The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb - All Ball - part 1 of 2 - w/special guest Scott Brooks

Episode Date: September 14, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as an TV analyst and radio host. Join us this week as Doug brings you another great story, in part one of a special interview with Scott Brooks, head coach of the Washington Wizards. Follow Doug on twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Man, there's been so much great feedback over our long interview with Jay Bill. Part 1, Part 2, which of course is still available. Just wherever you downloaded this podcast, type in Jay Billis and Doug Gottlieb or Jay Billis All Ball, and you'll find Part 1, Part 2. I wanted to welcome you in. Remind you that the Doug Gottlieb show runs daily from 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific Time, on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio.com, and, oh yeah, by the way, if you missed it, or do you have satellite radio?

And our satellite station, XM83 right now, is running TV programming instead. So you miss you're like, man, I really like to hear your radio show, a condensed version, all the sorts of versions, individual interviews. Wherever you download iTunes, just type in Doug Gottlieb show and you will have it. This week's guest, and look, I could get into the ACC and the Big East and the Big 12 and all releasing schedules. Or I'll give you a second on Russell Westbrook's injury and the subsequent surgery and he's going to be out for the preseason. Give you some thoughts on that in a moment. but for the most part, we're getting you ready for the upcoming NBA and college basketball season. We'll look forward to the college basketball schedule in the coming weeks.

But I don't want to waste our time. We've got a great guest. His name is Scott Brooks. Scotty, of course, most of you remember, was the head coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder and is now the head coach of the Washington Wizards. But I, having known Scott for, wow, now you start to track yourself, like, how long have I known him? I'm going to go about 30 years, a little bit more than 30 years. I can honestly tell you that he's an incredibly interesting guy, also a great dude,

but super, super interesting. His life story is one that I'm not sure most of you know, and I want him to tell it. And then we'll get to little side stories about making the NBA from being a CBA player, making his way first to UC Irvine. UC Irvine was super, super talented back in the day. I used to go to their basketball camps and watch them play at Crawford Hall. My dad was an assistant at Long Beach State before they lost their job and then watching UC Irvine play.

So I can remember what it was like to watch the Anniers and watch Scotty Brooks, but how he made it from there to the NBA, playing for over a decade in the NBA to becoming an assistant. Also, he was a head coach in the ABA. I want to get to him with that. Talk about playing with the Sixers with Charles Barkley, what his interactions and ultimately his friendship was what Charles Barkley was like, winning an NBA title with the Houston Rockets, becoming an NBA assistant coaching with the Supersonics and then Thunder, and then PJ gets fired and he gets the job, and then, you know, going to the NBA finals

and losing in the NBA finals and having all the injuries in a couple subsequent years and never getting back to that moment before losing his job, what it was like to lose a job, to sit out, to wait, why the Wizards, and how can he fix the Wizards? Man, there's a lot to get to. So that's kind of the ultimate teaser. Let me first start with this thoughts, because you're going to hear from Scotty on what it's like to coach Russell Westbrook,

his honest perspective. I think you'll enjoy it. So Russell had his knee cleaned up. And remember, this is a guy who had, was a torn meniscus, Patrick Beverly, in kind of like a Scotty Brooks type of way. We're going to talk about this. The backup point guard,

you have to be just tougher than a $2 steak. You know, you've got to be willing to put your nose in there. Maybe get a steal when a guy goes to call a timeout at midcourt. That's when Patrick Beverly mistakenly, Stakenly bumped into Russell Westbrook's knee. Russell tore his meniscus, and then, of course, the first surgery didn't take. And that next year was honestly what led to Scotty Brooks' dismissal as head coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder.

I think the fear with Russell is it's not that he plays hard and that his knee won't be fine when he comes back. Plenty of guys have had their knee scoped, plenty of athletic guys have had their knee scoped and we're still very, very good athletes. The fear, though, is that anytime you go in on somebody's knee, anytime you go in and fix even an elbow with Tommy John, the more you go in, you run the risk of infection, you run the risk of not being the same and of chronic pain and of a shortening of career and a lessening of athleticism. And Russell Westbrook is arguably the best athlete.

Of the great players in all sports, he might be the best overall athlete when you combine speed, quickness, toughness, lateral and vertical athleticism. I mean, he's got it all. And so does this slow him down even a notch and progressively more so? And does it expose the fact that his jump shot has never really been a consistent weapon from beyond three point range? I think that would be my fear. Also, if you remember, the argument for Paul George staying in Oklahoma City and the argument that I've made for Oklahoma City being the second best team in the West is, look, they're going to be better together the second time around.

Another full training camp, another year of Russ and PG, and others playing together. Frankly, they set themselves up very nicely with Dennis Schrooter, who will get a chance to play major minutes early on. I like Schrooter as a backup point guard more than a starter. But I think it's going to be fascinating to see if the consistency and continuity, minus obviously Carmelo Anthony, but the addition by subtraction, of losing Carmelo Anthony and the consistency and continuity, keeping the same coach, keeping most the same roster, adding in Dennis Schrooter, that ultimately benefits the Oklahoma City Thunder

now that they don't have Russell Westbrook for training camp. Kind of interesting, right? We'll keep you updated on that, get you ready for the NBA season in the coming weeks. I thought this would wet your appetite, though. Let's get to our discussion with Scott Brooks. It's a two-parter, and I think you'll enjoy it. If you have any questions or comments, at Gottlieb show is the Twitter handle. So let's welcome in the head coach of the Washington Wizards, a longtime friend, Scott Brooks. All right, let's welcome in to the all-ball podcast,

the head coach of the Washington Wizards. Scott Brooks joins us. And Scott, look, I want to get to the whiz. I want to get to your time with the thunder. But I want to start with you as a person and you as a player because when I first got a chance to watch you is when you're at UC Irvine, averaging like 23, 24 a game playing at Crawford Hall. And I think you played a year or two of the Brenz.

I think you played all the Bren Center, maybe. Yes, open up the Brenn Center. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot I want to get into, but you grew up in like the Sacramento area, right? Where's French Camp? Well, it's about, I would say it's about 60 miles south of San Francisco. I was born in French Camp, moved to the young. age about maybe five or six miles south to a small town in Lathrop.

Youngest of seven, my father left when I was two. Never did see from them or heard from them. No child support. No doctor. My mom raised us on her own, along with governmental aid until I was about seven years old, and then she decided, you know what, no more help from the government. We're going to do it as a family, and that's when I started picking walnuts. topping onions on the weekends just to make ends meet.

No way. Okay, so give me the oldest to you being the youngest boy, girl. Three older brothers, three older sisters. I think my own, I shouldn't say, I think my oldest sister is almost 64, and I'm 53, and three older brothers and three older sisters. Okay, so seven people, single mother, and you guys. kind of all picked out. Everybody had a job. You really did pick walnuts and do what with onions?

Top onions. You put them in the sack and you move on to the next. It can't do with onions. You know, walnuts. It was two. Bunkets to a sack and you didn't get paid for it. You didn't get paid a lot of sack, but you got paid enough at the end of the day. We get it. That's the only way we had to do it. We had no other choice. It was tough. I have two kids and, you know, I said all the time, I don't know how my mom did it. I really don't know how my mom did it. My wife and I, sometimes we struggle with him, the schedules of two kids,

and with alone seven all by herself. God bless her. She was incredible. She was my hero. I couldn't have been a great for a better mom and a better role model than I had. So when did you, did you always hoop? Because, I mean, for people who don't, and it's really interesting, you know, like, there's a, there's a disconnect.

between sometimes between fans and the reality of basketball. Like you were a great athlete, a great score, and it's, you know, how you made it in college, and then you obviously had to find a role in the NBA. And, of course, then, you know, you went to coaching, and you had to find a way to Eurana staff and then became a head coach. And then just kind of like the ultimate survivor. But I think people will always underestimate your athletic ability just because, you know, your 5-11 white dude, were you always like athletically talented?

No, I'm saying, I'm being, like, we're just being honest here, right? Like, that's just, you know, like, 511 white dude walks in the gym, everybody's, shoot her, right? And you were a great shooter, but there's more to it than that. So, like, were you all, were you, did you, stay at home, we can shoot? Yeah, were you always, were you good athlete in everything? Did you always hoop? Like, what was it like growing up when, you know, you got six brothers and sisters

and you're the youngest, what was your athletic career like? Oh, you know what? I always, I played just about everything growing up. I love to compete. You have to compete. You get beat up quite a bit. And my mom never babyed me and never, at least I like to think that my brothers and sisters disagree with me on that. But I feel like, you know, I've always been a pretty good athlete.

I was able to do a lot of things with my speed. But I love baseball. I love football. I love soccer. I love it all. I just love to compete. And I think that's the thing that I'm always. I always try to instill into my team that you've got to go out there and compete.

That's what you're going to love to do. I've always loved it growing up. All right. So you go to Manteca High School, right? Well, no, so East Union High School, which is in Manteca, California, okay? That's around the Sacramento area. How'd you come to sign the TCU? Well, quite frankly, there was no one option.

I wanted to go to UOP. My high school coach, who was like my father's, did your Bill Stricker played at UOP, he played overseas a little bit, but he was very role model. They said I wasn't good enough. I wasn't quick enough. I wasn't tall enough to go to U.O.P. and get a scholarship, and I couldn't afford college.

Nobody in my family went to college. I didn't really know much about college, but my high school coach guided me. And fortunately for me, one of the CCU's former assistants left the staff to be next to his mother that was not doing well and started coaching in a local high school in series, not too far from Antica. And he spotted me and he called up to TCU's coach and he said, hey, you got to give this Brooks kid a scholarship.

The coach said, okay, I will. So he called me the next day and offered me a scholarship. I don't see it. That's how it was. And, you know, I'm thankful for it because I wouldn't have been able to get to college and go to college without a basketball athletic scholarship. So you go to TCU and what was your freshman you're like?

You know, I had a decent freshman year. It was the first time away from home, so I struggled a bit there. Home sick. I was a lot sick. My girlfriend, which, you know, fortunately for me, I ended up married 25 years. And so that was one of the reasons why I decided to leave, teach you and go to UC Irvine or through a junior college. But it was good. You know, the conference was great.

Fais Slamma-Jama, Yusina, Joe Klein in Arkansas, SMU, had John Conkack. I think it had three or four top 20 teams in the conference. I had great teammates. Jamie Dixon was my teammates. He's a coach at TCU now. Dennis Knott was a teammate and a great player. I had just a lot of teammates.

I had a lot of fun, but I just wasn't for me. I just felt like I had to go and try something else. I'm glad it worked out because I had a great time at UCRivine. Okay, wait, so you came home, though, because in addition to being homesick, because of your girlfriend who became your wife, right? So this wasn't one of those, like, people always say, like, don't follow the girl. There's plenty of girls, but this actually worked out for you. You know what? I'm not embarrassed, but it was, it was ill fiddable.

My mom was not happy with me. My mom, oh, my gosh, my mom was, I didn't think she talked to me for like two months. She was so disappointed in me because she thought, you know, I would never get a scholarship. again. I would never go to college again. But yeah, I was, I mean, it was a long way from home, and I just felt that there was something better for me out there. Like I said, I'm glad I did it because I really, really enjoyed my time. I'd be sure if I wanted a great university academically,

athletically, really helped me become a man and become the athlete, and then player I became. Okay, so, and you went to junior college in between, and you played a junior college, though, right? Yeah, you know what? I did. They had, they just won the state championship. San Juan King Delta, junior college, Rob DeWitt was the coach. They had really a really good team, obviously. When the California State Championship was a big deal,

junior college basketball in California was high, high level. So they had one player that left, and he was the guard and the point guard. So it was a perfect position for me to be, and I played there, and we were number one for just about most of the season. We go to the tournament, rank number one, play the 16th ranked team, Riverside, and we end up getting upset. So it was a disappointing finish to my junior college career, but neither there. I really loved it. It was a great opportunity.

It gave me an opportunity to get to Irvine. So you go to UC Irvine, and what I think people, like, you know, people nationally have no idea about the amount of talent that you got, that, that, that you guys had there. It was really, like Bill Mulligan did a, they did a great job, not just evaluating but recruiting and landing

kind of all this talent. So you get there, what, 85, 86? Who was on your team? Yes. We had, we had four NBA players that made the NBA

on my team, my junior year for a mid-major. And what's crazy? Coach Mulligan kicked off two other guys who played in the NBA a long time.

Ronnie Grandeur, I think he played six, seven years in the NBA, and Tom Tover played, I don't know, seven or eight or nine years in the NBA. And we would have had six NBA players on one mid-major school. What a great team we've had.

We beat UNLV twice that year when they were ranked in the top five. Just a great opportunity. He's a great recruited. The funny thing is how he recruited me. He went to the state tournament. The state tournament was so backed up. It was two hours late. And he happened to sit next to Jim Killingsworth, who was TCU's coach.

and they were good friends from all the battles they had at junior college. And he looked at Coach Mulligan and said, hey, you've got to recruit this, Brooks kid. I had him for a year. I was so disappointed that he left and it really, you know, it bothered me, but I'll tell you what, recruit him. He's really good. So fast forward, Mulligan does not stay for our game because it was so late.

I think we started like at 930 or 10 o'clock at night. And he calls me the next day and offer me a scholar. side on scene. So what a way to get two college scholarship side on scene. So you show up on campus there, and did you know that, did you know that

the UCI was that loaded? Like, you had any idea, Todd Murphy and Johnny Rogers were that good? I had no idea how good we were. I just thought, you know, I thought we were this great university close to, you know,

Newport Beach, a beautiful campus, great teammates. I just thought we were just going to have a lot of fun. They were all kind of like they all kind of looked like they were just off the beach. But they were competitive. I just thought, man, I got to step up my game. These guys compete and they're athletic and they're big and they're strong. They're quick and they can shoot. Johnny Rogers, Todd Murphy, they're great shooters in their 6-9, 6-10, 6-11 range.

And I'm thinking, man, I've never seen guys this big could shoot the ball and run the floor and move around like they did. But I knew that we were really good. And like I said, what a great experience I had. And Coach Mulligan had a great run. Kevin McGee was the all-time best player. I mean, it's a shame that he never played in the NBA because he was by far the best player ever played at Irvine.

Ben McDonnell, Bob Thornton, they just had Wayne Engelstaff. They had a lot of NBA players during like a three or four year stretch there, but it was because of Mulligan. What a great recruiter. Okay, so what was he like as a coach, because, again, there were all those players, and it seemed like every year you guys would beat UNLV, and yet you couldn't get to the tournament

because only UNLV would get there, and the league was really good. Was he not that good of coach? I mean, you went, like, your first year, you averaged like 10 a game. I remember your second year you average, like 23 a game. Did you guys not play defense? Like, what was missing there?

Yeah, you know what? Great coach, great recruiter, fun guy. I mean, crazy, but in a fun way. He taught me a lot about offensive basketball Our defense, you know, we weren't as good as we needed to be, and that was obvious. But our offense, we were way ahead. He was a pro-offensive coach before any college coach played that way. We were fast-breaking.

We were shooting quick. We were shooting threes my senior year at a pretty good clip. But he was – I thought he was very animated, and he was loved by the players because he was a lot of fun, fiery our half-time, legendary sessions. You know, things were thrown, chairs were thrown, and it was a fun time to be an anteater. Okay, so you get done playing. You average about 23.8, almost 24 points a game.

And by the way, like, people should go back and look, as you point out. You guys shot twice as many threes as your opponents. And as a team, you shot 41% from three, which is great numbers even today. And that was right before others embraced the three point shot, averaging like 86, 87 a game. Okay, so how did it happen that you went to the CBA? Because I don't know if you remember,

but this is right about the time of the, my dad was supposed to coach a team in the IBA, which was a six foot four and under league. They were going to play at the Brenz Center. And you were the first, I think the first overall pick of the, draft. And Bo Jackson, by the way, was his last pick. I don't know if you remember that. And, okay, so you get done playing and what happens?

Well, you know, it's funny. Your dad, Coach Gottlieb, we meet at Coco's right next to the airport, and he's saying that we're starting the league, and I'm thinking, okay, that's great, but I want to make the NBA. But this was going to give me a great opportunity to keep playing. and at the time they were offering it was going to be a pretty good salary. I can't remember. I thought it was like $20,000 for like three months or four months, and it was six four and under. It was very intriguing, and I was looking forward to, you know,

if things don't work out, which, you know, there was a good chance they weren't going to work out initially that I would have something to fall back on. Unfortunately, it didn't really take off in Irvine. But then I went to the Summer League in Los Angeles, and they had two divisions. They had a NBA division with a lot of NBA teams, and their first, second, third year players, and guys who are trying to make a team,

and then they had the free agent division. Basically was saying, pay your 400 bucks, we're going to throw you on a team, and nobody's going to watch you, and we're going to tell you that everybody's scouting you. So we paid my 400 bucks. I was on a team. I was small forward on that team,

and we were playing like at 7.38 o'clock in the morning games where nobody was there, other than your girlfriend or your parents in the stands. But it gave me an opportunity to compete. But I stayed there all day. Doug, this is the thing that really made me. And I tell my kids, and I tell when I speak to kids, you can't expect anybody to give you anything,

but you have to be ready to answer the call and be there and always be around. And so what I did, I got into my pickup truck with a sick lunch and got to the L.M.U. like at 7 a.m., beat the traffic to L.A., and I stayed there every single day, all day, and watching NBA practices. And coaches at that time, they needed players to participate in practice because guys were hurt and guys laughed. So coaches would see me and ask me to play, so I practiced, like, for three or four different NBA teams.

But the head of the summer league saw me and offered me to job. Larry Krieg. Larry Krieg. Larry Krieg. Larry Craig, and I think Mitcho, Coach Mitchell. But Larry, Larry, they offer me to be the starting guard on the All-Star team that was playing against the Russian national team in Atlanta Hawks. They're kind of like their combo team. They were traveling around all the summer leagues to play.

And that's how I got spotted. I played, and I played well. Doc Rivers, Budweb was on that team. And Marcellonis was on the team and a bunch of other players. I don't remember. but I played extremely well the next day I got an offer to go to vet camp with Detroit Pistonson, Philadelphia 76ers,

and that changed. That game alone changed my career, but it was because I stayed at the gym for like 10 straight days, and they saw that I was watching and waiting for my opportunity. Wow, that's really, okay, so this is your first year out of school.

You play in the, that was back when the Summer League was at LMEU, as you point out, and you end up going to camp with the six. You were going to camp with the Sixers that year? Yeah, with the camp at the Sixers. I thought I played pretty good. Matt Goecus was the coach, but he thought otherwise. I didn't play well enough to even make an exhibition game.

I was cut right before the first exhibition game, and I thought I played pretty well, but I did not. So back then, I don't know if they did it every team, but back then I go to practice, and the equipment manager, Alan Lumpkin, who is now up there in a six-year organization, and it's actually his son, works with me now. He's one of our video guys,

so what a great little side story there. But he calls me, he says, hey, Scott, you just been cut. If you want to keep your practice gear, you can go ahead and keep it, but you've got to go see, I think her name was Mary, the secretary to get your flight out. I'm like, think to myself, wow. that's how you get cut in the NBA. The coach doesn't even come up to you.

The general manager doesn't come up to you. The equipment manager comes up to you say, hey, go get your flight. And so I did. I go to the office, and as I'm leaving to jump on the van to go back to the airport, just so happened to be. I crossed past the assistant coach, Jimmy Lyon. And he set me down for like five minutes and gave me the most inspirational pep talk I've ever had. He was basically telling me, I'm going to make the NBA.

You just got to go to the CBA and you got to stick it out. You've got to play the way you play. You've got to continue to play with toughness. You will be back, and trust me, it will be sooner than you think. And so I went to the CBA and I played. I never got picked up. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Let's slow down because it's a great story, okay?

So you go to Albany. Was Albany your first choice? Was it your only choice? You go to play for Bill Musselman, who is, son obviously is doing a great job as coach at Nevada. He's been a head coach with the Sacramento King, he's been assistant all over. And Bill Musselman is one of the original fanatics.

And he was also head coach of the Timberwolves. Like he's like Bill Musselman was crazy. He was a great coach, but he was crazy. But for people who don't know, like, look, and I mean this in all, I mean this is a compliment. Like you were a dick to play against. Like you would want it like in a pickup game and I was a kid. you would want to, you would in fact light me up just to, and like, okay, so this, this,

we'll get to the story in a second, the pickup ball story, but were you, was this always your persona? Was it established when Jimmy Lyham sat you down? It's like, look, you're going to make it, but you've got to be kind of an a-hole to do it. How, Ted, take me through, go ahead. I mean, I'll tell you, I think a lot goes back to my childhood. I wouldn't change anything. I mean, I definitely did not have, did not know that, at that point, I did not know we had no money. I didn't know welfare. I didn't know that nobody else was not living the same way we were living. I was lived, I mean, there was not a lot of, you know, I was, there was not a lot of, I guess, wealth or not a lot of money in the, in the whole entire area.

But it made me. It gave me everything that I have in my belly to make it. I knew I was going to make it, and I refused to be pigeonholed in being called something that I knew that I was not, that wasn't me. I didn't want to be that way, so I always felt that I had to fight for everything. And I always felt, you know, once you're in the competition, it's a fight. You do whatever it takes within the rules to win. And I refused to play any other way. and that's how I was brought up.

And, you know, like I said, my mom raised me that way. I fought. I've been in many fights, and I did a lot of things I should never did as a young kid. But it all changed. I go back to this eighth-grade graduation, June 6, 1979. It changed. I told myself that night that I will be in the NBA, and I will make something out of my life,

and I'm not going to let anybody tell me anything different. And I've been told a lot. I've been told that you look like you're going to be, checking groceries. You're going to be, you know, driving UPS. Not that there's nothing wrong with that, but I felt that I was good enough to be at NBA player. I don't know how I got that.

Wait, wait, by the way, you, you, no, you, you glossed over that with your childhood. Like, that's a great, like, how in the, because I had, I had the exact same kind of vision and dream, and I have it written down my freshman year at Tustin High School. We had to get an apartment. And, because I grew up in, the El Medina district, and my brother, you know, played some point, played some two. El

Medina was kind of a nothing high school. Like, basically like Robbie Gordon was from there and who was a race car driver. And outside of that, like, you know, up until now, we're Freddie Freeman, who's an all-star baseball player. No one really came out of El Medina. And so, especially basketball. So I stayed back in eighth grade. All I want to do was be a basketball player. My dad had a notebook. And he's like, I want you to write down your goals. And I wrote, I want to play in college basketball, I'm playing the final four, I won't play in the NBA. And then he was like, great, those are goals now. Like, with the rest of the notebook, you're going to fill up with what you're going to do,

all the things you're going to do in order to get there. But, like, eighth grade, without a dad, without kind of guidance, how did you come to the, how did you come to your own mind that I'm going to play in the NBA, no matter what anybody says? Well, you know, like I said, it goes back. I've had great mentors alone in a way, and it goes back to my mom. I remember using the word, I can't. I won't play.

can't make the NBA. And she said, what? I said, well, I can't make the NBA. It was going to be like so much bigger than me and faster and athletic. And she said, okay, that's fine. See, these, like, it was like 10 pieces of paper, you know, front and back line paper. She said, I want you to do me a favor. And write on every line, front and back, all 10 pages.

I can't is not a word. And so I had to do that, printed out. And she said, I needed, legible. I need it printed out neatly and take your time. It's not a rush thing. And I took the heart to that, and I really believe Kant is not a word. If you make it a word, it's going to be pretty predominant in your life. But I refuse to look at that word and say, that's going to be me.

I'm not going to let that word define me. And I just felt that, you know what, everybody has to put on the shoes the same way, the short's the same way. why can I put on it the same way as an NBA player does? And I just felt that, you know, I have to earn it. Nobody was going to give it to me. I have to exhaust every opportunity. And physically and mentally challenging myself every day,

and that just goes back, you know, going into the CBA, Musselman. Coach Musselman challenged you not only physically, he challenged you mentally. There's a line you got to cross as a coach. And now that I know, you try to cross that, You try to cross the physical line occasionally, and then you've got to go to the mental line. Some days you've got to do both. But Muscleman, he did both every day as if it was game seven of an NBA finals, and he treated everybody that way.

It really moaning me. I really give him a lot of credit, man. I remember one game. I twisted my ankle so bad. I was playing against this really good guy. He was like a CBA legend. His name was Boop Bond. What a great name.

And he was, I mean, good player. I'm 22 years old. I twist my ankle so bad. It thing blew up like a balloon. And I remember leaving in the second quarter going downstairs in the old armory. And I had to use the restroom so bad. And back then you used the restroom with the fans. And it was like using the urinal.

And then the fans are looking at me. Hey, Scott, good day. I hope you're all right. I hope you back for the second half. Like going to the locker and we have no trainers. I'm looking at my ankle, oh, my gosh, oh, my God, I'm going to do. So at halftime, like, the fire chief comes in, and, you know, he's the, he's basically, like, also the trainer. I think his name is Jack.

So he comes in, looks at my ankle, he said, no, there's no way. There's absolutely 100%. There's no way you can play. So, Coach Muslin is doing this talking and just glossed over me, and he said, you're right? I say, oh, I'm like, like, at that point, I'm, like, stuttering. I'm nervous because he's about to scream at me. I'm like, I don't know.

And then he said, okay, I'll tell you what, you can't play, make sure you go to our secretary tomorrow morning and get a flight back to California. And I'm like, what? I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm good, I can play. So I tied that thing up so tight. And we end up playing in the second half.

To this day, I don't know how I played. I wish I can somehow get videotape of that because I was dragging that leg all along, but I didn't want to get cut. I know this is my chance, and I cannot let it be blown away with just the twisted ankle. I see, are you, did you guys have married? Were you guys married at this point? No.

We were not married, but we were, I mean, it was going that direction. My wife and I, at that time, my girlfriend and I, it was somebody that I knew that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. but it was she came out and and stayed with me in Albany and now at that time my first contract in Albany was a one year non-guaranteed week to actually day-to-day with muscle men no play to play contract every possession of possession but how much how much?

6600 bucks and then what was did you guys get predium she I mean predium was probably predium basically was just enough money to go to like I don't know you went the Sizzlers because they had all you can eat lunch and even the stain there. Take some, take some home with you. Through dinner and then take some home with you.

Yeah. Yeah, or we did this in high school and I did that when I was in the U.S. When I was in the USBL, we would do it too. We'd have like $20 a day. When I was in the ABA, it was $20 a day as well. And we do the Sizzler thing or then we do, you know, like one dude would pay and other guys that sit at the table in order to save money. So you get done, you're on the all rookie team.

didn't you go play in like Fresno and some other random league? Yes, that ended up being a WBL. The league that your dad was going to be a part of. I don't think it actually made it, or they maybe merged with the WBL, the World Basketball League. It was the same concept, 6-4 and under, and I was playing with the Fresno team, played their league. It was like a 50-game, 54 game, 3 months in the summer league.

It was funny that the same guy, the same guys, I was playing in the CBA that they were listed at 6-9 and they trying to make an NBA team. Somehow, some way, they shrunk the 6-4 in the summer to play in the 6-4-under league, which was you had to do it. I mean, there was no money in the CBA, and that league paid, they paid $20,000 per player. I think every player got the same amount of money. In a shocking development, that league did not stay around all that long. Okay, so then how'd you make the Sixers the next year?

Do you go back through the Summer League thing? Or no, you're playing in the WBL, so there was no Summer League. Yeah, there was no Summer League, but Jimmy Lineum ends up taking over for Maddie Goecus, for Philadelphia, becomes the head coach. And so he calls me up, and coincidental Detroit calls me up, the same two teams that wanted to bring me in last year. So he calls me up, and he said they're looking for a backup point guard. They got remote cheeks as a start.

General Henderson, which is like a combo guard. They're at Wingate, and they're thinking about some other guys overseas. And I say, okay, that's great. But Detroit calls me up. Jack Kleski was the general manager. He calls me up. He says, Isaiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, and Vinnie Johnson were the guards. and they were looking for a backup point card,

and it's going to be between Mike Williams from Baylor and myself. And we were going to go in both with the same non-guarantee contract, one year, like, non-guarantee for like $75,000. I said, great. So I committed to them. I said, perfect. I know, you know, just give me a chance, and I'm going to do my best, and that's all I wanted.

So I felt that they were going to give me a great opportunity to be a backup to Isaiah. So Jimmy Lyman ends up calling me. He says, Scott, no, they're not telling you. They're not being upfront with you. It's not going to be an even deal. Mike Williams has like a three-year guaranteed at like $300,000 a year, $900,000. And I'm like, well, no, I talked to them. My agent talked to him.

They said no. So I went back and forth, but finally Jimmy calls me once again, like the night before I was going to fly out. He said, Scott, I'm going to tell you this. And I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I'm going to tell you it, just like, if I was your dad, I would tell you, do not go there, come to Philadelphia. I'm not guaranteeing you a spot, but you have a chance. Detroit, you have no chance. They're not going to cut a player that's going to be guaranteed for three years.

Not going to do it. So I said, okay, perfect. I'm there. Flood out the next day. Fast forward during training camp. I'd have a great training camp, play a while in exhibition, back in that Maurice Cheeks, pressure. him up and down the court. He's doing the same to me. We're not backing down from each other. They like what they saw, and they offered me the job. So I ended up making the team,

but it was because of Jimmy Linum showed and gave me great advice. I mean, he was more than a coach and still is more than a coach to this day, but thankful for him. He made that last call to tell me, do not go there. There's no chance to make the team there. Okay, so here's what I, if you can. and if you can kind of shake your memory. What was the call like or what was the office visit like when they told you they were keeping you? Well, this is interesting. I had a non-guaranteed like $75,000, and it wasn't going to be guaranteed until like December 23rd.

That was the guarantee date. Thank goodness they changed that to like January 10th because there's a lot of unhappy families right around. on that time because you were going to get cut because they didn't want to guarantee the year. But I get the call from John Nash. He calls me and he says, come down, come down to the office. And the office was like right under the old Eagles football stadium. And so I go to the office and, you know, as a 23-year-old kid, it's intimidating. So I go into his office.

I mean, it's big desk, wood desk. I'm sure, you know, high-end mahogany. or Jerry or whatever one it would. But it was like, I still remember that desk. And it was like John Nash was on the other side of shaking something. Okay, I think I'm going to make the team. They kind of told me I was on the team. Barclays told me I was on the team,

but now the general manager is talking to me. So he says, hey, you're going to make the team. Congratulations. But here's what we want to do. We want to give you, we want to rip up your contract and give you a new contract. I'm like, what? This is like way too good to be true. So he says, here's what we're going to do.

We're going to guarantee you $25,000 this year and then give you like $100,000 next year non-guaranteed. And he says, just sign this. And I said, well, I said, I'm not comfortable signing it. And he's kind of like taken back. And he's like startled. He said, well, wait a minute. What do you mean? He said, you need to call your agent.

He said, but I'll leave the room, call your agent. So I end up calling my agent Frank Catapano. I give him the scenario. own what's just the place. And he says, well, you need to sign it. I said, because that's 25 guarantee. You know, some teams, they don't take that lightly. They'll end up giving you, give you the benefit of the doubt to keep you.

I said, ooh, like, I just don't want to commit to them for two years. Next year's non-guaranteed. And that's, and I said, I don't feel comfortable. I just feel, I just stay with my normal contract. If I'm good enough to make it, I'm going to stay on the team. If I'm not, I'm not going to be on the team. It's simple in my eyes. I was real, I don't know, I was real black and white.

It's either I'm on it or I'm not. Just, you know, let me know. So I called Mr. Nash back in. I tell him when I'm going to do, and he says, wow, are you sure? He says, we're looking at a guy that is playing overseas right now, but we're going to bring him in. I think if I can remember the name, I think was Dave Henderson played at Duke. And he says he's really a good guard.

He's a combo guard. He can play a little bit of point of six-five, and, you know, we're going to guarantee him like $50,000. And I don't know, you might not be able to match that. If you don't play well enough, you sure you don't want to sign this? I said, no. And I just, so I looked and run in the eye, I said, if he deserves to make the team over me, I think he should be on the team over me.

I said, I don't deserve to be on the team, but I'm very comfortable with my contract, and I'm very happy with the opportunity I'm given. I shook his hand. And immediately, I give him, it was like funny. We still ask for this all the time when we see each other. He shook my hand, he just said, you know what, Scott? You just made yourself a lot of money. Congratulations.

and then I walked out and ended up playing, you know, over, you know, over a decade. Okay, by the way, you also, that year you started six games. So among the things, like, look, everybody dreams of playing in the playoffs and winning a championship. And even, you know, my whole dream was like, look, I just, all I really wanted was to play one game in the NBA. But to have your name announced. And remember, this is the Sixers. You guys now had Mo Cheeks, but this is Barclay in the height of Barclays powers. This is 25 a game.

People forget that Chuck, and I want to ask you about Chuck in a minute, about how he was a freak athlete. Like everybody thinks just roly, Polly, round, mount, and rebound. But he was an incredible athlete. But anyway, do you remember what it was like the first time your name is called starting point guard for the Philadelphia 76ers, Scotty Brooks? Oh, my gosh.

I remember it. And it was just, you know, everybody in my position, we all said, all I want to do is just, get in a warm-up game or a pre-season game and get in just playing a game and just be able to do that. You know, I play for over a decade in the NBA and I only started six games. And I don't know if I was unlucky that I only started six games, but I look at it. I was, some people say I was unlucky because, you know, sooner or later, a starting point card is going to get hurt for a month or two.

and he's going to, you know, you're going to get an opportunity to start, but I never looked at it that way. I looked at it. I was on the team, and I was always about the team, but when I started, it was such a surreal moment. I don't know what we ended up being, I think we were 5-1 or 14. I ended up playing a lot the game before that because Mary's Chief, I think he separated his shoulder a little bit.

So I played the game before that. But playing along with Barclay, I mean, we can go, we can go, Dave, this podcast can last for an hour straight just talking about the, but what an amazing teammate in person that I'm so fortunate to be able to call a teammate for two seasons. What about him? What do people not know about Charles Barkley that you know? The most generous person, the most giving person I've ever been around. I mean, constantly, and he was known, rightfully so as a tough guy, a badass.

And he had this way about him. him that, you know, you don't mess with him. He was strong. He was quick. He was athletic. He was a freak of nature. I mean, he was 65, maybe, 255, 260 on good days, but extremely

gifted in athleticism and brains. He just had a high IQ, but people don't realize that he was always given, man. He was always. I mean, there's so many stories that just constantly, I played golf with him one day.

and that was a treat. I mean, just to have him see him play in person, it was like so strange because so athletic he is and then he can't play golf. But he loved it, and it didn't even bother him that he wasn't very good. When he's on a golf course, for some reason, the whole community finds out.

And I don't know if it's the starter. I don't know if it's the range guy. I don't know if it's the pro shot. But we turned, we just finished nine. and we're about turning the corner, and I would say, I would say there was a hundred and twenty-five kids waiting for us, or for not us, for Charles, just so happened to be in his court. And he spent, I would say he spent, I don't know, 35 minutes talking to these kids about education, about doing the right things, about playing the right way. And, I mean, I'm just thinking to myself, one, I want to keep kicking your butt, so let's get to number 10, but I wanted to, I just, stay in the moment because this guy was just like spewing out just great information and tidbit

but as a young player for me to see that to see him give back to the community it was great to see what a great role model for me and it's funny he has the commercial i'm not a role model but he he was a great rule model for me did crazy things he did dumb things and he would regret like we all do but you know but he he had a heart of a champion and a heart of you know like i've never seen a player have um that your first year you guys lost to the Bulls in five games. And when I was getting ready, when you say you do this with me,

I just, I wanted to look up some stuff. And this was Michael Jordan's, these were, Barclay had 20 rebounds, 19 rebounds, 20 rebounds, 13, 13, 13, Jordan had 39, 45, 45, and 37. What was, what was Michael Jordan like to be on the other side? You know, and that's crazy.

And I swear, I swear, he only scored in the first. minutes in the last eight minutes. It just seems like he was, you know, just offensively just filling out the game in the middle part of the game, but start the game, he set the tone, and obviously he changed the game. Incredible. I mean, you can argue he's the best player, and some people don't think of the argument. The guy was the best offensive player and the best defensive player, all in the same,

and he was that way for over a decade. It was just, I guess, he could easily have been MVP. every single year. I mean, what's an off year from him? Okay, average 29 this year instead of 33. But he had shots that you didn't make a miss. He missed. It was him. He elevated way over you. He was stronger than most guys, 6-6-2-10, or whatever, how many pounds he weighs. He just had this wiry strength. And, you know, as being a point guard against him, you got Scotty Pippen to 9 on the left side, and you got Michael Jordan Deny on the right side, and that's hard to make the just simple, simple, you know,

passes to the right or left, and you were always like, okay, okay, I see him, I know he's going to still, I know he's going to steal it, and he steals it, and he stills it. And, but just incredible, just to be on that court, that playoff series to me was watching greatness, and I've never, I don't know if anybody's had those type of moments that many games so consistently as he played that series.

Okay, so, what was if you had to pick out the flaw to Barclay? Because I think Barclay now, you know, there's some people say, you know, some guys' games, I don't know how some of the Bigs would translate to now. Barclay, I think, would translate now because athletically, especially in his prime, he could guard all those positions, but did he? Like, the knock on Barclay, I had always heard was like, he never was really bought into defense as good, and even though he could be.

He's a great rebounder and obviously a phenomenal score. Was it was his defense? What is the shooting? What was it that held Chuck back from being just that notch below? Well, you know, to me, there's so many opinions and knocks, you know, about Charles' defense and this and that. The biggest knock that he was playing in the East against Jordan, and there's a lot, and then part of that, it was Boston. There's a lot of good teams, and there's a lot of great players that couldn't get by them, just like the East now. You know, with LeBron eight straight years, it's some guys that you just can't get by.

And Jordan, you couldn't get by him. He just, he was dominant. I mean, if I would say one thing on the court, I mean, RIM protector, he wasn't, I mean, six-five. He's going to do, he competed. I don't think we never had the defensive inside presence there, especially back in the late 80s or 80s and 90s where, you know, Defense for sure wins championships, and you had to protect the pain. You got to protect them.

You were basically playing football back then. So that was a knock on him, but I'll tell you, he rebounded better than any player in the league, and he can score over any big. He had a great sense of the floor. He had a great eye for passing, and he always made some great decisions. And like I said, I thoroughly enjoyed,

every game playing with him. I happened to have lived with him for two months and at his house, and that was also an interesting treat. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I feel like we're burying the lead. Why did you live with Charles Barkley? Well, you know what? I thought he was just being a nice guy.

I thought he was being really generous, which he is. I'm like, that's cool. He's invited me over. I'm living with him. And I stayed there until about December, I don't know, 24th. But how'd the conversation? How the conversation, wait, wait, how the conversation go that you came to live with Barclay? Well, he just, it was not even a conversation.

He said, you're living with me. I'm like, okay, great. So I remember back then they had these, like, phone cars, cards, like $1,800, whatever it was. And you know, that's how you made a long distance calls. I'm calling my mom. I said, you're not going to believe this. Not only am I going to make the team, I'm going to live with Charles Barkley. And she says, oh, oh, you want that?

That's like an interesting guy to be under his wings. But I said, I know, we want it. We want it to get great. So I live with him. It was like no choice. But as it turns out, and this is even makes the stories even better. I was about to sign a lease. And for some reason I could remember these apartments, like Lincoln Green apartment, right, all right on City Line Avenue,

Ballackenwood area in Philadelphia, right behind the Fridays. I was about to sign the lease for like six months. And once you saw an lease, you're stuck with it. So Charles knew that I had a great chance not to stick past the December 23rd deadline. So he did not want me to commit to a lease and sign for six months and be stuck with it for, you know, four and a half, five months after they cut me. But he never told me that until after, and I can remember. And only he can say in these colorful ways, and I cannot tell you or say it over this. over the end you.

Yes, he did. In a PG version, you know, and Bucklehead, you think I really wanted to have this California kid live with me, 23 years old at my house.

No, I did it because I didn't want you to pay $1,000 a month for $6,000 a month because I knew you weren't going to make the team. That's why I brought you in. But what a great guy, what a great story,

what a great roommate. My God, we had the time of my life, and he loved to go out, he loved to have fun, and he's so good. with the public. I've never seen a, never seen a superstar so generous with

his time with the public. I mean, dinner come up to us. I mean, it was almost like, no, he's amazing. He might as well just sit with us. Amazing. No, no, he's, I mean, I worked with him when I was at CBS and you know, even now that we don't work together, like any time with him, like, Doug,

you're coming with me and it's kind of the same thing and you're just, like, you're just, my wife, here's, here's my story with Chuck. So, the first Final Four I do with him. You know, we worked together one weekend in studio, and we had kind of a mutual friend, and I knew him a little bit, and then I name dropped you, like, yeah, I grew up, you know, in the shadow of Scotty Brooks, and so automatically I was good with him.

And so we go to the Final Four, and he's in Atlanta, and he has a place, it's like a condo in the four seasons in Atlanta. It's like a condo for when he works at Turner, and it's right across from Turner. So we get done at the George Dome, and we, I had, you know, the Turner, guys they don't meet. They're like, we're not meeting. And so I, I work for CBS, even though it was a Turner-type broadcast. So they're like, well, they're not, they don't have, Kenny and Charles had to be here, but you and Clark and Greg Anthony is with this time, you guys need to be here like nine o'clock. And the games don't start until, you know, like the afternoon. So we're literally at the dome all day. So we get done. Then we do like an hour and a half or two-hour post game.

And I'm, I'm wrecked. You know, it's like I'm a little on edge. It's my first phone. all four plus I'm working with Charles Barkley and so I get I get done and it's like 11 he's like hey you and your wife you're coming out with us and I was like okay that's great so we go and we're like they have town cars for us and he like tells the town car guy like

you're not allowed to take them to their hotel bring them to the four seasons at the bar so like all right we're going out with Charles Barkley you know and the idea like how many times in your life is Charles Barkley getting a man you go out with him so we go to the four seasons and my wife is not much of a drinker, but Charles picks up everybody's tab literally.

And so he says, young lady, what would you like? And she's like, I'm fine, Chuck. I already have a drink. He said, no, no, no, what's your favorite drink in the whole world? And so I said, Chuck, she likes, she's, you know, she's from a,

she grew up in a trailer, but she has high dollar taste. She likes champagne. And he's like, no problem. What is your favorite? campaign and she's just like, you know, I'll, I'll take whatever. Don't worry about it. I was like, that's not being honest. So we had a, we had a friend who, what's the really, uh, crystal? We had a friend who, uh, they would, they would send us a bottle of crystal every year.

And she and I would have it like our anniversary. I was like, she likes crystal. He's like, no problem. He's like crystal for the lady. So we're having crystal and, you know, it's like one o'clock or one 30. They, they shut down the bar. And so Angie and I were like looking at our watches. And we don't have no kids with us. And, and, you know, we're not. No kids with us. And, and, And so he's like, all right, we're going upstairs. So now everybody goes up to, goes up to his apartment. And so we've been there for a couple of hours. We've been talking.

He walks into the door. He walks right to the refrigerator. And remember, there's like 40 people in this traveling circus following around Charles Barclay. And he goes right to the fridge and he goes and he gets a bottle of crystal and hands it to my wife. And he says, I know this is your favorite. Have as much as you'd like.

You know, we got more where that came from. Like that's just he's unbelievable. And you know how it is. Like when he's sitting there, you're not only are 30, 40 people going up with him, but there's hundreds of people stopping by, taking pictures, shaking hands, whatever. You know,

you probably went through meeting 500 people in the last couple of hours, and yet his first thought when he walks in the door was, this guy I've worked with once, I'm going to get his wife a bottle of champagne because I know that's the one he likes. I've never seen any, I've never experienced anything like that.

And you know what? It's all the time. I can say every day. He would make, he would make more money than he will ever need if he just had a reality show, follow him, or cameras follow him every single day. The guy is so, he is such a people person. There's thousands of stores of my friends.

Hey, I'm friends with Scott Brooks. All of a sudden, they're hanging with him for three straight hours. And they can't believe it. I said, well, he's like that with everyone. I remember the first time we play the Lakers. We fly from Philadelphia to play the Lakers, and all of my college teammates, they could not wait. I mean, for obviously reason, I'm playing on the Sixers, and we're playing against Lakers,

and we've got Magic Johnson, you got Jabbar, you got Warby, Kurt Rambis, Myron Scott, all these great players, and we're playing. And so I go upstairs, the shower and they get dressed in me to all my buddies in the lobby. So it's like, you know, 30 minutes later or so. They're already hanging with Charles, and the next thing I know, I walked down and now Charles and they are having like back then WWF was like our WW

whatever the wrestling thing was it was huge back then so they are having in the middle of the hotel lobby like a wrestling match is with all my college committee and Barclay they're like wrestling each other I'm like what are you guys doing he said nah we're just throwing fucking trash and you were drinking beers and all of a sudden

we said I'm the best wrestling all of a sudden Charles said, I'm the best. And he starts wrestling with some of my college teammates. I mean, the guy is so fun to be around. I love him. Love him. Okay. So then you go to Houston. Your second year, you guys, you know, you guys won a championship. What was dream like? You know what? Incredible. I swear he didn't miss a shot in the entire fourth quarter of every game the year we won in 94. Just incredible. He had so much confidence, so much faith in his teammates. But you know what?

He put you in your place. He wanted you to keep it simple. And simple with him was give me the ball. And it was so simple, but it was so effective. That's why I played a lot in the fourth quarter because we threw the ball into him. And I was smart enough, you know what? We wanted an offense to give it to him. And he said, throw the ball to me.

I score. If they double team me, I pass, you get an open shot. If they don't, I score or get one, get a man one, and get free-full. Easy game. Let's keep it easy. We don't have to do anything else. And we did that. I mean, he can, that guy, I swear, he never fell.

He never fell. He had like a cat. It's such great balance. He's almost like a guy that was six-one, but seven feet tall. He had that much agility and athleticism. And just a great teammate, just like when he spoke and wasn't often, it was like, E.F. Hutton, you stopped whatever you did and you listen because when he was speaking, you knew either you did something wrong or something incredible was about to happen. And he stepped up every single night. What's that feeling like of winning a championship? You didn't get to win one in junior college, as you point out. You didn't win one in high school. You didn't win, didn't get the NCAA tournament. a PCAA even when you're at UC Irvine.

You guys didn't, you know, you couldn't get past the Bullsman with the Sixers. You go to the Rockets in your second year. You win a championship. You win an NBA championship. Considering all the people that I told you you wouldn't make it since eighth grade, now you had made it, you'd started games, you'd stuck your NBA veteran, but to win a championship, what's that like? Doug, nothing like it.

You play, you play, you play, competitive sports to be the last team standing. And I've never been in that position. And it's very difficult. You see some of these players that won multiple championships. I mean, they are so blessed and lucky to be on a team that good, but I was on that team that good to win one year. And to this day, I have a picture after the game.

game seven in Houston. We're at this restaurant, and it's a picture of my wife and I with a championship hat on. She's not a big drinker. I'm not a big drinker, but we were having some champagne, and you can see my eyes that I was, I was feeling pretty good, but to this day I have it on my desk at home, and I pass by it all the time, and it just gives me great memories. You strive to be, and you want to be the best team. Nobody can ever, I mean, obviously, it wasn't even near.

the best player in the league on the team or ever you know but i was on the best team in 1994 and they can never take that away for me and it's something that i will always cherish what a great experience to be the first team ever of all the major sports in houston the winter championship that team really that city just took us in like i've never been taken in before what a great time i mean i want to get back there i was there pretty close as a as a coach with Oklahoma, but not quite. But it would be a great honor and an opportunity to get back there again. Okay, so after you got done, so, you know, you didn't, you got traded to Dallas, right, mid-year the following year,

so you didn't play in the back-to-back, correct? Not only mid-year, but mid-game at halftime. That was, the change the rule. Wait, what? Yeah, at halftime. We were playing at halftime. The trade deadline back then was. was like, I don't know, it was like 8 o'clock Eastern time.

And so there's, you know, every trade deadline of players think, okay, this could be the day I'm getting training. But I remember I was told that day, don't worry about you're not getting traded because my name was thrown out there because I was Sam Casale came on. And he was obviously really, really, really a good player and deserved to play over me. But I knew that I had a chance that they told me that day that I wasn't getting traded. So during the game, after then the first, after the end of the first quarter, the middle of the second quarter, I look up to my wife, and she's in the stands right behind her bench. She gives me a thumbs up, and I give her a thumbs up, meaning that, you know, we survived

another year of not being traded, been there before, and we really loved Houston. We just bought a house, you know, the year before. At home, it was home away from home. So I get into halftime, Rudy Tom Janovich and all the assistant coaches do make all the great adjustments that he is known to do. And I'm thinking, okay, great. So I'm now back on the court in the layup line. The next thing I know the general manager, boy, Lehar calls me out of the line and says, hey, we've got to talk to you. He takes me through the tunnel.

And I have to tell me, he says, hey, you just been traded. And I'm like, what? He said, yeah, we just traded you. So he tells me I'm traded to Dallas. I think I was traded for like a second around pick and more than a while. And I was upset. I mean, I was pissed because I didn't want to get traded. I felt that, you know, I was told that I was not going to get traded.

But as it turns out, you know what? I was undrafted. It was not, did not make it as a drafted player. The way I looked at the silver lining, it was after a while I looked at it. Now I'm traded for two players, a pick and a, and a live player. So what a career, but what a way to get traded during the game. It wasn't not a lot of fun.

No, that's really, really remarkable. And, you know, like, look, we glossed over the Minnesota. Even when you go to Dallas, that was back when it was the Jim Jackson, Jamal Mashburn, Jason Kid, like three unbelievable talents who ultimately, that thing kind of, that thing broke up. Yes. Coach Monta had a good term. You know, we had, it was only the three Js.

And he said they were really good, really young, and really going to be a team to be, you know, a team to be, you know, reckoned with with Jimmy Jackson, Jason Kidd and Jamal. That wanted three very highly, highly skilled, very competitive. He said, but the fourth Jay took over the team, and I was jealousy. Well, it was unfortunately that we just could not get along and figure out a good balance of sharing the pie, like I would like to say, because when you're a young player, you want it all, but if you want to be a good young player, and that's the things I give a lot of credit to Westbrook and Durant,

that they were willing to show the pot pie to being such great players that they were. All right, so let's get to that, because you start out, you're a player coach with the L.A. Stars and the ABA, right? Then with the Southern California surf, right? Was there ever a moment to which your wife pulls you aside and says, like, what are you doing?

Like, what are you doing? What was she, did she, what was her sense when you started coaching? Well, I waited a year or two because I wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to put my family through the traveling, moving city to city as I did as a player. But I wanted them to be committed to it because I didn't want to go in and then not go full steam of head and trying to become a head coach. And so I waited and we got, you know, I listened to my wife obviously quite a bit as most husbands do. So she said, let's do it. I'm willing to move from city to city and let's do it. It's going to be a great experience long as we can do it together as a family and your kids move from school to school.

It's not easy. Definitely not easy. It's a lot of tough times. but when you do it together and you can get through it together, you're going to come out better and stronger, and I think that's one of the reasons why I think my kids are really well-rounded and versed in a lot of different situations because they were put in different situations.

But it wasn't easy. The minor league's not easy. I remember driving the van. I remember setting the times for gym time. I remember passing out tickets. I remember, and this was the most incredible thing, I remember taping guys' ankles, and I just did it off. a memory when watching trainers tape my ankle.

Yeah, figure eight, right? I was everything. And in the minor leagues, you had to do that back then. But now that being in the minor leagues, now the G league is now, these players don't realize how good they have it. I hope they do. I mean, I don't know if they do or not. But back in the minor league back then, it was really tough to be a minor league player. That's it for part one of my discussion with Scotty Brooks, head coach of the Washington Wizards

about his journey to make it to the NBA. Upcoming next week in the All-Ball podcast, I'll have more with Scotty Brooks. We'll talk about what it was like to coach those thunder. We'll talk about what he sees as the ultimate ceiling for the Washington Wizards. I'm also going to ask him about that terrible picture that John Wall took when he was practicing with Team USA. Make sure you download, subscribe, and rate the All-Ball podcast.

Don't forget to download and listen to my radio show daily on Fox Sports Radio 3 to 6 Eastern 12 to 3 Pacific. If you have any questions, feel free to hit me on Twitter, on Instagram, or on our Facebook page. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this has been all ball. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

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