The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Colin Cowherd Podcast - Wolves Stun Lakers + Knicks Beat Pistons In Thriller, Shedeur’s Slide Was Self-Inflicted, It Was A “Starter” Draft...Not A “Star” Draft,

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Colin starts by breaking down Anthony Edwards and the T-Wolves stunning Luka (3:15), LeBron and the Lakers, and addresses the officiating controversy at the end of the Knicks/ Pistons thriller (9:15). Then, joined by John Middlekauff, host of “3 and Out” to recap the full NFL Draft! They dissect the saga of Shedeur Sanders, why he turned off so many teams, and why the Browns selecting him feel like an “ownership pick” (21:00).  They discuss why it was a “starter draft” not a “star” draft (46:00), why the Jaguars were completely fleeced for Travis Hunter (48:30), and why intelligence is the most important trait in a prospect (55:00)  Finally, they point to the Seahawks as the winners of the draft (1:00:00), debate whether the Rams had eyes on QB Jaxson Dart (1:04:00), and break down why Texas QB Quinn Ewers went from a 1st round prospect to 7th round selection (1:11:15). (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) Follow Colin and The Volume on Twitter for the latest content and updates!  #Volume #Herd #3andOutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jen should win.

She's an outsider to win the French friend. And she likes Clay. Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. The Volume.

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FubotTV.com slash con. 50 bucks off. Two months, Fubo TV. All right, welcome in. Good Sunday night podcast. John Middle Coffee will be joining me in just about 15 minutes. Let's talk Lakers. They lose to Minnesota, 116, 113, in a spectacular game.

You know, people complain about the NBA. Every arena packed. Intense, spectacular effort. referees allowing him to play, the NBA is just fine. So, Aunt Edwards, I'm not sure if you knew this, led the NBA this year in clutch time scoring in the regular season, but Minnesota also played in 46 clutch time games. So what does that mean? They've been in so many games like this because they're not, they're such an effort, size, and defensive-led team. I mean, answer their one spectacular offensive player.

Julius Randall, I think he's played well in the series, but he's not considered an A-list score, especially in his playoff history. So this is a team that has the best clutch player and is the team that was the best clutch team in the NBA. And by the way, when you lead a playoff series, three games to one, you have a 95.5 chance of winning the series. And Minnesota has been a very good road team. We talked about this back in Los Angeles.

when the Lakers went down a 1-0 to the T-Wools. Lakers are not a good road team. And what I really noticed in this game is that basically J.J. Reddick said, we're not playing until Wednesday. We're emptying the tank on our five starters. They put in what they call the death lineup, Dorian Finney Smith.

And Minnesota's got much more roster depth and versatility. The T-wolves can throw different lineups at you and different matchups at you, whereas the Lakers have a really good starting five. and they played them, and they didn't sit them. And so, and I think JJ looked at it and said, guys, we're not going to get on a basketball floor until Wednesday. We're getting on that flight. We're going home, and we're taking two and a half days off.

I mean, they may have a shoot around, but in the end, he emptied the tank. And LeBron in year 22, you can't ask him to go to practice tomorrow, right, or the next day. So that was their strategy, and it almost worked. But I do think the Lakers need a real off season to get the roster right. Remember, they were going to get Mark Williams in that trade, but they didn't get it. The Lakers didn't make the Mark Williams trade because team doctors for the Lakers didn't pass it. And Carolina was upset, but the truth is it really hurt the Lakers. They could have used his size in this series.

They could have used, again, the ability to do more things with their bigs. They're kind of trapped. You know, if you start looking around, Jackson Hayes, you're not playing. So JJ Reddick doesn't trust him. It's like Kerr not trusting Camingo. What do you do? So Mark Williams would have been a huge asset here, a really good defensive stopper, a real physical presence, more than just a lob guy. And I think they need an offseason to get it done.

You know, in terms of what the Lakers did, listen, Austin Reeves was a no-show in the first half. Had a great third quarter. But, you know, I thought once LeBron made that incredible block and then Dorian Finns, Smith came down and hit the three, I thought, wow, there's your game. But then the Lakers on the inbound, the ball gets stolen. And is that kind of a fatigue thing setting in? Possibly could be. Again, I think there's always a, I wouldn't call it an upset. I like the Lakers in five or six games. I think they still have a chance to win it, but they're just, they just don't have the roster versatility. And guys like Nasreid are so good in the fourth quarter. He's, you know, he is

one of those classic guys that everybody in the league knows how great he is, but he's not selling a lot of jerseys. He is such a valuable commodity. I mean, everybody in the league should have a Nasreid, every team in the league. And you know, you think about that and you think, well, I mean, don't go crazy. But a lot of great players don't fit on all rosters. Like, if you have LeBron James, especially in his prime, I mean, it drove Kyrie Irving crazy. It reduced Chris Bosch to a, you know, a corner player. You had to run the ecosystem of the offense, had to go through LeBron, and it could marginalize certain players.

But there are guys in this league that are effort guys, big basket guys, tough guys. They just fit everywhere. And Reed is one of those dudes. So a spectacular game for Ant. And again, talking about Mark Williams, not being a Laker, look at the advantage, points in the paint. Minnesota 46 to 30, a 16-point edge in the paint. And there's your ball game.

just a spectacular, intense NBA basketball game. And the other thing, when you make these big moves at the trade deadline like the Luca trade, obviously long term, it benefits the Lakers more than Dallas. But it does feel like it's historically rare that you make like a trade deadline move, even a great one. And it equals a championship in year one. Remember, Luca had to play himself back into shape because he'd been injured. So Luca's playing himself back into shape.

And I still think Luke has got another 10% of elevation to his game next year. And so you get an off-season, you tweak the roster, you get another big. Luca comes in in good shape and not injured in camp, hopefully. I mean, LeBron feels like even if he loses 5% of his game, I mean, you can see, LeBron can still give you these incredible both his games in Minneapolis. LeBron can give you these unbelievable games. He's not going to give you a seven-and-seven-game series, but everybody's equally rested in the playoffs.

So Minnesota now looks to close it out. Boy, the Lakers had that 14-0 run to start in the third quarter, and I'm sitting there thinking, okay, all right, let's get serious. And then just chipping away, chipping away, roster versatility, depth, and chipping away. All right, let's talk about the Knicks beating Detroit 94 to 93. I thought the Pistons were the better team, and I thought they should have won the game. That last call, the NBA now acknowledges it was a foul. let me talk about this. If you look at the box score, it looks like Detroit won. The Knicks shot much better from three-point land. Other than that, I mean, field goal percentage, 437 Detroit. Free throw advantage. Detroit was great at the free throw line. The Knicks were 11 of 18. Detroit dominates defensive rebounding. But the Knicks had twice as many three-point shots. There's your ball game.

Let me, Kate Cunningham, by the way, is, I'll say it again. He's going to be a top eight, top ten player in the league next year. He got to great look to win that game. Ball bounced around, went to the corner, no foul call, but Cunningham got a great look. He can create his own shot. He doesn't need to pick and roll. Guy, good handles, big body, pro athlete, stop and start game, very fluid athlete. Cades, the real deal. Fubber number one pick out of Oklahoma State, he's just now, he's put three and four years

into the league, and you're seeing his game is now very, very refined. So in terms of the last call, it was obviously it was a bump and a foul. So I'm a huge believer in letting the players play in the postseason. I think it's more intense. I think it's better for the fans. I think you're not going back and forth parading to the free throw line. I just think it's really intense physical basketball when LeBron and Ant are just banging on each other.

It's just captivating. And this game, they allowed a lot of physicality because these are not necessarily beautiful offensive teams, right? like Boston or Oklahoma City or Cleveland. You know, the Knicks are a feisty physical team, and Detroit probably needs another player to get, you know, a little more aesthetically pleasing offensively. So this is going to be a tug-of-war. The downside to allowing physical play has always been one.

It can create fights. You don't want that. But the real issue is, obviously the league, you know, either through memo or through discussion, has told the guys, let them play, let the players decide the games. and it's much better basketball. This is why historically veteran NBA teams have done so well in the playoffs over younger teams. You know, you're watching the Clippers and the Nuggets, which is an incredible series. It's just 10-year vets going back and forth, and they understand it.

The issue becomes when you allow that sort of physical play, and I did think the Pistons outplayed them, and I'm not necessarily sure. Usually in a playoff series, you get to game four or five, you kind of feel like there's a better team. I'm not sure. I mean, I think the Knicks are better. I don't feel like by much. I mean, obviously that cat three-point bomb, Brunton hit a couple of huge clutch shots. I mean, that's the difference.

A shot here or a shot there. The downside to allowing physical officiating is in the last minute and a half of a game. So, you know, psychologically, the refs are letting them go. But we do expect on final shots or the final two to three possessions, you got to tighten the belt a little bit. You know, if a guy's hitting it, brushing an elbow, fans are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, well, that's a foul. So, you know, the psychology of it is you're allowing for three hours this incredibly intense banging and physical play and letting stuff go all over the floor. But then what do you do in the last two to three possessions per team? You know, it's like, hey, earlier in the game, it doesn't change the outcome.

It just changes the score when you allow physicality. In the last two to three possessions, it can change the outcome. of a game. And there's an expectation. You've got to call that bump. So I don't think it's easy to officiate NBA playoff games in the last two minutes of a playoff game. I think it's like, you know, you get into these NFL playoff games with pass interference. You go to a Super Bowl, they let a lot go. You don't see very rarely will you see a lot of penalties in a Super Bowl or a conference championship, let them play. But if you get to the final drive of a game in the Super Bowl or a conference championship and there's clear grabbing, do you let that go too? That's not just a call.

That's an outcome changer. And so I think it's very difficult to officiate these games for the NBA in the last couple of minutes. And we've had multiple controversies in the Lakers, Minnesota game, the Clippers Nuggets game, the Pistons Knicks games, where you're like, are you going to call that? Are you going to call that? And so it was a missed, it was an officiating gaff. I think New York's going to close this series out, but you've got to feel great if you're the Pistons. I mean, you got your superstar in Kate Cunningham. You got a couple of veterans. It's not the prettiest lineup, but they're well-coached.

They fight like hell. And it's been just so interesting to watch this series. I got to tell you, that Cat 3, one of the shots of the plus. I mean, Aaron Gordon's dunk to win it for the Nuggets by the shot of the playoffs. cat bomb. He's such a gifted offensive player and so limited defensively and he's a quirky player.

But, I mean, Rockets Warrior, Steph put on a classic Jalen Green, Cape Bandek back down to Earth. All these playoff games have been so fun. All right, let's get into John Milkov, former NFL Scout. Three and outs his podcast.

Let's chop it up about the NFL draft. The NBA 82 game grind is done. Now the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs, love them. They're here. Time for drama, clutch moments. Steph Curry, LeBron, jaw-dropping plays, I can't wait.

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Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special.

So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down in three to Roebuckina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you contact. and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. All right, John. Obviously, the story of the draft was Shindvers Sanders. It just dominated. Mill Kiper lost his mind. So I want to throw. I'm going to start with this and you know this.

So basically, I would have drafted Shadur Sanders if I was the Pittsburgh Steelers. So I don't think they needed a defensive lineman as much as they needed in a division with Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson in a conference with Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, and Patrick Mahomes and C.J. Stroud, they don't have a quarterback room of note. I think Will Howard's a backup in the NFL. So congratulations on getting another defensive lineman, but I would have drafted Shudor Sanders. That said, once he started falling in the draft, I.

I started making calls. I went on the internet. And it was very interesting. So two general managers who I hold in sort of my like circle of trust and I think are really as good as general managing gets on this league, not Howie Roseman, but there's another eight guys or so that I really like. You know, a couple of them had said to my friend Steve Kime, that Steve Kime had asked. because he had Jalen Milro as a client for clutch sports. And he had asked a couple of GM friends, hey, about a month ago,

what do you make of Shadur Sanders? And both said, you know, his tape isn't great. Like, you know, there's a lot of stuff you don't like on his tape, and he's not a great athlete. But that said, I still think he's accurate enough to be in a bad quarterback draft class to not fall to where he, fell. But I'm going to start with this, which I talked about on my own YouTube, you know,

pod this weekend, is that when a guy does fall and you're seeking answers for it, you start going back and examining things, and things also start to surface after the first round. Stories start to surface that were not talked about pre-first round. Clearly, the interviews, were worse than it wasn't just a story that bothered people. It was true, and there were more than one instance of a bad interview. But I had said this too, is that once you didn't see Shadur Sanders as a starter, because of the smoke and noise around him with Dion basically his dad at Super Bowl week saying, we're going to control this, there are certain teams we're not going to play for. Travis is going to go one, my son's going to go three.

I did wonder, John, like the T-Bor Cam Newton effect. If he's not the starter, do you want the Dion noise as a backup for a year? Do you think that is what teams thought about once you got to the second round is, okay, now he's a backup. And I'm not sure teams love that Tebow-level noise, celebrity quarterback, backup stuff. Yeah, I mean, obviously, like you, I did a lot of digging these last couple days because I liked him as a player, and I just assumed he'd go somewhere between like 10 and 45. Yeah, same are. Maybe in the first round, maybe in the second round. So when he precipitous fall of

the fifth round, you get to start texting around. And you've said this for a long time. Quarterbacks are held to an unfair standard. It's also why they make $50 million a year. That's right. You know, I mean, it's also why I would say they are now viewed as the biggest in sports right up there with like, I mean, a level of like LeBron and Steph Curry immediately. Yes. So I would say from what I've heard, he had one of the worst off seasons that these teams have ever seen from a quarterback prospect. And that could be from a first rounder to a seventh rounder.

Right, right. Because they're all, they all act. You are a product of your class, right? So if I, if I'm a good looking girl and I walk into a bar and there are 10 supermodels, I'm not going to be viewed as highly as if I walk into a, room with a bunch of ugly people. And in this class, it was a bunch of high-level cats. Cam Ward, I know people with the Titans.

They loved him. Drew Brees said this a long time ago. Playing quarterback is like 70, 30, intangible off the field upstairs, 30 my physical qualities. Peyton Manning couldn't beat me or you in a race. He didn't have a big arm. Tom Brady said, yeah, I couldn't play any other position in high school football beside quarterback.

Right. So this class from Jalen Milro, people love the guy. Dylan Gabriel, he had to be one of the favorite. when it came to the coaching staffs. Obviously, the Will Howard's, the Riley Leonard's. These guys are the most impressive people of the entire draft when these coaches and these GMs are meeting with them. They leave the room and these coaches go,

God, I wish Riley Leonard and Will Howard were better players. They get drafted in the fifth, six, seventh round. Most people think, yeah, he's probably not going to be in the NFL long, but we love the guy. And Shador's off the field is not bad. Never been in trouble or anything. But when you act, there are only so many teams, right, to supply-demand thing. Well, six teams last year drafted quarterbacks in the top six.

They're immediately out. There are several quarterbacks on rookie contracts. They're not going to be in the mix. And then the veteran teams, Andy Reid, the bills, the Ravens, they're just consumed with trying to win the Super Bowl right now. So it's a small, small group. Yeah. Right?

So the small group, well, those were the people he met with and clearly turned them off. And McShay's been coming out with this report. What happened with the giants of like, I don't need you, that never happens. And I think it's become popular because if you look at these comments online, it's like, go against the establishment, go against the man. It's like, guys, this is a business that if you're decent, you will make $40 million a year. Find me another industry that pays that level. And if you're like Cam Ward, who was viewed as a fifth round pick, comes back,

does all the right things, plays well, people love the guy. He's a first round pick. He's going to get $40 million guaranteed. So if he stinks, if he's terrible, Trey Lance is a good example. People love the guy. Couldn't play. But he made $40 million. You know, so this, to carry yourself, listen, we all look up to our parents, right, or

whoever raises us. And he looks up to his dad. His dad is one of the greatest players of all time. Right. And his dad can act however he wants, just like great players can always act however they want, because in a business like pro sports, they're going to, there are only so many of them. his son was not that and I think that really turned people off. The other thing that really bothers me is this narrative of like,

this is the NFL pushing back against NIL. It's like guys, Kim Ward just made like $3 million playing at Miami. The NFL, every GM's a millionaire. Every assistant coach now is probably a millionaire. And obviously the head coaches are all making 10 to 50. They don't care at all. Travis Hunter, I googled his NIL deal. I mean, it was reported between $4 and $5 million.

It's about being a good person. All these kids in college, the entire, first and second round. They were driving Ranger Rovers and G-Wagons last year in college. It's not about the money or the NILs. Just like, one, there were a lot of red flags guys that were drafted well above Shador Sanders. Those guys were viewed as good players. Now, I think Shador's a solid prospect.

So do I. But what I've heard about the way he's acted, like he would be an immediate turnoff to any human being, right? In any industry. That's not how young people act. And I think they tried to change their tactics from what I've heard the last like months, but it was too late. It's hard to pivot. And again, you're just compared, like, they view you in a group with Jalen Milrow and Dylan Gabriel. And so that's who you're compared to. You're not compared to Cam Ward. He has nothing in common with you, but he already, people like him on and off the field. So the group you're compared to, it's like, well, we love the people. What's up with this guy? Anytime it's like, what's up with this guy? And you play

quarterback? Yeah. Like, that's a problem. Yeah. So I talked to an NFL general manager yesterday. And he said, Colin, he said, the conversation, we talk about players in this league, the conversation with quarterbacks is a separate conversation. We talk about, we talk about quarterbacks like I would as a GM talk about coaching prospects. I'm talking about your temperament, your leadership. One of the, this GM said, when I hire coaches, very rarely will you get Andy Reed or Kyle Shanahan. scheme excellence. You're hiring CEOs. McVeigh is a CEO. Dan Campbell's not a scheme genius. He's a CEO. And he said, that's what you're, so he goes, that's what a quarterback is. He's your CEO on the field. So temperament, maturity, the guys rally around him. So the interview, how do you hire Sean McVan not let him out of the building? It's not his resume. It's his interview. And so I do think, and this stuff, you know,

obviously Brian Daible, the Giants is going to say, oh, the interview was great, because Brian Daible has to go back on that Colorado campus over the next four or five years or next 10 years. So you'll never hear a coach bang on a university or a coach because that coach is going to have four to five NFL players the next year. So you just swallow it and go, that was a great interview. But I think there's more than enough smoke here that that process wasn't great. And I, you know, I'll say it again. I do not like, and again, I did not think this would be an issue, but I was forced to talk about it once he's dropping out of the first, the second, the third, the fourth. Then I'm forced to talk about it. And my take was, well, if you're really making me pick what's a problem, I do think Dion during Super Bowl week, exclaiming, this is on our terms. It wasn't until mid to late March that Dion went, okay, he can go anywhere. And I think it pissed people off. I know. I know. no one team that was totally turned off. And remember, you go into a draft, John,

as you noted earlier, there's usually, like, for instance, the Rams, the Rams decided before this draft, they were going after a quarterback next year. The Rams made a decision in house. We probably need to get one in house, but we're going to go for it next year. That's why they made that trade with Atlanta to get two first next year, because their first will be deep. So they're looking for a top 12 to 15 first, and if they have to, use both to get like the second pick because you're going to have Drew Aller, Clemson's quarterback, Arch Manning. So if they want to get up to like third or fourth in the draft, they need a second one. So the Rams, there's about seven teams a year that need a quarterback, either as a starter or backup.

And the Rams immediately decided with their trade, we're getting ours next year. I think if you just looked at all the starters in the league that teams are either obviously elated to have, or feel good about, I don't think you would find one that isn't basically an A-plus off the field. And I think the one guy who's clearly matured, I don't know if Kyler Murray would fall under A-plus, but he's clearly matured. I mean, I'm now living in Arizona seeing the comments from him. And from a talent standpoint, I mean, you're older than me. He's got to be one of the most unique talents in the history of pro sports.

That's right. That's right. He's one of the great blue-chip physical attribute talents in any sport. ever. We won't see a guy again get drafted in the top 10 and number one over court. He's 5'9. So it's like, yeah, it was a learning curve and his maturity, he's matured. Some guys mature, slower. We've seen Baker and some of these guys. But for the most part, they are a plus, everything in terms of leadership, intangibles, work ethic. People just like being around. There's no it never comes up. The last unit in the building I want to think ever about is my overall quarterback

unit, not even just my starter, just the group. I know I'm going to have a couple of D-lines. issues, maybe a wide receiver. The quarterback issue, it's the last thing on my mind, beside like an injury or something that I have to make like a tangible transaction for. And he basically handed them like they started seeing what they see in other positions. And they're like, this is insane. And this is the notion that like the collusion and stuff, it's just, it was honestly kind of embarrassing by a lot of people around the NFL. I think, you know, former players and stuff. I think it was bad look by a lot of people that have no

fucking clue what they're talking about. Well, it's you and I, basically, you worked in the league and

I have more sources. There are two conversations that go on about the NFL. One is public, one is private.

I'm talking to two people today. Those conversations never hit the air, but they're giving me background on stuff. I do not think,

we both like Shador as a player, like not love. I don't think he's a bad guy. I want to clarify, I don't think he's a bad guy. No one does.

No one does. I don't think he's a bad guy, but I do not. I said this on the show Friday, paying for the quarterback draft room with legendary all over it. It's like, bro, come on. Just the New York giant shoes. It's like, dude, just scale back a little until you're drafted, then do whatever you want.

And then you combine it with his dad who did not, you know, I've been saying this, quarterback dad's become pageant mom. Then his dad in January and February during Super Bowl interviews is saying there's just some teams we're not going to play for. It's like, dad, you're not helping here. Well, I'll give you two examples. I mean, your boys with time. He's representing in clutches, Jalen Milrow. Everyone that met Jalen Millrow is like, he's not even accurate. And they're like, we want to like this guy. I mean, the best example in recent memory is Chris Ballard, who I would say the Colts plays a pretty high premium on the person. And I remember hearing all this about Anthony Richardson. They're like, you know, I wanted to not like

Anthony Richardson based on his tape, but then you start meeting them in the draft process, the league started to like him. I heard this about E.J. Manuel years ago. I met E.J. Manuel. You fell in love with a human. Most quarterbacks is like, God, I love this guy. You know, hold your girlfriend tight because you're just like, those are the type people, they gravitate toward. And this is the first one in recent memory that turned everyone off. Like, this was universal. And again, when I say everyone, Andy Reid and the Eagles aren't spending time scouting this guy closely. So it's a small group of teams that he needed.

And so you go to the fifth round, like he is now, we can just talk about the room. It's very difficult. There are only so many reps at practice. So we know Joe Flacco's going to be the starter. And then they got this group. I think it's pretty clear that the coaching staff and the GM, two Ivy League guys, they like Dylan Gabriel. That's why they drafted him in the third round.

I think it's fair to say Jason Lloyd, who's like the Tim Kawakami of the Cleveland area, covers all these Cleveland sports, wrote a pretty good article on The Athletic yesterday. This is clearly, this was an owner pick. Okay, so what world? I was going to ask you that.

Look at the reaction on Twitter. You know, they got posted in the draft room. Stefansky looked like he wanted to jump off a bridge. Andrew Barry's comments in the press conference was like, yeah, the value, but the way they talked about Dylan Gabriel and the other players, we have a history now with Jimmy Haslin.

Like, Deshawn Watson was out until Jimmy said, no, we're doing this. And now you get into another situation, where it's like you drafted a quarterback, kind of take a step back, you're going to have a couple draft picks, but Jimmy Haslam, because in what world does it make sense? Because you go, well, in any other position, you take multiple quarterbacks. True. But in practice, I can rotate my tight ends or my running backs or my defensive line in literally every play. If you go to an NFL or a college practice, your ones and twos, if there are 12 reps during a session, the ones get eight,

and the twos get four. You don't have that many spots for like the six quarterbacks. So how Gabriel's drafted higher, he's going to get more spots. I think it's just a weird. It feels like it's got Jimmy Haslam written all over it. And you see the look on Stefansky's face. Like, guys, get me out of here. This is crazy. Because how could you go from Deshawn Watson to then taking a quarterback in the third

round to then taking him in the fifth with everything that comes along with it? It doesn't make that much sense. Also from a, yeah, I don't know. I just, I think it's just a clunky, weird spot. It's not out of Shador's control, but it didn't make sense. No one takes a quarterback in the third and a fifth. It never happens. It's a numbers game. It's just you can't practice. My guess is Flacco wins the job, and Shadur is probably more impressive in practice. I mean, I think he's better than Dylan Gabriel. I just think he is. I do too, but this is the other

element. You know, if Jimmy does force them to do it, which to me, I agreed with the take. I'm like, that's what it felt like. You can still, it's not like Jimmy sets the practice schedule, who's getting the reps. So you can manipulate it as a coach. Happens all over the league, right? You talk to some of these GMs like a player, the coach likes a player, and you kind of, you can argue all you want in the room, but at practice, the GM doesn't get to run practice. So I'm with you. Like, I think Shador is a better player than Dylan Gabriel. I think drafting Dylan Gabriel in the third is pretty old. I didn't love that pick.

So my theory was they're no dummies. They've been around Jimmy long enough. They realized that like as Shador falls, he's going to force them to take Shador Sanders. So they go, listen, we'd love to take this guy in the fourth or fifth. Let's take him now. So it kind of shuts him up. But then Shador just kept plummeting.

And they didn't have a choice once they got to the fifth round when he's like, you got to do it. So my theory is they overdrafted him to shut up the owner. because any visual you saw of Stefansky and Barry, he's right over their backs, right? You see most rooms, the owner's next to them or in the corner just like hanging out. He's right behind him kind of hovering. I mean, it's a, that's a bizarre place, Colin. It really is.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, just to show you how much intangibles matter that you talked about earlier, think about this. Baker Mayfield won a playoff. game for the Cleveland Browns and not only want a playoff game, beat their number one rival the Pittsburgh Steelers, and they moved off him, not because he couldn't play because of the intangibles. Think about that. Just say Cleveland Browns win a playoff game over the Steelers. That should give you three contracts. They moved off him. So when people listen to this and think, well, the intangibles, no, it's a 70-30 intangible league when it comes to quarterbacks. Baker has now matured and they love him in Tampa and I love the fit.

But they moved off of him, Andrew Barry and Stefansky, because he kept inflaming press conferences and he just couldn't, he just wasn't ready for to be like lead a franchise. So your point is, I've said this for years about Dak Prescott. He's not an impressor, impressive thrower of the football. His intangibles are amazing. His tangibles are mediocre. Dan Mullen came on my show, had him at Mississippi State. He's like, yeah, he's not impressive throwing the football. I mean, we never thought, oh, he throws the best football on Mississippi State.

His intangibles were through the roof. So this stuff absolutely matters. I mean, look at Purdy. You know, I would say his intangibles, he's got Patrick Mahomes level intangibles. I mean, Sam Darnold's has talked now for two years about what he's taught him off the field. Purdy's like 25 years old. So you can get by with average characteristics, which Shador has, DAC, I would say cousins, it would fall under that, right?

Jared Goff's not exactly quick or a huge arm by being elite off the field, your study habits, how you are as a leader, how you are as, you know, the captain, as the guy that everyone's falling. I think Tampa really benefits from getting the version of Baker that they have now, who is like, I think everything John Dorsey wanted, and Jason Light now benefits from that. So, listen, where do you get drafted doesn't define your career? You know, people freak out always, and you and I have talked about. about this, like, getting drafted in the third round is some travesty.

It's like, guys, there's a small percentage of people that are even playing high-level D-1 football. And you see by the draft picks, if you don't play in the SEC or the Big Ten, you're at a huge disadvantage trying to get to the league. So, listen, he's a fifth round pick. But he falls a couple rounds, sure. But if he's good, the cream usually rises in the NFL. Yeah. And I do think he is a first or a second round pick. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast. Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

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This is how you guys remember it going down. Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Yeah, I was watching the draft, and there were three players that jumped out to me that I think it's a very, this signifies that it wasn't a star draft, but it was a starter draft. Cody Simon gets drafted by Arizona, a team that had a good draft in the fourth. He was a tremendous inside linebacker for Ohio State. He was in on every play, every run play he was there. Damien Martinez, the Seahawks get him the Miami running back in the seventh round. He averaged four and a half yards of carry.

Jabbar Muhammad for Oregon, a starting corner for Oregon, the Jags got him as an undrafted free agent. Now, he had a, he's not a great athlete. his vertical went from 23 to like 30 in the combine. So he really worked at it. But those are not maybe great players. But in any draft that Cody Simon for Ohio State's going in the middle fourth round, to me, that's a pretty decent draft. That is a football player.

Yeah, to me, it's not, I don't think people would bet their careers on the high end, like a bunch of all pros and Hall of Famers. But I think when you look at the second and third round and you and I are degenerate Saturday, football watchers. There are a lot of guys that are going to play in the NFL for a long time. I mean, the amount of running backs and defensive linemen that were drafted on the second day, I mean, both Ohio State kids, one started at Ole Miss, Jenkins and Henderson, I think are both going to be really, really good players in the NFL. And there are countless defensive linemen that were taken that are going to be high-level players. Receivers, I mean, we see this

every year. I mean, the amount of guys they're going to go in the third, fourth, fifth, Tess Walker, the wide receiver from Oregon. I want to be screwing up his name. First name, Tess, who's Bo Nix's former roommate, who, like, they kind of adopted him. He's like 160 pounds. That guy's a fantastic player.

And I think the Tampa Bay Buccaneers got him in the seventh round. So sometimes guys just fall because they're small, they have a bad combine. They have, you know, an injury that limited their tape as seniors, and we see it all the time. A guy that's a fifth rounder,

all of a sudden is way better in the second rounder. It's why, and I talked about the Van Pelt rant about the grades. I've been going to these training camps for so long. You get there, you're so excited to see like, oh, let's look at the first rounder. Then all of a sudden, you're like, who's that? You're like, that's the undrafted free agent.

He ends up making the team by the middle of the year. He's the starter. So it's the NFL, this is not basketball, where if you're a first round pick, minimum you're going to play. In football, like, you're going to get more time as the seventh overall pick or the 15th overall pick. But if you can play and you're the third rounder, if you're the fifth rounder, As training camp goes and as preseason goes, by September, you're already in the mix.

That's how fast it happens. And then we know how many guys get injured and all of a sudden you've got three guys that are rookies starting. Well, the other thing is especially, you know, I've heard this for years too. Some guys, it takes them a year to get the playbook down. You know, I mean, there are not just a quarterback, but there have been, I don't want to pick on players, But, I mean, I have talked to executives in the league or coaches in the league and they're like, you know, we really like him. But we didn't, you know, their coaching staff at some school, whatever school is, you know, they didn't tell us that, you know, he can struggle, you know, in, you know, memorization that he tends to, you know, be somebody that struggles to kind of stay on the same page. You know, he's a little bit of an ad libber.

And there's a receiver that I think of a few years ago that team drafted. And everybody was like, why isn't he playing? And it was just a matter of the playbook. And so some guys come in and, you know, they just are ready to play. The other thing is fit matters in the NFL. It really matters a lot. And I think the really good organizations have continuity. How many years of Brett Veach and Annie Reid been together?

Or Les Sneed and Sean McVeigh or Shanahan and John Lynch? although Shanahan kind of runs the draft. I mean, he has the ultimate say. But the truth is when you're, when you're, there are times Trent Bulky, obviously, in Jacksonville and San Francisco, there are times the GM and the head coach do not like each other. Or you have this constant change where, you know, the, the GM didn't hire the head coach. And, you know, there's a lot of careers at stake and a lot of money at stake. So continuity is really important because, you know, you get, you get this hot shot Jaguars GM.

I thought it was too big of a swing for your, first move. But he's got some hubris. He's got young, good-looking kid confidence. And, you know, you think the coach has a say in this stuff, but what if he is just sort of a, I'm going to do what I'm going to do guy? So I think continuity, say what you want about the Steelers. They draft well. Well, it's been a lot of the same people for a long, long time. So they all know what each other likes and they're not competing against one another. Yeah. I know the Jags. Some of his videos go viral. You know, the NFL, you know this, is pretty close-knit group.

And I think, you know, some of his comments, listen, you make a trade, you make a bold trade, no one has a problem. They can agree or disagree. But the way he described Travis Hunter, I mean, I had a text today from someone in a war room that said, on our trade chart, they got absolutely fleeced on that trade. It wasn't even close. And sometimes you pay a premium to move up to get a quarterback. But when you pay a premium to move up to get Travis Hunter, when you don't know, these guys, guys are both brand new. I went on a walk today and I called a couple people in the league because I knew we were going to talk and just to pick their brain. And I asked him, I said, what's one thing

that you really, really struggle with? And you spoke about the players struggling to learn. And he says, I have a hard time with just dumb players. Because I learned early on when I got to the NFL, you can't crush a guy because he has like a 2.0 GPA. Well, if he took Jason Kidd like seven times to pass the SAT. He's one of the smartest basketball players ever. You, This is football, basketball, baseball. Your intelligence in the sport doesn't always translate to a classroom. I don't even argue most classrooms can be a little overrated. Like, who cares how you score on a standardized test?

But some people just, you know, are a little smarter than others, right? And he's a little, look at the all pros and the Pro Bowl guys and just watch most of their interviews. Most guys, obviously there are some smarter than others, but aren't many dumb guys. And learning in the NFL when it comes to mental and physical fatigue, the combination of that, this is not college. You're playing 17 games. You're doing a long preseason. It's the meetings actually now in football. You know, in the Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Bill Parcell's days, a lot of time on the practice field. You could really out-tuff a guy.

You're not in pads that often anymore. It's actually turned much more into a mental game. I've watched way too many GM press conferences the last three days. But one thing, how he talked about was like the game has become such more of like a chess match and open feel and speed. it's no longer, you know, Bill Romanowski meeting Lorenzo Neal in the hole. Like, not the teams don't run the ball, but it's a spread game. It's an offensive coordinator playing chess, the defensive coordinator with his chest pieces. So intelligence and the speed in which you play, that's why you get really tired because you're running nonstop against all these guys.

And smarter guys also typically, like, you can get in trouble off the field and not be a bad guy. If you're just, you're kind of dumb, you just make bad decisions. And, you know, and it's hard to balance. Some guys, you know, can overcome that. Some guys never do. And you and I have talked to enough coaches over the years, you know, guys getting crushed in the media. Like, why aren't you playing so-and-so? It's like, he doesn't know what to do. So if I throw him out there, my quarterback and my center and my star-tide end are going to freak out because this guy's going to screw us up nonstop. Well, I mean, two stories. Tom Brady, one of the reasons the Patriots were absolutely dreadful on drafting wide receivers because Tom didn't want to babysit kids into the league. It didn't mean those kids were good players, but Tom was hard. Like, Tom was not going to wait for you to figure it out. So not that it's on Tom, but a lot of receivers struggled with Tom. I don't believe that the New England Brain Trust just couldn't draft receivers. Tom made it hard. because he was very impatient. Come ready to play. The other thing is, I asked Jimmy Johnson once in the green room at Fox.

I would get there early and pepper him with questions. And Jimmy taught me more football than anybody I've ever met. And I said, what's the most important thing? The number one quality. And I was surprised by it. Because, you know, those Miami programs were considered renegade. And he goes, oh, intelligence. He goes, Colin, I think I'm a good coach.

If you don't take to my coaching, I'm just an average coach. coach. If you don't take to Andy Reid's coaching or Sean McVeigh's coaching, well, then those are less successful coaches. You have to get people that can, you can insert stuff and they can pick it up quickly. I can remember when Randy Moss came to the Patriots, dude, it was one practice. And they were like, yep, he knows the offense. It was like, Randy just knew the game of football. It was funny. I remember. people asking, I mean, I can remember the interviews. And it was just like, yeah, yeah, he just kind of picked everything up.

He didn't have to tell Randy Moss anything twice. Like, he just instinctually knew what to do as a football player. You know, obviously this guy, you know, can be a pain sometimes and, you know, got some stuff going on right now, Tyree Kill. But I remember talking to Andy Reid years ago, picking his brain on draft players. You know, it was like a month before the draft. And we started talking about stuff like this. And he says, people don't understand how smart Tyree Kill is in terms of

offense. I tell him one thing he's picked it up for the rest of the year. So it's like, why did they have so much success? Obviously, he's got special physical skills. They could do everything with them. Why do some guys that are these great talents? Like, why aren't they using them more? He doesn't know what he's doing. He's like a Randy Moss of Tyree Kill. You tell him one time in the middle of August, I pull that out in November in a tie game in the fourth quarter when it's freezing cold against the Raven. Boom. He's like, yeah, coach, no problem. Run it. Run it again. He comes to to me with ideas. And that separates these guys. Most of the best players, you look around at positions? I'd even say historically, are football geniuses from Ed Reed to

Ronnie Lott, any position, right? Look at Travis Kelsey. Him and Patrick Mahleram's makeup routes on, it's like, why can't anyone cover Travis? Because they're not running place. He runs whatever you go the opposite way. And it's from a football intellect standpoint. And he's a good example. And this is why the draft is so hard. He was a major red flag coming out of college. He's even talked about it. And he's matured as a human. But in terms of his football IQ, like you, like, You know, it's why some of these guys are going to fail that can play. It's because they're not going to mature or they're not going to be able to handle football. And some of these guys, like the Ohio State crew of guys, I think is a bunch of on defense,

a bunch of higher character, tough, physical guys. But I think a lot of people view them, their physical attributes aren't elite, but you watch. I bet the group, the middle linebacker, the couple pass rushers play in the league for like a decade. Right. Because that stuff usually matters. Now, I don't know how good of a players are going to be, but they're going to be around. for a while. Guarantee it. Yeah, when I watched Cody Simon play for Ohio State, it was amazing.

It was as if he knew where it was going. You would watch teams run motion, and Cody Simon would just fill a gap, and the ball always came to him. That was one of the players. He was one of my favorite players in the draft. I think Ohio State has so many good players. And to your point, these Ohio State guys, Simon is such a character guy. and Mecca Ibuka, like A plus, plus, plus, plus character.

Sawyer, JTT, that crew. Yeah, just, you know, that's, and so credit to Ohio State and Ryan Day. And because they've got, they have created a program where those guys come out and they're ready to go, highly functional, very coachable. Colin, the first 38 picks, they had six of them. And their two best players in the program are still in the program in Downs and Jeremiah Smith. I was like, no wonder they won the national championship. So I don't know about best draft and draft grades. I will say this.

The Rams and Cleveland both got a first round pick next year. That really helps. Okay. So if you can get a first round pick and get a bunch of good players, which the Rams in Cleveland did, it's hard to argue that's not the best draft. But I thought the Seahawks did really well. Gray Zebel, the guard starter. Nick, is it Amon Worry the hard hitting? I just call him the DB from South Carolina.

Carolina that the NFL loves. They think everyone speaks highly of this guy. Major, major range, starter. Arroyo, Elijah Arroyo, probably a rotational tight end and a starter very quickly. Jalen Millroll. I was told today that Seattle will use him as a rookie in six to eight plays per game. They're going to use him. They want him on the field.

You get Sam Darnold in the offseason. Then Damien Martinez in the seventh. I mean, I look at the Seahawks draft and I was like, you've got three starters. the most athletic backup quarterback in league history. You went and got Sam Darnold in Free Agency. I think that's an upgrade. Maybe it's a small upgrade owner Gino Smith. And then you get Damian Martinez, who will be your third back.

But because the Seahawks backs tend to get banged up, he actually will play. I thought Seattle had a really, really good weekend. Is there any team that jumped out to you? Everyone I texted Seattle is the first team they bring up. Now, John Schneider is extremely highly thought of in that community. like people, they just like the guy and they think he's really, really good at his job. You know, I think a lot of people,

I think the Raiders are just trying to get the train back on the tracks. And listen, we can debate that they taken the running back too high. The second round guy, they took the TCU wide receiver, Beck, whose brother had died in the New Orleans attack.

Oh, God, yeah. He started LSU, he transferred to TCU. They're just getting like, you know, for a while when they had Mayock and Gruden, and this carried into Josh McDaniels, like he had to coach these guys. They were taking some crazy flyers on individuals that the league was like, what are you doing? And part of just being a solid team is just having some dependable players.

And I think for a long time, they have just, you know, Al Davis kind of carried into the franchise, even though he was long gone. Obviously get Grudenback, who's basically his mentors Al Davis. I think you get John Spitech, who, like we talked about Jason Light, who I think we could say their draft too, but their draft every year. He's one of the best. John Spitech is, to me, the next Jason Light, John, you know, less need, like a scout scout. You know, John Lynch is an example of a guy, different route, how he's viewed more like this hybrid can do a bunch of stuff.

John Spitech, his background isn't scouting. He understands players. I think, I don't know how good their team's going to be, but I just think they're going to be solid where they have had a lot of holes because it's like, wait, you just drafted Alex Leatherwood in the 17th overall. Half the league didn't have the guy in the draft board. What are you doing? And I think those days you kind of just get away from. And one thing I've come around on Gentie, again, I'm pro Gentie, the player. I just think taking a running back really high is pretty risky.

I watched Pete Carroll talk about it. I was like, you know, he's got a pretty good history of like picking running backs. Because if you count USC as a pro program, which it basically was, like, he kind of knows what he's doing at that position. So I would imagine it's going to work, especially with Chip and his, I mean, Chip's a run first, ideally offensive coordinator. And, you know, Tampa is another example. I just think that that team has kind of set the bar. I mean, they're going to be better this year. I know they've won the division a couple years in a row,

but they had a lot of injuries last year and they barely won that division. It wouldn't shock me if they win it. Honestly, I could see Carolina, like being better than somebody. Did you see the story? Did you see the story? Carolina got Team Mac, the receiver from Arizona. Did you see the story that? And they didn't really go after a receiver.

until the seventh round. But the Rams were interested in moving up to get him. They were interested. So, I mean, the Rams were not really in the receiver hunting ground, right? They didn't, they got the guy from Pittsburgh in round seven. The Rams were interested in TMAC. Now, I had heard that like Will Johnson, he had turned off some teams, but he didn't turn off the Rams and he didn't turn off Carolina. As you know, it takes one team. I mean, the Giants really like Jackson Dart. My people were very hitting. miss on Jackson Dart, mostly missed. They didn't see him as a first round quarterback. Well, the Giants did. So it doesn't take that many people. Everybody like that South Carolina safety, the Seahawks got,

like everybody in the league like him. Exactly. Everybody like Malachi Starks is like universal praise. Yeah. So I want to circle back on this. So you don't think the Rams would have taken Jackson Dart? Because I saw someone say that that's why the Giants traded up because they were afraid that the Rams and obviously the Rams then backed up. Well, the Rams, I, asked Les over a text six months ago. I sent a mock draft to him and he said it's probably and Les said, and I can say it. And I guess probably not a great year to need a quarterback in the first round. He said plenty of talented guys later. So once they gave up their first round pick, I don't think they were going to draft Jackson Dart. My intel is they weren't. They interviewed

him and he would have been able to sit for two years. But Jackson Dart, is a player, there's too many similarities to Zach Wilson, including the same high school and the same offense in high school. And I came back, and again, if the Giants like him, they like him. So I'm not going to crush the Giants. I wouldn't have done it. But if you like him, you like him. And obviously, the Giants did, after that interview, were not into Shadour. And then Jackson Dart was the next most ready to play guy. When Lane Kiffin is your coach and Lane gives you about 12 completions a game just on scheme. Okay, now I need you to hit six to seven on your own. And there were games, I watched that Florida game when he crapped a bed. It was the biggest game for Ole Miss in a long

time. And I think a lot of people watched that game. And that was a tough environment. So Jackson had too many games against big, big games. And those are the games that, you know, before you break down film, you're an NFL GM on a Saturday. Ole Miss plays LSU or Bammer, Georgia. You're watching that football game. There's 20 NFL guys on that field. Jackson didn't play well in a lot of those games. You know, I also think it's important. You know, I had heard Carolina felt very good about the Arizona wide receiver. And I think when you had a couple people telling me this, when you have a smaller quarterback, you know, it's easy for Tom Brady or Peyton Manning at 6-5-66 or that whole kind of era of quarterbacks that are really tall to see everybody. I could have four

Julian Edelman's and I can just pepper them. It's harder for Kyler Murray and Bryce Young to see those guys. So who's Kyler Murray's number one target? It's not actually the wide receiver. It's Trey McBride because it's easier from my vantage point to see the head of a six four, six five guy. So I think they really valued his size for their young quarterback that kind of like gave the franchise hope. Who knows what would happen if he did not look good down the stretch? We might have been talking about Carolina thinking about drafting Jackson Dart. So he changed the narrative on his career. And yeah, I think the Rams, you know, they took, I watched, McVeigh talk about Ferguson, the tight end they took from Oregon. He really likes them.

So I think they were really desperate to get some unoffensive now that Cooper's gone to help puk out with just a high-end offensive weapon. If they could ever get the running back to hold on to the ball, they'd have a pretty dominant offense. Well, they also, they didn't draft a corner, and that's an area of need. They went to another running back. So does that tell you that Blake Corum's a bust? They got Blake in the third. They went and got another running back. I know they've been frustrated with Kyron Williams fumbles, but they drafted Blake Corum and did not play him much last year. Now, he got injured late. But my takeaway, not drafting a corner and then taking the Auburn running back. So they got Devante Williams, they went and got a tight end,

and they went and got a running back. So it feels like to me this draft for the Rams was, listen, we've been paying attention to defense for two years. We got it. We're going to let cornerback go for a year. Tide end. running back Devante Adams, this is an offensive leaning draft. So I think, but I thought that was interesting. They took the Auburn running back, who I watched play. He's got some breakaway to him. But Blake Corum was a third round pick.

Why would you do that in a year you absolutely need a corner? It could also be, you know, Keirwin Williams' big picture eventually, are you going to pay him? Are you going to pivot off him? You just, you have options. You know, running back is a position where a lot of teams, they draft them basically every year. You just kind of keep churning it in and out. This was a good running back draft. I also think when you have, I mean, their defensive line has a chance to be really good.

If those two young guys take another step, good defensive line will make average corners look pretty good because they are peppering the quarterback. So that makes it a little easier to just, we'll figure it out in our defensive backfield with our defensive linemen becoming stars. Yeah. So I went and looked, and this is something that to me is really interesting. I went and looked at next year's mock first round draft.

So there was Arch Manning, Clemson's quarterback, Drew Aller, the Penn State quarterback, Nussmeyer, the LSU quarterback. There were four quarterbacks in the first round, and there will absolutely be two to three that emerge over the course of the scene. South Carolina kids, someone to keep an eye on. He's pretty interesting. So, but it is interesting that I think the Browns by moving down and the Rams by moving down in their first round both told you we're going after quarterbacks

next year. That's what makes the Brown so fascinating because to your theory and point was they, I really believe you're on to something that they signaled early. We're going big game hunting next year. I really do think you're probably right that they drafted Dylan Gabriel over drafted him because they didn't want Jimmy Haslam to say, hey, you remember because Haslam was Johnny Mansell guy. Haslam, flashy Johnny Mansell, teams like New England took him off the board. Haslam was a Deshawn Watson guy.

So I think, you know, Steve Boshadie of the Ravens has real pull, even on draft day for the Ravens, but he's really smart. Cleveland's history, as you pointed out with that owner, is they, they, they, they, they, they, they, showed you by trading down to the fifth pick next year's the quarterback draft class. And I was told that, by the way, by a friend of Andrew Barry, is they just did not like this class. Well, and think about isn't Haslam a big Tennessee guy. He's close friends with the Manning family in that circle. When they made that move, it was probably an easy sell for them because part of doing that job

in that organization is you've got to sell it to the owner. It's like next year we'll go after arch, which I, I don't know where you stand. I feel it's a little, I get it comes with the territory of that last name. Like, let's see him play some real games. I know. He doesn't have the biggest arm. I think someone's already said he's really more like his dad than his big, you know, his brothers.

He does not play like Peyton or Eli. I hope he's good. He's easy to root for. But like I watched his arm. It looked more like Shador Sanders than it did Josh Allen. And I think he's already being talked about like he's John Elway or something. And that conference, you see how many people are getting drafted. I would imagine the SEC are going to lead it again.

I haven't seen Texas as a schedule, but I would imagine it's not easy. And who even knows? Maybe he's there for a couple years. He's only going to be, what, a redshirt sophomore? Let's end it with this. So I had said a year ago, Quinn yours was a first round pick. And I kept being sold on Quinn yours as a first round pick. And I kept saying all the year, I don't get it.

I just, I think he's Drew Locke. maybe. I don't get it. So he got drafted in like the seventh round. I like Drew Luckmore. Okay. Yeah. So that is the classic. When Chador was dropping, I was like, well, I mean, Will Howard threw for a million yards and won a Natty. He's not getting drafted. I mean, Jalen Milro is one of the great athletes ever. He's not going first couple rounds. And, you know, and I think Shadur is better than both of them as I sit in the pocket, throw the ball. But it's just interesting to show you how things can change. Quinn Ewers was a five-star best high school quarterback, goes to Texas, beats out Arch Manning a couple of years. And my take was always when I watched him is he's got Texas's dominant O line and he still won't throw the ball down the field. Like in the NFL, he reminded me of a less talented Derek Carr. I'm like, Derek, wind it up, go down field. Like he was the classic checkdown guy with Texas protection.

So that's an example where when people all freak out about people not being drafted, remember two years ago, Sam Howell in season, when the season started, people are like Sam Howe late first round. He went fifth round. So I think with quarterbacks, you start digging into film. Maybe there's some intangible stuff that makes you uneasy. I didn't want to overreact to Shudur Sanders. I just felt in the end when his dad on Super Bowl week was.

saying, you know, we're going with our terms. He was talking directly to the seven teams, most of the bad teams that needed a quarterback. I think, you know, for Quinn Ewers, I think when the schedule comes out and all these teams get together in training camp, there are probably, depending on the year, six or seven games where basically every team is going to be represented at, and every GM, whether they're on the road or at home, is going to watch on television. And last year, that was Oregon, Ohio State. That was Georgia, Texas. That was Georgia, Alabama.

It was a short list of games. You don't unsee Quinn Ewers against that Georgia team. You just don't. We didn't unsee it with Carson Beck either. Everyone's like, I'm out on Carson Beck. And Jalen Milrose is a good example. People don't forget that first half he had against Georgia, where he looked like, I don't know, the best player in the country.

Even if the, you're just like, okay, he played shit against Vanderbilt. That's not ideal, but people aren't breaking down the Vanderbilt. tape. You're watching them against Georgia. You're watching them against last year of Michigan team. You're watching them against Texas. Those are the games that matter to you because Vanderbilt doesn't have any NFL guys. And that's where I think sometimes these conversations, Shador is a good example. When I was talking to Buddy, I was like,

I like Shador, just like everybody else. I like Travis Hunter, too. Travis Hunter's not playing NFL people in the Big 12. There aren't really NFL people in the Big 12. They had 31 players drafted total. For example, the SEC had 80. So, I mean, And two of those, or multiple were Colorado guys. So you have to balance it. If Chador had done what he had done in the SEC,

you couldn't bypass the talent because you're like, you're throwing these touchdowns. But the conference he's doing it against, I'm sorry, fair or not, he doesn't get that much respect in the conference. You get way more respects. Like, well, Jalen Miller has been a multi-year starter at Alabama. It's just way harder to play in that conference. Quinn Ewers was just so bad, Carson Beck,

but they get a lot of respect playing in that conference. if you just play well, but he played really bad. And like you said, yours, I mean, he made one of the biggest throws of the year in that, in that game against Arizona State where it looked like they were going to lose on like fourth and ten or whatever. But it'd be like, it was Arizona State, not Georgia. You know, that's, and fair or not, you get judged by the competition. This is not where in the NFL, even if you're playing Jacksonville, they got a lot of good players.

It's not like that in college football, right? So it's the discrepancy in the draft by the conference. Well, listen. I mean, the Big 12 is not a good conference, Colin. At all. Think about this. Pro-wise. Ashton Genty, everybody in the NFL kept telling me it's the Oregon game.

If he doesn't play Oregon, because he wasn't dominant against Penn State, if he doesn't play Oregon, there's a lot more questions. Everybody went to the Oregon game and went, well, shit, they got defensive linemen that are pros, corners that are pros, and he was great against Oregon. That got him drafted. You hear a lot like the Bowling Green tied in. gets drafted or whoever. Some of these smaller school guys, it's like, well, look at when they played Penn State and when they played Michigan. Kalil Mack, who played at Buffalo, he had three

sacks against Ohio State. I think Taylor Decker was their offensive tackle. So like no one cares about the other games in the Mac. Right. I mean, they judge your attributes and stuff. But yeah, like you said, Ashton Gentie ran all over the Washington States and San Diego States. He ran for two bills against Oregon. And Dan Lanning, you hear all these coaches in these press conferences, he's really highly thought of the way he runs his program, how good his players are. So I think people struggle like not all things are equal. You know, Georgia, look at Ole Miss. Look how many guys Lane Kippen had drafted.

You know, that conference, this argument about the SEC, like it's, it ended a long time ago. They have the best players by a mile in it. Honestly, it's not even close. I mean, look at two of the best players on Ohio State. They got downs from Alabama. the running back from Ole Miss. So it's like, what are we talking? And the Big Ten is clearly a high-level conference.

But the ACC with Florida State down and Clemson not being what it was, it's kind of falling off a cliff. Yes. You know, it used to be almost felt like three conferences. The ACC was kind of right there with the big game. Oh, the ACC, ACC games can be a rough watch. Big time. If you add up, Colin, the ACC and the Big 12, 42 and 31 total drafted players at 73,

that's only two more total than the Big Ten, and that's six less than the SEC. That's combining the other two power four conferences. That's a pretty big gap. Doubling it in terms of pros? As always, great stuff, buddy. See you, Colin. The volume.

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