The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Draymond Green Show - Jamal Crawford Returns

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

Jamal Crawford joins The Draymond Green Show to discuss coaching his son, being depressed after not making a roster, knowing Draymond was going to be an All-Star level player, Mark Jackson instilling confidence in Steph Curry and Klay Thompson on the Golden State Warriors, pioneering the 6th man, Klay coming off the bench, the problem with NBA media, Victor Wembanyama's greatness, the Clippers having a title shot this year, and much more. 0:00 Start5:00 NBA sons12:00 Depression19:00 Mark Jackson25:00 6th Man30:00 Klay Off the Bench39:00 Wemby's Potential47:00 Joker vs. Embiid57:00 Clippers Winning It All? Produced by: Jackson Safon #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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21 plus age varies by jurisdiction, void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See sportsbook.draftkings.com slash basketball terms for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible gaming resources. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Draymond Green Show.

I am honored to host this next guest, which has already been on the Draymond Green Show. Six men of the year three times. made that whole thing about a six-man have any relevance. So we're going to get into that. But first off, we're live, well, live to you. Not necessarily live right now. But we're at Hinkle Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, Indiana, All-Star Game.

But this legendary place, honored, thank you to Butler University for having us in this gym. Now, I see this banner up here, Final Four, 2010 banner. and I'm not happy about it because Gordon Hayward filed me to get that bad. He clearly fouled you. It's insane. On the front of the newspaper, his hand is like this. We're down one to go to the national championship. And so, yes, they would have had the banner.

But it says national finalists, and that should have been me. And I think that we would have won the championship. Nonetheless, I'm thankful to be here. Maul, welcome to the show. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back. Repeat offender. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yes, sir. Man, I got a lot of topics to get into it with you. One being, and I want to jump right into this, I think, you know, when we start looking at the NIL culture and, you know, where college basketball is going, it's all stemming from AAU and what AAU has done. And you are at the heart of that with Seattle Rotary.

Yeah, young fellow, JJ, coming up in the pipeline. Just want to start off of what's your attention? take on where the AAU game is right now? That's a great question. And I wasn't really a part of AAU culture before him, to be honest with you. Like, how many years do you play AU coming up? I play AAU from sixth grade to 12th grade. I played AAU two years, period.

So I played in fifth grade, left when worked on my game, and came back and played my last year. So I wasn't really hip to how AAU works, to be honest with you. Then I got back in it through him just being a lot of you. parent. I was the parent before I started coached him that kept score. I was just keeping score. You know, I didn't mess with the coaches. I was just right there just keeping score and that was that. It gave me a way to kind of

watch him in peace a little bit. You know what I'm saying? So I just kept score. And then as Faye would have it, I started being an assistant coach. The coach asked me, Daryl Hennie shouts and he runs the whole program. It's his program. And then I got to become the coach. And what I've seen is it's kind of nasty

in some ways. In some ways, it's kind of, I'll be honest with you. of nasty from the standpoint. Some of these coaches, they want the top kid, they want to fly kids around. And I'm not falling the kid at all because if you're coming from where we come from and somebody's like, I'm going to get you some shoes,

some flights to see the rest of the country. Parents, and they trust the coaches, all good. But them coaches, man, they're playing through kids in some regards. They're not really helping them. They'll have, you know, just older kids or whatever it is to try to say, look at me, look what my team is doing.

your guy trap does it right. One of the few to do it right. I mean, like, we've talked where it's like he's really pouring into the kids. He's not for the wins and losses. Now he's trying to help them later, and that's what we're trying to do. Myself, we're one of the only staff

to have all three coaches that play D1. Wow. Myself, Keith Smith, to play to Oregon and Pepper Dine and Rayleigh that played at UC Davis. And so what we're doing is, with our team, we're trying to, we watch a film,

we're practicing three times a week. We're doing the skill stuff that's like what's in your bag, We're doing the skill stuff like, no, fuck was just in your back handling. This may be a catch-and-shoe game. This may be a game you got to take charges. This may be a game you got to give yourself up to get the team, you know, good shot. So we're teaching that because we're teaching them how to play now,

but more importantly, how to play later and be good young man. So for us, that's what's about. So that leads me to my next question. A lot of young NBA, well, a lot of NBA players now have sons that's coming up. You got JJ, Trevor, Areza, Todd. Gilbert, Elijah. And there's been a lot of talk about Gilbert and his approach with his son

and everybody is also approaching. I think Gilbert has been very public about it and saying, you know, he wanted his son to learn how to carry. And so he kind of sends him to a school that's not great basketball. I think it's Chatsworth or something. Not great basketball team,

but he's the man and he get to do whatever. And that's a different approach, right? And then you have some people that, you know, send their kids to powerhouse. I know you went to Rainier. I don't know if you were sending JJ there or not. But what's your take on kind of the approach of sending your kid to a team that's essentially trashed and he gets to do what he won? But may not necessarily be learning how to play the game the right way or going to a powerhouse like a Rainier where there's a pedigree. You're going to play it right way.

Coach's probably been there for a while. Or there's some type of history there that you follow. What's your take on those two philosophies? That's a great question. So for us, let's just say a rotary right now. I feel like we got nine players. I feel like basically all nine would be the best. They can go to any other team and be the best player.

But I have all of them playing as a team. And for me, that's needed because I want them to go for good to great. Yeah, you have to be a dog and a killer. But for me, setting the foundation for them, I want them to know how to play the right way. So we actually car ourselves as the Warriors. If you watch this play, like the ball's hopping, we've mastered random, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, and travel tell you, like, we shoot a lot of threes, but they're generated off of like good plays, good possessions.

So I'm teaching them to function playing with other good players. Now, for JJ especially, he's playing up, right? So they're eighth grader. He's in seven. So he knows he's that he's benefits a lot of it often because of the ball movement. But next year, he's going to play if grade. And he's going to have to carry a load. but he's ready for that too.

So what I did to supplement that is, I had him play for a school team, I had him play feeder, and he does that there. So he's getting the best of both worlds. But I think knowing how to play is the most important thing, because as you know,

you better than anybody, as the higher you go, the smaller the box gets of greatness for everybody, but it's also like, this is the top of the top. So you can't just go in there being a one-man band.

You can't just go in there being a one-man show. You have to learn, the better you get and the higher levels you go, you have to learn to play with good players. Absolutely. So either way, it's going to be an adjustment. But I think you still get that dog,

and I'm not faulting Gilbert because he's doing it his way and it's working. So, yes, but at a certain point, even his son's going to have to, you know, conform and not how to play with other people and still not lose itself while doing it. Yes. I think that's a very important thing and not losing yourself. Because sometimes you get to the league or it happens for different people at different stages.

Sometimes it's high school for some guys, college for some guys, NBA for some. Like, I was a score until I got to the NBA, you know, and then you got to figure it out. Right. And so, but I think that's interesting from you because what I've watched in you all these years and playing against you, but even going further back or just watching before I ever got to the NBA, you've always known how to play the game the right way. But yeah, you've also had coaches that's like, here, Ma, go do your deal. Like, go do your shit. Go to ball.

You call a pick and roll whenever you want to. You flatten out. You call an ISO whenever you want to. And it sounds like that's what I'm hearing. You say, like, I'm essentially training JJ to be the same thing where he can mix you. He got all the stuff. But yeah, he know how to play the game. And with JJ, right?

And let's say he plays his grade. And he's like, dad, I can get 40. I'm like, yeah, 40 is cool. I would rather have you get 28 and 12 assists. That's more than 40. And I told him, I said, Luca, how much did he have?

He said, he had 73. I said, everybody had 13 assists too. The trick is this, all great scores, the more you pass, the easier it is to score, right? Because you put them in a trick bag.

So if you have, even the game, I'll ask him at 51 points, I have five assists. Yes. Right? So I'm like, if Luca only had five assists that game,

they may have been a 55 point game because they know he's just going to score. Yeah. But the fact he had 73, and now he has 14 assists, they don't know how to guard him. They put him in a trick bag. If I can make,

if I can have JJ look at one player, just one player and he had to study one player, it would be penny harder way, but a better shooter. Because I want him to be able to really like, to do this as well as score. And right now with him playing up, the physicality kind of bothers him to do that

because he can actually pass and dribble as good as he can shoot. But you'll never know it until he kind of, his physicality catches up to his game. That's incredible. And switching gears, you just, you just spoke about having, you just spoke about having 51 points. And, I mean, you've done that. But I want to talk about something with the NBA and with veterans and how it kind of happens for guys towards the end of the career.

And it's becoming more and more prevalent now, especially with the new CBA. Right. You got veteran minimums where a veteran would be making $3 million and they can get the young kid for one point. $1 million in a situation like to go to state warriors, that $3 million is actually $15 million. It's $15 through the tax and everything else. Because it's the tax. And so...

I know it's that high stuff. Because we're in a repeater tax. Yes. And now you got that first April, second apron. I'm not mistaken, I think we're already at the second April. And so the penalties are crazy. But it's putting guys in a tough situation as well. Here you are, you score 51 points.

And then the next year, you're not on an NBA roster. How is that possible? You know, and so just where the league has kind of gone in a sense of veterans and the effect that is having on these young guys, what's your take on that? It's awful, Jay. And this is the thing for me.

And I've heard you speak about it before when you had the David West's, Germaine O'Neills, right? Like all those vets to really kind of set the tone for your career. I had Oak. I had Rick Brunson. I had Kendall Gill. I didn't know what I didn't know until I saw them guys.

Oh no, being on time is being an hour and a half early if you're a young fella, right? Saying after, you can't eat McDonald's before the game no more. Like that stuff set the foundation for my career. I think that's what's missing.

For me personally, I went team A of the year the year before. I go to Phoenix at first we're trying to win. They say we're trying to win. We're trying to make the playoffs. You can go back and check it out. Trevor Reasons gets traded. Tyson Channler gets traded.

Now it's just me and Ryan Anderson there. So now we went from trying to make the playoffs, So we just, we're going young. Mm-hmm. And so now you got to be a good vet, right? Yeah. And you should want to because you've had your run, but, you know, it's the younger guys turn. That month, the younger guys are like, they're not, a lot of, not playing.

And now I have my highest scoring month of my career. I have 31 for the month of April. Wow. 31.6 assists off the bench and we won half the games. And we didn't win shit that year. So one and a half the game was impressive. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And y'all were getting mopped at you. I remember. I remember you. Absolutely. And so one and a half the games was something to me. I averaged 31,

six assists. The last game, I get 51 and 5 off the bench. I just won team at the year. I'm like, oh, I know I'm going to get a deal. I'm not saying

I'm going to get anything above minimum, but I know I'm going to get a contract. Yes. I get nothing. And so I went through moments of depressing. Like, damn, I couldn't even watch basketball. Bro, I couldn't even watch. As much as I looked at,

I love basketball. I couldn't even watch basketball for a year and a half. I didn't watch basketball at all. At all. And then the bubble happened. And I came back for that. And that's a whole other story. But I hadn't played in 16 months or whatever. But I was depressed and I didn't know it. And my wife told me, she like, you would go to rooms and just kind of disappear and come back. And I never said this. I would go to rooms and kind of disappear and come back with the fam and just like, because I couldn't understand. understand why I was not getting a call. I didn't understand it. And all these same teams, once you come be a coach, why don't you come run the front office? I'm like, oh, see, respect my mind, respect that. But you just don't want me on the court.

Yes. And that part messed me up, and it took me a while to get there. And then I had to be really reflected. I'm like, okay, if God said you have to go out, this is the best way I can send you out. Because, you know, obviously he knew. But it was just crazy to me, and I think Isaiah's going through it right now.

Not the depression part, but just certain days, where you're like, damn. And I think what it is is, I think when you've had a following for a long time and you go to a team, that fan base is gonna wanna see you. And that could be kind of a distraction

for a team that's trying to grow young people. Interesting. And it took me a while to get to that point, right? Interesting. So if my name was Jamal Johnson and I was just the same vet, maybe I get signed with the same credentials, maybe I get signed.

But if I'm me and I have some type of following and people want to, no, put them in the game. It could be a distraction. But well, I will say to answer your question, sorry, that was so long wind. No, that was great. I appreciate it. There should be a rule that on every team,

you need three guys that have 10 years and more experience. Because you can help, like, slow some of the things that are happening down with the younger generation on and especially off the court. Because, you know, we see it. Like, no, no, no, slow down. Like, you got to move like this. And if they just have one,

and it's still a bunch of young guys, That's not fixed. They're like, man, it's old, dude. But if you have three or two or three are like, no, no, y'all need to slow down or you need to slow down, I think they hear it a little bit differently. I think that should be a mandatory. It'll help the league.

I think it'll help the young players. It helps set their foundation. I agree 100%. I always talk about my vets that I had and how important they were to my career. Like he was just talking, Jermaine O'Neill, Jared Jack, Carl, David West, Zaza Pachulia,

David Lee. Like, the list goes on. on, Andrew Bogot, like, Andrei Godala. Yes. And like these things, right there. Like, I play with all those guys. All those guys I just named with between years one and five, I play with all those guys. And the things that they taught, Richard Jefferson.

Yeah. Yeah, I have RJ. Okay. The things that they taught me, like, when you look at my demeanor on the basketball court, when I first came into the league, like, I was me, but I'm like, man, I can't get text. I can't do this. And RJ was like, yes you can.

You should get text. That's the only way you're going to make it. It's like being that guy. You have to be okay with that. And I'm like, yeah, RJ, but I don't want to find at the time. I'm making a few dollars. I'm a second round pit. Like, I need this.

And he's like, but you have to look at it as an investment in yourself. That's real. It's like you just have to be okay with that. Because who you need to be for this team, you got to be okay with getting some of that. Speaking of two, you when you just said it just hit me when you said when you start playing in david lee a lot of people don't know david lee was an all-star i'll tell you a conversation i've never never said before i remember

it vividly you could ask stuff at the time i had some buzz to make the all-star so to stuff yeah yeah and i remember the game before maybe a week before they pick i'm like step you think he's like i think he's like i think it's going to be me or you one of us going to make it david lee made it i remember that Lee makes the All-Star, fast forward a little bit, you basically replace and kind of take over that position. We played you in the playoffs. And we're all on the side, like, oh shit. We knew what was coming.

Not the run, you guys were in going on. I'm not saying that. But you personally, we're like, he's a dog. He's a dog, and he can do it all. And that gave you guys a whole different versatility. Absolutely. And that made us like, it gave us pause, like, oh, man, like, because you can do so many things

that can't be accounted for and can't be duplicated, especially with your group, right? So we're like, damn, we knew you guys were coming. We just didn't know, like, where we would go, but we knew you were going to be at the center of it. And it was very interesting how it happened, too,

because, you know, as you know, during that time, you got Blake DJ. Yes. You got Zach and Mark Gassau. You got Roy Hibber and David West. Yep. You got, like, you still had Timmy and Tiago Splitter or Timmy and Boris Dia. Uh-huh.

Moral of the story, you still had, like, two bigs, like. Traditional, like bigs. Yeah. Biggs at the time. Real big. The Marcus Aldridge at the four in Portland. Yeah. Like, you got real bigs.

And it was interesting how it worked out because that wasn't me, you know, like, I could bang with those guys. So we were just talking about Michigan State and everything. everything that I learned with physicality and all of those things, I could bang with those guys. And I wasn't going to back down. But I was very much so undersized for the position. For sure. And so the way it didn't, you look at it now,

and it's like, it feels like an eternity ago because the way the game is played now. He was way ahead of the curve. Do you get Mark Jackson credit for that? Like, you know what I give Mark Jackson credit for? Because here's what I will. Like, I can't give Mark Jackson all the credit for that style. And by the way, Coach Jackson, to me, is like, that's, like, it still baffles me that he's never got an NBA job.

I can't believe it. It's insane. I say all the time. It's crazy. It's insane. I can't give him credit for that, per se, because the switch for me started, like, permanently, actually came under Steve. Okay. I don't personally think Mark had the blessing or okay to even be able to do that.

Because you think at the time DeLean is making $16 million. And an all-star. An all-star. Right. And this is at the time where 16 is max, you know, like, 16 is 40 now. Exactly. Right. Like, people here 16 and they're like, oh, like, that was max at that time.

Right. And so I don't think he necessarily had the power to even be able to put me in the starting role. Whereas opposed to when Steve came in, Steve came in with a whole different power. People forget when Steve first came in, he came in with a five-year, $25 million deal. When that was a ton for coaches. Yeah, for sure. He was a first-time coach.

Yeah. He came in with a totally different power. So, but what Mark, but where I do give Mark credit is the confidence that he instilled in us to be okay with being us. The confidence that he instilled in Steph to be like, no, I do, like, I can remember vividly conversations. him like, no, dude, you're the baddest dude on the planet.

This is before Steph Curry's an all-star. Bro, he says Steph and Clay were the best shooting back where we all was like, is he crazy? What's wrong with you? Everybody, though. Absolutely. What's wrong with you do? Why are you saying these things? We're like, wearing me, this, we're in the locker room, we're in practice.

And he's like, dude, you're the baddest dude on the planet. And I'm just sitting there like, this dude's really telling him he's the baddest dude on the planet. Steph was just now starting to come into his own. Like he's coming off the angle injury. I remember my rookie year. Start my rookie year before training camp actually starts. This is when they're in and talks about giving Steph to a four-year $44 million contract.

And Tyloxin, Drew Holiday, they all signed that same deal. Marjorose and they all signed the same deal. And I remember this clearly. Steph came in for an individual workout, the owners, front office. doctors, everybody sitting at his workout as if we're sitting here in Hinklefield House and Steph is working out right there. Like going through the draft process or something.

Watching his workout because he was coming off the ankle surgeries. So they're trying to figure out through a workout, is he healthy enough to give him this $44 million? That is crazy. It's the most unbelievable thing. Meanwhile, Mark Jackson is telling this, man, you're the baddest dude on the planet. Clay Thompson, like, Clay has no conscience.

Zero. Sometimes to a fault, but guess what? What I've learned is your biggest fault can also be your biggest strength, right? And so sometimes even to a fault, most coaches would have essentially forced him to have a conscience. For sure. Mark Jackson fed that like, no, dude, you don't think shoot. Like, what are you thinking about? Shoot the ball.

Right. You're that good of a shooter. This is the best shooting back court of all times, blah, blah, blah. And so what Mark instilled in us allowed us to become that because the confidence that he gave that he poured into us, I remember the very first day I stepped on, one of my biggest pet peeves is when people call me too small.

Like, oh, he's too small for the position. So David Lee got the ball in the post. Dee Lee, that's my dog, that's my vet. D. Lee got the ball in the post. And you know D. Lee, you played with D. Lee is my rookie as your vet. That's crazy. D. Lee's an asshole. Yeah.

Like, I love him to death. Smart, Alec, and all that. Absolutely. Yeah, that's D. Lee. So D. Lee gets the ball. He catches the ball in the post. I'm on this side. And he's like, oh, I got a mouse.

I got a mouse. Mouse, y'all better come home. All that just turned. He's holding the ball on this side. I reach over, snatch the ball, throw D. Lee down. Take off. Like, don't ever fucking call me a mouse.

Are you crazy? Mark Jackson is pouring into that. Yeah. He telling me right away. As soon as I get drafted, I'm on the phone with him. I want you to come in here. I want to see the same Draymond Green I saw at Michigan State.

Leadership, blah, blah, blah. But he's saying it and meaning it, though. Absolutely. So he instilled that in us. Like, where we believe. So then Steve come in, Steve implements a great offense. Mark Jackson had our defense on point already.

Steve comes in and take the offense to the next level. So that's when the magic happened. And not only does Steve take the offense to the next level, but Steve takes the winning ways to the next level because he's one of the ultimate winners in this league. Yes, he is. Like Steve Kerr, if you look at the NBA, Steve Kerr, Phil Jackson,

Pop. Pop, Pat Riley. Yeah, it starts getting very short after that. When you look at, when you bunch that group of guys together, they account for like 40-something championships in NBA history, if not more. That group of guys. Steve Kerr is in that group.

He's in that group. Of guys. He's the ways, the thing Steve Kerr has taught me about winning is insane. And so what Steve then brought was like that, the offense and the winning ways. And think about what you just said. You said Steve Kerr, Phil Jackson, pop.

and Pat Riley. The other two he played for. Absolutely. So all the knowledge he got from those two, right? And they may not see it exactly the same because I know Pop comes from Larry Brown coaching tree. Right? Yep.

So it's like the knowledge he's given, I'm sure the details you're getting, the game you're getting is just, that's priceless. Absolutely. And so that's where it really changed for us. Like, Mark instilled it in this, but Steve took it to another level.

Okay. So that makes all the sense in the world. Okay. And which came at an interesting time because then that's also the time that we're running up against y'all. Live City. Yeah. You coming off the bench, which leaves me to my next topic, six men. So I feel like you're in a very interesting space right now where you're becoming more known for TV than you.

are for like we talk lou will louisle great what loo will did love it but that started with you and you're now becoming you're not far removed from playing no but you're becoming more known for tv before we get into the tv thing talk to me about your place in a six-man goat conversation how you like you were kind of one of the first guys that really embraced that and make that

a thing. Talk to me about that and like... So I've won since I was a kid. I won as a kid. I won in high school. I went to Michigan. I only played 17 games, but we won 13 of them. I wish y'all lost 13 of them, but we'll talk about that late. My first one I missed was Michigan State. Moe. Mo Pete, Matine Cleves, Charlie Bell, that whole crew. And I remember speaking of which Dick Vitel was coming to, he came to Christ the first time of years because we

We wasn't doing much before that. That's the first game of NCAA. Here you go. The first game, NCAA tells me I can't play. And so it's an ESPN game, national crowd. I'll never forget, Michigan State won the game. But Mateen Cleese came to me like, little bro, it's all good, keep your head up. And that meant a lot to me because here he is.

He's a rock star. He's already a rock star. You know what I'm saying? But he came and showed love. And I felt supported, even though I didn't really know him like that at the time. But I've always wanted. and in the NBA, at this time, Dre is like, first off, there's positions.

You plan a point, you're playing a two, you're playing a three. Yes. And also this thing, like, oh, he's a good player, he's on bad teams. And I was tired of being known as that. And his fate would have it. I got traded as, this is I'm going to start. My last year was in Golden State. I leave and Steph comes the next year.

Because I play with Monte. I play with Jack, right? Wow. It was between the, it was a transition between the, We Believe Team with BD, and, I mean, Monti at the moped, and then Steph coming. So it was that little gap right there.

And so I get traded to Atlanta, and they already got their starting file. They got Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Bibi, Al Horford, Marvin Williams. And Coach, and Woody, I love Woody. Woody was like, you ain't gonna start here. I'm like, I ain't got no ego. I'm cool or whatever.

I come off the bench. I'm the second-lead score average 18. I should have made an all-star that year. Let me speak to that real quick. Yes, sir. I hate that people ask people to sacrifice. They come off the bench. If I was starting doing the same thing,

I would have made an All-Star team. I average 18. My team is, I think, second in the Eastern Conference when they select at the time. I should absolutely be an All-Star, but not he comes off the bench. So it's frowned upon to select me, but you give me all this praise for sacrifice.

That don't add up. Something's not right with that. And then, Lou Will, fast forward, he goes through it. He averages 20 with the Clippers. He should have been an All-Star that year. Yeah. One of the top fourth quarter scores. But anyways, I go there, I do my thing.

And what I did know at the time, I won a sixth man, was that it was changing the perspective of how the Sixth Manu, Janovey was Sixth Man. Manu, Janow was Sixth Man. It was appreciated. But I almost gave it swag and gave it a face. Yes, sir. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, okay, he's Sixth Man. He got game. If he can do it, oh, it ain't so bad. Because, you know, in our community, Come off the bench is frowned upon. Absolutely. Period. Absolutely.

A childhood. Are you on star? Are you weak? That's just how it goes. But come off the bench, doing what I did, doing it with swag, and still winning games and doing that, it gave it a face. And now every gym, like you said, I'm in the A, you are. So every gym I'm in, because it's like six men, I want to be six men, too. And that wasn't the case.

So it's dope to see that. And one thing that's most impressive. And I saw this stat. And I'm not flexing, I promise. I'm fourth all time and fourth quarter scoring. Fourth, I'm the only person that's off the bench in that conversation. And it's crazy. I think the other three since they've been tracking is LeBron, Kobe, dirt, myself.

Wow. Off the bench. So I wear that with pride because it's like you got shit done and move mountains, even though you're coming off the bench. That's interesting because Manu obviously was a sixth man for the majority of his career. But it was looked at way differently, to your point. It was like, oh, he's a starter come off the bench. He's sacrificing.

Absolutely. Like, oh, he just don't want to start, so he's comfortable coming off the bench. So I was never viewed as, like, him being a six-man. No. It was actually viewed as you, like, being a six-man. Because it was like, Manu could do all these things, and I was more like a specialty, special teams-type dude. So it was more myself, Lou, we're looked at as that.

But to answer your question about the Go conversation, I would never say I'm the goat of that. I think I'm in the conversation because I think everybody, Lou has an argument, Manu has the argument as a champion, Jason Terry, Hardy came off the bench before.

Lamar Odom, like there's some dope six-man. Ben Gordon was cold to win rookie year and six-man the same year. So I give all them dudes are flowers. Kevin McKill,

obviously, that left shrimp. But I think I'm in that conversation and however they see it, they see it. But I think you let others sing your praises, so I let other people say it. But to get that respect,

and get that love, you would never know I was a six-man with all the love I get from people. Clay recently just came off the bench for the first time since his rookie year. Like, 35-p. Shout out, Clay. Like, since his rookie year. What would you say to Clay?

Like, should he embrace that and say, you know what, I'm going to be the sixth man? Should he continue like, no, I'm still at this level. I want a fight to be a star. What would your advice be to a play, Thompson. I actually reached out to Clay.

Wow, really? I reach out to people all the time, but I actually reached out to Clay before he came off the bench. And I'm like, because we talked about it on TV, and everybody's like trying to bury Clay. I'm like, dog, he's still average 17 points. It's crazy. I said, Clay is, the fight is with himself

because he's been so legendary for so long, right? Yeah. 17 points on a great team is great. Clay's battle is that and obviously the injuries and everything. But with him, I'll tell him to embrace it. It can give him a whole other wind. Like we don't see legendary players like that. Man, I know we talked about,

but legendary, legendary guys like that who have had four-time champions, average in 17, like, I'm going to come off the bench. Now you're seeing second unit guys. Now you're the focal point of the offense whenever. Like, it gets you in a rhythm. Forget the off-the-bench you're starting. You're going to have better numbers doing this.

than you would as you're doing it right now. And you may have more of a focus. And you may have more fun. That's why I told them in the message. Like, bro, have fun. At the end of the day, like, have fun. Enjoy this shit. Because I'm here to tell you on the other side of it now,

it don't last forever. You don't want to look back with regrets. Like, man, the last few years, I was mad at it. Like, enjoy it because it goes so fast. Like, and you've earned that. A lot of people haven't earned that right. You've earned that right.

Like, enjoy it. Embrace it and have fun. And speaking on the other side, I mentioned earlier, you're becoming more known for TV personality and speaking about basketball, which I think is great, like, because that just shows the success that you're having and doing what you're doing now. But it brings me to a conversation of you're now on that side of things,

but obviously you've done what you've done. But we live in this world today, and speaking to Clay, where certain people talk in this media space, and it's like what they say is viable. Like, all the such and such said it, that's Bible now. He said this or she said that. That's what it is. Let's talk about that.

Please, let's talk about it. Go. You got it. My problem is basketball is one of the only sports or only things where you don't have to be a professional or a judge professional and get people looking at it like you're the gospel. Absolutely. And it's crazy to me.

Absolutely. Bro, I can't walk into Microsoft and tell Bill Gates create this, or no, what you're doing is wrong. You're supposed to do? Think about how I'll be looked at. Yeah?

If I walked into Microsoft and I'm telling Bill Gates how it should look and what should be done. And this is Bill Gates. They look at you like you was out of your mind. Like I'm on something. Absolutely.

But we allow it. And that kills me. So I know exactly what you mean when you say new media because it's crazy to me, like, there should be a certain credential that you have, not to speak on the game. I'm not saying that everybody's free to speak how they want.

But to say it with your chest out, like, yeah, and I said it, so you guys are going to fall in line for this. Ain't that crazy? It's insane. And so that part kills me. That part kills me. And that's why I think I have a responsibility

to be in this space. And I've given so much of my life to the game, as you have. as like certain people have given their life. And for me, I'm not a hot take dude. And what I'm saying, I don't mean, I may not say something that goes viral. I'm saying I'm always following the game.

Yes. And I feel like the game will always lead me where I need to go. And I owe that to the game. The game's giving me everything. It's given, nobody would know who I was, period, if I didn't play the game. Right. So I owe the game, I'll never cheat the game. And so my thing is always follow the ball.

Follow the game. And if I follow the game, I'll be able to say what I feel is right. and what's wrong. And you could do it in a way that's not tearing people down. You're just getting a point across and be real about it. You know, what's crazy is I always tell,

like, football players, like I'm envious of you because they can only really watch and see, man, did such and such run for X amount of yards? Right. Did he throw for this amount of yards? What was this complete? How many passes did he complete?

How many receptions did that guy have? How many yards? But there's so much going on on the football field that people actually shut the fuck up. Like they're not going to, they're not going to talk and analyze the game of football, how they try to do the game of basketball because everybody in their mama think they know the game of basketball. But when it comes to football, why though? I don't get it. And so I always tell people like, why do you think you should say that to me?

And it's interesting because you get one or two reactions. Sometimes you get a reaction like, oh, my fault, bro. Like you get right, right, right. But sometimes you actually get people that's like, no, no, because this and that. And I'm like, yo, do you realize I study this? More than anything. Like daily all day, you watch a game for two hours. I live this, breathe it, study this.

What makes you think in your right mind you notice the way I do? And they're watching it only from the lens that benefits them or whatever they want their narrative to be. We see the game from so many different levels. I can tell you from the star point of view, I can tell you from a bench player's point of view, I can tell you from just a teammates point of view, I can tell you what the coach is thinking,

I can tell you all the front office is trying to put it together. We see it from so many different angles and a totally different lens. You can't even comprehend. So what makes you think you know more about this than me? I'm not saying we can't have a great conversation about it, me and this per X, Y, and Z, but I'm just saying in general,

what makes you think that you're like, no, no, what I said, this is it, and this is going. And you may even bring up a good point within the conversation, but you don't know more, bro. You just don't. You ain't put enough time in. Absolutely. And it's the bravado that comes with it.

Right. Like some of these guys that gets talking, I'm just sitting there looking at him, like the nerve of you. Like, the nerve of you. Like, how dare you? How dare you? Say that. The nerve.

of you. But if I come at you, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. But who validated you? Oh, you're a bully, right? Like, who validated this thing? It's in that, and now, especially with social media, right?

Uh-huh. That's like a whole different thing because I'm sure some of these same people have the same thoughts, but now we hear them, we see them. Mm-hmm. And it's like, and now they're even. louder because now they have a voice. And we might respond to them. And sometimes at the end of the day,

they didn't even care about what they were saying. They just wanted a response. They wanted your attention. You know what I'm saying? So now you got to decipher through that. It's just a whole different, it's a different era, different generation, but I feel like we need more basketball people in basketball.

Absolutely. Talking the game, in the front offices, coaching, like, we need that more often. I feel like that's needed. Absolutely. The game will be in a better place because of it. 100%. We spoke earlier about your involvement in the game,

how you continue to get back. I saw the other day you were showing Wimby and a couple of young guys some moves. I don't think he pulled the move out in the game. You talked about having 10 new moves that people weren't seen. They never seen them. And they would have seen them if I made just one all-star game. This is my plan, right?

This is my ultimate plan. If I made one all-star game, And you know, your first off second, how many minutes you play? 11 maybe. So that's what I'm thinking. If I make it, I'm ready to play seven. But it was going to be seven minutes of funk. Every single time down the court, I was going to do a new move.

Every time I touched the ball, I was going to do a new move. So how T-Mack had that moment we threw off the glass and everybody talked about it, I was going to release one of those moves every single. I'm like, I'm never coming back here again. Why not? Why not, right? They're going to remember me. And that was my plan.

And so I never made it. And so now it's like, they're in the vault, bro. They're just sitting there. And I'm not passing to JJ yet because he's young. He's going to do it at some point. It'll take more a while to learning, but he would do it. And I want him to do it when he's really there and he's ready for it. So that he won't see him either.

Nobody's seen him. Even the Wimby moves like that was just, we had him on and I asked him if he could do the shake. He's like, yeah, I learned that when I learned the sham guy. And I say, yo, if you do it in the game with who you are and, you know what, I'm gonna just give you the full version of that move. You can have it, and nobody's seen it. Because it happened, I've only done it once. And it was when I first did the move.

When I first did that move, I was 16 playing a pro-am, and I did the full version of it. And the guy, I was going, let's say I'm going that way, the guy went all the way to the left. I was going so fast I had to catch myself on the wall. But that version I would give to Winby, and I promised you it would shut everything down. And if he does it, nigga, he's been practicing.

I saw him practicing the layup line in Miami. again, social media, sent me a video. And I saw it. I said, oh, if he does it, I'm a sure to him. But I wasn't doing it that day because, one, he didn't do it. And two, all the players start watching, too. I'm like, well, damn, if I give him the move now, everybody's going to do the same thing.

So I was just freestyle. Tell me this. So I watch Wemby. I haven't got an opportunity to play against him yet, but I watch him. And he's a special talent. But I think it's going to be important for him to figure out what it is. that, like, he almost can do too much. And it could possibly get in the way of his teammates

because he start to float and you don't necessarily know where your place is on the court. Right. Right. You know, like, now he up there. And, like, great scores are going to move around, but most great scores, you know, like, you know where they get in it at.

Wimby sometimes can get it here, get it there, get it all over the place. And I feel like as he moved forward, it could possibly interrupt the floor of his teammates if he don't learn how to shunner. What's your take on, like, his next level of growth and becoming who he can be in the league? Before he came in the league, I said,

and I said obviously he has a cheat code and pop, right? But I said his skill, whatever he does best early, we don't know, but it'll be highlighted, right? So pop's going to play him to a strength, whether that's pick and roll, whether that's setting the pick, whether it's catching on a certain block, whether it's getting in transition, whether it's trail threes, whatever it is.

is they're going to highlight that. The cheat code is pop, though, because I don't think Wemby's best attribute is scoring. Yes. I'm not sure what it is right now, but I called the game when they played the Hawks probably a month ago. And Drea was crazy because he does stuff you're not supposed to do. What I mean by that is he may do stuff in space,

you're like, oh, that should be a floater. Yeah. Like anybody else, that would be like, oh, he got to a spot, that's a floater. He's getting to that spot and he's reaching around Dunkin. And you're like, what? Like, that don't even add up, bro. We ain't seen that. And then that game in particular, this is what I love about him.

Pop brings him off the bench the second half. Really? Brings him off the bench the second. He starts the game, obviously. He didn't like the energy. That group had brings him off the bench. And he came in in that second half, and he scored 23 points, but it wasn't that he's blocking everything.

And this is what you'll love about him. He's a little thing. It's good. as the talent he is, he's a little things dude. That's his game changer. So he's better than the hype. Not because the shit you can see, it's the shit you can't see.

He's a little things dude. Every single time he's sprinting, try to block shot. Every single time he's running, every single time he's in the right area on help. Every single time he makes the right play, he's a little thing dude. And this one really got me. After the game, I'm walking out.

He's in the weight room. He sees me. He drops the weights, he comes down, he shakes my hand, he doesn't even say nothing. He just puts his head down. Like he wanted some wisdom or knowledge. I saw he's gonna be great because he wants to keep learning, the drive to keep getting better,

but the little things he does, besides the big things you see, is why he's gonna be out of it. He's actually better than the hype. It's scary. That's insane. Like I said, I haven't gotten an opportunity to play against him, but I actually think,

to your point, I think his best attribute is his defense. Yes. He can control a game defensively right now, better than he can offensively. Yep. And he's already pretty amazing offensively what he can do. In the Rising Stars game, he literally locked down the whole key. And I said it, I said, to win this game, you're going to have to get a mid-range shot. Because you can't go in there and you can't pull up a three.

And my guy, I want to mess up his name. Buzellis. Went to a mid-range. And I told Bezellus after the game, I said, I'm glad somebody did because you weren't going in the key. Even the shots he doesn't block, he alters. You're thinking about him. Oh, I can get this one off.

He goes and gets one. You're like, damn, I ain't seen that. Like, he's, we use the word different so much, but he actually is different. I think what he is, for real, I think he was a guard that he just stretched all the way out. So he sees the game like a guard. Yes.

He's not like a big trying to dribble. He sees the game like a guard. Oh, boom, boom. That should have went right there already. shoot it. He's like, I'm like, damn. He's a different breed. I see it in person.

It's crazy. The little things is what separates him, though. So if you're starting a franchise today, all the guys in the league, you starting it with Wimby? Is my franchise trying to go for it the next three years? Let's say, you're starting to franchise

and, you know, you're the owner of the franchise, so you, could be tough going all in in the first three years. You know, like you try to go all in the first three years. It can possibly set you back another five for six years. That's what I'm saying. Going for it in three years. So just say you starting it in the runway is the runway.

Oh, yeah, for sure. It's no doubt. If it was three years, then it's like a joker, right? Or it's like M.B. But if it's like seven years or five to seven, yeah, it's him for sure. Now it's just about who's going to play with him. And to your point, okay, what does he do best where we know what to put around him? Yes.

You know what I'm saying? So that part of it. But if it's that, it's without a doubt he's the one I'm starting. Joker, M.B., who you're rolling with? And why? M.B.'s more dominant in that regard. And he should have won an MVP if he doesn't get hurt. But I think Joker, we just factor in health.

I think he's, and health's nobody's fault. But I'm just saying his style of play, he doesn't use athleticism. I have. to go a Joker. Joker's playing the game backwards. What I mean is my man averages 30 points and he doesn't want to score.

That's fine. That's a fact. Brother, I don't want to score. Here, here, here. And he still gets 30. Then he can still play big boy basketball as well. But the way he flows and the way he plays

and he's like, he plays a lot. Like, he's not missing games. And it's not, nobody's fault. Like I said, I had injuries. I missed a year before. But I have to go a Joker.

And you just spoke on health, which brings me to probably the hottest topic in the NBA right now. The 65 game limit. I don't like it, Dre. I don't like it. I love the fact that we want everybody to play. Shit, I was in year 17, I played all 82. That's crazy.

So I love the fact of playing. I was, man, for years I've been saying before low management, low management, when dudes were still practicing, low management practice. Because these kids, low management practice so these kids can see everybody playing. It's good for the league. It's good for the kids. It's good for the games.

game. So I'm all for, this is not a low management answer, but if you're injured, or you feel you're injured or you're compensating something, and you're like, I have to play just to meet a quota, to be eligible for an award, then that's the part I have a problem with. Because you know where, at the end of the day, the people that are voting, they still don't have to vote for that person. Absolutely. So we're going to save them from themselves? Absolutely. Oh, he plays, if this rule is never in effect, he plays 63 games, he had a great 63. I have to vote. No, you don't. Yeah.

That's your choice. So I have a, I think somehow, I'm not saying the intent was wrong with getting guys to play because guys should play. I mean, very clear about that. But if they're injured and they can get injured worse, trying to be out there to meet a quota, that's the part I have a problem with. Like, we've actually seen two guys that happened to already this year,

Joelle. He's actually playing against us when he just heard his knee. Yeah. I mean, I had already heard that the knee was not doing it in his face. And they told us like, if it wasn't the game thing, he wouldn't play tonight. And he played, hurts the knee. We've also seen him, we're here in Inglefield House, Indianapolis.

We've also seen it with Tyrese Halliburton. Tyrese came back from the hamstring. He's on a main restriction right now. Too soon. Yes. He's now been back for three weeks, and he's still on a minute restriction. Still on a minute restriction. But he's forcing it to get back.

Why? All-MBA. Because if I'm not mistaken, all NBA actually affects his contract, I think. Yes, it does. I think maybe $41 million. Absolutely. $53 million. So he's forcing it to get back for that.

But say he missed three more games before pushing it to come back, right? I don't think you're looking at that at the end of the year. Like, he missed those three more games. He's not all NBA. No, you're not. You're not. So we're trying to save the voters from themselves because we're not technically putting it in a place

where the guys are going to play more. He may miss more time if he gets hurt. Absolutely. Like Joe left. Yes, exactly. We don't even know when he's coming back, right? And that's not good for the game because here he is having an MVP season.

He's not playing the All-Star game. His team is hurting. His team is their second, third, fourth, and fifth player can be the best they can be and it won't matter if Joel and Beat is not there. Absolutely. So that part, I understand what they were doing, like I said, to get people to play. We want that.

As fans who watched the game and talked about the game, we want that. Absolutely. So we're not saying that. But also on the other side of that, we can't have guys risking their health if they're injured trying to further play and injure themselves more. It's the unintended consequence. Right. That's the problem. Right.

You know, you're getting these guys who really hurt. And it wasn't necessarily intended for them. but they're catching a consequence for it. For sure. So what's the right thing? Okay, if maybe it's not, I think it shouldn't be attached to their money. I'm not a component of he has to play this many games to get eligible

or all NBA to get eligible. I mean, that's a bonus, obviously. I'm not sure what the right thing is. I'm sure they've had these conversations. They've had to, right? You made All-MBA? I have before a couple times. A couple times.

What's your take? on it. My take on it is, I think the 65 game rule is pathetic. I think I totally understand wanting to get guys on the floor and have it. But like this is the NBA. We know when somebody really hurting when you actually like low manager. Right. So my thing is do the work. like really do the work and know who's actually low manager because they keep all these notes like every time I go in the training room

everything's track now it's tracked yeah so you know the truth right you know if I'm in there L and every day with this knee and all of a sudden two weeks later it's just gotten to a place to where I probably can't go tonight you know

you know because you've seen on my law that I've been in that training room for this right knee. Every day. Every day for the last two years. Before and after practice. Every day. I have to be in there. Or else it's just not in a good space, right?

So my thing is do the work. Like, don't punish Joel and be, because say this. Say if Joe was hurting at that time and then he missed seven games instead of the two that he missed. He missed seven. And then he comes back healthy and on the same terror that he was on. Can he still win MVP? Can he still make an impression on voters who's the last impression in their mind was how he was

dominating? Then he missed seven games. And then he'd come back and pick right back up there. Can he still win MVP? If he can in the voters' mind, then let it be. Let it be. What if a person runs in player X runs into player Y's knee or, ankles, that whatever, and he misses 10 games because of it,

how are we penalizing him for missing 10 games? And that part, that's the part that needs to be tweaked. And now he's not eligible because he may miss four more and then two more. And now he's not eligible for, or three more, whatever. And he's not eligible to be for those awards. You don't have to vote for him, but he shouldn't be penalized if he has real injuries to deal with. That's my thing on it.

I agree. You sit on the side of me. now, I sit on both sides currently, but and also understanding that media makes decisions that does, that can decide whether Tyrese Halliburton makes 53 million. Is there a better system that we can come up with than time? Because here's the thing, I may not like a reporter, and that reporter may not like me for whatever reason. Maybe I didn't give them an interview when they wanted an interview.

Maybe they said something that I didn't like and I said something back to them and they didn't like that. And so then they don't vote. Should we still be in a space where our money is decided? By their emotions. Because they're human beings.

Like you can't tell me they're not biased. They're human beings. Right. No. Hell no. Are you serious? No, no way. There's no way because they're going to always feel personal

about that. Absolutely. Or I said something and I didn't like how you respect. in front of people, now I'm a little embarrassed or whatever it might be. No, and that's why that part of it is why we love that you're in media.

We love that players are in media because you guys are in, are in it, like truly in it. You're in the locker rooms. Like, I hate when all a source said this. Put a name to it. I used to, back in the day, Dre, is I would see something somebody said,

they would have to wait because you got to think, This is just papers, just newspapers. So something comes out, the next day it comes out. By the time you address it, the next day, it finally hits the papers. So that's a two to three days span. Absolutely. So I love that players are taking the power of their own.

You can end it in two seconds. Literally. You can have your own press conference for millions of people in two seconds to get things right to straighten things out. And I love that part of it. Before we get out of here, who you got winning it this year? I think, to be honest with you, I think the West, Denver's always there.

I think Phoenix is built for the playoffs. And I don't think they're done. I think they're going to get a guard who can kind of organize and kind of, I think they're missing that. And I think they're missing the backup big. And I think the clippers are rolling at the right time. They are. I saw your eyes jump up when I said the clippers.

Take yourself out of it. Now I need you on the media side. You ain't the player side right. Now I need you on the media side. Are the clippers the one team that you look at like, They can really go do this if they stay healthy. For sure, because they have everything. They have a Hall of Fame point guard.

Yes. They have a Hall of Fame shooting guard. They have a Hall of Fame small four. Yes. They have a Hall of Fame point guard on the bench. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Now.

And maybe a Hall of Fame coach. Absolutely. Yes. Now, aside from that, they got Biggs and Zubops. and who's kind of more of a bruiser. And then you got Plumley, who's kind of a little bit of a bruiser, but also fast and athletic

and can keep up on the perimeter and, like, can pressure a big that can't necessarily handle the ball and get back to the rim and defending real. They got Norman Powell off the bench who's scoring the basketball at a very high clip. They got role players.

I think they have a lot of, Now, health is obviously for anybody. Everybody has to be healthy. But I think they have anything that you need to compete for a championship. And like you said, it's coming together at the right time. But also, aside from them having everything that you need, they got guys that need a championship. James Harder need a championship.

Paul George need a championship. Russell Westbrook need a championship. So they starve. They hungry. And guess what? All those guys I just named are closer to the end than they are the beginning. Right. So they know that.

Way closer to the end than they are the beginning. So they know. This is it. This is probably my best chance and last chance. Right. If I don't do it now, it don't happen. It don't happen. You know?

And so I think. And then now you put all that into account, and you got Tailu orchestrating it. And Talu know what to do. He knew what to do. In those situations. You don't panic. At all, you know.

We know, go there, Tau Loo. You know the love I got for me. This man brought us back 3-1. I don't want to talk about it. But Tad-Lu-I-I-Lu-N-I-I-Lut-E-Lut-Clippers because, you know, we came a long way with that Warriors-Clippers thing. Absolutely. But, you know, we smacked them up enough to where I can get at love

and, you know, be all right with it. I got two questions for you. Talk to me. You remember when Word got to us when all that happened, that if we walked out and didn't play, you guys was on board? Is that real? Were you guys really not going to play if we didn't play?

100%. This is when Donald Sterling, the recording came on with Donald Sterling, the game that night, if you go back and look, the game was us versus y'all. This was Adam Silver's first big decision he had to make. Shout out to Adam Silver.

Yes, it was. been the best commissioner. By far. Probably in the history of sports. But this was his first big decision that he had to make as the commissioner of the NBA. And it was Donald Sterling with the Magic Johnson thing,

the recordings coming out, the race is recording. And we had a game to play that night. And Steph was talking to Chris. Dee Lee was talking to somebody else on y'all team. Andre talking to CP as well. And we were talking about work. are we doing if the announcement essentially doesn't, if we don't approve, and it was, well,

we're going to go out there on the court, like we're lining up for the jump ball, and we're walking off. What effect do you think it would have had had we done that? I think it changes. Now with how things are and how the world is. I think it changes the landscape of the NBA. I think it changes the landscape of how athletes view themselves in this whole athlete's place, how athletes view their place in this whole business.

Because as time has gone on, we figured out more of our place, but we still don't have a stake in it. And I think with that move, if we had to make that move, I think we have stake in it right now. So that's a move that could have outlived all of us. 100%. It would have been on CNN. It would have been on, it would have been everywhere. And what it shows you most importantly is, all right, guess what? Go play.

Go play. The game don't go on. It's over. We're done. We're not playing. We're walking off. The game doesn't go on. On one of the biggest stages at the time, right?

Us versus y'all. Playoff stage. Playoffs. Beef. You're right. Everybody's watching that series. It's over. You're a warrior.

Give me four other war. I know we're about together. Give me four other warriors. You go to warrior. They can't be on your team. Just in the league from your perspective. Can't be on my team. In a foxhole.

Okay. Warriors. Like you got it. We're going to play in the roughest, toughest, whatever in the world. I need four warriors to go with me. No pun intended. Not warrior warriors.

I'm taking a... cannot be on my team. No. They can't be on the Golden State Warriors, but I'm... Four that are built like you to go somewhere. I'm taking, uh, Braun. Okay.

Um, I am taking Jai Morant. Mm. He ain't backing down from nobody. That's a great call. Okay. What Jaws say, I'm running up to Chia. I'm running up.

I'm running up. I'm taking Jha. I'm taking Bron. I am taking, uh, Hmm, that's interesting. That's interesting. I'm taking, um,

because here's the thing. They're with me. I can bring the dog. So I just need guys who got the dog. Like, as long as you got it, enough for us to stand on, I'll bring it. You bring it.

So, jaw, so I need you to be nice. But we need the dog too, though. But that's what I'm saying. So these are guys who are guys That are dogs. Oh, absolutely dogs, but they're nice. But, like, they're nice. Yeah.

So what tasty cake is how good they are. Right. So I need those guys. Okay. All right. I'll do the other shit. I can't wait till these last two. So I'm taking those two.

I'm taking, uh, I'm taking Joker. Man, y'all, they're talking about. That may be the most shocking thing I heard today. Man, that dude, an animal. He is animal. He's an animal. I just told you how great he was. He an animal, though.

Like, he don't talk. No. He don't flonnet. You ain't moving him off his spot. No, hell no. You're not rattling him with nothing. Nothing. Like, nothing's rattling him.

Nothing. He's an animal. I'm taking him. And he's nice. Oh, he's, he's all-timer already. I'm taking Joker. You got one more. And my last one I'm taking is, uh, Shegilded Gilder's Alexander.

Ooh-wee. He talked to JJ. yesterday and it wasn't the and I'm saying that to say this it wasn't the all what's up it was like the talk you had with him in the Bay in the finals it was a real talk and to hear him I said he's a he's a dog he's a real dog he ain't no fake dog like he's a dog absolutely and so his mindset was impressive to hear so it's you ja SGA Braun and joker. And then five dogs can go anywhere.

Anywhere. And get it done. We're going to Serbia. We climb up to shit. That's what I'm saying. Anywhere. We're going anywhere. That's true.

And we got obviously the talent. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But each one of those guys that I named stand on business. May do it quietly. May do it. Yeah, some are loud. Some are quiet.

They're going to do it. But they stand on business. And I respect that. And you're talking guys like, these are all guys, by the way, that carried load. They stand on business, though. And they do. And they dogs.

And I got nothing but respect and love for those guys. So like the common answer would be like Pat Bev, you know what? Right, right, right. But like, I'll bring that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'll bring that. Like, myself, I'll bring that. So give me somebody

who a dog, but they can go do all that other shit that I can't go. And them the guys. Do you see anybody else? that can be, who can be the next, not to a T, not perfectly molded, who can be the next generation of you in the league right now? Yeah, my way. Tari Issa. And you said that quick, you've thought about this.

Yeah, I love that kid, man. And I don't know what's happening right now in Houston. I haven't seen him play a ton, but I haven't heard a ton about him. So I don't know if he's playing a lot this year. You know, it can be tough with coaching. changes and different stuff. Directions and organizations, all of a sudden they was getting smacked last year,

white, like mobbed across the court. And then now you bring in E-May, you bring in Frey, you bring in Dillon Brooks, you bring in guys, Jeff Green. Winners. You're trying to change it. And sometime young guys can get lost in that, you know? And so I'm not sure if he's gotten lost in or not.

Like I said, I haven't seen them play a ton. But from what I've seen from him, he can dribble the ball. He can shoot it okay. But you can, you can, like, you can better a jump shot. Crazy motor. Yeah, you can better a jump shot. Yeah, you can work on that. So he can dribble the ball.

He's a good athlete. He's not crazy freak athlete, but he's a good athlete. Great length, great size. Rebound the ball ain't, like, not soft at all. Right. Ain't backing down from nothing. Like, does the little. things.

I say Tari's, now, you got to get in the right situation. All that, but he's the one. But I love his game. I love what he bring to a team. And I think he got a chance to be like that next guy. If he embraced it, though, you know, because a lot of these young guys wouldn't want to embrace being me, you know, like, it's not sexy. But it's so important.

I've very rarely, and I've studied the game for a long time, very rarely. have I seen two teammates that were it's connected and leaned on each other like you and Steph. And it's amazing, when I watch it, I just, I laugh. I'm like, this is, because when I was in competition, I didn't see it. But now I'm like, this is beautiful to watch

because you guys are switching roles within the game. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's crazy to see. And that's the Chinese riddle. That's the one that nobody can figure out. It's so funny, you say that because CP, and being with us now, he come up to me,

and he's like, yo, you and Steph should switch positions now. Like, you take the ball and him running to drags. I'm telling you. I'm watching it. And me and C haven't even talked about that,

but I can see it. It's crazy to see, but it's beautiful. And you guys will go down just as the connection of two players in their success. I mean, obviously you have the Jordan's Pippen,

Shackab, all the, but you guys will go down up there with duels that are just as connected. lean on each other just as beautiful. I appreciate that, bro. No, no doubt. My man, Ma, thank you.

Always, bro. Anytime, you already know. Man, always a pleasure. I could talk basketball with you all day. Savon. Thank you, my brother. You're Savon, bro. Absolutely.

For sure. One of the goats, it's a wrap. Appreciate y'all. Peace.