The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Ryen Russillo on Donovan Mitchell → Cavs, Brady Gossip, Fake Q’s on Baker

Episode Date: September 2, 2022

First, Fake Questions, Real Answers (3:00), including which team got the best of the Donovan Mitchell trade, the likelihood rumors of Tom Brady and Gisele fighting are true, if Baker Mayfield saying he’s going to “f— up" the Browns is a big mistake, why Russell Wilson didn't get a fully guaranteed deal like Deshaun Watson, who's clearly the NBA’s best current player, and if Trey Lance can fend off a looming Jimmy G. Then, Ryen Russillo - Host of the Ryen Russillo Podcast - joins Colin to react to the trade sending Donovan Mitchell to the Cavs for draft picks and parts (12:00). They also discuss if Tom and Gisele’s reported marital problems should be a daily sports topic (23:00), what it would take for Belichick to retire (31:00), why Ryen hates the B1G expansion (42:00), and their favorite New England vacation spots. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

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Hi, everybody. Been off for about a week or so. Maybe not quite. Ryan Rosillo's going to join me today. Sometimes in life, timing is everything. He's a great NBA guy, and we got Donovan Mitchell going to the Cavs for a bunch of picks and parts. Talk about that. First, though, fake questions, real answers.

There's stuff I want to talk about, but don't want to wait for you to ask me. Fake questions, real answers, here we go. Dear Colin, what do you make of the Donovan Mitchell trade to the calves for a bunch of picks and parts? Well, I have a rule in trades. If the better team got the best player, I don't care who won the trade. That's the team I'm going to pay attention to. My only concern is will Donovan Mitchell take shots away from Darius Garland and Evan Mobley? He can be a little bit of a ball hog.

What I like about it is Midwest teams like Cleveland and the Minnesota Timberwolves are taking big swings. There's always been this belief that in the NBA, a Midwest team. Maybe in the NFL, the Packers, too, has to overpay to land a free agent. I don't know if that's true. But I like people that swing big. The Minnesota Timberwolves are looking around going, Who gives a rip?

About draft picks? We got Carl Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards. These are stars. Let's add the best defensive rim protector and go for it. Cleveland Sandarius Garland. Evan Mobley. We hit two home runs in the draft. Let's add a vexed.

veteran all-star level piece. Let's go for it. I'm for going for it. I love seeing these Midwestern teams beaten down for years taking swings. To me, Cleveland's a good team that just got better, more productive offensively. I think they can challenge. I really do. For the East. Dear Colin, what do you make about the reports now that Tom, Brady, and Giselle, the reason he took off 11 days in training camp, they had a big fight. about him promising he was retired and then going back to play. Well, I set it on the air. That was my guess.

He made a big promise, and Giselle wasn't going to let him back down from the promise. But I also think the Boston gossip columnists had this a couple of weeks ago. They've been on this for a couple of years. As a married guy, I'm not going to speak for other married media members, but I'd rather not really touch this story. Husbands, wives, fight regularly over a lot of stuff. Now add in superstars, both of them. I think we could all guess what happened here, which is what was reported.

Dear Colin, what do you make of this story about Baker Mayfield? Saying, when he faces his old team, he's going to F him up. Well, I'm sure he said it. Who cares? He didn't say it publicly. He didn't say it at a podium. Stuff is said all the time. Yeah, I know everybody on social media is perfect and never swears. This is how pro athletes talk. You know, we saw Tom Brady's cell phone. He was dog and Peyton Manning. They're still friends. Athletes are competitive. Baker's competitive. This is how athletes. talk all the time. If something gets out, that doesn't bother me. That's called reporting. But so he dropped an F-bomb. Who cares? Have you ever been in a locker room? This is how athletes talk. It doesn't bother me at all. The truth is, if he doesn't have a chip on his shoulder against the Browns, who's he going to have it on his shoulder against? My problem with Baker was never as Hutzpah. It's that sometimes you've got to fall on the sword or keep things to yourself. This got

out. But he didn't say it at a podium. I got no problem with it. Dear Colin, what stands out to you about Russell Wilson's new five-year, $245 million contract, $165 guaranteed? What stands out to me is this ridiculous opinion that it should have been all guaranteed, or he was doing the Broncos is solid. Just because a second-tier organization like the Cleveland Browns, perpetually desperate, gave a guaranteed contract to a less talented quarterback to Sean Watson doesn't mean a better organization has to duplicate it. Desperate people, desperate businesses, desperate football teams often over-guarantee and overspend and overpay. The Broncos historically have been mostly well-run.

I wouldn't guarantee anybody's contract at the NFL level, including a star quarterback. I really wouldn't. In no other business would you watch a lousy business overpay for somebody and go, well, that's the new standard since one of the Browns ever set the standard for anything? Dear Colin, recently Steve Kerr, coach of the Warriors, said if he could pick one non-warier to coach, it would be. be Janus. What are your thoughts on that? Well, of course it would be Janus. He's the most dominant basketball player when you consider both ends of the floor in the league. He's the league's best player. I mean, he's not as old or broken down as LeBron. He's more physically dominating than Steph. He's not as needy or prickly as Kevin Durant. He's vaxed, unlike Kyrie. Who else is there? He's got the confidence

Jason Tatum sometimes lax. He's the best. best player in the league. He's also coachable. He's also still adding elements to his game. Listen, in my life, we have generally had a best player in the league. Right now, Janice is the best player in the league. This year, probably last year. Before that, 12 years, it was LeBron. Michael Jordan was the best player in the league for a while. So was Magic Johnson. Maybe it was Shaq. there's nobody else in the league that gives you the coachability, the athletic ability, the complete commitment, and isn't high maintenance better than Janus. Dear Colin, who do you think starts for the San Francisco 49ers at quarterback in mid-season?

Hmm, my guess is Trey Lance, but it's going to be bumpy. Go back to college, go back to last season, and go back to this training camp. He completes less than 60% of his throws. Listen, there's been a lot of great quarterbacks, including Matt Stafford, that throw picks, and don't complete 66, 67%. The struggle is completely transparent. Hell, Kyle, Shannahan has addressed it multiple times, saying he's not consistent. We'd like more time with him. I don't think he'll ever be aesthetically a beautiful thrower of the football.

it'll never look like Kyler Murray or Joe Burrow. It'll never be as accurate as Kirk Cousins or Derek Carr or Brady. He's an athlete. He'll make big plays. He'll struggle with accuracy. My guess is as long as he limits mistakes, he'll be starting in Thanksgiving. But it'll be bumpy. There'll be bad halves and bad Sundays. How do I know that? Because Jimmy Garoppolo wouldn't have re-signed with the team. if that wasn't the case. Kyle Shanahan, it's a hedge.

Obviously, he said as much. I've been trying to get my buddy Ryan Rosillo on forever. He's busy. He's got a podcast. And so we have him scheduled for today. And the Donovan Mitchell stray breaks. And I know exactly what Rosillo's thinking. Coward, I'm not giving you my best shit.

So don't expect a lot for me. So I thought to myself, sometimes you get lucky. So I know you have stuff to do. but I'm going to throw my takeaway on this at you and you just shoot it down is that I understand there's value in who won the trade. But if I think you're a pretty good team Cleveland and you got the best player Cleveland, it falls into the I don't really care who won the trade because I can't wait to watch the calves because I thought last year I'm like, shit, they're a player in a year away.

So I don't know who won the trade. But it does feel like Mitchell is kind of what they're. they need. Do you see it that way? He's exactly what they need, Colin. I mean, this is a Cavs team. I liked watching last year. I love Darius coming out of the draft. It was a little hard because, you know, he was a little, he was smaller. He didn't have a ton of playing time. I mean, honestly, like when you look back to Kyrie's Duke year, you know, he barely played. And then you just realized what a special talent he was. And I'm not saying Darius is Kyrie. In a way, I hope he isn't.

But there were some similarities there. And it's really apparent that. you know, he's a special guard. And Cleveland, I think in a weird way, it was like, hey, if Sexton's going to be out, you know, we can kind of give the keys to Darius and go. So then on top of that, you get Allen, you got Mowgli, so they're doing something a little bit more traditional. So my point is this, is all the Kaz games that I watched. And I watched a lot of them because I just liked the young players, their shot creation all fell on Garland at the end of games. It was a joke. And if you go to fourth quarter offensive efficiency, where last year, they were 19th in the NBA. And I think in their clutch time, it was even worse. It was so apparent that Garland was just supposed to

left to dribble and create it all on its own. They bring in Carus Lavert to try to ease that a little bit. And everybody likes Carus Lavert until they get them on their team. They're like, oh, okay, this guy's playing his own game here. So if you factor in that, yes, you won the trade because you got the best player, which is what a GM told me when I first started covering the league 20 years ago. He goes, you know, more often than not, you look at the history. When you get the best player, he end up winning the trade, I'm not saying they're going to

win the East, but they solved a massive problem because when it comes to shot creation, and we can get in all the Mitchell, who is, he overrated, underrated and all that stuff. He is a fantastic shock creator. So it's a huge look, it's the player. He was available. The package, all that stuff. But for what they needed, they needed somebody else that was another threat with a ball in his hands

and as a shooter. And that's exactly what Mitchell is. You know, there's been a theory for years in all sports, certainly the Packers, that Midwest teams have to overpay in trades or free agency to get players. I don't know if that's true. But I will say this, is

that here's and I go to a couple of jazz games a year. I like Danny Ains. I like what they're doing. It's a one horse town. So they'll be patient, right? They'll sit it out and be patient. And they've had a lot of success.

They've always been fairly viable. But here's the thing I don't love about these total rebuilds. So even Janus, I think the best player in the league, it took about till year four where you were like, whoa, whoa, he's getting to a top five player, right? So, you know, just throw LeBron out of it. Most of these guys come out now, these draft picks. They're 19. Forget physically ready.

They're just not emotionally ready. So when you do these rebuilds, Ryan, what I don't like about it, you're asking your fans, even if we hit on the draft picks, it's three years after that. Until you can really go into the playoffs and be viable. Now, you can obviously add pieces, but Danny Aange tends to be, I want to win the trade, or I'm not a make. I'm not making the trade. And again, Utah is not a big free agent destination. So I understand his plan, Ryan. But man, I think what you charge fans today, it's a hard sell.

And I, you're really good at this personnel in the NBA drafting stuff. I always trust your opinions. But shit, man, it's hard. I got one year a college tape with an overbearing college coach. It feels like there's more misses than ever out of the draft. Yeah, if you start looking at the top 10 in recent drafts, too, it's remarkable how many of those top 10 players are on a new team by year two or three. It's more than 50% of the top 10.

Like I used to think the later picks in the first round were totally overvalued. And I did talk to a GM who heard me say it like five years ago where I just started looking at it. And I'm like, you know, you trade your guy for like a 20 and a 27. And then it's really exciting. Like, oh, we have three first rounders. If you get a rotation guy in the 20s, you crushed it. Okay. And as I started, no, everybody wants to go like, well, what about Dream?

on green and manage it. You're like, yeah, man, awesome. Like, when Hinky would stockpile all these second rounders and everybody would, like, act like it meant anything, didn't mean anything. The second rounders were even worse. So when I started talking about the overvaluing the first round picks, I had a GM who was pretty smart,

who was like, you know, I don't always agree with you, but he goes, I heard what you said about the first rounders. He goes, that's how we've been running our business now for a couple years. Like, I don't care. We're a pretty good team. We're generally always a pretty good team. We're a destination.

We feel like we're always in play for some guys. And, like, why do I care about, like, pick 22. Like maybe I hit it and it's a cheap rotation guy, but chances are it's like less than a 50% win. So I'll give you a bunch of those. And so the weird thing is now that we've seen all these trades happen, I think a lot of GMs have decided, yeah, I don't care about these picks either. Like, let's go. Like when you think about the Kauai trade from San Antonio to Toronto and you're like, all right, so you got to Rosen, who actually is, you know, it's weird, he's an odd player and that he's gotten so much better so much later in his career. He's like in total aberration.

Right. And then you throw in Perkins. who, you know, I sneakie still kind of like a little bit. But if that trade were done today, even with the one year left on Kauai's deal, knowing that Toronto's probably not a free agent destination, there's at least a couple firsts, a couple unprotected first thrown into that. And that's just not, that's how quickly this has changed. But part of me also wonders at times is like, do you guys actually want a player back that's any good? Or do you just want to be able to say, oh, I have all of these draft picks?

Now, for certain places who are worried about resigning their own guys, that it makes sense. You're right. Utah's probably a bottom. free, free agent destination. So I'm not even a huge fan of stockpiling out of cap space because, and I know, Angels, he's told me straight up years ago when I was in Boston. He goes, you know, this whole, all you guys in the media stockpiling this cap space, he's like, that means I'm waiting around with a plan with no idea of who I'm getting.

So he was like, I'm always more into the trades. So the first round movement of the last couple of years is definitely a product of GMs, realizing these picks aren't that valuable. But I think it's in a weird way on the other side of the receiving team. they value the ability to say, oh, we have five picks now moving forward. And I'm like, you know, at some point I want a nice player. So if the Schaams report was correct that the Knicks offered R.J. Barrett in two unprotected firsts, if that's correct, and Schaams is better at the stuff than I am, I would take that deal 10 out of 10 times over the Cleveland package

because all of these players like, Markman is kind of a disappointment. Sexton, Cleveland didn't want to pay them. And now you pay them. And it's not a ton of money and it's fine. and then, you know, Abaji, who, you know, might be a marginal rotation player. You know, who knows? College football is back, baby, and Fandul is putting you in the middle of the action. Right now, all customers, all get a no-sweat bet for week one.

That means free bets back if your bet doesn't win. For everybody, just log into your account, see how much your no-sweat bet will be. So many different ways to bet on college football, same-game parlays, bet on who you think will win it all in the national championship. College Football Week 1 bet. I like Utah minus two and a half to beat Florida and to cover. I don't see the playmakers for the Gators. I think they're fairly pedestrian at quarterback Billy Napier's first year.

And the Utes bring back several all-conference linemen on both sides of the ball. I think they control the line of scrimmage and control the game. Take the Utes to win by about a touchdown. If you've been thinking about joining Fandul, now is the perfect time to give it a shot. It's America's number one sports book. Download the Fandul app today. The promo code is always Colin. It's called the No Sweat bet to kick off the college football season.

Have some fun. I love it. Download the Fandul app. Sign up. The promo code is Colin. Always the no sweat bet at Fandle. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but in It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because, of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose

on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. All right, well, move off that. I want to save your gems. That's all right. Although you were very good there. No, I was going to give you the good stuff.

That was the old college game day thing. Like, every now we get somebody to come over in the show and then I'd say like, well, what are you hot on? And the guy would be like, well, we're not supposed to use our best stuff. I'm like, we booked you. That is funny. So let's just pivot to the shirt you're wearing, which those things. sell on eBay. They're like NFTs now. You can just gobble them up. This is my retirement plan. So I want to touch on the Brady-Jazel thing because the story came out that, and it was pretty

predictable. But I said in my preamble before you, like, there are certain things. Like, I kind of know and I don't want to talk about. So the Boston gossip columnist had been on this Giselle Tom fighting shit for a couple of years. And I talked to somebody who kind of plays in that circle. And he's like, Yeah, I mean, he made promises and he backed out of the promises and she's pissed off. And it's weird, Ryan, because I'm not a storybreaker. Like Shams does that better than us. You're very good at it. But like there are stories I don't really want to talk about.

And I really don't want to talk about Tom and Giselle because marriage is hard and mine's good. And it's not easy. And I think to myself, what if Brady caught me talking about it? Now, that may be delusional. But he used me in some documentary piece, right? And I'm like, so he's heard of me. What if he's dancing around the TV and I'm talking about Tom Brady's marriage? And I'm like, it would be fucking embarrassing if in 10 years I ran into him in a golf tournament.

Am I being weird? I just don't want to talk about his marriage. I think you're being a little weird. Like, I don't, I wouldn't say, hey, you're wrong. You know, that should be your open three days this week. Why were your producer? I wouldn't be like your to. because I had heard about it too, but I go, you know, I'm not, I'm not really interested in that part of it.

I mean, if I had to do a segment on it, I would say, oh, you're mad, you're married to the best quarterback of all time. And he's the most competitive person maybe ever. And he's decided, hey, I'm still really good at this. And I want to keep playing when the, when this season's like five months. So again, that's me maybe being a guy. I'm like, hey, you can date somebody in sales, you know. So, but again, I don't know that I would do that. Maybe I just did a little bit.

I, I, you know, we're at a weird, we're at a weird, this is this actually really interesting, because I think we're at a weird, like, intersection of, like, should we have more sympathy now? Because there's, there's more awareness, there's more sympathy with public figures in sports. You know, I was talking to somebody about one of the tennis stories the other day. And, you know, I was kind of like, yeah, I mean, this is consumed differently. If you say publicly, hey, I'm struggling with these things. Sure, you buy criticism everywhere, but there seems to be less of it of the public people, of in the media.

There's more sympathy towards it. I think a byproduct of that is as long as this is simply a family story, it doesn't impact the football at all. I think all of us would have real hesitation to be like, how would I build, what do I build the topic? Like, what's the topic? How am I doing this where the listeners like, oh, cool, here's a different take or a new spin on this. So I think a lot of us would still love to operate with some respect to a family thing, but sometimes it's just it's in a lane that we have to address it. I don't know.

You know, I was watching them in preseason. So who were they playing the other? I went on vacation. So it was right before I went on vacation. He played a couple series. You're a vacation a lot recently. Yeah. Yeah, a lot.

Rhode Island. Shit. People aren't happy where I work. But I watched him on a couple series. And I'm just sitting there casually watching it with a cocktail. I'm like, shit, man, he is freaking good. Yeah. Like, I mean, seriously, crisp, accurate.

I mean, like. The pop on his arm? It's sick. Ryan, I'm watching all these second people are freaking out. Ooh, look at what Brock Purdy can do. And I'm like, Brock Purdy, you can fit him into his back pocket. He's tiny. And I'm watching Brady.

I'm like, 6-5, big arm, accurate pre-snap weapons. Like, I get it. Listen, I don't want to be one of these guys, like with an eight, the first number of my age. I will not be on the air. But, dude, if I was 69 and I'm still, like, having a ball and I'm doing this and we're laughing, then I'm going to keep doing it. And Anne's going to go, hey, what about me? And I'm going to say, you know, it's not a terrible life.

We've created a great life. I'm just not available on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I'm talking to Ryan Rosillo. You know, it's like I watched that preseason game and I'm like, shit, man, he's still great, right? Totally with you. And, you know, any of us that have been lucky enough to have friends in played sports, you know, one of the biggest things is they all want to keep your power and play as long as they possibly can. And it's funny, too. It's like, this is the same thing.

It happens in our industry, but I do think it happens in life. When you're young, this sounds very simplistic, but part of being young is not knowing any better. So when you're a young athlete, you're like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to be one of those guys. And it's like, you have no idea where your head is going to be at at 35. One of our college roommates told the story. He had a thing going on, super rough night out. And he did something.

His wife got really mad at him. And we were like, when we were in college, did we ever think that you'd be 47 having that kind of night out? And he was like, no. He goes by every now and then, you know, it's going to happen, you know, because I still like to have a good time. And when people talk about our industry, he's like, hey, I don't want to be that guy who's over 50. Like when you're 28, you think 50 is so old. And I think the same thing has happened here for Brady. Like, I never thought he'd be able to do this.

He changes everything the way I have to think about athletes playing that a little bit older. Now, I think his liability is part of it. I think the fact that he found a way to play this extremely dangerous position by constantly getting rid of the football and not taking those kill shots. He's just the lack of the accumulation of effect of being hit like that. It makes me kind of change. Like, how open of a mind do I have to be have about who LeBron can be moving forward? But it's really easy to assume that you know how you're going to think when you're 20 years older. But the thing is, you're usually always wrong.

And most of us, when we're in that, but when we are older, we don't go, oh, wait, I feel the exact same way now. It sucks to do nothing. I don't want to do nothing at any point in my life. Dude, I sleep seven hours a day. I'm at work for six. Six to noon. That's 13 hours. I have 11 left.

I nap for 40 minutes. I work out for about 50. Every other day I do a podcast. I'm sitting around every day thinking, I don't go to the YouTube channel. That's what my kids do. Like, at some point, Brady's like, retire to what?

I got kids by 13, 14, Ryan, they don't want to hang out with you all day. They just don't. Like, I get it. All right, let's pivot to something that you were on years ago. So we both, I think we're both, like a lot of times in the media, a guy's an NFL guy or he's a college guy. And you were somebody very early, Van Pelt was too, like we loved college and we loved the NFL. And we grew up in NFL cities.

but there's something really addictive about the college game. I can't wait until Saturday. I'm freaking just all fired up for it. I mean, I sat and watched the entire Nebraska Northwestern game in a bar, Church Street Tavern in Burlington, Vermont. I know. I had a goddamn ball. How great is that town?

Oh, so much fun. I called Rosillo everybody, by the way. No, first I sent a picture because Rosillo never calls me back. And I sent a picture. He calls me in 30 seconds. And I'm like, he always could. call me back. I had to entice him. It was like bait. And then you called and you're like, what are you doing there? And I'm like, this is unbelievable. I'd never been there. So the point

being is, I sat there the whole day and I had three and a half hours. I was just sitting there eating chicken wings, drinking beer, talking to people. I'm like, oh my God, I love college football. So we like the draft because it's this conversion of both. The other day, Bill Barnwell, I think it is, had this graph on how awful Patriots draft. And It was just brutal. And you were on this 10 years ago. We talked about this at Bristol. We were like, why won't anybody talk about it?

This past draft, so I have a theory that he got ripped. Not this draft, the previous draft. He let the scouts have it again. And they had a really good draft. And then he said, screw it. I want control back. And he had control of this draft. And it was horrible.

I do believe, and this sounds insane. But I do think Robert Kraft if they're bad and boring. He owns the business. I don't think it's freaking crazy at the end of the season if he talks about, hey, why don't you retire? Am I nuts?

It sounds crazy. But Robert Kraft is cutthroat. I know people who have negotiated with him for the NFL. You're not going to sit there and watch a 7 and 10 team that's boring for his consumers. They would have to be bad multiple years before that conversation. conversation would happen. I mean, we're still talking about despite the draft record, which is abysmal. I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I'm always shocked like whenever I bring it up and then you'll have like a

Pat's fan being like, what about Sunni Michelle in the playoffs? You're like seriously, that's your, that's your grading curve. Like a guy had a nice little run as a first round pick over a couple playoff games, but I don't know, they probably like JD Drew signing too. So when I look at the Belichick GM part of it, like no other GM would ever keep his job. But the problem is you're talking about somebody who's maybe the greatest coach of all time. And it's somebody that, you know, was in Boston during the times you're like, what's Belichick doing? And he was always right. Like, I remember the first time doing local radio there. They get rid of lawyer Malloy, the bills smoke them, spend the entire week being like this locker, which probably turning on.

I'm saying all the bullshit that we say and we don't know anything. And, you know, you just assume. And Belichick was right. You know, later on, it was Adam Vitutari. Like, how do you let this guy go? And even though Vittieri still had a nice run, but he was inside. He decided, you know, I'm going to go with Gostowski and it was completely right. like he's done so many things right. The Brady one, though, never made any sense to me. Even if he thought he was regressing a little bit, and maybe as we said earlier, you know, back then we still were like, wait, Brady's going to play it all 45. But 31 other cities keep Tom Brady around with that resume.

31 other, well, I should say franchise isn't the cities. They all keep them. And Belichick's the one guy who you kind of knew. Like, do you like to kind of prove some point sometimes? Do you like to maybe, you know, it's one thing when you grab a wrestling. to play offensive guard to say like, hey, look how smart I am. And sometimes it works. And I think he likes to get cute about some of the stuff.

So the draft record is terrible. He was asked about it. Was it last season? And he was like, or maybe before the draft this year, they were like, you know, how would you respond? And everybody's so afraid of the guy. And he was like, oh, you know, we had some pretty good picks in there too. And it was like, oh, wow.

Listen to you. Like, hey, man, the draft record is what it is. You're bad at it. You've been really bad at it for a long time. So I don't know what the dynamic is between the scouts and everything else. I think he always likes to do things to do things to look. bit differently. The offensive coordinator mystery of like, is Matt Patricia really going to be the guy calling plays now? Like you, why can't, you can't bring in somebody else. But he ends up

being right so often that he's a really tough guy to question, even if again, is the draft resume is that bad. So I'm not with you yet because as much as the Kraft-Bilichick thing, like, I don't think they're sumering together. This guy has put together two decades that are unmatched. You know, the number of division titles, Super Bowl appearances. Like, He has a resume that is unmatched by every single person that's had that job in the history of this league. So I think it takes more than one in seven, ten season that's a little disappointing for them to start having those kind of conversations. So years ago, it was called the Patriot Way. Oh, yeah.

And the Patriot Way could be defined basically by it's not about you, it's about us. Yeah. Whatever it takes to win. Right. Team first, whatever it takes to win. Brady takes pay cuts. And then Belichick three years ago, according to. to Urban Meyer and Urban, like, put Bill's name on it, so I imagine it was accurate.

Urban Meyer says like three, four years ago. You know, I'm talking to Bill. And Bill said, you know, at this point in my career, I'm just going to coach guys I want to coach. And I thought, whoa, that's about you, not the team. And that isn't whatever it takes to win. And I thought, that's something that Ryan that I think about all the time. Like, I never want to be the host who walks in and just says, This is the way I do it.

It's not very efficient. I've a real passion for horse racing now, and that's just what's going to lead the show three days a week. Sorry. It's like, no, I can't do that. That's just not, I'm not going to do that. Like, I'm going to do a show that's going to have some mass appeal. Sorry.

I'm never going to be like, I made it. It doesn't matter. Drag racing is going to make the show. No, it's not, ever. Not one time. And so when I heard that quote, I'm like, oh, wait a minute. It's a little Greg Popovich. Like, dude, it's six years post.

Duncan, you had the lowest win total odds in the league. Like, I don't think DeJante Murray is a max guy, but he's your best guy, and you couldn't get along with Kauai. And Derozen left and had his best career year. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there is part of me thinking, you get really famous, you get rich, you have your legacy, and you're just like, eff it. I'm going to do what I want to do. I kind of feel that with Belichick a little bit.

Two kids on the staff? That one, look, if you're telling me, Urban said that, and again, I've forgotten about it, so I'm not, I'm not disputing around like that. Yeah, that's not what it's really about. I mean, the Patriot Way thing was always kind of bullshit and oversolved. And there was a weird thing, like, when I was in Boston media, it was like, the football beat guys would like, look, I'd come to buy and do like a basketball show. And it's like, NBA, huh? You know, as the Patriots are rolling and you're like, hey, you know, you're not on the team, right? you're not on the team.

So there was, not every member of the media with the Patriot side of it. But, you know, it was like, oh, they only bring in certain character guys and all these different things. And then it was like, yeah, actually you brought in this guy, he brought in this guy, brought in this guy. So, like, you know, he just wants to go ahead and win,

which in a weird way, I always felt like, you know, you can try to have 53 perfect citizens on the team, but there's really good chance there's guys doing stuff that don't get caught anyway. So I must take a couple guys that are cheaper because they've gotten into trouble. I think Herm Edwards once told me, he's like, I could take four of them because of a 53-man roster. You give me four, he goes, if you've got me five, it's too many. He's like, I can handle four guys that are a problem, which I always thought was kind of a funny quote.

The Popovich one, though, I think that's his refusal to tank. You know, he's talked about it. I respect his position on it. But if I own the franchise, I'd go, cool theories, it's easy for you with all of these rings, to say, hey, that's not what we're going to operate. And now we're stuck in this middling thing with the least interesting roster in the entire NBA. Him not getting along with Kauai, I think was Kauai more on the medical thing. And honestly, now, Kauai at two other stops, I don't think Kauai's that easy to get along with.

So I wouldn't put that one all on Popovich. But it is a, it is very interesting the combo of like, as you get later in life, does your priority change? And is your priority actually what's better for the franchise long term? Popovich, I think it's interesting discussion, Belich. it's still too soon. I mean, hell, you know, something goes wrong. I think the bills are clearly the better team, probably the best team in the AFC at this point. But I'm also not going to be shocked if the past find a way with a good defense, Mack, taking a step forward another year. But

I just, I don't know. Belichick is a really difficult guy to question because it ends up usually working out for him, despite the fact, I think he gets really cute about some stuff that to me feels like a waste of time for somebody that's that legendary at the job. Okay, so I always feel like part of it is just, you know, just being annoying. But I always feel like you do get one team as a sportscaster that you're a little bit of a fanboy. And so I didn't grow up in Southern California. All right. But I'm a USC guy.

Yeah, yeah. You're a USC. And I think it's funny. Like at this point, I'm just leaning into it because it pisses people off so much. And I think it's a riot. I saw Chip Kelly at the 900 Club. He knows it. And it's like, whatever, I like him.

So who is yours? Oh, it's LSU. At this point, it's not really much of a secret. You know, I feel like coming from New England and going to Vermont that hasn't had a football team since 73, I believe. You know, I fell in love with college football in a way that I didn't really examine it. Look, I always love college football. I love watching it, you know, my dad, the big game or whatever, but I didn't really have an affinity for anything. There's maybe a little flirtation with Notre Dame as a kid because I love that Tony Rice team and Rocket Ishmael.

And then, you know, my first time getting to see Colt McCoy, I just love the kid. I'm thrilled. He's still in the league. He's one of my all-time favorites. And unfortunately, he was on the losing side of the greatest single football game I've ever been to when Texas Tech knocked off number one, A&M and 08, or excuse me, number one, Texas in Lubbock in 2008. It's the greatest sporting event I've ever been to. And then, you know, I really like Chip up in Oregon. But I'll tell you that the LSU experience the first time, it was a whole other level, man. It was a whole other level. I think I've been to 60 plus stadiums, campuses.

I've been there for games. It's probably the best part of my entire ESPN run. And so I care about LSU now. Like, I care and I watch. I'll pay attention to the little recruiting stuff. But I'm not a psychopath about it. Like, I'm just emotionally different with sports because I've been doing it 20 years. And I'm not saying it's better or worse.

it's a little healthier, but I actually miss having that emotional mood swing on the line. Right. I know I get it. Yeah, when the socks would blow a save when I was younger, they could blow the save on Monday. I've said the story a million times,

and I'd still be lingering my head being like, why the fuck they walked a lead off guy? It'd be Thursday. You know, it would still be bothering me. So when the Red Sox, I still care about it. You know,

I still care about the Celtics. Pat's I don't really care as much about, you know, if the Bruins are good, I'll watch a little bit more because I'll talk some hockey with my father as complete casuals on that one. But I'd say between LSU and then I think St. John's basketball, but it's just kind of a bit off the radar and this expansion stuff that I hate the first

casualty of many casualties, but the first casualty that really bothered me was Biggie's basketball. It's just not the same. It's never going to be the same again. And I hate it because it was an NBA factory there for a while. And now it feels like a group of five conference, which sucks. But, you know, I still care about St. Jones. Yeah. You know, it's...

What about you? Can I ask you something? Yeah. Do you actually believe it when you talk about USC and UCLA going to the Big Ten? Because if you love college football as much as I know you do, was that leaning into the schickle a little bit? No, no. I hate it. I hate it.

It's fucking stupid. Okay. It's stupid. Rutgers is going to be in the same conference with UCLA. argument over. Well, my theory has been kick Maryland and Rutgers out. Why does it, it's a one-way door. Why can I get rid of people?

Why do I have to have them forever? I don't understand that at all. If I was an AD, I'd be like, Rutgers, we rolled with it. It doesn't work. See you. But the politically presidents, universities don't like to do that. So here's my takeaway. I'd have to see the real data, though, on like, you know, you and I used to laugh about

different strategic things that we'd hear about. I know I interrupt you there a little bit. So I'll be quick, but it was like Rutgers brings you to New York City footprint. And you're like, if you asked 10 people in New York City what Rutgers was, you might go one for 10 on that. So, but if you're telling me that some cable package is brought in all this money, I'd be wondering why anyone's paying for it in the first place. Because there was always too, like some stuff where like if Yukon were in the mix, people would argue like, oh, well, it's close to Bristol. As if any of us on the content side of things, you're like, you know, we need to start doing, paying a little. little bit more attention to the American conference because we're only about 40 minutes from

stores. Like, it never happened. It happened zero times ever that we were there. So I'm with you on why Wise Rutgers. I know why Maryland left the ACC. All of their fans would rather be there because it's a basketball school before it's a football school, even though it looks like I probably have a decent football team this year. I don't know. I think we've crossed over a line where there's still plenty of money to be had out there and we're ruining stuff that I loved. I love the, I love the culture and geography of the five to six conferences. Okay. So, so. So here's why I'm okay with it. Because I think the minute we go to a 12-team playoff, conferences won't matter.

It's a prime example. 68 teams get in March madness. All the big conferences get five or six. Who gives a shit? Nobody cares. It's all about seating. The minute we go to a 12-team playoff, SEC is getting four, Big Ten's getting three. I mean, you can just write it down right now.

You're seven of the 12 are probably right there. One or two ACC, one or two PAC, there'll be a Cincinnati. Right, right. My takeaway is what we're really seeing is the erosion of conference importance. Well, that's why I like March Madness. I'm not rooting for the ACC. I'm rooting for the game. I'm rooting for the outcome.

I don't care where Gonzaga plays or where Kansas plays. They're just big brands. And my takeaway is college football has gotten so conference-centric. It's so regional. I'm like, can't we just make it a big canvas and not really care where they come from, but have more big games at the end of the year? So I'm rooting for the bottom line is my PAC 12 friends. And it was the conference I grew up with.

Oh, they're ruining it. Dude, ruining what? You stand up on a Thursday for Oregon State USC? Nobody watches those games. I see the numbers. But USC Wisconsin at Camp Randall. USC Ann Arbor at the Coliseum, those are just more good games. I think college football has a problem.

It's two regional one. And number two, without a 12-team playoff, teams are petrified to play a big game out of conference. Shit this weekend's a great example. I got two good games. Georgia, Oregon. I think Ohio State Notre Dame, but that's a 17.5 point spread. I just want more good games. And this forces USC and UCLA to go to Camp Randall.

Ann Arbor, the shoe, Iowa. And so I feel like as a consumer, I just get more good stuff. What if the Lakers said, hey, look at population charts, look at access to business, being the only game in town, we're just going to go to China because there's more money. NBA can have 29 teams. We're just going to be the Lakers. we're going to be out of Beijing. Sorry. Just more opportunity.

Again, it's an absurd question. But some of these philosophical defenses that I hear about all this stuff, when it all could have been, like, if it weren't for Larry Scott, the PACs well would be in a much better position that we wouldn't be here. So I don't know if that changed the timeline,

the what if scenario here. But I think there's a line that has been crossed. And, you know, I know that, younger people or I think a lot of it turns into the halves. You know, the Big Ten SEC fans are happy with it because it's like, well, cool, as long as we're fine. When, you know, I don't know. You know, if I'm in the SEC West, you're like, cool, we're adding Texas and Oklahoma. Awesome.

You did take a big leap there. You went from- Yes, I made up a massively stupid scenario, but I'm just trying to like test the limits. Yeah, that you went from. Yeah, that was terrible. Hey, I bumped into my ex at Starbucks to, we're getting married. They're really not the same. I mean, Lakers going to China is like, okay, that's a big swing.

I'm not sure I can. Right. But the reason I bring up that stupid analogy is because I've heard people go like, well, you know, the money, you know, access to this, you know, footprint and all these different things. They're like, okay, well, fine. What if you applied those same principles to the Lakers going, yeah, we actually just want to leave from the NBA. I want to play in China. We're going to make way more money for our owners. And you'd be like, okay, but everybody would say no to that. It'd be like, oh, that's crazy. When basically all of this has been a massive money grab. And for these schools to complain that we had to do it because our budget so screwed up, that's your fault. You've had endless increased revenue streams and you keep fucking it up. And that's the part where I've been so pro players cashing in on all this, is. that throughout my travels, you know, I'd leave one practice facility. And then I walk like across campus and I go, what the hell is this? And I'm like, oh, this is our new facility.

Like, wait, even. What was wrong with the one we were just in? It's like an indoor place. Be like, no, no, this one's like $200 million. We needed it. I'm like, how old is that one? You're like, six years old. You're like, so you needed this one.

You're like, yep, we needed this one. They're like, all right, whatever. Pay the kids. All right. Final question, Rosillo. So you grew up in Boston, Martha's Vineyard, well chronicled. I was in Rhode Island. Which part?

I was in. Watch Hill this weekend. I love it. In fact, I'll send you... Did you go there a lot when you were Connecticut? That's a big... That was like a big... You know guys had a little coin in the old pocket when they would...

They'd just bounced from West Hartford and I'd send a text. Cacao! Not Calhart. You're Coward. Van Pelt was a big Watch Hill guy. Yeah. Oh, love it. Freaking love it.

So I'm going to say... Maybe real estate? Maybe a little real estate play for you back in the East Coast? No, it's not really. estate. I'm going to send you a picture of me. Nude. Right now. This has never been done in the history of podcasting. So the picture I'm sending you is private. It's me leaving Block Island after a lobster

roll on a 29 and a half foot hinkly. And so as I'm on there, if I would have been more New England, I would have had whale pants and joined a men's adult lacrosse league. So that's what I did for four days. So the point being is I was thinking of you out there for this. As a Boston guy, I love Rhode Island. I fricking love Rhode Island. When, as a Boston guy, how does Boston view Rhode Island? Because Rhode Island doesn't have all the Boston stuff. And I freaking love Rhode Island.

How do you view it? I love Rhode Island for the beaches because I did spend a lot of time in Connecticut. And, you know, a big beach guy, the vineyard part of it, I'll never live somewhere that doesn't have some kind of water access to it. And I'm not talking about a lake, even though lakes are great too, but I don't want to turn this into a lake ocean debate. But Rhode Island, Boston guys don't think about it because they do their own thing. But when we were living in Connecticut, we didn't go to any of the Connecticut beaches because all we want to do is just go to Rhode Island all the time. And we haven't even touched on Newport, which has not only an incredible history, it's a great, great town, especially like, you know, the wife or the girlfriend. And you're like, hey, let's go do something kind of fun.

And it was still convenient because for us, and like, I think both of us would agree, I really, liked West Hartford. I actually did. If I had stayed there and everything was going to work out and was going to raise a family, I could have done West Hartford for a really long time. I was fine with it. I think you had more of an issue with it than I did. Maybe it was because I was more of a New England guy, so I was fine with it. But that Newport Watch Hill escape was like this, not that it was a hidden gem, but all of us would be like, wait, have you spent any time out? Like if you weren't from New England and you got out there, that whole area there is incredible. But Boston guys would never go, hey, let's do Providence tonight. If anything, it was, let's go to the Foxy Lady

maybe. Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah. Yeah, late night. Those are never like, hey, everything's closing up. Let's go to the Foxy Lady now after everything's closed. Be like, hey, I won't regret this tomorrow. Yeah. By the way, I guarantee you, they spelled Foxy with two X's. No, he's pretty straight up. That one's in Providence. I think there was, was a time, there was a time where I forget what the diss was. But I think the Pats had to do something where, like they had to be in Providence for something. And I think like one of the local politicians said something like, well, you know, when people think football, they think Providence or whatever. And then somebody on the Boston side of things said, what was Potucket

Busy? So it was like a real, it was a real dig. I forget what the whole timeline of events was, but I just never forget how funny. I thought that was. And Rhode Island's, Rhode Island's really cool. But I'll tell you, like, the interior part of Rhode Island, like, that's a rough, rough set of towns. Don't screw up in Western Rhode Island would be my tip to anybody. Yeah. So I was golfing at a very nice country club. And I said, what are your members like in Rhode Island? And they said, well, some businessmen, there's some young people. But locker number one, he's a Providence guy. And he called on the phone and said, I'd like locker number one if you could do that.

And everybody gave him locker number one. I'm not going to say his name. And I don't know who he is. But yeah, when a guy calls and says, I'd like locker number one. And everybody at the club says, that guy gets locker number one. And he's not a scratch golfer.

That's Rhode Island. To your point. There's a little edge to it. Yeah, I mean, like, Buddy Siancy was the mayor. Yes. And, you know, he ended up like. Prison. Yeah, he was in prison.

I think he wanted re-election after or something like that. Yes. Yeah, maybe a little Atwell, yeah, little Atwell Avenue action. I don't know what's going on. When I flew Portland to Bristol, the book I read was the Buddy Seiancy story. It's a great book. Art, literature, mob, Facebook. Ed Hill, it's a must read.

If you want to figure out Rhode Island in two and a half hours, the Buddy Sianci book is the book you read. Yeah, man, Little Rody. They weren't super helpful during some of the Revolutionary War stuff, but I'm glad that, you know, all the colonies were able to get over that because they abstain from some of the stuff. Guys are trying to pass. Like, hey, can you guys get on board here a little bit? And reading any of the books from that time period, I'm constantly, constantly laughing, especially somebody who's, identifies more than Massachusetts now. I don't even have my family been there 30 years.

How all the states were kind of like in their own lane in a really funny way. Like Vermont was originally new Connecticut. So all the towns like southern Vermont down, you know, middle Vermont all the way down to the border, like they're just named after other Connecticut towns. So like the people, if you think of like how people migrate, right? And it's like, well, I don't like what's going on here. Like I love that book Sapiens. It's one of my favorite quotes in any book that I've ever read in my entire life.

And basically after these clans, like the first upright. version of us, right, as humans. Once it was over 30 people, they'd just be like, look, this is unmanageable. You take, you know, Dolph and, you know, whatever that other guy's name is, maybe he doesn't have a name, and you guys start your own clan. Because after 30 people, like some people start slacking off and we don't want you around. So now if you can't feed off fuss, like whatever. So then you fast forward thousands of years. And it's like, okay, we're going to leave Europe because we're going to come here. And then you get to Plymouth. And the funniest thing about Plymouth is that they just were like, all right, we're good. And then after a couple

years, some guys walked north and found Boston and were like, man, this is way better. Look at this hard. But the people that said at Plymouth were like, we've done too much work here. But like, yeah, but all it is is like eels and mud in constant attacks. So Boston has like a deep, deep river. It's got an amazing harbor. It's much better for a city. In classic Massachusetts fashion, people were like, no, man, I just don't feel like going up there now. And then immediately people regret it. And so then you have guys who are in Connecticut who want to get away from Massachusetts because they want to do their own thing. And then some of them end up in Vermont. It just on and on and on, like, hey, I don't actually get along. I got here, put up in cabin,

and now I disagree with all of you. So now I'm going to go somewhere else on top of everything. Rhode Island was like a version of Massachusetts where they were like, we still kind of want to be in this area and identify with it. But we also want to like hold out on some things as well. So Rhode Island early on, depending on what you've read, can be, it's just kind of funny. Like, you're not mad about it. The funny part. Actually, the funniest stuff is how mad everybody would get at Massachusetts all the time. Like the first time George Washington saw the troops in Massachusetts, he was like,

are you kidding me? Who are these guys? Like, do they have homes? Like, their uniforms suck. Their equipment sucks. And like Virginia come marching up with polished muskets and nice linen shirts. And the Boston guys would just start making fun of them, which would be classic Boston. and then they'd get to these fights.

And then they'd have all these resolutions that were passed where they were always afraid. Like, we can't put the capital in Boston. We can't do this in Boston. Don't let Massachusetts decide on this one because we're just afraid they're going to succeed and be their own country. There was this constant threat of like Massachusetts guys. So when you read all this stuff as the Massachusetts guy, it ends up being really funny because you're like it actually still holds up 200 plus years later.

A little history lesson for you at the end of the podcast, Colin, which I know you love. Well, the first great line. Who was the traitor? Patrick Henry. What was his name? Patrick Cain, Blackhawks? What? No, it's in that era. Benedict Arnold?

The British are coming, the British are coming. Who did that? Paul Revere. I'm getting my iconic historic figures. Joseph Warren? He might have been the first George Washington if it weren't for Bunker Hill. A lot of people forget that. Joseph Warren. No relation to Elizabeth Warren? Wacky Funster on the left? Yeah, no. Slightly different tax plan, but I don't like to talk about taxes on the other thing anymore.

All right, Rosillo. Let's get out of here. Good to seeing you, buddy. Thanks, man. Make sure to check out the Dremont Green Show. I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective,

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A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild... It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.