The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - Markelle Fultz isn’t close to fixed; Guest Barstool’s Bobby Reagan on college basketball FBI scandal and trial; St. Mary’s Head Coach Randy Bennett on building a big-time small school program

Episode Date: October 18, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as a TV analyst and radio host. Join us this week as Doug explains why the Sixers have handled Markelle Fultz's rehab all wrong. He also discusses the NCAA FBI scandal and trial with guest Barstool Hoops Writer Bobby Reagan, and is joined by longtime St. Mary's Head Coach Randy Bennett on building a big time program at a small school. Follow Doug on Twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions, about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart women's

sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multimillion dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last. Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. You're listening to All Ball. Talk a lot of college basketball upcoming. Bobby Regan will join us from Barstool Sports and an incredible, incredible coach. Randy Bennett, head coach of St. Mary's. We're going to ask him, has he ever paid a player?

They were on NCAA probation, or he actually was suspended for a couple of games as a head coach. Well, ask him, has he ever paid a player? I'll ask him. Plus, how they got into Australia and how he turned around a two-win program to a juggernaut in Maraga, California. By the way, make sure you listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily, three to eastern time, 12 to 3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio.com, the IHeartRadio app. Give you some quick thoughts on the NBA as the NBA season has tip. off already. I'm like anybody else. We talked about LeBron James. You can listen to that podcast.

It should be in your queue if you're already listening to the All Ball podcast. I watched last night, and this is being recorded on a Wednesday. We drop on a Thursday. So I watched the Sixers first game. I'm not surprised that the Celtics were that much better than the Sixers. And the Celtics are going to get better because Gordon Hayward looked rusty and frankly, Kyrie looked rusty. But I was interested to see the Markle Foltz thing. If you know anything about my career, you're like, that guy couldn't shoot. If you watch me shoot a basketball, you're like, that doesn't make any sense. The mental side to shooting is like the mental side to pitching the Rick and Keel thing.

And I'll tell you, I think the Sixers have handled this all wrong. I think he should have played in Summer League. So he had game action as he's working through whatever sort of therapy he needs. He didn't want to look at a jump shot. It still has a bit of a hitch. And it's really, really hard to fix on the fly. and unless it gets fixed, it's going to kill his career.

Because he's just, his game is not built. Like, Rondo's never been able to shoot and has slowly gotten better, but Rondo knows how to play without a jump shot. There's an art to it. Even T.J. McConnell, who's their backup point guard, like T.J. almost never

shoots an open deep three. Instead, he gets to his mid-range, gets to his spots where he can make shots. But basically, he plays without looking, but he's played a substantial chunk of his career without looking to be a score. Mark Kel Fulton's entire game was built around being a scoring guard. If you take away the jump shot, it makes you one-dimensional, and he's not really comfortable doing it. By my estimation, the best way to break that is I played for a guy named MazTrak, who's currently an assistant coach in the NBA, I believe with the Wizards.

And Maz was my coach in Phoenix in the ABA. And he did what my dad did when he coached me some when we went on tour teams, which is if you're open, you turn down an open jump shot and you force something bad, you come out of the game. It's the opposite of how you handle guys that shoot too much, right? Where you take them out when they take a bad shot, when you don't take an open rhythm jump shot, out you come. Out you come.

Because you have to eliminate the fear of missing or the fear of ramification for missing. And I felt like for me, that's the way to do it. But you've got to do it in game action. More to come on the NBA. But let's get you to the college game and to the FBI investigation and FBI court testimony that's come out recently. Let's talk about the trial, which has been kind of off-discussed on Twitter and several writers have written about it, as well as kind of wet your appetite, get ready for what's going to be another weird college basketball season. We'll discuss why it's weird and also why it's interesting. Bobby Regan joins us.

He writes for Barstool. You follow him on Twitter at Barstool Riggs. That's at Barstool Riggs. R-E-A-G-S. And Bobby, I saw you wrote a piece on this, I think earlier today. And at the day of this All Ball podcast, it's on a Wednesday. What's your reaction to the latest on this trial, which now all of a sudden names like Zion Williamson and schools like Kansas are kind of getting thrown into the fray.

Yeah, I think out of, I think out of all the programs that have been implicated in this whole thing, Kansas looks the worse with the trial, right? I mean, it started with Gassanola saying, you know, self and the staff didn't know. That was his first day on the stand, I believe. and then there's text messages that kind of contradict that. You have the rumor. I guess you want to call it a rumor. I don't know because we didn't hear the whole conversation because the judge didn't allow it into evidence that Town said,

self-assistent said that they were willing to do whatever for Zion. Kansas just right now, I think out of everything looks the worst, which I wouldn't have believed, I guess, heading into it, with, you know, everything that happened at Louisville and the other schools listed there. But Kansas, man, I don't know. It just doesn't sound like it's the best thing going for it. I want to circle back to Kansas in a second, but your piece also dealt with the fact that Mike Shoshchewski said,

we've never lost a recruit to somebody, you know, because somebody bought him, because somebody's cheating. And he really is, basically he and Roy Williams, like, I had no idea this stuff was going on. I had no idea. And then, you know, part of the Kansas thing is where Zion Williamson's name gets brought up and what he desired. And the obvious, well, look, if Kansas was willing to pay up to do whatever to get him and he ends up going to Duke, well, doesn't that make the assumption that Duke wanted to do whatever to get him? Yeah, especially the fact that those stories kind of broke, what, four hours apart from him?

other herself doesn't look the best. I just didn't look the way both Shoshchewski and Roy Williams. I think you tweeted out this morning that, hey, you can say that we're clean and you didn't realize the, I guess, depth of what everything was going on is. But don't pretend like it's not happening. I think everybody, especially when you're Shishatky and Williams, and you've been around for what, a combined 70 years or so in college basketball. The idea that Duke has never lost a player because somebody's bought him, that's laughable. The idea that, like, look, you got Marvin Bagley in your team, and maybe you didn't know all the details of it, but everybody knows his dad was legally being paid by Nike.

So they found kind of their own legal loophole, and not every one of your guys found a legal loophole. And even if you said, even you came out and said, hey, look, we know this is going on, and our way of handling it is, look, we think the ultimate payment is you play. for Duke and it pays you you know, six, sevenfold after you get done playing. Like, even if you said that, but to act like you had no idea and this has no effect in your program,

like, now, now it's hard to take anything you say seriously. It just came off disingenuous. For both Shushetsky and Roy, it just didn't sound like, they almost sounded entitled. Like, this would never happen here because we don't

need it so. But it's like, well, you know it's still going on. Like you said, at least say, like, hey, we don't, we feel we don't need to, you know, go to the extremes that other programs are because you have the alliance to Duke, give the Duke background. It helps if you don't make it in the pros. Something like that would at least make it sound more believable or real. I just, I wasn't impressed with Bolshe-Sachia and Roy's answers. I'll say this, that there is some plausible deniability with Bill's self because apparently one conversation with Gassinola is inaudible, and who knows if there's actual figures discussed. but there's nothing there's nothing in there that I've seen that says anything about money.

It's more about the old getting it done term, right? Which we all think we know what it means, but we don't know we know. And it's not what you know. It's not what you know. It's what you can prove. But I am interested in, like self-just inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. They've won, I believe, 70 million consecutive Big 12 titles. And he's always, and he's a. close friend of mine, and he's always told me, hey, you know, there are years in which you're down years,

you try and win 25 games, and there's, you know, once every three or four years, you've got a legit shot to win it. This feels like a year in which they have a legit shot to win it. What do you think happens at Kansas? I mean, the first thing is they can't play Sylvia DeSusa, right? Based on everything that said with, he just seems like the one that you can't play. If they were careful with Billy Preston last year, I don't know how they can play Sylvia D'Souza this year. When we've already seen the NCAA strip Louisville of a title, you know, that could be the possible precedent set for a school like Kansas, who is a favorite to win the title this year?

I think that's the first step is you can't play Sylvia to Susa. What about self and what about his staff? I don't know. I'm completely dumbfounded by this because there isn't a precedent in terms of a guy like self. where, like you mentioned, there's plausible deniability. If they can prove what self now, I think you have to let them coach this year. We force the NCAA to make a ruling. I think that's the way I would go if I was in charge of Kansas' athletic department.

Oh, no question. You have a new athletic director, and he's more powerful than it. And this is one of those. Others will take the bullet for Bill's self, but it does expose some things. I guess the last question, and I do, I want to do. Dick can get the season. Bobby Regan joining us from Barstool Sports. He covers college basketball. Does an outstanding job follow him on Twitter. Read his work as well. Is, do you think the NCAA, like, I've had high-powered college coaches tell me,

like, look, I think we are looking to see how much it would clean it up, but now you start mentioning names like Kansas and Duke and LSU and there will be other big names. How much do they really want, did them, do they want to purge themselves of these big names? coaches, will the NCAA actually do anything about so many of these kids, so many of these stories? How do you think it ultimately ends? I think there's going to be a medium. Like you said, the NCAA, let's be honest, they're in the business model, right? Like, they're around for a reason. They've been around for a reason. It's still a business to a degree, and you have to protect your assets. And your assets are,

like you mentioned, Kansas, Duke, along with some other schools that haven't been implicated yet, but we don't no, you know, maybe we didn't think Duke was going to be implicated at the beginning to get them and look where they are now. So I think you see them punish the smaller schools, the ones that are obvious, and to the lesser and to the higher degree, you'll see sanctions against coaches, show clauses, and things of that effect. But I think they're going to be very cautious with how they attack the Kansas and Dukes of the world.

I think they need concrete evidence to go after them and either, you know, vacate a season, they've got a player, sanction a coach, whatever it might be. I think it's going to fall somewhere in line with that just because we don't know what the NCAA knows. We don't know what's going to be released to the NCAA. They still have to do their portion of the investigation despite the new rule that they can use what's set in court

and everything like that to hand down sanctions. They still need to find out the whole context of everything and what coaches knew what, what players accepted, So I think it can be a long process even after all the court system is done. And I think it's going to be somewhere in the medium. But we're not going to see a complete purge, but there are going to be teams and programs that we know in power conferences affected. All right. Let's get to this year.

On paper, on paper, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Gonzaga look like their heads and tails above others, right? Obviously, Arizona's in rebuild mode. I think UCLA somewhere between, you know, they didn't get everybody that they wanted back, and they did lose Holiday, who was their best player from last year and did everything. But overall, talent-wise, you know, Villanova, Villanova is going to be very talented, but they're going to have a completely new starting lineup and try and carry over that culture that's allowed them to win two titles in three years. Xavier looks like a bit of a rebuild, even though their two best players, you know,

two of their best players are returning. give me your sense of somebody else outside of that big four that you feel like we could legitimately see contend for a national title I think everyone is glossing over Virginia they were I think the clear second best team in the country last year and they return I kind of correlated to this is my kind of my comparison is they remind me of the way people thought about Villanova heading into the 15-16 year because they kept losing in the second round kept losing the second round for four straight years

That, you lose a key guard, Darren Hilliard for Villanova, Devon Hall for Virginia. That was kind of like, okay, well, this is why they were able to do this. But then, you know, DeAndre Hunter is kind of at Josh Hart, the NBA player that people expect to break out year. You have the returning guards with Guy and Jerome. I think people are just glossing over Virginia because the lasting image is them losing the UMBC. This is a team that lost one game in the ACC last year, and it was in overtime.

I think they are absolutely in the same mold as that Villanova team that won the title where they were forgotten about kind of on the back end of the top 10 in the preseason but everyone kind of said well they're going to win the Big East, they'll win 30 games, they'll lose in the round of 30-tell. I think Virginia's up there with the rest of them in terms of teams that you should be considering the national title fair. It's a great point. I actually had a long discussion with Tony Bennett.

He told me he'd come on my pod here sometime before the season in which he said, hey for the first time ever, they knew they could be beaten by a team that went small. And then, of course, you lose Hunter, and that gets even more exposed when you've got to play two bigs instead of playing. But he said, look, look, we're going to evaluate ways in which we can evolve, still be us and evolve. I think that that happened with Jay Wright as well.

You know, they didn't play, they changed how they played in addition to the fact that they had veteran players and they had guys that the entire year, their focus was we're not going out in the second round. and if you remember that year, they dominated, I think, Iowa in round two. They just blew their doors off. And the rest was, and though they won a national championship on a buzzer shot, we also forget that they beat Oklahoma worse than anyone has ever been beaten in a final four.

Like, all of that energy kind of finally came to be in the NCAA term. That's that. They'd be the good Miami team pretty easily, too, and the Sweet 16. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a great point. Okay, give me one point. player that you're like, I can't wait to tell people about who they don't know about yet. It seems obvious, but it's the correct answer, Traymont Waters?

Do enough people know him? From LSU, who was originally going to Georgetown, who played high school basketball in Connecticut when I was up there? No, I don't think people know Trey Waters. I think he's a first team all-American. I think he's that good. The lazy comparison is kind of, he can do what Trey Young did with obviously the less volume of shots.

I think he's the one who, if you're looking for a power conference team that can surprise some people, I think it's him. I think I really like the LSU team. I think Traymont Water is, like I said. I think he is a CSU player the year and first team all-American. And then of course, Will Wade's one of the guys that got on tape talking talking to me. So Will Wade, Will Will Wade remain remain as head coach. It is LSU and people kind of chuckle like, really, this is like of all the times to get LSU. this is when you get LSU,

not when they have Shaq and Chris Jackson who became a MacMudab Duarouf and any of the other litany of players or the John Thompson era. Or the John Brady era when they had Strow Miles Swift and others. But yeah, I mean, once you got a guy on type, it's a fascinating thing.

Bobby, great stuff. I'm a fan of your work. Can't wait to have you back on the pod. And thanks for joining us on the All Ball podcast. Appreciate it, Doug. Let's go from the discussion about this scale. handle in college basketball and getting you ready for the season with a guy who he's been

in this business as a player and a coach, holy crap, for almost 40 years. My God, I had no idea he was this old. I mean, he's always kind of looked old, but now he actually is old. He's the head coach of St. Mary's. The only place he's ever been head coach. And what's crazy about it is, they won two games the year before he got there. His first year, they won nine. Since then, they had one 500 season, two 17 win seasons, and a 19 win season. Outside of that, it's been 25, 25, 28, 28, 25. All 20 plus win seasons, matter of fact, most of them, 27, 28 plus win seasons. He's 392 and 162 at Tiny St. Mary's in Maraga, California.

He's Randy Bennett. He joins us here on the All Ball podcast. I want to get to your current job and how you turn this thing into kind of like a juggernaut in Northern California. But let's start. You grew up, your dad,

was he always a junior college coach? No, he was, he worked his way up. He worked his way. He'd started out at JV. High School and then went to high school and then he went from high school to junior college assistant

for a few years and they became the head coach at Mesa Community College in Arizona. So, but you guys were always in, you always lived in Mesa kind of growing up because you went to high school and a junior college in Mesa. Right, right. No, I was born and raised it. The rest of my family was born in Indiana, and my dad played out there. So, anyhow, he moved out, and by the time I, you know, anything I can remember,

he was a high school varsity coach, and then he went to Mesa and did, that for a long time. He actually retired, and then he came back and coached high school just for fun. He was retired, and they didn't win the state championship at school called Gilbert, but he's been

there the whole time. He's been in the Phoenix area since, yeah, since I was born. What was it like playing? What was it like playing for your dad in junior college? You know, when you're going through it, you just going through it. Now, when I look back at it, it was

it was I'm sure it's a little tricky for him for me my first year I you know I was like eighth or ninth man so there there weren't there wasn't a lot of it was tough for me because I wasn't used to not playing and uh anyhow it was good it was really good for me as a coach because now I understand what guys that are eight or ninth or tenth man are going through and so it helped me but My sophomore year, we were good. Like our JC teams are really good. And my sophomore year I played,

and there was probably more pressure on him than. I didn't really feel it, though. Like, I didn't feel, I had a good teammates. I didn't feel like there was any animosity towards me being in there. And, yeah, I think my dad went over, you know, made sure he was careful. not to play me if I didn't deserve to.

And so, anyhow, at least that's my opinion. I don't know what those other guys thought. But it was good. Overall, it was good. I'm glad I did. When you coach your sons in A.U., what do you like? I mean, it's always got to be, because I've heard you coach him in A.A.U., which is really, really cool, right? And it's got to be great for the other kids.

Like, wow, Randy Bennett is coaching our team. how are you as a coach towards your kid? I would say I am definitely hard, for sure, I'm harder on them than I am on the other kids. So it's tricky, and you've got to be, it's hard. There were some interesting car rides home after games. Like, oh, I just, I want to, I still want to, I want to play right, play hard.

Usually it would be like an, like an, attitude type deal or just how they reacted to something. But I think it was good for them, but I think it was hard for them too. So as a dad, as a dad doing that, you learn that you're there, they can only see you as their dad. They can't separate it, dad and coach. And you kind of can as a dad, but they can't. So they get tired of hearing dad a little bit. And I've run across a lot of dads who've tried coaching their kids,

and they get to the same point. The kids kind of tune them out a little bit. No, no, listen. I just, I do twice a week. I have a big clinic that we do. And my son, he likes to, he's one of the younger kids there, but he likes to be a demonstrator. And I had to kick him out of practice yesterday because he wasn't listening to me.

He was just having fun and, you know, it was kind of being a jerk. and why are you getting so mad at me? And I was like, because you have to be, you got to be one and a half times everybody else. And I got to be on you more because if you act this way, how do you think everybody else is going to act? I'm fascinated by it. Randy Bennett joining me here in the All-Ball-Ball podcast.

All right, so you go to UC San Diego and play. This is back UCSD is D-3 back then, right? This before they moved up to D-2. Who's your coach? Tom Marshall. and we're actually in AI at the time. And then they went D3 later after the later, and then now they went D2,

and now they're going D1 in another year. So it was a great experience for me, great school academically, but some of my best friends, and to this day are guys I played with there. So we had great experience. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Now, he's a former player,

wasn't he? And he's like a, if I remember correctly, Like, was he a player in his own right? Is that the same Tom Marshall? No, Tom wasn't. When I went there, the head coach was John Block, and I had to redshirt that year because it transferred in there.

And he left that year, but John Block was a good NBA pro player, so he was around. But then Tom was his assistant, and I think he probably played a little high school, but that's about it. What was he like as a coach? He was just learning. He'd never been a head coach before. so he took over that job and all that stuff as a coach for me now and when I became a head coach

was helpful to me as far as all right this is you learn from your experiences right where you played right that's why that's why that's why I asked because so and that was a that was one of those deals is this guy's first job, and he's trying to learn, and he inherited this team. Anyhow, so he was learning, and he did, he was a great guy. We had great experiences. We could, you know, looking back on it, we probably could have done some things, players leadership-wise, and done a better job. Okay, so then you go and work for Hank Egan.

And when your first job was at USDA under Hank Egan, went on? Yes So take me through how you went from a junior college player playing for your dad then playing in a ball at UC San Diego to getting your, how did you get that job? I still had a year of school left And so...

How many years are in school? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you were in junior college for two years. You redshirted one year at UC San Diego. You played at least one of the year. How many years did it take you to finish? Like I said, I still had a number. another year to finish after I was done playing. So I went over to University of San Diego, which was, I really did.

Hank had recruited me a little bit of the Air Force, so I knew him. And went over there to, I volunteered like a volunteer assistant back then for that year. And it was eye-opening for me. Hank was a great offensive coach, great, great coach. So I spent a year working with him, and then I went to Idaho as a grad assistant with Tim Floyd when he first, that was his first head coaching job. And that was a great staff. You just learned so much early on in your career with Hank I did, and then went with Tim,

and our staff there was Kermit Davis, Larry Eustacey, and Tim Flores. but back then you don't know who they are. Like you're just all scrapping and trying to hustle to get as good as you can. And shoot, I mean, Kermit was 26. He didn't know yet. Larry was maybe 30. And Tim, he was 32 as his first job. So we were all trying to figure it out, but I learned so much in those first three years

between Hank and Tim and Larry and Kerman. up there. So those were great years. At that time, I didn't realize how valuable they were going to be to me down the road. And so I can't tell you how many times I go back to those early years when I'm trying to figure out things in basketball, especially when I got my first head coaching job at St. Mary's 18 years ago. Okay, so there's a couple of questions to come from it. One, how do you make ends meet? Like, how do you afford to be a grad, to be a volunteer assistant in San Diego?

How do you afford to be a grad assistant at Idaho? Like, how are you, where are you living? How are you paying your bills? What was it like? So that's the deal in this profession, which is kind of crazy in college coach. You kind of have to work your way up, do a volunteer year, do a grad assistant year, whatever you have to do to get in. And it's crazy.

You're talking about guys who can be pretty successful in a lot of other trades, and they're willing to go and make no money or even come out of pocket to get in this career with no guarantees that down the road it's going to make a payoff back. But anyhow, I was just living life, and I wanted to coach and love basketball. So when I was at San Diego, I was just paying for everything. I had to do it anyhow, for school. so there's no real option.

And so I wasn't making money. So where'd you live? I had to finish school in the other. And then when I went to Idaho, it was basically a scholarship, so they paid for. But did you like live in the dorms? Did you get an apartment? I didn't lose money. Did you get the dorms?

I lived an apartment on campus. Okay. In the dorm. And was there ever a thought? I mean, I guess your dad was a coach. Because some, you know, we had a Ron Ganada on, of course, your former assistant, and he volunteered for you. when he started. He's straight at a Swarthmore, right? He can go make six figures on Wall Street and

financial district if he wants. I just wonder if there was ever any pressure to like, hey, maybe you should just go and make, especially you finish up in Idaho, you got a master's degree. Should you go and actually make some money instead of chasing this basketball dream? You know, it was never even a thought to me. And I just, I knew what I loved doing. and the next step when you're done playing for me was was coaching and that's what I want to do so my dad knew enough to tell me hey if you want to coach division one then you need to get in division one don't go high school or junior college and then try and get back in later it's it's hard a day so he he I didn't know anything I was just this was my next step as far as

all right I'm done with college what am I going to do and I knew for a long time that I wanted to coach. So that's what I did. And you really, I really was, I was pretty naive to it. I hadn't been around Division I, in Arizona. And I just wasn't, I wasn't hip to how it all worked. And it probably until I was 30 where I figured out, all right, this is, this is what you've got to do if you're going to move up. Randy Bennett, join us.

Okay, so give me one thing. One thing from Hank Egan that you still do or use or implore upon your kids today? There's a lot of them, but I would say footwork when you're offensive when you catch the ball. He's a really good, I thought he's a really good offensive coach. And he's some of the fundamentals just as far as catch, turn in the face, bring up your right foot if you're a right hand or stuff like that. People go back and forth on it to this day. but I think you had it right and it's what we teach

and I think it really has a lot to do with how you shoot the ball and we shoot the ball pretty well and I think it goes back to that. But he was, it was, Hank's biggest deal to me. If you ask me one guy, a coach with in college that had the biggest effect on my coach,

and it would be Hank for sure, because I end up spending seven years with him. But his integrity was, was second than none. Like he just, he thought guys should act right and high character and, uh, even his coach,

he was tough. Like, he's tough on kids. He's, he was demanding on his coaches. I was lucky to work for him. I was really lucky to work for him early on in my career. And it helped me a lot as far as,

just he got it on the, he really got it on integrity and, uh, high character and, and being true to yourself, like, acting right. And, yeah, those impressions stuck. What about Tim Floyd? It was his first head coaching job.

Of course, he went on to, what, Louisiana Tech, and then obviously Iowa State, we played against him. They were great. And then he had a couple stops in the NBA as well as USC. One thing that you took from your time with Tim Floyd? A couple things. I think anybody knows, Tim, he really knew the profession. He'd been assistant for Don Haskins for maybe 11, 10 years, somewhere in there.

And he was pretty much doing all the recruiting at U-TIP at that time. So he knew the profession inside and out. I thought he was really true to this day. If I have a question on something like that in the profession, every once in a while, I'll shoot him call, see what he thinks. on that. Now, he really, he really understood that. So I thought he's good there, and then he was, he was a relentless worker, and just, he obviously was a good recruiter, but he was, he was a good coach for that age at that time. I mean, he'd been around Haskin, so he knew what he's,

doing. He knew what he was doing. All right, then you work for Lorenzo Romar at PEP and at St. Louis. One thing from Roe that that you still use. I would say just how good he is with people. If I picked one thing, that I thought Lorenzo was, he's really talented guy and a great human being as well. But I thought he's just really good with people, with the players, the coaches, he just made you feel good when you're around. He's in his tractor, but just really good with people. So in 2001, St. Mary's, they had been good. You know, Ernie had him going, and they went to the NCAA term.

He leaves, and Sivodemegas, you know, they win two games. He ends up getting fired. how'd you get the St. Mary's job? How'd that come to be? You're at what St. Louis at the time, and you guys had St. Louis pretty well rolling. How did you get the St. Mary's job? So, yeah, it was Dave Bullwinkle. Oh, it was Bill Winkle. I said Sylvie de Meas. It was Dave, Dave Boehinkle. So, yeah, four years after Ernie did, and they had some bad breaks, starting with Brad Millard.

Had the foot problem, right? His foot five times. Yeah. So, anyhow, how did I get the job? I was lucky. and that's bottom line. There was really down. They weren't paying a lot. And, yeah, I was whatever somehow. Did you interview in person?

I got some help from the people. Yeah. I mean, like, how'd you go about? I think, like, look, there's lots of basketball coaches listening this pod. You're like, how'd you get it? All right, so you're at St. Louis. What do you remember about how you're like,

St. Mary's just coming open. Dave Bowenkel loses. job. You knew the league because your time at San Diego and at Pepperdine, right? You know the West Coast because that's where you grew up and that's where you grew up in terms of recruiting. But how'd you go about, you know, get in front of somebody and where did you conduct your interview and what was your pitch? How'd you do it? So I was at a point in my career and I was at St. Louis and really was a West Coast guy. Lorenzo took the job at St. Louis. I was at Pepperdine. I kind of, you know, I was in San

Diego and they brought in a guy, they brought in Brad Holland, and then I was hoping, you know, I thought I had a chance to get that job. And then same thing, having a Pepperdine, and they brought him, then Brettikoff. And so that's what I was talking about earlier. Like, I didn't really figure out how it all worked until I was like 30. And I kind of got, not that I deserve the jobs and they picked very good candidates, but it kind of, Reality hit me. All right, wait a minute.

These jobs are hard to get. I got to figure out how you do this because I don't want to change professions and I don't want to be assist all my life. But I had gotten to a point and moved out at St. Louis with Lorenzo. When he took that job, I didn't really want to go. I just had no connection with the Midwest. Like I said, born and raised in the West. I had gone to college out there.

All my contacts were out there. And so I was ready to, I was very, to go take a JC job. I was right at that point and I thought I could get one in Arizona. And this St. Mary's job open and I'd been in the league a number of years, probably 14 years before that with San Diego and Pepperdine. Actually it'd be 12 years. So I had experience there and I knew the school, but I really didn't know, I didn't really know the St. Mary's job very well. It came open. I threw my name in there. Rick Majeris called for me,

helped me get in there as far as at least get, they knew who I was. And then I think because I was at St. Louis, we were in Conference USA at that time. I think the guy, the athletic director, Carl Klapp at the time at St. Mary's, thought that that was a pretty big deal, Conference USA, Cincinnati

was number one in the country, I think, the year before with Kenya Martin, all of them. So it was perceived as, hey, this is a, this is an assistant from a bigger conference. And they, I met, what happened, I met,

I met with them at the Final Four in Minneapolis, in the, in the, right by the swim pool and an indoor swim pool, people running, buying their swimsuits. I was like, this is kind of crazy. I didn't think

this is what the interview is going to be like, but I guess it, yeah, it went well, and then they brought me out to campus, and I think I was the last guy they brought in, and I really, I didn't, I didn't think I was getting a job. At that time,

I was like, well, whatever happens happens, I think it helped me actually, because I wasn't nervous at all for the interview. If it didn't happen, I was probably making more at St. Louis' assistant, whatever. So I came in there, and I think the fact that I'd be at University of San Diego and Pepperdine in the league, and I knew the league, I think that probably helped me a little bit as far

as on an interview, answering questions to what I thought, as far as what should happen to a school like this, it was very much like the University of San Diego when I was there. And so I had familiarity with that. I felt like it was pretty much the same job. And so it went well, and then I was sitting down there, one of the pumps tournaments like that next weekend. Actually, two days after I finished my interview, and they called me and said, hey, we take this job. There's some other things that happened in between there, but pretty much that was it. And I was like, guys, this is really happening.

So I was lucky, and I tell people that all the time that I had to get lucky. and I think most guys that get these jobs, they get a break, and fortunately I got one and the rest is history. All right, so you get the job and now you realize I'm going from St. Louis, where

you guys are going to the NCAA tournament, I think you had Larry Hughes as well, to a two-win team in a league that at the time was dominated by Pepperdine and Gonzaga. What was the program like when you took it over? There wasn't a lot of confidence in the players. That was the biggest thing

that I noticed right away. I think that happens. They'd won two games, year before, and, yeah, their confidence, they were beating up, just from losing. And I had, I'd been around that

a time or two when we took over programs, like when we took over, when I first went to San Diego, they were coming off a down year, and when I first went to Pepperine, and they were coming off the down year. So that was the major issue. We actually had some, there was actually some players there.

When I got there, the two leading scorers from that team said they were going to transfer. And I was like, I think we'll be all right with that. Either way, I just wanted guys who want to be with us at St. Mary's, and I gave everybody a fresh start. I didn't run anybody off. And I just told them, I said, I'm not even going to watch film. from you from last year. We're just going to start over and see what we can do.

And they were great. We had some guys that really bought in to this day when I, you know, a lot of good memories being at St. Mary's now. But to this day, that first year was really cool. Like just to try and we had to get them to believe. They had to believe in themselves. How do you do that? But how do you do that?

I think it starts with working. You just got to work. You got to know you paid the price. and if you work, you'll start seeing results. And then when you see results, I think it's a cycle. I think you'll back and you work harder. And then you see some more results. And then eventually they start thinking, hey, I'm not bad.

I can make these plays. We played in some games. Our first game, when I was in St. Mary's, we played a good UC Irvine team. They'd won 25 games a year before. and we were like up six in the last five or six minutes and we just it was crazy to me how we just had a a meltdown and it was a straight confidence issue they had not been in that position in a long time and i think what 21 they had 21 losses in a row extending from the year before so they just

they got nervous being in that spot so we had a lot of issues like that that just psychologically you have to get through. You got to teach them how to win. Like teaching a team, first you've got to teach them believe to themselves and you get to some other stuff and then like the final step is like teaching them how to win. One, you have to believe

you're going to win but then there's a physical like these are things that we have to do and then you have to like do it and then you have to like do it and then you kind of believe in it even more right? It's kind of the same process by which you believe in them you have to do in terms of as a team executing and winning games.

Fair? Very fair. And all those little steps, you forget they exist if you haven't dealt with them. Like, I hadn't dealt with that for a while, and I didn't realize how fragile guys could be. So those, it was different. The things we had to be work on then are totally different than the things we have to work on. Now we have to work on, hey, you're going to deal, you're going to have expectations all the time. and people are going to have your name circled before they play you each year.

So it's totally different, but it was great. I mean, they, God, those kids were, they're good. They had to fight through some tough stuff, and then we started getting some, we had some talent then, but we had to get older and more confident and better leadership and all that stuff. if I was a better coach that first year, we probably could have won, we won nine, we probably could have won 13 or 14.

And so, but as that happened, we were able to get better players and more of them. Daniel Kicker was the first, was the first big Aussie, right? Yes, he was the first,

he was our first all-league guy that we recruited. Okay, so how did you come, do you remember how you got Daniel I totally remember how we got Daniel kicker. Okay, go. We took my first year there.

We took Adam K-Porn in August, late August. He was like four days late for school. It was that late. And we had two scholarships at the time. I hadn't even seen play. K-Porn you hadn't seen play? I hadn't seen him. Saw him a little on video, but we just needed some guards.

It was hard to get guys. at that point. And this kid wanted to come over. He was looking at Division II school. And basically, it was like, first conversations. I said, you don't know me, I don't know you. You don't know much about this place, but we could use you. I think we'll get good in time.

Love to have you. You want to do this? And he said, sure. And that was that. And we had to, I mean, we had the house to get his visa, everything. straight, get him in school, but he's a really good student. Anyhow, he came. He was great.

He was as far as, yeah, he's way better on thought he'd be. And he told us about kicker. He said, I think I got a teammate that could maybe help us. That was kicker. And so that's how we found out about him. We recruited him. He liked Adam being at our school, helped. And then he liked our, he liked St. Mary.

He liked her. situation. He knew he's going to play a lot right away, but he was really humble and he was okay with not he didn't really like the recruitment. He didn't like

being stroked. That wasn't what his deal was. So he kind of, I think the assistant from Oregon at the time told me this is the worst basketball decision ever and he was probably I mean, knowing what he knew, he's

probably right, but it turned out, it turned out to be a great decision for him because they ended up being an all-time winning score at St. Mary's, but it's just, it's funny how those things work out. And that was, Kicker, when I look back, Kickert was a big piece and us turning this thing. And then, of course, you had Patty Mills. I remember when I came and spoke at your kickoff banquet when Deli was a freshman, and you're like, hey, that's my next great player and I was like really like he he looked like uh he kind of looked like team wolf he had so much hair right like he had just like like leg hair and he was kind of thick-legged and I was like I don't know and he kind of had a funky looking shot and like yeah you just got to trust me you just got to

watch him play for a while and I was like I don't I don't I don't know what's it like to coach all those because my again this is more outsider and any Aussie that I've played with or dealt with. They all seem like they just kind of got it figured out, right? Like they just, they play super hard. They're a little bit, they're like physical to the point of like, are they being dirty or they just, they don't mind it being

physical? They're like right on that edge, you know? And then after the game, it couldn't be better dudes. They all like to drink beer, it seems like, and have a good time. Is that, you've coached a lot of Australians. I know that I'm making assumptions about a bunch of kids I don't know about, but how

accurate did I nail the the Scand Report. Pretty accurate. I would say the one common denominator, most of them are tough. They're not all physically tough like that, but some of them are. They're just like everybody else.

But the one common denominator is they are great teammates. Like that is part of their culture. That's part of Australia. They are not, they're not into the, it's all about me deal. They're not even comfortable with like, hey, you're the man.

He just told Deli, hey, you're the next great player. He would not be comfortable with that conversation. He would change that conversation in a second. And they're Patty, too. And those guys, they are great ones. But to a man, their team spirit, being about the team, enjoying being part of a team, those things are, that's the one thing that everyone of those Australian kids has in common.

And they are, we've been, we've had 18 of them, 19 now. They, they're all great guys. Like, we have no issues with those guys. And they're really, they turn this thing into. Our program's obviously got a big, they're a big part of it as far as just the culture of our program and even our school and our community. So it's been a, it's been a cool story. Once again, I mean, it was kind of. It was kind of a fluke deal.

And then good things happened. So we doubled down, went back down there and brought some more in. Once Patty came, it really – because he was kind of the poster child for the youth basketball over there at that time. He played in the Nike Hoop Summit. And so everybody knew he was good. When he decided to come here, which was crazy that worked out the way it did, he really got under-recruited. But anyhow, when he came here...

Didn't you take him super early? Wasn't he... Didn't they play on a tour? I remember... Tell me if I'm wrong. I remember AIS, the Australian Institute of Sport. I remember them coming on a tour and playing, and you go in and seeing him and him committing to you early.

Am I misremembering? Am I remembering a different player? They did come on a tour and they came up to our schools. We met him early. We had gone on a tour over there and had seen him, seen their young guys. We played on that tour. but he funny story on him

like when he came on his visit he had two visits he took two visits and uh they're going to be Utah and St. Mary's and so he had a buddy over there named Steve

Way at Utah and so he's going to so he had an interest there obviously had some guys here that were from Australia but when he arrived at Utah he uh when he got off the plane

there coach at that time and said, hey, we just took a commitment from another kid this weekend. I think Patty came on Monday, and they took the commitment. The kid came in and committed on Sunday. So anyhow, that's how good a guy, Patty is. They said, hey, we can send you to St. Mary's right now, or you can just hang out with your buddy here for two days. It's up to you.

But we don't have a scholarship for you. He was the best. He said, nah, I'll just hang out here for a couple days and visit my boy. And so he did that and they came on our visit and we're pretty much the only school that was that it visited them. I got my own, I got my own, I got my own Utah stories that you might like. Okay, so I leave Notre Dame and I went to Golden West College. Tom McCluskey, my old high school coach, my first year, was the coach of Golden West. And so I'm like, I'm like, practice All-American.

and I helped him, I was like an assistant to him during the games. And it was an awesome experience. And, you know, I worked out with Marv Mernovich. I got my AA degree. Anyway, so Rick Majera starts recruiting me because Andre Miller was a Prop 48. And at the time, I think he was a junior. And so I was going to play with him for one year. And then I would have two years without Andre.

and so Rick Majeris, first he comes to Golden West Gym, and I practice against the JC team, and then afterwards, he and Jeff Judkins, they like, you want to stay and shoot a little bit? I was like, yeah, so literally, and Donnie Daniels walks in, so there's three assistant coaches and me, and they locked the doors to the gym, and they work me out for like an hour and a half, right?

Because his whole thing was like, I don't know if you can shoot, you know. And so he worked me out, and he's like, oh, you can play. and so he basically offered me a scholarship, and they were playing UC Irvine like the next day. So I go to watch, this is Keith Van Horn and Andre Miller, and they practice at UCI, and it was an unbelievable practice.

And I never, like here's my indelible moment in watching them practice. Two things I remember about Majoress practice. One was he would yell at him, he blast him. Oh, go, Van Horn, what the fuck are you doing?

Go two lines. And they would, whoever he would yell out would run over to the baseline. He's not looking. They'd touch the baseline. They'd sprint down and back was two lines. It'd sprint down and back and then hop back in the drill. It wasn't like everybody lines up.

He'd just like two lines, three lines, four, whatever. And they were like robots and they were sprinting their ass off because it was like, damn, if he turns around and I'm not doing it, I'm going to run all day. The second thing was he had like five walk-ons. And I thought walk-ons couldn't travel and I don't know how he did it. but you have five walk-ons that were the scout team and the guys that were in the rotation would sit in chairs and they had their notebooks opened up

they'd watch the scanner report and the walk-ons or whatever or the assistant coaches whoever was doing it would run through stuff then they'd come guard it then they'd go back and sit down like it was a work of art watching his practice then we went to spoons and spoons is like before there's I don't know if they still have spoons like chilies

and yeah they don't but I know what you're saying Okay, so we're sitting there eating, and he's like trying to be on a diet. And I got like a burger and fries. And meanwhile, we're talking basketball and, you know, like, I'm sure you sat down with Rick Majerris. I mean, it's just the most incredible, insightful basketball conversation. Meanwhile, he's eating all of my fries while he's telling me he's on a diet and he's eating a salad. And he's asking me about my burger. That looks pretty good.

So then he orders like the same burger and the same fries I have wipes the whole thing out. So they come back to town to play Fullerton like two weeks later. He comes to my house for an in-home visit. And my mom makes this huge kind of spread. And he's like, listen, you know, tomorrow they're going to pass a rule where prop 48s, if they graduate on time, can get that year back. So look, his vision was I would play, me and Andre would play together for a year. And then Andre would go to the pros. And in this particular case, he basically told me like the very next day, which he did.

did happen. Prop 48s could get their year back, so I would have had to play two years with Andre and only had the team to myself for a year, and I wasn't really, I just didn't think that was a great situation for me. I'm not really a two guard anyway. Neither Andre or Normie could shoot, and that wasn't anyway. He stayed and had a great dinner. We had a great visit, even though he knew, like, it wasn't really a scholarship offer because it wasn't something I was going to take. So that's my own kind of Utah thought I might go there, and all of a sudden it didn't happen. that is such a

Rick Majera story yeah he had great he killed my crushed my mom's fried chicken just just crushed it um okay so of the things he could turn on the charm too

oh yeah oh no no question although he's the one who told my dad he could light up his team coach him hard and then he could just turn on the charm he's one best coaches I've ever no no no question

and obviously there's some there's some other stories which are amazing which we may not, we might not tell. We might tell. We might tell. We get it's a podcast. We can tell. But yeah, it was pretty interesting stuff. Okay, so you've, but you've only won three tournament games. And I say only, remember, it's not like St. Mary's, but you've had all these incredible dominant seasons. You're competing with Gonzaga, who's now reached a national championship

game and, you know, lost by a bucket. Obviously, the Villanova game is probably your signature upset win. How can you get, like, what's missing from allowing you guys to do what a butler of ECU, maybe more Butler and Ogunzaga and some of these other programs that have been kind of mid-majors and they've been able to compete deeper into March than you've been able to compete? I think the biggest deal, I think we won four tournament games. If you're counting, they say turn one. Oh, okay.

So I think they took one off. I think they took one off. Did they take one off? No, no, no, no, no. Okay, my bad. So you won four tournament games. No biggie, no biggie. But the bottom line is, I think the hardest thing is to get in the tournament.

If you get in the tournament, you can, I don't think it's not easy, but it's harder to get in the tournament than it is to win a game. And the last two times have been there with Arizona one time and lost to Memphis the next or the other time. Well, part of it is you guys get, you also get bad draws, too, because you never, you see, you never, you're like where Gonzaga used to be where you never get a good seed. No, but, hey, there's, unless you're a one or a two seed,

you're going to get a bad draw. There's, there's no dogs in there. It's all pretty even, and that's why I say, the hardest thing's getting in. If you can get in, you've got a chance to win. You've got a pretty good chance to win if you're, if you get in there and you play well. You have to play well.

But it's, so I think it's sad. It's just you've got to get, and once you win one, then it's going to get tougher the next game. So there are, I tell our guys, I get an NCAA tournament, there's no bumps. So you're going to be playing against somebody good, and you're going to have to play a A or B game to advance. And that's where it's at.

So I think, yeah, Last year we were good enough to win a game or two in the NCAA tournament. But you just have to play well. And I think we could probably, I think being in it and winning games, you've got to do that to having that kind of experience. You need that. It helps you in the next time you're in the tournament. So if you can get a string of back-to-back insid, like Delhi went three out of four years.

If you get something like that, it helps you because the NCAA tournament is a totally different deal. And you just got to be used to the whole format and all the interviews and all the hype that goes with it and all that stuff is, it helps if, like anything else, it helps if you have experience. So I think getting in is the key, and then after that, you just, you have to be big enough. You can't, I don't think you can play small and have success in that. You don't think so? You have to have some dudes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, you've had dudes.

I mean, we haven't talked about Mickey McConnell. Omar was, Omar, you made into a dude, right? Omar Sanan. Obviously, you had Patty. And we've talked about, you know, Kickert and Cape Horn and all those others. Like, you've had some really good players. Okay, what's the closest you've ever come to leaving? Well, I haven't really come close to leaving

But Utah opened it last time I think Yeah, I think when Larry took it You know I was intrigued on that one And so if I have to pick the closest That would be the closest What keeps you there?

I'm happy But so many other guys would be like But yeah, but you could be like Two or three million dollars happy At somewhere else how do you balance that? Like look, you still make a healthy living and you live in a great place, an expensive area.

You get on a long time ago, but how do you balance out the idea that you could just kill it financially with happiness? Yeah, you pick another spot. You're not going to... I pretty much know all the pieces and people that are in the right places

at St. Mary's. So I'm not ever worried. worried about those types of things. And I think, you know, you go to another school and you take two or three million, you're going to have to deal with that. And so there's no guarantee. I think there's no guarantee that it's going to be as good a deal as you as I have at St. Mary's probably unlikely that it is.

If you maybe really had a great relationship with an AD or something and had a lot of trust there, then maybe it could be. but as I've been here, the money thing at this point, it doesn't really matter that much to me. Yeah, would it be nice, but if I do things right, I should have enough money

that should be able to be good for my career. So it's not as big a deal, and that way, and money-wise, it's more a big deal in that, hey, Ali, we have a program here, here and there's

some more fun things that you're trying to do. You're trying to build your program to last for the long haul. You have your guys coming back now. Maybe guys are in your coaching staff. They come back with their kids.

You get to see that. You get to see that. They're proud of this. This is their family. This was their coach. That stuff. It's hard to put a price on it. pretty cool and everybody

doesn't get to have that. You have to be at a program long time to have that. I actually really enjoy that. And it's not, when I took the job, I wasn't like I had some master plan. He'll stay at St. Mary's, I was hoping we could win a couple games.

So you just kind of as I've been here longer, I've figured out, hey, there's some real rewards to stay in at the same place year after year. It's a great place to live. I really believe what the school's about. They've treated me really well. And I have all these players that are great guys and turn into great fathers, husbands, people, and the community.

So I really enjoy that. I really enjoy that aspect of it. Kyle's at San Francisco, and now you're back competing with Roe at Pepperdine. You had Lamont before at USDA. What's it like to coach him? against a friend because one of the things about you is if somebody sees you or hears you speak you're like well that's a nice but you are a fierce ridiculous competitor Kyle the exact same way the month the same way like you guys could go from being nice guys a lot like the Australians right

like you guys are going to hang out but when we're playing a win playing a win now what's it like to coach against guys who um i don't know if you're going to play UC Riverside but like DP's the coach there now right what's it like to compete against somebody who's a close to your friend. You know, if it were up to me, I wouldn't do it. Like, there's nothing I can do about Kyle being in the league, Lamont being in the league, he was in the league, and Lorenzo and League.

I don't like it at all. You're right. Like, you have to compete. So you're going to have to play the game, then you turn all that off, and you're going to compete. And, uh, but it just, it affects, it's not as fun because you can't, like, I can't share stuff with Kyle that I used to.

to ask him about his team. You'd ask about my team. You just don't do that anymore. So it creates when you're in the same league and you're competing twice a year, it just puts a little strain on the openness of that friendship. And so that's why, like I won't play D.P. at UC Riverside and won't play Iran at Hawaii and Rick Croy at Cal Baptist. If I can avoid it, I don't. We never played Lorenzo in Washington.

So that's kind of my role is I don't want to play my guys that are my assistants or I worked with as Lorenzo's assistant. So it's not a, I don't like it. But when you get, you have to play, you have to play. Yeah. Rick's a really good coach. They're going to be good at Cal Baptist. I've zero, zero doubts about that at all.

You guys got dinged by the NCAA for a kid who never played for you for an assistant that wasn't on the staff. And now you hear, I mean, like anybody else, you read about the college basketball scandal and text messages about major money, either being offered and potentially being doled out. Like, what's the discussion inside your coach's office about what's going on in college who?

Besides the thing, the one is, hey, having gone through an NCAA situation like we did, and I thought it was garbage but having the stress that's on that it's just I mean it's tough it was tough so I don't I don't wish that on anybody and there are

you know you can you can be a pretty good guy and running a very clean program and sometimes get hit on this so then the other part of it is yeah I think

I don't think the FBI has this to sing that wrong. I think they're probably, the some of the stuff that's coming out, I think a lot of guys in college basketball would say, no, it doesn't shock me. Maybe the amount, but the fact that it's going on,

it didn't, I don't think it's that prevalent, but I think most of us knew, hey, some of that stuff existed. And so that part of it, and when people act like it's not going on still you just want it right

like you want it right you don't feel like you don't feel like some people are getting an edge on you because they're doing it the way you're not supposed to be doing it so it's uh um I'm not whole it than now on it and I don't think most guys are like we understand but there's certain things that

they just don't they don't taste right on this one and uh so you don't wish it for them, but you're not, I think there's a lot of us in coaching right now that like, are we going to deal with this or is this just going to go away? And I don't think everybody wants it just to go away. There's a hard question I intend. We went it straight. We want it fixed. Okay. So here this is, is not what it should be. Have you guys ever paid a player?

No. No, I mean, like. I've never, never come close to pay. Have you, have, has a kid ever asked for money? No. never once no now there's been guys before

that we think got hooked up but I don't know if we could prove it or not but got hooked up from other

you don't want to say that because it's kind of a cop-out excuse deal so you can't just say oh geez they're getting them because they cheated

a lot of times they're getting them most times they get them because they they had a better pitch they had a better their situation was better

they outworked you. So, and yeah, I never go there on that. But, yeah. To me, it's a very simple, like, have you ever paid a kid? Have you ever changed his grades? Right. You know, as long as you haven't done those two things, I don't, I don't even like the idea that you have these recruiting windows opening and closing.

Like, guys, a recruiter, let him go recruit. Like, I know it was kind of ridiculous. My dad back in the day who would be gone for months on end. But I think now you can wear kids out to where to actually. turn them off if you recruit them too much. If you're texting them too much, if you're calling them too much, you're hanging around too much. Like it gets a little bit creepy to some kids.

But I just, I kind of think those are the two questions, right? And I kind of think we go from there. But the idea that this does go on, what would you say the percentage of times this goes on? I don't know. I'm probably the wrong guy to ask. I don't know. I think it's, it, there's probably some outliers on this,

but I think the ones it goes on with are the ones that are going to be NBA guys, that are going to be lottery picks. I think that's, these guys are worth a lot of money to some people. It could be agents. They're worth a lot of money to an agent if they sign them. Like, we're talking about guys nowadays, if they're the future LeBron James or California, Kevin Duran and they're worth $500 million.

So as an agent, you're going to do what, you know, you can do what you have to do, I guess, to sign one of those guys. You're going to make a lot of money off them, and so are, so there's other people that can make money along the way as well. And $10,000 to a guy, you know, $10,000 to get a guy that's going to make $500 million is nothing. And so I get that. I totally understand that. And some of it is, if you're an agent, I don't know what's, I don't, I'm not sure why that's not smart. I don't know the legalities of it, but you would do what you have to do to get in tight with a runner or a whatever, a relative or whatever that can help influence that guy to come your way when he goes pro. And yes, they're probably working that angle before he's a pro.

I get it. These guys are worth a lot of money now, and that is changed. It's changed recently. I'd say in the last 10 or 15 years, the numbers are just shot up. So I think what we all want is we want this thing fixed, and there's some things in the system. I don't have the answer, is my answer, but I think we all would like it to get fixed because it's not really –

Can I think we're dealing with a very elite group of kids that people know are going to be worth a lot of money so they're going to do about whatever they have to do. And I'm not just talking about – I'm not necessarily talking about coaches. I'm talking about the other people in between, whether it be to shoot companies or agents or whoever. Well, also, I don't think you – like – it's one of those – it's like lawyers, right? somebody walks in and says, what do you do for living? I'm a lawyer. Like, you know, because there are unsavory lawyers, be like, oh, lawyer.

Like, wait a second, I'm a, you know, I'm a public defender. Or I'm a, like, there's plenty of lawyers who do a very good job for their clients, buy their clients, you know. It's the same thing with the basketball. It's like, if you said you're a college basketball coach, I think there are some that would perceive you as, oh, those guys are just basically used car salesmen because of perception more than reality, right? the reality is your kids come, they have a good time, they usually play an NCAA tournament

or playing in an IT, they play in these epic battles with BYU and Gonzag and on national television, they get a degree, they make friends for life, and many of them go and play a little bit professionally and then go on their merry way or maybe they come back and help you coach. Like, that's the reality of it, but the perception of it is a basketball coach is a bunch of used car salesman, right? But that's not, and that's the part that I think coaches want to fix. most because they know that that 95% of guys are better off because they got a chance to play

ball in college. They met their wife there. They met their best friends there. And they gave themselves a chance to have a life after college because of it. Even higher. Yeah? But yes. I agree.

I'd say it's probably above 95%. Okay. A couple other things. Give me one coach who you really like or really respect, watching. tapes or whatever, learn from, and they have no idea. Like, it's not somebody you've reached out. You just, like, I have a certain coaching crush on this guy. Well, one program I have a lot of respect for is, but I think he kind of knows,

is Sean Miller. I think they do a great job coaching. And I think I'm always, I can get a chance to watch Wichita State. They'll watch them. They play so hard and defend so hard. So there's two. I think Tony Bennett and Virginia, a lot of respect there for way he's,

way he coaches and how good they are, again, defensively. And they're good. I mean, they're just so consistent. But those will be three that, like I told my assistants, hey, get some film on these guys. I want to watch a little bit of them in the offseason. Your team is young this year. This is a new group.

there's a lot of youth there. Whereas in the past you guys have been able to, you know, to draw on so much experience, how hard is that, especially in a league where you have a team like Gonzaga that most people think have a chance to win it all? Yeah, it's a, it's challenging. It's a fun challenge, but it'll be challenging,

especially, I think our non-conference schedules pretty tough this year. And so with a young team, early on. I think we'll get it together, but we'll probably have some growing pains along the way somewhere. But I like our personnel. I think we have good players. I just think we're, we have so many guys. We have eight guys, eight out of our 13 scholarship guys are guys that haven't, didn't play last year for. So there's so many new pieces. You guys have to play new roles. And I don't really know a way to rush that. It just takes, you have to have enough practices and you have to have enough games under your belt

where they can get confident playing their new roles and grow into them. But like Jordan Ford has to turn into our best score, best player. And last year he's probably third or fourth. So he's got to make a big jump. We have to do that with about nine guys. How do you do that? How do you make Jordan like, do you, because one of the things that Eddie Sutton would do is we'd play the UT San Antonio's of the world, and we'd get to the second half, we'd be up 25, and we were still running plays for Adrian Peterson or Desmond Mason, because he wanted it known throughout our team. When we need a bucket, these are the two guys, and those guys to understand he had the utmost confidence in them, how do you, do you allow it to happen organically?

Like, how do you do that? no i i don't think i i guess it happens a little bit organically but you kind of have to set it up where it can happen that way i think one of the first things you have to do is you got to figure out your eight or nine are and if you're at least for me if you're jumping around all over on that and then you're not going to be able to get a group of eight or nine to play together to understand that roles and then once you have that then you can start working on after that but so for me right now that's our biggest challenge whereas a team like we had last year and I have to worry about that all we had these guys this was pretty much third year

in a row we had them and they're playing the same roles and so I knew we would I knew we'd be good and this year it's different and and I think so we don't we don't have a lot of teams on our non-conference schedule where I can you have a lot of a lot of leeway there on whether it went or not. So that's the, you better get good first

and then, and then try developing those other guys. You got a couple of transfers, Malik Fitz, obviously from San Francisco, but Aaron Menzies, he's, what, he's 7-3,

is he still 260? Do you lean him up? Like, I've never seen him play, but it, it feels like he's a block-out-the-sun sort of big guy. And you've had,

you've had some big guys, but a lot of your big guys have been really skilled facing up. What's Menzies like? Menzies is a good athlete. At one point he was a 300-pound guy, but he's 265 now. He's in good shape. He's a good athlete.

So he is not a face-up guy's straight, low post guy, and he's pretty good. He was 11-8 last year at Seattle, U. wish we had more time with him, but he's doing well. So we have to, he'll be more like, he'll be more like an Omar type guy. All right. Started out, started out heavy. Now he's like super thin. I don't know, maybe.

Right, we thinned him up. He got down to 250, 255 when he was senior. We started out 300. Is Omar your greatest, like, be like, hey, this is our program? Is it Omar? Give me one. Who's the guy who, obviously you have a couple guys playing in the NBA, but is your signature in terms of player development, personal development,

sort of guy from what you brought into campus to what you end up producing? There's a few of them, but an Omar would be one of those. There's four or five of them that jump out to me where they weren't great players when we took them. and they just kept developing, kept working. He's won. Laundale is way up there. He and Omar are, like, those are the two bigs that really came along ways.

And, like, Londale, he played five minutes a game for us as a pressure. Maybe that was me. Maybe that was the problem. But anyhow, he just kept getting better. Delvedova is, he's 100% one of those guys. He just kept getting better. McConnell was, too. Those are four.

There are others, but those are four that ended up being really good players, like players of the year type players. Yeah, Patty, we only had two years, and one of the years he broke his hand for half the season. So anyhow, those are the guys that we talked recruiting to new recruits, and we talk about player development. Those are the guys. A slide comes up on the projector of,

hey, this is what these guys did, freshman, sophomore, junior, senior, and they can see the transformation. That's pretty amazing. And Mickey is a guy. You talk about being lucky. Mickey's a guy. New Mexico makes a coaching change. So he decommits.

You end up getting him. And look what incredible career he had and has had, you know, since. It's some of its luck, some of its skill relationships. And I think the respect that you guys have garnered to where now all of a sudden, same areas is a household name. Hey, man, I know this has been probably longer than you thought you would, thought you would have to be on the phone to do the pod. But I appreciate it. I can wrap ball all day with you, Doug.

Then we'll do it again. We do. And at some point, what we'll do is after your season's over, then I'll have you. We'll do some what you see in terms of watching NBA because I think so oftentimes, just, you know, basketball is basketball. And I love hearing basketball coaches talk about what they're seeing

with the NBA, because I know you watch the playoffs, especially after your season's done. Thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you soon. Doug, thanks for having me. Take care. My thanks to Bobby Regan and Randy Bennett. What incredible insight in building a college basketball program and getting ready for the college basketball season.

I'll leave you with this from the NBA as we get ready for the season. I would encourage all brothers, sisters, mothers, cousins, uncles, friends. Don't tweet. Don't message on IG. Don't post things about somebody else's life. because it becomes controversial and though it comes back to you, it's like Kevin Durant's brother

put on his Instagram page, 81 more to go until we're out of here. And maybe that's the case. Maybe KD does want to get out of there. Maybe it feels like no matter what I do, it's always staff's team.

Maybe he wants to go to New York and be the guy who can save the New York Knicks. Nicks will have cab space for him. My guess is Prasengis barely plays if at all this year. And they try and keep loading up as I love Kevin Knox. I think he's terrific. But I don't see how it helps it. You know, this is the everybody wants a reality show.

Everybody wants their name in the paper. And now we're talking about Kevin Durant's brother, who is merely a distraction. Even if he has the story right, it's not your story to tell. And that's the mistake in the IG message. Look, we'll break down some of the rookies, the Kevin Knoxes, the Trey Youngs of the world. I would expect Luca Donchick to have an incredible season with the Dallas Mavericks because he's been playing against the higher level of competition

and he's older, he's bigger, and no, he's not as athletic as some of the other guys, but he's very refined. And I think he's playing with a pretty good team. I don't know statistically how to look, but remember, stats don't matter if they're empty stats and you're playing on a losing team, like a Trey Young's going to play on.

But I do think those are two of the leaders coming in in terms of trying to, win rookie of the year and we'll break down their opening games will give you a sense of what we think I've told people that I think Janice

Janice and KD are the two guys that are most likely to compete for an MVP KD has a lot to try and prove and so does Janice. Those are the two guys I would keep an eye on. I think Toronto's a team, excuse me, I think Portland's a team that will come back down to earth because they played way above their level

and I'm not sure the Golden State Warriors got better. I think they got different because they're not going to have their full allotment of players until DeMarcus Cousins is healthy. I don't love their bench as is, even though to push one of their starters to the bench. And if he's a starter, is he okay if they play small at the end of games? If they play with them, they have to play big defensively, which is not how they usually play.

Make sure you listen to my show daily, 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 12 to 3 Pacific. Wherever you listen to Fox Sports Radio, I'm Doug Gottlieb and this has been AllBall. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo.

And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear.

Listen to Sports Slice. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world.

Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know.

Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.