The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Nick Wright on (NFL) Rodgers/Jets Red Flags, (NBA) Ja Morant Concerns, Dave Wannstedt on NFL Draft/Combine

Episode Date: March 11, 2023

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, Colin’s top takes, including why the Ravens are hesitant to pay Lamar Jackson like other elite NFL QB’s, why he’s losing interest in the NFL Scouting Combine, and why it’s become less relevant to NFL front offices. Then, First Things First co-host - and host of the What's Wright? podcast - Nick Wright joins Colin to discuss if the Giants overpaid Daniel Jones, and the signs Aaron Rodgers to the Jets could be a bust. Next, Nick and Colin Jump to the NBA to discuss the race debate surrounding Nikola Jokic possibly winning his 3rd straight MVP, if the LeBron and Anthony Davis are still a threat in the West despite a disintegrated relationship, if Ja Morant flashing a gun in a social media video is cause for greater concern. Then, former Bears and Dolphins HC and FOX NFL analyst Dave Wannstedt on if NFL teams should be concerned about Alabama QB Bryce Young’s lack of size, how much weight NFL teams should give to the Combine, positional value in the draft, if Aaron Rodgers could still end up returning to the Packers after another offseason of drama, and why teams should be hesitant to pull the trigger on a trade for him. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the test content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Visit www. www.md.gamblinghelp.org, Maryland. 18778-8-Hope, New York, or text Hope, New York, 467-369, New York. 1-800-2-4700, Wyoming, or visit www. www.1-800 gambler.net, West Virginia. This is Prime Cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast. So a little preamble before I go into Nick Wright. on Lamar Jackson. So the Ravens, as reported, have offered him a non-exclusive franchise tag.

He won't like it. He being Lamar Jackson. Meaning, the Ravens are saying, we like you, but test the market. If somebody makes a big offer, they can match. But the Ravens are rolling the dice, thinking there won't be a significant market for Lamar Jackson. Now, you all know I like Lamar Jackson. Dynamic, wow qualities when 75% of it starts. J.J. Watt went on to social media, Twitter, and asked the question, what am I missing? My response to J.J. Watt would be, you're not missing anything. Lamar Jackson's missing something. Games. He's missed 10 of the Ravens last 22. Games. Not available? Don't care how talented you are. Last two years, he's been banged up by the end of the year.

So I've said this before. Bryce Young, I think he's really good. But as the quarterback position has evolved to more mobile, more athletic, more running, smaller quarterbacks, these guys are not all built to play 15, 20 years. They're not. Smaller quarterbacks in vogue, running quarterbacks in vogue. I get it. Teams saying, listen, we're going to roll it for four or five years.

We're not giving you big guaranteed money. from year five to year nine. Mahomes overwhelmingly pocket quarterback gets his money. Josh Allen runs, but he's 6.6.250. That's why he gets his money. Cam got his money and Ben got his money. But if you're seen as slight, if you're seen as somebody that has to excel out of the pocket,

if you've been banged up more than once, Lamar Jackson has, his last 15 starts. He's got an 85 passer rating. A lot of people no longer see him as. an ascending quarterback. He's a slightly regressing quarterback. So I can like Lamar, but as the quarterback position has evolved to a more athletic position, people are rolling the dice on guys that move more and guys that are smaller. I've said it with Bryce Young. I think he's the best quarterback. He's 5, 10 and a half. He weighed in at 204 at the Combine. You and I know he's going to play at

about 193. He's 20 pounds light and 3 inches short. So I draft him. but two years later, I draft another quarterback. If he can get you out of purgatory, if he can get you out of the abyss, I'm Houston, I draft him. But I don't think he's at 401k here. That's day trading. You're going to need another quarterback in three or four years. And I think Baltimore's come to that conclusion,

is if the market says Lamar's got four or five teams bidding on him, then Baltimore's going to have to pay up. They're betting that is not the case. The Atlanta Falcons already come out, not interested. Miami Dolphins already come out, not interested. I think Baltimore says culture, coach, GM owner, roster, if we can't get the right number, we're going to load up, get good at every position, and we'll find our Brock Purdy in the second, third, or fourth round at quarterback.

So the last two years, I have watched less and less NFL Combine. And I'm going to describe right now, and this could bore some of you, but one of the reasons I love coming on this podcast that it's different than my show podcast is I can take on topics and discuss things that I would never discuss, obviously, in my show. I'm going to talk a little bit about the process of the way I do this business. So I've always said, you drive the bus. I'm not loyal to platforms and I'm not loyal to leagues. When I started in this business, I did a lot more college football than it got very regional. And over the last seven, eight, nine years with Alabama and Clemson's dominance, I did less college football. This year, I did more college football than I've ever done because I thought the West Coast had a little bit of a renaissance.

Michigan had a renaissance. So I want the Michigan's and the U.S.Cs and the Notre Dame's to be viable, not just three southern schools. And so I talked more college football. And the ratings went up in college football. So 15 years ago, I moved off baseball. Why? Because I watched the ratings. And I watched slowly the attendants go down and the ratings go down and the social currency

go down. And so I am loyal to what you're watching. Okay? It's like it's a grocery store. What you're buying, I'm selling. And so the NFL Combine doesn't get huge ratings. But in the last couple of years, I used to really be into it. not as much as the draft of the season or the playoffs or college football, but I like the combine.

It's a beauty page, I always understood that. But when Sean McVeigh says, I'm not going. This year, Bill Balliachek, Matt LaFleur, I'm not going. I had a conversation with a general manager in the NFL earlier last week. And, you know, I threw out my theory to him that was, I said, if you told a young person, Trent Dilford told me this years ago, 75% of NFL play, players don't love football. They love what football provides for them, but they don't really love football. Tony Gonzalez, the Hall of Fame tied in once told me he thought 3% of players

loved the game, not the lifestyle, the game, and putting in the effort for the game. And so one of the things I've thought a lot about with the combine is, I think more teams get fooled than actually find a gym. Because if you go to the last 10 drafts and you look at some of the great combine performances, teams are overdrafting players. And so when you combine some of the reaches in the draft with Dilfer and Tony Gonzalez's theory, let me just throw this out to you. If I told you, listen, if you work really hard for the next eight to ten weeks and get in the best shape of your life, you're going to be richer than you ever dreamed.

And you're going to go first or second round, even though a year ago you were thought of as a third or a fourth rounder, would you put in the work? Of course you would. much different than playing a season than working out in Arizona or Miami at an academy for eight to ten weeks, prepping for the interviews, getting abs back, putting in the time that you would have to put in on a daily basis if you're an NFL player. So you get these guys that come in and they're in the best shape of their life. They have been, they know exactly the questions they'll be asked.

And I think what happens is people get fooled. people get absolutely fooled. And I think it's just, it's, it's our human nature. If we're going to be rewarded, we're going to really focus. And that's why to me, Belichick, Sean McVeigh, Matt LaFleur, I'm going to pass. They don't want to get fooled. Go watch game tape. Game tape's the truth because you have to play hurt in games.

You have to play against people that are bigger and stronger than you. How do you react to that? That's the NFL. That's real. A game tape in the SEC or big team. That's real, a real performance. Not 10 to 12 weeks of working out in Arizona and Miami, getting in the greatest shape of your life, therefore getting a payday soon thereafter in the NFL draft.

It's not real life. And I think for all of us, I want to see your actual resume, job performance. What were you like for four to five years at your job? Not prepping for an interview with me. Players now prep for the wonder lick. You can practice the wonder lick. It used to be if a guy scored. high. It was just he was brilliant. Now guys score in the 30s and I think some of the times I'm like,

I don't know. They make really bad decisions as a quarterback. How do they get a 36 on the wonder lick? So I see the numbers for the combine. I've peeled back on my combine top. I just don't think it's as relevant as I thought it was years ago. Get off the bench, bet the NBA with Fandul, America's number one sports book. Right now Fandul is giving new customers 10 times your first bet in bonus bets. doesn't matter if your first bet is an airball. You'll get up to $200 in bonus bets, win or lose. Okay. All on a top-rated sportsbook app at Fandul that's safe, secure, easy to use.

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dot net west virginia so let's start with daniel jones you're in new york four years 160 million this back shit crazy colin but go ahead sorry i went back to duke where he had an offensive coach a legend cutcliff david cutcliff yeah of course very the manning family excellent guy in college he had 52 touchdowns and 29 picks if you add in the fumbles it's like 52 to 35 It's not even two to one. It's like one and a half to one ratio. In the NFL, 72 touchdowns running or throwing, 57 turnovers, fumbles or picks. So Mahomes obviously is the class of the league, four to one.

Other great quarterbacks give you two and a half to three to one. Daniel's not two to one. Daniel is closer to one and a half to one. I got a worse ratio for you, Colin. post-rooky year, more games played than touchdown passes. More games started at quarterback than touchdown's throne. He is, last year was the best year we've ever seen him. He threw 15 touchdown passes.

It is, this is why the franchise tag exists. So if a guy who in a contract year has an outlier season, and again, everyone's like this. He was great this year. He had 15 touchdown passes. You can then be like, okay, show it to us one more time. And I am shocked that the Giants made this decision. All year, this is the thing that's so baffling to me.

People were arguing Brian Daibald should be coach of the year. I agreed with them in large respect because they were like, look at what he's doing with Daniel Jones. And now they're like, here's $160 million, Daniel Jones. I thought what they would do this year was franchise Jones and risk taking a step back for the sake of information, meaning they're saying, okay, Daniel,

you actually have to play the real position now. Right. It's not just safe layups, run the ball, run you. We're going to have to have a, we're going to throw a sophisticated passing offense at you and see if you can sink or swim. And if you swim, we'll pay you. Because now they're in a weird spot where they have paid him. And I think they have to run this high school offense again.

And I'll give a guy credit, Greg Rosenthal, who works for the NFL. NFL.com writes good stuff. He's a smart guy. Because I didn't think about this. He said he thinks that ownership maybe had a say in this. Absolutely. That ownership who had a relationship with Eli and held on to him too long that they like how he carries himself, who he is as a person, and that they put their finger on the scale.

Because I can't imagine Shane and Dable want to be tied to him for at least two more years. years and probably three. No, this has always been my takeaway. This is a Blue Blood franchise. When I was in Connecticut, most of my friends were Giants fans and Yankee fans. And so, you know, I listened. I went out and drank and I hung out with Yankee and Giant fans. And there's, first of all, giant fans have had a lot of success like Yankee fans.

Yeah. They're often older. They're like Michigan Wolverine fans. They've been good since the 40s. So they tolerate a little more. They're a little more patient, right? Sure. And I always said, even when the Giants win, they're an accounting firm.

They've never won and you went, wow, what a spectacular. That's not what they are. Yeah. They take pride in intelligence, grinding, work ethic. That is their brand. Like the Ravens, have they ever had a good team that wasn't tough as shit? They get, they are physical. Right.

right? The Raiders want to be fast. There are certain, the Steelers want to have great linebackers and play defense. There are certain things we know. So the Mara family, he looks like Eli. Big lie. I mean, their haircuts are the same. Southern. Yep.

Carries himself. Yep. It does all that stuff. There's no doubt. They don't want to get on the carousel. So by the time this airs tomorrow, I still think Aaron Rogers will be a packer. but everybody flew out. Woody Johnson, Robert Salad, Joe Douglas, Nathaniel Hackett.

They all flew out to California. By the way, I'm sorry. I just have to get this one-liner in and then you can do your thing. The irony of the professional athlete, maybe outside of Kyrie Irving, maybe including Kyrie Irving, who has lectured us more on the hideousness of Big Pharma, having literally the heir of the Johnson and Johnson Farma Corporation, woo him to go with. Like, does Aaron know he's about to go work for big pharma?

I'm not sure, but go ahead. Sorry, as you were. So they went out to go see him, yeah. And, you know, there's multiple reports. Mike Silver is somebody as part of the volume. Mike Silver breaks a lot of NFL sorts. He's been all over this. Yeah.

He's been all over it. He had in his column for Bally's the other day kind of buried in it. Like, oh, and by the way, keep your eye on Houston with Jimmy Garapola. And I hadn't seen that anywhere. And now I'm seeing it pop up a few places. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. But go ahead. So Silver's been all over.

The Packers are done with it. Yeah. So the Packers done with Aaron. And Aaron made a point this week to basically crap on Ian Rappaport and Adam Schaefter saying, they don't know anybody in my circle. So I think that scares off some reporters. So all the leaks are coming from Green Bay. And all the leaks are the exact same thing, which is, we are done with Aaron Rogers.

So they are. I think Aaron to the Jets could actually be really ugly. Now, he'll make them better. But let me throw this at you. Buffalo's got a better quarterback and a better roster. Mr. Bill O'Brien, for all his critics, was winning a division with Brock Osweider. He's a competent offensive coordinator with Bill Belichick. I also think Bill O'Brien's actually a good head coach.

Yeah. He also doubled as the worst general manager I've ever seen. And so Bill O'Brien, the GM, hot out the legs of Bill O'Brien, the head coach. But go ahead. Sure and Mike McDaniel were tearing the league up to Thanksgiving, tearing the league up. forget the rest of the AFC where he's no longer an ascending player he's no longer hungry

Burroughs is Mahon still is Alan is Lamar is Trevor these are hungry committed ascending players Nick I think it's very possible he's a third place quarterback at this point in his career Well so I so let me add a different piece to it

year over year the best offenses pretty much stay the same unless there's a major change. Best defenses change a lot. Wildly. So that I, listen, I think the Jets have awesome defensive personnel, but I also think it happens that a team that was the third best defense in football one year,

a couple bounces go differently, a couple, you play a couple tougher quarterbacks, and all of a sudden you're the 11th best defense. Yes. So I think that they, Great point. Everyone's like they won seven games with the worst quarterbacking in the NFL. They did. But so now what if they have the 10th best quarterback in the NFL?

Okay. But what if the defense goes from winning them five games to only winning them three games? And so I think that is absolutely in play that that same defensive personnel doesn't all, you know, have the outstanding years they had. So that's concerning. The division is concerning. Here's what is also concerning. Do you know who the Jets play this year out of division? Mahomes and the Chiefs, Herbert and the Chargers, Jalen Hertz and the Eagles.

I bet that defense isn't quite as highly ranked. Yeah, of course, yeah. And so it's tough, right? And so then there's the, so I'm conflicted on this, on a principled level. I think the, as a union guy, you know this about me. My dad ran firefighters union. I'm a union guy. I'm not management.

I almost hate believing this. And I'll explain what this is. Sorry, I'm building a long bridge. During the last CBA, the players wanted more money, the owners wanted them to have less money. The owner said, okay, we don't want to pay you more.

How about we ask you to work less? Less off-season, less mandatory days. And the players said, okay, deal. And I think the owners shrewdly understood, we kind of have an unspoken ally in the entirety of sports media that will shame any player that doesn't do the optional stuff. So even though it's optional and now you don't have to do it, you're going to get killed if you don't do it. So I tend to be like, hey, I don't show up for a lot of work I'm not paid to go to. I get it. I do feel one can make an argument.

it's a little different with the quarterbacks. And it is not lost on me that the guy who held the trophy at the end of the year and not only showed up to everything, organized his own preseason in Texas to work with his new receivers. And Aaron, it skipped all of it with the Packers, right, skipped the whole off season that was optional. And then what did we see? The first six weeks of the season, they're not on the same page. and then, and I imagine this is super frustrating for Green Bay, all of a sudden Christian Watson might win damn rookie of the year by the end of it.

Once they get on the same page, they're clicking. And I'm sure there's a level of, damn it, if you guys had been there from week one, if we win one more game, we're in the playoffs, we win two, you know, and so here's why I bring all that up. If I'm the Jets, I really, really want to know. Are you here for everything? it. Are you go, this is a whole new team. I know you know Nat Hackett, so you're going to know

the system, but are you going to spend the offseason with my players to get on the same page? If you are, then I am much more interested than if it's, I'll show up for the mandatory mini camp and training camp. It's too many young players and knew everything to just parachute in. I just think that is, I think that's a legitimate question. to ask and I don't listen I don't know Aaron I don't know what he's going to do but it it the tendency of the last few years makes you think he's going to say I'm not doing OTAs right I've got a hike to go on or something also Aaron doesn't like to be controlled by the media he doesn't have an owner in Green Bay he controls the small town media so there are some basic built-in advantages that Aaron has

been accustomed to. He didn't go to a football power. He went to Cal. He had more power. Green Bay, no owner, more power. Pushes back heavy on the media. Why? Because he lacked power. Green Bay, the organization, he's pushed the front office around. Here's something no athlete has in New York. True power, right? The media, sports talk, harsh columnists, the fans, talk, talk radio, literally controls GMs. It gets very reactionary. So my question about Aaron isn't the football. It's the off the field stuff. The paparazzi can't control them. You can hide in L.A. in Malibu. You can't hide in New York. You have to go to Jersey and live in the forest. Aaron's going to have to give up some personal control. He'll get major pushback from a left-leaning

media. He's not going to get in the Midwest. And I think, I think the football stuff, he'll be better than last year. But New York is not going to be pushed around by Aaron. They're just not. Yeah. And I just, this is a good, lessons, maybe the wrong word. But there is, people can be as high maintenance at, I try to be. and I actually, like, I think I'm not going to obviously, like, name names or whatever of our colleagues,

like industry-wide, but I think people know the people that seem to have remained pretty normal people, even as the fame and everything has grown. And the people who, in a also somewhat normal way, once they've gotten very famous and very wealthy, have started to act a little differently. And you know what I mean? Treat people differently. whatever it is. I think I will name this name in a positive way. It seems to me from my interactions,

I've ever heard that Ernie Johnson, Scott Van Pelt are two of the nicest people in the media. You know what I mean? That treat people well, do all these things. And they're super famous and accomplished, right? You don't have to do that if you're that level of successful, talented, and valuable. but the moment you stop being quite as valuable and talented, man, people remember how they've been treated, what a pain in the ass you've been. And there's not a lot of, like, grace.

Like there's not a lot of, and people, the Packers seem to be active. Like, if I were the Jets, I would have paused by the fact that the Packers are done with this guy. Yeah. Whether we trade for him or not, they're done with it. They have more information on him than anybody. They're like, we've had our fault.

You know what I mean? It was a good run, but we're done with it. And that would be at least a little concerning to me because I don't think he's a great player. I think he's a good player. I don't think he's a great player anymore. People keep saying he won two MVP's. He did. And then this year he was average.

Not by his standards. By his standards, the worst year of his career. By NFL standards, he was average. So very expensive. Oldest quarterback in the league, right? He's the oldest now.

Brady's gone. He's got to be. Expensive, old, deteriorating and a lot to deal with? I don't know, man. I don't know. Well, I mean, Trevor Lawrence, Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, they're just bigger, stronger athletes. Lamar Jackson's faster.

Mahomes is more accurate. Burrow is more accurate. I mean, it happens to all of us. I'll know it at some point. I can see young, talented people out there. Aaron isn't as big as the good ones. Isn't as fast. Isn't as healthy.

Isn't as committed? We have to just be honest. Burrough. These guys are like when you watch Mahomes, he is the greatest come from behind quarterback, not by a little. Aaron doesn't have that skill. Burrow now and Mahomes are the best situational quarterbacks, period on the planet. Josh Allen does things that even Mahomes can't do. He's physically. He's the best physical specimen.

So he'll say some nice about Josh Allen. It's not a knock. Aaron's six one and a half, 39 years old. And it would like be if I didn't prep for my show. He doesn't commit in the off-season. So he's like a 92-passer rating guy now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw, Unthinker. filtered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest

moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. I love talking to Nick about hoops. I think if you watch my show and have listened to my show for years, you know I'm an NFL NBA guy with some college football.

I want to start with discussing a place I used to work ESPN. This week, there was a moment, Nick, where Kendrick Perkins, sort of push back on Yokic, Steve Nash, and Dirk Nevitzky winning MVP's. So what Kendrick Perkins was asserting is there have been three white players, Dirk Novitsky, Dallas, Steve Nash, Phoenix a couple of times, and Yokic, who are not top 10 in scoring, but are winning MVP's. He said, what do they all have in common? J.J. Reddick fired back, asserting that Kendrick

Perkins was playing, you know, the race card and it was unfair. It was a highly contested moment. And it was pretty riveting television. And I'm wondering, Nick, because you've been outspoken where you think Yokic is an overstated player, what was your reaction to that, you know, very turbulent TV moment? I didn't see the whole segment, but I saw the clip. So I will preface it with that. There is nothing.

And I know we're going to talk about this, but I'm really glad we are. There are very, very few things that make me more frustrated than when people who know better, smart people act like someone invoking the idea that race could play a part in things means they are calling giant swaths of people racist. Right. Kendrick did not call NBA voters racist. Kendrick raised the point, I believe what he raised was in NBA history or in the last 50 years, whatever it is, there have been three guys to win league MVP without, or in the last 40 years, I think, without being in the top 10 in scoring. And it was Dirk, Nash, and B. Yokic this year. And in the last 60 years, there's been one guy to win three straight MVP's Larry Byrd.

and now it looks like it's going to be Yokic now. You raise that point and clearly implied race is a factor. That does not mean you are calling everyone races. That's right. It is no different than when I talk about offensive coordinators who've made it to the Super Bowl and the coaching opportunities they've gotten. And then there's Eric B.Namy and Byron left, which I think race has played a factor, even if it is a subconscious factor in this.

And I think that if we are just flatly analyzing the Yokic situation, since 1980, three guys have won an MVP with a team not being a top three or four seed. Moses in 82, Russ, the triple double year that you may, mentioned, Yokic's last year. So right or wrong, that was an aberrant event. That was in a, so he got an exception there, right? I just said in the last 60 years, only one guy is won three in a row. Yeah.

So him winning three in a row would be an exception to what the history is. Sure. Is it in play that there is, and I saw some, an NBA trainer, a white NBA trainer, I forget who it is actually tweeted this. I think it's an interesting point. His belief that the general media, the white general media, tends to subconsciously, maybe unintentionally, underrate good white players. They think, ah, probably not that good.

The guys who are like, actually, you know, those guys, actually get underrated by maybe a guy like JJ Redding. Right. Maybe JJ didn't get enough credit for how good of a player he was because he was white. That doesn't mean they're racist. It means race works in our brains, a bunch of them of ways. While that happens simultaneously, yeah, slightly, slightly overrating the great white players.

Right. And do I think that happens? Yes. Do I think it is noteworthy that every time Michael or LeBron or Janice won back to back, the voters then said, okay, let's try someone else. You know what I mean? Let's just give someone else to try. But Bird won three in a row and Yokes about to win three in a row.

I think it's noteworthy. I don't think that means we're calling anyone, God Dog Clans. Right. And it is, it is to me trying to shut down a conversation. I actually do not think, I think if I'm listing all the reasons that Yokic is now going to win probably his third trade MVP, race would not be in my top five. But it would be, it would be somewhere on that pie chart, a very small one.

So I think it is a, I think it is. more nuanced than people give it credit for. And I didn't, I would have been very upset if I were Kendrick and a, and a teammate did that to me. I wouldn't have liked it. So I'm listening to KG, his podcast with Paul Pierce. And he mentions how he's like, man, I've been in this league a long time. I read body language. He goes, when LeBron had that night and AD didn't even get up, I don't care if he's

you have a bum ankle, you get up. And he said he thinks the Lakers are looking at these next 10 games without LeBron as the future of AD. Can they win without LeBron? If they can't, AD's, he's gone. But it was really interesting. So I mentioned something. I had been tipped by somebody around the Lakers that said, you know, LeBron and A.D., after that, that reaction to LeBron breaking Kareem Abdul's Jabbar, all-time scoring record. They're not boys. It's not hostile. But they're not guys, right?

You can tell from body language. KG points this out. When I mentioned that two days later, I got the strongest reaction from LeBron's people on anything I've ever said. What does that tell you? They got really defensive. I think there is a feeling. LeBron feels like he kind of needs him for at least this year.

Because I had been told in the last year, there are times LeBron is disappointed. He came in post-Bubble out of shape. It was his turn to sort of triumphantly take the team when LeBron's missing. 80s often not playing as well. You know, they've only played like 12 games together since the bubble. That's their longest streak. And there's been some disappointment in the LeBron camp. When I said that, major.

action from LeBron's group. And I trusted my source. So my takeaway on this is LeBron left D. Wade. Okay. And didn't give him a heads up. One of his best friends ever. You know, Mello's one of his best friends ever. He's never really actively pursued him and said, bring him in.

He did with Westbrook. Sure. He didn't with Mello. And I guess my takeaway is this, is that the LeBron A.D thing is over. but LeBron's really sensitive to it because he did move off. Wade, he did get criticized for it. I think it's over. I think LeBron's smart enough to see the temperature in the room on social media.

He's not, he's going to be there for him when he's miced. He's like, I love you, man. He makes sure everybody knows. But I'm not going to just say AD's reaction to the Kareem moment is nothing. Well, listen, it's certainly not nothing. I don't know what it was. It was one of the most bizarre things I've seen in sports in a couple years. It was one of the most bizarre, shocking things I've seen in sports.

And I don't have any sourcing on what was going on. I think I speculated with you. But it's been so long. And this was just blind speculation because it was so bizarre. I thought something bizarre had to have happened. You know, that was right around the trade deadline. and we knew the Lakers called about Kyrie, and we now know Durant was available.

And I, again, I have no sourcing on this, and I've said it on TV a couple times, and no one has texted me like, you're on to something, so I'm probably wrong. I'm just saying in the moment, I was like, I wonder if part of it, once the Nets were like, we're not doing Kyrie, it's like, well, any interest in Anthony Davis for Kevin Durant?

and that that filtered back to to AD and he felt betrayed. You know, and felt hurt, you know, whatever. Because something had, here's what I do know without having any sourcing. Something happened. Right. Because that was weird.

That was as weird as it gets. With all that said, I don't think the Lakers are dead this year, man. I don't. You can say I'm crazy. I just, I go up and down the Western Conference. I'm like, okay, the one seat is Denver.

I know a healthy LeBron and AD can beat them. I know that they're the one. I've totally agree. Memphis now is off into the weeds. Memphis is, who knows with Memphis? By the way, John Morant reportedly, J-Mack said this to me today on the air,

is that, and this was two days ago, and this airs, is that, you know, when Jaw goes out, his teammates don't go with him. He's got his guy. is that is there resentment that he has blown the season up in that room? I don't know, but I do know that Memphis is right now not looking as good as they were at any point in the last 18 months. Yeah.

The three seed, God love them, is light the damn beam Sacramento. And I got mad respect to Sacramento. My lovely wife, who you adore, she's from Sacramento, love the people there. No defense. None. Best offense in the league, but no experience and no defense. Same with Dallas. Since Kyrie showed up, you shoot 53% against the masks.

No defense. Right. We joked about this on the show. NBA used to be a race to 100. With the Mavs, it's kind of like a race to 125. It's like who's going to get there first? Phoenix set them aside for a moment. They should be the favorites.

I get it. Dallas is my pick at the beginning of the year. I don't think Kyrie's part of winning. I don't love it. Last year, the number eight defense has fallen apart. I know you believe in the Warriors. I got a nut fact for you, Colin. Since 1980, the worst road record to win a title, 21 and 20.

The Warriors have won seven times on the road this year. I don't think it's their season. Okay. So now, then you have the Clippers who made the brilliant decision of adding Russell Westbrook for no reason whatsoever. So the and then there's Phoenix, which has everything you'd want. Yeah. Not quite as much depth as you'd want.

However, there are certain teams that when an injury happens, the Bucks last year with Middleton, it's like, God, dog it. What terrible luck. Couldn't see it coming. Bad timing, bad luck. There are certain teams when injuries happen, like the Lakers every year post-bubble. It's like, well, yeah. One guy's in year 20 and the other guy's been injured his whole career.

Or the clippers. It's like, well, Kauai is his body's breaking down. The son's veteran leader and best player are incredibly injury prone now. You can't like Kevin Durant is more, is post-Aquillies is injured all the time. So I just say that you can't, you always, people always throw out the caveat of if healthy. Well, there are certain teams more likely to be healthy than others. And the Suns, Clippers, and Lakers are three teams that if they're hurt, it's like, yeah, well, that's the risk you run.

So the point I'm making is I think everything you said about the relationship might be correct and the Lakers long term might be correct. But I also think if they can survive this time without LeBron, and I don't know the severity of the foot injury. But if they survive it, LeBron having three weeks off, before a playoff run in a wide open West, I'm not ready to write them off yet. Maybe I'm, you know, a romantic,

but I'm not ready to write them off. I will tell you one team that I think is going to feel like this could have been a year for a great run and now has questioning everything about it was the Pelicans. Yeah. Pelicans are looking unbelievable. Now we don't know when Zion's ever going to play. Yeah.

And that's a disaster. Well, the Zion Jomaranq class felt great. Zion can't get healthy and John Morant can't grow up. So, you know, it's one of the things, not that I defend a job, but I said, you know, in the NFL,

you know, a guy comes in after four years at Georgia, three or four years at Alabama, they've gone to college, they've the global perspective of classmates, they've had hard coaching. These are men. The two best guys in this year's draft forego college.

Right. So it's AAU or international basketball to a paid league to the NBA. They can't drink in the team hotel. So I think part of what's sort of endemic in this sport and you've got to come to terms with it is these guys aren't emotionally ready. And I think it's just a reality I sort of build it in is when I look at these rookies, first of all, they all hit a wall year one. because college basketball is regional travel, mostly 36 games. NBA is domestic travel, count preseason, playoffs could be 100 games. So they all hit a wall like game 65. They can't keep weight on.

You know, they're just, they have to play defense. They're burning 7,000 calories a night. By year two, expectations ramp up, social media, parents, hangar honors. So the Jaws situation. I think he'll get turned it around. And I'm not defending him. But isn't this sort of something that's built into the sport? These are kids.

Now they have revenue basketball, revenue shoes, revenue social. Oh. It's overwhelming. Listen, so here's the thing. I'm amazed anybody at that age, that money, that fame doesn't just create disaster after disaster.

So I am super, you know, I've told this story to you before. I'm smart kid. I think good family, all the opportunities. Forget getting 50 million. I write out of college loan who wants to be a millionaire and won 50,000. And it's gone in nine months. Gone with the, by the way, I didn't have, I didn't buy a car and have any assets. It was spent.

Gambling, drinking, out is spent. people are like, ah, you're paying for everybody's lifestyle. Yeah, of course you are. Of course you are. So I'm going to defend a lot of that stuff. Like people are like, oh, all these guys, they're paying for their friends. As soon as you have money, you like doing things that cost money and nobody likes to do them alone. So it's like, hey, guys, want to go to dinner?

And if all your friends are like, yeah, I've got money for Fridays and you have money for Mastros. And I guess what? You're all going to Mastros and you're a person. paying the bill. It's like, hey, guys, it's the off season. You're going on vacation? And they're like, yeah, I can pay for Branson. And you're like, hmm, I was thinking Barbados, I guess we'll all go and I'll pay for it. So I understand like all of that stuff is to me totally reasonable. The gun stuff scares me. And again, I'm going to couch it with this part of it. There is legitimate, understandable pushback from people are like, hold on a second. We

more guns than people in this country. Everybody's allowed to have guns and we only freak out when it's a young black guy. He wasn't breaking any laws, potentially, all that. Got it. I actually think in a lot of ways, there are fair points there as far as the hypocrisy of it all there. What is undeniable, though, is what he is doing is dangerous. Forget if it's right or wrong. It's dangerous. It would be dangerous anywhere. It is particularly dangerous in Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee has the third highest homicide rate of any major city in the country. 50 biggest cities, Bloomberg just had this, 50 biggest cities in America, Memphis Cincinnati's murder rate is number three.

It is nine times New York City, okay? Which means if you are one of, as far as gun violence, the most dangerous cities in America, you're one of the most dangerous cities in the world in developed countries. That's where he lives. We just saw in Memphis. A Memphis celebrity, beloved young Dolph, a rapper, murdered at a bakery in the last year. I don't know if Jaws are real gangster or not. I don't know if he's hanging with real gangsters or not.

I don't know if he's just playing for the gram. I know that city. My wife, who you adore, her best friend who you've met a few times, saw it the super old Nicole, who's with us all the time, lives in Memphis. We go to Memphis a lot. I know the city. I know the nightlight. I told this story on my pod the other day.

I don't know if I should tell it or not, but I, whatever. We went down to Memphis for the Southern Heritage Classic. The Deonstone, Jackson State, we saw it. That night, we went out, went out to a lot of the places that I know. like are places jaw goes in Memphis that that scene that those clubs right one of the guys who's promoting one of the parties that night knew I was coming he knew Nicole knew I was coming whatever when we got there he said hey thanks for coming Nick I was like yeah it's great whatever and he said this is such and such he's going to be with you tonight like huh he's like no he's

like I brought it. He's one of my security guys. He's just going to be with you all night. I'm like, no. Come on, man. Like, I thought he was doing it like I was like some big shot. He's like, no. He's like, I know, I know my city and I know I'll feel better. He'll be with you. His point was, you have a little bit of notoriety, a little bit of jewelry. I'd feel better if I knew someone who knew everything about the city was here with you. And now some might say, and if bosses are this, then I might say, and Nick, maybe go to a different club, maybe it's worse. But whatever it is, you're young, you're having fun.

That is where John lives. And whether he is an actual tough guy or not, actual tough guys see these videos and see how he's conducting himself. and I don't think it's being hyperbolic to say what he's doing is dangerous. Not that he's going to hurt someone. That's something that could happen to him. And this is the last point I'll make on it. The opportunity in front of him, there is like,

he's in a very unique spot because if someone were to say who are the best players in the NBA over the next, you know, six years. So LeBron's gone. Durant's probably aged out of it. Staff might be aged out of it. So like, you know, from 2026 to 2032 are the best players. People probably say, well, Janice, Luca, Yokic, Embed, and then you say, Jha, Tatum, whomever. Here's my point.

There is a lot of money. in being, he's never going to be the best player in the league, but he might be the best American player in the league for a long time. Because all the guys ahead of him, there's different marketing available for the best American player. There's just this. Like, Luca and Yokic and Yonis are not going to get all of the endorsements that the guy who's the best player in the league should get as an American guy would.

That could all go to job. People love him. He's electrifying. But the shit he's doing is dangerous. It's flatly dangerous. And I hope he gets that. And I hope he's all right. So when Sean Payton would come on the show with me this year on Mondays, he said, you know, Parcells used to say your first 15 picks, do not take an undersized player, regardless of position.

Tua is not a top 15 pick. Kyler Murray now we're finding doesn't want to get hit Jalen Hertz, great player second round. Drew Breeze second round, smaller players. I mean, you know Dave Half this league is undrafted. So I look at Bryce Young.

He's 5, 10 and a half. That's about three inches short. And he's going to weigh, I mean, in the combine, he's over 200. He ate a lot of steaks and a lot of potatoes. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know that. He's going to play at 196. What do you do with him?

I do think he's the most, I think he has two, things I'll say he's accurate and Dave I watched them in high school and college his pocket awareness is fantastic he has an absolute feel for the pocket which I think Dave is a neat innate I don't think you can teach it some guys never Sam Darnold love him never feels it ever he runs away too early he doesn't see it um Bryce Young's pocket awareness is A plus plus he's small he does to me he doesn't work in Chicago, a windy, cold, northern environment.

But God, Houston, Dave, Atlanta, a dome, Dave. I don't know. How do you pass him up? No, I think that,

you know, I talked to about eight, I'm a member of the 33rd team, okay, Parcell's actually got it started. And we were talking on there, there was five or six general manage on there. And they talked to people

around the list. the GMs personnel people more than I do. And there is a real split feeling on these quarterbacks. I mean, they, Bryce Young, you're talking about in the right situation. But after this combine workout, C.J. Stroud, there's some people like, there's one guy that was talking about Will Levens, how they like how he gets the ball out. And for their style of offense, he would be perfect. You know, and then the Richardson's kid, I mean, he's got all the intangibles, I guess.

I have never studied him. One year doing it makes me a little nervous with him. But the point is that there's not in NFL general manager's minds, there's not a Trevor Lawrence in this opinion. So, you know, I would not be surprised. I mean, I think it'll be Bryce Young, but I don't know. I mean, I've heard a lot of different stories. And it's a matter of who's going to fit in your offense.

You talked about the different cities, the mentality of your offense. you know, it's going to be real interesting. I don't know any negatives except the size. Look at, you know, Drew Brees, people passed on him. We did it to dolphins because of his size. But he was very accurate when he was at Purdue and he moved in the pocket. Drew Brees did a lot of things that Bryce Young does. He really does without as good as supporting cast.

I like to have in Alabama now. You know, I said this in the preamble to this interview about the Combine, Belichick, Sean McVeigh, Matt LaFleur have said, nah, I'm not going to go. Here's what I worry about. Dave, when you play in a college or a pro football season, you're hurt by week three. Nobody's healthy.

You match up against guys that are bigger and stronger than you. I want to see game tape. I worry. It's a complete cottage industry now, coach, prepping for the Wonderlich, prepping for the combine. shit, I think you get fooled. I think Belichick has been fooled by players.

These guys come in, Dave. If I went to you. And Trent Dilfer said something to me years ago. He goes, 75% of these guys don't love football. They love what football provides for them. And I was told by my agent, get in the best shape of your life, you'll never have to work. You're going to be a late first rounder. Dave, I look at the combine now.

I think he get fooled a lot. I see some of these Combined Beauty Pageant contestants. I mean, where did you fall in on it? You know, I agree with you. Well, it wasn't as it wasn't the extreme back then as it is now. But I work, I won't give the names. I've worked with about four or five agents in Naples, Florida, in your own stomping grounds.

And they would bring in their college players. And one of the challenges I had was get him to draw the circles called and picture this on a board the circles of an offensive formation where one guy was drawn you know the size of a dinner plate and the other guy then next to him was the guard who was the size of a quarter i mean you know prepping them so at the end of this week all i did was what you're talking about this is how you got to answer the questions this is how when he draw on the board this is what you got to draw so you're 100% right and these guys are getting schooled, yes, from the agent, but there's a lot of guys like mine, ex-coaches that are spending

a lot of time with these guys. I sat in those meetings for over 15 years as a head coach and a GM and head coach at the Dolphins. I ask those questions. I know what the coaches want to hear when the tape goes on and you make a mistake. I know exactly what they don't want to hear too. Right. So, I mean, I'm one of those guys that's been schooling them. You're 100% right. Yeah, no, I mean, shit, there's a real industry out there for a day. Dave wants that. Dave, here's a lot of money. Teach these kids. What this is?

I draw circles. I'd draw circles. So Aaron Rogers goes in a darkness retreat. My takeaway is I'm pretty new school on this. I got fairly young kids. Whatever it takes for you to get your mind clear. Shit, I don't care, Dave. If you got to go to therapy, when the season ends, go take six weeks.

Go find yourself. But I've had this belief for a long time that Farr and Aaron are really similar. That the lack of an owner allows the quarterback for the Packers, if talented, to essentially run the franchise. And because Green Bay is the smallest market, if they're bad at quarterback, they're not on television.

In my childhood, 70s and 80s, the Packers were never on television. Right. I mean, they really weren't. And I think they're paralyzed by it. If there was a Jerry Jones or an owner in Green Bay, and Aaron said, I'm going to go in a darkness recruit. He'd say, well, when you're done with that, I want an answer or you're going to go in a darkness retreat. I'm going to send you to the Jets. You'll be dark for the rest of your career.

Right. You tell me, when you were with Jerry or Wayne Hizenga, go back to all your owners. Were there moments that an owner was actually really important to set a precedent, to be a voice, to hold people accountable? Because Farrv and Aaron have gone on this retirement threat tour, both of them, for the last five years of their careers. Yeah, I would say no. I mean, that's probably not the answer you want to hear. But quite honestly, you know, I was at Miami when Wayne Heisenga hired me and Dan Marino was at the end of his career. And the first job that I had was

go in and sit down and talk to Dan, who I knew was a fellow pit guy, University of Pittsburgh, and tell him that we were changing offenses and I didn't see there being a fit that he could be on the team, but we were going to go a different direction on and on. We had Chad Gaylee, who was going to do a lot of movement stop, not to drop out. We were changing the Dawn Shula offense. When Jimmy was there, he kept that pretty much in place. I was completely getting a new playbook.

And so I kind of went through that. Wayne Hizenga was never involved with it. Jerry Jones, when I was at the Cowboys, when Jimmy Johnson was there, Jerry Jones was never involved in what was going on with Troy Akewin. Never. It would have never happened. Jimmy would have left earlier

if that was the case. I mean, he wouldn't have put up with it. So I wouldn't buy that. Does it bother you? Does it bother you that Aaron has sort of a laissez-faire attitude on updating the Packers? Yeah, it does because last year we made a commitment to him. I mean, we really did.

And yeah, it's a two-way street. I get that. We kind of went through the same thing last year. And we made this big commitment, big money commitment. So it does bother me. I personally think he'll end up back there. I mean, yeah, you know, there's a hook to go. maybe to the Raiders with Devante Adams because he's a buddy of his.

There's a hook to go with Hackett to the Jets because it might be a similar offense. But I don't think Aaron Rogers wants a lot of change. And he knows what he's getting in Green Bay with LaFleur. He knows the offense. He knows the receivers. You know, I don't know. He knows what he wants to do. Talk about a guy that has an off-season routine now.

All of a sudden, you go to the Jets, and they want you in the wait room. four days a week. You know, I mean, routines change. That is not going to fit. That was the biggest thing with Dan Marino. And Dan and I talked about, I says, hey, it ain't going to be like it was, Dan. You know, we're going to start OTAs like tomorrow. And we're going to get in the offseason program tomorrow. Whoa, coach, I got offseason commitments. And I go, Dan had a lot of stuff going on. You can imagine. And it's been that way he deserved it for years. And all of a sudden, we were going to change that. The routine change in his mind, I think, was as much as anything. I think that that's going to play a part in this with Aaron Rogers at the end of the day. I truly do.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, you drafted Jordan Love in the first round at some point. You don't want to pay him before you've seen if he can play. And, you know, he's a tough one to sign. So, because if you make a trade for Aaron Rogers, okay, if I'm at the Jets, the Packers are going to want multiple picks. Well, it can't be multiple picks. This is a one-year deal in their minds. We'll give you something for one-year. year. And then if it happens the next year, maybe we'll do something for the next year. But I think it's a tough sell to get somebody to give up a lot to get Aaron Rogers. Think about it when you're back of your mind, you're thinking this could be a one and done situation.

If he didn't like it at Green Bay, when an MVP's, you know, he could surely have a problem with us, with a new system and new players, a new city, a new place to live, new media. I mean, so it's a one-year deal in my mind if I'm on the other end thinking of giving up something for Aaron Rogers. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope, also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady. Make sure download the Dramon Green Show wherever you get your podcast, only on the volume. Podcast Network.

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