The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb - All Ball - part 2 of 2 - w/special guest Scott Brooks

Episode Date: September 21, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as an TV analyst and radio host. Join us this week as Doug brings you part two of a special interview with Scott Brooks, head coach of the Washington Wizards, and asks him about his coaching journey. Follow Doug on twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is All Ball, the All Basketball, All-Year-Long podcast. And, man, we had some good ones. And I really appreciate you downloading,

subscribing, and rating our pod. make sure you tell a friend, tweet it out, put it on social, whatever you want. There's good stuff this week from Scott Brooks, which is upcoming. Part two of our conversation. Part one gave us his early upbringing. One of seven kids, dad walks out when he's really young and they kind of had to fend from themselves. His mercurial path to making it to UC Irvine after TCU as a freshman. And then not making an NBA team in Summer League, but sticking around at Loyola Marymount,

and eventually getting invited to 76ers camp, going to the Albany Patroons, back to the Sixers Camp the next year, making the team, getting a chance to start six games as a pro, but winning an NBA title with Houston, traded at halftime to the Dallas Mavericks, and then this week we'll get into his coaching journey, which is really an interesting one.

He coached in the ABA. I played in the ABA. We know each other very well. We know a lot of the same people, but his path to becoming a head coach. What's it like to take? over a team that was a disaster. One in 12, I believe, at the time.

PJ Carlysmoy had lost the team. He had a young Kevin Durant. They had a Russell Westbrook and a James Harden. And they go to the NBA finals. I'm going to ask him about trading James Hardin. And his thoughts at the time, his thoughts as of now, we'll get what it was like to coach those NBA finals and what he's learned during his, during his,

time away after losing his job with the Thunder and his thoughts on this year's team with the Washington Wizards. Plus, I'm going to ask him about that John Wall photo when he was practicing with Team USA and he looked puffy. Let's just say puffy to say the least. Let me quickly give you some thoughts on the story of the day or the story of the week. Jimmy Butler wants out of the Minnesota Timberwolves. He watched Timberwolves last year and I talked to some NBA people like, well, those guys do not like each other. I don't think there's ever just one factor in a guy wanting out. I think it's one, a lack of chemistry. Two, I think sometimes guys egos aren't in check. Maybe that's the chemistry issue to it. Three, there's also the Jimmy Butler's supposed to be the defender of all things Tibbs in that locker room.

And it's not like everybody doesn't know that. And I'm not sure he loves all things Tibbs. But Tibbs does depend on him and believe in him. That's why he brought him in all. all of the rest of the seemingly the 2011 bulls over to Minnesota, and now he wants out. But I also think the contract, the upcoming contract, the number of touches, the points, I think all that affects him. Andrew Wiggins is a better score.

Carl Anthony Towns is a better overall player. And Jimmy Butler's story is one of legend, you know, homeless becoming an incredible player at Marquette and then lightly regarded in the NBA draft to being an NBA all-star. a guy playing for Team USA. But some of that, some of that hunger, some of that maybe anger doesn't present itself well

in a locker room over 82 games. And maybe there's a loss of self, you know, the fact that he wants to be with the nets and with the clippers and with the Nick shows he wants to be the man. I remember he's friends with Kyrie Irving and I get the idea, hey, I want my own team. But Jimmy Butler's not good enough to have his own team. He's just not.

So if he's your third best player, you can win a title. Your second best player, you cannot. Your best player, you might or probably aren't a playoff team, casing point Chicago. So I'm going to be fascinating to see where he goes, what he does. But there's a little buyer beware because Jimmy Butler thinks of himself as a top 10 player in the NBA and maybe toughness and versatility-wise. He has some of that.

But at some point, it's about talent. And I think he falls a little bit short in that variety. variety. And so the idea of making him your go-to guy is an ill-fated path for some of these teams. All right. Let's get to our discussion with Wizards head coach Scott Brooks. This is part two. If you missed part one, downloaded, as well as download the Jay Billis conversation. There's something I heard you talk about, which I've tried to, I've tried to share as a broadcaster. And I probably, and I learned it as a player, but I probably learned it maybe a bit too late. There's a difference in the role

of being a starting point guard and a backup point guard. And you know, the Matthew Delovedova's, the Scott Brooks, the Darren Collison when he was the backup with the clippers. Like, and tell me if I'm wrong. Like you, you, Patrick Beverly, for example. Like guys are like, man,

Patrick Beverly is like borderline dirty. Like, you have to be. You got to pick up 94 feet. You have to change the tempo of the game. You got to be able to get out of the way and make an open shot, but also let the other guys play. It's a very, it's the same position, point guard, but a completely different role. You're not trying to do the same thing the starter is going to do only for a shorter period of time.

And I think it, especially for a guy like you, and this is where I think there's a disconnect for fans, people that know you played in the NBA don't realize like, dude, you were 24 a game in college. Like at a legit college drop in 24 a game and to, hey, I'm going to score six a game, but I got to make every open shot. I got to guard the other team's point guard who's probably a combo. guard and that he averaged 25 a game in college and do it, you know, be better against better competition and a much shorter period of time. Like, that's a really hard adjustment for players to make.

It's one of the reasons that some guys might have more kind of upside and talent, but they can never be the backup point guard in the NBA because they can't change roles even though it's the same position. See, I mean, you nailed it. It's such an important position on a team because you really have to. to understand everybody's role. And you have to be a connector. You've got to be able to play with the starter.

You've got to be able to play with a lot of things. Sometimes you've got to be understanding that you're not going to play a lot of minutes. You're not going to get a lot of opportunities like the starting point card. But you have to have the mental toughness to be able to compete and do whatever it takes for the coach that asks of you and be able to make shots and you're not going to get a lot of them. And it's funny, I even like change my routine.

I knew, you know, most warm-ups you always, you know, you start with like, you know, four-footers and go out to six and eight, maybe free throws, and then eventually get out to the three-point line. But what I did, every time I walked into the gym, I started taking shots that I would take this first shot of the game. And usually it always seems you'd get the ball, you're wide open, and then you're 23 feet, 24 feet from the basket at the wide open three. So what I even did is my pre-practice workout. I just started like I walked on the court and I just started shooting threes right away. And not a lot because you're not going to get a lot. And I would stop and then just work on my ball handling. And then I would, you know, do some push-ups or sit-ups.

And then I would come back and just shoot a three like and put pressure on. I got to make this shot. And so I think it helped me mentally to not be able to, you know, get a lot of shots. Would be able to make that first shot. You're an assistant coach with the Thunder. It's your first season in Oklahoma City, and I think it was 12 or 13 games in. PJ gets fired.

Did you know you were going to be the guy when PJ got fired? No. You know what? I was with PJ the year before in Seattle as assistant. He was a head coach, and that's the thing that people don't really put two and two together, even though they know it, but they don't really bring it up enough.

The team was really bad then. I think we only won 22 games in Seattle. Love PJ. Great family. Just a great person to be around. Fun guy. Tough coach. I mean, tough.

Tough. On his assistance is challenging. It made you do a lot of things, and you wanted it at a high level, and very particular in everything you did. So we moved to Oklahoma with the move from Seattle, and we didn't have the start that we would like to have. We were one in 12.

So they ended up firing PJ and Coach Westhead. And they hired me. I didn't know that I would get the job. I knew, you know, I knew maybe I would, the next guy for a game or two, maybe until they bring somebody in. So San Francisco before the game, we just got our butts kicked by New Orleans. Chris, we had a great team that year at home. I mean, I think we lost by 30, but it could have easily been 60.

So going to the air, we played them back to back. Now we're going to New Orleans. I'm traveling to the airport, and I get a phone call from Sam. He says, hey, do not go on the plane. I'm like, okay, this is a strange call. And he said, I'm going to call you back in two minutes. So I'm at the airport in my car. Still don't know what's going on.

Calls me back and says, hey, we just fired PJ, and then we're going to put you as an interim coach. So I don't. know how he said, basically said, I don't know how long it's going to be, but just, you know, lead the team. You're going to New Orleans tonight, lead the team. So I get, we get to New Orleans. I think we land like by the time we get to the hotel, like 2.30, we have a team meeting in this little ballroom. I tell the team what happened. Obviously, it's emotional. I have a lot of love for PJ. It's not a great feeling. But it's also, you got to, you got to do your job.

You got to step up and do your job. And it was tough. It was not an easy game to coach, but we end up losing that game. I don't know how it was a close game, middle of the fourth quarter. I think it would be this by 10 or 12. But I started off with that team. We were 1 and 12. I think our first win, I put, I decided, and I was kicking myself because I wanted to do it from the first night

is to put Russell Lesternerk as a starting point card. I thought he was the best point guard on the team. And so I waited like, I don't know. don't know how many games, six, seven games in. And then I finally put him at the starting point guard at Memphis, and we end up winning the first game. Tells you about, you know, his greatness that it was, I saw it early on. We all saw it early on, and I'm glad he's having such good success because he went through

a lot to get there. Who were you starting before that? Earl Watson? Or were you starting? Earl Watson. Earl Watson, good player. No, good player. No, no.

He was not better than Russell Westbrook. but he was a really good player, good starting player, and had a great career and a really, you know, tough. But I thought he was better to be our backup. Right. He's actually, again, another guy who was just, he was tougher than a $2 steak, right? He was a perfect backup.

Absolutely. Well, the tough players in the league and had a great career by being that type of player. And, you know, he'd get back into coaching. He deserves another chance. He had a tough run in Phoenix. but it's always the second time you're around and a lot of times your best time.

So what was the cut? When did you know that you were getting to keep that job? Did not know until late, late in the season. I want to say the last couple of games. And I knew we were struggling. We were three and 29. So I mean, I'm crazy at times, but I don't think I was that crazy enough to think,

oh, yeah, you've got to keep this coach. He's three and 29. But, yeah, I knew that, you know, it's going to be tough. It's going to be tough for, you know, Sam Presley to keep me. But I give our players credit. Kevin Durant, Russell, Westbrook, and Jeff Green led us as first and second year players that I've never seen ever in my playing career or my coaching career prior or after them, that they were able to lead a group of players that had a horrible start.

And they were our leaders of our team. And they inspired me. Every day, I would see them 11 o'clock practice on the court at 9-15. I'm like, oh, my God, don't these guys realize we're 3 and 29? This is not fun. But they made it fun. They were so competitive. You would have thought we were 29 and 3 the way we practiced.

It was so competitive, so much energy, so much intensity and passion, and I said, you know what? You guys, let's just keep making these games fourth quarter games, and we did. Unfortunately, I had the worst luck. I thought it was all me. I swear we lost six games on last second shots. I'm like, man, maybe this coaching thing is not for me.

I'm like the jinx of this team. They're working their butts off, and they deserve to win, but these guys are making miraculous shots last second shots against us. But we made every game a fourth quarter game, and I said we were going to turn it around. We did. we were like ended up being the last 50 games like I don't know 20 and 30 so at that point I thought you know what we turn it around I might have a chance and ended up they gave me a chance to coach

the team and I had a great run there yeah and I remember when you won 50 games next year I was at that laker series at game six when Kobe hit you know I think you missed a turn around palpit that had to put back to beat you but it was it was pretty obvious you guys are going to be around for a while obviously you know LeBron is and they had an incredible roster that beats you in the finals but if you could go

yeah go ahead no no if you could go back and change something about your team your approach in those finals what would it be? You know we we had

we were one of the youngest teams ever to get to finals and I thought you know, we win like 23 games, 22 games the first year, and then we jump up to 50, play the Lakers and should have been a game 7. And then we get, you know, every year we get a step further along, get to the conference finals. And then next year we get to the NBA finals. So the natural progression was, you know what, we're there, we stay together, we get to the finals again, we win it. So going back on that finals, you know, game one we win.

Game two, we just had a horrible start, just horrible. I think we're down 18 or something, 20 points. But we end up coming back, have a chance to tie the game. Derek Fisher in bounds the ball. Durant. Kevin misses a shot, but he gets fouled. They don't call the foul. We have a chance to put it back.

We get foul. They don't call the foul. The next day the NBA comes out, it was a foul. It should have been called, but neither there, neither are. we would have, hopefully, we would have took it to overtime and maybe win that game, game, too. So I'd try to change the dynamics of that series. So now the format was 3-2, I mean, 2, 3, 2, 2, and now we have 3 games in Miami. A lot of, I get a lot of questions, like, why did I play Perk so many minutes?

Well, I really didn't play him a lot of minutes. I started him. Matter of fact, I think the most, if I can remember correctly, I'm not totally sure, so fact-checked me on this, that he played the most minutes on the game that we won. Game one, I think you play like 26 minutes or so. But the thing that he brought to the team, he was a comfort, almost like a blanket for a lot of our players. They love Perk.

Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook love having Perk on the floor. They played better with him. They felt more confident. Perk had their back. The guy was, he was bad. I mean, he was bad to the bone. He didn't, nobody mess with Perk, or our team.

So, but I knew that we would have to make some adjustments than we did. He would lowered his minutes and decreased his minutes as a series went on. The bottom line is we played against a better team in their prime. Those same players are that, you know, our players were basically 21, 22. Their three best players were in their prime, prime 28, 29. That's like saying James, Russell, and Katie on the same team right now. it would not be close and you probably wouldn't be talking about

the warriors as the way we are if they were on the same team now for the last seven or eight, ten years or so. But I have nothing but a lot of pride for the run that we had. My staff did an incredible job. Unfortunately, we didn't have the team coming back the next year, but we still battled back. We ended up having the best record in the league.

Russell Westbrook coach, indeed the first playoff game right before halftime, and everything went down from there on. Yeah. I mean, I got it. We've talked about this on the radio show before. And I, I, the James Harden trade. I know some of it was about money and about the luxury tax. Some of it, I do think, and I'm not trying to defend a trade that I think anybody would point to is not a great trade. But in the context of that time, is it fair to say people did not know what the cap would look like after the new CBA? And I think here's another part that I've often wondered. then to get to the finals, you had to go through the Lakers and the Spurs, and they both had two big guys. And so, even though Hardin was a burgeoning star and was really your fourth quarter point guy, right? You played him and Russ together and James handled the ball a lot in the fourth quarter. They're always also feeling like you had to have Ibaka, maybe even

more so than had James Harden, if you had to pick one or the other, because you had to have two bigs to beat the Spurs and the Lakers. Is that, is that at least part of... Well, you know, the thing is with James, you know what? He made everything go. He made everything. We were a very good team, a high-level team, you know, when we did not have them. But with James, we were special. We were, that was a, for sure, bar injury is a championship team because he made everything go. He was selfless. And he didn't, he didn't want to start. He wanted to play as the backup role, but I was smart enough to realize that, you know what, he's not going to play backup minutes. He probably, I think he was like six in the league in minutes for a two-guards.

So he was playing start of minutes. It just didn't start. And he made everything go. He should have been an all-star that year. I think somebody got hurt. I think Commissioner Stern replaced him with, I don't remember. I think it was a chasing kid. But at that year, at that time, it was average like 18 points a game.

And really, we were winning every game, and he was a big factor in fourth quarters. but he made everything work. And I think that season, he averaged 17 and like five assists and five rebounds. Nothing taken away from service was a great player. Shot Blocker became a really good three-point shooter and eventually was going to be a three-point shooter. But at that point he was averaging nine points and seven rebounds. So James was really good. You know, he was six men of the year, borderline All-Star, if not an All-Star.

And the next year probably would have been for sure an All-Star. Could you have gone? in and stood on the desk. Could you've gone in and stood on the desk and said, like, you know, don't do this? No, I mean, we all had, we all set our keys, but that wasn't my job. My job was the coached the players that I had. And Sam ran the team as he saw fit, and I respected that. And my job was the coach to players. He gave me, you know, 15 players to coach and develop and get, getting to play together as a team. And I took pride in that. We got. We got.

We had a lot of young guys, a lot of young guys, and they played hard, which is not easy to do. And they played together. It's really not easy to do when you got young guys to play hard and play well together. But we're able to do that, and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of my staff's performance and getting those guys to play extremely hard, play together, and also represent our team in our city with a lot of class and a lot of pride. And you know what? We didn't win a championship, but they were championships.

in my eyes. You fast forward to your last year there. You talk about bad luck. Not only does KD miss, I think, 51 games, right? Seemingly, everybody gets hurt on your roster. But then you end up, New Orleans

gets in the playoffs, and the only reason they got in the playoffs was they hit, Anthony Davis hits a crazy three-point shot to beat you. And that was his only three of the entire season. Right? Like, how crazy is it? Yeah, how crazy is it?

I didn't even know that. Yes. That was a crazy shot. I know that was only three. Yeah, that was. Only three of the whole, go back and look. Only three of the entire regular season was that three that beat you, I think in Oklahoma City, like right around Christmas time or something.

And that ends up being the tiebreaker that allowed them to go to the playoffs. And if you go to the playoffs, even as an eight seat, you guys, I think KD was healthy at the end of the year. And Russ was healthy at the end of the year. Like, who know, you may still be coaching in Oklahoma City. City. You know, we had a lot of tough luck the year before Russell. We ended up being number one-seated team.

We won like 60 games. Russell gets hurt with timeout right before and right before half-time. Patrick Beverly, yeah. Patrick Beverly, yes. And then the next year, everybody got hurt. Start the season. Kevin and Russell were out the first, you know, 12 or 14 games. Serge missed the month.

Stephen Adams missed a month. Nick Coulson missed a month. But I thought, everybody, everybody missed time. And I remember one time, we're having some fun with it because everybody was hurt. It was almost become comical. I ran a pick-and-row with Nick Collison handling the ball with Kendrick Perkins set in the pick for him. And this is how crazy it got for us. But I give our guys credit, man, they played.

They played well, and we competed. That was one of the most fun years I've ever had, coaching Oklahoma is that year. I mean, we had everybody hurt, but we thought we were all going to come together and become healthy in March. And I'll tell you what, at that time, we had the Warriors' numbers,

and they were kicking everybody's butt, and they were worried. They thought we were just resting guys to get them all healthy at the same time to play them in the first round. It would have been an epic series, us at the 8th seat and then at the number one seat. But it did not work out that way,

and I got fired and my staff was fired and we moved on and no no hard feelings. Really? At least now. I mean, every, okay, because, because, I mean, okay, so there's two parts to this. The first part is, the story you told before by getting cut in layup lines in, you know, at halftime of Houston, right? Like there's the, you had the, at least now you had the perspective of, hey, I was non-guaranteed undrafted guy from the CBA, you know, from outside of Sacramento and I made it.

I won a championship, right? But when you get, when you get fired for a team that's all banged up and injured and you're this close, and you take them to the NBA finals from one in 12 or whatever to being a dominant team in the West with two superstars after a third superstar was traded away, at that moment, did you have the same perspective or were you angry? No, no, Doug, I was upset. I was disappointed. I was upset. I thought we built up enough equity, and I still had the locker room. I still had the respect, and we were improving.

Even as that tough season we had, we right there was making the playoffs in a very, very challenging West. And looking back, and I have great relationships with those players still today, and we've had some really candid conversations, and I'm more proud of the fact that I handle my firing with respect. But talking to them, and I know that I probably deserved that maybe coach one more year.

I would have been fine. I would have actually told the team, you know, after one more year, if we didn't win a championship, that, you know what, my time has been served, and it was a great run. It's time to move on. But, you know,

we have all of our injuries. And the thing that I, to this day, It bothers me a little bit is that when you win a championship, or in order to win a championship, a lot of times you've got to go through a lot of tough times. You have to have basically some scar tissue on you. I felt that that team was ready. It had enough heartache to be able to fight through what you need to go through to win a championship. It's tough.

You've got to not only go through a grilling 82-game season, ups and downs, the injuries, the mental wear and tear, the physical wear and chair in your body, but you've got to go through four rounds, and that's hard to win one playoff game, let alone four out of seven in 12 days, and you have to do it two rounds, and then you have to do it the third round, and then to win it all, you've got to win the fourth round. But I felt that that team was ready, and it was hard for me not able to coach that team. When Kevin left, what was your reaction? You know, as a former player, I look at the game a lot of times through a player's eyes

because I know it's very short. I've been through a lot of – I've seen a lot of players, really good players get hurt and have a short career. I've seen players that really get hurt and get traded, mostly hurt. And because they got traded, they give them so much their organization. So as I look back, as I look through a player's eyes, I say, you know what, they've earned that right to go wherever they want to go because of all the great players that gave them that right, all the great players in the plastic, pass it, gave these players to be free agent son. You know, Kevin wanted to leave. That was his choice.

You know, how he did it, maybe he could have, you know, maybe he could have did it differently. I don't really know how he did it and who he talked to or who he did not talk to. But, you know, he had a great run there. He gave that city a lot of great memories. And, you know, unfortunately, we weren't able to. And I put myself in that. We failed to win a championship for that organization. And Mr. Bennett all gave us all a lot of great opportunities and resources to do that.

So you go to Washington and you have these two young stars. And the perception is Beel and Wall don't like playing with each other. That's the perception, right? what's the reality of coaching those two? Well, going into that, I heard it, I read about it, and I was well aware of it, and I wanted to make sure that I was, you know, had my ears open and my eyes open and just understand that I want to be able to fill it. I want to figure out why.

But my first year, I did not see it, did not hear it, did not fill it. So I never really had to worry about that. Now, are they competitive, sometimes against each other, practice, absolutely, but I want that. I manufacture that. I put them on different teams. I want the two best players to compete against each other. That's how you gain respect for one another to tell you gain respect for your team. And I want to see the other guys step up. And you know what? They've been great teammates. And, you know, they've been through a lot of playoff losses together. And I feel like, you know, we're close. And, you know, we've been close for a while. But

going into this season, it's not about talking. It's about just doing it and continue to improve and get better. But two young players, two young guards, that's a good start to have, and we have that. And John Wall is healthy. He's been healthy all summer. And Brad's doing a great job in his training. I saw them both last week, and I'm looking forward to start this season. Okay, there's the picture of John at the USA basketball workouts.

And, I mean, it, look, it was great. net fodder. It's the middle of summer, and he looked heavy. You saw him last, you saw him last week. Is he in fact heavy? You know what? I saw him before. I saw him before. He took that picture about 10 days before, and I saw him about 10 days after. Before, I thought he was in great shape. Body fat, like, I don't know, 5 or 6 percent. He was like 218, 220. It was a bad pitcher. It was definitely a bad pitcher. And I tell him, John, you've got this look. It's like I call it the Hollywood Unkept. Look, he has this wild hairstyle now.

And it's just like you just woke up, and it looks bad. But that's his look. He's like, look like he's homeless. But I'll tell you what, he competes. And that's what I love about him. He competes. And I saw him last week. He's down to like 216, 218, 218.

And he's in great shape. His knees are good. We're looking forward to have another productive year from him. You know, we won. We make the playoffs last year. He misses 41 games. and I'm not so sure I would have predicted that before the season, but hopefully he can stay healthy and we can all stay healthy and have a great year.

How much different is it without LeBron in the East? Big difference. Talk to a lot of the coaches that couldn't figure that puzzle out. A lot of great coaches lost, a lot of great teams. Boston couldn't get by him a couple of years. Toronto couldn't get by him a couple years. Everybody couldn't get by him. I think Kevin Love said it best.

He's playing checkers, and a lot of the other guys are playing, I mean, he's playing chess in a lot of the players are playing checkers. He has this IQ that you don't see often. He knows every team's plays. He knows sometimes I will throw out a play call, just a random play call, because I know he can hear. And one time I, I don't know, I yelled out like four horns. And he looked at me like, four horns,

you don't got four horns? You don't got four horns? And it's true. The guy knows everything. And to be so great, and like I said, only two players in the NBA history can be an all-star

on all-five position. Him and Magic Johnson, if they want to be a center of this year, they could have both been an all-star. I want to be a two-guar. They both could have been an all-start going down the line. And he's that talented, and a lot of coaches are happy that he's no longer around in the east.

Should we, as a guy who played in the Magic and Burrower, era, should people put Magic and Bird in the conversation of Jordan and LeBron, or should they not? Absolutely. They changed the game. They changed the dynamics of the league. They took it to another level.

It wouldn't be where it is if it wasn't from them. They both had team winning spirits and competitive spirits that we all want our teams and players to have. And I love both of them. I loved them as a kid growing up. And I was so fortunate to be on the same court to compete against them. But they, you know, it's interesting. Some of the older players don't get the respect because, you know,

sometimes my generation or even the younger millennials think that basketball didn't start until, you know, mid-90s, late 90s. But, man, there's a lot of great players. For Jabbar not being mentioned as the greatest player ever is, to me, criminal as well. The guy played 20 years, made 19 All-Stars, I think, six times MVP, six times championships, and all-time leading score for him not to be mentioned is crazy, in my opinion. He had a shot that nobody could ever stop or ever tried to ever duplicate. But there are so many great players.

It's so unfair to say who's better than who. Who's the best player who's asked you kicked in an NBA game? Say that again. Who's the best player who's asked you kicked in an NBA game? That I did? Yeah. Like I got, that I got, huh? I mean, you're going to play against him now,

so now you can tell us. Like, man, I got him. Oh, my God. You mean the other way around that kicked mine? No, I'm saying that you, I was going to do the opposite in a second, but first I wanted, first I wanted the guys who asked you kicked. Well, I'll tell you what.

There's one game. It was so, we ended up boost the game. We threw the ball out of bounds. We had a chance to win the game. We're at Detroit. And we're playing one of the few T&G games at the time. And I happened to be having my best game. I think I had like 20 against Isaiah.

I'm not saying I kicked his butt, but I had a good game against him. But, yeah, that was one of my better games. But unfortunately, we didn't win the game. but and then you're going to ask me the next question. Yeah, yeah, I went to the next one. Isaiah, he kicked my butt all the time. That guy, that guy is so good, and he was, and he did it with a smile. Yes.

He would, I mean, he was borderline dirty, and you knew he was, but he did it with a smile, and he, I mean, that guy, I can't even imagine what he would do in today's game, the way the game is played that you don't, you don't get chucked walking across the court anymore. Everybody's going in the three-point line. The middle is wide open. The guy would average 35 a game. Yeah. No, I mean, he just, he was a killer. He was a killer, only he did it with

basketballs instead of with knives or, you know, with guns. That's, that's, that's, uh, yes, exactly. All right, let's, let's, let's finish with this. So here's, here's my version of the story, um, is Los Cabrieros. And you used to have your crew, right? Uh, I think Bob Thornton was on that crew, right? I think Scotty was on that crew. I think Todd Murphy was on that crew.

I'm trying to think, I'm not sure if Wayne Ingolstad would show up and play as well. Yeah, he was all, it was, Johnny Rogers. Johnny Rogers, of course. And so you guys would play, and we would kind of fill out the younger, you know, and then there was the Cherokee Parks of the world and kind of the younger college-age players in Orange County.

And then there was like high school kids. And so, you know, kind of like you used to hang around LMU, we would hang around Los Cab. There's two gyms. And sometimes we play in the JV court. Sometimes we get to play in your varsity court. So all I remember was you lit me up and said, get the fuck off of my court or something like that. And I was like, I was like, and all I remember was, I don't know what, what did I do to piss off Scotty Brooks? And they were like, dude, Scotty hates you.

He hates you. I was like, I don't know what I, I don't even know what I did. Just tell me what I did. Okay, so what was it? Was it my dad? Was my dad came in and put me in the game? I remember the story, and I remember the games, and I remember. All I remember is this.

I said, this guy was basically Southern California's high school player. Went to Notre Dame. What the OSU, and this guy is strong. I mean, this guy is strong and athletic and jump out of the gym and could dime it as well as anybody. I'm making sure that he doesn't know that I have any respect for him. And that's the truth. I had a lot of respect because you played hard.

No, I thought it was that my dad got me on. I don't guys compete like that. You played hard, and you were a freak athlete. And nobody ever talks about that. Because, hey, guys, you know, 5-11, white guy, can't jump. But no, you were pretty athletic. And you didn't get a lot of credit for that. but I do remember those times, and I didn't want to give you an edge at all.

I think you're being nice. I think the story was, though, that early on my dad would say, like, hey, he's got to get in a game. Like, he would, like, he would sit there and, like, make me get in a game, and we just piss you. You were like, this is my game. We're our NBA players. Get off my court. Get out of my gym. Rewind.

Rewind. And I know, I definitely know part of the reason. I remember your dad. God bless him. The guy loves his kids and love basketball. like I do and like I want to like I want to do the same but he

would put you into the games and this was you were you just graduated from high school where'd you go like Tustin yeah yeah he just graduated from high school and he would put you on the court

against like and at that time we had any given day we had nine NBA players and I'm like no no no no man we can't play play him on the court it's no it's no fun it's no fun At that time, you weren't good enough to be on the court. But not only were your dad put you on the court,

he would take me out in the game and put you in my place. I said, no, that's not happening. But that's how you got better. Think about it. That's how you got better by playing against really, really good players. All right. Our last thing, obviously your mom was an amazing lady. Amazing lady.

Yeah. And we started by, we started by, is, is that what drives you? I mean, because, like, look, you do get to a point, and you're not old. You do get to a point to which you're like, look, you can keep doing this. Washington, there can be another team. Like, what is the internal motivation for you to keep pushing, pressing forward? You've talked about how it's your upbringing.

But what, once you've made it, once you've made it in the NBA, you made it as head coach, you made it to the NBA finals, you made it to get a job in D.C. with great players. What drives you to keep achieving? Well, obviously my mom and the family, and now that I have a wife and two kids, they drive me. They drive me. I love what I do. I'm passionate what I do. I care about what I do.

I get nervous still to this day before practice, before games, because I want to win every practice. I want to win every game, and I care about it. It's good to have those butterflies in your stomach. But I'll tell you, people always ask you, how do you handle all the criticism, the social media, And just the internet just blows up. I said, I don't really, I don't care about any of that. I can get criticized all I want. That's just part of the territory.

You win a game. You're a great coach. You lose a game. You're a bad coach. Actually, when you win a game, you've got great players. You lose a game. You get that mentality. But really what drives me as my kids and my wife,

if I disappoint them and they criticize me, that's when I say, you know what? I got to step back and, you know, check myself and make sure that I'm doing things right. But if they don't criticize me, I'm in good shape. And I don't care about the other thing. That's just part of the business. But that's what drives me.

I love what I do. And I care about what I do. And I think I have a great opportunity and a great team to coach. And I'm really excited about this upcoming year. All right. I lied. I have one more. How do you insist this is a question I really want.

So I grew up, you know, my dad, he got fired at Longby State in 84. and I you know we didn't grow up with with much but we didn't grow up you know I didn't grow up with one parent seven you know seven kids in a house picking walnuts and and onions how do you in how do you get your kids to be as hungry I ask NBA guys this all the time how do you get your kids to be as hungry as you were even though you know yours have grown up in for the most part in another Oklahoma City when you're an NBA coach or in Southern California like how do you instill the same hunger and yet you give them all those. the different support that we didn't have when we were kids? You know, that's flask ourselves. A lot of players that have kids, and that's funny. You said that Bradley Bill just had a little baby boy, and I told him the same thing, Brad, how are you going to do it? How are you going to be able to combat?

Your son's upbringing is going to be totally different than yours. And we've talked about that. You know what I did? I knew I wanted my kids to be good people and to treat everybody with respect like everybody does. But I needed them to be, they have a burdened desire to compete. And I felt that, you know what,

the chance of them to be athletic and then is probably not very high. I'm not going to say they can't do it at a young age, but I'm saying, you know what, if they do, great, I'm going to encourage it. I'm going to empower them and making sure that they have the best chances to succeed.

But I definitely wanted them to have the burdened desire to be educated. That's something I grew up, we didn't know about all the things that you can do with your brain, with your mind, all the education, all the great things that gives you. But that's what my wife and I decided to do. And, you know, my son goes to USC, my daughter's a senior in high school, and then she has a great opportunity. She's probably the smartest one of all of us. But I'm proud of that. And I think that's what I'm challenging them to do great things off of the best.

an athletic field and you guys, and they are. They're doing it unproudable. Yeah. Well, I'd like to point out that you obviously sold out your wife's athletic genes because you were a great athlete and saying your kids would not be athletes only proves that you're like, listen. I blame it. I blame it. My kids aren't athletic because of you.

Yes, yes. That's a great way to wrap. Hey, man, listen, you've been awesome with your time. I can't wait to catch up with you during the season. Thanks so much. I'll see it yoga. Namaste and thanks for joining us. All right, man.

All right, Doug. you, man. All right, that's it for All Ball. Look, basketball season clearly heating up. Glad you enjoyed Scott Brooks and his fascinating life in our discussion this week on the Thunder and

the Washington Wizards. We'll start to dig in next week on this year's NBA as Jimmy Butler will be traded by the time the next all-ball drops. We'll have to pay attention to that. How that reshapes the league. I will have some previews for you and

more outstanding guests. Make sure you tell a friend. Make sure you subscribe, you download, and you rate the show. And oh yeah, by the way, if you give us a listen to Doug Gottlieb show is daily on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports Radio.com, the IHeartRadio app 3 to 6th Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. We also have daily podcasts for that as well. Thanks for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

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