The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Why Colin Is PRO Tanking, When Should LeBron Retire? 24 Team CFP? NBA Needs To Make Changes

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Colin’s joined by Danny Parkins, host of “First Thing’s First” on FS1. They begin with tanking in the NBA and Colin argues that he’s pro-tanking because it’s the only way to turn your franchise around since it’s so difficult to trade star players in the NBA (2:30). They agree that NBA players have gotten so good at shooting 3’s, it’s led to a less visually appealing product for the fans that makes the regular season tough to watch (10:45) and they debate potential fixes (23:30).  They pivot to LeBron and debate when he should hang it up, with Colin arguing that Michael Jordan’s years with the Wizards didn’t dent his legacy at all and Danny believing LeBron will return to Cleveland to finish his career where it started (31:00).  They discuss the recently proposed 24 team college football playoff and Colin believes it wouldn’t diminish the regular season or rivalries, and due to NIL college football now looks more like its professional counterpart than any other collegiate sport (37:00). Finally, they discuss Scottie Scheffler’s historic run in recent years, and why the huge sums of money involved in golf leads to a bit of apathy from some of the top golfers (51:00). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There's a lot more options. There's a lot of streaming services. There's a lot to watch TikToks and platforms. We're a distracted nation. And so what I'm about to say, everybody knows over the last 10 years, events do really well. Baseball found this out when they started doing, you know, baseball games. games in a cornfield, baseball games in Europe, home run derby, World Series actually do really well. It's that minutia, it's the regular season that hockey, NBA, and baseball can struggle.

That's why I believe dynasties, I believe the opposite of what Adam Silver does. Football doesn't matter. College and pro football don't matter. It's once a week. World Cup doesn't matter every four years. Olympics don't matter. But in Monday through Friday sports, long regular season. now the David Stern approach works better because a distracted nation isn't tuning in parity.

They're not going to tune in parity. So that's my first take. My second take is what makes the NFL great is Mike Vrable and the Patriots can spend $270 million and go from unwatchable to the Super Bowl. Now they got some breaks along the way and they weren't as good as Seattle. You can't do that in the NBA. I mean, you know, with the Bulls. You can't trade people. If a franchise is like, listen, we want to get rid of an aging star.

And the Bulls are like, ooh, love to. But they're young. They wouldn't know how to cobble together enough players or bringing a third team to get it done. And so the only way to go from bad to good is the Spurs. You tank and get Stefan Castle. You tank and get Wembe. Then you make another, because they're very inexpensive for the first several years, you make another couple moves to get your, you know,

you're a Deerran Fox, and all of a sudden you look up and you're like, oh, we go from like 24 wins to 38 to 56. And so I don't know if you can solve tanking outside of taking away draft picks, which seems really punitive since there's only two rounds. And if you're going to make trading impossible, how else do you go? I think Utah is on the precipice of being very interesting in the next year. How? They've been awful for three years. So I guess my take is dynasties, we could start with either one, dynasties actually make much more sense now than they did in the 70s when we were less distracted. And I'm okay with tanking if the rules currently disallow big sweeping trades for the wizards to become OKC within two years, which you can't do that now.

Okay. So as always, there's a lot there. Well, let's park the dynasty thing. thing for maybe a little bit later. We've talked about that a lot in baseball. And like, I agree that the power of dynasties, the chiefs became the team that all the NFL network executives want. And it replaced the Cowboys because they are a dynasty. So you and I are an agreement, and I think the data backs it up as fact. Like, dynasties work. The trade point is an interesting one because we actually just saw at this deadline, like Washington now has Tray Young and Anthony Davis. Like some of the free agents. Some of the free agents. agent rules have actually made it where it's easier for you to retain your guys with,

you know, the bird rights and you can go over the cap to sign your own players and things like that. Like, I think that free agent, like good players leaving in free agency is going to, is going to decrease, which to your point makes the draft even more important. But the tanking thing, I don't know how you can say you're okay with what Utah is doing. This is, it's so, we're recording this. the night of the All-Star game. They are sitting players in the fourth quarter of games.

It is anti-competition. It is anti-sport. Like, is it the biggest deal in the world? I do think there are bigger problems with the NBA, and I'd love to do like a global conversation about all of it with you. But like, I don't know how you can say. Because like in this case, it's Utah against Orlando, Utah against Miami. And nobody really cares.

But what if it was a team that we did care about? And I would imagine that the 15,000 fans that bought tickets to those games would care about it. It is a, these are sports, man. It's an entertainment product. You can't have the games mean nothing. They have to mean something. But I think the Utah fans who almost have a collegiate feel because it's a smaller NBA market, I think they're in on it. I think they know it.

I don't think, I think they go to the games and enjoy it with their friends. but if you ask them, you can get the number two pick or the number 14, they would take the number two. Of course. So you can play the young guys, compete as much as you can with the young guys. But, I mean, Utah's been bad for several years. What's another 12 games or 26 games at the end of the year? I mean, again, it's only a two-round draft. So people say, well, we're going to take draft picks away.

Spygate and deflategate, you only took one pick. If you took 50% of people's picks, okay, we're taking a first round pick, well, then that bad team has even less chance to get good. But don't you think you want, like, I want to say, I want to say this before we get even more into it, because I've heard a lot of the conversation over the last week, because it seems like what happens in our business is we are so football-centric. And then the Super Bowl ends, and we deconstruct it for a day or two. and then we immediately pivot to the NBA and we kind of parachute in and we're like problems with the NBA whether it's tanking, three point

shooting, injuries, load management, like whatever the issue of the day is this year because of the Utah example, literally sitting players unapologetically in the fourth quarter before the All-Star break. We all seized on the tanking thing. You and I have some disagreements here.

One thing I do want to say, though, amidst all of the complaining, the talent is so unbelievable. Yes. Like the league has, so many things going for. Yeah. Like, Katie and Steph and LeBron, not only are

still here, they're all still awesome. Yeah. They are ambassadors of the sport. They are advocates for the sport. They love hooping. They're still great players on varying degrees of competitive teams. Like, you know, I don't know

that, I don't think the Lakers can win a title. I don't think that the Warriors can win a title. But they, we're going to see those guys play basketball beyond the regular. season into their late 30s or in LeBron's case, early 40s. It's a miracle. They're unbelievably talented. And I think one of the biggest problems with the sport is actually counterintuitive, and it's that the players have gotten too good. I think they have broken the game. They're so good at shooting threes that it is so easy for them to do it, that the sport has become a jump shooting

contest. 53s, 63s a game. And it makes it less exciting. Yes. Because I like to see them dunk and fly and do the things that I can't dunk. I can hit a three point shot. Okay. So it's, and then that has led to you've got to defend all over the place. That's right. So you got to run more. Guys are rupturing their Achilles and then they're more tired. So they have to sit. You and I agree. It's all connected together. Okay. So you and I agree. I said this last week twice. Every year at this time, we bang on the NBA. And I said, playoffs will start. I'll totally be engaged.

The game will become much more of a mid-rain game than a three-point game because it becomes get a stop, get a basket, and close games late. You just sometimes you just need a basket. That's why Kauai Leonard is an irrelevant regular season player, but he's been such a great postseason player because he gets stops and he gets twos. Jimmy Butler, that's the first. So I think I don't know if I said this to you, but I said it to. somebody of all. I just, I'm watching right now a great documentary. I'm through the first two

episodes. There's four. It's called Soul Power. It is a four-part documentary on the ABA. It is fantastic. I mean, I don't know where they got the video. So much of it I knew because I started watching sports in late 1971. That's the time Spencer Haywood and the Dr. Jay, that's why Spencer Haywood and Dr. Jay are my first two basketball memories because I was like, I was like seven years old. And I remember, you know, seeing Dr. Jay, who's my first favorite basketball player. So they have video. Apparently the ABA, I didn't know this, had a huge fight problem. I don't know where they got the video. There must be 20 pieces of video of fist fights. It's like, it's hockey without the helmets. It's just haymakers, guys laying on the floor.

So, but that's where the three-point shot came from. But my point has always been, Danny, that basketball was the sport of artistry and culture and sometimes politics, starting with Spencer Hayward, going to the Supreme Court. That was the NFL was corporate. Baseball was the summer sport. You could go have a beer. You didn't care who won, right, unless you were a diehard. Basketball was the cool sport. It was the afros.

It was the dunking. That's why the ABA became a threat to the NBA. The NBA was overcoached. It was like college basketball. It was overcoached. It was rigid. There was limitations, sadly, on how many. the African-American players can play the team.

And the ABA is like flavor and dunking and threes and a tricolored ball. And it was like, well, that's what we like. Here's the problem with the three. The three has reduced dominant centers with perky games, mid-range games. If Michael Jordan played today, he'd shoot 13 threes a game. Of course. Outside of the Blazer finals, do you ever remember seeing him shoot a three that mattered in a game or a highlight we've seen? No, of course that.

I've argued this. We have taken all these art. It's the one sport of artistry. It's the artistry sport. And we've taken the artistry out of it. Now, outside of Steph, whose game is fundamentally based on the three, we've taken Aunt Edwards, Wembe, to shoot a bunch of threes. Ant is the closest thing to MJ we've had. If you took Kauai's hand size and aunt, you kind of have MJ.

And, I mean, Ant's just, he's just, he should. to 11, 10, 9 threes, when be too many threes. So if you took the three point line in the bench, you did not have to defend the corner, you could more easily defend the arch three. Those players would move inside. What happens when you have a mid-range game,

more physicality? Guys aren't chasing people down. They're defending them. Ass on ass, hip on hip, shoulder on shoulder. What do we like about the NBA playoffs? It's physical. It's like men battling.

Fans get into it. So I think the arc, the three-point shot into the bench reduces all these soft, these injuries people are complaining about where the pace is so fast, centers are running to the corner. It would become a more physical game. But I think malice in the palace terrifies the league. And there's something about making the game less physical for a big portion of the regular season.

And I agree with you. It's hard and repetitive to watch. Yeah, to me that is, so there's the health of the players, there's the tanking, there is load management, which is caught up in both of them. But to me, the biggest issue is the style of play. But again, I want to, every time I say it, like I do want to say, I love the game, I respect their talent. And the playoffs are amazing. What bothers me a little bit, I think the in-season tournament was a really interesting idea. We've talked about it before, taken from the Premier League.

and it's guys clearly play harder. There's a trophy on the line. It means something and I think it will only grow in its relevance here. But what I wish they would have done with it is it, I wish that the mid-season, the in-season tournament, instead of a different court, we had different rules. So we could experiment with some of this stuff. Yeah. Like, I don't 100, I don't 100% know if what you just said is correct about eliminating

the corner three. Or if, like, we would just see a lot more like 18-foot jumpers. I don't know. I think you're right, but I don't know. So I want to see it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I want to see, would it be better if we had a trapezoidal, like, international style lane instead of too vertical to force, like, more crashing of the boards and putbacks and things like that, like more offensive rebounds. I would be very interested in, like, them.

Baseball did it. Yeah. But what people miss about what baseball did, people give Rob Manfred a lot of credit. And that's like mostly right. But Rob Manford employed Theo Epstein. Theo Epstein's a genius. And he really cares about the game. And when Theo was running the Red Sox and the Cubs, his whole thing was like, how do I exploit the rules to win?

he wasn't in the best interest of the sport to strike out more, walk more, hit more homeowner, it's boring. But as soon as he got hired by Major League Baseball as a consultant, he tried to start closing those loopholes, more stolen bases, ball and play more, you know, three batter rules, all those sort of things to like to try to force some action into the game. Pitch clock, obviously being the biggest one, it's worked. And it's worked. But that wasn't like Rob Manfred's genius. He needed like a basketball person. And so I feel like the NBA, they have so much goddamn money. And the television contracts are so good that they look around and they're like, well,

our playoffs are awesome. Our talent is awesome. And our money is awesome. And all of those things are undeniably true. But do you have like a basketball? Like I'd be higher LeBron when he retires and be like, okay, honestly. What is the best way to improve the on-court product? What do you like about high school ball, college ball, international ball, the NBA,

your historian of the game, the old NBA. What is the best version of this sport and how do we get there and how do we get to it? And like really have hard conversations about what you can do to it. And, you know, Bill Simmons had a great rant about all of this stuff. And I listened to his pot and I agreed with some of it. agreed with some of it. But like, he seems to believe that you could do 70 games, but the owners wouldn't want to give back the money. So expand. Like, the NBA, absolutely, you watch this sport. Guys sit out because of injury, real or imagined, and guys you've never heard of come in and drop 30,

like it's nothing. There's absolutely enough basketball talent in the world to, to fill 32 teams. So if you went to 32 teams and added Seattle and Vegas, that would increase revenue, then cut back to 70 games, give the players a little bit more rest. They play more. They stay healthier. I feel like that is an obvious fix for the league here. It doesn't solve every problem, but it solves a lot of problems.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas, brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented. We invented a did a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name

Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumored me with Robert Smigel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David

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Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stopped by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, IZAD, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Keith Giamanka seemed like a mild-mannered surprise. Bourbon dad. But secretly, he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue.

Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembering the Civil War. To get to school, I had to go down Robert Lee Boulevard. Get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're an historian and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job. I'm Akila Hughes, in Rebel Spirit, Season 2 goes deep on both of those things.

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Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And the other thing is baseball made these changes, and for years they were reticent to do so because it's a game of history and lore and tradition. Basketball's not. There's an old saying in sports. NBA thinks of it first. NFL gets it right. Baseball makes the most money on it. Basketball, I mean, David Stern changed the texture of the ball and didn't tell the players. He came out. I remember that. It was just outrageously a bad idea. Then they put sleeves on uniforms. And some people thought that was to hide tattoos. That looked dumb.

So, I mean, the NBA's, and David Stern's largely considered almost a maverick, a highly successful commissioner. He took big swings and missed. So I think, I do think in life and in business, when the money is good, people, it absolves you of change. Yeah. And I do think I agree with you. I think that David Stern used to tell like networks like ESPN, listen, guys, nobody watches our regular season. ever have. That's the dirty little secret of this business. But I think there's more media critics and more people bagging on basketball. I think it just needs a few tweaks. I would tweak the three-point

game, make it more situational, make it more about contact and physicality. You do that by just take out the corner threes, make the three arc go right in the bench. And I also, people can bag on tanking all they want is that's why San Antonio is going to have a 12-year run. By the way, If you go back to their, you know, how did they get Dunkin, David Robinson? They were the first tankers, by the way. Remember when David Stern was around and they wouldn't play, like in big Sunday games, they would be at home in San Antonio on, I think it was Saturday night and they wanted to reward their fans. And then on Sundays, like, it's a travel day.

I'm not playing Manu Genoobli and Tony Parker in the league. David Stern got on the phone and barked at everybody, ownership now. But it's the same conversation, but we're talking. slightly past July. It is smart. I am not going to say that tanking isn't smart. Sam Presti tanked in order to get some of the picks that he got, right? Like the Spurs, as you've mentioned, like it's undeniably the right strategy.

The question should be, again, like, should it be allowed? Like, in baseball, it was the right strategy. A strikeout is not as bad as we think. Yeah. Swing hard because home runs are so valuable. It's okay if you hit tooth 20. if you hit 40 bombs. I'd rather you hit 220 with 40 bombs than hit 260 with 24 bombs. Even though 260 with 24 bombs, ball and play more and more action, more visually appealing product.

Yeah. But you score more runs if you hit the ball over the wall. So they did things to kind of move it, move it away from that to have more action in the sport. And so again, like I, what's wrong with the rule? This is just a, it's a very simple one. You can't pick in the top four in back. to back to back years. Like, baseball has it. That's okay. I'm okay. Yeah. Like, like, baseball has that.

Like you, the White Sox a couple years ago had the worst record, but they had picked in the top, whatever it was. So they had to pick like 11th that year. Like just, just make it so that, like, Utah fans. And even if you're right that they are like okay with it because it's a path to it, it's still at some point, this is competition. It's sports. You got to play the game to win or else, what the hell are we doing?

Danny, why your reason your belief could make sense is about three years ago, because of the NIL, where American universities now buy 15 excellent euros, and they pull them off their European teams, and kids are now staying in college, absolutely. We see it in football all the time now. There are six-year players. The truth is now, last year's draft was excellent. This year's draft is legendary. The drafts now are much better. I mean, this past draft, you get down to Ace Bailey at like six. The first six are like no miss. And then you go from like seven to 18 and you're like, well, those guys will all start at some point in the NBA. So I think that idea sticks to me because the draft's going to get much better. When that Yukon team won a couple years ago, it was the first time in my opinion in 20 years. Maybe since the Florida Gators won back to back. Remember they had Corey Brewer, Yo Kim Noah? Joaquina. That was a really really good team. Yeah.

And then we went, how many years it was until the Yukon championship? You're like, this isn't great. But that Yukon team won and I'm like, shit, there's seven NBA guys. They're like playing, they're long. I mean, they got, they got, like the Sabin Alabama teams, you're like, they have 16 NFL guys playing. The Yukon team's like, that's when I went, okay, this, the transfer portal and all this stuff. We're starting to see now. Like, this is really like it was when I used to watch Laitner and Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill, you're like, there's like four NBA guys on this team and two guys off the bench will be NBA guys next year.

So I think you're, I think it works with you. The, no, you don't get a top four pick, but picks five through 14 are going to be starters in the NBA now. I don't necessarily, but we had drafts where it was Anthony Bennett was the number one pick. I mean, we had the Victorola Depot draft. You're like, I'm not sure there's a guy in like three out of four drafts. you're like, it's just nobody here. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And so I just, again, I think that there's just, I think that that's one thing.

I think the pick protections on trades are a little, this, you can trade a first round pick, but it's top 20 protected. It's like, shrink that way down. Like, because right now Utah, they, the reason that they need to tank so aggressively is because if they pick outside of the top eight, it goes to Oklahoma City. Like Sam Presti would get, Sam Presti could get the ninth pick in this draft. So like Utah's like,

we need the pick, but also like the good of the league. We can't give Sam Presti another top 10. I saw that. You know, so like, so like I just, I just think that those types of things,

uh, the league needs to do. They, they need to do it. And I think, I think overall the product will improve, But again, to me, the biggest one is still style of play. And figuring out, like, and Katie hates when people talk about this because he thinks that people are doing it from a place of just looking for something to bitch about.

I honestly think that these guys have just gotten too good. They're too good at hitting 23 footers. Like, the whole league can shoot 35% from three. The whole league. Yeah. I like Kevin Durant shooting threes. I don't like Ant. shooting them.

Correct. I like dame shooting them. I don't like aunt shooting them. There are players who are catch and shoot guys. Clay and KD are built for it. But when Russell Westbrook decides, I need to take five. That's bad television. Correct.

Exactly. And like, again, back in the day, and it's not that you put on a game from the 90s when I'm a child and I got Michael Jordan's jersey on my wall. Like, it is, they're not running as hard. They are not as fast. Like, it is not. But they had. one guy who would shoot threes.

Steve Curry, you're the three-point shooter. John Paxson, you're the three-point shooter. Now everyone does it. And so it's just the game is, you got to evolve. You got to evolve with the caliber of your athletes. So I thought this was, um, and listen, everybody's banging on the All-Star weekend. It's, they're just, you know, it's like this. The truth is, the Pro Bowl was always dumb because like Steve Young says he never got hit harder than the Pro Bowl.

because the old lineman didn't want to block. Like, it was dumb. The baseball all-star game was cool. Then there's interleague play. It's not as cool. I think the truth of the matter with the NBA guys is they make so much money now. They just don't want to play in the game much. And I get it.

I don't want to beat up on the NBA guys. We can, it's, it's, I like the sport. I really, I mean, I'm watching an ABA documentary and I think it's thrilling. I think it's fantastic. The LeBron topic is interesting because I said it last week is I like my movies. I don't want my actors to end like Marley. and Brando or my musicians and like Elvis. I don't want to see a Kame in a Raptor's jersey. I don't like that. Yeah. And I do think the last great sports documentary never done is a 30 for

30 on Michael Jordan's days with the Wizards. And I just don't think you can get the video because MJ has some connection to the league and you can't get the video. But it was like players hated him. I went and watched them twice. It's the last 30 for 30 if you got guys to talk. It would be fantastic, the Jordan Wizards mess. But I was thinking about this when I was driving home the other day because I said, I like LeBron, this would be so great if he just said, I'm out and you're like, oh my God, he ended? Like Brady, you're like, Brady was still like a top seven quarterback.

You're like, Brady could have won. If he had the right roster, he could have probably gotten to a conference championship, maybe a Super Bowl. And LeBron could too, except for now he's so expensive and now Luke is expensive. but I was thinking Michael Jordan's wizard's years did not ding to the nth degree Michael George. He is as big now. I mean, he hasn't played in 30 years. And my take is, is LeBron going to say no to $50 million or whatever he makes a year?

You get to a point, like people always say broadcasters stay on too long. If I was Dan rather making blankety blank or Tom Broca, I'd do it until my teeth fell out. It's easy. You're reading a prompter. They don't make you travel as much when you're old. The money's amazing. And it gives you something to do. And my wife's not going to let me hang around her all day.

She'd be bored. You know, she'd be like, get away from me. I got my friends. So I look at LeBron and I think, what if LeBron played four more years? His last year, he averaged 13. Is it the worst thing in the world? No, of course not. I mean, we, yeah.

Like, if he's going to do $50 million a year, like at some point, there's maybe a bad return on investment for a team in terms of like what you get on the court, but not what you get in terms of jerseys, attendance and all of it. Because he's, he's box office, man. He is, and he, and LeBron plays. I went to the United Center. Best player on the floor for 15 minutes by far. Absolutely. Absolutely. And like, and people would want to pay to see it. Like, people out here in New York when they were playing the Knicks and the Nets back to back. It was like, hey, I haven't taken my kid to see LeBron. Like it was like the talk of the office and like multiple people went, hey, they got it. we can still get our kid.

Like my kid has seen LeBronny six. Like it's unbelievable what you think about just like the range of years that, you know, you've been able to like the generations that have been able to see this guy. What I just, I don't know what LeBron is going to do. Obviously I have no real connection into his camp in any way, shape,

or form. I just will be floored if he just ups and retires. Like if he just says I'm done. He, it's, I think he will want. The farewell tour. Like every city, people talking about it, he's a, he loves the attention.

He's a showman. I don't judge him for it. So I don't know if he's going to give us four more years of it, even though he clearly physically could. But I don't think, you know, he was asked at the All Star Press Conference today again, we're recording this on a Sunday. You know, are you closer to knowing yet? And he was like, when I know, you'll know. Right.

We'll see. I think you're going to say, I think he's going to go to Cleveland and end there. I think he's going to go play for the Cavs next year. And that'll be the sign-off that he'll end where it started. He's a so much of this has been about, it feels like he's almost filming a documentary, like the Bronny stuff we've talked about, like felt like a five, 10-minute portion of the LeBron doc. And if he ends in Cleveland, I think it would be pretty cinematic. By the way, I am strongly recommending you watch the Amazon Prime Doc and the ABA. I'll watch it. I'll watch it. I'm old.

And I knew about half of it. When you see the fight. I'll eat it up. Absolutely. Because there's just a lot of things about race. And it reminds you a little of live tour in the PGA. Like basically, basically the ABA said, okay, let's go steal their best player. They stole it. The MVP of the league was Rick Berry. They stole it. Can you imagine? It feels like Live. The difference is. Yeah. I mean, it's like let's go get Brooks Keppka. Let's go get Rory McElwreck. We couldn't get Rory. We got Brooks. Brooks circles back. It's just when you watch it, it gives you, it contextualizes a lot of the live PGA stuff where when you get these upstart businesses, when Uber went after taxis and eventually killed them, they were sued in San Francisco to great book. I mean, Uber got.

sued multiple times by taxi associations. It's like, listen, Liv's got oil money, but in the end, you know, I mean, the Masters isn't run by the PGA. The U.S. Open is at the British Open. And it's like, there's a hole in this thing. Let's give it a run. So, yeah, it's, you know, this week a story came out and Josh Pate does some stuff for us. He's really smart. And he said, listen, Pete Tamer wrote an article on a 24-team college football playoff. Yeah. I said my favorite part of it, I don't know if the number's right. I've said maybe 16 feels right.

My favorite part is it reduces the importance of the committee. Like at some point, like, you know, oh, TCU didn't get in. We're all going to sleep at night. 12, you get in. I mean, Miami almost didn't get in. And they could have easily won the Natty. But I wonder, because I love college football. And you grew up more of an NFL guy.

And so did Nick right. But here's what's interesting. People really claimed, well, college football regular season, it just won't mean as much. And then I watched Ohio State Michigan play. And I watched myself over the last two years because I thought to myself, that's the criticism of college football in a playoff. And I watched more because my take is I kind of wanted to see. Like I watched Miami when they went, I saw Miami play SMU, a half. I watch a lot of halves of games.

And a lot of times what we complain about, we are in a grievance society, is that college football regular season ratings up. Actually, the college football playoff ratings have been hit and miss because we're not used to it. Yeah, different days. That's right. You expand to 24. It helps November, which is kind of a dead period mid-noven. So now November gets good. December's good.

The committee doesn't mean as much. and Miami and Indiana felt like the NFL. It honestly did. Well, yeah, listen, Miami, Indiana was incredible. Incredible. But I think that would have been incredible. But my point is, because of the transfer portal, you had so many pros on the field for both teams,

two NFL quarterbacks, and because now, Danny, the rosters are older. So when I watched Miami in India, Miami's running half zone, half man to man. you get 23-year-old, 24-year-old guys, not 19-20-year-old guys. So what's happening to college football is, oh, it's more like the NFL, which is like saying, you know, back in the 80s, I've got a prelude. It's more like a Mercedes.

That's a loss. The quality is better. Saying college football is more like the NFL, I see the ratings. We push back because we think there's a big separation. What makes college football great, Danny, is that of all the college sports, it looks at athletically, most like its professional counterpart. And now more so, because guys are clearly staying in college, not one year, but two years, when they could be six-round picks.

So my take is 24 teams. The initial response is, whoa, if I told you your $27,000 car was more like a $77,000 car, you'd be like, absolutely. college has become 40 to 50% pro football, and I don't know what's the downside of that? Well, listen, I think that if that ends up being the case, it's just going to take people a long time to, like, like years to understand it.

Because like we work in the business. You maybe know it a little bit better than I do. How much is this guy making from NIL? How much is this guy making from NIL? Is it legal? Is there a cap? How does it work? It is new. It is confusing. And I think that if we get to 24 teams and the playoff starts in November, so how long is the regular season?

Well, eight games, six games? Well, it would eliminate. So what it would really eliminate is the silly conference championships. I don't want Miami, Ohio State play or Ohio State Michigan playing three times. They play in the regular season. If they met again, that's fun. I don't want them playing three times. I don't want, and not Ohio State, Michigan, just throwing that. I don't want a big rivalry game. I don't want anybody in college football playing for a third time. But that happens in the NFL? Infrequently, does, feels a little different. I'm just saying, like, it's an interesting, like, they're going to play forever, and these conferences are so big that, you know, USC is playing Rutgers in Voluntary.

ball. It's just, it is so football and basketball should have their own thing and everything else should be geographical. And then I think it would start to make a little bit more sense to the rest of us. Remember, NFL, you play three times. You've only got 32 teams. College football, you have 135. So it's much more rare in college than pro than you would face three times or four times. Sure. No question. Divisions and fewer teams, all of those reasons. I just, college football is clearly going through everything changed at once because they got so late to they they no we're going to suspend you for tattoos we're going to suspend you for selling your jersey we're going to suspend you for autographs it's all legal and then in an instant everything became legal and then that wasn't regulated at all and but it's a wildly popular sport and so like more football is good yeah like i i am here for more football we've talked about this before am i a little bit more bothered. They're like Notre Dame and USC won't play. I am a little bothered by it. I think, because I think you talked earlier about events. I want, I want games to matter. I want to care about

games. So a couple years ago, when Michigan, Ohio State happens and, you know, Michigan wins and Ohio State loses, but then Ohio State wins the national championship, I'm like, man, back in my day, that would have eliminated Ohio State from the national championship. And then they go on and win it. So is that good? Well, I guess, because, that means they won the championship, or does that mean Michigan fans care a lot about Michigan, Ohio State? Ohio State fans care a lot about it, but I have to care a little bit less because that was not an elimination game anymore. And I will admit, like, it makes me care about it a little less because it's like I can just tune in for the playoffs like we were talking about in the NBA. You can just tune in for the playoffs. I don't want that to happen to college football.

Yeah, see, my argument is the ratings are showing that it's not happening, is that people, bitch, but we didn't. We just love football, though. We just love football. So anything that results in more football, we are going to watch. And we are betting football. And half of college. Yeah, we are addicted to football. Half of college football fans went to the school. You don't have that in the NFL, right? You're rooting for a no doubt. A jersey or a team. In college, if you went to Iowa, you watch Iowa games. So the pushback is, I won't care as much. Nonsense. You've been watching an average Iowa team for 35 years. And they've been average. So now that you have a chance to get into the playoff. So that's my take on 24 teams.

No, the question is what I care as much. If I didn't go to Iowa and I didn't go to Michigan or Ohio State, am I less likely to watch Michigan, Ohio State if I have no allegiance to it? So that's, I think that is a worthwhile question. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, for people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembering the civil war. To get to school, I had to go down Robert Lee Boulevard. Get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're an historian and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job.

I'm Akila Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal. personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space. We are more than our bodies. We contain essence. We contain spirit. How do you represent that? They are just fueling a fire that is really catching. You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly, he became someone else. else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree.

At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like? No. I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secret.

But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever, because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think a gigantic part of college football fans went to the school. And so, like, I just ran into some Purdue people the other day.

And they're like, they've been watching an average product forever. Now they're going to watch it less. Well, no, they're going to watch it more because they could get into a 2014 playoff, meaning a four lost team is going to get in. So to me, sports is like the longer you can keep people interested. I mean, I think we forget five years ago. It was Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State Clemson, and we knew it by October 8th. Right.

That was- No question. But like, do we need James Madison to play Oregon? They're playing anyway. Now we just push it to the end of the season, not the beginning. They're playing anyway because these colleges all need a seventh or eighth home game. So, okay, but we're calling it a playoff game and one team is favored by four touchdown. reason you're going to have that is because nobody wants to get sued. The NCAA is toothless. They don't want to get sued by these conferences. So you're going to have, again, I go back and

say it sounds like a bigger problem than it is. The first round, you're going to have four games that are just brutal. Every fifth or six year, you'll get a Boise State over Oklahoma. You will get an upset eventually. You'll get one. Some pretty good team will be dinged up. Some low-end James Madison will have like a second round NFL quarterback in a clever. young Chip Kelly coach and they'll knock them off and everybody will be like, oh, this is magic. I've said this for years, Danny, March Madness. One seeds, two seeds, three seeds, occasional four seeds. This whole thing, 16s, 15s, 14th, they don't win games.

It's mythology. So we, and especially now, I think it's going to be like what happened last year. Like, I think I'm interested to see if the gambling odds reflect it, like that the teams at the top, because the teams at the top of college basketball are so damn good. Like, Yukon is awesome. Arizona, Michigan. Yeah, they're so good. Even Illinois, like the ones in the two seeds, it feels like the elite eight could just be ones in two seats.

Like, it feels like it's going in a direction where it's going to be a little, it's going to be a lot shockier. Yeah. So I actually, I'm very optimistic about sports in general. I have not watched more baseball in the last two years. I mean, I'm glued to it. All the teams I care about are big. I think college sports, because the NIL and transfer portal, I think you end the playoffs. You have a broader pool of teams.

I care more. I watched more college football in November this year. I mean, I monitored myself and I'm like, I wouldn't watch these games because none of these teams are going anywhere. They're going to the Sun Bowl. Now it's like, they may get in. I mean, I watch seven Ole Miss games. I never like, what are I doing? What kind of life doing?

I mean, don't you think that's just the product of like, I mean, A, it's partly evolution. Athletes are getting better. We're getting smarter, sports science and all of it. But there is so much money in all of these sports. Like, Carson Beck, right? They asked him at the press conference. They're like, you know, what classes do you go to? He's like, I graduated two years ago. Like, he's a millionaire playing college football in his early 20s, not having to go to school. He's got a professional quarterback coach. He's got a trainer. You know what I mean? He's a professional athlete. He just happens to be playing college sports. So I think he's got a professional coach. I think it raises the level of all of it.

Like, we're just like the golfers. I'm watching the Pebble Beach Pro Am today. Scotty Sheffler had a bad opening round. Almost won the damn thing. Shoots a 63 on Sunday. He's unbelievable. He's the best player since Tiger. It's insane how good he is.

Like, just like generally speaking across the board, the athletic talent seems to be as high as it's ever been. And let's end it with this because I think this is interesting. The knock on Sheffler, he's not that interesting, right? He's got a laugh. Not if you like golf. I love watching him. Yeah, I mean, but he does not a big personality. Yeah, yeah.

And what have we said about, you know, the NBA? The players sometimes seem disinterested. A reality of athletes across all sports, the richer you get, the tedious is not a is not as consumable. And the truth is, with some of these golfers, they can play like eight tournaments. And, I mean, they're so rich private jet that there's, you know, the NBA, Michael Jordan talks about.

They were all fighting for tiny slices of pie. Yeah. The ABA where they were getting, I mean, there's literally in this ABA doc, Danny, they're getting in fist fights. And why? Because people are like, this is their last chance to be professional basketball players. They were, it was like the, you know, it was like the Coliseum. was brutal. There's guys laying on the floor like they're unconscious. And so we're going to have

to own this. The downside of athletes getting richer is to a percentage of them. And maybe it's not a large percentage, but they get other interests. They fall in love with other stuff. They are athletically gifted, but they don't care as much. And they're not fighting over a piece of pot. When college kids come, I mean, Caleb Williams comes into the NFL as a multimillionaire. Thank God, he is so passionate, coachable, and intense. Our football players, for whatever reason, still all of them seem to care to a point. They're like, they're obsessed. And I think something we have to come to terms with is that, A, if you have a big personality

and say the wrong thing, the media and social media platforms kick the shit out of you. So players are now boring. Players don't want to get rep. KD is the rare athlete that will go back and forth. most of them hide. And the second thing is they're, they're generationally wealthy, and that does things to people.

You know, you're not fighting when you wait. You know, it's like the old Marvin Hagler line. It's hard to, everyone's got a plan as they get punched in the mouth. Or no, the one where it's,

it's like when you're waking up and silk sheets. It's hard to get up for the 4 a.m. Jog. Yeah, yeah, no, that was heison. I just said.

So I think that's part of, that's part of the growth and the reality of this generational wealth and college players getting paid, you're going to get this percentage of some players that don't give a shit as much. Yeah, and listen, I don't even think that it's, I don't see, like, not caring as a huge issue in, in sports. Like, do they ratchet it up for the playoffs?

Yes. Of course. Yes. But, like, but like, but some of that, I think is just, it, the sport is hard. Like, you know, like, you have to, you have to pace yourself. You're playing 82 basketball games and running multiple miles a day and chasing around Steph Curry and LeBron and Wembe. So it's a difficult thing to do. So like some of it is just preservation for the human body to save it for the playoffs.

I don't think it's because I don't care. The WNBA screws up. They don't call anything in the regular season. Their players all get hurt. The playoffs show up and half the starters are banged up. Yeah, they got to fix that. The NBA is like, listen, we're not, we're going to call everything. thing, slow the game down, but in the playoffs, we saw guys, stars get hurt in the playoffs.

The WNBA screws it up that so many people get hurt going. I mean, WMBA officiating is bad. And I'm not consumer one. You can turn it on for 10 minutes. It's because remember, they also don't jump over each other. It is a horizontal game. It was chippy 10 years ago. Nobody watched. Yeah. No, it's, it's, it is very physical whenever you watch. And the, The officiating is, I mean, like, officiating in the pros is pretty damn good. You go a level below the pros, you notice it. Like, you notice it in college basketball. You notice it in the WMBA.

But yeah, listen, these guys all have, I mean, Caleb Williams entered the NFL and he had a charitable foundation, his own. Like, he is a business man, you know, like, Bryson, now obviously he's made a ton of money from Live. and he's made a ton of money from winning golf tournaments. But he said he might be able to make as much money from YouTube golf as he could the tour. And obviously, I haven't seen his books, but I have seen some of his YouTube stuff. It's wildly popular with tens of millions of views. Like his like, you know, shoot the whatever they call it, the under 50 series or shoot 50 series, where they play from the front teas with a partner on a scramble.

It's so entertaining. So like these guys have a lot. of ways to make money. Well, also, the Rory McElroy win, and it's, it's the Masters, it's his 17th try. I feel like we got more of those in golf years ago. You, like, it felt like in the 70s, if you won a tournament, you pumped your fist. Right. You beat Jack. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then came the Tiger thing, and Tiger was just a cultural phenomenon. And there was a lot of Phil Mickelson's in around. And Tiger was just naturally competitive. So he pumped a fist. there was no YouTube.

You didn't have other ways. I mean, he had the Nike Golf Association. But I feel like that these golfers now can make so much money doing so many things. I'm not getting as many pump your fist moments or moments when I'm watching Rory at Augusta. And I watched every moment Sunday. I didn't leave the TV. I was like, okay, commercial, run, get, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I do feel a little bit like pro sports sometimes. I golf, I feel like years ago, the pump fist ratio, the purses pre-tiger were smaller. It really mattered if you want Tom Kite could beat Jack Nichol. It really mattered for your net worth and your comfort. I think those days are, especially with guys going to live now, some will parachute back. I just think there's so much money with these golfers. The purses are big. There's not as many pumped your fist moments where I'm where it's palpable for me.

as a viewer. I know they're going to eat either way and fly a private jetty. Yeah, they're definitely going to eat. You watch the no swing thing on a full swing on Netflix. And it's like, yeah, like everybody has a private jet and it's either the one that they pay for or the one that they put like a little patch on their shirt and then they get the jet for free. So yeah, they're all flying. And I forget which golfer it was that said it. But like he's like, yeah, you know, like my game isn't like dialed in right now. This course doesn't fit for me like at a pre-round press conferences a couple years ago. I forget who it was. or look it up. And they're like, man, so he's like, yeah, like, he's like, realistically, he's like, I don't have any shot to win this golf tournament. And so the reporter asked the follow question. He goes, so why do you show up? And he goes, because they give out a shitload of money for

20th. It's like, it's like, yeah, man. You can fly there in a private jet and probably bank 300K for finishing 16th. Like, it's a really, really, really good way to spend a weekend. Yeah. And I still love the majors. I love the British. Open. I love the U.S. Open, especially. Oh, listen, I'm a golf nut. I love it all. But yeah, but again, it's just, but events, right? The majors, the players

championship, oh, Sheffler is making a charge on Sunday at Pebble. Like, it gets you to, it gets you to tune it on. And when you don't have something like that, we have so many different options that it's harder to capture the consumer's attention. Like, I used to as a kid, and you change. Like,

as a kid, the NBA All-Star game, partly because I went to the one in Cleveland in 1997 with my dad. And so I'm 11 years old. And it was the NBA at 50 and all the stars. The NBA at All-Star game was like, I was like, this is the coolest thing in the world. Vince Carter's in the dunk contest. Kobe's in the dunk contest. Like all my guys when I was a kid.

And then you grow up and you're like, oh, all right, it's not for me anymore. Yeah. You out, you out grow it. By the way, you know where the dunk contest started? The ABA, the three-point shot. The ABA. innovation. But again, and I do really think, and I know Adam Silver wasn't asked quite about, he was asked a lot of things at that press conference, but the in-season term, they should change

the rules for the in-season term. Yeah, I think it's interesting. Like aggressively tinker with your product and make, but make the games counts. Like, you don't need to do it in the G-League. Like, just the, these players are smart, though they can figure it out. Baseball has the advantage. They do it in the minor leagues. They have a huge advantage with being able to. So they use the pitch clock for, I sat down.

next to a GM in Richmond. Yeah. And we were, I was flying cross country. He was the GM of the Richmond. We talked to and he goes, oh yeah, we've been on this pitch clock for two years. He said it will take 20 minutes off a game. And it was like almost 30. So he's like, it's great. It speeds it up. He goes, I'm a baseball guy, but it's funny.

Go YouTube. Now, it's the Cubs. So you love them dearly. But go YouTube the Cubs, Cleveland World Series. Watch how slow baseball is. It's like. Oh, no. Listen, man. I remember that is one of the most tense sports. sporting events of my entire life. So, like, I was, and I, and the rain delay in game seven, I was like, this game could last

19 hours and I would be locked in. But, but, but, but yeah, I, I've always said I had a real love, hate relationship with baseball, because one of 162 is just meaningless. Yes. And so they needed to do things to make the product better. And they have, to their credit. They've done a great job. Great job, Danny.

As always, Colin, great job by you. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guidance. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Tolodon. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a suspect is found guilty, Before a verdict is ever read in court, on the Wicked Words podcast, I talk with the writers who dig deep into the cases that changed history, including Marsha Clark, who went from prosecuting one of the most famous murder cases to writing crime fiction. It doesn't matter that you didn't take part in the murder.

If you were at the scene at all, you're guilty of murder. Every week, the real story is revealed. Join us every Monday for new episodes of Wicked Words. Listen to Wicked Words on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.