The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts - Stafford Stays In LA, Jerry Sinking The Cowboys, Butler Has Rejuvenated Warriors + Curry

Episode Date: March 8, 2025

Colin’s top takes of the week! Colin’s joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk NFL! They start with Matthew Stafford deciding to stay in LA, debate whether the Rams asking price of a 1st round pick was too steep, and explain why Stafford would be crazy to leave the Rams in pursuit of more money (2:45).   They discuss the pending roster cuts the Eagles are facing after their Super Bowl win and debate whether the Eagles should keep linebacker Zack Baun or wide receiver A.J. Brown or cut/trade both in order to keep their dominant offensive and defensive lines intact (10:30).  They discuss Jerry Jones’ skipping his typical press conference at the combine after the Deebo Samuel to the Commanders move, why Dak’s contract will sink America’s Team and why Dallas might draft a quarterback in an early round (17:15).   Then Colin is joined by Marcus Thompson, sportswriter for The Athletic and author of “Golden,” KD” and “Dynasties” to talk NBA! They begin with how the addition of Jimmy Butler has completely transformed the Warriors, why his presence has elevated Steph Curry’s game back to an MVP level (32:45) and they talk about the impact Butler has had on the Warriors offense (37:30), They debate why Mark Cuban decided to sell his majority stake in the Mavericks and whether the prospect of moving the team to Las Vegas factored into the decision, and whether Cuban had prior insight into the Luka trade (39:30).  Colin floats his theory that LeBron had a bigger hand behind the scenes in facilitating the Luka trade than people realize, but Marcus offers a competing theory (43:15). They try to diagnose what’s wrong with the Knicks, why they seem to have regressed since last season and why they have almost no chance of beating the Celtics or Cavs in the playoffs (50:45). Finally, they debate what move the OKC Thunder should make when they finally decide to cash in the treasure trove of draft picks they’re sitting on (56:15). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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My buddy, former NFL scout John Middlough, his podcast is three and out. So it was interesting. I got a text today from, NFL executive, apparently the Rams were willing to move off Stafford, but they wanted a first-round pick. They wanted, and by the way, you know, the Raiders were going to give him $100 million guaranteed, which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make. But just to throw it out there, the Rams were willing to make a move if they could have two first round picks.

What do you make of that? I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation. What do you make of that? So you're saying that they would not have traded into the Raiders for, let's say, a couple seconds? Nope, they wanted a first. It was, but it's interesting.

They're so close to the Super Bowl. It is interesting that they would have considered that. Now, you know, this is somebody that is close to it. So it's interesting. It's so hard to get close to the Super Bowl, right? Like, thank God the Niners have 12 picks this year. So that should fortify them and give them another run because they've got, you know, secondary and O-line issues.

But it's even great teams. I mean, Dynasty's closed hard. Like you're watching Kansas City this year and you're like, they're struggling to score points for the second year in a row. I just, it is interesting they would have considered moving him for a first. Well, I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast. And he was open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value to us on the field, but we can off the field when it comes to our salary cap and we have limitations with the guy that's 37 years old. Yeah.

And I think you used to have a line was it you can't, there's not a happy happier or something. Yeah, don't try to get happier than happy. And I thought this with Matt Staffer. Now, if they would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks that would have made the Rams happy, would he have given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year 40? We'll see what the, you know, in a week what the number actually turns out to be. I think that it's not public kind of shows you that, you know, the Rams didn't just give him $110 million. Right. And I think Sean McVeigh said today on McAfee, it's a year-to-year thing.

Yeah. Right? So I would imagine they gave him a little bump up. raised, but relative to the rest of the league, he's not making what he's making. My take was this. I'm not into telling someone to, quote, unquote, take a pay cut or what money means to them, but he's accumulated before this season even starts, $360 million. Right. So I would imagine if his accountant's done pretty well, I know he's got a big family, probably nine figures in the bank and working for him in investments. Like, Matt Stafford's doing really, really well. Not only will he

never think about it. His family never will. So it doesn't get any better than Sean McVeigh, does it? Why would he want to leave? Well, it's just, I saw a story today where Fred Cuppel said that Brooks Kepka, if he could, if he could, would go back to the PGA tour from the Live Golf. And again, I think, I do think generational wealth does make you happy for maybe 12 months. You know, it's, you, you get this kind of money. You set up trusts with your kids. Or you, you know, you buy that third home if you're Brooks Kepka and that fourth car. And it does give you a sense of independence. But ultimately, people, John, not to be Tony Robbins here, people like to be part of something. You know, it's not just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of something and it's an established

something and there's credibility with it. That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended. But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned, well run, well coached. Right now the Raiders are a dream. of what could be, the Rams are something. So I think, I've always said this, don't chase money, chase good management, and you'll eventually make good money. Maybe not great money, but good money. Yeah, I think if you use the live guys as an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars,

but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Right. His was more of an FU to the establishment. Right. DeCambeau, Brooks, and DJ, these guys are not NBA NFL players. So they get offered $100 to $180 million. It is hard. That changes their life.

Matt Stafford making an extra $50 million. I mean, you're talking after taxes or whatever. He's taken home $28, $30 million. It's not going to change him or his family's life at all. But it will impact his football life, which like you said, the Raiders or the Giants, which were the teams that look like all in, are not going to win next year. It's just not going to happen. Right.

I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders. Right. Do you just to compete in that division, even if you have a huge, upgrade at coach. I think SpyTech is a young up and comer, but to think 2020, and Matt Stafford is living in the moment. So to me, the risk of getting the extra money if it would have gone through would have sent him backwards. I think in his football career, what we saw forever in Detroit. He finally, I felt like when he got to Sean McVeigh, got to validate the career. This guy with all this talent, honestly, these last couple years, even more than the Super Bowl year,

it was like Matt Stafford, I mean, doesn't get much better than that. and I think it would have kind of been sad because it would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppelow or 41-year-old Aaron Rogers. It would have been a drop-off from Matt Stafford. So I'm just glad that he stayed and it worked out from a football standpoint. Because they have a good off-season, a couple of moves here and there. I mean, who's to say that they are, you know, top two or three favorite in the NFC to be a, you know, win the Super Bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl? Yeah, I mean, I think that game against Philadelphia says it all.

They're driving in a snowstorm, and they get down to the 15-yard line, and they have a rookie center six-round pick, and they had finally gotten their offensive line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team, better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy with a W. And so, and I've said this, McVeigh doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he follows up great seasons with clunkers if, like, Christian McCaffrey's not healthy. McVeigh wins every year. It's just they don't really, they reboot. don't necessarily rebuild.

The, I was saying it. I think you know one major difference, I think the two right now, is McVeigh has, I thought Kyle, because of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's been emotional when it came to Debo, resigning him and keeping him last year with Iyuk. McVeigh, it's like Jalen Ramsey, cut you off see ya. Cooper Cup this year, we're moving on, right? This offseason, Stafford, one-year deal, that's it. where it's like the Niners found themselves in this weird predicament of they got emotional with some of these players.

And McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's roots of Walsh. It's like, yeah, we're done here. And he's had to tactfully change, you know, with golf. He was a little too outspoken. And even he said that like, I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business. We have to make tough decisions. And I think the 49ers found themselves in a rut because they tied themselves to every single player instead of, you know, in football.

The guy can be a good player, but you've got to pivot. You can't sign them all. Well, I mean, Philadelphia is in that spot right now. Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one. You and I, any fan could make that because they nail their two, you know, they're two early picks at corner. Right.

The tougher pick is going to be, do you keep the lineback or do you keep A.J. Brown? And I've said this before. I would move off A.J. Brown. It's in the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early, he gets hurt often. When a receiver is verbal and outspoken early, they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right? So Debo didn't get quieter.

I would move off A.J. Brown because you're so good at running back O-line, quarterback, tight end, and Devante Smith. I think that's an easy one. But you don't want to think like a fan, but I think people will look at A.J. Brown and go, he's so good. It's wide receiver. You can find really Pooka Naku is a fifth rounder. I mean, there's one or two positions in the NFL, cornerback, wide receiver running back.

It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like there's all sorts of examples. So, like, I look at Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is going to look different. Not everybody's going to love it. So to me, that was a little bit of a caution. Guys, we're moving off some popular talented guys. You don't say that if you just have to cut Darius Slay.

That's an easy one that. what he's losing sleep on. Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of let the cat out of the bag and then they tried to walk it back. Right. Like, come on. But, you know, winning Cures All and their relationship, I mean, he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is, when healthy, one of the best, what, four or five, six wide receivers in the league.

I think the only way they would do something like that would be to clear up some movement if they could get Miles Garrett. And by all accounts, they are going to be one of the lead dogs in those moves. So I think the thing was Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie, and I would just say consistent football teams, maintain it or not. It's like, yeah, he's a good guy. He had an incredible season, but are we going to break the bank for a linebacker? And history would say the Eagles and good teams do not. That's right.

Right? Let someone else give you four years, $80 million and $45 million guaranteed. And this is why you keep drafting and why you keep investing. And listen, part of being a good NFL team takes some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year, $4 million, first team all pro. That's why you pay Vic Fangio, $5, $6 million. You know, last year he looked at this guy, special teamer, kind of outside linebacker. Let's make him a middle linebacker.

Under my tutelage, Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment is not the, player. It's the coach. Why couldn't I do this again? Why can't we find a guy in the draft? Maybe on the second day, second or third round, let Fangio mold him like a piece of clay. He did it with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he? That's the best case scenario. But no one in a million years in the NFL would have said, Zach Bond, first team all pro, middle linebacker, no chance. And that's that, you know, football more than all these other sports, the power of these coordinators, if you get it right. I mean, look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive

coordinators over the years can change your franchise, right? Because you're not paying them player money. You're paying them four, five, six million dollars. It's amazing to me how fans really, really struggle. And to me, AJ Brown and Bonner, the linebacker, are pretty easy moves. Because I'm not going to disrupt that O line probably for the next three years. I mean, I mean, that O-line, maybe in two to three years, Lane Johnson retires. But the core of that organization to me is now Sequin, Jalen Hertz, and that O-line.

Everything else to me, I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really, I mean, think how great people thought DAC was. I mean, people really thought DAC was a top five quarterback when the Cowboys O-Line five years ago, those guys were all closer to their prime. Now we look up and go, Jesus, is that, Dak's the most overpaid guy in the NFL by a long shot. So, you know, I just think when I look at, like when Tyreek Hill, Annie Reid moved off him. I never forget the day it happened. I was like, yeah, of course you move off him. Like,

you got look at the pickstay guy. At the time, I'm like, first round, second round, second round. I'm like, Brett Feach is going to hit on at least half of these. Of course you make the move. He's a deep threat. Those guys don't mean much in December and January when it's freezing and windy. So, I mean, the AJ Brown one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a receiver, Dibo is a prime example. When they start getting outspoken early, that doesn't go backwards. And by the way, you won with him. You got to a couple of Super Bowls.

I also think there's at some point in a salary cap sport, players become commodities. And there's just, you have to move them. They're chest pieces. And you say, well, where's the humanity? Come on. We all know the game here. This is the way it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now, kids leave their program all

the time. They make promises. They commit. They leave. We all know this is how the game works. Well, the one thing with AJ, too, if that would be something they wanted to do, he still has a lot of value. He still one of the best players in the league. I mean, you're not just kicking him away like Debo for a fifth round pick. It might bring you back like a second and a third. Yeah. Right. I don't know if you could get, I mean, they traded a first forum. Could they get a late first? I mean, some of those teams don't have the most cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and a third. Yep.

You know, I think there's always other moves. He's not just getting rid of a player to get rid of a player. You know, Milton Williams, the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love to keep. But guys like that, he's going to get $20 million a year. That's right. So I think they're always thinking, the one thing the Eagles have been like since before I got there and ever since long after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm telling you, if Miles Garrett, this is the Browns can say all they want,

we're not moving on. And listen, I would understand if you're a well-run, a competitive team, but given the Deshaun's situation, this is a time to just blow the thing up. And to me, he would net you multiple first-round picks. So if that, if he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and center with the package of things that they would put in front of them to land that player. And their owner and how you manipulate the salary cap is you pay these insane bonus. Right. Right. It's everyone plays under the same umbrella of the cap. but I can cut you a bigger signing bonus, and that's where guys sign up for. Yeah, and for the record, fans tend to think all these owners are even.

No, they're not. Stan Cronkey, Jeffrey Lurie, the Denver Broncos can pay more up front than a majority of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just not an organization. I mean, the Packers have to get everything approved. The Bears don't have that kind of money historically. So there was a moment this weekend, Jerry Jones canceled his interview at the United States. F.L. Combine. And the Cowboys have had a rough couple years. I mean, they gave way a fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle Shanahan can't make a

quarterback accurate, he's not accurate. They gave up a fourth round pick for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver, five catches for the Cowboys. And again, both those moves, you know, we all kind of went, meanwhile, the commanders gave up a fifth round pick for Debo Samuel. And it's really interesting. I look at Washington, not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters, Cliff, Dan Quinn, that move for Debo, Jaden Daniels. And I don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias. I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going to be one of the three best NFC teams. And I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming the old. old Al Davis Raiders, they feel like they are, honestly, they are lost at sea.

I mean, they are giving away draft picks now. I mean, people don't understand. They may re-work DAC's contract. It's a $90 million cap hit. That is over double Josh out. They can rework it all they want, to what, 58? I said this a year ago. I said they're going to start a decade of regression.

It has happened so fast in this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth round pick? Well, to me, you just look at the free agent class and you go, well, we don't want to get in any long, because the whole thing was Washington has all this cap space. They need some more weapons for Jaden. And you look around, you go, well, NFL free agency is the most overrated thing.

because high-end guys never make it. And the guys that do, you have to pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years, $90 million. He actually turned out to be okay, but you have to pay, you know, elite money for those guys. So I can get Debo on a year-to-year contract. I have all this space. All I have to give up is a fifth-round pick. In the NIL era, fifth, sixth, seventh-round picks feel like diminished and watered down.

I also think you get a guy who's a little motivated. People are calling him fat, you know, a little like Luca style. Adam Peters knows the guy well. Cliff Kingsbury, you know, when you think back to Arizona, they used a lot of gadget players. Rondale Moore, the Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you can get behind the line of scrimmage. You know, I actually think it's a good scheme fit.

He has excelled when they've had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side, Terry McLaur and Brandon Ayyuk. To me, if you get a motivated debo, it's a no-brainer. we have all this cap space. I give them 17. All I have to give up is a fifth round pick. And if you're the 49ers, you weren't going to pay him $17 million here in a couple weeks.

So it's, I think it's kind of a win-win. The Niners are moving off. They don't have to eat any of the money. They trade to a team where the general manager was around not only drafting them, but his good and bad moments. Yeah. So knows his personality.

Because that's another thing. I mean, you've been saying it forever, why are you going to be a little moody? Yeah. They got a little like Hollywood actor to them. They need to be, you just, you have to know their personality. It's very rare to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are

more Debo. And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I think the Jerry Jones thing, how often in any business that if the 80-year-old patriarch of the operation is around, and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway, is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering? He's made an ungodly amount of money. He does not need to be there. And he's extra hands on. So Jerry, you could argue Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown as they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative to some of their big seasons and they've underwhelmed in the playoffs. It doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what? I'm going to let Stephen and Will McKay and my coach take a bigger role. I'm just, I'm just going to be more of a figurehead.

He always doubles down. I'm cutting the check. My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a football guy. And he's not wrong. I mean, he played college football. He's been around in his whole life. But unlike a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business. And the business of his team is marketing and all that. And there's just a lot going on with the Cowboys. And, you know, Micah Parsons, what's, you talk about Dax Capit. If they do give Micah a new deal and don't trade them, what's that deal? $150 million guaranteed? It's a quarterback contract. Brutal. No, I mean. So they're in three guys at a combined, what, like $500 million? crazy. I mean, I just, you can't have three different players top of the market when only one of

them, C.D. Lamb, is top five at his position in the NFL. It's like, I mean, it's, I had a very good year last year predicting very bad year picking individual games, very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington and Denver and some of the upstarts. This year, I think, New Orleans. And England is going to be a surprise playoff team. I think the Jets are going to go sideways a little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami, I kind of think they've topped out a little bit. All the motion and the tricks and smoke and mirrors. I think there's limitations there. I think New England's going to be in play. And my other one is, I think Dallas is potentially a five or six win team with Brian Schontenheimer. I mean, the good news is it's a good

quarterback draft to have to go out and get one. If I was Dallas this year, In fact, I think I heard Stephen Jones say this. I had another person tell me, who I respect, keep your eye on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round. Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now, they're not late second. I think Dallas may trade down in the second round to get a mid-second pick. I am hearing more and more.

And I went and watched him about a month ago. Kyle McCord, throws a really nice ball. And I thought about this. If he had stayed, because Will Howard completed 61% of his throws at Kansas State, he goes to Ohio State and complete 73% of his throws, if you don't think that matters. If Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith and Ibuca and the two NFL running backs, and Kyle McCord, who's a much better pro prospect than Will Howard, it's not even, it's not cool. Will Howard is like late fifth, sixth. In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL.

He thinks after the combine, he's a seventh round pick. I get a bad combine. Oh, bad. I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being as good as any quarterback in that draft. This is my hottest take is that he'll be the guy. Tell me I'm wrong. Well, I think, yeah, I watched a couple of Syracuse games this season and went, this is the guy that Ryan Day, because let's face it, they blamed him for the Michigan

loss a few years ago, and he got kicked out. And so I, listen, I believed him. I was like, hey, this guy, if he can't make it there, maybe they're right. And then you watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in a while, he was spinning. He's got a big arm, tight spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart, because there are so many question marks with the top two guys with Cam and Shador, if you're talking about two guys, you have the draft in the top, I don't know, one guy in the top five, the other guy in the top 12. You can get these two guys. Historically, McCord is not going to be a first round pick,

but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs, the Jimmy Garoppos, these guys that can start for you. And if you do a good job building your team, you can win with. I think the problem for the Cowboys is if you look at the DAC era, they really only had to deal with the Eagles. Right, just kind of went back and forth over the last 10 years, right? With Doug Peterson and then Siriani era.

Well, now it's not just the Eagles. It's Washington, too. so you add another team? Because Washington, up until last year was a joke, the Giants have been terrible for what, a decade plus. So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with the Eagles. They have to deal with Washington? I mean, that's a huge problem. And even if they do draft McCord, Jackson Dart, whoever, let's say they draft a second round pick. That does nothing for them in 2025. And honestly, does nothing for them the next couple years. That guys, they're kind of just hoping to get their Jordan Love, which is good big picture team

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-heartedly.

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, he's one of my favorite guests, and it's a perfect time to get a Marcus Thompson right for the athletic. He's the author of the book Golden, KD, and Dynasties, really plugged in. You know, it's the Warriors got a lot of good people covering them. I think Marcus does as good a job as anybody that covers a team in the country in any sport. And he is joining us. I mean, it's so funny because I watched a lot of Warriors basketball.

And in my job, I got to watch a lot of stuff, but, you know, I just got into a habit, you know, for 10 years of watching the Warriors. And I made a comment, I'm like, man, when Steph is off the floor, this is pre-Jimmy Butler, I'm like, this is a boring-ass team. This is a bad watch. And I said, I'd bring in Jimmy Butler just for energy and juice. He'll just get everybody all worked up. So were you in, when you heard Jimmy was coming, were you in the, it may not work camp, it'll work kind of camp, or it'll be sensational camp.

Which camp were you in? I might be in all three, to be honest with you. I might have been in all three. You know, it was, it was difficult. I will say this up front. I didn't expect this. Yeah. I didn't expect, like, I mean, like, the one thing that's underscores for me,

I love Andrew Wiggins. I think Andrew Wiggins is a really good NBA player, especially who he's become with the warrior. He's like a testament to if you put him in a right situation, right? He'll be great for you. Like, he probably shouldn't be that. a one of a franchise, right? Yeah.

But if you put him in a good situation, he's great. Like, he's a great teammate, plays hard. Colin, there's a difference between an All-Star and a superstar. These teams are categorically different. And because of all the drama that was going down in Miami and, you know, even how Miami was like a middle-ling kind of team over these last couple of years, I forgot that Jimmy Butler is a superstar. That, that to me is the thing.

Cognitively, if you said, yeah, you put another superstar next to Steph, like that, that's what he needs. But watching him with Jimmy, it reminds you, like, no, Jimmy is one of them ones. Like, he's a bit of a side show sometimes, but, like, he's one of those guys. And it's instant. And the crazy part is he doesn't even have to play well. Yeah. He doesn't even have to play well.

And you could feel it. He's not shooting well right now. He's not even taking. his shots. Jimmy lives mid-range. He's going to the elbow and rising up. He's not doing any of that. He's just on the court. And by virtue of being Jimmy Butler on the court, he will punish you if you let him. And if you don't, then Steph will punish you. So like, that's the thing. Like the moment he got there, you could feel the vibe change just by him being there. Like he shows up in his aloe sweatsuit at the Laker game. He doesn't even sit on the bench.

None of the things you'd expect this dude to come in and be like, all right, I'm part of this thing. He just came in as Jimmy and it changed everything. And I was like, hey, yo, I didn't see that. Like, I didn't see that happening in the way like it did. Right. He's also, I've used the word, he's a very intentional player. Like possessions matter.

He doesn't waste possessions. I always thought sometimes Wiggins could be a little bit of a floater. He would waste possessions. You weren't quite sure if he was on the floor. Jimmy's got more of a presence. He's more intentional. He gets to the free throw line. And, you know, it also underscores something,

and I've seen this with LeBron, with Luca, is when you're on a treadmill to nowhere, this is a long season. And it's hard to get guys like Steph or LeBron fired up for an eight seed, right? You give them, I said this. It's like LeBron and Steph have a new buddy in the neighborhood they want to show off to.

And they're just, I mean, Steph's averaging like six more points. He's only taking one more shot. Yeah. So I think it, you know, in football, you got eight home games. You know, it's very urgent. It's hard for these guys who are at the mountaintop to get fired up for, you know, a playing team. I feel like Steph is come. This is one of these unintended benefits of making a trade with a great player.

The great player drives to the arena ready to show off, ready to perform. And now the honeymoon, the new car smell may wear off. But there is something to be said about the fit. Hell, Coominga's not playing. When you watch Butler, analytically, there were questions if he'd fit. Do you think he's more valuable in offense or defense right now? Right now, offense, definitely. I mean, by virtue of he's impacting one of the greatest offense,

of weapons in the history of sports in the way he is, right? Like, you're, you, you can see it. Steph is a different dude. That's a monster. It's so crazy. He said it, and I didn't know it until I looked it up. The day they traded him,

Steph took 36 shots, and then the next day, he took 32. It was the first time of his career. He's taking 30 shots in back-to-back games. He'd never done that before. And Jimmy hadn't even played yet. Just the fact that we got Jim, me now, let's turn up.

So the fact that Jimmy has that impact on Steph, to me, brings that to it because you're right. Like the part that that's so very viscerally clear is they just were not good before. I mean, they weren't. It was boring. They got guys who just don't go into the paint. Jimmy's message now is like, hey, you see what they're doing to Steph, just go into the paint.

It's wide open. As a matter of fact, I'm going to. show you. Just throw it down to me in the paint. Like, I'm not doing anything else. I'm going to the ramp. And you could see them saying, hey, that's kind of working. But without that, they're just chucking threes. They aren't really very good. And it was, it was just draining life out of stuff. So to me, that that part has been such a jolt. Like, they're, they're like a top five offensive defense with Jimmy, but they were bad offensively. Yeah. Bad. Bad. And bad. And bad.

And boring. It's a bad combo, right? You don't want to be bad and boring. So you wrote that article on the suffering Mavs fans. Do you think when Cuban sold the team, Mark has a pretty good sense of business, timing, and exit strategy? Absolutely. Why do you think Cuban sold? I tend to think everything, Mark's again, Mark is very good at seeing around corners.

I can disagree with them sometimes on loving NFTs in Bitcoin or politics or whatever it is. But it just feels like Cuban sold the team and it hasn't felt the same since he sold it. You know, the fact, like when he sold it, I thought, is this a Vegas move? you sell it to the Vegas billionaire, the Adelson family, right? The wife of the famous, you know, Vegas casino guy, the one who got fleeced by Mark Davis,

oddly enough for the Raiders. But I thought it's just a Vegas move. And one of the things that I've learned from Joe Lakeb and the whole A's debacle, because you know Oakland has lost its teams. And it's all boils down to, you got to be ready to spend 1.5 to 2, billion on the stadium.

Yep. You just have to be able to do that. And if you're not ready to do that, now you're relying on your local municipality to come up with the money. And I'm like, I'm thinking Cubans are, do I want to spend a $2 billion stadium or cash out and get my billions? Right. It's the opposite move of what John Fisher did with the A's. Sell the team to get billions or no. Now he's playing in like a high school stadium in Sacramento because they don't want to sell.

that that's what I thought. I don't think at any point he thought Luca was going to be traded. You know why? You know why he didn't think that? Because you don't trade Luca. Right. Ever. At least you don't do it at 25 years old, right? So I wouldn't be surprised if Cuban knew

that it's going to be tough to get the stadium we need. Because remember he, remember when he bought that team and he was right? It was like, oh, they got the new fancy the lockers and they treat the players top-not, like, like,

you've got to be top-notch now, and that's $2 billion. That's $2 billion. You just got to have $2 billion. I think he saw it might be tough to get a stadium. Let me sell it. Let me take the profit instead of digging a bigger hole. And if that means the team goes to Vegas,

like that, it's off my hands, so to speak. That's the best I can think of. But I agree with you, one million percent Cuban, Cuban saw this seven steps away. He was on it. I'll throw my LeBron theory at you.

LeBron has always avoided a mess. So he leaves Cleveland. He plays in the Olympics, and he's like, man, I got to play with good players. Dan Snyder can't get me. He goes to Miami four finals. Wade and Bosch, especially Wade is struggling to play back to backs. He bails. He's right. He goes to Cleveland, gets the title. Kyrie's like, I don't want to be here. We're maxed out, he leaves. A second time, this time everybody's good with it. He goes to the Lakers.

People love Lanzo, Ball, Kyle Kuzma. He didn't. He got rid of him. Brings in AD. Ady was great. And I believe LeBron realized as he aged about two years ago that he could not be on every possession, every night, the lead initiator. And Austin Reeves is more of a three or a four than a two.

And so I think he was looking for Steph two years ago. Oh, no question. He made overtures and went back channels with Steph, and stuff's like, man, I'm good here. And then I think he was interested in Yoko. And I think it happened to be like, hey, do you want to come here instead? That was part of the conversation. How about, Brian, you can come here. He knew Yokic could also make the game easier for him.

Denver's not interested. And I think when Cuban sold the Mavericks, I think LeBron went back channels, thought to himself, here's the moment. I'm going to make sure he knows. I like him a lot. I think eventually he made it known upstairs. Guys, I'm getting older. I cannot play 40 minutes. I love AD to death, but I can't be the play initiator every damn time down the floor. I can't do it. I mean, there are times now when you watch him, now Austin Reeves hasn't played in a couple games, when Luca and Austin are there together. I mean, it's like LeBron's got a smile on his face. He's just He's floating in the wing.

And by the way, he's earned that, by the way. He's earned the right to be. Absolutely. But I do think, I think, and this is not a criticism, I think LeBron's the smartest player in league history, arguably in a short list. I think he's calculated. And the idea that he just woke up one day and went,

well, what do you know? We got Luca, the perfect teammate. I don't buy that. I just, I mean, Marcus, I'm not a tinfoil hat guy. but LeBron is too smart. He's too much of a businessman. I think he made, he let everybody know, Luca is the target.

You think I'm nuts? I don't. I just wonder how you keep that quiet. Because one thing Brian hasn't been great at is keeping all this stuff quiet. So, Occam's razor come into play. What's more likely that LeBron pulled this from behind the stream,

which I'm not saying is off the table, or Nico Harrison was like, I got the move that's going to make me a legend. I don't know. They're both kind of wild. Did he really just do this, though? Did Nico just decide, you know what? I'm going to call Rob Polinko.

We're going to make this happen. That's almost as crazy. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called,

Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing.

a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funny.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis,

and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lerner Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What did you make in New York watching them? What do you make of the Knicks?

Nix was just disappointing, man. I'm going to give a pass because towns wasn't out there. But for a team they can't shoot threes, they sure jack a lot, but I don't like their will at the end. And I wonder if Tibadoe has worn them down. They, they, they, their will on the defensive end has this limit. It has this limit. No, it can't just be Hartenstein. They're just not as good.

Yeah. You can, you can break them defensively. And that's, that's going to be troubling. Now, again, playoff basketball is different. It's half court to half court. It's matchup base. But I'm wondering, what are their legs like? Like, what is, what is their psyche like after, what is this year three?

or four of Tibbs. And I don't know. Like it's Guy Santos. It was Guy Santos cooking. Like we're not talking about like Staple's cool. Like Jimmy Butler was okay, but they're getting outworked by guys who should be in a G league. They,

their will just break sometimes. Like if you watch the Knicks, they just, they just decide to give up. And then it's like Brunson goes save us. So I don't, I mean, obviously Boston and Cleveland are at the top,

but I'll tell you this. If I'm New York, I don't want them pistons in the first round I'll tell you that much You don't want to see the pistons in the first round That young hungry team Full of athletes who will in the fight Yeah nah

I don't know if they have the will So again they didn't have town So that's something But I'm worried about the next team I'm not quite Stephen A Smith level worried But I'm worried about the next team Well I've watched them play Boston twice And I've watched one of the Cleveland games

And they attack Carl Anthony Towns in the pick and roll. I mean, they just attack them. I don't know. Tows is not going to solve this problem in the playoffs. No. They might be able to score more, which will help you against some teams.

But if it's like a dog talented. Yeah, no, he's talented. Yeah, no question. He'll go out and get you some buckets in the playoffs. And he'll create some moments.

But like this team, you know, if they get either Boston or Cleveland in the second round, I just don't know. And they have to get. They have to get one of them, right? Yeah, they just don't match. Cleveland is so a fake.

Cleveland and Boston are the two best teams in the league. They can defend the rim. They can defend the perimeter. They've got scoring guards. They've got scoring wings. They're both efficient. They're both efficient. They would score.

Yeah. Yeah. I always say if Derek White is some nights, the fifth best player on your team, that is a, it's almost like they, you know, with the new taxes and the new ceilings and the way it works. The second aprons and junk, yeah.

All the second apron shit. It's like Boston for about two years beat it. They've got a roster that you couldn't build right now. But they kind of grandfathered it in. And they just got too many good players. Yeah. In Cleveland, man, that Deontre Hunter trade was like unfair. They were already really good.

They just got another. And that's the thing about all these guys. Like, you got to be able to guard wings. And you look like, you just listed like four people of Boston who could guard wings. Cleveland just added another guy. They've got guys who can guard wings. That to me is going to be like,

I'm not putting Oklahoma City in there yet because I want to see them in the playoffs, guard wings or guard the explosive point guard. Like they've got the bodies, they got the stats right. They rank pretty well defensively. Playoffs are different months. It's just different.

It's just different. And this Cleveland team, you've had Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mowgli, you know, last year they kind of disappointed us. Oklahoma City feels like Cleveland last year. Yeah. Really impressive, but not quite ready to go on the road and give you A plus plus stuff from role players on the road.

I think Cleveland's ready to do that now. Mowgli just, Mowgli's better every year. Yeah, and again, they've added the upgrade pieces too. Like, they didn't just run it back with the same team. And that's what we're going to see about, okay, see. Maybe Shay is just that good where he figured it out, like he felt it they lost to Dallas he went to work and got better

maybe he's enough and jalen williams is enough next to him i just want to see it first because experience matters a lot man just the playoffs are a different monster like if they get yokic i love chet holgren what is he doing with nicole yokic like that's just gonna be a tough like you got to fight

you got to fight out of that series So you know, Jamal Murray shows up, it's over. You know, always show up. But when he does, it's pretty good, right? So that and Russ, you're like, you got to have to fight to get out the West. So I'm curious about how the kind of fight Oklahoma City have. If they got it, they should be in the finals. If not, it's going to be a long offseason for Sam Presti because he's got like a bounty of stuff that's like, at some point,

you probably need to cash in all these assets you're so famous for and get something, right? go go get Janice then if he can't win like go do something with all that that's who that's where lucas should be i'm like hey give me all that stuff for lucca that's right he should be in oklahoma city with my seven picks three young players and defensive stoppers and all that that like if if they got a win otherwise sand pressing needs to go in and cash in that winning ticket he's got or the winning tickets well i mean every other NBA draft is you know fairly talentless. This past draft, it just, there's not a lot there. So, like, you can have all these draft picks, but what you have to do is when you get that every third draft when it's

really deep, you got to go all in. And then, then, I mean, I couldn't tell you the last time we had great back-to-back drafts. That's just not the way it works anymore. You get, like, a good one, a bad one, a moderate one, a good one. So I think, okay, I think Presti's sharp. You know, it's, I worry about Holmgren long-term his body, but they got waves of players. You want to see Katie? back there? It's interesting. J-Mack on my show today. I don't know if it's a very attractive place for KD, but I will say this. I don't know his relationship with Presti. If you're asking me if there's a dude that works, it's Oklahoma City and KD because he doesn't need the ball. He is catch and shoot and SGA needs the ball. So, yeah, I mean, I'd catch in a lot of chips.

That'd be a two-year experiment, but Jesus, him, Holgren, SGA, Williams, Jesus. That is a lot of buckets. That's a lot of buckets. A lot of thin buckets, too. Marcus Thompson. Great seeing you, man. Love seeing you.

Likewise. Likewise. It's hard out here in these streets. I got my new assignment. I'm covering figure skating, world championships. For who? For the athletic.

I am an accomplished Olympic writer now, Colin. I was in Paris. covered in track and field. And now I'm going figure skating. Can you imagine me at the figure skating? I'm in this thing. I'm out here, Colin. Wow, good for you.

Well, you're a great writer. So you've got the ability to do different things? I'm taking advantage of it now. I'm looking forward to this. So, yeah, yeah, let's go. Next time, we're going to talk about the quad god in advance of the winter. I can't promise you that. For the athletic, the very talented Marcus Thompson.

Thanks, buddy. Thanks for having me. My gosh. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We get to ask other people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired. It's a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines.

and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art.

The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcasts for no nonsense break. breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.