The Herd with Colin Cowherd - GoLow Golf - LIV vs. PGA Latest, Big Picture + Early Open Bets

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

John discusses the recent developments in the LIV golf vs. PGA war,  and how it fits into the golf gambling landscape, and the early best bets for The Open with the Tour Junkies pod crew.  Follow John and The Volume on Twitter, Instagram and YouTube for the latest content and updates and check out FanDuel for the best wagering and daily fantasy action! #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The three and out podcast with me, John Middilkoff, is presented by Fandual Sportsbook. There's no better place to make every moment more than with Fanduel. Great odds and markets for baseball, the NBA, NHL, PGA, Tours, and so much more. awesome new and existing user promotions. America's number one sportsbook, very easy to use, safe and secure. You get your winnings fast.

I cannot recommend it enough. Love gambling with Fanduel. If you are new, just download the Fandual Sportsbook app to get started. Now sign up with promo code Colin so they know we sent you. What is going on everybody? John Middlecough back at it again. Here's the deal. Here's the plan.

This is going to be a little bit. GoLopod. At GoLopod is the Instagram. You guys know the deal. Fire in those DMs. I have on Dave from the tour junkies. They're a gambling podcast. Dave and Pat, I've been listening to them for a long time.

They go deep into the wager game every single week. Go check them out. For golf betting. And I'm a huge golf better. May or may not have just made, you know, three Gs on JT Post and thank you. Big win for me and JT. And we are going to come back on Friday.

with a football podcast, sports podcast in general. I mean, a lot of stuff going on. USC, UCLA, not quite NFL. There'll probably be some NFL news trickling out in the next couple of days. So we'll talk a little football. And talk to Greg McElroy. That'll come out next week. Have a couple other guests for the following weeks.

And St. Andrews, the Open championship. The Open. That was a terrible accent. It wasn't an accent. We'll do something on that next week with Sobel. I already have several major. I have a huge wager on Roy McElroy, a massive wager on Justin Thomas.

I love to gamble. God, I love to gamble. And we'll just keep rocking and rolling from there. So this is the golf podcast. You want to get in those DMs at Golop pod. And we'll answer. I'll do the questions next week for the open podcast. At John Middilkoff is my Instagram.

Been a little out of pocket. You know, sometimes it's nice to just remove yourself from social media. There's like the real world going on. Very, very healthy and refreshing to do. So slide up into those if you have any football or life questions. And we'll keep rocking and rolling. Here is my interview. You can find it on the tour junkies pot as well.

I'm going to put it out on this feed. I hope you enjoy. I love his takes. He's a take Smith. Follow each other on Twitter. Had to have him on the show. I want to talk about live golf. I want to talk a little golf gambling.

First of all, John, thanks for meeting up and agreeing to do this, buddy. Yeah, what's going on? I've been listening to you guys. I'm a golf gambling addict. And I've been listening to you. You two for a while now. Especially the long shots. I love listening to that part of this week.

I mean, we're recording this as John Deere is going on. Like, listen, boring field. Yeah. But when you gamble, it makes you pay attention, you know? 100%, man. And we both got some cash on JT posting. He's also a good start, our buddy JT. I love that, man.

I love that you're a golf, diehard gambler like us. And, you know, we're definitely not professionals. But we've been doing it for a long time and love the long shots. Love the chase, love the sweat of golf. And actually, you know, I think that, I think that's one thing we can kind of get started here if you want to talk about it, John. We were talking about Live before the podcast started and just thinking through like how Live could, how Live is going to fit into the gambling landscape, right? Because right now, there's only a few books that have the regulations and everything set up for you to gamble and live golf. It's available primarily on like bet MGM has a lot of states available.

But like doesn't it kind of suck though when you think about I mean, I hate betting on a WGC event because it's like no cut. I feel like I lose a little bit of the edge. The field's so small. Like what are we going to do with that? Like what's going to get you jazzed up? I know you love top 10 bets. Like betting a top 10 and a 50 man field sucks too. I know.

So I was I was at the gym and I have I got ESPN plus. The ESPN Plus is done a great job if you like gambling on golf because you can watch so much of it on Thursdays and Fridays and even like Saturday and Sundays on the morning when you're watching specific guys. And I had it up and like you said, I'm watching JT and he's just fucking birdie after bird. I'm like, hell yeah. And then I'm like, whoa, I got to check out Pumpkin Ridge so I flip over. And whenever the first event happened, remember they had like 100,000 people watching it one time on you. It was like Pat McAfee numbers and it was big and I flip it on. and I wasn't quite sure if it was live

and I've never played there so I couldn't tell the course. It kind of looked like the course that they had just played, a couple of the holes I saw. And then I realized it was Pumpkin Ridge and they had 10 holes left. But then I'm like, what am I watching?

I'm not gambling on any of these people. You know, Phil, scruffy Phil. It's like what, and again, I am not anti these guys leaving, totally understand why they all did. They all have their different reasons, all different points in their career. You know,

you can argue over individuals, but like, listen, when you hear Bryson, who no one likes him on the PGA tour, he tries to get on the packboard, they won't let him on. So he's like, you guys don't like me. I can't. I'm a YouTube addict. You won't let me YouTube, which we can say whatever we want, but that's a legitimate rule. And he's not allowed to do that. And he's obviously doing it there.

So he leaves. It's a problem. I like, I enjoy watching Bryson. I remember last year when it was playing him in Westwood going at it at the Arnold Palmer and him, bomb and drives. Like, that was fun. Bryson is, regardless what you think about them, an important cog to the PGA tour. You can't just lose, like the NFL doesn't just want to lose like Tyree Kill or Nick Bosa.

Like he's an important member and just star of their league. So I'm going to pay attention and it's clearly only starting. But from a gambling aspect, once they get that figure it out, I do think that could impact, you know, someone like me who ultimately I just want to consume golf and I want to consume the best golfers. I love like you. I like playing golf. And I love watching the best guys, you know, dominate. It's fun.

I enjoy the PGA tour. But a part of that is because they have Tiger, Phil, Rory, you know, Jordan, whoever. And now you keep stealing those guys. Obviously, the names change as you age or whatever. But it's, it's, I mean, it's one of the bigger stories in sports because of all the elements, right? The money, the politics, everything. Yeah. And I don't, I hate it when people say, like, because,

I mean, if you followed us long enough, you probably know I can't stand Bryson DeShambo as a human. I think, and most people don't. Yeah, I think he's duchy. He's a hundred percent something the game need. He's interesting. I want to watch him. Other people want to watch him. And I totally respect what he did to his body and to his game.

Like, it's incredible. So mad props there. But I don't like it that these people don't understand on Twitter and on whatever. When they're going like, oh, all lives got is a bunch of washed up guys. and guys that, you know, all the tools of the PGA tour, you know, and they're dogging on Matt Wolf and they're dogging on Brooks and they're talking about how bad these guys are playing. And I'm like, y'all, we are, we are not that far from Brooks. I mean, Brooks should have won the PG, could have won the PGA championship last year.

He was in the final group. He was head to head on, Phil. Like, Brooks is not going to be a guy. He won the waste management in 21. Won the waste management? Yeah. Like, it's, these guys are not that far out. of this thing. Matt Wolf is going to be a good golfer for a while, I think. Still, his game has

definitely suffered lately. He's had some mental battles he's been struggling with. I don't know that getting a, you know, ass ton of money from the Live Tour is going to help him all that much, but he's got a ton of talent in there. And all the villains, all the villains that the PGA Tour needs and make interesting are now, you know, over there at Live. And so, like, for me, I guess the big picture is, like, when do we press the panic button as? as golf fans and golf nerds because right now what I hate is that this whole thing feels so fractured and segmented and diluted that I'm worried that both products are going to be so diluted with talent that neither one of them are going to be all that exciting to watch that's I completely agree I'm with you on the Matt Wolfe slander it's like two and a half years ago when the trio was coming out right him Hovlin who were teammates in college and Colin if it was the NFL or the NBA, we would have been discussing one of those three guys

is going to go number one in the draft. He would have been in the mix. And early on, it was like, is Wolf the best one? Obviously, Morikawa's resume is the best. And you would say Hovlin has been more consistent than Wolf,

but Hovlin's been terrible in majors. Yeah. Wolf was right there with Bryson at Wingfoot. And he kind of came out of nowhere a little bit on the weekend at Harding Park, but I think he finished fourth. Yeah. I saw someone say,

I'm trying to look it up right now, but it's not coming. that his season actually this year is not as bad as the way people are talking about it. I think he was like 57th and FedEx points. He's not like going to, he wouldn't been like off the tour on this pace. He's just having a rough year. But relative to like most people, he's still bracking up cash. And he's 23 years old.

Yeah. So I'd argue him and Bryson and Kepka. Like I do think you could stomach losing DJ, even though he's the most accomplished of kind of that crew in terms of longevity. Yeah. But Kepka's got four majors. And the way we judge people in golf is majors. And Wolf is a stud young player who's having some rough times, but you do not want to lose him.

And Bryson, villain, whatever you want, is a star. And really, I would say, Speeth Rory are probably the truly most famous with casual non-diehard golf people. I do think Bryson has entered that chat. 100%. The last, the last year, like you just met, if you just went to an SEC game and we're just bullshin with a guy that loves sports, he would know who. who Bryson DeShambo was, even if he doesn't play golf. And you can't, golf is not the NFL or Major League Baseball or, you know, big enough or, you know, European soccer where you can afford to lose, or the PJ Tour specifically.

And I'm with you. I don't want, I just, I don't care what the tour is. I just want the best players all playing with each other, right? I wish this week at Pumpkin Ridge or at John Deere, we just had a crew of the majority of good players, right? Yeah. Which is not going to be the case. It's only going to get worse, clearly.

And yeah, we'll talk about that. Like, but let me ask you this. As we look at the world golf ranking, and we kind of start to play the world golf ranking game, at what point do we truly start to panic? Is it, you know, is it Tony Fee now? Probably not. Is it Billy Horschel?

Probably not. The number 14th running player in the world is Sedecki Matsuyama. He's another major champion, a master's champion. He's a worldwide draw, and he's massive. I got a British Open Bed on him, too. I think you might have mentioned it or I was listening to someone. I was like, yeah, you know, he hit that three wood at the, at the U.S. Open, you know, when he was in that little low, it's like, Hadecky's got a lot of shots.

If he's on, you know, he could dominate over there. And the short game. I just came back from Scotland. Got to play the old course with the bleachers and leaderboards up. How awesome was it? So incredible. But, you know, it emphasizes a lot on the short game too. But in the deck, he's got loads of that that people don't give them enough credit.

Very flat greens, right? It's just, it's not much undulation. It's just very flat. No. That almost shocked me the most. because, like, people say that about Augusta all the time. My hometown, they're like, wow, I can't believe until I get out here how much undulations on the greens. Like, you can't tell from the TV.

Same thing at the old course. Like, those greens are not flat at all. Oh, they're not. There is a ton of undulation. Like, a ton of undulation. Got me in a ton of trouble, plenty. So you could put some crazy pin positions out there. Yeah, I think the greens are very similar.

Outside of speed, they're very similar to Augusta. Lots of up and down, lots of undulation. But, I mean, is Hideki? Is Hideke in the same class in terms of if we lose, if the PGA tour lost Hedekke, is that like losing a Willsau-Torres, a Jordan Spee, a Justin Thomas or a Rory or a John Rom? Yeah, but I would say maybe internationally for him. I think maybe I look at it more domestically. I think it's very important.

Like that's why losing Kepka and Bryson. Yeah. Like once DJ went, you felt like, well, maybe he's just over it. And he kind of had this weird vibe the last couple years, even though he was still really good. you could stomach it. To me, Bryson and Kepka were just like gut punches. And I would say it would be American group. Like what if Xander and Kantley, that little duo both bounced.

Yeah. Did you watch the Brooks? I'm sure you did. Did you watch the Kepka press conference the other day? Yeah. I love the three of them sitting at the dais. The PJ Tor should do more of that. I do like that.

Multiple guys up there kind of getting peppered at once. Like, but I mean, my hot take on this is like, I just, I'm over Kepka's. Puff guy attitude. Like I was in the, Pat makes fun of me out. My co-host, Pat, Perry, for those you that don't know, Pat, one of the times that I really almost sent Pat to, you know, barfing in a brown bag is when we got press credentials for the 2020 players championship that the week that the whole world shut down.

I was there. We had press credentials. And I asked, you go to the concert? Who played on Wednesday night? Chainsmokers. Yeah. Well, I'm in the press room on Tuesday and Brooks is up there. and I wanted to ask him a question because the week before, Adam Scott had been pictured

and played a tournament wearing baggy pleaded pants, you know? And I was like, holy shit, our pleaded pants, is that what we're about to do right now? Is all that coming back? You've got to be kidding me. So Brooks, being a, you know, fashionable Nike guy or whatever, I wanted to ask him if Nike threw down some scripting for you this week, you know, some pleaded pants like Adam Scott had last week, what would you do? Would you wear them? And he just, and I was just having fun. just a lighthearted question. It was a dumb question, right? And I do dogg on a lot of the members of the golf media

for asking really stupid questions, and here I was asking one. But he could not have been a bigger jackass to me for asking that question, right? And I could have asked him the same old shit he gets asked all the, you know, every other tournament he goes to. But he could not have been a bigger jackass to me for that.

And then, like, week in and week out, I read every press conference. I watch every press conference every week. That's part of, you know, some of the stuff we do for handicapped. Gambling strategy, yeah, it's good. And he's just an asshole. every week. And to me, it's like, you don't have to be buddy, buddy with these guys. And I know they're asking tough questions that live, but you got to know that's coming, right? But like,

just, he was just dripping with arrogance and, like, this tough guy thing. And he, to me, it's like he acts like he doesn't care when really deep down, he cares a lot. And I, and I don't, I'm now officially out. Like, that press conference for me on Brooks, I was like, I'm out on the guy, no longer a fan. When the whole Brooks Bryson thing was going, I was Team Brooks. I was like, go Brooks,

go Brooks, go Brooks, because I can't stand Bryson. Now I can't stand either one of them. But like to me, his whole attitude in that thing was just so shitty. Well,

to me, I was, I played in like a Skins game on last week, if you're listening to this, and I was, we were having some beers and bullshitting. And we're just talking like,

last week at the U.S. Open, for him to pretend, and I know he's won there, like he's a U.S. Open champion. It's like, bro, your fucking brother joined.

Your brother who I was looking on Instagram, looked like he was the best man in your wedding. Your brother joined. So I would give you some leeway if you were like Zand or whatever. Like, you know, I got to stop asking me these questions. I have no connection. Your brother played in the event who, let's face it, would not have sniffed live the PJ tour anything if his name was John Middilcoff.

Yeah. So clearly, and I know you're a big college sports guy. what happens usually in college sports? I get like a brother to get the other brother. You know, I hire a cousin on my staff to get the kid. It's like Brooks. It's a pretty fair question for you specifically when your brother was there. And then a day later for him to be like, yeah, we didn't even, we just started talking about it.

Like the other thing is golf, I would say the golf consumer, a huge part of the sport is when you're on the course, you're either gambling with your buddy, even if it's $1, $5, $10. You're talking business. Like money is incorporated in the sport. So like these guys can say like, listen, I got a lot of money. Most of the consumer understands what's going on. So for him to keep talking like this, like him and DJ clearly aren't as close they once were. I would say the big difference when him and DJ, DJ is just much more just easier to deal with. It may, it might just be his personality or whatever.

But like does it feel like DJ is always getting into these things with the media? Because he's not like as contentious. So it's like, Brooks. I don't understand why you're acting so angry about this. When you just set yourself up a week ago to freak out about it, when your brother was in it previously, so everyone was like, why is he so mad right now? It's just, I'm with you, he's just, he's kind of an angry guy.

Yeah, what we've all wanted since this whole thing came out, I think even the fans and even the media that like have really, really, you know, shit on this whole idea, we all just want these guys to be honest. like Pat Perez's answer in the in the press conference was somewhat refreshing. Well, you tweeted it out, right? Yeah, he still didn't say much about the money. He didn't say much about it.

He didn't get as much as a lot of the other guys, so you don't want to just throw out. He gave me 10 million. Yeah. You said next to guys that got 150. But at least he was pretty candid about it. You know, look, I'm old. I've played in 500-something events. Like, my ass is tired.

That's all you need. Like, if these guys would just own it, it would be so much, it would be so much better. I like Pat, but my issue there is not that long ago. And listen, I'm a believer in money talks. It clearly does in every walk of life. But he was one of the most outspoken guys to Colt and Slees shitting on the thing on their podcast, talking crap about Phil, talking crap about the whole thing. And then he did it. And again, he got $10 million is a lot of money to 99% of people.

But like the money he would have made, like he kind of just sold out like he was just over it. You know, and so he, and he kind of pushed back a little. I mean, they're all, like, I don't know what they expect, you know. Now, and I'm with you with the golf media like yesterday, I'm flip on the TV and Aman Lynch, who with Brandl, are easily the two most outspoken is doing a one-on-one with Jay. So it's like, Amon, you are, you have an agenda on this because you're in business with them. So it's like, we're all in business with different people. If you're just authentic about it.

Yeah. I think people, especially like our generation younger people, understand it. You know, at this point in time. Yeah, Amon's blocked us on Twitter. For some reason, I have no idea. Like, I don't ever remember saying anything to Aiman Lynch, but he's blocked us, so I don't know. Well, he's been tweeting, I mean, for months about it. But it's like, obviously he doesn't want the PGA Tour to go away.

That's where he makes his money. Yeah, of course not. Step up to the T and take a swing at betting the PGA Tour on Fandual Sportsbook. Right now, new customers can bet the tour with no sweat first bet. If you don't win, you'll get up to $1,000. back in free bets. Great promotions every day, safe and secure app, get paid fast. So see for yourself why FanDuel is America's number one sportsbook.

Download the FanDual Sportsbook and sign up using the promo code, Colin, to get started with your no-swet first bet up to $1,000. FanDuel Sportsbook, official betting operator of the PGA Tour promo code, Colin. 21 and over, and president of Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, 10, Tennessee, Virginia, or West Virginia. Must wager in designated offer market. Max bet $5.

Restrictions apply. See full times at sportsbook. Fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 533-4-2-Arizona, 1-88-88-7-8-8-8-8-9-9-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-7-1-7. Connecticut-G, 1-800-G, Colorado, Iowa, Indiana, Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia,

1-877-7-7-1-1-7-1-7 for confidential help, Michigan. 1-8778, Hope, NY, or text Hope, New York, Tennessee Redline, 1-800-88-97-87-89, Tennessee, 1-800-5-22-4700. Wyoming. Visit www.1-800-gambler.net, West Virginia. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices

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Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. I think, so let me ask you this. So, it ain't, going to stop, though. Like, I mean, it's not. When you bring up the Hadeckis, the Xanders, we don't know the Tonys. These, they're going to get a couple of these, especially like over the next couple months.

Yeah. Again, I was looking at the leaderboard today and it was like hard to the names, like only three letters. And I'm like, I don't even. Does that Phil? But once a couple of these guys, especially like a Kepka or a Bryson, like win. And it's like, damn, they just made four million. Yeah.

You know, or even got second and get two. You do wonder if a couple friends. guys in that top 25 bounce. Yeah, and if they bounce. Yeah,

it's dominos. The leaderboard's like playing a little wordal game or something. I saw Taylor Gooch say that he, I read an article today that he had claimed,

and again, he could be lying, that he had planned just his schedule was open. So when he went to London, he was just going to play because there was a lot of money, he thought he could make,

and then continue to play on the PJ Tour. But that day, once the balls flew, that he got banned, I think it's easy to say that now because I remember reading like he got a lot of money to go but it's just it's hard to believe any of these guys

so so I was at TPC Craig Ranch about a month and a half ago and I was I was credential media there I was standing on the driving range one of our close friends Charles Howell III comes up to me and he's an Augusta guy my co-os Pat grew up hitting balls next to him

at Augusta Country Club and he tells me we're talking about live and he's like dude I've had the conversation with Greg Norman. Greg Norman's talked to me. He's shown me and he's told me that they have a hundred million dollar account earmark for nothing but litigation against the PGA tour when all this goes down. And that's just to start. And they want to fight. Once they go through that, if they need more, they'll use it. And Charles was like, dude, these guys are ready to grow hands. And $100 million, like, I think I just heard, you know,

Phil throughout the whole numbers about what the PJ tour was sitting on in terms of a sludge. 800 million or something. And I've heard that the actual number after COVID is now, is the realistic number is like 300 to 400 million. That's what they had after the COVID kind of, and they blew through stuff like that. You're saying just in a fun. Just in that fun. And so you're talking, these guys have a third or a fourth just earmarked for what the PJ tour has totally to be able to fight this thing.

like that's one thing that that I think you know is coming is this the litigation hasn't started yet but but it's going to hit and it's going to happen and depending on what these majors decide to do depending on what the guys down the street for me at Augustine National decide to do it's going to make things very very interesting for you know for both tours can both tours exist so I was going to ask you this if you're Jay Monaghan today and you've handled it the way he's handled it up to this point what's your next move like what do you think people do well one one I saw Justin Thomas say that he's like the way that I'm looking at it now

is ultimately once we get sued because it's going to happen because a lot of the guys right are not resigning like Patrick Reed I saw resign yesterday he's like I'm out which again I get it everyone hates them but a lot of the guys are not you know the goches Phil's I don't even think Pat Perez a lot of the you work so hard you're not going to resign I don't think they're going to sue I don't think Brooks has either

no he didn't he said he didn't either so and JT was like well once they sue the PJ tour, they're basically suing me. And I was like, that's kind of fair, but there is no way that Jay Monaghan, when he threw down the hammer of the indefinite suspensions, acted alone. Like, ultimately, Roger Goodell represents the owners. Craig Sankey represents the institutions. If Drory McElroy, J.T., Jordan, and obviously there's a larger group of players as well, but like, they were on board with that. No, do you agree with that? Like, he didn't go rogue when he dropped the suspension. I don't believe, without at least talking to some of his high. in players because he represents them.

He ultimately represents the tour. If he did, to me, that's insane. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either, but my educated guess is he had to talk to some of them, which seems kind of crazy, why would they want the smoke? But I don't know. And I don't think it's the right move, man. I think the move is, I think he acted a little too quickly on the suspensions,

because now you're in a hard place. You are saying, okay, then I'm going to fight back and we're going to do this. But you're also saying out of the. other side of your mouth, I know I'm outgunned here, and I can't compete with this foreign monarchy in an arms race, right? That's what he said. So to me, I think you have to, I almost think you got a hat in hand before this thing gets too out of whack, and you don't have the players on your side with all the leverage, right? Because if they take a Hedekke or they take a Will or a Victor Hovlin or whoever, then it starts getting more and more difficult for you.

I kind of think it has to be like, all right, listen, we appreciate what these guys that have that have gone over have built here on the PGA tour, the names that they've already started to make for themselves, we feel like we can all work on this together. And we're willing to step back, reevaluate our suspensions, and work through this a little differently. I think that's the only,

because if he doesn't do that, it's a really crappy situation for especially golf fans everywhere, because that's where I think the product continues to stay diluted and fragmented. But I don't think he's going to do that. I think why he hesitates doing, you know, trying to, quote unquote, broker deals or work together is he's afraid that the money they can throw out that ultimately doing handshake deals, they'll just steal everyone and ultimately take them over because, let's face it,

Greg Norman has a legitimate vendetta against the tour. He does. To me, and listen, a lot of humans, I mean, I don't know about you, but I've had a couple in my day. But if you don't have the resources to take down your enemy, it doesn't truly matter. it just you being mad, the scary part about this guy that has this bandetta who wants, would love to destroy the PGA tour has the cash now. And I would imagine Jay and other people in a circle and the people that fund the PGA tour that are longstanding money people have to be a little nervous.

So they throw this haymaker. But if it doesn't connect like Mike Tyson, which it kind of doesn't feel like it's going to, especially if the majors keep letting them in, which, do you think Augusta? Phil Mickelson won the thing three times. Yeah. Like, DJ won. Patrick Reed is a champion.

These guys won the Masters. Yeah. Won the Masters. You know? The, the root. To me, if there were no Masters champion, Sergio, like, these guys, in the last, like, decade, I don't think the Masters drops a hammer. Yeah, I don't think that's what's going to end up happening either.

I think if they were, they would have already done something. I've heard rumors that they were going to drop the hammer. I've heard rumors that they weren't from people around here in Augusta. You think they suspended Phil or told them not to show up is why Phil didn't show up or Phil chose? I think what actually happened is Phil chose not to come. I think he truly chose not to come. I think that I would probably lean that way as well.

I don't think you wanted to smoke at that point either. I think you wanted to go into everybody around him as PR people. everybody's telling him to just disappear and vanish for a little bit. Because once he didn't show up to the PJ Championship where he was the defending champion, obviously they would want him there. Sure. Right? Yeah, yeah.

So let me... Phil's in a bad place, clearly. Phil is messed up. Do you get this? Because you're a content creator, obviously, and you talk about the PJ Thor. Do you have people on your Twitter account and your DMs saying what they're saying to us, which is, well, I have two things. We have people emailing us, DMing us.

Hey, are you guys going to cover lift? Are you going to talk betting on Liv? Are you going to talk BFS on Live? Now that that's out, Draft Kings is doing showdown content for Live. And then we have other people who are going, I can't believe you guys are covering Live. Like, how dare you cover Live?

And you're just giving it, you're giving it energy, you're giving it legs. You know, you're basically putting your stamp of approval on Live by covering it as media. Are you getting that too? Have you gotten any of that? Yeah, I mean, no, I guess my philosophy, now I get people that hate it

and some people that don't understand. I think a lot of people in the media, when they're really anti-lived, don't necessarily represent the consumer. I don't think the consumer really cares, but they do want to just watch whatever's easiest. And now fracturing, it does make it difficult on them.

My philosophy is like, I'll just talk about whatever matters. And right now live, and it feels like for the foreseeable future is going to matter. It's like, I'm sorry, like, once Tiger showed up to the Masters,

there's not much else to talk about until like the, until the guy, someone else wins it. But like, Tiger's getting 90% of the, coverage. Yeah. You know, it's just like it's just part of the deal. Golf's a little different probably than some of the major sports because they're so heavily weighted on the top three or four

guys. Like if Jordan's playing well, Rory's playing well. But that's what Liv did. They took the second most famous golfer of basically my lifetime, Tiger and Phil, and they took just major champion stars. So it's like, if they just had Sergio, Lee Westwood, Holter, no one would give a shit. But the moment they get Bryson, DJ, and Kepka, and honestly, Patrick Reed, For a golf audience is really interesting because people hate them. So it's like they got people that like even Pat Perez. I was talking about this yesterday. If he would have been one of the American guys, no one really would have cared.

I like the guy, but no one cares. But once they take and if they continue to take Henrik Stenson, right, he's the Ryder Cup captain. The rumor, if he goes over there in the next month and just waves, like that is a major, major story. He just quits being the Ryder Cup captain six months into his captaincy. I mean, isn't that insane if that happened? That's absolutely insane.

Have you seen Zach Johnson's quote about it about the Ryder Cup? No, what he said. Actually, I think I could... I can imagine, you see Freddie Couples today? He said like, he's not friends with Phil anymore. Like, he'll never play golf of them again. He's like, we're not even in the same universe as human beings. Wow, I did not see that.

Let me show you, let me pull this up on the screen. This is a quote from Zach Johnson. In order to play on the Ryder Cup team, whether your top six or a pick, you must garner rider cup points through the PJ of America, Johnson said. In order to garner a rider cup points through the TVA of America, Johnson said. In order to garner rider cup points through the PJ of America, you have to be a member of the PJ of America.

The way that we're members of the PGA America is through the PGA tour. I'll let you connect the dots from there. So ZJ is basically saying, if you're not playing on the PGA tour, you're not playing on the Ryder Cup. Well, think about who his crew is going to be, right? Tiger will be there if he can walk. You know, Freddie, I'm sure we'll be there.

They've been with Tiger. Like, it's just, it's clear who his boys are going to be. And they're going to be very, which is kind of sad because this last Rider Cup, which was a sweet ass kicking. Phil it felt like was playing a pretty prominent role around all the boys, right? And the other thing, though, is like they stole some sweet Rider Cup players. Like, I trust Kepka in a big match. Like, I trust DJ in a big match.

You know, Bryson, I don't know if I trust him as much, but he was fun to be there. Didn't DJ go 5 and 0? I bet on that at like 40 to 1. He won five points for US this year. Well, I think who became his BFF, like one of the best young players. Him and Colin are like boys. So it's like that pairing split. So it's just, yeah, it's, this story's not only not going away.

It feels like the internet in like 2002. It's like only starting. Yeah, people that come at us like that. I'm like, look, dude, I just quit my job 100 days ago, my full-time job 100 days ago to do this tour junkies thing full-time. I got three kids. Like, if everyone in their mom is talking about live and people want to gamble on live and people want to bet on live, then I'm going to talk about it. Like, now it's my job. And as members of the media, like, that's what you're going to do.

Well, and think about this. The four biggest events in golf are always going to be the majors. Like, that is not going to change. What is going to be the biggest stories in those majors moving forward when those guys either being allowed to play, those guys doing press conference? A lot of those guys are champions of those tournaments.

I mean, it's just, I'm with you. I think you'd be crazy anyone. And honestly, it's like you turn on, you know, the PJ Tour tournaments they're talking about it. Like, Liv is working from a publicity standpoint. Yeah, they sure are. Let's talk golf betting, man. I want to hear about your affection for golf vetting, your strategy, what you love to do, what you've, you know, who's your guy that you constantly lose money on?

I'd love to hear that. Yeah, I've had a lot. I mean, I've lost a lot of money on Tony Fee now, probably Gary Woodland as well. I mean, we all have our guys. I think I've been gambling. I'm 37. I've been gambling on sports probably for close to 20 years. But only golf now, no, I'm like on the course when I was.

playing against someone else for maybe two years. And there's just nothing like the return on investment. And if you watch as much as we watch, you kind of get a little bit of an edge on certain guys. Now, you can also become emotionally too close to certain players. But I got probably the first year only thing I bet on were winners. Because there was just, you could get really good players at like 35 to 1. And, you know, in the NFL, if I take the Patriots over the Jets, if I bet $200, I might only win $170.

Yeah. If they're the favorite. But if I, and I've hit winners before, not many, but once you do, it's hard to like, once you hit JT,

20 to 1 to win the players last year, it's hard not to keep dabbling in winners or DJ a couple years ago when he won the fall masters. But you also, you know, can go dry for long periods of time. So I would say I have dramatically pivoted to putting less on winners and probably bigger bets on top fives and top

tens is something that, like the gala last week at the travelers. I had a pretty large bet on him to just top 10. And it hit. And it just gives you so much more wiggle room on the top tens. To me, top 20s go closer to like the NFL odds where it's like one to one, unless you're betting true long shots. But when you can get really good, like the gala last week was 10 to one to top 10.

Yeah. And to me, him and Davis, Davis Riley is another guy who has cashed some. I love betting on two guys that, feel like Sam Burns and Scott De Sheffler of a year or two ago that are going to win. Like it's inevitable. Honestly, both guys could win several times over the next two or three years. They don't go to live.

And you can still get them sometimes at like 40 to 70 to one range. Yeah. Right. And that means their top five or top 10 odds are eight to one or four to one, which is what you feel pretty good about placing, you know, quote unquote, larger units on than you would because you bet even $100 on someone, you know, 20 to one. that guy could miss the cuts, which happens a lot, you know? Yeah, I love that about golf gambling for sure as the return.

It's the, it's the juice you get out of the squeeze betting on golf. I've bet on the NFL. I bet on college football for quite a while. I quit doing that all together about five years ago, just strictly on golf. I just love it. So it's always fun to talk that up with you. I watch a lot and I rely on guys like you that, like, I don't really study the strokes gained, off the tea, you know, you know, obviously around the green, the putting, clearly that

matters. And in certain tournaments, and you guys do such a good job on like, because this does matter, right? West Coast guys on the West Coast swing, the guys that are comfortable in the Florida swing and that types up, their, their history, right, on Poana or Bermuda or what, like, that shit really matters. But I don't even know where to look. So I come to you and you guys do a great job because that's something that I've really learned in golfed, like guys to stay away from and guys that are comfortable. Obviously, Billy Horshaw, when he gets to the south, you feel good about it. You know, there are certain guys on the West Maverick McNeely, and you can just, and this is what sucks about live. You start taking some of my guys that are like gambling on

in certain areas. It pisses me up. Yeah. So if you listen to the podcast, are you more of a team DB guy or team Pat guy? You can be honest. Yeah, I mean, it sometimes I would say that Pat goes down some rabbit holes that I disagree with some of his picks. But then, once in a while, you know, he'll say something and you'll crush him and then that guy will perform well. And that's the thing with golf, you know, it's just, if I, if you told me like, to see in golf, if you're like, Patrick Mahomes kind of overrated, everyone would be like, this guy's an idiot. But you can say things in golf, be like, you know, phen out. Like, I don't know I'm doing it. And you're like, what are you talking about? Look at this guy.

He's like top 10 and all these tournaments. And you can just hate a guy who's really good. And you can get a lot of people like, yeah, I wouldn't bet on him either. Yeah. That's what I love, like, I love. That's what's cool about golf. There's just, you can have opinion. on really good players and you can get people to agree and disagree with you. If you said like Nick and Joey Bosa suck, you'd be like, what are you talking about? There's just so much variance in it, right? That's ultimately what we're talking about. There's even for the best players in the world, except for the Tiger era, the real peak era,

you know, favorites lose golf tournaments way more than they win golf tournaments, except for when Tiger was crushing everybody for so long, right? So I love that, you know, every week for me, just the way I like to bet and the way what I like to sweat. I know every week, like basically, if you're shorter than 20 to 1, I'm not touching you because it's golf.

It's hashtag four-letter word golf. And the chances are, you know, one of these guys beyond you longer than 20 to 1, you know, if I got a handful of those or I can only bet one or two of you guys at 10 to 1 or 15 to 1,

I'd rather have the alternative. Well, like John Romp, to me, his odds got so out of whack for a while. Like he's like 7, 8 to 1. It's like, guys, he's won like one time in a year. Yeah. And he just wasn't winning where I would say the one guy that like if I was going to go big on a favorite going to the open just because this guy's had an incredible season. He ran out of gas of the travelers. But I would say Rory, you'd feel like you got a pretty good chance on a guy that just had a hot season. He's been close if he were to win of all the guys that are going to have out. Because I bet his odds for the open. What do you think they're going to end up around 9 to 1, 10 to 1? They're going to be high. They're going to be. Yeah, they're going to be pretty short. You want to look at some odds real quick for the. open. Yeah, that's another thing I was thinking. I wanted to, one guy that I placed,

I've hit a couple top 10 bets this year, so I've had some ammo in the accounts, and I've placed a couple futures, and I did it on Zalotoros after the Masters, maybe it was the PJ Championship to win the U.S. Open. And I also did it, I think after the PJ Championship on JT to win the open. I placed a pretty, like two and a half units on them. I think it like 16.5, 17 to 1. just because a guy that has all the shots, now has bones to kind of keep him under control. And he can be a little hit or miss right when he's off at majors. It can be.

But I think of all the top guys besides probably Rory, I like JT a lot, just a guy to feel like I feel pretty good about taking as a favorite. Because like you said, I mean, a guy 38 to 1 could easily win the open, especially that thing could get weird, right? Yeah, I mean,

and the majors are a little different. Like I talked about that. I mean, it's hard to completely fade the top. You know the top 10% of guys in a major championship is typically those guys are the ones bringing it home But it sounds like you had a good number on JT because I'm seeing 14 to 1 right now on your family Well it's gone up because he's been yeah The guy the thing I was gonna tell you so we just played I just literally two Wednesdays ago

We were in Scotland on this golf trip we played how much it cost to play the old course? It was like I think in US dollars it came out of like 300 That's incredible deal you have to tip the caddy You said the caddy $80 to $100. But I was going to say it really changed my viewpoint somewhat. Or maybe it really solidified some of what I thought to be true about the Open. And my caddy was a very experienced caddy. He'd been there forever.

We're going to try to get him on the Tour Junkies show to help us out with the Open Championship. But I think the open at the old course begs for a guy with experience there. and or, because there's a name here that I still really like this at shorter odds, or a caddy with tremendous experience at the old course, or with some experience at the old course, because these sight lines at this place are so tough. Like, knowing where to hit the ball, even with all the infrastructure built up, with the scoreboard, you know, my guy's telling me,

all right, see the TV tower hit it there, see the leaderboard hit it there. Like, that made it a little easier. Is it because everything's so flat and you can't really tell? You're glad, and you can't tell where is, you know, where am I landing this? And some of the T-shots, you can't see all the bunkers that are out there. And let me just tell you, like, I complained about being in bunkers here in the U.S. when I played golf. I will never complain again in my entire life.

Every bunker I went in in in Scotland, not one ball rolls to the bottom of the bunker and, you know, to the flat spot. They're either, if you just roll in, they're on the downslope or if you hit it too far, you know, they stop on the upslip. What was the deepest bunker you were in? I didn't get in many. Now, Pat went in just about every bunker you could be in. Pat went in the one, we played Carnusie too.

And Pat went in the one on Carnusie. Is it like number 16? What do they call it? Hell's Bunker or something like that. He was in that one and did not get it out and led to like three shots. They're all like that. So I think a guy with some experience at the old course, a guy that's got a caddy with some experience at the old course,

a hell of a short game. It's a hell of a short game needed. And it's creativity, it's imagination. That's all required. and a guy with a temperament that can handle when you just get a shitty bounce. You hit a great shot and you just get a shitty balance because that happened all the time. I learned quickly when you're in Scotland, you keep your mouth off that golf shot until that ball has stopped. You don't say good shot to your buddy.

You don't say, man, that's perfect. You don't take your eye off of it. There's no hit it and then a quick tee pick up because you know it's good. You watch that thing until it stops because. How hard is the ground? So firm. And my caddy told me, my caddy was like, dude, when you guys leave, when they shut it down, all they're doing is brown in this place out.

The whole plan is to bake this thing and brown it out. I can't imagine it being it. Any golf course that I played in Scotland that week was firmer than any golf course I've ever played in my life here in the U.S. And they're going to make it firmer. So you're going to have weird balances. You're going to have bad balances. Do you even take a divot when you like hit like a five iron? You take a, not a five iron.

Yeah. Like an eight iron? I didn't see a pitch mark in the whole trip, not one pitchmark, the whole trip. Not one pitchmark the whole trip. It didn't matter what you hit into it. It's just firm. So I think guys like Scotty Sheffler and guys like Cam Smith, guys with good short game, creativity,

even keeled, even tempered, aren't going to lose it on a bad break. I think Ted Scott's been a weapon for Scotty Sheffler. Ted Scott on the bag has been a weapon. So I think he's another one to look out for if you're talking some of those shorter odds up there. Shane Lowry? Lowry, yeah.

I mean, he's been playing really good. I think he disappointed a lot of people with the U.S. Open, right? but he fits the profile for sure. And, you know, we're not even talking about the wind. I mean, the wind is definitely a factor. So the guys that hit it out of the center of the club face every time and can control their distance is key. But it's also.

So what about the shorter hitters, like the Harman's and the Kisner's? Kisner kind of got it going a little bit, I think, last week, you know. Those guys can compete because the ball's going to roll so far. Like, it's going to roll so much. I mean, I was hitting like 380-yard drives on some of these holes we played. If you hit it right on the little, you know, just goes. down slope right on the perfect little spot on the fairway, it just never stopped. So these big hitters are going to be able to hit four irons, 300 yards,

the low runners. Yep. And we'll see what kind of conditions we get. I mean, hopefully it's windy, but I know that it will be firm. That was their whole goal. They shut down a month ahead of time. They're shut down now. Their goal is to make that place brown and fast firm.

So if the wind gets going, it could be diabolical. Yeah, I mean, it's just. And if it doesn't, they could dominate. It is going to be a lot of, it's going to be highly variable if the wind gets, it's just going to, you know, we know this about the open, right? The wave advantages, the wave, you know, there's. Well, the one Morikawa one, it wasn't that windy. And that one wasn't, like, hearing the way you talk about it, like, do you like a morcaro at a course like this? It doesn't feel quite like his style.

The short game scares me a little bit, but the ball striking obviously carries wherever he goes. Like the ball striking is great wherever. But the short game is still a little, you know, like the kids say, suss. I don't know if they still say that, but, you know, it's a little suss. So, like, him and like a Victor Hovlin to me scares me a little bit, even with the great ball striking just because you have to be so good around those greens and out of those bunkers and all the undulation that we've already talked about. I'm telling you, it's so much.

I know Jordan has missed a million short putts, but it sounds like, I mean, his ball striking and his short game, you know, in terms of his wedges. Yeah, if his putter, dude, I don't know what's going on with that putter, but we'll see if he plays. I don't know if he's playing the Scottish this week or not. I'd be interested to see if he's playing the Scottish, and if he gets the putter working a little bit better. Yeah, it feels like they're going to be, especially for DFS,

and then a lot of people on Cam Smith, Scottie Sheffler, those are those going to be popular players? Yeah, we'll see. I think Cam Smith might, you know, he disappointed at the U.S. Open. I don't know, people may be. He's a little off. Maybe wearing thin on Cam Smith, yeah. Eldrick.

Is it an easy walk? Yeah, I think he could. Yes, yes, it's not a hard walk. And he's going to know that place like the back of his hand is the favorite course. 100%. And that's something else, like, he's not going to have to rip. I mean, at Augusta, like, you have to rip. driver sometimes, you know.

Yeah, you don't have a choice, especially now. Yeah, you have to contend. If you want to continue, you have to do that. He's not going to have to do that. I don't think at the open. He can hit those little stingers. He can hit a smooth driver, three wood here and there. And it's all about the knowledge, the force knowledge, the creativity, the shot making

and the, and the short game. I think, I think, you noticed at Southern Hills, and I know he was struggling, but like. What are his odds right now? His first Thursday, Tiger was hitting all these irons. Like, Tiger, this isn't 08. And I'm not trying to call him out. Like, he's the greatest golf strategies ever.

And then by Friday, when he just grind it out to make the cut, he was pulling Driver. And he even kind of admitted like, you know, strategy. Well, Tiger, you don't spray the ball with the technology like you would have been 06. Yeah. The heads, it's way different. You can, even you can just play this fade 310 down the pipe. Yeah. You have to hit driver.

So moving forward, I wonder if Tiger, you can't really play the little plotted around. Like, that's not how these guys are playing anymore. This bombs away. Yeah. And I think that's probably one reason why he avoided, you know, the PG. The U.S. Open. Like, he's probably, you know, he's had,

he's had the Open Championship circled, obviously because it's 150th, and it's back at St. Andrews. That means a lot to him for sure. But I also think it's because it's the only other major, probably the major, that he had the best chance to really contend. He's 41 to 1 on Fandall right now.

What about, and I know he's had kind of a weird season and he's been live, but like Kepka? I mean, you like any of the live guys at this place? Um. I don't even know if DJ even pays attention anymore.

I think I actually think DJ's DJ would be the one I'd be most well read I mean P. Reed is short game to me yep he read is interesting not a bryson place probably not a brice in place um now read is probably the guy I mean I think it you know uh what about all the euros will they be comfortable there yeah yeah Westwoods Poulters I think it's a place these older guys like westwood and and those guys could contend um I don't I don't think I'd bet them but I think they they could be in the conversation come the weekend. Yeah, I can't wait. It's actually been a pretty incredible major year.

Really has. All the majors have been fantastic. I guess the Masters, you know, it got interesting, you know, on Sunday, but Tiger added such an element. It was so cool. But the last two majors have just been knock down, drag out, high level, intense courses. And that's, I think sometimes these guys are so good now. Like it's enjoyable to watch, I'd say, even the, you know, minus five range.

Because you just, it's hard for them to birdie. You know, I've seen these guys driver five iron on 600 yard, you know, par five. I like to see these guys struggle. It's enjoyable. I do too. I mean, I think, yeah, I wish we had more of the, you know, these difficult forces, difficult setups on the PJ tour. I don't think we need a lot of them, but I wish we had a few more sprinkled in.

you know, the AT&T, Byron Nelson, 26 unders kind of get a little old after a little while. Was it, what was the one, Scottie? Was it the Arnold Palmer? Scottie won the Arnold Palmer? That was playing hard.

Him versus when Billy Horshaw? API can play tough. Yeah. That place looks like a beast. Terrible golf course. I played it last fall. Very forgettable golf course. If you didn't have all the Arnie stuff,

very forgettable. I had a tour player telling me that like, it was in like Tigers kind of era. He's like, you know, Tiger hated that course. I'm like, well, he won it all the time. They're like, well, yeah, he was obligated to play it because Arnold, so he's like, I might as well win it. He despised that place.

I think that's something very unique to Tiger, because I don't know that there's many guys on the PJ tour that can hate a golf course like that and then just decide to win it. One thing someone brought up to me, which is not going to work in the tour's favor, I'll get you out of here on this, is that Arnold Palmer and you see, you see a memorial. I mean, Jack, let's face it, I mean, every year he looks. looks dramatically older. The Byron Nelson for a while, all these guys used to go to those three tournaments out of paying respect. Right?

To those guys, it'd be like if John Elway, Joe Montana and Dan Marino had, but Arnold Palmer's not there anymore. And look at the field. Byron Nelson, he's long gone. Look at the field.

Once Jack goes, like, are all these guys going to play them more? I think they do for a year or two after they pass, but then it dilutes immediately. So a huge, those three tournaments were huge.

I mean, think Tiger, I mean, obviously was huge on those three plays. places. But he kind of represents where star players would go. And if that starts happening, this is again where Greg Norman, he's like the shark circling the boat right now. I mean, the younger they get, the less and less they care, the less memories they have about Byron Nelson or Arnie or Jack. I mean, that's just, that's just the thing about Pable Beach.

I mean, no one shows up beside Jordan because that's a sponsor. They all go international. Yeah, it's a terrible event now. I mean, Tiger is the key here. We didn't really talk a lot about him as it pertains to live. But obviously the silver bullet in a lot of this could be if Tiger would step out and advocate for the PJ Thor and come out and just

basically rip, rip live a new one. That could be the silver bullet that stops all of this thing. But I think anything short of that and we're all kind of probably looking at a fragmented golf world for at least the immediate future, which doesn't sound like a lot of fun. His presser

is going to be must watch at the open because he's He hasn't talked about it since whatever, the PGA, and not as much it happened, right? Yeah. Now they've had several events. All these guys have defected. They're all going to be there. Tiger was, I thought, I think it was at the PGA, kind of ripped Phil. And, I mean, it would be, you know, was Tiger ever to lose now?

He doesn't care. He's kind of, like, kind of loosened up. Honestly, Tiger could just let it rip. That's what I'm saying. And I would imagine Jay wants him to let it rip there. He's going to get the questions. 100%. Jay's sending him, you know, damn, you know, edible arrangements every week asking

him to go ahead and rip Norman a new one. Hey man, John Minnokoff, this is a lot of fun. Love talking to you. Everybody needs to check out the Three and Out podcast and all that John's doing over there on Colin Cowherers Network. I'm a big Colin Cowherd fan. I used to listen to him back in the day a long time ago. Yeah, Colin's the man.

We got to get him more on the golf course. I think he's in Turks and Caicos right now, living the life. Must be nice. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Love to have you back on. Let's do some more. Thanks a lot, man. Keep it, keep rocking and rolling and love what you guys do, man.

Appreciate you. Thanks, John. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

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