The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Urban's Indiscretions, Big Ben Fading, Rookie QB Evals with Marc Trestman

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

Colin talks about the chaos surrounding Urban Meyer and why his poor choices are a real problem for the Jaguars (3:00). He also compares Big Ben's diminishing returns to an economic trend (10:00). Then, former Bears Head Coach and longtime NFL OC Marc Trestman and Colin evaluate all the rookie QBs so far this season. They discuss why the reaction to Zach Wilson's first win was overblown (13:00), why Mac Jones is unlike many other rookie QBs (23:00), if Justin Fields should be the Bears starter (27:00), what the Jaguars initially got wrong with Trevor Lawrence (31:00), if there's a gap between Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes (40:00), and the challenge of developing reckless QB's (52:00).Subscribe to the Colin Cowherd Podcast and follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter and YouTube for the latest content and updates. Also check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Colin Cowherd podcast brought to you by Fandul. It's never been easier to play fantasy on Fanduel, whether you love basketball, golf, soccer, or any fantasy sport. There is a contest for every fan. Fan duel, more ways to win. Hi, everybody and welcome in to the Wednesday morning podcast. We're going to bring on a really interesting guy, Mark Tressman. He's been nicknamed the quarterback whisperer. He started as a quarterback coach for Howard Schnellenberger, the Miami Hurricanes, years ago, two-time CFL coach of the year. He was a coordinator for the Niners, Browns, Cardinals, Ravens, Raiders during their last Super Bowl run when Rich Gannon won MVP. And we're going to go through all the quarterbacks and what the world in which he views them. Now, the number one story right

now is Urban Meyer, who is reeling with the Jacksonville Jaguars. So I was watching an old piece of tape on the late comedian Don Rickles about a month ago. And Rickles was on a show with Bob Costas called Later with Bob Costas, some of his best work. And Rickles was a very legendarily acerbic comedian. And he told Bob that even during bad sets, never let the audience. know that it's a bad night. You don't want to lose leverage with the audience and show weakness.

That's when hecklers take over the night. And that's why what Urban Meyer did and the optics right now are so bad. Players now have leverage over Urban Meyer. You can lose games. You cannot lose the locker room. And I talked to Mike Silver, long time NFL reporter today. And I said, 50-50 locker room. Where's it at?

And he told me he thought Urban had lost at least half the locker room. Didn't fly home with a team, which is very rare. Don't believe any media person who defends that. It's very rare, especially after a loss, a close loss. You want to fly back and be with the guys. Then when this story surfaced, Urban canceled a team meeting, met with units individually. He didn't want to meet with all the players at once. Many players thought he was not honest in acknowledging.

who the woman was, and I don't care about his personal life. But I hear this a lot from, you know, Buckeye fans and Urban Meyer fans. And I know Urban and I like him. But people say, it's a common thing. Guys do. They flirt after a couple cocktails. Listen, if you work at Home Depot or Applebee's, yeah, and nobody sees it. This is Urban Meyer, a $10 million year coach.

And now the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars, Shod Khan, is embarrassed and humiliated because he took a huge risk on hiring Urban Meyer. He got a lot of pushback that Mr. College football could not handle the NFL and was not equipped to coach at the NFL level. He had real doubters. And now, Shod Khan, after a series of events, looks like he whiffed. And it's not one event. There was the comment, it's like playing Alabama every week.

NFL coaches rolled their eyes at that. It's trying to hire the trainer from Iowa who had all sorts of. of baggage. Terrible look. It is saying he would cut players if they didn't get the vaccine. The NFL PA had to step in. That was an embarrassing look. Right now, it looks like he just doesn't understand the way the NFL works. And again, this lands directly on the doorstep of the billionaire owner of the Jags who took a big risk hiring him. There's the Tebow situation. That looks silly. Tebow was the least capable tight end on a team with bad tight ends. All of this puts the owner's judgment in doubt.

So Urban's in some trouble here. And, you know, let's be honest about this. It's just bad optics. And let me explain that. There was an article in the New York Times a while back about the word optics. And it became a buzzword. Everybody describes things now, how things look to the general public. Now, before the 80s, you never heard the term.

optics. Then it started to become a term political strategists used to discuss moments that don't really have clear consequences except for the fact they just look bad or they look good. Howard Dean famously Iowa caucus 2004 yelled a speech after losing a lot of people said bad optics, weird. Suddenly, he was out of the picture. He didn't do really anything wrong. It just looked really strange. And with social media now, everything is optics. Everyone can take a nine second video and put it out there. People don't care about context. It's just bad optics.

It's not illegal, right? But NFL owners don't care about illegal. There's an argument to be made. I was told by a source I trust that if the Titans humiliated the Jags this weekend and they can't reel this locker room back in. And again, goes back. to the Don Rickles story. You don't want to show weakness to a group of 55 alpha males.

Urban is a guy who's really hard on players. He's really tough. And if they can sense weakness, some of these players will split off. Fissures are created and Urban's in big trouble. So they are paying you $10 million a year to stay at home, live for football, hang out with your family, and not hang out at bars. That's why you make $10 million a year. Drink at home, hang out with family, and every split second you have.

And every second beyond that, you're at the team facility. I always said my question with Urban Meyer was never the football. I've watched the Jags play three of their four games, two of them closely. They've gotten better. Every game. The football part, I don't worry about. Does he realize, this is not college football, you can't bulldoze your way through decisions? You have an owner, you have NFL press, national media, you have alpha males, you have millionaires.

It's not college football. You can't bulldoze your way through the truth. You're going to get called out. And Urban Meyer right now is. So I talk about the word optics. I want to touch on something else. There's another word or term I read about recently called shrinkflation. And this has to do with the current plight of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

So your favorite products at a grocery store are probably getting a little smaller. The cereal box, the peanut butter jar, the ice cream pint. The price is remaining the same or even going up. They call that shrinkflation. Sometimes the difference is so small that you, the consumer, only notice it if you put the two products side by side and you see it. They charge you more, you get less. There's also something called shrinkflation in sports, I believe. The athletes who give you less and less each year, but they're not.

The difference is so subtle that you might only notice if you compare film between now and five years ago. That's Ben Rothlessburg. So the giants saw it with Eli Manning, and they drafted Daniel Jones. The Packers saw it with Aaron Rogers. Three straight years, gradual decline. They drafted Jordan Love. Well, there was clear, clear shrinkflation from Ben Rothersberger. And it's the Steelers' job to watch for these.

very slight gradual declines so you can draft the successor of valuable players at key positions. This falls all on the Steelers. The Packers and the Giants notice those gradual declines. Pittsburgh either didn't or did and would not acknowledge them. There are two ways to succeed in the NFL. Pick up players at the right time and move off them at the right time. And so just like your products at a grocery store, you're paid as an NFL executive to see very slight gradual declines in key players. And this is where the Packers and the Giants have gotten it right.

Now, we don't know if Jordan Love can play. I do think Daniel Jones, especially this last week against the Saints, I do think he can play. They've got issues. I don't think he's the biggest issue. Maybe a lower ceiling than a Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert. but I think Daniel Jones is not the primary issue. Offensive line is. But when people push back on Big Ben,

the best NFL general managers find starters and pro bowlers in the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth round. And those same general managers move off star players when they get to years 9, 10, 11, 12. So the Steelers have nobody to blame but themselves and similarly, either does Urban Meyer.

So let's bring in Mark Trussman, who started as a quarterback coach for not only Howard Snellenberger, but Jimmy Johnson at Miami, worked with Bernie Cozhar and Vinny Testa Verdi. As I noted earlier, he was the offensive coordinator for a handful of NFL teams, including Rich Gannon and the Raiders during their Super Bowl run, and Gannon was the MVP, two years coaching the Chicago Bears, two-time CFL coach of the year, a three-time Grey Cup champ. And people in the sport have great acknowledgment.

of what Mark Trussman has done through the years in building the confidence of young quarterbacks. As we've talked about on this podcast many times, it is so hard to be a quarterback in the NFL. You know, there is a reason why many of the same quarterbacks over the last 15 years have ended up in the conference championships. This is yeoman work. It is intellectually, physically, emotionally, emotionally draining. and Mark is joining us. So Mark, I'm going to run through the quarterbacks. I'm going to state, my audience knows this, my concerns, and then I'm just going to let you go on each of them. And I want to start with Zach Wilson. And my initial interpretation of Zach was a little small,

sometimes played the position, a little bit of a show off, excellent arm, good movement. But I do worry about at times, this is a strange word to use, but his humility playing the position, that football, you are carrying a $3 to $4 billion franchise. Sometimes he was a little loose, in my opinion. And the great ones, the Russell Wilson's, the Brady's, the Aaron Rogers, we're seeing this with Justin Herbert. The great ones are not loose with the football. They understand the value of every possession. So my criticism is he's a little loose. Let's start with your reaction to that.

what you see when you see the jet, Zach Wilson. Oh, and I can leave this show right now because you've hit on a lot of the, lot of the, but, you know, the one thing I'll say about all to be free, before I get on, on Zach, and I'll jump right to him. I think what's where quarter, the reason why quarterbacks have shown a little bit of light the last week or so is the play callers have actually gotten better. And you're right. You're talking about the most complex, most dynamic, most amazing position in all of sports. So you hit it. right and very few can do it. That's why they get paid so much. So let me let me let me go to

Zach first. Although Zach won this game, he was the winning quarterback in the last game, I certainly don't think he's ready to be annoyeded. I do respect from the last four weeks his toughness and his resiliency. And he has shown some big playability. But you're exactly right. Over the time, he's shown the ability not to manage games very, very good. well and understanding of situational football. He's all, he's, in all four games, he looked to, to make the home run and to get the home run first. Even in this last game, he threw up a couple 50, 50 balls that could have gone either way,

that got him a lot of yards. Reckless with the football over the first three weeks for sure, his dropback fundamentals are extremely sloppy and inconsistency over-dropped. The first two weeks, he was overdropping his protection. at 10 and a half to 12 yards. And he really didn't show the athleticism that I expected to see. I didn't look at him in college, but I had heard about athleticism. And I would just call it sufficient kind of really in the Mac Jones,

maybe slightly better than Mac Jones, but just sufficient escapeability, but not being very accurate throwing on the run consistently. some of the things that hurt him over the first few weeks, his protection was horrendous. He took a bunch of hits, which goes to his resiliency and his toughness, but the protection was loose inside and he was taking a lot of hits. Secondly, his receiver's technique, I'm not going to even go to their ability. Their depths, their techniques had gotten to improve. and the five interceptions that he'd thrown up to last week

were a result of all of those things, but the things he can control, the looseness with the ball, recklessly throwing and not understanding the importance of being efficient. The number one job of a quarterback, I missed everything. And I learned this from Steve Young

is to protect the football. Right. And you protect it on the snap, on the way to the back, and the confines in the pocket with location to throw, and exiting the pocket. And he just did not do a very good job in those areas. So frankly, although they won, inconsistent drops, you know, one of the things that hurts

his accuracy, the best quarterbacks, the tip of the ball is in the V of the neck when they get to the top of the drop because it minimizes inaccurate throws. So if you look at all the grates, you know, they all have the tip of the ball because the arm motion is is minimized and there's there's less time for inaccuracy he forced the ball in the movement game instead of taking the flat i mean over the last four weeks michael lefleur's giving him some candy store completions just kick the ball in the flat you know and get yourself a completion and he's forcing the ball down the field in the movements i graded him this week of the first 10 throws i gave him one plus but on the other side of it he has shown and he'll tease us as you

well know with the great three, make some excellent throws and overcame a lot of hits. He had a chance to throw a corner ball for a touchdown in the red zone last week and the greats would have back-shouldered that throw because the defender was playing the

quarterback underneath. He would have stopped him with the throw and just really kind of hoped it, hoped it, you know, in there. So all that being said, and I know I'm riffing on here and I apologize for that, but, you know, it's exciting to talk about quarterbacks. There is a light at the tunnel, but there's not enough tape to annoy him or tell you that he's the guy right now

because there's so much inconsistency. He's got to go back. You know, I've heard, well, he watches a lot of Aaron Rogers tape. Well, he's not Aaron Rogers. And if he continues to be, you know, loses humility with that ball in his hand, he's going to hurt his football team. So he's got to listen to his coach is number one. He's got to take the candy store completions. He's got to respect the ball. You know, and he's like with a lot of these young quarterbacks early on,

the coaches thought they needed this quarterback to win the game. Right now, we need Zach Wilson not to lose the game. Now, other quarterbacks are in a better position to do that because they have better personnel around them. But Zach's got to lighten it up a little bit and lighten up a little bit and just start becoming more efficient. And then we'll see if he's got any it factor because it does. there is a light that says this kid does have some it-fed for, but he needs to be more disciplined.

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I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

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to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

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I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And just like in football betting, he's a very competent heavyweight with a punch and a chin. So I'm taking Wilder in a decision, unanimous decision, to meet Tyson Fury. With Fandul in your corner, always get exclusive odds boosts, great promotions, and so much more.

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The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. And we're live here outside the Perez family home just waiting for the... And there they go. Almost on time this morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong. with a double-armed kid carry.

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Visit NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. Brought to you by Nitzha and the Ad Council. Let's transition to Mack Jones, who is very accurate. You could see him getting the Patriots in and out of plays. You know, Nick Saban's got an NFL background as well. He and Belichick coached together in Cleveland, then his job in Miami. So, and he has hired NFL level coordinator. So Max running a pro system largely.

I thought he was very efficient. I don't see him with much escapeability. I think he's fairly low ceiling. His arm's okay. Certainly, in your words, sufficient. I guess my concern with him is New England has not shown an ability or an affinity to over the last four to five years. draft really high-end skill players. O-line, D-line, linebackers, secondary.

They've been very good at that. It is a mostly, I would say, average set of tight-end and receiving talent. And I believe that Mack needs a certain level of player to elevate him in that space. So I thought his game was very efficient. what I worry about Mac Jones coach is that because his ceiling's lower, he will realize his ceiling more quickly than a Josh Allen or a Kyler. He may realize it by week 13, but it could fool people into believing there's another level.

And I'm just not sure there is with him. Colin, it would be hard for me to disagree. I mean, Mac Jones is exactly who they thought he would be. Right. He's playing exactly the way. Bill Belichick and Josh McDaniel knew he would. He's got tremendous ability to control the line of scrimmage, command the line of scrimmage prior to the snap.

He's got tremendous elite functional intelligence. He plays with a quiet mind. His footwork is so disciplined as a, you know, if you compare it right now to Zat Wilson, his drops under the gun in the center. His ball handling is excellent. He's got country played in a white, with white football the other night, it really did seem to bother him.

And Josh did a good job of calling plays accordingly. He plays within himself. He reads through his progressions. He kicks out flare controls. He takes care of the football. I mean, even the interception he threw really wasn't his fault the other day. He's extremely accurate. And he's exactly the guy they showed on tape.

And in my mind, on Monday night, there's really nothing that you see, that you didn't see at Alabama. And now, Josh McDaniels trusts him with the ball. He's not afraid to throw the ball on first, second, or third down any time he's gun. Because he trusts him to protect it. And that's really, that's really something that a coordinator, man, when you can call anything and know he's, he's going to protect the coordinator's call by making sure that ball is protected. But I think the Patriots, here's the two things I think to close out of this. The Patriots found a quarterback who plays the. position the way the Patriots want him to play. He plays it just like, now, but I'm not saying,

please, he's not Tom Brady and it's arguable he never will be, but he plays the game. See, the question I have, will he match up against Josh Allen for the next 10 years? Because that's the issue. And the only way Bill Belichick can do that is he's got to play continuity football. And then we're going to find out over the weeks to come. And this is what we don't know yet because Matt Jones won so many games and not a lot of close games is does he have the it factor to win

the game in the fourth quarter and we won't know that for a while as they build a team around him but if you're a coordinator calling Josh McDaniels know exactly what they were getting and what they're getting is exactly what they saw on tape and not every

coach can say that about his rookie quarterback let's pivot now to Justin Fields Ohio State doesn't have this great lineage in history of putting guys in the NFL at quarterback. Some of that is because the Buckeyes generally have much better personnel than the rest of their conference. You know, you can run a drag route, give it to Paris Campbell. He's off to the races running past Purdue. And the stats for the quarterback are, you know, through the roof.

There's a lot to like about Justin Fields. In 2021, he moves very well. He certainly has a capable – I'm not sure if it's a plus arm, but he's a capable player. what I am noticing, he's holding the ball too long. I mean, he's probably having difficulty reading these NFL defenses. That's what it feels like to me. My interpretation is he's just holding the ball too long. There's a little confusion.

What do you see? What do you like? What are you noticing? So, you know, the first couple of games he played, it was a disaster. It was a disaster because he got the heck beat out of him. You know, he really didn't get a chance. I don't remember who it was. I think it was a previous week, even to my recollection.

But let me just tell you where I think he is. 18 passes, a new play caller last week. I was someone impressed with him. And I wasn't impressed with him as a college player, quite frankly. I just got concerned about his ability to translate to the NFL. And there's some coaches who think absolutely opposite. That's the price we pay when we decide to put our, you know, sign off on a quarterback. But I was somewhat impressed with him on Sunday. But the play selection by Bill Azer was really good. They ran the the football. They tried to do what I think most coordinators should do with first year quarterbacks is run the ball, get him under center a little bit more, move him and play action

him with protection. So he doesn't have to worry about hots, right? So I thought the play selection over, he only threw four passes in the first quarter and two were explosive throws. I mean, big time, you know, NFL explosive throws and they were accurate. He's got tremendous quickness. you know, the only two runs he had were victory plays, taking a knee. So we didn't even see his explosiveness to make plays and extend plays, which we know he has. I saw a little more upside in him than I've seen in Zach over four weeks in those 18 passes. There's just more there. I thought he managed the line of scrimmage well.

He was decisive. Again, he got some candy store completions, too, by Bill Laser to get let him. But he also, Bill Laser took some shots. And he made some plays with his arm up the edge and down the middle. But here's the downside is he isn't protection conscious yet. There's free rushers coming at him. Now you can help him. You don't have the five and six man protect.

You can seven man protect. And, you know, seven and eight man protection is not a panacea to get protection. But it helps eliminate hots and free rushers to the quarterback and be more concerned. which what's going on in the third level with with a with the pattern so I think there's a little light on Justin Field I want to see a little bit more and I will say this Juan Castillo has done a much better job with the protection over the last two weeks because they were flawed a couple of weeks ago and he had a chance a little more like Trevor has had and even Zach had this week

Zach had a chance to complete some throwing motions this week and was able to you know, confine themselves to more completion, some more yards. He was still a little bit too loose with the ball. And back to Justin, there's some light there for him. Well, it's going to be interesting to see, there's no doubt he should play in my mind. You draft these guys this high to play, and it's a coach's job to put him in a position to have some success and get him ready to win championships down the road. So that's where I see Jess, a little more and more light than you would have seen a couple

weeks ago where he really didn't have a chance to show what you could do. Yeah. Okay, we go to Trevor Lawrence. He's made a couple of throws that vindicate his number one pick. He's a big strapping mobile kid. They're running him more than I would prefer. Urban Meyer got a lot of heat for drafting Travis A.T.N. But I think what Urban was trying to do is get a two running back system, which, by the way, you can see it with the Cowboy Zeke and Tony Palmer, two running backs. Dalvin Cook, I love him, but he's hurt a lot. Christian McCaffrey, I love him. He's hurt a lot.

So I see what Urban did. He drafted a blocking tight end from Ohio State. He wanted Travis A.T.N. and Robinson. And he wanted to limit Trevor Lawrence to 30 throws, not 40. He wanted this to be very much a power offense. It looked like to me. And then Travis A.T.N. gets hurt.

And now everybody questions the judgment and the draft pick. But he's made a couple of really special throws. I think he's a remarkable talent. when you watch him, is his protection good? Does he have much to work with? Do you like the scheming with him? Yeah. I think you're on it again.

I think in the first two weeks, it was really clear that Darryl Bevel, you know, and Brian Schott, who I respect as really good play callers and coaches. I mean, he's got two of the best guys. They were calling plays as if he was, you know, Joe Namath. I mean, it's just as if they had, they couldn't win without him. And they put them in some real precarious.

They were just asking much. And I think you see, you know, chronologically, how that has changed over the last couple weeks. Because in the first few weeks, very poor decisions that, I mean, they were Zach Wilson like, you know, trying to get the home runs at five early interceptions. Most, more of his interceptions were poor actually than Zach's were to some degree. During that time, he was careless with the ball. He was forcing his interception is reckless. I mean, it's a repeat from Zach Wilson in the first two or three weeks. But on Thursday, just like you said, you know, now you started to see the guy that they drafted.

He got, they got the ball out of his hands quickly. You know, one of the things I'm seeing coordinators do more this week, you know, just because Kurt Cousins can run all these movements to the left and Mayfield. Yeah. Not everybody can, you know. and, you know, they stopped calling a lot of these movements to the left. That's putting one arm behind a quarterback's back. Not everybody can do it, especially early on.

They started calling more movements to the right, which made it easier to deliver the ball. But the O-line did a really good job this week against the Bengals, giving him some protection and keeping him clean. And he played with a quiet mind. I mean, I love this guy. This guy's going to be a great player. He's got it always, but he's got to improve his footwork.

And there's something I see, and we're going to talk about, I think we're going to talk about Justin Herbert in a minute, is when you're 6-6, you have to customize your drops because you're long-legged. And if you take too big a footwork, you're going to be late with throws. Right. Justin Herbert is elite, and he is textbooked at doing it right. And Zach is way too long, and he's not as tall, but he's way too long and very inconsistent with his drops. Justin is very quick with his job. Mac is his textbook. Mac Jones is textbook, but he's got to work and really organizes drops to fit route depths and route structure.

And what I found with a shotgun, every quarterback's a little bit different, and they have to have a language of drops, which customizes the drops to the type of throws that they're making. and you see a lot of the young guys, they're late with the quick game because their first step is so big. And the ball isn't out when it should be. And the receivers are waiting on the ball. He also knew just kind of a couple last couple things. Like you said, in the third quarter, his arm tail under pressure, you know, that throw you're talking about, he had a guy right in his face. Yeah. He stood in there and finished the throw and took a shot, right?

he could exponentially grow like Herbert has in his second year. Herbert had a little more talent around him in his first year, I think, than Justin, that Trevor does. But he could exponentially grow over the next couple years like Josh Allen and Brian Daible and his staff is done with Josh Allen. So in summary there, tremendous upside, great poise. And he can run. There's no doubt about it. but he doesn't run like some of the runners do. You know, he's got to be able to protect it.

And he's such a big man that, you know, they got to protect their investment. There's a time to utilize the ride and decide, so to speak, or the RPO keeps, you know, in crunch time. But I think they got to be careful with a guy with that big a body. Finally, of the young guys, the rookies Davis Mills, the Houston Texans, played at Stanford, was a fairly coveted recruit, didn't get a ton of work. Anything jump out at you.

Promising, what do you see? Yeah. Of all the college quarterbacks that we were talking about today, Davis Mills is the only one I looked at. And I thought he was drafted right around the right time. I think that he showed, you know, the ability to run a pro offense and do it in a leadership role, toughness, change ball speeds, everything.

But the other day was, a complete disaster. I mean, he had a chance to throw a touchdown pass and fourth and three on a roll pass and should have made the throw. That's just a gimmie for an NFL quarterback. He was laid on a boot. The plaction pass was a poor route, but the corner was playing inside and it was ill-advised throw. And then the second pick was an overthrow. So, and it was wet weather and it was it was Leslie Frazier's defense. And it was a lot of bad stuff and it didn't start well. So I don't think we should read a lot into Davis Mills. The week before, you know, on national TV, they were talking about us poised and playing

under control. And that's more the guy that I saw in college. So, you know, I mean, you know, everybody, you know, we want to see Deshaun Watson playing for the Texans and everything to be rolling there, you know, with David Cully. But I'm not willing to close the door on Davis Mills after this game, but it was a entirely poor performance. and he didn't give the organization idea that he was he was ready to play full-time. So I want to move to a topic, and I've said this, that, you know, I work in an industry where opinions, if they vary from kind of your usual opinions, they're viewed as hot takes.

And Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes now play both in the AFC West. Herbert's a bigger athlete. he was a better college winning quarterback. Herbert is a 4-2 biology major and, in fact, was a tutor with other students. So we know he's a really bright guy. He has very little, if any, injury history. Big, strong, moves well, huge arm. And he has a certain humility he plays with that he understands the value of the football.

He has now had six, three touchdown, zero. interception games in 19 starts. The other thing is that he did not inherit Travis Kelsey or Andy Reed or Tyreek Hill or Sammy Watkins. He inherited a fairly pedestrian offense and a terrible offensive line and actually had remarkable numbers. I am not here today to say that Justin Herbert is better than Patrick Mahomes. but the gap to me, Mark, does not appear to be huge.

I think Herbert, when you consider the circumstances that he inherited, it is fairly remarkable the level of production so far. And just your thoughts on those two and what you see with Herbert. Yeah, I mean, you bring up some great points. You know, let's just go back and start with Mahomes because he's such a unique player. I mean, he is. He's the bovaney of the NFL. He's got the.

ability to create, make plays with awkward throws, extend plays. And what I think is important to note here, he's not, and he cannot be an easy guy to coach if you're into discipline and structure like Mike Kafka is and Eric Bienabee. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep,

that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey, from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us

on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah,

you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the, IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. American Soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip.

I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. You're going to look at stats and numbers. burst. He has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team.

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. And Andy Reid is. But there's a nuance to coaching Mahomes and these guys figured it out. They don't corral him with the discipline that Herbert plays with because he's got the ability to get the job done with an uncanny ability to protect the football. I mean, he's been responsible. I've looked at all his interceptions. I think there's been four the whole season, but only really two have been on him. But through his, what is it, three or four years now,

an uncanny ability to protect the football. And I just think there's a nuance to how he's being coached to allow him to be the creative player and dynamic player. It's really impressive to me because it's not easy when you want structure, discipline drops and things like that. And it doesn't kind of look the way you think it should look to be able to coach him and let him play as freely as they do. So I just give them so much credit.

It's not as easy as it looks from a coaching perspective. Justin Herbert is as elite as it gets. I mean, he is the guy. Everybody wants to, he is the dream quarterback to coach. Cool, customer poised. He does everything right in the pocket. I've always felt you could grade a quarterback from the waist to the toes. And you know, you would know exactly what's coming down.

He is a beauty to watch. I mean, it is just, it's just the highest level of playing the position that I don't know that we've seen in a long time. It's such a young age. I spoke to Joe Lombardi this morning as coordinator. You know, Joe spent, you know, he was over a decade with Sean as a quarterback coach in New Orleans. And I watched the tape. And it was breathtaking, breathtaking, Colin, to watch the tape. and I texted Joe and he texted me back.

I said, what a, you've done such a great job with him. And you know what Joe did? This is just a digression. All he could do was give credit to the quarterback coach Shane Day. He didn't give himself one bit of credit. But yet he's calling those plays and it's the New Orleans offense. It's simple. It's concise.

It's clean. And it makes it really easy on the quarterback. And the offensive line, I'm not familiar. with what they've done personnel-wise. Justin took a couple of hits last night like everybody does, but that pocket was clean early. And when the pockets clean early, quarterbacks can succeed.

If they get hit early, there's a residual effect. He's accurate in the pocket. He plays with a quiet mind. As you said, explosive arm strength. And he doesn't have, you know, he's got a unique kind of athleticism. He can move in the pocket, find the quiet area. He really did have.

have to extend a play or run last night. But he's not, he's certainly not Kyler or Lamar. He's not even Mayfield or Tanny Hill or Josh Allen or Jaylor or Jalen Hertz or Russell. He doesn't have that kind of athleticism. But I got to tell you, textbook wise, he's as good as any of them. And it's really, he has mastered the pocket with footwork. I mean, Bill Walsh would be smiling in his grave right now because that's what it looked like years ago. I mean, it's changed and that's okay, but that's what it looked like. And it's just a pleasure to watch. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to tell you that 1-800flowers.com is your ultimate birthday gifting destination. 1-800 flowers has thoughtful and artfully created

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through this fascinating world. Find a forest near you and start exploring at Discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and the ad council. Two final questions. John Gruden. I like John.

I think he's important for the league. He's iconic. He's outspoken. I like smart offensive coaches. They have been, to me, the surprise in the league. Gus Bradley has elevated their defense. and their pass rush specifically. When you watch the schemes of the Raiders and Gruden,

my concern, Mark, was always not his passion or his lack of aptitude. It was leaving the NFL for 10 years is like leaving Silicon Valley. It's so fluid and ever-changing. Would he be outdated? I mean, it's 10 years out of the NFL. It doesn't even look the same on television. I mean, good God, 10 years ago, we huddled. So what are you seeing with the Raiders like or don't like?

Yeah, you know, I can only say I've known Jeff for 25 years and we were both coordinators. He was in Philadelphia and I was in San Francisco and we used to talk a lot in the off-season at the Combine and exchange ideas. You know, he was out for 10 years, but he watched every bit of tape that and more probably than any coach. And he's got coaches on his staff that have been in the league a long time. You know, I think he's done some great.

with Derek Carr. I mean, I think that, you know, offensively, you know, Derek Carr is, and I didn't see his side of the ball last night. I didn't watch that. I just watched Justin this morning. And I didn't, I didn't stay for the game last night. But I think he's done a great job with Derek Carr. And I think they've shown some explosiveness. Gus Bradley, you know, I think is a, is a, just brings great added value because John is going to focus on offense. And he can leave it to Gus and Gus will get it done. So it's only four weeks. They're three and one now. Is that right? And I just think I think there's more coming, but I don't think John is outdated as a coach. I think he understands that Generation Z, you know, Generation Z isn't really Generation Z. They're Generation Y, WHY.

And I think John can get up in front of a room and explain to his team why they're doing what they're doing. Has there been a quarterback that we haven't discussed or perhaps we have, but I doubt it, because I'm going to ask you, is there a quarterback you've seen so far that has jumped out to you specifically? You know, Aaron Rogers throws the best back shoulder throw in the league, and he's been doing it for years. We also know Russ and Wilson. Kyler Murray, by the way, is, I think he's taking steps. you could probably break that down. But is there a quarterback, an individual that you look at and has really jumped out to you?

Yeah, the wild factor for me is Kyler Murray. I mean, they've done, they're running a very simple offense. He is a really good dropback pastor. He's got great feet. He is a pastor. He's not a flinger. There's a couple guys that are flingersers. You know, this guy, that ball is tight.

He's accurate. He's fun to watch. You know, they play. I would say, their offense has jumped out on me. They might play faster or as fast as any team in the league. In my opinion, they got two running backs. They're physical.

I thought, you know, the game they played the other day was team and culture defining. And I came out earlier in the year and said in the third year with Cliff and Kyler, they had to make a move. They are making a move. And Kyler Murray to me, he's the one quarterback. of the younger generation that I think is making kind of, you know, Josh Allen kind of move in what I think is his third year. Yeah, you know, I said this. He and Russell Wilson, former baseball players, have two things in common. One, they're both excellent sliding to avoid hits. They've, you know, they're baseball players.

Lamar Jackson still hasn't figured it out. Secondly, they both have a motion. They throw a beautiful ball, sort of a tear drop ball on deep throws. And I don't think it's a coincidence, Mark. I think their baseball background probably has something to do with both assets. Yeah, in the home's the same way. I mean, there's, I just

love Washington Kyler because they build some structure around him. But when he extends plays, I think they're running a they've taken three years. I think the play calling is excellent. They really

focus on the running game with the two running, I think it's Edmunds and Connor. You know, they're focusing on the run game. I mean, that was a really good, that was last year's number one defense. They cut up, you know, on Sunday. And they just play so fast, and they play confident. And Murray is playing explosively outside the pocket, which you'd expect, but he is very, very good in the pocket in terms of drops, freeze, progressions, kicking the ball a lot awkward throws. He's a joy to watch. Mark, this was a real pleasure for me. You have such great passion for what you do. And I've always said I was a lousy high school quarterback, but I love the game so much. I love watching it. I sit on Sundays and Monday nights and just take notes,

and I kind of nerd out. And I just love this. This was 30 minutes of me getting smarter. And I love your strong opinions on this stuff. You have a great passion for it. And I don't know where you'll land or if you want to land anywhere, but this was a real pleasure for me. Yeah, I think I feel the same way you do, Colin, about it. You know, when you stand behind a quarterback in practice and you watch him throw, you go, how the hell did he do that? It's just amidst all the chaos of what goes on in his face,

how he can find a guy on the right mammary gland, you know, from 40 yards through everything that he has to look at. It's an amazing game. and there is nothing, nothing like being in a quarterback room during the week prior to a game. And I think you've given your audience a little bit of an idea through your words and your fashion, how important that is. By the way, Carson Wentz and Sam Darnold have a style, a DNA that is sort of reckless. The two things I've always questioned whether you can coach a player out of is, A, indifference. If they don't love the game, they don't love the game.

And be reckless. You know, if you had brothers roughhousing from the time you were four to 14, it's hard to make you a finesse player. When I watch Wince and Darnold, I think Matt Ruhl's doing a good job with Sam to take some of that reckless out. He has designed plays. They are schemed open. These are easier throws for Sam. But in your years of watching quarterbacks,

can you coach reckless out of a quarterback? You know, it takes work. And, you know, you can do, I think, I think transformational, you know, you can transform a quarterback. You can. The tape doesn't lie. You know, this is, you know, when you start showing tape of Aaron Rogers or Peyton Manning or Drew Breeze, you know, you can, that the tape doesn't lie.

The visual part of it can knock some sense into a guy, you know, pretty quickly. but you got to get him early. You know, I worry about Zach last week because he thinks he can do next week what he did this week. And if he gets a chance to set in the pocket and his feet are right and complete a throwing motion, he can do it.

But if he starts throwing that ball up and I call him hope throws, you know, they may not result the same way they did last week. And there were a couple, excellent, excellent throws, but there were a couple that he got away with, that he didn't get away with the prior three weeks and he probably won't in the next two. So I'm hoping that he'll come around because the coaches are giving him a chance to do better.

Mark, absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks, Colin. All right, everybody. Go to the YouTube channel, Twitter, Instagram, the Volume, Sports, Rate Review, subscribe. You know the drill. We'll talk soon. The Volume.

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me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced. games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

Space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human