The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - UConn vs. Duke MADNESS, Final Four Is Set, Top 5 NBA Prospects, Big Ten Resurgence

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Colin is joined by Doug Gottlieb, men’s basketball coach at University of Wisconsin Green Bay to react to the latest March Madness, NCAA, and NBA basketball stories. They start by reacting to UConn’s last second win over Duke in the Elite 8 quarterfinals. Next they discuss UNC basketball and whether Chicago Bulls coach Billy Donovan will leave the NBA to coach the Tar Heels. Next they discuss Rick Pitino and St. John’s. Finally they discuss the NBA draft and what to do with AJ Dybantsa, Darryn Peterson, Cameron Boozer, and more. (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And they were very viable to the very end. And I've been keeping in contact with Doug and his basketball journey. And I thought, let's get him on here and talk about a lot of different stuff. I told Doug today, I said, hey, this Yukon Duke game, it's getting lopsided. If you want to record this early, he's like, hold on. It's Dan Hurley. Let's hold on. And he was right.

So it's good seeing you. We've talked several times. You know, Doug, it's funny about Yukon. I mean, we both lived there for a long time. It's really, they're like a pitcher who gets better in the later innings. Like, they're so good in the second half. They just wear you down. They're so physical.

The boozer kids had a couple of bad turnovers. It's just like they're kind of built for March. The refs let you play a little bit, like the NBA playoffs. The games get physical. Were you shocked they came back to beat Duke? Yes. Yeah, from this perspective. You know, again, like you watch it.

I've always watched it a little bit differently, right? In my analyst days, now as a coach, you watch it completely differently. And I was so impressed by Duke's preparedness for all of what Yukon does. You know, Yukon's post double, they just sliced it and diced it for the first, I know, two-thirds of the game. And then Yukon, they don't really, they don't really have, they have a half-court offense, but they run a lot of sets and pre-plan stuff. And when you have one day to prep, you can't really,

you can't prep for everything somebody does, you know? Right. So you got it. You have to have to have to have kind of the fundamental core. This is what we do when this type of set, when this type of offense, if it's a Zoom, you know,

if it's an away action, if it's a ball screen, whatever. Again, like I watch, I'm watching this game going, man, how does Duke know everything that Yukon's

doing and they're using it against them. Empty side ball screens, easy dunk layup. And then something just changed, you know, where they started to get stops. They got a couple run-throughs. They hit a couple shots. You know, Mullins hit the big three obviously to win it. But he missed one right before the TV timeout with like 12 and change. And I was like, ah, they're not going to get over that hump, you know, because they had other

opportunities to get it back to where all of a sudden you get some clenching for. from Duke. So I just, again, that's it, it's an incredible staff. And Danny's, there's no perfect coach, there's no perfect people. But the one thing Danny is, he's a fighter. And, you know, his whole sideline demeanor, which everybody talks about, it's all directed at the officials and the crowd. It's not directed at its players.

Yeah. Now, look, I can't get away with it. You know, I got a T this year. I didn't say anything. Like, it was crazy. But he pushes that board. But what it does is he fights for his players to the very last moment. And the players are the players play above their level of toughness, if that makes any sense.

Like he's got tough kids, but they play even tougher because they got that maniac over there on the sideline. I think that's all part of why it works. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for a while, it was terrorist Reed against Duke. I mean, seriously, he was the offense. And it was, it was funny because I kept thinking, Oh, man, they just need a Stefan Castle.

They just need another NBA. That's what this team is missing. They don't have a throw it to the dude. He's going to go get you a bucket guy. Not what they have? Yeah. They were 30th in the country. I mean, I've watched them get blown out by Marquette.

I mean, they just have nights when they can't hit shots. But there is a toughness to Yukon. I mean, I've just always liked the program. And what's interesting, you go from Calhoun, who, like Hurley, just preach toughness. just just grind. And it took him a while. They had Kevin Ali. They had coaches.

And then they find Hurley. Hurley's a little bit of an extension of Calhoun. Oh, yeah. Where he's just really top. They kind of found their secret sauce. It's not the sexiest program, but they always have length. They always have toughness. They play defense.

You know, it's interesting. And Michigan, Arizona looks like the marquee game. But, you know, be careful because Yukon and Illinois are great. in your world, it's fascinating about this. So Illinois has a player that was the 261st-ranked player in high school. I mean, literally a small town public high school guy, the Keaton Wagler kid. And he shows up, he may be a lottery pick. And what's fascinating about college basketball is that, and you're in this world now,

you have to project a lot. I mean, even in an NBA draft now, some of these guys are 19, 20 years old. In the NFL draft, as you know, a lot of guys have been in school four years. I got three years of playing tape. I don't have to project. I kind of know if you have good feet, bad hands. When you recruit, how much do you know, like with this kind of kid and how much are you just kind of hoping? Well, here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to tell you story. I'm going to do Storytime with Collins instead of Colin doing storytime. So his A.U. He is a guy named Victor Williams. Victor Williams was the point guard after I graduate. He redshirted it because he transferred him from Illinois State my senior year. And so Vic runs his own program. It's independent in Kansas City, Missouri.

And when I tell you, he called everybody, everybody and said, hey, I have a pro. And now he's on an independent circuit. So some of this is that he's on a circuit called recruit look. And, you know, I was there. there this summer. I mean, I learned my lesson really, really early and that you just have to be so thorough because there's going to be guys that fall through the cracks. So remember, what's happened since COVID is guys are getting extra years. You know, Yaxo Landenberg, you know, he's been in school since the Beatles were out, you know, like, I mean, it's so, so the trend in college

basketball has been get old stale. That's everybody says, get old stale. And after my first year, at the end of the year, we had eight freshmen, one junior, one sophomore. And I was like, man, I got it. I told my staff, I said, look, we're a nightclub, okay, 21 and over. Nobody gets in 21 and over. Right. But then you saw this year, the freshman class has been outstanding. And he's the one that was most overlooked.

And I think he was most overlooked because he wasn't on the shoe circuit. He was, how about this one? He was loyal to his AAU coach. right he was there's a one of them the the best uh a u programs in the country is called mokan mocan mocan elite they're out of kansas city now they have kids from oklahoma they have kids from all over and they play on the ybl circuit that's the nike circuit so whether i don't know i think they invited him to try out for it and he didn't why because he was actually loyal to vick williams who he played for since like seventh grade so all these things one

high school, I mean, college head coaches, a lot of them don't go out. And if they do, they just go to Peach Jam and watch the Crem de la Crem. And then, you know, their assistants, we're so busy in the portal and recruiting overseas. And Illinois has done a very good job overseas that a lot of these kids get missed. And then you're like, well, I'd love to have an 18, 19 year old. But if I bring him in, he's not going to play, then he's going to transfer. I'm going to pay him and I'm going to develop him for somebody else. and so you got to credit Vic,

but you also got a credit Illinois. They saw him, they recruited, and they took him. And then when he showed up, they're like, holy cow, we didn't even know. There's no chance they knew he was this good, ever. So they, they, you can do it. And Illinois has a lot of money. They don't have Duke money.

They don't have Kansas money. But you can do it if you're creative. And look at their starting lineup, two overseas players who, They're well compensated, but not to the two, three, four million dollars of some of these guys. And one freshman, right, who he, he didn't cost them hardly anything. Nothing. Zero. You know, when I say nothing, for a high major team, Colin, guys that make $250,000 to $300,000 a year, don't play.

If you make that much money, you can expect to not play. I swear to God, that's the, that's the scale right now. okay so i'm guessing he's i haven't asked he's probably on that 250 300 sort of range whatever and they might have bumped him up in the regular season once he starts humming and and playing really really well um but uh it it's it's difficult you have to be thorough you're going to miss some guys but you have to use all the resources at your disposal and then go eyeball and see guys uh because what happens with the portal is yes guys have been you have a gm and or you know your job a coach is to research who might be in the portal.

But it's like speed dating. So if you don't know who you're recruiting, if you don't know what you're getting, you're taking somebody else's word for it. So you have to recruit based upon who they played for. You have to go see them with your eyes if you can. And then you really, really got to try and know the kid,

know the person so you might know what you're getting. Even then you're going to miss because recruiting is not an exact science. Well, and, you know, let's talk Michigan. So they get a die, Mara from UCLA. And at UCLA, he was averaging five a game. And then the Spaniard. And then you watch him this year, and this is just life.

I mean, we both have kids. Kids develop at different times. Now he's an offensive hub. Big guys especially. Yeah. So he's 7-3, much more aggressive offensively than at UCLA. that I saw him play twice a year at UCLA, and he was kind of, he was seven, three, he was big, he's a good passer.

You can kind of run some offense around him. He's obviously a dominant defender. It's just like, I mean, I think Michigan thought they were getting a really good player. Like, I'm watching him today live. I was at the game, and I'm like, I don't know how college guys, you know, it was like Zach Eady and they're different players, but it's like, that's hard to defend at the college level. Like Arizona's got the guard play. Michigan's big, Doug, when you're watching them live, like, I don't know if

I don't know if it. Oh, they're gigantic. Well, and then remember they have L.A. Caddoe who was at North Carolina. He too has developed. He was a non-shooter early on at North Carolina. So they've taken guys that other people have developed and then putting them in their system. And then Landenberg, I think he's just a monster. But it's a man playing against boys.

But they have all of this is portal. But all this is portal of understanding who a guy is, right? Mora, UCLA's offense is not what Michigan's offense is, right? Mick Cronin's all about toughness and then a lot of ISOs and the shot clock, whereas Michigan, it's really pretty. Oh, God, it's beautiful in person. It's beautiful. Yes.

Well, so Mike Boyton runs the defense there. He's the former Oklahoma State head coach. He's a dear friend of mine. And, you know, when Mike was at Oklahoma State, I begged him for years, hire me to run your offense. And so, you know, we share offensive stuff with Michigan. We don't have that personnel. We don't have big guys.

We don't play that way. But it's beautiful. But the point is that think about who they got. Landenberg was at Alabama Birmingham, playing for Andy Kennedy, very well coached. Okay. And Marl was at UCLA. You can pick apart anything about Mick Cronin, hell of a coach, right?

Elliot Kadoe played at North Carolina for Hubert Davis. So you're recruiting high-level. players who have been developed by high-level coaches, and then you put them in a system, and you have some money, you have quality coaching. And, I mean, they're, they're incredibly dominant. Just a dominant basketball. And they'll play Arizona. Tommy Lloyd was with Mark Few for 20 years. Now he's been at Arizona for five. He's been a coach of the year, national coach of the year twice. He was always a great recruiter for Mark. And it's, it's hard to get people to Spokane, despite the fact that it's a great program. It's much easier to get him to Arizona. And Arizona's

got a lot more money. I kind of laughed at the Tommy. Tommy's going to go to you and see him like, guys, Arizona's got, it's got a lot. Yeah, I don't laugh at that yet, Colin. Really? And that's the,

that's the, that's the working rumor in college basketball is Arizona doesn't have that much money. There's, there's some fracture in the relationship there with his athletic director. And I was told that Michael Jordan called him two nights ago. So that's the working rumor. Wow.

So I don't, again, I don't know. None of this is firsthand knowledge. But again, So look at Tommy, right? He does an incredible job with international players, but he didn't just start recruiting internationally. He's been recruiting internationally for 20 years.

He has deep relationships, but he's also evaluate. So much of this is about evaluating talent. It's no different than you cover the NFL draft and you know how to evaluate and the people you gravitate towards are people who evaluate talent well. What does it project to in a college basketball floor? is it project to and how we play. And then what does it project to? Honestly, you got to ask yourself,

how does it project what I'm paying him more money than he's ever made in his life? Right. That's probably the hardest one, right? Does he fit in our culture? So, I mean, look, Tommy's done it with these international players. Krivus, I mean, those guys are awesome. That'd come back last night and was so good. But that comes from, like, Tommy Lloyd knows who the good and bad actors are in international

basketball. Yeah. Like, if I was to show you, if I was to show you my WhatsApp inbox, I got 50 agents from Serbia to Finland to Germany to Israel to Norway to Turkey, South America. Like I got all these agents and they all send you guys. And like, look, you have to be thorough and look through all these films.

But if you don't know who the good actors and bad actors are, you're going to be guys sending you people. He's a high major player. And if you don't know, you're going to make some mistakes. Tommy makes very few mistakes in international basketball, and it comes from unbelievable relationships, and just like the rest of these guys, great evaluation of what works, what works for him, and how they're going to fit in a college basketball system. Yeah, and he does it his own way.

They don't shoot any threes. I mean, it's like, you know, I mean, the Yukon. Well, okay, so, yeah, so there's the math, right? Right. Basketball is about math, right? So, and sometime you and I, we should sit down. I'll tell you kind of how we figured out our math for our team, for our group. And it won't always be the same math because every group's different, right?

So if you can't shoot threes, Colin, what do you have to do? Well, you have to, first of all, if you can't shoot threes, you better have some size. You have to, I mean, you have to pound the ball low, obviously. I would think you'd want to slow the game down, wouldn't you? Well, you want to slow the game down usually, okay, when you have inferior talent. We played at a slower pace. We played at one of the slowest pace of the country because we didn't feel like we had the depth of athleticism, the depth of talent. And we had to be unbelievably efficient.

We're the most efficient team from two, from three, and we got to the free-fiel line time. You got to get the free-fell line. But you have to get more possessions than the other team. Okay. More possessions mean more shot opportunities. More shot opportunities usually mean you win, right? So the only way, there's two ways to get more. That was St. John's, by the way.

They couldn't shoot. St. John's had to get more possessions. Right. Right. So they had to get more possessions. How did they get it? Rebounding and turn you over. Right?

So Michigan, by the way, rebounds the hell of the basketball. Florida this year, rebounds the hell of the basketball. So there's lots of different ways to win it and to play. And you look at Tommy, and this is where you're a real coach. As you look at your team,

you're like, hey, we can't shoot threes. So how about we don't shoot threes? But when we shoot it, let's go get it. You know, let's go get it. Let's take efficient shots. And when we take inefficient shots, we had to be efficient with teaching how to offensive rebound. That's a weapon. And then you have to defensive rebound.

And then you got to figure out, okay, are we athletic enough to turn you over? Because if we can turn you over again, you win the possession game. You win the possession game. You usually win the game unless there's such a disparity in three point shots of theirs to yours. So there's a math element to it. And I love the fact that you pointed that out because Arizona is flipping the math. because most people think the only math that matters is how many threes you make versus how many threes they make.

That's not it. Okay. Free throws matter. One, because if you shoot a high percentage from free throw line, and we do, again, that's a very efficient shot. And I will also credit the change in college basketball this year, which is a big one, is they kind of added the continuation rule. A lot more continuations, a lot more free throws.

So you got to get to the freeth line. That also gets teams to their bench. and everybody's roster is built differently, but in the modern day of college basketball, most people put all their money in their starting lineups. You go to the bench, it's a house of cards. Right. So by pounding it inside,

even if post-ups are an inefficient shot, if you can rebound the basketball, or if you can get to the free throw line, now you get to their bench, and when you get to their bench, often, they don't rebound the ball nearly as well. So if you don't turn it over, you win the possession battle.

If you rebound the basketball, you win the possession. battle and you can make up for a lot of not having the volume of three point attempts if you can get to the free throw line and just overwhelm the other team with the number of field goal attempts you get as opposed to the ones that they get. Today's show brought to you by our presenting sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida Sportsbook. Biggest weekend in college basketball is almost here. The round of four is set.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to us. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a course. call about what we should call it.

We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say, hey Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smyl and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their

between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me. with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

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Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Well, you know, it's interesting, Doug. We both live in the Midwest now. Michigan State's the last team like 25 and 30 years ago to win a Natty from the Big Ten. Now they dominate the sport. At one point, I looked it up.

I was sitting there counting. At one point, favorites went 16 and O one day in this tournament, 12 and four another. And those Big Ten teams, when they're favored, I saw a stat the other day. Big Ten teams favored in the last couple of years in the tournament were 32 and five. And Wisconsin had three of the five losses. So like Big Ten teams are favored and they win. I predicted a little bit of this. I said, listen, the Big Ten schools, those kids, there's not a lot of jobs in the Midwest

outside of Chicago. They flee to the coasts and they make really good money. And they still love their Big Ten teams. And they'll write checks. And the Big Ten has three straight national championships in football. This year they return seven first or second round quarterbacks. And they dominated this tournament. I mean, if I had to guess today, I would have Michigan against Illinois and the Natty,

although, you know, I mean, Arizona's guards are great. Tommy's great. And, you know, Dan Hurley wins in the March. But is it, is the Big Ten's resurgence and dominance? Is it just checks? Doug, is it, from my purview, it's really good coaching and checks. Yes. Yes.

And I would say there's great coaches in the Big 12. I would say that the Big 12 has been an unbelievable conference. Yeah. Kansas is a little down this year. Houston, not as good as they had been this year. But here's that, let's cut to brass tax. You and I know this. The SEC cheated their brains out for years, right, in football.

So it's a curious thing when everybody can spend money on their roster. Right. Right. So now, now let's see how good you are, right? When everybody's got dudes, because they used to, they just used, you go. And look, there's still a different caliber of athlete at times in the SEC than some of these teams. but I used when I worked at CBS I started covering more SEC and I got to go to SEC football games as well just as kind of a fan and be on the sidelines and back then like there was just a different you look at

even now you look at the big 12 they just look different the basketball expression is that guy's sneaker squeak different right and I'm not again I'm not saying that that the big 10 was high and mighty they had plenty of scandals right Minnesota had one Michigan obviously had a big one. Ohio State had one. Whatever. Illinois, you know, got caught, whatever. But the point is that generally,

yes. The SEC was seen as a cheaters league. Yeah. It just was. Now, through the churches and through the car dealers and absolutely. Yes. Brown paper bags. Yes.

All of it. Okay. Now when it's, it's not equal. And the reason that you have the 16-0 favorites is the rest of us, the little guys, we got no shot. We just do. You can win a game. You can't win two or three. You just can't. You know, I'll never forget, Colin. We were playing Ohio State last year. And I had Anthony Roy, he was leading the country and scoring, he has 30. And it was eight. And all of a sudden, we changed ball screen coverage and it's 18. I emptied my bench and it's 30. And I was just,

I'm sitting in there and I'm apoplectic. And I have this. And I have a, I have a assistant named Eric Sanders and his nickname is eighth grade and eighth grade puts his arm around me and I go dang it I shouldn't have changed that ball screen coverage I screwed up I messed this up and he's like coach they got three and a half million dollars we got 95,000 right don't beat yourself up we never had a chance you know so so the the point is that now it there's the halves and the have-nots right, but you give Michigan legal money cheating, right? You give them elite coaching. Right.

And yeah, they're better than all those SEC teams that have always had. Now, look, the SEC has had some elite coaching as well, obviously, and they've been really, really good. But I really think that's what happened in football. That's what happened in basketball, right? I mean, Kurtzignette, he's a hell of a coach, but he's made much better when he's got $30 million to spend. So it's interesting about the UNC job and the Michael Jordan comments. And that sounds, I mean, that's what I would do. If I ran UNC, I would call Michael and say, can you do a solid?

Totally makes sense to me. And this is why we brought you on the podcast today, is that that kind of insight. What's interesting about the UNC job is I said, you know, Billy Donovan, I don't know if people remember, you do. Florida wasn't just good. I mean, they had like, they were a bully. They were Yukon South. I mean, he was winning, he was winning not only divisional titles, the SEC, which used to be called like the Kentucky Championship, right?

Like he was dominating Kentucky. And then he goes to OKC. He goes to Chicago. And Chicago is not a serious organization. Reinsdorf will never sell it because it's the biggest arena. They lead the league in attendance. I have season tickets. It's a great arena.

They pack it and they're unwatchable. You never said, hey, man, you want to come watch a Bulls game. It's a three-hour drive. Nothing, nothing. It's the first time hearing of it. Well, I bought, you know, listen, I bought partial hockey, partial. We got family members here. And I go to the games, and it's great.

I'm messing with you. I know. But the truth is, it's not a serious basketball operation. And I said, I'm like, Billy's made his money. He's a competitive guy. Competitive guys don't like to lose. Like, I could see him just saying, I'm better than half these coaches I lose to. I'm going to go win two natties.

I'm going to go to Carolina. And I thought, when I was called you today, I thought, you know, there's always the sense it's the association. But what's ironic, Doug, NBA coaches are getting younger, college coaches are getting older because a lot of the recruiting is administrative. You don't have to be at tournaments. You just write checks. If you were Billy Donovan, I mean, Rinesdorf's loyal to him, would you consider UNC?

I mean, I would. The frustration that guys had, and I, you know, I don't, I used to every summer, I take my kids, I think as you know, to Maine for summer camp. And I would spend a lunchtime with Brad Stevens. And Brad's always been like, not going back, you know, not going. Like the NBA is great because it's all about basketball. Yes. Right.

You know, to worry about academics. No parents. Recruiting. Nothing. Nothing. Okay. So agents sometimes players, ego. but it's basketball.

Basket's the best coaching in the world. Anybody says otherwise literally doesn't know anything. It's incredibly coached. They're incredible players. But yeah, I mean, remember his mentor is Rick Petino. And Rick Petino has had, you know, he's the cat with nine lives. And he keeps coming back to college. Louisville has to let him go.

He goes and wins in Greece, comes back, flips Iona. and now he's got St. John's back where they need to be, right, or close to where they need to be. Yeah, I would. Like, he won two national titles. In 2000, they beat us in the elite eight. He did an amazing job at Florida. And he's tried, he's been at two, two historic, you know, like Oklahoma City has become kind of a sort of dominant team in this era, right? They won a title.

They've been to another finals. They're going to be around. And then he's in Chicago and hasn't been able to fix it. Like, why not? because it's it's not pro basketball, okay? And because it's amateur hour, right? You're dealing with quasi agents, want to be agents,

and they're still kids, but it's as close to the professional. It's really more like Europe where you're dealing a one, two-year deal. Yeah. It's North Carolina. Why not? The only reason he might not do it

is because Kentucky might come open next year and that's the one he wants. The time. of it has always been a little off, but he'd have to resign like in a week. So he's there for the portal. I can't speak to him. I don't know what he wants in his life. But generally, what I was told was his wife didn't want to do a college town anymore. Yeah. He didn't want to mess with the academics. I get it. I get it. But they, the academics like, listen, believe me, at my place, the academics matter. Second highest GPA in team history, two consecutive years. Right. We got we were,

My first year, we were on APR probation, couldn't practice more than five days in a week. It was crazy. But generally, they're taking their classes online, right? They're not great. The student and student athlete has been minimized to a very, it's not even, it's in fine, fine print and then athlete is in big print. Yeah. It's quasi-professional basketball with a lot of amateur hour. but it's North Carolina.

It's Carolina blue. It's Argyle down the side. It's pretty dope. Would I do it? Yeah. Is he going to do it? I don't know, Colin. Everybody has different motivation.

Because there's part of me that says, well, if you have $50 million in the bank and you want two national titles, you could just go retire to a beach because I think that's what you would do. Yeah. But then again, you're not as good a player as Billy Donovan was leading Providence to the final four. I mean, a guy who's 5'11, thick-legged white guy makes the NBA, you're not doing that unless you're tougher than a $2 stake and you're an incredible competitor.

And so the competitor in you says, hey, I want to go out on top. I want to go out with the championship. What if I'm the guy to bring Carolina back? So again, I don't know. I will add this one last thing. He's not in the Carolina family. Okay.

But his dad, I believe grew up on Long Island. Okay. My dad grew up on Long Island, they were all kind of saying that's Larry Brown country. Okay. And of course, Larry Brown played at North Carolina for Dick McGuire. And Dick McGuire used to bring down a New Yorker or two every year. So he's sort of, he's obviously in the Patino family, but he's sort of North Carolina family adjacent a little bit. And it wouldn't stun me if he felt sort of like Carolina family.

I don't know if he'd do it. If it was me, hell yeah, what I do? You would have got, Coach Carolina, any day. Yeah. And you have Michael Jordan calling recruits? Yes. Yeah. Yes.

So it's... I can't tell you what he's, you know? Yeah. Because when you're in purgatory where the way the bulls are, like, what do you do? Like, what are we doing here? Yeah. That's my whole take is he's such a competitive guy and they're not a serious franchise.

And I say that as somebody that loves going to the games, they, you know, nobody, we just kind of look at the Bulls and it is. It's sort of like watching, you know, Cleveland. Browns. You're like, you're not, you're not, you fire Stefanski. You have Todd Monk and like, what are you doing? I mean, Staphansky interviews for seven jobs within three days. Like, what are you doing? Well, there's a, I don't know if you curse in your pod. I apologize, you can bleep it out to do, but there's an expression that I, I'm in Oklahoma, visiting my kids right now. And, uh, um, as a profession I learned here and it's true with

the Bulls and with the Browns. They're just fiddled fucking around, right? They just are. You know, they're just they're playing games because you got to play games and you got to make money. And they affect nothing. Zero. And so if you're fiddle, do you want to fiddle fuck around at the end of your career or do you want to go and try and win a national championship? So, but again, I don't know what motivates him. And I don't know if he wants to say, I want to be the guy that gets the Bulls back. I don't know what the answer to that one is.

So I wrote down my, my NBA mock lottery draft. And I do think, AJ Devonza at BYU, probably today would go number. number one. I think one of the things I've said, like Cam Boozer is not a super athlete, but he's going to go top five. I think Caleb Wilson's ceiling is insane. He's not polished yet, but God, he has, you can just see there'll be two or three plays a game and you're like, holy, you know, is he bam out of bayou with a higher ceiling? Like, like, what is he? So the Darren Peterson thing's fascinating because, and you played against them this year, your Green Bay team played against. You're the one that called me and said, you know,

you go, I watch this guy. And it's very early in the season. It was like, I watched five possessions. I'm like, well, that's what Kobe probably looked like eight or ten years old. He looks like Kobe. I mean, it's kind of an easy comp. Now he wasn't, he got beat up, the calf, the hammies. He wasn't as athletic. He wasn't durable. The two things that worry me, one's obvious, I'll get to in a second. The first thing that worries me is he plays in a silo. A little like Kauai, first five years in the league, no assists. Has the ball a ton, no assist. He's playing in a silo. He's playing for himself. don't love guys like that. As great as Kauai is, he is a little bit like Kauai, not stylistically, but plays in a silo,

durability issues. If you're hurt in college, the rules always been bigger, stronger dudes and the pros, it's hard. But I think what really worries me is when he comes out and says, you know, this thing got into my head and I start thinking about, you know, and this is not analogous, but oh, Ben Simmons, Markell Fultz, Royce White. And listen, I feel I have sympathy for anybody that can struggle with mental health or whatever it is. But if I'm an NBA in a loaded draft where I watch Caleb Williams and I'm like, he's only 50% of the player he's going to be in three years. I see, you know, AJ DeMontah, I see, I see Wagler, the guard of Illinois.

And I'm like, is he the next SGA? Jesus, he's 6'6. Again, he's not even halfway home. What do you do with Darren Peterson? If you were a GM, could you draft him number one? well here's the you know when i used to work at cbs and the espin they talk about the eye test yeah and the problem with the eye test is it kind of depends upon the day when you see a guy so again you have to remember that we watched all the preseason stuff we watched and we were

like in love with darren peterson and then i mean we did we had no chance to stop he was so good so you know what do i and i was when i said like he's like cobi in that he can literally say like, you remember Larry Bird, those old Larry Bird living legend videos, I'm going to get the ball right here, and I'm going to drill right there. I'm going to shoot it. I'm going to make it. And then he did it. Yeah. It feels like he gets to his spots. And he plays, he's never sped up. He plays at his own pace. He's great. Yes. First thing everybody should know is, okay, that if the Utah Jazz have the number one pick, they're taking AJ Devonsa. How do I know? He went to Utah Prep, which is funded by Ryan Smith.

He went to BYU, which is funded by Ryan Smith. Ryan Smith owns the U.S. Utah Jazz. If you want to call something tamper, there's never been a person that has ever been tampered with more than AJ DeBanza to end up with the Utah Jazz, ever, ever in the history of anything. Everybody knows it. Everybody. So that's the first thing. It doesn't matter who else. Jesus Christ could be getting ready to walk on water and turn water into wine. They're drafting AJ DeBonsa. Outside of that, boy, it's hard because the Arkansas point guard. He's tremendous. Tremendous D. Acuff, Darius Accom.

He's fantastic. And by the way, he's athletic and can also catch and shoot. A lot of athletic guards are rhythm scores. He can catch and shoot. And he's also a great passer, which a lot of great scores aren't. Yeah, well, he, listen, he'll run your offense tomorrow and he'll be great at it. Would I draft him? I'd really have to know what's going on with the shutting of

down at halftime thing. Again, all my information is second and third hand. So I don't want, especially with, with medicals, I don't want to. I can tell you that, you know, we had, my point guard had cramping issues and it does mess with you mentally because you might feel one coming on. And you're like, okay, take me out. I feel one coming on here. And we tried pickle juice. The Packers gave us this medicine. They gave to NFL players. That didn't work. There is a mental component to it where your brain triggers the cramping. This is from actual experience with my leader, my team captain. So I would just have to know more about the medicals.

I do agree he's not really a creative passer. He is a score. He is a throwback classic. He's somewhere between Kobe and DeMar de Rosen. But here's the part I do like. Unbelievable competitor. Not scared of the big moment. and has a body, you know, he's got just a body like a Greek god.

So he'll assimilate to the NBA game quite well. Yeah, I would like him to pass a little bit more. But the biggest thing with him is the medicals, is he going to play every night? Yeah. And you're right. Like, I'll give you the example. Embed at Hurt in college, hurt all the time in the pros. Kyrie hurt in college, her all the time.

Zion Hurt in college, heard all the time in the pros. So, you have to trust your medical people. And you have to figure out what you need. But the answer is yes, I would, if I was, all that stuff was cleared, he's just, again, his sneakers squeak different. He moves at a different gate, a different pace, a different rhythm. And I do think that as the NBA game opens up, he's got even better spacing. And they play with great spacing at, at Kansas. But even better, obviously.

Like, it's just hard to see, how are you going to stop him? I know he's going against college kids, but he's a real college kid. Yeah. I'm personally a big fan. I think DeBanza goes one. He'll probably go two, but it's all going to be about the medicals. And then the question is, and this goes to your Kauai thing, was the dad telling him to shut it down at halftime?

Or was it him his body, right? Is the dad too involved, whereas with Kauai, it's the uncle that's apparently too involved. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. Morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen, kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me?

Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're going to wrap it up with this to Gottlieb coach at Green Bay. Left broadcasting, went to coaching first year. and he had to scramble to put a squad together. He had a great score. Score got hurt. But this year, and I followed, you know, I watched a lot of YouTube and a lot of Green Bay

basketball. It's actually women's and men's now. Both can really play. So the women are excellent. And you guys finish third in the Horizon League. And I'm going to ask you this question. Because I think somebody, somebody I know just got a really big job. And they called, I sent a congratulation text and they reached out.

And they're like, I'm a little nervous. And I said, if you're not nervous, you didn't take a big enough swing. You have to be nervous. If you're not nervous, dude, you just took a parallel job. If you're not sweating bullets your first six weeks, you didn't, you're not challenging yourself. And listen, you weren't nervous because you knew basketball, but it's coaching, and it was a program that didn't have a lot of stuff. And you've been raising money and you, maybe you were nervous. I mean, so my question is, what is the one thing if you were a young coach? and you want a coach, and you have all this experience, your dad was a coach, you're a player, you're a broadcaster, you've built a program now. If I said to you, Doug, you, it's not even, it's just give the young Doug Gottlie. You're, you've had 15, 18 months now. What today do you know

that you didn't? And you had great knowledge of college basketball. Of all my friends, you had much different level knowledge. What is the one thing you're like, man, I didn't even know that. So, so the, the, the thing in all business that people talk about is culture. But no one actually just talks about what that means, right? But it is everything. It is absolutely everything. I would love to say there's one thing.

And I'll get to what I think the biggest thing is in a second. But, you know, you're, it's not just about, you know, I always thought, okay, hire really good people. that know more than you or that cover your weaknesses and let them coach. Yeah. Trust them. Yeah. But there's a second step to that, which is they have to be able to work together and they have to be able to work in

whatever school that you're at, or whatever business, like just because you can sell hats doesn't necessarily means you can sell washers and dryers because there are some nuances to it. And I changed my staff. from year one to year two. It could not be more important. Our players were so prepared.

I was so prepared. My staff made me look like a great coach. I was ranked the 360, well, it's 300 is on there's 300 and. 65, I thought. 40 teams. Oh. Yeah, 365.

I was ranked 358 coming into the year. Okay. A 358. And honestly, the difference is my staff is unbelievable. But it's not just because they're good and they work hard and they're prepared. It's because they're connected. You know, I talk about this with my team all the time. What hurts more?

Open hand or a fist. A fist does. It's the same weapon. Only it's tight. It's cohesive. It's together. Same thing with a team. Same thing with the coaching staff.

culture is everything. And when you're, here's the biggest thing, when you're going to build a team. I can't speak to high school because high school, you don't really recruit. They just show up. But you have to find leadership. You have to find leadership. You have to find leadership. That's how you build your culture.

Who's your leader? Who holds them accountable? And then you have to hold that person the most accountable. You have to hold all of them accountable. If you don't, they think you're a phony. right if you don't have leadership you know look i have 16 guys i can play five guys that means for the most part there's going to be somewhere between six to ten parents that are pissed off every time they turn on the tv to watch their kid play right right um and and and the players feel that

culture is everything everything everything everything everything you have to build it from the top down with your staff having great culture and figure out who's going to lead your team, lean into that, trust them, push them, hold them accountable, and they'll hold everybody else accountable. The plays don't matter. They don't. Right. They really don't.

I can draw, I can draw. JJ Redick is awesome at all the pretty plays, okay? But those guys don't like each other. And ultimately, it'll end a failure. Right. You have to have toughness. Toughness is character. character is culture.

So it's a broad word that everybody says, but I can tell you that if you don't have culture, doesn't matter because things are going to get hard, they're going to feel unfair, and they'll either crumble or they'll get stronger and find a way to overcome it. That's what Yukon did tonight. They have great culture.

Alex Caraband has great character. He's been there forever. He would not let them look. Yes, he could have left two years ago in the one national championship, but he didn't and he stayed and I don't have a great year. It doesn't matter. Hit big shots, made big plays. They have great culture, great character, recruit the person and the player will follow. Yeah, I've said with JJ Reddick, they actually golf now. The Lakers, they go on the road

and they golf as a team. And I actually thought that was one of the smartest things he's done this year is take, I mean, you've got old LeBron, you've got ascending Austin, you've got, like Marcus Smart's your only true defender. Like it's a weird lob-sided roster. And JJ, and I bet you JJ and LeBron probably sat down with this and just said, we got to make this a collection synthesize it. We got to figure. And now they post pictures all the time.

They're golfing. And it looks like fun, but I'm like, no, there's a real. There's a message to that. There's a real. No, they're definitely trying to build it. And, you know, everybody's got a different way. I just, I don't think they, I still think you watch their body language at times and you're like,

yeah, I don't, I don't, you and I both know once they get to the playoffs, it's so physical, it's so defense-oriented. Now, that changes. If they change the way they officiate it and they let it be offensive dominated the way the regular season is, well, they got a great shot. Yeah. But I haven't seen that. And you and I haven't seen that in our lifetime in the playoffs.

The playoffs are a slug pass. The playoffs are about toughness and cohesion. and ultimately shot making comes after that. And I don't think they have it. But you asked what matters. Culture, character matters more than anything, you know? And it's, you know, I, I, you want to know, the only time a cop has called me in my entire time.

And I've been 22 months on the job. Yeah. I had a kid. He's a freshman. And there was a snowstorm. And we're driving back from a big road win. I think this was that. It might have been a first of January.

Coach, can you come to the office? What's going on? Well, I pulled over so-and-so for doing donuts in the parking lot. I said, why are you calling me? So I was just doing donuts in the parking lot with my son like 10 minutes ago. So empty parking lot, school's out of session, kid decided to do some donuts with a bunch of his teammates in the car, and that's the biggest problem we had.

So we weren't the most talented. And again, I understand there's a talent component when you get to the highest level. Some of the things you got to swallow and swallow hard. But if you don't have, if you don't recruit good character, if you don't recruit good people, you don't have good people surrounding you, if you don't have a tight knick, it doesn't matter. You're not going to win. You got no shot.

Don't even suit up. And don't yell and don't scream and don't cuss because it's on you as the coach because you recruited them. Whether it's your assistant coaches, you offer them the job. It's your players. You recruit them. You offered them money. it's on you. Find the best people, and you'll figure out a way to win more games than you lose.

Awesome. You'll spend time with your kids. I'm going to go eat dinner, buddy. Shoot your shot, get paid double only on Hard Rock Bet. Hard Rock Bet is Florida's only legal way to bet the NBA, teams, players, points, and more. He shoots, he scores. And when you sign up for Hard Rock Bet, your bets paid double winnings. Don't just count the basket. Count it twice. He's on fire now. Yes, new customers get paid double on your first 10 bets. Try hard rock bet today Max bet of $50 per bet

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And I'm Nick and guess what We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas We invented a podcast Well we didn't invent it We just contributed to it We're the first people to do podcasts We get to ask other people questions

Because we're sick and tired To be and ask questions Well sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless, and at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches,

the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Gentil win. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay. Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Hart podcast. Guaranteed Human.