The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Trey Lance Concerns, Patriots Red Flags, LIV Outrage with John Middlekauff

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Colin and  3 and Out podcast Host John Middlekauff discuss possible landing spots for Jimmy G with Baker Mayfield in Carolina (4:00), if the Niners have doubts about Trey Lance heading into camp (7:00), if Zach Wilson tabloid headlines are cause for bigger concern (10:00), if the Patriots are in big trouble without Josh McDaniels calling plays (13:00), if Deshaun Watson is a Top 10 quarterback (23:00), if Lamar Jackson should hire an agent and get his extension (27:00), if USC’s move to the B1G is the best thing for the sport (29:00), and if the media is overreacting to top golfers leaving for the Saudi LIV golf tour (32:00). Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #Herd   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

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And it just got off a plane, spent kind of the weekend hiking and hanging out with a buddy and the family in Park City. It was great. Hope you're having a great, great summer. We're going to have about four or five announcements starting in a couple of weeks here at the volume. NFL stuff, a new college football show. I think you're going to love all of it. And so we always appreciate your support. And let's bring in John Middlet's, my buddy, the former NFL scout.

So I had said on the show last week, the one place, now that Baker Mayfield's off the market, the one place that felt like it would work for Jimmy G. was Tampa because he's such a good soldier. He's such a good guy that Brady may have more trouble with him than Jimmy would have been a backup to Brady. But now that Brady's going to leave after the year, it's like, I think it'll all be sympathical. Like it's, you know, Tom's not threatened by him. and Jimmy is going to get paid a lot of money to be in a really good football team. So there was a story of Sports Illustrator reported

the Bucks and Jimmy G. What do you make of it? I mean, it would make some sense, right? If you factor in that they don't really have, I mean, they would have been screwed. If Tom retired this year, what were they going to do? I mean, they were in major, major trouble. Like you said, I mean, he's either going to the Miami Dolphins next year

or he's calling a quits. I mean, it's pretty clear. I think Jimmy's in a weird spot because he's clearly good enough to be a starter at several places. Right. But, you know, the musical chairs have all ended. And now that Baker, part of the reason to me, Baker's there, is because Jimmy is a much more reliable human, clearly.

Yeah. But he's expensive. You know, they're paying Baker, you know, guaranteed that $3 million, then depending on how he plays, it might be able to more. It's nothing. It's nothing. Jimmy is on the books for, if someone trades for him, unless he does some maneuvering, I think it's almost $27 million.

Right. So that's not the $50 million quarterback, but that's not even the 18 million that Sam and Baker, you know, are both on the hook for. Now, obviously, Baker's getting split up. 18's a lot less than 27. You know, when you talk about it's, you know, middle of July. So if Tampa, the thing is though Jimmy's contract ends, right,

it's only one more year. Now it would make sense. Tampa's a good spot. Jason Light, New England guy. They have some connections. Jimmy's a good guy. and he's a solid player, not a great player, not a bad player. I think you're really getting a good player or a good person who you feel comfortable

can just get you through some stuff while you figure other things out. Yeah, I could see them saying, listen, get into our system, watch Tom for a year like you did in New England, Tom's leaving the second the season's over and will give you two years at the helm. I could see them making a deal and I can see Jimmy G being comfortable with that. He's just the kind of guy that would work. You know, you know a lot about the Niners. So Mike Silver was on this week. And, you know, his report was he had heard, you know, and fans only want rose colored glasses when you talk about their team.

If you ever criticize their team, I mean, I've been making fun of the Raiders for 20 years. I've been right 20 straight years except last year. And but Tray Lance, optically, it's an ugly release. It is not pretty. He's not a high completion guy. He's never going to be Drew Breeze. There are stories of arm fatigue. I trust my sources.

They're keeping Jimmy G around. I think they believe that Jimmy, I think they believe Tray Lance can win games in this system. It's a really favorable quarterback system. Matt Schaub made a Pro Bowl in this. Matt Ryan was an MVP. Jimmy Garoppolo won 70% of its games. You're not needing. Josh Allen here, guy hurtling over people.

Lamar Jackson making plays with his feet. This is really built. Just don't just don't pull the Mercedes into a tree. It is a little concerning. Isn't it when you hear various reporters? And I trust my sources that they've got, they do worry a little about his accuracy. Yeah, I thought the games that he played last year were not pretty.

But if you were going to give him somewhat of a pass, right, small school guy that had the season wiped out, hadn't played. So he was going to get this offseason. And I went to a lot of the OTA praxis. I would say he's improved, but the arm release is still a work in progress. That is something. Kyle kind of downplayed it. Like it's not a big deal.

They are working on it. I had been told in the off season before the praxis, he was trying to shorten up. And there were moments at practice where it was like, oh, that looked very compact, got out of it. And then there were other, it's just muscle memory. So you resort, Josh Allen has a loopier release, but he gets rid of it fast. You know, there's a difference between having a longer release and still getting rid of it quickly and a longer release. You know, Tebow's the worst case that takes a long, Sam Donald has a long loopy release. Now, the thing differentiates Trey from like Sam, for example, he does have power behind it.

Now, to me, down the field, he's playing on a team, Colin, with he has the best left tackle. He has arguably the best play caller, one of the best two or three. he has a ton of running backs. He has a pro ball fullback, a pro ball tied in, a pro ball wide receiver. Brandon Ayuk's good. Joanne Jennings is going to be a good player. It's a perfect situation for the guy. They're going to run the ball a ton.

They just need him to be... Jimmy wasn't at his moments last year. He's not replacing Tom Brady here, right? Or Aaron Rogers. So the bar is not as high, I think, as we act. Now, where the bar is high, the team's good. And the team expects to win double-digit games, compete in the playoffs, which is always difficult.

You know, if you go back to Russell Wilson, right, and it was different circumstances because he was a third round pick. They played defense and they ran the ball and then he slowly became the star. I think ultimately it's kind of they want that trajectory, right? Play good defense, run the ball, probably have more weapons in terms of throwing the ball than Russell did early on in his career. But to me, that's going to be Kyle's mindset, which right. There's a story that broke this weekend, and I don't know what the heck to do with it, that Zach Wilson's girlfriend broke up with him. because Zach Wilson is shagging his mom's best friend. And as I read that flying back to L.A., I'm like, what am I supposed to do with that?

He's a good-looking kid. It's too consenting adults. So I'll get past that. But I do think, I think Zach is really an interesting case because Jared Goff looked like a complete bust when he had the wrong coach, a defensive coach. Zach Wilson was wildly inconsistent last year. But if you told me I had to pick Zach Wilson or Robert Sala going forward, I'd pick Zach Wilson. I think he's got real talent.

I think he moves well. He's got a really quick release. He's got a lot of heat on it. You know, his judgment, he's young. Guys do what they do. This story doesn't in any way screw up his career. But like if you were, if you were, this is New York City, they have tabloids, if you were in the Jets and read that story,

would you say, oh shit, or would you just be like, I don't care? Well, it's kind of twofold. There's nothing you can do. But you and I talked about this last year before the draft. He's coming from, you know, Utah and then at Provo and BYU, it's a very isolated area to New York where the franchise, whether he went to the Giants or the Jets, it's a disaster. Right. So these stories, it's. It's not like they can just talk about, well, they won two playoff games last year. This thing is just going to, this is going to be a talking point right there with the Yankees for the next week. And I sneaky think, Colin, there's a lot of pressure on the Jets, not to make the playoffs, but you can't have another four-win season.

You've got back-to-back drafts. You now have a quarterback. You have multiple wide receivers. You draft a running back. You draft all these offensive linemen. He signed all these defensive guys. Robert Sala was interviewing twice, you know, a couple years ago. Then he finally gets the job where he's interviewing everywhere.

my issue with younger coaches, and I'm a little biased because I work for Coach Reed who calls the plays. I've been around Kyle who calls the plays. But when you're a young coach, I would say like 45 and under and I hire you, I want you to call the side of the ball why I'm hiring you. Like I'm not hiring you for to be the CEO like you're a 62 year old. Robert Sol is in his early 40s. The defense was awesome. Then he gets the Jets job and he gives it all. He gives the defensive coordinator job away.

Like I want him to call plays. Look at McVeigh. Look at the floor. Look at Kyle. And I know it's a little different. Zimmer coaches can do it on defense. Right. And he's not calling defense.

He's a good guy. He's a raw, raw guy. But I'd also like his schematic impact. And that's why you brought LaFleur's brother to call the offense. But I think the Jets, you know, I don't think they don't have to win nine, ten games to make the playoffs. But I do not think they can just be a train wreck. Like, what's the point of these last two years? You got to make some progress eventually.

Yeah. And it's also troubling because I think Miami smartly pivoted to the offensive side of the ball. and I think two is going to play very well. We know Buffalo is head and shoulders above everybody. I'm going to pick Miami over New England because I don't think Bella check without Tom. How about Josh, Colin? Matt Patricia might call their offensive plays. Matt Patricia, that's insane.

It's a little bit of a disengaged 2022 mess. You know, what it goes to show you, what the Patriots go to show you in this league, John, if you don't have the right quarterback, shit gets ugly. fast. Pete Carroll. They're going to be a three-win team. Belichick. Zimmer's a very good coach. Vic Fangio is a top five defensive mind. You don't have the quarterback right.

You look like you're lost. I think one thing the Patriot people will say, though, is one constant, even when Tom left. Remember, they had Cam Newton and somehow went seven to nine and last year was Josh. I mean, Josh has been there 90% of the time. And now he's gone and he took, like they handled Patricia

leaving. They handled floor as leaving. They've lost defensive coaches. But for the most part, Josh has been the constant. And the one time they lost Josh, Bill O'Brien came right in. Obviously, he's, you know, I know people think he's a village idiot, but he's not that bad. Obviously, right? He went to the playoffs. He's with Nick Saban. I think the Josh

lost from people I know that have been around that, I think it could be crippling. No, Eric Mangini, who won three rings there, has been very reluctant to ever criticize Belichick. He has told me twice, I think both times on the air, people do not understand that Josh McDaniels was probably once Kyle Shanahan got a head coaching job, the best OC in the game.

And it may not be that close. He's like, you just, you know, Josh McDaniels is in that two or three, you know, LaFleur was a top OC. Shanahan was. I don't know. You know, I've said this is that. that it's Greg Popovich. You age very quickly when the superstar exits. And if you ever believe the culture is bigger than the players,

and I think Popovich and Belichick have kind of embraced that, it gets ugly fast. I mean, San Antonio is not in the discussion as a top seven team, eight team in the West. They're just not in the discussion. Haven't been in years. Years. And we think he's the best coach in basketball. So the New England thing is a bit of a mess.

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Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform. became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

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And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions.

bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I saw this. I don't want to give this a ton of time because I don't think Baker Mayfield's that interesting anymore. And Cleveland will be when they get to Sean Watson. they're both taking shots at each other. They're both leaking stuff. The Browns are leaking that Baker's immature. You know, Baker's leaking, that his side is leaking, that Kevin Stefansky, you know, missed a meeting. Wouldn't talk to him.

Yeah, I don't think anybody cares. I mean, this is pro sports. But I think the Deshawn Watson thing, there are stories last week that there are a lot of people now believing that the judge, a woman, is not going to hand over a very stashon. suspension. Now, my guess is if she comes out and says, it's not criminal. There's no suspension. Goodell is going to have to levy something or the league will get destroyed. It will be a month long negative PR mess. But he also doesn't want to go eight from zero to eight because he's compensated by the owners. What I'm interested in is the judge. The judge, says, I can't suspend him.

And Godell's like, I got to suspend him. And my guess is it'll be six games, but not Thanksgiving. How do you think it all plays out? Yeah, I mean, I've been adamant. I thought it was a BP fastball for the NFL to do it just indefinitely. Now, I know that they have changed. Just indefinitely until everything with all the cases gets taken care of. Like, why do they want to keep dealing with this?

He's with Cleveland now. They do not care about the Cleveland Browns. You know, ultimately the league hummed last year without Deshawn Watson. Now, all these stories, clearly he pushed it off to this arbitrator. Like you said, he can come over it. I think he has to give him a year because the negative PR. And this gets back to his decisions, you know, years ago where he got destroyed for Ray Rice when he saw the video and everyone's like, how could you possibly do that?

I will be stunned, Colin, if he plays this year. Now, if you tell me tomorrow all these girls recant and obviously the information fluid. No one truly knows except him and her. I'm always uncomfortable with these like, he said she said things, because no one knows except these two people. But I just know I'm 37, my entire adult life. Usually these cases are one versus one. This is just pretty outrageous, right? I mean, this is, this jumped the shark a long time ago. And regardless, whether he's, I don't know if he's a criminal, I don't know if he's innocent, but I do know his judgment as a quarterback. We hold him to very, very high standards, right? The way to act,

the way to conduct yourself. How do you trust this? guy. His judgment and decision making as a human being, which as a quarterback, they're intertwined because you're carrying the franchise are more than questionable moving forward. They just are. And he was always known as a great guy. You know, everyone thought his character was pristine. Well, a lot of great guys can be weird guys. A lot of the stories read as weird, you know, just weird habits. Whether or not they're criminal, that's for courts to decide. For sure. But, you know, the last time we saw him, Joe Burrow wasn't Joe Burrow. Her. Herbert wasn't this good.

Kiler wasn't this good. And I thought about this. Josh Allen's gotten a lot better. I liked Deshawn. I never thought he was a beautiful thrower of the football. I thought he was athletic. I thought he was a playmaker. But I never thought he threw a ball as pretty as a lot of the guys that move around.

You know, it's Lamar Jackson wasn't that good. You know, my takeaway the other day I did a top 10 quarterback list. I wouldn't have put him in it. Not that I don't like him. I don't consider him an elegant thrower. We've had four or five young quarterbacks take major leaps. I think Derek Carr has taken a leap, frankly, in the last two years. What is Deshaun Watson now?

I had friends in the NFL that two years ago when he was having the great statistical season. Remember, they were terrible that year. I think they won four games, and Bill O'Brien got fired early. He does not have a Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes arm. No. So when you watch him, they say he really hangs his hat on. He's an instinctual player. Yeah.

When it turns into backyard football, he's incredible. Running around, his athleticism, his ability to keep plays alive, but his eyes outside the tackle box, kind of what Russell did early on in his career. But he does not have an howitzer. You know, a lot of his great plays come on instincts, which is really important. Yeah. But the knock is like, can you just sit in the pocket? Mahome style, Aaron Roger style, Tom Brady, and just pick you apart.

I don't think people ever viewed that. And remember, his best receiver was Hopkins, who you just basically threw it up and he made incredible plays. And he was great. And they had an incredible rapport. But it wasn't just picking you apart down the field time and time again. But relative to the rest of the league,

I would put him somewhere between like seven. And again, this is, we are a long way removed. You know, your best, one of my favorite takes of yours is the Johnny Gruden thing. You don't go away from an industry and come back. And that's coaching. No different athletics. Football is not like basketball, where you can just, even in the offseason,

go get legit pickup games in L.A. with other pros. Or baseball, take simulated BPs. There's either football with your team where you're playing the sport or there's working out. And it has nothing to do with that. Right. So he is, there's no way he's gotten better. And the famous saying in football, and I would imagine in most industries,

you're either getting better or getting worse, nobody stays the same. Now, maybe he's still young. He can get back to that level. But I would say he's in a major. hole right now of getting, like you said, passed by these other guys that have been playing and improving. Oh, I mean, since he left, Josh Allen, Burrow, Herbert, I think Derek Carr's gotten better. Maybe Lamar Jackson has regressed a little. I just, Russell Wilson's now in the AFC. I don't consider him a top. And again, nice player. I don't consider him a top five

AFC quarterback. I never thought he was Aaron Rogers. I never thought he was Brady. I don't think he's his talent at a thrower is Matt Stafford. Yeah. It is interesting. The Lamar Jackson story, and I don't know what to make of it, he changed his Twitter and Instagram profile this weekend, and he says, I need money. I don't remember who said this. Maybe it was Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson.

I don't remember who said this, but they said, if you are representing yourself, you have an idiot for a client. Who said that? There's an old quote about that. He represents himself. That's a good one. And it's like, Lamar, you can't represent yourself. I always feel with Lamar Jackson and his contract,

it's kind of a fuzzy, mismanaged, poorly communicated mess. Am I reaching? What do people say? Well, I think it goes back to the Combine. remember he refused to run. There was one guy that said he was a wide receiver. Most people thought he was a quarterback. Fast guys of the combine should run.

Well, who was representing his mom? You know, and so they're like, we're not going to run, we're not going to show it. Lamar, if Lamar would have gone to the combine and ran, he never would have been there at 32. You know why? He would have ran like a 4-28 if people would have had to pick him. To me, the contract thing,

I know someone in Baltimore, they love them. And I've come around on them a lot. I wasn't a big fan coming out in the draft. the stuff I hear about the character and how his team and how he's improved and how much he loves football, he's everything you want. No, I like, I like his competitive spirit. There's a lot I like that. To me, if you're going to represent yourself, you got to be like 33 and Richard Sherman and already had multiple contracts and know what you're doing.

Yes. Your first big contract, when you're kind of already a polarizing, like, do we want to give a guy that's going to run around a lot? This is, it's actually an easy one for the Ravens, right? They're just like, just keep pushing it down, pushing it up. They would love to play this thing out, right? I mean, that's, and to me, he's in this weird spot where he does have a lot of leverage. They can't operate without him. They need him to make, I think they're going to be pretty good.

If you tell me, they got everyone coming back. I think they're deep. They got Kyle Hamilton. They drafted the center. All their running backs are going to come back. The division's going to be a little, you know, the Bengals probably take a little bit of a step back. The Steelers offense is a disaster. Who knows with the Cleveland Browns.

They're going to be a mess all season. To me, the Ravens could easily be an 11, 12 win team. Yeah. But it starts, you know, obviously their defense. but with him, and you want him in a good spot. I mean, think how Josh Allen, Mahomes, and obviously those guys, definitely Mahomes. You could argue he's accomplished more than Josh Allen

because he won the MVP and he's, I think they both won a playoff game. But you want those guys just focused on football. You don't want this kind of carrying over once we, you know, in 20 or whatever days once we get going. All right. Two non-NFL topics with John Middlkoff. Number one, I think the most frustrating thing for me as a member of the media

is the constant outrage and political media, the overreacting in the sports media. And there's a lot of talented people, and we all have our bad days. But my takeaway on this thing about USC and UCLA joining the Big Ten is that if the PAC 12, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Arizona schools, Colorado, join the Big 12, Baylor, Oklahoma, plus BYU is going in, Houston's going in.

It's actually a pretty good. football conference. I mean, at the end of last year, you had like Baylor 4, Oklahoma State 7, Oregon was in the 20s, BYU was in the 20s. I think Houston was like 17. One of the other schools, I think, was like 12. Utah was 12. Yeah. And my takeaway, I said at this last week that college basketball men and women's gives you a template. If you expand to 16 teams, it doesn't matter where the teams come from. We don't care where Gonzaga comes from. The expanded Big Ten will put in five of the 16. SEC puts in six. The Big 12 will put in two. ACC if Miami gets their act together, two, along with Clemson. Maybe an independent can get in. Is that, yes, Oregon State and Washington State could be left out.

But let's be honest, in our lifetimes, they're probably a better fit with Fresno State, Boise State, San Diego State, where they can compete for a championship and get an automatic bid into a field of 16. So I kind of looked at the reaction to it. My takeaway is, I think it's going to work out fine. And I think when they expand the playoffs, it's going to have a college basketball field to it. Yeah, I mean, I think just born and raised on the West Coast and I grew up going to Cal football games. I mean, Cal lost a game last year to

Arizona that I thought was pretty symbolic of the conference where Berkeley didn't allow them to take like 25 players. And they played with a bunch of backups and that's where Jed Fish got his one win. We just don't care about my. I mean, the things you have to overcome politically out here. Football is just not that important. What is it at USC? You know, and they're taking it very, very seriously financially.

So to me, losing them, I think emotionally to a lot of people, I get it. It sucks. But let's face it, the Pac-12 died years ago. Yeah. I mean, it's been beyond irrelevant. And if it wasn't for them kind of getting lucky to get Chris Peterson at Washington, the Pac-12 never would have sniffed a playoff game, you know? They have been closer to the Mountain West some years.

When the Mountain West is beating Fresno State, Boise, Some of these teams are beating the Pact 12 schools. So it's like, what are we doing? No, I mean, if not for Phil Knight and Chris Peterson, it's been the Mountain West. I mean, that's what it's been. I mean, Chris Peterson for about a half hour. And Phil Knight, as he continues to do, kind of spearheading that program financially. I mean, right now they're going out and paying players, which I think's legal.

I'm not sure what's legal. I'm not sure what's not. Do you think they would have wanted him? obviously Mick Cronin, the UCLA's alive again, and Lincoln Riley the last six months, they feel alive. Let's just say it was Clay and some random basketball coach still. Do you think they're still as valuable? Or do you think their momentum kind of made them more interesting? No, I think Lincoln Riley makes them very attractive. I think Mick Cronin makes UCLA very attractive. The Bruins were $100 million in debt anyway. I mean, they were going to have to cut multiple sports.

They were in shambles. All right, live golf. So my takeaway has been pretty consistent. You have to be completely naive between IOC, FIFA, the Social Olympics, the NBA in China, Saudi Arabian sheikhs buying soccer teams. But there's something about this that were outraged that independent contractors, otherwise known as PGA golfers, want exemptions. And my takeaway, if it was Yemen tour, PGA wouldn't care. If it was a Yemen tour, if it was the if it was the Portuguese tour. But it's the Saudi Arabian tour and they have a bottomless pit of cash and it scares the hell out of the PGA, which by the way, has suddenly now made some tweaks and some adjustments and they've got newfound money. What has been your basic take?

I don't know if I could join it, right? Like I, it does make me uncomfortable. But I just feel like we're piling on golfers. When I have a global sports. web of Vladimir Putin doing things, China with the NBA doing things. And I just, I can't get that outrage by it. I look at it two ways. One, I think there's a big disconnect. And again, this is the golf media. And a lot of them do business with the golf channel who's in bed with the PGA tour. So they have an agenda. I don't think most fans just purely care whether guys are taking money or not. So I think the people that are outraged, the media that's very loud about it, I don't think the golf fan cares that much. The golf fan that watch the PGA tour, I would imagine

if you just factor in all the leagues are on the higher end in terms of income, in terms of money, like they're a business, it's a business sport and it's a high end. So they get it. Now, I think from a fan standpoint of you want to watch Bryson, Kepka, DJ with the other guys. That's where it sucks. If I told you that Aaron Rogers Mahomes, this upcoming year are going to be in a different league, that would suck. Or Steph Curry, Luca, and Yokic are going to this other basketball league, you're going to have to watch them. That's where people are like, this is, it's just making it more complicated. But from a financial standpoint, no one, what's these guys are throwing out the money? They gave you 150 million dollars. They had to.

They couldn't have got Dustin Johnson, who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars for $25 million. Right. So they had to spend, the only reason this was viable is because of someone, like, this isn't viable with anyone else. Even if Elon or Bezos were interested, because they would, they'd be like, well, we don't have a TV contract yet. the ROI, we're not going to make any money. They don't even care for the foreseeable future. And this also gets back to Greg Norman, who has, you know, the story broke today. They have this special thing, the 150th Open Open Open Open, 50th Open Championship this week, British Open. All the former champions are going to play like kind of nine holes, screw around, and then have a big dinner.

Every guy that's ever won it. Well, Greg Norman's won it twice. Yeah. Obviously, Phil's won it. Louis Oostezen, who's also in Live, has won it. Those guys did not get told they can't come. They said, come on in. They told Greg Norman, do not show up. And obviously the PGA Tour now is in bed with the European. It's all business. It's all infighting, you know.

And ultimately, Greg Norman 30 years ago had this idea for golf tournaments to feed the top players money. The PGA tour stole it. It's called the WGC. So he has a vendetta against him. And he would not be able to take them down, Colin, unless he had this money pit, which you had. And that's where I think a lot of the media who are threatened because of this sport now that's

kind of been booming. It's been growing a little bit without Tiger too. It feels like, are we going to now take step back? and the league's not going to be as important. So I think there are just so many agendas. It's why a lot of the players, if you hear them talking, go, I understand it. It just ultimately sucks.

I want everyone on this tour, so it's the best. But no other league has where it's just like, we got a tournament this weekend. Who's going to show up? We don't know. It's like, if it's the NBA playoffs, you know exactly who's going to be there. Week one for the NFL, unless people are hurt,

you know who's going to play. If I just tell you, you know, the random tournament in Florida's going on, you're like, well, two of the top 10 guys might be there. Who knows? They get to choose. And that has ultimately hurt them. But it goes back to the way the business set up with the nonprofit. There are all these complicated.

It's just too complicated, honestly. I mean, all the other major sports dropped that the tax exemption years ago, just because they didn't want to deal with it, they were getting too big. And maybe that's the way the PG. You can still funnel money to charities without being that way. And maybe that's where they need to pivot to. Yeah, I think, listen. I feel like you.

I feel some of the golf writers have a bit of an agenda. I had Rick Riley on my show. You know, and I said, you know, I'll play devil's advocate. You know, our government has a strong economic alliance with them and has post-9-11, post-murder of the Washington Post-Journalist. And he said, well, but we have to do that. And I think, not really. Not really. We don't.

We can survive without, I mean, only 5% of the oil coming to American. Now, it's Saudi oil. So we're fine without them. So someone told me a former PJ Tour player that said one point, and this is interesting, right, they do a lot of revenue sharing. And when Fox bought, when they were in the golf game, remember, they bought the U.S. Open. And I think it was like $98 million on the first time they ever had it at Chambers Bay, and that's what it was.

And the pot, and this is what made Phil really mad. So $98 million and the purse was like $12 million. And once Fox got it, it went up to like $15. And Phil goes, we're not asking for 80 of the 90, but how is his purse not 40 million? Where's the money going? Yeah. And that's, I think, there's been a lot of put. And he's led the charge, Phil, because again, like Norman, business guy, very aggressive, big alpha.

And butted head sometimes with the PJ, or some of these guys, they're making so much money. And I put DJ and Kepka under that. These golfers, I mean, the tough guys make a ton off and on the course. But once you, someone throws in golf, the money's not guaranteed. have to earn it. Right. So once a guy cut you a $100 million check, it's why Kepka says, I'm not in. And then like, well, you want $25 million more? We'll make it $125. Said, I'm in. And now he's gone. And I don't think he's going to stop. Well, think about Howard Stern and Joe Rogan. So they build up, they build up, they build up, they build up these big audiences.

And then Sirius XM says to Howard and Spotify says to Joe Rogan, okay, we're going to pay the bag. What 100% of your audience is going to follow you? Probably 75%. But you get generational wealth. And Stern and Rogan had worked for years at their craft. And that's where I look at a lot of these guys. Like Phil Mickelson and Greg Norman have been doing this forever. I joked the other day, I'm going to be selling reverse mortgages,

coins and have a Depends commercial in like 18 years. Like, that's my takeaway. Now, a young golfer, you really do have to pay him $150 million. But like Phil Mickelson, like, he's got the legacy. He's got the majors. I think a lot of people, you could go to, I just my whole career, I've watched guys that they dominate an industry. They're really, really great. And then they get to a point where Howard's like $100 million a year.

I'm moving. And Joe Rogan's like, yeah, they're going to take some of my podcast. I've done, like Alex Jones, they're going to eliminate those, okay? And it's going to piss off my fans. But I don't need 100% of my audience. I'm monetizing my brand to the highest degree. And I think Phil's argument is simply an economic one. I'm just not monetizing my brand.

I'm giving away 50% of my income annually. Yeah. I don't think anyone, people, however, they might hate Phil now. But like, Phil to me is completely understandable where live is trying to screw the PGA tour, it'd be essentially like if another NFL was started by the Saudis and they went to Alabama, Ohio State and USC and got their top players, they are offering the top amateurs that turn into Scotty Sheffler or Jordan Speeth a ton of money. And they've been lucky that a lot of these guys are American-born, grew up, you know, tend country club kids that I don't, that want to

play on the PGA tour have turned them down. But if they get three or four of those, if they get the next Jordan Spieth or whatever to go, then they might have something. The problem, though, is how is Liv, Liv's benefit. PJ Tour creates stars, right? Through winning, through building up your brand. If you just go to Live and they give you $5 million a 22-year-old, how do you become a star on that to turn into Rory, to turn into Jordan?

That's where it gets difficult and that's what the PJ Tour has over them. That's what I've always said about the G League. If the G League gave you $2 million, I'd still go to Duke. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. Ask Zion how that worked out for him. I mean, he became a superstar. Did you see the draft this year?

One G league guy at the top, a bunch of college guys. The bottom line is, the NBA has demonized college basketball forever. You guys realize March Madness beats the NBA in ratings, sometimes hammers it? Are you going to tell me that Jalen Suggs, Zion Williamson? I don't know who these guys are in the G League. So I think your point is, if I was a young golfer, Now, Brooks Kepka and Bryce Nishammo and Dustin Johnson, they have real brands. They're the alphas on the tour.

But I could never take it as a young guy. I probably wouldn't take it up on Brooks Kepka, although I'm not, you know, holier than now on this. But I get the older golfer who feels he's left 50% of his revenue. I get the 56 year old. Or how old's Phil, 40 what? Phil, I think just it's like 51. He turned 50 last year.

So he's over. There's no way to make that. I get it. I really do. And you can say what you want. But let's go back to NBA, China, Social Olympics. Let's not be too precious on this thing.

Whoever your sport is, you just need to be able to build up stars. And I've always said about the NFL, one thing they really have going for them. I was watching the NBA draft. I don't think the majority of people really knew who, even the guys that played at Duke or Auburns, like how many games had they seen?

When the NFL draft happened, you're like, oh, I watched Alabama play four times. I know half those guys. Or I watch Georgia. or I watch USC or Texas. We know all these guys when they get in the league, even the third rounders. So it's just easier to hit the ground running where I think that's what basketball, it looks like they've actually got a pretty good crop these last couple years.

But you need the college to keep pumping you people. I've never said this before, but I thought it with a buddy this weekend. So the least popular TV sport of the big four is hockey. They have a completely anonymous minor league system. The second most anonymous minor league system is, baseball. It gets the second worst ratings. But a lot of people in America do go to minor league baseball games. So it's not as bad as hockey, although it gets no TV. Yeah. Okay. The third worst is college basketball, which used to be dynamic. Now it's one and done. And then, of course,

the best is the NFL. So think about this. The popularity in the big foreign America goes in a linear order. The better and more viewed your minor league system, I have more emotional connection. NFL is number one. College football is the best feeder system. Big ratings. Basketball two, baseball, three, hockey, four. So this, and it's to your point, the NBA has never understood this. The G League, then these guys like Jalen Green go to bad teams. I don't see them for five years, I can't, you know, I still, if the Orlando Magic are on TV, I stop to watch Jalen Suggs. If the Pelicans are on, I stop to watch Zion. I think the NBA butcher's this. And I love Adam Silver. I think they don't have any idea. They're just, it is like a microwave.

They microwave your stars for you. Four games in the tournament, huge ratings for Zion, the whole country. You don't have to pay them anything. Just let them do it. It's free. It's unbelievable. I was watching the hockey draft the other day. I was just bored. It was on like Wednesday night. I was like, I'll check it out. The first pick was from like Slovenia.

I mean, all their guys, that none of them are from here. So we've never, even if you did watch hockey, you wouldn't ever have seen them. So I'm, when I was a kid in the 90s and Michael in the NBA,

college basketball, Alan Iverson, Shaq, you were locked in on those guys like you would be Tua. Or this year with Bryce Young or CJ, you wanted to watch the prospects. And now it's, I mean,

the G League team, Jalen Green, they played in my backyard in Walnut Creek. I think they just moved to Vegas. That's where they're going to play next year. But for two years, they've played in Walnut Creek. And obviously, I think this year it was much worse because two years ago, they had Jalen

and Cominga. Like, that was a pretty good crew. But now Duke and Texas and they can pay you a premium. Why wouldn't you just take the million dollars and go play there for a year and get seen on national television a bunch? Yeah, I think one of the things that's happening, college basketball is going to go in a little bit of a renaissance here. The NIL is great for college basketball.

If a Duke can pay you 400,000 and the G-Leaks paying you 500,000, seriously. The coaching's better at Duke. You know who's awesome at college basketball now? Who? The SEC. Why? Because of college football money. The SEC, what Larry Scott wanted to be awesome at the Olympic sports, and forever

the Pac-12 hung their hat on the Olympic sports. Well, then the SEC for a decade, led by Sabin and now these other guys have printed so much money. All their Olympic sports have gone like this, and they're paying college basketball coach five, six million dollars. Their golf teams fly private. Did you watch the college world series? Half of them were from the SEC. You know, it used to be UCLA, Stanford. Like, no, it's those guys because they have the money. So back to USC and UCLA, ultimately like it changes your program. I saw the UCLA athletic director, like you said, they were going to cut the program. He's like, now, not only can we not

cut programs, we can reinvest. So instead of losing our, you know, tennis coach to Auburn, because they can double his salary, now we can pay. And that to me is where college sports is really gone. The SEC and college basketball, you notice a lot of top recruits are going to play down there. Yeah. All right, John Middlecough, host of Three and Out at the Volume and the Go Low Pod. Great Golf Podcast is always buddy on a Sunday night, which will air Monday morning. Great seeing you.

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