The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - KD not a lock to leave Warriors; Arizona's massive NCAA/FBI trial damage; Guest: George Washington HC Jamion Christian

Episode Date: May 3, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb explains why Kevin Durant isn't a lock to leave the Warriors, why Arizona and Sean Miller were the biggest losers from the NCAA/FBI trial, and is joined by new George Washington Head Coach Jamion Christian on getting settled into D.C., why he left Siena after only a year to take the job, his program building philosophy, and what he learned playing for legendary Mount St. Mary's coach Jim Phelan, Subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Tell a friend about it. We got a bunch of other all-balls if you want to go into your cue, right, your queue, your line, your lineup. You can check them out. There's a bunch of, the Dane Fife one was a good one. man there's just so many good ones like it Chris Beard was a good one there's just so many Miles Simon taking us through his national championship run was a good one we're going to get to Jamie and Christian he's the new head coach at George Washington

he was only a head coach at Sienna for a year and we'll talk to him about leaving after one year why George Washington and kind of a different point of view in a different part of the country that I didn't grow up in and I'm a fan of but I don't know enough about out all those Virginia schools and the history of the history of some of these different coaches. And he's coached with a bunch of them. So we'll get to Jamie and Christian in a moment.

I did want to point something out. I have been, I'd like to think the first in the media to say Kevin Rand's the best player in the NBA. And I'll admit that there have been people in the NBA two years ago are like, nah, still LeBron, still LeBron, still LeBron. And so while I may not have been right by some people. people's estimation then, I believe I'm right now, and I could make the argument I was right then just watching the NBA finals, regardless of which. You know what's fascinating about the NBA? We operate under this prevailing wisdom, and it might be true that Kevin Durant wants out,

and this will be the last year of this version of dominant Golden State Warriors. What if I told you it's more likely to be the last version of this year's Houston Rockets? Rockets are the best record last year, the West. And though they didn't get it this year, that was because of the injuries that they sustained, James Harden early in the year and other injuries like Clinton Capella later in the year. But if you look, you got Capella who, it does feel like he's topped out in terms of his offensive skill. Chris Paul is not getting younger. And while he's still very good, he's not dynamic like he used to be.

And look, James Hardin's great. and he has his strengths, he has his flaws, there's nothing. But you're not going to add any more dynamic players with those three salaries, especially with Chris Paul making close to 40 million, and you're well into the mid-40s with James Hardin. I could make the case we're just as likely to see the list of the last of the Houston Rockets at this level, then we are the Golden State Warriors. And my logic behind that is this.

Kevin Durant, why would he leave? Why would you leave when you won two championships, you might win a third in row? because he wasn't, and this is like an AAU expression that I hate, getting the love. Oh, it wasn't getting the love that he wanted. Wasn't getting to love. All right. So it wasn't getting to love.

Big deal. But you do understand when you're in the best, you feel like you're the best at your craft, and you've shown it on the game's biggest stage, and people still aren't giving you to love. Eh. But now he has the best of both worlds. Now he's playing on the best team,

and he's getting the attention and the rightful attention and respect that he deserves. And then you think about, everybody says they want their own team. Really? You want to go to the Knicks? Nobody likes their owner. And though I think everybody respects their front office

and their coaching staff, it's not like those guys have won anything anywhere. You're splitting kings. You have a winning hand in Golden State and read his quotes. He's actually having fun now. And getting the respect he deserved. I'm not so sure Kevin Durant.

This is why you got to wait till the end of the season to say where somebody's going. I'm not so sure that he's definitely leaving Oakland. I guess he's leaving Oakland regardless. He's going to be in San Francisco next year. Let me quickly touch you on the college basketball trial. It's important to understand, and many of you guys who are listening, your ball guys, you know, that there have always been people who have claimed they were getting paid or somebody was getting paid. Right.

Like every coach in the country at some point like, well, you know how they tell you. care of people. They take care of people. And I was told by some pretty good sources that Arizona was really, or is really, really, really confident that Shaw Miller will remain as their head coach. Really, really confident. And okay, I understand that what Book Richardson's saying is hearsay, and it's not something you would convict somebody on in the court of law. But in the court of public opinion, boy, I don't know. Right? Just they had DeAndre Aden.

Book Richardson says that he was paying DeAndre Aten 10 grand a month. They go through one year where they lose all the recruits. Now they have every, they got an unbelievable recruiting class. Like I want to believe that this is just hearsay and Book Richardson talking big because that's what dudes do. but the fact that we haven't had that Sean doesn't have to appear, I don't know, it just feels like status quo will remain. And yeah, well, Arizona kind of dodged it.

Everybody knew what happened, but we couldn't prove it to them. That's what it feels like the, how we will react to this news. I just, I don't know, it just doesn't feel like a strong look. On the other hand, I don't want to fire Sean Miller

for something that was in fact hearsay when he didn't get a chance to defend himself, but he clearly didn't want to defend himself. he clearly didn't want to defend himself and appear in court. So the more answers we supposedly have, the more questions arise. If I was the president of Arizona, if I was the athletic director of Arizona, I probably would have fired Sean Miller the second this, this part came out. I do understand that the ESPN report does not seem to be valid.

I mean, like, look, if you said, well, payments of $10,000, 10 of them, which there was no number given by Book Richardson, you know, maybe there you draw your conclusion. But ESPN said there was a recording that had him offering $100,000 for DeAndre Aden. And to this point, we have not heard any such reaction, any such recording. But when you hear in a system, last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action.

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

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You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. from the WMBA standout Kate Martin

and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke.

The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. at our level at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning.

It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. And so, you know, flippantly say, yeah, here's what's happening and here's how he's taking care of them and that's how we roll here. And then you hear some other names of other players. I think we know how they do business. And it stinks because I've always operated like I thought Sean Miller.

I still want to believe that Sean and Archie Miller, they do things the right way. They're hard-ass, hard-nosed coaches. They get after their guys and get after recruiting. And they get guys because they coach at good schools and they get in early and they have good relationships. But it makes it harder to believe when you hear their assistant coach saying he was paying their best player 10 grand a month. It doesn't feel like it's a true smoking gun. There's no receipt. There's no cash that fell out of an envelope. But it feels like most of us with the brain know what was going on. And we're frankly a little bit surprised that there is no response.

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Millions of Americans are getting back to work. Career builder calls it the great rehire. and we want to help you get the best jobs before everyone else. CareerBuilder gives you the competitive edge to get the job you want, at the salary you want, with the benefits you want. We even send job alerts, so your perfect job lands right in your inbox. Go to careerbuilder.com today or get left with whatever jobs are left. Find your next job fast at careerbuilder.com. Now, let's get to Jamie and Christian.

I'm interested to catch up with him. We know each other a little bit. He's 37 years old. Been a head coach at Mount St. Mary's. That's his own honor. He's at Sienna for just one year, just his last year. And now he's the new head coach at George Washington. Today, where you catch up with him, and I believe it's the day he's moving into his new house in the D.C. area.

Jamie, a lot of different places I want to go with this. But let's start with. Have you settled in yet? New job, new home. Like, you found your place to live. Do you know the way you want to go to work? Like, what's this like for you? Well, we're just starting to get settled in here today, moving into our home a little bit later tonight.

So we're excited about that. You know, I actually really embraced the first couple weeks of kind of being all over the place. I think that energy in the first six weeks of taking over new programs important, important to embrace it. So, you know, we've got our staff sleeping in offices, sleeping all over the place, but we're really hoping it and having a great time doing it, building our team, caroterie, the staff, and, you know, hit the recruiting term really hard. Okay, wait. So tonight is actually the night that you move into your house? Tonight is the night we're moving in. We won't have any, actually our furniture and stuff gets there on Friday.

So we'll be sleeping on air mattresses for tonight. But on Friday, everything gets there, and life will begin here in D.C. Okay, there's a lot of stuff I want to ask you about, again, about your career and about the new job and about your old jobs. But this stuff I'm fascinated about, because I've moved a bunch of times. Like when I was at ESPN, we lived in, I think, three different houses in the nine years we were up there. And then I moved to the West Coast and we lived in a different house both years renting and then we moved to the East Coast and then back to the West Coast. All right. So you, like, when you're interviewing for the George Washington job, at what point did you allow, did you allow yourself to think this is a possibility to start looking at real estate?

Well, I let my wife handle all that stuff with the real estate. She's unbelievable with it. You know, we're actually going to spend some time apart, so it's important for the area that we live in that she feels really comfortable. So we have a great team dynamic in that regard that we really bounce ideas off one another. But I really trust her to find the place and they do a great job with it. And she's been undefeated so far in that category. You know, I think it's really important in this business.

Like a lot of things can happen really fast. I think we all can understand that. They just have a great partner, and I have that with my wife, Alley. you know, we can really talk about a lot of things along the way. And, you know, this coaching search only took about six days, I want to say. I mean, it was very quick from the time they made contact with my agent to, you know, when we decided to be here. And so that communication we were able to have, you know, consistently with one another, really a lot of to get adjusted quickly. Okay.

So, but I guess that's the other question, though. Allie, you're interviewing it's six days, like you're like, all right, this is the possible to start looking, you know, She's, now she is Zillow, is she a realtor.com? We're not sponsored by anybody, but we could be. Like, what's the, how does she go about it? I think she actually uses a bunch of different ones. You know, I'm really fortunate to hear. Koki Adasi is my college teammate.

He's the key to your real estate needs here in the D.C., Maryland, Virginia area. So when we first, you know, when the job thing sort of opened up and it became more of the possibility, I called him first and just said what areas do you think we should. should look in, where should we look at. We didn't end up purchasing from him, but he gave us some great advice about areas and things that look into, and my wife, Ali, was able to lean on him as well. So this move was a little bit different than most because we had a close personal friend who knew the market here in the area better than anyone else.

Did you get any sticker shot? Like, you're in upstate New York. I mean, it's not cheap, but it's not D.C. Like, did you go like, wait, how much for what? Like? No, you know, being from down this area, we already had a very good idea. of what the real estate was going to be like, how much it was going to be. So we weren't surprised by that at all.

You know, my wife's very successful in her business and what she does as well. So, you know, everything was just about, let's find a great place, is close enough to campus, close enough to the guys, where we can really have a great experience with them, where we can really create this family environment. Have you walked by, like, the monument? Have you walked? Because I've, having been to G. Deb's campus, I know the proximity to everything. And, I mean, it's literally right in the heart of D.C., and it's really right in the heart of D.C.,

and it's really cool. It's an amazing, amazing city. Like, have you done that yet when you walk? I mean, it's spring in D.C. and cherry blossoms. Have you gotten a chance to get caught up in that at all? Doug, this place is amazing. You know, driving here every morning, you can take a different route.

You see something else that you didn't see the day before, maybe something that you didn't appreciate at the right level. And it's just amazing. You know, when you tour it and you walk around it and you have such a strong feel of, you know, where DW is. I mean, they've done a great job here on campus of making sure you feel safe and you're secure, but then you walk three blocks or four blocks,

and you see the Capitol building. You see the Lincoln Monument. It's one of the most unique setups that we have. We've got to do a great job telling our story. I know we'll do that as a staff, but it's just an unbelievable place to be in. There's always something to do. There's always a beautiful site to see,

and literally we call it it the most powerful city in the world, and the views and the location really showcase that. Okay, so how far is it from Quentin where you grew up? it's about two hours and 30 minutes from where I grew up. And we'll be expecting a lot of those people to come up here and hang out with us. And it's just an amazing place to be. And again, with traffic, sometimes we can stretch you about three hours. But you have the proximity here.

You know what time traffic is, so you have a chance to kind of jump it when you need to. Okay, so you play at the mount as a player. As we hear the sirens kind of in the background. There are some other parts to D.C. So what was your career like? Like you were really decorated player. I don't think, I think your senior year, you guys didn't lose a game, right? In high school, one state championship?

And you're, you know, and you come from an athletic family. Like, what was it like when you went to the mount? Because I've been by the mount but never been to the mount. You went there as a player. What was it like? Well, you know, like most of us in high school, right? Like, we have great high school careers. We're the best player on the team.

You know, you have great team. that you can build up. And, you know, the college journey is different because it's the first time that a lot of us are arriving at a place where there's a lot of other talented players where your discipline becomes maybe your most valued talent because everyone is talented and discipline is usually what separates you. I had a place with Jim Salon, a Hall of Fame head coach, over 800 wins.

That really attracted me to the mount. The Mount's a different location. We're about 25 minutes north of Frederick. Maryland, 45 minutes west of Baltimore. You know, so it's a different location, but it stands out on its own. I was really attracted there because I felt like I could really learn from one of the best. I mean, how many times you get a chance to play for a Hall of Fame? Or you plan for Eddie Sutton, you understand that as well.

Like, you know, you understand that difference it makes in your career and in your perspective of basketball on what they're able to teach you. I was really attracted to that. The problem was, I was a pretty good player as a freshman, had my best year as a sophomore, and then after that, I didn't improve much. So I recognized pretty early on within my senior year at Mount St. Mary that I was going to need to find something else to do. That being a pro at playing basketball wasn't going to be an option. And I had great assistant coaches, a guy named Kirk Sauny, who's a head coach at Howard and was an assistant in a couple other places.

And Milan Brown was there at the time. Those guys did an unbelievable job with me, even though I wasn't playing, of giving me true purpose on our team, allowing me to work with scouting reports, watch film, speak up in meetings. they didn't treat me as a guy that wasn't playing. They treated me as a guy who was a valued member of the team. And because they did that, I really feel like I got a great jump start on the coaching. Okay, so you finished what in, was it 03 or 04 you finished? Well, I finished in 04, but I might have been done in 03 because I didn't play much in that 03 to 04 season.

So you didn't, you didn't like, but Myelan was the coach, right? Right, your senior year? Yeah, Coach Brown was our head coach from 2003 to 2004. But it is interesting, though, that you being part of a, such a transition, right, from a Hall of Fame coach to a young assistant moving over. Like there is some, I'm sure there's some things that you can glean from that, some learn from that for, you know, your own, you know, rise to prominence, you know, from the Mount to Sienna to George Washington. What do you remember about the dynamics of an assistant becoming the head coach within a Hall of Fame coaches program? Probably one of the, that's an obvious amazing question because that's probably helped my coaching career more than anything.

We went from a coach fair when we had one of the oldest coaching staffs in the country. We had another assistant who was like early 70s. Coach Phelan was early 70s. When Milan came in, we were the youngest coaching staffs in the country. So we had a tremendous change from one to the other. You know, there's always this normal. We come into a program, and we didn't want a ton of games as a sophomore as a junior. There was just no more when a new guy comes in,

then none of the guys there can play. They can't help us. And Milan, when he came in, you know, he really brought in some really talented players, some heralded guys in the area that could really play. You know, a couple guys that will be Hall of Famers. But they're still freshmen. And you know how this thing kind of goes. You know, there's just things you learn through your course of playing

that when you're a junior or senior, you're just going to be better at. And so we would lose games or be in games that we could be more up. Just because our freshmen didn't have the experience, not because they weren't talented. Again, I think talent is one of the most overrated commodities because I think every team has talent. It's about having that discipline. and typically your discipline increases the more you play, the more you have an opportunity to do that. And so we had a bunch of seniors who played a ton early in our careers

that didn't really play much of seniors. And I felt like at the time it really hurt our team, because Brown had talked about this a ton. I feel like it really hurt our team because I felt like we could have played 10 to 15 minutes and kind of bridged the gaps from and kept us in games, and our really talented freshman could have helped us. And so what I've tried to do with every one of my stops, quite honestly,

is to really try to assess the players that are there. We've had success within the first year. I think we went plus 10, my first year at Mount St. Mary, they won 8, before we went 18. At CNN, we went plus 9. They won 9, 117. You know, so we've had some success there. But it's really because we just tried to evaluate the players that were there

and really giving them true value and true ownership, recognizing that the guys that are rising seniors for us, they're on expiration clock. So they want to get it done as badly as I do. remember that feeling that I had when Coach Brown took over. Yeah. So we've really just tried to unleash that. Instead of saying, hey, we're bringing in all new guys, bringing it my own guys, whatever that means.

Right. I've just tried to embrace them as our guys as our team, and we've had a lot of success with guys who maybe didn't have a lot of success in their careers, but really play well for us as seniors. Yeah, it's almost like a pound puppy, right? Like a pound puppy. Like they, if the coach, and sometimes a lot of this more is the coach gets fired or the coach is gone, like they feel like they don't have any support within the coach's office. Like if you wrap your arms around the guys that are left behind,

you'll get even more kind of love and adoration than you ever thought possible because, because they thought they were going to be, you know, they thought they were going to be, you know, just, you know, waiting for the, you know, the new guys to come in, to our guys coming in, right? Like, it's a lot like a pound puppy. Like, you'll never get the love you get, like you get the love from a pound puppy, as opposed to, you know, a newborn, pure bread, whatever. Sometimes they have a little bit of entitlement,

which is the same thing with a highly retouted player. who you had to tell them how great they were in order to get them. Right. You absolutely get it. And, you know, I think you being in locker rooms, you understand that dynamic. And when you're able to really embrace someone. And, you know, the other advantage you have is when you're taking over a new job, you know what worked and you know what didn't work.

You know, and you could really, you know, I'm like, I'm not trying to defend what happened the year before. I'm just trying to look at the situation with a clear head and a clear mind. And so I say, well, how can we be at our very best? I get the luxury of changing the system how it fits our team, you know, where sometimes if you're in the midst of it, you don't have the opportunity to do that. So there's major advantages to looking at what the guys can do and what they can be really successful at instead of always harping on what they can't do.

And I think when you're taking over a program that's struggled, people have embraced. People have talked a ton about what they can't do. But, man, we all know this, man. We're going to be really successful with things that we can do, and we just really try to a great job embracing that. I got a failing question. What was he like as a coach? Like, how did you guys play?

Oh, man, he's awesome. He's awesome. You know, I have so many great stories, but I think one of the best things is he just wanted you to play with freedom. He wanted you to play as a unit. You know, I think when you, hopefully when you watch our team's play, you see our guys take shots that they can make and they have a ton of confidence in it. He wanted you to share the ball.

But, you know, he was one of these guys that wanted to play really free and loose, and he didn't want to be micromanaging your shot attempts. And he wanted you to be aggressive. You know, if you could shoot from 30 feet, he wanted you to shoot from 30 feet. I mean, I got yelled many times from the sideline because I had a 30-fense. further that I didn't shoot. So, you know, he's a guy that once you play with that kind of freedom, and it's just the best. You know, I think every coach wants to give those guys that kind of freedom. At that point, he'd done it for 49 years. So maybe his level of freedom

was different than most. And, you know, I hope the one day given that much, but it was unbelievable playing for a guy who just gave you the freedom to go make plays. Win or lose, it was going to be on us, you know, and he was giving us that freedom. Give me, okay, give me your best failing story. You said I got so many stories. Give me your best one. Well, you know, about, you know, coaches was pretty old by the time. And so, you know, he's a tough Philly guy. You know, he's a Marine. Yeah.

You know, really tough guy. So about twice a year, he would get hit on the floor. I mean, you know how coaches are. Get run over. You're going up and down. Yeah. And coaches are in the middle of the floor. He just couldn't move the same way he could in the past.

So about twice a year, he would get hit. And then, you know, every time he would get hit, everyone in the gym would stop, right? I mean, he's old. And you're actually concerned. And, you know, you're actually concerned. And he would get up in his own way, be like, you know, I'm fine. Like, you guys hit, like, a bunch of girls. Or, you know, he'd give you, like, a really good comment.

Right. And you'd feel like, oh, you know what, he's tougher than all of us, you know. I got, how about this one? I got, I mean, I hate to play Topper story, but I'm going to top. Now, this isn't, I wasn't there, but this is the famous Eddie Sutton John Potter story, okay? Okay. So Eddie Sutton takes over at Oklahoma State. And I think it was his first year.

They had a dramatic turn around his first year. Second year they started out like 20 and O. They won the preseason NIT. He's a guy named John Potter, who Potter talented dude, like, I think like 6-8 white kid, really athletic, but smart ass. Anyway, so at some point in practice, coach says like, none of you know how to take a charge. Somebody run me over.

And there's a bunch of dudes in, you know, Byron Houston's on the team, big countries on the team, you know, Corey Williams on the team. And these are some built dudes. And they're like, no way, I ain't running the old man over. And at that time, you know, he's probably in his late 50s, but he's, you know, he's still toughest nails. And so John Potter's like, well, I'll run him over. So Potter gets the basketball and takes a couple dribbles and, I mean, he plants his feet and runs him over. Now, as everybody knows, Coach Sutton was a recovering alcoholic at that time.

And obviously, he had a relapse later in his career. But as a recovering alcoholic, he didn't smoke. a lot of alcoholics, they come addicted to something else. He had candy, lots of candy in his pocket. And so the story goes, Potter runs him over, and it's like a freaking pinata, right? Where there's just candy everywhere. And people think, like, hell, Potter just killed coach, right? Meanwhile, the managers are scurrying around to pick up the candy.

And, you know, the other guys are going to pick up coach. And, like, he's like, and I'm sure Phelan was like this, too, where he's, like, pushing guys. I'm all right. I'm fine. get out that and he goes now that's how you take a charge right so but the best part was this so the the managers give him all his candy he stuffs his pocket he goes over and he has a diet Pepsi takes a swig and he walks over and the old gallagra i but there's this locker there was this bathroom that only the coaches were allowed to use and it was just kind of off the court kind of tucked away

and he walks over like he's going to go to that bathroom and no one saw him like the rest of the day like he just disappeared like he might add internal bleeding from it so i know And then here's my other coach getting runover story. So I was pretty friendly with Charlie Miller and Brian Evans. They played at Indiana. And they claim that there was a tape that existed of Bob Knight getting run over practice. Kind of the same thing you're talking about, where coach forgot they were going transitioning from offense to defense, you know. And he's standing in midcourt and he's yelling at guys.

And all of a sudden shot goes up and they start running. He's, you know, he can't get out of the way and he gets run over. And the claim was that the tape was. in the original for the tape was in the possession of a manager, and whenever they'd have a bad day or they get kicked out of practice or, you know, they would get kicked out of practice. The guys would go over to the manager's house, and they'd watch it like on repeat, like,

let's watch the tape, let's watch the tape, let's watch the tape. Anyway, your sophomore year, you guys only won three games. Oh, yeah. And I'm not bringing up bad things. I just, you know, there's all, like, look, my freshman year in Notre Dame, I think we won nine games, and I'd never been a part of a, like,

You went undefeated your senior year in high school. You know, you're a great player, and you go to the mount, and they had, I don't, they'd only had a couple losing seasons during his tenure there. You're, you know, you're, you're junior, I know, your sophomore year, you win three games. What's that, what's that like? What do you remember? Like, what's that like to be a part of? Yeah, you know, I learned a ton that year.

Number one, I suppose I was the lead score on the team, so I recognize that I probably shouldn't be the leading score on any team. But, you know, I also, we've really, the story that year really began with how talented the roster we really had. Right. We had, you know, we have some guys, you know, one of the guys we had was Melvin Whitaker, who had an incident at Virginia with the top five player come out of high school. He was on our team that year. And so we'd really build our team around him who was super talented and we love him to

death. He's an amazing person. and we had three or four other talented guys probably at that same level. And what happened that year was those guys never played. They never made it to the start of the season. They, for whatever reason, they didn't make it there, whether it was for discipline or academics, we'd never had a chance to put our best guys on the floor.

And so therefore it pushed a bunch of players, including myself, into an opportunity that maybe we weren't talented enough for. And so what I learned from that, There's a bunch of things. One of the biggest things I learned from that is, you know, your very best players have to have the highest level of character and understanding for the best, the betterment of the organization. Now, these guys are talented,

and you're going to try to take talented guys, but we just didn't get those guys on the floor together for discipline. And that's why I'm so, you know, every coach talks about this one. That's why I've seen it. I've seen what it can do for a team. I've seen, you know, what happens. I know what happens inside that locker room when you don't have that level of discipline

for your very best guy. you've got to be able to coach your very best players. They've got to have that level of discipline that changes things that kind of please the locker room in itself. And if you have a guy who's a top player for you and he doesn't have that level of discipline, then you've got to really try to find a way to establish someone else that can do that.

And so I remember that about that year. You know, we actually had pretty good team camaraderie that year. Yeah. So we got along really well, but we just had a lot of guys getting in trouble for things that were not basketball related. Like our focus wasn't on basketball. And so a lot of things are happening.

We had a lot of academic issues that year. We had a lot of guys, again, with academic council. And it was just one of those years where it was like, you know, we still got a long grade on the basketball floor, but every day there was a level of distraction that was creative from someone within that locker room. Yeah. And so that, I mean, every coach fights against distraction, but there's no bigger distraction, distractions are within that locker room.

And we had that that year. And it's why we spend so much time really talking about doing the camaraderie. trying to address those kind of issues in our recruiting and doing a great job of building that kind of personal discipline because talent everyone has talent but that discipline is what separates you your first college coaching experiences at emory and henry which the little i know about it it's a tiny like old it's like one of the oldest schools in the country i think and definitely in the state of virginia and it's way out in like what southwestern virginia what was that like yes yeah it's uh it's like an hour and 20 minutes past

Roanoke, Virginia. It's in that little corner between, you know, we're right, almost in West Virginia, almost in Tennessee, almost in North Carolina. So it's in a beautiful part of Appalachian Mountains. But I work for a guy named Bob Johnson there, and Coach Johnson is one of these legendary guys. The ODAT coach of the Year Ward is named after him. We've had great coaches there. Nathan Davis, who's at Bucknell.

Sure. Jimmy Allen, who's a head coach at Army. John Kaufman, who's a head coach at IPFW. Mike Young, who's now the head coach at Virginia Tech. And my brother, Jarel Christian, is the head coach for the Washington Go-Go, with the G-League team here in D.C., and obviously, myself, here at GW. We all work there, almost in succession, which is really unique. But it speaks about his leadership style.

You know, there, he was an unbelievable leader. He was an Army Ranger. So he's a guy that really understood leadership, and he really taught us well. You know, I mean, can you imagine? I'm coming in at 21 years old. I come into his office and this guy's been coaching for 25 plus years and he's going to teach me how to be a basketball coach. He's going to teach me how to recruit and teach me how to manage our team. I feel like a lot of times now people come into the business and we just kind of throw them to the walls and they have to figure it all out.

I didn't have that. None of us, those guys I listed, none of us had that. We had a head coach who was personally invested in us learning how to teach the game and learning how they evaluate. And he would spend countless number of hours with us every day teaching us the values of, of what you needed to do. And he's just an unbelievable person, unbelievable teacher. The story of him really lives on in all of us.

Because when I watch, you know, I watched Walsford play last year in the NCAA tournament. I saw stuff we did at Emory and Henry and I watched Nathan at Bucknell. We watched stuff we did at Emery and Henry and Henry. And we have this camaraderie amongst ourselves of this family where we can really talk and communicate about some things

because we all have the same foundation. While there, we played one of the fastest styles in college basketball. You would love this with your ability to pass and see the floor. But we, you know, when you react to 105 points a game, we shot a ton of threes, and we were kind of on this, you know, Grimell at the time was doing it, and we were the only

other team in the country doing it. But we just took a whole different style and a whole different approach and really created a really strong program there for you were playing a different style. Okay, so then you go to Bucknell. It was with you were Flannery at Bucknell, weren't you? Absolutely. What was he like?

Well, Flan, he's amazing. He's one of a kind. One of the most intense people I've ever been around, understand this system better than any. But he was a guy, he was a business guy when he graduated from Bucknell. He went right in the business. So the way he ran our office was unbelievable. I was just,

I was manager of basketball operations. And I, you know, therefore, I was basically like his right-hand man. When he went to meetings, when he organized our program, when he went to fundraising events, you know, all that stuff, I had an opportunity. The way he used me has helped me so much because I learned with him how to run

a program. Right? I mean, how many how many guys come through, they do other recruiting and they know how to run a program. They don't know how to manage his staff, going to have the manager. They're fundraising. Well, I was right there with him, you know, at the peak of Bucknell when it was really, really, really good. And I got a chance to be there with him every single day. And he would spend time with me and teach me, and I would get a chance to watch him.

And it's kind of like being like a protege beside him on his side. And so I just learned so much about how to run a program. I learned so much about, you know, how to operate on campus. He was a Bucknell graduate. it, so he was really able to utilize the research we had on campus and the people we had on campus. Like what? Like what?

So, you know, like if players needed internships, right? I mean, sometimes if you're coming to a new place, like one of the things I have to do here at UW, I have to really connect with our alums. So when our guys need internships to different areas, I'm able to help them navigate that. But Coach Flan was there. He'd been there for a long time and he played there so he could really connect them, you know, with internship opportunities that they needed. If, you know, if someone was having an issue,

on campus that they maybe need to help for. He could connect him to that person right away because he was a, because he played there and he was an alum, he cared so much about the place and he cared so much about the guy that he really coached it differently. Then a lot of times when they show up, sometimes people treat it like a job. He didn't treat it like it was his job. He treated like it was his life. What was?

That was great to see. So then you go to William and Mary with Tony Shaver. What was he like? Man, Shaver's the best. I mean, he's a guy that reinvented himself. he's at Hampton, Sydney, and they're playing up-tempo, and Division III, they're playing up-tempo, and they're trapping and pressing, they're playing a certain way, and then he goes to William and Mary, and the first couple years he tries to do that, and it doesn't get the results that he wants, and therefore he changes up.

He goes to a two-guard style of play, which is like a Princeton, Princeton, Michigan kind of hybrid, and really reinvent himself. Goes to playing half-court man-to-man-man, and I've always admired him, because I think it's really hard for guys to reinvent themselves, and he was able to do that. And because he did that, he was able to create a level of consistency at William and Mary that no one had done before. I mean, really his time there is historic because he was able to create a level of consistency. Again, no one had been able to do that before. They'd had some rises, but they had a lot more faults.

He was just great. He was really consistent with it. Recrued the right kind of guys, do what he was supposed to do. You know, so he, I learned a lot like, what I learned at William and Mary, I'm going to use a lot here at GW. Okay. But the academic, with the academic stuff of GW, it's the academic profile, what we did. need to do and how to really utilize that to the best of our ability. So then you go work for Shaka, and you went to work for Shaka after the Final Four, right?

So now expectations are to the moon, right? And people forget, what's interesting about after the Final Four, like, that probably wasn't even his best team. That team just snuck into the NCAA tournament. He actually had better teams, but, you know, we so react to what you do in the NCAA tournament. What was that like to be a part of, right? because you have now Shaka's incredible meteoric rise.

You got the expectations come off of Final Four. You got still in Virginia, but a different area and a completely different beast and a different type of student athlete at VCU. What was that like? Well, you know, coaches unbelievable. I always say working at VCU is getting a Ph.D. And leadership and coaching. It was an amazing journey.

You know, you come there, and I think most people are afraid. Both are, like, afraid of the expectation. You know, I always say expectations are the enemy, so I always kind of push expectations to the side. I think what we all have to do is we have to do the very best job with the information that we have with the people that we have around us, and we have to fall in love with that process. You know, I think a lot of people might have come in that situation and thought about the expectation, right? We're coming off there. They're coming up to Final Four.

I'm trying to prove my worth here with, you know, Will Wade's on staff there. Mike Rhodes on staff there. Mike Marell's on staff there. I mean, you know, Mike Jones just left to be the head coach at Rafford. I mean, you're stepping in there, and you've got to prove your worth. And I just felt like the best way for me to prove my work was to do a great job every single day and barely locked into that process to be as connected with the players as we could and just to help them improve it.

That team that I came into lost four stars from the Final Four team. We had Troy Daniels who hadn't played very much up to that point in his career. We had Trayvon Graham coming into the freshman, Briante Weber coming in as a freshman, Javonte Redick hadn't played much. That group didn't have a lot coming back. All we have was Brad Burgess. And so we just had such a sense of purpose. for making sure that we're going to be the very best we could be,

and we really were determined to do that. It was different in the sense of the players there, and I noticed this at Bucknell, but I didn't really recognize it strongly enough until I got to VCU. When you come to a program that has great tradition, the players want to rise to that standard of that tradition. And I don't think that's what people don't understand that. Like, when you're at a program that doesn't have tradition,

people don't understand how to rise to that standard where that tradition is. I'm sure you saw that when you were at Notre Dame and Oklahoma State. but at DCU and at GW and Mount St. Mary's and Bucknell, there's a tradition that people are rising to that standard all the time. No, I mean, listen, like the Kansas guys, even this last year, like I've been around Kansas program probably the last six, seven years, doing some, they have like an old man, old man, like fantasy camp, right? But you talked to their players, and their whole thing was like,

we don't want to be the team that loses the streak, you know? And we just don't, like it'd be embarrassed, like we don't want to be, because, I mean, I can tell you, like Oklahoma State, obviously you struggled the last couple years, but there's a certain kind of arrogance with former players like look we we weren't always great but we were always good and if you want to be in the club you know you want to be in the cool former player club you got to be good and you got to play the right way and I totally get that with VCU that's how they've been able to sustain through all these different coaches right you name the coach there's a standard that's set and there's just a we don't um I do wonder the last night a blown call changed a game this morning the internet lost its mind highlights are trending a opinions are flying and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. with Richmond, I obviously became aware of it around that time. For people who don't know, like, what is, what is that game like? Well, I got it from a couple different perspectives because I grew up 20 minutes outside of Richmond, right?

So, you know, growing up in the 90s, Richmond basketball was amazing, right? You looked at Richmond. It might have been to CA at that time. CA is one of the best leagues. You know, you grew up in that area of Virginia, you're looking at ACC basketball, you're looking at CA basketball. And at the time, if she was playing in a league,

they're playing against a bunch of teams that were kind of on the outskirts that you didn't really have great familiarity with. So Richmond was kind of a team. You know, you're growing up, you're watching Richmond, you're saying, wow, like, they're really good. You know, they had got like Johnny Dawley. They had you out like Johnny Newman. They had really good teams.

They were winning games in the NBA tournament. And Richmond was, and VCU was kind of school in the city and the part of the city that you didn't go to that you never really knew where it was. You know, you're driving a city. you could be, the only place you knew was VCU Medical Center. So what's happened, it's been amazing to watch as a person who's group in that area. You know, VCU making that rise, starting really with Jeff Capel, and that crew there, and they started being really consistent there, and they started getting great leadership

with Noritig and Mike Ellis and guys like that coming in there. They're having great leadership. They started consistently getting better, and then what happens is, you know, you go Jeff Cable, you have Anthony Grant, you go Shaka Smart, they hit hard, they hit great on three straight hires that continue to elevate the program in a secession. And so now you've got Richmond, who's traditionally been very, very good, and you've got VCU's kind of like the upstart. And VCU has the advantage in the sense of they're like the newest program

and they're rebranding themselves. All right. And you think about that, and you're hitting that, you're hitting the Internet stuff, the YouTube stuff. Well, VCU got good right when all that stuff hits, the social media stuff hits. So that opportunity to rebrand itself with shock of the world and how they're able to do that in Maynor hitting the shot versus Duke,

it just all kind of comes to a head, boom, and now the rivalry is bigger than it's ever been, because both programs, one's been consistently really good in that area for a long time, and the other is kind of this upstart that's really coming at you in a lot of different ways. It's a new age field. So getting ready for that game, and it's an incredible week, because, number one, Richmond's very good, and if you're on the other side, you know, Vichu's very good.

They play two different styles, one's uptemper. one's really slow, but it's incredible week because you have a lot of respect for the opponent across from you, but you also know you're going to have to be at your very best, you have to have your emotions in the right place. And what's crazy about your year, like, again, I say you come out to Final Four year, and people think that's a better year. Your year of VC, you actually won 29 games, which was at the time the most in school history, but it feels like a letdown because you didn't get to a final four. Hey, Singles, do you feel like a tourist in your own town? Too busy to enjoy all. your city has to offer? Events and Adventures organizes up to 30 unique get-togethers around town

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And number one, if you're doing it right, you're putting everything you can into your team. Every ounce of energy you have, every ounce of emotion. You're going into that last game no matter who you're playing, and you're preparing to win. Emotionally, you're there to win. And so what it ends, it's like it's one of the hardest things to recover from. And so that happens, and then you get an opportunity. You get a call.

And that athletic director usually wants you to make a decision almost right away. And you're just not an emotional place to make that kind of large life decision. Mount St. Mary's my alma mater. I knew it well. You know, I remember the president at the time, he says, you know, like I basically had to take essentially like a pay cut. You know, he wanted me to take a pay cut at the beginning. And he says, well, you know, to be a head coach, sometimes you have to make this kind of sacrifice. And my advice was, well, I'm my assistant at VCU.

I'm probably going to get both at some point here pretty soon. You know, and so, you know, you make that move there, and you're sitting and you're saying, man, like, you know, now we're in the NEC, we've got to rebuild this thing. When you know you're at a place like BFU and coaches guys move and they take over great jobs. And so, you know, going through that, my athletic director there still now, Lynn Phelan Robinson, is actually coach Phelan's daughter, was really a big difference maker for me because I was just so comfortable with her. I could tell it had been a tough year, and I could tell she had everything she wanted to get that program right back to where you need to be at. And so I had a chance to sit down with her, her passion, and Coach Valens' passion, it took me over to Coach's house, you know how that is if you sit in front of Coach Sutton, you know, you took me over there, and once I sat in front of them, it was a no-brainer.

And a no-brainer trying to get our program back to the top and to put everything we had into it. And I was really fortunate to get six great years there with amazing people, with amazing leadership that really put everything into it. Okay, so I know you made the tournament twice, but I feel like your fifth year was the year, because you won the league and you made the NCAA term, right? Like I get, it's still cool to make the tournament to win your conference tournament still get in, but to win your league to win the tournament, considering the tough time you went through when you're a player,

trying to get it back to where it was before you even got there at the Mount, right? And I know I don't Malta had it going as well. What do you remember about the 16-17 season at the Mount? Oh, you know, for coach, that's a big believer in building, and scaffolding. It was the most fun year I've had because that fifth year, you know,

I've heard good players and good teams the first two years. Those are guys that we recruited an opportunity to really build around. You know, it's like seeing that vision when you watch these guys play 15, 16, or AAU,

and then watch you all play out on the floor. And so what I remember most is just how determined the guys were. Their determination was unbelievable. No matter who were playing, I mean, everyone's confidence. But they had to, a great level of determination through the course of the game

and just turn the game one way or the other. You know, we have guys like Elijah Long who's now at Texas, Miles Wilson, defensive to Miami. You know, we had, you know, we had Maldosal Sala, Center for us and the end up to Kansas State. The guys are really talented players, and Junior Robinson and Chris Freeland on that team,

and those guys didn't be in player to your defensively as seniors. So we had a talented group of guys, but the guy sacrificed for one another. And they did so all for the sake of winning. You know, it's run in a few times that you're with a group, and you can tell that everyone has the same focus.

Usually there's one or two guys, usually guys that you need to count on, their focus isn't the same. Everyone there had to focus. You know, we wanted to be the regular season champ. We wanted to complete the thing, get to the N-Tay-Talm, and everyone had that focus. And so watching them become those things. And I remember, you know, Chris Ray, who was an unbelievable player for us, the year before he came in my office, and he talked to me about,

he said, coach, I think I'm going to transfer. I think I'm going to go home, start working in a friend. factory. And so people don't understand from the stories on the story. And I, you know, he's like, you know, this year we just struggled. We didn't get right over the hump. And we were right there, you know, game, you know, you lose a game, close game in March that happens. But Chris Ray, you know, over two days, we talked about it. I didn't talk them into staying in Mount marriage. I really talked about what best for his life, you know, having this degree and finishing this thing. I'm like, people forget some of these guys are going and done. They're

going to the NBA. Some of them, very few. Most of these players are going to life. and so the degree that they're going to get becomes very important. The connection they're going to have comes very important. And so our conversation wasn't really about basketball. It was about what was best for Chris Ray in his life. You know, it's interesting to interrupt. It's interesting you point that out. And when you say life, like, and you said connections, that's the big thing.

Now, look, I transferred and I had to transfer and leave Notre Dame after my freshman year. And the reason I went there really was because of connections, the idea of playing for McLeod and the Big East and all that Notre Dame has to offer. but I think one of the things that gets lost in our transfer culture and now you got guys transferring twice and at some point we're going to have three-time transfers as well, right? Is that you don't, you don't like have a home. You know, you just don't. And like grad transfers, a lot of these guys.

And look, you're going on, you're giving yourself, I mean, if you have a chance to play at North Carolina or at Kansas or at, you know, the kid Cremo at Villanova coming off of the national championship, like, who among us wouldn't want to see like, man, am I good enough at that? at that level. On the other hand, there is something, too.

If you leave, you're not really a part of Villanova's culture if you've been there for six, seven months. And you're, you know, if you left Albany, they're like, hey, F you, dude, you just, you just left us for your senior year when you were going to be the guy. We built the whole thing around you. And so, yeah, I mean, like, the only thing you have left at the end of the day is all those experiences and all those connections and all those people that you went to school with. and I do think that it's a hard thing to communicate with anybody other than the kid

and kids sometimes are too young to understand like when you need a job, the people you're going to call on to help you get a real life job are the people who you have relationships with from college, right? Right. And I don't think they would realize that until much later. And I think that's the hard part is there won't be enough research done on this, you know, for years to come until people really see was there a benefit or was or not. because, you know, we all have time to play in this space. And, you know, I lived it, you know, with Chris, when he came back,

the way our campus embraced him, the way he was able to, it wasn't really about our team, the way he was able to embrace it. And there's this moment where after the game, I told him, I said, I think if you take the leadership quality that I believe in, this team will have a championship next year. But I think you've got to make that adjustment. You've got to grow into that role. And there's a moment where, you know, you've been there,

You're running on the floor. Everyone's there. And I find him. And I told him this the year before. I said, I'm going to find you in the huddle in the skirmish. And I'm going to hug you like I've never hugged anyone before. And when I found him after that game and we had that embrace, you know, and he was in tears and I was in tears because you love these guys.

You know, that, to me, everything is worth that moment. And I think he would say the same thing. And he wouldn't have had that had he gone somewhere else. even if they would have won it. Because what makes that moment is all the tough stuff that came before it, not the actual winning of the game. It's the journey. It's the struggle.

It's the embrace. It's the love that's created through the tough stuff. What was the decision like to leave and go to Sienna? Well, it was tough. It was a tough decision. But you might have been probably time. You know, I mean, six years at the Mount and putting everything into it. I just always love Sienna.

I loved, you know, those teams they had there. They've been so good. I always felt like it could be one of the best mid-major schools in the country. You know, they just had a great tradition there. And, you know, from a Capri had three straight years there where they were dominant and they've been coaches before that that had a ton of success. You know, they have one of the best arenas in the area and one of the best in that league. I just felt like you could win there.

And I felt like you need to be able to prove that you can win there. You know, history's shown that you can prove you can win there, you know, think good things are going to happen. And, you know, I do believe. I believe it's one of the best mid-major jobs in the country. I think there's things there that no one in that league can touch. And, you know, when they have the right person sitting in that chair, they win. And they win big.

And they're people, they're supported. I don't think people understand the people in the capital region were so amazing to our family, so amazing to our team. I mean, they really fueled our team. You know, we lost the top seven guys on our roster last year from the scoring standpoint. And they supported our team. They gave our team love. They were appreciative of our team.

It was unbelievable. And that turnaround, they were able to have. this year is in combination to the guys in that locker room, but there's a lot to do with that environment that's there. And those people are really special. And you don't realize until you go there and you coach there or you play there what an unbelievable fan base it is and how much you love our team. But when you do, you really appreciate it. No, and they might even love you too much, right? Like the old thing is like they got old guys from the town, from the capital district that come in and they watch practice and they go back to the coffee shop and they chop it up. Okay.

So, I mean, like, look, the question is, like, you're going to leave after one year? Like, I get, you come back, and it's D.C., it's George Washington. It's Red Arbach Court. It's, did I mention, you know, it's an area where you close to, close enough to where you grew up, right? You're more familiar. It's where you've coached. On the other hand, after one year, like, here you are, you know, preaching, hey, we're going to build it. And you built it at the Mount.

What is that like to look people in the house? and say, yeah, I'm going to bail after one year. It's one of the hardest things you have to do. You know, because I believe all those things. I love those guys in that locker room. I believe all those things. I believe, you know, I believe, you know, I believe, you know, I've just always wanted to be at GW.

I've always wanted to be the head coach here. You know, how many times in your, in my lifetime, am I going to get to coach at a place at the number five in the country at some point? You know, I mean, it's, I mean, how many times? You know, you don't necessarily get that opportunity. When you look at the history here, when it's really good, it's one of the best jobs in the country. It's in one of the best recruiting areas in the country. I think all of us want an opportunity to be a team that's in the suite 16 annually.

You want to have the opportunity to be a team that's competing for those final fours every year. That's a lofty goal. That's a lofty thing that you're looking at. But at GW, you can accomplish all those things, and you can do it consistently if you do it right. if you embrace what we have here, not just our location, but use that as a big part of it. You know, one of the top educations in the country, embracing that. We're in a multiple-bid league now, so that gives us an opportunity. You know, when you're at a one-bid league, you can have a great year and lose,

and you have no opportunity to go there. And so when you look at it just from a basketball standpoint, I think it makes a ton of sense. I felt like the year at Tienna, you know, we'll pick last, we finish seconds. We have an amazing player in Jalen Pickett and Sloan C. Morris freshman come in. Elijah Burns transfers in, Don Carey's transferred in. When you look at Sienna from today, it's better, much better, than it was when we came in. I felt like we did our job there. Now, I don't think we got to the level that I believe we could because time didn't allow for that.

But I think we did our job there, and I think we turned it around pretty quickly. And we did that with a combination of a lot of things. So it was tough because I felt like we were really working that direction. But I just love GW. You know, Mike Jarvis was a guy I watched a ton growing up. You know, we didn't have many stations on TV growing up. But Home Team Sports was one of them. And Mike Jarvis was a guy that I really admired.

A lot of the things that you're the coach now are things that I watch him do here. You know, it's not just about chasing a challenge, but it's about finding the right place where you feel like your values and you're more really fit. Because I think when you find that place, you can really achieve something special. And I believe we're going to do that here at GW. you. If 37-year-old Jamie and Christian could tell 29-year-old first-time head coach Jamie and Christian, one piece of advice, what would it be? Ooh, it would be to be the man that your son will be proud of.

How challenging is that to do? It's one of the most challenging things ever, because every decision that I make every day can affect him. I mean, you look at the stuff that's happening in our sport right now. You know, you've got to make a moral decision in this business. And my moral decision starts with him, starts with my family. And, you know, just trying to be the person that when he's 18, 19, and going to college, and they say, oh, my dad is, my dad is this, you know, that people say, wow, man, what a great person he is.

You know, he's done a lot in our community. He's done a lot. Instead of like, oh, wow, that's your father. You know, I don't ever want him to be ashamed of who his father is. And I'll never be ashamed to who he is. You know, it's interesting because, you know, it is one of those things where if you say, like, well, I'm a college basketball coach. Like, really?

Like, there's the, for whatever reason, there's like a negative connotation because of some of these stories. On the other hand, when we look at it, there's 350 some odd Division 1 programs. I forget about Division 2, Division 3, you know, how many of them are not being in. How much of this does go on? Like, you've been in different levels of college basketball, obviously not at VCU, but not recruiting against, but not recruiting against the basketball. highest level. From your experience, how much of it goes on? Yeah, I think it's going on. I don't think it's as much as it looks right now. I mean, I think what we've learned from the Varsie

Blue scandal, those that have excess resource are going to do everything they can to try to create an advantage for their families and for themselves. So I think it goes on in every walk of life. I feel like, again, I think it's one of the harder things because the NCAA oversees a certain segment of people, but the majority of the people that are involved in our business are not legislated by them. And so there's a stuff outside that window that's very tough. So I think obviously it goes on.

I think we've got to do a better job as an organization and as people and as coaches of being morally correct and understanding what's good and what's bad. We've gotten a little bit too far one direction on winning being the only thing, or paying the players or, you know, all these things, when we all know how much more you make when you graduate from college, instead of making that the focal point, the educational point,

we've decided to make it more about money. And so I think when you make things more about money, decisions are made based on money, and you can see that in every regard with the things that are going on. Hopefully, our FDA will do something about it and change it. But people would say, well, Jamie and now, you left one job for another job, you know, you know, why are you different?

What you're saying, why is what you're saying different than anybody else when you're chasing what would be a bigger check? Yeah, absolutely. I would say it's different in the regard that I'm hired. That I've gone through this collegiate process where I've learned the lesson and now I'm an at-risk employee. I think there's a danger when we make our college athletes employees. I think that dangerous that you can then fire them. I think that's dangerous. Like, I don't like the way the transfer rule is set up now

because I think there should be a window where guys can come and come back. I think what happens now without a window, players can hang out on this wire for as long as they need to. I think it's going to hurt the players. You know, if there's a two-week window or a three-week window there, that's going to allow them the opportunity to come back instead of saying, oh, I have to leave.

I don't have a place to go. So, you know, we're like overreacting some, and the market will correct itself, and we'll get a really good plan together. But right now, we're just swinging from one direction to the other. And I think that's challenging. Last thing. Best coach you've gone against that no one mentions as a great coach that you've gone against. Well, I mean, I'll give you the first is Tubby Smith. No one acts like Tubby Smith.

is he's one of the best coaches in the game today. You look at what's been going on in college basketball. Tubby Smith doesn't have any kind of smears on his resume. One of the best I've ever gone against. You know, when you're saying on that sideline, you're going against someone, you get a strong extent to how good a coach he is. Tubby Smith, hands down, the best guy I've gone against. I'm always disrespected constantly when people don't talk about what a great coach he is.

I just feel like it's not right because he's done an unbelievable job at many different places. he's taken on different challenges. He's always won, and he's always won the right way. I'm a big, I just think Tubby Smith, one of the most underrated, one of the most underappreciated at coaches, a guy that I really look up to, and I think he's just, I think he's as good as they come. All right, man, well, listen, I wish you nothing but success

as your family unpackes in the new home. Nothing worse than the first couple weeks, and you don't have your furniture and your cable, your satellite's not set up. I hope you have internet. I guess now I guess you can use your phone if you don't have internet. That's just the worst, the worst part about moving. but you are in D.C. in the spring.

Doesn't get any better. Well, I guess fall and you're winning, or winner in your winning might be better, but that's a very close second. Thanks so much for this much of your time, and look forward to talking to the future. I'm so appreciative. Thanks so much.

All right. That's it for All Ball. Make sure you listen to the Doug Gottliefe show. Weekdays, 3-6 Eastern, 12-3 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio. We're also on SiriusXM. I think it's 203 and 217. It's whatever channel Dan Patrick's on.

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