The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Dak Prescott, Browns, Patriots, and where Colin was right & wrong

Episode Date: September 30, 2019

Colin gives his thoughts on Cowboys QB Dak Prescott's performance against the Saints, his thoughts on the Browns and QBs like Baker Mayfield, the Patriots win over the Bills, and where he was right and wrong over the weekend. Guests include Eric Mangini, Torry Holt, Trent Dilfer, and Tony Gonzalez. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the Heard at Fox Sports Radio. Orrame or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching

heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a busy Monday. So much to unpack. This is The Herd, live in Los Angeles, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, one hour from now where Colin was right, lots of that, and where Colin was wrong, lots of that. Joy Taylor is joining me. all the road teams winning yesterday. The young quarterbacks were, they had some tough times. Tom Brady had tough times. Patrick Mahomes had tough times. This is what I love about the NFL.

Just win Sunday. Suddenly Cleveland's in first place. Right. Or you lose Sunday. Houston and you're like, oh, man overboard. This team can't, it's just so great. It was a crazy day yesterday. Crazy day.

Let me start with this. So once again, we have a dad. Prescott game where you can take two angles. I'll tell you the angle I take, which is Dallas had no running game, playing a great defense. Amari Cooper could not get open at all. Jason Witten fumbled. Zeke didn't, but it was called a fumble.

Last play of the game, Dax in position, throwing a Hail Mary for a chance to win. Or you could take this angle. What? No Drew Brees. Saints never score a touchdown. Our defense is unbelievable. And we can't make one play. Dach can't make one huge play.

And the funny thing is, both of those are true. And I'm okay with it. Tell my wife this all the time. Happiness is controlled by expectations. About two months ago, I went to a store with my daughter, and I bought a bunch of cheap t-shirts. They were about seven bucks a t-shirt. My expectation was those will be good for about four washes.

And then they just won't fit. And tried to get one on yesterday, it was done. Four washes. When I sit in the back of the plane, my expectations are different than when I'm fortunate enough to sit near the front of the plane. What are your expectations? If you're waiting for jaw dropping with DAC, that's on you.

That's not on DAC. You know what I saw yesterday from Dak? I saw what I get every Sunday from Dak. Fourth quarter, Cowboys have a chance to win. Dak never makes that dumb, young quarterback throw. He never makes that throw. He's always never too high or too low emotionally. He's almost sort of the classic poker face.

He'd be a good poker player. And when guys are open, he hits him. I get that every game with Dak. Okay? So if you're waiting for Carson Wentz and Mahomes and Aaron Rogers and Russell Wilson, that, my friends, is on you. He is not jaw-dropping. He is not breathtaking. He is not spectacular. But I'll tell you what, he doesn't make that throw that Cam Newton does or Kirk Cousins does and get you out of a game. He never ever put you in a position where you're like, man, we played great defense and we're not in the game. You're always in the. You're always in

the game. And by the way, if you are a cowboy fan that is saying this this morning, but he'll never make the play that Mahomes will, or Carson Wentz will, or Russell Wilson will, you're right. And it's, it's, you know what that's called? Being a realist. You have realistic expectations on Dak Prescott. And again, you can take any angle you want. But did you notice what Dak said after the game, this is also. something. I get every Sunday with DAC. I think this was on us. I think this was about our lack of execution. Regardless with the way they're doing things, there's a lot of plays left out there on my part, on this whole offense's part. A grown-up. It's not taunting a coach. It's not blaming a

teammate. It's like, we left a lot out there. We can do better and win. So my expectations with Dak against that Saints defense, which is special. In fact, I think Latimore, you can argue he's the best player at his position in the NFL. Amari Cooper couldn't get this open. Zeeke couldn't run. I've seen Kirk Cousins in those games when he doesn't have a running game. I've seen Mitch Trubisky in those games when his best receiver can't get open. I've seen Cam Newton in those games when Cam has no running game.

and they're making mistakes in the game's over. Dak Prescott, with no running game, top receiver can't get open, loudest place in the NFL, great defense, throwing the wall down the field near the goal line. I'll take it. I will take that over 99% of this league not called Patrick Mahomes and Carson wins. All right, let's shift to this. Well, well, well, well, well.

Cleveland Browns are in first place. Oh, in Ohio this morning, they are dancing in my football grave. they just can't get over themselves. Hey, Colin, your face. Did you look around the NFL yesterday and did you notice a trend that the young quarterbacks that teams needed to save the day struggled? Okay, Josh Allen, we can't move the ball here. Save the day.

Lost. Baker, we're in a hole. Our defense stinks. Save the day. Can't. Kyler Murray. You're going up against a better coach, a better roster and a better quarterback. back, save the day. He couldn't. But in Cleveland, they didn't ask Baker Mayfield to do that.

The Cleveland Browns rushed for almost 200 yards, almost seven yards a rush, had the ball for 31 minutes. They didn't ask Baker Mayfield to save their bacon. What they asked him to be was manage the game, make a handful of big throws on play action, to make sure you were emotionally in a good spot, too high, not too low. He threw a pick. He didn't go crazy. And watch our defense dominate Lamar Jackson. Baker Mayfield, by the way, when he's asked to throw over 32 times, his record is three and nine. When Baker has asked to throw the ball 31 times or fewer, he's 6 and 0. Again, expectations. I keep hearing what a great athlete he is. He runs a 48, 440. He's 5.11 and a half. Kyler Murray could be a Major League baseball player. That's

a great athlete. Andrew Luck was a great athlete. Tim Tebow's playing baseball. If you're thinking that Baker Mayfield, that we can play average defense, just worry about getting the ball to OBJ, ask him to throw 34 times in Ocarious, that is a you problem again. That is not who he is. Look around the NFL yesterday.

The young quarterbacks who were not asked too much, were not asked to save a team. I mean, Jared Goff threw 68. times yesterday. Of course he had multiple turnovers. That's two Sundays. That's like two games. So when I watched Cleveland yesterday, I'm like, oh, that's a formula. Nick Chubb 24 carries in that ballpark, play really good defense, ask Baker to throw

the ball primarily on play action. You can do that every week. I can do that every week. Baker Mayfield can win a division. if that's the formula. The first couple of games of the year, you were asking Baker to do stuff. He's just not capable of doing.

He's not a great athlete. He's fine. He's got good feet. He's not a great athlete. He doesn't have a howitzer. He's not Went or Mahomes or Rogers. He's got a solid arm, a good arm, not a great arm. He's a decent athlete.

He's not a great athlete. Yesterday, the Cleveland coaching staff, Freddie Kitchens, finally figured it out. Oh, Baker is not going to lead us. Baker is going to manage our great defense didn't I tell you Nick Chubb? Didn't I keep telling you? He's going to be, he is the star.

I said this before the draft. I said my favorite running back, and it was a deep draft, they said, get Nick Chubb. And Cleveland finally figured it out. Baker's not going to be. And here's the thing, when your franchise doesn't have a star quarterback, when you finally get one that appears competent, he's our savior.

He's going to be. He's the good. Baker's not the savior. That's not what he is. What he is is potentially a franchise quarterback who with a great defense in a running game can make the needed throws and you can win divisions. But when you're bad forever, when John Elway leaves Denver and you're trying to make every Jake Plummer the Savior, no, no, John Elway is a once in a 15, 20, 30 year franchise.

After Dan Marino, you're looking for the Savior. Savior is, even Patrick Mahomes isn't a savior because Kansas City was getting to the playoffs. with Alex Smith. Patrick Mahomes is not a savior. And Cleveland thinks Baker Mayfield is. No. Yesterday is a formula. Stop worrying about getting OBJ touches.

Stop worried about Baker making plays that make great highlights. Defense, running game, play action, have him throw fewer than 31 times. He's 6 and 0. That was a nice win. By the way, did you notice this yesterday? All the young quarterbacks that had a running game. Gardner Minshu. had a great running game with Leonard Fournett, won.

Daniel Jones, his top running back, 118 yards, one. Kyle Allen, Christian McCaffrey, he's a freak, one. All the young quarterbacks, he didn't ask to save the franchise. All the young quarterbacks that had run support, one. That's the formula. Maybe when they get older, it's not, but it is when they're young. All right, coming up next, Blazing Five Top of the Hour, It is a top of the hour blazing five, but calling right wrong, my bad.

Fridays, Mondays, all mixes together. Coming up next, I think I'm seeing something from a team and I've never seen it before. And it's unbelievable. It may be the best I've ever seen. And for the first time in my life, none of us know what to call it. And we've always known what to call it when we see it and we don't know what to call it. Colin right, calling wrong, 45 minutes from now. That's coming up.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama,

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And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it

and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro

absolutely and that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never. ever seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series

because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nass would get that thing. that man, hell get to flyin. He running up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp

with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker. You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Look. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep. My mama wants you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Don't use your wife or girlfriend shampoo. Get your own. Dove men. Care available at Walmart.

Don't use your wife or girl shampoo. Your hair is different. So do them in your hair a favor. Get your own from Dove. Top of the hour, Colin Wright, Colin Wrong. Can't wait for Eric Mangini, former Brown's coach and Jets coach and Patriots assistant.

We'll be joining us here in the chair. My entire life, every great defense has had one of two things, generally both. It's had a great nickname. In the 70s, it was the steel curtain. It was the purple people eaters. Minnesota. It was the orange crush in Denver. It was the monsters of the midway, mid-80s with the

Chicago Bears. It's the Legion of Boom in Seattle, right? Like they all have great nicknames. And if they don't, they at least have stars. That Baltimore defense with, you know, Ray Lewis and McAllister on the corner and Tony Saragusa. There's never been an exception. A great all-time defense. You either got, I have pro bowlers all over it, or I've got branding. The Patriots yesterday, they have neither. Dante Hightower didn't even play. Their top draft picks, they're on special teams. They don't play them.

They went to Buffalo, a well-coached good team, a really well-coached team, in division so they know their personnel. And New England got 11 first downs, averaged three yards a rush, under four yards a pass, and one. Do you know how hard it is to win in the NFL when you can't move the ball for three and a half hours on the road against the well-coached team with an excellent defense, and you win? I mean, we like the Rams defense, right?

It's got all sorts of good players. They gave up 55 yesterday. We like the Packers defense. They gave up 34 at home yesterday. New England goes on the road and can't move the rock and wins. And there are no stars. I mean, last year, they're like 30th in sacks. Dante Hightower didn't play.

Their top two defensive draft picks this year. They're not playing right now. like special teams, seven snaps. New England's defense, even the most anonymous great defense ever had a nickname. The 72 Miami Dolphins. They were called the no-name defense. This team doesn't even have that name.

They'd make a terrible movie trailer. They'd be an awful movie poster. Because all the things they're good at are not really attractive unless you're a coach. They're smart. They're sound. They're experienced. They're coachable.

They're disciplined. They're well positioned. You never beat them over the top. Everybody in the secondary can cover, tackle, catch, and be coached. I've just never seen a defense. And maybe it's not this good. Maybe it's the opposition. Maybe it's they faced a bunch of cruddy offenses.

But in my life, great defenses had stars. They had names. They had a brand. And they usually had two or three transformational players that blew stuff up. and you had the double team. And I don't get a feeling of that with New England. So maybe I'm just overstating it. Maybe they're not that good.

I think it's one of the best secondaries I've ever seen in terms of you never beat it over the top. They can all tackle. They can all catch. If you throw the ball in the wrong place, you will pay a price for it. But it's a very unique defense. Right now, New England's defense has scored more than it's allowed. Now, think about that in the NFL. And I know you can say, well, this team's not good.

and that team's not good and this team's not good and that's name. They've had like 89 possessions this year. People have scored on three of them. I mean, there's stats that say you're good, and then there's stats that historically don't make any sense. And what New England's doing right now, to go on the road and have 11 first downs, good defense, good, Buffalo is a good team.

I mean, that just doesn't happen in the NFL. It just doesn't work that way. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Bontes Burwick was ejected yesterday after a helmet-to-helmet hits. It's Colts tight end, Jack Doyle.

And now the league has suspended him for the remainder of the 2019 season. Yeah, that hurts. This is the third time Burfect has been suspended for on-field incidents, and the NFL issued a letter to him that read in part, following each of your previous rule violations you were warned by me, and each of the jointly appointed appeal officers that future violations would result in escalated accountability measures.

However, you've continued to fragently abused rules designated to protect yourself and your opponents from unnecessary risk. He is planning to appeal the suspension. This is the longest suspension that's ever been handed down for an on-field act in NFL history. This is one of these.

If your resume is filled with troubling transgressions, then you're going to get less leeway. Like, this is why you should be a good person in life because if you have a bad day and you blow your temper, people go, well, he's a good guy, he just had a bad day. Sometimes. Right. Vontes had just had too many flags, so people are going to have no tolerance for him. No, and no sympathy because this is, I mean, he ended up hitting his own guy too in this,

in this hit. And look, I don't think that every helmet's helmet hit tells the same story. Oh, I totally agree with that. It's a very fast game. And when we slow, put things in slow motion, some things can look intentional, a receiver or tight in, a quarterback can move their head one inch and someone is going at full speed and they can't help it. That's right.

Like you said, this is not a space where you're going to get the benefit of the doubt, nor should you. I mean, look, I mean, the hit on Josh Allen was a helmet to helmet hit, but is it the same story as perfect? Like, I don't think that it is. I saw, well, it's still brutal. I saw Marcus Peters yesterday intercept a ball run for a touchdown and get hit as hard as any. Right.

I mean, I've never seen a football player get hit that hard. He literally just disintegrated. Right. But again, it was helmet to helmet. But it was big guy chasing fast guy. They're near the goal line, pow, firework. And you're like, oh, that wasn't a targeting. That was just a massive collision.

Yes. Every hit is not equal and the intention is not there. But if you're perfect, you're just not going to get the benefit of the doubt there. So he's gone for the season and we'll see what happens with the appeal. But I doubt the appeal will be overturned for that. So the Rams suffered their first loss of the season to the bucks yesterday. Oh, my. Jared Gough threw over 500 yards, but also turned the ball over four times, which Tampa Bay turned into

four touchdowns. Talking about not every turnover is created equal. Even after the game, Sean McVease said his team is ready to learn from the sloss and move on their next matchup with Seattle. I think it's really a wake-up call for everybody. Ultimately, it's about finding a way to win football games. We didn't do that today. We make no excuses for it,

and we relish the opportunity to move forward the right way. Because that's the only thing that we can really control is that we play again on Thursday. We're going to find a way to look at ourselves and see if we can play better and we get an opportunity on Thursday, I think that's a blessing for us. Joy, they have no running game.

It's a rough turnaround. No. They have no running game. But didn't we suspect that going into the season? No, but I mean, when you're asking a kid to throw 60, I mean, just think it sounds absurd. No, and you don't really want to put it on Jared Gough, but four turnovers. I know, but remember a couple years ago when Gough faced Mahomes last year? Yes.

Okay, and it was literally, it was the craziest game ever. It was the best game of season, yeah. We didn't crush Mahomes who had five turnovers because. we were like, well, his defense stinks that he's having to make plays. When you ask a quarterback, even Mahomes, throw it 58 times. Yeah, the odds of you turning it over are raised significantly. I mean, he's literally, and by the way, the Rams offensive line joy, because they spent so much money on Gurley early, they had to get rid of two offensive linemen. That all lines not the same.

I mean, it was a very telling game for the Rams. I will say that. You can't rely on Jared Gough or really, like you said, anyone to do that. I mean, four turnovers either way is still a lot, especially at the time. they're going to turn each of them into touchdowns. Like, you're not going to win that game. Even though it was, you know, up until that suit, it was turnover.

It looked like they might have, you know, pulled it off. But what are the bucks? Listen, the first day anybody can figure out Tampa, give me a call. They're the Tennessee and Tampa. I know, right? You just don't know. You literally never know. I said this to you Friday on Blazing Five.

I'm taking Tennessee over Atlanta because you can never bury Tennessee. Right. Because they'll come out and they'll come out and they'll crushed New England the following week. That game with Atlanta was over in six minutes. Tampa's the same thing. I can't figure Tampa out. It's so strange.

It is. Like, do we take James seriously now? For six days? I mean, I guess we got to have a little more time on that. Finally, the Lions gave the Chiefs a scare on Sunday. Patrick Mahomes pulled out the 3430 win for Kansas City to remain undefeated. But Detroit's defense did a good job stopping him, whose streak of 14 straight games with at least two touchdown passes is now over.

He had no passing touchdowns. But he was able to lead the Chiefs down the field with two and a half minutes left, setting up Darrell Williams for the game-winning touchdown run, which is that to me is the essence of the Chiefs. You don't need Patrick Mahomes to throw a bunch of touchdowns to win. He had 54 rushing yards, so he killed him on a couple spots. We're showing one of them there. Yeah, by the way, they needed eight.

He got nine. That was the game. He made the play. And that's really, that's what you need. And that's why he's special. So yes, he puts up amazing numbers and, you know, is, is thrilling passing the ball, but making the play in the moment is what separates him from from everyone else. And that said, you got to get the Lions some credit because Matthew Stafford

played great and that was an impressive game by the Lions. I'm impressed with the line to see him so far. Yeah. No, they were. Well, I knew when I saw the line last week and it was like six and I'm like, oh, the NFL thinks this is going to be close. And usually when the NFL, when you see a line that doesn't make sense, you're like, somebody in Vegas knows more than I do. That's why I didn't pick that game. I'm like, I would have said it was a 12 point. line. And I like the lines to be close in this game. I think sometimes we get overreacting to, you know, the high-flying offense that the chiefs are. Like, eventually it's, that's going to become a halt from somebody. I'd feel a lot better being a Lions fan than a Vikings fan this

morning. What a mess that was. That was an unwatchable mess. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly News. Brown's head coach, Jets head coach, a coordinator for years for the New England Patriots, a defensive coordinator. and the Niners. Let's bring in Eric Mangini. We don't get them on the West Coast much. So I know I got a steak dinner coming up here in a couple of days. And I get the coach. How long are you in town for, by the way? I'm here on week. Oh, my Lord. Well, we'll have a little steak dinner this week. That sounds good.

So let me start with a team that you know well. You know their personnel. You know their system. You know their culture. You know, I always feel like the truth of the NFL comes out by the second or third week in October. Buffalo's had a lot of three and no starts in September. So I look at New England's defense. And in my life, great defenses have usually had a nickname and two or three really high-end players. The Ravens defense had McAllister at corner, a dominating defensive tackle, Ray Lewis, the Tampa Bay defense with Derek Brooks or a Warren Sapp. I look at this New England defense. Dante Hightower didn't play.

Their top draft picks defensively didn't play much. They're always in the right spot, and they're very coachable. Does it look like an all-time great defense? I mean, what do I make of it? They're statistically, people can't get first downs on them. Yeah, I think you might be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Okay. They really haven't played any high-powered offenses, right?

I mean, the four teams they've played have all struggled offensively. And they're going to the next month as well. Yeah, so you might need to slow that down. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when they do face an offense. It can be really explosive. but to date they haven't. And even with the bill situation, you get a quarterback that can do a lot of good things but turns the ball over.

And they start the game and they make a great play on special team. So they're up by 14 points. That game changes. The complexion of the game changes pretty dramatically early on. The thing about New England's defense that they do really well, and the whole system in general is you get a bunch of smart guys that play well together. And everybody talks about being game plan specific. So there are certain defenses that teams will run against a team,

but they don't fundamentally change who they are to stop that team. New England is able to fundamentally change each week who they are to stop what you do best and force you to be left-handed. That's how they're designed. Other people want to do that. It's how we operated in New England. It's how they operate now. And it's different than most teams.

and that's what makes them unique and special. Yeah, they have the ability to just change week to week. That's not really, nobody in the league does it like that. You've got to have smart guys, and you've got to train that way every single week. So when you bring that game plan in and it's radically different than the last week, nobody even blinks. You actually look forward to what the game plan is going to be because you like the challenge of adjusting and taking away that team's strength and make him play left-handed. I'll tell you a game I watched. And, you know, listen, sometimes I don't know what to take from the Rams and Tampa.

I do know that L.A.'s running game is not the same. It's just not. But take the Browns in Baltimore. I don't think Baltimore's that bad. I don't think Cleveland's going to dominate them again when they play them like that. I did see from Cleveland, a team you know well, you live in Cleveland, so you see the shows, you see the tape, you see everything. I did see a formula that seems repeatable. good defense

lower the penalties run with Nick Chubb don't become paralyzed trying to get OBJ the ball it seemed to me almost a fairly simple repeatable thing I think their defensive front's excellent and I love Nick Chubb

I think you can rinse and repeat that a little bit right like that's that feels like a formula yeah it is to some degree but when you look at Baltimore here's another situation where their offense really had played teams that were the bottom end of the defenses.

I think it was like 30, 31, and 32 in points, points a lot, or, you know, something along those lines. And for Cleveland, it's, they go into the season, there's high expectations. They add to those expectations. Then they realize, hey, this isn't, that's not a good formula. That's a horrible formula. They get humbled to some degree, and they've got to, they've got to adjust. And the challenge there is managing the personalities.

you've got a bunch of big offensive personalities. Everybody wants the ball. So to go in and say, yeah, we're going to feature Nick Chubb. Well, is Odell Beckham going to be happy with Nick Chub being featured? Is Jarvis Landrie going to be happy with Nick Chub being featured? So is it a good format? Nick Chub is really good. Yes.

Nick Chub is really dynamic. Nick Chub can change the types of defenses that Baker Mayfield gets week in a week out because they're going to have to stop him. Now, it's managing those personalities during the week saying, we're not designing 12 plays for you to be the star. We're going to run things collectively and selflessly, and I don't know if they have the strength of personality and character to do that. Yeah, OBJ, by the way, seven targets, two catches.

He's had a watch issue, a visor issue yesterday. It was an earring issue. To me, I don't think, again, I think OBJ is icing. I think the cake to me is Nick Chubb. I think he's the star of the offense. He is the star of the offense. but unfortunately there's a bunch of other people who feel that they're the star of the offense and you can you can throw baker mayfield in there too so you need to have a certain amount of

selflessness to operate in that space and when you've got a young head coach and a room full of stars and everybody who wants their name on the marquee it's going to be hard for them and take a step back and say oh no no no you go ahead you star this week and i'll just get my two catches that'll last for about 15 minutes before there's some kind of fight in the meeting room Right, I get that. Eric Mangini joining us. I said to start the show, there's two things. You can look at DAC two ways. You can look at the fact that, listen, on the road, no running game,

Witten Zeke fumble, Armari Cooper couldn't get open from me to this microphone. And last play of the game, Dax throwing a Hail Mary to potentially win. Or you can say, no Drew Breeze, New Orleans couldn't move the ball much, your defense was unbelievable, they didn't score a touchdown, and we can't beat New Orleans. So I could take two views on it. Mine's always been I don't wait for the jaw dropping from Dak. He's a grown-up.

He keeps me in games. He doesn't make the dumb young quarterback throw I see all around this league. And last night I'm like, that kind of is Dak when he faces a great defense. Am I nuts on that? No, you're not. First of all, we're getting a little head, too, on the great defense with

New Orleans. They've done a lot of good things. They were 26th and points allowed going into the game. The frustration thing for me with DAC is when they take away Zique, which everybody's game planning to take away Zee. And with the great quarterbacks, you game plan to take away the great quarterbacks. But that's not what happens when people play Dallas. They take away the running back. Then once that's taken away, you should be able to do something to make the defense pay for that. For make them pay for the decision to load up the box. And Dallas couldn't do that. And I was a little

frustrated from a play calling perspective. And look, there's a young offense coordinator there, but they're getting hemmed up outside in man-to-man coverage. They can't get open. Well, then bunch it up. Bring the receivers in tight. Run pick plays. Run to do something to help create some space for those wide receivers when you can't

get them open. So there are a lot of elements that I think Dallas can take a step back at and look at and say, okay, we need to improve this. I like that from a character perspective. he is an adult. He takes care of the ball. He manages the game well. But are you going to make him the highest paid quarterback in the league for those traits? You'd like to think an elite franchise quarterback is someone that can win the game for you, not just manage the game for you.

Let me ask you about Joy brought this up. Listen, Les Sneed, the general manager of the Rams, paid Todd Gurley a ton, and he paid him a year early. He also paid Brandon Cooks more than I would be. be comfortable paying him. Now they had to get rid of two offensive linemen. Gough doesn't have the protection and Eric, they don't have a running game. I mean, they asked him to throw the ball almost 70 times. I think this Rams team is in a little bit of trouble here. The effect of losing those two offensive linemen is significant. And the other thing that the Rams have had over the last couple of years is great health. In general, they've had incredible health from it from an offensive

standpoint and now when you get to you've got to change the continuity on the offensive line you're not quite as healthy as you have been people have seen your system for a couple years and worked really hard to to close that gap you need to start bringing in some some other ideas and as much as you want to stay with what has worked one of the things we learned in new england is not only do you have to do what you did the previous year as good you've got to do it better and you've got to stay ahead of the posse because it's a really smart league that's also a copycat league. So if you have a weakness, you are going to get attacked with that weakness every single week until you prove you can overcome it.

And it's a hard lesson to learn. And your point's great too. When you start paying that top end of the roster, you've got to let other guys go. You have to. There's a very small middle class in the NFL. It's the haves and the have-nots. and your have-nots have better be pretty productive. Yeah, it's when they built the new stadium,

they wanted to get PSLs, they started signing stars to big deals, and Aaron Donald and Todd Gurley and Brandon Cooks. And it was in a very crowded, distracted sports market, L.A., it was kind of like, ooh, this team's fun. But man, when you pay, I like Brandon Cooks. I don't love him. That's a big contract.

Now I can't with a, let's be honest. Jared Goff's a guy that needs a pocket. We're not talking about Deshawn Watson here. We're talking about a guy that needs a safe pocket sometime in a running game, and their running game is dead. Finally, I'm not sure if you can bench a $28 million quarterback, but I'm watching Minnesota yesterday, and I'm looking at those receivers, and that running back, they can't move the ball.

I mean, could you, here's my question. You coached the Vikings. Could you lose that locker room? You talk about a frustrating situation. And look, there's not a lot of times we're going to say you've got to give Washington credit, but you've got to give Washington credit for letting him walk. They didn't feel like he was the answer. They didn't feel like he was worth the contract that he had.

And then he goes on the free agent tour and they film the whole adventure, all that stuff that led into it. And to who much is given, much is expected. And to have to manage a guy that you've invested so much in. and to your same point with the Rams, you've had to let other guys go because of the guaranteed money that you gave this quarterback. The fact that he's playing the way he is and that it looks like...

Their receivers are outstanding. They have a very good defense. Minnesota... They brought him in to be the difference maker because they had all those other pieces. They felt like they didn't have that dynamic player at quarterback. They could change the equation. And they've had to,

to regress. They've had to constrict what they do offensively instead of getting what they actually, they hope they paid for, which is someone that would make them explosive. That's, there's a lot of talent on that team. They were more explosive with Case Keenham. There's no question. I felt they were more big play with Case Keenham.

Yeah, and in that locker room, when you're protecting someone that's making that much money, could you lose the locker room? There's going to be a tremendous level of frustration. And guys that didn't get paid or feel underpaid or undervalued. There's resentment that grows, and at some point, you've got to have the lack of ego or however you want to phrase it to say, okay, maybe we made a mistake.

And instead of doubling down over and over on our mistake, let's try something different. And you hate to have to do that because there's really no going back if you pull them. But at some point, collectively, you've got to say, this isn't working. We've got to try something else before this. season gets out of hand. Yeah, I mean, I sat there yesterday at the end of the game, and you could watch the body language of the Viking offensive players. In fact, Thielen came out after

the game, basically said, sorry, you can't ask for 180 yards rushing every week and win football games. Eric Mangini, it's great seeing you. We'll talk about that steak dinner coming up here. My wife's leaving town. What a perfect opportunity. Sounds great. A couple of beers, couple of stakes. There you go. Coming up next,

be careful. I watched the Seahawks in Arizona, and I had one strong takeaway, and I'll give you that coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

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on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what.

He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted. this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on

the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up guys? This is

Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office Blue 42. Dude. Hey, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Casper, the most loved and trusted sleep company with over 50,000 five-star reviews. Casper.com code heard. Get you $100 for the purchase of select mattresses. Customer experience product reviews are based on casper.com and Google. It's great to have you in. So I watched, it was really interesting to me because it's Russell Wilson against what Arizona is hoping Kyler Murray becomes Russell Wilson. I mean, it's literally they both baseball players, both very good arms, both hyper athletic, both run around, but they're watching downfield. But I don't think you can have an opinion on Kyler Murray for another year or two, and it can be definitive. Kyler Murray is learning how to play quarterback.

I want you to think about this. I'm going to give you some of the young guys how many college starts they had before they got to the NFL. Baker Mayfield had 48. Daniel Jones 36. Lamar 33. Josh Rosen 30. Sam Darnal was considered inexperienced.

He had 24. Kyler had 14 and not just 14. Kyler wasn't even all in on football. He was a better baseball player than he was a football player for years. He's making it up. Think about Russell Wilson. So Russell Wilson comes into this league.

He is a four-year college starter. He inherits a Hall of Fame coach, Marshawn Lynch and a great defense, and all they ask, all they ask Russell Wilson is, be magical four times a night. Kyler Murray, they're like, could you save us? Could you be magical, 57 snaps? He is learning how to play football.

And by the way, his numbers are not terrible. I'm looking at his numbers yesterday. They were actually close to Russell except one category. He was 22 to 32, 240 yards, no touchdowns one pick, 78 passer rating. By the way, Russell Wilson was only 22 at 28, 240 yards, one TD no pick. But Russell Wilson, with four years of star, Carson Wentz, four years, Daniel Jones, three years. This kid, he's learning how to play. and then they give him an offensive line that stinks and an NFL.

By the way, his coach in the NFL, he's learning how to coach in the NFL. So I just don't, even Patrick Mahomes, who we didn't watch a lot in college, was a two and a half year starter. And then he inherited a great team and the best teacher of football, maybe of my life, Andy Reed. I'm watching, and I'll say, Kyler Murray looks so small to me. I can't get over it. I just can't, I can't get past it.

He was like a little kid running around with his older brothers all the time, right? But he's so, there's a lot of Russell Wilson comparisons here. I mean, they're baseball players. You know, strong build can take a shot. Throw a beautiful deep ball. Kailor throws a ball down the field, beautiful. May I have to have the tightest spiral in the league. Russell Wilson probably throws the best deep ball in the NFL.

Probably does. But I think Russell Wilson is, he's an artistist at quarterback. He's manipulating defenses. Kyler Murray's not doing that. He doesn't have a chance right now. So I watched him yesterday and I'm like, I can't have a strong opinion on Conner Murray. How?

I mean, I can't. He got no starts. Well, this was always my fear with Kyler Murray. And I also thought it was unfair that people are comparing him to Baker Mayfield for Russell Wilson. The experience that the two of them had in college compared to Kyler Murray is not even measurable. That's why when people were saying, like, they know how great he's.

going to be how you literally you literally haven't watched him in college because he hasn't played enough in college for you to know how good joy there used to be a rule this was an understanding in the NFL bill parcels had a rule um you cannot really draft a college quarterback who hasn't started for three years he has to go on the road at least 10 times in big stadiums and be overwhelmed and can't hear so think about this so kiner murray gets one year but he also plays in the big 12 which is kind of a pillow fight. It's a little bit of a, and by the way, the toughest place to play in the entire conference was his team.

So he never had to go on the road to Oklahoma. Right. So Texas was mostly, they were down. They weren't great. They weren't a great Texas team. So he's going to stadiums that are somewhat full, no defenses, flag football. He's kind of 60% baseball, 40% football.

So my takeaway in Kiner, he's actually for his, for his experience. It's not terrible. Yeah, no. Despite all that, he's been impressive when you consider it. I mean, just in terms of throwing the football, he throws to me a more accurate football than Josh Allen. He's got a better release point. I think he throws a better football than Lamar.

He reminds me a little bit of Baker Mayfield where I'm like, oh, that's a beautiful football when he has time to throw. But I have no definitive opinion. I think this kid's just, it feels a little bit. You know what? Sometimes when I watch him, it feels. it feels like when the big brothers all go play football in the backyard, and they let the younger brother play, and he's the most athletic out of all the guys playing,

but he's young and everybody looks a little bigger, but he just keeps finding ways to get space and open, and you're like, yeah, it kind of works, but he's young, so he hasn't played as much football. He didn't quite know the game, like his older brothers know in the backyard. There's a backyard feel to him that does, like Russell Wilson makes you think he's ad-libbing, but everything with Russell Wilson

feels like it's designed, even the scrambles. This kid's just, this is just like crazy. Crazy offense, making it up as they go. By the way, upgrade to the Wiper Blades trusted by Rainier Zeatlow to break world records. The new Michelin Endurance XT Silicon Wiper Blades only available at Walmart. Colin Wright, calling wrong,

on a Monday, hour two plus Trent Dill for next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard Radio app. Search her to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast,

Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist. Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin,

Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust i want you to just really be a good person join me care gains is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood pressure and purpose on my new podcast learn the hard way open your free iHeart radio app search learn the hard way and listen now what's up fam this isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really go. guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing.

That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app. Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, man. is Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Oh, here we go on a Monday. Live in Los Angeles, this is The Hurd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Crazy Day yesterday. Joy Taylor is joining me. Gardner Minchu won again. You know what?

I feel actually bad for Denver because they have had How many games now has Flacco gotten them the lead? And then two games now, Flacco sat in the sidelines and just had to watch his team and his defense. Supposed to be the greatest defense in the world with the best pass rush and Vic Fangio. I mean, I'm not a huge Flacco fan. But the last two weeks, Flacco's done what a quarterback's asked to do. And he sits on the sideline. And Vic Fangio, Mr. Defense, has Gardner Minchu chew up yards and get a field goal.

That's not on Joe Flacco. I mean, maybe we can give Minchu some credit, too. He is what he is. I mean, come on. He's just, it's a silly little crazy fun story. You're just not into mustaches, I think. I don't love mustaches. Not now.

Jeff Fisher has a very nice mustache. It's a strong mustache, yes. But a lot of times they feel. Andy Reid has a strong mustache. He died and I like him. So I like, I'm not anti-mustache wearer. But both of them have very strong mustaches. Like that is, you know what I mean?

Gardner feels a little loose to me. Like it could go, it could come or go. He could go either way or as much. mustache could go. I think it could get unraveled really fast. I do think Denver might be working a little bit off of reputation at this point. Yes. Yeah. It's just it's, it's, Flacco's doing what he's supposed to do. All right. We do it every Monday. Listen, I, you know, we do it every Monday, right wrong. I whiff a lot. I'm right a lot. I got to be hold accountable for both. Here we go. Where Colin was right. It's the hottest I've ever been. Goulet, you've been with me for about a decade. I'm 14, 5 and 1. I've hit 72% of my picks. My college picks hit this weekend. and I've been taking a ton of dogs. By the way, I've already got my picks for Thursday. Friday, I already looked them up this morning. A lot of tasty dogs out there.

I picked the Titans and the Raiders. Whitlock in the morning said, who do you like? I said, Titans Raiders. He said, those are terrible picks. But he did tell me Arizona was going to lose. But I also picked last night. I went three and two this week. I took the Saints because, you know what I've told you,

I think Teddy's good. I think Teddy's fine. So we had a winning week. We're hot. It won't last probably, but it's been fun. where Colin was raw. I really laid into Matt Patricia when he got a job as a Detroit Lions head coach. He's a little bit of an unmade bed, a hat on backwards.

And it's just like, dude, there's not a lot of presence there, you know. But I got to tell you something. They didn't have their best corner yesterday, and I haven't seen Patrick Mahomes struggle like that against anybody. I don't think he struggled all day like that against New England. Patricia is smart. Listen, they had Patrick Mahomes down to a fourth and eight. Patrick picked up nine or Detroit.

wins the game. So listen, whatever he's doing, we always knew he was super smart, but I thought, you know, the presence, he's a little bit unraveled, but he's done a great job. I'll tell you this morning, I don't want to be Minnesota in that division. I'd love to be Detroit. They've had a really tough schedule, and they're playing really good football. Where Colin was right. New England is leading the NFL in six defensive categories. Now, some of it is who they're playing, but I told you during the offseason, I said, listen, I'm being told by people inside that building, they think this defense could be really, really special. And it's got a ton of depth.

They're not playing their top two draft picks right now defensively. They're barely playing. They are teaching them the system. Then they unveil them by year two. They do everything well. Now, again, they're not playing great teams. But when you've literally had 85 possessions and you've given up a score on like three of them, They are on their way, and I don't think it's going to end anytime soon.

If you look at the quarterbacks they face in the next month, it's people they could dominate. So the defense is exactly what we predicted. They're a running team and a defensive-led team, not a Tom Brady-led team, and it's very clear Belichick's been ahead of the curve on that. Where Colin was wrong. For years, I said about the Atlanta Falcons. I like their owner. I like their GM.

I like their coach. I like their quarterback. I'm not sure if I like any of them right now. Outside of the owner, Arthur Blank. Atlanta's a mess. They got rolled at home. I've watched them play twice this year where they don't even look like they're prepared.

They get down two touchdowns right out of the shoot against Minnesota. Yesterday against Tennessee, Atlanta was awful. Dan Quinn's in trouble. They lead the NFL in penalties. For years, I thought Atlanta was one of these well-run teams. You know my rule.

If I like your owner, your gym, your coach, your quarterback. If they're all B-plus or above, you can compete for Super Bowls. What has happened to Matt Ryan? There's no more special left. I thought he upgrades. offensive coordinator. They got rolled yesterday at home. They don't even look close to New Orleans.

Where Colin was right? We said the Saints are going to be fine. The Saints are going to be fine. We're not on McClems and stuff yet. Oh, that's Baker. I said the Saints are going to be fine. 20 starts. He's 14 and 6. New Orleans has weapons. They have a good old line. They have an excellent defense. I think they're going to go. I think I predicted four and two without Drew Brees. last night was classic. They didn't ask Teddy to do a ton of stuff. By the way, the last couple of times, the Saints and the Cowboys have played,

the games have looked the exact same. Remember the game last year? So we never, listen, we never thought that Teddy was that big of a drop-off from Drew Breeze. And I love Drew, but Drew can't throw the ball down the field anymore, and that's Teddy's weakness. But in terms of mobility,

Teddy's probably a little more mobile than Drew Breeze. I think they're both smart. They're both coachable. I think Breeze is more finely tuned situationally. But the Saints are kind of what we thought they would be. I picked them last night to win. I thought they would be fine without Breeze. And in that division right now, where I don't trust Tampa, Carolina, or Atlanta,

it looks like they should be the team to beat. Where Colin was wrong. Clemson's struggling, man. They are, they are. Again, let me put the context here. They're undefeated. But if you ask me the best teams in the country, I thought Clemson had a chance to be historic offensively.

Trevor Lawrence is unbelievable. Offensive line is NFL guys. They may have the second best receiver in the country. They may have the second best running back. But they were fighting for their lives against North Carolina this weekend. I mean, they were fighting for their lives. Trevor Lawrence has eight touchdowns and five picks. Right now, the best team I've seen is Bama.

The second best team I've seen, maybe Auburn. Oklahoma could be third. Ohio State, fourth, LSU. I would not put Clemson based on what I've seen. If I was a voter, I'm not. But if I was a voter, I'd have Clemson at six. I just, I just, the offensive line really struggled. Now, here's the thing.

I've seen this with Dabo Sweeney teams where they just look like, you know what, they struggle in September and October. Deshawn Watson also had some mild September, so I don't want to overreact here. Where Colin was right? One of the things I love about the NFL, three words, just win Sunday. It solves all your problems.

I said it last week. just go win Sunday. Cleveland goes from Greece fire to first place in the division. And as of this morning, Baltimore's offense, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati are a mess. Cleveland looks like easily the best team in the league. Just win Sunday.

By the way, Philadelphia 1 and 2 injuries, Carson Wentz not popular, beats Green Bay. Now we're all like, myself included. I think Philadelphia is the best team, arguably in the NFC. Baseball in the NBA do not give you this urgency. because you have so few games in the NFL, games mean more, and you can really turn the narrative around just by a great performance. I mean, if you're Cleveland this morning, you've got to feel great about it.

You have the best defense in the division, the best pass rush, and Nick Chubb allows Baker to Mayfield play like Baker, Mayfield should play. Sprinkle the ball around 24 throws, play with some composure. Where Colin was wrong. I don't know what to make on James Winston. I thought he had terrible judgment in college. He's a turnover machine, and then he walks into L.A. yesterday. I mean, he's just ridiculous.

I mean, he's just 120 passer rating. Now, I'll tell you this, Mike Evans is about a good receiver as the NFL's had. But, I mean, I, you know, there's just some things in this league. I can't get my arms around. I don't know what to make it, James. I mean, I've always said, he's big, tall, and strong. I mean, you'll watch him play games, and they'll have four turnovers, and then they'll have three throws, and you're like, oh, Lord.

He's a beautiful thrower with the football. Now, he got Bruce Ariens, and Bruce is really smart. So maybe the whole time for him, it's just but he didn't have the right coach. But they're two and two this morning. And they're going to New Orleans this weekend. I wouldn't count them out. That is a big strike offense, and James look fantastic. Where Colin was right?

Kirk Cousin stinks. I don't get it. I mean, he's my size. He's not athletic. He can't throw the ball down the field. I don't get it. I just, I don't get it. I didn't, I didn't, you know, I mean, I guess maybe he was a slide-up grade over Case Keenham, but $28 million.

I just don't see it. And it's funny, because Minnesota has great fans. And every time I criticize him, you know, after they win, I'll be like, so what? Remember the first game of the year he had 10 attempts and I'm like, and they won? And I'm like, that's pathetic. Like Minnesota's coaches are telling you, we just don't even trust him. And they won. And Minnesota fans were like, what are you saying?

I'm like, 10 attempts? Coaches are telling it. They only want the ball in his hands. Even Adam Thielen called him out yesterday after the game. At some point, you're not going to be able to run the ball for 180 yards, even with the best running back in the NFL. And that's when you have to be able to throw the ball. You have to be able to make plays.

You have to be able to hit the deep balls. You have to do that because otherwise it's too easy for teams to just tee up and rush the quarterback. Thank you. By the way, the bear's backup quarterback. The Bears' backup quarterback was better than Kirk Cousins. Chase Daniels. Wasn't he?

I mean, it looked like to me. He was better. Trubisky was better. Chase Daniels was better. Kirk was the third best quarterback on the field yesterday. Where Colin was right? The four biggest baseball contracts.

Wah, wah, wah, wah, none made the playoffs. They finished 122 games back combined. In fact, the Nats were 11 games better when Bryce Harper wore. left. The Phillies finished at 500. These contracts are predictably awful. No baseball position player is going to be worth $30 million. I guess you could make it work financially upstairs, but I mean, it makes teams lobsided. Unless you're the Yankees and have a payroll that just

lasts forever, it's a rainbow that never ends. You know, Mani Machado, 30 million bucks a year in San Diego, well, but they got a great farm system. What does it matter? Mike Trout, Manny Machado, Nolan, the kid, Aeronado, and Colorado, and Bryce Harper, none of these work. And I'm not sure, because you have to spend so much time with guys in baseball on the road, I'm not sure it's good to have a guy making 35 large in the locker room. I mean, seriously, if that guy's not picking up every beer and steak, there could be animosity. I think they're terrible.

I don't like long contracts. Could you show me one that worked? Could you show me one? John Carlos Stanton, Miami. They had to get him out of town. Canoan, Seattle, Joe Maurer, Joey Votto. Could you show me one that's ever worked? I mean, we don't want to pay running backs in the NFL,

but I can show you that Zeke helps the team win. Show me one baseball contract for 10 years that you're like, this was worth every dollar. We got our money's worth 0 for 4 again this year. Trent Dilfer's around the corner. Odell Beckham didn't get a lot of targets, It's only had two catches. What does that mean?

Trent Dilfer, love having him on. Tori Holt, Super Bowl champ will join us today. So a couple Super Bowl winners in our second hour. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what

happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action, with stories told by

people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never.

ever seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. that man,

Hell get the flying, he running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker. You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

This week, we've got a good one for you on Thursday night football. Jared Dogger. and the Rams take on Russell Wilson and the Seahawks and a huge NFC showdown. It all starts at 730 Eastern 430 Pacific on Fox NFL Network and streaming on Prime Video. I can't wait for that game. Russell Wilson made a play yesterday that made no sense. Did you guys see the one where he was running and he flipped it off to the left and it was perfectly thrown for a diving wide receiver?

I'm not sure anybody in my life can make that play. He and Steve Young have did things and I'm like, all right, that's just not going to happen on the planet again. He made one play. Russell's so good. He just made a couple of plays yesterday. You know, Arizona's hoping Kyler becomes Russell. Good luck with that.

Stuff he knows, top of the list. Vicks Synex nasal spray starts working within seconds, lasts up to 12 hours, a couple of sprays, breathing easier. Nothing works faster. Vic Synex nasal spray use as directed. One of my favorite moments of the week. He played in the NFL for a decade and a half. On a Super Bowl, a Pro Bowl.

I covered him for a couple of years. Trent Dilfer via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Now the first season coaching Lipscomb Academy Head Coach. They had to buy a week, so he just screwed her. round all week and they got a big one coming up Friday. All right, let's start. I did like the Saints last night because I thought Teddy can manage. He's a smart guy.

He can manage what I consider to be a great coach, a great back, a good receiver, a good old line, solid defense. But let's talk about DAC here. What bothered you? What were you okay with? Because, you know, no Drew Breeze, you'd think Dallas would go in and win that game. What did you see? I think the Cowboys left some plays out there, but DAC was still pretty efficient.

You know, Dak's not the one that fumble the ball. Jason Linton was, Zika Elliott was. So I thought Dak managed his side of the ball pretty well. He played at a fishing clip. They got to be able to run the football in early downs. And that's who the Cowboys are, no matter who their quarterback is, their formula is to turn around and hand it to Zeke and get those fishing yards on first down to set up the big chunk plays in the play

action game. And because they weren't able to run the ball consistently, they weren't able to create those downfield chunk opportunities. So they got kind of caught up in this. completion game and and Dak did a nice job with that. Again, he's not the one to fumble the ball in fourth and short. He's not the one to fumble the ball in the middle of the football field after a big pass play. So sometimes we put a little too much on the quarterback when they don't punch in the end zone enough. But you got to go look and look back at the whole 60 minutes and realize that

there's some other guys on that Cowboys offense that let back down. Yeah, I'm watching a couple of throws here. He made a, he threw a couple of dimes in here down the seam. Those are not easy throws. I think this is one of them right here. No, that's not one of them. There's one after that. But, I mean, again, I think your point is, this is a nice throw. He made some throws. We can't just blame Dak.

Now, I watched Cleveland yesterday, and Baker Mayfield's 6'0 when he throws fewer than 31 times. He's got a losing record when they ask him to do more. I watched Cleveland, and I thought, finally, they're not paralyzed by getting OBJ the ball. They're giving the ball to Nick Chub. And I don't know how that sits with OBJ, but I like their offense yesterday.

You. get his. I think in the NFL, and I get it, there's some, there's some aberrations this, you know, teams that can throw up 45 plus times and spread you out and, you know, it sizzling flashed all day long, but balance is what you're looking for. And it usually starts with the dot back, usually starts with the guy behind the quarterback. You got to turn around, you got to hand the ball off. You got to puncture the middle of a defense. You got to force defenses in a defined looks. And then as a quarterback, you got to play on rhythm. That's going to be Baker's best recipe. That's, that's going to be the Brown's recipe. Baker Mayfield, for all his heroics, when plays breakdown

and creating offense on his own, creating space, he is at his best when he plays on rhythm. If you go back to his college career, the game that got him in the most trouble was that Georgia game, the playoff game, because they took him out of rhythm. When he was on rhythm in college, he was unstoppable. So far in the NFL when he plays on rhythm, he's very, very good. When a play breaks down, we remember him spinning out of stuff and creating all these great plays. But more bad things happen, the longer the play goes for Baker Mayfield. If you want to look at a metric on Baker Mayfield, look at time to throw. He will be more successful to lower that number is.

You know, maybe I'm overstating it because you played with a top five defense ever. But there were stars, Trent. You saw him every day at practice. McAllister, you've got, you know, Ed Reed, you got Ray Lewis. Stars. New England, Dante Hightower didn't even play yesterday. I mean, there's no brand, there's no Legion of Boom, there's no First Ballot Hall of Famers. But this all say, everybody can tackle, everybody runs pretty well, they never get beat over the top. Is it just about who they're playing? Because you've seen an all-time great defense.

They don't look as scary as that Ravens defense. So what do they do? that's so befuddling for quarterbacks? All great defenses. I'm not willing to put the Patriots yet into that top five of all time. Let's tell the year plays out, although I'm very impressed. But all great defenses have a few common denominators. Number one, they don't give up big plays. The Patriots don't do that.

Number two, the very physical up front of the front seven. They can make you play one dimensionally. The Patriots can do that. But here's the biggest thing. Go back and look at those great defenses and look at the coaches coaching them. Look at these Hall of Fame coaches. that had their fingerprint on the XO. Well, guess who's got his fingerprint on the XO of the Patriots defense this year?

Bill Belichick, Shiana retires, Flores goes to Miami. Bill is taking an active approach into the defense. All of a sudden, it's the best defense we've seen from the Patriots in years. I mean, he is the greatest coach of all time. You can't really argue about it. And now he's devoting all his intellectual property to the defense. Watch out NFL. So I think the headline of today is very simple.

The Patriots offense played bad. Tom Brady played bad. And yet they still beat a good team with defense and special teams. Tom Brady's only going to play bad once or twice this whole year. He just had one of them. If this special teams and defense can carry you, watch. I don't see how they lose a game if they continue this pace defensively and with their special teams. This is actually a great point, folks, as Trent just mentioned,

because Brian Flores left, he's had so many losses in the defensive coaching staff to Trent's point. I didn't think about this. Bill's had to kind of take the team over defensively. Well, he is, you know, he's Bill Belichick. So, and that's always been a specialty. All right, two more points. I said, I can not have an opinion

on Kyler Murray. He literally had 14 college starts, and he was more of a baseball guy than a football guy. I see something there, but part of it is, I think he's learning how to play quarterback, not NFL quarterback. I think he's learning how to play quarterback. I like, well,

what I see, but he's got no starts, Trent. Bro, I like our conversations better when we disagree. I think most people do, but we're on the same page here too often, so maybe we need to come up with a different topic. I agree with you. Dwayne Askins, Kyler Murray, 500-ish attempts in college. Now you look at a Baker Mayfield, 1,500. You look at some of these guys that come in the league and they're having success

because they threw it a lot. Yeah. They played a lot of quarterback. They had a lot of opportunities to be the quarterback in practice. Being the quarterback takes time. Some of these guys are still learning it in the NFL. I think Tyler Murray is going to be a superstar. I do think, and I said this when he was drafted,

they have to figure out how to apply NFL protection schemes to their air raid system. Otherwise, he's not going to last very long. But once they get their run, run action protection scheme thing fixed, and he gets more reps underneath the belt, I think he's got a chance to be a Russell Wilson type player, a Steve Young type player where he's lightning in a bottle and your hair is going to be on fire watching them play. But give these guys some time. They have limited opportunities being the quarterback in college. Finally, the Rams running game is non-existent.

They asked Jared Goff to throw 68 times. But the mistake they made to me, Trent, they signed Todd Gurley a year early. And now he's not Todd Gurley, and they had to get rid of two offensive linemen. And this offense is just not as dynamic. I don't know. You can't pay another running back. I mean, is this just what the Rams are going to be? Offensive line is middle of the pack, running game non-existent.

Sean McVeigh, outsmart everybody. Is that what they're going to be? No, I think that, well, I think they have to recalibrate. But before we panic on the Rams, I think when you have his talented skill position, guys as they have on the perimeter is really easy to fall in love with throwing the football. I get all the points you're making, but I also think it's not a chance. Sean McBey at his root is a run, run action guy, not a dropback guy. So I think they will recalibrate after the debacle yesterday.

They need to protect their deets. It could be a very good defense when it's not on the field all day long, right? So they have to recalibrate. They got to get back to running the ball between the tackles, setting up their run, run. Actually, got to change the launch point more instead of drop. straight back. They got longer sustained drives, get their quick screen game going again. I think they need to go back to like the beginning of last year from an offensive mindset. I think if they do that, they're still talented enough to win a lot of games and being contention in the NFC.

Lipscomb Academy head coach, Nashville, Tennessee, their biggest game of the year coming up. Trent, great seeing you, my man. Thanks, brother. Always fun. All right, good stuff. Trent Dilfer. By the way, guys, do not use your girlfriend shampoo. Use your own. Dove men plus care available at Walmart. Use your own. Should I go to Joy or a break? We'll take a break. Be back after this. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapid. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin.

Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, I got the ball like, after you go through a training camp with that I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom. want you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Tori Holt, a seven-time Pro Bowl, or under Super Bowl champ. Greatest show on turf will be joining us before the end of the hour. Discover Card Key matchup, Saturday. Iowa at Michigan, go further than ever with a Discover at Miles card. Match for new card members only. They match your first year miles, so 35,000 becomes 70,000.

Discover.com slash travel. All sorts of stuff. Tori Holt around the corner. Good stuff from Trent Dill for Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Wayne Haskins saw his first NFL action this weekend.

Didn't go quite as well as he'd hoped. He took over for Case Keenham in the second quarter. But he finished 9 for 17 with 107 yards and three interceptions in the Redskins 24. Three lost to the Giants. But despite the four start, the rookie quarterback is not losing hope for his future. I just knew that my time would be coming and when it did come and decided to be ready for it and didn't execute the way I wanted it to. But, you know, the good thing about it is it hurts and it's going to be brighter a day tomorrow.

I don't want to win. I'm going to win. Whatever it takes to win. we will do that. We're going to change that. Everyone won some games and I'm going to be here for a while, so he used to see any smile up here. He still looks like young. Like he still looks like a baby.

But he got thrown into the situation, and this is not the best situation for him. Owned for a worst start for the Redskins since 2001. And of course, not shockingly, Gruden is not named a starter for next week, week five against the Patriots. By the way, nobody's quite sure if Brun is going to be there. a story came up yesterday that Gruden could be fired if they didn't win that game.

So again, what are the bad teams have in common? Bad owners. Dan Snyder's a bad. Now, he may be a great businessman. He's a bad NFL owner. I mean, look, I do not understand the purpose of firing a coach like Gruden in the middle of the season. By the way, we know he's pretty good because look at the guys he hires. He's had like Sean McVeigh and, I mean, like, he's had, he's, he's,

We know that Gruden can spot talent because he's been able to create these great young coaches. Well, look, what's the purpose of firing him in the middle of the season? What are you going to do? So you're just saying the season's over five weeks into the season, these first four games. Like, I understand O and four is not the start that you want, but what is he working with here? And what do you expect? Like, Dwayne Haskins is brand new. Like, he is.

One year starting in college. Kyler Murray, one year starting in college. Exactly. Like, you can tell, looking at him, he is. He is a rookie. Like, let him have time to develop. And why would you fire the coach five games into the season when you just got Dwayne Haskins? Now who's going to develop him?

It's a mess. That's madness. Like, I understand it's not the start as you wanted, but just pump the brakes a little bit. That said, Daniel Jones, 2&O is a starter in the NFL. And they had the Vikings at home next week. So that's actually an interesting game. What's the spread on that? That's an interesting game.

So the Giants are at Minnesota? Yeah, they're at home. They have the Vikings at home, I believe. Yeah. That's an interesting game. Yeah, Vikings at home. That's an interesting game. I'll tell you what, if the Giants beat Minnesota with all that personnel,

Shermer and Daniel Jones got a little parade in Manhattan. That'll be a huge win for the – Where's that game at, John? That would be a – It's a home game for the Giants. That is a – that's the biggest home game for the Giants, it feels like, in a long – The spread is odd. Four?

Giants getting five and a half. Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. I may have to just tuck that one under the blazing five umbrella. That's a lot of points for Daniel Jones. Yeah, that is. It's a lot. That is.

But the Vikings were a disaster this week, so, and they'll be on the road. So, Odell and Marlon Humphrey got into a fight on the field yesterday. OBJ threw a punch at the Ravens Corner. He was retaliated by pinning Odell to the ground and choking him. Humphrey said he apologized to O'Dell after the game, but Browns, yeah, it's really, if you haven't seen it, it's brutal, brutal video. Head coach Freddie Kitchens thinks the move deserved an ejection.

He said, I saw what you saw. He was getting choked on the ground. They get away with that because it's O'Dell. I'm going to be on the phone with Al Riveron when I get on the bus. Yeah, that should have been a player ejection. Yes. You can't choke other players. Look, punches are thrown, again, I don't, they're wearing helmets.

So where's the punch going to land that it's effective? I've never understood that. I guess it's just rage. But your punch is not going to be effective while someone's wearing a habit. You can't be choking guys out in the field. But yeah, you cannot. Like this is a terrible look.

And he is right. Like I feel like he got away with this because it's O'Dell. It is effective. It's an interesting way when you can, Josh Norman did this. When you can get O'Dell, you need to be physical with him because you're not as fast as him or as athletic.

So Baltimore's whole thing is we're just going to get, talk trash, be physical. And it kind of did take O'Dell out. a little bit. That is a way to get a hell out of the game. Yeah. Like we've seen that. There's enough evidence of that,

but that is the case. If you get him emotionally going, you can distract him at least. But that was a terrible look. He should have been injected. Finally, Clemson barely escaped an upset versus unranked North Carolina this weekend. Tar Hills failed on a two-point conversion attempt

with a minute 17 left in the game to seal the win for Clemson. Davos-Winney acknowledged after the game that UNC put up a great fight on Saturday. It really did. It just won them games. You know, just the rhythm of the game, the flow of the game, and, you know, mistakes add up and lead to missed opportunities that you don't get in a ballgame. Give them credit.

Again, they outplayed us for most of the game. Much more thankful that we can learn from it with a win than a loss, and we're very fortunate that we were able to win the game. Listen, Clemson's not nearly as good on offense as I thought, and Auburn is shockingly good on defense. Auburn, to me, is the shock of college. I could make an argument that two best teams in the country come from the same state. Alabama won Auburn 2 this morning.

I'm not sure that's not true. Auburn looks so fast defensively. God, they look good. They're coming in at 7th on the AP Top 10 this week. Who is Auburn? Auburn, yes. So Alabama is in the one spot right now over Clemson, Georgia, and Ohio State moved above LSU with their 48-7 win over Nebraska. That looks about right.

And Notre Dame moved over Florida, jumped up. Florida with their 35-20 winner the UBA, which is a great game also. Clemson's too high there. And I would put Auburn higher, and I would put Clemson. I would flip Clemson and Auburn. And that would be my... Clemson at seven?

Well, they haven't looked good. I mean, just my eyes. I mean, you got to play well at some point. Their offense is a turn over... I mean, that was not a great performance, no, but... No. I don't know if I'm taking a down to seven. Auburnish.

And Auburn's schedule is brutal this year, and they're winning all of them. I mean, I still really like Oklahoma, too. Yeah, well, it's hard not to. They're just... They're so. much fun to watch. Incredible, yeah. Good stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lai. Well, coming up now, a guy that was seven of his 11 years in the NFL,

he was a pro bowler. He was on one of the first great offenses in league history. Tori Holt, the Super Bowl champ, a six-round pick who ended up being magical. Now, you know, it's funny. So I'm watching. So you went from, in your career, Tori. you had the legend Dick Vermeel and then you went to a Mike Martt right now. So you go from Mr. Experience, college pro to the kid Mike Marte. So

here is, Baker Mayfield goes from Hugh Jackson to Freddie Kitchens. So, I mean somewhat learning on the job. So I want you to go back. What is Baker dealing with having a coach who's smart but has never done this before? Well, they're both learning

at the same time. You know, this is a Freddie Kitchens. He's a a lot of situations that he's not been in. That's right. So he's learning, they're all learning for the first time. And they both have this chip on their shoulder, just kind of this kind of this attitude, this revital, which is great. You like that.

I think it's good. You have to have that to play. Yeah. But there's also times, too, as a head coach, particularly as a head coach, you have to be aware everything was going on. And you have to bring calm to the situations, but also ignite and excite your guys to go out and do that job. It's a hard job.

It is. It's a hard job to manage. And he's called in plays. That's a ton. So it's a lot that happens during that time. You know, for instance, like Coach Vermil, when he was the head coach, the year that we won in Super Bowl, he was the head coach. And we had an officer coordinator, Mike Martz,

we had a defensive coordinator, that special teams coach, Frank Gans and those guys. So he could watch over everyone, but also give his expertise about what he was seeing involved, what he was seeing in the game. He would go sit in meeting rooms and all of the special teams, offense, defense, and by the way,

March is a little like Freddie Kitchens. he had some emotion. No question. But coach was really good at what he did. I mean, he was, and I'm not saying Freddie because it's not, but Coach Marks was very good at offense. And he was really good at getting the best out of guys. An overall head coach, he had to learn those things.

I think each year he got better at that. The first year, obviously, coming in being an office coordinator, you're focused on your offense, and that's what you get locked into. Right. Whereas at head coach, you have to look at everyone. You have to manage everyone. You have to make sure that everyone is doing their job

and holding everyone accountable. And that was the difference of Coach Vermil. He had an opportunity to do that. And he did it really, really well. Tori Holtz joining us, a Super Bowl champ, seven-time pro bowler. You know, when I watch Odell Beckham Jr., there does appear to be a game plan.

Get him worked up, get physical, get in his face. You like Odell were a different level athlete. You just literally popped on television. What do you like about Odell? And is it bother you that sometimes you can get in his head if you're physical? Well, you know, he's, you know, that everyone is physical. Then you can be playing in the national football league if you didn't have a level of physicality. Right.

I think he's out to continue to prove that he's tough. We know you're tough. You know, guys want to try to get into your head to take you away from what he does really best. And that's get open and catch the ball. He does that better than anyone. One of the best guys that does that in the National Football League, period. Odell Beckman can get open. not only can he get open, he can catch it,

and then he has run after the catch. That's what he needs to be focusing more on. That's what Freddie Kitchens and that staff needs to be focusing more on. Get him the ball early and let him go. Get him to the ball. You can get it to him early and slants. You can get him to him on comebacks. You can get it to him on double moves.

Odell can run routes. So I want to continue to see him run, continuing to see them put more offense in there where he's able to get open and showcase what he really can do. In terms of the back and forth with players, guys are going to continue to try him. As long as it's working, they're going to keep doing it. And I get it that he has to prove a point that he's a tough dude,

but there's more important things, O'Dell, that you need to be doing, that your team needs from you. Did guys just be trying to be a tough guy to show someone that you're a tough guy? Did guys get in your face ever trying to do that? What did you do? I went out and bombed on their ass is what I did. It was my language. I went out and played football.

I played football at a very high level, so that for four quarters. So that for me did the talking for me. And that was times where I engaged and said some things. But for me, it was more about going out and letting my play do the talking for me. Listen, you're a receiver. You want to throw the ball. Yesterday, the Rams made Jared Goff throw 60. Too many times.

Too much, Colin. I mean, to me, when I look at that, Tori, that's two games. Too much. I like golf. Me too. But I almost kind of chalk it up to, well, yeah, of course he had turnovers. That's 68 throws. Is there a Super Bowl hangover

The Rams? I don't think so. What's the issue you do? I just think they have to continue to for one, and it's the elephant in the room. 28 rushing yards. They were, when they were playing elite football, particularly offensively,

they were running the football, they were throwing the football. That was total balance with this football club. They don't have that now. Jerry got through the ball 68 times. He's coming off a record. deal in regards to a new contract, get it. We know he can throw the ball. But in the situation

and how they are, there's other guys, too, on that office that they can continue to, in my opinion, to get to more. I would like to continue to see more from the tight ends. I would like to see Devin Henderson, the kid that they draft the third round out of Memphis. Yeah, I keep waiting for that, too. Yeah, I think he would be a tremendous addition to the offense, giving them a different tempo coming out of the back field.

And he's good on screens. Yeah. You remember when we watched them, when we watched them, We watched the Rams last year against Kansas City, we saw all those empty sets with Gurley and they were throwing it to him. Henderson can do some of those same things. And if you're not going to do it with Gurley,

and that's a big part of their offense. Oh, that was a huge part. Then let Henderson try some of those things. So McVeigh's going to have to continue to work outside of some of the things that he's comfortable with doing. And one of the things, I was here in the summer covering the team, and I said to a couple of guys, I didn't say it public, but I said,

you think y'all would be up to, like, going more four wide receivers, five wire receivers, just kind of. They're like, nah, you know, we're 11 personnel. This is what we do. Now, to explain to the audience, what 11 personnel. 11 personnel is three wide receivers, a tight end and a tailback. And that's what a lot of teams in the NFL.

And that's what a lot of teams in the NFL run. But the Rams, and I'm not telling coach what to do because what he's done has worked. And they put up 40 points yesterday, by the way, too. By the way, as well. You can bang on golf, they put up 40. But they have, personnel where they can go four or five wire receivers.

They can go more empty set. They got a young kid and the Henderson guy. There's more to this offense that they can do. It's coach finding a way to continue to tap into that. In my life, great defenses have generally had three or four. Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Sarah Goosa, McAllister. New England doesn't have any star power and you can't move the ball in them. So when you look at their defense, now I do like their corners.

I think McCordy and Gilmore are excellent. Gilmore has been elite for a long time. But I mean, is it... McCordy is good, too. Yeah. Good leader as well. What do you make in New England's defense? I mean, where's the star power?

I like it. It doesn't matter. Doesn't? The star power is in the results. The culture. The culture, the results, their first in every statistical category that comes along with defense. Their special teams were special yesterday.

And you have to, I go back to when we want to Super Bowl in 34. And when we were winning divisional championships and played in Super Bowl 36, we were good in all facets. Our defense was good. Our offense were good. Our special teams were good. And we all relied on one another.

And at some point doing games, when the offense is not going, the defense has to step up. Even your greatest show on turf. Did you have a bad Sunday? Yeah, we had some days where we were not executing in the way we were. But Tony Horn would get a return for a touchdown. Or Ozarkin would get a great return to spark the offense. So special teams, math. matters. And you saw that yesterday with New England and how they were able to win that game.

And offensively, you're saying yourself is if we can get it together, we can continue to get it together, be better, offensively, be more efficient score touchdowns, along with this defense and the special teams that we have. Yeah. Who's not to say these guys couldn't be right back in another Super Bowl? Tori, you like all these young quarterbacks? All these guys? I love it. I think it's great for the game. So do I. I think it's great for the game. And by the way, this next quarterback class, they say there's four guys that'll play. So like this is going to be one of the stronger quarterback classes. I think guys like Garner Minchu,

look at what he's, the things that he's doing in the pocket, how he's taking advantage of his opportunity. Daniel Jones is way better athlete than people thought. Daniel Jones? And, you know, I live in North Carolina, so I saw Daniel Jones for all those years he was there at Duke. And each year he got better and better and better. Shouts out the coach David Cutcliff

in the job that he does with the program down at Duke and developing guys, developing quarter. back developing men, and you see that in Daniel Jones. He's a mature guy. By the way, you're legendary. You have an injury to your finger and you're one of the great receivers of all time. It is a lot of hands, yo. It is kind of different. We got 20 seconds here. Hashtag all hands. You can catch me on Instagram and Twitter. All hands. All hands. I love guys that catch the ball with their hands. Everett had a catch yesterday. Gerald Everett. Tough, tight, window throw by golf too, by the way. All hands grab. So when I see those, I like,

like to retweet or Instagram out all hands. Big shout out to the guys that uses their hands to catch the ball. I'd love to have you on again. You're always welcome here. Tori Holt, an all-timer. Go to YouTube. Look up as highlights. An all-timer.

Hour 3 coming up. Just starting. Shows rolling. It's the Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Go to MDrive for Men.com today and refine your prime.

Shed some weight, some pounds. It's got boosted. Burn, boosts, T-levels already in your body. He's Tony Gonzalez. Look how serious he looks right there. He just yesterday, you were passed by Larry Fitzgerald, second-most receptions. You were number two. You're now number three.

I know you don't have any bitterness because you love Larry Fitzgerald. Love Larry. Love Larry. I shot him a text after the game. He told him congrats. He wrote me a nice long text. I was like, man, you got some time with your hands. But just, you know, all respect to each other.

And I couldn't happen to a better guy. Just a classy, classy, classy guy on and I'll feel probably the best hands in the history of the NFL. He's got great hands. is and he works hard. Larry's the kind of guy. I always felt this about Russell Wilson. If you told me that Russell or Larry in 15 years were the commissioner, I'd be like, yeah, I could totally see that. The kind of global travelers played the game and they just take care of their bodies.

So, yeah, Larry is all class. All right, I'm going to show you a piece of video. Vontes Burfect has been kicked out of the NFL for the rest of the season. He's had a reputation as a dirty player. Did you play with dirty players? Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know what? Vantes is kind of that throwback player

where when I first came into the league, that hit is absolutely illegal. And that's what they're going for. That's why the game has changed. So we already know that. But in the rules of today, obviously you can't do this. This guy and look at him when he's going off the field.

He doesn't care, obviously. $4 million in fines this guy's had of missed games and he finds. And he's still doing this. Obviously, there's something in his brain that's not clicking where he's just not taking the choice. Well, I don't like the idea that I just got kicked out of the game. and I'm smiling. Like I, I, I'm a team guy.

So I, that, I would feel as I ran off the field, damn, I just, I'm letting my team now. I'm not there for my, I need, I need Vontes. By the way, the Raiders defense, they need everybody they can get. Like he's, it's not like offensively where they're, it's moving. So, so you did play with, you knew guys that were dirty. I played against guys. I think probably the history, the dirtiest guy, a Bill Romanowski.

I mean, I don't know if you remember that guy. Oh, I brought him on the show. Getting punched. And you say when he do interviews with him, you know, he's got a little, He's intense. Some screws. Some intense there. Some screws are, you know, a little loose.

I couldn't stand the guy when we played. Just flat out did not. You didn't like Bill? I don't know how he is off the field, but on the field, you know, spitting in people's face, hitting, going low on people, going to people's legs and stuff. You can pull up the tape. You've seen it all punching you after the. You didn't like it.

Didn't like it. He did that. There's a couple other guys out there that, but he was the dirtiest player that I ever went against. I want to show you a piece of video. on Odell Beckham yesterday. The Ravens tried to get in his kitchen, tried to get him worked up. One guy choked him, should have been ejected. I don't know if you've seen this video yet. It is becoming kind of a game plan against Odell. Chatter, get physical, rile him up, and he only got two catches. Yeah.

I mean, what did you, first of all, do you think Odell's letting people get in his head? Yeah, absolutely. He lets all that stuff. That's why he couldn't handle New York. New York ate him up. That's why I had to get out of there. It's too much, too many eyes on them, too much pressure. Guys talk to you, though, didn't they? Yeah, they try to, but I mean, I'm not talking back. That's the thing about it. It's like, all you do to me is you give me fuel.

You start messing with me. I might even go more quiet. And when I did go verbal, which happened a couple times where I lost my cool, that's when I started playing bad. And so as I got older especially, I'd be like, man, I'm not even, don't even try. I would look at literally, I'd beg, don't even go there, man, like talking to. I don't even know your name, first of all. You probably want to be in the league in a couple of years.

years. So I don't need this from you. And that's what these, a lot of superstars have to go through that. But he's not handling that. So you did go through it and you did lose your cool earlier. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when you're young, you do that stuff. You're fired it all fired up. You want to, you want to like, hey, don't disrespect me. Don't say that. And you're giving me shots. Like, you know what? You got next play. Go get even. And just that that was my mentality. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to get you now. And if not this game, the next game, it's coming. I'm not going to forget about it. By the way, in your career, well, first of all, what was the best you ever faced?

Baltimore? Probably Baltimore defenses, Pittsburgh defenses. Ed Reed, McAllister, Ray Lewis. Red, yeah. Okay, but that defense had stars. Hall of Famers. New England's defense doesn't have any.

Yesterday they were great. Dante Heitauer didn't even play. What is it? Because it's not like they've got Ray Lewis at linebacker. They don't have McAllister at corner. They don't have Ed Reed at safety. Yeah. What is it they do?

They got some good players now. They have good players. And that is the whole New England Patriot football team is good players. Not those all pros, not the perennial all pros, not the superstars. You won't see that on that team because first of all, they don't want to pay those guys. But they got Jamie Collins. They got McCordy. They got Patrick Chung.

Stefan Gilmore. Those guys are good players. And they're so disciplined. They're so smart. That's the New England Patriot way. They are always in position. They're ice cold where if you make a mistake, they're going to come get. you. And I remember

playing against them. And it seems like everywhere, every strategy that we're going into the game that we think we're going to do, those guys, there's always somebody there. You told me that Belichick, you didn't have good games against Belichick. I had my worst games that I've ever had against. I've also had my best games, too. But if he chooses to take

a player out or a scheme out, it's going to get taken. How did he take you out? He just, everywhere I went, there was two people where you bump, okay, now we're going to bump him off the line, and then we're going to have one person over the top and one person underneath. So they just said he did on multiple occasions with you. Tony Gonzalez is going to have fewer than five catches.

And the way they do that is it's like, I think number 88, that was my number, when I'm going through whatever I'm going to end up on the field, if you're in front of Tony, you're going to hit them as hard as you can off the line of scrimmage, just to impede them and then do your job from there. So now you're slowed off. The quarterbacks are like, oh, shoot, it just throws off the timing. And they know that. That's what they do.

That's why young quarterbacks will have a hard time. And then another thing, too, is the halftime adjustments that they make because they got smart players, experienced players. So you can make big adjustments. You can make big adjustments. And those guys don't make mistakes. The way they, the culture around there. That's why this team, to me, it's the best defense.

It always is. That's why that's the difference between them and my chiefs right now is you got to give the New England Patriots the head, the heads up because they have that defense. Let me say this about the chiefs, though. Mahomes didn't have the greatest day. They're on the road. You know what, Tony? They won.

See, my takeaway on this whole league. is New England could not. New England had 11 first downs and beat a good team on the road. Kansas City, Mahomes had an off day, and they beat a good team on the road. I watched Kansas City. I was like, this is what good teams do. You just don't get the fireworks show

every week. Sorry, folks. The weather gets cold. Guys get hurt. What did you make at Kansas City? I think exactly what you said. I'm kind of excited for them. Good teams win those games. When we started out 9 and 0 in 2003, when we went 13 and 3 when I was with the Falcons.

There are a lot of games you can look back and go, man, we almost lost that one. That was a close one. And the losing teams are the same thing. Man, we almost won that one. We still lost. Good teams do this. And that's something special about Mahomes.

And collectively, Andy Reid, I mean, they find a way to win those close games when things aren't going well. Because Mahomes didn't play that well yesterday, compared to what he's on. I mean, he's still at 315 yards. Yeah. But it wasn't Mahomes. It wasn't.

I still like Deck. I was saying earlier today, if you're waiting for Dak Prescott to be jaw-dropping or breathtaking, that's a you problem because that's not what he is. Here's what I always say about Dak. When's the last time the Cowboys got rolled? They're in every game. He doesn't make the dumb throw that almost every young quarterback makes.

He never makes that. In fact, the knock on him is he's a little cautious. And I'm watching him last night and I'm like, first of all, Amari Cooper cannot get, Lattimore's on him like a glove. They have no running game. And I'm like, here they are. Hail Mary to win it in the Superdome.

So I'm like, I look at Dak and I'm like, my expectations are he's good. He's not jaw dropping. And that's the thing about where we're coming into the season. We were all saying, okay, wait, he turned down 30 million a year. Like he's not, there was a lot of people that are saying he's not even, well, he should be happy to take 30. And then he played those first couple games against teams that don't. won't have winning records. We went over the schedule that they've had so far. It's the first real test they had, and they lost.

But I like Dak. I like him a lot, and I'm rooting for him for a lot of different reasons. But if he doesn't have a running game, like a lot of these young quarterbacks, the play falls off. The same thing with Lamar Jackson. Like, he played okay yesterday, but the running game wasn't there. By the way, Jared Goff had no running game. No running game.

And these guys get exposed. I mean, that's not exposed. They're just not quite there yet. And I think that's going to get there. but he needs that. He needs Zeke to go out there and get some yards. You can't get 35 yards on 18 carries or whatever it was with that offensive line. Once you move the line of scrimmage, then they can throw those.

So Jared Goff got no running help, made mistakes. Dak got no running help and just doesn't make mistakes. It's not his fault went and fumbled. It's not his fault, Zeke fumbled. So my thing with Dak is, you know, what's the old saying? You lose more games in this league than you win. Dak never loses a game for me. Yeah.

And if guys are open, he hits them. But I never, there's so many bad throws in this league where you're like, oh, Lord, that never delivers that. And I'm, by the way, that means he's probably going to need a better running game and a defense than a Mahomes went. All right. I tell my wife all the time. If we sit in the back of the plane, lower your expectations from the front of the plane,

and then I'm happy. I'm only unhappy when I'm like, where's my cocktail? I'm in road 29. I'm not getting one. Yeah. I'm getting an apple juice five minutes before I'm. I'm landing. That's all I'm getting. I like that. It's very, you know, take what you get.

You get what you get and you don't throw a fit. Well, you don't sit in the back of the plane, so you can't. Never. Just playing. All the time. You don't sit in the back of the plane. You got your own plane. I am a man of the people.

You and Jimmy Johnson. You guys fly home on your little private jets in on that stuff. My home's eight minutes away, Tony Gonzalez. Tony Gonzalez, great seeing you, bud. Joy with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So we have some injury updates on Mitchell, Trubisky, and Sam Darnold.

Ooh, I want to hear this. Trubisky had an MRI today that revealed he has a disc, he dislocated his shoulder on his non-throwing arm, but he won't need surgery. So he will travel with the Bears to London, but is unlikely to play against the ringers. Hopefully. But you won't need surgery, which is good. So it's just a matter of rest in rehab. They haven't given a person.

week-long perspective on it yet. They play the Raiders in London. So they can use Chase Daniels? Yeah. Chase Daniels did a nice job. 195 yards, a touchdown. 101.1.4 pass a rating. Also, Adam Gase announced that Sam Donald has been cleared for non-contact practice today.

He is still not 100% and his status is unclear for week five. They had a buy this week and they play the Eagles on Sunday. So it'll be a day-to-day situation for Sam Donald. Hey, by the way, John. The number on that's got to be double digits. I would not play Donald. I'll just tell you my theory on this. You cannot have mono, not be clear to play,

and then six days later face Fletcher Cox. That's not healthy. That feels like our season, we have to win this game. What is the line on that, John? 13 and a half. I'd take the Eagles. I think this is going to be an awful game for the JIT. I think they're rushing him back.

I really do. And they shouldn't. If he wasn't ready after this, after this by, just wait until he's ready. Okay, if I literally had a spleen issue in mono, and then a week before my job, I wasn't clear to play medically, outside of being a radio host, you would not be able to be tackled by Fletcher Cox seven days later. That's a big mono spleen issues, not cleared, get run over by a Mack truck. And they could make it worse.

Like, if they rush him back and he's not 100%, he could get sick again and then be out for more weeks because he could just, He just make it worse, so they should wait on that. Also, Bradley Chub is out for the season for the torn ACL. Wow. That just came out. And Josh Allen is questionable for next week's game against the Titans at the Titans because he is entering concussion protocol. I saw that, yeah.

He, uh, yeah. By the way, is look this up, Goulet later. The tight end for the Detroit Lions, he landed hard. Yeah. Is he going to play? Because he landed hard. Were you a guy that jumped, Tony? When you were running with the ball and you got in space, were you one of these guys

that tried to jump over people? I think it's the stupidest thing. I've ever seen on a football. I saw the guy. Oh, I don't understand why. Because it's stuff like that. It's going to happen. And everybody's, now they're getting out of the way.

You see people and then they're going to start flipping you. You better stop jumping over people. It almost never ends well. It's become a trend. Oh, it's great for us. But it's like, I saw two guys this week and I'm like, what are you doing? Six, nine guys in the air. It's like, what are you doing?

I mean, I wouldn't do it, but I'm also not going to get in the field with 300 pound men and have them chasing me around and tackle me either. So the Rams suffered their first loss of the season to the Bucks yesterday. Yesterday, Jared golf threw for over 500 yards, but he also turned the ball over four times, which Tampa Bay turned into four touchdowns. And after the game, Sean McVeis at his team is ready to learn from this loss and move on to Seattle. I think it's really a wake-up call for everybody. Ultimately, it's about finding a way to win football games.

We didn't do that today. We make no excuses for it, and we relish the opportunity to move forward the right way. Because that's the only thing that we can really control is that we play again on Thursday. We're going to find a way to look at ourselves and see if we can play better, and we get an opportunity on Thursday, and I think that's a blessing for us. Boy, Rams are hot. Talk about two teams.

James can never get my arms around. I don't know, Joy. You know, they drafted a running back, the Rams did, and they've yet to really play them. I think it's time to play them. They got no juice out of that running game. I mean, I don't want to doubt Sean McVeigh's coaching style or plan,

but it kind of feels like this is not, the numbers are against you when you ask Jared Gough to throw that many times. Do you know, when I grew up, there was huddles in football. You didn't have 68 plays in the game. You asked him to throw 68 times. In fact, that's got to be top 10 ever, right? That's like Canadian football.

It's not a number you see often. And the four turnovers kind of reflects that. Now, obviously, the Buccaneers turned those into four touchdown. So that helps when you capitalize on turnovers. And then, you know, the Bucks had a game where they do that thing where they inexplicably are great and then next week

they won't be able to score seven points. Tennessee Titans Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They will give twice a year you'll turn the TV on and be like, oh, that's the best team in the NFL easily. Right. If I'd have told you the Rams will score 40 and get destroyed. By the bucks. Right. But they

have to fix their running game. It's just this is not sustainable in any way and it's not going to work and they're not going to get anywhere having him throw that many times. Finally, the Lions gave the Chiefs of Scare on Sunday. Patrick Mahomes pulled out the 3430 win for Kansas City to remain undefeated. But Detroit's defense did a good job, stopping him. They ended his streak of 14 straight games with at least two touchdown passes, which is pretty impressive.

And he was able to lead the Chiefs down the field with two and a half minutes left, which set up the game-winning touchdown run. But I'm very impressed with the Lions this year. You got to give them some credit. Yeah. Because we really did not know what they were going to be, and that was an impressive. I know it's a loss, but. It's an impressive loss.

Baltimore lost to Kansas City, and I was like... And looked unimpressive. No, I don't know. I think Detroit was missing their top corner, too, Slay. So they didn't have their best corner against Patrick Mahomes. And if they stopped him on a fourth and eight, he got nine. Detroit wins that football game. Yeah, I mean, Mahomes had the moment.

He made the play in the moment. But, I mean, Detroit literally was a yard away from winning the football game. Right. This I'm saying, like, I've been impressed with the Lions so far this year, despite how the games have turned out. Like, they've been impressive. They have. And for the record, this is a really good division, but I think Minnesota is now the fourth best team in that division. I think it goes Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota. That's a good division. Minnesota is a good fourth place team.

Yeah, but also, do not look great. Oh, God knows, unwatchable. Totally unwatchable. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. We called the three-word game where we take every NFL game and we think three words, you know, be succinct, get right to the point. the three-word game on Best for Last coming up on a Monday. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Great to have you in. All the NFL games, Thursday until late last night, Cowboys and the Saints, all can be described very succinctly.

All games had sort of a theme. And so we do this every Monday to close our show. We go look at every NFL game from Thursday until last night, the three-word game. Here we go. Eagles Packers. Packers defense exposed. First of all, Philly was four for four in the red zone. That's a problem. They rushed for 176 yards against Green Bay. That was a problem. And the Packers led the NFC in sacks. They didn't have any sacks. They led the NFC in takeaways. They didn't have any takeaways. Green Bay's defense exposed against Philadelphia's offense. How about Chiefs Lions? No touchdown,

That's a real thing because Patrick Mahomes was about to break Peyton Manning's all-time record for two touchdown games and Detroit was missing their top corner and he didn't have a touchdown pass at all. And I don't know how good Detroit is, but they've been in every game. Matt Patricia was the brains next to Belichick considered the smartest defensive guy they had. And so far, it has worked in Detroit for Mahon for Matt Patricia. Trisha. Brown Dravens found a formula. Jarvis Landry, eight catches, dependable wide receiver. I can do that every week. Nick Chubb, a terrific young running back from Georgia, 20 carries 165 yards. I can do that every week. And by the way, they played great defense. I can pack that in the luggage every week. Play good defense, run the football. Jarvis Landry doesn't get into pushing

matches with guys. OBJ is talented, but emotionally and physically, I can't build around OBJ. Patriots bills didn't need Brady. He was actually bad. Josh Allen sack four times, pick three times. By the way, some key statistics that New England's very good in. Sacks. So now they've always been good at getting pressures.

Now New England's getting sacks. They have forced the most three and outs. That means they're making teams really uncomfortable. Yards per drive. New England leads in that too. How about Panthers Texans? All Christian McCaffrey. So Carolina had 297 yards.

He had 179 of them. He leads the NFL in several categories, including scrimmage and rushing yards. He made a spectacular catch. He can catch. He can run. He is dependable. I'm not sure anybody works as hard for their yards as Christian McCaffrey. His dad was tough as an $8 stake as well.

So son got dad's DNA there. Titans Falcons. Done with Falcons. First of all, is there ever been a team that starts this bad? They had 58 total rushing yards. You know, they always end up with a million yards passing. Matt Ryan yesterday had 400 yards passing. They didn't have a touchdown.

What does it mean? Dan Quinn's in trouble. I'm done. They lead the NFL in penalties. Matt Ryan in a veteran defense should not lead the NFL in penalties. I'm done with them. Chargers Dolphins. Melvin Gordon watching.

Listen, he returned Thursday. Smartly, they didn't play him. And one of the reasons they didn't have to play him because Austin Eckler had over 120 yards rushing. This is a team that's got a so, so offensive line. I think they need multiple running back. So Melvin Gordon watched. I think he'll play by this week. Giants Redskins.

Welcome back, Giants. A five-year hibernation is over, and the New York Giants are back. By the way, Wayne Goleman, they're running back, had a nice game. The offensive line, now that they have a mobile quarterback, looks capable. Evan Ingram. Do you know that he is the first giant quarterback,

Daniel Jones, to win his first two giant starts since 1979 and Phil Sims? Good for Daniel Jones. Raiders Colts. Gruden knows offense. Listen, they rush for 188 yards. Darren Waller has 33 catches through four games. I got to say this.

They're a little bit of a mess. I don't agree with all their decisions. But the Raiders, offensively, they're clever. They've got reverses. They've got speed. They've got a good receiver. Their offensive lines better. Gruden knows offense.

Buccaneers Rams. Rams defense was goffle. Oh, Lord, just name the number. When you give up 55 points, by the way, Tampa Bay did not have a good offensive line. They got a star receiver, but they don't have necessarily a dependable running game, and that's what you get. Rams do better defensively. You can't tell me how great Aaron Donald is and Marcus Peters is and Akeeb Taleb is and Brockers is and give up 55 to James Winston. Seahawks Cardinals, don't crush Kyler.

He's been sacked 20 times. I mean, give me a break. He's only played one year of college football. He's got 14 college starts. What do you want from him? He's got a battle line. I think he's learning how to play football. And I mean that.

And I think Cliff Kingsbury is learning how to coach NFL football. I can't have a definitive opinion on Kyler Murray. Lamar Jackson, three-year starter. Carson Wentz, four-year college starter. Russell, four-year starter. Mahomes, two-and-a-half-year starter. and got to sit on the bench. This kid started one year in college.

And, oh, by the way, was more of a baseball prospect than a football prospect three years ago. Vikings Bears need a refund. I mean, can you bench Kirk Cousins? Because honestly, I wonder if you're getting to a point where you're going to lose the locker room. Like Adam Thielen called him out yesterday. The guy's averaging.

With the best receiving corps, by the way, I will argue this. They have the best receiving core in the league. and if you say receiving core one tied in and one running back they have the best skill people in the league Kirk cousins has thrown for three touchdowns and 180 yards average that is like not even remotely acceptable jaggs broncos the min shoe fits gardener minchew i don't know he's completing 69% of his throws he's got a hundred and seven passer rating i don't know what to make of it he's got a good arm not special He's athletic but not special.

He's decent size but not special. Could some of this be Leonard Fernette's running well and nobody's got tape on him? I mean, I don't have an answer for this. I don't see it as a long-term great fit, but whatever. Cowboys Saints, lack of daction. Yeah, I mean, listen, pass-a rating wasn't very good. He did make a couple of great throws, but some of this was. They didn't have time of possession.

Teddy Bridgewater gives to Alvin Kamara, Michael Thomas. Teddy scrambled for a number of first downs. I mean, you're watching it here. Some of this was, that was a bad sack by Dak. He took a bad sack. Hey, listen, Jason Whitten fumbled. Jason Witten doesn't fumble. He did.

Zeke fumbled. Not really, but the replay, they gave it to him. A lot of this was Dak did not have any rhythm. Dak didn't have a ton of time to throw down on his deep zone once. And Teddy Bridgewater kept moving the chains and picking up first downs. So, you know, we can bang on him. As I said earlier, if you're waiting to be, if you're waiting for a jaw-dropping moment with Dak Prescott,

then that's kind of, that's on you. Then you just have, you're sitting in the back of the plane and you think you should be getting cocktails and, you know, lamb chops sitting in row 39 in economy. Dak's not spectacular. But he keeps you in games. He's always good at the end of games. And that's what you got last night.

So Eric Mangini, Trent Dilfer, Tori, Tony Gonzalez, all stopped by today. Tomorrow we have Peter King, the herd hierarchy. I'm not, I tell you the game that I just, I don't know what to say about it. You know, Baltimore, Cleveland's a very interesting game because do I think Baltimore's that bad? No. Do I think Cleveland's going to play like that and run like that every week? I think they can run, but I don't think they'll be quite that good.

The NFL is so much about, you can really change talking points in three hours. You can't do that in baseball. Like, right? You can't have a nine games. losing streak, win a game and we all go, I forgot about your lousy bullpen. In the NBA, you can't go on a road trip, lose the first six, win the seventh, and we go, great road trip. But I mean, the Cleveland Browns are in first place.

And tonight you're going to watch the Steelers in Cincinnati play, and neither's any good. So, I mean, Cleveland season this morning, I'm like, they got the best defense in their division. They got maybe the best running back in their division. It looks pretty good. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments

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