The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Dak Wants Too Much, Raiders Dysfunction and Rookie QB’s to Watch

Episode Date: August 13, 2019

Colin gives his thoughts on why Dak Prescott possibly wanted $40 million a year, the young QBs he’s looking forward to watching, the Oakland Raiders dysfunction, and what he feels LeBron James must do in Los Angeles. Guests include Doug Gottlieb, Eric Mangini, and Matt Chatham, and Bucky Brooks. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast imagine an olympics where

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Live in Los Angeles, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. One more day by myself, lonely in my house before my wife and family return. Joy Taylor is joining me. Joy, how are you? I'm great. You've been doing a lot of binge watching, though, right? I have watched so many baseball.

I watched one last night about the Portland Mavericks. It's hysterical. You've got to watch it, folks. I watched one a couple days ago, screwball, which is all sorts of crazy Miami baseball A-Rod stuff. Watch some good documentaries, watch a lot of TV, and as the football season gets close. I want to start with this in our number one. I'm listening to all the DAC stuff and demanded $40 million, which has been disputed. It doesn't really matter when you get into a contract negotiation.

you know, there's all a bunch of stuff thrown out there. You throw out numbers. It doesn't matter if DAC did demand $40 million, okay? It doesn't really matter. That's not what he's going to sign for. And when you get into contract negotiations, you just throw stuff out there. I've been out there.

You ask for stuff you know you're not going to get. You ask for stuff you think you're going to get. You ask for stuff you're pretty sure you're going to get. He's not going to get $40 million. Who cares what he asked for? The bottom line is where does he land? Okay. But the way the cowboys are handling this is not nearly,

as good as the way the Philadelphia Eagles handled this. Remember the day Carson Wentz signed his deal? We were like, oh, we didn't even know they were working on it. And they signed it, and they'll make $32 million a year, and it doesn't even start for two more years. So by the time Carson Wentz is in the middle of his contract, you're going to be saying, not a bad contract. That's a reasonable contract.

But I like the way Philadelphia did their business. And by the way, in the NBA, I care about your stars. Where do the stars go? I like the Clippers this year. I like the Lakers this year. Where do your stars go? But in the NFL, you know how in baseball they always talk about you got to be good up the middle? Catcher, pitcher, shortstop, second base, center fielder.

In baseball, you got to be good up the middle. In the NFL, you got to be good in four spots. Owner, GM, coach quarterback. This is why I think the Philadelphia Eagles will dominate their division and dominate the Cowboys for the next year. Jeffrey Lurie, the owner, Howie Roseman, the GM, Doug Peters, and the coach, and Carson went, to me, you're all B plus array. And if you're a B plus array in the big four spots, owner GM coach quarterback, you are a Super Bowl contender. This is why I find the Dallas Cowboys, for me, has always been a very difficult team to evaluate.

Jerry Jones, I think he's a good business man. I don't like his football stuff. Stephen Jones. I actually think he's the best of the four, but I'm not sure he always has the right call. Jason Garrett. Jack Prescott. Like him, don't love him. they're very difficult for me to evaluate.

In baseball, you want to be good up the middle. Got to have the all-star catcher, all-star shortstop, good second baseman, the athletic center fielder, and somebody that can throw the pill on the mound. But in football, it's all about the big four. Owner, GM, quarterback, and coach. In Dallas, this is why I struggle with Cleveland. Owner in Cleveland, hard pass. Coach Freddie Kitchens, no idea.

GM John Dorsey, loud, ego. He doesn't care about character, not my favorite. Baker, talented. He may be the best of the four, actually. You may be surprised for me to hear that. Baker may be the best of the four. He may be the best over the next 10 years of the four. Baker, and I have my certain reservations about him,

though I think he's talented. If you look at me and you listen to my show, I always like the teams, not always with great quarterbacks. That's not true. I don't like New Orleans this year. They got a great quarterback. I don't always love teams with great quarterbacks. quarterback's. I like teams that I like the GM. Bruce Veach in Kansas City. Chris Ballard

in Indianapolis. Belichick largely running New England. Howie Roseman in Philadelphia. Tom Telesco with the Chargers. By the way, the Rams, I live in Los Angeles. I've pushed back on the Rams a little. I think they overpaid massively for Brandon Cooks. I don't like that contract. And they paid Todd Gurley a year early. They didn't have to. I didn't love that contract. And I didn't say it after he got hurt. I said it before he got hurt. Why'd you pay them a year early? I think the Rams, when they eventually have to pay Jared Goff, will have to overcome those bad contracts.

This is my problem. Watch how the Cowboys are handling the DAC situation. And then watch the Mahomes deal in Kansas City. You know what's going to happen one day in the next year? We're going to wake up. I'm going to come to this show, and he's going to have signed a deal, and nobody will have talked about it. Bruce Veach will have signed a deal.

We're like, oh, they already got it done. just like Philadelphia did, just like the Colts and Chris Ballard will do eventually to Andrew Luck. Okay, I don't even know the Chargers deal with Philip Rivers. Like, the way the Cowboys are handling it is why I always find them the hardest team in the NFL to evaluate. The owner, I know he's a good businessman, but I think he's too meddling. Stephen Jones is the best of the four, but I don't know if he always has the final say. Jason Garrett, I like, I think he's more than capable, but not top five. And Dak, somewhere in the middle of the NFL, although I do think he has a leadership quality.

I don't think you can dispute that at this point. So the way the Cowboys are handling this is the reason I like the way the Eagles handled their business with their quarterback. And it's why I think they dominate the division for the next 10 years. You're big four. Let me segue to this. I am not a day trailer. I do not check my 401k regularly. I don't try to time the stock market.

I do dollar cost averaging. Every month, send a check. I am a long-term planner. Okay, that's how I think. That's how I was raised. That's what my dad was. I don't worry about how I feel this morning. Did I have a good month?

When I check my TV ratings, I don't go day to day. I go year to year. maybe at most quarter to quarter. So I don't fall in love because somebody has a good week, a good day, a good press conference, a good pass. Fans are highly emotional. That's what they do. Joe Namath is the best New York Jets quarterback of all time. For the record, met him four or five times.

Could not be a nicer guy. I mean, he was a great quarterback. He's a better dude. And he's always around the Jets. And he was talking to Sam Darnold yesterday. There was a press thing. and he talked about what he liked about Sam Donald, his expectations for the year.

When a championship, when he got here, I liked what the coaches and the players had to say about him. When I met him, I liked his demeanor. He gives you a good vibe, a good feeling. Physically, he can play as well as anybody. He just needs to keep polishing himself, and the team needs to polish up. I love Sam Darnold.

In the last three years, there have been 11 quarterbacks drafted early. I'll list them all for you. Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Baker, Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson, Mitch Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes, Deshawn Watson. There are two, I love. Patrick Mahomes number one and Sam Darnold number two. I think over the next 12 years, I'm not a day trader. I don't check my 401k regularly. I do not time the stock market.

Patrick Mahomes over the next 12 years will be the best of all those quarterbacks. Sam Darnold will be the second best. But Colin, last year means nothing. Pro football focus. The last month, the last four games of last year, Sam Darnold was the highest graded quarterback in the league. with nothing to work with. He is also the youngest week one starter

since the NFL and AFL merged. He's a baby. Two years younger than Baker. Lot fewer college starts. That's why I don't care what happens in week two when the Browns face the jets. I don't care what happens in week six. Of the last 11 quarterbacks taken,

Mahomes to me will be the first ballot Hall of Fame. legend. Sam Darnold will be the second best. I do think Deshawn Watson and Baker have assets I really like. But I don't think Deshawn is a naturally brilliant thrower. I worry about his injuries and I

don't trust Houston up front protecting him. And Baker's in a chaotic organization. We have no idea about Freddie Kitchens. The Browns usually mess stuff up. And Baker does have some character stuff and ego that does concern me over the course of 12 years.

I know. Last year. What about? It means nothing. Be patient. Aaron Rogers sat for three years. Patrick Mahomes didn't play for a season. Jared Goff was awful for a year. You watched it on hard knocks. All you day traders in Cleveland. All you check my 401k regularly people. All you, I time the stock market. That's not who I am. When I look at all these 11 quarterbacks, I'm looking who over the course of 12 years is my best buy? Because I'm not selling these stocks. I'm buying and holding. Mahomes 1, Darnold 2. Coming up next, something to think about in terms of DAC's contract. Again, I don't care about the $40 million. That made waves yesterday.

Who gives a rip? Again, I've been in 12 contract negotiations. You ask for stuff you have no chance. You ask for stuff you hope you get. And you ask for stuff you think you're going to get. Whether that's true or not, it doesn't matter. That's not where they're going to land. And frankly, it's pretty smart business to ask high.

So if he does sign for 30 million people, be like, oh, my God, you got a break. It was 40 million last week. That's the way business operates. I got no problem. That stuff gets floated out. Who knows who floated it out there? The Cowboys could have done it to, you know, leaked it to a respected reporter to say, look at this is outrageous what we're dealing with.

Who knows who leaked it? It just doesn't matter. It's like Twitter. It just doesn't matter. In the big picture, he's not going to land close to $40 million. But coming up next, something that does concern me on the dollar figure and why the dollar figure needs to be precise and exact for DAC, and that's coming up. Listen, do you know, on average, it takes 45 minutes, almost an hour for police to respond to a home security alarm.

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Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight, From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Some industries, it's so competitive. It's about inches. Some industries, less competitive. It's about yards. You can make mistakes. In the AFC, it's about yards. You have four really, really elite teams at the top.

New England, Kansas City, Indy and the Chargers. But by the fifth team, Cleveland, really? Baker's in his second year, rookie head coach, youngest roster, bad history. Houston! Worst O-line in the league, no current GM. Quarterback last year had to be bust because he had a punctured lung. You don't really have a fifth team. Baltimore, they don't pass much.

Excellent at the top. But Houston got off to an 0-and-3 start and won their division. New England experiments in September. The AFC is about yards. You can make mistakes. There's some really, really bad teams at the bottom of the AFC. You can get off to a sluggish two and three start, and then you play in order Denver, Oakland, Buffalo, and make up a lot of ground.

The NFC is about inches. It's too deep. Every Sunday matters. You can't have a three-game losing streak. You certainly can't start the season 0 and 3. Let's look at the top NFC teams. It's hard to have an order we would all agree on. I think Rams, Eagles are absolutely the best two teams.

After that, you could argue me in and out of any position. I'll go Green Bay, Saints, Vikings. I like the Niners more than most, bears, cowboys, falcons, seahogs. I don't even put Carolina on there, and I wouldn't be shocked if they're a playoff team. Atlanta, by the way, gets mentioned by nobody outside of Atlanta. In the last three years, they've been to. a Super Bowl. They should have won it, have an NBV quarterback, and are 28 and 20. And they're a throwaway

team in the NFC. Nobody outside of Atlanta talks about Atlanta. Last year, I had them preseason getting to the Super Bowl until they fell apart physically. So the AFC is a conference of yards. You can start O and 3. You may have a three game AFC stretch where you just face garbage. Look at Tom Brady's division for the last 15 years. You can write down 10 to 11. wins and not even think about it. You and I both know the Chargers and the Chiefs are going to finish in some order

one and two in the AFC West. It's not debatable. It doesn't work that way in the NFC. That's why DAC's contract matters. It is about details. It is about manipulation of a hard salary cap.

I mean, think how good Aaron Rogers and Drew Breese are. Hall of Fame First Ballot. Nine years, neither has been to a Super Bowl. Nine years. Tom Brady, you almost feel like you're having a hot take if you don't put him in the Super Bowl in the AFC. This is why contracts matter. You need to have extra money to sign that second corner and that second pass rusher

and that blocking tide end and a really dependable second running back. This is not the AFC where you can start O-N-3. You can have a bad contract. You can kind of butcher a draft pick. It's not the reality of the conference. The NFC is a crapshoot. Last 16 years, 14 different quarterbacks have made the Super Bowl. In the AFC, it's four, and one of them, Peyton Manning, is gone.

All right? One of them is gone. And so when I look at this, DAC reality, it's going to matter what he pays. It's going to matter. You can't go 36. I don't think you can go 34. I don't think you can give up Byron Jones and sign him.

I don't think you can split those two great young linebackers up. I think you need both. I mean, if you look at the AFC right now, there's a couple of young quarterbacks I like. But it is run by a lot of older guys. Brady, Philip Rivers, Big Bend, they'll be around in the end. In the NFC, it's Drew Breeze and a bunch of young guns. And that's what Dak's going to be facing the next 10 years if he's in Dallas as their starting quarterback.

Chris Carter talked about it this morning on first things first. It's funny. Nobody wants to embrace Jared Goff. Everybody now is talking themselves into Just Pay Dak. Be careful. Well, Jared Goff, to me, is a better quarterback than Dak. He can throw the ball. He has more variety.

He has a stronger arm. He has better timing, better anticipation. Dak, his numbers suffer. When Zeke is out of the lineup, his numbers go down by 10 points. All right. Golf, that's not the case. As a passer, I will take him over Dak Prescott any day. Young coaches, I think the better young coaches, NFC.

Young quarterbacks, NFC. Better divisions, NFC. Game of inches, NFC. Joy with the news. No. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So as Andrew Lux's calf injury continues to linger, owner Jim Ursay decided to throw a little extra in the pot. It revealed there's a little bit more to it than simply the calf. Here he was on Sirius XM NFL radio.

All great. Everyone's had their questions about Andrew and that sort of thing. But I really feel very confident that he's going to find his way through this thing. Quite frankly, this is not even in the Achilles tendon. It's another area. It's a small little bone. But he's, you know, he's doing very well, and he couldn't be more excited for the season. Now bone injury now. Super. I just keep popping up over.

Here's the thing. You never want to throw anything extra into a ongoing situation with an injury with your franchise quarterback who has an injury history. is not only not participating in any preseason games, which wouldn't seem that dramatic if he also wasn't participating in any training camp practices and had been injured since April and has an injury history of lacerated kidney, injured thumb, concussion,

torn labrum, cap strain, and now a small bone issue. The one good thing I like, you are returning the same coordinators, coaches, O-line. They did add one receiver, Devin Funches, but it's a still, the thing about The Colts offense, it's young. There's a lot of young people. So it's like I like practice.

I mean, it's been my concern this entire time. Him playing in the preseason games is really, it's kind of irrelevant to me. Even if you do have young skill positions, they'll figure it out. Like you said, it's a game of yards at this point with them. But he's not practicing. And now it's gone from a calf injury that we've had three MRIs on. and you don't really know the severity of it, and it's lingering, and we're getting closer to the start of the regular season.

John, what's their schedule? What's the Colts early schedule like? I believe their first game is against the Chargers. Oh, great. Oh, you're right. I'm going to that one. That's no way to open a season. Oh, yeah, you were planning on going.

That's see Andrew Luck. So, by the way, their first... You may not see Andrew Love. So their opening game is against, as we've talked about, maybe the most talented complete roster in the NFL, and I think they're on the road. And that, what is it? Chargers,

Titans on the road, Falcons, Raiders at home, Chiefs on the road. Oh, Lord. Yeah, I'd get it buttoned up. Outside of that Raider game, that's a lot of pass rushes. Yikes.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, the problem is is he just added more to the speculation about how serious this injury is and they're only a little over three weeks away from the start of the season. So Antonio Brown is due back at Raiders training camp today. This, of course, follows an extended absence

that was caused by his feet, which are frostbitten, and his displeasure not being able to wear the kind of helmet that he prefers because the helmets have changed. And Bryant Westbrook recently sat with Adam Lefco of Leach Report and compared this situation to T.O.'s time with the Eagles. At this same attitude, the same aura around this team continues, it's impossible to win. To win in this league, you have to have everybody going in the same direction.

If you have one guy doing something totally different, and it messes up everything. I think in Oakland, a lot of the players support Antonio Brown because of his skill set. Also, he brings with him a culture of winning. Yep, same thing to you. They don't have that. And that's the problem in the locker.

I literally experienced it. Whether Donovan McNabb was right or wrong or some things, we supported our quarterback, right? And so when we had T.O. come in, we had half the room supporting Donovan because they were having a problem with each other. Right. The other half supported T.O.

Because all those things you just meant, he works hard. He brings it. He's a winning talent, the best in the league. I understand what he's saying. It is better in football when you kind of have one mantra and everyone's going in the same direction. That said, there's been plenty of examples of crazy stars and craziness going around a team and them being able to pull off a Super Bowl based off of talent. I mean, can we take a look at the 90s Cowboys?

I mean, is there a more legendary stories than came out of that era of football than the 90s cowboys? I mean, you have the 2002 Bucks. There's a few characters on that team. the 2000 Ravens, 91 Giants. I mean, there's plenty of examples of huge personalities, issues off the field, issues within the locker room, and teams being able to come together. I don't think it's a T.O. situation here because Antonio Brown is arguably the most talented

person on that team. And I mean, their center is the best center in the league, but where's the drop off from there? So if they don't win this year, you can't necessarily blame it on Antonio Brown. Oh, no, no. For 20 years, I mean, it's funny. For about 25 years, the Clippers with Donald Sterling felt independent from the NBA. Like they didn't travel as well.

The Oakland A's, this is before you were born. They had a guy named Charlie Finley, own the team. At one point, they had a college radio station doing their play-by-play. They felt separate. They were like an independent team in the Biggs. The Raiders for the last 15 years, Joy, have felt independent of the league. They have the poorest owner, the worst game day revenue. They hire two TV people to run it.

They tarp off the upper deck. Year to year, they don't know where they're playing. Antonio Brown actually fits their last 15 years of, like, fascinating, odd, mysterious, enigmatic weirdness. Like, he's not the problem. He is just, he's a symptom of what the Raiders have become. He's not the cause of them. Right, right, exactly. Like, maybe Antonio Brown and all this is a distraction.

But it's not like he's stepping into a with Tio, a Super Bowl-level team, and there's some division in the locker room. Like, what are the Raiders? We have no idea. There's a great example. What are they? No stars. Just kidding. Character matters.

Bluffing. I have no idea what they are. And with A, B, it's one mystery after another. I have no idea what I'm getting. So I actually think he fits the Raiders brand over the last 15 years, which has been chaos and weirdness. So finally, death, taxes, and terms. Tom Brady retirement talk. He can count on those three things.

Recently, there has been some questions about his future with the Patriots. He put his house in the market, then decided to take it off. Now he's saying it doesn't matter. He wasn't happy with his contract. He's saying he doesn't talk about it. But he's 42 years old. He's the oldest non-kicker in the NFL, and he is not ready to talk about retirement just yet. Do you still see yourself playing to 45, Tom?

Yeah, I do. I certainly hope so. It's a big commitment. And it's a lot of time and energy I put into getting ready for practice. post-practice treatment. You know, the mental part of the game is not the challenge. It's just really working hard to keep my body in physical preparation, physical shape. I'm certainly not a robot.

There's a lot of time and energy to prepare myself and my body to play. I love doing that, and I think that's why I've been very fortunate to be able to play as long as I have. Let us consider that he plays for three more years. Yeah. Let's just put that as an absolute in the universe, right? Do you think if he plays three more years that he ends up with the Patriots? Three more years. Yes.

Because I think two, he is with the Patriots. Three. We had this big discussion yesterday. Because so many of the college quarterbacks are coming into the NFL and working fast. Like I watched Trubitsky. I'm like, that's not an NFL quarterback. He got to the playoffs. There's not a lot of teams right now that are bailing.

Would the Chargers bail on Philip Rivers? No. For Tom Brady. I mean, with the Raiders bail on Derek Carr? I don't think right now they would. I mean, I think it's less about other teams and more about the Patriots. Like, do you think that the Patriots would keep, say in three years, he's taken a huge step down?

Like, I think he's going to be great again this year. Who knows what next year he is? There's a lot of variables in that situation. But three years from now? Well, you already said that to an absolute, so I can't argue. No, I'm saying, like, if he wants, like, he is saying he's going to play at 45 years old. Yes. So.

I think he is because I don't think crafts letting him go. And I don't think, and my staff totally disagreed, I don't think there's this bevy of teams lining up that if Tom went to the open market, they'd bail on their young guy. Now, Cleveland for a year, oh, they got a guy. And if Bruce Ariens and James work, oh, he'll get an extension. Jets now a dysfunctional. Oh, they have their guy.

Like Miami, you and I talked about this. Miami's about the only team you're like, yeah, they'd make a deal for Brady. But if San Francisco's who's there. Oh, they've got a guy. Almost everybody's got a guy now. Yeah, there's not a lot of desperate teams out there. There's not. I think he finishes with the Patriots.

I hope so. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly News. By the way, Doug Gottlieb joins us. He'll be doing a show from Cowboy Camp today. That'll be awesome.

That's a great get by you. You get to go up to Thousand Oaks where it's 142 degrees. Oxnard, a little past 1,000 Oaks. Is that much cooler in Oxnard News 1,000 Oaks. Wow. So we'll have hit the 1,000 Oaks. Rams camp, Chargers camp, and now Cowboys Camp.

That's great. Yeah, it's great access and all the teams, you know. It's what you get off air as much as what you get on air. No question. To total feel. I'll just share this with you from Rams Camp. Yeah. Jared Golf looks like a different dude.

Like, looks like we've been there three consecutive years. First year was first year with McVeigh. And just, you know, you watch him, now he carries himself, how he leads. He was still very much learning. Yeah. Last year, he looked better. You know, he looked like a starting quarterback. Like this year it looks like he's a dude, right?

Like it's his offense, complete control, smiling, but when it's time to lock in, very, very confident. Like I've seen that from Philip Rivers all three years, where it's without any question. He's the dude. His offense. And now Jared Goff has that same level of confidence, maybe even arrogance that he's grown into the role.

I kind of feel like we talk so much about Gurley and the other things. I feel like golf, he had a couple big boy drives against the Saints that they feel like proved he is their guy for the long-term future. And watching him at camp, he carried himself differently. So Doug Gottlieb's at the cowboy camp today. We were just talking about Brady just for fun. I mean, listen, he'll play two or three years and in New England. I don't, I don't, this whole, like he knows what he's going to do. We played tennis on Sunday.

By the way, Calhurt beat me at tennis, 7.5. By the way, just because I had fewer unforced airs. I didn't really win it. I lost less than him. It became like ping pong. We're like, no, you go, no, you go. Anyway, the point is this. I can't tell you how many times we've gotten together and you always have a different,

you know, I could do one more contract. You know, maybe I could do two or three more. Like, everybody thinks they know how they're going to feel two or three years from now. But the truth is, like, Tom Brady's saying, right now I want to play until I'm 45, yeah, he's coming off playing in two straight Super Bowls. Right. He's coming off feeling really, he feels really, really good. Like, talk to me.

in February if the season ended poorly. You know, like, I think he would have been motivated if they had they lost the Kansas Chiefs, but we would have looked at him completely differently had there not been the off sides penalty. He throws a third interception. They lose on the road. His numbers decreased as the season went on. I don't know if we'd have the same.

So the idea that three years from now, like, let's just get through this year. And I think that's what all parties are saying. Hey, I'm selling my house, not now, but we'll see. It's a one-year contract. Not now. We'll see. I think we have to be reasonable. We are in uncharted territory with Tom Brady at 42 years old,

leading the defending Super Bowl champions. We don't know when he's going to fall off. We just know eventually it does happen. Troy Aikman said this on Twitter the other day. Troy said, I think he can make 45 because he takes care of his body. But, you know, Troy said something that's true. Troy said, but when it ends at 44, it ends fast. I mean, Kurt Warner was great, took a hit.

And it's like, I'm out. Brett Farve was unbelievable. Unbelievable. Came back that extra year. And literally the Dome, the Metro Dome collapsed. Like, you know, I mean, look, Peyton Manning. Like, let's not misremember Peyton Manning's last season when they won the Super Bowl. Nine touchdowns, 17 interceptions.

Oh, no, he was a liability. Benched for Brock Osweiler. Benched for Brock Osweiler. And no one was, and they said he was hurt, whatever. He just, he was bad. Yeah. Fall off a cliff. You do very quickly.

All right, Gottlieb. We'll come back with Doug. Got a bunch of stuff. You know, you know what we'll talk about. We got the DAC thing. Darnold, I think, is the best young quarterback after Patrick Mahome. of the last 11 taken. All that coming up, it's The Hurt.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this guy walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I was saying this to start the show, Doug Gottlie, Fox Sports Radio host after our show.

By the way, he'll be at Dallas Cowboy Camp in Oxnard today, which is, you know, I think, I could be wrong. Tewy, don't you live up there? I think they have the best strawberries in America. They do have incredible strawberries. They have the best strawberries in America. Is that where that strawberry farm is? Yes. There's a legend.

I've always wanted to go to that. It's supposed to be, it's where all the restaurants in L.A., the good ones, buy their strawberries in Oxnard, California. Third favorite fruit. Pineapple, mango, strawberries. Ooh, this is a... If you actually would come in on a Friday... How is that your reaction to pineapple?

It's so hard to eat. It tastes like it's cardboard. It's so hard to eat. What pineapple are you talking about? You know you have to cut it, right? You don't eat it from the outside. Cattleup just dissolves in your mouth. It's so mouth-friendly.

Pineapple is so good for you. First of all, you didn't list watermelon. It takes way bloating. It's good for your stomach. It's delicious. Well, who cares if it's good for you. It's better for you than other things. You mentioned best fruit.

Like, he didn't mention watermelon. That's amazing. Raspberrys also in there. Watermelon is not very high on my fruit list. Wow, that's disappointing. I'll tell you. Put it in a blender. Watermelon flavored things.

It's kind of better than regular watermelon. By the way, put watermelon blender. Vodka Club soda a little watermelon? Yeah, watermelon. Watermelon and lemon actually is very good for a hangover. Anywho. All right. So we were talking earlier today that I'm not a day trader.

I don't check my 401k. I don't time the stock market. I buy stuff. Stocks for the long term. Same with quarterbacks. Tim Tebow won seven straight games. Mark Sanchez was hot for an hour. In the end, I buy stuff I want to stick with.

Here's the 11 quarterbacks last three years. And I said, Mahomes is my Hall of Famer, Darnold's 2. Then if I was forced to take a third, I'd probably go, coin flip, Baker DeShan. I'd take Deshaun because I do think eventually he'll get an offensive line, which is not a liability. And Cleveland scares me as an organization. But I would go, Mahomes won. Darnold 2 and probably Dishon 3rd. Who would your 3 be?

That would probably be them. It's interesting. Like, Deshawn Watson had some bumps coming off in ACL. Does anybody know they won 11 games last year? They were a division. Right? They won 11 games. And like, I get Jacksonville was crummy, but Tennessee was okay.

Nine and seven? Not bad. And the Colts were really pretty good and have a great quarterback. And they won the division. Yes. And they're the fourth largest market in the country. country and we never talk about them. Now, maybe it's because they're operating without a GM.

You know, there's other parts to the team. And they've let us down over the years. They can't ever step up. And when, like, Cincinnati, when they had Carson Palmer, you're like, you didn't really trust them to win a big game. I would hedge and I would say, boy, I put Baker right there in that discussion at three, just because. So you like Darnold more than Baker?

No, I like Darnold. Donald absolutely second. Like, Donald just is getting overshadowed because Baker yells the loudest and he's on a better football team. Donald's a better player. He's a better prospect coming out, and he has done nothing to lead us to believe otherwise. And I think the Jets have done a really nice job. You know, I mean, last year they had McDonan around him, who's the perfect older quarterback to help lead him. And now you get him Ryan Khalil, so he has the perfect older smart center to help lead him. Like, I think Donald's going going to breed the breakthrough guy.

I think that's the big challenge for the Patriots is, you know, yeah, you have all probably second year quarterbacks in that division, assuming Rosen eventually wins. the job and Josh Allen and now, and eventually one or two of those guys are going to hit, and that'll be the biggest challenge to the Patriots in that division. I would take Donald's second. I would probably think about Baker third. Deshawn Watson, I love his leadership. I'm with you on Deshawn, but Baker's a real.

And then Kyler Murray 5th, am I crazy to buy this Kyler thing, even though I am petrified of how little he is and how prone to run he is because there's no such thing as an old quarterback and there isn't really any such thing as a 5-10 quarterback, but if there's a guy, it could be him because he's so accurate. He's got such a good arm and he is literally in the perfect system. You don't need a good offensive line for that system, and they have a terrible offensive line. Yeah, I know, I don't have a 5 either. I have a 1 absolute, a 2-absolute, we can argue over 3-4.

You know, Josh Allen and Buffalo, I've got a couple scouts who tell me, they're like, listen, there's moments last year. Remember the Minnesota game? you're like, oh my God, he looks like Big Ben. But again, you don't know. They had a bad old line. They had no receivers. I think I need one more year with Josh Allen.

I think they can win with him, but I think it's a specific way in which you just can, you're going to have to live with the fact that he's going to have to throw downfield, and he's going to be inaccurate or he's going to have to run the football because he's a ridiculous, big athlete, and then play to your defense. I think you can do that in Buffalo, but I don't think he's empirically a good quarterback, right? Sam Donald's a good quarterback on any team. league. Pat Mahomes, a good quarterback on any team of the league. Mitch Trubisky, Josh Allen,

some of his guys can be good quarterbacks in the perfect system with the right fit. Doug Gottlieb is joining us. You know, we were, you know, one of the things about, you know, the DAC-Wenst thing. People say, well, Dax won more than Wentz. Winning is a very funny thing. Mike Ditka drafted Danny Whirful because he was a winner. Tim Tebow won seven straight, Mark Sanchez. You have to be careful about winning. Vince Young's first year with the Titans, they won a bunch of games. If it was just winning, you would draft Alabama or Ohio State's quarterback because they just win more. There is something about talent evaluation with the quarterback where, and this is, by the way, this is, Glenn Close doesn't have an Oscar.

Kobe Bryant does. That's winning in Hollywood, winning an award. Glenn Close is a superstar. Kobe Bryant won an Oscar because he had the right group of people on a project. Right. So when I look at DAC and Wentz, if you took 32 GMs and you said pick one, they would all take Wentz. Wentz was a number one pick. Now, there are injury concerns, and that's a real component here.

But when you, the DAC is winning thing. I think we're getting to a point now where we're overstating the winning thing. Andrew Luck won first three years with nothing, Doug. Nothing. That's got a lot of help here, right? No question. I mean, if you want to look at the numbers, you can. look at the paucity of 300-yard-plus passing games, right? And look at what they did when they didn't have Zique

and how much the offense changed when they got Amari Cooper. Look, I think the whole thing works together as an ensemble cast quite well. I mean, Tyron Smith, when he's been injured. Remember, they had issues in their offensive line last year as well. So when the line is right, when Zeeq is right, when Amari's right, he's good, he's fine. He's not elite quarterback. Again, this is kind of this. Do I think he's better than Trabiski?

Sure. Do I think he's that much better that he's 35 million a year? I don't. And I don't think anyone truly believes it. I feel like they're going to overpay him because he was so underpaid to be the starting quarterback of the Cowboys. And I think that's just a terrible philosophy to have. I don't understand that.

He's in the middle of the pack. You can absolutely win a bunch of games with him. But is he Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees? is he Carson Wence? No, Carson Wence was the MVP of the league. Then he got hurt. And they won a Super Bowl without him. I don't think that Dak Prescott has ever been,

or should he be in the discussion of MVP of the league? And I think paying him otherwise, it doesn't morally offend me. It's going to hinder their ability to be what they've been, which is a really good ensemble cast. Yeah, I mean, the NFL is a hard cap. The NBA, we did this a couple weeks ago. Joy and I were actually laughing. The NBA has got some.

many loopholes. Larry Bird writes that you can, it's a real soft cap. In the NFL, it's pretty punitive. Like if you, like I was talking about the Rams. The Rams, I think over, I think they paid Gurley a year early I didn't like. I think they overpaid massively for Brandon Cooks when they have two excellent receivers. They're going to pay for that when they pay golf. They're going to have to figure out a way.

They're going to have to get rid of somebody. And I think in their division and the NFC, that is rough. I look at, I wonder now, has the DAC thing, are we peaking now? Because all these young quarterbacks, golf's getting better. Tribisky will get better. Garoppolo is now in. I wonder, Doug, if this DAC so far, this is the peak of it. This is all the young athletic.

Look, it's possible. I also think that you have to factor in something you've talked about along this show, which is accurate. Jerry Jones is not getting any younger. And he sees Miami as a legit possibility, maybe even likelihood. You know, I got my tight end out of the TV booth. I'll throw him out there for one more year. I got Amari. I got Zeke in his prime.

I got the offensive line of prime. I have a defense that is good enough. I have a division where the skins are down, the giants are down. Right. Like that's four wins a year that normally are absolute dog fights. And now maybe I split with the Eagles, five wins in my division. When am I ever going to get that? So I agree.

Again, I would never consider him an elite level quarterback. But I do think that Jerry, in his own mind, thinks if we're ever going to do it, the time is now, and we can figure out a way to make the money work, but we just have to get all of these kind of ducks in a row. The crazy part about it is, for example, with Dak Prescott, they're really not under any pressure to give them a contract. If they don't, they can franchise them next year. He'll make $25 million guaranteed.

And if they don't have to that, they'll franchise them again, and it ends up being 50. So they can drive a hard bargain. I just don't think they want to because I think that that would take them away from their focus being Miami. and I think Jerry is, it's like Marissa Tomey and my cousin Vinnie, right? Her biological clock is ticking. Right, right. That's Jerry Jones.

Like, my football clock is ticking here. Let's get to do a Super Bowl. Yeah, no, I mean, it is weird with the NFL. I'm not a huge fan of the franchise tag for players. I think it's great. If I was an owner, I'd love the franchise tag. But you really do own Dax rights. You're in a great spot if you're the cowboy.

You don't have to pay him anything. And by the way, if you franchise tag him after this year and he makes 25, you're probably paying him $7 million less a year, which is the second corner and another pass rusher. I mean, if you're just talking about business. Well, look, there's ways in which you can move it around. I do think it's important, and we're going to dig in. We go to Cowboys Camp here when I leave here.

They do have a new play caller. Like, if everyone thinks that their offense was perfect, why do they change play callers? If everyone's so in and other people have taken the blame for the fact that how good is Dak, right? They got rid of Des because, well, Des isn't good enough. Was he? Maybe not. You know, it's why he's not in the league anymore.

Also, he got hurt. but also is because Dack couldn't bring out the best in him. Now, they were much better offensively when they got Amari Cooper, but there were times in which Dac wasn't good enough even with the supporting cast. So if I'm the Cowboys, I say all the right things. I'm okay going to the season with the contract as is, and show me how you play with this new offensive coordinator, these play callers, and all of these position players,

assuming you get Zeeke back in time. All right, Doug Gottlieb is now headed to Oxnard, the world's greatest strawberries and also the world's greatest radio show, live in Oxnard today. And then he goes back and he's got a second best show to us. But that's okay. He's a good guy and he's a friend. It's The Herd.

One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hour 2 live in L.A. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, Joy Taylor is joining me. I'm taking a great deal of flack for calling cantaloupe the world's best fruit. I love to turn on, meet the press, put my suspenders on, eat cantaloupe all day.

It feels great. It's not needy. I've gotten rid of friends that are needy. I don't like needy fruit. Oranges are needy. You can't open them. You can't peel them. They leave stuff all over you.

Pineapples are too harsh. I've got to pick stuff out of my teeth. Candelope is just dissolves into your mouth. Like when I married Anne, I can't have somebody, I can't be your social director and disappears for four days at a time. I have no idea where she is. I mean, she could be running another company, being in another marriage. I have no idea.

But it's perfect because I can't be your social director. I can't have needy friends. I can't have needy fruit. Cattleope is not needy. It's just, you pop it in and it dissolves. Colin, cantaloupe is literally like a rock. Like you have to cut it in the same way that you cut a pineapple. Well, I buy it.

I buy it already parsed. Like, who buys a whole pineapple? You don't buy the cubed pineapple? No, it's hard on your mouth. What do you mean it's hard? Citrusy. You can break out and get swollen. What does you say makes no sense?

Like, if you have three fruits that you have to survive on, it orange is the least needy of all. You can just peel it apart with your hands. You know, apples, grab, bite, eat. Some pesticides, you'll die early. But by and large, with an apple, grab bite, eat over. Like, I like stuff that just boom out. Same with my pets.

So literally going to the store. and next to the cantaloupe is a container of pineapple. Nope. And you choose to eat the cantaloupe over the pineapple. Oh, God, not even close. Every time. Look at me. I'm a picture of health.

Canaloupe and honeydew are just filler fruit in fruit cups where better fruit should go. We see the world differently. Give me my suspenders. You're going to lose this debate. So good to have you and everybody. You know, it's funny. I was thinking about the Raiders, HBO Hard Knocks. We're all kind of wondering, will they cover the Antonio Brown situation?

which is all sorts of crazy town, right? But remember that show called Wife Swap? I watched it a couple times. Yeah, it was crazy. So they would take, like, boring wife and put her in unstable Crazy Town family. Or they'd take Crazy Town wife and put her in boring family. And that was the show. It was funny.

It was this disconnect. Antonio Brown is not going to blow up the Raiders. He fits the Raiders. For 20 years, Get over this commitment to excellence. They don't even feel like the rest of the NFL. The NFL's very corporate. It's very IBM.

They don't feel like the rest of the league. Their uniforms look like practice uniforms. They tarp off the upper deck. They make the least amount of money on game days. They have the poorest owner. They hired their GM and their coach from television. They really have no direction as a franchise. They've had nine coaches in 16 years.

Cleveland's been bad. Cleveland's been chaotic. they feel like part of the NFL. The Raiders don't. The Raiders feel a little bit like Donald Sterling's Clippers, the Bengals for about 15 years, the Oakland A's with Charlie Finley

where the A's used to put their games on a college radio station. You know, it just, the Raiders year to year don't know where they're playing. The Raiders lobbied to get on hard knocks. Everybody else lobbies to get

not on hard knocks. So I don't think Antonio Brown, he's a mystery. He's an enigma. That's the Raiders. Now, I do think he was wildly troublesome for the Pittsburgh Steelers. But the Pittsburgh Steelers are the model. They're not just stable. They're the model of stability in the NFL.

Three coaches in like 60 years. Rooney, Kevin Colbert, they don't fire coaches. They have arguably the best fans. They have the second. biggest brand in the league after the Cowboys. So Antonio Brown was disruptive, was very disruptive for Pittsburgh. I don't think he is for the Raiders. I just don't think the Raiders are particularly good.

I don't think they're buttoned down. I think they're fun. I don't think they're a playoff team. And frankly, two of the best five, six teams in the NFL Chargers chiefs are in their own division. So, you know, it's not the greatest division to be in if you've got some dysfunction. But, I mean, I tend to think that chaos amongst chaos is not as disruptive. You know, like, you ever go to Vegas with some buddies?

And when you go to Vegas, you're in your 20s and 30s, maybe you're older, that all it takes, if you got like four grownups and one idiot, it just takes the idiot guy to ruin the trip. Somebody has to babysit the idiot. So choose, when you travel to Vegas as guys, choose wisely. Because if you have four stable guys, it just takes one goofball to blow the trip up. But if you went with four guys and they're all train wrecks, they're all marginally employed, they're all been in trouble. They all have a history of goofiness.

and then throwing another goofy guy doesn't matter. The whole weekend's a mess. It's like hangover three. So I look at AB to the Raiders. He's not disruptive. He's on brand. This is who they are. An enigma.

All right, let me shift to LeBron James. This story is interesting. So I'm a big believer in self-awareness. If you're a pro athlete, understand the temperature of the room. I do think it's harder for NBA players. because let's be honest about this. Let's talk about baseball players. Baseball players live a life of failure.

Derek Jeter bats 300, meaning 70% of the time he walks back to the dugout, he failed. So baseball's constantly about how do you handle failure? It's a minor leagues, college, high school, Hall of Famers are on three out of seven times. You learn you're beaten down constantly by baseball. And so you learn to handle failure. In the NFL, you get hit.

You get cut. Football practice is hard. You play in terrible weather. So you're constantly in baseball. You're being humbled. And in football, you're constantly being humbled. Basketball's different. You can spot talent early.

You watch those videos of Zion at 15, you're like, okay, that's an NBA player. Half the NFL's undrafted. I mean, baseball's got 40 rounds to find players. In the NBA, by the eighth pick, you kind of run out of dependable players. There's about eight people a year coming to the league. On average, last 30 years, two all-stars a draft. That's it. Fourth player this year, it's a project.

And now they come into the league young. But in basketball, the culture is more about worshiping. It's more about gassing up the player. He's a star. He joins an AAU team. He gets swag. He's got a shoe deal. Zion's played nine minutes of Summer League.

He's got a $100 million shoe deal. So what is harder for a professional basketball player in America, and all these pro athletes are like 24 years old, right? They enter the sports at 21. NBA, they enter at 19. So it's harder to ask professional basketball players to have self-awareness and don't fall in love with yourself. It's harder. Basketball culture is a worship, shoe, idolization, money earlier league.

But once you've been in the league 10 years, I'm going to hold you accountable. Now you're a man. Now you're 30 years old. Now I'm going to ask for Carmelo Anthony a little more self-awareness. And I'm especially going to ask for a little more self-awareness from LeBron James because I think he's smart. I think he's got smart handlers. I think he's been around the block. And I didn't love this.

LeBron James put himself in a picture with Magic, Shaq, Kobe, and Kareem honored and grateful to be a part of greatness. Starting five versus any franchise all time. I don't love this. LeBron's not a Laker great. LeBron's great. He's an all-time great. Randy Johnson's an all-time great pitcher. One of the most intimidating I've ever seen. He joined the Yankees. He is not a Yankee great. Randy Johnson is an all-time great. He didn't win enough in New York to be an all-time Yankee great. Nobody puts him in the top 20 Yankees of all-time. There's just too many good ones.

The Lakers have had too many good players. Jerry West doesn't make that? Wilton make that. Elgin Baylor, who I didn't see play. He doesn't make it. LeBron. I like you. I really do. This whole L.A. thing, it's kind of, and L.A. does this. It kind of changes people a little. You're not a Laker great. You're an all-time great. Some say the greatest ever. Now, Kareem Abdul-Jabbarc came out and said, he doesn't have anything to prove to anyone. Oh, yes, he does. Yes, he does. He has to prove to the city of Los Angeles. This is not a money grab and not an opportunity for him to have more shows and movies and businesses. Listen, I am not going to hold 24-year-old NBA players to have great self-awareness.

The sport doesn't humble you. Baseball does. Football does. You just get humbled. Tom Brady got humbled last week. Basketball, it's a different sport. We pay these kids $100 million after nine minutes of summer league. That's not even the league.

That's just a shoe company. Of course they like themselves. But LeBron, you're better than this. You have more self-awareness than this. You're not an all-time like a great. You're an all-time great. You're Randy Johnson to the Yankees. You could be, but you've got something to prove

that Los Angeles isn't just a place for you to open pizza chains, have movies, more TV shows, and Hollywood relationships. go to a Laker game. 99% of the people there don't live in Hollywood. Don't work in Hollywood. They're sports fans. Even in Glitzy Los Angeles,

they care about winning games. They're not famous. They don't know any famous people. They're sales people. Their executives, go to the upper deck. Middle America. It really is. Even in Los Angeles.

Got to win games. I didn't love that picture. All right, good stuff. Eric Mangini, who often doubts many of my greatest theories, will be joining us. Very, and by the way, don't be surprised if he likes cantaloupe. Most right-thinking Americans come around a cantaloupe over time, mostly after 50. Your teeth hurt, it's soft. You know, it just works.

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Or go to carshield.com. Use the code herd for 10% off. A deductible may applaud. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live there. them listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast and for more follow timbo slice of life 12 and the ticot podcast network on ticot welcome to my new podcast learn the hard way with me your host and your favorite therapist care games and in recognition of mental health awareness month i'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests i'm talking tripp fontaine ryan clark sometimes

when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games, and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you. to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Football is back on Fox with preseason clash between Russell Wilson and the Seahawks and Kirk Cousins and the Vikings.

It all kicks off Sunday at 8 Eastern on Fox and the Fox Sports. It's up. Seahawks lost Frank Clark. Chief Scott Frank Clark. That's a big loss to me. And that division now, Garapolo, Kyle Shanahan. Seattle's in a weird spot. That feels like an 8-and-8 team to me.

Eric Mangini is joining us, former head coach of the Jetson Browns, Patriot defensive coordinator, 49ers defensive coordinator. So, you know, we were talking about Jeff Fisher came on the show yesterday. And he said, listen, man, when I started the job, it was 80% me doing schematics and 20% babysitting. By the end of my career, about halfway through, it was 80% taking care of the players, I could hand the schematics off. I think Cleveland's talented. I think they're unrealistic.

Freddie Kitchens is the coach. He's never been a coordinator for a full season. So when I say, I think we're getting a little gassed up on this Cleveland thing. Do I sound like a hater? No, no, you sound like someone who actually has a realistic view of how things are. So not only is he going to be a first-time head coach, he's going to be a first-time coordinator for a full season, and I think they may have named a coordinator,

but he's going to be running that. And there's so many things that come up during the course of the day that you didn't anticipate. And Jeff and I were talking about this yesterday in the avocado room, how you set your schedule, and then there's at least five things a day that come up that weren't in your schedule that take precedence over whatever you had. And as a first-time guy, you've never dealt with any of those issues.

and you just don't know what you don't know. And things take longer than they should because it's your first time going through it. And the worst thing that you can have is a pile of expectations put on you as well. Because people are going to play the Browns differently in the early part of the season than they would have if they didn't have these expectations. You think that's true? Oh, without a doubt because the Browns are the favorite or a favorite to go to the Super Bowl to go to the playoffs. Teams aren't going to give them a pass like they may have historically.

They're going to come at them full throttle from the beginning. And it's different. It's different than when you have no expectations going in the season. You can kind of figure your way through some things. He doesn't have that luxury. Yeah, somebody told me years ago, Muhammad Ali got everybody's best fight. Kobe Bryant got everybody's best effort. Nobody sat on the schedule.

I play Kobe tomorrow. I'm going to go out and party. Right. Like Peyton Manning. You know this. Peyton Manning kept defensive coordinators up for two weeks. So Cleveland now, you look at the schedule, you're like, oh, that's the noisiest team in the league. So you do you do get, do you feel like when you play a good team or one with high expectations,

your players are more focused for the week? Without a doubt, not only is it the noisy team, but they go out and they have one drive in the preseason. That's a pretty good drive. Now that they spring no huddle on the Washington Redskins on the first drive of the preseason, they go down and score and you're taking pictures in the end zone. Like you're noisy on the first drive of preseason. And every other team in the league is going to look at that and go like, okay, this is what we're going to get.

So every time your score, you're going to act like this, this is how you're going to be. No one wants to be embarrassed. And when you go out and you kind of embarrass someone the first drive of preseason, it's like, all right, lock and load, let's go. Yeah, I mean, they really did. They kind of taunted the Redskins. They scored in the end zone, took pictures,

And I think, you know, it's so easy to see from outside that you shouldn't do this. But I think Cleveland's just happy. They're relevant. Well, and I live in Cleveland. So I see all the things and hear all the things. We're going to let guys be who they are. And this is about expressing yourself. That's great.

That's great as long as you're winning and there's order and there's things are following the path that you hope they follow. but when things don't go the way that you hope, how do you reel all that stuff back in? And it's hard. Once it starts, it's hard to reel all those things back in. Eric Mangini is joining us. We were talking about,

I had said earlier, the Raiders brand for 15 years has been chaotic. So I don't think Antonio Brown will be a cause of the Raiders issues. He is a symptom of them. and whereas Pittsburgh's been known for stability, and I think he really was jarring to the organization. They just, they just, it threw them for a loop.

When I look at the Raiders, I mean, for the last 15 years, they've been, they've just been different, they've been an enigma, they tarp off the upper deck, they run through coaches, they hire people from television. I kind of think he is the Raiders. And I don't think if they struggle, he's the problem, or am I wrong that even in organizations

that have a history of chaos, chaos is not a better fit? Well, first of all, the Steelers, they have had incredible stability, but they've always had members of the family that were challenging. They've always had members of the family that were different than

and hard to deal with, and that's gone on for years and years. And Antonio, I don't think, is that different than some of the guys they've had in the past. To me, Oakland's trade for Antonio for, what was it, a three and a fifth, or they swapped this. It was a pretty amazing trade. I mean, especially when you compare it to getting Odell Beckham for a one and what they had to give up.

You get the best receiver or arguably one of the top three or four receivers in the NFL for a third-round draft pick. That's a pretty amazing opportunity to have. Now, you're going to have to live with the other stuff. And when you go into that business, you deal with six. days to get to the seventh day. You know that you're going to have to deal with some pain and some discomfort and some disruption in order to get the upside on Sunday. And John's had players like that in the past.

He's comfortable working in that world. And so now you get an elite talent like that for very little trade value. It actually makes a lot of sense for them. Sounds like you like Oakland. Well, look, I think John knows who John is. I think John has had success with players that, had been difficult in the past. It's not something that concerns him.

He had an opportunity to go get an elite special player for nothing. It was essentially a fire sale. Vantes Burrfect is a guy that can be difficult. He was more than happy to get him. Yeah, and he mixed it in with draft picks that are all considered to have really high character. And so it's an interesting dynamic that they're building there. But I don't think it's outside of the Raiders brand. And I don't think it's necessarily outside of John's brand.

put that chart up guys Greg John 11 quarterbacks have been picked first round in the last three years and a lot of good ones I said if I had to I'm not a day trader I don't time the market I don't look at my 401k long term investment I draft the quarterback and think 12 years I'm looking for traits maturity size durability coachability if I had to take of all the 11 quarterbacks in the last three years I'd say my homes one, Darnold, two. Then we can argue about the rest. I like Dachan Watson three. If I said to you, give me your three out of Kyler, Daniel, Dwayne, Baker, Sam, Josh, Josh, Lamar, Mitch, Patrick, Deshaun. Give me your three in order.

12-year investment. This is a pretty hard list, right? We've seen Kyler Murray for, what, 10 plays, Danube Jones for... Hey, this is not an easy show. I'm just saying, like, okay. I like Deshaun Watson. I know that you love Sam Darno.

You don't like Darnold? Well, he, yeah, I mean, he's okay. His interception to touchdown ratio is pretty much even, right? Similar to what it was in college. Low 60% completion percentage, losing record. I mean, there's a lot of things that I can see based off of last year. You're thinking, okay, he's the guy for the next 12 years and he's going to unseat Tom Brady. So I'm Mahomes, Darnold.

You're Mahomes who? I like Watson. I think Dishon Watson is in the third year of his system. He's at over 100 quarterback. right in the last two years. He said 45 touchdowns and 17 picks. He's able to make dynamic plays. Now, the amount that he gets sacked is a problem,

and some of that is a function of the offensive line, and some of that is a function of him holding out of the ball. But his ability to make plays and being in the third year of the system after being as productive as he's been the first two years, to me that's exciting. Who's your third? You know, with that list, I don't, take your pick.

Who on that is that proven? You're in Cleveland. What about Baker? Based off of the numbers and the success that he's had, I would probably take Baker over Darnold at this point. That's unfortunate. But some of these other guys, I mean, we're talking about a pretty small sample size. Of course we are. Listen, I'm not saying this is perfect.

It was a rant, and I just offered you an opportunity to have an opinion in the rant. That was fine with me. Okay. One more question. Okay. We all kind of know. You know, I said this earlier, that you got to be careful about, well, this quarterback wins. Mark Sanchez won a lot.

Tebow won a lot. Glenn Close is maybe the best actor of my life. She never won an Oscar. Kobe Bryant has won. Be careful about winning, okay? Like award shows give people wins. In the industry, people know who the truly great artists are. Martin Scorsese has one Oscar.

He's one of the smartest, most devoted film people in my life. The whole DAC wins thing. If I'm a GM today and you tell me Wence or Dak, even with the injury issues, I overwhelmingly take Wins. He's just a better talent. He's bigger, better arm, more of a whip. He plays, I think, with less cautious. What do you do with DAC when, you know, you have been in these rooms where it's like, this is a hard cap league. NFC is loaded. Inches count. Where do you fall on DAC's contract?

Well, to me, I don't know if it's completely fair to disregard wins, because when you look at a guy like Carson Wentz, two out of three seasons where he's been a starter, they have a losing record. When you look at Dak Prescott, in every category he's better than Carson Wentz or almost. So whether it's head to head, whether it's divisional wins, whether it's playing. off appearances, whether it's completion percentage. So all those things, you look at it and you say, okay, back Prescott is better. And then you look at durability. Back doesn't miss games. And Carson could be the best quarterback ever if he's not available to play.

It really doesn't matter. Looking at the contract situation, do I think that he is a top five quarterback right now? No, I don't think that he is, but the market is what the market is. and if you want to redo his deal at this point, it's going to have to come in at least at where Carson Wentz was. And I think that's a very fair comparable. If I was the organization, I think it'd be great to be able to let it ride this season,

knowing that you have the franchise tag the next season. Franchise number this year is $25 million, his $2 or $3 million this year, you know, let's say it goes up a couple million. You get him for $32 million or $32 million or $30 million. There's a sense that you have to sign it because Zeke is demanding he gets signed. Dallas doesn't have to do anything.

No, you don't have to do anything. And is DAC not going to play if he doesn't get signed this year? And he can bet on himself. And that's worked out for a couple people. Kirk Cousins, it worked out great for. Joe Flacco, it worked out great for. And with Joe Flacco, it worked out great for the Ravens too for that year. The year that he was the hungriest, they won the Super Bowl.

guys playing for a contract are really, really motivated special types of players. And so to be able to have a guy continually chasing that, there's real upside there. Good to seeing you. Good seeing you. How long are you in town for? I'm here through Friday. Maybe I'll see you again. Hopefully you will.

It may be nice if you can occasionally commit to the show. You're a very busy guy. Eric Mangini. Thank you, coach. Joy with the News. No, no, no. Turn on the news. is the herd line news.

The training camp is always good for a really fun, feel-good story. And I love this story out of Cleveland. So, Damon Shihisepi, joined the Browns after earning a workout in a very unconventional way. He spent his last $200 on training services with NFL trainer Pete Bomarino in Miami, Bommerito. And he spent two nights sleeping outside of the facility preparing for his workout because he didn't have any money for a hotel. His mother and aunts were, like, post-mating him food in Miami.

me. He showed up to the Browns workout and convinced the doorman that he was friends with Alonzo Highsmith and he was there for a workout, which was a lie. Then once Shehi Giuseppe got in front of High Smith, he convinced him to let him run a 40, which he ran a 4.3840. And that impressed enough to earn him a spot in camp and a shot at preseason. And he's the perfect long shot story and they celebrated accordingly when he returned a touchdown. Yes. Shee-Josepe's got it at the 14 jungle. Now he's to the 20, 25. Here he goes. 30, 40.

He's in a 50. He's in a 40. That's in a ground. He's a grand. 10. That's in a Graham Ceehee. That's a big. It's pretty amazing story.

It's really great. It's really great. Training camp, this is what Hard Knocks is really great at. It's featuring stories like this. Obviously, this is not Hard Knocks. This is a Brown's production. But it's really a great story. And it's kind of like betting on yourself.

We were just talking about it with Dak and Flacco. Sometimes you just got to invest all you got. yourself and know that you got it. By the way, is this the first sign of a magical year for Cleveland? I mean, maybe, look, I don't, this type of stuff is what reminds you of why sports is special and, like, what it really means to people to get to that level, how hard it is to make a team, how hard it is to even get in the door. And another little special add-on to the story is that he actually lost his cleats that he

brought with him to run in. So O'Dell actually let him borrow his cleats, and he basically said he, he basically said he broke him in for him. He had worn them already. So Beckham let him borrow his cleats. That's a great American. It's a really great story. It really is. Now, obviously it's early in training camp. We're still going to see if he makes a team. But it's a nice little, nice little story out of Cleveland there. So Jamal Adams spoke to the media yesterday and made an interesting reveal. The Jets have a feelings report in their defense room. It's a lot of accountability, man. You know, we always joke about it, but it's,

We have a feelings report. And basically, if you get upset about something that someone calls you out on or whatever it is, you're getting your feelings, that's a sensitive fine. So obviously, you know, we don't tolerate that as a defense. We communicate. We hold each other accountable. And as long as we're on the same page, we'll be fine, man. And like I said, we'll give ourselves a chance.

He is such a great player. God, he's good. Yes. I don't know how I feel about this exactly. Now, Greg Williams is the defensive coordinator. and he was asked if he had been listed. And Adams said the defensive coordinator would fight whoever dared to make a suggestion. So basically, if you get in your feelings after getting criticized, you go on the feelings report

and their punishments are push-ups and other such bro-like activities. I'm not going to overreact to it and it's like make it a PC culture thing. If this is what everyone's buying into, I'm totally cool with it. Not exactly how I would approach the situation. But everyone has their own style. To me, I don't feel like everyone responds to the same thing. And this is kind of where coaches get into trouble with this whole, like, macho mentality.

Well, Greg's very old school. Yeah, everyone has to buy into this, you know, this mantra that I have that you can't have any feelings or emotions. And it's like that just doesn't work for everyone. And everyone responds to criticism differently. Some players love to get yelled at. Some players, if you yell at them, they completely shut down. They won't listen to another thing you say. That's part of being a coach and being a leader that you have to have a little bit of wiggle room in your approach.

Goulet breaks down twice a week. He's very sensitive. I make little jokes about his facial hair and it doesn't sit well. Finally, you will love this. The football Giants owner, John Mara, made it clear where Eli stands. He was asked about the potential quarterback transition and he had this to say. I hope Eli has a great year and Daniel never sees the field. I mean, I would be in an ideal world that you'd like to see that.

But again, at the end of the day, it's going to be a decision by the head coach as to win, you know, or if Daniel ends up playing the show. Why does it matter who is the quarterback? Daniel Jones is the number six overall pick. What do you mean you hope Eli has a great year and he never sees the field? Well, why is that the ideal situation? Well, it would be ideal because your rookie would sit for a year and then you wouldn't have to deal with a controversy because Eli is playing great. I'll tell you, Daniel Jones, we're showing some video here, sorry to the radio audience. It was a bunch of timing routes.

I thought Daniel Jones looked really good. I know it means nothing, vanilla coverages, but I thought he was really accurate. He was 5-0-5 with 67 yards and one touchdown. Yeah, and I thought he made a couple of throws, the one to the corner of the end zone. You're like, oh, that's a big time NFL timing throw. You could tell the Giants put him in situations, make a big throw. And he did. He was very accurate.

I liked him. I thought he looked really good. Here's the problem with the Giants. I don't think that there's a scenario this year where they don't have a quarterback controversy. Because even if Eli does earn the starting job, which we're all. assuming that he will. He won't be great. He's not going to be great, and the moment it starts to slip, everyone's going to be screaming and hollering for Daniel Jones,

and then what do you do? That's a good point. Enjoy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. Former Patriot linebacker, Matt Chatham, he writes for the athletic,

three-time Super Bowl champ, former Patriots linebacker. You know, we're going to talk to him about the whole Brady thing as Brady ages. Was he upset last week with a contract that was offered and signed by him and his agent with New England and Belichick. That's coming up next. All right. Summer's got about three weeks left. We got that Labor Day weekend. Then you got to kind of wrap it up. Kids are in school. You travel a little less until Christmas. All right? Get your travel luggage from away luggage. The aluminum carry on and a large check bag. It's

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Okay, you travel with it for 100 days. Don't love it. Return it. No questions asked. That tells you how confident they are in their away luggage. Awaytravel.com slash column. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it,

and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Matt Chatham is a three-time Super Bowl chant with New England. Seven years in the league writes for the athletic

and does their call it a commentator on the Patriots of preseason network right now. Matt knows this organization. He knows Brady. He knows Belichick. He knows the culture. He knows the system. He know how the game is played. Matt is joining us here on the phone in the herd.

First of all, Matt, I want to start with this. Brady did seem, you know, marginally irritated. Maybe I'm reaching here on his new contract. You know, he'd probably like three years guaranteed. Did you notice irritation or am I reaching and Tom is satisfied with his current status contractually? He says that his transcript reads as mildly agitated. The live performance was joky and laid back and he probably couldn't care less. I think the notion of referencing it is what it is.

I mean, obviously it's a tritled statement that everyone uses. But when he went to that and he had the big. big rye grin on his face. He says, hey, we're going to go year to year like everyone goes year to year. In the context of all the other things he was saying at that time, I always try to point to people that, and again, it's not something that I can reference or most people that are going to hear Tom Talk can reference. He uses King thinking. He's a king, and kings don't quibble over a lot of these small things. I think the notion that, hey, such and such a player is going to make $2 million more than me. Well, he'll play

five or six years in the league. And I'll play 25, and I'm going to have more rings than everyone else and have a tremendous life. And some of that being counting isn't necessary when you're a king. And I think that's part of it. What do you have liked, you know, more guaranteed money that told him for, you know, for certainty's sake where everything would be, you know, 24 months from now. Yeah, that'd be great. But he's a 42-year-old guy. And I think there's some realism here, especially when you consider the parties that are negotiating. He and Kraft have a special relationship. Sometimes in the documentary, it felt like he and Belichick tolerated each other. But it has to be a little warmer than that, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. I think part of it, shoot, I can't even think of it with my own wife, a relationship that where you have is that long where there aren't some icy moments. And that's going to be part of it. But the reality is they've come over, they've overcome so many different things, so many different challenges, so many different sequences of time, whether it be 12 months or 18 months or a little pocket of seasons where things weren't the greatest. When you've been through those sort of battles with someone so many times, so many different ways, there's sort of an inherent understanding of one another that goes deeper than, you know, your general coach player relationship. So most people

can't relate to this. I certainly can't. You know, nine years in the league and I don't, you know, you're transient enough to where you have a different coach every few years. But that's not what these guys have dealt with. So there are going to be minor quibbles. But I think at the end of the day, these guys have been through so many of those ring ceremony, so many of those times, quiet moments in the offseason, cigars after it's all said and done, where these little things that, you know, become news story for us in the media. Let's talk about Nikiel Harry, Arizona State, Matt. I saw a lot of him in college.

He's not a burner. He reminds me a little bit of Anquan Bolden, good in space, good in crowds, tough. What kind of impact will he have year one? Does he replace Gronk? I actually like your Bolden Comp. I think that's a pretty good one. I think another one, you know, Des Bryant got thrown out there. I think part of it because those guys weren't known for separation,

but they were great on-ball players. So they have good extension once it arrives. They have really good body control. They're really strong for the position. And I think that's kind of where he fits. One thing we've seen in sort of these joint practices with Detroit a week ago and just the general team practices here in camp is he's very competitive. He works hard, but, I mean, that's, again, another trite statement that he's

hear a lot about wide receivers. But this guy is a bit of a workhorse in moments where you can kind of tell a team is, you know, let's go 80 percent here. he always feels like he's the guy 5% out in front of it. So that's a good quality to have early on. But then again, in saying all this, there's a long history of can't a rookie wide receiver, get up to speed, and necessarily be like a front-end guy off the bat. That's not really realistic, I think, really across the NFL, even some of your best guys,

OBJ and, you know, like a Julio Jones. I don't think coming out to Gates and being a thousand-yard guy is typically how it goes, even with the most consistent or highly talented guys like that. So Gronk was just so different. And I think a lot of Gronks wins generally are going to come on the inside of the field. So Harry does his thing outside the numbers. I think maybe some production from this new guy that's been sort of the camp wonder here. Jacoby Myers from NC State, a 6-3, another tall-ride receiver,

but he can be more slot-focused. And if you're talking bigger slots, which is the polar opposite of like a West Welker or a Danny Amidola, you know, it's not a one-for-one necessarily with a tight-in, but you do get that length and extension between the hashes. I've said a couple years ago, I felt Tom in December didn't quite have the arm push that he had early in seasons. That's the decline I see. I've never thought there's not a noticeable decline, but I did think December and on sometimes cold weather. It's harder as you age.

Have you ever seen a decline in the last two years in any aspect of Tom's game? No. I mean, I think there was a moment there mid-season where you can point to rough play. But the problem with doing that, and most players are going to have it, obviously times above the curve and has usually much less of it. The problem with some of the mistakes where, you know, there was maybe a heavy week or two of a wild ball or one of the bigger issues that the team had last year midseason before they really turned things around was operationally. You know, some timeouts at wrong times, and that's something that's really age-independent. But his arm was strong throughout the playoffs. I think it would look exceptionally.

You can go back to both the Chargers and Chiefs game. And even a lot of the throws that happened in a relatively low-scoring game, there's. with the Rams of the Super Bowl. So I've sort of challenged myself and a lot of the guys that stood up there on the hill during media times with their binoculars, watching Tom go through this practice that, you know, I went through with him so many times,

and then now I've done it for almost a decade as a media member. It is very difficult, and I think, objectively, I would be pressed to find that one attribute that's different if he were 10 years ago. It's really, really difficult to find it, even if you were looking for and wanted to find it and wanted to say, hey, there's the drop. He's such a smooth long ball thrower.

He's pretty effortless even on deep outs. He pretty much has the same tempo, mannerisms, gait way he gets in and out of the pocket like he always has, which can be frustrating because you expect it at some point it's going to hit, but it really hasn't yet. His name is Matt Chatham. He's three Super Bowl champs, seven years. He now writes for the athletic, which is a great site. I go to it daily. Preseason color commentator on the Patriot Radio Network, smart guy, obviously.

Matt, I'd love to have you on again before the day. the end of the preseason. Great job and nice finally having you on the show. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks, John. Take care. You bet. Matt Chatham. You know, it's funny. He talked about the gate, the way he walks. You know, sometimes as you get older as an athlete, you know, you see the old athlete.

They have a different walk. You know, they haven't done the prerequisite yoga. That's the one thing about Brady is that we joke on the show, even facially. He hasn't aged a ton. He clearly takes absurd care of his body. That's what Troy Aikman said yesterday on Twitter, Troy is like, listen, just because the way he treats his body, he can make it to 45.

But it takes one or two shots to Kurt Warner, Brett Farr, and the end comes very, very fast. You know, there's the old joke in the NBA that, like, when you, in the NBA, the speed, if you bump knees in your first five years in the league, you sit down for the rest of the half. If you do it, you know, eight years into the NBA, you miss a game. You go on the IR if you do it your 12th year in the league. You bump knees with Westbrook. You're out for like three weeks.

It comes fast. When you age, you do not heal quickly, regardless of how good your trainer is. All right, hour three is coming up. Bucky Brooks, one of my favorite guys preseason well underway. In L.A., it's the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day,

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Open your free, iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashed. human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having

trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Not only played in the NFL was a scout, NFL network. and now the head football coach at Granada Hills in California. And all your coaching buddies, your Chip Kellys, your Lincoln Riley's,

your Mike Leachers are giving you information. So now you're a coach again. Yeah, I'm a coach, but I've been coaching high school ball for 10 years, but now I get the big whistle. So me and LaVar Arrington, who comes on, like, we get to share head coaching stories and talk about all kinds of craziness or whatever. But now it's been a ton of fun, another education in the life of my football journey. That's great.

Antonio Brown, I said earlier, a chaotic family is probably more capable of dealing with chaos. A stable family could be rocked by it. There used to be a show called Wife Swap, and you'd put the crazy wife into the stable family, and it was a mess, but the other family seemed to love Mom. A, B, with the Raiders, doesn't feel disruptive to me. He is their brand.

They've been mysterious, enigmatic, odd. They almost feel like the clippers with Donald Sterling. They're in the league, not of the league. I mean, even their uniforms, They've always looked like practiced jerseys. It's just, I mean, they, they tarp off the upper deck. Their owner is different, doesn't feel as corporatized as the rest of the NFL. I mean, what would you do, you know, you're coaching high school?

What would you do if you were coaching A, B? Do you think it's massively disruptive? I mean, it's tough because ideally in a perfect world, you want your best player to be your best worker and the ultimate team guy. The stories that you hear out of Oakland throughout all, All of this stuff is just concerning. One, the cryotherapy thing, the feet not being available. That's weird.

To me, that's kind of like a lack of immaturity and professionalism. Like, hey, take care of yourself. You need to be available. They paid you a ton of money. They expect you to be one of the guys out here kind of demonstrating to our guys how to win. He came from a Steelers organization at one a ton of games. You would like for him to be able to convey some of those messages to his teammates. Good point.

The bigger thing where I'm worried is he's acting out already. And so you have John Gruden who, to his point, look, he's trying to curry favor with his guy. He took some bullets for him. He stood up there and said like, hey, I don't understand why he's getting all this flack and the like. But at some point, John Grude and AB have to have a conversation. And he has to outline, look, the expectations for you, man. We expect you to be not only a great player, but we want you to lead the younger guys. Because when you look at the way the Raiders are built, you have what they did in the draft,

which I thought was very successful. They did the Warren Buffett model. Big guys, big brand names, big schools, guys that came from winning programs, Alabama, Clemson, Carickson, it was great. But then in the free agent market, you have Anthony Brown where you traded for. You have Vontes Burfick. You have some guys that are a little edgy. So ultimately, what is the culture of that locker room going to be?

Is it the younger guys that kind of know how to be complying and follow in total line? Or is it the older guys who have had a level of dysfunction that have always followed them? is really going to be interesting to watch how this team handles crisis whenever it happens in the season. Who is going to be the galvanizing force that can bring everybody back on board and get them on the right track? That is the challenge that I see from the Raiders and how is Gruden going to navigate the Rocky Waters and kind of be consistent with his message to his team? Well, you played with the Jags, Packers, Chiefs, Bill's, Raiders. Every season, including New England.

Last year, New England had a two-game stretch where Tom's knee wasn't great. they were bad. They went down to Miami, the Pittsburgh game. They were bad. So when you were in the NFL and you do hit inevitably the Rocky Waters, is it the quarterback who takes over? I mean, Derek Carr, it's funny, Gruden feels loud and verbose and alpha, and sometimes Derek Carr doesn't feel like that to me.

Yeah, so it really depends on the level that we're talking about where the quarterback is. If you're talking about an elite quarterback who has a big voice, who doesn't mind, standing in front of the room and kind of saying, hey, I got this, we'll do it. They'll take on more responsibility and they'll play at a higher level. Those guys can do it. Other times, it's the coach who has to drive it.

When I was in Kansas City, it was clear. Marty Schottonhammer was a driving force of that thing. His confidence, his consistency, his stability allowed the team to be confident during a rough stretch. So a lot of it depends on who is the ultimate leader, but one of the other has to be the guy that is the state of a quarterback. It has to be the coach or it has to be the quarterback.

One of those guys, when it comes to a critical moment in the season, they have to be able to steady the waters either through their play and performance or how they carry themselves on the field. The guys would kind of gain confidence from watching how they go about their business. When you look at the A – we were talking about the AFC, NFC, where the AFC has got really, really good rosters at the top. But by the time I get to about the fifth team, Houston, I'm like, no job. GM, battle line, never been a step-up franchise.

I look at the NFC, and I can go down to what I think is the ninth best team in the NFC, or eighth, Atlanta, MVP quarterback, Super Bowl, 28, and 20, and I think they have really good owner, GM, coach, quarterback. This is why I say with DAC in a hard-cap league, the NFC feels like to me, inches matter, details matter more. That's not to say the AFC doesn't have really good teams at the top, but in the AFC, you do get back-to-back games. You're hosting the bills.

You're hosting the Dolphins. It feels like you should win those games. I don't feel like there's much of a bottom. It's very brief, if at all, in the NFC. So when I look at the DAC contract and I look at the Cowboys, I'm like, listen, the idea of just getting DAC done, why shouldn't they just play this thing out, franchise him next year? Well, why not? They can, but then you run the risk.

of what? The Kirk Cousin deal. So the Kirk Cousin thing. So the reason why everyone is so surprised by the numbers that are being floated out about DAC is because the Dallas Cowboys waited. They could have got this deal done in the fall. You probably could have got him at about $23, $24 million per.

A lot of it is skewed because the Jimmy Garapolo deal at $27 million kind of set the market ups. It kind of upset the market. Well, now, Dak Prescott always has the luxury of knowing, okay, you don't want to pay me? Cool. I know this. If you franchise me, we're looking at $30 to $32 million.

And if you do it again, it's 120% over top of that. So I know if I get the franchise tag, we're looking at $65, $66 million guaranteed. So the conversation starts at that point. And so when people are upset, like, I can't believe they're going to pay them $33, $34, $35 million. It has to start there because the vehicles that are in place by the CBA. what the Dallas Cowboys have to decide and determine, what do we want to pay them, how much above Carson Wentz

or their rate are we willing to go? Because we have to get them done. If you go back and look at what has happened with the Dallas Cowboys, they had to run with Tony Romo, they had to run with Troy Eggman. But I don't think anybody wants to go back to the years where they had Quincy Carter, Chad Hutchinson, Drew Henson.

For all of his flaws, Dak Prescott has been a stabilizing force in that locker room. They won two division titles. He's won a ton of games, second most behind Tom Brady, and they are in the mix, which is what you always want. Now, they have to make a decision not on him, because he's going to get done. They have to get him done.

What do we want to do with Ezekiel Elliott? Because Ezekiel Elliott is the one where they really don't have to do anything. They have two more years before they really have to even think about paying him. Them paying Ezekiel Elliott now will really be doing him a favor because he doesn't have any leverage. They can just play it out. He has two years. the option, the franchise tag, and go about their business.

If Jerry was younger, could I not make this argument, Bucky Brooks joining us? Here's the best thing to do. Don't give Zique money. Let him sit out. If Jerry was 46, not 76. Let Dack play the season without Zique. Numbers come down.

Maybe. Then at the end of the year, now I go to Dack and I'm like, I've seen you when you carry the team. I'll give you 27-5. Oh, dear. But see, but that still won't work. See, because Amari Cooper is in the building. So we saw Dax numbers the last half of the year. That looked like a different quarterback when he had Amari Cooper, a legitimate number one receiver. We can say, unfairly, I don't know if he had an upper echelon wide receiver core.

He had a declining Des Bryant. He had Cole Beasley, who's a nice third receiver. But he really didn't have high-end weapons. So now you get him a high-end weapon. He looks a little different. And yes, you can talk about he had Zeke Elliott behind him. But remember, he also. played with an offensive line that has probably had a better reputation than the way they perform. Tyron Smith has been hurt. He's no longer the guy that he once was.

He didn't have Travis Frederick playing at Center, who's a Pro Bowl center. So now he would have an opportunity where if you remove Zeke, he still has high level players around him. I still would expect him to play at a high level. Look, he needs everything as most quarterbacks need everything. Drew Breeze? Drew Breeze needs Alvin Kamar and Michael Thomas to play at a high level. 90% of the quarterbacks in this league

need things around them to perform at a high level. I think you can argue there are only two guys that maybe can do it without others. That would be Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady. Those are the only ones that we've seen consistently do it without it and maybe even Philip Rivers who has had to do it in the past without high-end players around them.

But the rest of the league, they need everything around them to be able to be successful at quarterback. I'm going to throw this out. Andrew Luck now has a bone injury, according to Jim Mersey. We thought it was a calf inch. He's had seven different injuries in his seven years. Many of them, lacerated kidney, are brutal.

Some injured thumb are kind of fairly pedestrian. But in Andrew Luck's first five years in the NFL, he was not only sacked 156 times, he was hit 494, most in the league. That is missing 10 games. So if you look at Tom Brady, who played all 16, he was hit about 125 less in all 16 games. Part of me thinks with Andrew Luck that he was so unprotected and mismanaged early by a previous GM at administration that will never see him as best. That he's 85% now mentally he's fine. 85% physically, that's it.

That his years, it's the David Carr syndrome. David mentally struggled. He was just so beaten down. I think Andrew physically, I'm hearing about this calf injury, this bone injury. something's not right. No, something's not right. Like there's a series of injuries. I will say that Andrew Luck would have benefited from having Frank Reich around earlier.

Yeah. Because the thing that changed schematically, the ball comes out quicker. So the Colts play one or two ways in the passing game. When they're releasing all five eligible receivers out, it's quick rhythm passing game, meaning he gets the ball, it's catching throw, the ball is out. When they push the ball down the field, two and three-man routes, almost maximum protection to make sure that he doesn't have to worry about getting hit from a free hitter.

In the past, when he first got into the league, they were running these deep, long routes, letting it fully develop. And because Andrew Luck was so competitive, he is waiting for everything, fully exhausted in the route because for him, and we've heard Cam Newton and other quarterbacks talk about this, to them throwing a checkdown is a loss.

Right. What happens is as you get older, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, to them, they'll take the checkdown. Because what happens, every completion changes the way the defense plays. So when you're looking at Tom Brady played now as an older quarterback, he'll dink and dunk and dink and dunk, let the backs work.

He'll pull the coverage up, then he'll hit him with a strike. Andrew Luck had to learn how to kind of play that game where, look, I'll just take what they give me, I'll be patient, and eventually I will get what I want, but I have to be patient and wait for it to happen. Yeah, and I'm not blaming just Ryan Grigson. I mean, in his first couple years with Andrew Luck, there was a, he was a home run hitter. Oh, yeah. I mean, he was just sitting in that pocket.

By the way, Big Ben. I mean, early. Look, it happened. It happens to most. So what happens? Big Ben. Big Ben had to change his style of play. And even with the rub that he had with Todd Haley, Todd Haley might have been one of the best things that happened to Ben Rothersberger because then he became more of a quick rhythm passer.

The ball got out. He didn't take his many shots. he's still the gunslinger, but he doesn't leave the pocket as much as he used to. He's become a little more disciplined in terms of the way that he played. Andrew Luck ran around a lot, was tough. He's a good athlete, probably underrated on the outside in terms of his athleticism, but he would run around it. He would take these shots where he wouldn't give himself up.

Now that he's been beaten up, he'll get rid of the ball. He won't take those shots. You hope that he's healthy enough that he can take the experiences and become a better quarterback. But yeah, he's certainly physically damaged from how he played early. early in his career. Bucky Brooks, good senior, the coach of Granada High School. I'm going to drop a couple plays for you, my hook and ladder. That's right, John Elway.

We try to get Johnny Elway excited about his alma mater. Does he ever stop by? Yeah, we talked. We talked a little bit. We're trying to bring him back. Everything is named after him, the stadium, the field, all that. We're trying to do everything to encourage him to come back. So we'll see if we can come over some other things.

Good seeing you. Thanks. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, let's stick with an Andrew Luck story. So up until today, really, we thought it was a lingering calf injury.

And owner Jim Ursay added a little extra to it. He was on Sirius XM NFL radio and said this. Everyone's had their questions about Andrew and that sort of thing. But I really feel very confident that he's going to find his way through this thing. Quite frankly, this is not even in the Achilles tendon. It's another area. It's a small little bone. But he's, you know, he's doing very well, and he couldn't be more excited for the season.

We weren't even talking about the Achilles. How did the Achilles come up? There's an Achilles problem and a bone problem. I mean, you never even want to say Achilles. Like, that's like the ultimate of, like, ACL and Achilles. Avoid those two terms. It's going to send everyone into a panic. We just thought it was a lingering calf injury.

I mean, obviously, we thought that Kevin Durant's injury was a lingering calf injury, and look, all that turned out. but this is very concerning to me. As I said, it's not about him playing in the preseason, not playing in the preseason. It's about him not practicing because the season is a little over three weeks away and he isn't able to get out on the practice field. And we know what the cults are when he's not available.

Like that's, it's not great. But there are, there's a little bit of positivity. Tom Pellistero reported on NFL Network that he is throwing the heck out of the ball behind the scenes, but it will be at least another week until we see him do it in a practice setting. still no clear time table. So he is throwing well. So I guess the top half is working.

It's just very, it's really concerning with Andrew Luck. And also, we see what they are without him. This is also a really good roster. This is a real good team. Like this is one of these years. You've got the aging AFC quarterbacks. They've got a very good young roster with Andrew Luck. Yeah, it feels like if he's healthy, this could be a breakout year for them.

Absolutely. So Antonio Brown is due back at Raiders training camp today. this, of course, follows an extended absence because of his feet and him not being able to find the kind of helmet that he wants. And Brian Westbrook recently sat in with Adam Lefko of Leachre Report and compared the situation to T.O. with the Eagles. At this same attitude, the same aura around this team continues, it's impossible to win. To win in this league, you have to have everybody going in the same direction. If you have one guy doing something totally different, it messes up everything. I think in Oakland, a lot of the players support Antonio Brown because of his skill set.

Also, he brings with him a culture of winning. Yep. They don't have that. And that's the problem in the locker. I literally experienced it. Whether Donovan McNabb was right or wrong or some things, we supported our quarterback, right? And so when we had T.O. come in, we had half the room supporting Donovan because they were having a problem with each other. Right.

The other have supported T.O. Because all those things you just meant, he works hard. He brings it. He's a winning talent, the best in the league. I don't know that comparing the T. situation is entirely fair. That was a Super Bowl level team, and Antonio Brown is the best player that the Raiders have. And the Raiders are not the Steelers.

You're not coming into a situation that is running well. There's an established culture. Who's the Raiders? Who are the Raiders? Yeah, we don't know. Who's their second best player right now? Their center. Their center is one of the best centers in the league.

But, I mean, there you go. Derek Carr's third. their car, like, it's not a situation where you feel like you know what direction they're going and what they're going to be. Now, he is at training camp and he is, he, it was ruled he was able to wear that helmet as long as it wasn't, it was within 10 years. So he's looking for a helmet to play in. It's just a weird situation. It doesn't feel like the T.O. situation to me at all. Finally, Tom Brady wants to play until he's 45. There's been some questions surrounding his future with the Patriots and he said he isn't ready to talk about retirement yet, even at 42, the oldest.

non-kicker in the NFL. Do you still see yourself playing to 45, Tom? Yeah, I do. I certainly hope so. It's a big commitment, and it's a lot of time and energy I put into getting ready for practice, post-practice treatment. You know, the mental part of the game is not the challenge. It's just really working hard to keep my body in physical preparation, physical shape. I'm certainly not a robot.

There's a lot of time and energy to prepare myself and my body to play. I love doing that, and I think that's why I've been very fortunate to be able to play as long as I have. You know what's kind of interesting about Tom Brady this year is that he said he changed his workout a little bit. Like he is bulked up. In general, he's more of a pliability guy, yoga, longer muscles. Right. And he changed that. Later in his career, it's kind of an odd thing to do.

I mean, this year is one of those years where I don't really know what to expect of the Patriots or Tom Brady. I'm assuming they're going to be great. They're Super Bowl contenders again. They're going to be younger and more athletic than last year. It's a different team than last year. So I don't really know what to expect. If you look at the Chiefs, you know what they are. And not to say that we don't know what the Patriots are.

The Patriots are going to be great. Patriots have their culture. But, I mean, what are you expecting from them this year? I think they're going to be young. I think they're going to be athletic, more athletic than last year. I think Harry by, like, November, McHale Harry will be good by, like, Thanksgiving, giving on. I think Josh Gordon

is getting talked about. Watch the whole Josh Gordon thing. By the way, I still contend. Gronk will get a phone call at Thanksgiving. I don't know. Have you seen Gronk lately? Looks terrific. He looks great, but he has lost all of that football bulk.

He is enjoying his retirement. I don't know that he's coming back. I don't believe those stories. I think he has had enough surgeries and he is enjoying not being in training camp right now and not getting it. God, I love watching Patriot videos.

All right, show with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. By the way, the NBA did something yesterday that's interesting. They announced new times, starting times for games. Basically, they'll start earlier on the West Coast. And the reason they're making changes is because nobody's watching the Eastern Conference.

that LeBron has left the Eastern Conference. This is one of the things that the NFL's always had an advantage over the NBA. The NBA in my life has had six players who have changed the ratings. Magic Bird, Michael, Kobe, Shaq, LeBron. I think Zion could be the next. We've got to see if he's a special player. I think he will be. They've only had six needle movers.

If I owned a company, I would prefer not to be. be beholden for a decade to one employee. I would much rather have a system or a culture or a company where I could lose a top employee and I'd be a fine. Tiger Woods, golf became beholden to Tiger Woods. He left. They lost huge ratings. Michael Jordan left the NBA. They lost 50% of their ratings. It shows that the NBA has all sorts of really, really great players. Janus, Anthony Davis, terrific players. Kawhi Leonard. They don't move. the needle. They don't capture the public. Now, they're great, but they don't capture the public. The NBA has always been star-driven. The downside to it is this. LeBron leaves a conference,

and they literally have to change starting times because the ratings capsized. Now, I do think there's been six needle movers. I think Zion, this goes to show you that it's not all talent, it's magnetism. Kareem was great, didn't move the needle. Tim Duncan was great, didn't move the needle. It's not just talent. It's magnetism. I think Zion, in my opinion, is the next. And I think, you know, would he have really moved it in New York? More than New Orleans?

I think absolutely that's where market matters. Being a Laker, a Nicarouseltic matters. But, you know, this shows you when you're star-driven, boxing, by the way. You have three or four great boxers, Sugar Ray Leonard retire. There's not a conveyor belt of Sugar Ray Leonard magnetism on the market. So this has always been a little bit of the NFL secret sauce. They're not beholden. Peyton Manning retired.

Farr have retired. They're good. Brady's going to retire. They'll be good. Coming up, National Left-Hander Day. We paid tribute to the great lefties of all time. A couple of surprises that may catch you off guard. We recently reported that a major credit card company had a breach.

And a hundred million, 100 million people are possibly affected by a data security incident and that it's likely other organizations are possible victims of this massive data security incident that are just connected to the credit card company. Personal infos out there. Average home has 17 devices that criminals can open accounts, file tax returns,

could even buy property under your name. That's where LifeLock Identity Thief Protection comes in adding the power of Norton security. They can't prevent all threats or monitor transactions at all businesses. But LifeLock with Norton Security sees what you wouldn't and solves what you can. Go to LifeLock.com code herd.

10% off your first year. That's lifelock.com code herd. Or just call 1-800 LifeLock and use the same code for 10% off. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Car shopping is confusing. A lot of terms. Here's what's not. New or used cars. Go to Truecar.com. Check out their true price. Fees and accessories before you hit the dealership.

All right. So listen, it's National Left Handers Day. My son is left handed. And we were going back to the 10 greatest lefties of all time. It's not easy. There's a lot of choices. Wayne Gretzky did not make the list because he's kind of ambidextrous. So like Wayne Gretzky, you know, you're thinking... Yeah, a lot of athletes are, so that's kind of tricky. All right. So who are the great left-handers?

All right, let's start the list. Number 10. James Harden. Okay, average 36.1 points a game last year. That's the most since Michael Jordan. Analytically, the best scoring guard of all time. MVP, seven-time All-Star. The beard.

I mean, he is now, if analytics matter in basketball, the single most efficient score in league history. So he's number 10. Number nine. Mani Pacchio. Did you know he was left-handed? A lot of people on our staff did not know he was left-handed. He has won 12 major world titles.

Just beat, by the way, as you predicted. Keith Thurman. I was watching Keith Urban. You were watching Keith Thurman. That's how our summer went. only eight division world champ in the history of boxing. Also a senator of the Philippines, certainly one of the seminal kind of boxers in the last 30 years.

Number eight. Keanu Reeves, who has saved the world multiple times in Matrix and Speed, also played a quarterback twice. A winning quarterback. He played Johnny Utah in Point Break. He played Shane Falco in the replacements, led Ohio State to a Sugar Bowl. Keanu Reeves is a left-hander.

Number seven. Now a real quarterback, Steve Young, who Steve Young is probably because he followed Joe Montana, the most underrated player in NFL history. He was a Super Bowl MVP. He won the regular season MVP twice. He was a seven-time pro bowler. He's a pro football Hall of Famer,

excellent analyst on television. And again, because he replaced, At the time, the greatest quarterback of all time, you just forget, and he was a lefty, and he went through a different route. He didn't play to college power. Then he went to the USFL, started with another league. You just forget how great Steve Young was. Number six.

I'm a Seattle guy, Ken Griffey Jr. They called him the natural, the kid. 13-time All-Star may have been the most naturally gifted baseball player. seriously I've ever seen. I mean, he literally has a perfect swing. I watched him play in the kingdom. Here's some kingdom highlights. God, look at that swing.

Now, he was a back hat backwards guy. I'm okay, hat backwards unless you're a quarterback. Okay, so only if you're a quarterback can't do it. Don't like it at all. Or head coach. You don't like it on the head coach. Do not. Man, Griffey was just absolutely beautiful to watch.

Okay, number five. Number five. Aristotle. Oh. He was the father of Western philosophy, Greek philosopher. Not much of a sports tie, but he's arguably the smartest man in the history of the world. I mean, great quotes are used often in sports records. He's a smartest left-handed man in the history of the world.

Have you ever taken a philosophy course? Oh, yeah, a couple of them. Oh, brutal. Hard. So hard. So, and I had a boring professor in college. That made it worse. Number four.

Ethics. He was very good with ethics. Oh, yes. Number four, Raphael Nodal. He's the greatest clay player ever. He's won 12 French opens. I would say you can make an argument. Rafi,

Joakovich, and Nadal. Who's the greatest all time? I used to think it was McEnroe, maybe Borg, 18 Grand Slam titles, second most of all time. Nobody's dominated a surface like he has dominated clay. Number three. Barry Bonds, who not only is the most home runs ever, was an eight-time gold glove winner.

Anigmatic polarizing. Barry Bonds is a 14-time All-Star. Comes with a little off-field baggage and a little on-field baggage. Now, I don't think his swing is as natural as Ken Griffey's, but he put up better numbers. Number two. People forget this? Not a lot of video.

Bill Russell, our first great NBA Center. Bill Russell was so good, but in college, he made the University of San Francisco a national champion. And it's just a little beautiful small college. Think about that. That's how great Bill Russell was. In the era of all these Kentucky's

and all these Kansas and all these, he was winning national title. I mean, he's kind of low-key to go if we're really having that combo. Yeah, he really is. He's got double the championship of Jordan. He kind of is. Greatest defensive center of all time.

Great team player. Yes. And then number one. Babe Ruth. I mean, what are you going to say? Yeah. Babe Ruth, seven-time World Series champ, had more home runs than divisions did, 12-time home-run leader, third-most home runs of all time, called his shot in the 32 World Series against the Cubs.

Babe Ruth. Now, we did not count Wayne Gretzky, and I did put up a fight for Phil Mickelson, but people voted in Keanu Reeves and Aristotle. I mean, no, John Wicklove? for Keanu Reeves? You don't watch John Wick? It's supposed to be really good, right? What do you mean? I watched Jason. Not supposed to be, it is.

They're amazing. I've watched the Osborne, Jason Osborne. What's that, what's the Osborne thing? What's the Dan-Da-Dain thing? Jason Born. Osborne? No, I watch the Matt Damon Born series. Great, great series. So if you like those, you'll love the John Wick movies.

You've got to check those out. Really? Yeah, they're really good. Okay, Born series or Wick series? What's better? Again, see, there's the reaction. It's close. Really? It's really close.

The Jason Osborne series. That's in production. That one's in production. Right. Okay. Matt Chatham of the Patriots, Bucky Brooks, Eric Mangini, and Doug Gottlieb, stopped by our show today.

Red Sox Indians in our Discover card key matchup tonight. Get your free credit scorecard today. Check out. Won't hurt your credit at all. Go to discover.com slash credit score. Limitations apply. Check your scorecard. Will not hurt your credit. Speak for yourself around the corner.

Spend the hurt. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Very interesting. Getting a sneak peek of hard knocks tonight on HBO. Hmm.

Not getting what I want on Antonio Brown. You're getting a little Sean McVeigh. You know, Sean McVeigh used to work with Gruden in Tampa. Right. you're not getting the Antonio Brown stuff. Well, I mean, you're just getting a sneak peek. Maybe they're saving the good stuff for the show. I mean, that's what HBO Hard Knocks is, right?

Inside. That's why you watch the show. Like, our show is live. Maybe just nobody knows what's going on, so there's nothing to put in it. All right. Doug Gottlieb is on the show earlier today. He's doing his show on Fox Sports Radio After Mine at Cowboy Camp. Leighton Vendoresh.

Randall Cobb's on the show. Jason Witten is on the show. So Travis Frederick's on the show. So he's got it all lined up if you're listening to our Locksports Radio affiliates. He told us why the Cowboys should sit tight on paying DAC. Jerry Jones is not getting any younger, and he sees Miami as a legit possibility, maybe even likelihood.

Jerry, in his own mind, thinks if we're ever going to do it, the time is now, and we can figure out a way to make the money work, but we just have to get all of these kind of ducks in a row. The crazy part about it is, for example, with Dak Prescott, they're really not under any pressure to give them a contract, If they don't, they can franchise them next year. It's like Marissa Tomey and my cousin Vinny, right? Her biological clock is ticking.

That's Jerry Jones. Like my football clock is ticking here. Let's get it to do a Super Bowl. Yeah, we'll see. There's the Cowboys turn. Wentz, Eagles got that thing all locked up, didn't make the news. I bet you my homes. I get that thing all locked up, won't make the news.

It is typically Dallas, bit of a circus. Coming up, speak for yourself, why the Cowboys should let Dak finish out his current deal. That's where the guys are landing. Whitlock, Wiley, speak for yourself right now. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you.

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Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kier Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with.

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