The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - Kyrie/Celtics postmortem; Lakers' Ty Lue mess; Rockets/Warriors, minus KD; Guest: BYU Asst. Chris Burgess

Episode Date: May 10, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb gives his post -mortem analysis of the Celtics after their disappointing playoff elimination, why the Lakers dysfunctional front office blew it with Ty Lue, and why the Rockets' analytics aren't as effective in the playoffs, Doug's guest this week is BYU Asst. Chris Burgess on moving up the coaching ladder, playing for both Coach K and Rick Majerus, and his decade long international pro career. Subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you're. know is somebody coming after me listen to kingdom of fraud on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts wife is full of hurdles so how do you keep going on hurdle with emily abody we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes coaches

and olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward at our level at this scale being able to fail in front of the entire world like i can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an

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For surprisingly great rates, like a good vecino, State Farm is there. I had a friend get me a magnet that says, it's not hoarding if it's cool stuff. And I hold that to be true. Yeah, Marie Kondo says differently. Everything brings me joy, so sorry, but. Yeah, but that's what everyone says. Everyone says everything brings them joy. That's her whole thing.

Okay, yeah, but when I stare at that limited edition box of cheese, it's in the corner of my room, that brings me joy. Or the, or the Pokemon Oreos that I keep, that brings me joy. That reminds me of my youth. Wasn't that long ago. Listen to the MyCultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, Singles, do you feel like a tourist in your own town? Too busy to enjoy all your city? has to offer. Events and Adventures organizes up to 30 unique get-togethers around town each and every month.

We do all the work, so you have all the fun. Get started by visiting events and adventures.com today. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Godlebe, and this is All Ball, All Basketball, all the time. What I thought I would do with this week's podcast is continue our discussion with some of the most colorful coaches in the sport. And, you know, I jostle between the idea of a pro coach or a pro player. I got one coming up next week. And a college player. So what I thought I would do was reach out to a guy who was a pro for over a decade, was one of the most decorated high school players in

Southern California history. He began his career at Duke, played for a national championship, transferred to Utah. And now is an assistant coach newly named at BYU. His name's Chris Burgess, and he'll be joining me a little bit later on in the pod. I want to promote a couple things. One, please download, subscribe, rate. If you haven't done any of those three things, I don't know how you got to this podcast, but that I'm told helps us out.

Whatever, you guys seem to like and eat up these pods. We've got some really good ones upcoming. I got a bunch of people reaching out because everybody in Hoops seems to be listening to them. So thank you so much. Download subscribe rate, tell a friend, forward it on to them, put it in their cue. Try and listen to the Doug Gottlieb show, which is daily, three to six Eastern Time, 12 to three Pacific.

it's available on Fox Sports Radio, any of our affiliates as well. And it's a growing show. We've been doing it for a long time. It does not just deal with basketball, although sometimes this time of year it feels like it might. So that's an important kind of distinction, if you will. And I don't know if I'm supposed to tell you this, but you can also listen to it on Sirius Channel 217, XM Channel 203.

So plus all of our Fox Sports Radio affiliates. plus our Iheart radio app. You can listen to us just about everywhere. But anyway, thanks so much for putting me in your queue. Chris Burgess upcoming. I'll give you a couple thoughts on a couple different series in the NBA. I want to start with Kyrie Irving, who you ever do this as a parent where the whole time you're growing up, you're like, man, when I get to be a dad, I'm going to do things differently.

And I do things differently than my father. I'm much more positive about my son. I'm much more of a hugger. much more of a lover. I try and focus on process as opposed to result. But I will tell you that in coaching my son and frankly in dealing with my daughters, oftentimes my default is fall back to what your dad taught you and you become you sound like, man, I sound like my dad.

It sound like my dad. My dad used to drink Cokes with lemons in him, right? Then he moved to Diet Coke. I essentially do the same thing only with Arnold Palmer's, right? like it's one drink over and over and over and over again. I'm just a creature of habit. He used to get up and read his paper every day. I get up and use Twitter to get to my news feed,

which takes me to kind of my digital paper every day. Like, I'm bending the words you use and, you know, like sometimes you're coaching and he was a guy that would jump kids and I, like, man, I sound and feel like my dad. And whether it's his real father was a basketball player, and I think some of that's this, or whether it's his basketball father, who's LeBron James or his big brother. Feels like Kyrie Irving's become his dad, his mentor. The things that Kyrie says are just the same sort of arrogance, aloofness,

where everyone thinks he's bright, everyone thinks he knows the sport. No one's questioning his talent, but, man, he says some things that make you really, really uncomfortable. Doesn't that sound like LeBron James? The difference is, LeBron James wins more. It's more dynamic player. He's just bigger, stronger, and frankly better. And when you win and you have the image of LeBron James,

you're able to get away with saying some of these things and doing some of the things that he's done. I'd offer up that Kyrie has become like his big brother or like his dad sort of in his aloofness in the way he handles himself, not knowing his real dad, just knowing his basketball dad, who's LeBron James. And then the Boston Celtics are a classic case of what happens when you take talent over,

character are pieces that don't fit together. The Celtics are absolutely more talented this year with Kyrie than they were last year. So too is the rest of the league, especially the Eastern Conference. That should be noted. Like the Bucks are actually good. They've been good all year. They had the best defense in the league all year. It shouldn't be surprising that they took the Celtics out of everything they want to do.

That's what they do. But the chemical makeup wasn't the right fit for Brad Stevens. It wasn't the right fit for each other. And they never got out of their team what they should have gotten out of their team. And I'm sure the team will be better because of it. And Kyrie and whoever else departs will go on to great careers and we'll say, well, maybe it's Brad. No, just sometimes a bunch of ingredients together don't make a great meal.

Let's move on to the Lakers where, look, this is what happens when you have an inexperienced owner, an inexperienced GM, no assistant GM. You have the LeBron faction and the desire to separate yourself on some level from being team LeBron. And then you had the pull from others saying like, let's just give LeBron what he wants and see if you can figure it out. And sometimes you just overthink it,

which feels a little bit like this deal. If Tyron Liu says, I want five years and you offered three, all right, so you started low. That's negotiation. But at the end of the day, you got like, all right, let's just get this head coaching thing done

and get it off our plate. But instead, you pissed him off. And once you disrespect somebody, whether it's putting Jason Kidd in the staff or dictating terms of length of contract. They understand this is not somebody I want to work for. I want the only way in which you succeed in sports is when everybody's pulling the same direction.

Jimbo Fisher said that when he got to Texas A&M. Obviously he was a shot at Florida State. But it's true. The only way you get somewhere and somewhere great is when everybody's pulling the same direction and the Lakers have the LeBron faction, the Kobe fraction. I don't know what magic wants

other than to be a cheerleader. You got Jeannie or brothers. I mean, it's a mess. It's a mess. And when stories like this get out, combined with the story of the Anthony Davis trade getting out, combined with the Magic Johnson pulling the trigger on his own presidency and making that public.

And then LeBron has his TV show talking about it and about just being bewildered and upset and not getting it and no one telling him, you're a coach, you're like, that has no chance of succeeding because the only way you succeed is if everybody's pulling the same direction. All right, let's get to the Warriors and the Rockets.

Here's my thing on the Rockets. I understand analytics, and I think they obviously do. On the other hand, they kind of help make the argument for us, that analytics aren't the only answer when they signed Carmelo Anthony and of course they had already made the trade for Chris Paul

because Chris Paul's more of a mid-range guy, pick and roll guy, although he can drive and kick, but he's not really a three-point shoot. It's not really who he is. They made this case for the mid-range and for post-ups. And it's interesting.

Of the things that have happened that have allowed the warriors to They won two games, and look, they could have won game three. They could have won game four, and they got badly outplayed. They did win game five even without Kevin Durant. I think the Warriors are the Far Superior team. When I say Far Superior, I don't mean like one team shouldn't be in the playoffs, but they're the better team.

I don't know if they win this series, and if they don't, it's more of an indictment on Houston than it is on Golden State. Because Golden State doesn't have Demarcus cousins. They don't have Kevin Durant. They just don't. and for two games, you might be able to win, all you got to do is win one of them.

It's really all you got to do is win one of them. Over a seven game series, I don't think they would be able to win the series without Kevin Grant. And of course, you don't have cousins, you might get him back next series. You might not, I don't know. But I think it's also an indictment on their style.

Like, you need to throw it in the post a little bit and let everybody else space out, maybe cut. but just the idea of constantly attacking with ISOs, constantly attacking with ball screens. Like, it's just you need to vary things a little bit. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, Follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal concerns. I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

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Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, learn the whole. hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star Leila

Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood. that like it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladeke. The ability to show gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile,

that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard.

Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Don't run creative sets. They don't run creative kind of ball movement, pistol stuff into a ball screen, trying to create downhill action. They just set a ball screen, get the mismatch they want, and go. That's kind of all they do.

if James Harden has the basketball. And though the stats and analytics would tell you, post-ups are bad, okay? The fact is that when Golden State needs a bucket, they do one of three things. And one of those things they do is throw it into Kevin Durant in the post. And, of course, they run some cutting action off him, some splits off of him. And they allow him also to isolate and go one-on-one. Why? Because it lets everybody else take a break.

And so sometimes a tough two or a post-up two is not a bad thing. also can get you fouled. You can find a mismatch and shoot over somebody, which becomes a higher percentage shot than analytics would tell you. But isn't it fascinating that maybe the thing people are missing on is this, you know, layups, three's free throws thing in an NBA playoff series, even when the other teams without two starters might not work. And I know you're going to, if Golden State pulls it off,

you'll say, well, doesn't that indict how great Kevin Durant is? because if anybody else lost their best player, I give you the Boston Celtics last year. They didn't have their two best players. They went to the Eastern Conference finals. Why? Because you can win games on emotion and energy and guys playing above their level.

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I was in eighth grade. And he's the assistant coach of BYU. He was a first team All-American coming out of high school, Woodbridge High School. He went to Duke as a McDonald's All-American. First, in the immediate, you guys were at Utah Valley. And for people who don't know, Utah Valley is like what? Four miles from Provo? I think it's like 4.5.

In fact, on the I-15, it's the exact same exit. You just drive further up towards the mountain for BYU. So, yeah, about four and a half miles away. I mean, so do you, I mean, usually when you change jobs, you have to relocate, do you keep your kids in the same school? Do you move them into Provo's schools? Like, how does that work? I'm actually going to stay in the same home, keep the kids.

I've got a freshman in high school, so I don't want to move her at all. I like where she's at. And so we've been in this area near Provo, just outside Provo for four years, having been at Utah Valley. So when you can move jobs, right, in Division I and coaching in the coaching world and not have to move and keep some stability, I was, I was all for it. And so, yeah, we are staying in the same school, same home, everything. Is it weird at all? And weird by two different parts. Is it weird because one, you guys left one school and you're going to, I mean, I think every, obviously the BYU thing is huge.

I just, but also for you, you were a candidate to, to be the head coach. Like, is it weird at all to be around Utah Valley? No, I've got, so Eric Daniels is still who I worked with the last four years, Donnie Daniels, by the way. So Eric Daniels is still on staff there, and Mark Madden have known for a while. So, you know, and those players, most of those players are the guys that we help recruit. And so it's not weird. I drive by it on my way to work here at BYU every day.

and I've closed that chapter of my life, but I have a lot of good memories and my good feelings towards that place, even though I didn't get the head coaching job and interviewed before and everything, because I do think it's in good hands with Mad Dog, and I'm cheering for guys like Eric Daniels because I do, I went to war with that guy for four straight years. What's the phone call like, though, when you don't get the job? You know, you're disappointed.

at first because you feel like you put in all the work to try to become a head coach mentally and physically. You helped build a program that was ranked 322 four years ago, according to Ken Palm. And I think right now the season ended it's 101. And so

we actually looked at it statistically. It's the second biggest jump in a four-year span behind Nevada, what must did in Nevada. And so you feel like you're really part of that. And I think that, you know, the feeling is like, hey, when a coach gets promoted to a better job, right? a better paying job, higher major job, all these different things.

You feel like maybe an in-house move is the right decision, whether it was myself or the other sister network with Cody Figer. And when you don't get it, there's disappointment. But at the same time, you know, I already had been reaching out to Pope throughout this process. And I knew there was a great chance that I would still kind of land on my feet at BYU, which is still like after four years being in Division I college coaching, like I'm moving up,

which is the ultimate goal. So I'll hopefully get another shot at some point in Division I head coaching job. There's disappointment, but at the same time, like, I'm always like that next play, next play mentality. And so it's like, all right, let's go crush it at BYU. Okay, so I want to get into BYU because there's a lot of the BYU stuff that I'm intrigued by. But I want to, but before we get there, I'm now want to kind of go back. All right.

So you grew up in Irvine, right? And you grew up in the Woodbridge district? Is that where you grew up? because, like, I only, I'm going to meet you until you're playing with Shay Cotton's team the year I stayed back. Yeah, so when I first moved to Irvine back in, I think, 1986, first came back to Southern California. Anyway, it was Woodbridge. So I grew up in the Woodbridge district. Okay, so your first, where did you first start playing who?

High school or just in general. In general. So locally, I started just like the Irvine City and then Pat Barrett. and David, Stan Castle was in David's dad at the time that started that kind of PTIAAU team, performance training institute team that we were practicing there in Anaheim, you know, the Anaheim Convention Center, Hotel, whatever is right there. And so we were practicing there. And that's where that sixth grade team started the fifth, sixth grade team,

started the form of Shaycott and David Castle and Jason Hart. I was always playing up. Brad Williams, right? And so that's why I started. And then PTI eventually grew into SCA, Southern California All-Stars. And, you know, there's only so many, you know, Southern California AAU teams. Branch West being won, FCA being won. Of course, ARC with the twins, K-Swiss with Paul Pierce and Baron Davis.

And so and then SlammaJam, right? Those were kind of the main teams. And I kind of stuck it out with coach. coach Pat Barrett and up until my last, honestly like I played once July circuit with SCA and Pat was flying in all these different dudes from all over the country that I bounced like my last couple tournaments and went with a Utah based team. That's fascinating. It's interesting.

So the names for people who you're tracking all these names. Okay. So David, where the hell of David Castle doesn't end up playing? He played at Southern Utah? So he went to, he played up at Fullerton. He ended up at Fullerton. After he went junior college, I think he was OCC, Orange Coast College for a year two,

and then he ended up playing at Fullerton. And then Brad Williams, the other name you brought up, he played football at Notre Dame. He actually grew up, his house was literally right behind mine. Yeah, I know. Or like two guys that played, went to Notre Dame, and I don't know if I have no idea what happened to Brad. His parents don't live in that house anymore.

But here's how far back I go with Brad Williams. We first moved to California, 81. My dad was an assistant at Long Beach State. And his mom used to babysit me after school. And this is all I remember about it was they had a pool, which I thought was the greatest thing ever because we didn't have a pool. His mom raised dachshunds, like she bred dachshunds, which were among the most annoying dogs on earth.

And they had a conversion van. They were like the first, the only people I knew had had a conversion van. that had a TV in it. And we used to play on, I think we used to play the same football team and some same basketball teams, whatever. And he was a year younger than me, but he was a bohemist. And I used to love going to games with his parents because we'd watch TV in the van, like up until game time,

and he'd come scurrying out of the van. Yeah. His dad, I remember his dad, if I remember his dad was big, strong, but just this, like, teddy bear of a guy. Like, it's funny. Like, yeah, so it was Big Brad. We always called him Big Brad. and then we had Brad Smith on the team.

I don't know if he can remember him, but he played at Lombie State, and that was little Brad. So, yeah. That's amazing team. And then Jason Hart, and so what happened was, when you guys were in,

I'm going to say sixth grade, you guys were like the best team in the country. And I was in eighth, I think I was eighth grade, and I stayed back. Or maybe you guys were in seventh grade. Anyway, I had no team to play with.

So I played with a team, L.A., and I played in a league at Westchester High School. I played. played in leagues in Compton College. And then I practiced with you guys a couple days a week. And I mean, you guys were, it was an unbelievable, like if you go back and look, like there was unbelievable players kind of in that gym. Why do you think, I know Shay has a documentary out there.

Yeah. I mean, like, I want to get into your career, but why do you think Shay never made it? Well, he was, he was the same size. I saw it from seven, eight, nine, all the way to his senior. He was kind of the same size, right? Like he was just bigger,

stronger, and more developed in every one of us. I mean, he was a good, almost two years because he had stayed back. He was like a good year and a half two years older than me

and some other guys. And so he was just so developed. And I think he just had so many distractions, right? Where James caught in his brother in Tumby State, less distractions.

And he ended up making, I think, a roster with the sauna. for a little bit. I just think there were so many people pulling at Shea wanting to go here, wanting a piece of them there,

wanting to be there. And at one point he retires from high school basketball, right? Is that, that's not right? I can't really, I want to say,

you start to Bosco, right? Transcendantor's modern day. Senior, transfers back to Bosco and decided to retire. Right? So there was just so many

to get ready for, like it was the most bizarre thing. And for people don't know we're talking about, Shee Cotton was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. This is the year before Kevin Garnet

declared out of high school to go to the pros that he could be, you know, the next, you know, the first, he could be the next Moses Malone, right? That was Shaycott was that big. Left-handed, six, five, I guess he was a two, three, which is, which is interesting, which is kind of like you, he was kind of born too soon a little bit. Did he need to shoot it better? Like, yeah, he never shot the ball nearly well enough. But it's interesting, like, the way in which you play center, you played center as like a stretch five.

and rim protector defensively, like now you'd be golden. Whereas back then it was like, why is Burgess out here shooting threes when he needs to score with his back to the basket? She, I'm not wrong, am I? No, it's 100%. Okay.

And Shay's the same way. Like now, Shay was, they wanted to make him into a guard and like, dude, he's not a guard. He's like a three, four. And now he could actually play for. Again, he would have to have improve his shooting. But it is interesting on how basketball,

it's like, were born a little bit too soon. Yeah, yeah. And he has some weird things. Like the retiring from high school and, you know, committing to UCLA and it not working out, and then eventually ended up in Long Beach City and then Alabama had a solid year

at Alabama, right, with Gersard and Mo Williams. I think he ever's 13 and he's all-newcomer team with the SEC and just leave, right? Even though everyone's like, not getting drafted, but just leave. I mean, this dude went against Ron Mercer's team, O'Kill in high school, and he's the best player on the floor, right? he goes against Marbury's team, Lincoln, at New York when he's at Modern Day,

and Shade's the best player on the floor. I mean, the dude is, he was so good. I witnessed it for, like, my whole childhood and high school career. Really, really amazing. Okay, let's talk about you. So you go to Modern Day your first year, and I remember that team because the worst game I had in my high school career was against that team at Ocean View.

I had a triple double, and I think it was like 11 turnover, something crazy. And that team, tell me if I'm wrong here. So Miles Simon was, I'm going to say a senior, right? You had Darren Height, who I grew up playing with. You had Mike Carrick who I grew up playing with. You had you. You had Mike Vukovic, you played at UC Santa Barbara.

You had this freshman group of you. Kevin Augustine, Kevin Augustine, and me, Vukovic. And then Clay McKnight was a junior. Junior. Okay. He played a Pacific. You're one of the great shooters in the history of college basketball. And then Sean, right, whose brothers had played before.

Sean Jackson, who played at Wyoming. Sean Jackson. Yep, Sean Jackson. And then Josh Porter, who I think went to Cal Poly. Yeah. And his son's one of the best teenage baseball players in America, by the way. Yeah. I mean, like that was he was.

You might have had David Drakeford, too. Was Drakeford the same year? No, he wouldn't there with me. He wasn't there with me. Yeah, Drakeford must have been the year before. he went to Oregon State. So this is all one team at Modder Day. And you had this great group of freshmen.

Why'd you leave? Wasn't comfortable. I loved coachman and I. I loved the staff. As a freshman on Mater Day, just wasn't ready, wasn't comfortable. I grew up in the public school system in Irvine,

missed my friend, you know, started not really liking the game. I was a baseball player as well, and they kind of just stuck me on the baseball team just like Frosh Soft team, it wasn't really good. And, you know, I'm a 14, 15-year-old kid at the time. And, like, baseball was a big deal in my life.

And, like, my buddies back at Woodbridge, we're all playing. And I honestly, just, even though I lived at home, I got homesick of just being kind of a hard of being kind of Mardi and just not knowing a ton of guys. Right? And so that's why I transferred. I was, as I went to my dad, and I was like, I just want to go back and play with the guys I grew up playing baseball with, the guys I grew up playing City League with. Like, I still think we have.

had a chance to be really, really good at Woodbridge, and this is what I want to do. And it was tough. Like, my dad was, my dad was kind of bummed. Like, he really loved the whole modern day. He loved McNight. He loved the fact that I'm getting my butt kicked every day in practice, right? And it was going to be another year with Sean Jackson coming back. But ultimately, I just wasn't having as much fun.

And it might have been because I was a 14-year-old kid just getting my butt kick every single freaking day by Division I. No, listen, listen, the reason, I mean, look, the reason I didn't go to a modern day. Now, I didn't go to a, I grew up, you know, you could walk to El Medina High School, my brother and sister went. Yeah. And honestly, you probably could walk or ride your bike to foothin high school. Instead, I went to Tustin High School because Tom McCluskey was the coach.

And they won the state championship. I just felt like it was really good. I just, I didn't dig the whole modern day thing. And then what I came to really embrace is I didn't mind not having the best players. Like I know that's for some people. Yeah. And it's interesting, kind of the modern day thing has been copied 50 times over now. Yes.

But I didn't mind, like, in hindsight, like, we didn't win, we lost in the CIA finals to Dominguez, my senior year. And I remember my junior year, those guys, we played Dominguez at Compton College. And, I mean, we had guys that just pissed down their leg, right? They were so scared. Yeah, of course. And it was, but I actually kind of enjoyed. the process. It was a lot like what it was like to play it at Oklahoma State, where like you, I would, I'd prefer to do it that way as opposed to the kind of put together All-Star team way where you just, you have better players than everybody else 95% of the time. I think it builds. And I do, I agree with you in the baseball thing. I will tell you, like my thing, I was a baseball player. I wasn't, I wasn't as good as you were at baseball, but I love baseball. Tustin was really, really good. And my thing was like, They are.

My freshman year, we went to the state tournament in basketball. And by the time I came out of it, like, everybody had positions and I got stuck. Same thing, like, Frosh soft team. And I was a catcher. And they're like, well, where do you have a catcher? You got to play second base, a third base. And like, there's rockets coming down my way. I'm like, mm-hmm.

So you go to, so you go to Woodbridge, okay? And you have this unbelievable high school career. Yeah. And you got a decision to make. Now, here's where it comes back to the B-Wbridge. Y, Utah thing. What was it about BYU at a high school? I mean, there's a ton of pressure from the Mormon church, right, to go to BYU.

What was BYU like when you came out of high school? So I grew up in kind of a BYU family. Of course, my dad went there, right? And it's just like every Mormon kid, right, that's all over the world. Like, you know about BYU and you know about school and what it represents. And so I've always kind of like went to a ton of football games and watched them on TV if they everywhere on TV. Anytime I was in Utah during growing up,

I'd come to a game at the Marriott Center, so I knew all about BYU. And I didn't, like, there was no social media, or I wasn't in the state of Utah, where I felt a ton of pressure about going there. I genuinely liked,

um, the state of Utah and having some family there. I liked the fact, um, that there was like 20,000 fans. You got to play in this big arena, right, the Marriott Center.

I loved the coaching staff and, and, because they'd been recruited me the longest in the, hardest since my freshman year because you have a six-foot-nine freshman 14-year-old get out of Southern California. Of course, they're going to do their homework and recruit you. So I had a great relationship with staff, and it was Coach Archball was an assistant, Tony Engel was assistant, and of course Reed, Coach Rodriguez was a head coach. So I had such a, they had cultivated such a good relationship with me on all ends. I had thoroughly enjoyed those being around

those coaches. And then there was a good recruiting class for the class of 97 with Britt and Johnson, right, McDonald's All-American out of Salt Lake. McKellie Wesley, an all-state kid, who ended up being Mount West Play the year, his senior year at BYU. Michael Johnson, a Seattle-based kid who ended up signing at U-Dub. So there was like a good class, and so I was intrigued like, hey, like, we got a, we have something going here. Now, BYU was really struggling the time my senior year. I think they actually finished the year one in 26, right, or one in 27. And so to me, it was not really, it was more about what I could accomplish at Duke in terms

of winning national championship, final fours, playing the ACC, right, going against North Carolina and Dean Smith and these things. And so that kind of was, it was about that for me. And then they had signed a really good class. And that was kind of the last piece of the puzzle with Shane Badié and William Avery and out of Grant. And I thought, man, we grew up in the era of the Fab Five too, right? So I'm like, oh, man, this is a Fab Four type thing.

And we're going to go to the Final Four's national championship just like C Webb when those guys did. And this time we're going to win it, right? you have all these dreams and aspirations of what you think can happen with your career. And I think it was more about that than anything, right? It was more about that than anything. It's kind of interesting, right? It's like history repeats itself a little bit where you went to modern day to play kind of with the dream team. You weren't comfortable.

You go to Duke to play kind of with the dream team. We played you guys your freshman year in the tournament. Yeah, we did. It's right. It was a great game. Games tied with two and a half to go. And coach Sutton never called. He didn't call plays.

And all of a sudden he starts yelling out and he's doing some symbol like making his hands like spread out. And I'm like, I don't know what you're saying. And it was really loud in Lexington. So I called time out. And we ran up and he was just, she was like, oh, just telling you to spread out. Just telling you to spread out. And I was like, well, shit, you didn't have to make some hand signal. I thought I was missing a play call, you know.

Anyway, we run, we ran a play called Cowboy Fade. And Adrian Peterson, it's just. It's that kind of two-one-two set, hit me in the middle, and then we have, you know, flares on each side. And I go to Adrian Peterson, and he's open for a catch and shoot, and instead he drove in and missed a drive. And Rashah McLeod was just so,

it was just such a hard matchup for us at the time. He kicked her. He scored like two straight buckets. We missed a couple, and then we fell. We ended up losing by six. But that team for people don't remember, okay? So Wojo was a senior. Ricky Price was in the doghouse as a senior.

I grew up playing against Slick Rick. Nate James. Taman Domsowski, like, got zero burn. Like, Taman Damsowski and you on the same team. Like, that's a lot of big white guys. But it was the three Bays, right? You, Badi, Ape, and Brand, were the freshman with William Avery, Chris Carrowell, Trajan Lagnan, and then Risham McLeod, who was his first transfer, right, out of Rutgers.

What was your Duke experience like? It was good. It really was. Like, I enjoyed my time there. And some of my closest friends to this day are not only like guys, I play. played with from my first year there's, but like some of the classmates I had. Like I enjoyed it. I learned, I learned so much from coach in terms of, like, he was all about like the name on the front of your jersey, right?

And it didn't matter who he recruited, whether it was Elton, whether it was like Okafore, whether it's Marvin Bagley. No one's bigger than Coach Kate, right? And no one's bigger than Duke or his program. And that's what he was so good about. Like it was for him was all about like culture, the program and motivation in playing hard. Right. And he never, there was no over-complicating anything.

Like, obviously I played from the Jersey, Utah. I don't know we'll get there, but it was like, hey, we're going to play hard on these guys. We're going to play it this way. It doesn't matter what they run. We're going to show on ball screens, and we're going to front the pose, or we're going to be, we're going to get up the line and make it difficult to pass, and we're going to spend 10% on scouting and 90% on us. Right. And you can do that because you got eight McDonald's All-Americans and three, four future lottery picks on the team.

But I like that. I like that. And I got to play like in a Maui Classic. I got to play in elite aid in a national championship game. And I got all these experiences that you dream of as a kid, right? You dream of as a kid. And so my experience was really good. It was just, like you said, I'm not an ACC back to the basket five, man.

I was never comfortable that way. And I'm a 6-11, probably like 2, 30-pound, you know, center in the AC trying to go against Brendan Haywood, who's 7-1 and 270 pounds, and Elton Brand every day in practice. You know, so it's just, I'm not an ACC center. I'm not a back-to-bass again. That's what I felt. Well, he also wasn't willing.

We weren't at the point in time when he was really willing to evolve and to have a face-up five, right? Right, right. Remember, that's really kind of what it comes down to is we were, it was like a different era. You mentioned the national championship game. Your last game at Duke was in Tampa against Yukon. Rip Hamilton and

Khaled Abdul Kaleed Elamine Kahlia, sorry and you lost that game that was a we shocked the world upset Yeah What do you remember about the game? They just

They locked up Elton I remember that Elton was the player of the year that year And they I swear they had Voskel and Edmund Saunders banging him from behind Like you know pushing him from behind and they had Kevin Freeman, who was now an assistant at Penn State, you know, front him, and they just absolutely locked up Elton.

We couldn't get Elton going. Trajan had a great game. I do remember that. And then Ricky Moore was kind of the X factor for Yukon point guard. He wasn't a score. He was more a facilitator. But he scores the first, like, 12, you know, he has 12 points to first half, and he's kicking Will Avery, who was his high school team his butt.

And then we had zero answer for Rick Hamilton, zero answer. And he was, I mean, this is before analytics, right, where it was mid-range after curl, after curl, after curl, after curl. And I remember being a really good game back and forth, back and forth, and Kalit hits two free throws with, what, nine seconds left to go up three. We come down. We give the ball, of course, to our senior trade and Langdon, or our junior. You know, he's really, I mean, no, it wasn't a senior. Yeah, senior trainer Langdon. He comes down and we don't get a shot off.

They double them and cause a turnover. And when it ends, right, it ends. because it's so hard to get to a Final Four let below in a national championship game. It's so hard and the season is so long. And when that buzzer goes off, regardless of the celebration and the fans, regards to anything, it just comes, like, flooding down on you of like, we were so close. Like, we may never get back here. Like, it's over.

Like, I remember that, like, overwhelming feeling of, like, are you kidding? Like, this was really hard just to get to this point and nothing showed it. So anytime I watch a national championship game to this day, I feel for the, like, I felt protection. Like, I'm looking at Matt Mooney and being like, it's the, and I didn't play. I mean, what was I, 12 minutes a game, 14 minutes a game. I'm looking at Matt Mooney and Owens these guys. I'm like, Colver, I'm like, this is the worst feeling in the world because you're going to remember that for the rest of your life, that feeling and that's so close, but didn't get it. Like, it's almost like I'd rather lose them a lead eight.

Tom, I'm going to disagree with you. I lost the elite eight, my last game. I'm going to disagree with you. But yes, like literally nobody remembers your team. You go from, it's the Seinfeld always says it about the Olympics, right? Like gold medal, bronze medal, silver medal, silver medal, bronze medal, never heard of them, right? So I tell you, like, Elite eight, we had a great team my senior year. I mean, like a great team.

And we were a little bit ahead of the curve. We played mostly four hours. one in. But we ran into Florida, who was just crazy talented. We had some guys that were a little bit under the weather, but like they jumped on us and our game plan wasn't great. Like we, here's what I remember for us is, you know, we only had like a day, you only had a day prepare as you do for the national championship game.

And what sucked was John Pelfrey was their assistant. Yeah. And Pell had actually come to our practice mid-year. He was like at our practice for I think two days taking notes because we were one of the best defensive teams in the country and he had played for Coach Sutton. He's best friends with Sean Sutton. And even though he's an assistant in Florida, we're like,

we're never going to play Florida. Like, yeah, come on, watch practice, whatever. And he wanted to see like how he got us to get after it, right? And Coach Sutton was much the same way as Coach Sheshefsky. We did do a lot more scanner report stuff, but it was more like, hey, look, we're, you know, we're post-dubling every time we worked on seals and rotate. but it was more get up in the lane

get on their ass turn their ass to glass make them play like their tentative and run through passes and go play basketball but I remember like he knew everything we did because he was at our practice

so we get ready for the game and coach is so freaked out about their press that the day before we work on our press breaker and I'd never been like there's never been a press that's ever affected me you know as you know playing with my dad Like that's all he worked on in AAU basketball, which, and I used to love it.

And we're spending all this time on press breaker. And I'm like, why are we working on press? Like, that ain't just give me the fucking ball and get out of the way. Like, let's go. And we took off our secondary break out of the press breaker. And if we didn't, again, this is like before analytics. If you would have stated, like, we scored almost everything out of secondary break, not out of our half court offense.

And our zone offense was crummy. We just had really good shooters and a really good passer. And so we end up like breaking the press. and they gave us a little bit of problem. He got a technical foul. We tried to run a trick play to throw a long once or twice. But whatever. Once we started just getting our press break, breaking it,

they called off their press. And they did so. They go back into his own, but he never put us into our secondary break, even against his own. And so we could, but regardless, we ended up, we tied it, and then Mike Miller hits a three,

and I think DuPay hits a three, and we end up getting, not necessarily run out of the gym, but it felt that way. And I remember, it's exactly what you're talking about. like the buzzer sounds and at the time you're a sophomore

so you still had life like for me it's over and I remember buzzer sounds and we were mad because one of their guys dunked the ball like it was like 11 points and they drove out of the clock one of their guys goes in and tomahawks the ball

as the buzzer's going off and we all wanted to fight him and we're shaking hands like you're shaking hands of Billy Donovan and you're just standing there and you're watching them celebrate and get ready to cut down the nets and I'd kind of watch that for a little bit

and you start going to the locker and you look around and you like, I can't believe it's over. There's no more practice. There's no more games. There's no more anything, right? You're sitting around in the locker room. Do you remember what Kay said after the game?

I don't. I just remember, honestly remember he came around and hugged every senior spurs and then hugged every one of us. That's all I remember. That's all I remember. You don't, yeah. I think it's the feeling, right?

Our season ends. And I know, like, last year, you know, we lose in the whack tournament or whatever at Utah Valley. And it's more of like, coach is like, you know, in the locker, I'm not sure exactly what to say these guys. I don't know what to give these guys.

And it's just like, I think it's more just the feeling, right? Like these guys are just going to feel more. They're not going to remember anything we say, but they'll remember the feeling. And I do remember just sadness. So what do you remember about the decision to transfer?

Were you watching the game going like, I'm out of here? Or was it you got home? No, not at all. Yeah, I got home. and I got home and, you know, they had a really good class coming in

like they always do. It's a Duke. And Elton was leaving, and I'm like, oh, yeah, nice. Elton's leaving. And me and me and Shane and Dunleavy and Jay Will and, you know, a boozer and these guys

and a great team. And I just thought, it was more of just like, you know what, if I'm going to be this five men, like, you know, back to the basket, five men, screener, roller, rebounder, which I took,

I'm like, I want to go play for a coach in a system where I'm going to get, I'm going to get developed, but I'm going to get, it's one thing to develop in practice and on your own, but it's another thing to get developed with game reps, right? I think that's how big to get developed. I mean, everybody, but mainly big because that's what I am. So I'm like, I'm going to go to a play for a coach that, that ball goes inside, inside, inside, some more. Like, that was our saying.

And so that's what it was. When I transferred, yeah, I talked to UCLA and some other schools that were close to home. I think I actually even talked to you that your brother. No, your brother wasn't there yet, San Diego State, but I know I talked to San Diego State and UCLA and actually even talked to Irvine where I'm from, and I was like, I'm going to play for Rick Majeris. I'm going to go to Utah.

He's killing it in the whack, which was turning to the Mount West. And this dude is going to, I mean, first of all he had known him. He recruited me out of high school and I went to their big man guard camp as a kid, and I knew how good he was with the post. But the thing was, he threw that ball inside. He threw that ball inside. And so now I get to play in the Mount West, get a ton of touches in the post.

and it's a good team that's going to compete for a Mount West Championship and, you know, an NCAA tournament good seeding. And so to me, that was what it was about. I won't play for coach. Why didn't you get it? Why didn't you transfer to BYU? At the time, they were kind of on the, they're just on the down right now. They're working the way up, new coach, and it was more about Rick Majerris

than, if you honestly, than the actual university. It was more about Rick Majeris and what he'd done with post players. And, of course, you're good with guards. I mean, look at Andre Miller's. That's one of the best-story careers, both in college and in the NBA. But it was about Rick Majeris and post-development more than it was school, right?

That's why it's like UCLA. I was huge fan of this home for me. San Diego State, come on, you're in the beach. Good level. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to play for this coach. She's killing it right now. And I was close with Britt and Johnson, too.

We were a good friend. I was like, we're going to crush this thing together. By the way, I think my brother was it at San Diego State at the time. Did he come over there with Coach? He was there with Fish, but he didn't join Fish until like the fall, I think. Yeah. I'll give you a quick story about how bad they were. Like, you remember, like, this is amazing about San Diego State.

Like, they were so bad when we grew up. People don't know that. They won zero games my redshirt year in the Mountain West. Zero. Yes, they were terrible. So we play him the next year is Fish's first year, right? Or maybe that was the first year. And I had thought about leaving there because we're going to play for Majeris

during my junior year because I was in the dog house and I wasn't enjoying myself. And so coach schedules the game with San Diego State because I think you wanted to go to San Diego the next year because he thought we were going to be bad. And he was like, at least I'll be in San Diego. So we play him in Oklahoma City and we're up like 40 to 14 at the house. half. And he comes in and we're like sitting there and we're, you know, pounding our chest or whatever. And we got a really good team.

And he sits down next to me. He goes, you tell your brother, you better go get some players, brother, because you can get your ass fired. They're terrible, right? Turns out, by the way, the next year, Stalinger State did beat Oklahoma State at Villahas. I think it was Cox back then. Anyway, yeah, they were, they were bad. So what was sitting out?

You're with Majeris. And for people who don't know Majeris, like, I think. almost went and played for Majeris before I transferred Oklahoma State. That was really two of my final three schools, Marquette, Notre Dame, and I mean, Alabama, a little bit too, and then, and Utah. And the only reason I didn't was, it was a week before I was going to visit. And there was a, they passed a rule where if you're Prop 48 and you graduated in four years, you got that year back.

So you got a fifth year kind of for free and your first year became like a redshirt year. And he straight, and his whole thing was like, Hey, Andre would have been a sophomore when I got there. And hey, you'll be a, you'll play with him for a year. Same backward. And then it'll be your team for two years. And then, you know, Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies,

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He's like, I don't think that's really what you want to do, be a point guard for one year. Anyway, I'll never forget. So I went to practice. They played UCI. this was so this is a 96 97 so this is your last year at duke and I went to practice and they had obviously had my horn they had doliac

they had metala and they had a squad and they had Andre Miller and their practice was unbelievable like it was he used to and you tell me if this changed whatever he'd get onto somebody's ass and then two lines and the guy would run over to the baseline and no one

is looking at him. Like he did, they were so disciplined that he didn't have to look at anybody at all. And he would go two lines and they would run down and back would be, I think that would be two lines. You'd tell him if I'm wrong.

And, or it'd say like four lines. It's supposed to be down and back twice would be two. Down and back twice. So down and back twice, right? But I'm like, like nowadays, like I have workouts with kids three days a week. And if I,

I just tell them to run a lap or whatever. But I hate that I have to watch them like, hey, you're not running hard. Take another lap. Like he'd literally, two lines. Go! And then, you know, and he Down, back, down, back,

get back into the drill. And then he would have his walk-ons. Huh? Jump right back into the drill. Right back into the drill. And then locked in. And then he had, and I remember he had his walk-ons that he would take with him on the road.

And then they would, you know, when they do scatter report, everybody would sit in their chairs, their notebooks open, and the walk-ons would run through every offensive. They'd run through an offensive set, then they'd come guard it. and they go back, they'd run through and off on the set, then they come guard it.

What did you do during your redshirt year with him? So I was one of the scout guys. So I was part of the walk-on. We called it a great squad because we had these great jerseys, and usually the jerseys had whatever number we were going against. So for the first, like, what is it? The first, we have three weeks of preseason before your exhibition game. I'm actually part of, like, the red-and-white squad, right?

I'm throwing in there. I'm going against Hano, who is a preseason All-American every day. It's awesome. I'm loving it. And then as soon as the game, start, the great squad, your scout team is introduced. Then I was throwing a scout squad, which was pretty fun because you had to learn all the plays, which is fine. But like, you had the green light and, like, coach was more focused in coaching on the actual eligible guys

or the guys who were going to get some playing time. And so, I mean, I'm telling you, I could do whatever I wanted in terms of like, in terms of, within the offense that, you know, we were scouting, things like that. But it was fantastic. Now, he was exactly what you said is exactly who he is. You played with fear in the gym, right? Where this generation, we always talk about joy in the gym and juice in the gym. But there was no joy or juice in the gym for Coach McGrath and T.

Like there was fear. But like his guys played harder than anyone, it was more prepared than anyone. And like you said, like he would say, well, he would always be like two sprints, five sprints. You go over there, you run your five. And you knew at any time coach could watch or he would have the video guy

up there in the stand go back and see how hard you ran those five sprints, right? So you just knew you didn't mess around. You just didn't. Like there was just too much fear. So boom, you'd jump back in the drill and you'd be tired as I'll get out. But you knew that like at any point, like you're going to get to extend on sprint. His stretches were long.

He taught, taught, stop, stop, stop. But I'm telling you, like, I was able to play 11 years professionally overseas for so many different teams because I was taught the game the right way. Right? I could fit into any system or any style because I was taught the right way. And that goes a long way overseas because sometimes your Americans come in and they just want to score, score, score, score, score, and, you know, and not want to guard, and know how to guard ball screen, not how to guard the post, and no help size. But Majority was the point where you were just so well disciplined and so well coached that it didn't matter where I went. I could sit right in.

Oh, yeah, I got this. No problem. of your life. Now, imagine trusting that big secret with the entire world. That is exactly what Tony Morrison did when he made the brave decision to share his HIV positive status in an open essay on Good Morning America's website. Hi, I'm Zach Stafford, host of In the Deep stories that shape us. In this episode, we sit down with Tony to talk about his identity as a Filipino American, his work as a producer, and the role trust plays in our own journeys. Because sometimes, The road to healing can feel like a retrograde, forcing us to take a pause and reflect about what comes next.

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That's LinkedIn.com slash reach to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, so your first year you had, you had Britton Johnson, right? Yeah. You had, didn't you have Lance Allred to? Wasn't he a good player? He was a good player. he was actually my backup from my freshman

my junior senior area of Utah but he was a really good player he's a big guy player of the year after he transferred but yeah Lance was on the team Britt was on a spring Johnson Travis Spivey Spivey which was a Georgia Tech transfer Yeah I that was that was the guy who took the spot that well I don't know if that would have been mine wherever I almost went to Georgia Tech

and they took Travis they took Spivey instead and yeah I guess some funny Georgia Tech stories And then you had what Didn't you have Kevin Bradley was like You're a scoring guard too. He was one and done.

Crenshaw's finest. He was one and done. He had a grade after his first year there as a junior. So a funny story about Kevin. Love him. Great player. But he came into our end of the year meeting. Jaris walked in late at this hotel there in the Marriott right there on a car away.

And he walked in. He's like, Kevin, this is your GPA. It was really bad. He's like, I told you and your mom on the own visit. I want to get a pull out with this. Like, you can be excused. You're off the team. Kevin, like, kind of looked around, stood up, walked out.

I have not seen Kevin Bradley since. Now, I've talked to him on the phone, but I've not seen Kevin Bradley since that meeting when coach is like, I told you. And he's our leading score. Like, he's our best guard. It's unbelievable, right? And that's, again, it's fear. But he's like, I told you. You didn't want to do your grades.

I told you and your mom, you're out. Never seen him then. Okay. So here's the best, here's the best, um, Majera story that I will, that I will share on this that I, that I know. what's the kid who I'm thinking he transferred to Oregon I think of David Jackson David Jackson okay David Jackson didn't play with you did he no so I came in when he transferred like we we each other exactly okay so here's the here's the so I won't tell you this story or maybe I'll tell you offline but he goes and he goes on visits right after leaving

Utah. And this particular group is, like most coaching staffs, like what I hate about my job or some people who are in my job is the way in which we portray college basketball coaches as like, like most of them are just a bunch of guys like me and you played basketball. They love basketball, love kids, love the locker room, like, right? And are kind of smart asses, you know? So, they're at dinner and they're like, okay, you can't, we can't order any food until you give us your best Majera story.

And so David Jackson says, just the other day. They're like, just the other day, he's like, yeah, this just happened. He said he went up to Majeris's hotel suite to ask for a transfer. He knocks on the door, and he

walks in and Rick answers the door in a towel. And for most people who follow Majera stories, they often involve some form of nudity. Oh, David, sorry, just got out of the shower and sits Sorry, Coach. Sorry, you don't call him coach, right?

You call him Rick? Some people call him Rick. Some people call him coach. Whatever you're comfortable with. He was fine. His whole thing, his whole thing was like, don't call me, coach, call me Rick. That was when he recruited me at least.

And so, sit down, sit down, sit down. So he goes, you know, Rick, we talked about transferring, and he's like looking down, like he's like no self-confidence. Like, you know, you're like, you're telling Rick McJarress you want out. So he's kind of hemming and holl and he looks up. And Majeris is out cold asleep in a chair with a towel, barely dressed. Now he starts to snore. And you're like, what do I do here?

Like, how do I, what do I do to wake him up? So he sits there for a couple minutes. And finally he's like, oh, the hell with it. He kind of like nudges him, nudges him. And Majeris goes, oh, oh, David, sorry, sorry, sorry. Oh, this medication I've been taken. It just knocks me out. and then he goes, and it makes my ball swell up.

And he shows him like his ball. And Dave Jackson's like, Rick, I want to transfer. Can you sign the release? Thanks for everything. Goodbye. He like walks out. That's his, that's his Majera story. So in it, you can give me a less or more graphic one.

Give me your best Majera story. So I got a good one. And it didn't involve me. I got great ones involved me, but their graphic and the name's calling things. But I got a great one. I tell everyone. I think it's fantastic, and it's how he rolled. So one of the great teammates I played with Mike Pusey, okay?

He's from just outside north of Salt Lake City, Utah, he's 6'9, big guy. You know, and he's on the recruiting room. They're on a home visit, Rick Majeris and Jeff Judkins, who was his assistant, a longtime. And they're at his home visit. And at the home visit, you got Mike Pusey, of course, a 17-8-year-old kid, and you got his pops, and then you got mom and sister, okay? And so coach is giving the whole spill. Coach is, you know, so honest at some point where he's trying to, like,

you try to scare me away, but he's being so honest. He's like, listen, I got Keith Van Horn. He's going to be seeing you next year. He's going to come in here after the garden every day. He's going to destroy you all these different things. And he's like, for you to be able to compete when eventually on time, you're going to have to gain weight. And he's like, and I'm looking at your mom and your sister,

and they're both really heavy, so I know that you got it in you. Who is this? This is Mike Pusey. So Mike ends up signing there. You know, he plays one year during Van Horn's senior year, goes on his Mormon mission to Sweden, comes back, and Mike's a sophomore, return missionary during my redshirt year.

I play my retry year with Mike, and then I play we're juniors together, and then coach ends up taking a scholarship way and Mike transfers to Utah State. And now Mike is an AD out here in Roy High School in Salt Lake, outside Salt Lake City. But like I'm telling you, man, like that's the kind of control

and how honesty was, but you, you respected him in this weird way where a guy, like Mike finds there. Like Mike signs there. And it was Judkins, Coach Judkin's job at the time to kind of calm the family down. Yeah.

You know, but I just saw Mike the other day and on my 40th, a couple weeks ago, and I brought up that story. He's like, oh, he told me, he told me all about it. Like, oh, yeah, he said this. He's like, you know, coach, though. But, like, can you imagine? I can't imagine going into a home visit as an assistant, first of all, and hearing

coach Pope say that to recruit. And then us still getting them. Like, there's just no way. There's no way. That's amazing. Now, is it true? You got to get it. Go ahead, go ahead.

Sorry. No, no, you got to get. I'm telling you, Britt and Johnson on your pod. You got to get him, man. He does jazz radio now, and he does things. But he, first of all, he got an unbelievable career and the things he had to do. He's got some unbelievable story. He does the best Rick Majeris' impersonation you've ever seen,

ever heard. Okay, so here's the other story. Now, Rick did, he also had a cruel side, right? And just like, right, so like Mark Jackson, who was a point guard, was a freshman and sophomore with you. And, I mean, you know, he would only call him the C word, right? Like, that was, okay. And this is what I was told. Ray Jackaletti gets the job after Rick leaves.

and Mark Jackson comes in and says, Coach, I want to play. And he's like, I love to have him. And he goes, I just have this one thing to ask you. And he's like, what's that? He's like, well, you promise me, you will never call me the C word? And he was like, done, easy, sail. Why would I ever call you that?

And he's like, that's the only name Rick Majeris would ever call me. And, uh, And he was like captain. He like walked away from the team. Like quit because of it, right? Oh, he quit. He quit. And like, I mean, he ended up coming back like you said for Jack and was first team all

Mount West went to the sweet 16 with Bogat. And big time, I'm telling you, big time player, tough as nail, Salt Lake City kids. And couldn't do it. He couldn't take coach. You couldn't do it. It couldn't take coach. Yeah.

There's always, there are guys. There are guys. And we had that at Oklahoma State who just couldn't, who couldn't handle it. You know, the, the Graham, twins, for example. Like, both the twins both play in the NBA. Stevie never started at Oakland State.

And really, like, you couldn't play him because he was so worked up over playing for coach that every time he came in the game, you'd travel. Like, first time he got the ball, you travel. And we like, and we try to convince people like, listen, he's actually a really good

player. He just can't play for coach. Some dudes can't do it. Some dudes can. It's really, okay, so you get done playing. Yeah. Right, and you had a, you had a good senior year? I wouldn't say you had everything you wanted in a senior year.

Is that fair? That's fair. Good senior year, but good senior year, especially coming out of a junior year. That was, I felt like my junior was disappointing. We did win the Mount, individually, collectively we did win the Mount West, which was great. But senior year, good senior year, good senior year. Not great senior year, but good senior year. So it's you, I mean, like, dude, you had good big guys.

You, Lance. You know, and Britain, obviously. Yep. So you go from McDonald's All-American, Duke, fifth-year guy, like almost 14 and seven, and you didn't get drafted. What's the feeling like to not get drafted? Oh, you're just bummed, right? You're disappointed.

There's like a lot of regret, right? There's always regret about your career. I should have done this, if I could have been. this about a bit mentally tougher here. You know what I mean? There's always regret. It's like it's all of us as players, right, and competitors. Even after games, it's like you don't leave it out on them.

I didn't feel like I left it all out there, whatever. But there was, I didn't blame anyone. I do remember that, not blame anyone inside myself. But there was this like, okay, my agent calls was like, all right, you got, we got three teams that want to bring in, you know, for summer, right? The Summer League. And so at that point, when the draft was over, I called actually, ironically, called Majeris, like, coach, I've got the Pacers, the Sun, and the

Knicks that want to bring me into summer camp. I need help, right? What do you think? Can you talk to these guys? Because he knows late, you know, Frank, or Scott, Scott laid with the Knicks. He knows Coach Ivoroni. He was an assistant with the Suns. And Pacers, he was really good for him.

So he called him, and he did all this research. And the next day he calls me, he's like, I think the Suns is the way to go. And so they had dropped it Amari and Casey Jagason and basically Jake Boscoe and I were going to compete for kind of this last roster spot. And so I went in Suns and played Summer League and got to play in Salt Lake and the Mount Review and got to play in Long Beach. It was great. Got invited to training camp. And ultimately was the last guy cut.

But yeah, there was definitely disappointment. But there was also just like, all right, let's make this another way. Like in your age is telling you, hey, it's better if you don't get drafted second round. You have more teams to choose from, which is completely true. But the competitor in you was just like, no, like, I wanted to get drafted. I wanted to hear my name called. Right. and so disappointment, boomed out, but at the same time, I was like, all right, let's go, let's find this right team, and let's make this roster a different way.

So what did you do? So I went to Phoenix, Summer Camp, played actually pretty well. Got to play alongside Amari, which was, I mean, he obviously was what he was, right, rookie the year. And then, and they're getting cut the day of the last three of the game. What was he like? I mean, because, like, listen, Marry's still playing in Israel, he's a shell of himself, and he hasn't been really the same since. the knee, but he was right at a high school, but he was a freak? What was he like to play with? So competitive. First of all, the first day you played with, the dude had no idea that

to play the game, but what he'd understand one thing about, you know, spacing or screening or moving, but what he did know is to attack that rim. He did know, like, where the ball was, and he just had this knack of knifing through defenses to score. And then Dan Tony, obviously, when he played for Dan Tony in the fall in the year, they're running ball screens with Steve Nash. I mean, that's just, I mean, come on. That's what he can do. Great dude, really funny. I mean, he's really funny.

He's older for a, I mean, he's a rookie, um, straight at high school kid, but he was older, right? And so he's really talking to the bus, um, uh, really good teammate, like, just fun to be around. Like, he brought, he brought a lot of joy to practice, um, just with his competitiveness and not, like, you have Googliato. It was a vet. Uh, Beau Outlaw was a vet. And this dude, and Sean Marion's been there a few years, just signed a big deal. but this dude of Mari was like, no, like, I'm the alpha dog here. I am the alpha dog.

So I remember during the preseason games, I turned to Scott Williams. It was like, this dude might get rookie to the year. And then Scott was like, he's going to get rookie year. You don't have to worry about that. And he did. He got rookie year. So you went to play for the Idaho Stampede, who I was on the Idaho Stampede right up until the first. My Idaho Stampede story is Brian Gates coached me in the USBL.

Yeah, and I And so I was supposed to play My agent had a team that was going to play in Russia And live in Italy, but I had to play in Israel And I didn't get my papers Because when I went to Israel, I told them the truth That I was living in Italy, they're like, no, you must have live in Israel Anyway, so I come back

There's like 14 point guards at camp I end up as one of the last two Aubrey-Rees got hurt, it was me and Darren Clinton And I'll never forget like we used to go, we used to stay at, I don't forget the hotel. And we were going, Rory White was the head coach. And we were going back and forth to practice. And we used to pick up the Idaho statesman and look in the transaction page.

And we'd look at guys that got cut in the NBA. We were like, oh, he's going to take somebody's job in the CBA. He's going to take somebody's job. We were kind of messing around. And I remember seeing Randy Livingston's name. And, I mean, I was there as a camper when Rain Levinston towards ACL as a counselor at ABCD. And so I knew how good. good Randy Livingston was.

And so I remember picking up to Idaho Stampeed, Idaho statesman on the way to practice one day. We were like, oh, Randy Livingston, no, he's taking somebody's job for sure. He's an NBA dude. He's taking some CBA. And we were just kind of joking around about it. So we have like picture day. It's like two days or two days for the season is going to start. Brian Gates had literally called me and said, hey, tell Angie, like my girlfriend is in Oklahoma.

Like, we'll, we'll share a U-Haul to move our stuff up. Like, I'm good. I'm set. I'm thinking about picking up. apartments what I'm going to do. We're taking, we're done taking pictures and we're taking like half court shots and trick shots. And I look down in like the vomatorium like that leads towards the locker room and I see this

tall bald dude. And I was like, oh shit, that's Randy Livingston. I'm going to get cut. And so we go that night, we play a scrimmage or an exhibition against college of Southern Idaho. And I was like, I thought I was like fighting for a starting spot. Like I had beaten out Darren McClinton with the USBL. I was starting ahead of him at the end of the year.

And but DMAC had been there the year before. so he was like the vet, so I kind of had to earn it. And we were, I mean, I was playing great. It was probably like you, right? Like you played in college and you felt like you're kind of free of the system and you felt like you're older than most college kids that come out. You're really comfortable. And the NBA game, the court is so wide open.

There's so many possessions that you can kind of pick and choose what you want to do when you want to do it. And I didn't play a minute. And I was like, oh, damn, I got cut. What was your stampede experience like? So funny, you know, Brian Gates was the assistant coach of Rory White. was the head coach. And so same, same two guys you just talked about. So they had drafted me. So when I got cut, they reached out right away through my agent and me. It was like, hey, come over here, come play. We got the spot. So I did.

I flew out there when training camp. I was in, you know, outside Boise, which is great because it's only like a four-hour drive from my wife from, oh, my girlfriend's time when I was getting married. And so it was close. I felt like was near Utah. Good guys in team. Played the first few games. And my agent called was just like, hey, there's a team of Turkey to be. basically wants to come, but they're not going to be able to pay that buyout. It's just the truth, right? And it's like, but if you had, so I went and talked to after four or five games, I was like, well, you know, I think I can get called up and played another game.

It was like, I don't know, we need to call up. And it was a really good deal in Turkey. And so I went to Gates. I went to Brian. It was like, can you just release me? Can you just, can you just release me so I can, you know, I can go home and, you know, I can get my rights back and this team doesn't have to buyout. And so Brian was a stud, man.

like I owe him to this day, he released me, went home for a week or two. The team was, like, it was kind of like the holiday break there in Turkey during the December time. It brought me in, flew me out, and ended up playing there for the first year. And really, like, it really worked out because that really, that was really the right place for you to get started in Europe.

Because, like you said, I wasn't in this college system anymore. We're back to the basket. Like, I would pick and pop. I would trail three because the coach is like, you have to take open shots. That's what we do here. Like, no one's guard. Like, shoot it.

Shoot the ball. Shoot the ball, right? And so it was just, it was just the mentality to have. It takes you, it takes you a while to break out of that mode. Like, you've been, you just get rewired by your college coach.

And, you know, I remember playing in Russia. And my coach would say, you know, like, you must have shoot. And I was like,

I'm just so wired to turn down shots. Then you went to Australia. Then you went to Australia. What was that like? loved it. Oh, man, loved it. It was great. It was good league. The money is so-so there, but great league. Again, it was one of the things like I was a stretch five there. It was awesome. Great teammates, good players. Aaron Baines for the Celtics was actually on our team as like the development player as like a 15-60-year-old kid. So it was fun. Played there two and a half seasons and put me in a situation to go play all. over back in Europe for a lot more money.

So Australia kind of put me, so I went Turkey, got a nice contract in Australia, and then that league put me on kind of a different map over in Europe. So I went back over there. But you also did the spring league stuff, right? Didn't you do Philippines? Yes. And for people who don't know, like, guys are European basketball guys, you know this. Like back then, and I don't know if it's, I think it's still the same way.

when you play CBA or now G League or whatever, I don't know if you can do a G league, but back then you played in CBA or some other state side league, there's ABA for a while too, where you play Australia where you don't make a ton of money. One way you can make up for that money that you lost out staying home is to go play in Venezuela, Philippines, Puerto Rico, where they're like one or two-month leagues,

but they're more money for a shorter period time, right? That's right. And they're looking for at least the countries I played. So that's what I did. I went to Philippines. I went to Puerto Rico, three days. different time for the spring and then part of the summer because of like like Australia League ends early, right? It ends in February where Europe goes all the way to like June and July.

June, sometimes July depending on the league. But I was just like, hey, like I'm young. There's only so long I can play. And I felt really good. So you go play in Philippine. Like you said, a lot of money for two, three months. They know how you're done the play out, go play in Puerto Rico. And then you'd add basically all of half, all of July, half of August, sometimes all of August, kind of recover and get ready for the next season. But I would do that, especially as a five, four men, those leagues like Philippines and Puerto Rico, they're always looking for four and five.

You played in Ukraine as well. Like, dude, you went all over. So for a guy who never went on his Mormon mission, you basically went on a Mormon mission, but you mentioned your girlfriend and now wife and you guys married with a bunch of kids. Like, what was that? What was your relationship with her like when you're traveling?

around chasing the basketball dream. So she was great. She's a former D1 athlete as well, so she understands time, commitment, and energy to take just to survive as an athlete and competitor. So she would come over with me right away at the beginning of my career, and then when kids started to get added to the equation, and then they started going to school, I kind of go over the first month, six weeks by myself. She'd come over for, you know, three quarters of the season, and then,

she would come home a good six to eight week early, right? So she wouldn't stay there the whole time. And that's kind of how it was the last six or seven years of my career. And then the last year, we had our fifth kid. And she was like, I'm done. Like, this is difficult. I'm done. And I was like, well, I basically called her bluff.

I was like, I want to play one more year. And I'm like assuming she would come over. And she's like, you know what I'm done. I'll come out for, you know, the month of the second. I'll take these kids out of school. So that my last year, which was in the Middle East, UAE, I was out there by myself, except for that month of December. And that was like the hardest year because she's raising five kids on her own.

I'm out there by myself just living this like basketball bachelor life in terms of having zero responsibilities besides staying in shape and performing, right? And so I was like, I had two, I actually, the team wanted to sign two more years on the deal. and I told him I told him I can't do this anymore. And that's how I kind of fell into coaching. Okay, so here's the, there's a bunch of questions I have. How hard was it to keep up with the real world?

Like, you know, you were able to play in the Internet generation. You know, like just when I was, like when I was in Russia, I remember Rusty Leroux was in Moscow and he would video chat. I forget what service he would use with his kids. back in North Carolina. And, you know, but it was still dial-up days. And I remember, like, Israel was cool because you could still watch ESPN

and you could most of the events. But like, like, there's two years there when I was playing where I have no idea what happened in college hoop and there's a bunch of NBA stuff. I don't know anything about. Forget about football, like nothing. And it's one of the reasons that I quit playing because I got a chance in the broadcasting industry.

And I was like, if I stay too long, I won't, I'll have this like void in my memory bank that I don't know what people were talking about. How did you keep up with the real, forget about it, and then, and then I want to get to parenting, how did you keep up with the real world? Yeah, so, like I said, I didn't watch any

college basketball or any NBA, right? Just maybe overseas, it might show a gamer here, but I didn't watch, like, everyone talks about Carmelo Anthony and Syracuse. I have never seen, I never saw Carmelo Anthony play in college, right? Me either.

You got to go back in us. Like, exactly, right? So my first couple years was kind of dial up internet, and then, you know, the whole, what was it? I mean, Wi-Fi wasn't even around. You still had to connect DSL, and then eventually there was Wi-Fi towards anima-crow. And I would try, I got different things like sling blocks,

and I got different things. Honestly, it was just one of the Twitter finally came out, but it wasn't that big of an application to use. So really, I would just kind of talk to my friends and family back home through texting or instant messaging. or emailing, and they would kind of, they honestly would give me kind of recap. I would go on ESPN.com,

and I'd try to watch all the highlights from the night before, right? I try to go on YouTube, but there were certain countries. Sometimes YouTube you couldn't get on. And so I try to go YouTube and watch different things, but I was really out of it. Like, even my own water like Utah, I didn't even know some of the players,

you know, I go back in summer, I'd say, hey, who was this guy? I have no idea. I couldn't keep off. And so you're just kind of out of it, and you're in your own world. Like, you really are. How did you?

The league you're playing on. How did you parent? When they were gone, I would, we had, what was it, Skype. I would Skype with them when they'd be out. When they'd be over back here in the States, I would Skype with them probably every day or every couple days. I would do that. So that was basically my, I mean, I missed the birth of my second born.

I was in Puerto Rico and my wife went into preterm because she was going to fly out, but she went into preterm, and so she stayed in Salt Lake, and it was an April Fool's baby, And so I actually thought she was joking when she sent a text. They said, I'm going on his labor. I didn't even believe her. But then her mom had called me and been like, hey, she's really going to have this. And so that's kind of like that's just a small little story of like the life that you just live to be able to play this game, which I still loved and had a lot to give. Like this game I had so much more to give and I wasn't done.

But that's just kind of the way it was. I would do Skype. I would call them. I'd send emails. I'd send pictures and do the best they could. Now when they were there, right? my wife was really good about taking care of the kids,

having them in the house, bringing them to games because, you know, European gyms are they're so loud so that kids had the headphones on. So my kids literally grew up in arenas and in gyms

all over the world when they were with me for those five, six, seven months of the year. They grew up, they grew up in arena. Give me the best food

that you, I mean, like, listen, you travel literally all over the world. Yeah. Give me something that you tried that to this day you still love

and tell people. about? So, Turkish food is probably my favorite. I love their donnaires, their kebob, the thing they got on that little spinner rocisserie thing, but it's right side up. But there's like this kind of pasta and Greek yogurt, and they call it Iskender, I Ska, N-D-E-R, it's called Ischendare meat, which I think it's probably a form of I think it's lamb, but it's by far the best meal.

If you have like a teammate's wife, prepare it, it's unbelievable. I would have it three times a week out there. In fact, I coached the kid this last year, Utah Valley, who was from Istanbul, and I would talk about, like, hey, like, you got one of these days, you got to make me some Iskender. If your mom comes in town, like, you got to do that. That was my favorite food. He's just like, that is like a Turkish, that is a Turkish, like, delicacy there. So, Iskinder, who is my favorite.

You never tried Salah, or Sala in Ukraine, did you? No, I didn't go outside the box too much of Ukraine. Or Mediterranean food is not bad too. But in Ukraine, strictly like kilbasta steak, things like that. I stuff with that. Yeah, so Sala is, it's like uncooked pig fats like bacon, but only, I think it's all fat, and it's like super, super seasoned. And we had a couple Ukrainian guys on my team in Russia, and the Russian guys used to mess with them,

you know, like when they'd make shots, they'd like, oh, blet, you must be eating Salo. You must be in Salo. blet, which blet is bitch, and they would say, they would throw in blet at the end of every sentence. You eat salo blet. What's the matter with you, blet? Shoot the ball, blet, right? Like every sentence.

Anyway, so you mention it to your Ukraine dudes. All right, what is the, give me the best, like, crazy playing basketball overseas story to somebody who has never lived that lifestyle. On the, on the court or off, because off is probably the most interesting, crazy stuff. Go. go either.

Give me one of each. Off the court. Off the court. So I'm in Ukraine, right? My wife's seven and a half months pregnant with our third. And we're trying to find a hospital, right, that she feels comfortable. She flies over there and trying to feel comfortable. And so I end up, she's ended up really, really uncomfortable.

It's not working out with the team. So I go to the management. I'm like, hey, listen, just pay my last month. Release me. Let me go over Turkey. There's a team that wants you over there. it's like for a coach's depth, I already know about the same amount of money.

My wife's comfortable in Turkey. She knows, she knows a wife over there is going to take care of her, and she'd come full of hospitals, right? Because we'd live there before. She'd have possible. So it didn't release me. They owe me a ton of money for this buyout because they agreed to buy me out too.

And so... I mean, like, listen, what's a ton of money to be owed? They make sure I'm at like $30,000, $25,000, $30,000 in cash. Okay. And for me to leave, for me to just kind of walk away. And so I know, and I've got to go to this church team, I've got to report in Turkey in 48 hours or it's not going to work, right? I got a report in 48 hours or they're not going to sign me. So I have to get released and collect this money in cash because I know if I go over there, they're not going to pay me, right?

They're just not going to pay me. And so I go over there and my wife's packing up the house. I get the money last minute. We fly over Turkey, hold two kids, dog. we find a hospital now she's going to have this baby in Turkey so she's so she's my wife's going to have to go to Turkey, find the right hospital

she's having this baby, it's Islamic country so I'm not supposed to be in there to give me permission to be in there okay the doctor is smoking in the hallway before you're delivering baby I have to like shield this doctor I have to shield this I have to shield this doctor

off because I don't want my wife to see it okay I don't want to see her smoking they have the baby they she has a chin having the baby there. They don't, like they don't have any diapers. They don't have any clothes.

They don't have anything. So I got to run back and go get it. They don't have any babies for a baby in a hospital? No. It's like bring your own everything. It's bring your own everything. Right? And so I have the,

she has the baby. I got to go pay for it. I'm not insured like, you know, maternity and all these different things. I'm not insured. So I go up there and pay it. And I'm like, hey, can I spread this out over a couple credit cards?

They're like, sure. and then it ends up being like $230 for everything. Ends of being like $230 for everything. So my wife still have that baby. And at the words, my wife has to get a tetanus shot because she's like, hey, not everything might be sterile. So just in case, let's give you this tetan shot. That's amazing.

I'll give you a quick Russian hospital story, okay? So I land in Russia and I've been playing in Salina, Kansas, for like two weeks in the IBA to kind of get in shape for Russia. So they had offered me a contract, but they wanted me to work out with them. The team's gone on a road trip, and they're coming back in a couple days. So they worked me out by myself.

Like literally, they don't have, this team was, we won the Russian League and won our European League, but they didn't have a junior team, really, to speak of. So I'm like alone in a gym for two hours, for an hour and a half in the morning and two hours in the evening. And they're just like coming up with drills for me to do. I mean, it was crazy.

Right. Like, they were like, How many threes must you make in a minute? I was like, I don't know, feed me. Let's say it. Like, okay, go. And I was like, wait, there's nobody feed me. Like, no, we want you.

So, like, for conditioning, I list, like, how many threes you can make in a minute? And then you take a minute off and then you do it again. And you take a minute off and they do it again. I'm like, exhausted. I'm eating terribly. I'm not sleeping. Anyway. So they're like, they want me to sign this contract.

They don't want me to send to my agent. They want me to like, it's in Russian. I'm like, I'm not going to sign anything in fucking Russian. So anyway, they're like, you have, you must have. You must have go to physical. So I go to some hospital in Perm Russia. And it was like one of these things where, I mean, it looked like out of the 1960s Russia, right? Everything's gray or like some weird, like greenish color walls.

And you go into one room and they like check your knees. And like they have you like bend down and bend over and they work on your knees. And then you go to another one and they check your back and they x-ray your back. And they go to another one and they check. your hearing, you know, and they get another one, they check your eyes. So the last one I go into, like, the last one I go into is like a dentist. So I go in and they like have me open up and the lady comes in and she's like looking at my teeth and she's got all gold uppers and all gold lowers. And I go, I'm good. My teeth are good. No thanks. No, no, no, no, no specieba. No,

no, no thank you. No thank you. No, thank you. Oh, man. I mean, do you remember Paul Shirley, Iowa State? I'm sure. Of course. Yeah, he's that book, right? Yeah, that book, that book, like anyone who goes overseas, like, I'm telling they talk about it. I'm like, do you got to read Paul Shirley's book?

And it's a different era, of course, the generation. There's probably so much more things. But that book is fantastic because I was probably on my seventh or eight year over there, and I'm like laughing the old time because we all had these similar stories as players doing with coaches or people in the city and the travel and the agents and all of the things. And they're just like, it's just a reminder of how, like, how crazy is. And like, you have to really love this game to make a career over in Europe. You have to love it.

No, you'll get people, Chris, you know this. You'll get people who tell like, oh, well, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'll just go overseas. Like, do you have any idea? You have any, like, you've got to change every part about your life. You're playing for people who have no respect for your upbringing. They don't care, right? Yeah. They don't care.

And you have no idea if you're, you're, you're one. You're one-year commodity. One-year commodity. They don't care about your health the next year. And in all honesty, like, they don't even, the contracts don't mean anything to most of those people. Like, what are you going to do? No. Right?

Yeah. So, I mean, it's an amazing thing that you have to do. Okay, what about playing? Because I do think that there's a ton of things we've taken from them. There's some shit they do that's weird. Like, I still don't understand the wrist stretch thing they do or the knee, roll around your knee stretch thing that they do. Yeah. I don't understand.

Soccer warm up. It's soccer ones. They have the soccer mentality, right? So the way they, like, we would do these tempo runs for the first 10 minutes of practice around the court. And I'm like, come on. Like, we're not soccer players, right?

We're basketball players. Like, we don't need to want the same way a soccer team does by running around the field. I would have to spend that for five minutes. You run a certain way and then counterclockwise the last five minutes. And so they would do that, like you said, that knee stretch.

I think it's, you know, it's just a different mentality over there. And they love their two days, right? You always come in the morning, either going to shoot or lift, and then come back in the evening. and you're not practice. So, like, I always told people, like, if you're not in the Euro League or Euro Cup,

or you're just in a domestic league, like, you're paid to practice, like, what, 10, sometimes 11 times a week, and then you play one game a week. Like, you have to love this game. And your wife better be supportive if you're married, and she's going to go over there. Because it's not for spouses. Some countries are, but for the most part, it's just not. You got to love this game. No, no, it's it.

And in fairness, it's a job. and they don't care. And most other jobs don't care either. I think people in the States care a little bit more than they do otherwise. But it's fat. Okay, so you decide to go into coaching. Yeah. And here's the funny thing about Mark Pope who you work for.

He can attest to this story. So he, and I think, I don't know if he still has it. Does he still have the same cell phone number? Well, it's four years old now. I do know that. Okay. So four years ago, go back before that.

When he was at BYU, they gave him Dave Rice's cell phone. Like the same number. Okay? So for Dave Rice's first couple years at UNLV, I don't know if I saved Dave's new one or his old one, but I did a ton of UNLV games. Like at one year,

I did 13 UNLV games. And I'm telling you, like, ask Pope, I would like text him like, hey, can we grab coffee? And he would text me like, I don't drink coffee. I'm like, yeah, you do you're not Mormon he's like yes I am and he's like mess with me I was like what are you talking about like I know you're not Mormon like yes I am I'm arguing like dude I'm outside your office why like this is Mark Pope what are you talking about like oh shoot I didn't know and he would and for

whatever reason like I don't know why maybe I just never deleted it or sometimes but his but rice's number became his number and even when he was at Washington right he'd still I think he still kept the same number I don't remember who was where but it's actually so what was the decision like to get into coaching? So I was overseas my last year. I knew it was going to be my last year, and a buddy of mine was his name is Phil Colin. He's now with the Spurs front office.

But Phil was my teammate at Utah and was the director of basketball, assistant director of basketball office position at Utah. So I kind of messaged him on emails like, hey, I've still got like five classes before I graduate. I actually never got my degree.

And so I had mess with like, hey, can I come work some camps? You can throw me some classes. is I'm actually going to do this. I'm going to finish. I'm going to get my degree. I'm so close. I'm retiring.

I'm done. Get a job. I'd love for some plus. And so he calls, he's like, hey, we can actually pay for it if you'll be kind of an undergrad student coach. It's kind of this weird little loophole where you're not,

it's not quite a grad assistant because you're not doing your master's, but we'll pay for it. And we get the bonus APR point. You know, so he's like, it's a win-win for us. I'm like, yeah, sure. What do you need from me, though?

If you're going to pay for it and I can work cancer, and what do you need for me? He's like, well, coaches is going to have you kind of be a student coach and you'll be on the scout team or, you know, might have you kind of be just liaison between players and staff. And I've always kind of wanted to get into coaching because I've always, I've enjoyed being around it and I love the game. So I thought this was a good way to see if I really wanted to do this.

Fell in love with it. Of course, it's the Lone Wright's first year and Utah's had their best year, you know, since, you know, five or six years ago since the boiling era. So I loved it, was around it, and I was like, I want to do this. So talking to some guys and staff, like, help, me out, what do I need to do? Like, I'll do whatever. I'll volunteer. So I kind of worked my way as a student assistant to Indian Hills County College, which is a big time junior college out there in Iowa, and was hired there full-time. And then while on the road and while recruiting, you get to know

all these coaches. This is what you do, right? You network and Mark Pope gets the job in Utah Valley, and I had a decent relationship with him. And I just cold call. I'm like, all of his coaches do as we're networking. I was like, hey, I don't know what you think about your staff. This is what I bring the table. I'd love to do it. I'm all in. So he interviewed me, he interviewed it at the final four and ended up working out. Then I'm there at Utah Valley for four years. I've learned so much, you know, learn so much from him. And kind of now, you know, we're lucky enough to still stay on staff with him.

But that's kind of, it was kind of one of those things where it's like, I want to do this. How do I do it? And someone in my position, right, as a former player, sometimes there's a stigma of big, I can't coach, and former players just expect to have whatever. Or I was like, no, I'll do whatever. If I got to volunteer, if I got to go junior college, I just want to coach. I just want to be around these kids and learn.

And so that was kind of my path six years ago. And now, you know, I am where I am, which is, this is the coach now, BYU. That's amazing. How Mormon were you when you were traveling? Wait, say that again. Say that again. I don't want to get you in trouble, BYU. Like, how Mormon, like.

No, no, no. I mean, like, you know, in terms of what you're eating, church on Sundays, you know, like, like how Mormon how, huh? I'm a very active member of the Mormon church. Like I go to church on Sundays,

I have a temple recommend, I go to the temple. I just at the temple a couple a couple a few weeks ago. So I'm a very active member. Don't drink coffee,

don't drink alcohol. Same with that. Like the honor code for me at BYU is my lifestyle. I don't need to sign the honor code. Other than I got to shave a little bit more now. I got to keep clean shaving

where before I might go four or five days without shaving. But, yeah, like, uh, Wait, so you got to, I didn't know that was part of the honor code. You have to shave every day?

Yeah, I think I'm pretty sure you got to be clean shaved. You know, every couple days you got shaved, make sure it's no scruff and beard. So, yeah, that is, that is part of the art code. So, yeah, so that was the only one maybe I had to kind of change my lifestyle a little bit with that. Because, you know, I might go like four, five or six days. Just not, just not shaving because I've never been asked to do it, right? I never actually held a job where they really cared about it or you need to be clean cut in terms of that part.

So that's the only change I've made in my lifestyle is I shave every day. Other than that, though, it's been such an easy, in a fun transition because I live that lifestyle. How do you convince a non-Morman kid to come play at BYU where there's no drinking, there's no smoking, you've got to be clean-shaven, and there's going to be no sex during their time in college? So I think you have to find the right kids, and you've got to find the right kids. And what we do is like, hey, we're not about like, don't, we try not, there's nothing negative about it. We try to say, we want to find a kid that will embrace it. Kids don't want to embrace the standards we set, right, the reputation that we want these kids to have.

We want these kids to be all in on just being a student athlete. And, like, listen, there's things that do with BYU, and you're going to have great relationships with not just your fellow teammates and other athletes from football and things like that. But you're going to find other students you're going to go along with. There's some fun things to do here. in college. There's a lot of, there's something like 30,000 student body. But my thing is, I'm more of like I feel BYU, like the history, right? The Marriott Center is fitting 19,000. The Dove-Cc's going against Gonzaga and the St. Mary's, our preseason schedule,

playing in Maui. You know, this summer we're taking the European tour. And our style play, what Kyle Self-Cote's Pope, what he's done in terms of transfers or in terms of high school kids and how he developed them. Our staff, all these kids want to be pros, we've got two guys. guys on our staff that have a combined 20 years professional experience at all levels you know and we have

um so it's what it's more of I try to sell those things and BYU you the atmosphere the history jimmer Gany Ainsh brandon Davies is one of the best men he was just named first team all year league overseas today like I sell that and I try to get these guys to

understand if they're all in on playing ball and working on their game and being around other guys who are about that well as well and they're going to fit in just nicely. If these kids don't, and they don't want to buy in, and they don't want to follow the standard, then those aren't the kids that we should be recruiting to BYU, right?

And we find that out pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's going to be amazing. Any chance Yoli comes back? I don't know. He's such a talent. He's so talented. I mean, obviously, he's done so much with BYU the last few years.

I don't know. Coach Pope has been working really hard. to try to educate him as best he can about the whole process, especially for coach, right? Coach was a late second round pick in the NBA draft and somehow fought and clawed his way into contract after contract year by year, right? So what better coach to talk to, right, in terms of how he made it in the NBA? And so I don't know.

I think the key, I think, you know, all these kids are not just Yoli, even if they're projected late second or not. Their whole thing is, like we talked about, I'm going to go play professionally overseas or somewhere. I'm going to play somewhere, whether it's the two-way, whether it's the G-League, whether it's overseas. It's hard, man. It's really hard.

It's really, really, really hard. Everybody's, you like it? It's like the overseas thing, the G-League thing, everybody thinks, like, okay. Or you could come back, you average 21 this year. You could average 25 and have a jimmer-like season. Last thing, and this is important, you mentioned the big guy thing. Like there have been some great big guys as coaches.

Phil Jackson, of course, is a big guy. Really, coaches are former point guards, right? It's like managers are usually catchers and point guards. So we're seeing the game. Give me something about Pope that he does. And you played for, you played for, I mean, I'd love to have another pod and try and have you name every coach you've ever played for. That would be an amazing test of your memory.

Yeah. Yeah. Something he does that you've never seen done before. I've never played or worked for a coach that values the relationship with his players. Like he builds, and you know he went to medical school, right? And so maybe it's this like patient doctor thing that he has or just has in him, even though he dropped out after three years. He develops these relations with these kids, whether he's recruiting him or he's got them,

like they're on his roster, better than anyone I've ever seen. Like, they're always in his office. He's watching film with them. He's on the court with him. He's talking to him on the sideline. And these kids, like, are, they soak everything up. He just has a way, whether you're from Salt Lake City, Utah, from a Mormon family, whether you're from the inner city of Minnesota with no family, right?

And you're just broken home. Whether you're a European kid, he finds, like, his whole thing is, like, I want to get these kids to, I want to know how these kids tick, and I want to know what makes them talk. And he's better than anybody that I've been around. I know there's really good coaches out that I do. But at the end of the day, like the relationships, he builds with these players and these recruits and how he cultivates them

and spends time with them and genuinely cares about every little detail of their life is amazing. And it's rubbed off on me where with the hours and the rules we're allowed to spend with them, we're constantly doing that. We're constantly having them. We want the guys to come up to our office and talk to them. We want these guys to come in and watch them. We want these guys to get off the gun or put the cones away.

Let us work you out. Let us do stuff. Let us be on the court with you, right? And that's why all his whole staff are former players. Nick Robinson, Stanford, myself, Cody Figure, worked for Majeris as a head manager. We're going to be a walk-in, but decided he wanted to get in coaching. So he was a manager in Utah because he wants those players.

He wants us coaches on the court with these players. And that's why I think he's good at a lot of things, right? But I think that one, if I'm just talking about one, that's the one. I think that he's better than anybody. Awesome stuff. Well, listen, I'm glad that your family doesn't have to move. I'm happy for the success at the end of the day. We know each other for a long, long, long time.

Yeah. And I really appreciate spending some time. We'll hang out some this summer on the circuit. In the meantime, get back to work because I'm sure at some point, Mark Pope's can be like, hey, why have you been on the phone for an hour and a half with a guy? Yeah, it would be all right. I'll just have recruiting. Coach recruiting here.

No, I appreciate you having me on. It's always fun. I love talking, I love listening to stuff, and love following you. So it was cool to come on. I appreciate it. CB, my man, thanks for joining us. Take, Doug. My thanks to Chris Burgess and my thanks to basketball.

How good has basketball been recently? All right. We'll react to all the results. Wait to hear next week's guest. Thanks for downloading, subscribing, and rating. Don't forget to tune into the Doug Gottlieb show. Weekdays, 3-6. Eastern 12 to 3 Pacific. You can also catch us on Sirius 217 XM203.

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