The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Shedeur’s Solid Debut, Packers Win The NFC North, Start Jaxson Dart, Cowboys Implosion?

Episode Date: August 11, 2025

Colin is joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to talk all things NFL. They recap their weekend together in Chicago at the LIV Tour (3:15), before giving their reaction to Shedeur Sanders making his debut in the NFL preseason and why he’ll need to be a high IQ/EQ quarterback if he’s going to succeed (5:30). They debate how many games will transpire before Shedeur gets thrust into the starting job (12:00), and highlight Mike McDaniel’s effort to build a tougher culture by playing the Dolphins starters (16:00). They survey the NFC North and Colin predicts the Packers will win the division (31:30), and argue the Vikings roster is just a quarterback away (40:00). They laud Jim Harbaugh for drafting Joe Alt instead of a wide receiver in light of the devastating injury to LT Rashawn Slater and discuss the domino effect it will have on the Chargers (46:00) They react to Jaxson Dart’s debut for the Giants and Colin argues that the Giants should start him this season to give themselves cover to draft a quarterback high in 2026 if Dart flames out (58:45). They discuss the precipitous drop off at the end of Russell Wilson’s career (1:03:30) and weigh the chances of a Cowboys midseason implosion as Jerry Jones begins to mirror the last few years of Al Davis with the Raiders (1:11:00). Finally, they debate what will happen with the LIV Tour golfers like Phil Mickelson and Brooks Koepka if they aren’t able to get another big payday from LIV (1:20:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

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Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Volume. All right, welcome in, kind of the start, pretty much the start of our Sunday football podcast, which go an hour plus. As John was in Chicago this weekend with me at the live tour event in Chicago, which was really a good time.

I was thinking about this before I came on. We got a lot of football to talk about for the next hour. But like hockey, I never know if things work on TV. Some stuff works on TV, some doesn't. But in person, the live tour event's great. So I strongly recommend it. I am for the entrepreneur. I like new stuff and big swings.

So good for the live tour. It was fantastic. A real event, concerts, music everywhere, up close and personal with the golfers. John was in Chicago this weekend. So let's just start with that. Your interpretations. I don't know if John, if you could be a little dehydrated after our weekend. It was a long flight home.

We had a good 36 hours, hell of a run. I mean, beautiful. I was telling everyone there, I had never been to Chicago outside of the airports. Beautiful. The suburbs are awesome. I mean, it's green. You were showing me where you live. And obviously, you have a beautiful house.

We had a good time. We watched some football, watch some golf. watch some golf, hung out with Scott O'Neill, who's the CEO is, you know, the one thing with Live golf, the negativity, a lot of it stem from Greg Norman, who I would say on the popularity chart and his support is pretty low.

And that includes, you know, the players on Live. So I think he is not a golf guy, which I think helps. The PGA Tour brings in an NFL guy, not a golf guy, which helps. So they look at it more from a business sense. I actually left there feeling pretty optimistic, big picture.

that things will get figured out, maybe not like in a month, but in the next 18 months, so they will get some progress. We can stop complaining because I know I complained. But, yeah, Chicago was awesome. The Tito's was flowing and the food was good. We had some chicken parham last night. It was a long, we had a long day Saturday. I mean, we were out in about.

We thought it was 515 at my house. We were exhausted. And then in-laws showed up, and we stayed up until 10.30. And the Tito started flowing. in the Bombay gin, and it was a good, we're just all watching NFL football. Your family shows up with a full bottle of gin. I said, geez, college, you guys are ready to party.

So I will say, I want to start talking about Shadour Sanders. We'll start with there. So I was just saying today, to make it, to simplify it, these aren't the exact percentages, but I would say 50% of quarterback is traits. You know, and occasionally a player like Big Ben or Cam have remarkable traits. So those traits are size,

movement, athleticism, toughness, you know, all the obvious stuff you can see on TV. The other 50%, and it may be a smaller percentage, is film study, galvanizing the locker room, kind of obsessive nature, pre-snap, that's the stuff we can't see. So if you are Cam or Big Ben or Josh Allen, where your traits are like otherworldly, top 1% of quarterbacks in my lifetime, Dan Marino had that, then you don't have to maybe have the quite the self-awareness, the film study, the pre-snap excellence. You don't always have to be a great teammate or work out as hard like Big Ben didn't in the off-season. So Shanoor Sanders, to me, college and pro, the traits are fine.

He's mobile enough. He's accurate. I think moving and stationary is accurate. His size is fine. He's not top-heavy like Will Levis, who feels all chest and arms. and he's not spindly like a Matt Reiner or Teddy Bridgewater. He's 6-2-218, very salt. He's not a weight room guy, but it's just a very, he's comfortable playing.

He runs backwards sometimes. You know, you've got to stop that because he's not athletic enough to escape. My question's always been, his traits are okay. So he's got to be great film study, EQ IQ, pre-snap, galvanizing teammates. And then I see the speeding tickets, legendary, the New York giant stuff, which has been now reported multiple times. And I had it validated again last week. It was a disaster. But my takeaway watching him was he's comfortable.

It looks a little like college. He's an accurate thrower. Doesn't have a huge arm. Moves okay. And when he's got to make big throws in the red zone, he's pretty damn good at it. That's my take, yours. Well, I would say the pre-draft stuff was real. but it's real for a lot of players

that end up falling in the draft and then they go on to make plays and become good players and none of it matters ever again. So I think Shador, I think there are a lot of different angles here. First and foremost, his dad,

which is a huge reason, right? He is a very famous and polarizing individual is one of the most gifted athletes in the history of American professional sports and he's one of the best football players. And he wouldn't tackle. And we all say,

Yeah, LT's and Reggie White, probably the two best defensive players. Dion's probably top five. He wouldn't tackle. And he bragged about it. He's like, they don't pay me to tackle because he could cover. Well, he's not that level of a talent. But he is very instinctive and a natural football player. And I think two things we don't talk about enough with quarterbacks.

One is always toughness. I mean, you've got to be tough. The best players were always tough. Brady hung his hat on jumping right back up after he got hit. Ben Johnson's been all over Caleb about body language when you got. get hit. Shador's tough. So he brings that to the table.

And then there's just a natural feel to his game. I mean, he's a pretty accurate player. And his two, you know, definitely the first touchdown, I think, is when he was rolling left. Like, that's an instinctive layered throw. But he is not alone. He is with a large group of players. There are a ton of guys that were drafted on the third day all over the league that

guess what are going to go on to be really good players. Some will be Hall of Famers, Richard Sherman, Jason Kelsey. in this class that will be household names. And then there are a ton of guys drafted in the first, second, and third round who are not going to be any good, who within a couple, two, three, four years will not be on their team and will be considered bus and not good draft picks. It's the NFL. Now, Shador is the headliner, but, like, again, his own team,

his own team took another quarterback, two rounds above him. And the reason Shador was there in the fifth, and you and I have talked about it, you mentioned the Giants, so the bad teams, the interactions were weird. He wouldn't talk with the good teams. So the good teams that all have quarterbacks, obviously, they would have been interested if they had good interaction. They're like, he won't talk. We have no interaction.

Every player beside the lock, cop, two, three, four guys, Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter might not talk to Andy Reid and the bills, right? But most every other player does. Yeah. Right. Look at Trayvon Henderson, the good running back for the Patriots. They had a sweet run back the other day. I guarantee he talked to every single team in the league.

And every team felt good. Obviously, he got drafted in the second. You could argue he could have gone 20. If he had fallen to 45, every team would have been interested in a guy like that. And they talked to him. But Chador wasn't talking to everybody. So as he's falling in the draft, good teams are passing on him. Good teams need backup quarterbacks.

But they're like, and this is what I heard. We just don't know him. He wouldn't talk to our quarterback. But most of these guys, I think a lot of scouts did not think he was a first round pick. I do agree. Like, that was a narrative. That's true. but most people thought he was a pretty good college football player.

Like he's better than most. Like should have gone somewhere, second, third, fourth. You know, it's a pretty, like a lot of guys can go in the second. If they don't, sometimes they go in the fourth. It's not that crazy. He clearly had a little larger of a drop. And it was one preseason game and everyone acting like he's John Elway. Let's pump the brakes a little bit.

But you're giving your opportunity, you take advantage. And I get from the fan base, and you and I were talking about this over the weekend, they're not going to have much of a rope with no one wants to watch Kenny Pickett take a snap. Joe Flack was 40 years old. Dylan Gabriel's already injured. Listen, I think it was a great night for Cleveland because my prediction has been, Shadour becomes the backup. They trade Kenny Pickett for a sixth or a seventh.

And then Dylan Gabriel gets behind Shadur because the fans, I mean, if they go 0 and 4, Shadur's going to get play. The fans are going to want it. And Haslam listens to Sports Talk Radio. He's very much connected to the media. He is listening to his fan. I mean, he's the guy that said he drafted Johnny Mansell because he talked to, in his words, a homeless guy.

So it's like, Haslam is very much connected to his fan base. And so, and I think Choudoir, and I said this from the beginning, Dion did him no favors. He really butchered the pre-draft stuff. He's not talented enough to just say, I'm not talking to you. He's not, I mean, Cam Newton's one of the few you're like, Cam's going to get drafted. Big, tall, fast, strong, may have been the most dominant SEC. player have ever seen when the SEC was clearly the best conference. But I mean, the Big 12,

you know, stunk and Shadur didn't win a lot of games. But as you said, most of that stuff falls by the wayside. There's been a, I mean, listen, if you can play in this league, they've forgiven felons. Like, they forgive a lot. So it might take is, I still think he's a little too unsurious for me. I think his judgment is not a strength. But when you watch him play, and this is why fans get excited, I thought he was comfortable looking. Like, he just feels kind of comfortable, just slinging it in the red zone. He's not frenetic. He didn't have nervous feet. He just kind of plays. And he looked like, okay, it's fine. I don't know Stapansky personally, but I know I've been around coaches and know a lot of them, and I know the way they

think. Just because he makes plays, like, people would be like, why don't start him week one? Well, coach would be like, well, he doesn't know the playbook yet or all of it, right? They're not comfortable enough. He's not ready. It's an easy thing for him to say. Fans never want to hear that. Honestly, a lot of times the front office, well, dumb it down. Give him 10 plays. Because you said 0 and 4, I just pulled up their schedule. They're playing the Bengals week one at home. Let's just say in this hypothetical world, they're down 17 nothing at half time to the Bengals week one. They would start chanting his name.

And this also gets back to my theory of like, I don't believe Jimmy has them for a second when he's like, yeah, I never thought we would draft him. It was just up to those two guys. Because these coaches, part of the reason they probably weren't that interested in the sense once they draft Dylan Gabriel,

because it does bring this. We're talking preseason two touchdowns and like he should start week one. And they go, he's a fifth round pick. And they'd also say, if we didn't take him, who the hell was going to take him? There's also... It looks like a lot of people were lined up to take them. There's a Tebow thing here, but Shadur can actually play.

Like Tebow to me. For sure. Yeah, and Tebow got overdrafted. Shadur, let's be honest, he was underdrafted in the fifth round. So Tebow was overdrafted, but couldn't play, and Shadour was underdrafted. It actually can play a little bit. I mean, to me, I think, you know, that's the downside. Bill Parcells used to always say, don't be a celebrity quarterback.

everybody's a celebrity now. What you don't want now, it's morphed into. You don't want a celebrity backup. You don't want Kaepernick, Tebow, right? Johnny Manzeller, Sinoor's a backup. So that will be Cam. Cam. Cam, Belichick's like, we love you, but they just chose Mac Jones.

So it used to be, you don't want a celebrity quarterback. It's over. NIL. Caleb's a celebrity. I'm sorry. The conferences, the TV ratings are huge. So that will be his issue. But I think if you're a Browns fan,

whether you're going to keep him or move him, I thought it was a great night. You should be excited. It's really fun, and I think he moved himself into number two. I think Stafansky sees the value. They want to accumulate picks for next year's draft.

You can get something, I think, for Kenny Pickett. Well, to me, I've never been a Kenny Pickett guy. I've always, just as a player in general, before he's on the Browns, I just assumed Flacco was going to be the week one starter because he did a couple years ago. Yeah. The head coach likes them.

There are some people saying like, trade them, right? Trade him to the Rams, you know, if Stafford was or whoever. There is no way after that performance, Jimmy Haslam is allowing a trade. Even if he ends up not being good, they're probably not going to be very good, and he's going to get a ton of starts, and they're going to get a front row seat. And who knows? Maybe they get lightning in a bottle. He's actually pretty solid.

And they don't have to use their picks on a quarterback. But there is no way. It is a wasted conversation. be like, they should trade them somewhere else. There is no way. Jimmy Haslam is because he goes, well, we're not going to be that good. At least if we got Shador Sanders and Miles Garrett maybe trying to be defensive player of the year, even if we win five, six games, at least we're one of the main stories in the league.

It's got a little Jerry Jones quality to it, doesn't it? It does. Okay, so Dolphins Bears, I watched almost the entire game today. So this is what I thought was interesting. So I've said this now for, this has been kind of one of my off-season rants. what Mike McDaniel is smart. I don't doubt it. The media loves him.

He almost looks like a sports writer. He almost talks like one. He's sort of snarky. Not the coolest guy in the room, but my question was always, can he create a culture? Same with Lincoln Riley, by the way. I know they're smart.

I know they're good play designers and play callers, but a big part of football, Dan Campbell, Nick Sariani, Pete Carroll, hell, Andy Reid, is Shanahan creating toughness and culture. So the quotes from Joe Shad, who covers them, used to be at ESPN, good guy. Joe Shad said today, Mike McDaniel played starters today.

And the reason was he is emphasizing, listen to this, culture, physicality, and accountability. So Mike McDaniel's hearing it. And this has been my knock on the dolphins. Like Caleb didn't play, we can talk about that in a second. Toa did. And I think Mike McDaniel is seeing what people like me, and you have said for a year. What are you? You can't build football programs on speed on the perimeter in. The chiefs build theirs on Creed Humphrey, Joe Tuny at the time, Mahomes, Andy Reed,

and Travis Kelsey. You build in out. You can find speed. It's hard to find great centers and quarterbacks and great interior linemen and left tackles. And so I think Mike McDaniels, to his credit, is acknowledging, you know, the culture here feels broken. We were the fastest team in the league, but it didn't get us anything. And I appreciate him acknowledging it, but playing starters is a message, it seems to me. Well, I've always been a believer. I mean, there are some sayings in football that you could walk into every building and, you know, looks like Tarzan plays like Jane in one scouting term.

And I think this works to this, too, is, you know, a leper doesn't change its spots. I think when a coach, Pete Carroll talks about this, he realized he tried to change and it blew up in his face and he had to say true to who he was. Remember when he studied with John Wooden and he got the USC job,

he's like, I'm a fun, happy guy. I'm not Belichick. Belichick is a grumpy guy. They're very authentic to themselves. But toughness, they don't have to fake that. It's part of the way they practice. It's part of the way they think about football. You go around most of the top coaches.

Sean McDermott, Dan Campbell, they're just tough guys. They don't ever have to fake. like I don't think you can just manipulate, snap your fingers and go. Because somehow I bought, I'm on the plane. I realize the bear game about the kickoff. I get Wi-Fi on my phone and then I realize I actually wanted on my iPad. So somehow I ended up spending $50 on internet.

I do that all the time. But I'm watching the game. And the broadcaster says that, you know, one thing McDaniel's doing has been making them run gassers after practice, really trying to, that's like something the brand new college coach does. Like some of these guys were on your. team last year, they see you, Mike. Like, you're not a tough guy. That's okay.

But you got to do what you do at an elite level. Two years ago, the one thing they mentioned today on the broadcast that I didn't realize how bad their offense was last year, and part of that was too got injured. Two years ago, they were really good. I mean, they have had some really good offenses under him. But like accountability and toughness, those come from your head coach and the players you select. But you can't just like snap your finger and do that.

Kyle Shanahan and Andy Reid and McVeigh, their teams are tough. I mean, Andy is an old school offensive. Why I'm and the other two guys are younger, whatever, but because they practice tough. And they've done that since both those two guys showed up in 2017. Right. Kevin O'Connell, I'll give him credit. I don't know if I view him as a tough guy, right? Kind of more of a bougie quarterback. But what does he do?

Hires Brian Flores. Like, we're going to be fucking tough. So it's like the toughness goes on Flores. Who is a tough guy? There's no faking it. He doesn't, the accountability comes from the tone and a set on defense. Jim Harbaugh and John, they are tough guys. They also always hire tough defensive coordinators.

So you just can't. Mike, I just think that, like, Mike, you're not a tough guy. And it's been too long now in your program. If it had been like year one, you got some players out of there, it's like, okay, what's year? He's on year four. I don't think that's possible. Now, I give him credit, like, okay, we're going to start and play our starters.

On the flip side, I don't know if you saw some of the quotes of Ben Johnson, like, we're going to get our work pregame and we're going to get our work tomorrow. I think nationally televised game, this wasn't like seven other preseason games going on. There was only one. He wanted no part. It could have gone well, but also if it goes bad, then that trumps Caleb or Chador is the number one story in the NFL tomorrow. You're leading your show with it. We can't even talk about Caleb because no one's on play.

Meanwhile, Tua, who, let's face it, if Caleb is as good as Tua in terms of efficiency and solid, the Bears would be pretty damn happy this season, right? And Tua's out there playing, and he's making a ton of money, and Caleb's on the sideline, which I mean, Caleb doesn't control that. But that was, I think Ben Johnson, which I give him credit, he's been coaching him hard. He's been running an accountability, toughness program from the jump. But I think he realized, like, look at the schedule. Everyone's watching our game.

if word had gone out, Caleb's about to start. Even more people are tuning into that thing, and he didn't even want to risk it. Which I understand, but I also think it shows you that it's still a great unknown what we're getting week one. I think they practiced. Didn't they have an inner squad practice the bears and the dolphins? I thought I read they did. And it was really physical. And there were a couple of moments where the bears, the dolphins felt the bears had delivered, you know, some late hits or a little over physicality. And so there's another reason Ben John's like, you know, Andy Reed.

Yeah, because I think Tua got chubbed to the ground or something, right? Yeah. And so, you know, you've told me this is Andy Reid will not do those inter-squad practices. He doesn't want anybody seeing any of his stuff. And Shanahan never done one. Never done one. Andy's like, you're not going to get a look at anything we're doing or our players or our draft picks.

You don't get a look at any of it. And then Shanahan will only do one practice. And I think have you talked about that theory before? why? Well, Kyle, I guess, said this the other day, and I was like, actually it kind of makes a lot of sense. He thinks the second day of these joint practices, which a lot of these teams now are just doing the one.

Yes. And then some of them don't even play their starters in that game. Because whoever loses day one. Of inner squad. Well, you're usually practicing, you know, sometime before lunch. You have a meeting and stuff in the afternoon where you break up and your position coach are lighten you up. So what are you going to do the next day after getting lit up in the position meeting?

the group meeting, and then maybe even the morning meeting, you're going to come out with your hair on fire, and that can lead to fights. And listen, you get fights in the one-off practice, but he said the day two practices can get a little out of control. And I was like, that actually makes some sense. Whoever kind of, quote-unquote, loses. And who knows? It could be like one group won this one, the other group lost this one on different teams. He's got melee going on. Yeah, and I think Ben Johnson also looked at that. And, you know, we had a pretty good practice. I'm not putting Caleb out. I mean, I think there are a lot of factors. But in the end, a team can't, you have to, you and I have talked about this in our job.

You have to give the fans meat in the sandwich. You can't just do fluff. Miami's been fluff. Hey, we're fast. Hey, we got multiple sets. There's no meat in the sandwich. Wilkins has gone on the D-line, who I thought was really good. Offensive line gets pushed around last several years.

But hey, we're fast. So I do think it's interesting that he is acknowledging Joe Shad's article, stronger culture, more accountability. At some point, the Tyree Kill thing, the really smart organizations and businesses in my life can see trouble before it happens. And the chiefs moved off Tyreek Hill just about the time he was the most talked about player in the league. And they got comfortable saying, you know what? this could, I mean, because Tyreek, his personality, he's been in trouble multiple times. And not that Kansas City doesn't have Rishi Rice's issue. I mean, they've got their own issues. But I think I look at that trade and I remember the reaction when the dolphins got Tyreek Hill.

And I remember being on the air on FS 1 and I said, all those draft picks to Brett Veach, they're going to be just fine. And they have been. And they drafted two of the two of the better players on their team in Trent McDuffie and Carly. loft is, right? I mean, those two guys have changed the team. I also think we were, when we got home yesterday from the Liv thing, and we had the Dolph, or the Vikings game on, for the entire third quarter, the highest paid wide receiver, Justin Jefferson, was miced up with their crew and just having a good time. You're like, God, this guy feels like he's pretty easy to be around. Yes. And one theme coming out of Dolphins camp is that relationship of the

stuff Tyreeks said after the season and, too, I like, no, we're not just all good. You don't just, and then I just saw a headline right before we jumped on that, you know, teams are sniffing around about trading for them. Like what teams? Like a really good team? Now, maybe you never know. I would never like McVeigh might just go, yeah, we'll do it. But I bet there are some good, well-run teams.

They're like, yeah, we're not even messing with that. Not even worth it. Unless you eat so much money where if it doesn't work, we can just cut him immediately, something like that. But he went from being a really good asset a couple years ago. Even when Miami got him, he was putting up huge numbers to now, I bet there are a lot. lot of Super Bowl contenders, they're like, yeah, we wouldn't even be in that business. Yeah, Travis Hunter will be the athlete of note in that state.

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and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called. Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letter help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day

and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and I'm. on the Renee Stubb's tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So you and I had a long discussion watching the Jets and the Packers last night over at Tito's. And we probably spent an hour just you and I before my crazy in-laws came over. And one of the things you talked me into is I've set all off-season. I don't know what the heck to do with the Packers. They won double-digit games last year, and Jordan Love was hurt early and didn't play great late. Okay. But I was thinking about this when I woke up and you went to the airport,

and I was thinking about this. I'm like, Detroit's coordinators, their replacements, really worry me. Chicago's offense and Caleb really worries me. J.J. McCarthy, I don't think there's any question. That Viking staff is just trying to build this confidence. up. The whole camp is about his confidence. I think I'm going to take the, even though the Packers got bolt race by the Jets, I think I'm going to end up, before we get to J.J. McCarthy, I think I'm going to take the Packers. They've had a quiet offseason. And I think that stuff matters.

I mean, you've got a Lions team that will not be as good because they lost two of the best coordinators. Whether Aaron Glenn and Ben Johnson hit his coaches, they were great coordinators. You know, Aaron Glenn had a top 10 defense. They had like four starters out. I mean, it's, Yeah, in an offensive division. And I just, I think you've talked me into it is, and McIntyre's been on this too, quiet, good coach, Jordan loves healthy, Green Bay is probably going to win that division. Well, you wrote the Lions off after the Hall of Fame game. I'm out.

I wouldn't go that far, though the theme of losing those two guys, I mean, the, All the All-fame game. I get it. I mean, they did look bad. But I do think losing those two guys, what Aaron Glenn brought to the table in terms of emotion, let alone the scheme, I mean, he was kind of the heartbeat of that team and then bend the brains. It's just how do you replace that, right? I mean, it's like any industry, any business losing two employees at that high level. Even if you hit on one of the two, there's going to be a, you know, probably a dramatic drop off on one of them. And if it's the offense, that would be a big blow to Detroit because offensively, that's really where they separated.

You know, I do think Minnesota has a better roster removed the quarterback, so obviously, than the Packers. And you could argue beside the Eagles and the NFC, no one's even on their level. You could argue minus the quarterback, they're right there with the Eagles. I mean, they got a pretty special roster. But I just think there's something about the Packers. I mean, we're talking about it. I didn't even quite realize, you know, you live by the lake and then you kind of pull the map,

and you see the Green Bay is not really that far. And then I realize, I get why the Bears. are so jealous of the Packers, you got one of the great cities in the world, and you got this little town up the road, and they've been kicking the bear's ass for 30 years. And now they're on their third quarterback.

It's one thing, it's like, okay, Farm, I get it. We'll tip our hat to you. Then you get Rogers, like, we're really going to have to take this for 15 years. And now you get Jordan Love, who he had a couple throws yesterday. His talent is a mess. Oh, no, he...

You get Jacobs there. Their offensive line's always good. They're high on this young quarterback. Their defense is now good. They're just that program. They're never going to be sexy like, you know, like their Ohio State football or, you know, what Andy Reid was early with Mahomes. We don't talk about them like that post-Rogers, but last year they won 11 games and they won one in the division. One-one.

And their quarterback got hurt week one, which had to throw them off a little bit, even though they won the next couple weeks with Malik Willis, which to me shows their coach is pretty good. You know what? You know, their coach is pretty, unlike Kevin O'Connell, like, he's won some playoff games. So, one, the gambling values there. I mean, you're getting them in like two and a half to one to win the division. Google how many times they've won the division the last three years, a lot. I mean, they just do it a lot. I do think there's some internal pressure now that they got that Murphy guy,

their president who kind of works as the owner is now Carmen policy's son Ed's in charge. So, I mean, this is a very, like, there's some of the line for Gutikins and LaFleur in a weird way because they have a new boss. I just think they're flying under the radar. I mean, all we do is talk about the Bears and the Vikings because they're new quarterbacks. No one talks about the Packers. You know, and there's a lot of different ways to win. In Philadelphia, we don't think they have the best head coach, but they have the best roster. In Los Angeles, we don't think they have the best roster, but we love the quarterback and the coach.

You know, Green Bay, it's continuity. The division's got all sorts of turmoil, losing coordinators. Chicago can't get the quarterback right. Is J.J. McCarthy right? It's just continuity is, it's, I don't even know the comp, IBM, like Microsoft. Microsoft's been great. It missed on the phone. There have been moments, but you look up and you're like, yeah, AI, Microsoft's good.

Green Bay has been really ahead of the curve on quarterbacks. They draft them early. They never draft offensive linemen in the first round. I couldn't tell you their best offensive line. And you and I talked about this. There was a book written years ago called, maybe 30 years ago called The Millionaire Next Door. And it was about how many people live next door to you. They pay off their home.

They have a 401k. They live under their means. And they're millionaires. And they don't have huge salaries. And that really is the Packers. They're missing a bar stool leg, right? They don't have that free agent leg. Whereas a Philadelphia, a Miami, certain places, people want to go play in L.A.

Devante Adams didn't have to arm wrestling to get him to Sean McVey and Stafford and the Rams, right? Like, Green Bay doesn't have that. So they have to draft and develop. Like the school teachers have to be smart with their money to become millionaires. In Green Bay, when you're forced, I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence that both New York teams were a bit of a mess. Why? Because they have great game day revenue. They've got great local radio TV advertising revenue, and they take big swings, and they don't do their homework.

Green Bay does their homework. And I just, I look at this organization and their continuity, their intelligence, their development, they almost develop like a really good college program. They really develop. And I even, in my comp, you know, a lot of times in college football, the underling goes and is a coach somewhere else, right? Like, Sark's not at Alabama, right? Lane Kiffin's not at Alabama.

Typically, these guys go off. I mean, honestly, when they tried to replace Pete Carroll, it didn't go well. But in basketball, think about when Roy Williams, replace Dean Smith finally because he just knew what worked in that program. Or John Shire now with Coach K. Like there is a blueprint in that program that they know works. Gutikins was taught from Ted Thompson, who was taught from Ron Wolf. Like there is a consistent theme in that organization that has never changed,

which is pretty rare when you have turnover. Like the Eagles, Howie's been there for decades, right? So it's him. But when you look at like the Ravens, they went from Ozzy to DeCosta. So they have thought on a very similar path. You'd even go from Kevin Colbert to Omar Khan now with the Steelers. He was taught under that. It's pretty rare because a lot of times you fire someone,

you bring in the best team's executive, right? That is not what is happening with the backers for decades. So there is connections. Like Gutikins can tell stories that Ron Wolf told Ted Thompson about what they did in 1994 with Reggie White and Brett Farver, trading for this guy or cutting this guy. And that is pretty rare. Like John Lynch can't tell stories of stuff that happened with Bill Walsh.

Like the personnel moves in 1989 or less need with Mike Martz and Dick Vermeel back in 1999. It's just, that's pretty rare. And I think that's the only reason that this little town, a couple hours above you sitting right now, dominates these big cities. Because you and I are sitting there going, God, Minnesota's a well-run franchise. It's just, I know they've never. won the Super Bowl in the modern era. They've just, they've gotten close.

They've had awesome. They've been good most of my life. They're the Kansas City. If Mahomes goes to the Chiefs, if Mahomes goes to the Vikings, not the Chiefs, because Kansas City has always had good quarterbacks, they won Hank Stram, Len Dawson. But Kansas City always had good

coaches, good quarterbacks, they drafted well. A lot of great players. I mean, Ray Lewis always told me he hated playing the Chiefs with Willie Rove. Tony Gonzalez, Ray's like, I hated playing the Chiefs. Their old line was unbelievable. if Mahomes goes to the Vikings, not the Chiefs, you'd be like, yeah, well, they were always well run. They just have never landed.

They thought it was Dante Culpepper. They thought it was Kirk Cousins. You know, Sam, Fran Tarkinan was good back in the 70s running around one of the first like 5-11, 6-foot quarterbacks out of Georgia. But they just have never like consistently had, you know, they got far for a couple years and they were a player two away from the Super Bowl. So I just, I tend to just, I tend to look at Minerese. Minnesota respectfully.

Like the twins can't compete in major league baseball. The T-wolves weren't always well-run. The Vikings have been well-run since Bud Grant. Always. Yeah. I mean, that's a knock right on the Bears. Owners' ownership's cheap. That's a fact.

The Packers, I mean, they haven't had one, but they've had a unique infrastructure. And the Lions up until Dan and Brad Holmes got there were the running joke of the NFL. And the Vikings just even look back like Kirk Cousins. Kirk Couss never gone to Hall of Fame. He's going to the Hall of Fame of Bank accounts for doing what he pulled off. But they signed her cousins, and they were just good.

And they beat Drew Brees in a playoff game. A couple years ago, they hosted a playoff game, which they lost the Giants, but they had a really good record. Like, they're just well run. And I think,

you know, we were watching some of the highlights. You know, it's hard in these preseason games. Like, Shedore played a lot, right? He gets 23 attempts. Most of these guys get seven.

Get a series. And then they're out. So he's like, oh, they went three of seven. It's hard. J.J. definitely has some physical attributes. And,

you know, I've been, I guess, on the negative side. And I started thinking, listen, maybe he doesn't even have to be that great. Their team's so good.

If he is just the 20th best quarterback, has some games where he's the 10th, has a couple clunkers, but they could win a couple of games where he has clunkers. Listen, his comp to me is Brock Purdy, is that he inherits Kyle Shanahan, he gets Christian McCaffrey,

Trent Williams, George Kiddlin, all these receivers. If he, and so do you think Brock Prudy does that, if he goes to tone-deaf offensive, in Pittsburgh. No, he doesn't do that. But he, as he's learning the game behind Garapolo, Garoppolo gets hurt, you're like, oh, Brock's got, you know, three years, four years of college starts. He was ready to play. Jay J.J.'s issue is Brock Purdy played at Iowa State. He trailed. He

got hit a lot. He didn't play with great players. Jay J.J. McCarthy, it's like a trust fund kid. Like, he never got punished. He never got pushed. He never trailed. Life was never hard. So, but I believe, like Brock, when he inherits the job after Garoppolo's injury, just don't run the Mercedes into the tree in the driveway. The truth is Minnesota's roster is like Denver. It's way better than people. We pay attention to Philadelphia or Baltimore. I'm telling you right now, Minnesota, left tackle, like running backs, receiving crew, edge rushers, like Minnesota stacked. You could make the argument that the best two rosters in the NFL all. are the Eagles and the Minnesota Vikings.

And then the AFC ones, the top got, you know, like the Ravens or the Chiefs. I think most people would consider the Ravens top to bottom, typically year and year out the best roster. Yeah. That's why they're kind of disappointing sometimes when they let down. Even last year when the bills beat them, you're like, I don't think the bills are as good as the Ravens. They're not. They just win that game. They're not.

But that's the thing with Minnesota. They have had, I'd even go back to a decade ago with Mike Zimmer. I mean, they had excellent players with Spielman was the GM. They always have impact pro bowl guys. And it just comes down. Cousins wasn't quite good enough, right? Now, the difference is they got Cousins a little older. He already had some scar tissue.

He had some true limitations. It had to be in the pocket. He couldn't ad lip. One of the, I mean, his best throw of the day, when did he play? Yesterday morning or yesterday afternoon? Was that rolling to his left? He has physical attributes that I think part of the reason they got off cousins.

I mean, obviously you had the Achilles. But even when he was healthy, they were true limitations. Like with golf, they can't move. and a coach wants, pretty bails Kyle out sometimes just because he's got some athleticism, right? And that's going to be an element that can help him out,

especially early on. You can get him layups moving around. They got the best wide receiver in the league. I think Addison got suspended for three games. But he was throwing him a couple times yesterday. I mean, he is. I mean, when he's on him,

that's pretty damn good, those two guys. So, and they got it, they have added offensive linemen. They can really run the ball. To me, that's what Kyle, Kevin O'Connell needs to kind of lean on early. That's the easiest way to take a little pressure off the kid early. Run the ball a little bit.

It just help him out. But he does like the pass. He got confident San Darnold early. He's like, let it rip because I've said it forever. His comp is not Kyle Shanahan, is Sean McVeigh and Andy Reed. He wants to bomb it 50 times a game. You know, Kyle would rather win. Kyle would have no problem going 13 and 5

and leading the league in rushing and his quarterback averaging 19 attempts a game. that is not how McVeigh, definitely Andy Reid, and I would put Kevin O'Connell in that bucket, which I don't blame him. We all got our different philosophies, but you've got to be careful with the young quarterback, you know, calling passes nonstop early in games on first down. Because if it goes wrong, it can, he got a little bit of a pass,

I thought last year. I'm not saying Sam Darnold was perfect, and obviously he played bad, especially in the Detroit game. But in the playoff game, he could have settled down the game a little bit and ran the ball, and he just refused to call runs. And I think that, but that's back to McDaniel. You can't hide who you are as a coach, no different than, you know, you approach a radio show,

a podcast certain ways. Like, everyone has their own styles and you kind of stay true to that, especially the older and more success you have. So that, that to me, I'm going to be fascinated watching that early on, like, how he treats this. Like, is he cool starting the season four and one, but only having him average, let's say, 20 pass attempts a game and really like, we're going to try to lead the league in rushing in September?

because that's how he should be talking, just even if he's bullish on the player in practice, just to ease his start into the year. I mean, last year with Caleb, it was like throwing non-stop. Like, this is not going to work, guys. This is unfair to the guy. So I thought it was interesting.

Apparently, Jim Harbaugh loved Brian Thomas, the receiver that went to Jacksonville, who was great as a rookie. But he drafted Joe Alt. And they had a great left tackle in Roshan Slater. But an alt was, the best tackle in the draft. So Harbaugh drafts Joe Alt.

He was inconsistent, but I was told inside the building that they thought Alt was going to be a Pro Bowl level right tackle this year. Now Slater now gets hurt, season-ending injury, heartbreaking for the kid. Great player. My guess is they move Alt over to left, and then they, you know, they've got multiple guys that can play right. But I thought it, and they, I thought once again, this is where Harbaugh is really smart. Everybody wanted them to take a receiver.

Remember, they'd lost Keenan Allen. They'd lost Mike Williams. Everybody in the world thought it was a wide receiver. The Bears took Romadense, right? The Bears could have used an offensive lineman. Let's be honest. The Bears didn't need Roma Dunzee. They could use Joe Alt last year in the offensive line.

Harbaugh gets Joe Alt, and a year later, it's prescient. I mean, you look at it and you're like, oh, shit. If they didn't draft Joe Alt, where would they be today? Ladd-McConkey's excellent. Keenan Allen comes back. He'll be your classic, you know, full. 48 catches, 60 catches, third down guy. But it goes back to Harbaugh's the opposite of Mike McDaniel.

Everywhere he goes, I remember Stanford. I can remember his second year at Stanford. People are like, they're not any good, but they're the most physical team in the Pac-10. They went into USC in the Coliseum as a 40-point dog in one. And they were beating on USC. Like, they were physical. And I think it goes, when we bang on a Mike McDaniel, it's like, Harbaugh is always true to who he is.

So even though the Roshan Slater injury is brutal, the Joe Alt draft pick, to some degree, saves them, in my opinion. Yeah, I mean, it's why they always say you can't draft for need. You got to draft the best player available. And a left tackle is always should be more valuable than a wide receiver. I mean, always. If he's good, always. Yeah. And they nailed that.

I do think they'll big picture. Like everyone's saying that he's like, he's going to take Malik neighbor. I was like, guys, have you not followed this guy's career? But a huge reason I was bullish on them last year, even if I don't think they're going to be as good as some teams, like I don't put them on the top tier in the AFC, I would bet on them being good again. There's a pretty big blow because their team is roster-wise is not as sexy as the other guys they're chasing. And a huge point of, you know, kind of where they separate is they have, you know, the best tackle duo in the league. and now they had Beckton, like they were going to be so physical. And we know Jim, Jim will have no problem rushing it literally every play.

And he could win, go 17 and 0 and win every game 9 to 7, he'd be the happiest guy in America. But I think any time that you lose a guy in the domino effect, because like, okay, you move him to left tackle, that means your right tackle gets worse. Do you try to move Bechton to right tackle? That means your guard gets worse. Like it's a domino effect, even though it's the best situation given that they draft

to Joe Walt that if you're going to lose a star left tackle, you have a replacement, but it has a huge blow. And even they, they sign Najee Harris, like, they're going to pound two running backs, and he messed up his eye, clearly can't do anything. You know, I mean, he's, I, it's not good. I mean, I'm not very, uh, I wouldn't be bullish on him starting the season early. I mean, he clearly's not even close to practicing. So I think the chargers are just in a weird spot. Now, they got Jim Harbaugh, their floor is so high. They could have a season from hell. and win eight games. But I think that was not just a devastating injury.

My dad, again, he was a 50-year-old guy, Torres Battelle attendant when he was like 50 years old, and it was never the same. Yeah, that is not an ACL, that is not a broken arm or broken leg. That is the devastating knee injury. So that's scary big picture, too, especially because, you know, cap-wise, they just invested. I mean, I think in a, I'm not trying to be doomsday here, but you almost have to say this might never be the same with this individual player. So now luckily, Jim Harbaugh is not, you know, might as well be an offensive line guy.

So he'll be able to figure something out. But you usually don't replace, you know, even if you can replace left tackle, then the right tackle, the drop off at that position, you could argue from a high-end tackle to the backup is almost like a quarterback. It's a precipitous drop off the backup is typically in a different stratosphere than that guy. It goes back to George Young, the late great general manager. of the New York Giants. And Paul Brown and George Young,

there are certain people that just, you know, Ted Thompson and Green Bay like had a theory on drafting. And he used to call it the planet theory, George Young did, which was there are only so many six-six, three hundred, 25-pound men annually born in America eventually

to become that, that have good feet and are really, really have long arms. Like, Ivo was said after quarterback, left tackle is, I mean, I would take a, great left tackle over Michael Parsons. I mean, I wouldn't, I mean, outside of a Lawrence

Tales, Miles Garrett, without hesitation, because the man upstairs, I'm not overly religious, but the man upstairs makes a lot of six, four, 270-pound guys who could run fast and rush the pass. There's a surplus. Almost every team's got somebody who's really good at the edge. There's six good left tackles in the game. And if the 30 best of all time, I think 27 were drafted in the first round, like they don't show up in a six. You can get Brock Purdy in the seven, and Kurt Warner and drafted. You know, Antonio Gates, and not a lot of great left tackles all time that went in even the fourth round.

So to lose Rishon Slater, who I think was the 11th, 12, 13th pick, it's a devastating blow. I also think, if I wanted to argue the other side, part of the reason that Jim Harbaugh is worth so much and his value is so high is because no one in their right mind could get in front of a team and give a speech like, we're going to be okay. but that's what you have to do in his role, especially it's when did he get hurt, August 6th? I mean, we got a long way to go here. We're a month out from week one.

And I think he's good enough because, let's face it, he's a little psychotic. He's this kind of crazy in a weird way, an optimist. He's a very optimistic human being that he could get up there and still breathe light in like Mike McDaniel. Do I think, like, I mean, it's shown. When Tua goes down, they just implode. Because whatever he's saying, no one believes them.

If you told me Herbert, a month, I bet Jim could go two and two, because he can just instill some confidence that no one has. And that's where the Chargers finally opening the checkbook for a high-end coach. It's valuable for this. So this is a year that a bad coach could just implode and you go 6 and 11. But would it shock anyone if the Chargers are just like the grittiest 9 and 8 team in the league because of Jim? That's, you know, when it's like it shouldn't be this way, their offensive line, Like maybe they have to rotate some tackles, whoever's filling in for all spot. And it's like they just kind of figure it out.

And they just kind of tough their way there. They win a couple games like 15 to 13. I mean, they're going to do that even when they're really good one day. But this is where Jim's value comes in in moments like this. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, news?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our time. people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down in my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis,

and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything, happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your courtside seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's finish it up talking about Jackson Dart. So I thought he was more of a second, third round pick. Good looking kid. I watched a lot of them at Ole Miss. Used to be at USC. He's got a nice arm.

And I was kind of like go either way on him. And then I watched him play Florida in Gainesville. And that was a big game for Ole Miss. and he just didn't play well at all. And I'm like, okay, that's a big spot. You've got to play better than that. And I mean, people have bad games, but that wasn't Elaine Kiffin lost. Like, it was just a bad game.

And so I'm like, you know, he's probably a late second. So the Giants who got into a rough spot, it's New York, and I think they reached a little bit. Because the people I had talked to liked Jackson Dart, but thought he was high second round. He went late for whatever, his quarterback. You and I are both okay, reaching a quarterback. So he played pretty well, 12 and 19. He met a couple of really nice throws. He moves pretty well.

I mean, he wasn't severely overdrafted, especially with the position. But here's the interesting thing. So next year is a very good quarterback draft class. This year, the giant schedule is the toughest in the league, especially the first eight weeks. My guess is this is why I didn't like drafting Jackson Dart. If you don't play him, can you draft? another quarterback with a top pick. You're better off playing Russ. He gets, you know, he takes the criticism. I would keep the coach, but the GM gets fired that the owner will probably move both

out. And you start over again with a new quarterback. So could I make this argument? Just play Jackson Dart after about week three. If you look at the schedule, there'll be an underdog, I think, in their first eight weeks. It could be an underdog each week. Play Russell, the first couple, appease him, and go with Jackson Dart. At least, then next year, you can say, listen, we gave the kid a run, we think he's a great battle. Or somebody likes him and goes, but my take is having Russell play the first eight weeks, you're going to draft another quarterback with a first pick of Jacks? I mean, Arizona had Josh Rosen played him.

He struggled. Everybody bought into, we're getting a new quarterback. My take it, you can't not play Jackson Dart and then draft a quarterback. Then it looks like a really bad pick. What do you do if you're the Giants' brain trust with Jackson Dart? Well, it's not apples to apples because one guy was a fifth round pick and the other guy went like 24. But to me, it's got a lot of Chodor Sanders.

No one's going to want to watch Russell Wilson after about 15 snaps. This team's not very good. And if I was a fan, I just wouldn't want to watch Russell Wilson. Now, the difference is, Stefanski really likes Flacco. I can see Brian Dayball being out on Russell. And we've seen some other coaches. Well, both Pete and Sean. fast, quick.

And clearly Arthur Smith, more than Tomlin, wanted to pivot back to Justin Fields. He wasn't feeling it. So I could see this thing pivoting quick. The other thing, and listen, I know the ownership doesn't want to get too involved, but we got to know. So I get this guy 14 starts.

He also, like Shador, these guys played a lot in college. So it's not, this is not one of those situations. Like, you know, Jim Harbaugh just played Trey Lanson, in the Hall of Fame game, like into the third, late in the third quarter, he's just trying to get the kid reps and hopefully like someone likes him. He's a third-string quarterback, but he's never played. How many starts Jackson Dart having the SEC, hell, he was starting at USC before he transferred,

remember? Because they had some injuries or I forget exactly the way it played out, but just what are we waiting for? And this is always a personnel thing, you know, with coaching staffs because, like, well, he doesn't quite know the offense yet. It's like, well, coach, we're losing 40 to 10 each week. So the quarterback that knows the offense sure as hell can't run it. So we might as well just go with the young guy,

throw them in, especially now. And these coaches have talked about it more. These guys are much more prepared coming into the NFL in the sense of they've thrown so much, right? So, yeah, they, you know, is it an easy transition to every offense coming from college? Of course not. But a lot of people have said, you know, Lane's offense has really mature over the years and some of the stuff. That's why they kind of liked them. So I think I would treat Jackson Dord if I'm one in three.

Boom, he's in there. The fan base, they are going to want no part of Russell Wilson. I mean, I think the Russell Wilson and Flacco, you could get booze week one if you're down 15 points at half time. Yeah. I think you start getting chance for Shador and Jackson Dart. I can see that coming from a mile away. I don't think there's ever been a player that has eroded as quickly as Russell Wilson. I mean, I was Team Russ.

And I knew, you know, I had talked to Greg Kosell on the air and off that I knew he wasn't great from the pocket. But he threw the best rainbow ball. He was elusive. He was like not as athletic as Kyler Murray, but there was a little bit of Kyler Murray where you're like, nobody can get a, nobody got a shot on him for years. And because of baseball, he was a great slider, unlike a Lamar Jackson or Michael Vic, who are better athletes, but get popped. Like nobody ever hit Russ. And then all of a sudden he goes to Denver. And it's like, wow.

this is he looked puffy he almost got stronger it's like he worked out too much he got slower thicker you know whatever it was kind of disconnected from reality like he was Pete Carroll and that defense sort of protected him and I mean maybe I just overvalued him but I don't remember ever in my lifetime a quarterback in two different environments being criticized by teammates and turning off a legendary head coach quickly. Like, I don't even know what to make a Russ's career. I don't even have a comp for it in the NFL. He was way better for longer than Deshaun Watson, but their styles were similar.

Once you stop making the plays, you're not good within the pocket, and your instincts in terms of avoiding sacks are not great. So they run into a lot of sacks. And remember, for a long time, when Russell was still making plays, the offensive line would just get destroyed. And internally, they'd be like, I don't think our offensive line is that bad. He's running into him.

But he was making enough a kind of scramble outside the tackle, throw a bomb at an opportune time, and everyone's like, superstar. But he was the only guy really playing like that, right? He wasn't doing his work inside the pocket because he couldn't. He's not really a timing and rhythm guy.

He's a playmaker. Same with Deshaun. The moment that left, or they would second guess themselves, so they were a step slower, they run into more sacks. It dissolves fast. and the offense looks, all of a sudden, you look like the worst offense in the league.

It's not even functionalable. And I think Russell, I don't know if his athleticism diminished in his mid-30s, if he started hesitating after a couple of bumps and bruises. But that playmaking just disappeared overnight. And then he got with a couple coaches. They're like, okay, we're not even going to try to do that, play within our offense, and he couldn't do that. And then there's the element of clearly a little different, like his just personality,

which works when you're winning. I think can just turn off people. Because the one thing the NFL has, I think in a locker room with coaching, it's a pretty authentic league. People are just pretty normal and people are just themselves. And I think sometimes when people think you're being fake, even if he's not.

Because in fairness to Russell, he's kind of been the same thing since like Wisconsin. Yes. You know? So I don't know if you can put on, you know, fake that personality for that long. I think that's just who he is. I just don't think a lot of people in the NFL are like that.

So we can't really relate to that. And it's one thing when you're winning, put up with anything, you start losing, it's like, what the hell is this? You know, this is kind of a beer drinking. We've got a lot of chew. We're just a bunch of dudes. And we got this dude saying this stuff that is like, no one talks. You're talking like a politician or something. You're just a quarterback, bro.

Can you just act normal? Even Tom. Put on the corporate face in front of the mic, then be a guy's guy with Gronk and Edelman and all the Kentucky Derby and chug beer. Yeah, he can just be a dude. And that's where Russell, that's why I think, some of these guys have turned on them. Because some of these guys he's played with in the last couple of years, they weren't around when he was throwing, you know, in 2017, all these comeback victories.

They don't even know that means nothing to them. It's 2024, 2025. I think you saw it last year with Deshawn. Now, he was playing worse. You know, in fairness to Russell, Deshawn's a much worse player the last couple of years than Russell Wilson. But once you start playing bad and I think we're losing because of you, these players. I mean, most guys are not Miles Gerell. on kind of scholarship for years.

Like, you get cut at any moment. You start losing jobs are on the line, so people turn on each other quick. Yeah, the, you know, I was sitting here looking at my notes. We haven't really talked about it. But so they're not playing Matt Stafford. Rams apparently dominated the Cowboys at that practice they had. And then they didn't play Matt Stafford and, you know, controlled the Cowboys when they played in the game.

And I have said this. The Cowboys, I think, have one of the weaker staffs. I think the Micah and the Trayvon Diggs noise. These guys don't, they want new deals. And, I mean, the Rams are playing Stetson Bennett. Like, they're not, you know, who, by the way, I'm not, I mean, like, disappeared, came back. I'll throw this out. If I said to you, the two bottom teams in the NFL, I think the Giants are going to be won,

mostly because of their quarterback situation and their center. I actually like some of their players. Their schedule is brutal. Their schedule is absolutely brutal. They're going to go 0 and 4 against probably Washington and Philadelphia. At best, they split with Dallas. But I think we would both say the Giants with the schedule and their quarterback situation, it's going to be pretty dire.

We know Cleveland and the Saints could be really bad. Dallas may not have playoff wins over the last 30 years, not many of them. Is it possible? They are a three-win team. Is it possible? I think it's very difficult if DAC plays a lot of games. If you tell me DAC plays 15, 16 games, even really shitty, they're probably winning 15 or 16, or, I mean, five or six games. One thing Jerry's proven is they have had guys kind of come out of nowhere overshunded.

They actually draft pretty well, so they get some guys. They nail their first round picks usually. Yeah, and they get some guys in the mid-rounds that are just saw some random guy on defense playing safety that you didn't. Who's just Doran Blan guy from Sack State, Fresno State transfer? They've been a pretty good drafting team. Hard to overcome, you know, a coaching staff. If you're right, they don't have one of the good staffs. I mean, this guy was not, this guy would not have been a coordinator in the league.

Now, some stuff, you know, it's perception. It's, you know, the buzz of your candidacy. Are you high or you low? That matters in the NFL. or college too, and he was obviously not thought of like he once was, but that's a fact. He would not have been a coordinator in the league. You know, Iber Fluse, people think he's a good defensive coordinator. Well, they just rehired him because they knew him, you know, because he was coaching on their

staff several years ago, kind of a classic jury thing. Micah Parsons, we have some, I mean, Bosa was it two years ago, sat out all camp and just wasn't quite the same that season. You know, even if you're working on your own beside practice in the weight room with the training staff, it's not the same as getting the practice rep. So even if they sign them September 1st and he plays, or I guess they'd probably need to do a little before that because they're playing Thursday night football. But the expectation for them would have to be tempered a little bit. And they're depending on a ton of young guys on the offensive line.

And that can be very hit or miss. Yeah, when it hits, it's awesome. We saw the Chiefs kind of doing that last year too. And I was like, whoa, well, you know, so it can flip on you quick. So three feels, I do think they have an infrastructure of guys that have won, like even when Micah comes back. he's won a lot of games, DAC, CD Lamb, like they got some solid players. But I do think it could just be,

they could be the last place team in the division. If the coach is over his head and they're, I mean, they're pretty top-heavy. I mean, C.D. Lamb pulls a hamstring. What the hell are you going to do? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, and I was a little over the top. Coaching's at least 30 to 40% of this league.

It's a big part because the margins is, you know, the average game is decided by four to six points. And, I mean, Mike McCartner, he's a good coach and struggled in close games. I mean, they always had too many penalties with Mike McCarthy. They weren't good situationally. Some of that is, you know, Dak, Cooper Rush, Dak got banged up. Dack now, and he's never been a great thrower, Dak now is a pocket quarterback. So my take is the George Pickin acquisition could end up being, you know, we all looked at it and went, oh boy, ooh, immature. It may have saved this team.

because you can't roll your coverage and run out and just CD land because George is such a hard physical matchup with his coaching with his catching radius. My take is

there's always an acquisition we look at. It was maybe Xavier McKinney for the Packers or somebody when they got him. Didn't they get him from the Giants?

You look at it and you're like, God damn, he's a good football player. I think the George Pickens thing really ends up kind of at least

making the Cowboys a good watch. I mean, I'll watch I want to watch Pickens with Zach. I really do. I want to watch him with Brian Schottnibber. Is he listening to him? He wasn't listening to Mike Tomlin.

He's going to listen to that guy. I think one, Gruden talked about this. Mike Lombardi talked about this. Those latter years of Al Davis, and it was always probably like this. But when it got really out of control, players knew that when the coordinator of the head coach got mad at him, they would just circumvent them and go right to the owner's office

because they knew he was in charge if he wanted to of the plays of who got cut, like he was very involved in football and he was making all the decisions. That is not the case with all these teams, right? If you play for the Chiefs, you know who the boss is, Andy Reed. You know, you play for the good teams,

you know the boss, the head coach, and the GM. You're not circumventing them to the owner, right? When that happens, remember when Chip Kelly got fired in Philly and like some of the players were talking to Jeffrey Lurie, it was like, that's never a good sign. You know what? You don't hear that in Philadelphia. They know Howie and Siriani.

Like, if you got an issue, you go to them. Right. And I think that these players, especially the last couple of years, because Jerry, in the social media world we live in, he's so out front, he talks so much. They do Mike McCarthy, who had won a Super Bowl and won a ton of games. Like, ultimately, buddy, you're not the boss, right? We'll go to Jerry if we have an issue. And then it'll just become a public thing and it becomes a shit show.

I think it's hard to overcome that. and I think they almost did because let's face it like Mike kind of knows what he's doing. He has some limitations and I, you know, he's got exposed a couple times in the playoffs, but he's a pretty good coach. One 12 games,

three years in a row with Jerry, which is not easy to do. Is Brian going to be able to handle that? Like what if, what if Mike Parsons doesn't like what Eve or Felo is telling him once he's finally signed? I mean, he's already been to meet with Jerry. He'd just go up to Jerry's office.

Hey, Jerry, we got, this is not. Can you talk to Iber Fluce about running this coverage? Because that was a classic thing. Now, Al was more involved, like truly. with the scheme. But if I was a player and I had, if I thought the coach was an idiot and I had an owner like Jerry, I'd go right up to his office or give him a call. Jerry Steven, this is not going to work for me. And that is immediate implosion. And that might be, if this team really goes down, that could be something that DAC and his leadership couldn't even overcome. That's where

it could really be a problem. And I do think the gap between a Mike McCarthy and Brian Schottenheimer could be like at the forefront be like, there's a gap between those two guys. And remember last year, Mike, Dak got injured with the hamstring injury and it was like, oh, they're fucked. And then as the season went on, you're like, you know, it's pretty respectable what they did. It's just like they're a well-run operation.

There's a big gap. And we talked about this with Jim Harbaugh. They could be a disaster, but they'll still win eight or nine games, not two or three, right? Like they did with that year with Brandon Staley when they imploded. Well, the difference between eight and three or four, can be a couple of players just quitting on you in October, and then all of a sudden you kind of like start questioning yourself,

and it can implode. So maybe worst-case scenario, you get weird stuff happening in an injury, players quit on you and don't believe in you. It could be a problem. And that would be Jerry's fault. Jerry's created this, you know, culture gets thrown around a lot. But the culture in Dallas is just Jerry. Yep, right?

You just kind of do what Jerry wants. Jerry's in control. Mike McCarthy plays out his last season. That was bizarre the way he does these players. I mean, they're just kind of run right now, really unlike all the respectable teams. And, you know, for three years with Mike McCarthy, I know they bombed out in the play. They were respectable 12 games every year, really good players. But all the other teams, the Packers, the Niners, all the teams they're losing to.

They don't operate anything like that with their owner. But it's not going to stop as long as, you know, it feels like it's getting worse, doesn't it? Yeah. No, I think going back to your initial comment, I think they're starting to feel like Al Davis the last six or seven years. It's interesting what power does to men. I think women tend to age a little bit more gracefully, but wealthy guys, you know, could be Sumner Redstone.

Is it Summer Redstone or Sumner Redstone? I forget. A lot of these old guys, they get a little crazy and they lack self-awareness. and most of them are not like Warren Buffett. It's like, hey, I could still do this for three or four more years, but, you know, it's time. And I think you see this. I mean, the NFL of all these sports ownership groups, it is a good old boys club. And they wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't even consider bringing in probably a Mark Cuban like the NBA did.

They wouldn't even consider it. and it's just it's just a place where Jerry and Bob Kraft and Stan Cronkey, there's a handful of owners who are highly influential. And Jerry knows it. And but the problem being is, you know, once you get close to the first number in your age being eight, it's different. I mean, Vin Scully was broadcasting, you know, in his 70s. You can, Al Michaels is 77. There's a big gap. you start getting, you start getting 79, 80, 81, your faculties aren't the same. And it's like, and Jerry's lived hard. Jerry's lived a big life. And Al.

Jerry parties. Jerry parties today. And Al lived a big life. And so it's not a shot. It's just I think about this stuff all the time is that I love to age gracefully and I probably won't. So I just, I think it's one of those things where it's become the Lakers a little bit. It's new ownership, and it'll never happen, would not be terrible like the bus family got, you know,

Kobe's agent, Rob Polinka is the GM and there's all sorts of friends and family. Cowboys just, they're not the bears. They're not totally dysfunctional in ownership with like 11 kids, but they're not, they're closer to the bears than they are to the Rams right now. I agree. They just have more money. Yeah. Right. You know, I think you bring up Robert Kraft.

obviously it ended really poorly with Bill but for those 20 years Robert became a star but Bill got to be the face the face of the team at the forefront of making the decisions and he bared the responsibility good or bad and he went out right Robert joined him when it was good

but if it was bad Bill took the arrows Al Davis even in his prime and Jerry in his prime could not have gone 20 years with Bill Belichick getting all the credit of the good times I mean, they proved that. I mean, Al would get rid of coaches in his prime when they were winning Super Bowls. And obviously, Jerry, I mean, had that early on.

It was like, Jimmy, you're out, you know? And again, that was when Jerry was sharp as attack. I mean, probably one of the more impressive business guys. And this is the mid-90s. So your personality does it only amplify and get more aggressive, the more money you have. Like you said, now he's in his 80s. I just think it could get really, really weird. because if the team's not good,

he's still calling into that radio show every Tuesday morning. He's still in the locker room, which doesn't happen anywhere else. I mean, it has, DAC and these guys are so numb to it because it's all they've ever seen. If you just put, like, took some dude from like the Rams, you know, like just take like Puka Nakua or just any other team and just put them on the Cowboys for like a week after the game in a locker room. And the owner is over there.

Like usually the press goes to the quarterback. They go to the guy that made the big play. When Jerry walks in that room and he's ready to hold court, they all go because his quote's going to make the headlines. And unlike those guys that might not say anything, you know Jerry will. Yeah. Let's wrap it up with this. You and I had an interesting conversation driving home from the live tournament. Is that, like, I am always pro entrepreneur.

Like when Dana White took a UFC fight during COVID to an island, I've always been pro-Dana White. I've always been pro-Dana White. There was a lot of critics of USC for a long time until Danny got momentum. And there's still critics because his relationship with Trump, whatever. Dana is an entrepreneur. And he has pushed back on the media.

He doesn't give a shit. I will always defend commissioners and entrepreneurs who take swings. And that's what I said. I mean, the PGA, what am I loyal to? It was a charity. They didn't run Augusta. They didn't run the British Open.

They didn't run the U.S. Open. So I was always loyal to the golfer. But you brought up a really interesting point. this weekend. And I briefly, briefly just said hi to Brooks Kepka and watched him T off in the first and watched his... He said, Heidi, he walked over to you, Kyle. No, he's... Brooks is a sports fan. He knows what's going on. And I'm a huge fan. In fact, I'm bummed out that he hasn't played that well. And I won't share with you what he said, because I said, man, you're, you look in really good shape. And he made a funny joke and I'm not

going to repeat it. But he's an interesting one. Because Brooks Kepka, you and I talked about this car. He, he likes being on the PGA. But if somebody offers you what his 125 million, it's generational. Like golf's hard. Golf's a grind. Golf was a grind for Tiger when he was the best player in the world. I mean, he melted down personally. It's a grind. You don't have a, you don't have a GM or a coach. You can't have an off week. I mean, it's like being a lawyer. You don't get paid if you're not on the, if you're not on the course, Tiger did, but through, you know, Nike and others. But the point being is, you would mention to me is that, okay, now these guys got paid. And when those

contracts are up for a Phil or a Brooks Kepka, it's very doubtful they're going to get another massive payday. Brooks, I think Phil has so much animosity toward, and he's going to play, you know, he got the Masters because he's won the Masters, so you get a lifetime exception for that, right? So what, where is, do you think somebody, do you think any of these guys will go back? Because you only, in the live, you play three rounds, not four. So a lot of these guys, unless it's a major and they have an exemption, they can't play back on the tour, right? So what happens for some of these guys

if they don't get a second big bag of money? I love golf and I've been, I mean, our experience was really cool in meeting Scott O'Neill that had nothing to do with this. I mean, he was just hired to replace Greg Norman six months ago, but what Greg and Jay Monaghan felt like a personal fight. It's like they, you know, Greg Norman had a vendetta. He got the people somehow with the most money in the world to finance that vendetta and went on the attack and the PGA tour.

Like a lot of country clubs would, they fought back on any ideas and change. And it created this. And it made all these guys wealthy. PGA tour players. I mean, Scotty Schaeffler just finished second. I think he'll get one and a half million dollars. I mean, these guys were making back in the day when Tiger first hit it big, I don't think there were many tournaments that paid a million to win. Yeah.

So, I mean, the money flowing on the PJ tour and obviously on Live is massive. All these guys have net jet towels, right? Not Tiger Woods and Scottie Sheffler. Like the 75th guy isn't checking into United with me flying home to Arizona. But I do think talking to Scott O'Neill, you know, the Live now is run by a guy that has an NBA background. The PJ Tour is now run by a guy personally picked by Tiger that worked with Roger Goodell. You know what those guys care about? business. And the tour, do you know who's benefited the most of this separation? Not live or the

PGA tour in the sense of like their businesses because the PGA tour is still fighting like Wells Fargo and they've had sponsors back out. Yep. And it's the majors because that's when you get to see Bryson, Rory Brooks, DJ, Scotty all together. And these guys know that. And I was blown away. I had heard his name, but I'd never met him personally. You know, Scott O'Neill's really high level guy. Yeah. And clearly Brian Rolap, the P.J. Tour guy, if you're a right-hand man for Roger Goodell for 20-plus years. I mean, you probably know what you're doing. And he was giving us great stories yesterday of dealing with, I don't know, David Stern and Josh Harris, who just happens on the Sixers and the Redskins.

These are the people. And James Dolan. Like, he's dealt with volcanic personalities. I think it's a huge strength of his is. And Rolap was the same. They're not golfers. So they're not. Rollap said I play like three or four times a year.

So that means they're not like country club guys. They're not thinking about the game. They think about business. And it's pretty black and white to get, figure out a way to make this happen. And talking to them yesterday, I don't know when it's going to happen. But like, they understand that because it's, this is a sport. Golf's a little stronger in tennis. Usually tennis has what, two or three guys that are like stars.

Yeah. Right? They have the last 20 years like, you know, Federer, Nidal, Djokovic. Golf typically has a lineup of even if it's Tiger and Phil, there are, Seven, eight more guys who were pretty famous to. Ernie L. Yesterday, in order, Phil, Dustin, Sergio kept going. We didn't even see Bryson.

There was like six guys in a row. And I'm like, oh, there's Phil. There's Dustin. And then Hatton, the European guy, who's a stud. By the way, he doesn't even look like a golfer. In that heat, he had long-sleeve shirt on. I'm like, and he was drenched. So, like, they're, there, listen, again, certain players, you get exemptions.

right for a certain amount of time. But the bottom line is the PGA doesn't run the Masters. Like they need tournaments that aren't majors to be interesting. And right now a lot of them aren't. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think as someone that loves the sport, you've got to figure out a way to allow John Rom to play waste management. You have to let Bryson Deschambeau,

who's a California guy to play Pebble Beach if he wants to. When they go play the Arnold Palmer in Florida, Brooks and DJ, those guys live there. Hey, you guys want to play there. And find a way to do. All these guys are friends. Brooks lives next to Rory. They play all the time.

You know, I mean, Terrell Hatton's on the Ryder Cup team with Justin Rose, Roy McElroy, John Rom, all these guys, it's a small, small world. And they all live in three or four cities throughout America. Phoenix, Dallas, Jupiter, Florida. They all know each other. And at this point in time, I think sometimes, like any big fight, emotions were high two or three years ago. They've mellowed out.

I had never been that close to it. I'd never gone to a golf event like that with a media knowing people being a... It's got... When I first got into radio and I started going to baseball games and you could just walk up to batting practice and just like have a conversation with Bruce Bochie two hours before the game. I'm like, if you walked up to Andy Reid on a game day and tried to talk to him, he would have shoved you out of the camera. But it was a different culture.

In golf, it's like, these guys are hitting some balls. Brooke come over, have a joke. Sergio walks by, how are you doing? Brennan Steele, who was obviously a big fan of you, just came over and talked for a while. He plays golf with Joel Clatt in Southern California. The culture of golf is a little more melt. Once they get on the course, you can tell, like, all business, once they hit.

But on the driving range, you can have conversations. So it's just, it's different than some of these other sports. But financially, there is a lot. I mean, that's where it's unique. I mean, there's a lot of money in terms of the people that get involved. I mean, look at the typically the sponsors. It's like Rolex, Mercedes. I mean, most of these guys throughout the course of their career

are sponsored by huge brands. I mean, Phil forever was like KPMG. It's like, Phil, what does KPMG getting out of it? Well, they got out of it. They would bring him to corporate events and he would play with people they want to do business with. You know, they want Apple's accounting. So they have an event, hey, Phil,

will you play with Tim Cook in this round? Right, right. And that's what they paid Phil $25 million a year to do. So that's where golf is, It's almost intersects, I would say. We talk about NFL as this huge business, and it is. But the players on the field aren't like dealing with corporate, you know, golf is the intersection is strong. It's all kind of under one umbrella.

The business, the golf, the sponsors, they're all kind of interconnected. And that's where I think the strength is in the group. And Liv has four or five guys that golf really needs to be playing with the other guys. Yeah. John Middlakov, great stuff. I'll say it again. Mickelson's got a little, you know, he's got that five o'clock shadow. He looks slender.

I mean, he inspired me. I got to lose some of him. He's got to be in his best shape. He's ever been in his life at 55 years old. Yeah. All right. Good talk to you, buddy. Thanks for the hospitality, Colin.

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