The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Reaction to Packers-Raiders, Why Green Bay "Feels discouraged" about Jordan Love

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Colin Cowherd reacts to the Las Vegas Raiders win over the Green Bay Packers on Monday Night Football. Colin shares why he "Feels discouraged" about Jordan Love and if the young Packers QB can be a top tier QB. Later Colin is joined by Tyler Dunne to go more in depth about the Packers loss to the Raiders and if the Packers can bounce back after their upcoming bye week. Colin & Tyler also hit the Bills loss to the Jaguars, if Kenny Pickett is a Franchise QB for the Steelers and why Brock Purdy is having so much success for the San Francisco 49ers. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right. Hi, everybody. Raiders, hold on to beat the Packers in Las Vegas, 17 to 13. Before I get to Ty Dunn, Tyler Dunn at GoLongtD.com and covering the Packers for a long time previously at the Milwaukee Journal now has his own business. You know, I had a couple of observations. You know, I watched Matt. LaFleur, the coach of the Packers. I watch him on the sidelines watching Jordan Love. And it really hit me tonight. He looks like, coach of the Packers looks like, as he watches his young quarterback play. He looks like I did when my kids would pull out of the driveway right after they got their license, I was optimistic but wasn't going to be surprised of something really bad happened,

like a wreck. He doesn't call a game like he has a ton of confidence in Jordan Love. Listen, he's not a tier one guy. He's not going to be Trevor Lawrence, Herbert Mahomes, Burrow. Jalen Hertz, he's not. Get that out of there. Can he be a tier two guy, a Derek Carr, DAC, Cousins? I think it's 50-50.

Take out that Bears game. and even in that game, it was pretty choppy for one half. I don't see a lot of special. A very good source, close to the Packers, who is very connected to many Green Bay Packer players, had told me he didn't see a lot of juice, a lot of special. You know, if he's a tier two guy,

if he's Derek Carr, he's Garoppolo, you who win playoff games, surrounded by the right people. You're not going to carry a franchise. That's not the kind of. talent he is. He wasn't that in high school. He wasn't that in college. I don't think after three years sitting behind Aaron Rogers now playing in his fourth year. I don't think he's that kind of talent. You know, he's got the size and he moves well. I don't think he makes great decisions so far. His last interception, two of his interceptions were really bad. I'll give him a little bit of a break at

the end of the game because you're trying to make a play downfield. But the truth is, had the Raiders gone for it on fourth and one and sealed it up, he wouldn't have gotten the ball back. He wouldn't have gotten the ball back. But there's not a lot to look at for me. You know, again, Romeo Dobbs had a drop on that final drive, unfortunate, but give me a break. Lamar Jackson, you know, yesterday had a couple of drops in the end zone by his receivers. First couple of weeks, Trevor Lawrence, Jags drop six, seven balls per game. Mahomes gets balls dropped, You got to bake that in, right? You got to bake in a few holding calls every game,

baking a few drop passes. That's the reality of NFL football my entire life. So, listen, it's not like he doesn't have the physical ability. He's not Mac Jones. He's not smaller than you like in immobile. He moves. Ball comes off pretty quickly. His accuracy is so-so.

It's not great. It's so-so. But not terrible. He doesn't look overwhelmed. At times he looks a little uncertain. And again, so much of what is attractive about Brock Purdy is his decision-making. Gets rid of it quick to the right spot. Tua gets rid of it quick to the right spot.

You know, tonight, a Raiders team that doesn't create turnovers got three picks. Not great. So the wise guys like the Raiders. I like Green Bay. So did J-Mack. And we were wrong. Let's bring in Ty Dun at go-longtid.com. He's got thought.

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For black people in American history Listen to look back at it On the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts Tyler, I think one of the things I wrote down tonight that concerned me, with Aaron Jones out and not having a ton of success running the ball, at the end of the third quarter,

Jordan Love only had 15 attempts and nine completions. Garoppolo had 18 completions on 27 throws, telling me Josh McDaniels had more confidence in his quarterback than Matt LaFleur had in his. That's what worries me. Again, I'd be okay with 15 throws of Aaron's healthy and Dylan's rolling downhill. But it does look like

that they're calling a pretty conservative game with him. Is that fair? I think so, yeah. I was like, they finally took shots. I think Christian Watson had like two targets middle of the fourth quarter or something like that. Yeah, I just, I said this. It reminds me when my kids pulled out of the driveway

when they first got their license like I was hopeful. But if something bad happened, I wouldn't be shocked. Matt LaFleur looks almost uncertain and kind of tentative with him. Again, 15 pass attempts, nine completions at the end of the third. Listen, two of the picks were bad. The deep ball he's trying to make something happen. I don't want to be impatient. But one of the things, and it's such a crucial part of playing quarterback,

is just quick, decisive decision-making. C.J. Stroud has been really good, really quickly. And C.J. Stroud, game one got Baltimore. I mean, really quick. See it, let it rip. And the seeing it part, Justin Fields has struggled. Zach Wilson has struggled. C.J. Stroud hasn't. Jordan Love feels like a little bit struggling. I can't explain it. Some guys see the field. Some guys don't. C.J. Stroud's almost been remarkable in his ability. I mean, he got not much in camp, Baltimore Ravens opener, defensive coach. First time. play caller get it done kid and you can see he sees the feel when you talk to you know packers and

sometimes anonymously is is what you're seeing surprising or is this kind of what you were told yeah i think that uh they they knew i think they knew there'd be growing pains but didn't it just seemed so disjointed everything like the first or second drive like matt lafleur is chewing out luke musgrave you don't have erin jones which that changes a lot lot. He's your best player. David Bakhtiari. He's done. Romeo Dobbs was invisible for a stretch. Christian Watson had two targets in the middle of the fourth quarter. There's drop. Look at those two deep shots too. The one deep shot to Christian Watson. It looked like Watson might have timed it off a little bit, but it hit his fingertips. Love throws from his 20 to the other 20.

And then he just flat out missed Watson on another deep deep shot. So when you're to your point, when you're not just hitting receivers in rhythm of the offense and spitting the ball out, you've got to be relying on those big plays. So it's a pretty bad mix when you can't get in rhythm and you're not seeing it quickly and you're not hitting those big plays. It just is like a mess of a game. Yeah. And that's the one thing I've said last week on FS 1 or two weeks ago.

The disturbing thing is because he hasn't played much, it feels like it takes him a while to get in rhythm. and you know some guys are ready to go some quarterbacks are very good Brock Purdy very good out of the shoot and other quarterbacks guys that are not as active they just they don't like i feel like jordan's like he like starts a basketball game and it just he needed to be on the stationary bike like he needs to be ready to go and he's out of rhythm which means he lacks a certain confidence the other thing that's a little disturbing is when you have an offensive coach, generally speaking, it's an advantage to have extra time. So they didn't play last Thursday. So they had extra time. So by the way, Detroit

had extra time and played yesterday. And how good did their offense look? It was tricks. It was deception. It was physicality. So the Lions and Ben Johnson with extra time, it was a master's class. The Packers had an extra day. They go from a Thursday to a Monday and completely disjointed and Tyler with an offensive coach. Now, it's different. Defensive coaches tend to be more motivators. It's about blowing stuff up. You know, your Tomlins, your Sean McDermott's. Extra time may not be as crucial. But for offensive coaches, Andy Reid in September, like, I got extra time and a Monday, and that's it, against the Raider team that had struggled to take the ball away?

Like, this is the first time if you're a Packer fan. You kind of come out and you say, this ain't great, right? Like, it's not good. You know, you've got a plotting AJ Dylan, giving you three yards in a cloud of dust. Your top receiver didn't start the season. You're still without Aaron Jones here.

It's on the coach, to your point, to scheme some stuff up. And you see it. Like I don't want to sit here and make excuses. I mean, every team to some extent is dealing with injuries, to the offensive line, to their skill position players.

I mean, look at the Houston Texans. I mean, they're down four starters on the offensive line, but with Bobby Sloick, you know, Green Bay native himself at offensive coordinator. He's plucked from the Shanahan tree. I mean,

everything is in rhythm. And C.J. Stroud is seeing it. It's first read, second read, balls out. I don't know what the problem is. I mean, it's probably a combination of LaFleur and the game plan being pretty uninspiring. You've got to just get the ball to a 6-4 fast dude like Christian Watson on a wide receiver screen. Just give Jordan Love an easy completion.

Get that body that can move fast, rolling downhill. There was none of that. But love has to see the feel better too. You know, I think he'll get it. I think with reps, with starts, with. time, this stuff can be learned because we have seen the Josh Allen's and the Jalen Hertz's improve accuracy, start to see the field better with their private quarterback coaches in the offseason, with their NFL coaches during the season.

It does take time for some guys, but we have seen that play that you kind of referenced earlier where it's like there's a slant, it's open, Jordan Love seems to be looking at it, but he's just not hitting it. He's holding the ball. He's getting sacked. He's trying to make something happen. Steve Calhoun is his private quarterbacks coach since eighth grade. We had him on our podcast to go long.

And I asked him about that play. It was the same thing against Detroit last week. And we saw it against the Vegas Raiders here tonight. And he said, you know, Jordan Love, he's got so much processing. And it's had pre-snap. He's thinking so much through that I think he thinks that he's forgetting. Okay, post-snap. that play that you think is guaranteed to be covered,

that isn't going to be there, everything can change in a flash. And it might be right there and just take your layup. So maybe with more reps, more starts, he starts to make the easy play because they're there. I mean, they are there for the pickings.

Yeah, it's, listen, Garapolo is now 42 and 19 as a starter. And when I watched tonight, one of the notes I wrote down was, for all the limitations of Garapolo, athletically. and he doesn't throw a great deep ball.

Garoppolo very confidently and quickly lets it rip. And he'll throw that ball right on a line right into traffic. He had a couple of big throws tonight. He's 42 and 19. And with Jordan, what I see is uncertainty. He's not quite sure. His accuracy is hit and miss, mostly hit a couple of misses tonight. But I guess my takeaway right now, I said, because he sat for

three years. I'm not giving him two years. I'm going to wait until Thanksgiving. I'll have kind of a feel. It's clearly not a tier one guy. Can he be a Derek Carr, a twoa? Can he be a DAC of cousins? I'm 50-50 on it. I think physically he's got the tools, but so much of this sport is just seeing processing. I watch Zach Wilson. You know, his last couple of starts, it's kind of hopeful. But for two years, I swear, he just couldn't see the field. He just opened stuff, couldn't see it. So you cross your fingers, Jordan Love Packers lose 1713. Okay, so you also,

you're in Buffalo, you wrote a piece on the Bill's Jags. And it's interesting because you cover the Steelers, defensive culture, defensive coach, and the Bill similarly. And I've come to terms with what Buffalo is. So defensive teams and defensive cultures tend to be teams that are very emotional,

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Seattle. You don't get quite the consistency of game plans. I kind of feel like the Rams offense. When Joe Burroughs healthy, Kansas City, I kind of get the same thing. It's an offensive coach. It's choreographed. When I watch these defensive teams

and Buffalo and Pittsburgh come to mind, it just depends on the Sunday. Pittsburgh has been awful or very good. Buffalo's been tremendous or a mess. And I almost think that now is Buffalo's brand. I always said they have the Tyson quality. If they're fighting downhill, if they make the guy wobble early, it's over. They have got an ability to bury you.

But Buffalo from behind, Josh Allen struggles, it's overseas, they're out of sync. Like, it just had a feel. The whole game had to feel like we're just, we want to be. home. This isn't, this doesn't feel. I mean, that's how it felt for me. You covered it. Your thoughts. Yeah. He spent a lot of time over the offseason planning out this trip, right? Consulting with the sports science experts and how does the body clock work. How are you going to adjust to London time? And I believe they flew out Thursday night and woke up for a Friday practice. And they looked like a team sleepwalking on Sunday. I mean, they looked like a team that was completely jet lagged

that wasn't ready, like the Jacksonville Jaguars were, a team that was there, right, the game before and has been playing out there for 12, 13 years. So that's a factor, but it's also an excuse. Like, they've got to win that game. And there's enough blame to go around. We're going to see how much metal Shaw McDermott really has is a defensive mind. When you don't have Tredavius White, you don't have Matt Milano. I think next to Josh Allen and Stefan Diggs,

Milano has been the most indispensable player on that Ross. just every bit worthy of that first team all pro last season. But people here in Western New York have been praising Sean McDermott for H&O. Leslie Frazier was too passive and, you know, he was sitting DB's back. Well, if you think that Sean McDermott didn't have anything to do with the defense the last seven years, well, there's some real estate for you and it's hard to go to buy. He did. But that was the change.

He's more aggressive. What happened at the end of that game? Trevor Lawrence sees that Micah Hyde, an aging safety is one-on-one with Calvin Ridley in the slot. just gives them a signal, sends them up the sideline, burns them 31, 32 yards game over. So that aggressiveness, it can be a good thing, but against these elite quarterbacks, it can come back to bite you.

And it did in that game. So now McDermick doesn't have some studs on defense. They've got no running game. They had like, what, 15 yards rushing from their running backs, not existent. I mean, this is six years now of no running game. Like at some point, this is again, McVeigh.

Shanahan, Mike McDaniel, offensive coaches. They don't go six years without a run game. I mean, Pittsburgh, how many years no run game? Buffalo, how many years no run game? By the way, Dante Scarnikia left for New England. Now Bill Belichick, they've got no run game. Like, I think it's, this is not,

I don't believe in coincidences. The top rated O lines in the NFL are virtually all offensive coaches. And I want to pivot to Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is three and two, which is they feel one and four. Like the fan base is unhappy. You know one of the things that really jumps out to me? I was told for years they didn't like drafting University of Pittsburgh kids because if they didn't make it, they'd have to get rid of them and they share facility, right?

Pittsburgh, the Roonies are just embedded in that community. And they didn't want to draft Pittsburgh kids and cut them or trade them. They're going to keep Kenny Pickett around for years. They're not going to bail on Kenny picket a first round quarterback. They're not going to do it to that kid. And I got to tell you, Ty, I don't see it. I just don't see it. I think there was an era where you could play great defense

and hit one or two big throws over the top. I just don't think this is the era. I think that that's a nine-win team. Let's be honest, their defense will win eight games. It will overwhelm bad quarterbacks. Right? Like it's just, it's just, it's like San Francisco. It's just going to overwhelm Josh Dobbs. So it's just some guys just, you have to be special. I mean, that got overwhelmed yesterday by the Niners defense. So Pittsburgh is going to have a winning record. But I mean, you cover this team. You, you know the personnel.

Like in the building, do you think they think Kenny Pickett's the guy six years no run game? I kind of love Kenny Pickett. You do. I think there's something to a quarter. back who just when everything's on the line steps up to that moment, like wants that moment, even if everything was going wrong. In that Baltimore game, everything was going wrong. I mean, the fire Canada chants were so loud.

Somebody in the stadium put this out there on X that the team pivoted to like a military tribute almost to just try to shut everybody up. It was that bad. And justifiably so. I mean, they just can't really function on offense. stretches and Kenny Pickett looked bad. You know, Aaron throws, not really fine in George Pickens, who's a freak. But give him this, when he had an opportunity late and he did it at Pitt time and time again.

He had an opportunity similar to Trevor Lawrence when he spotted Mike Ahide one-on-one, Calvin Ridley. They see Marlon Humphrey one-on-one over George Pickens. The Ravens are expecting them just to try to inch their way in the field goal range, gives them the audible, sends them deep, delivers. So I feel like there's course. quarterbacks who have that and there's quarterbacks who shrivel in that moment. Those primetime records for the Kirk Cousins and the Daniel Jones, I think there's something to that. Some quarterbacks, they want that moment and some just don't or they don't play well in that moment.

Being around him, people close to him, he genuinely wants it. And I think he does have the ability to raise his own ceiling. I was, is the play calling going to get in his way? The play design going to get in his way. My God, get the ball to Jalen Warren. I don't know why he isn't featured more often. I know it. So they've got to buy a week.

It comes at a good time. They're in first place. I'm a Mike Tom. What apologist, I just feel like what he's built there, it weeds out the week. It's true attrition. They've got players built for December. They could be three and seven, four. They're going to find a way to get to 500.

To your point. can they be more than that? Can they be more than an eight-win team, a nine-win team? I think that the Pickett, Pickens' connection alone can get you there. I think this could be special. One more thing I want to address. You do a podcast with Brett Farv, and you had a conversation about Brock Purdy. Now, I mean, nobody would deny that Kyle Shanahan and those weapons are a humongous advantage.

I mean, let's be honest. If DAC was on the Niners with Dak's confidence, You couldn't have afforded Christian McCaffrey or Fred Warner or probably one of your pass rushers. It would not be the same team. What makes this truly special is you can miss on a tray lance because when you hit on the last guy in the draft, Mr. Irrelevant, they're not, he's a free quarterback for four years. He's literally free. And so you have two Pro Bowl linebackers.

And I mean, it's incredible. Brandon Ayuk has become a one. So it's Ayuk, Debo, Kittle, Christian. It's insane. So I have, I have, where is Dak Prescott? I've seen him with a great O line, a deteriorating O line. I've seen him with Zeke and now just Tony Pollard. I've seen him with Amari and Gallup.

And now I've seen him with CD Lamb. I've seen him, you know, a DAC with Dalton Schultz and CD Lam. And now I just see him with CD Lamb who can, you can roll the coverage over. I don't think it's a great supporting cast. I think they're weak at tight end. I think they're okay at running back. The O line's good. It's not special.

but with Brock Purdy, I've only seen him with a great coach and great weapons. My guess is he's a good quarterback. He's in the B class. Maybe a B minus. I have, but Favre, I mean, what, what does he say? What does he see? Yeah. He loves Brock Purdy, and he brought up a conversation.

He talks to Ron Wolf about twice a month still. Obviously, the Hall of Fame general manager who traded for Brett Favre when everybody thought he was nuts, thought the Packers were nuts, or giving up first round pickup for in his way out of Atlanta. Brett told some stories from those days too. It was it was rough. I mean, he knows he could have been a never was with how he was living.

But Ron Wolf traded for Brett Farv. And, Favre failed as physical. They told him, like, but this condition he had that he'll be out of the league in three years. And Rod Wolf didn't care. He traded for him,

wanted him because he just saw an it factor to him. He knew he was a winner. He knew guys would rally around him, want to play for him, want to fight for him. And watching Brock Purdy, Brett, Brett sees that's the same kind of stuff. The guys just, they elevate their play for him. And it's always hard to put your finger on it because it can sound cliche and corny.

But it matters in pro football. I mean, there are quarterbacks. And Brett has said this too in the NFL when he played. And today, guys don't want to run through a wall for you. I mean, they might say nice things about you in the press, but when it's the fourth quarter, and they don't give that little extra is the way Brett put it. He thinks those 49ers are giving a little something extra for Brock Purdy. And didn't you see that right away in that Miami game?

I mean, when he took over for Garapolo and they're playing Mike McDaniels' offense and they got to have it, boy, everybody just elevated their play for this guy. And he can hit every throw. I mean, Kyle Shanahan is telling him exactly where to throw the ball before the play. He's making those throws. And there is a skill. Like what he lacks in size and athleticism and arm strength and all of that, similar to Tua, you know, he just places that ball in stride to these receivers.

They don't break stride. It's like handing a baton and a four by one. They just keep moving. And as long as he's doing that in this NFC, why can't it win a Super Bowl? Why not? Well, the other advantage is he was a multiple year starter in high school, a four-year starter in college. he's got seven, eight years of starting, right?

That's a lot of snaps. I mean, Kyler Murray comes out one big year. A lot of these guys, you know, that's Kenny Pickett's advantage. He played in the same stadium. He started for years. So, you know, generally the feeling is if you're great, you come out early. I didn't think, I mean, one GM told me Kenny Pickett. He felt like he was at top of the third quarterback.

But Kenny had so many reps. He got the advantage of a great culture, the Steelers, same stadium, just the other side of the locker room. And so I think Kenny Pickett feels fairly comfortable. And when I watch Brock Purdy, that's the word I would use. He feels comfortable. He's taken a ton of snaps. I mean, God, I felt bad for Trey Lance. Trey Lance barely played in college.

Then the COVID year. Then he gets hurt. I mean, the guy barely took snaps in a three-year period. It's like Jordan Love now. I don't see a lot of special. I was told during camp by somebody who I trust that he was fine. There wasn't a lot of wow there. That's kind of what I see.

But let's be honest. like Trey Lange and Jordan Love. They just haven't played games. And so I do feel like, as we pivot back to Jordan Love and wrap it up, I just want to see, I said, give me about 10 games. Like, give me to Thanksgiving. The physical parts are there. That's the good, I mean, I watch Mack Jones. Like, he's slow.

He doesn't really have a second gear. He's not a power thrower. Like, with Mac, it's like white flag. Like, it just feels like it's over. Zach Wilson, I don't think he sees the field particularly well. Even though he's only, he's six to, he feels small, plays hero ball. I don't think any of that stuff with Jordan Love. I just think he's, I think it takes him a long time to get into rhythm.

That's what I see. I totally agree. I mean, he can do the arm angle stuff. Like the play before one of the interceptions, he kind of sidearms it to Musgrave. And it's just so up and down, the very next play, the Raiders go to quarter coverage. Marcus Peters just sits on the route and Love throws it into traffic. it's tipped, it's picked. And even that last drive,

we look at the last three plays, puts it on Romeo Dobbs drop and gets rushed immediately on third and 10. Rolls left, probably could have ran for the first down, but the game just ended, but that's how I'm remembering it, and forces a throw to the end zone. It's just,

this is the kind of stuff you learn with, with more action. He hasn't played for three years, right? You can simulate as much as you can with the Steve Calhoud in California, offseason, offseason, do the same thing with Matt LaFleau.

and go to OTAs when Aaron Rogers isn't there. You can do all that stuff, but there's no substitute for the live bullets. He's getting it, and it's going to be fun. I think Green Bay is just frustrating for Matt LaFleuror to not have Aaron Jones, and now they're not have David Bacchiori. They're clearly hindered around Jordan Love, but like I said, it's no excuse you.

You've got to find a way to function and excel and make the plays in the fourth quarter. I do think that Jordan Love will make enough plays in those fourth quarters to give you that hope in Thanksgiving, right? I think he'll have these moments like he had in that fourth quarter against the Saints that suggests he's got the metal toughness. He's got that stuff that you can't learn and you can't teach. And they can kind of work around that over time. So, okay, here they go.

So it's Broncos on the road, winnable game, Vikings at home, Rams at home, Steelers on the road. Those are winnable games. You face Kenny Pickett. You get Matt Stafford and a Young Rams defense at home, Kirk Cousins at home. Kirk Cousins at home, and right now a mess in Denver on the road. So, I mean, listen, the schedule is not, it's not daunting. There's some young quarterbacks, young teams Rams, teams struggling Broncos.

This is the time. You would hope tonight with extra time, this felt like a W to me. So it's really discouraging. You don't beat a Raider franchise that owes one second from turbulence and chaos. But that's where we stand. And I think, I guess my takeaway on tonight is I still don't know. I thought it was a game on the schedule you should win. Coming off the Thursday game, watching Detroit off a Thursday be so fluid,

watching the Packers so disjointed, that to me feels discouraging. Especially when Josh McDaniels is doing everything in his power to hand you a game on a silver platter. Just go for it. Fourth and short, just go for it. Why are you kicking that field goal? Yeah, it is crazy. the analytics said go for it. And the other thing I thought about is again, it almost,

it was almost Josh McDaniels saying Max Crosby is getting great pressure, and I don't think Jordan Love can beat us. That's what it said to me. That might have been it. You don't do it with Herbert, Lawrence, Mahomes. You don't. But my takeaway was he was, hey, if we missed the field goal, Crosby's getting pressure, Jordan Love,

he doesn't have a lot of experience on the road, late game, driving for a touchdown. I think you make decisions in those situations a lot of times based on who's the quarterback. And that's kind of what it felt like to me. He's like, I don't think Jordan Love can beat me. Two picks. Yeah. You know, two picks.

Hard to argue with that because he had the results. Yep. All right, Ty, good to seeing you. As always, I want to give you a pump up again. Go LongtD.com, his newsletter, go longtd.com. Has the podcast with Brett Farb as well. As always, it's great seeing you. Thanks so much, Colin.

Always love chatting. You bet. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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