever, the first couple rounds for two straight years. We could go seven of eight. They all could be pro bowlers. If Zach's a whiff, we're in trouble. We'd go one of eight. If Zach's a hit, contract extensions. Well, what happened? They went 7, 8, maybe not 7, 8, but 5 or 6 of 8, and Zach's a problem, and they got issues.

That quarterback, I mean, if Jordan Love, and we're all going to pencil them in, I do think there's a difference of kind of, they got to fly under the radar a little bit this year. They started slow. Then they came on, everyone next year is going to be looking at them like double-digit wins, playoff team. It is a different pressure. That's why I give a lot of credit to the Lions. Everyone took the Lions seriously this year coming in, and they handled it well.

Like it's a, it's another, now LaFleur has success now. He's been a part of those type teams with Aaron. So he's, I feel comfortable with it. But sustaining high level play year and year out, that's hard. So, you know, there's going to be a lot of tangible pressure on Jordan Love next year. Yeah, I've always kind of measured how often I talk football. I don't work at the NFL network, nor do I want to. I like to, I like the NBA.

I like, you know, an October, September baseball series. I like the World Cup, a good UFC fight. I like March Madness. I could never just talk football, and I've always kept the number around 65% of the show. But I was talking to a TV exec. I had a meeting about 10, 12 days ago with a really smart guy, and we were talking about the Big Ten,

and he said, those ratings are going to go up 15 to 20%. And I had given college football about an eight-year break, a hiatus on my show, because it got very regional and very southern. And I'm not anti-SEC, but if it was all, it was Alabama, Georgia, and Clemson every year for seven straight years. Yeah. And so just like, listen, once baseball became very local, nobody in Minnesota is going to watch the Mariners. Nobody in Seattle gives a rip about Tampa Bay.

Yet a Seahawk fan would watch the Buccaneers and Baker Mayfield play. So once baseball, about 10, 12 years ago, I felt it really got local. I just didn't talk about it. College basketball is a turnstile now between the transfer portal one and done. You can't name the starters on Duke. But it is sort of interesting. I was talking to this executive about the growth of the college football. He goes, you're not going to believe the numbers are going to explode. And he started talking about the Big Ten schedule. And he's like, you're going to get Washington, Oregon, or Washington, Michigan, Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, USC. You're going to have

three and four games in a row all day. And it did make me think as I was off this week. And I, you know, I kind of shut it down when I'm off. I don't watch sports. I just leave. And there was nothing going on Anyway, I'm watching the Warriors Nuggets today. It was a crappy year. But the biggest story in baseball last week as the season starts, uniforms, you know, they're kind of sheer see-through. Biggest story in the NBA was how bad the All-Star game was. The biggest story in college basketball was storming the court.

Yet the NFL is the sport we talk about because we watch the games. Listen, if you're a fan, listen to what we talk about when people, sportscasters, podcaster, talk football. we actually talk about strategy in the games, that the NFL, with the growth of college football, which, by the way, between the draft and the combine, they really started to go hand in hand. College basketball in the NBA are the Grand Canyon. They have nothing in common.

Most of the great players don't even want to play in college basketball. College baseball, major league baseball, college hockey. They don't connect. You know, college soccer and the MLS. They don't connect. College football connects with the NFL more and more. And I was sitting there this week watching people talk about sports. And I thought, am I going to do an 80% football show based on the audience?

As I've said, the audience drives the show. What they want, I follow ratings. And I'm sitting there thinking, I don't want to work at the NFL network. But John, between legalized gambling, people now stick through bad games, this massive, yeah, Big Ten SEC explosion. where now the two conferences are going to have all the games we watch. The ratings are going to skyrocket, the 12-team playoff. I was sitting there this week, and I thought, Jesus, you're talking about see-through pants in baseball, is that amongst your friends, when you go golf, does anybody talk about anything other? No, football is the only thing that it comes up consistently.

Even, and I know a couple of guys and play golf with some former Major League baseball players, they talk football. I mean, Bill's fan, a Packer fan, that's all they want to talk about. And during the fall, I think college football, like you said, think about next year, Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Georgia, Texas LSU, the SEC and the Big Ten, it's going to feel like NFL light. I think the NFL, I've said this forever. I don't know if it's going to last forever my entire life. Like, I'm almost 40, does that 40 years dominating? When I was growing up, baseball was huge. the 90s with the Yankees, basketball with Michael Jordan,

but for the foreseeable future, I don't see how that gap. The All-Star game, guys actively talk, like, why would we even try to participate? Anthony Rendon, who's making $245 million. He's that story. He's like, yeah, baseball's not even a priority. It's like, well, I think for $250 million,

you probably don't want to say that, buddy. You know, it's like, can you imagine an NFL play? I think the relatability sometimes with the, and I don't even blame these guys. because you're getting $250 million guaranteed some of these basketball players. I played golf last week during the All-Star break with a guy that calls NBA games. And he was saying one problem is, and he's on a pretty high-level team, but he just sees it around the league. It's always like you have to max everybody out.

Well, you can't lose them. Well, is the guy a max player? Like, we had to max Zion. Did you? Or, I mean, did you have to? Because in the NFL, you don't have to. And you would not. And so everyone's making all this money.

I don't care who you are. If you're 25 years old and you're basically guaranteed to get an astronomical amount of money, you're going to be jaded in the way you think about everything. Yeah. Where in football, it still has this old school meritocracy that if you do not produce within two years, I've seen it forever. It's why when I used to go to Niners camp a lot, like I'm not going to make a too big a deal about a third or fourth round pick. Because every year I've seen that third or fourth round pick by the time training camp ends,

the undrafted free agents beating him out and might even beat out the starter. and all of a sudden two undrafted free agents are starting. Guys are coming from everywhere. Every team. I don't care if you're a playoff team or a shitty team. And it's kind of like relates to our life. You got to produce whatever you do. You either generate revenue, get your job done, or you kind of get replaced.

Where I think in basketball and baseball, it's kind of like scholarship. Once you get paid, like, I can't, what am I going to do with you? Even in football, you're going to see so many names this week. You're like, God, I thought that guy was under a long-term contract. They're like, yeah, we're thinking about cutting them. if you won't take a pay cut. We'll think about trading them. So basically every guy,

I mean, we could probably name 30 guys that like untouchable in the NFL. A lot of them are quarterbacks. And then a lot of like high level, Trent Williams, Travis Kelsey, like those type guys. But basically every other name, you go half the Pro Bowl roster. You're like, yeah,

they could move on from that guy. Yep. And I think basketball and baseball used to have an element of that. And definitely their guys were wired, like working in like local television in the Bay Area and meeting a lot of, guys that played in the 80s and 90s. They had that attitude in baseball and basketball. I can be replaced. I can be cut. They were very relatable individuals. It's why Charles Barkley's like one of the

biggest TV stars of all time. He's relatable. I think it's much more difficult for the modern guy in that sport to be relatable because you're making $100 million guaranteed whether you're good or bad. No one has a problem when you're good getting paid. But he's like, is this guy even, Jordan Poole's making $130 million. He's like the worst player in the NBA. Yeah. Well, and I've talked to a handful of execs, and I've brought this up before, they laugh at the NBA structure. They're like, what a joke. They make fun.

NFL guys, I remember having this conversation a couple years ago when the CTE thing came down. And a lot of these Northeast media types who don't understand the passion for football in the Midwest or college football, they're like, yeah, it's the end of the NFL. I'm like, you've been in the Northeast way too long where baseball still talked about on sports radio a lot. I'm like, football's not going anywhere. It's way too big to fail.

There's way too much money. And they've cleaned it up. Then nobody hits at practice anymore once the season starts. By the way, you get to the Super Bowl, usually the teams that get to the Super Bowl are missing maybe one starter. Like, everybody's got the – I mean, guys are healthy. Niners and Chiefs were healthy. Yeah. So there's a – you know, the Chiefs a few years ago missing their tackles.

And it was like, yeah, that's what happens. But one of the things – the structure of the NFL is the structure of most of our lives. You're tradable, cuttable, fireable. And I never understand fans. Like, this is like we're fans. I look at fans that I just think, you guys are out in your mind. This idea, I want my guy to get the bag. Fuck that.

I don't want many players to get the bag because it limits my flexibility. I am always rooting for the team to sign a reasonable contract. So it gives the team flexibility. I mean, this idea, like, Dax got a $300 billion net worth. after his next contract. He's fine. But you're not fine if you overpay players. But it is interesting.

The NFL is the only sport. And I will say the MLS and hockey are the closest. NBA and baseball are a mess. That it's like, you just... I talked to a former hockey guy that played 15 years. I didn't know who he was, but we started BS. He was one of the most relatable individuals. I had to Google after I was.

God, this guy played. They have a relatability to the way they talk and the way they interact. They're actually, I'm like, this guy could have talked to anyone in here and could have got along. It was very impressive. Yeah, I met a guy at a bar in Naples one time,

NHL guy. He was a Bruin. I didn't know. I'm Googled them same. But I also think they have a very tight cap. And stars get paid. Everybody else makes a good living, not an insane living.

And I'm not anti, I always said this. I'm not anti-players making money. I'm not anti-mobility. But in any business, if you're paying B&C employees A money, you're going to have a problem. And I do think, and again, I love NBA playoff basketball. I really do.

It's one of my favorite things. But NFL guys, they look executives, owners, they look at the NBA and baseball, and they just laugh at their structure. Well, I think one power of the NFL, like you said, about a random fan will watch not his team and know their players. I also think because of the power, listen, we can argue over the franchise tag, whether it's fair or not. It's one of the healthiest things for the business by a mile. Because when Kevin Durant or Aaron Judge or Shohei Utani, when they hit free agency, there is no mechanism to keep them. And in those leagues, guys turn over a lot, which is not great for the league. If I'm the Kansas Chiefs, I would imagine bottom 10 market in the NFL.

If I want to keep Patrick Mahomes, his entire career or the Packers with Rogers or Far, I can until I choose. to get rid of them. And that's healthy for my organization, for the league. The chiefs were just in a Super Bowl, and they're easily now, I would say, one of the most recognizable brands in the NFL because of Patrick. And that's not really possible. Like in the NBA, if the Nuggets make the NBA finals, it's not great. They would much rather have Steph Curry or LeBron in the NBA finals. We're in the NFL, it helps to have the Niners there. But if it had been the Lions, maybe it's not 120. What is 115 million people still watch the Super Bowl? It doesn't impact. And that's where I think the NFL has dwarfed everyone.

They're no longer dependent on markets, the brands. Their brands change by the player, by the quarterback, who you know if Josh Allen's healthy, he's going to be on the bill for 15 years. And it's always been like that. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this plastic. became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite

athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you're going to be. You can find out on The Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we bring them on a couple times a year, Ian O'Connor, four-time New York Times bestseller, 20-time first-place winner, national writing contest, New York Post.

When I have tried to do Psych 101 with Aaron Rogers, I've said this on the air. I'm not a psychologist, but he pushed back on his parents and religion. He pushed back on authority in Green Bay. He has pushed back on the vaccine. He's pushed back on media. He's pushed back. He's a bit of a contrarian that maybe he is, you know, he's our modern day rebel, is that if you look at his personality, what he does is constantly push back on conventional mandates, conventional wisdom, conventional authority. That's my interpretation. He just pushes back on group think. Now, sometimes group think is correct. I think people should have taken the vaccine if they were older, right? Kids maybe not as much. Is that a fair or reasonable interpretation of what you're discovering is that, you know, he's never married, no kids, may not, you know, I don't know of his pet situation.

He's really an independent guy. He's wealthy, good. looking older. He's got his worldview. It's a lot like Joe Rogans. They're both talented. But he basically just pushes back an authority. Maybe one of the reasons he's not married. He doesn't want to conform. And that's his personality. That's his id. Is that reasonable? Reasonable. He certainly pushes back on an awful lot of fronts. And I think growing up in a very strict religious household is certainly part of it. Maybe the beginning of when you grow up in a household like that, I think maybe naturally later on. And he goes to Cal, this liberal, global institution, people from all over the world. And he's experiencing different cultures and backgrounds and

ethnicities and races. And he grew up into town that was overwhelmingly white. And so I think you start to see it maybe a Cal, Cal Berkeley. And I think he starts pushing back maybe against the religious upbringing, and that leads to other pushback. I think that's a reasonable interpretation of the journey of his life and where he is right now. And I think that the one thing about him that I admire, even though I don't agree with everything he says, is he is pretty fearless. He's not afraid to confront opposition and to say unpopular things and to deal with the consequences of those things. I think that's an admirable trait.

I don't think that he's doing it just for that reason just to push back. I do think he believes in what he says. But I think that's a good read on the journey of Aaron Rogers. And I did ask him some quiescence. For instance, when he said I've been immunized, and then he got killed for that later on, of course, when it came out that he did not get the vaccine. and he explained why he said what he said. And he was allergic to an ingredient in Moderna and Pfizer and also concerned about the side effects, the reported alleged side effects of the Johnson & Johnson shot is,

why didn't you just say that in August of that year when he gave that press conference, instead of saying I've been immunized and sort of misleading people. And I thought his answer to that, which I like to say for the book, was very interesting. And because if I were sitting there as a columnist, I don't know how you feel, Colin, about vaccines and I got vaccinated. Yeah. But I put myself sort of in the middle on it because I do think it was not quite as effective as it was advertised. And I got COVID twice. And so I said, if you gave that explanation about being allergic and also being concerned about side effects, I actually, I think that's a reasonable explanation.

I would have accepted it. Unlike Kyrie Irving, who could not play because of the mandate in New York, you could play with that position. And my biggest problem with Kyrie Irving is what he was doing to his teammates, and particularly Kevin Durant, but also to middle and bottom of the roster of players whose careers were being affected and could be elevated by winning a championship that they had no chance of winning with him not playing. So Aaron Rogers didn't have to deal with that. He was eligible to play with the position of not taking the vaccine. But I think if I were sitting there as a columnist and he gave the explanation he gave months later, I would have thought that was reasonable. Yeah, I view you as a storyteller.

I think you're a great American sports storyteller and that's what I value. Yeah, I mean, your books have read them all. And I can't wait for this. Aaron Rogers, that's a really, you know, part of this book writing thing is the topic. I tell people this all the time in my business. you can be the greatest sports talk show host of all time. You choose hockey. I choose football.

I win the segment. It doesn't matter how great you are, how average I am. Topic matters. And right now, I can't wait to read the Aaron Rogers book. I can't. That's a great topic. I can't because nobody's really done the seminal book on him. Because he's been a little bit elusive.

He's a little bit prickly. He can be a tad aloof. And he's not, he's not that giving. teammates don't know him. He's not that giving. So do you know the name for it yet? Out of the darkness. Oh, my. The mystery of Aaron Rogers is sort of the subtitle.

But he has said those words out of the dark as I came out of the darkness. It was more last year than I guess this year. But when he went on that darkness retreat and came outside, he still wanted to play. Then he wanted to play for the Jets. And so the idea is to bring light to the mystery of who he is. And so that's why that title was picked. And so you're not really, you're not a huge fan of his as a, as a figure, right? As a personality.

Well, I think first ballot Hall of Famer would always choose him over Farr, if I thought he was more efficient and more of a thinking man's player. I consider him like A-Rod or Kevin Durant, an all-time great talent, not a great leader, little passive-aggressive, Jeter's more leader, Brady's more leader. And I think there's a distinction between the two. I think LeBron has leadership quality. Steph Curry does. I think Kauai Leonard's just great.

And so we tend to think quarterbacks all have to be great leaders. Manning certainly was. He was very confrontational with Jeff Saturday. Brady with a coordinator. Mahomes with a coach. That's not Aaron. But I do think he's a fascinating personality. He's a content machine.

He's a contrarian, and I appreciate him. I think he suffers from a little bit of that smartest guy in the room disease. Oh, yeah, no doubt about that. Old, rich, single. Doesn't really have to sacrifice for kids, a family. You know what I mean? Like, when you're married, it's a series of sacrifices. I'm willing to do all of them, but it's a different lifestyle than Aaron.

And I think, you know, Bill Simmons and I have talked about this. Older, richer, handsome, never married. you know, you kind of get into your own, you get into your mirror a lot. You are the sun, the galaxy, and the stars. And I think there's a bit of that that's a little over the top. But I respect the hell out of him. Oh, it's interesting because the Jets, the players love him to death. And I think most of them did in Green Bay.

He had two guys, Greg Jennings and Jim Michael Finley, who had some negative things to say about him and his leadership style and approach over the years. But it's really kind of just those two guys. And I had a prominent NFL figure. I use this quote in the book, but I'll give it to you now. I didn't name the person because he said, listen, I can't stand Aaron Rogers and everything he stands for, particularly on the vaccine. And this is somebody who's done a lot of business with the Packers and the Jets, prominent NFL figure. And he said, but I have to admit, I've never met an NFL player who doesn't like it.

So in the locker room, he's loved in a lot of corners. And so Hard Knocks was very good for him. I think it became an Aaron Rogers infomercial, really, in terms of how he connected with players, older players, younger players, and how they responded to him. So we'll see. We'll see how the season plays out. I just want him to be healthy.

I just want to see the season. I just want to see him make 15 starts. And I've never, I've covered some of his games here and there. but I've never seen a full Aaron-Rodger season. I'd love to see it in my backyard with the Jets. And if he could win a championship with the Jets, which is unlikely, that would do a tremendous amount for his legacy.

I think right now I'd have him fifth all-time on the quarterback list. I think he could probably move up to two or three with a Super Bowl victory with the Jets. I'd probably put, well, Brady's one, Mahomes, two, Montana, three, Peyton Manning, four, and I'd have Rogers five. But I think he can move up a step or two if he went on with the Jets. Yeah, I have, I have Brady Mahomes, Montana, Peyton, Elway, and then I think you get into the next four or five guys. He's in that discussion, absolutely. Do you have more like seven, eight?

Yeah, I have him more like eight, but I always preferred him over Favre, who I thought was reckless, not as coachable, was more instinct-driven, which I understood John Madden's affection for him, but I like guys who are more kind of buttoned up on script and take the laps and not everything is sort of, you know, I'm going to do it my way. I think that's a very outdated way to play football. Thanks so much for listening.

If you've enjoyed the podcast, take a moment, rate and review. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only. legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.