The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Nick Wright On Mahomes Greatness, Jayden Daniels Will Dominate NFC, Joe Burrow is SCREWED, Saquon Is Sensational
Episode Date: February 1, 2025Colin’s top takes of the week! He begins with the dominance of the Eagles run game and Saquon Barkley powering them to the Super Bowl, and why Jayden Daniels is poised to be a dominant for...ce in the NFC for years (3:45). Then John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” stops by to chop up the top stories in the NFL! They discuss the importance of risk-taking, hyperaggressive general managers for building Super Bowl caliber rosters (13:00). They break down the talent gap between the Eagles and Commanders (24:00), why Saquon Barkley is an all-time running back talent (27:00), and scratch their heads at the Cowboys hiring Brian Schottenheimer as their head coach (34:00) Then, Colin’s joined by Nick Wright, host of “First Things First” on FS1! They shoot down the controversy surrounding the Chiefs getting help from the refs against the Bills (45:30) and in true Nick Wright fashion, Nick provides a laundry list of Patrick Mahomes stats to support his argument that Mahomes will be a Mt. Rushmore ATHLETE, not just quarterback… and why the partnership between him and Andy Reid has produced greatness(51:00). They discuss why adaptability was key for the Chiefs beating the Bills and predictability was the Bills downfall and they talk about the massive disadvantage for defensive minded head coaches in the modern NFL (53:45). They trade their “Most Wrong NFL Takes” from this past season and both involved Nick Sirriani and the Eagles (57:45). Finally, they discuss why Joe Burrow is completely screwed being stuck with bad Bengals ownership in a conference that’s stacked with quarterback talent.(1:04:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates! #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Well, the Philadelphia Eagles,
who have the best personnel in the NFL,
the best roster,
since probably about the Niners three years ago,
but the Eagles have a much better O line
and they're much better at quarterback.
I don't know how Buffalo,
if they get to the Super Bowl,
is going to stop this.
It's going to stop.
this offense. Today, I mean, Washington obviously helped multiple fumbles, three fumbles,
but this roster is insane. I mean, I went into this game thinking, winner of the AFC is
Super Bowl champs. I mean, here's how good Philadelphia's roster is. You forget DeVante Smith is
on the team. They have to engineer jet sweeps and little clever misdirection plays to get in the
ball. Otherwise, you forget. He'd be a number of
one on a dozen teams in the NFL, number one receiver. You forget he's on the team. I mean,
they have to work to get the ball to A.J. Brown, who's a top five wide receiver talent in the NFL,
between Goddard, Barclay, Hertz. It's just, again, it's, they have an elite player at running
back, two at guard, two at tackle, two at receiver, one at tight end, one at defensive tackle.
I think both their corners are really good.
It is, and Jalen Hertz makes just enough, just enough big throws that you got to play them honest.
He's, I think Jaden Daniels is better from the pocket.
I think Greg CoSell's been telling this all year.
But he makes just, you know, 18-yard throws, good in the red zone.
It's just, this team is just insane.
I mean, think about, let's go back to the beginning of the season.
when the Giants allowed Sequin Barclay free agent to go to Philadelphia.
And we said it at that time.
It is, this is as bad as GMing gets, Joe Shane of the Giants.
It doesn't get any worse than that.
I always thought Reggie White to the Packers, greatest free agent acquisition,
Drew Breeze to the Saints.
I mean, Brady wasn't in Tampa long, pretty damn good, right?
Peyton Manning, the Denver.
This feels like it's in the same class.
I mean, to let them go to your division rival.
I don't even, I'd congrats on Joe Shane retaining his job.
It's as bad as it gets, and you could see it coming from a mile away.
This is Babe Ruth to the Yankees.
You could see it coming from yesterday.
It was like a slow heavyweight fighter's right hook.
Jerry Corey, look that one up.
Telegraphed.
Philadelphia is a handful, man.
There's just not much out there I've ever seen like it.
There are drives throughout the course of a game.
And there are halves for the east.
Eagles that you just don't know how anybody ever stops them. And, you know, Washington,
you know, they'll sputter initially because, you know, a defense has all sorts of energy.
But have you noticed what they're doing in the second half? It just, they wear people out.
They just wear teams out. That's why I said what the Rams did in snow for an indoor team
to be, you know, have a chance to win the game late is insane. Like, keep your eye on the Rams next year.
because, I mean, there was a point in the second half.
I thought, okay, they're down 14 points.
They're still in it.
And maybe without the mistakes they would be.
But it is, you know, listen, both teams were in the top 10 in the NFL and 10 plus play drives.
And Washington's opening 18 play drive, I thought, I would have gone for it, by the way.
My take is take 22 plays, score a touchdown, get into Philly's head.
I mean, you have to take chances like the fake punt.
You have to take chances against Philadelphia.
have the same personnel, you're on the road. The fake punt, I would have gone forward in that opening
drive. Just 22 plays in a touchdown, get into Philly's head. You're not getting into anybody's
head when you settle for a field goal. But I feel, like in this game, I did not feel the Eagles
were undercoached. Now, mid-second quarter when Barclay only had three carries, I'm like,
let's go, let's not out-think the room. But I think Philadelphia is coached well enough to win a
Super Bowl and their personnel's insane. I mean, I'm telling you, I'm thinking of the last roster
that was this good. The Seahawks, when the Seahawks had Russell Wilson on a rookie contract,
and they went and got Cliff Averald rushed the passer, and Percy Harvin as a gadget player,
I mean, they barely played Percy Harvin because he had those migraine headaches. That Seattle
team had, they had just so, they had a great player in every unit, safety, corner, pass rusher,
weapon, elusive quarterback, star running back. Old lines back then were probably the best
of Pete Carroll's NFL coaching career. So I think Philadelphia, I worry that Jaylen Hertz
will be forced to play from behind. I don't love him there. But you know what? He's good enough.
He's good enough. This roster is just ridiculous. Now, good news for Washington. You're going to
be back in this game several times over the next decade if Jaydon Daniels stays healthy.
Terry McLaurin, 16 touchdowns this year.
That's as much as or more than the last three years combined.
So we've always said quarterback leads the receiver.
You can have the world's best receivers.
You can go get Larry Fitzgerald.
When he had better quarterbacks, he put up better numbers in Arizona.
So, you know, Terry McLaurin's always been good.
He's a great player now, spectacular player.
Quarterback drives the wide receiver.
So Washington, I think, is well-coached.
Cliff Kingsbury, in my opinion.
should remain in Washington several years, play out your contract, until there's a great job
opening. There really isn't. I thought New England was about as good a job opening as you're going
to have stability and ownership, Drake May, decent defensive personnel. But if I was Cliff Kingsbury,
stay put. And I remember before the draft, I was lucky I had a really good source that said Washington
is going to draft Jane Daniels. There was a lot of questions about Drake May.
going to, and I, you know, I'll say this. I was told very early Kingsbury pounded the table for
Jaden Daniels. He saw him, he thought, this is the offense. I'll mold this guy very quickly. And two weeks
into camp, I was told that Kingsbury was like, he's better than I thought. And the kid's spectacular.
He's so good from the pocket, so clever, so smart. And he has a quality that you can confuse it
with being emotionally remote.
Like he doesn't,
he's not somebody that is high spirits and high fiving.
I think that wears well.
I think his ability,
he doesn't pout,
he doesn't sulk,
that's different.
But he is emotionally into the moment,
you know,
you don't see his emotion.
He doesn't wear it.
And I think that temperament is so important.
Listen,
Baker Mayfield has done a great redemption tour.
He wears his emotion on his sleeve.
And because of that,
he throws a lot of picks and he's reckless.
I love Sam Darnel.
Sam Darnal gets very emotional, amped up.
You don't get that with Jane Daniels.
It's just same temperament, and that is going to pay major dividends.
I didn't think he was overwhelmed.
He didn't have half the team.
He's got one weapon.
He's got Austin Echler.
But, I mean, Zach Erch's good players, but, I mean, McLaren's a special player.
So I got reams and reams and notes that I'll get to more of,
the Eagles with the former Eagle Scout John Middlok later.
But that fourth and 12, they went for it.
When Daniels got sacked in the fourth quarter, that was all she wrote.
Just, I mean, you're watching the same thing I am with Philadelphia.
Sweet Jesus, is this roster insane?
It will be the best roster in the Super Bowl.
It will be the best roster I can think of except for the Niners.
And I won't even say that.
The Niners were not this stacked.
on the offensive line and Hertz is a better quarterback. But in the red zone, good night.
Pick your poison. Good night. I get the, the push actually is you can, you can, at least
when they run the push push, you know the direction, the dimension where Philadelphia is going.
They have the ability. They have a couple drives today. And you're sitting there thinking to yourself,
and I like to guess the call before the play. I mean, my entire life watching football,
I'm trying to kind of guess what they're doing.
I can never guess Philadelphia except the tush push.
That's the only time I know what they're doing.
But when I think they should go to Sequin, they don't.
And then I think where's Devante Smith?
And they get it to him.
I mean, that gutsy call on fourth down,
they threw it up to sideline to A.J. Brown.
That would have been the last thing I would have been envisioned or predicted.
So the play calling today I thought was really good.
I'm just not a fan of the tush push.
congrats to the commanders for a remarkable season and drafting what I believe is the Patrick Mahomes of the NFC for the foreseeable future.
When I look at Kansas City and I look at that front seven defensively and I look at Brett Beech's drafting and I look at Howie Roseman's drafting is, you know, GMs, we don't pay a lot of attention outside of money ball.
We don't pay attention.
I mean, the Dodgers just go by the best players, right?
We don't talk about Andrew Friedman, even though he's excellent.
It's mostly there.
In baseball, we talk about how much money can Steve Cohen spend.
In the NBA, once you draft a star, the GM's just trying to find rotational guys around the star.
In the NFL, there is a gap in quality of general managers.
And to me, not just because their teams are good, I think Howie Roseman's one.
I think Brett Veach is two, depending on the draft.
And I don't think, I love Andy Reid, but in Philadelphia, he didn't have this kind of talent.
I mean, it took Brett a couple of years to get this receiving core right.
Remember, that's the hardest position to draft in the first round.
It has the most misses in the last 20 years.
But I think they're buttoned up now going forward.
Yeah, one thing when I got to Philadelphia, I learned is O-Line D-Line comes first.
And in my four years of drafts, when I first got there, Brandon Graham was our first round pick.
my second year, Danny Watkins, he was a flop, but he was an offensive lineman first round pick,
Fletcher Cox first round pick, Lane Johnson first round pick.
You know, it was not saying you can't draft other positions, but that's where you win in this league is on the fronts.
And I mean, that's been a separating factor for the Eagles.
Think about this too.
It's not like Andy doesn't love skill guys.
He once traded for Terrell Owens.
He drafted Deshawn Jackson.
He loved Tyree Kill.
But they had a tough decision a couple years back when he was.
came to Tyree Kill. And what did they do? They traded them so they could go all in on Chris Jones.
They chose one of the two guys. And they not only chose the right guy, then they parlayed that
into McDuffey and Carlisksk. You know, I mean, Bill Belichick could have drafted Carlisksk.
He traded out so Andy Reid could trade up and get him. Yep. Yep. So you add Carlossus to go
with Chris Jones, to go with a great coordinator, to go with a fantastic secondary. And the one thing
the Chiefs, it starts with Kelsey and Mahomes, but they just have a lot of high level, high
football IQ tough guys. It's not actually this sexy. Like there's not a bunch of Jerry Rice's and
Ray Lewis's. I mean, it's not the sexiest like NFL films, all-time great sound bites.
It's just kind of old school, boring, high-level cats who, you know, the one thing, and listen,
I know a lot of people in that organization, we're not a place where you get to sit in the
training room on Wednesday and Thursday. Our guys practice. Obviously, if you're legitimately
injured, you don't have to practice. But this is not like we coast through once the season. Listen,
there are a lot of players. You're like, yeah, this guy doesn't practice much during the week and has
it in years. That shit doesn't fly there. And their star guy, Travis Kelsey is like the hardest
practicing guy on the team. In fairness, Tyreek always was for them too. But it just got so expensive.
And they really value that. And I'd say it shows. Right. Well, and I think if you look,
They had 20 years of kicking everyone's ass.
Show me the warm weather or dome team dynasty.
If you look at pro football, New England, cold, private, covert, intense physical.
Philadelphia, intense, emotional, physical, Kansas City.
You start looking, go find me the great dynasties in warm weather.
Years ago, I talked to a guy about this.
He said, be careful when you live in a port city.
like a Miami or a New Orleans, the players you draft, you get real silly, really finesse, really quick.
Guys want to go out. The girls are pretty. Their restaurants everywhere, the outdoor scene.
You go to the NFL. The one sport in our country that is physicality-based is football.
It is not a coincidence that, I mean, listen, I'm saying this with respect to Buffalo and Baltimore.
Their ass kicking towns. Like people work hard. They shovel their snow for the players.
Football is a physical game. I mean, last.
two national champions, Ohio State and Michigan pushed people all over the field. For years,
the SEC, Bama and Georgia's offenses were hit and miss. Their defenses were intimidating and
violent. And there is something to be said about the physical nature. I mean, we have now a Kansas
City and a New England dynasty, two New England dynasties in the Kansas City dynasty in the last 24 years,
and both are known as intense coaches, practice hard, play hurt, front off,
and coaches control the environment.
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Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what?
We have some big news.
What's the news, Nick? Huge news.
We created our own podcast called,
Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?
Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.
We're the first people to do podcasts.
Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of
podcast throughout there.
But this one's extra special.
So how do we actually come up with a name,
Hey Jonas, guys?
I honestly don't remember.
I think it was on a call about what we should call it.
Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it
one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.
This is how you guys remember it going down?
Yes.
I have a very different memory of this.
We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,
people could call in and say, hey Jonas.
And then I wrote down on my life.
little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.
But thanks for remembering that, guys.
Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.
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Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.
This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an
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We do some retirement homes.
Those people are starving for banter.
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Hey, I'm Jared Adano.
You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet.
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If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice.
One ring is too scary.
Oh, cream of chicken soup.
Hey, cream.
Cream and chicken soup.
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All right. Let's pivot to the Eagles 55, the Commanders 23.
So, I mean, I listen, I think I bet the Eagle, this was my favorite bet the last two weeks have been the Eagles.
I like the Eagles.
I like the over,
so I hit on that.
And my take is, I think we just have to be,
Washington today was a better story than a team,
is that they were missing their best D-Linman,
their best O lineman.
Jaden Daniels is a remarkable player.
Terry McLaurin, I mean, this kid now finally has help.
But I couldn't help but watch that game.
And as the game wore on,
it felt like you were watching,
a major league team and a great AAA team.
Like, Washington just didn't have the players.
And, you know, I think, you know, it would be one thing to say,
hey, Washington had a great effort, but I thought they, I mean,
they had their fumbles, they had multiple turnovers.
They reminded me a little of the Houston Texans.
They just aren't quite there yet.
They need another draft.
They have a lot of cap space.
They need about four free agents, three to four starters in the draft.
and then that game's going to look different.
But I just felt you were, I just felt physically, Philly is so big.
I mean, A.J. Brown is a tight end on Washington.
They're so big.
They're so physical.
And Washington has two great players, McLaurin and Jane Daniels, several good players.
And two of their good players were out, the old linemen and paying the delinement.
Well, I heard a stat that the turnover discrepancy of teams that had won in the playoffs
and teams that lost in the playoffs coming into this weekend was 21 to 3.
So if you told me to start the game that Washington was going to have a bunch of turnovers and fumbles
and the Eagles were not, I would say they have no chance.
Because it's pretty evident how good Jaden Daniels is.
Like in texting people with Philly, they think he's like a 30-year-old all pro.
That's what they were preparing for.
Those were the words coming out of Fangio.
That's how they approached the game plan week.
But when I looked at the matchup, there might be under two players for what.
Washington that start for Philadelphia.
Two players.
Terry McLaren, and I'm not counting
Jaden Daniels. So you just,
the talent discrepancy, like the bills,
Chiefs got more players that would start for the bills,
but the bills still have a lot of high level guys.
So it might be 45, 55,
or 40, 60. We're talking like
95-5 in that game.
And as that game went and they started fumbling,
it's just like, you can't do this on the road.
So, like, honestly,
I think they're two years away from being
even remotely close to a team like Philly.
And honestly, like when the Lions are healthy and some of these other teams.
I mean, they have such a head start.
This was just to make the playoffs and be a one and done
would have been the most incredible story we've ever seen.
I think it's crazy.
And the game really got away from Washington toward the end of the third early in the fourth quarter.
I think Jaden Daniels is a remarkable player.
I think he's one of the best players I've ever seen,
given the circumstance of the team he's playing with and his age.
Remember when Andrew Lott got the Colts?
to the AFC Championship, I think, against New England, and they got the shit kicked out of him.
And you were like, that's what I felt like.
I like, oh, my God, this quarter.
Now, I think it was in Lux's third, fourth.
It was his down the road.
Because he went to the playoffs his first three years and he got farther each year.
Yeah, yeah.
And it was.
So I felt the same way.
I'm like, boy, this young quarterback is really good.
But this roster has no business being in the AFC championship.
Washington, Washington's roster is not as good.
It's not as good as Green Bay's.
It's not as good as the Rams.
It's not as good overall as the Seahawks, the Lions, Minnesota.
So it's a great story.
You know, I wrote down a lot of different things during this game.
And, you know, it's weird when it comes to Philadelphia.
Sequin Barclay, I feel like he's faster than Walter Payton and maybe not as strong as Peyton.
He's definitely not as clever or shifty as Barry Sanders, but he's clever and shifty.
but he really is, he really is an all-timer.
I mean, first of all, you get, you get high end speed, you get it quickly.
Because of his size, you know, he's got that short of a shorter size, so he's,
he's hard to see behind the Eagles O line.
So it kind of bursts out of the cloud or the fog.
He can run you over.
He can make you miss.
I always think whenever you see a great player, I remember this, I remember this,
in golf you can see a guy like Brooks Kepka, you're like, yeah, he's just bigger and stronger than
people or Tiger in his prime. But a lot of times you'll watch a pro athlete, like Larry Fitzgerald,
and you're like, yeah, he's fast, but he's not that fast. I mean, he's big, but he's not, is he
that big? And then you're just like, Larry Fitzgerald is always open and hung on to everything.
And you just watch certain athletes, you're like, man, they'll make it look. So it has to be a combination of
like intelligence, instinct, work out, work ethic.
It's a combination.
Sequin's one of those guys where when you watch him, it just, it looks easy.
Like he just makes great players look so bad with one step that it, and that to me has
always been the difference between very good and great to like, oh, that's all time stuff,
is that like Reggie White would just bat
good offensive linemen out of the way
like literally with his off arm
he would bat them away and you're like
okay that's just different than everybody else
Saquan to me is a top five to six running back
I've ever seen in my life
yeah I mean I think a lot of positions
if you're drafted like he was
and it's polarizing when you take a running back
number two overall
because so much out of your control
his O line sucked
they never had a passing game
so if you have no passing game
and you have no offensive line
you could be Barry Sanders or Walter Payton.
It's going to be a struggle.
I grew up on Barry Sanders.
They had an explosive passing game.
Obviously, he was a special player, but I wrote down three guys because I think there's a chance if he stays healthy.
He could have this second kind of lease on life in the NFL and become like a Hall of Fame guy.
Now, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, and Marshall Falk were all guys that like after their third or fourth year, Curtis Martin went to the Jets, Bettis went to the Steelers, and Marshall Falk went to the
to the Rams
Curtis Martin was really good
on the Patriots and Marshall Falk was really
good on the ramps right
and Jerome Bettis was solid
now I don't put Jerome Bettis quite on those two guys
level but like Sequin I would
say most people described his career as like
yeah it was kind of underwhelming
it just wasn't going well it wasn't his fault
because you're watching him on this team
how about the way that game opened
they went like 25 plays watched it on that first drive
they got like 17 fourth downs
and they ended up kicking
a field goal. And I saw Jeff Schwartz tweet this out. He's like, God, that reminds me a lot of
Notre Dame. If that's what you have to do to start a game and only get three points, it's going
to be a long game. The Eagles go one play. He does like a 360, bounces off another guy,
cuts it back for 65, 70 yards. You're like, this does not feel. It was insane that at one point
in time, this game was 14 to 12. Because after that drive and then another early drive,
you're like, this thing could get out of hand. In Washington, and this is where Dan deserves credit.
Jaden deserves credit.
Kept it kind of, I mean, 27, 15 at halftime.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It probably should have been like 40 to 7 at half time, but Washington fought, and then the
wheels came off.
But when you have, and this is where when Jalen's healthy, and they have a running
threat with the quarterback and the running back, what are you really going to do?
I mean, Colin, they ran for seven touchdowns today, ran for seven touchdowns.
And the two of them combined, I mean, what's theyquan had?
He had two and Jalen had three.
I mean, what are you going to do?
The Eagles will never lose again.
if they're getting that type of production in the running game, ever.
I want to talk about this.
This was, it's pretty remarkable.
So let's talk about it.
Let's give this 10 minutes.
So it has to be the most embarrassing moment.
The Eagles have now been to eight NFC championships and four Super Bowls
since the Cowboys have been to one conference championship.
So Philadelphia has separated as franchise.
But the Cowboys announced, Brian,
Schottenheimer as the head coach on a Friday night news dump.
Late, late, late Friday night.
Now, it makes me believe that either Jerry Jones was caught completely flat-footed by Mike McCarthy
choosing to leave, or it's some sort of plan to get the number one pick next year because
Schopenheimer's a nice guy, but he is a
bounce around the league, never really
getting opportunities at the highest level,
Jack, Seattle, can't really maintain jobs.
I said this the other day.
Their lack of urgency on Dax contract
crushed them. And their lack of urgency
on hiring a coach
it's hard to explain.
I don't know how to explain it.
I think it's pretty clear.
You know, Jerry, well, the news dumps very telling.
Jerry runs his franchise for definitely the last 15, 20 years,
like a television show.
He literally was just on one of the more popular ones in the country.
You can't tell me.
I mean, if Jerry liked the hire,
he would have put this thing out in the middle of the night on Sunday
or first thing Monday morning,
so everyone talked about him all week.
Friday night, 10 o'clock.
Friday night, 10 o'clock Eastern. I mean, this was late after country might have been asleep.
I think he thought, listen, they knew coming into the season that Mike McCarthy was on his
contract was ending. So we all knew that we assumed Mike McCarthy was fired. And then Black Monday
came and Mike was not fired. We're like, well, clearly. And people have been talking. Maybe
they're just going to keep him. Jerry thought it could just give him some fake two-year contract.
Like, Mike, where the hell are you going to go? And pretty clear, Mike might have misplaced his hand a little
too because I think he thought he could get the Bears job.
Yeah.
But I think Mike realized kind of maybe half away or toward the end of that week
because he wanted Jason Whitten on his staff.
Jerry was just going to kind of bend him over like, hey, Jerry, I've made a lot of money
in the last 15 years, buddy.
I don't need you, and I'm not just going to acquiesce to everything you want.
And basically told him to kick rocks.
And I think Jerry thought the whole time he could essentially give him like a two-year
contract.
Think about this.
Jerry just hired Brian Chott and I'm.
Jerry's kind of cheap.
Like that's one thing that's pretty telling.
Jerry's not these Ben Johnson, Mike Rable making 12, 13, 14.
Mike McCarthy was making $7 million, right?
Now, granted he was hired five years ago, but he was on a seven-year million dollars.
That's one of the lower-paid coaches in the league.
Would you guess Brian Schottenheimer is making more than $7 million?
There's a decent chance that Brian Schottenheimer is the lowest paid coach in the NFL.
I think we know what Ben Johnson makes.
We know Pete Carole ain't make it seven.
We know Leon Cohen just got 20.
12 or 13 million dollars.
So Jerry's a little cheap.
He misplayed his hand.
And you'd been saying this, and I've always defended Jerry a little bit.
He is really in his Al Davis phase now.
Like they are, that was, sometimes you fire a coach, whatever.
It's time.
But go through that week and then eventually break up with Mike McCarthy and end up a week
later with Brian Schottenheimer.
And once upon a time, Brian Chottonheim remember when he was Rex Ryan's OC and they were
with Mark Sanchez, he was like 37, 38 years old.
He was viewed as a head coach.
That was 15 years ago.
What was the last time Brian Schottenheimer had a head coaching interview?
Has he had one in a decade?
Now, that's not the end-all be-all.
But why would you fire Mike McCarthy, who has accomplished stuff and then hire his
offensive coordinator who's not some valued candidate?
It doesn't make any sense.
He didn't even call plays.
Yeah, McCarthy, you know, it's not below Jerry to actually make calls.
dissuading people from hiring Mike McCarthy because Mike McCarthy suddenly was a hot candidate.
Now he's not even getting interviewed and he's clearly the best candidate on the market.
I mean, the saints, what are the saints going to do?
He'd obviously be the best candidate is I think, you know, and I've said this,
if LeBron didn't go to the Lakers, the Lakers are the Cowboys, they're just circling.
I mean, LeBron has literally saved the franchise.
They were Kobe's last five years.
I think they're the worst win-loss percentage in the league.
It could be wrong, but it was really bad.
So it's just, you know, it's just one of those things where it's not a coincidence when people like Andy Reader successful all the time.
It's not a coincidence when certain GMs have good draft classes over and over and over.
And I think that Dallas Cowboys, the last couple draft classes, have been a week.
I mean, they've missed on their, I mean, they hit on CD Lam and Micah, but their last two first round picks have been weak.
they got work by Dak Prescott again.
They're just, they have really fallen to me, John, and I don't take any pleasure in saying
this, they've become a little like Cleveland.
They're a little like the Jets.
They're not as chaotic, but they're really a second tier franchise.
Like they're not even, they're, they are not remotely close to a top five NFC roster.
Forget AFC.
They're not, they could, they could be the eighth, the ninth best roster in the,
NFC now. Well, think about this. You just hit on, they haven't been in the conference
championship game since what, 96. The Eagles just since that foals, so Foles and then the last two,
Jalen have not only been to three, they won them. I mean, the last two, they played Minnesota
with Foles. They blew them out. Jalen against the Niners, they knocked out Purdy, blew them out,
and tonight they scored 55 points. So they've been to three Super Bowls in the last, what,
eight years, seven years? So you are in a different stratosphere than them.
And then Washington sells the team.
They get a real coach, a superstar quarterback, and a real GM, and they're going to start laughing you.
If I'm a cowboy fan, thank God the Giants have their own issues or we would.
It's that Friday night for a guy that knows just, I mean, one thing he's great about is getting people to talk about his team.
I mean, that's why he talks twice a week.
No other owner says a peep, Colin.
none of them talk at all.
It's not like they don't have biggie.
They realize what's the point?
Why am I going to say a word?
Most GMs, do you notice?
How many GMs come on your television show throughout the year?
Sparingly here and there, but they let the coach and the players talk during the season.
Right?
It's not their time.
Gary talks twice a week, sometimes three times.
I don't blame anyone from talking to him because he gives you incredible quotes,
but that's not a healthy way to operate.
It's just not.
And I thought it was overblown a little bit when, remember when the story came out,
Dak said they have fans walking around the facility.
But once you start losing, you start going, well, where are Jerry's priorities right now?
It's like, does he just want to save some money here with Brian Schottenheimer?
Did he get into a situation that he never thought he'd be in and then didn't know who to talk to?
Of course, Dion wasn't that interested.
Deion doesn't answer to anyone in Colorado.
Jerry tell him everything to do.
That's the other thing.
You go work for the Cowboys.
Listen, Woody Johnson, these guys bug you with dumb ideas.
Jerry's literally telling you, like, who to play, when to play him.
You know, like football.
Like he thinks he's, Al Davis lost his mind.
But at one point in time, Al Davis really knew football.
Like, does Jerry really know?
Like, is Jerry watching tape?
Give me a break, no chance.
I don't even blame it.
But I also wouldn't be an owner if I'm not watching tape telling you what to do.
Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers.
And guess what?
We have some big news.
What's the news?
Huge news.
We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.
We invented a podcast?
Well, we didn't invent it.
We just contributed to it.
We're the first people to do podcasts.
Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.
But this one's extra special.
So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?
I honestly don't remember.
I think it was on a call about what we should call it.
Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.
Before Jonas Brothers was...
This is how you guys remember it going down?
Yes.
I have a very different memory of this.
We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,
for people could call in and say, hey Jonas,
and then I wrote down on my little notepad,
Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.
But thanks for remembering that, guys.
Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcast.
Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,
not quite.
Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.
Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman
help make you funnier.
This week, my guest,
SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel
help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.
Where does your group perform?
We do some retirement homes.
Those people are starving for banter.
Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends
on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior,
and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection.
Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself.
We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming.
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If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more.
Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
Hey, I'm Jared Adano.
You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet.
Help!
Somebody!
But there's so much more to me than that.
I'm an actor.
I'm a comedian.
and recently I've become quite the helper myself.
And on my new podcast, hope from a hypocrite,
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helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions.
Sike, I'm a comedian.
I'm not qualified to give good advice.
Join me and my comedian friends
as we riff rant and recommend some of
the most legally dubious advice known to man.
If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone,
let it ring twice.
One ring is too skinny.
Carrie.
Cream of chicken suit.
Hey, cream.
Cream a chicken suit.
This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know.
Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coultera podcast network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
All right.
You know, I don't get to watch other shows except yours, Nick, because a lot of times I'm on the air.
I pull into the parking lot when Dan Patrick goes on.
So I never get to hear Dan, who does a great job.
I don't get to watch like Stephen A or other shows because either I'm prepping for my show, doing for my show, or driving home.
It's interesting.
When I worked at the other place, I was there for the New England Dynasty, a big chunk of it in the 11 years.
And it was great.
I was, you know, my friends were all either New York giant fans or Patriot fans.
And I never thought the Patriots were the most talented team, although I did think the Ranie Moss years were damn good.
But I thought, I heard a lot of this stuff about officiating.
And I was always like, oh, shit.
I did think the bills got a first down, but there were 13 minutes left, and I don't care.
I'm kind of a believer, and I've said this, I think, to you and others,
when people used to complain about Jordan getting all the calls or the warriors, I would always say this.
How many turnovers did you have?
and how many free throws did you miss?
If the answer combined is 20,
I don't care about that go-either-way
called in the fourth quarter, right?
Like you had 11 turnovers and missed nine free throws.
I'm not going to listen to you.
I thought Buffalo was incredibly lucky.
They fumbled four times and recovered all of them.
I've never heard of that in a playoff game in my life.
No, Colin, there were five fumbles in the game
because Mahomes fumbled, and Buffalo recovered all five.
As far as back as the record books go,
first playoff team ever to do that and lose.
Like, it's very hard to go five for five on fumble recoveries and not win the game.
They got very fortunate on it.
Yeah.
My take on the entire game was very much like Matt Hasselback.
Matt Hasselbeck and I, and Drew Breeze and I agreed that Sean McDermick acknowledged after the game.
Yeah, on the fourth and one stuff, you know, we just kind of let Josh, you know, and we just kind of
to figure, Josh, we're going to kind of let him do it. And I'm like, Andy Reed has never once said,
you know, I'm just going to let Mahomes kind of do it. And I've been on this now, since you've
known me, at FS1 for eight years. I think offensive coaches are better with star quarterbacks
than defensive coaches. And I think one of the things I've said about Brady is where Brady really
deserves credit. He won with Ariens. He won with Belichick, Charlie Weiss. He won with like six
different people. Because remember, Bill didn't really run the offense. It was whoever the coordinator was,
is that I do think, and this is not a shot at Mahomes, all of us in life, some kids grow up with really
doting rich parents and supportive parents, and some kids grow up in chaos, is Mahomes would be
successful regardless. But do you think it's crazy to consider that if Mahomes and Allen's switch
coaches, that Alan would have more Super Bowls today than Mahomes.
Oh, yes. I do think that's crazy. I don't think you would have more Super Bowls than
Mahomes. And I think that, listen, I think Patrick is going to go down as a Mount Rushmore
athlete, not football player athlete. And I think that he has a special innate ability.
that right now no other quarterback
and like the people have been beaten over the head
with the Mahomes stats,
but some of them are just like impossible to believe.
So he already now has more,
the more playoff victories.
Yeah.
When his defense allows 29 points than any quarterback in NFL history.
So he has four.
He has won four playoff games when his defense allowed 29 points.
points. That's Tom did it, I think. Peyton did it, I think, three times and Tom did it once,
or I have it vice versa. But no one's done that. That Patrick has played 20, and then I'm going to
get to the Josh Allen piece of this. Patrick has played 20 playoff games, okay?
11 of them were what I would call easy wins. They were leading in the fourth quarter led the whole way.
The nine games, Colin, that he was not, that he trailed in the fourth quarter, six of them,
he won. One of them, he forced overtime against New England, never touched the ball.
Another one, he forced overtime against Cincinnati, did not come through and lost. And the other one,
they were down 31 to 9 against the Bucks entering the fourth. So again, and put a little
finer point on that, in his playoff career, in the fourth quarter trailing by one score,
he has had 14 possessions.
They have tied or taken the lead 13 times.
And so, and the one time he didn't, he then got the ball back and did it.
So do you believe, though, that Andy Reed is a, is a prominent part of that?
A hundred percent, absolutely.
But I also believe the knock on Andy before Patrick came into his life was brilliant play
designer, but in these exact moments I'm describing, gets tight and messes up the clock or
situationally isn't buttoned up. That's how you lose a 28-point lead to the Colts with
Alex Smith. That's how you lose an eight and in the playoffs, an 18-point lead to Marcus Marriota.
Andy was the chief's coach when those things happened. So I think it's the perfect marriage.
I think Andy is the perfect preparer of offense and plays and all of it.
And Patrick is the steadiest hand in the world.
And so to me, it's like the most brilliant medical school professor pairing up with the most naturally gifted surgeon ever.
Like, he is going to give you all of the tools and then you're going to, you know,
be the one with the steady hand going to do it.
So that, so that part is, and I think Josh is excellent.
I also think that Josh had the ball three and a half minutes left down three and got 17 yards and zero points.
And that's a year after getting the ball back with six minutes left down three and got 40 yards and zero points.
Like that's not Patrick.
That's not Andy.
That's, that's in those moment, the fourth and five play Josh was excellent.
First down, second down, he was not, which set up the third and ten, which set up the fourth and five.
Here is the thing I want to say about the sneaks, Colin.
And this is where I'm surprised more teams don't.
More contending teams don't take a page out of the Chief's notebook.
Why at some point during the year didn't the bills say internally?
Okay, guys, I think we pretty much well know how to run this snake.
can we work on a couple other short yardage things?
Thank you.
Thank you.
A, teams have to prepare for other things.
Yeah.
And B, even though we've been basically undefeated on it, if somebody has a wrinkle that can stop it,
we have a pivot point.
Instead, they just ran the same thing all year because it was so successful.
And that should be the lesson of the chiefs.
The Chiefs early in the year, people like, oh, Kelsey's washed.
And it's like, okay, he's obviously slowing down.
But is it, is it that he's washed or is it that they are saying, hey, it hasn't happened in years.
But what if someone in a playoff game takes him away?
Let's make sure Xavier Worthy's ready.
Let's make sure everybody else is ready.
And then in the AFC championship game, he has his worst game in five years in the playoffs.
And other guys step up.
If you're contending for a championship, sometimes preparing to win the title is not the same as making sure every single possession of my week seven game against the Jets is the highest EPA.
And that's where the chiefs have been brilliant.
And that's where the bills, I think, have not been.
I don't think fans understand this.
If you watched, I mean, I'm not going to give away where I heard this.
But it comes from a good source.
Belichick can't even speak offensive football.
Like defensive coaches, they don't really understand offensive football.
That's not what they do.
And one of the things I've always pointed to, and I think I'm the only guy talking about this regularly, pat myself in the back, have you noticed how offensive coaches can rearrange the deck chairs with an offensive line within an off season and fix it?
Andy's done it twice.
McVeigh's done it two to three times.
the season.
McBade has done it multiple times.
This year, they were terrible in the first five weeks.
By the end of the year, Stafford never got touched.
Defensive coaches can't do that.
Tomlin's on seven straight years of battle lines.
I mean, Jeff Schwartz showed during the playoff loss,
the Steelers offensive line mayhem,
they didn't know where they were going.
I mean, they were literally often pulling to the wrong place.
Offensive coaches speak the language of offense,
and the league has pivoted to reward.
them. It's almost like if Trump, you know, when Trump goes out and says, hey, I am pro,
you know, Bitcoin, cryptocurrency, I am pro cryptocurrency. Well, you know, that benefits people
in the industry. Like the NFL's basically said over the last 10 years, we're going to go offense.
We're going to literally change the game. And so there's a big chunk of these defensive
coaches. They don't speak it. They don't speak it. They don't understand the language.
And what you're asking, which is, why wouldn't they create a second play?
Well, that's not their natural instinct.
That's not who they are.
Andy Reed, in the off-season, will send me plays.
He's working on that he found on YouTube from Rose Bowles in the 40s.
He's like, hey, I'm not going to tell you what I'm going to use this.
Don't share this.
Look at this play.
That's not what defensive coaches do.
And I think it's just an innate advantage, the great.
So what do you think they should do?
because the thing is because I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
And I also, it's like, but there isn't, A, the proven excellent offensive coach available.
B, Belichick took the Carolina job.
So it's not like, hey, let's just get better situationally.
And, you know, even if it's short term, he's beaten Andy, he's beaten Patrick.
And I understand the folks who are like, man, if it's, if it's
been this long, you haven't broken through against this team, even if McDermott's an excellent
coach, sometimes what happens to Mark Jackson, to elevate to Steve Kerr, as Brew talks about
needs to happen. I get all that. But can you take the risk of this part of Josh Allen's prime
of where handing the reins over to a first time unknown head coach because he's an offensive guy?
Yeah, no, I think, listen, I think so was Sean McVeigh and so was Matt LaFleur. I think you just
was all the guys who failed?
Like, you don't want to go ahead.
No, Sean McDermott, I think my comp has always been Chuck Knox.
I'm saying, this is my age, but Chuck Knox was known as an organizer, highly competent,
B plus coach, CHawks, Bills.
If you were a shit show, he got you on the right path.
But he was called Ground Chuck, because the playoffs would come and like Marty Schottonheimer,
he got hyper conservative.
And I just think that's your fate in life, is that sometimes, Nick, you know, let's just take
our business, for instance.
is that some people in my age don't do social media.
I think it's a huge disadvantage.
I do a ton of social media.
I've got a TikTok clip on Ronnie today.
It'll get three million people.
I feed into it.
I'm into it.
I love it.
Not everybody 60 plus with gray hair is into all these social media platforms.
The world we're in has changed.
TV doesn't drive all the business.
I'm comfortable with it.
There are other things in other industries people aren't comfortable with.
The NFL's culture has changed.
it's all offense.
And so a lot of these defensive coaches,
they're beholden to hiring the right OC.
And the minute, you know,
Josh McDaniels and Brady leaves,
Belichick's screwed.
There's nothing he can do.
He didn't know what he's doing.
Let's both think of something
where we were the most wrong
we've been all football season.
So I'll give you what it is and why it is.
And I'll let you think.
So you know this is how I think.
I love, I think it matters.
I want my quarterback to have,
have a little artist, but mostly be an accountant.
I want you to go.
I want you to have kind of Matt Ryan, Jalen Hertz personality, Justin Herbert.
Stand up there, talk about the team, put out fires, be in line.
Brady's as good as anybody.
For as big as star as Mahomes is, he really always just says nice things.
He's figured out the art.
My buddy, my former intern, sorry to interrupt, in Kansas City, who I'm sure hates that I always call my former intern.
because he's now the afternoon drive host on 610 in Cannes City and has been for a long time.
He has a weekly interview with Patrick Mahomes and has had it for years.
And God bless Carrington Harrison, who does a great job.
That poor guy never ever gets any news out of it because Patrick says nothing.
He's had a weekly exclusive interview with Patrick Mahomes for five years.
And if you ever played one clip of it on your show,
is probably not because Patrick is just so trained to say nothing, to say absolutely nothing.
But go ahead.
So, and that's how I like my quarterbacks.
I've said this, Johnny Mansell, Baker Mayfield, James Winston, Cam Newton.
If I see ego, if I see self-importance, if I see Jay Cutler grumpiness, I just do not like it.
And I think I've overwhelmingly been right.
So I watched Nick Sariani's opening press conference.
It's the worst I've ever seen.
He's terrible at the podium.
He wore a jersey at the last time after last win.
He's yelled at fans.
He's gone after players and he's had position coaches hold him back.
His methodology stinks.
And yet, they love him.
And I'm like, this is ridiculous.
This is the exact opposite of what I want my coach to be.
And I, so I've come to try to figure it out.
And I went and watched in Chicago.
I went and watched the comedian Sebastian Manichausco,
very, very funny guy, great performer.
reminds me a lot of Chris Rock. He's like Ollie and his prime. I mean, he's got the look, the
physicality. He's really a performer, very funny. And a lot of his act is his Italian family and how
dysfunctional and how they yell at each other. And the love is so deep and embedded in the family.
And I've learned this. Cultures are different. There are couples that argue that yell at each other.
And I'm like, oh, this isn't going to work. And they've been married 37 years. And I imagine the makeup sex is great.
Like they just get along.
It just works.
And I've come to terms with Siriani is that in a highly emotional city, with a highly intense GM and fan base and radio media that's just barking and make, he just fits.
He is the family member.
He can handle the BS.
He can handle the noise.
He sometimes he's half fan.
I just thought this is, he's very dependent on coordinator.
Here's the thing, man.
Everything you're saying is fair.
I still can't get there with him.
Like, everything you're saying is true.
Here's what's also true.
Had they blocked Jalen Carter, they being the Rams,
on that third down in round two,
I think it's possible he was fired 10 days ago.
If after that, if up 13 against the Rams,
with Jalen Hertz injured and then up six when he called that that bootleg role play action
rollout on second and seven and that resulted in a dozen yard sack and all of a sudden
Stafford's driving down the field down six chance to steal the game.
I think they might have gotten rid of him.
Now instead he's a game way from having the greatest start to a career or any coach ever.
I don't know what to make of it.
I because everything, every instinct I have.
says, well, this guy's just a doofus.
The same.
But you have, like, if any position should be judged based on their record, it should
be head coach.
And his record is historically good.
So I don't, it really tests a lot of my beliefs of what should and what does work in
the NFL.
And so, yeah, this one, I mean, this off season, they,
totally, you know, what's the word that's always used in political Twitter?
Definish straighted him, I think is the word.
They didn't even let him pick his own coordinators.
You know what I mean?
Early in the year, he's freaking out yelling at his fans after a win.
Even after the NFC championship game, Jalen hurts.
It's like, yeah, coach finally let me out of my straight jacket.
Like that's a weird thing.
And the whole, so I don't know, but they haven't lost a game that Jalen started and finished in four months.
And they're playing in the second Super Bowl in two years or in three years.
So, yeah, that one baffles me.
That's my worst.
I was basically perfect on my AFC preseason takes.
Same.
Well, on predicting, it's become a very easy conference in the standings to predict.
And so I got, and I could not have been more wrong about the NFC.
So I obviously famously had the Bears not only making the playoffs or winning the conference,
but I also had the Eagles missing the playoffs.
I did.
I had Washington finishing ahead of the Eagles.
And my rationale was, man, something really weird happened last year to that team.
And I don't trust this coach to pull them out of it.
And I also thought Seekwon Berkeley would be good, but not great for them.
But instead, Seekwan had one of the greatest years.
any running backs had in the history of football.
Can I ask you a question?
Sure, yeah, go ahead.
After this year, take this year out of it.
This group of quarterbacks,
the Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar,
that group, they're all 28, 29.
Let's say, optimistically,
they all have 10 more good years.
That's probably on the high end,
but let's give them a decade.
10 more seasons, the 2025 season onward.
Man, at least one of those guys is never making, much less winning a Super Bowl, like moving forward.
So I know Joe's already made, because here's the way I was thinking about it.
I'm like, okay, because everyone's like, do you think Josh will eventually get one?
And intellectually, I'm like, yes, of course, he's a second best player in the league.
Of course, he'll get one.
But then I'm like, well, wait a minute.
Okay, so in the next 10 years, let's say Patrick slows down.
He only makes four of the next 10.
Or Andy, Andy Reid retires.
Yeah.
So let's just say Patrick only makes four of the next 10.
So there's six.
So that's six for Lamar, Josh, Joe.
I know you've got Justin Herbert getting to one eventually.
Bo Nix, C.J. Stroud.
and we're talking about 10 years.
So is a couple more generations coming into the league?
Like these guys, all of these guys being in the AFC is devastating for the resumes they're trying to build.
Well, and the one that's in trouble is Joe Burrow.
The Bengals had to sell naming rights to the stadium to pay his contract.
People don't understand this.
The gentlemen who, first of all, the Bengals don't have any money.
They don't have any money.
It's just like the poorest ownership group.
Joe Burrow knows it.
They had to sell naming rights to a stadium to pay them.
They started peeling off players even before they paid Jamar Chase.
They're peeling off of them now.
Yeah, they haven't paid Jamar yet.
Yeah.
Yeah. And they're already peeling off players.
They are the opposite of the Eagles.
They are anti-risk and reward.
They take no risk.
Tobin, the general manager, has been there forever.
Pleasant, very nice guy.
Got no power.
I mean, the Brown family.
runs the organization. They are essentially a AAA operation in Major League Baseball that happens to have
Joe Burrow. People make fun of the Raiders. The Raiders, because of some new ownership groups that
have come in, are flush with cash. That's why they can pay four coaches and three general managers.
They got nothing but money. They got, Mark Davis has nothing but money. And the Raiders are a brand.
And also, it's Las Vegas. It's a growing city. There's real money there. No state tax. Very
attractive place. Cincinnati, they got no money. Burrow, they'll never have a stacked roster.
The only time to really be great with him was when he was on the rookie contract. When they pay Jamar Chase,
they're out of money. Like Joe Burrow, I feel terrible for him. Joe Burrow would need to be superhuman.
I mean, this year, he was as good as he's ever been. They couldn't make the playoffs.
Herbert's going to get better with Harbaugh. Like, that's going to only get better. Right. That's what I'm saying.
You're just.
Herbert, I think Burroughs the one in trouble.
And here's the other, here's the other concern for all those guys.
Will they, maybe different for Joe because he's done it.
But will those guys be able to play Patrick Mahomes, beat him, which is part of the hypothetical,
and then psychologically be able to re-center and be like,
like that wasn't the Super Bowl.
Not like we like that's the thing that I would worry about for the bills.
Not I do think listen,
Mahomes is not going to go undefeated against Alan in his career in the playoffs.
They will win.
But man, if next year the bills finally beat the chiefs in the playoffs,
it's going to be really hard to psychologically then reset and be like actually the next
game's the tougher, bigger one.
And so that's, I, the, we have never, I can't remember a time when it felt this disproportionate in quarterbacking talent conference to conference.
And what it's going to mean for these guys kind of legacies when it comes to who they were as far as winning players or winning championships.
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