The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Sean Payton to Broncos Reaction, Mike Silver on Niners QB Dilemma, Rodgers/Brady Landing Spots

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

First (3:00), Colin reacts to the news of the late breaking news of the Broncos hiring Sean Payton as their head coach, and details some of his extensive conversations with Payton about the pros and cons of the job. Then, longtime NFL writer - and host of the Open Mike podcast - Mike Silver joins Colin to discuss the Payton hiring, how Payton will attempt to turn around Russell Wilson, how the Niners will address their QB situation with Brock Purdy likely out for next season, and the most likely landing spots for Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers. Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right. Time for instant reaction. Sean Payton headed to the Denver Broncos. So this has been a long back and forth between Sean Payton and Denver. So I talked to Sean after he was on my show yesterday. So usually I talked to Sean for about five or six minutes when he's off FS1 with me. And we've been talking about this, private conversations about where he's going, where he's not. And so I went to dinner with Sean, spent about four and a half hours with him a couple weeks ago. He very much liked the Broncos ownership. his concerns were lack of cap flexibility.

And Russell Wilson's process, a little disconnected from younger players, he was concerned about it. I shared that with you. When you get into a situation like this, these new owners were going to reset the coaching salary market. So Sean Payton liked Fox. Sean Payton would have stayed at Fox. And Sean and I talked a lot about this.

In fact, we talked about this after the show Monday. The things he worried about were always the same. Cap flexibility. And let's get Russell Wilson to get back to playing Russell Wilson style, which is almost basketball style quarterback. Move the pocket. Move a lot. Instinctive.

He's one of the better guys that we've ever seen do that, right? So I'm not going to go into the. the Adam Schaefter Ian Rappaport space, they're going back and forth on whose job this was and whose job it wasn't. I was told very early that Denver really liked Sean. And it was Sean's job to lose. Now, money is a big component to any great job. The more risk, the more money any coach would want.

I do not think, and I said this before, I think you need an offensive coach in Denver. I don't think Tamiko Ryan's as talented as he is. You've got to figure out the Russell Wilson piece. I thought Harbaugh was a good fit, and I thought Sean Payton was a good fit. I thought you needed after Hackett a proven commodity at head coach and an offensive commodity at head coach. So Harbaugh and Peyton were really good choices. So, you know, when I had talked to Sean over the course of the last several weeks, he was always interested, always thought it was great, but there are gambles here.

It's not simple. Everybody in the internet wants to make everything simple. Let me tell you something. When you start talking about the salary involved here and the components in place, it's complicated. Big time agents, billionaire owners, Sean Payton's high profile had a lot of leverage. I love Jim Harbaugh, but he's a lot and wants a lot of control. And Sean doesn't necessarily need that personnel control. with like an opinion, doesn't need as much control.

So what I was told is the Bronco owners like that very much. But jobs like this are complicated. Initially, I thought it was Sean's. And I do think Denver's job, when you consider all the other openings, is the best because of good roster and key spots. And Russell Wilson's talented. You know, Carolina, I think that's an interesting job. But it's hard to find quarterbacks.

college football only gives you about one to two a year. So Carolina's job has a chance to be great. But what if they don't land Derek Carr or Garoppolo? And they miss on their next two quarterback draft picks. I mean, Arizona missed on one, went on another, thought they got a hit with Kyler Murray. Now, they may have a miss. He won't be available this year for much of it. And he's struggling to get along with people.

So this was always really complicated. But what I talked to Sean after Monday's show, in fact, he had just changed his avatar to Fox Sports. It wasn't that. It was a coaching avatar. He just changed it to a broadcasting avatar. And now he's taking the Broncos job. This went back and forth.

In fact, one of the tells with this is the Jim Harbaugh resurfacing rumors. Well, what does that tell you? It tells you that they wanted Sean Payton. They weren't agreeing on the number. And so suddenly, stories get out when somebody wants them out. Harbaugh's name surfaces. It's a negotiating ploy. In the end, there were two coaches where this can work, Harbonne Sean Payton.

There's a lot of things I like about it. There are other reasons where it's not an easy job. If this was an easy job, Sean Payton would have taken this thing three weeks ago. It's not. The Russell piece is going to take work. The offensive line needs fixing. Lack of cap flexibility. you got a hit on several draft picks, and they just gave up several to the Saints to get Sean Payton.

So it's complicated. But this stuff goes back and forth all the time. I had been in contact with people upstairs at my company with Sean Payton. It was a very respectful conversation. I thought Sean did a great job to keep me in the loop on it. And I congratulate, I think it was Schefter that broke the story. Good for him. That's what he does and does well.

I guess apparently I haven't followed it, but Ian Rappaport and Schaefter have a disagreement on social media about who was a lead candidate, who wasn't a lead candidate. I don't think this job is a good job for a first time head coach on the defensive side of the ball. I don't. I think it's going to be a lot of work to get this right. Also, something Sean and I talked about at dinner. You know, Sean's a smart guy. He thought about everything. And he said, listen, Mahalms twice a year and Herbert twice a year.

What if Brady goes to the Raiders twice a year? I mean, there's a lot of things at play here. It was never easy. It went back and forth. Teams leaked this and coaches, agents leak this. And that's the game. We've been talking about this. There were a bunch of job openings.

And about four or five days ago, we were all saying, why aren't they getting filled? Because I believe everybody was waiting for Sean Payton. Then Sean gave Carolina kind of the word, I'm not taking that job. So they go to Frank Reich. He interviewed with Arizona. He interviewed with Houston. And he told me about all these, or at least the Houston one.

We went into some detail on that. It's private. I'm not getting into it. It was unique. But this is not simple. The division's tough. Mahomes is amazing. Herbert now has a really good offensive coordinator.

I think in Callen Moore. I don't think winning is going to be easy. but I think in the end the Broncos had to hit a number for Sean to take the job and Sean loved working at Fox. Loved it. When I talked to him after the show, I thought he was going to stay at Fox.

Then all of a sudden, you get hard boss stuff out there. It's fascinating though, isn't it? Sean Payton's just too good, not to be coaching. I don't think I've ever learned more from a guest than what I've learned from Sean Payton. And all the years I've been doing this, 25, 30 years. I don't think I've ever learned more.

There are so many parts to coaching. Some of it's not even personnel and play calling and scheming. There's a lot of personalities you have to deal with. And he had such a good fit with Gail Benson and Mickey Loomis and Jeff Ireland with the Saints that it's going to be virtually impossible to recreate that in Denver. But what Sean wants to make sure of is, okay, this is not going to be easy. And this is very important. This is not going to be easy.

You have to commit to me. You have to commit long-term resources. What you pay me? Why? It's much easier to move off a coach. Cliff Kingsbury, salary is smaller. You got this quarterback. He's young in his prime.

Russell's not in his prime. Didn't look like he's in his prime. You can't move him for about three years minimum. So it's going to take a lot of work. It's not easy. There are things, though, about this job that are, you know, listen,

that are really, that sound great. A young running back who can be a star, left tackle, nice receivers, capable tied ends, really, really high-end corners. This is not

a rebuild. You've got to fix the offensive line and you've got to make Russell Wilson work, but it's not a rebuild. There was also, I'll be interested to hear about the staff, the defensive coordinator, the offensive coordinator. Sean and I have discussed that at length. I'm going to let that come out over the next probably 72 hours. There's a couple of names out there that have been connected to jobs but are not official. This could end up being a really, really strong staff. I'll leave it at that. But I'm happy for him.

Smart guy. The league is pivoted to offense. This was a job for an offensive head coach. Absolutely. Harbond, Peyton. It will be a lift. Some really good pieces. But, you know, Russell is a,

unique personality. A lot of people took shots at him. When he left Seattle, you don't see a lot of that with star quarterbacks. And then he played a little better at the end of the year when Hackett was gone. That's encouraging. Jerry Judy, I think it was, stuck up for him in the Denver locker room. That was encouraging. So I can't wait to watch it. I'm not sure what it's going to look like. And that's, to me, the best stories. I'm not exactly sure what it's going to look like. I'm not exactly sure what it's going to look like. I think suddenly, unless Aaron Rogers goes to the Jets, Denver will be the most interesting team in the NFL this year.

Now, if Aaron goes to the Jets, that's going to be fascinating. But Russell Wilson and Sean Payton, because Sean Payton has definitive views on how to run a football operation. And Russell Wilson, going to have to make some changes. How easily does he make those changes? I'm not sure. Things I like about the job, things I don't love about the job. Anyway, instant reaction.

Sean Payton, Denver Broncos. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

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So, you know, Mike, I spent five hours one night with Sean Payton a couple weeks ago. And you and I, you're a real reporter. I occasionally have relationships, but I'm not in the story breaking business. It's what you do and do it very, very well. But we sat down and, you know, Sean and I talked about everything. The Russell Wilson piece, the owner piece, the Mahomes Herbert four times a year piece. and the Harbaugh piece. And in our relationships with coaches,

I always feel like a responsibility to tell the audience as much as I can, and I will hear. Not everything. There are some things I want to protect my relationship with Sean. I don't want to get into the whizzing match between Ian Rappaport and Adam Schaefter, but I felt when I had dinner with Sean very strongly that he was the coach, that he knew there were obstacles. And I felt, but this is my takeaway,

that you're going to have to pay for Sean because this job is not easy. There's some good stuff. It's not a rebuild. But the Russell Wilson thing is real. Is that how you view this situation that, that the price point, I mean, that's why I talked to Sean Monday after my show. I thought he was a Fox employee. I think this thing came down to Denver making a financial commitment to Sean,

letting him know, hey, we know it's not easy. We're going to take the pay scale to a different level. Is that your interpretation? Well, I think there's a couple of things. First of all, it's a leap of faith on both sides. for whoever was going to take that job. You've got at least a year with Russell Wilson and you pray it doesn't look like it did this last year,

possibly two years, because it really does impact your cap. You've lost a lot of draft capital because of that trade as well. And you are in that division with Bohemes and Herbert. And, you know, that's kind of a, you know, something that would give a candidate with options pause, even possibly Domingo Ryan's. He may have had his other reasons for wanting Houston, or he may have had the choice

made for him and just read the tea leaves. But that was one thing. If you're looking to hire Sean Payton, you know the price tag is high. You have to give up draft capital. That's especially sensitive if you're the Broncos because you just gave it. up all that draft capital for Russell. You got the one back for Chubb. You're giving that away now. If you're the Texans, you could say, yeah, we've got draft capital. We got all that Deshaun Watson loot. But you are necessarily, you know, weakening yourself. So you're giving up

draft capital. You're giving up money. Now, that was a strength of the Broncos job. They do have lots of money. They do have the Brussels issue. You know, George Payton is a very, very well-like GM. I think if Sean was going to come in somewhere and turn the GM into essentially a director of player personnel. George is someone that you could see that relationship working out, at least

in the short term. He's super well liked. He goes with the flow. But my read on the Broncos from afar is that they knew that Sean was expensive, but both in terms of draft capital and money. And they knew that he came in with a little swag.

He wasn't kissing the ring of the Walmart and, oh, wow, I just want to, you know, he's basically saying, you should hire me because I'm awesome. So you also had to go down parallel paths before you decided whether you were going to do that. And it just seemed to be that at least the public facing side of it, remember, these are the richest people, you know, there are. they're not used to really being criticized, like, say, NFL owners normally get criticized. And people are looking at it going, well, you asked Harbaugh. He said no.

You flew off to see him again. He still said no. Dan Quinn dropped out. And Domeko Ryans chose the Texans over you. So whether that's an accurate assessment, because I think there were a lot of moving parts. Also, by the way, someone leaked that David Shaw was the favorite. So now it really looks like four different people that you either couldn't get or didn't want. And now you're like, well, how are we going to not look like these, you know, bundling billionaires?

What are we going to do? Let's swing big, baby, because money is a strength. And, you know, them paying Sean Payton, whatever they paid, Sean Payton is like you and I, you know, exchanging a burger. basically. Well, and here's the thing. There are parts of the job that are really good. Like in the NFL, you've got a talented quarterback, a starting left tackle, pretty good perimeter weapons, a young running back who was hurt, but people really like. Yeah.

Some of the best corners in the sport. And you've got some defensive personnel that can, you know, that can move around. You also, it's a big brand. And you can, as you know, you can get draft capital pretty quickly, move people here there. You can. But I said this in my 10 minute ramble before you. If this was an easy job, Sean would have taken it a month ago or three weeks ago.

I think the Russell piece scares people. But I also think there's a part of Sean. Like, okay, so I used this when the 40-inaries traded for Christian McCaffrey, I had to write a column immediately. for The Chronicle. And I led with something of the effect of this was a move based on or born of arrogance. And I say that lovingly, by the way, as a fellow arrogant. Well, that was a great column. I read that.

But I mean, like, I know what it's like. I believe in my abilities, you know, probably to a ridiculous degree at times. And if you're Kyle Shanahan, you're like, oh, man, I know it costs a lot. But if I get Christian McCaffrey and I put it. him in my offense and I like it's going to be insane so you I think you want your coach to have that streak so look I've known Sean Payton since the early days and I love him and one reason I do is because he believes that Sean Payton is really really good at this so in a way I think you're like yeah I can do that and by the way like there might be more attractiveness because everyone

thinks it's a bad job and everyone thinks Russell can't be salvaged. And if you struggle at first, people might give you a little bit of a leeway there. But if you don't and you come in and make the playoffs next year, people are going to go, Sean Peyton, man, look what he did. And Doug Peterson just kind of did it. He had an easy division. But, you know, Sean Peyton is one of the absolute best of the world at what he does. And he knows it. And, his knowledge of that is part of what makes him who he is. And that's what you're paying. Yeah.

And I felt, I said this early that I thought this was a job for an offensive coach. An example. I think Brian Flores is kind of a fascinating hire in Arizona. Special teams defense in Miami got good in a week. And he's an ass kicker. He won't take, he's an alpha. He won't take any kind of. stuff. Right. But Mike and I've been on this for a year and it's tedious to the audience,

but the league is changing. Belichick's struggling now. Andy Reid is the new Belichick. And this job, the defense is so talented. You can get a good coordinator. I think you got to you got to massage the Russell piece. I think it needed, and this is not a shot at Damico, I think it needed a veteran offensive coach who is a veteran offensive coach who is dealt with drama with quarterbacks, with coordinators. This is a solvable job, but Mike, it's a hard job, right? Yeah, and going back to the Flores thing, okay, so first of all, you and I have talked about this publicly and privately.

Brian Flores did not get fired because he was not doing a good job as a coach. He got fired because of interpersonal abrasiveness, really, and he was not getting along with a lot of people, including first and foremost his incumbent quarterback, who we saw with a little love this year. And some scabatic brilliance was a lot different. So I'm a little scared when you say that. I get why. And look, first of all, I want Brian Flores to get another job at some point.

I do believe there's systemic racism in hiring practices. And, you know, he had the guts to, you know, sue. and I hope that that is not factoring into whether it gets another job. I'd be happy for him. On the other hand, man, it's the same thing as like, the Broncos can't just say we goofed on Russell goodbye yet, at least. The Cardinals can't do that with Kyler. And given Brian Flores track record with, too, like, I agree.

You want to draw the line and start changing the paradigm. And by the way, Sean Payton's going to do the same thing with Russell. John's going to be like, Kay Russ, that six-person team that follows you around the facility, they're gone, buddy. And you know how you have a bigger office than I do? Let's either switch or I'm giving that office to, you know, whoever. So that's going to happen. But, I mean, I think Sean has great people skills and we'll get that done. And Russell will have, you know, the emotional intelligence to take it in the spirit it's intended.

if Brian Flores comes in and starts, you know, treating Kyler like dirt, that look, you paid Kyler. You tried to put a clause in his contract that made him look like a 12-year-old and then actually backed off even worse. You acknowledge that he doesn't study enough in your eyes. Then it looked terrible because you tried to put it in the contract. And then you're like, fine, fine, don't even study. But here's all the money. he's injured and speed is part of what makes him great and you know now you're going to bring in someone who's like hey Kyler man

we don't like your act at all and you either get with it or that might not be the best thing organizationally either I think the cardinals have to treat Kyler unfortunately for them the way the Broncos have to treat Russell right now make it work in the short term and if you're Sean Peyton you have the credibility to get Russell to buy in. If you are Brian Flores and Kyler's not Russell either, I think that scares me a little bit. And again, I'm not saying Brian Flores is a really good head coach.

Hope he gets another job. He'll deserve it. That particular one scares me a little. So one of the things that is a reality, and I've pushed against, and maybe because I haven't been offered this level of money. But sometimes you just get offered money you can't say no to. And we've seen coaches take jobs and I've seen actors do movies.

I'm like, this is absurd. What are you? And then you see the price tag. And you're like, okay, I get it. I understand it. So I believe. I believe that what the Broncos paid Sean Payton, and this is why Harbaugh came in again, I think Sean liked working in television and new next year.

You've got two great college quarterbacks who are both guys that can start. I think in the end, and it won't come out maybe for a while, could this just have been, you know, 25 million a year? I'll figure it out, right? I mean, you know, there's always a number for sure. And yeah, I mean, I don't know exactly how it played out again, because we saw the public facing part of it. And the owners, the new owners were looking like amateurs. They have some, it's a less attractive job in some ways,

along with the fact that it gets even less attractive if you have to give up a one and a two when you're already strapped to hire this specific person. What is their strength that they could offer? We are so rich that when you hear numbers like that, what we hear is,

yeah, I'll take fries with that. Go back to my burger analogy. I mean, it's just not the way that, you know, a normal human would think of it. Now, we saw Tepper do that in North Carolina, and that ruffled the feathers of the billionaires club. He was joining, whatever. But I think the problem is that he did it with Matt Ruhl, who, it turned out, was not a guy

who could come into the NFL, snap his fingers, and make it awesome. But Sean Payton's as close to that as what we have. Right. He is as close to, you could put him in an NFL context and have a very strong belief that he's going to succeed. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. So you know the Bay Area, you cover the Niners. So I said there's a tipping point for everybody. You can be a patient person in your life, but snap eventually if you're pushed too far. You can be a giving person

and then feel at some point you're being taken advantage of ask for something. I believe there was a moment in the third quarter when or whenever it was that Josh Johnson got hurt. Purdy was second quarter. First drive of the third quarter. Okay. And I thought to myself, wait a minute,

because I always thought Brady to the Niners was a bridge too far, his kid was in Miami. Yeah. And I thought Shanahan sitting there thinking, Tray Lancert, Garoppolo hurt, Purdy hurt, Josh Johnson, I'm snapping the ball to a rounder. running back. And I could see Kyle thinking, I love the Purdy's story. Can you give me somebody at 6-4 that doesn't get hurt? Can you just get me? And here's the thing, Mike, as you know,

Trent Williams, mid-30s, Kittle, Christian McCaffrey, and old 27. This defense is young. This offense is not. And I, if Kittle retired after next year, nobody would be surprised. I sat and thought to myself, I know they love Purdy. But Sean's sitting there thinking, can you just get me a 17 game starter? It makes me think Brady's a possibility now. Well, here's the thing. On Sunday morning, he wasn't. And I had reported this.

But, you know, I referenced the great Oakland poet Todd Shaw, who most people know as too short. It was all good just a week ago because I had written. It's over. We've talked about Brady, you know, that we've talked about all sorts of scenarios. It's over. Purdy has shown Kyle that he's the guy. Trey Lance might stay in a nominal competition, but he'll lose it. They'll try and develop them. They'd listen to trades. I don't think the trade value would be high. Jimmy's going to go get paid somewhere else. But that's what, that's it. And Brady's not coming. But, and here's why that was the plan.

unequivocally because it was a it was a unique situation in that you have a guy on a rookie deal, not just a rookie deal, the lowest rookie deal, 900,000 next year as the 262nd pick. You're not even eligible to renegotiate with Perni and pay him more till after 2024. So you have two seasons where you pay, and if your backups, Trey Lance, he's on a rookie deal. Maybe you get a veteran. But like, you have so much relative. cap power that you can pay Nick Bosa, what you're going to do. You've, you pay George Kittle, you've paid Fred Warner, you paid Trey Greenlaw, you paid Chavarious Ward, you're going to pay Hufanga

eventually, you know, Eric Armstead got paid, Trent Williams is paid, Christian McCaffrey, and you're like, yeah, and we're going to go get some more guys. It's such a unique position, and Purdy had shown Kyle so much by Kyle's standards that it's a wrap, done. The only thing that could have changed it is not like, oh, pretty broke his ankle. He'll be ready in, you know, August, because you know he'll be okay. He tore the older collateral ligament. Tommy John's surgery is on the table, so you don't know if it's six months or a year. You don't know if after six months or a year, he slinging it the same way.

and you have this team, as you said, that Hal Ushik, George Kiddell, Trent Williams, Christian McCaffrey by running back standards. You are not young, and the window is right now. So now you can't think that way, even if you still think Brock Purdy is your future best case, which they probably do, but you've got to go, oh, man. And by the way, I have scar tissue on this. As a young beat writer, I covered Joe Mudd's. Montana. In 1991, his elbow felt later in the training camp. It was an ulnar nerve, I believe.

They did surgery. He missed an entire season. Steve Young came in, won the passing title. The next year, they were competing in camp, which I think it was a real competition. Montana hurt the elbow again. Something wasn't right. They had another surgery. He came back the second half of the regular season finale when they'd already clutched everything. Steve Young was the about to be the MVP. I think back then he'd already been named MVP. And Joe Botaneda came off the bench for the second half and the Candlestick Park acted like, you know,

the Messiah had returned, which he was there. And, you know, they weren't like booing the MVP, but they were like, sweet, the MVP's out. And then Joe was Steve's backup, by the way, in that epic 1992 championship game and then he got traded. So I think it'll be okay. but and Ben Rafflesberger kind of came back from an elbow thing but I'm not one of those people who's

like oh cool six months he's going to be just fine I hope so I don't think Ben I don't think Ben a bigger stronger body I don't think he was ever quite the same like I don't and you know and Tommy John really wasn't quite the same by the way the man the surgery is named after I mean it's gotten better in baseball but you know you so And Purdy wasn't exactly, you know, Josh Allen, arm strength-wise. Right. He's fine. But so, okay, so now, here we are.

So now what's going on? Right now they're having these discussions internally because it's all going to play out. And these are the discussions. Brady? Well, he's 46. Even though he doesn't really get injured except for the one ACL, he's 46. If you cite him as you're all in plan and a 46-year-old gets hurt, shame on you. By the other hand, it's Tom Brady.

He works really well in this way. If you still want to keep the purdy window alive, I hope for the best. You can tell Tom one year, make it cap-friendly. Tom will take a cap-friendly deal to the relative. And so that makes sense. The other thing you're thinking about very hard is Aaron Rogers. And you're like, okay, we tried everything to trade for him two years ago,

even after making it. the trade that they for the pick that they used to take tray lands up to the draft that night they were trying to convince the packers to talk to them um he's older 38 can be 39 uh or maybe i might be off no i think you're right you're right yeah and uh you know not everyone plays at a high level till they're 45 that's freakish only one person does that but you could presume the way the you know, the cap charge for Rogers with that option pickup, you're going to owe a lot of guaranteed money, but the cap charge would only be 31 something million for 23. But you're not doing that as a one-year thing. If you do Rogers, you're like two, three years for sure.

And, you know, and both Brady and Rogers, especially Rogers, change your cap calculus. Now, yeah, you sign both, of course, and spread it out. But you're making some harder decisions. you know all right final topic Danny Aange made a career Boston and now Utah jazz finding desperate people the KG to the

Brooklyn deal the Rudy Gobert to the T-Wolfs deal which got like nine different pieces Bella check in his prime made a lot of deals with the Browns and the poorly run bills and dolphins who aren't poorly run anymore

is that like they always say the best hitters in baseball get them majority of their hits up the three and four starters, not the aces, right? And so I don't know if Aaron Rogers is a great fit with the Jets, but well-run organizations have a history of finding desperate trading partners. And I look at the very stable packers with Aaron Rogers. Robert Sala's got a win, Joe Douglas got a win. the owners have a history of reaching.

And I look at that and I think, Nathaniel Hackett needs to rebuild his reputation with the guy who helped him get there. That's where Aaron to the Jets, a stable organization that's ready to move off, I can ship him over there. It does feel like you could get the, I mean, listen, they've got some good young players for the Jets.

They need the left tackle in a quarterby. I can see him saying, here's a one, a two and a one. And Green Bay going, that's where that one feels kind of possible. And I could see all that. And I could see Aaron going, I like the Niners. So I'm sorry that you won't be getting the one, two, and a one. But I will retire if you do that stupid trade. But if you trade me to the Niners for, hold on, let me text John Lynch.

a three, and a conditional two, if I, you know, whatever, I will make the money right and you'll be able to move on, rebuild. But yeah, I know you're right. So that's what's always fascinating. You know, fans understandably live in this fantasy football like reality where it's like, why can't we just do that? We'll trade this for this. or, you know, it's like, Derek Carr, well, you know, they're not going to send them there.

Why would they cut them? And we always forget that, you know, the money and the cap and the players' other leverage points, like, I don't like you or I don't want to play for you, especially when they're old enough to walk away. You know, those are going to factor in, too. And as you know, Colin, these conversations are all going on unofficially. you know there's players are figuring out their markets teams are figuring out what's possible agents and coaches and general managers and players are all having conversations that will

coalesce at the combine if not before when everyone's in person and drinking and there'll be media people involved as well not not too many of us a lot of people who act like they will but a few of us will actually be in those rooms. And, you know, we might be drinking too. Yeah. So I just think it's something, you know, Aaron, I don't think Aaron wants to retire. But when you start talking about it, you're at least considering it.

I do think Aaron wants to take that last $100 million. And he's still really, really good. I know he still is. I contend that Titans make sense. because he's never had a consistent great defense and a great consistent run game and he'd have both in a wonky division. Do you buy the Titans in Aaron at all? I think he liked, I think Vrable's his kind of guy. In a way, yeah.

I can see that one going either way. Yeah. I mean, look, like, you know, if Aaron Rogers plays like he did in 2021 and 2020, then Bill Belichick would be like, hey. you know that podcast you do every week with Pat McAfee where you just say whatever you want and put a lot of pressure on the organization. Yeah, but you know, it's okay. I just keep doing it because you're so good.

But if you're playing like Aaron Rogers of 2022, I think Mike Vrable and a lot of other coaches would be like, yo, yo, yo, yo, like, not like what he says on a podcast. It's not big a deal. It's just an example. But I think, you know, Aaron is going to be high. maintenance. Tom in many ways is going to be high maintenance. And I think, again, people with strong senses of self attract each other. So you would say on paper, would Kyle Shanahan, who wants everything to be done his way, and Tom Brady, who likes a lot of control at the line, or

Aaron Rogers, who likes full control at the line, possibly be able to coexist. They're philosophically so unaligned in terms of how they view the way the offense should conduct itself. I feel like Kyle Shanahan gets in a room with one of those guys and they're both like, dude, you are so amazing to play quarterback. Dude, I love the way you call a game. Like, we'll figure it out. And sometimes that ends up being hard and sometimes it doesn't. But I think people with a lot of faith in their own abilities are,

more likely to embrace challenges that other people would go, whoa, that's too much. And they're more likely to want to do it together because they, you know, they view themselves as rare and they're attracted to. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Mike, Silver, open Mike at the volume. A lot of stuff today.

Sean Payton to the Broncos. I will say this years ago, Tony Romo, I heard this story about Tony Romo and Jerry Jones, like 20 years ago or whatever it was, 15 years ago, that they were negotiating. And Tony Romo said, listen, I'm going to make you overpay for me because then I know you're committed to me. And I think that was Sean Payton's one of his really strong hands. Yeah, we're going to reset the market because people as rich as you. I'm a rounding error if I don't work. Yeah. So I want it to sting if you got to write $125 million check.

Yeah. At least your accountant will call and go reconsider. So I. Well, I mean, that's why Jed York, to his credit, after Harbaugh's gone, then Tom Sulla won and done, Chip Kelly won't have done. When he finally said it like Kyle was like, I'm giving him and Lynch six-year deals. you know, which is way high for first timers, because I'm just making a statement to them and to everyone.

We're done with this one and done thing. By the way, Jerry, here's the brilliance of Jerry Jones, or some people would say it's not brilliant, I thought it was. After T.O. came to the Cowboys and the infamous push-up or, you know, sit up, the next question and all that. But that dispute in Philly was a, you're not paying me what I'm worth. That's what fueled T.O.'s, you know, drama.

And Jerry Jones is like, I'm going to get his money right. And I'm going to get the best out of this guy. And I'm going to show him that his money's right. And, you know, in essence, I'll overpay because I think his psyche will change so much, this particular guy. You know, and Jerry overpaid for the stadium because he was trying to make a statement to the world. he thought the stadium would become an event in it of itself. And if it sounded even more expensive, that was a win, you know, and practice facility too. So, you know, and those of us who don't have billions to make statements with, you know, can only theorize about these things.

But I do agree with you. I think you show Sean something. And, you know, you're betting on a guy who, who. who thinks that he's one of the few people, if not the only person, who could actually fix it. And I get it. That's cool. Mike Silver, great stuff, buddy.

Good seeing you. I appreciate you stopping by him. Great seeing you. I'll see you in person very soon. Make sure to check out the Dremon Green show. I brought Dremont Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope. also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady.

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