The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - Doug's NBA Finals breakdown, Lakers' dysfunction, Free agency; Rockets' reset with NBA writer Henry Abbott

Episode Date: May 30, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb breaks down the NBA Finals ahead of Game 1, and talks Finals, Lakers dysfunction, free agency, Kawhi/MJ comparisons, and a possible Rockets roster rebuild with Henry Abbott from True Hoops. Download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb, and welcome in to All Ball, the All Basketball podcast that you need to download, subscribe, and rate to. Hope you've really enjoyed previous All Balls. We're getting ready for the NBA Finals. They tip off, not kickoff, they tip off tomorrow at the time of this recording. So today at the time this drops. So tonight, you have the NBA Finals. and I'm fascinated, just fascinated,

by how this matchup's going to shake out. You know, you have, the Raptors now have finals experience with the former MVP in Kauai Leonard and a former big shot maker in Danny Green, although he hasn't made a shot yet in the playoffs. They have Kyle Lowry, who's a former All-Star, but up until late in that last series did not appear to be of All-Star form, and now he'll have to play against Steph Curry and Clay Thompson,

although there are guys to hide him on when KD is out of the game. And that's a big change for them. But the finals should be really interesting. I'll get to my breakdown in a second. I want to tell you, Henry Abbott from True Hoop. We'll join me in today's pod. We'll talk about all things. Lakers, Celtics, potential breakup of the Rockets, is that smart?

And I'll get his thoughts on the NBA Finals. Be sure to catch live editions of the Dutch. Godleap show weekdays in noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I-Hard Radio app. All right, so here's just a kind of quick take on the matchups. O.G.

Anna Boy coming back, you know, he's coming back from an appendicitis. Now, obviously he could give them a massive, massive boost, even coming off the bench. I will tell you that when you haven't played in a while, going from zero, you're not playing, you know, being in a hospital

to the 100 miles an hour of playing in an NBA finals is really, really difficult. The question for the Warriors is how much can they sustain time without clay or staff on the floor? There's a reason that they came from 17, 18, and 17 down against Portland Trailblazers because their depth, which is already in question. Remember, you're two guys deeper into the bench than you initially wanted to be in terms of the construct of this team. You don't have to Marcus Cousins. That means you're starting Kavanaugh, you're starting Andrego Dahl.

You don't have Kevin Durant. you're starting both of them, which greatly depletes your bench. Now the first guy off your bench is, you know, Sean Livingston, who can only play 20 minutes and can't physically match up with Kauai Leonard? Now you have to play Quinn Cook off the bench, which, you know, Fred Van Vleek can struggle athletically. Obviously, it was unbelievable at shot making games 4 through 6, making 87% of his three-pointers. But the point is that Toronto's bench becomes an unbelievable strength.

and their starters aren't terrible. In addition to which, if you match up big for big and they put Marcus Saul out there without DeMarcus cousins, Marcus All is going to be really, really effective. So if both teams were at full strength, I don't think it's crazy competitive. I think the Warriors win. But the Warriors are not at full strength. They're not close. It's interesting.

You'll hear lots of people mentioned Kevin Durant. Nobody mentions DeMarcus cousins, although they may both come back and play. Now, if DeMarcus Cousins does come back and play, the other part about Cousins that has always given me issues in terms of how good will they actually be is that Cousins is a guy that hurts them defensive. They can't, they can't switch five. And they can't just hide Cousins because they also have to hide Steph Curry, who plays hard defensively, but is fairly ineffective on the basketball against bigger, stronger, more athletic players. So I think the Warriors, they'll have a shooter's chance to steal one of these games in Toronto. But I think this is going to be one of those. You understand the value to Kevin Durant, just like the Raptors understand the value to Kauai Leonard.

All those other guys, the ball movement is great. But at some point you need a guy to just go get you a bucket. You do. You just need a guy to go get you a bucket. And you look at every championship team, and they've always had a guy who's a bucket. get her. And I know you're sitting there going like, well, isn't Steph Curry? He is, but a lot of times

he needs a mismatch. Now, what's going to be interesting is, well, I want a boy, be back, and if he's healthy enough, now a sudden they can go a lot smaller, a lot more athletic, but that doesn't appear to be until game two or maybe far beyond. I think the Warriors win this series, but I think

there's going to be some really, really hard-fought games. Maybe they can steal one in Toronto early, or maybe they wait for KD to ride in on the White Horde, maybe in a game three. But I think they're going to need Kevin Durant to win this thing. And I think by the end of it, much like when we saw Kevin Durant against Clippers or against the Rockets,

people started to understand just how talented he is to match up with Kawhi Leonard, who's playing at the peak of his NBA career. Well, let's welcome him in. He's the one and only Henry Abbott from True Hoop. He joins us here on the All Ball podcast. Henry, how are you? Great.

How are you? Good, man. I want to get to that we could have KD. and we do have Kauai in the finals. I want to get some of your thoughts on the Lakers and on the Baxter Holmes piece. And even the possible breakup of the Rockets, which isn't as surprising to me as it may be to some.

But first for you, like, look, you've become a major kind of player in the coverage of the NBA. I'm fascinated. Like, how did you grow up around basketball? How did basketball become such an incredible passion of yours? Oh, that's simple. man, I just grew up in Portland, Oregon, where we don't have football or baseball.

That's the deal. And when I was in seventh grade, we had a lot of homework. It's supposed to be doing my homework, but that's the same year that I got my first Sony Walkman. And so I could look like that. The waterproof Sony Walkman, because so many of those were submerged, right? The yellow one. Yeah, the yellow ones, right? I recently brought up the yellow one, and everyone, no one in the room knew what I was talking about.

I'm so glad you said that because it's, of course, the yellow one. That was the best one. I was so excited to have that. But, yeah, I could look like I was doing my homework. I sat in my room with the book open, and I listened to Bill Charleston, like, all the Blazers games. And that's how I became an NBA fan. And then eventually, my film is English,

so they don't know anything about basketball, and it was kind of cute. But eventually my dad was really nice and realized that I liked this, and he got some tickets to a Blazor game, and we were late because he was late for leaving work and he drove really fast and he drove me straight to the baseball stadium. I'm like, Dad, no, they play basketball inside. We've got to go to the other stadiums. No way.

That's amazing. Those are your parents. That's so funny because so this is in a kind of related way, right? So I coach my son. I have like an AAU program. and my wife who, she grew up in a small town, but played kind of every sport. She tells me about some of the parents

on how they literally have no idea what they're looking for. They don't understand anything about the game. She's like, you've got to hear the comments of some of these people. And then coaching in baseball, we had a kid who had never played before. And the mom, like, last game in the season comes up to my wife. And she's like, hey, they have other gloves if you're left-handed? She's like, yeah, well, my son's left-handed.

Yeah. And she goes, because actually, actually, my son is left-handed and everything else, but he's been playing right-handed here in his first year in baseball. So he shows up to the playoffs with like a left-handed mitt trying to throw and swing, you know, and I was like, well, wait until next year on it. But anyway, those, though that's amazing that those are your parents. Okay, so then you went to- that kid.

I'm that kid. I'm not kid. I've had the wrong glove. I'm exactly that kid. So you went to college where? And why are you, baby? So you go from Portland, Oregon. which I'm sure you've been back is, you know, bustling.

And it's a really cool, but very packed northwest city, right? It's sprawling. It's on the water. But it is a big city and a port city, but it's a different, what was the vibe like going from Portland to New York? Oh, shocking. And I wasn't one of these people. I mean, I had traveled a lot of places. my family

I mentioned a family from Europe, whatever, but I hadn't spent time in New York City and it was, this was 1991 when it was pretty harsh.

You know, now it's all baby strollers and stuff, right, it's different story, but in 91, it was, it was alarming,

eye-opening, and ultimately, I learned to love it so very much that I don't ever want to live far from it. I feel like New York is kind of more honest

than any other place, more multicultural, more something. It's kind of addictive to me. But yeah, then I literally, after my first year, I applied to transfer because it was just too intense. I couldn't take it. Your first job out of college is where? CBS News.

Doing what? I was a network radio desk assistant, which was a really cool job, very intense. We're on the hour, top of the news every hour, and we have to beat the whole world. And I literally would make phone calls. I mean, the whole time was just like intense, intense, intense, intense. But literally, I would make phone calls routine. like, you know, ma'am, did the plane hit your house? It's like, no, do you happen to know the number of the people who live over there?

Okay, I'm just trying to, you know, trying to get the people on the phone who can tell the story. Senator DeMotto, can you hold, please? Like, it was a lot of that kind of stuff. So how did you make your way to sports? I worked in, like, real news for several years, and they started financing for magazines. And then I went to a high school reunion thing from my Oregon high school. but it was in New York City. What high school?

What high school? I went to Oregon Episcopal school. A tiny place. I graduated in class like 50. And then I was at this thing, and one of the other people there, who I sort of knew in high school, but not well, was named Anna Gevee. And I noticed that in the mascot of Slam magazine, there was the managing editor's name was Anna Geby.

And I was, oh, the high school in the Angagher. wonder if it's her. And so when she walked in, I was like, are you that, man, you're at her playing a magazine? And she was just delighted in the maze that anyone would have noticed that. And I don't know,

six months later, she was asking me if I would do, like, this one assignment and there was another one, and the next thing you know, I was like doing pretty much all basketball. I didn't even, honestly, Doug,

it didn't occur to me that you were allowed to have a career that fun. Like, I thought that you just had to do, like, you know, murder stories and stuff, because that's just what work was like, and you would follow the NBA in your,

in your spare time, right? but when I left it out, you can actually, of course I want to do this, right? If you're actually allowed to write about the NBA all day, yeah, of course. Why would we not do that? Yeah, a lot of times when I go speak to little kids, and sometimes high school kids as well, I'll have them, I'll say like, how many guys love basketball,

have them raise their hands? How many guys talk basketball? I raise their hands. How many guys get paid to love and talk about basketball? And none of them raise their hand, I'm like, see? See, see, got it. It's always a moment where I'm like, That's kind of a cool gig I got going here.

Okay, so I think it was 2005. That was back when the blogs, 2005. Now, 2019, everybody runs for president. Back in 2005, everybody started a blog, right? What was that early? They missed their money for president, but I forget to mention that? You forgot to mention that. You forgot to mention that.

Join the club. Okay, so 2005, you start True Hoop, right? Yes, correct. You've done your homework. How did that start? and like how it was just like I'm hacking away and I'm emailing a buddy on AOL and all of a sudden I go

like you know I should start a blog it was kind of like that yeah I am I was writing from magazines about the NBA and magazines have this tremendously long hangover right so you that's a weird way to put that you're working on a story

you send to the editors and it's in print like eight weeks as fast sometimes 12 weeks sometimes a year later which means in the meantime you had to develop a lot sources and contact and insight that you just can't put anywhere because a lot of stories just won't last that long. So I was kind of sitting on this like surplus of the insight.

At the same time, an English guy who was a friend of mine in Brooklyn, Alex, he was an ardent fan of the soccer team, Norch City, and blogs were happening and he was suddenly able to follow Norch City like never before from Brooklyn. And he bugged me. You bug me at whatever, someone's backyard barbecue, whatever. You should start a blog. You should start a blog. And I was like, basically, Alex, I'm not a dork, so I shouldn't have a blog.

I was literally like, I said that to him 10 times. And then finally at a Christmas party, he started it for me. He hauled me over to the corner of the room. He started a free blogger blog for me. Just do some stuff on here. Just write some things here. And within like a few weeks, I had learned, I could tell that it was a much more vibrant and interesting way to relate than, like, normal.

more website stuff and that I put myself to like, I put a research hat on. I really learned about blogs and how they work and I went to meetings and, and I read all of the latest thinking about it and read books on it and everything. And then I was like, I think I'm going to try to make my career by a blog. I think it's just going to be a better use of my time than what I'm doing now. So I started True Hoop. You start True Hoop and then 2009 you came to, oh, no, when did you come to ESPN? Was it 09?

07. 07. 07. 07 and that was you were in the digital group right that was like down in the basement or were you with the MAG in New York

I was I never was in the office I was mostly here the the group that I worked for was on the fourth floor a building for

I think for the entire time so that was like I reported to Chris Ramsey when I first got there sure Jack Ramsey's son, by the way, who's good dude. Jack Ramsey's son. Yeah.

Yeah. And actually, I spent one whole finals. That Celtics Lakers finals, the 2010, maybe, I forget what year it was. I spent the whole finals with Dr. Jack. We sat the other every game, and we did like kind of a called the game live on the internet with me typing his words, basically. What a treat that was, amazing man. Yeah, so I was one of, I was ABSPN.com. eight NBA writer at the time, something like that, working with all Mark Stein and

Jay Donde and Chris Sheridan, et cetera, Don Hollinger, Chad Ford. Sure. And then I took over that group. They asked me to be the editor of it starting in 2014, and I was like the boss for a few years, and then left ESPN amid all those changes a couple years ago. What was it like to go out on your own? great I mean I had 22 months left of my contract so I did a lot of stuff that I would never had time to do I became like a dad of the year I think I built a lot of things with my hands

and I put in just an immense amount of research into this passion of mine which is kind of weird so the blog called true hoop the hoop part is pretty obvious but the true part got me really thinking over the last decade or so. Like, there's a lot of things that people don't believe, just even if you tell them the truth, or we do ourselves, right? Like, what is that all about? Why am I fascinated

by the truth? Why is it hard for people to see the truth? How do our brains work? How about bias? All this stuff. I just did tons of work. Really kind of background for future projects of just like, what's the deal with us and our struggle with the truth. Of course, while this is happening, Donald Trump

becomes president. And it became a bigger hotter topic, right? But I feel like right now I'm sitting on a lot of insight into, you know, well, I could talk about this. Don't get me started on this one, Doug. I could talk about this all day. But I'm looking, I'm standing here in my office looking at all of these books that are like kind of what I got to dig into in the middle of my career.

And now relaunched True Hoop as an independent, an immediate company. It's a subscription newsletter with my buddy David Thorpe, who I know you know. I love it. Yep. And we're kind of diving into some new products to add to that. podcast and digital video, that kind of stuff. So we're trying to apply these lessons, you know. Try to apply all the things that I learned here in the attic and the SPN.

Give me one thing that is true. Like, just give me like a little teaser. Give me something that's true that people don't believe that fascinates you. Well, look, for most of my career, it's been, you know, the Lakers aren't magical, right? It started with Kobe and Crunchtime, for me, right? people just wanted to stop thinking and stop doing basketball and just say, look, like, he has it, right?

So it's going to be a good shot. But, you know, once we had the ability to look at his field goal percentage of crunch time, he was shooting 25%. So then I write that he's shooting 25%. And the primary reaction is, yeah, but he's amazing. Right? And it's like, I don't know what to say that. You know, like 25% suck.

You can't win games with that strategy, right? Like, he might be really good skill-wise. But that's not good strategy for sure, right? The choices that lead to that are, you know, you could do better running a regular play and letting whoever gets open take the shot, right? Like, you can beat 25% a lot of ways. So that's one. That's a big one for me.

It's a great one because we do this thing on TV, which is, I mean, it's super, super silly. We do this clutchness thing, right? Everybody has a, he's clutch, he's a choker. and there's so much that goes into it. And obviously, you know, numbers can support things. I would also, I would only push back from this perspective that, like, I saw Nick Wright broke out a stat about, you know, like last 10 seconds. I don't even know what the games are. Like LeBron's numbers, you know, shooting as opposed to Kobe or Kauai or KD or whatever.

And or maybe it's Jordan and Kobe. But like, the defense is so different. The whole sport has been turned completely on its head, where there's no one in the lane. If there is, you know, it's a pogo stick, which there's not, when Jordan played, there's a power forward and a center in the lane and the small forwards were Scotty Pippen, right? I heard Ron Artesse talking about, you know, earlier today about how, you know, he likes big guys and they just have no place. You know, power forwards have no place in the sport as a true power forward. they have to be able to be a small ball five, if anything, and cover one through four.

But like there is something to the fact that, yes, Kobe's numbers are bad, and I agree with you on the premise because the numbers supported that you're better off running offense and letting the defense determine who's open as opposed to, let's just give one guy the ball and let him bail us out. That sounds like a very smart argument from your perspective. But the sport is so different now. The quality of shot is so different now than it was going back five years ago, ten years. years ago, 15 years ago, it's really hard to compare, even with the statistical data, trying to show parallels. There's just, there can't be a control group within the two. And it's all what Kevin Pelton called small, simplifies theater anyway, right?

Like, once you confine it to game on the line or crunch time, like, the numbers just aren't big enough to be valid, right? So, and even, like, you know, baseball, where the numbers are easier to manage, is Bill James spent decades, basically trying to start. find if clutchness even was a real thing, right? Like, are there people who really demonstrate, you know, more than randomness in crunch time, right? And couldn't really find an answer.

So, like, I don't assume that there even is this, right? Well, we're just arguing about is what happened, not do they have some human quality imbued into them, right? But what I'm pretty sure about is, okay, a lot of my career, I'm now realizing I didn't know what was going on until now I've figured out better how to phrase it, but like, I want to separate out talent and strategies, right? So, like, talent is what we're used to talking about, and thankfully, talent solves the problem of bad strategy very often, right? So you can I tell Kobe, you can, and you'll win plenty of games that way. Like, because his talent just overwhelms

your crappy strategy, right? I guess the article that I was trying to write was, but that's a bad strategy and we can do better with that, right? Like, I know everybody wants to say, like, oh, Derek Fisher sucks, whatever. Like, yeah, but you know what? He doesn't suck that bad, right? Like, give the vault a wide open Derek Fisher, who you can see on video is all alone. Yes. And, like, you will win more games.

Well, John, John, I mean, John Paxon, Steve Kerr, these are, John, John, Steve Kerr never averaged double digits in his career was a bench player. But, you know, whether it's with the Spurs filling in for Tony Parker late against the nets, or whether it's during time with the Bulls, you know, open at the right moment in time in range and rhythm, like that guy's a bucket, right? It's, you know, would you give him the ball and clear out? No. But again, in the context of end of game, I understand. I agree. That's fascinating. Okay, so let's get to the Lakers because- Yeah, let's do it.

Baxter Holmes is a guy that you hired, you brought to ESPN. And it was long rumored that this piece, was out there. And it was when Magic resigned, I had friends with the Lakers that were like, you know, I heard there's a slam piece coming out. And it's not good towards magic. And then it came out. And I'll just give you my kind of quick perspective.

I talked about a little bit earlier in the pod is that there wasn't that many wow moments to me. Maybe it's because I know too much. Maybe it's because I talk to other people in professional sports. are like, yeah, well, you find former employees, and of course they're going to be bitter. With the exception of Rob Polinka and his two bizarre lies, one which there is a possibility of the Heath Ledger thing is a little more truthful than the Bob Myers thing, which he seemed to make up. But it's pretty much what you thought, right? Like, magic didn't show up to work.

And then, you know, wanted to, you know, crack some skulls because he thought the people that were at work. weren't good enough, right? I weren't listening to him. Rob Polinka didn't really know what he was doing and kind of bullshaded his way through it like an agent would. On the other hand, at least he was totally in on the job. So, I don't know. You know, Jeannie's trying to figure out how to not lose control of her dad's franchise.

You know, because if you let him, LeBron and his guys, they'll take over. They'll almost infest the place and they almost pulled off a coup d'etat with coach and player and essentially being the active GM. Like, when you read the piece, what did you think? So on the one hand, I'm with you, like, not that surprising. There have been a lot of signals from Lakerland that it's not a well-run team for a long time.

And I did, like, you know, I've heard from, you know, people who live and breathe and work in the NBA, and most of them are like, oh, yeah, like, this is why, like, I wouldn't have my player go there, right? Because of the way stuff we've known for you. and good on Back Surfer, getting it in print, right? So it's not as surprising. You know, it is surprising to Laker fans, I think, right?

So to me, the way the Lakers have been managed is like it's very Hollywood, right? So I think there was a time, like, when you would sign up, whatever. You have Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito, and they're going to start in your movie. It's going to be called Twins, and it'll succeed because it has Arnold Schwarzenger and Danny DeVito, right? well, that was the NBA that Dr. Buss ran where you get Magic Johnson and Kareem and it'll be good because you imagine Johnson and Kareem.

And since then, remember the whole talent strategy thing I was just saying, like now there are teams like the Warriors who don't just have really good talent, but they also have particularly good strategies. Right? Like, the way that they move on the court makes

Draymond Green from a guy who barely made the NBA into, you know, setting the all-time record for the greatest real plus-minus ever, right? They're figuring out better strategies to get more out of people. And so now it's no longer enough to just have stars and make it plug and play. Like all the pieces have to work together. You have to make a thousand great decisions a week and just keep going and be better than everybody at a million different things. And that's where all these books I have in my attic about, you know, the truth and how things work best.

there's a very alarming part of that liquor story, which is nobody listens to anybody. They have all these people on staff, several who work there, and who they draft, or who they sign up for agency, or what a team strategy is, is made off the cuff by one or two people. Like, you just can't be smart enough. You can't outsmart the Warriors without doing, like, that thing where everyone sits all their best ideas, and you create an environment, people feel safe, being vulnerable, and you, you know, what about this?

What about this little cat move we could do? What about maybe this traffic or how about this trade or here's the unconditional thing? You want to get all the best ideas together. But instead they're not doing that. They're operating based on the idea like LeBron's going to be Schwarzenegger. We just got to go find DeVito. And then boom, that's the magic. It's all going to happen in magic stars filled ways.

But the reality is it's hard work. You've got to climb efforts, right? You've got to do all every day. You've got to be a little better, work a little harder, be a little smarter. And then you might beat the Warriors. But this thing where you're just kind of like get a big name GM, a big name president. a big name Superstar? Like, it's not enough.

It's not smart enough. Well, it's a great point you make. Let me give you another kind of hypotheses and you tell me if you like it. Maddie Johnson, he hit the genetic lottery, right? He's six foot nine. When you're six foot nine, you're only competing against, you know, 0.1% of the population.

Then he was a 6'9 point card. How many 6'9 point cards were there when he was playing? You're talking about none, right? None. So did he? Did he hone some God-given skills of vision and athleticism? Sure. Remember, he actually wasn't a great, great athlete. Like, he was just very, very bright as a basketball player,

had a magnetic kind of personality, had great vision, leadership, and he wasn't afraid of the big moment, but he also was 6'9 at a time in which there was nobody 6'59 that could handle the ball like him. So you're talking about actually competing against let's get at best 1% of the population and you're born into the united states you win the geographic lottery as well right like if you're born in some third world country back then the chances you get out and get to training to play basketball slim and none right so now you become the president think of the things the times in which he's had to compete against 100% of the population right the eight billion people talk show host coach uh and now a president like literally anybody can be a president, anybody of basketball operations. And maybe not anybody.

You have to have a basketball activity. You have to have a passion. You have all the other stuff. But you're competing against a much larger pool of people. And so hard work is more rewarded. Whereas, like, look, I'll tell you as a former basketball player, all of us think, man, I busted my ass. Like, I remember summers.

You get up in the morning and you go get shots up. Then you go lift or maybe meet with your trainer, right? Then you go and you get protein shakes and you hang out. And then you go work out again in the afternoon. play some ball. Like that was a good day. That's not what in the real world, like you get up and you work and you make calls and you watch film, you do this, you do that,

and you talk to people. It's like, I think that a part of it is he's not actually used to having that advantage of being Magic Johnson. When you're president of basketball operations, you don't have the same advantage to just show up and, you know, tip the cap and be Jimmy Dugan at a league of their own baseball games.

It's an amazing point. You know, in magic defense, I think the way he reportedly did the job used to be very common in the NBA. That's how a lot of people did. I know, like, when they started the Timberwolves, they asked Kevin McAil to run the team because he was the local basketball hero. And he was like, oh, no, no, no, I just want to go hunting and fishing a lot. And they're like, that's okay, you can do that. He's like, oh, okay. So then he ran the team in a spare time, as I was told.

Who did that? Kevin McHale, the early years of the Timberwolves. He told him he didn't have a lot of time. He wasn't that passionate about it. They were like, okay, that's fine. But if you hire people around you that can do what you don't do, that can work, right? Hire people who know what you don't know. The real flaw to the Lakers is you had an inexperienced head coach, you had an inexperienced president who was never around,

you had an inexperienced general manager, and they're the only team in the NBA that didn't have an assistant general manager. and they have a very slim scouting department in comparison to some of the other teams. Like, they didn't have the infrastructure for that type of leadership. Well, and why would, and the people who did work there, they didn't even have in the meeting, right? So, like, why would you go there? So the flip side of it, I think there's one of the point, which is, you know, you can do things in a dumb way if 20 and other teams also do things in a dumb way, right? But there was a time every, like, there was a time left to every player smoked cigarettes, right? Like, that was okay if the guy you guarded smoked cigarettes or didn't train well.

But now, like, that's much harder. Everyone runs faster, jumps higher. Same in the front office, right? So across the hall from the Lakers is Lawrence Frank, right? That's the president of the clippers. And he's... Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman, catapulted Jacob's, into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges

that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WMBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star, Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong.

Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas, and Katie Ladeki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to, win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale,

like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross.

Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different. intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Keer Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Oh, no. Five, eight. Yeah. And was the guy who, David Thorpe used to call him canteen guy.

because he ran the canteen at the five-star camp, right? Like, you know, he was lucky to find a place to sleep at five-star camp because the bunks were all taken, right? Like, he, that hard work thing you're talking about, this is the opposite of Madison Johnson, right? Like Lauren Spring had to scrap and scrapping, scrap, and scrap and scrap, and scrap, and I remember I used to cover the net team here when he was the head coach there, and they were not a good team when he started coaching the team,

and he had to figure out how to connect with Jason Kidd, and eventually they became good, and Lawrence got a career out of the deal. but, you know, he knows every back alley of NBA scrap, right? And every little thing you can do to be a little better. And they made a bunch of trades that didn't win them season ticket holders that day, but long term are going to make it so that for real now this summer, the free agent that whichever free agent the Lakers thought would be their savior, is a pretty good bet to go to the Clippers instead because that whole operation is just very professionally run.

and that's what the Lakers have to be competing with now, which is a new thing in the NBA, and they're just running an old play. Like, actually, I said this yesterday, somebody else told me, like, the Lakers are a Cadillac, which used to be considered a great car. Yeah.

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com. They have over 122 million car parts and accessories in stock, all at the right prices. And that can help you turn your ride into something really tasty. The parts you need are just to click away at eBay motors.com. Let's ride. Okay, so what do you think that, what do you think happens, forecast for me what happens end of the season? In the, in the office season for the Lakers, yeah. I mean, I've been sniffing around all of these, like, where are all the free agents going to land? And the word Lakers has never said, right? There's a lot of excitement about the clippers and the Nets and whatever.

I mean, it depends who you believe on the next front. But there aren't enough top-tier free agents to go around. I think they're going to have to try to get Anthony to try to – they might have the best possible offer for Anthony Davis, right? I can be wrong, but I don't think the lake is going to get a top tier of free agent. I think then, of course, the worst thing you can do is like with the Knicks did in LeBron's free agency, right? Which is where you marshal are of your free agent money,

you really hope to get a certain player, you don't get the players, they give all that money to somebody who's not anything like as good, right? That's when they got Amarst-Otemar in New York. I could see them doing that. But with the possible exception of Jimmy Butler, I think that the Lakers will not get a top tier free agent and I'll have to try to get Anthony Davis

and then I don't know how good they'll be without all the supporting cast. And then how does Anthony Davis actually fit with LeBron James is one of my questions? Like I get that he can make up for mistakes defensively and there'll be a lot more as LeBron can't exert himself the way he used to and beat the eraser defensively. You could guard four positions.

but I just like all of his centers have either been solely rim protectors, rim protectors, or you know, he really wants a power forward to be a stretch five. And Anthony Davis can shoot, but he's not a shooter. That's not what he does. Like I kind of feel like it's a weird pursuit of a guy that's not as good of a fit. Like there's been a lot of talk about Brad Beale. Like Brad Beale feels like a better fit than Anthony Davis does. Or both would be good.

Yeah. Did you take both? Sure. Sure, but I mean, like, how are you going to get, how are you going to get them both? I mean, no, I don't think you can't. You know, it's a real problem, right? I mean, LeBron has signed up for the first time. He doesn't have real leverage over the team, right?

He signed a contract for four years. And I think at the time he signed it had every reason to believe with his own knowledge of behind-the-scenes how he works, he could attract stars a number of weights, right? But it just looks worse now. You know, other competitors look better. They didn't get Anthony Davis. The Free Agency game has changed. The Lakers front office has a terrible reputation now.

I see a little bit of desperation, right? So, yeah, I could see that you'd worry about this with Anthony Davis. But gosh, like, if he's the only star, you have a chance of getting, you know, and you have a couple years left to your prime, don't you just have to get him? Yeah. I think you do. Okay, so you said, so you're in New York. The talk is that now the nets are a destination.

The Knicks, I mean, the only thing, there's two things holding you back from the Knicks. One, I still think a lot of these guys would be seen as uncool. And that's the thing, seen as uncool for taking James Dolan's money. Regardless of the fact that anybody who pays attention knows he has nothing to do with basketball, with the exception of every once in a while showing up a Knicks game and being an asshole. Right, like he has no, he has the unique ability to like once he are going like, oh yeah, that asshole owns the team. That's right. You know, outside of that, he really doesn't have much to do with basketball, but guys don't, you know, you don't, you feel like you won't be at the cool table if you're taking his money.

And then the Nets, it's like, look, I get Brooklyn is a super cool place to live. J.J. Reddick didn't even move. He still lives there. Unbelievable place to live. Unbelievable arena. new ownership, huge money, but it's still the Nets, right? Like, it's just, it's not the, it's not even on the island of Manhattan. So who do they get?

Well, I think there's the possible appeal for the Clippers and the Nets, I think is similar, right? The Clippers are to L.A. as the Nets are in New York, right? There are teams on the upswing that are fighting reputations. The appeal is, I think, players are smart and have this anxiety that wetting themselves to a dumb team could be doom, right? We've seen it before. So there's a little sense that, you know, the Nets just achieved big improvement, right? They took a player the Lakers couldn't make sense of and made him a productive All-Star.

However that works is a little weird, whatever the team dynamic is, a little hard to fathom exactly. but you want to be what David Thorpe calls rolling, you want to be rolling your boat in the faster river, right? Like, you know you can roll your boat, man, if the Israel Russell can improve like that and you're a team that doesn't know how to do that, that sucks, right? So I just think that they have a little bit of team culture. I mean, I grew up in Portland as you know,

and I probably sound like a Blazers homer, but, you know, when Rodney Hood and his cancer and Seth Curry all play it, you know, who are all kind of off the, the NBA scrap heap all play really important and productive minutes, I think it's a little bit of a signal, but maybe the organization knows how to do something that everybody doesn't know how to do, and you kind of want to get some of that juice, you know?

So I think that's the potential draw, right? So maybe, well, let's talk about Kevin Durant in particular. There's one more huge problem with him on the Knicks, which is he's the most sensitive guy in the world. Right, and he's going to be in New York? Right? I mean, yeah, I mean, he's on Twitter all the time, burner accounts defending himself against every accusation, right? Like, lots of very thick-skinned people don't like the New York media, right? And it's particularly the Nix media, right?

That's where the expectations are crazy high. I feel like they ate him alive, right? I feel like this would end really ugly. There's no way, in my mind, they're going to go from the worst team in the NBA to fulfilling the expectations of NICS fans with one. for agent signing, right? So there will be disappointment, and it will be a long process, and, you know, Kevin Rice is not getting younger, and I think there's going to be this weird gap that's just going to fry him. And in the end, I think that's why, if you were honestly advising Kevin Cranne, I think you

tell him to go elsewhere. Plus, how many other people have tried to climb Everest in New York? I mean, we could kind of go through the, it reminds me of Goonies, one of my favorite movies is Goonies. Right, when they're like, like, they have all these, there was, I forget the name of the explorer who died, right? Like, guys, he could, you know,

this is, this was his quest to get past one-eyed Willie, and we've gone further than it. It's like, yeah, but like, look at all the people, the explorers that died trying to find one-eyed Willie. How many people have tried to, like, Larry, for coaches, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, obviously his management,

you know, Mike, Dan Tony, dude, I could, like I could go through him, Rick Petino, Pat Riley, and then players from Ewing, they did get to the finals, granted Jordan didn't play, Ewing to Penny Hardaway, Amari Stodemeyer, Carmelo, Anthony, at various times their career, Jason Kidd, like, there's a ridiculous number. They've had some unbelievable names as players that haven't been able to find one-eyed Willie or to climb Everest, if you will. And like, I get it.

I think Kevin Rand's the best player in a game. but there's been other dudes that are close to that peak, and they haven't gotten there, and they're not as sensitive as you, and there was better infrastructure then than there is now, and out of dust, you're going to be an NBA champion. I find that hard to believe.

You said better than me. I feel exactly the same way. The only way is if you're, like, the gambler who takes all your money and puts it all on, like, red 32 or whatever, and you, you know, like, because of what you said, heaven forbid Kevin Rand does lead them to the

problem, then it might be his only chance. You know, he has openly said in the past and angrier moments that he thinks he's the best ever, you know, better than LeBron,

does and all that, and he wants to, if he wants to prove that, you know, he's running out of ways to do it the conventional way. You know what I mean? Like,

he's not going to have more championships. He's not going to have better overall career stats or whatever. But I guess if you, if you do climb that particular Everest where everyone else failed, maybe, maybe?

that's the argument I could make, even though I don't know. I like it. I think what you just said is the same. This is exactly what I'm saying about the Lakers just thinking that magic people, magical people, will solve it, right?

Like, you have to actually have better run front office. So you get to actually make smarter decisions habitually. And that's where the mix is. Like, no, no, no, well, just, okay, that didn't work. Right. Phil, get Phil. You know, like, that doesn't work. Oh, I'll get, you know.

Amari, Carmelo. or whatever, just someone with a big name. Someone's name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, we've seen that with TV shows before, right? Or movies where you just, you try and put a big name in with a bad.

It's a bad script. It's a bad script. Right. You know, it doesn't, does, that might look good in the press clippings, whatever, but once you watch the movie, like, ooh, ooh. Waterworld, perfect example, right? Spend a bunch of money. Put Kevin Costner.

Pete Kevin Costner. You're like, that movie sucked. And you can't fool, you can't fool people. My dad's a doctor, and there's a diagnosis component of this, right? Which is like, like, if you're really brilliant, you want to, you'll be able to figure out, like, what's actually causing the disease, right? Which is totally different from, like, give them the famous medicine, right? Like, yeah, the famous medicine is miraculous, if applied in the right place in the right way. Right.

You have to give it for sick people. You get a diagnosis, right? You have to really understand the game, which I think is why this is why a lot of these guys hate it. analytics. But these guys, I mean, GMs of a generation ago, because analytics are coming with their message of like, oh, this is hard. This is hard work.

You have to really understand how these things all fit together and it's not eye test, and it's not fun and easy, and it's not one flight to Sarajevo, when you watch a guy in the gym and say, that's my guy. You have to really understand the dynamics of the game and what matters. Like, is reach more important than height?

Like, you have to know the answer to that, right? and on and on times a million. I think that's where, you know, this job of running an NBA team, like running a lot of businesses, has become way more demanding than it used to be, just to keep up.

And the world's more competitive. What is it? Just hard job. What do you think of Kauai? I mean, obviously he's amazing. I'm a little, I'm a little, I feel like a little bit of a, you know, best player in the world,

like this week. You know, I just feel like, oh, we've had the best player in the world every different week of the playoffs we've been a different person, you know. But yeah, I, he, he's got some Michael Jordan, right?

It does feel a lot of times that whatever problem there is in the basketball court, Kauai has a solution to it, including that four bouncing shot, they'll beat the Sixers. Right? Like, it does feel like he can do anything. And, you know, that's off to him for that. And one other thing.

Shout out to load management. Right? That guy, Alex McCatchney, used to run everything for the Lakers, and they let them go during the lockout. This is exactly the kind of thing, right? This is exactly the player the Lakers would like to have, and I predict he'll stay with the Raptors, in part because of that guy who the Lakers already let go.

You think you'll stay with the Raptors? I think now, now they're in the finals, I think he'll take this short deal, right? I think it'll just be too harsh to leave right now. I think I'll do like a one plus one or something. I don't know. I just feel like, I don't know. I just feel like he's a, you can't apply to Kauai Leonard,

you can't apply anything from anyone. He's just a different cat. Like all these guys are kind of different cats. Yeah. And he's just a different, like anybody else, you get to the finals in Toronto, you get that kind of love and this kind of team. And you go like, oh, no way he leaves.

Except Kauai Leonard. Like, but it just feels, feels like he's going to do his own thing. how he wants to do his own thing and that's how he's going to do his thing um he doesn't seem part computer for sure yes the

the Jordan thing is interesting because I guess I take it too literally right like Jordan was a a wing who became a great post player whereas why I was a post player who's become a great wing um but I do understand that and he's also a guy Jordan was a guy

who who wasn't always a willing early in his career, but when people will remember, when they finally won a championship against the Lakers, he averaged 11 assists the game in his first NBA finals because the Lakers wanted to make somebody else beat him. Still average 31, but he averaged almost like a triple double. It's like 11 assists because the second they helped,

he was a willing passer. And if we watched as that series evolved with the Bucks, some of his teammates, one, started making shots. That was more assists. And then two, he kind of started to figure out what they were doing defensively and where. grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met, Levin, this plant, too, a building. dollar fraud.

But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small.

The question is, How do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that.

Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladecki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world.

Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts for wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves,

their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions

everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo SlicLife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my...

new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes

when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. who was going to be open and where they were going to be open and he became a more willing passer. So I got it there. I still think that KD is more of the best player.

I was impressed by his desire and ability to shut down James Hardin in the playoffs. I was also, I mean, I just feel like, I don't know, we're so, we have no memory at all. Like first two games of the playoffs, he was trying to be a good teammate. And people were like, hey, why aren't. you just killing them and he's like all right fuck it I'll just go score 45 and then he goes and scores 45 and like oh he's the best player on earth

and he's the only one doing anything consistently against the rockets then he gets hurt and the other guys pick it up and like they didn't need him like what we're making it's like some impossible journey for Kevin Durant because he left the thunder and went to a team that had previously won 73 games

but if I had to have one guy I've had one guy I would probably have Kauai, even though I think Kady's better, only because, well, Kauai's younger, and he hasn't been as injury-prone, right? Let me do, okay, we did this little internal exercise here at True Hoop, and I just opened the Google Doc. All right, this is just over the last few weeks.

Yonis, popular pick for MVP, likely to be named the MVP, too, right? His only rival in that debate was James Hardin. Kevin Durant, you just discussed, there was a time early in the playoffs where Nicolioch was seen as, like maybe that guy who was having the best playoff. I'm here to tell you that of everybody with a big name in the NBA, the one with the best plus minus in the playoffs, and it's not close, is Joel Embed. He was more than plus 20 through the whole playoffs.

And I guess the Raptors in that series, which, you know, they almost won, plus 20, literally a blowout every second MB is on the court, whether it's on the court or not. Don't forget LeBron James, right? We recently did a little thing about if you were to trade LeBron for Zion. Don't get me started on that. But it's the Lakers who'd have to add a sweetener because LeBron isn't good enough. So that's an argument for Zion.

Anthony Davis is in the Navy conversation when he's healthy. Paul George led the league in real plus minus this year. Then there's Kauai. And, of course, we haven't mentioned Jeff Curry. Like, I think you could make a case for all of them and more. And so to me, with all of that and this, like, like you're saying about short memory, It's like, look, it depends. You know, there's a lot of good arguments you can make.

The notion that's clearly Kauai, to me, now, is like, come on. But that's just because they won the last series. I dare anyone to make that case if the Raptors happen to lose against the bucks or the fixers. Or that ball doesn't go in against the sixers and they go to overtime, right? Like a fade away, a fade away a deep two that hits the front rim twice, the back room twice, or the side room twice, and then goes in. Like, that shot doesn't go in, and now. Now what are we saying about Kauai, Leonard?

We do become result-oriented instead of process-oriented. Oh, like crazy. And it's tiny results, you know? Somebody, I sort of tweeted something about this, and somebody replied, like, frequency bias is the best bias. That's funny. That's true. That's very, very funny.

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Okay, last thing. There are people that, so the team that supposedly had become team analytics was the rockets, right? Like they're the ones. We've fully, we got smart people. They're in the front office. and we went and got James Harden and then we slowly kind of figured it out and last year they were close

and then they lose Arizza lose a couple of the pieces but they didn't have Chris Paul now they have Chris Paul they come up short and then at the time of this recording this is on Wednesday the NBA final start on Thursday

Adrian Wojnzowski said hey basically the Rockets you can have anybody you want although the Harden you'd probably have to move you know Everest in order to get hardened so that means Chris Paul but you got to take Chris Paul's contract.

And I also think that some of this is overblown. Lots of teams have lots of good teams would say, like, yeah, you can trade for anybody, but you're going to have to take all our crummy contracts as well. Right. Like, yeah, sure, you're going to have PJ Tucker. You got to take Chris Paul's deal as well and give us some, you know, give us a Pirates ransom in return. I would make the case that I actually understand this.

If you can't beat the Golden State Warriors down two starters, they didn't have DeMarcus cousins, didn't have Kevin Durant. if you can't beat them at home in a game six, when Chris Paul is healthy and James Harden's healthy, you can't beat them then, you are never going to beat them. Change strategies. Don't keep pounding your head against the wall and be like, at some point it's not going to hurt.

I actually understand this. I don't know if it makes them better, but I do think that kind of bailing on this current group might be the smartest and most pertinent thing in order to continue trying different ways to get to the top of the mountain. I hear you. It sounds like you disagree. You're allowed to disagree.

Go. I mean, look, the not they're always bringing up the Blazers, but they were swept forward by the Pelicans a year ago and didn't really change anything and made it the Western Conference finals. Like, there was dramatic improvement from maybe luck, or, you know, maybe those guys

building a little more trust together, right? Like, Mark Leonard has been not a great NBA player, but had something special from his teammates trusting him in a certain way and, you know, had the best game in the way of public. There's this kind of stuff, so arguably, you know, you can build more

trust so like Eric Gordon feels more empowered to do more stuff, right? I can see that's what I would say if I were bringing them all back. I don't think the Rockets, and Darryorne will admit this, right? They're not particularly good at that, right? They're not particularly good at that, right? They're like, they're like,

we're going to purchase this asset and increase its value and then move it, right? that's how they got James Hardin. That's how they got good. But this whole kind of how do you blend these personalities and how do you build trust, all this stuff, that's not what they're best at. So if you're not good at that

and you're going to need to win by just having more talent, then hell yeah, I guess, shake it up. Why not? And I think, look, we were talking about the Lakers and the Knicks who have tons of money and a poor ability to get talent for that money. That's your Chris Paul match, right? with the Lakers?

Or the next. Either one, right? You don't know if just are dying to throw dollars at somebody. Yeah, and they can take on those deals. I don't know how it works with the Lakers, right? Does that, I mean, you probably have to find a third team for Lanzo ball. And then, God, how do they, what do they look? I mean, I guess you get the banana boat crew back together again.

Hell, Carmelo wants to sign, sign him off the scrap heap. Oh, don't do that. I know. Can't play. Can't play. I mean, it'd be amazing. Dwayne Wade out of retirement, right? Get them back together.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, do that. What is that movie with... What is that movie with Sylvester Stallone and some of those old cats that when they're... Oh, man. They're like... They're all like over the hill. Oh, man, I'll have to...

I'll look it up as we're speaking. Yeah, I don't know what you do there. I do think they got, huh? I was thinking more about gung-ho. You know what I'm talking about you ever gung-ho? Yeah, with Michael Keaton? Yeah, where they're like, you know, the plant's going to close down, but all the old guys have to, like, over-form for a short test, right?

I think it's like that. I don't know what you're supposed to plan movie is. The expendables? Oh, the expendable. Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what is it. Yeah, the expendables. We got, like, all these old has been.

all kind of together, right? Like the expendables had Sly Stallone. Slice Stallone, Dolf Lundgren, Steve Austin, Jason Statham, Dolf Lundgren, Jet Lee, right? Who else did it have? I think Mickey Rourke, like, dude, just a bunch of guys collecting checks.

I think Arnold was even in the movie a little bit as well. You just have a bunch of dudes that have all had plastic surgeries and roared up just to be in one last movie. Just reminds me of what that Laker team would look like. I dare you to share that idea with LeBron James. The expendables? Yeah. You guys could be like retired slice alone.

You did. You did have a Zion Williamson opinion. There are some people. And I kind of get it like, hey, isn't John Moran? doesn't he have a chance to affect your wins and losses more than, then you might not affect your bottom line as Zion Williamson. Like Zion Williamson feels like a small ball five. John Morant feels like kind of a game-changing ball screen point guard,

you know, playing downhill. What is your opinion of Zion Williamson the impact he'll have in the NBA? Oh, I think he, because of his body type, right? Like, and how hard he plays, all you're counting on is some continued skill development, a young guy to have someone who has a real chance at being, you know, as good as anyone ever, which isn't true of anyone in the draft most years, right? Maybe it's not a 50% likelihood, but it's not a 0% right. It's a 5% to 20% likelihood that he becomes just the best player on the team that

reals up championship. So just for that possibility, I would take him 100 times out of 100. But also looking, I mean, maybe Russell Westbrook is a bad, example right now for a job for him right like yeah how are you going to be better at that job the most of westbrook was and it's been a tricky road for him yeah no question because that that style of basketball you know where you have to get to the to the rim at some point your athleticism does fail you and you got to be able to you got to be able to do what lillard can do what step can do uh you know and what some of the you just have to be able to shoot the ball more like it's

become a shooter's game it's kind of annoying to me as a guy who wasn't a shooter. It's like when you go to play pickup and instead of picking up teams or doing, I hate next five, but instead of doing that, it's like, all right, we're going to shoot three point shots to see who plays. It always favors the shooter. It always favors the shooter. But that's the way the NBA has kind of trended. It always favors the shooter. And I don't think that's who Ja. That's that's who Ja Morant is. The Zion thing that the fascinating thing is going to be the weight. Can you play? What weight can you play at for 82 games, not hurt yourself. And yet, does he maintain his explosiveness?

Does he become more explosive? Is he a different guy? Some people are different guys when they lose all that weight. Yeah, great point. Yeah, I think worst case scenario, worst case scenario, he's a tremendous small ball five who's an all-star, borderline all-star. Best case scenario, yeah, I mean, if he starts where he can really make jump shots, he's got a high basketball IQ, he can post up.

he's crazy explosive already and I would think if he loses 25 pounds like we haven't even begin to see the freak show because he hasn't, he hasn't hurt that second spurt yet of like, like his body's shaped up in one year at Duke but it's totally different when you change your diet and you're playing 82 games

and you got a real strength. If he hires a body guy and a, you know, dietitian and he gets really after it, like I'm with you. He could be a freak show if he stays healthy. My fear is, What happened to that shoe is what's going to happen to his knees and hips and back. There's just so much torque there.

Oh, so much, of course. I'll tell you what excites me about him most. And I'll be honest, I don't watch a ton of college basketball. Like, I just, it's such a, the season's so busy. So I'm not an expert on any of these players. I'll just say that up front. But I'll tell you what, watching Guy Lompson gives me this certain excitement, which is when Draymond Green is at his best,

there's a pace of like physical play mixed with decision making where at both ends he's just performing at a level that like David Thorpe and I have been jokingly calling it the Quezon Art but like

the Warriors are running in this way where I literally just it doesn't feel like the same game anymore it just feels like you know it ends of an Alfonzo McKinney layup or step three or some other crazy thing

but everything's so forceful but also precise all at the same time and to me like I guess that's going to be what you have to beat to win in the future, and not a lot of players are cut out for that, but this guy might be. When I say Steph Curry, what do you think?

Miracle. Yeah, I'm delighted. I mean, it's good for basketball, right? My favorite thing about it, I'm sure you've seen this, and maybe it annoyed you, but, you know, when he made that shot the game winner against the Thunder in Oklahoma City a few years ago, I ended up interviewing a guy who supervises recess at an elementary school,

and every kid, like the bell went off and they would not go back in. Like, we have a real problem in America of people not wanting to play sports, right? Kids are playing a video game. And, you know, I don't know what the solution is, but it might be Steph Curry, right? Because you can imagine, every fourth grader can imagine them, there might be that side, right? And if you can win a game from 37 feet, you might want to play basketball. ball. And so to me, that's a super valuable thing. His ability to deliver delight is ridiculous

and very valuable to the NBA. I completely agree. I mean, he's, it is the combination of, it's like, you know, what is the definition of luck is when timing and preparation come together. But like, I mean, the NBA kind of lucked into him, right, where he have, you have a guy who, you know, two-parent home, two athletes, humbled because people passed on him going into college, humbled some even by his, you know, early reputation in the NBA and just humbled basically by his upbringing. On the other hand, so ridiculously skilled and the type of skill which like the new NBA thrives on. You know, at just the right moment in time.

Like if he doesn't, if he comes along at any other moment in the NBA's history, he doesn't have this kind of career. Or if the Bucks, remember the Bucks, remember the Bucks, Rafford he and Mont or Monta Ellis, you know, like, imagine what happened at the Bucks, like, you know, we'll take a, we'll take a shot of stuff. Like, imagine if that, if that happens. Oh, for sure. Yeah. There's, um, Thorpe and I used to joke about, uh, Guillermo Diaz.

Do you remember Guillermo Diaz? Uh, yes. Yes. Just wrong, right, right, right? Yeah, I mean, but it wasn't that long before stuff came along, right? And, like, and everyone was like, oh, well, he's kind of small. He doesn't have a position. I don't know if he's a point guard or shooting guard.

But, you know, he could shoot like crazy. super athlete, and literally couldn't make the NBA. Not saying he was Steph, but it was a kind of player that you know, it just, it took some, you know, and Steph wouldn't have been Steph, I don't think, without Steve Kerr there. Correct.

They both have this similar kind of yeah, it all matters like crazy, but that's not the end of the world, you know, we'll let there's a little bit of shrugging, which I think is super important because it lets other people thrive. Right? Like, General Green's been kind of a hot mess in a lot of ways.

A lot of teams wouldn't have put up with, you know, Snapchatting a spedometer at 160 miles an hour going into the Oakland tunnel or various things that have happened on social media with strippers or whatever and things that make clubs late at night. But there's a little bit of like, whatever, you know, crap happens. You know, LeBron doesn't put up with that, but Steph does. And, you know, and Kevin Granted touchy guys we talked about earlier, I think it's no coincidence that Kerr and,

Curry are the ones who keep saying that Kevin's the best player in the world, because they know that he needs to hear that, which is important. Curry doesn't need to hear that, right? And that's important because that was Kevin Grant be on that team. Yeah, I also think that I also think that Kerr is not, he's not as hard driving about turnovers, right? Like, Steph's a high turnover guy. Right. I mentioned style of play.

Like everybody, you know, we all point out, we all point out, like, what he does off a ball screen, but it's his ability to, within that, system with Draymond, with KD, with Andra Godala, to play without the basketball as well, so he can play both. He's not really a point guard, but he's not, he also gets a chance to do some point guard stuff. Like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the, all the planets being aligned at the right moment. And then he's, for the most part, had the goods to deliver. I'll be interested to see if he's able to consistently deliver in the finals, something that in the past he's struggled to do, but he's had, I think, reasonable explanations, maybe not excuses, injuries, fatigue, where he's

not hurt, and he can't be tired after that timeout. Fair? Yeah, I'm worried. I mean, I guess this is the value of Durant is I think steps landing in the final. Brett Brown has this phrase deliver the players to April, right, which comes from Spurs, where, you know, you want to, like, like, Tim Duncan would arrive at the beginning of the playoffs and played 1,800 minutes in years that, like, James Hardin had played 3,000. and that would make him less injured, faster, higher jumping, all these things, right?

And less likely to get hurt, too. I think Steph's arriving a little fresher than most years. But I do think that games in November totally matter to how tired you are in June if you don't have meaningful breaks in between. I've done all this sports science research. You need, like, you know, three, like five efforts in two weeks is the maximum your body can sustain in any five max efforts in two weeks

without it degrading your performance and increasing your injury risk. So these top NBA players do that every two weeks they break that rule, right? Kauai is the only example we have of someone who's really been fairly aggressively managed recently to reduce that and is now we're all thinking the MVP of the playoffs, right?

So, like, you know, they're all a little beat up, they're all a little degraded, but maybe because KD handled so many of the plays where Steph would have been the high exertion guy, you know, all that dribbling around and big people and recognizing what the defense is and that's all super high exertion.

So I think he probably is a little bouncer than most years at the time. And so that's why I think the Warriors are going to win. But, yeah, if they got hurt, if Steph's hurt, who, like that's scary, right? And, you know, this Warriors team without Katie and Steph I have to think it's bad. You agree?

Yes. But he's not. He's the healthiest he's ever been. I think at this point in time, and the least, he's had the least tread worn off his tires because they've had this long break and getting ready. And the one thing that he's done a great job of is when he has time off and he comes back, he's usually pretty sharp right away. Hey, listen. Go ahead. One more time.

Oh, I will think he's freaky strong. Yeah. I think it was the same bachelor homes. He wanted a story about how he worked out. And I think that there was a movement. It might have been like a weighted lunge or some kind of squat where Steph could lift the most on the team. And I think you can see that sometimes where he takes contact in the air and he just absorbed it very well with good balance. I think he's a little, but he's not weak.

No, I think some of that is the Steve Nash balance stuff that they do as well. When Steve was a consultant to them, I think he worked out as well. Henry, this has been awesome, awesome. How can people get, download your pod and get all of your stuff? It's true hoop.com. That's always, that's why I live. True hoop.com. Thanks for coming on with us.

I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Super fun. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays in noon Eastern, 3 p.m. Pacific. All right. That's it for All Ball. My thanks to Henry Abbott. And a reminder to listen to the Doug Gottlieb show every day,

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