The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - 'Talking Rodgers’ + Marcus Thompson on Wiggins Unknown, Warriors Playoff Pulse, Kerr Future

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

First, (3:00) Colin explains why constant Aaron Rodgers’ offseason talk is a no-brainer, and how Michael Jordan selling his stake in the Hornets pokes another hole in his carefully crafted mythology. Then, The Athletic NBA Writer Marcus Thompson joins Colin to discuss the many unknowns surrounding the extended absence of Andrew Wiggins and if he could miss the playoffs (16:00), if the Warriors are still a serious playoff contender (21:00), if the lingering effects of the Draymond/Poole punch has contributed to their abysmal road record (26:00), if Steve Kerr could walk as soon as this offseason (28:00), Klay Thompson's unexpected and sustained resurgence (30:00), and how far he’s willing to dig on the Wiggins story (36:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates, and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Gambling,org, Maryland. 18778-8-8, Hope, New York, or text Hope, New York, 467-369, New York, 1-800-2-4700, Wyoming, or visit www.wobbler.net, west Virginia. All right, welcome in Friday morning podcast. One of my favorite guys in all the media, Marcus Thompson, works for the athletic. Marcus is really good. He's written several books, one on KD, one on Steph Curry, does a great job, has really close relationships with guys on that team.

We're going to ask him about the Andrew Wiggins situation. Draymond Green's not going to play against Atlanta, so no Wiggins, no Draymond Green. This team is abysmal on the road. We'll talk about that, a lot of issues. So give me six or seven minutes on this. I've spent this week overwhelmingly on one topic, Aaron Rogers, to the Jets. And I know at times it feels tedious, but, you know, something I've said probably 25 times in my 30-year career about my shows, radio or TV, is that you, you, the consumer, you, you the listener, you drive the bus. So I'm able to, because I'm on cable television to see every minute of my ratings every day.

You can't do that on broadcast TV, but you can do it on cable. And I monitor it. And I monitor it for one reason. You tell me what you're bored with. You tell me what you're interested with. I think the height of arrogance as a broadcaster is pretending I know every day what's most interesting. So I follow you. And if I, and this has happened to me multiple times over my career that I've loved a topic,

just thought it was absolutely wonderful and fascinating. And the next day I see my numbers and you didn't give a shit. And so I move off the topic. There are things that interest me far more that interest you. And conversely, there are times I've touched on topics and I'm really sure. shocked by how much you care. So then it's my job to make calls, take better notes, figure out why you like it, and talk about it.

So in the Aaron Rogers situation of the Jets, it's the combination of multiple things. The most popular sport in the country, the NFL, the most crucial position quarterback, one gigantic iconic brand, the Green Bay Packers, and the most polarizing quarterback in the most popular sport, Aaron Rogers. So this week, I can watch my downloads. I can watch my cable ratings. I can, they've all been really, really good. So I'm going to spend that in a couple of minutes on this. I listened to most of the comments, the clips from Aaron Rogers on the YouTube, Pat McAfee deal.

And, you know, that's a friendly place for him to go every week. And I have no problem with that. I used to defend Arsenio Hall all the time when people would bang on Arsidio Hall. And they said, well, you know, people go on there. He asked Puff, fluffy questions. And my takeaway is it's called the Arsenio Hall show. He can do whatever he wants. It's his show. You know, some people have said, well, McAfee's just, it's a comfortable place for Aaron to go. And my takeaway is, it's Pat Show. He's a punter.

He's not a journalist. He can do anything he wants with it. I can do anything I want with my show. But I'm not a former professional athlete. I don't have a relationship with Aaron. So I'll defend any broadcaster. This is not the New York Times. I'm in the opinion space.

I've said before I liked Aaron Rogers more than Brett Favreve. I think he's smarter. I think he's more thoughtful. He's a unique guy. Probably wouldn't be my kind of guy to hang out with. But that's okay. You know, there's a lot of great athletes. You know, Tom Brady doesn't have a beer during the season.

I probably wouldn't hang out with him either. I'm drinking one right now. A herd draft picks, by the way. Pilsner. But I do think the most shocking revelation to me is that Aaron Rogers, after the retreat, said 90% going in he was going to retire. And then he came out and was surprised the Packers moved off him. it's just remarkable to me that a guy that's that smart would lack any self-awareness.

And I'll double down on this. When you're the center of your universe and you ghost people, Aaron has a history of ghosting people who say anything critical of him. You surround yourself with yes men. And nobody called him out on his shit. You know, my wife calls me out on mine. My kids do. I got friends that do.

I have bosses that would. And so the Packers have never had an owner, right? They don't have an owner who calls up. him out in his stuff. If Green Bay had an owner, Aaron Rogers would not take eight to nine weeks to make up his mind. If Jerry Jones or Stan Cronkey would call him up and say, pal, make a decision or we're moving on. So it looks like that's an advantage not having an owner, but I think it's a disadvantage. It's a disadvantage for Favre who kept threatening retirement. It's a disadvantage for Aaron who kept threatening retirement. And neither guy had anybody that would demand they

give him an answer. And then Aaron's not married. You know, he didn't have anybody to call him on his crap like our wives do, right? And so I really do think, I call it the Green Bay quarterback syndrome. No owner, smallest city. You basically own the franchise. And I think ownership at its best is non-meddling, is highly supportive, but we'll hold coaches, star players accountable. That's Robert Kraft. He said, no, we're not going to trade Tom Bray. Brady, we're moving off Jimmy Garoppolo. It was the right move. Brady still had Super Bowls with New England and Tampa left in the tank.

And Garopolo is a B quarterback. Some would say a C quarterback. Got to a Super Bowl, maybe C plus. So I think the lack of ownership has really hurt Green Bay. The other thing is they've been overly frugal. An owner can sometimes step in and say, go get that free agent. Make it work. They don't have that.

So in the end, sometimes in life, things you see as an advantage can be a real disadvantage. And it may feel like for Farv or Aaron Rogers, it's such an advantage not having that hovering, meddling, powerful billionaire. But I think in both cases, Farv and Rogers kind of took advantage of it, had leverage, manipulated, used it. And in the end, the franchise booted both. I do think Jordan Love can play. I don't think he's going to be great. If he was going to be great, if he was Mahomes or Burrough, they would have. have already moved off Aaron, not given him an extension.

It didn't take very long one training camp a month in September to figure out Mahomes was really good. Let's move off Alex Smith, who was a pro bowler and making the playoffs when they moved off him. I also don't think he's Zach Wilson or E.J. Manuel, where you know instantly it doesn't work. He's somewhere in between. My takeaway is if you look at who the Packers play next year and the quarterbacks they

play on average in the NFC, they won eight games this year with Aaron. I think they're about an eight to nine win team next year with Jordan Love. Barring some injury, I do think they're going to get this deal done. I think they're going to get either a first round pick or a really good player from the New York Jets, but I don't see them capsizing at all. I do, however, find it absolutely remarkable that Aaron Rogers was surprised when he came out of the darkness retreat. His words, not mine, and the Green Bay Packers had decided to move on. Wow.

You could be pissed. That's different. You could be upset. Okay. You can't be surprised. For the second, third year in a row, talking retirement, you can't be surprised. You're not allowed to be surprised as an adult with a functioning brain. You're not allowed to be surprised.

So Michael Jordan is reportedly selling his shares in the Charlotte Hornets. You know, it's really interesting about Michael Jordan. so he tried baseball. He failed. He tried ownership. He was awful. He tried the wizards. It bombed.

Everybody understand that take out Scotty Pippin and Phil Jackson, this whole Michael Jordan mythology is sort of just that. He's arguably the greatest basketball player of all time. But he's done a lot of stuff. Never the golfer, he claimed, failed at baseball, bad NBA personnel guy, not a very strong owner. Hornets have been mediocre and uninteresting forever. He was a great, great basketball player. And I always thought where LeBron is clearly superior to Michael Jordan is LeBron, his game is his personality.

He's a giver. He's a very giving guy. he likes on the floor to elevate players. I never thought Michael necessarily elevated all his teammates. He took shots away from Quentin Daly, Orlando Warridge, Scotty Pippin, Tony Cooch. Michael took shots away from others. LeBron, think about LeBron's career. Who hasn't played their best basketball with LeBron James?

He elevated everybody. I mean, J.R. Smith worked late in his career with LeBron James. It was Kyrie's best basketball. Shane Badegh, his most important shots. Everybody works with LeBron. From his schools to his style, to his game, to his businesses. He got multiple partners. Michael was always a bit of a selfish player.

He's a bit of a selfish guy. And he's not great at building community. He's great at building wealth for Michael Jordan. That's fine. It's not a criticism. It's a reality of who Michael is. I don't think he made everybody else better. He failed with multiple coaches.

He failed without Pippin. He failed in baseball. He failed in Washington. He failed as a GM and an owner in Charlotte. What he was was a great basketball player, very self-centric. He was remarkable. He deserves to be the first or second best basketball player of all time. The three best I've ever seen that weren't centers.

MJ, LeBron, and Magic Johnson. And they're a notch above, even the Tim Duncan's and Larry Birds. not counting centers. But it's not a surprise. Michael's always had a small group of friends, very loyal to that small group of friends. But he doesn't have the ability or the interest to be more of a LeBron, to help others beyond his circle. That's not really what Michael is. He only recently started some very noteworthy giving, some public giving to either a political,

process or a charity. I'm not saying he hadn't done it for years privately, and that's not a criticism of Michael. Again, it's just his reality. But if you look at Magic Johnson and LeBron James, their games are very similar because their personalities are very similar. They have a large community of friends and allies and they're givers at their core. And it's made Magic one of the richest athletes of all time. Braun, one of the richest athletes of all time, but it's also enriched others, where Michael's

often just been about Michael. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle progress. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get off the bench, bet the NBA with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook.

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1-800-522-4,700. Visit KSgambling, help.com, Kansas. 1-8777-70-stop, Louisiana. Call 1-800-3-27-50-50 or visit www. M.A underscore helpline.org slash problem gambling. Visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org, Maryland, 18778, Hope, New York, or text Hope, New York, 467369, New York, 1,800, 522, 4,700, Wyoming, or visit www.1,800 gambler.net, West Virginia. All right, let's bring on Marcus Thompson.

I've said this before in my career. My job is to tell you what I know, but I don't always need to know the why. Sometimes it's none of my business. The Andrew Wiggins situation is really none of my business. I know it's very serious. It's a family matter. What I was told, and now I have two people that have said, it's really, really serious. The Warriors totally support him.

But there is some doubt if he'll be available going forward. There's no certainty. There's real doubt. So let's bring in, Marcus. You know a lot more than I do. I have been told it's extremely serious and the Warriors completely respect his privacy. And so again, that's none of my business.

I'm not talking anybody's fan. That's none of my business. Let's talk about availability. You're reporting, you're sourcing, you're guessing. Is it a reasonable assumption that he would miss the regular season, but perhaps be a postseason participant? You know, it's possible. Depending on who you talk to, there's some people who expect him to be back.

There's some people who don't want to put that on him, right? Like, hey, deal with what you got to do. We don't really want to pressure you, right? You know, you got to handle this. The difficulty about that proposition of missing a regular season to come back from the playoffs is who you getting. I mean, that's two months, two months of no basketball. I doubt he's picked up the, ball, a ball, right?

I have to guess his conditioning wouldn't be great. So it would be a tall order to ask him. And then we don't know what his mental condition will be. We know this. This dude doesn't miss games. Like he just doesn't. I mean, his first six years, he missed like four total games. Like, he doesn't miss games.

So whatever it is, it's got to be, it's incredibly serious. Whatever it is, there's a locker room with dudes who want to win a championship who are like, ooh, this is bad. Like, you handle that. Like, we're not even mad. So I don't know how you come back from that in the middle of a playoff setting and produce. I mean, we've seen crazy things, but that would be a lot to ask.

So I think they just have to start preparing mentally for the fact that he won't be there. And if he comes, like, that's a bonus. Yeah, I mean, they wanted Jonathan Kaminga perhaps to develop. He's very twitchy, very athletic, can be very forceful around the rim. they wanted him to develop. He doesn't have the touch. He's not the defensive player yet of Wiggins, but he's wildly athletic.

But if you could get 12 minutes a night, he didn't do squat in the playoffs last year because Kerr didn't trust him yet. Do you think Steve Kerr trusts him? Because Iggy now has an injury. How many minutes per night in a playoff game do you believe Steve Kerr would be comfortable with Jonathan Cuminga?

I don't really think he has a choice. I mean, the other option is a two-way guy that they're probably going to convert Anthony Lamb. So, I mean, geez, Camico was the number seven pick. I do think he does a couple of things that the words could use. Like, he's a ball pressure. He's good at that. So at some point, they'll use him.

I think it's somewhere between 12, 20 minutes, depending on how he plays, right? He'll probably get 12 baked in, maybe 15. If they're not good, especially in that second half, then he just won't go back to him. Like, that's kind of how Steve has been. If he's playing really well, if he's given somebody your problems, now you up it. Because they need it. They don't have a lot of other defensive options, right?

Like, they don't have a lot of lockdown guys. I mean, here's the interesting part. Does Gary Payton's second make it back? And how does that impact? Because if you don't get Wiggins and you don't have GP2, the only other guy who can do what they do is Dante DiVenzo and Jonathan Kamiga, that's it. The rest is like, y'all beating you off the dribble. So it's almost like, yeah, what do you have to lose anyway? Just run about there.

If you don't win, you probably are the seventh seat anyway. So what did you expect? Well, Clay Thompson's having his best year in maybe six. He is absolutely great. Jordan Poole, Defingenzo, Steph Curry had 50 against the clippers. So it's a team that's guard heavy. And if things don't work out with the loss, with the movement of Wiseman and Wiggins, and Wiggins, they're a small team.

And they're not going to be as good defensively. So, you know, I've said this before. I've thrown this out there. Is that because Steph can still be on any night the best player in the league on any night against anybody. Clay has rebounded with an all-star level second half in performance. Draymond is still a catalyst. Wiggins, we presume, would come back.

I'll throw it out there. If they got into the playoffs and got pushed around by a big, forget M.B. I'm talking Yokic. They got pushed around a little bit by a big. They have the arsenal of guards now, especially scoring guards. They're not moving Steph, but Jordan Poole. You know, they've got enough guys they could move. This team, I still believe, believes we got a championship left.

Could you see them going out and getting, and I'll throw a big at you. You don't have to, he'll give you 22 points a night. without designing a single play for him, Anthony Davis, and just say, listen, we know you're not giving us 38 minutes, and we know you're not giving us 82 games. We're not asking that. And because I look at the Warriors and I think to myself, right now I've lost confidence without Wiggins and Iggy.

I don't think they can get to the NBA finals. I don't. Now, the break is, of course, Marcus, KD's out. And, you know, that's a big thing. And I don't trust the Clippers. Have you, let's start with this. Have you lost confidence in this team going forward getting to the finals? Yeah, no question.

They can't win on the road. They lose the teams they should beat. I always thought it was going to be tough anyway. Repeating is not easy. That's why a lot of teams do it. So even if they brought back the same team, it's not like when they had KD and it was like, all right, we're about to repeat.

like normally it gets harder the second year but now i think they're uh they'll upset somebody right that third series though would be tough because whatever they do it's going to be on step it's going to be on play right it's going to be on drayman and now it's like you you fight through one series right you upset somebody you get another series that's going to be harder now you can start to see it take toll because keep in mind they've been playing hard all year it's not it's not like 2018, 2019. Right. Where they were chilling knowing like,

all right, we're here for a finals run. Like, no, they've been trying to beat team. So the difficulty I see is they've been putting in a lot of work. And on the back end, that catches up. We've seen this before, 2016, they chased 73, you know, got up 3-1,

and the legs are gone, right? And that's obviously a better setting for them. But it's just tough to envision and winning three series to get to the finals and then win a fourth one. Like that's a lot. I just think they need to have a good showing

and if they knock off Yokic or knock off KD, that's something real. Now you're talking about, all right, stuff's still legit. Who will be keeping out of Draymond and Clay? Or maybe Draymond's like, you know, I'm out. I got an opt-out. Somebody wants to pay me a max. I'm out.

Those are the decisions. I don't think, the reason I don't think they're going to Anthony Davis, the owner wants to go young. That was the whole Wiseman thing. I don't want a bunch of 35-year-olds. So when they fall off, we're like a lottery team again. He doesn't want to do that.

He wants somebody young. He wants to swap out stuff and make it a seamless transition to the next guy. So I think he'll want a guy who's young and ready to play. He wanted Steve Kurtz who play the young guys this year. So I don't think he's going 30 plus. He's going, he might go 25. That might be the compromise. Instead of 21, it'll be 25.

But it won't be another 30-something unless he just decides, let's ride the wheels until they fall off with Stefan. So most have observed and speculated that the Draymond pool punch created a bit of a rift in a chasm between young and old guys in the locker room. And they note, and I think with some accuracy, that it's a bad road team. And on the road is where unity factors in. There's almost no explanation, Marcus, for being abysmal. Shit, they're as bad as the Rockets and the Orlando Magic and Detroit on the road. Do you believe it does feel like this is maybe a clickier team, the gap between young and old is sizable?

Oh, I thought that was true from the beginning. I mean, it's like literally like a red sea in between them, right? You got the old heads who won championships, and then you have like the homeroom squad, right? You got the Hall of Fame and you got the homeroom. They got six guys who like haven't done much before in the league. And then you have this super high bar of championship standard, right? It was already like that. I mean, just tangibly just thinking about who they are at their ages, right?

Like, I mean, Steph is the nicest guy in the league, right? he gets along with everybody but he's 35 he's got like kids and stuff like he's got IRA accounts and business like he's not he's not hanging out with 21 year olds like he'll do you know he can put his arm around the guy in a locker room and all that but got teenage daughters they just don't have anything in common and I you could look in a locker room and you could say hmm this is this is this team looks like they're having a bit of fun there's some like jelling that you probably didn't think happened after somebody got I rocked in training camp, right?

But what you can't really, there's this like, intangible part of the punch that you can't quantify, right? Like what happens if they don't have that and they get off to a start? And the chemistry is great. And now they don't lose five straight road games to start the season. Like, it's like, it's almost like not saving money. You know what I'm saying? You don't lose money, but you don't know, you don't know what you would have done

if you would have invested it. Right. Like so we don't know how that impacted the season. All we know is they got off to a rough start. It was kind of a mess and it felt like it set of tone for the season. So even if they're fine now, right? Even if they're like they've overcome it and gotten through it, there was a cost that they paid that we can kind of see now.

And I think it began on the road. First out the back, five game road trip. They lose in the Charlotte and Orlando, right? And they're playing like Stefan. It was not like they had a bunch of young guys. They weren't able to close against bad teams to start. That O and FIRE road trip set a tone. So I think there is an intangible, like, cost from that,

even if they might have gotten through it since. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the apps. athletes for a full year.

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Well, Steve Kerr played, GM broadcasted and coached. He's got a lot of money. He's got a lot of interests. It could be surfing. It could be travel and coaching in this league is a real grind. As this dynasty, I don't think it's winding down. I still think it has legs for the next two to three years because I think Steph is, you know, I think at some point they could go to Steph and say, listen, we're going to have you play 60 games. That's what you're going to play in the regular season. You pick your spot. I think that's the next step and that may be next year. Because shooters can last a lot longer than a like a Westbrook who's a hyper athletic guard and they lose the athleticism, not the same guy. Steph can play for the next five years and hit jumpers. The key is, 26 minutes, 58 games. They're not quite there yet.

But let me ask you about Steve Kerr. He defended Draymond and has before. In fact, it's very interesting to me. This year particularly, he has been so positive about Draymond publicly, gone out of his way publicly, so much so that I notice. Where do you think Kerr is at with the dynasty himself, Draymond, the age, bridge. Where is he at when you cover him nightly?

He seems to be in a place where he like kind of likes the challenge of coaching, right? Like it seems like he likes the struggle of training young guys and teaching them except he don't really play them. Like it's kind of weird. When he talks, it sounds like it sounds different than it looks, right? Like he'll say, oh, this young guy is really developed. I love Moses Moody. Moses Moody. Great.

and Moses Moody doesn't play. I think the decisions with the roster at the beginning of the year kind of created a chasm that they're going to have to figure out in the offseason. Here's the other thing is Bob Myers coming back. Bob Myers doesn't have a contract. That could be, I mean, we're looking at Draymond is like, what is Draymond going to do? Bob Myers might be the dominole that changes things.

And then like you said, Steve's got so many interests. If it gets too different, does Steve stick around? Steve can go do whatever he wants. That's one of the things I love about Steve. He's like, you know, I can leave tomorrow. I'll be great. My life is good, right? Like, it's fine.

I've known Steve forever. Steve's on a short list of the smartest people that have ever been in this league. He's got a million interests. It's like he just has that comfort in his felt where it's like where other people are making decisions to keep a job. Steve is like, yeah, I'm going to do what I think is best. And if you want to fire, refire me, but I got 11,000 rings. So I'm good. I'm just like there there was definitely a thing between the front office and the coaches staff

like no not playing wise when not playing camiga not playing moody right playing two-way guys over him like he seems to enjoy this position of we what we got to do what's best for us and I'm just going to coach how I want to coach it's got to be pretty freeing but you know the owner is like yo I'm investing in all these young players like we need to prepare four and five years. So when you talk to him, when you hear him, he sounds like a coach who's kind of,

yeah, this is how you build. We're building something. Like we're growing. But then when you see him like coach, he's like, yo, I'm trying to win. Like I'm running guys I think can win.

But it's interesting. He's so like at peace with himself. I think just about everything he does, there's a sense of comfort to it, right? Like even when you, if you're critical of Steve, and he brings it up to you. It's not in a, how could you say that?

He's like, yeah, let's talk about it. Sure, there's criticism, right? Like, I'm going to talk to you about it, and it's fine because I already know who I am, right? So it's good. It's a weird space to be in because the owner is like, why aren't you playing Wiseman? Why aren't you playing Kamiga? He's like, yeah, I'm trying to win. And I do what I want because I'm Steve Kerr.

Right. Well, I also think, if you look at the play, I've been saying this on the air recently. When they bring players in, there's a common thread why they work. And it's not offense. Iggy works. He's a willing defender. Katie worked a willing defender.

Wiggins worked a willing defender. DeAngelo Russell didn't. Like, you've got to play defense. Steve Kerr may have been a three-point shooter. We may view this as an offensive dynasty. But if you're not willing to put your body out there, this shit ain't going to work. When I watched Wiseman, I never thought he was a fit. I also think this is a very heady offense.

It's a catch and react offense. I think it's really hard for young players. And so I watch almost every Warrior game to some degree, or I'm all over the box score on the highlights. Shit, man, this is not remedial stuff. To some degree, could I not defend Steve Curran say, it's probably the most complicated offense in the league. It's definitely advanced algebra trig, right?

Maybe calculus in some sense. You have to have played basketball to understand. Like, it's a lot of little stuff. He's always talking about quick decisions, right? You got 0.5 seconds to make a decision. Decide what you're going to do. That's just not how young players are old, man. That's right.

That's not. And the unique part about all this is the players they selected was basically a pivot. It was like, all right, Steph is hurt, Clay's out. We have no idea what the dynasty is going to be or if it's what we're going to be in the future. They went 15 and 50.

Remember, they didn't even make the bubble. They draft Wiseman. Because that's like, all right, we have to figure out how we're going to play now without these generational talents. Steph comes back and he's like, oh yeah, y'all, I'm still a superman. And now it's like, wait a second.

Let's continue playing how we play. And his first year back, was a bunch of dudes around them who didn't know how to play with him. Like Kelly Ubrae, Brad Wanamaker, right? Those type of guy. They had to like say, all right, let's cater this thing around Steph. But they got these young guys who they aren't playing like that. They're not like, hey, let's get Steph open.

Let's make quick decisions. Let's move the ball. Let's flare screen and read and react. Like you got to be smart. It was just a bad mix, right? And it's hard to say Steve is wrong. If you watch these guys play, there's a school of thought

is like, hey, give them time, right? Put them out there to figure it out. This is what young players get. They're normally on a bad team. You get to just roll out there and look terrible for a while and eventually you get it. But like, if you're watching them, you can see, it's not working, right?

If you're Steve Kern, you've got a responsibility to Steph Curry to Clay Thompson, Dr. Bond Green, you can't be putting guys out there who don't know where to go. So it was just a, it was a bad setup. They were ready to pivot. it was going to be old school, Colin. It was going to be the big man who could run the floor and catch the ball in the paint, right? You got comminga finishing at the rim.

A traditional, like they were going to pivot. They weren't a big man. They never had that. It was Zaza Pachulia, David West and Andrew Boggis, centers who didn't score. They were like, Wiseman, all right, this is the new era, this chase in her, right? We're going to have a big man. And Steph came back and blew that all up and they weren't prepared to switch back. So that's been the big riff.

But Steve's clearly like, listen, man, we want championships with the way we play. So we're running this. It's like Nova Kane. You just keep give it time. It always worked. Let's pivot back to Andrew Wiggins. And, you know, again, I put it out there. I had a couple people tell me they doubted strongly he would return.

And my takeaway is, I believe, people. Is it been an uncomfortable story for you because you are a journalist? you're a guy that is constantly looking to uncover things when you wrote your KD book, Steph book, you gave me nuggets that I never knew. That's what you do. Has it been hard to cover it knowing it's intensely private? The organization's not going to let it out, but your job is to cover stuff and uncover stuff. It hasn't been hard because this team just has 58 storylines all the time, right?

So we can always fall. back on, yo, right about Steph, right about Clay, right about Draymond. But the difficulty is, this is one of the rare situations where nobody's telling you anything. That's the difficulty, right? It's like, you know, they've, they've really kind of closed ranks. And this is the same team where they had a videotape leak, right? Like an unprecedented leak of a practice punch. So I think they just got so fed up that they were like,

this is one we're going to stop, right? And that, that to me is the most difficult part where it's like you talk to people and the people who normally be like, hey, man, I'm going to tell you what's going on. Don't write it. Even they're like, yeah, we can't, we're not telling you anything because just know it's bad

and just trust us, right? So in that sense, it's been, it's not difficult because, like, I mean, these are pros, man, they won championships. You know if there was a player who they thought to be on the court and wasn't on the court, they wouldn't know how to bite their tongue. Like, Draymond would pop off on the volume, right?

People, volume sports, I'm like, why is this guy not playing? So when these dudes who are professionals at the highest level, right, who are winners, they're like, nah, man, this is bad. Like, we support them, we rock with them. We're not, we're not going to throw, like, throw them under the bus or anything like that. It's easy to trust them because you kind of know who they are. and you know what they are.

But I haven't been. It's been a long time, Kyle says I couldn't find out, like, the inner details. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's been a while. And that's a testament to Wiggins. Like, Wiggins, he doesn't put himself out there like that. And that's just kind of been his deal. And some guys, like, for most people, as you know, it's hard to shut people up.

This whole industry runs on the fact that people don't know how to shut up, right? Right. So for Wiggins, though, like, he doesn't put himself out there like that. he's very private and they are respecting it and I kind of I respect them for that right like I respect them for saying nah not a nod in this situation because you know they've literally had bites and practice that we found out about literally finally are you shocked at how good clay has played this year only because I didn't think he could get there so it's like hey these two aren't young Colin

They're not 27, not 28. Like, they're 30-something. The shocking part is just how petty and determined they are. How stubborn, right? It's like, that's a stubborn dude. Clay, he's like, I don't care what y'all say. I'm going to be Clay again. And at times, it just did not look like it.

It did not look like. Even Steve Kerr was talking about, hey, man, you're about the age. Where's time to change the game a little bit? You know, post-ups fade away. Like, chill on the, chill on the old clay. And then he go out and give Booker 33 in the first half, right? Like, he's that stubborn. Like, I don't care.

Like, it's actually kind of amazing when you think about it. Like, these dudes are, oh, a little bit has to do with the modern times, right? Players are playing longer. The load management, this is where it pays off in situations like this, right? This is what their trainers and the scientists are saying, this is why you do it. because look, a guy can come back for two injuries and regain his career. So we just never seen this before. We haven't seen Brian.

Steph dropped 50 at 35. He just turned 35. And he dropped 50 like it was nothing, right? These dudes are kind of modern marvels in that sense. But there was some times where Clay didn't look like he would get back. And it was hurting the team, right? It was hurting the team because he's trying to show you, I still got it, right? It was like you, you know how you get out there.

You try to do them old moves you used to do back when you was dancing. You know, when the last time, you break dance. You're like, no, I still got it. I still got it. Then you throw out your back. Like, Clay used to have those type of moments. No, I still got it and he's missing, right? Oh, no, game six Clay.

And it's like, hey, dude, you're four for 20. So you didn't know he would get back here. And then he's like, has a stretch where he goes nuts, absolutely nuts. And he looks like the old clay again. Like, I respect the stubbornness. That dude, he told us he was going to be back. And we didn't believe him. but he's back.

Marcus Thompson, as always. Enjoy the roadie. Great seeing you again, buddy. You don't break dance, do you? You're done, right? No. Although, you get a cocktail in me. Shit gets wild.

Hey, man, two step in the name of love. That's it. Just one, two. We at that age, college, just one, two. That's it. Way with the beat. Don't be doing too much. Good seeing you, man.

All right. Peace out. The volume. Make sure to check out the drain. on Green Show. I brought Draymond Green into the volume because one of the more entertaining voices in sports, unique perspective, understands behind the rope, also chops up with guests like Gary Payton, Zach Levine, Tracy McGrady.

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