The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Rory McIlroy Stories: The Masters Win, Historical Rank, Tiger Woods

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

Colin is joined by sportswriter & author Alan Shipnuck who just released his newest book “Rory” They start with Rory McIlroy’s evolution and why he became a bit testier and wears his emotions on his sleeve more now that he’s later in his career. They discuss how to best categorize Rory’s career, and Alan explains why it’s been a play with three acts, and that Rory is still in his prime with his best golf likely still ahead of him (4:00). They talk about how Rory’s personal life lands someone in the middle between Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson, and why Rory is more authentic than both of them and why Tiger & Phil would likely trade their career & life for Rory’s (10:00).  They discuss Rory’s beef with Alan stemming from his lack of control over the narrative of the book and how they eventually resolved it (14:30).  They preview Rory’s chances of repeating at The Masters and what to expect with him now that the pressure of winning the tournament is off his shoulders (20:00).  They revisit Rory’s meteoric rise in his late teens to early twenties, his bouts with homesickness as he traveled the world and how he handled superstardom and a high-profile divorce at a young age (25:00). They also discuss why Rory became the face of the anti-LIV golf movement and why his upbringing contributed to that sense of loyalty to the PGA Tour (29:00). Finally,  they break down why Rory is the most popular non-American golfer at American tournaments (32:30), what made his Masters win last year so unforgettable and whether can achieve his goal of winning 9 majors (36:00).  (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IH

Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know.

Listen to Help from Hippocrite Wednesdays on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor American beverage. If you think about some of the most iconic drinks in the country, the ones you grab at a barbecue, the ones you raise to celebrate your team that have been part of your story for decades, Coke, Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, there's something people don't always think about. The companies behind those brands are still making their drinks right here in the U.S. While there's a lot of talk about bringing manufacturing back, America's beverage companies never left. They're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometown. So, 275,000 men and women across all 50 states, real jobs, good paying jobs, the kind of jobs you can raise a family on.

So more than 100 years, those brands have been part of everyday lives and they're still here, still investing, still operating in communities around the country. So if you care about strong local economies and companies that walk the walk, check out the good work. and what they're doing at we deliver for America.org. Well, Alan Shepnuck has been a go-to author for me when I want to read about golf. He wrote Rory just finished it. The Heartache and Triumph of Golf's Most Human Superstar. It is available now. I went into the book with one idea about what Rory McElroy was,

and a third of the way through the book, I was learning things I did not know before. And if you're going to watch the Masters this weekend, and you know, you've got some time, you're going to be in front of the TV. I strongly suggest buying the book. Rory, the heartache and triumph of golf's most human superstar. He is also the author of 10 books.

The one about Phil was so fascinating, because I told you before, I went into that book. And I think the comp I said is when Oliver Stone made Wall Street, he didn't like, he didn't want to make Gordon Gecko a likable character, but it translated to so many young men who wanted to be Wall Street brokers because of the movie. And I read your Phil book, and I'm like, actually, he's just authentically lobsided and at times unkept and out of control. I liked Phil more, which I'm sure, I don't think you cared either way, but obviously.

But with Rory, I went in liking him. And I've got to be honest, some of this behavior. And maybe it's just, maybe it's the way golfers are because they are owners and operators of their business. I mean, they may hire a manager, but they're largely running their operation. Would it be fair to say that Rory McElroy's personality as he's aged got a little testier, a little more defensive, and it became what great golfers do to protect themselves? I think that's very fair. He certainly became more polarizing.

but even as all that was happening, he still remained emotionally available in a way that very, very few athletes are. You know, Rory lets you into his heart. There's an impetuousness there. You see it on the golf course. You see it in the press room. You see it in his love life, his business life. That's just who he is.

And I think he shares that a little bit with Phil. He doesn't have the same kind of demons that Phil does. But it's ironic because Rory, you know, he venerated Tiger as a golfer tiger was. was a very, he was averse to mistakes and he was very budded up as a golfer. Rory plays a game a lot more like Phil. And so it's funny how the paths diverged. But that's part of why I wanted to write a book about Rory, because I would say five years ago, he was sort of universally beloved.

He was his cute little leprechaun character who everybody enjoyed. And he was kind of, kind of had a sweetness about him. And he has gotten more interesting. He was at the center of the storm of the, of this battle for the soul of golf between the PJ Tour. He made it very personal. He was the biggest troll in the whole operation. He's taken on a lot of tough issues, whether it was the Olympics, whether it was the

Ritter Cup. Rory has just, he's not afraid to hold back. He tells you what he's feeling at all times. Now, sometimes he will walk it back. He will regret it. But even that I give him credit for because it's hard to say. in public life, he made a mistake. And, you know, he'll do that.

He'll say, I thought about it, and I changed my mind. So you're right, he's become a spike here, but I still think he's a very appealing character. And I think the reason he resonates with fans is because there's an openness and unguardness that's very rare in a stark contrast, you know, to Tiger. Yeah, I always think Tiger became even more likable. I think he was worshipped early, but Tiger's last Masters was the one that touched me because he was vulnerable. He was flawed. And I felt the same way when Rory 17th try won the Masters. I don't know if I've ever, not only did I watch every shot, I canceled everything I had to do for three days. I just lived in front of a TV. And Rory's so fascinating because there are those who would say he didn't win a major in his prime for it was 11 years, yet he had four majors by 25. How do we categorize this morning, this afternoon, his career? So, you know, I'm not a playwright, but I think there's three acts

to Rory's career. And, you know, act one is he's this phenom. He's this boy wonder. He's this prodigy. And he wins all those majors, like you said, he gets the number one. And he has the world in the palm of his hand. And, you know, Act two. is this long, challenging quest to fulfill his destiny, to win the Masters, to be the greatest player of his generation, to find peace on and off the golf course, to wrestle with the complications of adult life. And, you know, him winning the Masters and then what happened to the rider cup, that drops the curtain on Act 2. And so to me, it's the perfect time to bring the book out because we can look at how we got here. And then there's this tantalizing, like, look ahead

and projecting forward what we might see. And I think that Rory is very squarely in his crime and that some of his best golf is probably still in front of him because he has been so unburdened. And I'm here in Augusta, watching him swan around Augusta National in his green jacket, nobody's ever had more fun being defending champ. He's at the women's amateur. He's at the drive chip and putt.

He's holding court on the balcony of the clubhouse. And there is a lightness of being to Rory that we've never seen here. He was always on a knife's edge master's week. And he looks so happy and so content. And I would not be the tiniest bit surprised if he goes out and shoot 62 in the first round. And because it's going to be the easiest round of golf he's ever played at Augusta National. It might be the most fun round of golf his entire life because all the pressure is off. And he has fulfilled his destiny.

He's a grand slam winner. he's done something only five other men have ever done. He's in the Pantheon forever. And now he can keep chasing because Rory cares deeply about his place in history. And he's the crown jewels. He wants to win an open at St. Andrews. He wants to win a U.S. Open at Pebble Beats. And he does not want to be a one-time Masters champion.

There's a lot of those guys, whether Charles Schwartzel or Trevor Irman or Danny Willett, they won the Masters and they never really did anything after that. That is not Rory's destiny. He wants to win multiple jackets. He wants to go back to back. He wants to put his stamp on this tournament forever. So he's not done. And I think it's going to be really fun to watch the fireworks for the next, you know, portion of his career. You know, Tiger, because of his upbringing, was almost robotic socially. And then because of that, He kind of sometimes inappropriately, oftentimes inappropriately, exploded socially and did things that were just not all right with the sports world and with his family.

Phil was the opposite. Phil lived large at Arizona State. Could I categorize Rory as a little bit of both? He had some of the robotics, the wrong word. a very, very aware of ascension, legacy, and greatness like, like Tiger. And he wasn't going to let anything get in the way with it. But like Phil, he's a good-looking guy. He's well-built.

He's, you know, he's got money. He liked to live the life. That he's a little bit of a tiger, you know, aspirational. I mean, Phil almost at times had so much fun. You worried about if he was throwing this thing at times. way, was he really just throwing with risky play? I feel Rory's more, less emotionally remote than Tiger, but more under control than Phil. Is that a decent?

Yes, I like that. It's easy to think of them together because there's no doubt that the most popular players of the last 30 plus years are Tiger, Phil, and Rory. Now, two of them have had their lives and their careers sidetracked by addiction by scandal, by greed, by vice. And Rory has somehow, he's wobbled a little bit. He's wavered a little, but he's managed to maintain his dignity. And he's moved through the world with a certain ease and a certain grace.

And that's why people are endeared to him because he's not a maniac like Phil. He's not a robot like tiger. And, you know, Roy likes to finder things in life. he has the jets and the mrs and the watches and his dad always has a fancy watch like but you know deep down they're a blue collar family from a scrappy little town outside of belfast and they've never forgotten where they've come from and you know rory he's he's close to his parents he talks about their influence all the time his closest friends are all guys he grew up with like they keep it real for him and they love to take the piss as they say over in ireland like

They give him a hard time. And whereas, you know, Phil, Phil could have these, he could be magnanimous and he could say and do the right things. But you never knew if it was real, if it was all an act, it was all puffery. With Rory, you know it's from the heart. And Tiger was an introvert. That was a source of a lot of his awkwardness. He didn't like crowds, people.

Yes. He was never comfortable in this role that was thrust upon him. Rory loves people. He's an entertainer. When you see him at dinner, he's always got 10 people around him. He's always making them laugh. They'll always pick up the check. He's just good company.

And so when you look at them as a trio, I think, you know, even though Tiger has all the trophies and, you know, fills one more tournaments in Rory, I think both of them would gladly trade lives with Rory, who is universally beloved and respected. And his body's not smashed up. He's not a victim of these large-scale controversies. He hasn't been arrested. He hasn't been investigated for insider trading. Like, he's just, it's a life well lived. And to grow up in the white hot spotlight as he did, I think it's the book, I think, has a feel-good tenor to it.

And that was honestly something I wanted because I don't want to write the same thing over and over. Like, the Mickelson book was super controversial. The follow-up, live and let die was very overheated and bitchy. Like, I don't want to repeat myself. And I was partly, I think, why I was. drawn to Rory because it is a feel-good story. And I think it's okay to celebrate him and the way he's lived his life. Yeah, I mean, there's a moment where his dad calls Jack Nicholas Jack. And he's like,

it's Mr. Nicholas. Like there's a reverence toward the history of golf. But there is also a moment where you're on the driving range. And this is where I was startled. I was like, okay, I don't like Rory. What is good? He's screaming at my guy, Alan. And so, And again, it's a moment in time where you're just off, I think if I recall with his agent or who were you with? Yeah, it was his agent. And he sees you and he just comes over and drops the expletive. Take the audience to that. And the healing and you and Rory's relationship now, because it was, I mean, I read that and I thought, wow.

I could picture it. I was just recently a live event, and Brooks Kepka came over and said something nice to me, and I'm like, oh, it's so personal. I thought golfers liked us to watch them. So take the people who haven't read the book yet to that moment. So it was before the second round of the U.S. Open at Oakmont. And I've been working on the book for over a year. And so, of course, it's getting back to Rory.

I'm interviewing all these people. I'm in his hometown. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. And it had just got in his head. And so he, and this was, we all saw after Augusta, he went through this existential crisis. You know, he'd, he'd been chasing this thing for so long. He finally had it.

And he looked around from the top of the mountain and he said, you know, what do I do next? And he was kind of struggling there. And so that was part of it as well. But, and he said, yeah, he looks back and he sees me. And this is 30 minutes before he's going to play in the United States open. And he's getting into this beat with me. And I let it go in the moment. But I waited for him two days later in the parking lot because I wanted to have a philosophical discussion.

And I basically was like, bro, what was that all about? You know, why are you so mad? And he told me it pisses me off. You're making money off my name. But it's not about money. He has plenty of it. And there ain't much money in books. It was just, it was a matter of control.

He controls every aspect of his public life. And he knew he had no such control over this book. And that's very unsettling for a guy in Rory's position. And so that's why he was pushing me away. But there is a happy ending. So, you know, I live in Northern California. I went to the tournament at Pebble Beach a couple months ago, and I gave a couple copies of the book to Rory's manager.

And I told them, I wouldn't give it to you this early if I thought you guys were going to hate it. If you can read it with an open mind, you'll see that there's a lot of affection in this portrait. And despite the way Rory treated me, I'm such a consummate professional that I wrote it with good intentions. And so later that afternoon, Rory came into the press room. and he walked right up to me, shook my hand, said, hey, thanks for the book, you know, looking

forward to reading it. I said, I think you'll like it. And he's like, you know, I'll tell you if I do. And I think that was his sort of public gesture because it was front of the whole press court, tournament officials, PGA tour officials. Like, I think that was his way of apologizing for what happened at Okamont in his own way. And then now you fast forward a few days. It's Sunday night.

Tournament's over. I write my story. The whole place was cleared out at Pebble Beach. Now I'm walking to my car. It's dark. Misty, when I bump into Rory, he's going to the tap room to get a drink, and make a joke about of all the gin joints, you're going to run into me. But he said, you know what? I read the first chapter of the book. He's like, it was funny. It made me laugh. And that has some of this very

spicy material you're talking about. And so I think I'm in a good place with Rory. And on a human level, I appreciate that. But as a biographer, he's not my audience. I don't really care if he likes the book or not. I write it for the fans. And my job is to be an honest broker with the reader and just tell it the way it is and capture the totality of the subject. And, you know, you talked about your feelings reading the fill book. And it was interesting because there was quite a schism on folks who read it. A lot of people had your reaction. Like, he's more real. He's more human to me. I like him more. Yeah. He lost fans, too. He said, you know, they resented the way he treated his catty and all the gambling and this and that. And so,

that told me I might have done an okay job as his biographer because I just laid out a very complex person and let the reader decide. And that was always my goal with Rory. And I told him, I said, I have no agenda. Like, I'm not trying to win or lose fans for you. I just want to tell your story and let the readers decide. And so I think in the final analysis, it's a feel good story because he has this redemption as a player to win the Masters. He goes to Beth Page. It's kind of redeemed as a family man, as a husband, as a human. And we've been along for this whole journey. And so I'm happy if he enjoys it and if he has good feelings around the book, but I care much more about you and the people listening at home because that's what I'm writing it for.

Does he have a chance to win this weekend? How are his last three rounds? 12 rounds? So he had it, he heard, he tweets his back in the gym. He hasn't played in three weeks. He comes in a little rusty. And people have been kind of writing. writing him off. But watching Rory at Augusta National these last few days, he is having the time of his life. And he just looks so unencumbered. Like, I really feel like he's going to mount a very spirited defense. And he's going to be carried along by the goodwill of the fans. You know, he played the hardest round of his entire career last Sunday at the Masters. And I think he's going to step to the first tee and feel so much freedom and so much. joy and so much pride that he did it.

I mean, in my mind, he's almost made himself the favorite with just this, this, this jauntiness that he's carrying himself with. So yeah, he absolutely has a great chance to win. I would actually be surprised if he's not there late on Sunday. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet. What a year they have had. Florida sports books. Springs in the air. That only means one thing. Baseball's back, baby, in full swing.

Hard Rock bet makes it easy to bet on America's pastime in just a couple easy taps. It's not just picking winners. You can bet on home run, strikeouts, whether there's a run scored in the first inning, quick, fast-paced action right out of the gate. If you miss the first pitch, no problem. You can live bet every inning, every at bat all the way to the final out. But maybe you're more into the NBA. That's heating up the playoff pushes here. So Hard Rock bet every night.

There's a shot to build the same game parlay, score a major bucket. You might like the hot hand to drop 30. You know, double double from your big guy. However you draw it up, Hard Rock Bet gives you tons of ways. They have epic same game parlay. So if you're ever late to a tip-op, don't worry, Hard Rock Bet, let you bet live all game long. So sign up today, double your winnings on your first 10 bets, maximum $50. That's right.

Double your winnings in your first 10 bet. So if you would have won $100 bucks in your bet, now it's $200. Download the Hard Rock Bet app today. Get the party started. Payable and bonus bets, not a cash offer offered by the Seminole Tribal Tribal. Florida in Florida, offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital LLC in all her states. Must be 21 plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia to play. Terms and conditions apply.

Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1-888. Admit it. In Indiana, if you or somebody you know has a problem, wants help, call 1-800-9 with it. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. Hey, it's us to Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, name? Huge news. we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make

the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, We break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs.

And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down. on everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the Eye Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. When you're on the outside looking in, you think it's a perfect world. Dating stars, rich.

There's a moment in his teen years when he breaks down. And I think it's poignant and it's telling about kind of who he is. Well, yeah, I mean, there's so much there. that homesick moment, that was really his rookie year on the European tour. And he was only 18 years old. And so he went to Malaysia. He went to Korea. And these places felt so alien to him. He's actually sitting on the edge of his bed eating, you know, pringles and karate. He misses like very poignant, you know, because yeah, it does seem like a glamorous life. But it's not, it's not easy. And it's part of why his caddy is his best friend because it gives him comfort.

you know, nobody's going to tell Roy McElroy how to play golf. He doesn't need some strategist or some hard-ass old guy to tell him what club to hit. Like, that's not what he's looking for. He's looking for comfort and ease and a friendly face as he's traveling in the world. And that's why that partnership with Harry Diamond has been so impactful. But, yeah, I mean, this is a question for a biographer, like how much of a person's, you know, private life should be in the book? and you'd like to say even a public figure deserves a little privacy. That's probably an old-fashioned notion.

But, you know, when he's 21, he starts dating Caroline Wozniakki, who's one tennis player in the world, total babe. And it's like this match made in tabloid heaven. And, you know, Rory's going from his tournaments to her tournaments, to corporate outings, to his tournaments, to his tournaments. And he talks about losing his center, losing the sense of where he's from and who he is. and he starts playing the worst golf of his career. And he comes to this ruthless determination that it's either Caroline or it's golf. And he choose golf, which is his real first love. And the invitations for their wedding have already been mailed out.

And he breaks your heart. He ends the marriage. And then he goes on this historic tear and plays the best golf of his life. So it would be a dereliction of duty as his biographer not to get into all of this. there's a straight line from ending the marriage to winning major championships. And so when the private life spills in between the ropes, when it affects the golf, you can't ignore it. And so that was really the first crisis of his young life.

And I'm sure he has some misgivings about the way he handled it interpersonally, but in the final analysis, he probably made the right choice. You know, same thing, you know, he has these busts up in his business life that, you know, one of them gets extremely contagious. there's lawsuits, for criminations. He has to basically pay these old agent $20 million to go away.

And is Rory, to your question, is Rory going to like the book or not? He's not going to love reliving that, but it's fundamental to who he is, how he got here. He's reorganized his entire business life in an extremely effective manner.

He's making so much money away from golf. He probably forgets to pick up the checks after he wins because it's just a drop in the bucket. And so, like, this has to be part of, of the story. And so, yeah, he's faced setbacks. And that's what makes him interesting. You know, if he was just this boy wonder who won everything and had this linear life, they wouldn't make for a very good book. But it's the challenges. It's the humiliations. It's the heartbreaks. It's the regret. That's what gives the book a beating heart. And it sets up the triumphs and the

victories and the satisfaction and the joy. And you can't have one without the other. As you noted, he was the face of anti-live golf. Is that his childhood telling him to do that? Is it a handler? Is it just at his soul what the PGA means to him? Because it was certainly not a courageous stand, but it was a really defiant stand and one that other notable golfers did not make. What does it come from?

Yeah, Rory has a very strong moral compass. and he was raised. You know, his parents, they recognized they had this special talent, but they never let him get out of line on the golf course, in the classroom. Like, his parents were tough on him. And at the same time,

he was surrounded by love and support. And so he's just had always been kind of a black and white character. There's right and there's wrong. And at the same time, he's a traditionalist. You know, he was raised in a different culture. There's obviously, at the European tour,

they venerate the players who have come before them. And the institution of the European tour, the institution of the PGA tour, mean a lot to Rory. And it has, his legacy is built on these platforms. And he has veneration for the old tournaments, the old courses,

the old time golfers. And so Liv Golf came in and tried to tear all that down. And he was offended. And, and, you know, he had, even three years before Liv arrived,

That was when the Saudis first began their incursion into professional golf. It was this European tour event called the Saudi International. And the first one was held in the winter of 2019. It was only three or four months after Jamal Khashoggi was assassinated and dismembered by the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And the entire Western world was distancing themselves from the Saudis on a business level, on a professional level. The only friends they had turned out to be in professional golf.

The European Tour did not cancel the tournament. And that meant so much to this culture where saving face is so important. And that helped create this momentum that ultimately led to Live Golf. And to make that first tournament a success, they paid unheard of appearance fees. And Brooks Kepka went and Dustin Johnson and Patrick Reed and Bryson and Bill Mickelson, like all the guys who wound up on Live played in that first tournament. And they offered Rory millions of dollars. And he said no.

He said there's a morality to it. I don't want their money. I don't want their blood money, and that I want to be on the right side of history. And so he saw it in very stark terms. He never wavered. And they would have given him half a billion dollars or more to come to live golf. But he was never even tempted because he just felt like they were trying to destroy what his heroes had built. And he wanted to carry that legacy on.

And it will be a part of his story that Rory helped save the PGA tour. He deserves that. He earned that with his advocacy, with his deploy. And the way he reshaped the tour into a much leaner and much more competitively interesting platform. And they made it more star-driven. They funneled a lot of money at the top players. And it stopped this exodus of guys to live golf. And that was Rory's vision.

And he made it happen with his political capital. So, you know, he just like Nicholas and Palmer birthed the PGA tour in 1968, you know, Rory helped save it. And that has meaning to him more than a bag full of money. All countries are provincial. Canadians want to see Canadians win when they watch the CBC Olympics. But I felt watching, and I felt this more than once watching Rory, that he's the most popular golfer on the golf course in America, at a major. Is that historically rare?

Is there ever been anybody else from overseas that the American crowd views as an ally. And at that masters, it was obvious. America, Augusta was rooting for Rory. In your life covering golf, is that a distinction that's singularly at Rory's? Yes, and that's insightful. I mean, I would say the only non-American who might threaten that, and it's a smaller window is Greg Norman.

You know, he looked like a bond villain. He had this charisma. he lived large he played the the merch he had the swagger but and I think Norman was probably that guy

for a few years but then he tried to create this world tour funded by Rupert Murdoch to compete with the PGA tour and he became a pariah and he just sort of set himself on fire in 1994 and he ended that adoration

because like live golf he tried to burn it all down and so definitely no one's ever had it as long as Rory does. And, you know, Sevi Biosteros was this amazingly charismatic figure, but he was battling the PGA tour. He was raging against the machine.

And he was, he had, he burned hot. He had this spikiness. And he just radiated this, the seething intensity that played, I think fans could appreciate the genius, but they never felt the connection like they knew with Rory. And it's because Rory's flawed and there's a fragility there, that I, I think, makes him so compelling because, you know, when Tiger had a lead at a major, he just snuffed the life out of it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Rory's blown a couple. And we love that. It's a high wire act while he's juggling chainsaws. And when you saw that head of gust, like, that final round,

and he had, he saw people forget, he saw the low round of the day on Friday and Saturday last year. He was playing literally the best golf of his life. He was in total command of his golf ball. And then the weight of history. And, you know, as his putting coach, Brad Faxon, I call it, the angels and demons on his shoulder. Like, it was a metaphysical battle. And everyone was along for the ride. And you could see the strain and the stress and the pressure. It was written on his forehead.

And he hit some of the worst shots in Master's History and also some of the best. And it was just this incredible. It was about, it was not about golf. It was not about birds and bogeys. It was like the human condition. And that's why. it was so riveting. And that's why it, the impact of it, people were not crying on their couches because he won the career grand slam. Like, that's cool. That's a nice bit of history.

But it was that he had conquered his demons. And it was a much more relatable thing. Like, that victory was about not giving up on your dreams, about not quitting, about believing in yourself. And that stuff that you and I and everyone can relate to you, no matter what we do for a thing. And so that's why people were so moved by it. It wasn't because of, you know, it was his fifth career major. Okay, that's nice. But it was the human element that made that master so unforgettable. Rory's obviously thought about his place in history.

You write about it. Final chapter. Where is he all time? Yeah, I mean, I lay this all in the last chapter of the book. I mean, he's already clearly one of the dozen greatest players of all time. And even there's three legends in front of him with six majors, and Rory has five. It's Faldo, it's Mickelson, it's Lee Trevino. But in my mind, he's already surpassed them because of the scale of what he's done.

You know, Phil never got to number one. He never won a money title. Rory's won three money titles in the U.S. and seven in Europe. He spent, you know, many, many weeks at number one. His global impact, he's won everywhere. I mean, he's the greatest global golfer since Gary player, and it's in a much different media era. like Roy's impact is far beyond Nick Faldo,

who only won four times in the U.S. Now, three of them were masters, but, you know, he, and so he's in very rarefied air. And there's a cute bit because I asked people that. And I asked Patrick Harrington, he's a friend and mentor and he said, oh, I know the answer because on Rory's wedding night after he had a bunch of wine,

I asked him what he was chasing. And Rory said, you know, the number he's always had in his head is nine major championships. And there's a strange power. hour when you speak that into existence. And by that metric, he's barely halfway there. And if Rory gets to nine,

which I think is very doable, given his longevity, he's one of the five greatest golfers of all time. There's zero doubt. And so, you know, he's ascending up, you know,

Mount Nicholas to this role as one of the all-time greats. And he's most of the way there, but it's tantalizing to think about because, you know, Rory's longevity, He's been in the top 20 of the world ranking for over 850 weeks. Like, it's unheard of.

You know, Phil was the gold standard. He was in the front ranks the game for 30 years. But Rory's basically two-thirds of the way there. And he's not slowing down. He takes great care of his body. He's got one of those long swings that kind of hold up like a Phil, like a Sam Sneed. And, you know, it was a big deal when he won the Irish Open because he'd had that summertime swoon. And that the Irish Open last at the end of the summer kind of rekindled Rory's joy and his

passion. And I thought his comments were so important because after he won, he didn't say, this means so much to me. And this is so important to my career. He said, it's just, it's so gratifying to win this for all these fans and to give them what they wanted. And I think he knows now that he, he's playing for something bigger than himself. Like, he carries the hopes of and the dreams of many golf fans. And as he's become their tiger and even these young players now, they grew up idolizing Rory. And he feels the weight of that.

And he doesn't want to let people down. He wants to keep going. He wants to keep thrilling them. He's a bit of a ham and a show off. He wants to hit the great shot. And that's what he cares about. And I think if you're chasing this larger purpose, like he wants to inspire kids on the Irish island,

And I think that helps you get up in practice when he doesn't, he wouldn't really need the motivation. He has nothing left to prove. He has the money. He has all of it. But this sense that he was born with this gift and he was put on this earth to thrill the rest of us. I think that propels him forward. And I really think that a lot of Rory's best golf is in front of him. And it's fun to think about that.

When you're and often when people cover golf, they're in the tent because you have to see the entire tournament. But the rare times that you've got the opportunity to walk alongside him by a galley. be around him by a gallery. What do people say? What do they yell at Rory? I mean, part of it is just there's a, the experience when Rory hits driver, you can feel it around fans. You know, it starts, it starts with awe and it turns to laughter.

Once the ball propelled and it's like, it's at its apex, people laugh because it's so impossible. The guy's five foot eight inches tall. He weighs maybe, you know, a buck 65, and he's carrying it 350. It's just super human what he does to a golf ball. I mean, Dustin Johnson is 6'4. Phil and VJ were 6.3. Like, Ernie Ells was 6'4.

Like, these guys had these imposing physical presences. You don't even tiger with all the muscles and he was shaped like a martini glass. Like, you know, but what Rory can do, I love that laughter. I love to hear it because I know it's coming. I've been seeing it now for almost 20 years. And it's just disbelief. And that's part of his superhuman. human quality because he's not this Hulk. And so I always look for the laughter. But also,

you know, there's a common touch to Rory when people shout out, hey, Rory, I love you. Like, he'll give him a little wink. He'll give him a nod. Like he, Arnold Palmer was really impactful on Rory. And, you know, Arnie was the king of eye contact. And that's, he made people feel special. You know, and Tiger had that thousand yard stare. He was, it was like he was performing. on stage alone. He didn't need the gallery. He didn't care about the gallery. He didn't want to acknowledge the gallery.

Rory is like Arnie. Like he's doing it for the gallery. And so there is a fun little connection there. And, you know, he's just always so kind to people. They'll always find a kid in the crowd to give a golf ball. When he's walking the next tee, he'll pat him on the head. It's just these little gestures that take a millisecond, but like it means so much to the kid, to all the adults are

around them. And he just has a common touch. You know, it's, if you go to Ireland to play golf or just, just as a tourist, you know it's a very warm culture. And he just carries that with him. And so, yeah, it's fun to be in Rory's gallery because there's more of a sense of joy. You know, Tiger was revered. I would say Rory is beloved. And it's a different feeling. Great stuff, Alan. Thank you. I know you're busy. This was great for me. And I hope it was as great to the listeners. Thank you. Well, I always have time for you, Colin. I appreciate you.

Thanks for the platform. And I'm glad you enjoyed the book. And, you know, I'm always happy to come on and talk to you anytime you need me. The volume. Shoot your shot. Get paid double only on Hard Rock Bet. Hard Rock Bet is Florida's only legal way to bet the NBA, teams, players, points, and more. He shoots.

He scores. And when you sign up for Hard Rock Bet, your bets paid double winnings. Don't just count the basket. Count it twice. He's on fire now. customers get paid double on your first 10 vets. Try hard rock bet today. Max bet of $50 per bet offered by the Seminole tribe of Florida must be 21 plus and physically present in Florida to wager. Terms and conditions apply. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem,

please call 1-833 Playwise. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being and ask questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown.

searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice.

Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from a Hypocrite Wednesdays on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.