The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Rockets BLOW OUT Warriors, Should Rockets Target Giannis? Can Luka Win A Title? Westbrook The “Tone Setter” For Nuggets

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

Colin’s joined by Jason Timpf, host of “Hoops Tonight” to break down all the NBA playoff action! They start with the bevy of blowouts we’ve seen so far, and why the NBA needs to reduce the early rounds from seven games to five (3:15). They debate whether the Rockets should target Giannis and what players they should be willing to part with in order to get him (7:45). They discuss why the Knicks have actually LOST ground to the Celtics (12:30), how Jason Tatum’s leap this season has improved the Celtics (16:30) and why Russell Westbrook has become the “tone setter” for the Denver Nuggets (26:30). Finally, they debate whether Luka Doncic can be a “championship player” despite his weakness on the defensive end of the floor (35:30). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #HoopsTonightSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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She's an outsider to win the French friend. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. The Volume.

Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action-packed live events to gripping behind-the-scenes documentaries to hard-hitting investigative pieces and in-depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to viseTV.com to find your cable channel. Well, usually when we do instant reactions, we have something to urgently react to. but I knew the Warriors were in a little trouble when mid-second quarter, Butler and Curry hadn't scored.

But, you know, this is a bigger point, Jason, is that I've been on this for years. The quality of college basketball is not very good. I mean, the national champion, like, you watch Florida play, a very good college basketball team. They would have seven or eight straight possessions that they were wasted possessions. They didn't run a play. College basketball offensively is a tough watch. That's why almost every good college basketball program lives on defense. I mean, St. John's, Florida, Houston.

Gonzaga is the rare. We're actually better on offense annually than defense. And they do it because they have a great coach and a great system. But you watch it and the ratings are good because of urgency. The NBA quality is insane. But a three-game first round, which had probably never happened. Darryl Morris said, give me a game. first round. But I've always argued, you don't need seven games. If you want to keep it in the

finals for historical symmetry, totally get it. But you don't need seven game first round series. Now, I will say the argument is, well, what about Clippers Nuggets? And my takeaway is, if it goes five or seven, that's a coin flip series. I mean, you can't tell me one team's definitively better. It's almost like the Pistons Knicks. Five or seven, whoever wins wins, I'm not losing sleep. But I thought tonight was a bit embarrassing for the league. Like, it's just a bad look. It's so consistent over the years.

In my series preview for this series, when I picked the Warriors in six, I was like, they're going to get blown out probably in game five. And one of the things that happens when you see, one of the things you see when you root for the same team for over a decade, you become very familiar with their personality. Yeah. And, like, we saw an extremely similar game in Memphis, three years ago in that series where they were up three one, went on the road.

It just got demolished before they came home and closed the deal. It's in, it's, it's just, there's already a natural kind of like urgency swing from side to side in a series after each team wins. You know, like Houston gets game two. You know Golden State's going to come out in game three and just play an amazing game, right? Like, you know, Houston's going to throw a great punch in game four after, after Golden State wins game three, right? but when you have this situation where a team has a 3-1 advantage and they know they have a home close-out

opportunity in the bank, it almost always ends up being kind of a shalacking in these types of situations. And it's happened to the Warriors in the past as well. When they lost to the Lakers in 2023, Lakers took a 3-1 lead. They went to Golden State. Golden State beat them. Then they head back to L.A. and L.A. closes the deal. It's kind of like the natural flow of series. And to your point when you have such a consistency in that regard that just says this is too long. We're wasting too much time here. So I think it's interesting. So Houston is a team that I said this today on FS1 is that Oklahoma City is a similarly young team, but better. And they've got a ton of draft picks. You're not going to leapfrog them, whereas every one of their young players, to me,

has sort of a defined role. Houston has Jalen Green, who, who's athletic, but I still don't know what his offensive game is in the half court. He's just athletic. And so I do think Houston's going to have to take a swing. I think a Kevin Durant fits well. Maybe they get into the, I mean, they may have more than anybody for Janus. But so we were talking about this, Jason McIntyre and I were talking about this. And I said, I would, I would, Houston has told people, amend Thompson, no chance. And it's funny, watching him tonight with five steals in the first half. When I want, I, Watch M.N. Thompson. I absolutely know what he is. He's a physical, tough defense often is the best part of

his game. Hustle. He has a defined, even though he's a kid, he has a defined game. And that's one of the first things I look for. Actually, if Zion could have stayed in shape, I thought he had a very defined game. Like, I knew what he was. Jalen Green, I don't know what he is. And I always feel like, I don't care if it's a talk show host or a basketball player or a politician. If you don't, if you can't kind of, what, what are you? And if I'm struggling with that three years into your political career, it's like, I'm not sure you are anything other than maybe smart or aspirational or driven. So I think, I look at it and I think if they went into the honest sweepstakes,

you'd have to give up two really good players. would you give up Shangoon, Jalen Green, and two firsts? Because I think if I'm Milwaukee, I'm going to have multiple suitors. I'm going to get a Malik, an OG, and four. You know, I don't think the next, you know, I gave up so many firsts for McHale Bridges. Let's just talk Houston. What would Houston give up, in your opinion?

You run the rockets for Janus. Well, first of all, Colin, at the, I'm going to try not to be too insensitive here, but I'll tell you what Jalen Green is. He's salary filler. That's what he is at this point in his career. He has demonstrated through multiple years with Houston that there are certain things that he just hasn't figured out in terms of how to bring consistent winning impact every single game. When he's got his pull-up three-point shot going and he's making good decisions at the rim, he looks like an all-star caliber player that can lift that team to greatness. But two out of three games, he struggles to accomplish those things. And then suddenly the inattentiveness off ball, the poor decision making all that just wrong.

rises to the surface. And so he needs to go somewhere where he can go make mistakes for a while because he just needs a lot of time. Right. And, you know, Amen Thompson to me should be untouchable. I would not give up Amend Thompson for Janus. I think that the only reason I would ever consider giving up a player of Amend Thompson's calibers if I was certain that we would be a runaway favorite the next season. You know, like for instance, if OKC wanted to make a move for Janus, they should be more willing to part with someone like a Jalen Williams, for instance, when you consider the fact that they would immediately become a runaway championship favorite, right? But Houston with Yonis is still like they'd be very good defensively, but it wouldn't be perfect, right?

Right. A men Thompson is the level of prospect that I think has the potential to be like the Scotty Pippen of this era. That's a great call. The most devastating perimeter athlete defensively that we have in the sport. Intimidating. But he has, exactly. but he has a lot more offensive pop than people realize and wait till he starts to piece some of these parts of his game together.

He can handle the ball a little bit. He's got a pretty decent set of moves in one-on-one situations. Once he polishes up, mainly the short-range, mid-range shot-making and adds a little bit of muscle, he's going to be a guy that can easily average 20 points a game in this league very efficiently, potentially more. And he is really a physical, I mean, most young players, Jason are not that physical.

He has a 29 to 33-year-old physicality to him when I watch him play. It's the type of athlete that is most valuable in the modern NBA, which is rangy, but also strong. Because there's a lot of rangey dudes that can get shoved around,

but like there's a, when you can bring physicality and the ability to cover ground, I mean, that's what made Draymond, you know, the best defensive player of this era, is he could cover ground, but he was also big and strong and could win ground battles. And there's just a, there's a, a ton of value there. So like if I was running the rockets, I would literally, I would negotiate earnestly, but I'd get a deal done. And what I mean by that is everything's on the table, but

Amen Thompson. If you want Shang-Goon, Jabari Smith Jr. and Jalen Green will make it happen. You know, like whatever it is you need to do to make it happen because one of the things that Houston has is depth. They just have a lot of good players. They can afford to give up three rotational players for Janus and not be in a situation where they don't have the requisite talent to compete next year. Fubo is my favorite way to watch live sports, NFL, NBA playoffs, MLB, college sports, and more. I love it. They have over 200 live channels, live sports shows, movies, news, and they offer an incredible

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This was my take on the Nix Pistons. Is a year ago, the Pistons were in a rebuild. and the Knicks thought McHale Bridges was going to get them right up next to Boston. And yet five points separates these teams in five games. And my take is they gave up a little too much for McHale Bridges, though I think everybody, myself included, kind of like the deal. But the problem was, when you're talking vis-a-vis Knicks Celtics, is that Jalen Brunson, OG, and McHale Bridges, and Kat, we know what they are.

Tatum made a leap and Peyton Pritchard went from nine a game to the best guy in the league off the bench and so two of the Celtics because Jalen Brown has established what he is. Tatum is playing with a confidence today that we thought he should have been playing with four years ago.

I don't think his skills necessarily that much better. But go look at his first quarter scoring against Orlando. He's a much more aggressive player. And by the way, Steph's been burned by this, is that Steph sometimes defers. Steph's smart, collaborative, a great teammate.

NBA fans, and it's not a criticism, it's a reality. They reward aggressive. Even if it's like over-the-top Westbrook aggressiveness. Like they just, I mean, and Westbrook jumps off the TV. It resonates with people. I mean, just you can't, when he's on the floor, you can't. Okay, Westbrook's right there. That could be a seven-footer that's just, I always said with Andrew Wiggins, is he on the floor?

Is he playing? Does he have, I mean, so my point being is, is that the problem that the Knicks face, and I think they have to swing big, is they thought McAil Bridges really bridge the gap. They were inches behind Boston. Tatum pops, Pritchard pops, and it's like, oh God, they lost ground, actually. So I look at the Knicks and think, let's not waste our time here. Cleveland and Boston both got significantly better. New York is what they, they just have good players. They've got to take a big swing. You know, I think people have missed the point on Boston in a lot of ways in the sense that they look at them as a team that's led by all these big wings that are super versatile.

And I think that was the direction that the Knicks were trying to match. That's right. But it's much more of a team-wide concept of the ability to piece together these lineups where everyone can guard. That's really the foundational concept that makes the Celtics so unbeatable. If you look at it, Mikhail Bridges Ogen, In Inobie, and Josh Hart, in theory, are these three rangy wings that can do a lot of work defensively. But because they're bracketed by these two weak points, there's almost like a diminishing return in having that type of defensive talent because of the way teams can still get them in rotation. Like, it's still the pistons in the half court, Kate Cunningham, bringing Jalen Brunson's man into the action and getting great looks attacking, even though he's got O.G. Ananoby on him. Whereas if you're with the Celtics and you run that exact same thing at a Derek White, good luck.

You run that exact same thing at a Drew Holiday, good luck. And Peyton Pritchard competes his ass off defensively. And so that really is the foundational trait that everybody's missing. It's like you're seeing this situation where the Knicks copied almost on the margins in a way that has a diminishing return because of their bill. They almost would have been better off looking for like waiting and holding their firepower for a better player than putting all their. cards in the McAle Bridges type of basket because McHale Bridges would have been more valuable if Jalen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns were replaced by more versatile defensive-minded stars, and they're just not.

And so I think ultimately it doesn't matter how good your on-ball defender is if I can put him in an action that gets me an advantage. Yeah, I kind of fell for it. I thought McHale Bridges got him close. I didn't think he would be better, but I thought, oh, they'll compete. They could win a game, maybe a second into seven game series or, you know, a, you know, And it's like, no. You know, I will say this about Jason Tatum.

I mean, again, he feasted on Orlando. But this was the best year he's had as a pro. He had a really, really good year. Is that, and we do this sometimes in society, attention with all these media platforms, attention is a currency. And Jason isn't an attention seeker. And it probably makes him a much more balanced human. And I'm watching this post game last night.

If you told me he ran a tech company or you're like, oh, yeah, he's a professor at the local college. I would be like, yeah, he comes up and he's thoughtful and he's got interesting pace when he talks. And none of it's, I just, my takeaway is he's got the personality in some ways of just like a great friend or just a guy you'd want in a band. It's like he's thoughtful. And the truth is, pro athletes are sometimes delusionally, delusionally confident. And it's sometimes it works. Like you read, I remember reading the book, the three-ring circus on the Kobe Shack stuff from Jeff Perlman.

And like, I love Kobe, but oh, good, good, Lord, he was a lot. I mean, he was 17, 18, 19. You're like, this guy's obnoxious. He'd be the, you know, it's the guy that you never could depend on to take you to the airport, you know. But it's like, that's sort of what, that's sort of what made him great, like that obnoxiousness. So I just look at Tatum and I think sometimes am I punishing him because he's so patient, thoughtful, and collaborative. I mean, I feel like now when I look at him and I'm like, hey, he'd just be the best teammate, right? I think that it's okay to change our

opinion based on new information. And what I mean by that is, Jason Tatum in his inconsistent level of aggression in his lack of top end was a legitimate part of why they struggled over the years. And then last year, with an overwhelming talent advantage, they made it through the East, and Tatum contributed in a big way, especially with his defensive versatility

in his playmaking in the half court. But he didn't show that superstar upside in that playoff run. And so I think this is the first time, really, that I'm watching Jason Tatum and I'm watching him from start to finish through a playoff series command things in a way. Yeah. With a level of aggression,

with the same level of versatility showed in recent years, but also bringing the high-end scoring pop. Colin, he had three straight 35-point games. He had two total in the entire playoff run last year. Like, this is, like, it's okay for us to be like, Tatum is growing up into, like, I don't think he was a top-tier superstar until this year.

Now I think he is. Exactly how I feel. And I think it's okay. I think it's okay to be like he's growing into the player that some people thought he was and I disagreed for a while. And now I'm there where it's like it's the versatility and it's the top end. Like the big one for me, it's like game four. And I'm watching the difference in the maturity with the way that he's attacking switches against guards down the stretch against Orlando while Palo is not getting good shots doing the exact same thing on the other end of the floor. And I'm like, oh, it's like, it reminds me.

me of the old days when I'd watch LeBron or some other grown-up do it to Tatum when he was the young guy. Like, Tatum is growing into, like, he almost looks like a 30, 31-year-old star as a 26-27-year-old star because he's got so much experience in these big moments over the years. But it's a combination of two things, Colin. You mentioned it. This is a huge piece, the confidence. There is a calm, cool, and collected demeanor that he has in the half court now that he just didn't have in the past. That, to me, is part of his growth.

second piece of it, he finally brought along this shopmaking piece, which was so inconsistent for him over the years. He had it in the past, but he wasn't as big and strong and versatile. Then he got big strong and versatile, but he didn't have the shot making. Now he has both, and he's confident, and he looks like a top three player in the NBA right now. Boxing's biggest weekend is here in Draft King's Sportsbooks heating up. It all kicks off Friday in Times Square. Ryan Garcia, Devin Haney, and Teofimo Lopez light up New York City. Then on Saturday, the King's Returns. Canelo Alvarez is back on DeZone pay-per-view. And Sunday,

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Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jench and win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

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Okay, I have to mention this. as I've always said in our business and you're in this business is I'm not it's not flip-flopping. If you give me new stuff, I'll have a new opinion. I have never liked six four and under players Derek Rose, John Wall, Westbrook, that can't, aren't pure shooters. Nash, Curry, little guys don't lead the titles anyway, historically. Curry's an outlier, Isaiah Thomas. both, by the way, really good perimeter shooters.

Therefore, when you're six, four, and under and can't, especially with no hand check, you get to the rim, and you get hit by the Redwoods, and you just hit the floor too often. Now, Dwayne Wade had a little bit of this because he was never a gifted outside shooter, but Dwayne was built like a running back. I mean, he looks like an NFL player.

So I was always like with Westbrook, I'm like, listen, man, this is just, you know, it just doesn't work for me. But I watched him last night, and I thought he was last night, the tone setter of every great player in that game, is that Jamal Murray would have an amazing second half. Yokic was off. I never trust Gordon or Porter offensively, although I really love Gordon as a player. He is so relentless that he almost makes teammates guilty if they don't play with energy. Like, I mean, you can see why, like Hardin and Westbrook, they're good. buddies, they go to Houston. They didn't get along. And I think part of it was Westbrook is like,

bro, I know you were out last night, but you can't bring that last game for the Clippers. I mean, Harden might as well have been a hologram. I mean, he was invisible. But I watched Westbrook and I think all these years later, what I appreciate about him is he plays so hard, he almost forces you as a teammate to play harder. Because you and I know this, some nights, This is asking a lot. 82 games, playoffs. I mean, Yokic last night just doesn't have it. And I was like kind of blown away by Westbrook last night

and this new found ability to hit a three. But his energy was just ridiculous last night in the first half. Yeah, it's infectious. I'm so glad you said it like that because I've always felt that way in team basketball. Like when there is somebody on your team that is busting his ass on defense, you look like an idiot if you're out there next to him not doing the same thing. It screams on film.

And like, trust me, like, these film sessions, like, I remember when I was in college, like, it's embarrassing when you're sitting in the room and you're not doing your job. Like, and the coach is pausing the screen and, like, you're jogging back in transition defense and he's standing up there pointing at you in front of your teammates. Like, it laziness stands out on the TV. It stands out in film. It especially stands out juxtaposed with an energy bunny. and like that there's a ton of value there.

I, you know, I've like really grown to appreciate Russell Westbrook in this phase of his career in a way that I did it in the past. Yep. A couple different things. He is a guy that his motor and physicality actually translates in the postseason really well because he's a very physical player. So like, and we've seen so many examples of this in NBA history, the big, strong athlete who plays hard just has a lot of utility when it's a rock fight, when it's like,

super, super physical. During the regular season with the Lakers, there was just so much time where he was asked to do more than he was capable of. But as this has shifted towards him being in a smaller role, he's polished up his jump shooting, like you mentioned earlier, like he put in work behind the scenes. He understood, oh, if I'm going to stay in this league, I'm going to need to be able to hit a corner three. And so he's put in a lot of work behind the scenes. The second piece of it, finding a fit that works. So for instance, Yolkich, we've talked about this on the show before, or inverts your spacing. He brings the center away from the basket.

That makes it so there's fewer redwoods around the basket. And so Russ had a layup missing problem over the years. And he's missing fewer layups in Denver because he's getting easier cuts right around the rim. And so when you combine the little bit of corner three point shooting, the ability to finish because of the lack of congestion under the rim with the Yokic team, and then you add to it just the way his physicality translates to the playoffs,

he's become a very useful player for the Nuggets now, like a flat out important player in the championship goals. No question. And I know this isn't the be all and all. But there is something about when you turn a television on and you come into the second quarter, the players that add something you can usually spot in like two possessions. Like you're like, oh, you like, I'm in Thompson's a great example. You're like, shit, man, that dude is.

physical. He's an intimidating presence. Obviously, great scores almost all have that. Russell Westbrook jumps through the TV screen. He is just straight gin on the rocks. It's like, pow, it hits you. It's like, who's this guy? Like, cutting and Jimmy Butler's got that to when he's really into it. It's like, dude, who is? Like, when you're a pro athlete and can kind of intimidate other pro athletes and it's a man's got it, Butler's got it, Russell's got it. No. And, you know, it's funny, watching Westbrook, I'm thinking, could he have always shot threes like this? He's now shooting him because he's probably a little less, you know, I mean, everybody comes down a little bit athletically and he was so hyper athletic. But it is amazing to me to watch him shoot threes.

I don't know if the shooting style has changed. But last night, I'm like, it looked smooth. It looked confident and comfortable. He's more compact. There's less wasted motion. He's getting good energy transfer. Like, it's straight up and down. There's no hitch. I think taking more corner threes has been really big for him because it just takes that little extra bit of distance off. But at the end of the day, it's work. It's repetition. I mean, Aaron Gordon. Aaron Gordon is now like a legitimately good three-point shooter. You want to know how he built a gym at his house and he shot hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of shots for years and years to turn himself into this kind of player. And Aaron Gordon has now transformed himself into a player that kind of changes the future of the nuggets because of his ability to shoot the three really, really well. One last thing I wanted to say on the Russell Westbrook thing, which I think is fascinating. The James Harden juxtaposition is crazy to me because, you know, there is like levels to competitive fire. Right.

Like I'm not going to sit here and say James Harden wasn't playing hard because, you know, he was guarding Yokich for parts of the game. he was a big part of the way their defensive scheme was set up to keep Zubots on the backline. But like there was such a palpable difference in intensity. Set Westbrook aside for a second. Look at Yokic yelling and screaming. Look at the way he acted in game two when his team fell apart. When he made a scene on the sideline ripping those guys a new one. There's a level of it.

He's screaming at the right. There's like a light in his eyes. It's hard to explain like an intensity in his eyes as a competitor in that game. And James Harden looked half asleep. and it's weird because like I think part of it stems from the way that over the course of a series coaches start to scout out your pet actions. They found the coverage that works best at that point in the series. The on-ball defender, in this case Christian Brown, has been eye to eye with James Harden so many times now in this series

that he's starting to pick up on some of his tips and the way that he likes to set up his moves. And you start sitting on that same left-to-right crossover, right-to-left crossover a bunch of times. it starts to take on a resemblance for you, and you can start to pick up on those cues and be ahead of things. And it's always right around this time, Colin, right around game five, game six, and a coin flip type of series that you see, as things get really hard for Hardin,

he kind of just like relaxes. And with Yokic, he goes four for 13 last night, but he's the best player on the floor because he's just super intense and he's hyper-focused on every advantage, on every possession, because he knows what it takes. Yeah, it's like Stephen Adams, isn't it, his class. But the other night, I'm watching Stephen Adams for Houston. I'm like, Christ,

he's their most consistent player. Like, he's just, I think, I think, and I love players like that. Now it's time for power players brought to you by BMW, the ultimate driving machine. And today's power player is Jamal Murray, who gave us an electrifying performance in the Nuggets Game 5 win over the Clippers. Wow, knocked down eight threes, dropped 43 points. What a second half. His highest total since the Disney World pandemic bubble. If Jamal Murray continues, shoot like this, he and Yokic and the Nuggets could be on their way to hoisting another Larry O'Brien trophy. So what is it that sets apart these power players from the rest? Bottom line, it's their attention to detail, innovative playing styles, and relentless drive for performing

at the highest level. The same goes for BMWIX. Everything you love about the ultimate driving machine, electrify. It's not just scoring. By the way, before we close this out, because we're going to both go watch the Laker game, we got into this discussion. We got into this discussion today, the Mavericks shouldn't have traded Luca. But, and Jack Lowe was talking about this on the ringer, is that I would never trade Mahomes, Alan Lamar Jackson, but I would now take a call on Joe Burrow because of two major injuries. I would take a call. I'm not looking to trade him. I would take a call on Jalen Hertz, who I still think small and okay in the pocket. But there are players, you know, like LeBron and his prime, got you guaranteed finals, MJ got you guaranteed

titles, Kareem got you titles. In Lucas Prime, he guarantees you buckets. And those are great. But there is a difference between the LeBron and his prime. And I think now, he'll be in better shape next year. The Lakers won the trade. I'm not in any way insinuating. They didn't crush it. But I think this little peak at at Luca, when you, let's face it, when he's on your team, you just watch him more. Even if you love the NBA, you watch him more. Can you look at him now and you watch as much NBA as anybody? But is there a part of you, even 10% that goes, I get Houston, I get Dallas and Nico taking the call.

So just because there is a reason to do something doesn't mean it's reason enough. And like, I see the reason. Like, Colin, I'm, I don't want to be overly critical of Luca here because it is tough to come into a team right in the middle of the season and to do all of the things that he's being asked to do. But let me just pause it. Like, let me just present it like this. If Luca outplays Ant, do the Lakers win the series?

Let me give you one more staff before you answer. Literally, the last game, Ant was like six of seven against him. So I think that is, they don't put Luca on Ant a ton because for obvious reason. So I'm not sure what the answer is to that. So in the fourth quarter in this series, which is where the games have been decided. Yes. And by the way, Minnesota was in these close games all year long. I mean, so it's like that is who they're not pretty enough offensively to blow good teams out.

They're in all their games look like this. Luca has five made field goals and one assist in the fourth quarter in the series. Ant has 10 made field goals and seven assists in the fourth quarter in the series. He has dramatically outpaced Luca's output when the games have been on the line late. Luca is shooting 5 for 17 in the fourth quarter in the series, and he looks blatantly exhausted every single time down the stretch of these games. There's been so much focus on the fact that he had to play 24 straight minutes. You know who else played 24 straight minutes to end that game?

Anthony Edwards. He looked fantastic. Julius Randall played 23 and a half of the 24 available minutes. He looked fantastic. He's guarding LeBron, grabbing rebounds, doing all that kind of stuff. LeBron, who's 40 years old, had three of the most absurd defensive plays I've seen. Like, LeBron almost single-handedly stole that game with defense. Yeah, the DeVincenzo Block and the Fiddy Smith shot on the other end.

Yeah, and then he stripped Nas Reid on the very next possession, got another stop. And then he did strip Anthony Edwards on what was kind of an iffy call. It was kind of already slipping when he was like it, but it was good defense on that play. The point being, like, there were four stars in that game that all played. basically the entire second half. Three of them looked like they were spry. For the record, they're all better athletes. I'm not expecting Luca to be out there flying around like a 6-8 freak athlete in those situations, but I would expect him to look like Luca. I would expect him to look like Luca. And the bottom line is, is every single time a game has been hanging in

the balance in this series late, Ant has looked like Ant, and Luca hasn't. And the wolves have immediately taken control and won the series. And so I don't think it's negotiable at all at this point, whether or not Lucas conditioning is standing in the way of whether or not they could have won the series. The Lakers controlled the first three quarters. They are capable of beating this team

and in the big of like for instance, I saw some criticism of LeBron for having zero points. For the record, LeBron does deserve some criticism. He had a bad turnover late. I didn't like the three he took off the left wing. Zero points like find a way to score something, but he only took two shots in that fourth quarter. You know why? Because

this team has a construct. The construct is we need Luca to create offense for us. That's his one job. This is one job. Everyone else, like, LeBron's job on this team is to be Dremont Green on the other end of the floor, you know? And like, yes, LeBron could have and should have done more, but I left that game very disappointed because I felt like Luca when the series was hanging in the balance didn't even look remotely like himself. If he makes that layup against Nas Reid, which by the way is just maybe a little bit more conditioned athlete than he is right now. Doesn't even have to be in peak condition.

Just in good enough shape to get the lift, to get that ball up off the backboard, they win the series, they win the game. It's two-two. But instead he smoked it and then didn't get back in transition defense and left Nasreed open. He hit a three and all of a seven-point game was a two-point game. Right, right. So like, I am a huge believer in Luca. I genuinely think he could be the best player in the league.

There's a version of this if he gets in shape where he is the best. best combination of scoring and playmaking talent in the NBA after Yokic ages out. And if he is, and he also gets in good shape and becomes just an above average defensive player, that's the best basketball player in the world. It's an achievable outcome for him. He just has to put in the work behind the scenes. And by the way, it's not too late. Maybe he can flip the script, but the Lakers are not winning tonight and Friday and Sunday unless Luca Donchich outplays Anthony Edwards. And he has to win that matchup. Yeah. No, I think that's really well put, is that And listen, it's just, years ago I said, and I got so much pushback, I said, he's a better

version of Carmelo. He's a better version. There's no question. But Carmelo is one of the great, I mean, one of the great offensive talents we've seen in 15 years. Like, he was an absolute bucket against every defender in the league. And the truth is so is Luca. But I say this. most great players, at least for about a seven-year window in their prime, were great defenders.

Now, you can be Byrd and Steph where you're trying really hard, but you're limited. That's also okay in the locker room. But mailing it in sends a message. Harden, Luca, Mello, it sends a message. Like, you guys take it from here. And, you know, a lot of times in the NBA, you don't face a profound offensive player on the other end. but when you and aunt are matching up and ants this ascending dynamic player

that you can't take your eyes off, you notice like Lucas' defense is noticeably awful. And I think it was well said by you. We can give Ant some credit. We can give Anselm credit to like Colin. Like he has been so, so, so incredibly good in this series. He's growing before our eyes. You said the other day that he's the best young player in the league.

I 100% agree. I think he's the fifth best player in the world right now. Like he's playing unbelievable basketball. think we've been looking because of the emergence of great international players, which I do not thinks bad for the league. Shohei Otani, I will argue forever, is great for baseball. I don't care. But I think Tatum and Ant have emerged as the guys. I think it's indisputable. And this, we're seeing it in real time, one in the east, one in the West. It's not deniable. Because they're

on the floor with other good players. Ban Cairo has been up and down. Luca looks overmatched. Like when you can put great players on them and you're like, oh wow. Yeah, they've separated. And so it's good for the NBA. I don't think it's necessary to have a domestic face of the league. It helps. It's something, right? Jason, great stuff.

Let's go watch the Lakers. Yep. See you next week, Colin. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

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