The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Pulisic's World Cup Fallout, Inside Jaylen Brown Trade, US Soccer's Future

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Colin Cowherd is joined by 'First Things First' co-host Danny Parkins on the podcast. Colin explains why he missed The Herd today off the top. Then they go into Christian Pulisic's rest comments and give their takes on the US Soccer player and what the future holds for him. Next they deep dive into the Celtics trading Jaylen Brown and why Jaylen's value across the league wasn't as much as fans & media thought. Lastly they go back to the World Cup to discuss the future of this year's tournament and which broadcast partner could land it in the next deal. How can the USA grow from hosting the World Cup and get to the next level in soccer.  TIMELINE 03:00 Christian Pulisic & Team USA 25:00 Jaylen Brown Trade 49:00 World Cup Future  All lines provided by @hardrockbet (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's S-Q-U-A-E-R.com slash geo-slash-Hurt. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. Right now, $200 off, Square Hardware at square.com slash go-slash-collar. S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go-slash-collin. So, by the way, if you're wondering, I am healthy enough to do a 45-minute podcast today, but my boss has called me after yesterday's show. I played hurt yesterday.

I had a fever, and the stomach virus is going around the Midwest. So I went to bed last night at 735. Took Theraflu. I broke my fever, so I'm okay. Stomach's a mess. It's a Midwest thing, whatever. But we had this plan, and I think it's fitting because there's so many things I want to talk about with Danny Parkins.

So, you know, listen, every four years, after we lose in the World Cup, the drum beats. culture, you know, it's our youth movement. But I did think it was kind of instructive that Carly Lloyd, Stu Holden, Alexie Lawless, all kind of had the same drumbeat, which is, hey, Christian Pulisic, nobody wants to hear about rest. This isn't baseball. You don't have a game tomorrow. We don't want to hear about rest. And I think it's fair, and I'll tell you why. Poulissix is a smaller athlete, has never messed a World Cup game, and you know he hasn't been healthy 100% of the time. We know Poulissick's not Erling Holland. He's not a soccer version

of Grom. But he gets banged up a lot. He's 27. But there is an indifference or a lack of urgency sometimes that comes off as condescending from Pulisic. Like he's above it all. And we don't like that from our athlete. By the way, if you said that in Argentina, the Argentinian press would savage you. If you said it in Greece or Italy or London, you'd get crushed for it. I think my knock on Pulisic is that this is different than the other sports. It's every four years. Soccer already faces a little cynicism because of the flopping. So you kind of fake injuries all the time. So like, when you come up and say, all right, I can still see on the pitch, you can still move. I don't want to hear about rest. I don't think that's unfair. I think it's pandering

to call that unfair. I think that's very reasonable international soccer commentary by Carly, Stu, and Alexi. Of course. I mean, he after the game said that he thought he maybe sprained his ankle. We expect you to play through a sprained ankle. Right. Like, I mean, if it would have come out afterwards that he would have ruptured his Achilles, you know, no one would have said anything, you know, but it was like, wait, you, you kicked the other guy, you kind of stubbed your foot into the ground, you were hobbling around out there. We, like, we expect you to be able to hobble that off. And I'm not saying that I could do it, but I am saying that world class athlete should be able to do it. And this is the thing. I am, I am not a 24th.

seven, 365 soccer person, but I really prepped very hard ahead of this World's Cup. I take my job very seriously with how first things first overtime is going. Like Nick Wilds and Brew are not on the show with me. So I'm doing the full hour with me and Dax McCarty and maybe other soccer people that we bring on. So like I prepped my ass off ahead of this World's Cup. Part of that was watching the five-part Team USA documentary. And in the documentary, there was a whole section of time on Policic feeling defensive and

pushing back against the old American soccer establishment, guys like Alexi and Landon, who had criticized him for skipping the gold cup. They were like, you've got to play in the gold cup. Because this is such a huge tournament for Team USA and it's a home world cup and he was like,

I need the rest and I have to prioritize rest. And they really criticized them and he pushed back against it. And then Polisic Also, I know he's not the most media friendly guy, but I think that's a little overstated. There's also a nine-part documentary just about him on Paramount. It's the Policic story. And then he was profiled in GQ ahead of this tournament. And he said, it's just another big tournament. Like, I came out of this thing saying, I honestly wonder if the World Cup is as big of a deal to him as playing for A.C.

Milan. He makes his money from AC Milan. It's the biggest American transfer fee in the history of our country. Like, it's weird to say, but I honestly felt like, do we care? Does Donovan care? Does Alexi care more about wearing the crest of America than Polisic does? And I know he laid his body on the line and had the great goal in the last World Cup against Iran and all of those things, but you would never catch Messy saying it's just another tournament about the World Cup. And so I think when you combine skipping the Gold Cup, it's just another tournament, asking out of both a group stage game and a knockout stage game with non-devastating injuries, these people who are soccer establishment, people in America who played the game,

they did not reach this conclusion on Polisic just because of the game against Belgium. This is years in the making for them with Policic. And I think it's totally fair to question if playing for America in the World Cup is his absolute number one priority. Listen, I've said this about Luca Dantage. His reality now and Joe Burroughs, they're both like one more injury away from, we're out of the peak. Like they're injury prone. Like I've said that about Luca. He's never in great shape.

He now has three straight years of being injured. if it becomes four, that devastatingly great trade isn't as great as you thought. Neither Dallas or the Lakers are viable. So, and I think, but one of the things that pushes back, I would push back is our soccer culture isn't terribly hard. I mean, we still consider playing college soccer a big deal, where if you go internationally to a Morocco, the best African nation now in terms of soccer, if you go to England and you go to other places, like that collegiate soccer, it's academies.

And ours is, hey, get a D1 scholarship. And it's a little, I would say it's a little precious. It doesn't really, it's, and by the way, in basketball, one of the reasons there's so many great international players that have usurp like our great domestic players is their academy system is better than our AAU system. And I do think sometimes the people that cover soccer for a living, especially the print people, New York Times, the athletic, they get a little precious. They get a little defensive. They start pandering. You don't understand soccer. I don't have to be a chef to know the fish is undercooked.

I'm sending it back to the kitchen. I don't have to be a music critic to know that guy's a hack and that person's great. Like, you don't have to be an expert. Pulisic is 27, injury prone. And to your point, there's a sense he lacks kind of like urgency. There's a certain aesthetic and a certain commentary where I feel like, bro, this shit matters. Like, a lot. I mean, I mean, this World Cup was so successful.

is probably going to get another one sooner than anticipated. I've read that several times. This has been a groundbreaking World Cup. Yeah, listen. That's why you have, there's a lot here. And I think it's fascinating. And I know sometimes, like, the hottest take is the best take. But I think there's a lot here.

Like, the World Cup has been a huge success. Rating, ratings, attendance. My six-year-old asked for a messy jersey. Like, you know what I mean? I mean, like, he's getting into it. It's like growing soccer in America, all of that. That is happening even without the U.S. stepping forward. I also think the U.S. did make progress in this specific way.

If you look in the rearview mirror. Like, I think the, say we're the 18th best team in the world for our number. Yeah. I think the gap between us and like the 50th best team has grown. Whereas, like, we've, the last now four World Cups that we've made, we've made it's the same round every time, the round of 16. But in the past, we've kind of eeked our way there. Draws, one-one games.

And in this World Cup, and I know part of it is we're the host country, so we got the pot one draw. I know part of it is expanded field. So there's a round of 32 now, so a little bit weaker competition. But we kind of kicked the shit out of some teams. Scored three goals, scored four goals, had the most first half goals of any team in the whole tournament through the round of 32. Like, we were putting the ball in the back of the net.

I do think we have separated ourselves a bit from Paraguay and Australia and teams like that. But when you lose as convincingly as we did to Belgium, the whole thing was, are you going to take a step forward? We still have a huge gap between us and the truly top teams. Yes. Well, it's interesting you bring that up. So here are the quarter finalists. France, Argentina, England, Belgium, Spain. Those are world powers.

World Pouts, yeah. Switzerland, once again, fifth, sixth straight World Cup. I think this is the third or the fourth time they made it of the quarters, historically respected. Morocco is now brilliant Federation, apparently, depth, top African nation. And then Norway has a superstar. Yeah. Okay. So either superstar, soccer power, respected historical, relevant European team, or the best African nation.

That's who beat us out. And I would say this between Casey Keller, you know, Tim Howard's, we were uniquely weak in goalie. We had an MLS goalie. Our goalies have always been English Premier League, Casey Keller, European guy for 15 years. If we had one of our usual goalies in, we lose two to one. Yes. We don't give up the second or the third goal. We give up the first.

We give up the last. We lose two to one. We're outplayed. but the sense is, well, if Belgium beat Spain, we're losing to really good people. So, A, you're right, there's growth. B, look at who ends up in the quarters, the best African nation superpowers. The other thing that should be noted is participation. Remember this, Danny.

Look at the world going forward. A lot of parents don't want their kids to play football because of violence. Basketball genetically, let's be honest, it is a really tall person sport. Baseball to kids, often a lot of standing around and boring. Hockey's super expensive. Soccer's fun. There is pay to play, but it's cheaper than hockey, probably two to three times cheaper. This will increase participation.

No question. And my guess is, although, albeit were pay to play, I think in communities, if you really saw, the local teams really saw a spectacular kid at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old, you'd find a way to engineer it and get them in. There's a lot of visibility now with soccer. the academy system is broader. So I do think to your point, this was an absolute win. Better goalie, we lose two to one.

And we were embarrassed. We weren't beaten. It's not that we lost. It's how we lost. And it got really embarrassing in the last 30 to 40 minutes. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I thought it was kind of embarrassing from jump with how cautious they played. Like I did not consider the fact that we could get blown out in that game.

And we did. And I thought that that was apparent pretty early on. I was like, oh my God. Like it just like the moment felt a little too big for them. And it is, I mean, Egypt almost beat Argentina and would have been further than us. And then we would have been like, well, what about this group that is like, why can't we be Egypt? And I do think it's totally fair to be like, why can't we have our Erling Holland? Like, we thought it was going to be Freddie Adieu.

It wasn't. We thought it was going to be Christian Polisic. It wasn't. Now people are like, there's this kid, Kevin Sullivan, who's 16 on Philly and MLS. And I'm like, I can't keep waiting for the. great savior to come. Right. And I do think, and again, I am not an expert on the pay to play thing, but there is something to our best player is for Lauren Balligan, who was completely developed

in England. Like, you know what I mean? His parents are Nigerian. He came up through the English club scene. And the only reason he was able to play for Americas because his mom had him here in birthright citizenship, because she was pregnant and deemed that it wasn't. good for her to fly back when she was pregnant. And he was like, I don't know that I'll start if I play on England because of Harry Kane

and everything that they have. So I'll go play for America. Like, we got to figure out why they were able to develop our best player and figure out a way for us to be able to develop a couple of our best, our own best players. Yeah. And by the way, they're, you know, if you look at France and a lot of these nations, you, there is these routes to get your best players. Apparently the Federation in Morocco.

I was reading about it this morning, actually, as my stomach flu was ravaging through the house, Morocco's Federation apparently has done a really good job to find connections through Europe. And that's why they have so much depth. If you watch Morocco, talking about a dark horse, like, you watch them, and maybe the fastest team left. Man, they are like in France speed. They got a bunch wings, midfielders. They move. They're hard to defend.

So I think a lot of this is federation-based, academy-based, and it's hurting our basketball a little bit. I mean, who are our best domestic players? Cooper Flagg, Aunt Edwards, Jason Tatum. And it feels like there's a drop-off. Like, like Trey Young? I mean, the analytics don't like Jalen Brown. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think, but I do believe every four years there is this chorus is that we're not growing.

There's clear growth from participation. to elevation of skill and technical expertise. I think we're a little soft. I think the soccer culture is a little harder in England than Argentina than it is here. But I felt growth. I felt growth, like I said, kind of looking, like we distanced ourselves from the lesser teams,

which we were a part of. And I'm not sure if we grew enough in the direction of the top teams. And I'm going to be very interested they didn't like because listen poachina was expensive like what what do they do with him i know everybody wants him back and i do too i like him it did seem interesting to me that it was like we weren't tough enough we weren't ready to play but we love the manager it's like i don't know some of that might be on coaching like i don't exactly know but it seems like so but i i i do think that you know they've opened up u s soccer complexes and training development programs like

you spend more money on it, you will develop better players and you need a continuity of program. And to your point, this tournament kind of flipped. My whole life watching the U.S. on the international level, it was like, can we score goals? Right. Like, we had four goals. We had four goals in the 2022 World Cup in total. In total.

This time, it's like, okay, we can score goals. Like, if we took Tim Howard and a couple of great Oracle of Americans. American defenders from the past and put them on this team with Balligan and some of our midfielders and, you know, forward players. We could have had a great team. It's just we don't have the, we got to put it all together at once. See, I feel better about this because I'd rather say we got to find a better goalie than we just don't have the technical skill to score goals. I feel broadly great about our technical skill. It'll only get better.

This whole team comes back probably with three to four additions. At least. But we just have to find a goalie. I always felt like we got a goalie. I wish we had seven guys who could pass and dribble like they do in England. So I feel broadly very good about it. Yeah, I think that makes sense. I mean, listen, Tim Ream was too old and too slow as like our main defensive player, right?

So I think it is probably, yeah, I was reading articles about like projecting the 2030 men's national team roster. And it's very difficult to do. But there are there are names. You know, Dax McCarty, our first thing's first analyst who's been great. He played a ton of MLS. He played on the men's national team. He knows the MLS. He's like, yeah, there's a lot of really young talent.

But they just, we need to hit. Like, we need to hit on some stars. I mean, Belgium is subbing in Lukaku, and it's like, would he be our best player? He came off the bench for them. Weston McKinney is really good for us. But he's been like, okay on Juventus. You know, Christian Polisic, a huge deal. He led Milan in goals and assists.

But Milan was really disappointing. He was like a good player on a historically great team that also had a bad year. So we do need to, we have players who are playing in Spain and Italy and Europe and all over. But like we need we need stars. We need to keep leveling up. We're not there yet. Today's show is brought to you by our friends and our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. Listen, the world's biggest soccer tournament is here.

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Many surprises. Welcome to Sweet 305, where the group chat comes to life. What a B. It's like a way to say like, oh, my God, oh, my friend, hello, oh, my brother. Look, never I've ever had

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The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Discraseland on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to shift to Jalen Brown. That's obviously a bit of big story, overshadowed by the Olympics, overshadowed by the World Cup, obviously. So it's interesting. When analytics, football analytics, we don't talk about a lot. Soccer analytics, hockey analytics, not so much. It's really been, it's taken over baseball and basketball.

analytics, if you're not upstairs, if you're not in on analytics all in, to like a Celtics level, you're falling behind and your viewed as sort of hacky and Jurassic. So in baseball, analytics marginalized the manager. Players didn't have to love it, but it was really about the manager now may not even fill out the lineup. Right. That going with your gut instincts, it's like, it sounds like a bad president. No, you have to read the briefings in the morning.

You can't go with your gut, right? analytics in basketball isn't about the coach because they all believe in it. It's about the high-scoring player who's a bad analytic player. So whereas baseball managers grumbled about it like Moneyball, you know, the art how moment with Brad Pitt, right? In basketball, the analytics punish often the Trey Young, the Jalen Brown, not the baseball manager. The first time I heard about analytic, a good player in analytics was Montay Ellis.

for the warriors who people just in it. I wasn't even like paying attention, but I remember high usage rate, didn't do much on the defensive end, didn't necessarily elevate teammates. And so the point being is, so now you're seeing players get a little, like the Jalen Brown story is really an analytically

beholden franchise. Nobody's more formulaic than the Boston Celtics. And Brown's a bad analytic player. So in the departments of the Celtics, so the coaching staff, asks about Jalen Brown, and they're like, and he doesn't really, he pushes back in analytics. The analytic department with the Celtics is like, yeah, move him.

Tatum's camp, according to stories, is not close to it. And the ownership guys are, he's really expensive. So if somebody was going to get rid of me, there'd be several departments at Fox you go to. If all four were like, Coward doesn't work in analytics, he doesn't get along with Nick Wright. You know, to be honest,

honest with you, he's really expensive. And the boss at FS1 in him, he said he's not that coachable. So the truth of the matter is, analytics to baseball marginalized most managers. What it's doing in the NBA now is the Trey Youngs and the Jalen Browns were conditioned to think they score 28. They're great. And the data now says, they don't work for a shoot quickly, pass quickly offence. Yeah, I think that there's also, you know, the CBA, and it gets confusing, first apron, second apron, you know, bird rights, people don't like talking about it. But in baseball, you do have some owners that are willing to just kind of spend over it.

And if they're willing to pay the tax, they can pay it. basketball doesn't really operate that way. And so Jalen Brown, I do think, is a, I think it's been a little overstated. He is an excellent basketball player. Yes. But if he was making $40 million, everybody would want him. But because he's going to make $55 million,

people are like, eh, we can replace that production in a different way. So I think it is like, yes, analytically driven, but it's also analytically driven relative to the cap. Like, that's how you have to look at it. Like, can we get 90% of the production for 70% of the cost? And right, which is business. And I think that that is, and then you add in the personality stuff with him and Tatum and all of it that you go in that direction.

And listen, Brad Stevens, I've said it before. I will say it again for my book, Pipeline of the Pros. We talked it to dozens. of coaches and executives in the NBA. He is, maybe other than Theo Epstein, the smartest person I've ever talked to in sports. Media, coach, player, executive. He didn't, like, get the wool pulled over his eyes on this one.

Right? Like, he got fleeced. No, he didn't. Like, I have not spoken to him about this. I haven't spoken to him since the book. He's not that kind of guy. But, like, it is a, he didn't get fleeced. And so I actually came out of this trade thinking they actually weren't close to getting Janus.

I think that the Bucks used that as leverage with Miami to get as much out of that deal as they could have possibly wanted. I don't think the league viewed Jalen Brown at that contract as a supremely valuable basketball talent. And it is fascinating because it might be the biggest disconnect, Colin, that I can remember in basketball between media and I test. watching the games and analytics and an understanding of the money because the media just voted him sixth per MVP. If you would have said to me a month ago, top 10 two-way players in basketball, I think Jalen Brown would have been on my list. Right?

Just like removing money from it. And now he's traded for Paul George and a couple of picks. It is a crazy story to wrap your head around. Well, Joel M. Bede won MVP. I would argue push back that he didn't even fit with the Olympic team. When you put him with winning great players, most of them analytically superior, Embed didn't really fit. So Mbead's the classic, I mean, I don't know what his analytics are.

Paul George is a very good analytic player. I think what's happened with the second apron is everybody chooses one player. In Denver, it's Yokic. And then what you do is build to support his weak, This is. Yochich wasn't a good defensive player. Let's get Aaron Gordon from Orlando. Athletic, Springy. Now, Gordon has sort of due age and have injuries. They probably stuck with Jamal Murray a little longer, who's not super athletic, but they're like, they fit like a glove. Right. And in Boston, they made a decision. They're like, okay, we're going to go with one of these guys going forward. We can get out of the Paul George contract sooner. And he's also not going to get an extension. We're not going to get into those talks. And the be truth is, if you have to put him next to each other, we're into analytics. Haydman is better analytically. The coaches feel more strongly about him. We win when a usage rate is here with Tatum and Brown is struggling. You know, he can be a dribble the air out of the ball player at times. And you can't get that usage rate according to the Celtic staff. I mean, you're seeing stuff now. This is why it's coming out. It's leaking. The Celtic staff saying, here's the usage rate. We win 90% of the times when Tatum has 33% usage rate. We struggle to get there when Brown's on the floor with him. It really comes down to this organization is more formulaic than any, and they had to make a choice. And they chose the guy they probably liked a little more.

They felt was more willing to listen to coaching and that analytically was superior. Yes. So I need to be very clear. I am not shocks that they traded Jalen Brown. The thing that is still hard for me to wrap my head around is that you could only get Paul George in a couple of picks for him. But that's the part that I would have thought you could have got. for teams that didn't have a guy like Jason Tatum that has some redundancies with Jalen Brown. Like that's the thing.

Like he did just be the, he was just the best player on a team that won 50 plus games when Tatum missed the whole year. He is a final MVP. He does, we were talking about Polisic, like he does play. Like, you know what I mean? Like he doesn't sit games. He doesn't get hurt. He is tough.

He does give you effort on defense. Like all of those things. Like I just, I still am surprised that you weren't able to get more for Jaylen. Brown, but I think because of the apron and the money and all of it, more teams are going in that direction. And just to bring in another story, like, I wouldn't love giving Donovan Mitchell the contract that the Cavs just gave him. Guy who has had inconsistent playoff performances, guy who hasn't won big, guy who is undersized, guy who has had some injuries, and you're going to pay him all of that money, you know, into his 30s as an undersized guard.

I wouldn't love it. But my guess is they're like, what other top 10 player are we going to be able to get? Free agency is basically dead. Maybe we'll trade this contract in the future. But like, we are in the Donovan Mitchell business because we have no other path. We have to keep our own guys. That's right. That's right.

And Hardin is not a guy you want to do that with. Mowgli's probably not a guy you're going to pay that. Whereas the Celtics felt we got two of them. Yeah. Right? We have, and so we're going to move the guy that the staff decides. I mean, you can tell from leaks. Yeah.

You can tell what gets out how people felt about him. Like you can tell coachability. You know, I was thinking about this. I was thinking about this last night because as I said, I got into bed at seven. So I did. It took me a while to fall asleep. That I thought, you know, I was in local for 14, ESB. for a decade, Fox for a decade. I own my own company now. So I've seen a lot of this stuff where

corporations all the time, I've seen it a lot, not on-air people, but upstairs. Like when talented people leave and the CEO of a company, whether it was in local TV, Fox, ESPN, or even at the volume, when you move off productive people. And it does come down to some of the stuff that you've read leaked with Jalen Brown. Like, I was reading this stuff and it just, it kind of just, it kind of jarred memories, I thought, you know, I sometimes, first of all, companies make mistakes and let the wrong person go. That could be, that could be the case. Case in point. Colin Coward. Whatever. They're on the record with that. That is, that is out there. They're like, it was a mistake. That's nice. Well, ESPN also let go of Mike Torrico, and I should say NBC bought it.

But when that happened, I remember calling one of the top three people at ESPN. I'm like, you let who's going to be, who's your lead voice at the company? I don't understand what you're doing. Like the NBC came in and, you know, paid him a lot, but it was like, there are times companies, I think, in my opinion, make mistakes. Of course. So that's, if Tatum gets hurt again, you're like, oh, yeah, well, you made a big mistake. Secondly, it usually comes down to, these are the discussions you hear.

Remember when NBC had to pick between Letterman and Leno? Bill Carter wrote about this at the time of the New York Times. is that Robert Wright ran GE, who owned NBC. And he comes in, the air conditioning is broke, the meetings in Florida, he walks into the room. It's a great movie. It's a great book by Bill Carter. And he asks, who's easier to work with, Lennerman or Lennel? Everybody's like, Lennon.

Everybody loves J. Leno. Right? Like, Lennel won the room. He'd gone to NBC affiliates. I even saw him in Vegas when I was at an NBC affiliate. Lennel played to the affiliates. He played to the advertisers. And the question was, who's he even?

easier to deal with. There are, according to certain reports out now. People felt like the staff work with Tatum more easily than Jalen Brown. I've seen that happen 20 times in my career. And again, companies make mistakes. If Tatum gets hurt again, they made a mistake. But sometimes it is just, the staff likes him, listens a little better, you know, whatever it is. And so I kind of feel like the stories I'm reading coming out is the staff chose Tatum. They like Tatum. Yeah. And Tatum is awesome.

Tatum is an awesome. Better jump shooter, higher ceiling, more fluid. Yeah. And they're like, we won, what was it, 56 games. We won 56 games with Jalen Brown doing it. And now we'll just have Tatum do it. And we're going to reallocate that. And like, they're not going to be the same.

team. They'll have Paul George, okay, fine. They'll have Mike Conley. Okay, fine. But they also added Mitchell Robinson, like one of the best offensive rebounds. The whole thing was we need to change our, you know, our identity and who we are and be more diversified and, you know, not do the same thing all the time. Well, Mitchell Robinson is going to make the Celtics look really different next year. Like, they should have a fully healthy Tatum, a better backup point guard, and one of the best rebounders in the entire sport. They're probably going to win 54 games next year and be a real threat in the Eastern Conference.

So I'm not like predicting the demise of the Celtics over this at all. I just, I did this on the show, but like when it was like Jalen Brown's clearly going to get traded, I did some mock traits, you know, and I just put them in the trade machine, had some fun for 30 minutes, came up with some that I liked and put them out there. And it was like Jabari Smith, Kevin Durant, and a couple of, a couple of draft picks to Houston. And it was like, Kauai Leonard and a couple of first round picks

and send him to the Clippers. And like send him to Atlanta and give them, you know, Nikiel Alexander Walker and Kaminga and Risha Shea and some picks. And if you go and you look at the comments from people with Celtic Clovers, you're an idiot.

You don't know ball. Like that's 50 cents on the dollar. And then they all hated the Paul. George trade and I was offering way more for Jalen Brown than they got. So I think, again, like the surprising thing is Brad Stevens does not appear to be an outlier in how he views Jalen Brown. Like the market says Jalen Brown is nowhere near the sixth best player in basketball. And I think that is what a lot of us, myself included.

Like I really am still like recalibrating. I'm like, because I like analytics. I like numbers, but I'm pretty. sure Jalen Brown is better than whatever calculation, even with his contract, that people are telling you that he's worth. Yeah, I think we're all conditioned to think, you know, I can remember the pushback I got for years saying Carmelo Anthony's overrated. Right. He won't take one step back to take a three. He's going to age quickly because he's not in great shape. He doesn't care about defense. And in the end, I was right. Yeah. He aged quickly.

he wasn't a winning player. And I've said the same thing about Luca. Anybody that's listened to me knows, I thought the Lakers won the trade. I said, if you'd have thrown in Austin Reeves or given me four first round picks instead of one, I would have slept on it because my take was back-to-back years, not in great shape, increasingly hurt, plays himself into shape, atrocious defensively, you have to build the right team around him. Anthony Davis and Max Christie and a pick's not good enough. Anthony Davis, Max Christie, four first round picks and Austin Reeves,

I probably make that deal. Like, so, because Austin Reeves at that time, I didn't feel about injuries was an issue. So I guess my whole point is I can remember getting a lot of pushback initially on the Luca thing when I said, I get the call on him and I got a ton on Carmelo. So we're conditioned to think 28 a game, that's great. No, it's 28 a game.

Are you giving up 24 on the other end? And are you alienating teammates because you dribble the air out of the ball? Listen, I think it's fascinating. And you just, you mentioned Luca and I'm thinking about that team too. Austin Reeves is an incredible offensive player and a great story, right? The best undrafted player in terms of money made now in the history of the NBA, right? It's a great story. I'm not sure that that's what I would want.

want next to Luca. Like, yes, you want shooting and spacing, no doubt. But to me, next to Luca, you want plus defensive players at every position, right? Everywhere. You want, you want three and D guys, like, which I know the whole league wants three and D guys, but like you want like athletic wings next to Luca who can catch and shoot the three because he is going to dribble the air out of the ball. Like, Austin Reeves will catch and shoot it, but he's not a plus defensive player. Walker Kessler is. Walker Kessler is really good. And I get that Luca needs a center for the lobs and the pick and roll game and all of that.

Like Walker Kessler move I understood completely. But you are now, you have no draft picks that you can trade, and two of your three highest paid guys are minuses on the defensive end of the floor, I would be very, I'm very, very skeptical of what the ceiling is for the Lakers with that as your construction around Luca Dachish. Okay.

I want to end on this. I saw this was interesting. And it's a little myopic because I love college football and a little provincial. But the Big 12 got some pushback because they signed a deal with a monster energy drink. Yeah, I saw this on Twitter. I got to be honest. I didn't even click the link because I wasn't 100% sure if it's real. So fill me in on the details.

Go ahead. So Jersey patches on teams, court logos, field markings all over the big Twitter. Did you see how much it cost Monster Energy? Wasn't it like $20 million? That's it. $20 million. And they're going to be on all jerseys, all courts, all fields. I'm like, the Big 12, like that is, I mean,

you should have done it for the volume. I mean, literally I thought the volume, maybe I would have needed a partner but we could have afforded that. Like to me, the whole take, I wasn't outraged because they sold their soul. I'm outraged because that's, I mean, if you get a stadium naming rights deal, for one stadium, you'd be like 20 million for 10 years. I don't know, my take is forget selling your soul. You gave it away.

But how valuable is the Big 12 these days? I don't, I mean, it's so, right? I mean, everything is gone. Big 10, SEC, top. But look, how many times your, your Jersey's fields and courts are on television? Social. I know. So the Big 12, yeah, I get it.

I mean, you're at Allen Fieldhouse a lot for KU basketball. I love some of these schools, but like, what? Maybe Lubbock rings more true and relevant. to me than you. I don't know. I don't know. Where would you rank the big 12 among conferences right now, Colin?

Big 10, SEC, because Notre Dame and Miami are surging in football ACC, Big 12's four. Big 12 is four. It's just, you know,

like there's just, there's not a football power in here. Yeah. TCU, I don't know. It's a good basketball. I also just, it is,

it struck me as low to, to be 100% clear. Also, it struck me as like a little, a little tacky. Like, forget like the patch on the jersey. Like that ship has up, but is it literally like the Monster Energy Big 12 conference? Like, do I have to say that every time I say the Big 12? Like, is that welcome back to the Monster Energy Big 12 game of the week. Like, is that what this is going to be? Like, that just, I don't know.

It makes my skin cross. a little bit. No, it does. I, you know, it, I remember the first time I went to a movie theater and there was an ad. And I thought, all right, well, there's a Rubicon we've crossed. I guess I'll just, it's like, I thought that was a popcorn. I guess it, you know, 12 movie reviews and an ad, I'll live with it.

So, and I've gotten used to. Yeah, you get you. Of course, you get used to it. It's just, I don't know. Where on the court at the press conferences, on the jerseys, I'm fine with. But if the conference is a, the whole conference is sponsored by the energy drink, I don't know. I'm sure I'll watch KU Arizona this year. Eating well shouldn't be complicated.

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Welcome to Suite 305, where the group chat comes to life. What a f***? It's like a way to say like, oh, my, oh, my friend, oh, my her mother. What are the . Look, I've ever had to

have to be a lot. Except with my my children, my wife. Uff. Oof. Munch. That incredible.

Yeah, the telenovela. You're the only person I know that loves a yellow starburst. It's horrible. There's no. There's someone. I'd like to collaborate with this person.

This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Coulthura podcast network on the IheartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the Disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that. You're Paul McCartney. It's 1980. You're an ex-beedal.

And you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside yakuza gangsters and for a ridiculous charge. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist Lady Gaga as being accused of doing the unthinkable to, after allegedly stealing her music and style to become famous? And what about that time, Blondie's Debbie Harry? escaped a serial killer. The man who had given her that ride

she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to Discraseland on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let me throw one more thing at you. Yeah, I didn't have much for you. So another story that a story that sort of exploded.

We can end on this. A story that sort of exploded is who gets the next World Cup. And a story came out that FIFA wants to combine Spanish language, English language, and combine the next two World Cups together and one big massive payment. And it's really interesting because obviously Netflix came in and bought the Women's World Cup and Fox has hit it out of the park. And this is nothing against streamers,

but I don't watch, I don't, I don't love streamers and sports right now. I don't love, I really don't. I think Amazon's gotten much better than Netflix, but I don't. I don't love, I don't love, I don't. I think Amazon's gotten much better than Netflix, but I don't love streamers in sports. There is something, I think the broadcast networks all do a better job. It's what they've been doing forever. They understand the kitchen, not just the front of the restaurant. The production's excellent. There's a feel NFL, Major League Baseball, even when baseball goes from like Fox to like a cable network sometimes. I just don't feel it quite rings as true. It doesn't feel as big. But it's interesting because the next two World Cups, the time zones change. Right. One of them's in Saudi Arabia,

meaning it probably ends once again in the lands in the football season, which is problematic for any company, especially ESPN and Fox and NBC, right? So I don't think NBC is going to be in it because of what they spent for the NBA. They're not going to be a bitter. It'll be, you know, Disney, it'll be Fox. It'll be Netflix, like kind of stuff. But I thought to myself, let me throw this analogy at you. as great as the World Cup is and has been. Football's family. You wake up with it every day. You go to bed every night with it. Football is family. World Cups are like the cousin every four years. You rent a lake house in July. You hang out for four weeks. It is awesome. You love your cousins. But then they go away. That if I had a choice, I would take NFL, college football,

major league baseball, that Olympics and the World Cup, and I'm a much bigger World Cup fan than the Olympics, but if you had to make a choice as a network president, there is something about college and pro football and baseball and even NBA, like it's family. It's in your living room every day or eight, ten months out of it. one is a little bit the most awesome family member you don't see regularly but god do you miss them and you can't wait for it and every time they come you're like that's the best month i've had in four years i would choose the family the pro football in the house every day over and it would be a tough choice because i love the world cup yeah but i do think i'd probably land on on the on the the annual stuff.

I don't think not a network executive. I don't think that that would be much of a debate for an American network executive. I think you would 100% choose the NFL. The NFL is just like what makes this whole thing go around. It's the most watched, you know,

telecasts in America every year. It's NFL all the way down. Now, this year, obviously, the World's Cup will crack that code or that list. But again, it's not every year. It's every four years. You know, the World Cup is an amazing event. And I think if it landed on a streamer, it would be a huge test for them and their ability to do it.

And my guess is the technology, you know, it's just going to keep getting better and better and better. Why I would think that a streamer would be at a pretty good position to do it is there's not a lot of, like, game overlap. Like, what I don't like when sports are on streamers is if I want to change to another channel or another game. It's like, I got to log out of that app and then go to my thing. like whatever, but like for single standalone events, I think that they, they would be fine with it. But yeah, I mean, if for an American, just through that prism, it's clearly behind the three that you mentioned, right? And I, it's probably behind the NBA, too, just in terms of like volume of games. You want, you want, you want, you want quantity of live sports rights for your, for your partner.

I would think it would be behind all of them for. Well, and the next two world cuts. And the fact that the time zones of the games air in the middle of the night and the one in Saudi Arabia that would happen in like October. Like, of course, that makes it way less, less value. Well, we even see now a day game and a night game. The numbers are half. Like the reality is the next two World Cups, the time zones all shift. And they're problematic for the American consumer.

I do love it, though. Like, I don't want to add any, like, it's not my money to spend. And I've really liked me. Oh, I love the World Cup. Best tune of my career. And like, I've loved being like, I haven't gotten one ticket to one game. I haven't gone to it. But like I just like being a part of it.

Like, just like talking about it and promoting it and having the countdown clocks on the show and like feeling like it's a big deal to the network. It's been, it's been really, really fun. And just from our business, we haven't had to talk much NFL Top 100 list yet. Like, it's been really nice to have like a thing in the full. football off season that feels big and matters and gets ratings and that people care about. I was asking my boss the other day about like, how are the ratings for these shows? And they're like, they're good. Like, really?

They're like, yeah, absolutely. I'm doing full hours on the World Cup. And everyone's like, yeah, rating was solid. Rating was strong. Rating went up. I'm like, awesome. Great. Let's keep it up.

No, I think one of the things when you're a talk show host that I think about a lot is I never wanted to work at the NFL network. Nothing against it. No interest. I want to talk about what I want to talk about. And there are days I want to talk about Otani and baseball. I mean, there are day, I've said this before, there are days, nights. I will choose a baseball playoff game over a Monday or Thursday night football game. Like I want to watch a big NLCS, ALCS World Series game. They're just, they're just these big brands and it feels really special. Nothing against Thursday night football or Monday night football. But I will say this is the most fun I've ever had in June. I do think this felt different. And when the WNBA and Caitlin Clark exploded for a year, it doesn't feel as big now, she was injured, but it gave me like 12 segments that were really fascinating. And I've always felt like I take big chunks of time off in July and August. And the reason is because I feel like I'm just making up topics. And like this is the only June in the last decade where like every segment has felt worthwhile.

like everything's authentic. I'm interested in every topic. That's not to say that I don't love the NFL, but in July, camp stories, I got three hours to fill. I got to fill it with something. Yeah.

I mean, I make, I go back and forth, the producers all the time. They're like, you know, this person said this about this NFL team. And I'm like,

I don't, I don't care. I love the NFL basically more than anything, like outside of family. But like, I love it. But this person said that Dak Prescott could throw for 5,000 yards this year. Do you want to do a topic?

I'm like, will Dak Prescott? I'm like, no, I don't. I, like, guys, I am much more interested. And I get that the NFL is what drives the bus and all of those things. And it rates the highest and the most people care about it. Again, I'm all for every morsel of like real NFL stuff. But not having to conjure up NFL topics. And, you know, we'll start in a couple of weeks.

But we'll be, you know, camels. will be opening soon and like there will be real things to talk about or at least like like normal fake things to talk about and we'll take some vacation and then football season will be here. I would have the World's Cup every year if I could. It's been fantastic. Oh. No, it's or something like the World's Cup. You know what I mean? Like something like the World's Cup. Because the Olympics, to your point, unless you get a Simone Biles, Michael Phelps like phenomenon type thing, It's really just like, it's so splintered that, like, yeah, maybe we're all rooting for Team USA, but we're not all, like, rooting for the same thing.

Like, there aren't, there aren't, like, big events within the World Cup that, like, drive culture and conversation for three or four weeks. When you watch soccer crowds, it's a lot of young men. It's a lot of sports fans. When you watch the Olympics, it does very well with older women who aren't necessarily watching to the level of younger men sports. It's a lot of human interest stories. It's a lot of, you know, that's what the Olympics has always been.

Sports I don't care about. People I don't know. But the late Rune Arledge made me care about them. Well, I know the United States Men's National Team because it's the same guys that were in the last one. They're coming back for the next one. And I like watching international soccer because it's sports. Like, it's not lose. It's not a device.

It's the athlete. Yeah, it's a team game. I always marvel at the Olympic broadcast. I'm always like, I don't care. I'm not interested. And then you turn it on. And within four minutes, you're like, I really hope the person in lane three wins. Like, you know, like, they do an incredible job of like, this is the human interest story.

This is why you should care. This is their backstory. And the race starts. Like, it is an incredible broadcast. But I don't have days, weeks, months of, like, attachment and buildup to it. It's literally just if I choose to turn on the television, which is very different. different than these team sport events. Yeah, the, you know, I always, I always kind of push back, because I think the Fox coverage

has been great. I push back a little bit when, you know, you'll see the kind of predictable print criticism. Well, it's very jingoistic. It's very over the top. And my take is, let's go watch next World Cup Brazilian coverage. I'm guessing it's very pro-Brazilian coverage. Brazil. Like, guys, if you watch the CBC during the Olympics, if you watch NBC during the Olympics, you wrap your arms around your country. It's okay. Like, I think the coverage, we have a lot of

international voices, a lot of British voices. But I was really encouraged. Like, I really liked Carly Lloyd and Stu Holden and Alexi, like holding Pulisic accountable. There was no pandering. Like, I felt that was really a healthy dialogue. Yeah. Listen, obviously, we both work for Fox, but, like, I think that it's been really compelling stuff. And they got star power and they got people from other networks. I mean, Rebecca, Rebecca Lowe is awesome. Like, I have never met her, never spoken to it. But she is a great studio host who clearly knows everything that she's talking about.

She's excellent. And so I just, I think it's been really good. The people on site, the, I like the presentation of, like a desk outside the stadium and inside. I don't know, like, in terms of like, scene setters of the crowds going crazy before they're let in, and then like, you go into the stadium. Like, I know you can't do that for every NFL game because there's just so many of them. But I do think the like, what's put you, it feels like, okay, now I'm in Atlanta. Now I'm in Kansas City.

Now I'm in Seattle. Like, I think it's been great. Can I also defend American fans? I always read this. Oh, the United States standing in Europe is not. Not very good right now. Let me tell you something. American fans have put their arms around Moroccan fans and British fans.

We have been really good hosts, and they've been amazing visitors. Oh, yeah. But they, I mean, if I have to read another story like, Americans are not liked overseas, listen, we are good hosts. We love showing people a good time. Listen, we're having a backyard barbecue. Come on over. We'll show you what it tastes like.

I think the visiting fans have, there's a certain amount of wonderment and just, you know, our big box retail stores. And I also think our fans have been great. You haven't seen, there's no stories about us throwing stuff or being idiots, which you often see in our domestic sports. I think our fans have been, I mean, I've been like proud to be an American. I love our fans and how they've treated all the visitors. I think generally speaking, that stuff is like on like a geopolitical level. And then like when you get to like a human being level, we're not that different. Everybody just wants to like have a good time and have healthy kids and, you know,

raise their family in a good situation. I mean, I live in New York. So I've been around a ton of these World Cup fans. I mean, Norway fans are a blast. Like I was at a Cubs Mets game, hang out, a bunch of Norway fans. They're rowing. They're drinking. They're having a good time.

They're asking about baseball. they're doing whatever. They're rowing through Times Square. My wife's family is from Lawrence, Kansas, where KU is. And they were the host for Algeria. And like, they were doing like, instead of Rock Chalk, Jayhawk, Rock, Rock, Rock, Rock, Chalk, Algeria. The KU band, like, learned the Algerian National Anthem and went to their training complex and was playing it for them before practices. So it's just like, yeah, small towns, big cities. And then the viral videos are hilarious. I think my favorite one is the guy who discovered Popeyes. And he's like, he's like, for $6, you get three pieces of chicken and a biscuit and a drink.

He's like, it's an amazing place. It's just an unbelievably warm. I'm like, this video has 9 million views. It should have 900 million. I'm like, it's the greatest piece of content I've ever seen. And so, yeah, I think I got a human being level. It's all, it's great. You know, Danny, we always talk about how divided we are and what will bring us together.

And once again, it's sports. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, there was a healthy amount of like, you know, I don't think with the balligan decision, I don't think we were tremendously popular amongst some European countries. Let me tell you, the VAR replay in Egypt right now is not going over. That might be the thing that brings us together. You ain't VAR?

We ain't VAR. Awesome. We all can hate it together. Yeah, no, listen, man, sports is a, it's a great unifier, right? There is something to going to a game, something happening, big goal, big shot, big touchdown, big save, whatever, and high-fiving a stranger. It is a great sense of community thing. Like, being at Riggily, the Cubs hitting a home run.

and me turning around and high-fiving a random person is it's an endorphin rush of community that I don't get in a ton of other areas other than sports. I'm sure that people get it in a different way. But I do really love that connection with people. Boy, I thought we were watching history with Messi. It doesn't matter where you're from. You're watching it. You're going, holy shit.

This is the greatest soccer player ever. He's in our country. They're down. Like that moment, I think, encapsulates this World Cup. Like I've said, Fox, they've gotten some breaks. England's good. Argentina's good. Like, Erling Holland is our gronk.

Like, USA, Mexico, Canada, we're all viable. The stars are scoring. And Messi's the best player. You're like, we kind of got, we checked a lot of boxes for the Super Bowl, right? Other than, like, one more game from America, if we were going to get really greedy. And then other than that, it would have been, it's been a perfect World Cup for Fox and for storylines. I don't remember if I told you this last time or if it was somewhere else where I made the point. But it's, this World Cup has felt like NFL teams with NBA stars.

Like the big brands are all winning and performing and playing in good games. Like, Argentina has been in a bunch of good games. Spain's been in good games. England's been in good games. But they don't get upset. Like they almost get upset. but then they advance, so we get into, like, if Cape Verde would have beaten Argentina, it would have been unbelievable.

It would have been the biggest upset in the history of the World Cup, but we would have been robbed of more games of Messi. So it's like we get the best of both worlds. We get this like, like when Cabral scored the second goal for Cape Verde, and he ran into the stands to find his mom and his girlfriend, and I was like, I don't know if he's coming back. I was like, I was like, I think his head exploded. from because like how shocking that moment was.

That is such a great moment. But then Argentina is going to play at least two more games and we get to keep going with Messi. So it's been Mbapé, Holland, Kane, Messi, obviously. It's been, it's been amazing. It's been an easy World's Cup to fall for because the stars that you know have been performing and the countries that you care about have been winning. And the games at the perfect times for the United States consumer. that and that's not what you're going to get in the next two. So it's like, folks, put your arms around it.

The next one's not going to get these numbers. Not everybody's going to stay up late. I'm listening to British fans. The other day, I listened to a British, yeah, it was like a British host or a British, oh, it was Ricky Jervase. It's like, bloody hell. It starts at 9.30. I watched the first half. I went to bed. And I'm like, you're Ricky Jervase. You don't go to a lug nut factory at eight in the morning. You can watch the half. Stay up and watch the game. Honestly, like, you know, if my kid and I don't, like, it was so expensive. Like, I, I didn't go to a game. I kind of wish I did, but I couldn't justify it.

He's, he's six. He won't remember it. Like, I went when I was eight and I have like flashpoint memories of it. Like, but if he's still really into it, like, I'll feel like I'll probably spend the money and fly to Spain. You know, like, it's a, because it is a great thing. And so, like, the next World's Cup, I know the times won't be as. ideal, but that's not bad. Also, just six hour, seven hour flight from New York. It's fine.

And I went to Madrid this last month. I, no, May, late May I went to Madrid with my son. I will tell you, I always thought London was my favorite city. It was like a warm London. Oh, Madrid, Spain is awesome. I love Spain. Best airport I've ever been to. Best food I've ever had. It's. California without some of the California stuff. Like it's that climate. There's shade and trees. I went to the zoo.

It feels like a combination of like, like it's San Diego-esque. Like it feels like San Diego, but not much of a police presence. Great public transportation. Nobody eats dinner till nine. You walk home at 11. Everybody's safe. Coffee, wine everywhere. Octopus is unbelievable.

Go to Madrid. go to Spain. Hey, I'll tell you, you could sell me on doing a week of shows in Spain during the next World Cup if we have. Oh, Colin, I don't have that kind of juice. But if you want to, if you, if you want to, I will come, I will, I will do the shows from, yeah, dispatch. You know what? And I'll bite the bowl. You want to do Madrid. You can dispatch me to Barcelona or Seville. I'll be fine. I'll bite that bullet for you if you need to be in Madrid. So you'll handle Seville. You'll do the, you'll do the San Sebastian game, the afternoon game for me. No problem. You get prime time. You're Colin Coward. Just let me hang out in Barcelona and do the noon kicks. That's not a problem. Whatever you need, buddy. I'm there for you. Danny. Danny Parkins. Good talking. All right, man. Feel better. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, how to If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.

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