The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast Prime Cuts -  WWE CEO Nick Khan on WrestleMania 39, Vince McMahon,  Stroud vs. Young w/ John Middlekauff + Wiggins Void w/ Jason Timpf

Episode Date: April 1, 2023

This is Prime Cuts! The best of The Colin Cowherd Podcast. First, Colin’s top takes of the week on how the gambling explosion has juiced March Madness ratings and how MLB’s rule changes immediately paid off on Opening Day. Colin is joined by WWE CEO - and former CAA Co-Head of Television - Nick Khan, to discuss the star studded card for the upcoming WrestleMania 39 at SoFi Stadium, the experience of working with Vince McMahon, how he plans to continue to grow WWE fan base, how he continues to find new talent, and how Vince McMahon’s return to the WWE after a hiatus has impacted the company. Then, Colin and 3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff discuss  if the Packers will wait until draft day to finally trade Aaron Rodgers to the Jets, if  Lamar Jackson needs to hire an agent to get a deal done, and if Ohio State QB C.J. Stroud is a lock to go #1 to the Panthers. Then, Hoops Tonight host Jason Timpf and Colin discuss if the Warriors have any shot to repeat without Andrew Wiggins, if the Suns are the favorites in the West, their take on the ongoing feud between Charles Barkley and Kevin Durant, and if the resurgent Lakers can realistically make it out of the West. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. It's the Colin Coward podcast presented by Fandul. The sports calendar is packed.

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Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com slash RG, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey. Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia. 1-800 next step, or text next step to 533442, Arizona. 1-88-78-9-7777 or visit CCP.org slash chat, Connecticut. 1-800-9 with it, Indiana. 1-800-5224,000. to visit KSgambling, help.com, Kansas, 18777-7-70,

Louisiana. Call 1-800-3-2-750-50 or visit www-W-Hopline. org slash problem gambling. Visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org, Maryland, 18778, Hope, New York, or text Hope, New York, 467, 369, New York, 1,800, 522, 4,700, Wyoming, or visit www. www.1,800 gambler.net, West Virginia. This is prime cuts, the best of the Colin Coward podcast. So, years ago, when I was very, very fortunate and got a job out of college in Las Vegas, working for a baseball team, the Las Vegas stars.

So I did that for a couple of years, sales, a couple of innings of play-by-play. And then I transitioned into working for a local NBC affiliate, KVBC, a Valley Broadcasting Company. Late Jim Rogers was willing to hire me. I was a weekend sports guy. And then a sports director. And during that, one of the things that I'm from the Pacific Northwest, as many of you know, that was really cool for me, is sports books. I'd never been to a sports book. I didn't, I'd never been to Vegas.

So I hung out in sports books a lot. I thought they're really coolest things in the world. I would finish my 11 o'clock sports cast on a Friday during the football season. I would go to Palace Station on Sahara, not far from my station in North Las Vegas. And I would place bets, college football bets, have a 99 cent breakfast, meet some guys. And then I would go home, sleep in. Back then, you'd wake up in the morning and, you know, the Florida State Seminoles will be and the Miami hurricanes at 9 in the morning.

Now they put all the really good college football games, mostly in the late afternoon and night. But I loved sports books and I love the guys that run them. And it was very obvious. There were two things where the books made a killing and they were completely electric. NFL Sundays and March Madness. And this past year, the NFL ratings were up. And what is significant about that?

54 quarterbacks or close played, 54 different quarterbacks played. So the ratings shouldn't be great, right? The stars drive any sport. But the ratings were up. And the ratings were up because of gambling, the rollout of gambling in this country, which I'm a proponent of and have been forever.

So the other thing that was wild to see, so when I moved to Vegas out of college, the Run and Robbles, Jerry Tarkany and Larry Johnson, Stacey Ogman, Anderson Hunt, Moses Scurry, Greg Anthony. You know, I got to cover that team. It was wild. But I would hang out in these sports books like everybody else, eating cheap food, drinking beer, March Madness, and the NFL. And other sports, certainly you'd have action, but those move the needle, and they still do. So the March Madness ratings have been really strong. And people tend to have opinions that work for their agenda. If you hate the NBA, you're like, see, the basketball's better.

No, it's not. There's no reason college basketball is getting these ratings. Nobody knows any of the players. I mean, if you're a Miami Hurricane fan, you do. But San Diego State fans don't know. Again, if you followed college basketball 20 years ago, the stars, the Patrick Ewing's, 25 years ago. Christian Leitner's, they came back for a third or fourth year. Now, if you go to a street and Smith and look at their All-American team, it's like four freshmen. They were in high school the year before. It's a very transitional sport, very transactional. And then you throw the portal into it. Christ, half the league, half the, there's 360 Division I programs. Five kids per team are transfer. It is just a non-stop merry-go-round. of one and done, players in and out of universities and programs.

There's no real emotional, visceral connection most casual fans to the teams. You know, the coach, maybe, you know the brand of Kansas or Syracuse. You don't know the players. And we don't watch soccer just because of soccer. The soccer that gets the most views has the biggest stars, the biggest brands, English Premier League. And so there's no reason for college basketball. You don't watch just for passion.

Little League World Series has passion. It doesn't get huge ratings. A lot of things have passion. The college baseball world series has passion. It doesn't get huge ratings. We bet on two things in America. The NFL and March Madness. And I mean, I'm watching this weekend.

I don't know any of these Creighton players. You don't follow Creighton basketball. You can pretend you do. You don't. People within 100 miles of that school. Unless they went there, they don't know who plays for Creighton. So I think it's great, but it shows you the importance of that connection to betting on sports. And we're really seeing it.

I think it's been a lot of fun. But I'm not going to lie. A big part of it is you're not turning off games, even lobsided games, because you want to see if you hit the over or the under the line. It's the power. if you really look at the people that have left sort of traditional linear TV, if you look at cord cutting and cable, sports rating should not be going up. You can make a lot of reasons why people are or are not watching stuff.

College basketball, NFL, the big winners, the big winners in the legalization of sports betting. So I watched two baseball games and two things were very noticeable. The game really moves now. The pitch clock speeds it up about 20 to 25 minutes a game. It is very noticeable. It moves. It's swift. Which sports should be.

And also, there were more base runners. I can't prove that. But I noticed in the games, I watched more stolen bases, more activity. You know, that thing people like to watch called. action. Those were the two problems with baseball over the last decade, declining attendance and declining TV ratings. The games were too long and didn't have enough activity. Hockey is over three hours. Lots of activity. Football over three hours. Lots of plays. Fewer huddles, more activity. Baseball was getting up around three hours, no bass runners. So you needed to change the defensive

shift. Those outs now become singles and doubles. more runners on, more stolen bases, more first to third, more second to home, more activity. It was noticeable in the two games I watched. But here's the thing about baseball. Football's different. I've never gone to a football game and not tailgated. College or pro, ever. I've never just shown up and gone to a game.

You tailgate. It's understood you give half a day to a full day if you're a Patriot fan in Foxborough. You get up, you have breakfast. You're going to tailgate. and then you're going to go to the game. And then you're probably, because Foxborough is hard to get out of, knock down a beer or a brat before you go home. You give the day to football.

So time becomes less crucial. Sundays in the fall, eight home games, those are eight sacred family and friend moments. Pictures, videos, food. But the more games you have, the less it becomes an event. Basketball 41 home games. I've never tailgated for a basketball game. Baseball, 81 home games.

Too many games for the games not to be succinct. It doesn't matter if it's a Broadway play. It doesn't matter if it's a movie. You go to a movie once a month. You're going to give it two hours. You go get a bite to eat before the movie. You go to the movie. After the movie, you go out and get a glass of wine with your wife.

You know, you go, you do that once a month. If you went to a movie four days a week, five days a week, you're not going to do that. It's too costly. You don't have that time. So the diehards will bitch and complain, and that's fine. They always do. I mean, go to Twitter, go to social media for five minutes. There are people on there.

Their entire feed is about complaining. I don't think it's just to get clicks. I think they're miserable. Some people aren't happy unless they're unhappy. And so people can complain, hey, Colin, you don't. Don't worry about it. You and the TikTok generation, I'm 59 years old, and I think baseball is slow. I'm not on TikTok.

I'm barely on Twitter. I'm never on Instagram. I have eight social media accounts. I don't have a password to any of them. They're run by my staff. I occasionally post on Twitter. That's it. Baseball was too slow.

And it's a killer with 81 home games and $100. 162 minimum over the course of a season. So people are going to complain the diehards. They're irrelevant. They're not going anywhere. They're scorpions in the desert. You can't kill them. The bottom line is keep it moving.

More base runners, more fun. And about the only downside in the stadium, you know, you always go to a baseball game. You have a couple of beers. You may not have time for a third now. Beer sales might decrease slightly. I think the sport, Budweiser, Stella, Corona will survive. But I noticed it about a month ago. I got in my car from my house to go to the grocery store.

It's about an eight-minute drive. It was a Dodger game. And they got through an entire inning. And I thought to myself, the late Vince Scully, what would he have done with a sport that moves so quickly? His stories, there would have been no time. But Vince Scully would have made his stories more succinct to fit in to the time.

I will watch significantly more baseball this year. And by the way, diehard guy, you're not going anywhere. You'll still watch too. So baseball got both of us. The tournament's heating up. No better place to get in on the action than Fandul. America's number one sports book. Okay, right now download Fandle.

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Fandul's app is safe, secure, easy to use, and you get paid your winnings really fast. The no-sweat first bet up to $1,000. promo code, Colin, make every moment more this season with Fandul. 21 plus in select states. Fandul's offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG Colorado. Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, Virginia.

1-800 next step, or text next step to 533342, Arizona. 1-88-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat, Connecticut. 1-800-9 with it, Indiana. 1-800-522-4,700 to visit KSgambling, help.com, Kansas. 18777-70-stop, Louisiana. Call 1-800-3-27-50-50 or visit W-WW-W-W-W-M-A-U-Sk, or helpline.org slash problem gambling. Visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org, Maryland.

18778, Hope, New York, or text Hope, New York, 467369, New York, 1,800, 522, 4,700, Wyoming, or visit www. www.1-800 gambler.net, West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman.

documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Nick Kahn, my friend and former agent stops by the volume today. from a practicing attorney to a mega agent to now the CEO of a public company, WWE.

So, WrestleMania goes Hollywood, Saturday, Sunday at SoFi, a spectacular venue, a spectacular venue. Roman Raines takes on Cody Rhodes, Brock Lesner, John Cena, the amazing Charlotte Flair, and others. So there are events weekly. This is your Super Bowl. This is it. Is it stressful for Vince, for you, for the performers? Do you, does it feel different? Look, I'll tell you this. I can't speak to being a performer.

Obviously, it's not what I do. But going out in front of 75,000 fans a night or whatever it might be, I remember hearing a story from Sugar Ray Leonard years ago. He said, there's nothing like a ringwalk. He said, you got 75,000, 50,000 people cheering for you, hearing your name. I'd get into the ring and I'd say to myself, holy shit, I actually have to fight, which I always thought was funny. But for us, I think WWU is a well-oiled machine. We have almost a thousand employees. Everyone's focus is on WrestleMania. So it's no more stressful

than any other week at WW. So not that it's a playbook, but when you first came to WWE, you did things that you and I had privately discussed for years about my business, which is play the hits, you know, the top five to 10% of any business are going to be your most dynamic revenue producers. So you have really zoned in on your Brock Lesnar's, John Cena, Charlotte Flair has never had a bigger profile. Roman Raines, you've elevated that. So is that easy? It's what you did in your career. So was that on your note card of things to do when you became, you know, the CEO. Was that one, or were there things that I don't notice that a non-WWE diehard wouldn't notice that you had to work on? Or was the system and the platform pretty solid and it just

needed tweaking? I think a couple things. I play the hits and part I learned from you. So if you look at your content on your daily show, it's some version of NFL, NFL, NBA, NBA, LeBron, big story of the day. It's not, and we had this conversation on day one of your show. It's not, let's put on this personality from baseball, who's only known in a local market. We don't need to mention any names. Right, right? It's play the hits.

What does the audience want to see? So I think the way that Vince and team built WWE was if you get a John Sina, if you get a rock, if you get a Roman reins, showcase them. And if you showcase them, as long as you can build opponents consistently, and there's not just one person carrying the load, as big as Roman is, all of the other superstars that you mentioned, they all carry a lot of stroke in our company. They all have big voices. So for all of those people to be on display over a two-night event at WrestleMania this coming weekend, we think it might give us a winning hand. So you've always had good instincts when you were an agent. And then you go

to WWE. And instead of dealing with high-maintenance people like me, you're not high-maintenance. You're dealing with a billionaire who had created something. revolutionary, transcendent. And with that comes its own challenges. Was it the transition from representing sportscasters? Now, you had big names, Herbstreet names, to now working alongside Vince McMahon, was the first six months, nine months a year? Was it difficult? Was it, you take me, how would you describe it? So I'll ask you a question back and then I'll answer of your question. When we worked together and I had the good fortune of being your agent, do you feel that I worked for you or that you worked for me? Well, it was symbiotic. I thought

we worked. It was a great partnership. But at the end of the day, my belief as an agent is that I worked for you. That's how I set it up in my mind. And yes, a great partnership. Typically, you don't feel that, oh, I just worked for this guy and it's that. It was never that way with you. But I was looked at it that way. And I always thought to myself, If I could help to deliver the goods to you, then you in return would extend the partnership and pay me commensurately or pay the agency commensarily. I took the same approach with Vince,

had the good fortune of starting to represent WW and their media rights ventures. So got to know him, got to know Triple H, Kevin Dunn, all the other good folks at WWE. So I had a really good glimpse of the company from the outside looking in. So when I started, I took the same approach. There was only one boss, Vince.

So I'd certainly try to get his buy-in on material things. It's no different than a client. If you have a differing point of view, you and I would talk about it in private. Yeah. And when we'd come out of the room, we were bonded. That was our position. It wasn't a, hey, guys, bad news. Colin doesn't agree with me.

So this is what we're going to do. You had your point of view. I had my point of view. You ultimately got to make the decision. Once you made the decision, it became our decision. And I think I took the same approach to WWE. The creative side. How much impact, I would imagine, substantial, did Vince have on creative?

And was he willing to let you early on tweak or give strong opinions on the creative side? I really haven't had much to do with creative. So certainly the talent deals I'm across, all the venue deals and all those things. Vince obviously created the entire company, but I think what he set up was a system in place with Triple H with the gentleman named Bruce Prischard, where the company could keep going creatively and keep thriving, even if one day Vince obviously knew he would leave the earth at some point, as we all will. I think the best organizations are set up.

So if one person, even the founder leaves, the organization keeps moving. And I think what you saw over the last six months or so was that creative continued to thrive, ratings continue to thrive, relevancy continue to thrive, but all credits of Vince for setting it up that way. What surprised me about Vince. Obviously, smart, driven, passionate. What would surprise me? He can be an introvert in private settings.

He does not dominate a room, especially with people he doesn't know. He's a really good listener. And the rule of thumb with Vince is you can say anything you want, as long as it's said in a respectful way and in private. And if you think about it, those are kind of your rules and my rules. In private conversations that you and I had had about your career, I would not say those in front of a group of other people. Maybe you in front of Anne, other close confidants, but that's your business. So if I had a different point of view, then we'd talk it through in private. So it's all a stylistic thing.

He's also extremely generous and has financially helped. He won't say it. He doesn't like to take credit for that. But has financially helped a lot of people, which not that many people know about. But I've seen that side. It's a very sweet side. Does he still, you know, they used to say. the late great Bill Russell threw up before every game, which is hard to fathom.

But that was the kind of anxiety. He viewed it as a real positive. Like when I stop being nervous, Steph Curry's talked about this. There is an anxiety, even as the best shooter in the world. What's Vince like on WrestleMania night? Definitely not the throw-up guy, but definitely we've got to be laser focused here. So, WrestleMania night going into the show, that's not the night to be cracking Joe. jokes, right? And anybody who wants to do that, if you're going into a quarterback Super Bowl game,

you want to go crack jokes with a quarterback, give him space, let him breathe. If he wants you to come around and say, hey, let's crack some jokes. You come around and crack some jokes. But it's not that sort of anxiety with him. He doesn't operate that way. Yeah. He's such an iconic figure. I wonder if part of what made this whole thing work and continues to work is that Vince still works out, he understands the life, the physicality of the wrestler. When I look at Vince, it's such a Dana White, by the way, similarly. You know, Vince to me, I feel like he's an athlete to this day. Is he? Yes. And look, I think, even think about your own life, from my point of view, you've never been a big drinker. I'm not, maybe when you were 20. Well, last night,

Ann and I went out. That's different. That's different. You're with your wife. You're having a good night. That's different. I'm talking about in business settings or this, that part of why I've never seen you be a big drinker, you got to work the next day. Right. And you've got to have the goods. And in our business, collective business, you got to earn your keep every day. So the, hey, I'm tired.

I can't do it today. Okay, maybe you can have one day like that. But if you have a week like that, you have a month like that, you're going to have a problem. I think it's the same way with the vincers of the world, with the Danas of the world. They've got to go every day. So whatever they need to keep themselves. fresh and clear-headed is what they're going to do. There's never been a moment since I've known the guy, Vince, or Dana, where I've ever

spoken to either one and they're like, ah, just tired. I'm feeling a little down today. Never. It's the same opening of a phone call with each of them. Hey, how you doing? Good. How you doing? You have time to talk business?

Yep. Boom. We talk business. There's never, ah, you know, my kid is going, everyone has their problems. And you know this drill. If you really want to get ahead, you got to understand no one really gives a fuck about other people's problem. We've talked about this before.

Like, oh, calling my flight's delayed. You know, it's another out. Just call me when you land, man. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, we all got problem. Even I shouldn't rush to Twitter and complain about Delta. People do that. All day.

They do it all day. And I get it. They're trying to get Delta's attention. I get it's frustrating. Yeah. When you fly in things delayed, no one gives a fuck. It's sort of like, you know, the middle of the night, if you've ever stub your toe on your bed. Right.

You tell the person the next day, you should see my toe. No one gives a shit. And I don't mean about serious things in life. If a friend's really sick or whatever, of course, you care about that. But when someone's like, oh, I have the flu. Like, okay. Take some therapy. Call me in three days, man.

Like, we got to move here. Vince is that way. Dana's that way. John Sina, Charlotte Flair. Obviously, Brock Lesner. Yes. Who, again, is such a unique physical presence. finally, does how the audience react, not just ratings,

but do you watch how the audience reacts to your wrestlers? Can that elevate or puncture a career? To us, that makes or breaks our performers. So if the audience is into someone, even if us folks in the back of the house haven't seen it, we're going to give that person a push. If we think someone's a big star and the audience, now we'll stick with it for a while.

early on with Roman Reins, it wasn't working the way WWE thought it would work. They stuck with it. They stuck with it. Finally, when he went heel, again, the villain character, it worked like wildfire. And you hear the audience's reaction to him. The head of the table, they acknowledge me, whatever it is that he's saying, they react no matter what. Someone once told me, they said, you know what the opposite of love is? And I said, I don't know, hate.

And they said, no, apathy. They said love and hate are close cousins there. Right, right. So if you love our performers, that works. If you hate our performers, that works. If you don't care about them. And difference is the killer. The killer.

That's the killer. Aaron Rogers. This Jets thing, you know, it felt, I don't know why it did. Like it was just going to happen when free agency and then when he went on McAfee would all just kind of come to fruition. That clearly is not the case. Now, nothing is actually happening. happening right now, right? There's no practice. There's no OTAs. Nothing really happens until after the draft. And really, that feels like the timeline, right? Day one of the draft,

because if they want that 13th pick and if the Jets are hesitant, because both of them feel like they're in a little bit of a staring contest, if you're the Jets, I'm not going to give you that 13th pick till the last hour when, in my opinion, I would capitulate and give you the 13th pick. But that'd probably be it. We'll give you pick 13, maybe some conditional next year, but that's it. And maybe they're trying to give some package of like a two and a two next year or something. But that's where it feels like we might have another 30 days of this before the draft or just kind of sitting here looking at each other.

Is that what if you like you? And I also think, I mean, Green Bay has got their quarterback at practice ready to go. They can stall all they want. They don't need a quarterback. He's in the building. So their takeaway is we want two firsts. We're going to get a tight end and a receiver, two big needs. They can go.

The rest of the draft. after that could mostly be defense. They're going to be stubborn. And, you know, it's like I've been in enough contract negotiations in my career, probably 12, where sometimes I've had a little leverage, sometimes I haven't. But it usually wraps up pretty quickly because we both want it done. I do think, and maybe it's only 10, 15% of it, I think Green Bay is going to say, you have been screwing around with us for three years.

So welcome to you. your party. And so I think a little bit of this, because Green Bay, come on, they say what you want. I mean, I would give up a first for Aaron Rogers. I wouldn't give up much after that. Maybe a conditional third. They can't be that far apart, John. They can't. I mean, nobody thinks he's worth two ones at this point because nobody knows if he's going to play for two years. He just said 90% chance he was going to retire three weeks ago. So that's right. Honestly, that kind of hurts the Packer. in the sense. This whole situation is just kind of a sad ending to a weird situation these last couple of years. Because he had so much individual success win those MVPs.

And those two flameouts are just, I mean, they're pretty historic losses, both at home. The Niners game, I mean, the Niners didn't score an offensive touchdown. And that Tampa game loss, I mean, those are just, it's just been a bizarre way to end a career that, you know, had so much problem. And had high highs, but they were mainly in the regular season. Well, also, not everybody. I mean, you were in the scouting game. You obviously were good at it. You loved it.

Some guys are lifers. You looked at it and thought, probably hard to make money here. I don't like the travel. You know, I'm guessing. I didn't like it. I am more addicted. And so I think I've had more success doing this. What I've been part of as a podcaster comes more naturally to me.

I can control more. I saw the addiction in Howie Roseman. Andy Reid and Brett Feach and I went, I don't know if I love it as much as those guys do. And if I'm going to be in the industry and want to go, I'm going to get capped. And it's hard to do that job if you're not an addict. It really is. It's why Tom, Andy, Balliachachachian, I mean, Sabin, the best are Mark Few, Mick Cronin. I mean, these guys are addicted to the game.

Listen, when I got out of college, John, I got a, I was very fortunate. I got a AAA baseball play-by-play job. So I did sales in an inning of play-by-play. which became two innings and I traveled a little bit. But I thought that's what I wanted to do. And then about year three, I work with, you know, like Ken Korak is the voice of the A's. Yeah. It has been forever.

I know Ken. Yeah, great guy. Yeah. And there were guys like that in the league and guys, you started meeting these guys and you're like, they loved baseball. John Miller. John Miller loved baseball. And I liked baseball.

But I liked football. And so, and we, this circles back to Aaron Rogers. I think he really likes football. But he's not, I don't think he, I don't think he's addicted to it. And so what's happening is all the great young quarterbacks are, you know, they're ascending and they love it. And he likes it. And you see his off-season workouts last year. I just didn't think he played particularly well.

So, you know, it's like in my whole career, I've seen guys, I'm pretty addicted to this job. It's hard to stay at the top of anything. You can do it on some natural talent. But as you age, if you're not addicted, like Aaron, you start eroding really fast. Like I thought Cam liked football. He eroded really fast. Big Ben, his off seasons were legendarily soft, right? Beers and as Jay Glazer said, beers and camping with the kids, right?

So I think you age really fast. in athletics if you're not addicted to it. LeBron's addicted to it. He's aging gracefully. And that's why when you look at the young quarterbacks, like the Mahomes, Josh Allen contract situations, boom, handled. Trevor Lawrence, that thing will be handled quick. Herbert will get Joe Burrell. It'll just be smooth. And this Lamar situation, last week,

my theory is this. These GMs on these teams are getting calls from someone. They don't know and they don't trust. They do behind the scene deals all the time with the Rosenhauses and the Tom Connons. The level of trust. They've been working for decades. You're calling me asking about trades. I don't know you. I'm not going to lose my team's second round draft pick over tampering or something.

And this situation has jumped the shark now. And part of it is on Lamar. And I'm not super pro agent, not anti-Aid. Richard Sherman with the Niners handled his contract himself and it was fine. But in this situation, they got a problem on their hand. Lamar's camp. They need to kind of rein this in. If they want to get out of there, if they want this money, you can't operate trying to get

$150, $200 million with this level of direction because it's not going well. Well, if you, one of the, when I watch the air movie with Michael Jordan, one of the things Michael and his mom were really good at is making these big decisions. David Falk, Phil Knight, Sonny Vicaro, Dean Smith. Michael's mom and Michael were really good, big decision makers. LeBron, by and large, chose Pat Riley and Dee. Wade and Eric Spolstra. Then the Lakers brand has enormously helped his business. But some athletes are gifted.

I'll give you, Carmelo Anthony. So when Carmelo was with the Denver Nuggets, he demanded a trade of the Nix. It actually screwed him. He made it so public that the Knicks were trapped, had to give up a ton to get him. He gets to New York that don't have anything, right? He's the $10 million chandelier in the empty mansion. And so he did, Carmelo didn't surround himself. with good people that should have said,

shh, don't, don't do this. So, Lamar's kind of the classic. He just, he doesn't have the right people around him to give him guidance. By the way,

most people don't. I didn't at 24. Like, like I get it. Michael was so great. The league made sure, probably. You get the right people,

right? There's a lot of greatness there. Or LeBron James, like the NBA made sure. let's steer you to the right to the right people right but I feel like Lamar um all of us need guidance especially at 24 25 I just don't think he has the right people around him well I saw Richard Sherman sat on his podcast on the volume check that one out to Calvin Johnson about these guaranteed contracts and for most players because the guaranteed number kind of hovers between you know

let's just say 40 to 60 million but these quarterbacks even like low ones are 120, 140, 150, you basically play out your entire contract always because the way it works on the cap, they can never cut you. It took Matt Ryan until he's like 38 years old to finally get cut. Carson Wentz, Jared Goff. They have played their entire time on that contract that we said was terrible like four years ago.

So if you just sign the $220 million contract with 145 guaranteed, the likelihood you're going to see 90% of that is really, really high. Just Derek Carr. played out his entire contract on the Raiders until they kind of messed with it last year to kind of do an extension. And then boom, he gets another $80 million. I mean, as a quarterback, you are in the driver's seat. So they're arguing it feels like over kind of nominal stuff in the big picture of what he's ultimately going to make.

Yeah. And again, if he had a really good team of managers around him, he'd get it. You can't ask athletes to be great athletes and like financial wizards. I mean, look, I've negotiated. 12 contracts or been part of 12 negotiations, I have great people around me. I would get taken to the cleaners. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a litigator. So it's like I just, I just feel like, and also, I've said this before, I said it last week. Kawhi Leonard and Lamar have this sort of unorthodox personality. They're not trusting. So Kawhi uses, you know, his dentist,

uncle Dennis, right? Which is, I'm, and then, you know, Lamar used his mom. Well, Now, again, it's not the end of the world, but I think it comes down to both or not trusting. Lamar was overlooked by a lot of people. He watched himself in high school and college be dominant. And yet he falls. He doesn't trust people. Kawhi Leonard was overlooked by a lot of schools, even though, you know, he was dominating guys in early age. And so, you know, they come into the sport. They're kind of unique personalities. They're non-trusting. They take an unorthodox agent stance or route. I've said this before about Kauai. I'd love to have him on my team, San Antonio, Toronto, when the culture's built. You can't build around him. He walks into the facility, I've been told, 345, I'm not playing tonight. You can't operate like that, yeah. So he can't be your one.

And I, you know, listen, I'm rooting for Lamar to sign because he makes the league better. He's a fascinating player. And I think he's a really good guy. But, you know, man, management has an advantage if you don't have any. equally strong management surrounding you. You think there's been a lot of talk, Frank's history with bigger quarterbacks in Carolina. They make the trade, obviously last week, Teppers. I mean, it's his team, but he's going to all these pro days.

He's right by, you know, I heard you say, you know, just kind of a way to get, make sure we're bringing a huge contingency here, see how he handles himself. Clearly, CJ's a pretty high-level guy. You do the same with Bryce. Do you think they already know who they're going to take? Because that's what it feels like they're going to take C.J. Stroud. But, you know, I've been in these meetings. There's still a lot of debate going on, especially when the other guy in Bryce is a really high character guy at the highest level also and has had so much success. So I could see the conversations, you know, running right up for the next three or four weeks up until the draft.

Well, I talked to an NFL GM this week who told me Will Levis has the fewest. There's three or four key traits that you have to have and that Will Levis had the weakest of the four because he was reckless. accuracy issues. This GM said of the top four quarterbacks, he has the fewest traits you really want. So take Will Levis out. So it comes down to the final three. I think the size, fair or not, is something as a number one pick. I mean, Kyler was a little small.

He didn't want to get hit anymore. Baker was a little small. Mansell was a little small. Two was a little small. We've got a history here. You take a small guy up top. the hits land differently. So I think there are concerns about Bryce Young.

I think they wanted to see C.J. Stroud. They wanted to meet him and look him in the eye. And they think that C.J. Stroud has some of Bryce Young's accuracy and experience. And they kind of just wanted to see what's he like as a kid. Because I think they look at C.J. Stroud and say, well, big school with NFL receivers. really good coach. You get hard coached, very accurate, very composed, doesn't make a lot of mistakes. CJ didn't have a lot of big interception games.

I think he had one or two bad games in bad weather in the Big Ten. So my guess would be they wanted to go CJ and say, hey, does he have enough of the Bryce Young kind of cool confidence composure? And if he does, we get three and a half more inches and 20 more pounds. Because if you look at their college stats, there are some. similarity is an accuracy of delivering the football. And remember, Frank Reich's history, he's a polisher. He takes guys that can be a little wild Anthony Richardson.

Yeah. And polishes them up. But I don't think Anthony Richardson, like, he doesn't feel like a one year. I mean, he could be a two-year build. And I don't think Frank wants to wait two years to have a guy ready to play at a high level. Yeah, I think the outlier in Joshie Allen is really. really kind of skewed everything. Most of these guys tend to be in the history of the game more Malik Willis than Josh Allen.

I went to a spring training game yesterday, and it was the Dodgers against the Royals. And it's Dustin May, the Dodgers, you know, the big redhead kid who throws 98, 6-5. Yes. And then, well, he's on the probably the 18th hole of his career. This guy's made $350 million. It was Zach Granky, who's a small player. And it kind of hit me like everyone's banking on May to have this long career, make all this money. but it's just potential size.

He got rocked in the game. And then you see Granky, when I Googled, $350 million in his career was incredible for a large percentage of it. And small guys, if they are special, can dominate. Now, their floor, like, you know, if Bryce Young's going to hit, he's going to be really good. But it's much harder for him just to be. And this is where I think people talk themselves out of it. If it doesn't go perfect, how does he just be like Jared Gough or Alex Smith? because there aren't just usually the small guy isn't just solid.

Look at Kyler. He was either going to be really good or he's going to stink. There's not just like slow and steady. So that's where I think the debate on Bryce is legitimate. But if you do believe he's going to be special, and there's only a small percentage of those guys. Doesn't even, just because you were special in college does not translate to the pros. You know, we have a long history of guys that are great in college that can't play in the NFL.

I tend to think he's going to be an incredible player just because I heard Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah talking about this. that we talk a lot about small guys getting injured. Most quarterbacks in recent memory that get hit, get hurt. You know, I mean, Trey Lance is big. Jimmy Garoppolo's bigger. That you get hit, you get hurt with the size of these defensive linemen and linebackers coming into the game.

So it's more about just protecting your quarterback. Herbert broke some ribs last year. Well, Stafford's falling apart. He's 34 years old. So Russell's breaking down. He's had knee surgery. He's what, Russell was 33, 33. 34 years old.

So, you know, I would take Bryce Young, but I do understand the argument on the other side of the ledger on the small thing. Though, if you hit with a small, this guy can be. From the character stuff, you know, Kyler was questioned coming out by the people internally. No question. Bryce's character, just like CJs, is really, I think these guys are very, very well-liked from a character, teammate, football intelligence standpoint. Well, and also, Bryce was a rock star at high school at 15 in L.A.

And then he goes to Alabama and he's a rock star right out of the shoot. So like he's been on the spotlight forever. So I feel like C.J. Strauss personalities a little more at least, I've heard he's a great, has great leadership qualities. But I feel like Bryce Young is a number one pick would be unaffected completely. Yeah. He was the best high school. I mean, he was, I can remember talking to somebody when he was a sophomore on the USC staff. and they're like, oh, yeah, ball comes out different.

Then he goes to, you know, his just sort of spatial awareness, pocket awareness, it's way beyond. I talk to Frank Reich. I can't give away too much we talked about. But he asked me about some quarterback stuff. And I said, listen, I saw a lot of Bryson high school, what a tape. And I'm like, coach, he just sees the field different. Like his head is just all over the field.

Whereas C.J. Stroud, Lance Zerline, his dad works in the NFL. Lance does a good job for NFL.com. He said C.J. Stroud is Jared Gough. And by the way, that's not terrible. No. Not a lot of games. And he's more athletic than Jared, too. The East is going to entirely come down to matchups and who plays who in any of those teams has a chance.

Should they catch the right matchup? You're right, though. The Western Conference is so much more wide open. Denver's starting to get it together a little bit, but I still fund I still fundamentally don't like some of their core basketball identity things with the fact that they don't have a great defensive front court. We talked about an hour last show about how in NBA history you just need to have at that four or five position, all-time great defensive players to have a fighting chance and they just don't. And Jamal Murray runs hot and cold, which is concerning.

And I think that knee kind of continues to flare up for him from time to time. Sacramento is actually tailing off and their defense is getting worse and worse as time goes along. Memphis, again, they're getting it together, but without Brandon Clark, it's a depth issue, and I still don't trust their half-court offense. And then again, it really just, everything points me back to the Warriors and the Lakers. And I keep coming back to two things for each team. For the Warriors, can they win without Andrew Wiggins? And for the Lakers-

I don't think they can. I just don't think they can. You know, what's interesting is with the Wiggins piece in particular, like, and it's almost a testament to how great that core is that they've managed. to win as much as they have. But they're coming back from major deficits in all of these games. Like, they beat the Pelicans.

They were down 20. They beat the Sixers. They were down 11 in the fourth quarter. They came back and almost beat the Timberwolves. They were down nine early in the fourth quarter in that game. You know, even that Bucks game, like they were down eight with two minutes left. Like Steph and Clay and Draymond and Steve Kerr,

they're just grinding out wins. And it's crazy because when you're looking from the standpoint point of the standings, they're like, they're actually in good position to potentially get the five seat, especially with the clippers remaining schedule. They might end up getting the five seat. And I actually like that matchup with Phoenix because Phoenix is such a bad perimeter defense team. But the thing is, is when they get to those higher level, high pressure situations and late rounds of the playoffs, you just need Andrew Wiggins. You do. One of the most underrated parts of their playoff run last year was the job he did on Luca Donchich and the job that he did on

Jason Tatum and taking him out of that equation. and makes everything so much more difficult for them. And I want to so bad believe in what they can do. But here's the thing. If Wiggins isn't coming back, I just don't think they can do it. Well, and also, Jason, is Wiggins in shape? No. So I was told he wasn't going to play for the regular season.

Nobody knew about the playoffs. And nobody knew at the time I reported it. Nobody knew if they were going to make the playoffs, right? So let's say he comes back and is not in shape. This is the NBA. It's hard enough in November to enter the season, not in shape. You can't play yourself into shape in the playoffs. And he's their best on-ball defender, high IQ, super twitchy.

I mean, Jason, they have no front-court scoring. None. So, I mean, Weissman, they moved off him eventually because, you know, he just didn't fit the time. Everything with them, I've been told, Kerr's feeling is, as long as, as Steph is great, they're going to do whatever it takes for Steph to have a chance to win a title. The organization I've been told, Steve feels, we owe Steph just as many titles as we can give him. So they're going to make moves and bail on young guys. Now, the good thing about Wiggins out is Cumminga has gotten more of a chance.

But he's so raw. He's so inconsistent. I mean, that's the difference between talent and wisdom. Jordan Poole's good, but has bad nights. You kind of know what you get from Steph. Cuminga, again, crazy twitchy, but there are nights. You get 16 minutes and six points, and he's just not there. So I think in the building, they know they can't win without Wiggins. I've been told they know that it just doesn't work. Yeah, with the Kumiga thing, it's funny. I always joke like, as a young basketball player,

every time you have a good game, you kind of look back and you think about what caused you to have a good game, and you kind of commit that to memory. And every time you have a bad game, you kind of think about what caused you to have a bad game, you know, this specific process thing that you did poorly or, or this specific thing with your form that got out of whack. And over the years, as you become a more experienced player, that's what causes you to become more consistent as you learn how to avoid the things that lead to bad games and you learn how to replicate the things that lead to good games. And that's the thing. Kaminga's actually done a lot of Wiggins-esque stuff. He's done some isolation scoring at the end

of shot clocks. He's done a really good on ball defense. Like he did a pretty damn good job on Luca the other night when he was guarding him. And then he's working really well in the warrior system cutting and in finding ways to be impactful offensively. But the problem is, is then he'll have a night where he goes one for seven and gets a loss a little bit off the ball. So that's the inconsistency piece. The sons are undefeated with Kevin Durant in the lineup. Chris Paul, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, and DeAndre have played 154 possessions together and they are outscoring teams by 30 points per 100 possessions. And they're, amazing on both ends of the floor. Are you buying Phoenix? I'm a little bit worried about them

being thin and it's easy to push them around a little bit. And then their perimeter defense is a legitimate concern from a matchup standpoint. But whatever I'm saying, the scoreboard says they're kicking everyone's ass. So where are you at with Phoenix right now? Their bench scoring is 10th. So they have Warren, Craig, T. Ross. It's okay. It's not dynamic. But you know this. Go to the finals last year. Seven guys for the Warriors and seven guys for the Celtics got big minutes. You shrink that thing fast. I think the concern, Chris Mannix was on my show today, and I think he's right. My concern is they have a lot of elements I like, an experienced coach, two dynamic scores, semi-decent length and rim protection. The issue is Chris Paul. Like, there have been nights like he's not

close. And this happens to NFL wide receivers. They hit 34 and it's like, who's that? He can't separate. Like, that's a position where you fall off a cliff fat. There's gradual for a left tackle. You know, Andrew Whitworth for the Rams. It's very slight, very gradual. Receivers fall off cliffs. Chris, like, if you went into a series and you took a 1-0 lead, there's an argument to be made. You could rest him in game two for game three. Like, you almost get to a point where, you don't, you almost get to a point where you lead a series 3-1, you just rest him. So, and by the way, this is, I mean, I can remember great players Barclay at the end. It just wasn't the same.

He needed an extra day's rest. So the question is, they can win a series like that. Can they win three? Probably not. Because, but everybody's got a little bit of this. Robert Williams for the Celtics. Huge concern, right? In terms of health.

K.D. and Chris Paul. Big concern. Kauai and Paul George. I mean, Denver is one of the few teams. We don't really worry about that. Their guys are going to play. But most of your, yeah, I mean, most of your good teams in the league. I mean, I'm one of those, you know, Embed is always a finger crosser to me.

Like, I've seen it. The way he plays fast and hard and Anthony Davis, right? So I like most teams in this league have a guy that is a health or age liability. And I think that's the Phoenix issue. I think the bench is good enough. Yeah, you know, Chris Paul has actually become a target. I remember I was watching a game like a week and a half ago or so where I was watching Joe Ingalls just barbecue.

Like, he couldn't keep Joe Ingalls in front. And then I was like, uh-oh. Like, this is this is a problem. And that is going to be the big question mark. I think this off season is whether or not they're better off trying to use Chris Paul's salary as a vehicle with which to bring back some higher level role players for a team that needs more, you know, kind of like an adult in the room, ball handler. So I'll be interested to see what they do there. The one other major

concern I have with Phoenix is they do not generate rim pressure. All three of their guys, Chris Paul, Devin, Booker, and Kevin Durant are driving to pull up. So when they come over those ball screens, they're constantly getting that 10, 15 foot area and they're trying to pull up. And the inability to have a guy on the roster who's relentlessly attacking the rim, which collapses the defense and creates close out opportunities for your teammates. That's the one thing that kind of concerns me because when you're a heavily, let's just put it this way. the sons were already the team that took the second most pull-up jump shots in the entire league off the dribble jump shots. That was before Kevin Durant came. And Kevin Durant is the most

prolific pull-up jump shooter in the league. So the thing is, is if their pull-up jump shots don't fall, do they have a second punch? And that'll be the one that if they do lose, I think that's how it'll happen. It'll be all their pull-up jump shooting going cold, probably in a physical matchup where guys like Devin Booker and Kevin Durant get fatigued by constantly having to fight for every inch of position and them not getting enough lift on those shots and not knocking them down. Before we move on, I wanted to ask you, did you see that quote from Charles Barkley directed towards KD? Or he said, he is sensitive. It's weird. I said to you for three or four years now, I'm not sure why he reacted to it again. I don't care where it goes. He's a great,

great player. I think he's a good guy too. He's sensitive and I'm not worried about it. Did you, did you see that altercation between those two guys? Yeah, I've always thought, you know, I've got kids. So some people are just more sensitive. Like when I was in my 20s, like I just didn't get it. I was kind of a relentless full steam ahead. Then you have kids and you realize, I got six, two biological four steps.

Some kids are more sensitive. You know, Aaron Rogers is really sensitive to criticism. Kyler Murray and his people are. Kevin Durant is. It's okay. He's in touch with who he is. I have a soft spot for Kevin Durant. I think he's, I think he is

the only player in the league. centers out. If you had a one-on-one tournament in the history of the league, I think Durant's the only person that would beat LeBron and Michael Jordan. I think he's just, I think he can put it on the deck. You know, take centers out. I don't want to see Kareem against Ray Allen or something. He's insane. But if you're talking like, you know, Dirk Novitsky, Durant, Janus, or the high end, I think Kevin's one of the greatest scores. He's also a willing defender. I think he's really smart. But he's a different cat, you know, his upbringing. He's just different. And it's like, I'm going to accept that. Everybody comes from different backgrounds. And Barclays, you know, listen, I think about this all the time. If I was a pro basketball player and literally one of the greatest players ever was ripping me on television and all my friends are DMing me like Adam Silver said a year ago, he goes, my players are miserable. So I'm old. I don't care, right? And I don't sit on the internet.

But I didn't generationally, Jason, grow up with a phone. I'm not on it all the time. I mean, Friday, when I leave work till Sunday, I'm not even on my phone. I got my staff said, I'm not even close to it. Kevin grew up and you did in the iPhone generation. It's a magnet. My kids' eyes are on it all the time. And he gets a little beat up by it.

So I'm sympathetic. He is sensitive. But I'm going to embrace that. I would love to see him when in Phoenix. I really would love it. I think it would be, it would validate a lot of, because listen, we both knew this. When he left Golden State,

it was a really bad career decision. I've compared it to Mahalm saying, I've got a buddy, I'm going to go to the Jets. No, don't do that. Don't. It was the same thing. But in basketball, we tend to give the star a little bit more of a mobility edge, the shoe sales. It's more of an individual game. There's not the team construct.

LeBron leaves. Of course he does. Mahomes leaves. You're like, why? So I find myself, I'm not supposed to root, but I find myself sort of rooting for Kevin to succeed. I'm rooting for him too. I think it's such low-hanging fruit to be like he only won with Steph, therefore he's not a real champion. Like to me, Kevin Durant's always been a phenomenal basketball player who just got partnered with two extremely volatile point guards. Russell Westbrook on the floor, Kyrie Irving. off the floor, that ended up being kind of what submarinesed a lot of his success. Great point. Yeah, and I am rooting for him to have

that legitimizing title, just like I rooted for it with Steph in last year's playoff run because a lot of people undercut some of his success because of Kevin Durant, which I thought was ridiculous. You know, Katie went after the whole concept of these older players being disrespectful. And you know what's so interesting to me

about that, Colin, is like usually there's a camaraderie with the players. Like, our job by virtue of our need to be authentic, demands that we criticize. That is part of what we have to do. But what's interesting is players in the league are typically pretty tight-knit with criticism. For instance, Russell Westbrook was objectively awful with the Lakers for a year and a half.

You couldn't find a player in the league who would throw him under the bus. Every time someone would interview them and they'd be like, what do you think about Russ with the Lakers? Oh, Russ is a former MVP. He's in Hall of Famer. Love that guy. I'm rooting for him. He's like, no one would criticize because like there's this tight-knit like respect among

the players. where generally speaking, they speak positively of each other in a way that the media has a little bit more free reign to be critical. That's what's so weird with this older generation. And I'm so glad Kevin Durant's going at it. It is bizarre. The sheer amount of these older players that are being outwardly disrespectful of these players. They do not feel the same level of obligation to kind of keep that tight-knit like kind of mutual respect. And I do find that super interesting. Do you buy Kevin Durant, when he says that he doesn't care about legacy anymore? No, no, he cares.

Everybody cares. I mean, I, you know, legacy is a lot of vanity, but, and I don't spend a lot of time on it, but I don't want to end my career poorly, right? I want to end it having some control, you know, being part of the volume when a network kicks me off the air because my hair is even grayer than this. So I think, I think everybody, you know, as you age, you just, you think about that stuff. And, you know, Brady at the end, wanted to. to have more control, wanted to end it.

So he picked a team with a bunch of good receivers and an offensive coach. I mean, he knew what he was doing. He, he, Tom Brady figured out, listen, I can't carry the load anymore. I'm going to go to a team with a bunch of really good receivers in Tampa, really good tight ends, bring Antonio Brown and Gronk. And I'm not going to have to lift as much. Like Matt Stafford got old. Oh, I got McVeigh as a coach.

Oh, I've got Cooper Cup. Oh, I've got like, I think, you know, as you age, you still have it. You just don't have it 48 minutes a game as an NBA player or 17 games, relentless as a quarterback. So I think Kevin is aware of his legacy. And his legacy is going to be a better version of Dirk Novitsky. I mean, to me, he's going to be a more well-rounded version of Dirk Novitsky, a more lethal version with more titles. And that's a pretty good spot. Dirk's an all-timer.

He's going to be a better version of that. Sort of like Michael's a better version of Kobe. It's a pretty good space to be. That's an all-timer. Yeah, you know, I buy him to a certain extent. Like, I do think he cares about legacy at least a little bit. But I do believe him that he, I think he's just, the way I would describe it is similar to what we go through as members of the media.

You obviously with a million, a ton more experience. But you know how like, I'm not sure what it was like for you when you first got into the business because I know there wasn't social media. But like, obviously, I came in right with the Twitter trolls and the relentless. social media harassment. So I've got lots of people that would DM me and talk shit and say all these awful things. And what's funny is like it pretty quickly within about a year, I realize like, oh, like there's a significant segment that you will never satisfy. Like you're just, they're going to hate you no matter what you say and you can never win. So just focus on doing

your job and look at the results. There's way more people who support you than don't. And I think Kevin Durand has kind of come to a similar realization. I think he realized. I think he realized, now. There is a segment of people that no matter what he does, no matter where he wins, no matter how much he succeeds on the basketball court, they'll call him a cupcake, and they'll say that he doesn't defend, and they'll say that he jumped on Steph's bandwagon. I think Kevin Durant has just come to terms with the fact that he's never going to be able to satisfy everybody. And I think that he's, I really do believe that he has come to the other side of things where he's like, I'm just going to play the best I can, and I'm going to win as much as I can.

and whatever happens in terms of the legacy is clearly outside of my control. So I'm at peace with that. I do think he cares about his legacy, but I think he's at peace with the fact that he can't control it. Yeah, and I think, I mean, the most criticized player in the NBA is LeBron James. I mean, I always said this about Barack Obama. You didn't have to agree with his policies. You can't get worked up because once he wore a beige suit. He's a beautiful family, smart guy.

If that really ruins your day, fuck out of here. You're just a miserable person. Like, that's just not good enough, right? You don't have to like his policies. But he wasn't weaponizing social media. So, you know, they're durst. I think, I always figure like, you know, like we forgot about Joe Montana very quickly. And, I mean, it went from, you know, Montana was the goat.

Brady beats Atlanta. We've never talked Joe Montana since. It went like, Brady to Mohawk. And Joe Montana is out there. Hey, I got four. Right? But I think Joe Montana is so happy in his personal life. If you ever see him around his wife, they're like teenagers, cuddly, kissy.

I mean, they're this cutest couple. And I think the happier you are in your personal life, none of that stuff matters. Joe knows who he is. I mean, we literally went from Brady. We talked Rogers, Mahomes. It is like Joe Montana never played. It's insane. And I think as Kevin ages, I think young people tend to think they've got it made.

They're not married, no kids. They're happy in their 20th. Research shows you get happier as you age because there's less societal pressure. You kind of prune your tree. You don't really care who cares about you. I think as Kevin is aged, this is very human. He's more comfortable with who he is. And it's been clearly defined who he is.

he is you know i would say this he's one of the 10 best basketball players i've ever seen and i've i've been watching since wilt in 1972 73 he's one of the 10 best basketball players on his good nights i've ever seen injuries have not helped him in the last four or five years he is brittle now so it's it's it's hard to put him in that top five or six he's probably i would say top 12 um but he is really he's kind of a one-on-one i mean he's he's he's unique i mean mark few coached Gonzaga. He coached on those Olympic teams. And I think I've told this story.

I was talking to him one time about what it's like. And I said, anybody surprised you. He said, even among great players, Kevin Durant's ridiculous. Like, even among all the great players, they've got to work to get their shot. Durant just gets a great shot. Not a good one. A great one against our greatest players every time down the floor. He's like, Colin, I've seen a lot of basketball.

there's just nothing like Kevin Durant. Yeah, putting him all-time, all-time lists get so convoluted by centers because they're just, they play. I take him out almost. Me too. I keep a completely separate list. It's like,

just here's all the best perimeter players of all time. And I think Kevin Durant is clearly one of the 10 best perimeter players of all time. How do you even compare him to someone like Will? It's a completely different sport. I think you make an interesting point, though. It's really this simple. Have you become secure in who you are

and what you've accomplished, then you're never going to allow some stranger to convince you you're something less than that. And again, I do believe that Kevin Durant in a previous version of himself, you know, five, seven years ago, I think he did buy into that stuff a little too much and he let the noise get to him a little bit. But I do believe him that he's made a little bit of a transition into a new phase where he's more kind of at peace with the fact that he can't control that stuff. So I want to talk about the Lakers for a minute because, Colin, I'm going to be honest with you. every time I watch them, especially with LeBron, with him being back, I am so tempted to pick them to come out of the West.

They are four and one when LeBron is played post-deadline. That one loss was a loss to the Bulls that they immediately avenged and kind of kicked the shit out of them. And in that game, Anthony Davis had a weird game. He only took eight shots. It was just a weird loss for the Lakers on Sunday. They are outscoring teams with LeBron on the floor by 20. points per 100 possessions since the deadline.

That is the same type of number that I was giving you with the Warriors in their top five starting lineup metric. Now, again, a small sample size, but they've been dominant. Here's a crazy staff for you. The Lakers starters against the Bulls. By the way, the Bulls came into that game as the fifth best defense in the league. They are an amazing perimeter defense. They contain the basketball better than just about any team in the league.

The Lakers, starters, scored at a rate of 155 points per 100 possessions against that Bulls unit with that starting lineup. The combination of amazing offball offensive skill with guys like Austin Reeves and DeAngelo Russell. And then LeBron James and Anthony Davis just being two of the biggest walking mismatches in the league. How awesome is that that it's like, oh, our guards are struggling with the Bulls ball pressure. We'll just have Anthony Davis bring the ball up the floor because Vucevic can't guard him. And then we'll post up LeBron James on Alex Caruso and get fantastic shots every single time. I think they're going to get mismatches like that. in every single series in this playoff run, should they stay healthy?

So I, again, I, there's two things that concern me. LeBron's health. Anthony Davis's inconsistency in health because he is the kind of guy that'll take eight shots one night against the Bulls, even though he's being guarded by like Derek Jones Jr. And then take 20 shots and score 38 against the same team the next night. That's definitely a wild card. But I do think when they're clicking on all cylinders, I think they have a higher two-way

ceiling than any of these teams in the Western Conference. Am I too high on them or do you agree? Well, there's one thing they do exceedingly well. And this is where they're the opposite of Phoenix. They're going to get a lot of free throws. Anthony Davis attacks the basket. LeBron attacks the basket usually. Austin Reeves attacks the basket. So they're the opposite of Phoenix. Phoenix is always bitching about free throw opportunities. Lakers are going to get to the line. Everybody's going to say, it's rigged. No, this is what they do. They don't pull up. Reeves is a condo. He's a condo He's always eliciting contact. You know, again, the other night, I mean, Anthony Davis shot one three.

He gets the line. But LeBron puts his mind to it. He does. So they're going to get a lot of free throws. The downside is that's a lot of contact. Anthony Davis hits the floor. So I kind of know what I see. They're going to get people in a foul trouble.

Darvindham is an excellent defensive coach. The minute Westbrook left, he got. buy-in from the role players and their defensive efficiency went through the roof. So they play real defense. They have a defensive coach. Vogel was a pretty good defensive coach. Defensive coach, they have guys that attacked the basket. They're going to get free throws, meaning they're going to be fairly consistent on offense.

What I see is the liability, and I don't believe role players win titles. Malik Beasley, where did he go? Rui can play 12 minutes and give you one shot and no points. I mean, he's just, that's why he moves. their bench at times is just not there. Now, they tend to be guys that will commit on the defensive end, but I think you're going to get a very consistent effort. They'll play good defense.

They'll get to the free throw line. They're going to be in games. Absolutely going to be in games. Whereas you watch, you know, there are teams like, if Phoenix doesn't hit shots, they don't get to the line as much. They're going to get blown out. By the way, The Warriors don't get much front core scoring.

They settle on jumpers. They're going to have knights. They don't get to the free throw line. So anytime the Lakers actually have the worst style considering they have injured players, they're constantly in contact. Their players create it. So the good news is they're going to get to the free throw line. And if you do that, you force other teams to make substitutions.

You get them out of their game because of foul trouble. So I think the Lakers will be a really consistent team. and you just cross your fingers on health. Reeves, you know, when it first started, I thought, is he Jeremy Lynn, a limited player who's getting minutes because they just, because Carmelo's out, Jeremy Lynn's it, they just need his energy, right? And I thought, okay, LeBron, they just need his energy. But he really is an excellent passer, gets the free throw line.

He's a willing, I always say, is he a willing defender? Westbrook's a terrible defender. Kyrie's a terrible. Luke is a terrible defender. Reeves is going to stick. He's a real player. He's a starting NBA player. Volume.

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