The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - NBA's big small market problem; Zion banking off Duke's brand; SIU Edwardsville HC Brian Barone talks hoops

Episode Date: July 25, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb looks at the hopeless situation small market teams in today's NBA, why Zion Williamson's $75 million shoe deal is due in large part to growing his brand at Duke. Doug's guest is new SIU-Edwardsville Head Coach Brian Barone who discusses learning from his father - and legendary college coach - Tony Barone, his recent passing, and his plans for his first DI coaching gig. Download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Finding the perfect developer, designer, project manager, or whomever you may need is easy. You just have to know where to look. Find and hire the world's best talent right now. On Upwork, the world's work marketplace.

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For surprisingly great rates, like a good vicino, stay farmistae. I had a friend get me a magnet that says, it's not hoarding if it's cool stuff. And I hold that to be true. Yeah, Marie Kondo says differently. Everything brings me joy.

Sorry, but... Yeah, but that's what everyone says. Everyone says everything brings them joy. That's her whole thing. Okay, yeah, but when I stare at that limited edition box of cheese, it's in the corner of my room, that brings me joy. Or the, or the Pokemon Oreo.

the Pokemon Oreos that I keep, that brings me joy. That reminds me of my youth. It wasn't that long ago. Listen to the My Cultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening to the All Ball Podcast, all basketball all the time. We can get into summer recruiting in the summer circuit. We can get into the NBA as Free Agency.

has died down, I continue to point out that these small market teams are going to be ticked. When Michael Jordan, it's so funny, like all these players who say Durant said it, Ron said it, they want to be owners. Michael Jordan actually is an owner

and he's ticked about how some of the free agency stuff went down. I wait, Kemba agreed to a deal right after the deadline? How did that happen if you're not supposed to talk to each other? You know? And he's a guy that didn't want to pay Kempa of the Supermax because he didn't think it was worth it.

Here's the problem with owning a team in a small market. If you draft the right guy, you nurture his growth, he plays for you, you have to give him a max or a supermax contract. If you do that, you are not going to make money. Unless you put a team around him, and you put a team around him, really good one, you're going to go into luxury tax. You go into luxury tax or even if you're paying top end of the salary scale before luxury tax, you're not making money on a daily basis.

You're just not. Now, you can tell me, well, Doug, these owners make money in the value of the franchise. That's great. But you know when you reap the benefits and the value of the franchise? When you sell the franchise. And most people don't buy an NBA franchise thinking, man, I can't wait until I sell this thing. That's not the idea. You'll want to see it through.

so you can't you don't have the non-basketball generated income the way that the lakers do or the nicks do or the nets may or the rockets may being a bigger market and bigger local TV stuff and be able to withstand or just you have to have ridiculously deep pockets in order to go into luxury tax and pay these salaries so you damn if you're doing it if damned down you either you either overpay for guys and lose money hoping to gain. and win a championship one year. Or you try to maintain your books, grow it organically, knowing that you're going to make some money, but you're not going to win championships. It's a really hard thing. I don't know how to fix it. But I do know that eventually this is one of the reasons

that college athletics takes time to change, because you have half of the programs aren't making money on their college sports teams. And they have to be more self-sufficient than they ever used to be. And so while Alabama and Texas and Ohio State and LSU, they're killing it in football, lots of other programs like Yukon or not, when you have one league in the NBA where there's almost bipolar in terms of the revenues, the values, you have the same thing in college sports. Let me go back to college sports as well.

I know many of you are brought up under the belief that somehow the NCAA and college athletics are the bad guys because they make some money on athletes, their name and image and likeness. The whole thing is bullshit. You've been fed bullshit by people in the media. You have. If you don't believe me, if you don't believe me, I'll give you Zion Williamson. Okay. Now, Zion Williamson just into deal with Jordan Brand for what's supposedly more than $10 million a year for five years. Let's say it's $50 million.

Last year, Zion Williamson left high school. He could have gone straight to the G League. And even as a YouTube sensation, maybe he signs for a million dollars with Nike or Under Armour Adidas. So maybe he drives it up to $2 million. If you think for one second that playing half a season, he really played half a year, half a year at Duke didn't grow his brain. exponentially to where he just signed the biggest deal. A one-and-done guy has ever signed. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reaction. actions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. A rep. My mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nasree. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like,

after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're either an idiot, or you just are so rife with anger and hatred

of any sort of leadership that you can't see the forest because you're too close to the trees. Yes, Duke benefited. Some financially from Zion Williamson, some, not a lot. Their games were going to be on TV. Their arena was going to be packed. They were going to get the NCAA tournament.

Their radio and TV rights were going to be the same, whether he came or he didn't come. But Zion Williamson, playing half a year at Duke, benefited at the tune of, what, $40, $45 million, in addition to where he moved up in the draft board. And he's a household name. Not because he's Zion Williamson, because he's Zion Williamson, who plays. played at Duke. All right, enough of destroying the whole argument that college sports don't bring value to players.

Only players bring value to college sports. I love Jay Billis. He came on the pod last year. You should download that one. Maybe we'll get him on again this year just to talk about the freak athlete that is Zion. But I actually think the whole Zion thing helps kind of make the argument. He improved as a player, improved as a person, improved his draft stock. And his value on Madison Avenue went up exponentially because he linked into Duke's brand.

Duke's brand is more powerful than anything, even Kentucky's brand in college basketball. It helped him. And I have the hard numbers to show you how. Beaver's Sportsbook wants to invite you to discover the complete sports betting experience. The foundation of that experience is a massive number of betting options on nearly every regulated sporting event around the world. Add on top of that live streaming of sports every day. there's almost always a live match to watch on BetRivers Sportsbook right in your phone. BetRivers features top-tier customer service, ready to answer your questions any time, day or night.

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even send job alerts, so your perfect job lands right in your inbox. Go to careerbuilder.com today or get left with whatever jobs are left. Find your next job fast at careerbuilder.com. Now let's get to our interview of the week. Brian Barroni is the new head coach at S IU Edwardsville, Division I program that Marty Simmons had as a 20-win program going back, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago. Brian's lived in kind of an incredible life.

Son of Tony Barone, the now late, great coach of places like Creighton, like Creighton, like Texas A&M, just kind of a beloved figure in the basketball world because he was colorful, he had a great name, and he was hilarious. And it was a good ball coach. Brian and I were, I wouldn't say rivals, contemporaries. at some level, played against him when he was at A&M, and then he ended transferring to Marquette, which was one of the schools that I was down to before I chose Oklahoma State after transferring from Notre Dame.

There's a lot of ties that bind. His father passed away not long ago, about a month ago. And so this is his first interview in discussing his life and his life with his dad. I hope you enjoy it. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show Week Days at noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Let's start at the beginning. Your dad's a long time coach. Where were you actually born?

Where was he coached when you were born? I was born in Chicago, Illinois. I was there until about six months old, and then he went down to Bradley, and that's where I kind of, that's where I grew up or first remember growing up, obviously. What do you remember about it? I just remember, you know, I just remember being around the gym a lot, and I also remember being around a lot of family, cousins, aunts, uncles from my mom's side especially, would come visit a lot from Chicago. And that was really probably my upbringing for the most part in those first seven, eight years of my life. Your brother's older than you, how much older than you? Tony, six years older. So he and I are, yeah, are close, but he's always, been a mentor to me because of that age difference for sure.

Yeah, but was he always a mentor? Like, my brother was four years older than me, and, I mean, there were times when he was kind of a dick. I mean, like, you know, just, and maybe not, it wasn't, yeah, he kind of was. Like, he, his favorite story is our buddy, or his buddy's house. Like, we never had a pool. I don't know, my dad's a New Yorker, and he was definitely afraid of us having. a pool. And so

we had to always go over to somebody else's house, which is, to me, is actually counter to what you should do as a parent. Like, my whole thing, we don't have a pool in this house, and I'm just like my last summer without a pool. And because if you want to watch your, be there, watch your own kid swim. On the other hand, there is

the liability that's assumed when somebody else swim in your house. So, we're at a friend's pool, and he pantses me, throws my shorts up on the roof, and then like a bunch of other of his friends come over and they're like inside the house and I'm like swimming in the pool naked and I have to go get my final way to get my shorts. You know, I'm like, I don't know, 10 years old or something swimming in the pool.

He used to lock me out of the house because we were my mom, my dad was an assistant at Longby State and my mom got a job there as like a secretary. And so we were like latchkey kids and we get home and sometimes just to be a jerk. He'd tell me to go outside and get something and then he'd lock me out. and then his favorite move was, hey, meet us at the school, we're going to play some basketball, we need another guy, and then no one would show up, and I'd be sitting there. I like that one. Yeah, which would actually help me work on my game. I'd play imaginary games. So, like I said, and I love my brother, but he wasn't always a mentor.

Was he always a mentor? He was always a mentor with things like that because he taught me how to be like that a little bit. Yeah, I guess the politically correct way of being positive about him is, yeah, he did that kind of stuff to me, too. There was one time I did open-hand slap him for, you know, my mom and dad were on the road. I think there actually was Seth Greenberg doing one of those trips, those foreign tours, and my cousin was watching me, and he was trying to be my dad, for lack of a better term, and I was younger, and I hit him in his Coke, you know, those Coke rim glasses or bottle glasses that he had growing up. and he got me and he let me know that he was six years old of that.

So, yeah, we had some incidents like that as well. Okay, so from Bradley, where did he go? He went from Bradley to Creighton. So he's at Creighton for seven, eight years, I think. Okay, so do you, like now I look back, they were both in the Valley, weren't they? Yeah, he was in a, you know, from what I remember, he was one of the first kind of associate She had head coaches at Bradley. It was a title that wasn't quite as common.

And he went from Bradley to Creighton, and he was there. Dick Forsace was there at Bradley. He went over to Creighton, and then Dick Forsace left to, I think, the Pacers, and then that's going to Stan Albaugh that came in. And my dad was building Creighton at the time for about seven years, I think seven years, seven or eight years. Dick Forsace had amazing hair. He did. He did.

It was a white man's Afro. pictures. He did. He did. It was, uh, had a little frizz to it, had a little, uh, had a little, uh, had a little texture. You know, I, I've seen it, I've seen a lot of pictures these last couple weeks and he, he had it going on. Yeah, I, I don't know. I think, I think that was what's called a permanent, right? Like, like a perm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because Coach Sutton, coach said and had a perm going. Yeah, they, they, uh, you know, they had to spend some time in the, um, the phone on. And my dad had a feathery, his feathery locks going on to. there was a lot of style.

There was actually, there was a lot of style back in the VAL. You know, there was some showmanship back there in those days. Yeah, my dad, when he was at UW Milwaukee, had some of those same, like, sports coats, whatever. Like, they all kind of had a little flamboyance going late. My dad was like, we're talking late 70s and early 80s, right? They all wanted those, like, plaid sports coats or whatever. The problem was that my dad still wore those plaid sports coats into the 90s.

and it didn't translate as much. What do you remember about Omaha? I remember a lot about Omaha. I really do. I had some really close friends because I was there second through seventh grade. And I really remember from a basketball perspective the change. You know, I talk about, you know, I got into coaching because of that. Creighton was my good golf shot, you know, that one swing that bad golfers have.

They're like, you know what, I'm going to try this again because I just hit the ball. right down the middle of the fairway. And Creighton was that, that team at Creighton that my dad built was something that, I mean, it was more than basketball. It was one of the, it was a great memory. And I just remember that Gallagher, the Harsdad, Porter Mozier was on that chief. Todd Eisner, Duarn Co. I mean, it was patrol right.

So all those guys were just, they're in. Wait, wait, don't gloss over the names. Go through it. So Harsdad, Harsdad used to play, it used to hang out at Oklahoma State in the offseason. when he's playing professionally overseas. Yep, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, he's down in Oklahoma City now. He was about a 6-5-66.

Didn't know how well he could dribble, pass, or shoot, but I want to say he was the all-time leading score up until a Corver at Creighton. I'm pretty sure. I mean, just a meanest, meanest dude, I remember growing up and just got it done. And then there was Gallagher, the 6-10 guy from Rockford, you know, got some, you know, a couple of stints, the league some 10 days and things like that was they were the dynamic duo you know the um

even though i never understood they were both dressed so i didn't know the dynamic duo nobody wants nobody wants to be robin right like robin's like robin's like hey might be gay we don't not that there's anything wrong with that right he's you know he's he's he's a little brother nobody wants to be robin even if there is a robin um yeah i think that's that's kind of the thing and remember this is back in the this is back in the late 80s early 90s when, you know, masculinity was the thing. So. They both had their, their, their, their, their, their, their capes on and, uh, in the back,

in the batheads. Yeah. Loveland, Colorado. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yes. He scored, uh, he scored, uh, he scored 2110 points and grabbed 11 hundred 26 rebounds.

Just got it done. He was three time all, all valley. And he was a valley player of the year in 1990. And, uh, he was, uh, he was, tournament player of the year 91. What a stud. He was a beast. He was a beast. He was playing. Him and a guy by the name of Dick Fick was my dad's assistant. They found him in... Wait, his name was what?

Wait, his name was what? Dick Fick. Dick... Wait, how do you suppose his last name? F-I-C-K. We had Tony Barroni and Dick Fick on the same set. That's unbelievable. That's amazing. That's like name Hall of Fis. Yeah. Fick and him and they found him. And they found him. Hartstead had a Mohawk playing

soccer out in Colorado and he was playing in some of these camps on the black on the black top and as a story goes they found him out there kind of just playing extremely hard and and they went with him and that's when he ended up

he had a heck of a career. He was all the legal career. That is. Okay, so what was your dad like as a coach? What do you remember? Because you know, your second grades through seven, seventh grade, and you're a super high basketball IQ guy, and so you're perceptive enough to know what he was like.

Like, what was he like? He was a ball of energy and passionate. I mean, he really was. I mean, they had things growing up where I just remember going to the practices, and I'll tell you right now, if I was dribbling and the whistle blew, and he was making his, if he was making his point, as he would like to say through the way, the way. words that he decided to choose from his dictionary, and I dropped the ball, or I was in the middle of a shot, I was diving for that ball before it hit the ground because I was not

letting it trouble. He was an intense, tense person, you know, very loving, and, you know, was always around me, but like the reality of it was, he was a ball of fire, and, you know, he was 5'9, and can control a lot of grown men in arena. So he was very intense. I do remember that and passionate. I was doing a, I did a coaching clinic today in Oklahoma, and I told this story that I was sitting around and I had an Arizona guy and a Duke guy with me. And we were talking about Lut Olson, Eddie Sutton, and Mike Schochevsky. And so I just, so one of them asked me like, did Eddie Sutton ever draw a playup? And I was like, not one time. Not one time. And I was like, what about Lut Olson? He's like, not one time. He's like, what about Mike Schiaz? He's like,

nope, not even a little bit. Like, literally never. Like the whole, and I'm not, I'm not in any way trying to diminish who they were. Like, my dad used to, he'd get the whiteboard and he'd draw things and there would be no X's and O's. There would just be lines and arrows and stuff. And I was like, what the fuck? I can't. Whereas nowadays, like guys are, like, it's like a work of art with an ATO.

Now, granted, sometimes they still have assistants to it, but it's much more. So was your dad an X and O drawed up? up on a chalkboard or was he just go out there and play fucking hard and play together and show that you're tougher than the other team guy? I think he was more of a tougher than the other team guy. I do

think he definitely was about spacing and like preparation prior. Yes. So like you knew what plays you were going to go into a game with, you know, probably you had two or three late game plays. So, you know, and that's where you're going to do it. You were going to do it well and you're going to do it better than the other team.

and if not, then you lost. And, well, you know, when he, I would say his biggest strength was getting the most out of somebody. Yeah. On a day-to-day, there's no doubt about that, yeah. Did he, motherfucker, dudes? He did. He did. He was good at it.

He was almost, he was graceful. He had an arch. He was like a ballerina through his choice of words. And at times, at times I was fortunately the recipient of it. Well, I'll get to you playing for him because that's just a fascinating dynamic that I got a chance to see twice. But, okay, so your, so I had, I had a, there's a guy named Kirk Taji, who is my, one of my dad's favorite players. That's why, one of the reasons I wore 44. So I'm, and he was, he played for my dad at you'd have him Milwaukee.

And I just wondered if there was a guy, like, hit my dad's favorite player was Dave Weber, Bruce Weber's, brother, Dave, was my dad's best player, and Bruce was my dad's manager. And at the time, and then he got the job at, my dad helped him get a job at Western Kentucky with Gene Katie, and kind of the rest is history, if you will. So, yeah. But I used to love Kirk Tadji, and my dad, I think Kirk, I believe, had like long, blonde hair. He's like, good-looking dude.

And I don't think he gave a shit about what my, like, I just remember. like sometimes he would kind of blow off my dad a little bit. Anyway, my point is that when you're a son of a coach and you're around a team, a lot of times you have a favorite guy for whatever reason. Who was your favorite guy? You know, I thought Willie Scott, I mean, as you're sitting there saying it, back at Bradley, he was just a jet, and he was someone that I just remember when I was, I don't know, six, seven, eight years old.

I just remember those teams back at Bradley. Jim Les, who he was my guy. He actually played for Omaha Racers when we were at Creighton, so I was able to see him. And then the other guys is Bob Harset. I mean, that's the guy. I mean, that's who you.

Because you saw hope. You're like, if you just played as hard as you can, you're going to be on a team. And that was Bob. So I, those three guys just kind of stick out, you know, kind of in the years that I

kind of grew up. Okay, so, why do he leave? Why do he go to A&M? Was he just money? Yeah, you know, he actually said it in some clinics. You know, he said, you know, never, I think, you know, we were going in the morning to Colorado State.

I thought, I mean, not that he was going to, he was going to make any decision based on, you know, I was 12, 11 years old, and we all thought we were going to Colorado State. I remember they took him in a hot air balloon, and they blinded it dined him, And he was kind of a hot air balloon? Yeah, they took him in a hot air balloon. I still, to this day, I just remember always talking to him about it.

Like, that was their selling point. And I don't know if they showed him the campus. I don't, you know, I just, that was one of his kind of recruiting. I was his recruiting visits by an NCAA violation now if we were ever to do that. But so he was going to Colorado State to my understanding. We were, that was where we were going in the morning. And then that night he came in and he said, hey, how about Texas? and he said, we're moving to A&M.

And financially, I think they picked it up a little bit. And, you know, he'd mentioned that in some clinics in the past. He's like, you know, always always take the place that has your passion. And, you know, not that he didn't experience, have great experience in Texas A&M, but I think it was a little bit out of his wheelhouse in terms of location and, you know, part of the country, things like that. Well, also, he never, he got, you know, when we played for your last year there, coaching G. Raleigh White, which, I mean, which honestly, like, I kind of think

gee that Raleigh White could have been super cool if they just redid it instead of building the new place. You're right. You know, because it's like all these places, you know, it's like, just redo it. I mean, they had polls where people couldn't see, but it was on campus, and if you guys were good, but anytime you're building a new arena,

and, you know, the coach becomes kind of like lame duck coach, it sucks. You didn't have, for TechS&M as much as their facilities now are amazing, like ridiculous. Compared to the TexanM you went to where you didn't have, I don't think you had a practice, Jim, did you? No, oh, no, it was G. Raleigh,

he came down, and it was chippin, it was all, it was no, no, we're not even close. Right, and then, you know, the arena broke in front of me. We were conditioning, and I was like, ooh, that's not good. That is, the ceiling crashed and it delayed another year, so.

Yeah, I forgot. Not about that. Year two or three. Oh, yeah. We were out conditioning on the football field right outside of Needham State, and it broke. I was like, that's not good for the broken Christmas present. Christmas present fund right now. So you would have played in that your sophomore year?

Yeah, I was supposed to play in it. I believe it was my soft. I think, yeah, it was my sophomore year. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was going into my sophomore year. It was supposed to be, it was supposed to be done prior to it. And then it just kept him delayed, delayed, delayed, and then it broke, and then it was a year later. Wow. Okay, so let's go back.

You moved to College Station. You're in eighth grade, right? Yep. What was your first college station, Texas experience like? This is a, so I go down there, and we go down. It's me, my mom, and my dad. And we're there in the summer and doing some things. but my first thing that really sticks out

was we go down to midnight yell practice, you know, whatever it was, late August, or, you know, right before football season, you know, preseason exhibition game, whatever they're doing. And they shut off the lights in the arena, in the stadium, Kyle Field, and everyone holds up a lighter,

and then people walk to each other and start kissing. And it's called mugging. And me and my mom and dad are sitting in the crowd, and all these people are making out around us. And I'm sitting there going, you know, And with my mom and dad, I'm like, what the heck is going on? It was a heck of an experience.

It was pretty darn funny. But it opened my eyes to the tradition of Texas A&M football, for sure. I remember that being a little unique, awkward moment with my parents. What was it like to play high school basketball, your dad as a college coach down the street? It was awesome. It really was. My first year was a little difficult because I was bumped up to varsity as a freshman and I started every game

until I tore my knee, my senior year. But that first year was a little bit, you're the coach's son. And I was introverted. I have a without getting into all of it. But there's one of my friends really, who since passed

away, it brought me into his room. We're like 13 years old and John Madden football. He's like Brian. I mean, it's weird. It was like a mature behind his years and we weren't the most matured young man by any means. And just say, hey man, just you're good enough to play, you're good enough to start. You've got to be on that team.

That's got to be your goal. And I mean, it was kind of like that direct. And if you knew what I'm talking about, you know, it's odd coming from him. And so you gave me a good supporter friends and kind of believes in me. But, you know, you had to step up. You know, I think any time you're a local kid, even in college basketball right now, if you can control the intangibles, you know, your effort, basically, if you can be an effort kid, you can, you know, you can handle.

being locally the coach's son or the local kid on the college team. It's interesting about being the local kid and being the local kid in the high school. So my high school experience, I grew up in Orange and in the Elmadena district, and my brother went to Elmada High School. And my brother's a little smaller than me. He's more of a two-guard or whatever. And he could have gone low D-1, and instead he wanted to walk on at UCLA. he end up actually getting beat out

by, what's his name, Lou, shoot, he's the coach I think Bishop O'Dowd. Lou, he went, he started, a kid actually walked on his freshman UCLA, then transferred started at Clemson for three years. Like that's, he got beat out by a good player. So he was just like a student,

and then he went and decided he wanted to play, and my brother played for a year and a half at Drake. But my point was, because my brother's high school experience was just okay, my dad was like, I stayed back a year in eighth grade because I was a late bloomer, and then I was going to find like the best high school program to go to. And I didn't want to go to Modern Day

because Modern Day is like you don't play varsity until maybe your junior year. Gary McKnight's son, Clay, who's a friend of mine, he's not a point guard, but like Clay was going to play. I mean, that's just, he's going to play. And, I mean, there's one son who could really, really play, could really shoot. I just, I don't know, I just wasn't into the modern day thing. I want to play, and I'm more of a public school kid. So I went to Tustin High School, which is, I mean, it's the town directly south.

And they'd won the state championship and had a good coach named Tom McCluskey, who had played at Penn State for Dick Harder. And I just, the one, and this is like I'm trying to figure this out from my own kid. And you experienced this is the only, thing that sucked about my high school experience is because I didn't outside of basketball and even in basketball like no one knew me until I showed up for summer basketball with the JV and the varsity before my freshman year like because of that I didn't have like I wasn't I didn't have not just a friend group but there wasn't people like oh he's awesome he's good at basketball or he's yeah I just

I didn't have any sort of, I had no sweat equity with anybody. And when I went to Oklahoma State, I also felt kind of the same, more Notre Dame, Notre Dame, it said national schools a little different. But when I went to Oklahoma, like, had I gone to high school in Oklahoma, people would have known me better and known like, well, obviously I could shoot in high school. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been as highly recruited. It's more of a mental, right? You want people to believe in you, not because they believe in you,

but believe in you because they've actually seen you do it. So I actually think there is, like there's, we're creating this culture of guys, of high school kids that'll go to whatever high school. And I did it myself, but I did it, you know, one town over. Of college kids that'll transfer whenever, pros that'll do whatever. And I, having experienced bouncing around a little bit, I do think I missed out on the sweat equity portion of it. And I'm not sure my experience would have been better. In addition to there is something cool. And we both went to the same high school for four years, you and I.

There is something cool about going to the same high school and trying to win a state championship with your guys instead of recruiting off the top and having guys transfer in. So I just wondered if you experienced that because even though you were a coach's son, you came in from Omaha right before high, a year before high school, and then I didn't know if you had the sweat equity with everybody in high school. Well, in high school, by the time I got the high school, I was solid in eighth grade. And it was, you know, it was college station. There's one team, one school. You kind of, you know, everyone goes from A to B. But when I got there in eighth grade, they tried making me play football. I was about 5, 9, 5-10, and day one, I was coming from a Catholic school,

and over my first public school. I don't know. I'm walking around the hallways with, like, some freedom. And, you know, I was in St. Pius to 10 St. Leo, and I'm sitting in one classroom, you know, all day. And so I get there at the athletic spirit at the end of the day in eighth grade and said everyone, they asked. that everyone not playing football stand up.

And it was me and probably, I mean, honestly, out of 150-some kids, whatever, it was me and probably four or five, I'll probably eight kids, probably eight or nine kids, one of which is one of my best friends, who was significantly shorter than me. And the coach said, well, why are you playing? And I said, I'm playing basketball. He said, no, you're not playing football, sit down. So I sat down.

And I was like, oh, this is going to be a problem. So I went home that day, and I said, they're making me play football to my mom and dad. My mom was kind of looking like, well, you don't have to play football. And my dad's like, well, you have some cleats, get ready. And I was just kind of like, I don't know. I won't want to play football.

And so for about three or four days, I was at football. And what I had to do was my coach actually put, he kind of figured out who I was, and he said, all right, we're going to play open gym after school. And if you're good enough to play basketball, we won't make you play football. And that's how I didn't have to play football. because I went out there, talked about a game of pressure.

And I went out there and I was pretty good in eighth grade. And coach walked out and said, okay, you can play basketball. And so that was a little bit of my first experience. And then after I got to eight, you know, once I got to high school, I had that sweat equity equity. And then a little bit in college, to be honest with you, too. I mean, people, I was a little bit more of a shooter and a score in high school. And when I went to Texas A&M, I lost my mind.

I came off a tour in a CLE, and I didn't make a three my first year. But I did have that, which you didn't have, is what you're saying. I had that sweat equity where people like, man, come on, shoot it. We've seen you shoot. Right, because they knew you could shoot, and your dad knew you could shoot. Right. Yep. I just didn't know I could shoot, which is the problem.

Did you have any choice or any desire to look elsewhere to go to college? I did. You know, I was looking at East Carolina. that was one of the main ones. And then I remember specifically them recruiting me. And it was Coach Duly, as a matter of fact. And they were the only school that recruited me that didn't say, if you don't go play for your dad, we'd like to talk to you.

And the one other school came in was maybe. Doug Wojerk came in and his home visit. And I was fired up. And then by the end of it, I was like, I still got to go to the Navy. Yeah, no thanks. And I was like, yeah, no thanks. But those are the two schools that actively recruited me that didn't give me as the if you don't go with your dad.

And, you know, I mean, I think I probably knew it all along. But, yeah, that's kind of how it all played out. And then I committed to him and the rest was kind of history. And as you said, you got hurt your senior year. Your sophomore year was your dad's last year, I believe, correct? Yeah, we were both sophomores at the time. Yeah, yeah. What was that experience like to, like, I can't imagine, like, you know, when you play in college,

and I think people understand this, but maybe they don't, you get, you're so wrapped up in yourself, right? You're so in your own feelings about your own game. And then you want your team to win. So you have these two things. Then factor in, like, your dad's under a tremendous amount of pressure. to win. I can't, like, I struggled enough with worrying about myself and worrying about my team. And, you know, Mike, we were just, I was so competitive, and you're built the same way, too.

How did you process all those things going on at once? You know, I don't know if I processed it. You know, looking back on it, I probably didn't handle it great, or I internalized everything. And I was protected by my dad. I mean, he did a great job every day. this is what we do in practice. We were prepared, and we had some guys that I, you know, I think could have played harder. I think some guys didn't achieve what they, you know, what they get the best out of themselves.

So that my struggle was a little bit more within the team, not so much the pressure of the wins and losses. It was, you know, listen, guys, I'm fighting for my family right now. I was very aware of that. And they weren't. And that was where I struggled with it. And that was tough. Well, I guess maybe here's a better way of articulating it. Like, look, I think you and I are probably built the same.

Like, if guys aren't giving the right amount of effort and you're the point guard, you know, you have to find there are guys in which you're going to jump, but when you're the coach's son and you're emotional about the possibility of your dad losing his job. Like, I just, how did you, did you go at guys? Were you the leader you wanted? Yeah. Yeah, I remember specifically, we got beat by Nebraska. I mean, you probably look it up the date and time.

or whatever. And Tyron Loupout, I mean, I remember... He kicked my ass, too. Don't worry about it. He got me. I mean, I took a couple charges early, and we just, it was one of, there was two games that I was really

disappointed in being a teammate. I specifically remember, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't the best player, but my effort was always there. It was at Oklahoma State, which I had a career high, eight, eight turnovers, so thank you very much.

And then the other one was Nebraska at home. And after that Nebraska game at home, I remember stepping up and really being very emotional and getting into guys. And their response was, you know, someone could have very easily with my size and demeanor and strength could have put me in my place and no one did. And that was obviously a problem because, you know, what I was saying was probably more true than not. And that was tough. That was one game where I really, really remember after the game going, like, we can't do this.

This ain't right. And I handled it in a yelling kind of way. Yeah, you guys lost 7558 at home. You did win your last game in G. Raleigh, you won against Baylor. Yeah. One of the best moments of my basketball life, not because I was the win, but because my mom, my dad, and I, after knowing that we were done, and that was the last game I was going to be at home against with him,

we walked up that tunnel together. I can close. Someone just referenced it at the funeral in an email to me, as a matter of fact, and said that they remember seeing my mom, dad, and I walk. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

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And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

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Steve Nass would get that thing that man, hell get the flying, he running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that I said, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Up that tunnel for the last time or Trier Alley White, which is still gets you a little emotional at that time. But we won. It was a big win. Big win. That is a big win.

I told that story on Twitter about your dad. So here's the story. So we're at the Hereford House. And like, you know, like still in Oklahoma, there's not a lot of nice restaurants. And I don't think the Herbert House is there anymore, by the way. And so, you know, we have, you know, a big thing is like, hey, coat and tie, and we're going to Herford House. And we had, we finished in, we won the South that year. And we actually lost the first game.

We played to Texas, by the way, who sucked. But they played super smart for the first time, and they slowed us down, and it was crazy. But I remember we're at the dinner table, and I'm sitting with Coach Sutton and Patsy Sutton, and in-walks your dad with his, like, staff, and, you know, your dad, kind of like my dad, like, he had that strut. He had a really good strut, you know? Like, he might just lost his job, but, yeah, I mean, like, he, you know. So he walks in, and he comes over, and he shakes.

coach's hand. Coach, how you doing? Tony, where's your team? He's like, those fucking guys? They're at McDonald's. They got me fired, Eddie. Let's spend another penny on them.

It's amazing. We're dying. He just had a great, he just had a great great way. Here's one other one. So we play you guys at G. Raleigh White.

Yeah, I can remember it. And we were, I know where you're going with it. No, no, we had a bunch of smart asses. is on our team. And the lead smart ass was actually not me. He was Brett Robish, whose dad Dave, of course your dad knew, was played the NBA. And Brett is just, he's just an asshole.

He's the good kind of asshole. He's the best. So we're in the locker room, and he's like $20 to anyone who barks at that damn dog. So what you didn't know about it was his, Brett's wife actually transferred to Oklahoma State from Texas A&M. And this is the story that Shana tells is that she, the first time he had, the year before,

first time he was going to play on the road at Texas A&M, she's like, who do you guys play? She's like, Texas A&M. And she honest to God, she said this. She's like, oh, we had a basketball team? I had no idea. She's like, I had no idea. Anyway, so he put down $20,

which in college is a lot of money. money to anybody who would bark at Rebelly. And so if you go back, like we were all trying to, we were like, the ball went out of bounds a couple times and guys like, and I actually growled at the dog and the dog barked at me, I took home the money. So I think, I don't know if you took a charge on him or if he just fouled you super hard and we were up like 20. And your dad got.

I think it was 21, 21. Yeah. And your dad got pissed, pissed. and he's like, that's fucking, that's bullshit, that's fucking dead. Throw him out. He's fucking,

and he goes, and Brett Robich just calm his day. He's like, hey, Tony, calm down. Don't have a heart attack or something. We're kicking your ass anyway. And your dad lost his mind. He's just, you know,

I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was great. These days, it can be hard to find and hire the right candidates

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Terms and conditions apply. Imagine the biggest secret of your life. Now, imagine trusting that big secret with the entire world. That is exactly what Tony Morrison did when he made the brave decision to share his HIV positive status in an open essay on good. Good Morning America's website. Hi, I'm Zach Stafford, host of In The Deep Stories That Shape Us.

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the same exact picture. And I look vulgar because I'm thicker. But if a thinner girl does it, it's not that much of a big deal. And that's what I'm not okay with. Because why? Why? Because I have cellulite because I have thick thighs. I can't do that.

I can't feel sexy in my own skin. And those are the things that I want to break because there are so many women like me and I want to be and represent us, you know. Obviously, there's always room for improvement. I always want to look better. I want to work out. I want to lose weight.

But in reality, this is the body God gave me and I've never really been skinny. Listen to the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So, okay. So he loses his job, then how did you decide Marquette? You know, it's funny because I was going, I had a little, I had a little anger.

We can go anger, I can be honest about it. So I got a waiver to transfer within the conference and not lose a year. So I could transfer anywhere city here and still have the two years instead of doing like, Luke Axel. He kind of comes into play. So what happened was I was narrowed down to coach him. Samson at Oklahoma and Tom Penders, Coach Penders at Texas.

Oh, my God. I actually, I played good at both of those teams, so I had them tricked into considering me. And Coach Sampson was, they ended up going with a seventh-foot guy. I want to say his name was Avila. Yeah. But I went up on the...

Victor Avila. Dr. Avila, he was supposed to be like the next Nahara. Yes, exactly. That's exactly what he was saying to me. And he, I don't know if he... Yeah, I mean, he was... No, he wasn't good. Naharatu or something.

I don't think you ever planned out. Okay, so I visited there because I was friends with a guy named Aaron Jack on my team, was from Tulsa, friends with Renzai Stone, and another guy named Tim Haskett, so we were up there. Had a good weekend. I visited, and then I was going to visit Texas, and I don't know if you remember during that time. He got fired. Tom Penders got fired, and it was kind of like he released some, I think, Luke Axel's grade. It was something like that.

I can't remember the whole deal. And the weekend I was supposed to visit was the weekend that all broke. So then I was, the other guy was Mike Bean at Marquette, and he'd know my dad. We'd played Sienna. He's the best. He's the best. You know, I almost went there. Well, that's why our paths, you know, if you had gone there, I would not have, because you would have been, you know, there wouldn't have been a spot for me.

Right. I had Mike Barg and all those guys. They all knew you and all that kind of stuff. So that's what ended up happening. So I was kind of wavering on or waiting on Oklahoma and Texas. They both really weren't working out. And then Mike pulled me up and said he did a home visit. The final four was in San Antonio that year.

So I got, I had a lot of interest. Just coaches were, you know, kind of talking. I was right around that area. And I went up there and visited. He actually sat me down in the locker. He said, Brian, if you commit to me now, if your dad gets another job, I don't care for the August. I'm going to, you can go, no heart feelings, you go play for him if you want to.

My dad was in the mix for, like, Loyola and a couple other jobs. And I was like, you know what? This reminds me, Creighton. I want to go to a basketball school. I had a lot of family in Chicago, and Mike gave me that opportunity in case my dad was going to get another job. And I pulled the trigger and that's how that all went down. Mike Dean's favorite word is what? Oh, he...

there's a compound word that he was a lot. Yes, that's the word. It starts with the sea and ends with a sucker, correct? Absolutely. So the year you're sitting out, the year you're sitting out. Yeah, yeah. We play Marquette in Hawaii.

And it's like the opening. I was so mad. Right. And so we play Marquette in Hawaii, and I never forget this. So he comes out, and he was, you know, like, The kind of guy Dino was is I chose Oklahoma State. He wrote me this like four page.

I still have it. Like love letter of how bad he wanted me to come play for him and how he needs tough son of bitches and I'm a tough son of a bitch or whatever. And so I was like devastated when I had to call him and tell him. And part of it you talk about being mad. Like look, I got in trouble was my fault at Notre Dame, but I still want to kick Notre Dame's ass.

One of the reasons I want to go to Marquette was they play Notre Dame every year, right? So I just, I want to. to go to college town. I want to play with a little better athletes. I might could say he wanted to play fast, but he played slow. And I just, I couldn't do it. I don't know. I just, I couldn't do the, the upper Midwest again.

I just, I needed something different. So I actually worked camp for him after I had already signed to go to Oklahoma State, worked his camp and had turned him down. And his camp, as you know, was awesome because he had a keg in the locker room. you had to float the keg by, I think, Wednesday. And then on Thursday, he like, you'd go to the bar. There's a bar on campus of Marquette. Everybody come in and eat.

And then he'd leave his tab open. And then he'd leave and everybody could get plowed or whatever. It was just to use the – anyway, so we're in Honolulu. We come on the court. We're warming up. And Coach Sutton comes out in a suit and tie in Hawaii. And so Dino goes up to me and goes, Eddie Sutton, how are you doing?

Only fucking guy in America where a suit and Thai. A suit and Thai in Hawaii. You look great. And like, you know, Coach Sutton is like the classiest, like, what is going on with that guy? So, end of half, we come down and, you know,

we would run like the same. We ran like, we called it Hoosier or IU, where you run a guy off a triple screen, and then the last screener comes back off the double stagger. and you either get that shot or the last screener steps in, you get a slip. And we got a wide open shot.

And I'm sure they had scouted it. And, you know, I think he was, what was Bart's last name? Point guard, Bart. Bart Miller? Yeah. Yeah. And all of a sudden,

and you're like, we're in Hawaii, UH's Arena, which is like a 13,000 C place, right? But it's empty because it's Marquette in Oklahoma State. And you can hear him go, BART, Duke, Cuck, Sucker! And he goes chasing. them into the locker room. So our

locker rooms are next to each other. And keep in mind that because I had worked camp and I knew all of the guys, I actually did the personnel Skyder Report for the game. Like I stood up for the team. I had the manager work with me. We did the write-out. I handed up. Like, I was like an assistant coach for it.

So I, so meanwhile, their locker room is next to ours and he's MF and him and CS in and everything. And Coach Sutton comes in and he's, he's look at me, shaking his head, he's like, you want to play for him? He's like, you couldn't play for him. I was like, yeah, I could, I could play for him?

And like, that was our halftime discussion was, could Gottlieb have played for Mike Dean? Right. It was, it was amazing. So what was that experience like of, I've always interested, the second time around, now you're playing at Marquette, what was your experience like there? You know, it was great. I mean, it really was. You know, because Mike was, you know, you call it. the Mike on my recruiting visit. I was coach

Dean, Coach Dean, Coach Dean, and he... Call me, fucking Mike. Call me, Mike. Call me, Mike. Call me Mike. Do I call you... Do I call you player? And I'm like, no. And he goes, don't call me, don't call me coach. So then, from that point, I was like, okay, between the lines, it was

game on. I mean, anything goes, he got India, he coached you. And then out, you walk off the lines and to me, I just always thought he was just Mike. He was Mike. And so the experience was was a nice one. It was, it was, it was well needed from my, from my experience in Texas A&M because it was, I needed, I needed that Midwest. I can, you know, that's what I grew up. So it was kind of almost

the opposite of what you were just saying. I grew up in that Creighton and that Jesuit atmosphere, you know, the school like that, and just in the city and things like that. So it was a great experience. And now, you know, we had, we had, um, some talent. We had a kid that ended up having to leave the team, our best player, Jared LeVette, like, halfway through the year. So then our wins and losses were, I think we ended up being 15, 15, and they fired them. And I'm like, son of a gun. This is now I'm two coaches and two, you know, three coaches and three years I'll have. I'm like, and the AD comes in, Bill Cords and tells us, and I'm like, well, who are we going to hire? And he looks at me like, who are you?

Like, who is this red shirt little guy walk on? Are you even any good? and I was kind of like, okay, I'll sit here and be quiet now. And then that's when a few months later, a few weeks later, whatever, Coach Green got hired. So it was the whirlwind. Those 9-11 months, 2-11 months were crazy. What was Kreen like? And I know you worked for him later, but as a player, what was it like? It was intense.

I mean, he brought it every day, and he set the tone in the way that we were going to, we were going to practice. It was just different. It wasn't like it was the demand and the intensity, and at the pace of which you did it was different. You know, Mike and my dad both could coach. They both could, you know, they were intense. But the intensity and the pace that first year

was really something that we all were like, okay, this is different. and he brought it every single day. He really did. I mean, he was the same level of intensity every day. And I do think our team was well coached, too, prior and during, which was nice for that transition because he upgraded some talent, obviously, brought in Wade and Merritt and Deiner and Novak, and, you know, that was better.

You got rid of me, and they added Deiner. That's a good come-up right there. But it was intense. It was intense, and he got better. I mean, there was different work level and workload for sure. Did Wade set out that? He was a proffoyer, wasn't he? Yeah, so he sat out my, what was my fifth year.

Yeah. And his freshman year, he sat out. So, you know, we had a very good, we had me, DJ Stevens, Darren Horn, and D. Wade were four of the second stringers. So our first, our practices were pretty good. And coach was, the best thing about coach was he treated Wade like he was playing the next day. And he didn't let him take a day off. He's all of us. But, you know, even though Wade was sitting out.

I find Tom Crean to be an amazing guy to be a really, really good human being. I had no idea until I've gotten to know him somehow thoughtful and earnest he can be. Did you, this is, and you obviously, it's hard now to say it and it not sound honest, but did you know that Dwayne Wade would be a Hall of Fame player when you played with him on the second team? No, I, no, no, I knew by the end, I remember coach one time turning and snap into me, like, you better tell your brother and dad to get into practice. We got a pro on our hands because they were both with the Grizzlies at the time. And that was towards the end of this season.

And I had no idea he was going to be as good as he was. I did. By the end, you knew he was a pro. But I didn't, I had no idea he was going to be what he was. I would hung out with him more. Come on. Okay, so you get, you get done. You get done.

And didn't you go to, like, Garden City as an assistant at first? My first year was Ocala, Florida, down in Central Florida Community College. Then I went to Garden City Community College out of Kansas, yeah. Who was at Ocala? Ocala was Gene Smith, who was at Wichita State. my dad and Dick Bressace were at Bradley. And then Earl Dittle was at Garden City, who was at Indiana State, Coach Larry Bird. So I had some mentors.

I was really, I was fortunate. I didn't realize I had the mentors at the time, but I really did. So was that was the plan, hey, let's go work for a couple of old heads and then eventually get to be an assistant and then get a job? Or was it, were you just, I mean, again, I'm just interested in. how you decided to go to Ocala, Florida, and Garden City, Kansas. My options were Bruce Pearl had just gotten hired at UW Milwaukee. I was in Milwaukee, and I was finishing my master's because I had redshirted, and so my fifth year of plan, all I had to do was finish my thesis,

so I got my master's that last year. And Bruce Pearl had offered me to be a video guy, and back then the video, I mean, it was like, I want to say it was $1,500. I was going to maybe be able to live in the dorm, and I was going to like bartender something. I mean, that's what the discussion was. And that was going to be comfortable for me, though, because I mean, I was sitting there right down the street in Marquette.

I mean, I was probably going to still just be like, you know, a player. And my dad said, if you really want to get into coaching, you need to look into junior college. And two guys offered me jobs, Gene Smithson, through Tim Buckley, had an assistant who worked for Gene Smithson, and Buckley was at Ball State at the time who coached me at Marquette. and then another guy, Chris Jans, who I worked with at Illinois State, and I was obviously in Mexico State.

He was at Howard down in Big Spring, Texas, and I visited both of those schools that decided, and they both offered me a position, and I ultimately decided to go to Central Florida because I was going to be the only assistant there, and at Howard I was going to be like the second assistant. And my dad told me, he said, if you really want to get into coaching,

you need to learn the other side of it. You need to learn junior college you need it. Because I was always a head coach, his son. You know, I was always, I mean, all my memory was was Creighton, Texas A. M. And, you know, he was the Grizzlies. I hadn't seen that, that other tier of basketball. And he told me that you'd do it. Okay, the one thing about Smithson that you still take with you to this day. You don't want to think he was very routine. Very routine. He had,

it was like a menu. So if you, if you printed your practice plan, it was quite literally a menu, and he would check, like you would have shooting drills. And he would, you and it would say, pick two. I mean, it's literally what it was. And so his organization to routine, I've never, you know, I haven't done it to that detail, but it said a lot in the routine. And then Earl Dittle, I still take Earl Dittle, I still take Earl Dittle, protect the house.

And he would build a house, you know, like just a Rob Mullain, essentially. And it was just simple, just get your heels on the house. And it was just, you know, instead of forcing baseline, force and slot, all that kind of stuff. I just remember the simplicity that he taught that defense with. Those are two things that just stood out right away. And then, did Wardle get the job then? You went to Green Bay after that, right?

No, you went to India-IU for a year. Oh, with Porter. With Porter, I forgot. With Porter. So I got the head coaching job at Garden City because Earl decided to go to the women's side, and that was the year Marquette went to the final four. So I was kind of somehow.

They thought I was, you know, pretty hot stuff. and Garden City, Vic Trilly was an assistant at Texas at the time when you and I played. And he was associate AD at Garden City with Dennis Perryman, who was Brandy Perryman's father at Garden City. So they gave me the head coaching job, and I had it for about three days, and then Porter had got in Illinois State and decided to offer me a job,

and I decided to go to Illinois State instead of saying it's hard at Garden City. Give me something about Porter. What about Porter makes him special? His energy and enthusiasm, it's contagious. I think what you see on TV and his, I mean, it is. I mean, his energy enthusiasm. It's just every day he's walking in on his, with quite literally a bounce in his stuff. Isn't it crazy, though, like a guy like that?

You look at his career record and like, well, he had that one year where they went to the Final Four. But the truth is that I've seen his teams play at several different places. You know, when he's at Arkansas Little Rock, he's a hell of a coach. But it's like, it's hard to relate to people. Like you said, the different levels of basketball, the different things you inherit, the luck you have to have. Like, he's not any better a coach because they went to the Final Four. He's just finally recognized as being a tremendous coach because they went to the Final Four. Is that a fair perspective?

Yeah, I mean, we were caught in a 5-8 rule, too, a little bit, where you could sign five guys in one year, eight and two years. Otherwise, you lost the scholarship. So when we went to Illinois State, there was a certain amount of roster kids that they were probably better for the other staff. The nice way to say it. But you had to keep them in a year. Give me the best story you can share. You don't have to name names. At where?

Jucco or Illinois State. Ooh. Best story. Best story. Man, man, I got, well, I mean, at Ocala, Juko, I had to break up a fight between another guy that was working in the athletic department. and my roommate who I was living with, which was a student, I walked in, and they were throwing salt shakers at each other,

and then by the time I got up closer to them, they were throwing fists at each other. And there was like a 19-year-old. He was focused on computers and electronics, and then a former athletic coach getting into it. And that was my waking up, and I had a torn ACL because I tore my ACL the first of the day. on the job at Ocala.

So that was what I was doing my first, probably month and a half in Ocala. When did you meet your wife? I met her at Marquette. She was a trainer at Marquette with the women's volleyball and basketball team. And so when I met her, probably the second year I was at Marquette, and we started Dayton. I knew that I knew any status of mine was going to go down the drain quickly once I was no longer a basketball player and I was smart enough to find a a goal, a piece of gold within her.

Yeah, and I'm sure, I'm sure she was really impressed by, hey, listen, I can make $1,500 at UWM or I go to Ocala, Florida. I got big, big plans. Big, big, big plans. Did she go with you, to Ocala and the Garden City? She actually went to, she's a physical therapist. So she went and did her residency in Sacramento the year I was in Ocala. So the first year, kind of we were doing our own things.

making nothing. And then the second year in Garden City, she visited a lot. Then I went to Illinois State, so I kind of, fortunately, I bridged that gap of Garden City for a nine-month period before I got closer Illinois State while she finished at Marquette, so we were only about four hours away. And then did you guys get fired at Illinois State, and that's why you went to Cream Bay? No, I went to Marquette. So I went to Marquette. So I got fired, and then I went to Marquette as a video coordinator, Kreen.

You know, I created a position for me. I didn't know anything about video, and he allowed me to learn it, and he gave me some time to learn it, and I spent a lot of time in the office doing it. And I thought I was there for a year, and then we went down to Indiana. So I was there, yeah, and then that's when we went to Indiana. What was that like to test?

When you guys took over to Indiana, it was a mess. Like, people forget how big a mess it was. It was. I mean, Coach, you know, the coach, Coach did he grind. With Tim Buckley, Benny Seltzer, and we ended up having Rashom Klaude, ended up coming on board, Jake Grossman. And we had a great staff that came with us and really, really kind of navigated. We didn't have any scholarship players. You know, that was part of the potted plant incident where Eli Holman was throwing the plant that was on the bottom line of ESPN all day, that there was an incident in the IU basketball office.

And Eli ended up going transfer into Detroit, and I had to deal with him for another two years playing him on the court. He's a good player, and we actually halfway joked about it the next few years. But, yeah, I mean, coach's energy and just kind of relentlessness to get that thing going to where they did. I think they were number one in the country within four or five years. And we didn't have a whole lot to work with. we didn't have a whole lot to work with at all.

What was Brian Worrell like to work with? That was unique. He was great. He was great to work with. But it was unique because we were such good friends. Right. I mean, like your former teammates together at Marquette. Brian was a tremendous player at Marquette.

Yes, very good. Every pass I had was drawn and designed to throw to him, and I was going on the other end to play defense. Sometimes I guarded his guys along with my own, but we won't tell him that. But he was great. You know, what he did was he really, he didn't hide the fact that this was,

he was young, he was getting, he got a job, and was trying to learn it, and he put people in place that he trusted, and we just had a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun, just trying to find players. I mean, it was like putting a team together that if we were sitting there in the dorm, saying, like, pick your top five.

I mean, it's kind of what, I mean, it was a great experience. It really was, and we had some success. It was pretty cool. You left there to go, didn't you go to Iowa to junior college? I went to junior college in Kansas, junior college in Kansas from Green Bay.

Yeah, I was there for, I ended up living in Kansas for two years. I stayed in Wichita, Kansas for two years, yeah. What happened? I had gotten after about, I don't know when it was. I was the head coach for a little bit, and then had gotten pulled over and accused of a DUI.

And fortunately, you know, you move forward on mistakes that were made, and you make four, and, you know, without getting into all the details, that, you know, it's not something that, you know, the situation I really grew from, and, you know, Unfortunately, it wasn't, it wasn't as for trade necessarily, but still, you know, for me, for publicly, it wasn't, it wasn't something that I could stand up. Right. It sucks. So I guess here's the question. Harder to call your wife or your dad? Probably my wife, because then it was just probably my wife. Yeah, that conversation.

and you have support. You have support through, you know, trying to figure out everything and really, you know, the support of knowing, okay, we got you, and let's figure out what the next step is and what happened and things like that. How did you get, how did you, so what was the process of getting back to where you now are the head coach at S.I.U. Edwardsville, like, from that point, because you're going through all these things and your dad is sick, get sick, right? Like, this is a lot. This is a lot. Yeah.

How do you go from there to here? People such as you, obviously, family. And then simply putting your head down and saying, okay, this is what ultimately matters. And I got to figure it out. And it's our mentality right now. It's our mentality right now where it's, I call it our find a way. Everything you do, you've got to find a way to just figure it out. It's the best way to say it.

There's no rocket science to it, but I put my head down. I reestablished who I wanted to be defined as. You didn't get worried about trying to explain yourself, trying to tell your side of the story, and just simply being who you are. You know, you're defined sometimes in this business as a coach, as a player, And what you want to be defined of is more a little bit of who you are. And so when I didn't have a locker room for the first time, quite frankly, in my entire life, I didn't necessarily know how to define myself.

And ultimately, you just, you are who you are. And you just started, I started thinking. I started being a parent in a way that I looked at it in such a great way. And I started writing. I started talking. and Coach Green hired me on at Indiana. You know, people who really wanted to know the truth and knew me, understood, and gave me an opportunity.

And that's what I did. I had a lot of people give me an opportunity because they took the time to understand what had gone on and who I am as a person. Your dad is sick, and you get the job at Edwardsville. You, first is the interim, and then you get that you actually name the head coach. Yeah. What was that like? It was a, it was a crazy two days because you saw where it was trending on how things were going on.

With him or with you or both? With everything, to be honest with me and him. And he was talking less. He was moving less. He wasn't walking anymore. He's living in a nursing home. You know, we didn't know what the next step for me was going to be because, you know, the way the team was and, you know, just numbers alone. I mean, we're all aware of this business.

So when you go from walking into a meeting going in thinking, okay, I'm going to have to find my next job elsewhere, and I'm also going to have to figure out how I'm going to be able to spend time while doing that with someone that I'm close to losing to then within about 24-hour period being named head coach. and driving to a couple recruits, and then one of which was in Chicago, and I go over three days or two days later, and walking in with a shirt that one of our administrators said, hey, give this to your dad right before I left. And I drive up there, and I give it to him, and his smile and his hug, and we have an unbelievable picture.

It was, I've experienced moments of power these last few months, and that was one of the most powerful moments of my life where I walked in and saw, saw my dad realize you know you did it you you you worked you earned it you overcame and uh and there's nothing like that man there's nothing like seeing that in your father's eyes

who who I know a lot of people reached out to you and it's your dad was a beloved figure who's the person who like blew you away with something they said after he passed man you know

uh there There was a guy named Reggie Morris. You know, Porter Moser, the most powerful moment was I come around the corner, we're following the hearse in the limo. And it's my wife, my family, my immediate family, my wife, my brother, sister, my cousin who's like a sister to me and my mom and my dad's brother, I'm sorry, sister and her brother and her, his brother-in-law. And I come around the corner, and S-I-U-E had sent our team.

And wow. seeing that Cougar bus in front of my dad's funeral in front of the hearse. Never. Like, I can't even explain it. I'm getting joked up now. And walking in there and seeing my team. There's no words. There's no words.

And then from there, there was stories, and a guy named Reggie Morris stood up, and he played for my dad. He's a two-time state championship out of, I believe, Grandview, Missouri now. And he played for my dad, coach with my dad, and he said, you know, one thing that Coach Barone always did a great job of was he basketball takes so much away from you. It takes your time as a coach, and it takes your time as a player, takes your time all the time. But one thing, he always did a great job, and I instill it on my team and within my own family is that he always put family into basketball. He didn't let basketball take away from family. And that was a moment where I just kind of sat back on my heels, and then Porter stood up there, and Porter Moser stood up.

and set in front of everybody. He was, Brian doesn't even know this, but what he did, what that team did, was what Coach Barone was for them to support somebody like they did, getting up at 415 in the morning, driving from the St. Louis area to a funeral up in Chicago. So he, and I didn't know it, and those things, you know, he talked to my team, and, you know, Porter, that's family. And those are the things that, those two things, three things, took my breath away. They still do.

even when I talk to you now. It's unbelievable. Last thing. Yeah. S.A. Edwardsville hadn't been, back when they were good, Marty Simmons was there, it was a Division II program. Very good coach. D1 is hard.

And it's hard when you're a, you know, whether you're a directional school or you're not. I mean, even S IU has had its problems, let alone S IU Edwardsville. What's the process you intend to take year one in building this thing? I think it's about relationships. I really do.

I think, you know, and it couldn't have been, if you're going to take something out of the passing of my dad and the things that I've heard, and it was like he was talking to me and not trying to be kind of, you know, it's weird about it or anything. But I think what they, everyone who stood up, his Creighton team, Bob Hart said,

those guys I talked about earlier, when they stand up and they were talking, it was about the relationship that he had. And I think it totally starts with the relationship. It wasn't always, you know, cozy, and it wasn't always, you know, flowery, and he wasn't always being the nicest guy. But there was a genuine relationship, and I have to start with a genuine relationship. I've got to walk into every day with an energy and enthusiasm every single day to demand effort.

And I have to have the relationship to demand it and to push these guys from being, you know, something that they have never been, just something that we were going to. to be and that's that's the that's the the base that's the thing that I think's that was lacking here and that will not be lacking I know under my watch that is for sure awesome well you have a fan and a friend in me and of course you have all those you have all those kids that you have them you got you gaggle of kids you got to stop having kids but it is does provide a good cheering section I love that you let it does I love that you let let let let let let let let me help tell your story and I want to I want to recap it as you get to year one but you got

we got to go through all the different tribulations the ups and downs and what this is actually like how you say the word and you know I you said it to me and I you help me with a friend by the name of great Kloston's dad passed away who you were at those camps probably floating that keg with back of Marquette and his dad passed away and you gave me advice about six years ago and I don't care if I've told you I can't tell you enough you told me to tell my dad why I love him not not that I love him I'll tell you right now the day of, I whispered in his ear. I've said it several times, but I leaned down right before he passed away,

and I told him all the reasons I loved him, and I will never, ever remember that, or forget that advice, and it's the best advice that I've gotten, and it's the best advice that you should continue to share. I'm jealous of you because I didn't get to tell my old man. It's something you learn from experience, just like we learn from experience in this game. Hey, I'm so happy for you and your family. I know you've earned this. It's been a long time coming, and, uh,

I look forward to catching up soon. Doc, thanks for everything. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays in noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific. All right, so some pretty emotional moments there at the end. Obviously, that is the advice that I would give to any of you about how you should interact with your dad, with your mom, especially if they were a coach, but even if they're not. And that was pretty awesome. awesome. You know, for a guy who was, you know, coach's son to kind of scrap her as a ball

player, to scrap her as I'll do anything to be on a bench as a juco assistant and then a head juco coach and then, you know, an assistant in college and you see all the jobs that they lost into a video guy and to now becoming a head coach at Division 1 level and got that job before his father passed away so his dad knew they'd finally done it. It's a pretty special journey. I hope you enjoyed joining me on and listen to Brian and what he's accomplished. And we'll see what he does accomplish there at a place that it's hard to win at the Vision One level. A reminder, you can listen to the Doug Gottlieb show every afternoon, 3 to 6 Eastern Time on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app.

We're also on Sirius XM. One of them is 203, one's 217. It's basically the Dan Patrick channel. My thanks for listening. We'll continue with some of these great stories. and great basketball people. Tell a friend about it, tweet it out, put it on your Facebook page,

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This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

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If we didn't talk ever again, I was calling me. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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