The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb - All Ball - Juwan Howard to Michigan thoughts; KD's All-NBA snub; Blazers Asst. David Vanterpool goes inside their playoff run

Episode Date: May 24, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb gives his thoughts on Juwan Howard taking the Michigan job, and why the long lasting fame of the Fab 5 proves his point about the benefits of playing college sports, why Kevin Durant was robbed 1st Team All-NBA headscratcher of Paul George over Kevin Durant, and is joined by Blazers Asst. Dave Vanterpool who gives an inside look at Portland's dramatic playoff run, and what makes the Warriors unstoppable.. Download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Everyone says everything brings them joy. That's her whole thing. Okay, yeah, but when I stare at that limited edition box of cheese, it's in the corner of my room, that brings me joy. Or the, or the Pokemon Oreos that I keep, That brings me joy. That reminds me of my youth. It wasn't that long ago.

Listen to the My Culturda Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. Welcome into my podcast that only covers ball. Basketball. That's right. It's the all ball podcast.

Thanks so much for download and subscribing and rating us. If you rate us, I'm told it helps us. I don't know. Do it. We have a tremendous guest. He's an assistant coach with the Portland Trailblazers. He's been part of the Oklahoma City Thunder's front office. He's been an assistant coach in Russia as well.

And he was a player in Russia. He played in the NBA a little bit. He's a great player at St. Bonaventure's name is David Vanderpul. You've seen his name as a candidate for several head coaching jobs. He's yet to land one. We'll ask him about it. But before we get to his incredible story, and wait to you hear David Vanderpul who he got called up from the ABA

he's playing for Kevin Pritchard in Kansas City, he gets called up from the ABA Wait to you hear the 22 or 27 NBA games he played Why he didn't play as well as he wanted to play I mean no one actually plays as well as they won no one ever goes like You know I completely killed it right there It's just not the way most people are wired Anyway I have a bunch of things to get to Let me start with some college basketball news.

Joanne Howard is the new head coach at Michigan. Now, there's a bunch of different ways you could go there. If you've listened to me in the past, you know that I am a proponent of the college system. I am because I think that the player, even the successful one, benefits far more so than the university ever could. And the greatest example of that is the Fab Five. the Fab Five did not win a Big Ten regular season. There was no Big Ten tournament back then. They did go to two final fours.

They did not win an NCAA championship. And yet because of, you know, the fact they started five freshmen, because of the length of their shorts, the coolness of their jerseys and the shoes, and frankly, how good they were. Think about it now. Chris Webber is one of the premier announcers covering the NBA.

And I think a lot of that, a lot of that is how great a player he was. But at least a portion of it is the fact that he was a member and probably the most talented member of the Fab Five. Jalen Rose is ESPN's lead NBA studio analyst. Jan Rose is at a good NBA career. He's a great guy.

He's an awesome guy to be around. He's funny. He's interesting. He loves the sport. But let's be honest, Jalen Rose is most known for his time with the Fab Five. And, you know, you bring back a head coach who is made, if you go back and remember, he signed, I feels like the first $100 million deal.

But you bring back a coach who is known among other things and maybe mostly for being part of the Fab Five. I actually think this really helps cement my argument that all the promotion, all the acclaim that you received during your time in college, it's going to benefit you in and out of your sport for 100 years if you live that long. And the Fab Five, who, you know, people use this argument to, the Fab Five was getting paid, you know, they had a guy paying them to go there, you know, Jalen Rosen, some other guys to go there, whatever. like even though they weren't doing it the right way and you'll have people say, you know, they should have been able to use their name and likeness and they can. For the rest of their lives, they can sell shirts, they can write a book, they had their 30 for 30. They can collect off of the two years they spent in college, the Fab 5 and Michigan.

And by the way, Michigan benefits from having the Fab 5 being played there, but, you know, there's also a dark side to it. the banners did come down. They weren't able to have those guys on campus until recently. And like any, like any former student at Michigan, they're going to ask you for money and they're going to promote all your successes. So he wouldn't have gotten the job had he not gone to Michigan. Now, can he make it work? Of course he can.

Big Ten is a coach's league. I mean, you have some amazing basketball coach in that league. And it's not thought of as a cheaters league. And you're at Michigan now. you're coming off of a crispy, clean, perfectly run program by John B-line. And while you may not have had as much success recruiting top 25 or top 50 kids, it hasn't mattered because the bottom line is over the past couple of years, they've had an immense amount of success in the Big Ten, in the Big Ten tournament, in the NCAA tournament, and putting guys in the NBA draft,

which is all you're fighting for. So will Joanne Howard work? I don't know. I think Michigan was a little backed into. a corner. Like, I love LaValle Jordan, and he's a former assistant there, a class guy, and he's coaching at his alma mater. But I would also tell you that, you know, because there were no African-American head coach in

the Big Ten, and because, you know, you had from LeBron James to Chris Weber to Jalen Rose, anybody who's Michigan saying, like, yeah, Joanne Howard's been an assistant coach, like, even for Ed Cooley, who's had a crazy amount of success at Providence. Providence. LaValle's only been to one NCAA tournament. You know, it felt like it would have been a disappointment if you would have hired those guys for Michigan alums and for Michigan's fan base. So the people got what they want. And now we find out if Juan Howard can put together kind of staff and land of type of players establish a system that goes along with a very healthy and well-run culture at Michigan. I can't wait to see. Frankly, I hope it works. And I hope he learns

from some of the mistakes of others. Michigan State's rolling. Ohio State has bounced back in recruiting. I do think Iowa is going to be really, really good this year. I think Indiana has kind of bottomed out in terms of their success, although now all of a sudden you're not just losing your best freshman, you're losing your best veterans as well. They haven't yet hit.

Minnesota's got good young talent. It's going to be a challenge. And doing it the right way, really hard. It's not easy. But what Joanne Howard needs to do is legally use the same connections that he has with the university. All the people that he knows, all the NBA players and front office people that he's touched during his long career to help him. And his son's a very talented 16-year-old player to help him get into the right homes and make the right evaluation. and you got to hire really good staff.

The coaching the basketball, I have no doubt that he can do it. None. Zero. Relating the kids, no doubt that he can do it. He has a kid of his own. He was a player once. He's not too old. And because of his success and his time in the NBA as an assistant coach and as a player,

they will listen. If he is dedicated and I have no reason to believe he's not, he'll list to it. But evaluating the right players, playing the right style that fits your personnel, understanding how to practice, how to work, you know, how to get kids to improve, how to get kids that buy into what you want

and getting guys that'll stay. It's going to be fascinating to see how it plays out. I know we operate on the system that this thought that NBA guys generally haven't worked out, and a lot of them have not. In spite of the fact that Chris Mullen got fired, as anybody besides me pointed out, they did make the NCAA tournament this year.

Right. That's kind of remarkable that we deem it to be a complete failure when it wasn't a complete failure. They got better every year. And this year they read the NCAA tournament. Was it good enough for him to maintain his job? By their estimation, no. I don't believe that was a complete failure. Clyde Drexler, that was a failure.

The story about Clyde Drexler was, and I shared it on Twitter yesterday, was that his first game as coach. And Clyde was never seen as that hard a worker when he's with the dream team. The story of the dream team was, if you go back and remember 1992, There were people that thought Clyde was creeping up on Michael Jordan, that he was getting close to being at Michael Jordan's level. And between when they faced off in the finals and when they faced off in Dream Team practices, Michael Jordan let everybody know who the best player on Earth actually was,

who the best two guard on Earth actually was. But Clyde was the guy who, you know, now we react and were like, well, Christian Leitner shouldn't have been on the team. And should John Stockton been down it or should Isaiah Thomas have been on it? Of course, Isaiah and Jordan had beef way back when. But the guy who, by people I know his estimation, shouldn't have been on it, based upon how seriously he took it, how hard he practiced, how much it mattered to him, was Clyde the Glyde.

But Clyde showed up at 702 to his first game as college head coach at Houston. One of his assistant coaches, he asked him, what time's game time? He said, 7.05 tip. And he strolled in at 7 o'clock. He walked down the court at 702 when they were introducing the teams. It was like something out of a Like that was a manager from a league of their own Jimmy Dugan stumbling out

That's you know He was sober Clyde was sober but it's the same kind of idea That's not we have with Juan Howard Coaching in his own university A guy who's put in the time As assistant coach in the NBA Wants the job

But there's a lot too coaching in college There's boosters, there's grades There's recruiting, there's younger player There's development of younger players. There's finding a staff that knows how to evaluate the right kind of kids that you can get. You can't get everybody. I mean, unless you're Penny Hardaway or your Kentucky, you can't get everybody. So you got to recruit kids that you can get.

It will be fascinating because the last time Michigan was down, really down, that's when Michigan State first pop back up. Remember there was a car accident with Robert Trailers, Grandma supposedly owned a Ford Explorer and that was during Mateen Cleves' visit to Michigan. Matine Cleves goes to Michigan, this Michigan State thing, I don't know if it happens to the level that it's happened. So be fascinated if Michigan takes a year or two to get it going,

what happens to the rest of the teams in that league. There's no reason it can't work, but you better surround people, surround yourself with people who know how to make it work, have complete buy-in and be willing to learn. I think you will. Let's find out. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays in noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app.

All right. We're going to get to Dave Vanderpool in a second. I want to say this in regards to the NBA. First in regards to the all-NBA team. I don't know when they voted for these. Do they vote mid-season? Because Paul George being first team all-N-Bay, once he got hurt, he was not the same player. whereas Kevin Rand played 78 games and I thought he was better. I thought he was a complete player. Paul George's complete player as well. His three point percentage was slightly down. But if you watched the last month of the season,

he wasn't stat patting. He was trying to be a really good teammate. Matter of fact, that's how he played early in the Clippers series before, you know, people questioned him. And he said, remember, I'm Kevin Durant, which was basically like, oh, you don't think he'd score? fuck you watch me score 45 points.

So I don't understand people's, I guess the amount of vitriol towards Kevin Durant. Like, all right, he left Oklahoma City, went to Golden State, and he proved that he was better than LeBron in the last two NBA finals. And then he's been, he was great this year. But if you remember back to start the playoffs, why isn't he scoring more?

And then he goes, FU, I'm going to score 45 a game. And he does. And he's carrying the team. while the other guys aren't shooting as well, and then he gets hurt, and they beat Portland, who's overachieved, just to be honest, overachieved. And they survive against Portland, you know, three great comebacks, unbelievable performance against Houston in game six, and suddenly it's like, yeah, they don't really need Kevin Durant. And then this comes out where he's not first team all NBA.

Like, what are we doing here? He's the best player in the damn league. And I think Clay Thompson does have a point. Like we're, we've gotten to the, we've gotten this play. where, and part of it's how the CBA is written, where you can't get a super max contract unless you're on the all NBA team. And are you better off being on the all NBA team? You get more money if you stay in a, with a bad team and put up huge numbers than you

do if you, if you're on a great team and you put up really, really, really good numbers. And I get that Max Kellerman and I'm just as guilty as anybody. Like you can't, Max said on his show that James Hart, shouldn't be first team all NBA because you should count playoffs because the playoffs are two months long. I think there's a remedy for it. There's a happy medium. You could either do MVP and count and have it count everything. Or you could do it like in any tournament you play in where you have an all tournament team.

You know, you have an all NBA team and then you have an all NBA playoffs team. Maybe that's the way to do it. But if we're going to do regular season as the cutoff for awards, There's no way James Hardens not on that list. But I also think that they undersold how good Clay Thompson was for the most part of this year. And I know he went, you know, a month without hitting shots. He still ended up shooting almost the same percentage from two, slightly lower from three, averaging the same number of points.

And he's a tremendous defender. For whatever reason he didn't make it. I'll leave you to this in regards to Golden State. And we'll have a good discussion here with David Vanderpull. I personally think that Draymond is the difference. Now, Draymond being in shape and being healthy and making shots makes even Draymond different from Draymond of the last couple of months. But other teams have lead guards that score a ton. Other teams have two guards that score and defend.

Maybe not as well as Steph's ridiculous. But no one has a Draymond who can guard any position, who can bring the ball up, can play down the post, you know, can also get the negative attention, away from other players and attracted by the officials and by the opposing bench and by the opposing fans. But Draymond Green's versatility and his success at each one of those different spots, especially defensively, and then even offensively, I think is what makes him special. I really, really do. In coming weeks, we'll start to cover free agency, but I want to add this about Magic Johnson.

And it's amazing because he was an amazing basketball player. Nobody's listened to this things otherwise. So this is not me taking a shot at Magic, the basketball player, or even maybe the person, but just the reality of what he's done as a business professional. Because Magic is a sought-after motivational speaker. But think about it if you actually understood what he just did to a brand to a company, to a franchise that helped create this almost impenetrable image. Like that was

That was nasty what he did to the Lakers. Nasty. He only played for one franchise. He had to retire early because he contracted the HIV virus. They welcomed him back when he was cleared to play. I mean, they've tied them, they hired him as a head coach when he was ill-prepared for it. They hired him as president of basketball operations

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Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody. gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

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He's really good at that. But it's disingenuous. So before you listen to Magic Sicafans tell you how Jeannie's an idiot and, he's a idiot and, the brothers are idiots and Rob Polink is a bad guy. Any of these things might actually be true. But how would you handle it if the guy who was in charge didn't show up to work hardly at all? Said he had other businesses, but none of those businesses really needed him to be there? And then when he did show up at work, didn't want to take anybody else's word for it or work in group think,

want to make all the decisions on his own when many of the decisions he had previously made had not panned out to be good ones. you'd probably send an email or two or talk a little shit or two as well. And that is what Rob Polinka is accused of doing. And even if he did it and he shouldn't have done it, you know, magic shouldn't do, call attention to it on national TV. Because if he really loved the Lakers, he just did a ton of harm to their ability to land free agents, to land assistant coaches, to land players in the future. Because now it looks like the Lakers are a complete dumpster fire, which they may be, but he also poured kerosene on a dumpster fire,

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like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to StateFarm.com for a quote today. school, I never really was like dating around or anything like that. And then I got into a long-term relationship and was dating someone for a few years. And then after getting out of that relationship, I think this past year or so or whatever, whatever, has been like me, like actually living life as a single person. It's very hard. And I think it's not like, not hard, I should say, but like, it's very different knowing nothing but long-term relationships. And then moving.

into like the single lifestyle that's like, quote, dating around and like feeling people out. That's kind of been something interesting to navigate. Listen to the My Culturah Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Let's get you to David Vanderpult, who was a great player, great scoring guard during his time playing in college at St. Bonaventure, and then mostly overseas. He's become an outstanding assistant coach and likely head coach. very soon in the NBA.

Here's David Vanderpul of the Portland Trailblazers. David, how are you? Hey, Doug. How you doing? Good, man. How long does it take to kind of, I don't know, to get the perspective on the entire season, right? Because when it just ends, and especially the way in which your season ended,

where the last three games you had 17, 18, and 17-point leads, right? There's, I'm sure, a ton of disappointment. and, you know, everybody has, every basketball player and coach has that DVR in their head where they're rewinding plays and we should have done this, we should have done that, and this would have happened, everything would have changed. How long does it take before you get the perspective of how we had a hell of a run and we did so without our starting center? Well, I mean, you know, typically that can be a long process.

You know, you always kind of look backwards and you start to think about different things that, you know, like you said, that you could have done differently, that you could have, you know, zag, zig here when you zag there, and made a left turn instead of a right turn. But ultimately, you know, I think for us, I know that we've always had a next day mentality. And, you know, I know me typically, even personally, I try to, you know, within 24 hours, you know, definitely, definitely no longer than 36 hours, you make sure that, you know, you have a short memory.

And, you know, we've basically done that throughout our seasons. We've had ups and downs. We've had different situations where we've done well and other times not so well. But ultimately, especially in the NBA, the games come so fast, the next thing comes so quickly that, you know, you kind of want to have as short a memory as possible. And you celebrate those small successes to an extent. And then you move on and you mull over those. those tough times to an extent and then you move forward just as well.

So I think having that built in our psyche for so long throughout the course of the season has allowed us to kind of reflect on it in a more positive manner. I mean, guys showed up for the interviews and, you know, it was still some talk about, you know, what we could have done differently, but after that it was just really a reflection on how well we did throughout the season. I've been trying to sit here and break down in my own brain. why the Warriors are so good. And everybody falls back on the well,

Steph and Clay. But you kind of have your own Steph and Clay. Granted, you know, I do think there's a little bit of a difference. I'm sure you may differ in that opinion because those are your guys. I think the difference is Draymond. And obviously he's playing better now than he played during the regular season. Hell, then he played last year in the playoffs. He's lighter.

He's making shots. He's more. active. Like, I just, I think he's the difference maker and you have to see it on the court and have a super, and have a basketball IQ to kind of get it. But maybe I'm wrong. Is it, is it, is it Steph is something we haven't seen before or is Draymond the difference in what makes them what they are? I think, I think it's twofold. Obviously, those guys, you know, step and play work their tails off, just as Damon C.J. do, and they are otherworldly, level type of players and they can change games, franchises, make other players better.

They all have that ability. I think, you know, the Warriors just as a whole, first of all, I mean, you know, people, especially, you know, everybody's had different attitudes as to, you know, what could be done and what should be done and who would do better and all these type of things. But, I mean, I listen to saying that I've heard before, like, it's one thing to, to, you know, look in a fish tank and see a shark swimming, it's another thing to jump in and swim with them. And, you know, the reality is, you know, you look at Draymond Green and the intangibles, aside from the triple doubles, aside from the things that he does that you kind of just see,

as far as statistically, the ability to allow Steph and Clay to just be themselves and do what they do is what I think Draymond affords them. That, you know, everybody just can't do that. You know, people try to compare Damien and CJ to Steph and Clay. I think that's completely different as far as players, as far as the abilities, and their strengths and weaknesses. And they all each have a bunch of all of that. They all have a bunch of strengths and they all have a bunch of weaknesses that can be exploited

in different ways. The difference, I think, is, again, having a player like Draymond, who allows Steph to basically not play. point the point guard position for most of the game. He doesn't bring the ball up the court. He doesn't get them into their offensive sets. He's allowed to run around and afforded that because of Draymond Green being such a facilitator and so capable in their role.

Damien doesn't really have that all the time, you know, consistently. So, you know, who knows what it might be like for him if that was the case. Draymond also does a lot of things and, you know, I believe Clay is a phenomenal defender. I think he's top-notch and he works his tail off. But also defensively played, doing what he does defensively, Draymard covers up a bunch of mistakes for guys that they make consistently. They also have a certain level of intelligence as a whole, as a group, where they switch and make decisions on the fly.

It's not necessarily something that's built in with their schematics. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But being as smart as they are and having me. haven't been together for as long as they've been together and been successful for as long as Draymont has been there, it just affords them a certain level of ability to be able to do the things that they are very, very special at. And when you are afforded the ability to do things that you're very, very special at and you're already on another level as it is in those certain things for those guys

the shooting. I mean, for Clay to be in positions where he's had games where he's had, I don't know, 50 points in half or whatever it is and taking like two dribbles. I mean, that's, you know, that is actually indicative of not only his ability because nothing, nothing taken away from him and the ability that he has, but you have to have other guys that can afford you that at time. And sometimes that's, you know, Draymond does everything else for them. Yeah. And honestly, that, and though Durant is more of a ball stopper, rightfully so, than other guys, he also is able to cover up defensively because of his length and able to have to play essentially point guard to let Steph be Steph.

And, you know, we've gotten this weird place to where there are people that think, well, maybe they're better without him. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah, that's... Not even close. Not even close. I mean, not to cut you all, but just, you know, people think that,

KD is a ball stopper. I would argue he's the one that can calm down everything. When things get erratic, give him the ball. You'll get a quality shot. He's probably the most efficient score in the NBA. He makes shots from everywhere. He's constantly a 40, 50, 90 guy. I mean, you know, when you get that type of talent

where you have a guy who basically you can give him the ball and say, all right, we need to calm down. We need to make sure we get a bucket here. You just give them the ball. Now nobody has to even run around. Now they also are allowed and afforded the luxury to be able to conserve energy so that they can run around consistently. So, you know, just, I mean, imagining that.

It's an amazing point that you make because I've actually said, I thought that Houston had the right kind of game plan the last two years. Remember they had Joe Johnson last year? And then this year was mellow. And I thought those guys, look, you don't necessarily, at this point in their career and because of their weaknesses defensively, you don't want them for 35 minutes a night. But in the playoffs, what they lack is what KD brings, which is like, hey, all those guys,

everybody's exhausted, right? Because you're playing in a super high level. And just, let's just throw it in the post. I know analytics tell us that that's not a smart spot. But obviously the Warriors are very good passers and their split action out of a post is special. But it does allow you to like, everybody else just chill out and let's let KD eat or let's let I thought it was a mistake by Houston. know about everything else. And I thought they had Carmelo and the idea of, hey, in a playoff series, James Harden getting 20 in the first half is a bad thing because he's got

nothing in the tank in the fourth quarter, whereas had they had a Carmelo or had they used Joe Johnson the year before, just what KD brings. Everybody else chill out and let's let him eat a little bit. Yeah, well, and I agree with you, especially offensively. The hard part with that. And again, you know, Mello, Melo obviously was elite when he was in his prime. You know, as he got older, things

got a lot tougher for him offensively in certain situations. Joe Johnson as well, elite in his prime and as he got older and you know, less apt to take some long distance shots, then that started to change a little bit. They're still walking buckets. Don't get me wrong. But I think

that the difference between them and Kevin is also that elite level defender, which Kevin is like he led Golden State and blocked shots last season for sure. So, I mean, you know, when you add that along with the things that he can do offensively, he's Joe Johnson, Carmelo Anthony put together on steroids offensively because of his efficiency, because of, you know, being that type of guy that can make shots consistently from all over the court, as well as being able to meet guys at the rim and become the premier shot block on their team,

I mean, you know, that's just invaluable. And again, it just allows and afford those guys. You know, it's just another guy that afford those guys. The opportunity to do the things that they are very, very special at an elite solely. They don't have to really do some of the other things. They don't have to facilitate for other guys. They don't have to worry about, you know,

such and such as that. set because he hasn't tested the ball, you know, 14 times down the court, they can just play. And, you know, it just affords them a lot of luxuries that a lot of teams, a lot of people just don't have. Is that, in part what happened to Dame? Is that,

you know, there was so much energy expended, emotional energy, physical energy, intellectual energy in taking down Oklahoma City. I mean, and that one, that, I mean, look, that mattered to him. and look, I also think there's other parts to it.

I think Denver, the altitude, I think, the length of the series, seven games. But by the end of that series, he was a different guy. And I even think if you look back, as I went back and watched Game 4, and there was a couple plays late in regulation where he was a little indecisive driving to the hoop, almost drove to pass instead of driving to score, which is very, very much unlike him. Right. How much, in your mind, how much of it was the skill and athleticism and the different coverages of Golden State?

How much and at the end of Denver? And how much of it was like, dude, that guy unloaded the tank to beat Oklahoma City and early on in the Denver series. And it came back to haunt him at sometimes later in the playoffs. Well, I think, you know, again, you make great points that it probably was a combination of all of those things. I just think that, you know, and our health and performance staff is one of the best in the league. We've had great success with our guys as far as their load and dealing with them being able to have something in the tank as we move forward. I do think that some of that played a part. Some of the fatigue came in.

Damien always had injuries or not injuries, always had something hurting. And, you know, as a former player, and I know you know this old attitude, like if something isn't hurting, then I must be dead because something's supposed to be hurting every time I step on the court. Something's bothering me, you know what I mean? So that's just something. Those are things that just, you know, a part of the season and part of the things that go on. Everybody has something going on with their bodies and with their level of fatigue.

I do think that the schematic played a major role to an extent. and I say that to say that. So they start out blessing Dane and CJ, as a matter of fact. And, you know, we knew that that was going to be a part of what the game plan was going to be defensively to try to stop those guys and shut those guys down. But as we, you know, had some success, especially early on in pretty much every game except for maybe game one, we pretty much had a lot of success. We were leading that Golden State Series.

we led more than we trailed in that series. Yes, it's absolutely great. And our first half were always very productive for us. But a lot of times where you get teams that kind of back off of a schematic that they may feel, okay, this isn't working out how we at hope, but let's change this, let's alter that. They actually committed even more. And when they committed more and became more aggressive, and as the game wore on and the weak side pulled over even more just allowing, you know,

whoever was on the weak side to just be over there by themselves, it got even tougher. And I think that is what wore on Damien more than anything because it was so consistent and it was consistently aggressive and it was consistently like the temperature went up higher than it did. You figure sometimes, okay, we're having success. Let's figure something else out. They committed even more to it. And I think you saw that level of commitment last season from New Orleans,

when we played New Orleans in the first round and lost in the first round and got swept. And they basically had success in what their schematic was, and it made them even more confident and more aggressive and more, you know, Golden State basically believed in it, and they went even harder as the games wore. And, you know, I just think that, you know, a lot of those things that were contributed to, him struggling along with those you know the fatigue factor the other series that went on he didn't play great when we when we played against Denver as far as statistically but again his level of responsibility and the things he's responsible for are so tremendous you know I'm just proud of

his commitment to his responsibilities for his teammates and for his for his team and for his organization. So, you know, no, no fault of his, nothing, you know, he did, he does his best every night no matter what, because again, he had so much, so much responsibility for his team and for his teammates. And he, he loves it and believes in it and really puts his mind and his soul into it. Let's go back for you. By the way, your boy, D. Clint gives you shout out. he uh he he he's he's come on the pod before and uh he told me he told me he's the he's the best uh it's it's darry mcclinton you know back in by the way if you're listening to this you want to uh you want to download and listen uh just google search uh when darren mclinton was on our all ball podcast um okay

so you grew up exactly where like don't give don't give me the the general i grew up in the dmv like exactly where did you grow up i grew up in silver spring maryland okay now is that that that's kind of suburbia. That's a nice, that's a decent side of the tracks, right? Well, I guess it depends on what part of that area. Actually, Silver Spring, I was, I grew up, it was nicer, I guess. Being in the late 80s, early 90s in the D.C. area, it was really tough. It was different, different scenario, different situation. I did grow up in the school, the high school that I went to was immigrant.

County and Montgomery County is a very big area so Silver Spring is like where I grew up is right across the DC line and it goes all of Montgomery County goes all the way out to Rockville and slash Gatorsburg which is about 30 minutes from DC. Okay. You know, if that makes sense, I lived about, I guess, five minutes from northwest Washington, D.C. And Gatorsburg is about 30 minutes from maybe more from Washington, D.C. So it just kind of depends on how you look at it, how you slice it. I didn't grow up in a rough, rough environment because there was much rougher than the environment that I grew up in. I did have some opportunities, so it definitely helped. And I'm proud of being from Montgomery County and growing up in that area.

You know, a lot of times people ask, well, you know, why do you say you from D.C.? Well, the thing is when people don't live in that area or not familiar, with the area. If I were to say I was from Maryland, the first thing that people may think is where? Baltimore. If I said Maryland, people think Baltimore, right? Yeah. And they think the wire, then they think the wire. I never, I never was anywhere near the environment of Baltimore. I never was in Baltimore as a youth. I never had even, I think the only place I had been in Baltimore was the harbor growing up. So that's like the only, my only, my only familiar.

familiarity with Baltimore as a teenager and growing up. So that's why the people from the metropolitan, we used to call it the metropolitan area, not the DMV, but the people from the metropolitan area, we say, I'm from D.C., because that's the only thing that we were familiar with. We didn't want to have that confused. Where did you grow up playing?

Like, was there a rec center, outdoor park? Oh, all over the place. Tacoma Park, Tacoma Park. A lot of times we were there at Tacoma Park. played out outside at Clarenty Cain, which is in northwest, played at Sligo Creek, which is in kind of Silver Spring, Maryland, I guess it's in that area. I mean, I used to play at Michigan Park sometimes, which is in northwest as well.

I think those were probably, and again, a lot of places outside. Yeah. Because that's kind of just what we did. But once I was, you know, had grown up a little bit, it was a little bit further along as far as the high schooler, you know, coming closer to my senior year, we would get together with some friends. And more than anything, we were at Tacoma Rec, which is at Tacoma Park. Tacoma Park is a part of Maryland slash D.C., part of Tacoma Park is in D.C.,

the other part of the area? Who are your guys? Who are your guys? Who is part of your crew that went on to playing other places, some of the guys that are? Oh, well, Darren McClinton, who you've had on the podcast, Jason Muscary, who was a little bit younger than I. He's younger than I am. He was, I think, a freshman at Blair.

We both went to Blair. He was a freshman at Blair when I was a senior. Steve Francis, who was also a freshman at Blair when I was a senior. Damn. Franchise. Yeah, franchise. Yeah. Riley Inge.

We grew up kind of being rivals in high school and became like, closest of friends. Keith Vini, who broke the NCAA three-point record, I think, in the game while he was in college at Marshall, played with Jason Williams while he was there, played with Billy Donovan. We always were kind of together, always worked out together, Duane Simpkins, who played in Maryland. We used to work out together all the time. I mean, all of the guys in the area, we always worked out together, and as we grew older,

it just kind of branched out into different things. So we would go up the University of Maryland and work out and hoop up there. And, you know, up there you get, you know, Chris Weber, who was with the Wizards at the time. And this was in the summer of Walt Williams, who was playing an NBA at the time, Ennis Wattley.

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Open your free, iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. I was playing the NBA at a time, a new bowl. He used to come up there with us all the time. And you get a whole host of different guys as we got older. But my main crew was those guys. and we all, you know, we all just loved it, just loved being around each other, love to compete, and, you know, just basically just, it was so different. We just went and hooped and played versus trying to, you know, go through these drills and different things.

And I think that's like the start of where we started kind of doing little drills before we were hooped. But more than anything, it was just about playing as much as possible. Okay, that's actually brings me to a question I have. Is it, are guys better now because they don't? Like my friends that are assistants in the NBA are like, you know, guys don't hoop that much. And I was like, really? They're like, nah, they get together. They all do individuals or small groups and they get at it.

Do you think guys are better now? I'm like, look, I think guys are more skilled now generally. But I also think that's because they're working on those skills, the ball skills off a ball screen and catch and shoot at a younger age than we did when we were kids. but is this a better process for developing better players or do you think that hoopin just going because that's what I, my dad grew up as he was a New Yorker so his way of teaching me to play was like he would take me to parks when I was young and like get me in games and just like I play all day

like that was his way of that's how I learned how to play what do you think is better? Well, I guess it's you know sometimes it comes down to how you view basketball and me growing up in the era that's more similar to as a matter of fact, the same as the area that you grew up in, I believe to make better basketball players, you've got to have guys playing basketball. And I think it should probably be more of a combination of the two.

I don't think that people spend enough time combining that, the playing all the time and the skill work. I mean, guys, like you said, have a high level of skill, and you put him in a workout and you're like, ooh, he can, he's incredible, well, and then you put him in a game and you've got to tell him everything. And it's, you know, that is the part that I think becomes a lost art because kids don't, they don't just go play and learn and figure out

and, you know, pick up your four other guys and say, all right, you know, we're going to go hoop. And they're not your friends. They're just four other guys and you know, okay, this guy can shoot. This guy is not so much a shooter, but he can bang a little bit. And now you've got to figure out how to best play with these guys to win because you definitely don't want to sit out and have to wait for the neck down.

So now you start to form a pattern of competition. You start to form a pattern of leadership. You start to form a pattern of communication with guys that you don't necessarily play with all the time. You start to form a level of evaluation. of guys and saying, okay, he can shoot from here or he's pretty good from there or this, that, and the third. You actually have to feed your mind and feed your brain the ability to get through those situations. And I think it helps. The problem is, again, you go through all the skill work.

And even playing under the whistle all the time, it's just different. I think you need those things as well. But I think that a lot is lost when you don't just go hoop. You know, I mean, because it's just so many different skills that you develop from having to just go hoot. Everything is not set up for you. All of the chairs and all of the cones and all those things is not how things happen through the course of a normal game. And I think you get a chance to see the level of, like, the level of stuff when you see the marrying of the two, when you see Golden State Play. Dr. Mon Green, you put them in an individual work.

and, you know, I'm just using him for it as an example because we just brought him up, but put him in an individual workout, and I don't know that, you know, it's like blown away by his athleticism or, you know, if you want him to just come off the screen and shoot the ball or, you know, do this at the third. Now, he has a high-level skill, but he's a hooper. Right. You know what I mean?

And I think that sticks out like no other. Kevin Durant is a hooper. Yeah. He has a high-level skill. Here's the thing. Like, Draymond Green's the type of guy that no matter what court you go to, to an America, he stays on the court all day. You're like, man, I don't know, like his team stays on the court all day, which is what it's kind of supposed to be about. Do you own or rent your home?

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Let's ride. So why St. Bonavent. Jim Barron was your coach, wouldn't he? Yeah. Why St. Bonaventure? And most people who are listening to this or hoop heads, they know. like where St. Bonaventure is in Oli in New York, but why did you go there? That was an interesting decision for me.

The main schools that I kind of came down to, I had an offer from GW. Mike Jarvis was the head coach at the time, and they were, I think they were nationally ranked before I got there. I know they were the whole time I was in school in Atlanta, 10. Gary Williams was at Maryland, and I did have an offer there. I had an offer from Rice University, which was out in Texas. So I went and visited. I went to all of those schools, as a matter of fact. And at the end of the day, a part of me really wanted to not be in the D.C. area,

again, growing up there in the late 80s or the 90s, it was a little rough, a little tough. I wasn't sure if being that close to home and around my, my friends and some of that stuff was going to be as beneficial for me as necessary. Coupled with, coming out of high school, I was 6'5 point guard. And, you know, in talking with even my high school coach at the time, a lot of the schools that were recruiting me wanted me to play more combo at the time. And his thing was, and it made sense to me was, you know, at 6'5, you know, on the wing, you're good, but as a point guard, you're special.

So, you know, that stuck out to me a lot. And honestly, St. Bonaventure was the school that recruited me to play point guard. And I looked at that situation. And I said this, it's funny because I said this to different people at different times. But, you know, some people see despair. Others see opportunity. And, you know, I looked at their situation. They were very unsuccessful at the moment.

Things were not going well at all. And by the time I left there, it was. totally different direction. We had done incredibly well. I was first came on Atlantic 10 and, you know, on my way to a professional career. And fortunately, even after I left, they've been in the NCAA tournaments and have done a lot of, a lot of really good things in a small town and a small environment. And, you know, my four years in the Atlantic 10 conference were great years. Number one team in the country was in Atlantic 10. Every team pretty much, except for maybe two or three were ranked in the top 25.

I mean, we had an incredible run through my four years in college, and I look at it as highly successful, and I had a great time. It's funny. I was watching you guys play, and Evan Turner was a point guard in college, and now he's playing four in the NBA. It's amazing on how that's changed. Okay, so you have a remarkable career. As you pointed out, in Atlantic 10 then, you mentioned number one team.

that was UMass, obviously. St. Joe's was getting good. Xavier was tremendous. And we kind of go through Rhode Island. That was back when Rhode Island was stacked as well. I mean, you kind of go through the Atlanta 10. What do you remember about, you finish up your senior year, and then what, in terms of the NBA? Finish up my senior year. Went through the pre-draft camp. I did finish up in Chicago. did pretty well there and was projected to possibly get drafted in the second round and did not. And, you know, from that, actually, you know, it was, I guess a huge wake-up just like, okay, so what now? Do I still want to play? Of course, I did. And, you know, got different

opportunities in different places overseas. I went to, I went to China when it wasn't fashionable at the time. And actually, Darren was there as well. And we went, I went over there and played Yao Ming was actually playing with his Shanghai team. I think he was like 18 years old at the time, but he was still huge. But the guys that were high-level players, I guess, on that team, it was Juan G, who ended up with Dallas and Bacier who ended up with Denver. Wait, wait, wait, first you went to Italy, though, right? Didn't you go to Italy first?

Well, yeah, I did go to Italy for a, like, I was there to replace someone, and they asked me to stay, and I'm like, I don't want to be, you know, being young and not understanding the, I had some situations. My dream was to play in the NBA, so I wanted to go back, and I ended up leaving. I was there for, I think, a month. I was with the team in northern Italy near Trieste, Gorizia. Yeah, so you...

That went well, but after that I went to China. Okay, so you go to China. Now, here's a dude from D.C. We'll give you D.C. I mean, Silver Springs, people are like, come on. From D.C. Silver Spring, Merrill. By the way...

Silver Spring. Bray, Maryland. I'm messing with you. So, but to Olean and then, you know, all the pre-draft stuff, and then you go to Italy, what do you tell me about the first time you get to China, you get out, you're like in China. Were you in a big city or a small city? What was it? What was it like?

It was northeast in China, Jilene Province. I guess considered smaller city in China, but a small city in China may be a heavily populated place in America. So I got there and obviously, you know, some culture shop, same situation going my first trip over to Italy. But, you know, you talk about me going to St. Bonaventure, which was completely different from the environment I grew up in. And I think that that decision actually prepared me better for what would happen for me later on in life. Going to a place like China, being around and surrounded by a totally different culture, looking around, and not seeing anybody that was like me.

You know, my journey before that prepared me to, you know, be better, I guess, equipped to handle the situations that were to come. So, you know, being there, at first I'm just looking around like, all right, what am I going to be doing? What's going to go on to send a third? But once I settled in, it was just really about trying to ingrain myself and ingratiate myself with the things that were indicative of their culture and just understanding. first, you know what I mean? Because, you know, you can feel a certain way to stand the third, but I think it's important to try to understand first and then you make a decision versus, you know, coming in with, you know, being shut off and shut down and closed-minded.

So I ended up, things went really well. We won a championship my first year. And, I mean, things kind of took off from there. It went well. one of the my teammates, my Chinese teammates is now that I think the president of that organization is still in the CBA

and things are going well for him but he was a national team player at the time and we didn't speak the same language at all but we spoke the same language when they came to basketball and we were I mean we were like we're still cool to this day which is interesting favorite food that you ate there

in China? Yeah. Oh man that's a good question. question um favorite i don't know about favorite i do know that i tried some stuff that i was just really like might gross a lot of people out no let's go go it's okay they do they have different um delicacies um different things that that are indicative of the culture in different ways so I think that, and I was in Northeast China, but to keep

warm as far as what they say, they would sometimes drink a little bit of snake blood. Yeah. Yeah. And I tried it just to, you know, I know, my Asian my Asian

friends, Asian teammates and some of my friends, yeah, you try and try, okay, I'm going to try it. So I tried it and it was strange for me. It didn't taste weird, but, you know, it was still like, When I knew what it was, I'm like, oh, my God, I can't believe I just did that. But, you know, that was, I guess, the weirdest thing. That did all over there.

When I was in Moscow, there's a Ukrainian place. And I had had a Ukrainian delicacy called Salo, which is like pig fat. It's like bacon without the uncooked, without the beef, without the meat part to it. And it's like got garlic and salt, and then you dip it in gourchita, which is, you know, mustard. That's spicy mustard they love in Russia. And I tried that. and I tried cow brains. Cow brains.

Oh. Yeah. It was... The problem of the cow brains is not the taste of the cow brains. It's one, you know you're eating cow brains, and two, it looks like cow brains as well. Yeah, exactly. It's almost like, don't tell me what this is. Just let me taste it.

Tell me afterwards. Okay, so... No question. So you were there for a couple years, and then you made the decision to come back and play in the CBA. And, like, look, for, you know, this is a hard. call, right? Because I'm sure you could have gone to Italy then or gone to Spain and made a bunch of money, but you said

you wanted to play in the league. Was that why you came and played in Yakima for two seasons? Yes. Again, the idea was about chasing success, not money, and I've always had that mentality just in my professional career in general.

So I wanted to play at the highest level and wanted to prove something to myself. more than anything. Like, you know, you're capable of doing this, no matter what path you have to take and just trying to stay wrapped up in the journey,

understanding that, okay, this is a part of the journey, and it's going to be something that I know I learn from and grow from. So I made the decision, went back to, came back to the States, played in Yakima and won a championship the first year there, which was great. And, you know, that's an invaluable experience.

Again, I'm winning a CBA championship, and that was a big deal for me at the time. One of my teammates, Roger Bell, who went on to play many years in the NBA, and I talk about that to this day. You know, I may talk about that season. So, you know, those parts and pieces of the journey, again, just prepared me to be able to be flexible,

prepare me to be able to understand that continue to fight, continue to bounce back, and just be prepared for anything that's thrown my way in. you know it was it was a great situation for me great situation for me and it's something that I think I found it as another successful piece in that puzzle who is your coach in Yakima uh Paul Wolper was the head coach what what was your experience like because ultimately you did get a call up and you did play in the league but what was I've often told guys like there's a lot of people are like, well, I'd rather go to the minor leagues

and, you know, instead of staying in college, like that's a, and my experience, and you and I both played in the ABA, shortly and like, I played, I think was 2002, yeah, spring of 2002. Anyway, and I always felt like

when I was in the USBL, the ABA, the IBA, no one wants to be there, right? Like, there's something healthy to the competitiveness of everybody wanted to show out and make it to the league, but there's also something very, very unhealthy to a team which literally no one wants to be there. You know what I mean?

Right, right. What was your CBA experience like? It was exactly that. And it's interesting because the dynamics of that really ended up becoming like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The guys who acted like they didn't want to be there were acting like they had nothing to gain by being there. And I think that, you know, the guys that separated that dynamic. So they everybody, nobody wanted to be there. But certain people looked at it as I can gain something by being here.

Right. Others looked at it like, I have nothing to gain by being here. I shouldn't be here. I don't want to be here. So I think it's just a matter of how you approach it in that perspective. And that ended up becoming the situation with guys, certain guys got called up, called up and we're out of there because they knew I got something to gain by being here.

I can get better. I can grow. I can blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm going to show out because of that and I'm going to continue to be committed to my craft. While others were like, I don't need to be here, I don't want to be here, I'm a party and hang out and do this. And do this that and the third.

And some of those guys were the most talented guys. Right. And sometimes they just did not end up getting that opportunity. And then at the same time, you know, being, I think being comfortable with possibly not getting that opportunity, not getting called up and understanding again, no matter what, I still got something to gain and grow by being here. And, you know, I think the guys that gravitated more towards that mentality are the ones that ended up either getting their, you know, living their dream and getting a chance of playing the NBA or getting themselves to a different position or opportunity as far as their overseas career. you know and then some some others got some answers like well you know what maybe this isn't for me but you know at the end of the day there was something to gain and I think you know the people that gravitated toward their mentality were successful it was March of 2001 I believe and you got

a call up yeah what do you remember about it about about the actual call but by being told you're not just going to the NBA you're going to the wizards what do you remember about it I think I might let you in on something that I don't think many people know. It might be exclusive. And it's low-level exclusives because nobody cares. Yes. So when I got called up, I actually had happened to have just come back to D.C. Because we had a break in our season.

So I played a game. And I was with Kansas City with the ABA. They played a game. I left the game immediately. We had some time off. I went to go get on a plane and go back to D.C. And I'm waiting for my plane to be caught. I had ice on my knees, you know, just like after game, normal stuff.

And I took the ice with me to the airport because it was, you know, it was right after the game that I went to go catch my flight. And when I, when my flight was kind of called, I stood up and heard, just cracked, like my knees, one of my left knee was like hurt like him. So I get on the plane, like, was the world, my knee was hurting a little bit. I get on the plane, and my knee starts swelling up on the plane with the altitude. So I asked the stewardess with some ice, get a bunch of ice. She's icing, you know, I got ice on my knee on the plane.

It's dripping all over the place. I get off the plane, get picked up from the airport and get home. And my knee is hurting so bad. I didn't go upstairs in my house for two days. I slept downstairs because I, I, I didn't want to try to go up to staff, blah, blah, blah, blah. I didn't know what's going on. Well, while the second day is when my agent calls me saying,

hey, Washington is interested in signing you. I said, what? And so he tells me, you know, they're interested in, and they want to sign you. I was like, well, I can't walk right now. You know, my knee is killing me, blah, blah, blah. He says, so you want me to tell him no? I'm like, no, tell him yes. get up, go to GNC,

get anything I can. Croydon, anything I can. Just like, I need something to figure out what's going on, blah, blah, blah. I'll talk to the doctor later, yada, yada, yada. So, again, this is a part of the journey of living out a dream. So the next day is when I had to go meet with Rod Higgins, Michael Jordan, was there, and I had to go sign my deal. So I drive, again,

I'm at home, and this is my hometown team. This is a dream, bigger than a dream. So I get in my car, drive down to the Verizon Center is what it was. It was called at the time. And pull up, I mean, I leapt into the building, and then I straightened myself up as much as I possibly could walk in as if, you know, I'm fine, signed, went downstairs because we were having some light. They were having some light practice.

Some of the guys on the team I already knew. so, you know, I just said hello to everybody, kind of, you know, see what I could do on the court a little bit, didn't really have to do much. And I went straight to the trainer and told him, look, I bumped knees with somebody, something's going on, and he started treating me immediately. And if anybody see pictures of my first few games with the Wizards, I was wearing a knee sleeve, and I had never won one before, ever. So it was because of that situation.

I mean, a year, two years later, two, one, two, I think two, maybe three years later, maybe more than that. I ended up having to have a microfracture surgery on my left knee and blah, blah, blah, blah. But my knee was not great when I signed with them, but I was not going to let that deter that opportunity. I didn't care. I was willing to put the limb on the line for the opportunity to just live all my dream. And I was fortunate enough to get playing time. I had treatment, and I started feeling better. and, you know, it gave me an opportunity to play for my hometown team.

And, you know, you never know when those opportunities will come. I wish it would have come differently at a different moment or maybe a different point in my career when I was doing much better and feeling much better. But this is when it came, man, you know, you've got to make decisions sometimes. So that's one of the things I remember most. I got two more for you, and I know you're busy. Okay.

First is, like, look, basically you did live out my dream. Like, every one of us who played my league. No, it's not just play for, like, I did Summer League with the Lakers, but I didn't, I mean, that would have been incredible. I just wanted to play one day. Like, I just wanted one time to put on, you know, everybody, anybody who's ever been any level pro hooper has the NBA logo socks, right? But you actually want to have, like, all the NBA logo stuff.

Like, actually, and play, what's that like? to all that you've been through, you go up to Oli in New York, you go to Italy, you go to China, you're in the CBA, you finally get out there, what's it like to play in the league?

Oh, man, it was, I mean, it was, the feeling was invigorating. I mean, like, I remember my first game with Washington was at Boston. It wasn't.

Actually, your first game was at Cleveland. You played three minutes. But the first one you actually... Yeah, at Cleveland. Yeah, but the second one was at Boston. Like, you're in Boston Garden. The second one was at Boston.

Boston Garden. Absolutely. And I mean, the feeling of... The feeling that I remember most is putting on all of my stuff. Like putting on the socks that you talk about. Because, you know, what people, I think especially young people, they don't understand. Like, you can go buy some NBA socks now.

You can buy all the NBA gear and all the things that the pros actually wear. When we were coming up, if somebody had NBA socks, then they had to play in the NBA because they didn't give those out. They weren't like all over the place. If somebody had on a pair of NBA socks or some NBA shorts from practice or some game shorts, they probably played the league. Because even the guys in the league didn't get so much of an abundance of things that they were just giving it out to all of their friends.

some of their friends medbath and stuff. But I know for me, if I saw somebody with an NBA saucer, I'm like, oh, man. And I mean, I used to, I remember I used to add bag in his, he's like, man, I don't have that many of them. I'm like, what? You know, but, you know, so putting the uniform on, putting the gear on, looking at my name on the back of the jersey and all of those type of things, that's what I remember more than anything as far as that first game, that first opportunity.

I had done that training camp, like as far as pre-st century. season before, but not in an official game. I had played in preseason games when I was with Detroit for training camp and played, I was like first got off the bench in different situations and I played in those games, but playing in a real game and a regular season game was completely different and putting on all of the gear, the uniform, the warm up. I mean, I put on everything that they gave us that first time. I put everything on the shooting shirt underneath the warm up. I had everything on. And I was just so excited to have that opportunity. I'll never forget that feeling.

Now fast forward to now, and you've been discussed as far as head coaching jobs. You coached, obviously, in Russia, and you spend time now with the Portland Trailblazers. What is it going to take for you, you think, to get that right phone call, that right fit, to get a head coaching job? Well, I mean, I think more than anything, it'll take. someone willing to just take chance. You know, the reality is everybody has had their first, everyone. So, you know, a lot of times when you get the, you know, we rather, you know, have someone with experience and all those things.

I completely understand that. But at the end of the day, those things equal success or equal, equal guaranteed wins or guaranteed approval at the end of the day it's always taking a chance and there's always some form of a gamble and I think a lot of times people lean on more people that have

head coaching experience because they look at it as less of a gamble and you know I just think having an organization that is prepared to partner with some of the ideas and some of the philosophies that I have and feeling like, you know, this is a gamble worth taking. And at the end of the day, it's, you know,

going to have to figure things out as we go. And I think that I've always been, and like I said before, every step of my journey from playing all the way through, you know, working as a pro-personnel director of Oklahoma City before I started coaching, I've always had to figure things out as I've gone. And always have been fortunate enough to have that,

happen. And, you know, I don't think that this is any different. I'm sure that it will be tough once I get that opportunity. Everything always is. But I'll figure it out. And, you know, I know that, again, the journey not necessarily going to turn into wins, not necessarily going to turn into losses either. But being able to, to get, you know, stay wrapped up in that journey and stay wrapped up in and figuring things out and making the most of every opportunity, it's something that I've always done. So I just think that someone really willing to take that chance because it is going to be a gamble no matter what.

Hey man, listen, you've been more than gracious with your time. Obviously coming off an incredible season, a lot of emotion that was kind of put into it. But I appreciate you sharing with everybody your journey. And let's catch up soon. Talk some more ball, okay? Doug, I definitely appreciate it. And congratulations on all your success, man.

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox SportsRadio.com. And within the IHeartRadio app, search FSR to listen live. Man, I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. That was great. My thanks to David Vanderpool, and of course we'll continue to have more interesting people covering the NBA. We'll start to get in some more NBA draft stuff in the coming weeks

as we're about a little less than a month away from the NBA draft. I got great intel, great insight into some guys that you're seeing on draft boards being rated higher or lower than actual NBA guys think. And we'll have on some of my friends who like to evaluate said players. In the meantime, you can check on my daily radio show. That's 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 12 to 3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio or the IHeart Radio app. And we appreciate you listening to the All Ball podcast. Make sure you download, subscribe, and rate, tell a friend, tweet it out, send it to you. them on Facebook, whatever you want.

This is a great place. A great place to have it. Thanks for listen. I'm Doug Gottliep. This is All Ball. Okay, All Ball community. I'm about you make your holidays even happier. Get the Epson Eco Tank cartridge-free printer because you know it's not festive. Cartridge Connipions.

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