The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Prime Cuts: Watson Trade, Baker with Mary Kay Cabot, Matt Mosley on Cowboys Bad FA & Mark Cuban on Luka, Business

Episode Date: March 26, 2022

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First Colin's top takes of the week (3:00), including thoughts on Deshaun Watson to the Browns, a prime landing spot for Baker Mayfield, the severe backlash that will come from the Watson signing, why Jimmy G is more in demand than Baker despite uncertainty after surgery on his throwing shoulder.Then, longtime Browns beat writer Mary Kay Cabot (21:00) to discuss the public divorce between Baker and the Browns, when the relationship became too toxic to run it back, why the Browns felt comfortable signing Watson despite sexual assault allegations, how they are preparing to handle the public backlash and what Mary Kay saw all the way back at the Senior Bowl that gave her reservations about the Browns drafting him 1st overall (49:00).Next, Cowboys writer - and The Doomsday Podcast host - Matt Mosley (37:00) discusses how off-field scandals involving Jerry Jones and Cowboys execs have impacted Dallas' lackluster free agency period, if Dallas and their the dominant D is due for a pullback after losing Randy Gregory, if Amari Cooper's impact on Dak has been overstated, if Dallas fans could turn on Dak with another season of playoff disappointment.Finally, Mavs owner - and host of Shark Tank - Mark Cuban (53:00) explains how Luka Doncic has matured since entering the NBA, how today's young stars are different than past generations, how he's connected with his kids using TikTok (26:00), the future of consuming sports media going, and what NBA rule he would change.Make sure to Subscribe and follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The always tied in Mary Kay Cabot, insights on the Browns landing to Sean Watson and the ugly Baker Mayfield divorce. Cowboy Insider Matt Mosley looks at how Dallas plans to replace Amari Cooper and Randy Gregory. So far, no answers. Maverick's owner Mark Cuban. His relationship with Luca, what's next in business and the media. But first, my top takes of the week. a lot of NFL stuff to talk about.

Okay, Deshawn Watson's now, a member of the Cleveland Browns, and the Browns are going to look to trade Baker Mayfield. Let me start with this. Baker Mayfield's market is really small. So just go team by team in the AFC and NFC. I'd make the argument the only place Baker Mayfield's a viable option is Seattle. Tough division. Don't have a starter.

fairly desperate 70-year-old coach that wants to win now. He's not going to go to New Orleans. They wanted to go big game hunting with Deshaun and missed out. He's not going to Atlanta. Matt Ryan may get an extension. He's got one year left and he's too expensive. He's not going to Carolina. They're already paying $18 million for Sam Darnold.

The Jets are staying with their guy. The Giants are standing with their guy. Washington got their guy. Philly's standing with their guy. Look around the National Football League. It seems to me the spot is Seattle. I don't think he's worth probably more than a sixth round pick, maybe a fifth. Remember, he's only got one year left on a contract, and he's expensive at $18 million.

What are you going to give up for Baker Mayfield? There's no guarantee you get him for two years. And I'm not so sure Seattle's not going to draft a quarterback, Malik Willis, out of liberty with their first pick. So there's not much of a market. Cleveland's not going to get much. As far as Deshawn Watson, listen, he's got a lot of detractors. He's better than Baker Mayfield. The Browns today are better than that we're a year.

ago. Here's the issue with Deshaun Watson. It's a super expensive contract. So at some point, not this year, but at some point in the next three to four years, you have to pay the Piper on this stuff. You're going to have to probably move off a couple of expensive players. So I've said this with Dak and I'll say it with Aaron Rogers. You can kick this shit down the road. But when you pay Deshawn Watson to be the highest paid quarterback in the NFL. And in my opinion, he's not a top five quarterback in the NFL. He's somewhere between eight and 12. But we haven't seen him play much and we haven't seen him play well mostly in the last two years. So I don't like the contract. If it significantly bothers you, I got your back on that. I totally understand it from a

football perspective. I thought they paid a little bit too much for him. He also may serve a fairly long suspension in year one. So just look at the division. The Bengals have upgraded their offensive line. The Steelers have upgraded their offensive line and at quarterback. Baltimore. Lamar's healthy. They've upgraded their roster.

There's a real chance. Deshawn Watson doesn't play in September. So if you're a Browns fan, this is a long-term investment. Don't get your hopes too high for this year. There's going to be a lot of noise. a lot of pushback, a lot of controversy, a lot of ugliness. He may not play in September and early October. There's a lot of unknowns with Deshaun Watson.

And if you are deeply bothered by him playing in the NFL, I get it. You know, my wife and I talk about this all the time. There are certain artists she just refuses to listen to. There are actors that she won't support. And I'm like, I get it. I totally support it. Having been a sportscaster in my entire adult life, you know, If I turn the television off every time an athlete did something that I find detestable,

you know, there'd be moments where I wouldn't be able to talk about certain topics I'm supposed to talk about. But I get it. The allegations are grotesque. I've got a daughter. I've got a wife. I've got a sister. They're detestable. And I would just say, temper your enthusiasm as a Brown fan for a year.

we have not seen Deshaun Watson play in a long time. He may not play early. That's a big contract to live up to. And that division today, Baltimore, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh are all better this morning than they were at the end of the season. So we've seen a lot of quarterbacks move already in this off season. Matt Ryan to Indy, Deshaun Watson to Cleveland, Mitch Trubisky to Pittsburgh. and of all these quarterback moves, Russell Wilson to Denver,

we have two guys out there, Jimmy Garoppolo and Baker Mayfield. Now, Jimmy Garoppolo's lack of offers is fairly predictable. Kyle Shanahan's an offensive genius, and he's bailing on him. Doesn't help the market. Secondly, injury-play career. Third, he can't throw a football due to surgery on his throwing arm for a month.

those would appear to be major roadblocks. An offensive coach is like, I'm moving off him, gets hurt a lot, and now can't throw a football for four months. What is it going to say if Jimmy Garoppolo is signed before Baker Mayfield? Baker Mayfield is now ready to play. He's cheaper than Jimmy Garapolo. He can throw a football probably in about two weeks. And he's younger and is a better overall talent with a better arm. That's why he was the number one pick.

If you look at all the quarterbacks that have moved, all have issues. Trubisky, a limited arm talent. But he's a nice guy and he's athletic. Matt Ryan, declining immobile. But he's viewed as a nice guy, smart guy, gets along with people. DeShon Watson, lot of baggage, viewed as a supreme slash elite all-time talent. All that's left is Baker and Jimmy Garrow. And according to John Lynch, the Niners GM, they already have a team willing to give up a second round draft pick or two to get him.

The only quarterback not moving, no offers, crickets is Baker Mayfield. Is he the least talented? No. Is he the least healthy? No, that's Garoppolo. His inability to get along with people. his inability to fall on the sword is literally taking a playoff game winning quarterback in Cleveland off the market. Now, think about that.

If I told you four years ago, Baker Mayfield will actually be 500 and win a playoff game, do you think you'd figure the Browns would let go of them a year early and he would have no trade market? Just say that out loud. Yeah, Baker Mayfield is going to go to Cleveland. The NFL's worst franchise. Four years, 500 record with two really bad coaches. One of them, Freddie Kitchens, who's never really been a coordinator. And oh, yeah, he'll win a playoff game.

He'll beat Pittsburgh. Yeah, they dumped him a year early. This is why when he grabbed his crotch at Oklahoma. This is why when I heard he was difficult at the Senior Bowl. I'm not beating up on anybody. There's no reason for Baker to not have a market. He's not in the worst physical shape. He's not having surgery on his throwing shoulder.

He doesn't have 22 civil cases. He doesn't have a weak arm like Trevisky. And he's not that expensive like Deshaun or Garopolo. It's the inability to get along with people. Owners, GMs, media, teammates, medical staff, being likable. I know it sounds corny and very Midwest. It matters. It matters on the coasts, too.

One of the most shocking moves, or perhaps the most shocking move of the free agent period, was Devante Adams bailing on the Packers and Aaron Rogers. Listen, in the end, I don't have a problem with what the Raiders paid Devante Adams. because they have an elite quarterback who they're going to have to make a big decision on, they have a top five running back, a top two tight end, and maybe in Hunter Renfro, the best slot receiver in the league. They would not be going after Devante Adams unless it was an area of need. They need a number one. And by landing it in their division, they feel like they have the ammunition to compete.

I loved the move. And can we be honest about this? Giving up picks for star players, haven't the L.A. Rams sort of shown us the way? If you can get a Jalen Ramsey or a Matt Stafford, go get it. It's better than an interior defensive lineman from South Carolina, who's 22 years old, you're crossing your fingers. You don't know if he can play. So I got no problem for Devonthe Adams in the AFC West with an elite quarterback.

We're not talking about unknowns here. We know the Raiders in the draft now can go after and help the right side of their offensive line. It's not bad on the left side, not great on the right. They also signed Chandler Jones to go with Max Crosby. It created clarity. By getting Devante Adams, it created clarity. Let's solve the right side of our offensive line in the draft. Let's solve our secondary.

Everything else, they're good. I'll say this. I talked to a general manager over the weekend. said, forget a number one receiver. The Packers don't have a number two receiver. He goes, I'm not sure they have a number three receiver. And how many years can they get out of Mercedes-Lewis? Green Bay right now doesn't have the weapons. And I hear this. Well, Aaron Rogers, 7-0 without Devante Adams. Folks, it's one thing to miss Devante Adams for a week or two or a game or two. Going into a season without Devante Adams or a number two receiver is different. My wife can be gone

for a weekend, the house is fine. If she left for 17 weeks, the place would burn to the ground. It's much different preparing against the Packers knowing they don't have a one, knowing you can put intense pressure on Aaron Rogers and he doesn't have his back shoulder partner than missing him for a game. Okay? This is a whole different ball game now. Remember, Green Bay again is going to have a first place schedule.

You can go look at who the. Packers play. The games are not in order yet. Go look at their schedule. It's again a rough one for Green Bay. I thought it was a staggering loss in a league that is increasingly about quarterbacks, their weapons, and pass rush. They don't have an elite pass rush. And they may now, this morning, I'm not even sure this is arguable. Green Bay has the worst wide receiving core in the league this morning. It's a bunch of three and fours, and they may be all fours. Matt Stafford signed a contract extension. No big press conference, no drama, no holdout. You would not have known about it, if not for the Rams Twitter account. You know, years and years ago, I said this and got some

pushback. I said, how do we know that Stafford's not a better quarterback than Aaron Rogers? Matt Stafford was a better high school quarterback than Aaron Rogers, not close. He was the number one high school quarterback in the country. Aaron Rogers went to a junior college. He was a much better college quarterback than Aaron Rogers. Stafford picked number one. First couple of years as a starter in the NFL, he was better than Aaron Rogers' first couple of years.

Aaron Rogers didn't start until year four. Matt Stafford, first three years, went to the playoffs once. So we know that Stafford, high school college, first three to four years in the pros was a better football player than Aaron Rogers. Then he simply couldn't overcome the nonsense of the Detroit Lions. Finally this year, he gets a legitimate squad, good management, excellent coach. Wins a Super Bowl.

By the way, with Jim Caldwell four years, winning record in three of them. Matt Stafford, between his arm talent, between his emotional discipline, next five years, what if he wins another Super Bowl or two? Who's going to be better? We also know that Stafford has more come from behind wins than Aaron. Rogers. Already. Already. We also know it was the highest rated fourth quarter quarterback in the NFL. 14 TDs, no picks, highest second half passer rating. Sometimes this is why I hold back on criticizing people with big, strong opinions in sports. If you had said five years ago,

Stafford's better than Aaron Rogers. People would have said that's ludicrous. What if they repeat? What if Aaron doesn't win the division this year? Which, I'll say this second, I would take Minnesota. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

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Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite

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It's not a hot take. Matt Stafford this weekend signs a contract extension, $40 million a year. If not for the Rams Twitter, you would not have known about it. Jesus, Aaron Rogers' contract extension was a certain. A self-promoting circus. Take a shot on college hoops this March, and right now we're in March with a risk-free bet on Fandall Sportsbook. Doesn't matter if you're new or already have an account with Fandul. All customers get a risk-free bet on the bracket.

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Check it out. Benhogangolf.com. Well, I've been having her on as a guest, either on a TV show or a radio show or this podcast for a long time. I in no way I'm trying to age her. I will say she is ageless. Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland Brown's Beat Rider for Cleveland.com. Talk about, talk about an interesting month for you. So, so I'm going to throw out Mary Kay kind of my theory, and this has always been my theory on our business. Stuff gets out when people want it out, whether I worked at ESPN or Fox. If something's out, somebody's salaries out or demands are out, you know, management or the people want it out.

So it was my takeaway that between Cleveland.com and other NFL sources, that the GM, Andrew Barry and Kevin Stefansky, had no problem with it being out there that they were done with Baker. And it was almost a trap to see how he reacted because they do know that he is, number six is pretty popular in town for a lot of fans. and if he demanded a trade, it frankly made it easier for them. But my takeaway was Mary Kay. They didn't have any problem with it being out there. We want to get out of your business. And they were kind of, let's just see how he reacts.

And he reacted like Baker would react. I'm going to demand a trade. But when the stuff was out there, you know, we want an adult at quarterback in various reports. And I'm not, this is not a negative. But my takeaway, it's the front office, Cleveland, the ownership, kind of wants. it. Am I wrong? Well, I definitely think they wanted to upgrade at quarterback this off season. I do think that they wanted to do that. I don't think they felt that they were going to have a realistic shot at actually doing it. I think they were looking at some of the elite quarterbacks. They were not

going to make a lateral move. They didn't want a Jimmy Garapolo. This was going to be a situation where if they could get a Russell Wilson or an Aaron Rogers or a Tom Brady or lo and behold, a Deshaun Watson, that they were going to go for that. And that was going to be it. Short of that, they were going to really seriously run it back with Baker Mayfield or at least try to and see what they couldn't get out of him for that final year of his contract. And I truly believe that at the combine, when they talked to his agent, that they intended to have Baker come back because I don't think they really believed they could get one of those elite quarterbacks.

What changed? What changed was the grand jury decided not to indict Deshawn Watson and they jumped in and they went into their heavy, dogged pursuit of Deshaun Watson. And once again, still not being sure if they were going to be able to pull it off because, of course, other teams were going to be involved. And, you know, Deshaun, I don't think he was overly excited about playing up north, playing in the cold weather. So they were going to have to come in really large with their offer and make sure that they not only gave offered the three first round picks, but more than that. And then, of course, in the end, it came down to the money. And they really came through with an enormous contract. You know, Mary Kay, you had reported if they didn't land as Sean.

They were going to look elsewhere. What was elsewhere? Well, actually, you know, once they were out of the Deshawn Derby, on Thursday, when they were told that they were, that was it. You know, I initially thought that they would look elsewhere. But what happened was when he pulled out of there and told them, you know, that's it, you're out. they had a conversation with with baker's agents and and they were told they told them that they wanted baker to come back and and start for them and I truly believe that I truly believe they thought you know what this will blow over you know we can make this work we can

mend the fences unruffle the feathers and have Baker come in now we've got a Marie Cooper we'll draft another receiver and then we'll worry about getting a quarterback somewhere down the road. I think that was the plan because there was really no one else left at that point that they felt good about. But then I think that Baker and his camp boiled those plans by basically saying, no, we want to be traded. And, you know, he's probably not coming. And I wrote about this today in my Browns Insider. He had no intentions of coming back. He would not have come back for the offseason program, would not have been here for the mini camp, probably would have held out for some or all of training.

camp and hope that the Browns cave by then. But this situation was going to get ugly in a hurry. Listen, you're going to get, and you're already seeing it, the inevitable pushback on Sean Watson, who has apparently done bad things, though not charged yet. Is Cleveland and that front office and Jimmy Haslam, are they ready for it? This could get really ugly. You know, that's a great question. I think that when you're in the heat of the moment and working on a deal like this and the front burner thing is getting the deal done and, you know, and bagging the player and getting him into your city, sometimes I think it's hard to really gauge what the backlash is going to be. And I know that they have faith in that player. I know that they believe that he is not this bad person that we are led to believe by these 24 accusations.

They have a comfort level with him. They believe, and they seem to know through their investigation and their vetting of Deshawn Watson, that he is not someone that they are going to have to worry about people accusing him of sexual misconduct as they move forward. Okay. We haven't had a chance to ask them yet why they are so confident. All we've seen so far are their statements. So we have to delve into that and not even sure yet when we're going to have an operation. to do that. I'll be going to the owner's meetings. I'm leaving on Sunday for the owner's meeting. So,

you know, I will have a chance to talk to the Haslums there, I'm sure. But just in terms of the press conference, you know, I'm sure we'll talk to maybe Andrew this week, Kevin Stefanski this week. But I don't know if they were completely prepared for the backlash. I was thinking about this yesterday. You know, I think you could could do this in some cities where you might be able to get away with it without as much of a backlash. But Cleveland is a big market for being a smaller market. It is in a lot of ways. It's a big market. It plays big nationally. It moves the needle nationally. National media are always all over the Cleveland Browns. It's just a, it's a big name team somehow, some way. And I think it's going to be a long, hard road for the Cleveland Browns to sell this to their fans and make

them feel comfortable. There's a lot of anger. There's a lot of hurt feelings right now. There's a lot of excited people, but there's a lot of people that need to try to understand how they could bring a person seemingly like this onto the team and into the community. Well, and Mary Kay, there will likely be a league suspension for some time. He may not play in September. Now, obviously a move like this is a big picture move. They didn't get to Sean for September. They gotten for the next three to four years to kind of, you know, straighten out the franchise. You know, I don't want to put you in a position to guess, but I wouldn't be shocked if he just didn't play in September.

The league came down and said it's a four to an eight game suspension. Do you have a gut feeling on it? I mean, having covered this league for as long as they, as you have, also something that's important, this is detestable to men, obviously, but to women who. who are making up increasingly a large share. I'm not sure if people are aware how popular the NFL is with women. I saw numbers a year ago. I was, and I try to stay up on this stuff.

I was blown away by it. It's like there is a, not only a sizable percentage of fans or women, it's growing so fast. And if he doesn't play in September, you're reminded of it again and again and again. I mean, what's your hunch on a suspension? Has it been talked about inside, you know, the executive suites. Do you think Jimmy Haslam and those guys? Well, I would think that they have had some conversations with the league

and they have probably had some indication of what that suspension could be before they took this on. And of course, it's probably an estimate, but I would guess somewhere around six games. If it's eight games, you know, maybe they hope that it gets knocked back a little bit somehow. But I think that, you know, you could expect it'll be somewhere between four and eight games that he will miss. I mean, Kareem Hunt missed eight games for his indiscretions, which included, you know, on video, kicking a woman in the hallway of his apartment. So I would think that it's somewhere around there. And that's going to be something that they're going to have to deal with. And I think that, you know, this is big.

this is one of the most controversial stories in the history of the NFL. I mean, this is big. And the way, and this story is, I think it has a tendency to, I think it might kind of take on a life of its own. That's what I think. Right. And I mean, there are 22 civil lawsuits pending right now. And unless they settle these suits and dispatch them and get that figured out,

out. I mean, this could go on for a long time. And then the other thing to consider is, what if somebody else comes out of the woodwork? What if there is another criminal complaint? I mean, I think that people need to be realistic. I mean, what if something like that happens? So I think that this is an enormous thing that they took on. And I think they feel very confident that they were justified in doing so and that it's going to work out just fine for them. But it's going to be a long hard road. And there's a lot of work to do for everybody involved. I think in the end, though, Mary Kay, my take away on Baker was it was time for a split.

You know, Baker's almost better to date than Mary. You know, if I could use that metaphor. It's just Cleveland has had enough rockiness in their life. They really need an adult. That's why I thought Matt Ryan was such a good fit. They kind of need a steady hand, which they arguably haven't had since Bernie Cozar or Ryan Sipe. I always had my misgivings about this because you had a very impulsive owner. You had moving parts GM coach. I just thought he was the wrong, you know, I thought he was the

wrong personality for the wrong time in Cleveland. Now, I may look smart today, but I always had this kind of feeling like Dorsey's ego and Haslam's ego and Baker's ego. It's just too combustible. Did you have a moment in the first year or two? And you thought, this is going to be a circus. Oh, yeah. It was at the senior bowl before he was even drafted. It was at the senior bowl when I went there to study Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield and really get a firsthand look at both of those guys.

Their personalities, the way they treated people, the way they treated staff members, the way they handled themselves in the media, the way the ball came off their hand, all the things that I try to see when I go to a senior ball because it's the last time you get to see these guys play some actual football before the draft. And back then, the way that I watched him move around the senior ball, I didn't like what I saw. They did not like what I saw at the senior ball. I did not like it.

Wow. And I shared my feelings with members of the organization. and they know it. I mean, like, I did just because I was like, I am not feeling it in terms of the leadership, the character and all of those things that, you know, that you would expect that you would want out of your face of your franchise. But I will say this, and this is important, they shot right back at me and said, that's what we're looking for. We're looking for the crotch-grabbing flag-planting dude that can pull this team up out of the doldrums.

Now, of course, you're talking about John Dorsey. Like you said, John Dorsey was the GM at that time. And that's what they wanted. They wanted a little bit of an MFer. That's what they want. They wanted a guy like that. Josh Allen didn't have the personality that they were looking for. Neither did Sam Darnel.

They wanted somebody that was going to take this bull by the horns and say, you know what, I've got you and I'm going to take you where you want to go and I'm going to kick some butt along the way. I mean, that's who they wanted. And that's why right now, you know, you can't say you need an adult in the room, in the quarterback room when you knew what you were getting. Now, of course, there's been a regime change since that. There have been coaching changes since then, which of course is the number one problem with the Cleveland Browns over all of these years since they came back in 1999, one coach after another, one general manager after another. I mean, they do have some stability now, and I do have faith in Andrew Barry, Paul D. Podesta, and Kevin Stavansky,

but we're still burning off the residue of dysfunction here. Definitely, right? I mean, and all of the instability. But that's what, that's, that's when I, he had me at hello. I mean, And I just, and I, you know what? I'm just saying at that senior bowl, it was, and other people know what I'm talking about. Other people know what I'm talking about. I watched him very, very closely there. And I knew that there were going to be problems. Bring in my buddy Matt Mosley, longtime Cowboys writer, co-hosts Doomsday Podcast with Ed Werder.

I have never felt the Cowboys are poorly run. I never have. I think they're competently run and have had a fairly keen eye on draft day the last several years. But I got to be honest. Weapons, O-line, pass rush all feel worse this morning. I feel like Matt, they got caught flat-footed a little bit in this free agency period. That's my perspective from the outside. You got boots on the ground in Dallas.

Does it feel like that to you a little? I think that's accurate. And what really got my attention was what happened. It was almost like I had gone on a spring break trip. It was almost like the Cowboys had gone on one, too. The Randy Gregory situation was they can try to explain it away. It was a major embarrassment to the organization, the way it went down. And with the backdrop of the family drama, the Rich Dow Ripple voyeurism charges,

allegations as well as an embarrassing story for Jerry that he apparently has a child that no one's known about out there and has maybe been making some payments but had not much of a relationship with, if any, when you weigh everything that's going on, I think it made the Cowboys look even worse. And one of the things I think when you think they have competent, and I would agree with you up to a certain extent. I think some of these drafts have been okay. But one of the reason Jerry loves being on so much and loves being at the combine that sometimes I think we get confused by his accessibility is like it equates to some level of competence. And I don't know if that's always correct.

And I will say the one to me, now Jerry has to be embarrassed about all this other stuff out there. but I think some of the negative stuff that happened with the on the field free agency type stuff falls on Stephen. And I think Stephen is going to have to answer for some of these things. And right now, when you look at what everybody else is doing and some of these cowboys, by the way, you said the O line, they've ended up on the Miami Dolphins O'Line. You look at what some of the other teams have done and the Cowboys don't seem to be keeping up. So I think the criticism is is accurate and necessary. Yeah, you know, the Brian Schottenheimer employment as special consultant, it feels kind of desperate. I mean, honestly, from the outside, I'm like, listen, man, they've had a rough couple months.

Schottenheimer was just run out of Jacksonville. I mean, I don't know. Maybe it's the Zeeq contract. The league is becoming a pass rush and weapon. League. I look at Dallas today, and to me, they're not a top 15 team in the league. I mean, seriously, top my head. Rams, bucks in the NFC. Bills, Baltimore, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, I think today, Denver, Chargers, Raiders, San Francisco. I mean, I start adding these teams up. am I too negative? I feel like they've taken a major step back.

I was really hoping you would just name all the players from those rosters. I'm really mesmerized by your ability to do that. But the only place I think you're maybe being a bit too negative, and I don't really have any problem with anybody being negative about the Cowboys, but is that they really only lost one member of the defense. I mean, we can debate the Amari Cooper thing and how much of a loss that was. But on defense, Randy Gregory is gone. He had six sacks last season and he looked really good.

And that is an embarrassment. What happened? But that embarrassment probably shouldn't overshadow the fact that they bring it to Marcus Lawrence back. We'll see what Fowler brings. He's been a decent pass rusher. They brought all their safeties back. And they've brought there pretty much the rest of the defensive line. and linebackers.

So I think probably the most dramatic improvement in the identity of the team became a big play, scoring defense. And I don't think, Colin, that's changed that much. Their numbers would suggest that they had some kind of great offense. But we know how fraudulent a lot of that was because of who they did it against and that they go 6-0 against their division opponents every year. But if I was going to say, if I was going to make an argument against what you're saying that they're maybe not a top 15 team, I would just say with Dan Quinn in this defense,

that I could make an argument that they might be a top five defense. And if that still stands for something, then I think they're going to be more than just a top, you know, they're actually in the top 15. You know, you look around at this free agency period. It's just it's just bat shit crazy. When I saw that Tyreek Hill, forget the dollar figure, went for five draft picks. I mean, I honestly, I was reading it on the air live. I'm like, Russell Wilson got five, five draft picks.

In the end, they let Cedric Wilson and Amari Cooper go. So that tells you they believe C.D. Lam is in. number one. I'm not disputing that. He can have the drops, but he is a number one talent. They believe Gallup is a strong two, and they'll probably draft a receiver. That would make sense to me. Where do you, my takeaway before Michael Gallup got hurt, not a great route runner, big kid who runs well. But are you surprised they have that much faith in Michael Gallup coming off the ACL? I am a little. Yeah, but I think it's more of disappointment. They had a chance to move off the Amari contract than even what they think of Gallup.

I think they think a lot of them. And I think when, if he can get right, and the problem is, I don't know when he's going to be ready. But when he's right, as far as like high-pointing footballs, I mean, Amari Cooper was one of those maddening guys. I mean, you know, the numbers, the route running, he was a tremendous route runner. He would go on the road and just completely disappear in games. And for some reason, he functioned better at home. He just had a, he was not consistent in the thought of him being a $20 million a year receivers crazy. And now, and I think you've said this on your podcast and TV show, the, these other teams, what would happen with the,

bingles with getting chase. We're seeing so many teams get tremendous the dolphins with Waddle, getting tremendous wide receivers in the draft that it's a little bit like we saw with running back. I mean, there's just, and that's why it's so shocking to see Tyreek and some of these receivers get monster deals because some teams like the chiefs, obviously, believe you can just land these guys in the draft, much like we started to think of running back. So I think your first thing you said was right. They think maybe they can find somebody at 24 or even in the second round that'll be fine at wide receiver. Think Taekwon Thornton. Okay. Colin, you can look him up later to see

what university he went to. But think of a speedy. Yeah, there you go. Speedy guy like a Taekwan Thornton or somebody like that. But I will say this, Gallup is when healthy, we'll see if he gets back to that. There's some thought that he could be as productive as Amari Cooper. And the problem with Cooper is he just, he's either way on or way off. There's not a 70, 80 yards a game kind of guy. He's not like one of these chiefs receivers or some of these places, bills, even, you know, Vikings that you wake up and you're like, oh, that guy's going to

get me 90 to 120 yards every week. Cooper went weeks and months at a time without getting you over 100 yards. But because he was from Alabama and at one point, once you're labeled as some kind of great wide receiver, it's hard to lose that. So that just was a complete money dump. But I think it's still perplexing to Cowboys fans that even knowing that, we know they're trying to move guys in the NBA. we know in the NFL they're trying to move guys and that you still end up getting huge return for them.

And they basically got nothing for Emory Cooper, other than getting him off the books. Three years ago, if you did on a poll in Dallas, DAC would be the most popular player. Zeke would be number two. And at the time, Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal,

but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep. That's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

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I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

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Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. R.A. would be number three. He emerged right when he came over. This morning, and cowboy fans have been at this long enough where, I mean, you do get some fanaticism. How are Dak and Zeke viewed holistically in the league now? If you went to an average cowboy fan and said, how good is Dak? How good is Zeke?

Are fans coming to terms in Dallas with Zeke? is really now a liability because of his contract. And DAC, it's been confirmed, is a B quarterback. I think they're not there with DAC. Zeke, yes. I mean, if they could move off that. I mean, unfortunately, nobody will trade for a running back that makes that much. They had an escape on Amari.

They can't get out of the Zeke thing. And it's really become another embarrassing moment for the team. they have to start each year pumping him up and doing basically a PR. And they've already got all sorts of other PR issues. Dak, because of the nature of who he plays for and some of the numbers he's put up in the way he's covered from a media perspective, you can, he's, he's not, he's at too high a profile place. and he's done too much as far as numbers are concerned to end up being viewed as a B quarterback at this point. Now, if he has another down season, what he has going for him is last year was all about the unbelievable return from a horrible injury.

And so that has provided some cover for him. And so I think he's viewed still as an A quarterback. and there'll be some people out there that try to make some argument that he's around the top five or top seven quarterback in the league. I don't know if I'm one of those people and I was the biggest that guy. Golly. I mean, when he came. You were big. No, he was just an unbelievable story.

But part of it, I've always tried to explain this to you was being around him so much as a rookie and covering him so closely. I was amazed at the leadership in the intangibles. and when you kind of see that up close and see how people respond to him. And by the way, that's still the case. Yeah. But some of the on-field stuff was very concerning this past season. Like what? He just the just the inaccuracy, the turnovers, the mistakes, the way the playoffs ended,

the way, you know, you think you, Grappalo, you know, you go into a playoff game. You think you should have that advantage and you don't. You don't end up having that advantage. And I think what happens is these players have the past ways on them in the sense that Romo went through his period of time and never got it done as a playoff quarterback, although he put up huge numbers. And so, Dak has to wear that a little bit. And so sometimes you think after a season, well, he's less like Romo. He's going to be great. He's fine.

And then what has to, and this is such a huge season for him because he's making enormous money, but he's age 28, soon be 29. And while that's still peak and should be in your prime, I don't think he can afford one of these middling type seasons. Again, there are enough sort of coverage and fanaticism, as you would call it, sycophants, as some others would call it, that love this team. and the way they cover it so much that by the time he ends up next season, he'll be talked about is like a top five. And then he's got to go out and prove it. I haven't completely closed the door on that happening.

I mean, like, he's still far from like where we are with like a Baker Mayfield or somebody like that today. Oh, no, yeah, yeah. I always said he's a more popular Kirk Cousins. We just like him more. Make sure to check out the Dramon Green Show. I brought Dramon Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. Also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady.

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See casper.com for more details. Well, we get him a couple times a year. Mark Cuban, owner of the MAVs since 2000, Shark Tank, Mr. Bitcoin, 200 wealthiest Americans. And oh, by the way, Mark Cuban cost plus drug company. Okay, so Luca Dantich, I admit, I saw his grainy tape from Europe. And I said this, he looks out of shape. I don't like his body. And obviously, he proved me wrong.

He's a tremendous player. Most people view him as the singular player in the league. they would start their franchise with today. Yep. But after his first year, there were questions about his fitness. How does Mark Cuban broach that? How do you go to a star who's going to be, you know, if he went to the open market, he'd have 30 suitors.

How do you go up to him and say, what did you have for dinner last night? How do you broach it? You don't. I mean, look, he's a smart kid and he understands what's going on. And he, you know, he feels that playing the game. games. I think it was an adjustment for him. Like every 19, 20, 21 year old goes through as you start to mature and every one of us goes through as we enter our careers, right? You go from being a kid, even though he was a professional kid, to being a pro and not just being a pro, being a superstar.

So, you know, there was an adjustment for him. And, you know, what people don't realize about Luca is not only, you know, is he a top three, if not better player in the game, but he's smart. He is so smart and he's got such a good heart that those things together, he's always going to try to do the right thing. That's just who he is. You know, Mark, there's the NBA since the 70s, I was a Seattle Sonics fan, Spencer Haywood basically back in the 70s. It was a players league. And if you're not comfortable with that, then you wouldn't like the league. I've always been comfortable.

It's a players league. NFL is more about the shield. Baseball's often more about the general manager. But international soccer in the NBA, it's about the star. player. You were one of the first owners. You may have been the first that went team playing upscale locker room, nutrition. You were kind of the first in. You had kind of a different view of the world. You were the youngest or first or second youngest owner in. And there's a fine line now as if you've aged between caring for the players and coddling them. And that's a real line.

I've said, I prefer Adam Silver style over David Stern, the danger with Adam. is sometimes I worry that he's almost two pro player. And what is that line as a sports owner between really being there for the player, but being tough and holding them accountable, they are employees and you have customers. Right. It's a great question. And the first thing you do is look at the players themselves because the player of 2022 is not the same as the player of 2015 as the same as the player of 2005 versus 1995.

The internet and social media have changed everything. And so, you know, what a 21-year-old is into today, what is important to them, how they communicate, how they communicate with fans or each other is night and day different than when I first came into the league. They're already brands when they come in. Right. Now with name, image, and likeness, they're wealthy brands in some cases. And they recognize the things they can and can't do in order to gain that income. And so by being a brand, by, you know, being on social media, not just for athletes, but for all of us is kind of performance art for all of us. We kind of pretend who we want to be and show the side of us we want to be seen.

And today's athletes have grown up that way. You know, the 21-year-old had got their, you know, their Instagram the minute they were old enough to get Instagram, you know, they got to snap that. And so dealing with that athlete today isn't about coddling them or not coddling them. It's about understanding them and understanding how they communicate and what's important to them. My son, my 12-year-old son, my 15- and 18-year-old daughters, you know, 10 years ago, if I had the 20 years ago, rather, if I had the same age kids, I'd be pushing them to read books, thinking that's the only way to learn. That's right.

You know, YouTube and TikTok, they get as much information there as they get anywhere else. Yep. How you communicate and how you connect to athletes today is geared more towards understanding them than rather some definition of coddling versus, you know, having them figured out for themselves versus, you know, you're on your own. Well, think about this, Mark. You didn't have Google growing up and yet you're a brilliant guy. My son is a sophomore in high school and he is already looking at ways to get out of high school sooner.

He's a super bright kid. And he's like, dad, I know what I want to do in life, cybersecurity. He's really good at it. He's got an LLC. He knows what he wants to do. I'll connect him with Robert Herchavik from Shark Tank. You will. Yeah, of course.

Oh, that's great. So my point is, this is not only happening to athletes, but our kids. We have an antiquated education system in many instances and brilliant kids. And not that it's a crisis, but I think it's something as a parent mark. You're dealing with this. I have a 16-year-old son and a 21-year-old daughter. They get bored more quickly. They're not as challenged in these sort of static educational block systems we have.

What do you do to your kids to say, hey, it's okay to be a kid. Go swimming today. Well, but you know, it's okay. Just like, look, we used to have the boob tube and our parents would be like, get out the phone or get out of your voice. You're going to go blind if you sit in front. You know, now instead of the boob tube, it's the boob blurb, right? Because it's 15 seconds, 30 seconds, but it's a constant source of information.

And so it's not so much, six years ago, seven years, eight, eight years ago, pre-Tik talked effectively. it was, okay, let's see where they are with their social media. Let's see where they are in their information consumption. Let's see what they're reading. And I still bribe my kids to read. My middle daughter gets Jordans if she reads 200, 300-page books, you know, and you can't explain it to me. My older daughter is past that. My youngest son or my son is 12.

They're on TikTok all the time. And so what I do is I try to watch them with TikTok but also get on TikTok with them. You know, it used to be, okay, what books are in the library and what are they reading or what books can I, you know, remember the Scholastic books? We'd come home and there'd be a check mark and you know, you'd get Robinson Caruso or whatever books your parents would pick and they'd get delivered in the mail. That was a big deal. Now, I think as a parent, I try to pay attention not only to their Instagrams, but also to TikTok because I can see the same. As long as I'm looking at the same type of stuff, I can see the same type of feed and understand. what they're learning and have conversations with them.

And so rather than trying to just pretend that I can get them not to do it, which I can't, it's just too easy to use TikTok. It really, really is. And so I have to make the time to get on TikTok. And I find myself now, you know how you get on the treadmill or bike or whatever and you try to kill time and you just want to divert your attention? Now I use TikTok. Like if I'm running or walking or biking, you know, I'm on TikTok just going through with the

30 second or whatever clips. And the time goes by faster, but it allows. me to understand my kids better. But it's still, I don't worry so much about the social media consumption as I do the direct messages because, you know, there's still my kids and they're going to be available and I have to go through rules with them about, you know, when people DM you, what you can and can and can't do and who you can and can't follow or who you can or can't let follow you. Yeah.

By the way, my morning routine is coffee 15 minutes of CNN.com, wordle for hopefully less than 10 minutes and then and then TikTok. My wife loves TikTok. She follows animals and food. It's just a steady stream. When that's the beauty of TikTok, right? And the brilliance of TikTok, it's all artificial intelligence. And by the way, TikTok like presentation of sports is the future of sports media. Period. End of story. It is the one thing. TikTok like presentation will say, could say baseball in terms of sports media because baseball actually is the perfect sport to present every at bat so look at this way TikTok uses AI to present the things you're interested in yeah so if my son and I like lucid don't just don't just gonna get a steady stream of that if we do if majorly baseball did a

ticot version call it red zone for the NBA or red zone for majorly baseball and all I care about was Ohani, the Texas Rangers and the Pittsburgh Pires. That's right. And every impactful at bat, you know, bottom of the ninth or runners and scoring position and I'm blazing through, it's showing me in real time a live feed of just that at bat or just that possession when Luca has the ball or just that dunk, whatever it may be from my favorite players, that's the future of sports media because we're not going to get our 16 year old or 12 year old or 15 year old to sit in for a full game.

It's just not going to happen. If you were evaluating new companies in 2002, 2012, and 2012, what is the biggest obstacle in this next 10 years for starting companies? Artificial intelligence, because there's two types of companies, those who are great at AI and everybody else. And you don't necessarily have to be great at AI to start a company. But at some point, you're going to have to understand. It's just like the early days of PCs. You didn't have to be good at PCs, but it helped. Then networks, and then the Internet, and then mobile.

All these evolutions in technology, you know, you don't need to know them to start a company. But even in sports, right? I mean, the conversations I have, it's not about analytics and what's the best thing of analytics. It's about computer vision and AI and pose estimation and, you know, precision medicine and, you know, blood analytics, whatever it may be. all these things that you have to pay attention to that are really the things that have the greatest opportunity beyond player development to give you a competitive advantage. Every league has strengths and weaknesses. I don't love baseball's 10-year contracts.

Football has regulated violence, but great players can be hurt. Basketball doesn't have the punitive contracts, and players don't generally have career-ending injuries. But if there was one thing with the NBA now that you say, guys, Mark, Mark Cuban's commissioner for six hours. You're going to make a change. What is it? Referees. You know, move the charge circle out some.

You know, Mark, I'll throw this at you. This is what I believe about the three point line. I would take out the corner three. So it would go into the bench because I think it's virtually impossible to defend the corner three and the basket. it. If you're big like a Bosch, Kevin Love, Durant can shoot a three. But then again, you know, it's not necessarily a bad thing, you know, that we just get that scoring more.

It makes you innovate more. So, you know, even, you know, you're seeing the mid-range make a comeback because defenses are so in tune to taking away the three, pump fake and, you know, you step in. But, oh, okay, I know what it would be. The rip-through.

I'd get rid of the rip-through so fast to make your head spin. Because if you and I, if you're standing there and you're defending me, Colin, and you put your arms out to defend. If your arm straight out and I do the rip through, right, it's a foul. If I took that ball and hit any other part of your body, it's a foul on me. Right. It makes no sense.

The defender's got just as much opportunity to put their hand out, as long as it's not on the offensive player's body. But, you know, you just put your hand out and, you know, put your hands out like you would taught to play defense, right? Hands up, hands up. if the offensive player can reach you with the ball, they're going to rip through and it's a foul. And if you're in the bonus, that's, you know, two easy points.

Get rid of that. Why do I have to in the NBA match salaries on a trade? It makes you less flexible as an owner, doesn't it? Less nimble. But it also deals with competitive balance, right? Because otherwise, you know, even with the luxury tax, you would have a team with a $500 million payroll. Is that terrible?

Yeah, it really, really is because it's, it, it, when you distort the economics too dramatically, it impacts fans, it impacts the ability for competition. It, you know, impacts ticket prices because as much, you know, sometimes you've got to really be concerned about where our ticket prices go. And I do get concerned. I mean, we've got 4,000 tickets of $29 and under for every game. We've got at least $2,000, I think it is, for $18 and under. And I get worried that, you know, we're not going to be as affordable as we need to be.

And so when salaries go up, not everybody's just going to absorb the losses. There's going to be teams that try to pass it on. At the volume sports, Twitter, Instagram, go to our YouTube page. At the Volume Sports, subscribe. The Volume. Right now, at O'Reilly Auto Parts, get up to a $15 gift card after mail-in rebate when you purchase Select Superstar batteries. With the power, performance, and reliability your vehicle demands,

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