The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Pt.1 Ryen Russillo on Zion Criticism, Rodgers IG Drama and Favre Parallels

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

Colin explains how "The Netflix Effect" is killing NBA ratings, how the physical style of the 80's and 90's NBA was good for the league, and what Aaron Rodgers most recent cryptic Instagram post says about its author (3:00).Then, Ryen Russillo - Host of the Ryen Russillo Podcast - joins Colin for the first part of a two part interview. They discuss the growing negative narrative surrounding Zion Williamson (13:00), why All-Star Games are Nikola Jokic's kryptonite (20:00), if Colin would be a good NBA GM (24:00), what's behind the Aaron Rodgers Instagram drama (32:00), if the constant distractions decrease his trade value (35:00), and if Green Bay's ownership void has caused Aaron Rodgers to become like Brett Favre (40:00).Make sure you follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Colin Coward podcast presented by the Fandul Sportsbook. Hi, everybody, and welcome in to the Wednesday morning podcast. My buddy Ryan Rosillo, I don't know if he's ever been on my podcast. I've been on his, and apparently he told me set records. It was like a Guinness Book of World Record podcast numbers. So it's time for him to return the favor and set some sort of land speed record for the Colin Coward podcast. And I'm excited. A couple of things I want to address.

Sometimes there's something going on in my industry. And this podcast is really perfect for me to explain it or let you kind of behind the curtain. there's something going on called the Netflix effect. So we all have favorite sports. I'm more of a football guy than a baseball guy. I've been to spring training a half dozen times. It's awesome. I do love October baseball, especially when you get the big name teams.

That Cubs World Series, Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants. It's fun. And I grew up like a lot of you in the 70s. It was my favorite sport. But, you know, time has changed. Football's got more activity, better on television. blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. But when anybody says, you know, these NBA ratings are down,

here's the important distinction. Hockey, baseball, MLS, NBA ratings are all down over the last five years Monday through Friday. And it's called the Netflix effect. Networks and leagues put their best games on Saturday and Sunday, right? here's where the ratings aren't going down. NFL, major college football games on Saturday, UFC fights on the weekend. Anything that's big and heavily promoted, NASCAR, WNBA, anything that is heavily promoted and put on the weekends is doing just fine. What the American viewer has been doing over the last five years is tuning out Monday through Friday

leagues for Netflix or Hulu or Amazon Prime. But sports on the weekends when it's heavily promoted and it features the biggest brands and the biggest star quarterbacks, that still does exceedingly well. So when people, you know, pick on the NBA, the ratings actually are up from last year, I think about 6%. You know, you're telling on yourself, you don't like the NBA. And that's okay. I'm an NFL guy, a college football guy, an NBA guy.

I like my UFC fights. I love the World Cup. I still really do like the baseball playoffs if the right teams are in. But, you know, if somebody picks on any league, the weekend stuff is still crushing in sports. In fact, it's about the only thing we watch on television today, on broadcast TV and cable. News, politics, and sports if it's live. It's called the Netflix effect. and it's affecting Monday through Friday viewing with all professional leagues in America.

I did enjoy the 75th anniversary weekend for the NBA. People do often romanticize the past in the NBA. I think the league has never been more skilled than it is now. You're not allowed to have two people on the floor that can't shoot. Sometimes having one that can't shoot is a liability. But there was a couple of things back in the evening. 80s and 90s that did help competition. Number one, there wasn't as much money, and players were really fighting for a piece of the pie. Everybody's rich now. That creates some day-to-day apathy,

right? There's no question. When Michael was beating Isaiah or a Carl Malone or a Barclay, you were fighting for a smaller piece of the revenue pie, so the intensity was palpable. The second thing is, the league was much more physical. They allowed hand-checking. And putting forearms on people. Well, what does that do? It creates animosity. It's one thing now to beat you 127 to 120. It's another thing to beat you 88 to 80 when I've bloodied your nose and pushed you around for three hours. Physical sports, UFC, NFL, hockey, create more animosity. And animosity is good. It creates occasional skirmishes. You want to avoid a malice in the palace. You want to avoid the Joanne Howard situation over the weekend. But that is the one thing

I will say about the NBA. Less money, more guys fighting for their share of the pie, and the physicality created real animosities. Guys hated each other because they were often tackling each other on a basketball hard floor. So I put this story third because I don't want to feel desperate. I do have to talk about the Aaron Rogers' Instagram rambling. Listen, after the Super Bowl, there's about a three-week period before we get to NFL free agency. It is a very dry period. Now, the Super Bowl used to be the first week of February. Now it's the second, which actually shaves a week of despair off for talk show hosts, radio or TV. But there's no question if Aaron Rogers dropped this in the middle of the regular season

on a Monday or a Tuesday, it wouldn't get nearly as much play as it does now. We need content. But I do think it's interesting with Aaron. Aaron increasingly to me has become high IQ, low EQ guy, emotional quotient. Never married, no kids, short relationships nearing 40. Bill Simmons and I had talked about this. You get a little weird. You know, it's a little Bill Maher.

It's a little Keith Oberman. never married, no kids, not sure if you have pets, not necessarily steady relationships. You kind of do what you want to do. I mean, Aaron Rogers goes for a 12-day cleanse. If I called my wife and say, hey, I'm going to leave the kids and all the animals in the house to you for 12 days. I'm going to go cleanse. Yeah, she'd say, go cleanse at your nearest attorney's office.

It's a different life for Aaron Rogers than a Brady or a Peyton Manning. And when I read that IG post, I kind of laughed. I thought it almost read like something. something from the onion. The idea of Peyton Manning or Drew Brees or Tom Brady with big families dropping that, the 12-day cleanse, it just, it's really hard to relate to. And I've always taken incredible pride at both ESPN and Fox and at IHeart Radio to be self-contained as a host. I don't need management. I really don't. I couldn't tell you the last time I met with Fox management. I told them when I came over, I said, you know, I don't really need a boss.

If you're mad at me once a year, come yell at me. But the show, I know how to do a show. I've been doing it for 20 years. And I take great pride in that. And because of that, I have very little patience for high maintenance people. Because I've always taken great pride in being resilient and low maintenance. When I look at Aaron Rogers and this constant drama and this need to publicize things and manipulate things, I just think he would wear me out. I think as a coach, he would wear me out.

I think as a general manager, he could wear me out. And that's why I don't necessarily feel the way that many do about Aaron. I would not give up five first round picks for Aaron Rogers. There is no proof that Aaron Rogers plays his best football in the postseason. There's proof Brady does. There's proof Matt Stafford in fourth quarters plays his best football. There is no proof in the playoffs, even at home, as a favorite, that Aaron Rogers plays his best football in those games. I would actually, because I do think Russell Wilson adds a leadership dimension,

and a mobility dimension that Aaron doesn't offer, I would give up more for Russell Wilson. I also think he's closer to his prime. I think he's still in it. So I just, I kind of look at the Aaron Rogers IG, and I think you just have to bake in a lot of things. We talk about Tom Brady's age. How much would you give up for Tom Brady, a first round pick?

I probably wouldn't give up much more due to his age because of his recklessness. How much would you give up for Carson Wentz? Now, we know you'd give up almost everything for Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, or Patrick Mahomes. But I look at right now with Aaron Rogers, between the drama and the maintenance and his postseason struggles, I don't think he's a four, five, six first second round pick guy anymore. I think if I was Denver, I would really like to have him and I'd give up a couple of number ones. But that's about it. I think there are some emotional quotient issues with Aaron.

that he can be very taxing on a staff, very taxing on the front office. And I think you have to bake that in. I mean, listen, if we're going to discount Jimmy Garoppolo, who's been to more Super Bowls than Aaron Rogers has in the last three years, if we're going to discount him because of injuries or wence because of recklessness, despite having 27 TDs and seven picks with a bad receiving core, I think you have to take some points off Aaron's value based on. this constant drama, walking on eggshells and neediness that is really part of a nearly 40-year-old guy who remained single.

All right. My buddy Ryan Rosillo, I bring him on the herd all the time. I'd never yet bring him on a podcast because mostly because he's busy as shit. I don't want to bother him. But he's great. He's got great access. So how's this for breaking news, Rosillo? So this just came down.

I want you to react to it. Your instant reaction. It's not. Wow. I'm not even ready. I know. I know. This is going to be amazing. Okay. So J.J. Reddick went on this morning and talked about Zion and said, like, hey, man, he's a disengaged teammate.

Well, he'd know, right? Like, that's access. That's why you pay guys. So Scott Kushner, who covers the Pelicans, comes out on Twitter and says, J.J. Reddick's a Duke guy, a CAA guy. And somebody with a grudge against David Griffin. Here's what it's interesting. He goes, for him to light up Zion as a bad teammate and not invested in the franchise. or his career is the most damning condemnation I can think of short of a current teammate doing it, to which I would say, yeah, that's why you pay him to be an analyst because most athletes or analysts won't use that access. I thought when JJ said it today, I didn't watch it live, but I thought, shit, that is powerful. And I'm a Zion guy. I thought he was so joyful and fun. But I'm going to support JJ Redick on this. Like, that's why you pay, you and I have complained privately. You

pay guys big money, they never give you anything. And they have access you and I sometimes can't get, right? Yeah, this is one that I, you know, look, I know you're a subscriber to the Rosillo podcast, but I've been on this since last summer. My information had been that Zion was a pretty detached guy from the team. I mean, I was joking the other day. Before the All-Star break, there was one story that said he'll be good to go in two weeks. The same day, there was another story that said, need second surgery, maybe out for the season.

So I'm like, okay. And as you know, there's a difference with you when I say, hey, I'm just talking out loud. I'm thinking out loud. Like, what about this? Here's how I feel about this. And then there are other times I'll say, you know, the read I get on this. So I've done like three Zion videos. And I'm with you, Colin.

I love him as a player. I loved his joy, his only season at Duke. Remember, he turns his ankle, the weird sneaker thing. And then people are like, why would you go back and play? Like these people that just hate college athletics and maybe hate sports in general, but are just on TV talking about it, which is an entirely different subject. But Zion's like, look, I want to beat North Carolina. I want to maybe win a national championship.

Go to Final Four. Like, that's why I came here. Let's go ahead and do that. I'm like, good for him. He actually just wants to play. So we have now, in a very short amount of time, seen a completely different version of him. And based on what JJ says, who knows it better than I do, because he's connected to it. But also backing up, everything that I had heard is that this is becoming untenable.

And it's not as big of a story because Zion, luckily for him, has drafted behind all the attention on Hardin and on Simmons and on the Kyrie stuff. So now that we're starting to learn more about the Zion deal and that JJ would go on first take and light him up and then CJ McCollum, who is really smart, as you know. And when he said that to Kenny Smith, like, hey, I didn't even talk to this guy yet. He didn't hold back. He wanted us to know that. Yes.

So this is a very disappointing story not only based on Zion's commitment to being a pro-athlet, but also how detached he's been from the team. And that's where I think this is all starting to build up to something that could get a lot more dramatic. College basketball championship season is approaching and there's no better place to get in on the action than the Fandual Sportsbook. It's where I bet.

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embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast,

The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

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Walk a mile in my shoes. We've all felt left out. And for some, that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn how at belonging begins with us.org. brought to you by the ad council All right, I'm going to throw another thing at you, Rosillo, because I respect your knowledge, your insights, and acumen here.

So there was some talk about Yokic not playing late in the game and the All-Star game. And I find Yokic to be a fascinating player. Here's why. He's not built for All-Star games. Carl Malone was a more consistent, great player than Dr. J. Dr. J is built for an All-Star game. Totally flamboyant, wild, memorable. crazy and love the spotlight.

His biggest dunks were in the biggest games. Carl Malone put me to sleep, and I watched them live 20 times, and you take away John Stockton and the free throws, you take away about 40% of his points, and none of his baskets are memorable. I can't remember two Carl Malone baskets. That's Yokic.

He's a damn point center. The All-Star game, we want John Morant on the floor being a guard. We want our bigs being Embed, dunks and that Yokic, and by the way, this is the downside to being unique in any career. This is why he's a second round pick. There's no comp for him, right? Like Russell Wilson is a third rounder because there's no comp. Kyler Murray goes one because Russell's his comp, right?

And so I find Yokic is one of those guys. I think he's a great player. But as I was watching the All-Star game, I'm like, I don't want to see Yokic. He's not an all-star. And it's an interesting thing. You and I have talked about our business. some people are built for the take. Some people are built for depth.

And like, Yokic is a bad All-Star player. And he's going to be for the next 15 years. He's probably going to win three MVPs. Thoughts. I think you're explaining Rudy Gobert more than you are, Yopich. Right? When you start to do the Carl Malone part of this where you go,

like, look, two of the, two of my favorite moments ever from an all-star game of the same one, Dominique Wilkins. He had two, three-60s in the same game. I forget he was on the call. I'm wondering if it was Tommy Hineson. We're talking mid-80s, and he's like, oh, it's a 720, you know, because he had Dominic Wilkins,

as your point that I do agree with, built for the All-Star game. The problem is, it's not so much that Yokic is, say, boring. It's that you need everybody else to understand how great he is and to play that way around him. Because Denver, that's not a great team with these injuries, man. Yeah. And what he's doing for them is, like,

Look, I don't like when people say it's not close when it's close. It's close between Embed and Yokic. I probably changed my mind a couple times every week, depending on who I most recently saw because I'm so enamored with both of them. I'm huge fans of both players. But Yokic is probably boring in an all-star setting because the other four guys don't want to play basketball. Yeah, you know, I heard things about Michael Porter years ago.

And they've all come true. You know, you and I both know scouts. And in fact, I'll throw this out there. Big time. So today, I had a general manager in the NFL text me and say, what do you think about Kyle Hamilton, the kid on your podcast? And I wrote some stuff. I was so proud. He goes, shit.

I wish my scouts were this detail. This is great. And so I think you and I privately harbor this interest. We'd love to be scouts. But now we make too much money to be a regional scout. but it's a great life, right? But it, well, yeah. Wait, do you think you'd be a good GM?

Be honest. I'm a very good delegator. So that part I'd be really good. I'm not laughing about the idea. You're kind of laughing at me. I'm laughing at the drama building in this answer. So let me lay out and just give you the space. I think I'm very good.

I think at the volume my staff would tell you, I'm a good delegator. I can spot talent. I can, you know, when you, when you, I thought at ESPN, when I helped build FS1 and I wrote lists of people, I tried to get you. I think I'm good at spotting and compartmentalizing talent. I'm also not somebody that's terribly rigid. I can pivot off stuff. If you tell me something, I don't mind being wrong.

I think it's funny. Like if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I move off it in one instant. I'm not rigid. I'm not stubborn. Now, obviously, if I'd have dedicated my life at seven until today, with being a scout, I think it'd be pretty effective. I haven't.

So right now I just whiff and be terrible. But I do think I do have certain things. I really like kind of incubating talent. And I like giving people little bits of wisdom because I'm older than almost all my friends. So that part, I'm a good baton hander. Right? Like I like spotting stuff, helping you see it, elevating it. And I don't think you can be selfish as a manager or a GM.

So that I would be good at. So now that I just talk too long. Go ahead. No, that's all right. I talk forever. I mean, you get the two of us together. Who knows? Well, I like Kyle Hampton a lot.

So do I. So I think you had more on the answer. I interrupted your answer with another question. So I don't have much more to add to that. I do know that you, if you're going to be a GM or you're going to be anybody like that. You can't, like the guys that screw up will almost always say, I didn't really know how to manage people.

Yeah. That's what I think they get people to turn on them immediately. I mean, look, some guys just completely whiff in the draft. Some people have bad ownership. It has nothing to do with the GM or whatsoever. But I think you're pointing on something pretty good. Did you watch draft day with Kevin Costner? I've not seen that yet.

You know, it's funny? Three weeks ago, somebody brought it up and I'm like, I'm embarrassed to admit I've never seen it. And I think that's okay. I think it's okay to admit that. Two nights ago, it's on. And I watched the last hour, 15. And it's really pretty darn good. I liked it.

I mean, it's overly dramatic. But it was pretty good. I couldn't write on that one because they would have, I'd be like, that was not going to happen. They'd be like, get this guy out of here. No wonder. Like you're, uh, the GM. Costner was way more daring than any real life GM. Like he was doing making deals and you're like, yeah, that shit ain't happening on the clock.

I'm sorry. I hate to break it to you. That may have happened in March. It's not happening. 23rd on Friday. It ain't happening. Yeah, because I think I remember even Daryl Morey tweeting like, this isn't even remotely realistic. You're like, no shit. No shit. Like, hey, we're 30 minutes into the movie and these guys have only talked about mid-level exceptions. We're going to have to get this moving a bit,

guys. Can we get to the story? So, hey. It is it, Ben. No, okay, go ahead. No, go ahead. You go ahead. This is, Ben, let's not Barry the headline. This is, 2021 was a big cowherd year. If you were a stock and I were on CNBC and I were analyzing you, I'd say, look, a lot of people said he was at a ceiling. There wasn't

really much room to growth. It kind of reached their market share. I go, but you know what? Between Westbrook and Mayfield, we still seem some upside potential in this guy. That's why I'd probably sell you now. I think I'd sell you now based on you maximizing the value of your baker and Westbrook positions.

I don't know. The volume is, we're getting guys like Rosillo on the volume. I think I got some growth here for the next two years. You felt so bad about being right about Baker, which again, I thought was a little personal at times. You then posted a picture of him at your friend David Slay's restaurant. And because he was polite at the restaurant, you felt like, hey, you know, I'm a real straight shooter. I've been hard on Baker-Mayfield, but he didn't flip tables over at my friend's restaurant. So he's okay in my book.

You know what? Is that I do always think that I've got to be fair. Like, I will admit, I think Aaron Rogers is incredibly needy. He's just not my kind of guy at all. I mean, I've broken off friendships because guys were high maintenance. Two things I break off a friendship. You're a shitty tipper or you're high maintenance. I don't know about his tipping, but he is so high maintenance.

By the way, let me segue to you. Let me pivot to you. You've got to watch out for this. Because when you're a good looking guy, you get close to 40 and you've never been married, no kids. Yeah. You know what happens is you start, you have a high IQ. You've got to maintain your high EQ. Because what happens is, I mean, I talked about this in the intro.

If I went to- This sounds like Vince Vaughn right now. Or this is, no, it reminds me more than Vince-Fon. This is McConaughey, a director's cut outtake from Wolfo Wall Street when he's talking to DiCaprio. So go ahead. if I went to Anne and said, hey, babe, I'm going to take a 12-day cleanse. You got the kids.

You got the house. You got the dogs. I'll see you in like two Thursdays. She would literally look at me and say, get out. Go stay at a hotel. But when you're 40, no kids, it's the Overman thing. It's, I love Bill Maher, but it's like you become the center of your universe. Kids humble you.

Relationships humble you. Animals humble you. I'm cleaning shit out of my yard four times. a day with my dogs. And so you got to be careful, Rosillo, because your life right now is working out, crushing a podcast, and eating steaks. You've got to be careful. It's a fair observation, I would admit, you know, when people try to tell me like, hey, kids completely round you out, it's not that they make you happy all the time. It's that they bring you to even, right? They bring you even whether it's their support and the younger age is unconditional love or their hatred for you as

they grow older. And then it kind of just makes you go, all right, whatever issues I have to deal with, I got to try to get my 14 year old to stop hating me. I understand these things. I do understand the things without understanding it, which is what I try to explain to people, but then, I don't know, people never want to hear it. They never want to hear from somebody that's older and doesn't have any kids. And then I'll just think like, hey, you do realize there's like seven billion of us.

Like, there's a lot of people that have had kids. So, like, you know. No. See, you're pushing back a little bit. You know, didn't Anne essentially do that to you, though? Oh, she broke up me seven times. I mean, seriously. Yeah. Right.

No. I'm just mean, like, if you said, hey, I'm taking off for a couple weeks. She kind of moved. Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean, Anne was, it was, it was really funny for two people that were in love. It was, we did, we had a lot of conflict. I mean, it was. I'm not talking back in the day. I'm not trying to get into your business.

No, I'm fine with it. Right. But she just doesn't. deal with my you know she's not going to deal with anything like if i throw stuff at her she just throws it right back but see this is what i need i need somebody who likes me but not so much they want to see me every day that's right because that's what i would need in my life and that's why i think what you have is perfect man so who's your uh i don't want well i am going to get personal so are you dating right now you're not getting this on no you're not dating oh jesus so you're just out

there throwing fastballs and seeing who can catch it that's dangerous jesus You're just throwing out. You got 30 pound test line. You got bait on there. You're throwing it out there and just whatever shark grabs it you're reeling home. I don't know if that's, I finished a feature script the other day. So I was very excited about that. I'm dating my work, Colin.

Oh, God, that sounds awful. It really does. I'm in a relationship with art. Oh, good hell. I was trying to make an Aaron Rogers. I was going to say. So let's pivot to that. So here's how I read the Instagram.

It was a lot of heart. It felt like Monday. I didn't make it. I got a couple lines. I couldn't do it. It had an onion feel to it. I was like, Aaron, honestly, stop sipping tequila. Like scale back.

When you start drinking, you start kind of being, you either get snarky or sweet. He got, I mean, he went off a little bit, right? Like, I read it and I was like, this is a Hallmark card, man. This is one of those bad, cheesy posters you buy it Hallmark. You know, like wine is good for the soul. Get drunk on it. It's like, no, I just want to get drunk on it. drunk without the soul. I don't need the soul. Yeah, I don't want, yeah, I don't want any soul.

I just want to, you know, feel a little loose. I'll always, I'm always amazed just in general of the pursuit. I just don't have that in me. I don't know what that is. Maybe it's just the efficiency. Pursuit of what? Personal P-E-R. Where when I'll hear about these people that it'll be like, oh, you know, for a year or so, I turned them down, I'm like, fuck. Like, if I don't get a text back that has some sort of emotion to it, I'm like, I'm out, you know? So he was, he was saying, it's like, you let me chase. I still would like to know, like, how hard. Part of a cell was it multiple MVP starting quarterback in the NFL. I can't imagine it was just like, I don't know.

I don't see it. Yeah. You know, I have. Are we being too personal about this? No. I don't know. I don't want to be unfair here. No, we're not being unfair.

I mean, listen, I just think this started with Aaron's a lot of work. It's like, you're not low. You're not high maintenance at all. Like I'll call you into, hey, dude, steak's tonight on me. You're like, no, it's on me. Let's do it tomorrow. Literally, we'll talk for a minute. you are the lowest maintenance guy.

But there are things with Aaron. And I'm like, and I said this in the preamble to you. I said, you know, we dock Brady because of his age and Garapolo because of his health and Wentz because of his risk factor. Ryan, if I'm a general manager, Aaron's a lot of work. He's a lot of work for the staff. He's a lot of work for the front office. I'm not giving up four firsts for him.

I think you have to, I mean, I'm serious about this. Like, we dock quarterbacks based on age and health. And Aaron, to me, is not as valuable as Matt Stafford on the open market. Stafford is like a total adult, low maintenance, great in the fourth. Like, I feel like with Matt, he just does his shit, goes home to his wife and kids, and I don't worry about him. Aaron's gotten to the point where it's like, man, it's a little like Durant. You've got to walk on eggshells a lot with him, right?

Well, first of all, I'm very pro-d-rant, even though I think we could talk about any one of our single favorite athletes ever. And if we wanted to make a negative argument about him or an anti-argument, we do this for a living. I could come up with some stuff. But I just don't even, like, I've almost made a rule recently. If I like 90% of yet, I don't want to spend time on pointing out to 10% all the time. You and I have disagreed about Rogers in the past. I think you were harder on him than I was. I think I've defended him throughout his entire career.

I've loved watching him. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

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growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Play, you know, he's going to go down as one of the all-time greats. As far as his ability, his resume is not going to be close to some of the other top guys. But I started to come to your side of the argument in a little bit through this last season

because I kept thinking, look, you need to be more specific about what is so bad. That's what you said. You're mad about Jordan. Yeah, right. Like, if you're mad about Jordan Love, I get it. I also think Brady should have been pissed about Garapolo or the time they took Kevin O'Connell, I think, in the third round. Do you remember that?

Well, he's now a head coach of the Vikings. You don't remember his playing career. It was a total whiff. You're like, why do you have to get cute with this shit? And so I felt like with Rogers, I mean, you need to convince me that you're basically Matthew Stafford. Like, imagine? Like, I'm looking at him going, you guys have a really good roster. No one's ever had a problem with this front office until you've pointed out.

They've actually spent in free agency with this new regime, much more they did with Ted Thompson. And yet they've always put this together. enough, I really wanted to get a Roger's case, you start pointing to some of these home playoff losses, and I'm not even going there with it. So I didn't feel like he was convincing enough for me to believe in all the drama, which would then lead towards how high maintenance is this guy. Now, to say, is he worth it? Think about some of these franchises that go easily two decades before they have any answer at the position. If you know you can bring him in, even at his age, he's still worth it. It actually kind of mirrors your Michael Porter Jr. point that we

didn't really finish. I heard stuff. I also heard the most important thing, that he was the biggest medical red flag teams that had seen in 10 plus years. But no one cares about the tow truck. No one cares about some of his political. No one cares about that stuff if he's healthy in scoring 20 a game. And I'm not saying no one, but you understand in the scheme of what we do in talking sports. If you're productive, those things don't matter as much. And for Rogers, he's still as productive as anyone playing the position. Although I agree, like, this is taking a turn to last year plus where I've thought, how are you this mad when the team, you? has been this good.

Right? Like they're not going four and 12 every year. With sports betting taking off, it's important to find the experts you can trust to help you make some money, right? Check out the favorites sports betting podcast powered by Fandu only on the volume podcast network. My buddy Chad Millman, pro better Simon Hunter

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Okay, so I threw something out today. You've heard about this Havana syndrome in Cuba. We send diplomats to Cuba. They go to this hotel. They come back. They're all sick. Nobody knows what it is. They call it the Havana syndrome.

And I said, Brett Farv and Aaron Rogers are completely different people. I mean, Southerner, no cow, almost a hippie. They've become the same person. Why? And I call it the Green Bay Packer quarterback syndrome. So the organization, the Super Bowl trophies named after your coach, it's called Title Town. You will win the division because you've always been almost always the best run organization.

So there is this unique pressure. But over the last 20 to 25 years, not having an owner is an issue. I mean, Stan Cronkey's on the phone. That's why you get Matt Stafford. Because Cronkies on the tarmac and McVan left Sneed, Cronky told me this. He's about ready to take off. And they're like, we've got to make a decision now. And he's on the tarmac at LAX in his Gulfstream.

And he's like, okay, let's do it. You couldn't do that with the Packers. Secondly, they don't get free agents. OBJ, von Miller. That's really important to get great talent. So the Green Bay Packers syndrome is you have this Lombardi trophy, title town pressure. You dominate the division.

And then you fail in the playoffs. And you get a lot of heat. and every March, April, May, June, you get kind of restless because you're continually disappointing people when the truth is it's not easy. I think it's almost essential to have a strong-willed owner and free agent viability. It's not built to entitles now. And so I think Farvin Rogers, this is, if Jordan Love was great, in 10 years, this is what he would deal with. And so, you know, that's kind of my takeaway. I think it is hard to be Farvin Rogers

in that town and that team. I think it's so unique to professional sports. There's nothing else really like it. Your take. I don't know if you're right or wrong on it because why do they win 10 years ago, you know, like I think there are times in sports. I can remember stuff that's specific to me. I remember forever. Well, the reason Red Sox haven't won in eight decades is because the monster. You know, you can't get left-handers there. It's impossible. And then they win four world series. And you're like, oh, okay, well, maybe, maybe, you know, like what happened? Your point to L.A. Hey, they can go get OBJ. They can bring in Vaughn Miller. Jalen Ramsey wanted to be here. All of these different things. Well, shouldn't they win more then? I love the,

the comp, though, of Farv and Rogers becoming very similar despite completely different backgrounds. I love that because Fav I mean think how selfish you have to be to be Farr of towards the end of your career to basically retire four times and come back. Okay? And then Farrv act like he was done wrong.

He went to play for the Jets just so he could play with the Vikings to get back at him. I kind of respect the pettiness and the grudge holding as an all-time grudge holder. I respected that part of it. That's the part.

I wouldn't say it's the inability to win. And that may be, not be what you're doing. Maybe because there is this void that it leads to you thinking you're more important and more powerful at that position, especially when we're talking about back-to-back all-timers here. Like, I don't know that anybody's going to have a top 10 list at all time of the position without both of those guys. I think that would actually be a big mistake.

So maybe that's what it is, that you become this powerful figure that fills this void that only exists in Green Bay. Yeah. So that's the part I would agree with you on. I just don't know. Sometimes I don't love playing the results of like, hey, this team won, so now let's go backwards and say why all these reasons are smart. Like the Rams are another perfect example.

Like now everybody just, draft picks suck? Well, I think that's a bit extreme. Okay. Now, if you want to tell me, hey, we want to start trading picks in the 20s all the time, well, now I might be listening to you, you know, probably on to something. So I'm with you on the personality part of it. And look, I don't spend any time out there. It's one of the few places I haven't been.

I haven't spent a ton of time. But it is crazy that you've had back-to-back guys. think so highly of themselves, they basically hold their franchise as hostage. And that's what we've had. Yeah. I mean, what's interesting is the point you made, I also used on the air, but I didn't use it in our discussion five minutes ago, which is with no owner, you are the most powerful person. You're much more powerful. You know, it's like what's happened to college basketball and football coaches.

You're the highest paid state employee. With no owner, Aaron is by far and away the richest, most powerful person in the organization. organization. I mean, Matt Stafford, his career earnings are less than Stan Cronky will make, you know, over a weekend between his ownership of his teams. Like, and you, you know, as powerful as Belichick is, Bob Kraft is like trade Garoppolo. Okay. Like you do, Farv and Aaron. One of the few times, I believe, too, in the history of this relationship in New England, 20 years now, where for Kraft got his way because of Tom. So, no, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just saying that was, that's how rare that was, though, and that's,

in that time. I don't think that's happened very often with those two. The volume. Hi, I'm Dr. Andreas Michaelitis, chief psychologist at Noom. But what's Noom and why does Noom need a chief psychologist? Noom is a weight loss program that works with results that last because we know that changing the way you eat starts with your mind. With Noom's proven psychology bag tools, one-on-one coaching, and flexible plans that emphasize progress over perfection, you'll have the tools you need to change your

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Just make sure you know the big stuff, like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right seat for their age and size. Get it right. Visit nhtsa.gov. Brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes,

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

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