The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb - All Ball -'Rich Paul Rule' Isn't Outrageous; Gonzaga Asst. Roger Powell, Jr, on Illinois' 2005 Title Game Run, Playing for Bill Self,

Episode Date: August 8, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb explains looks at the controversy surrounding the NCAA's new "Rich Paul Rule," why he disagrees with the social media outrage surrounding it, and chats with Gonzaga Asst. Roger Powell, discusses making it to the 2005 NCAA Tourney Championship Game with Illinois, playing for Bill Self, trying to make it in the NBA, and his transition into coaching. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Doug Gottlieb, and you are listening to the All Ball podcast. Our guest, in this version, is Roger Powell, Jr., who is an incredible coach. He just took a job with Gonzaga. Last three years, he's been at Vanderbilt. previous to that, he was with Bryce Drew at Valparaiso. And, of course, you may remember him as one of the stars of the Illinois team that went 37 and two and lost the national championship game in 2005. He traveled all over the world to play basketball. He's played for an unbelievable list of coaches.

He's coached under a guy who he deems to be one of the great offensive coaches in basketball. And his dad was a great player in his own right. and he kind of followed in his footsteps, albeit at Illinois as opposed to Illinois State. So he's got a great journey and we'll talk about that. Let me quickly give you my thoughts on this, what I think is a non-traversy in regards to what's called by some the Rich Paul rule. As you know, the NCAA made basically a baseline for what you have to have

if you want to recruit kids, sign kids on campus that are underclassmen. Got to have a bachelor's degree. got to be a member of the NBA PA's got to be a cleared agent for like three years and you got to go in and meet with the NCAA so you know their rules. None of these are tall tasks. They're just not.

I mean personally, if I have an agent, I would actually like for him to have be a lawyer, you know, have a law degree, let alone a bachelor's degree. Of course I want him to have experience in the league. Otherwise, what hell is he talking about? How does he know where I'm going to be drafted? And the idea of going to meet with the NCAA sounds like some dark,

uh, draconian, um, storyline or, or rule. But I mean, the fact is that if you're a member of the NBA PA, you have to know the rules of the NBA,

but you don't necessarily have to know the rules of college basketball by going to meet with the NCAA. I mean, with the NCAA, you do. So you can't say, hey, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to do that. Right? You can't.

And then you have LeBron James. chiming in saying this is the rich Paul rule. Look, LeBron James is obviously a narcissist. Somebody with a narcissistic personality disorder characterized by grandiosity. Come on, the king. Excessive need for admiration.

A personal disdain, a lack of empathy for other. Displays arrogance and distorted sense of superiority. They seek to establish abusive and control of others. Self-confidence. I think that he thinks, and this is a big one, self-perception of being unique, superior, and associated with high-status people and institutions.

Bronjames is one of the all-time great players. But the NCAA isn't worrying themselves with one Rich Paul who might sign a guy or two from the NBA draft. They're concerned with the idea of guys that are under-qualifying, misrepresenting themselves as qualified NBA agents giving guys advice, which is bad advice. Because that's what happened. How many guys do you see and stay in the draft?

Because they thought they were told late first, early second. like, well, you know, this thing happened, that thing. The best agents, you know, they give really good advice. Do you know why? Because if you go lower in the draft and they told you ago, if you go undrafted, most people usually fire their agent. That's what happens. Guys that go undrafted, almost all fire their first agent.

Many second round picks fire their first agent. Because they thought late first, early second. You go late second round or you go undrafted, you're going to fire that agent. So a real reputable agent isn't going to lie to you. This is not even, this is a very low bar. So the bar is pretty low. And the news flash to LeBron and all of his minions in the media and on social media is, this isn't about Rich Paul.

Rich Paul reps a guy or two in the draft. No, yeah, by the way, like, the idea that Rich Paul is the reason for an NCAA rule is when you think way too highly and way, way you put way too much importance on yourself, which is kind of what LeBron has done in his narcissistic ways. He's not the first one to show player mobility. LeBron James changed teams twice, both times when he was a free agent. He didn't force his way out. Paul George, if anything, has forced his way out in a harder situation, signing and being traded one year later. Like, that's a bigger thing in the NBA than what LeBron has done.

Ron's a great player. He's done some interesting things. And he's helped raise Rich Paul to prominence. The only trailblazing he's done is for Rich Paul, right? Is for Rich Paul. And that he's paved the way for a guy who was selling jerseys out of the back of his car to being a prominent and powerful agent in the NBA. But for colleges to want to protect their student athletes and say,

hey, just got to make sure a guy has a bachelor's degree, he's been a legit agent, met with us so he knows the rules. That's not a high bar. there's no more narcissistic statement than one that applies to all agents and assuming it only applies to your agent. You know, look, if you, and if you combined it with what David Griffin said to Sports Illustrated, you start to see why everything David Griffin said, no matter how lightly he walked it back, does appear to be accurate. It does appear to be accurate. from this perspective.

LeBron himself has said he's not the same animal about winning. He's just said it in a different way. I have nothing more to prove in the NBA. If you think the culture that LeBron James brings to a team is good, then why did that thing fall apart so badly last year? Why did Kyrie Irving want out? Part of culture is, do the younger players get better? Does the team get better as the season goes on?

Do they practice? The reason the calves were bad his last year, in the regular season, they didn't practice. You can't establish culture. Can't refine offense. That's a really hard deal. Let's just go out and wing it. Figure it out in the fly.

And he felt unhappiness. And I don't think Magic's unhappiness was solely based upon LeBron James. But the first thing Magic Johnson said when he resigned was, I want to be happy and be Magic Johnson again. So this is who LeBron is. Super talented. unbelievable presence takes up the air in the room

but he's a narcissist who's never been told no thinks so highly of himself he thinks that he invented barbershop talk on television even though there was actually a movie called the barbershop and there was a famous barbershop scene in coming to America

Joe Lewis was 72 years old right so while talented David Griffin painted this picture that we know he loves to play. At the end of the day, he'll compete and win, but he's not the same as he used to be. And it's not always that fun because it's not about building. It's just about creating a team that he can ultimately win with, take the credit when they win and not take the blame when they lose. And now apparently, the same goes for his agent and friend Rich Paul, which is he thinks

everything is about him, including an NCAA rule that literally has nothing to do with him, or very little to do with him. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. During my lifetime, I think there's probably, let's see, I'm 43. And so there's moments that you remember about the Final Four. There's special teams that are unique. And one of those teams was the fight in the Linae.

That was an incredible team. they were the first team when they lost North Carolina. It was a 2005 national championship game in St. Louis. I remember it because it was, I think it was the first time I was actually sent to cover, which was kind of cool. And I was sitting courtside next to Michelle Beatle. This first time I met her. And I said before the game, she's like, does Illinois have any chance?

And I was like, yeah, if they take like 43s, they got a good shot. And sure enough, they took 43s and nearly won the game. And that team was really really. really transformative in college basketball. One of the stars of that team is now an assistant coach at Gonzaga. His name's Roger Powell. He joins us in the All Ball podcast. Roger, how are you?

I'm doing good. How about yourself, Doug? Good. I want to get to that fight in the Linae team. I want to talk about your post-Illinois playing career. But you're from J-Town. So look, here's what I know about Joliet Illinois. I'll give you the short, quick version.

My teammate at Notre Dame was named, I was named Bell. Oh, man. Gary Bell. Gary Bell. Okay. G. Bell. And Gary Bell was listed, I believe, at like 6-8, and he was at best 6'5. But in today's NBA, in today's NBA, he would be nasty because he was like an undersized four, left-handed, long arms, whatever.

But I rolled up to the Coca-Cola All-American game, my senior year in high school. And I walked in the gym and they set up as in Indianapolis at the time. It was run by Bob Knight's son. And I remember, like, I was excited because I'd signed up at Notre Dame and Gary Bell was actually the highest rate of recruit. And I was like, where's Gary Bell? Like right there. I was like, no, no, no. That guy's like six-four.

Like, that's Gary Bell. Anyway. And then, yeah, so that's my first Juliet memory. What was it like growing up in Juliet, Illinois? Oh, man, Julia, well, it's funny you mentioned Gary Bell. You know, he was definitely one of those guys that I grew up in junior, I watched and play. And, you know, Juliet is, it's a suburb of Chicago, you know, about 40 minutes away.

So, you know, you kind of have your own, you know, Juliet swag, you know, because we go up to Chicago, you play against, you know, the Whitney Young's, and Julian, you know, we always in Juliet, we always had a chip on our shorter. But with that being said, we have to really talented players, you know, in the, you know, suburb area. So growing up there, man, you know, it was just a form of pride and a form of, you know, just

trying to, you know, carry on a legacy, you know, all of all the good basketball players that came from Juliet, you know, my dad being one of them, you know, Gary Bell, Ty Carterwood, had played at Wisconsin, you know, John Ford, you know, David Evans, you know, so. Terry, Terry Gannon, Terry Gannon was from, uh, from

He played Juliet Catholic as well. So tell me about your dad. Your dad was a great player at Juliet Central. He was. What do you know about his career about how he played? So my dad, obviously he was from Juliet. I played at Central. I played at West.

There are two schools that are separated from like, you know, like two miles, West Side, East Side. East side is kind of like the rough part of Joliet. I kind of grew up in that area, Then I moved to the west side when I was eighth grade to get away from gangs and get away from a lot of the bad things that were going on. So, you know, you know, growing up, you know, all I could do was just hear stories about my dad at Central, man, who, you know, broke records. I mean, as a sophomore year, there was like 33 points of game in high school. And, you know, he was a really good, you know, basketball player, kind of like a legend in the Joliet area.

So, you know, obviously I had a lot of, you know, large shoes to feel. Then he went to Illinois State and played for the Redbirds. And his nickname was the mad bomber because he can really shoot from far out. Like, he had deep range. And everyone was like, every time, you know, my dad comes up, you know, like, man, that guy can really, really shoot. So he was, you know, he was all-American there, played with Doug Collins. And then after that, he went on and had some trials with some NBA.

And he decided to be a, you know, be a teacher at a maximum security prison. He coached a little bit at Georgia University in college. so to keep kind of basketball, keep his basketball fix going. So, you know, that's my dad in a nutshell. But it's amazing everywhere I go. I mean, I've been coaching for nine years. That's my ninth year. And, like, every time I meet somebody,

someone has a story about my dad, which is really cool to hear. Yeah. And, you know, my dad's no longer here. My dad was, you know, he was obviously not a player like he played, but not a player like your dad. But it is, it's one of the things about basketball kind of being this, this family. I remember late Howard Garfinkel said that to me like every year I'd seen at the Final Four is like, you know,

your dad, he brought your mom up, she was his fiance, basketball is family. And it really is. And when they say great things about your parents, it's pretty awe-inspiring. So when you're coming up, at that time, he's working at a maximum security prison while you're a kid? Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, he was working. He was he was a PE teacher at a maximum security prison, and there was a youth prison, I.C. Joliet. And, you know, the oldest kids there were 18, so it was teenagers and, you know,

guys that, you know, did, you know, bad crimes. I mean, it was, it was pretty intense. But the core thing was, you know, every once in a while I would get to go and play pickup basketball with those guys, you know. So here I am, a junior-eye kid, you know, playing pickup with a bunch of inmates. and that kind that's kind of where

I kind of got my toughness kind of got my swagger from those opportunities and then you know sometimes my dad would take me there to help me you know refocus and not

get in trouble man because like I kind of grew up and I was kind of a problem child I got kicked out like four schools you know one school twice you know in my elementary year so what did you do it often bring me there

oh my goodness I did some everything man like what I did some so I grew up obviously Joey at east side. I had some really my thumb members were all kind of like gang members and you know I kind of had a chip in my shoulder

because I was one of the only kids and they were they had a dad so I would always you know you just act out, do things and getting fights and I don't know just childish things that was kind of useless and you know I ended up getting kicked out but

to be honest I went to a capital school in junior high and that kind of changed my life man and that's where I kind of refocus. I got serious of my academics and basketball. I got even better. And it kind of gave me a goal. And it just kind of helped me, you know, help me refocused and, you know, stop getting in trouble. That's crazy. So I never got kicked out, but, I mean, I got in trouble all the time. Like, you name it, I did it, right? Like I, in, when I was in middle school, my dad was like, hey, I'm going to hold you back because I was, he grew late. He knew I was going to grow late. I was like five feet tall in eighth grade, 100, 102, and three pounds. And so, like, I knew I was in it,

and I was just a pain in the ass. So, like, I did things where I'd took a paperclip and have a rubber band and I'd fire it. A substitute teacher, you know, wouldn't be looking, I'd fire it, and I actually hit one of them in the face, got suspended. And then my grades came,

and it used to be a, it was one of those where it'd come in, and it was like a self-contained envelope, and you'd open it up, and it was, it was that deal where it was like you could actually erase them really quickly. And I erased them and knew how to make it look, use a typewriter and type on the back where it had that kind of paper that would make the print and change the grades. So, and I didn't get myself like straight A's.

There's like A's and B's and maybe one C or something instead of like the D's and C's that I had. And so my mom goes in when I get suspended from school and she has to meet with the vice principal. And vice principal's like, you know, and his grades are terrible. She's like, what are you talking about? I was like, yeah, she's like, he's, you know, he's failing some classes. He's not showing up. She's like, I have no idea what you're talking about. She's like, he's like, here's the report card.

She's like, that's not the report card I got. And so, you know, like, it was, so what, when you get in trouble at school, how would your dad handle it? Oh, man. Talk about spankings, man. My dad wasn't, my dad did just spare a rod, but shoot, it, it didn't work. It didn't work. You know, it's funny, man. I actually share this story a lot when I speak to kids.

You know, I grew up, obviously, in a rough city. You know, I saw a lot that kids shouldn't see. You know, it wasn't uncommon for us to be going home, and a drive-by happened, and we had to duck behind cars. So, like, you know, it's kind of, it's just the environment you're in, you know, you're mad, and you feel like fighting is the only way that, you know, kind of, you know, achieve any type of, you know, man stamp, you know. So it was just kind of like a persona that I tried to take on.

But the funny thing is, you know, the last school I got kicked out of, it was Eliza Kelly. And it was like one of the ruffest schools in our area. And here I am getting kicked out of ruffet school. So my parents kind of had the last string. They would say, okay, we're either going to send you to a juvenile center or we're going to try a Catholic school. And the capital school was on the west side of Joliette, St. Jude's. And I never forget my first, like, week there, like I was the only black kid in the school. it was like each class had like 25 students in the whole class

and you know everyone was kind of intimidated by me. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise,

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I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

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Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

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And, man, my first report card there, I got four Fs and a D. And I got a D and P.E. And it was just, I was going down the tubes. It didn't like it was going to work. And there was this lady named Miss Fink. And, like, I share it to everybody I speak to because it's a remarkable story how, you know, a teacher can really impact a kid. This lady, Miss Fink, kind of took near her wings. She was, like, 6'2.

She was an intimidating teacher in the school. There were so many scary stories about her, but yet she took time to mentor me. And she just, you know, we had a couple conversations, and I can relate to her because I was tall and everybody was intimidated about me. And, you know, we just kind of hit it off. And she was like, if you think you want to be a basketball player and if you think that, You know, you want to be successful and you want to, you know, have a good future. You're going to have to focus on your academics. You're going to have to learn to, you know, be respectful in classrooms and not fight when you get angry.

And she basically, like, mentored me. And that lady, to this day, like, I give her credit for changing my life because I went from 4S and 1D to, you know, my 6th grade year or my 7th grade year. I was a B.C student, eighth grade year, A's and B. and then my first year in high school, I was a straight-A student, never getting kicked out of school. It just totally changed my life. So, you know, I went back to that school about,

I want to say three years ago, and I went to say hi to her, and they had a school assembly that day, and they were actually honoring her on the day I showed up. And I got to share that story, man. It was a pretty special moment, man. So that's kind of how, you know, my life changed, and that's kind of direction or the moment

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talk to me a little bit about the process you went through. And I think it's good to not pat yourself on the back, but to put it out there so other people can kind of hear what it takes. Like, I don't know. I always look at like this. Like, what do I want? I wanted to be a WWE superstar. All right, what does it take to be a WW superstar? What are the tools I will need to give me every possible opportunity I can get? And so I took the tools of acting classes, improv classes, wrestling school, everything I possibly can to knock on the door of WW. The people of the, everyone on that real world show would wear my t-shirts, would always ask me to do the MIS. Like, they were so supportive.

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Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash reach. That's LinkedIn.com slash reach to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Bill Self is head coached Illinois. You're in high school, in Juliet. They started to get it rolling. What led you to pick Illinois? You know, initially, like they actually offered me, man,

freshman year. My freshman year in high school. I was playing varsity. We played downstate. We played against Quincy. And I think Rob Judson at the time was an assistant there. And he saw me in the state tournament. And my freshman year, that was my first offer. And it was actually when Long Kruger was there. And I kind of fell in love with Illinois. You know, I always wanted to play for my state. But, you know, I was getting recruited by Michigan State, Tom Izzo, Arizona, some really good schools. Notre Dame was recruiting me really heavily. And, you know, I wanted to kind of go to the process a bit,

but I always had a little more in the back of my mind. So I committed early after my sophomore year. And then that's when Long Kruger, actually, I think he left and went to the NBA. And they hired Bill Self. And Bill Self came to see me and he continued to recruit me. And we built a really good relationship. And, you know, I kind of stayed committed.

And I signed with Bill Self. How good were you your senior year? You know, my senior year, I was good. I mean, I was like, like, top five in the state. I think I was, like, fourth to, like, runner-runner of Mr. Basketball. But that year, you know, we had, you know, Eddie Curry, Will Bynum, myself, Najee, Beckles, Pierre Pierce, Luther Head. So it was a very talented run in the Chicago suburbs and the city.

You know, the year before us, you know, it was Dwayne Wade, you know, was there, Matt Lottick. So, I mean, basketball was really healthy in the Chicagoland area during those years. So you show up at Illinois in 2001. Who was in your squad? 2001. Shoot, man. I have it in front of me if you need help.

So the freshman, it was myself, Luther Head. And then I think our seniors is Corey Bradford, Frank Williams, Robert Archibald, who played NBA. obviously one of those Frank Williams played in the league. Brian Cook. De Mirro Copalia. Brian Cook was a junior. Yeah.

Snacks. Jaron Howard. Yeah, snacks. Yeah, we had a squad, man. It was family too, man. It was a pretty cool deal. Okay, so I do think it's interesting. So Champagne is, like, for a guy who's, you're from the suburbs of Chicago,

like it's a little bit out there, right? It's a true kind of state school. And it does, I always feel like, you know, when I went to Oklahoma State, it was different than Notre Dame and that it was a state school. It's removed kind of from a city. And so it brings you closer. Was that what it was like for you?

Like, was it two country for you? Like, what was it like for you when you first got there? Man, you know, to be honest, I didn't really think much about it. I was just glad to be playing with Illinois back in that day. I mean, Illinois had it rolling. winning Big Ten championships and obviously my four years there was pretty remarkably

and won the Big Ten every year and three three-sixth championship games so you know when you're there basketball was so exciting you know fans loved us you know you kind of forget that you're in a cornfield in middle of nowhere because you know you just you pretty much at the gym

you dorm class and then traveling for games so it was fun man I love my four years there. Why didn't Frank Williams make it in the league? I have no idea, man. He was a really good talent, you know, and he was a great guy. I really love playing with him.

You know, but, you know, the NBA is not easy, you know. The fact that he got drafted and the fact that he played the games he did, you know, I think it's a success. Now, some guys, you know, obviously pan out and getting a good situation where they sit and things go well. And some guys, you know, maybe play for three or four years and shoot. I don't know to me basketball players that wouldn't trade that type of career for, you know. No question, but he was super, super hyped.

And he, you know, and he, Bill Self really got a lot more out of him than it felt like Lonwood. But then he didn't, you know, he didn't stick for a long time in the NBA. The next year, next year you bring in James Augustine, Darren Williams and D. Brown. But I want to ask you about your freshman year. You didn't play very much. What was that like emotionally to go through? Your dad's a legend.

You played every year in high school. You're a star. You come into Illinois. And you barely play. What was that like? Man, so, you know, I was pretty confident that I was going to be a starter there. You know, I knew that, you know, I had some guys that had to me some seniors that, you know, had a lot of experience.

But, you know, I worked my tail off. And, you know, I was tough in practice. I didn't back down. And when I did play, you know, and I showed glimpses, I showed signs, you know, that, you know, I was going to be good. And the thing that changed my career was the summer going from my freshman to sophomore year. I went on, I went to a Big Ten All-Star trip. And Bill Suff was actually the coach. And I actually led that team scoring.

And they said, I mean, they had a bunch of other classmen, Tom Coverdale. I mean, there was a ton of guys that played in the Big Ten that were older. And, you know, I really played really well. And all the work that I put in the summer of my freshman year, you know, during the season, extra work I put in outside of practice. And then leading up to that Big Ten All-Star trip that work I put in, it kind of came out. And I thought that was where Bill Self saw, you know, the potential I had. And he started me the next year.

And, you know, I played really well. And, you know, obviously, we went on away in the Big Ten tournament. and we went to the tournament and walked in the second round. But that my freshman to sophomore year was where I made the huge strides and I never looked back. I mentioned that freshman class that came in.

That team that won the Big Ten that year, your only senior was Brian Cook, who was again kind of before his time, right? Like, you know, stretch four or five. You know, James Augustine who became kind of the same thing. But you brought in Darren Williams and D. Brown. And it's interesting because when D.

was probably more highly regarded, right? One, because he's from the state. Two, because he's such an electric player. Did you know, what did you see from Darren Williams when you first saw him? I know, I know Darren was going to be really good. You know, number one, he could really, really defend, and he was extremely, extremely competitive.

And, you know, he was a little overweight when he got there, so he needed to lose some weight. And, but I knew he was going to be a special point guard. He had great court vision. and man, I feel like, you know, he just, he was that bigger guard that could guard anybody. And so as his freshman year went on, I mean, he just kept getting better. And, I mean, each year he improved a ton. But I knew he was going to be special.

Now, I was shocked. I'm not going to lie, I was shocked that, you know, obviously he was NBA All-Star, but, you know, many kids just kept improving. And he just, you know, his competitive nature, I think, there's a reason that he was as good as he was. Okay, so let's, so Bill Self leaves, what, after that year? After our sophomore year, yeah, he took off. So you guys go, you go to the tournament, you lose to Notre Dame, right?

You lost to Notre Dame in the NCAA in the second round. He beat Western Kentucky, lose to Notre Dame. What do you remember about losing the game and when Bill end up leaving and how you guys found out? so and uh you know like no one never really thought that coach would even go to Kansas because you know he was like we're upset and we wanted to play them again to beat them you know it's kind of like that if we see them do's again we're gonna we're gonna beat them and start me at the three position which you know I love playing in the wing and and I really feel like I was getting a lot better leave our team we believed in him he did a good job of you know getting us

get obviously you know we were a special team and it's good together when did you Where did you almost go? Were you going to follow him to Kansas? Where were you going to go? I don't remember. You know, one part was my dad played in Illinois State, and he was a All-American there, and maybe going to Illinois State could have been, you know,

to a mid-major. Maybe I could have to be. But, you know, I decided to stay, and I'm really happy I did because, two, my junior senior year, I thought my freshman sophomore year was good. My junior senior year, man, we really, we really won a lot of stuff. Okay, but you also played the four, right? So you said how much you liked playing the three,

and Bill started you at the three. what was the conversation like with you and Bruce Weber when you said, look, you know, we could put Augustine at the five, we got you, D. Will, D. Brown, Luther Head. Those are three guards. You know, you were, I mean, really, and we played small when I was in college. We had Deson Mason play the four. So it wasn't like you were the first of the kind, but I'm guessing that because, you know, look, in the league, there weren't six, six, four men back then, right? They just weren't. Yeah. What was that conversation like?

You know, it's funny because my junior year, I still started at the three. And, you know, I think Luther Head came off the bench. And it was, it was me, B. Barron. Nick Smith, maybe? Did Nick Smith start center? Yeah. I forget.

Maybe Brian Cook was, was Brian Cook on that team? No. No. Brian Cook graduated your, come on, man. I'm looking at the stats. I'm looking at the stats right now. No, James Augustine started the five, and there was one other player that started our junior year. Hold up.

I got the, Nick Smith started six games. Brian Randall started nine games. Okay. And Luther started 24 games. But he only played 20 years. I started, yeah, I started out playing the three. And then he brought me in and he asked, hey, would you be willing to go down to the four? Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations.

with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42.

Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help somebody, please! But there's so much more to me than that.

I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant

and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice, known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrat,

the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IFart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Like, it'll make our team more, you know, versatile, and obviously he knew that I wanted to be a wing, and obviously I worked on a lot of guard skills, and he was just like he knew that from a standpoint of getting drafted,

you know, I could think it could hurt my draft staff, which it may have very well did. But, you know, I knew and Coach Weber knew, you know, me playing the four would pose a mismatch for other teams. And I was strong enough, I was, you know, big enough, and I was athletic enough to do it. and so I said, sure, I'd do a good team, and they ended up really helping us.

I mean, I know, like, in the Big Ten play, we won, like, 13 straight games to finish out the season, and then obviously our senior year, we were 29 and one in the regular season. So, you know, it was one of those things where, like, I believe in what he was saying, and, you know, me going down before I still was starting. I thought it could help our team, and it did.

So that was a conversation. And, you know, I don't regret it because, I mean, we should literally switch one through four and it just made it made it more versatile. You guys were 26 and 6 you take on Duke in the NCAA tournament. They have Lul Dang, JJ, Daniel Ewing, Duhon, Sheldon, Sheldon, Sheldon, Shalick Randolph. And it was a close game at a half. And they end up beating you by 10. What do you remember about losing to do?

it was a tough game you know it was a tough game to lose I really wanted to beat those guys I really wanted to advance but at the same time it was fun you know I don't know I think in the game I played one of my better games I got like 18 points and like eight rebounds

and I matched up against Louis out dang someone that was I knew it was gonna be a first round draft pick so for me I took it as an opportunity to you know prove that you know I was NBA player and um but we came up short

I mean they were really good really good And, you know, I think losing that game kind of put a chip on our shoulders, going into the summer, you know, for the following season. But it was a fun game. Anytime you play in a C-16, you know, you're playing those atmospheres, those environments. It's special. Okay, so you win your, you win 29 in a row to start your senior year.

You win every game of the regular season, only to lose the regular season finale, right? To go 30 and O, you play at Ohio State. lose by one point. Here's the question that matters 15 years later. Do you remember any of the other games, or do you just remember the lost Ohio State? It's crazy because I definitely remember the loss to Ohio State more than a lot of the other games.

But that being said, I remember, you know, playing Wake Forest. You know, when they were number one, we were number three. In the Assembly Hall and we beat them by like 20 points. I remember, you know, some of the Wisconsin games. because back then, Wisconsin, we had a huge robbery. And one of my buddies who played at Lockport, which was cross-time rival, Alando Tucker played at Wisconsin. So, you know, that was always a special game for me because, you know.

You guys smoked them twice. Illinois versus Wisconsin was like Joliet Townsend versus Lockport. You know, it was kind of one of those, like, rivalries. So that was memorable games. But definitely, you know, you remember that, you know, Matt Sylvester going nuts. He wasn't even like a major part of our scound report, but the dude had like 27 points and like just totally like destroyed us.

And, uh, but at end of the day, I felt like it kind of refocused us because we went to a tournament with 30 and O, you know, I don't know if we would have ran off those, you know, eight straight games to get to the championship. Okay, so you win the Big Ten, you win the Big Ten tournament. You beat Wisconsin a third time. You go to the NCAA tournament. and you get to the elite eight chance to go to the final four.

And you guys were down the famous Illinois comeback. Were you guys down like 14 with how many minutes to go? Like that thing was, it felt like it was over, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, people turn the TV off. You know, people were upset. Our fans were quiet.

No, it was an unbelievable, unbelievable comeback. And, you know, I still do this day, don't even, know how we made it man i'm in the game praying and saying god i guess is not meant for for this to happen but i said if it is you got to help us and that's we're down 14 like i remember praying that prayer and then we got still hit a three got another still hit a three see we got another still hit a three and just like bam like the game is tied and i just knew once we tied the game i knew we were winning in overtime it was it was it was unbelievable do you own or your home? Sure you do, and I bet it can be hard work. You know, it's easy, bundling policies with

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That's perfect for me, because I'm a car guy. Are you still in the garage? It's two in the morning. Almost done. Okay, I'm a car fanatic. eBay Motors, let's ride. Yeah, you're down. I believe you're actually down 15 with four minutes to go.

It was at Allstate Arena, which, of course, that's where DePaul used to play. That used to be the Rosemont Horizon, right? So it's in the suburbs of Chicago. And you're literally, you know, you guys have arguably the greatest comeback in the history of Illinois. And then you go to overtime. Like, look, it was close. As much as you may have said, hey, coming back, tying it, we knew. they still forced overtime, and it was still a close game in overtime.

I just was confident we were going to win. And that team was good, man. They had a lot of Shannin-Fri. Who else did they have? They have a lot of really good players. No, Chaining Frye was legit. Here, I'll give you their line. Stathamire.

Salim Stottomier, Mustafa Shakur, Hassan Adams, Channing Frye. He gave you 24 and 12? Was that you who you were guarding? I guard him a little bit. but, oh no, I had, I had, when I had an 18 and, like, nine, I mean, it wasn't like, you know, like, it was, it was a little. I mean, listen, Cheney probably gave you to. It's okay. Like, Jane Frye's giving it to a lot of people. He gave you to a little bit there, but. No, actually, actually he gave it to, I'm just joking.

To James Augustine? James Augustine was matched up with him. I was matched up with their four men. Redinovich. Yeah. Ivan Redenovich. I mean, I mean, he's going to, I mean, he's court a game. Yeah, you, you guard the big white stiff. That's what you do. You're like, man, give me the stick. He, he had four. 14. I believe that's a career high, by the way. He had 14, four steals, two assists, five rebounds. It's actually, his resume tape is lighting you up.

What was my stat line? You went your stat line? You were six of 11. You had 16 points, five rebounds, four offensive boards. That's big, big five. One block, one turnover. One defensive rebound? I was going to try to get put back. Yeah. And you had four offensive fouls. Four fouls, not four offensive, but four fouls. Yeah. James Augustine fouled out. What else did I have?

I had the big what, the W, right? You had the W, you had zero assist, I want to point out. Complete selfishness. I didn't have the pass. We had three point guards on court. So you go to the Final Four, so like, look, you go from playing in Chicago, hometown, not far, playing in St. Louis. And I think everyone knew, like, you guys were on a, or I felt like, I remember covering it. You guys were on a collision course to play against.

against North Carolina. You guys stomped Louisville. I mean, you beat the heck out of Louisville in the semifinals. And then you take on North Carolina. And here you guys are 37 and 1. You know, you're 37 and 1. The only loss is by one point. And yet you guys were big-time underdogs to North Carolina.

What do you remember about preparing for the national championship game? Man, it just goes so fast. I mean, when you think about the final four, just, I remember getting there and they have that final four. ceremony where you get your ring and they get that little watch. I mean, it's just, it's, it's just a real moment. And to be honest, I don't really remember a ton of the preparation just because it's going so fast and there's so much excitement. But the one thing I do remember, this might be weird. There is, there's one moment in every game in college professionals, that, that it just,

it makes me feel special. Like, it makes me feel like I am a part of this. I am a part of this athletic event. I am in this game. I am about to perform. And that's the national anthem. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending.

Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff,

like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Come on. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help!

Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with my sage. advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike! I'm a comedian! I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit.

A cream. Cream a chicken suit. This is help from a hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coutura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every time I play, every time the national anthem, even as a coach, it's just that moment where like I take in the environment,

I take in the fans, I take in the moment. And I remember the national anthem in St. Louis, and I think it was the Rams in the, I forget the name of the dome. but I remember they had an eagle fly from the top of the dome and landed at a half court. And I remember just like, you know, the thing of the national anthem and just that moment, man,

was the time where I can really just take in, we are in the national championship game. And once it tip and once we started playing, I mean, you just, you just so focused on trying to win. You know, there's really nothing else distracting you. But, like, the national anthem at the championship game This is where I kind of took in the moment, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, no, it was amazing. And you guys took 43s. You only made 12 of them. The game was close. You end up losing by five points. I distinctly remember that locker room. We lost in Elite 8 in Syracuse to Florida in 2000.

And I'll never forget, like, looking around that locker room. And like you mentioned, it goes so fast. Like, you played four years at Illinois. You started for three of those years, and you guys won four Big Ten championships. Like, you won a lot of ball games. And then all of a sudden, like, then it's over. It's like I will probably never play with these guys ever again. And as you know, there's an incredible bond when you play in college, especially, you know, as you said, surrounded by cornfields, whatever.

Dudes are from all over, and you come together. And it's like your family. Do you remember that? Do you remember what Bruce said when it was over? Do you remember anything about that locker room? you know, I don't. I mean, obviously I cried, man. You know, just the hardest thing,

and I hate that this has to happen, but the hardest thing is coming up second, you know, in the national championship game. Like, that's the hardest thing to endure because you're walking off the court, celebration going on, and you're not celebrating. And it's funny because, like, now as a basketball coach in college, like, I go to the Final Fours every year,

and I love going to the, this game, championship game, the semifinals game, and I can always relate to the team that loses as they're walking off the court because, like, that is, like, you have this high of getting to the moment and then, bam, you come up short. It's hard. It's hard. But, you know, obviously, you're in the locker room, you know, it's just like, I mean, I think I remember coach.

Weber was a lot, very positive and, you know, just, like, really praised us for accomplishing what we did was, like, It's an unbelievable accomplishment to make it that far. You know, it kind of helped cure us up a little bit, but it stuck. No, and look, you guys went small, and they were big, and Sean May kicked James Augustine's ass, right? And you guys tried to, you did the math, you did almost analytics, three is about more than two. You guys were down big at the half. He came back, made it super close, but you just couldn't make enough shots, you know, to win the game.

Luther had five of 16, you know, but I mean, the big thing was you guys could not contain Sean May, he just kind of ate you guys alive. It was my memory of it. Is that an accurate depiction? Yeah, you know, I mean, James Augustine followed out in 10 minutes. I mean, that was kind of, to be honest, it was kind of ridiculous. You know, I just, you know, I was unbelievable how a guy can file out in 10 minutes, you know. So, you know, I know I know Sean May was really good, and I'm not thinking it didn't go away from him.

But, you know, I mean, James Augustine and she'll play more than 10 minutes in that game. That would have helped up a ton. and, you know, you just, you know, they made some big-time shots, and, you know, it was just, it was a good game, you know, and obviously we shot out threes, and, you know, some of those things fell, you know, it's a whole different game, but, you know, it is what it is. And, you know, like I said, even to this day, man,

when I see guys from North Carolina, man, it's just, we, you know, we got to experience that, you know. You know, Jackie Manuel, I see him a ton. He coached his out for where I was for five years. So we kind of had a relationship from there, and, you know, it's just like, hey, man, this is still a cool thing that we got to experience. Those guys just came out on top. So you get done playing, you go undrafted. What did you go, how did you, do you go to Summer League with the Sonics?

How did you get to, how did you get with the Sonics? Yeah, I think with the Summer League with, my first year, I kind of like, man, so long ago. I made it with the Dallas Mavericks, and then I signed with the Seattle SuperSign, I'm with the training camp with them, and I made the preseason roster. And I was like the last cut. And then from there I went to the EDA. Hold on you're going too fast here real quick. Okay.

So the Supersonics, who was in that training camp? Yeah, that's almost that's over 10 years ago. Bro. Which is crazy. You don't remember who was on, like you walk into the Seattle Supersonics. I mean, this is back when they were good. You want to know who's on that roster? Ray Allen, okay, obviously.

He was kind of nice. Jesus was on the team. You got Jesus. Those were, right? Which was awesome. Like, I got to spend a lot of time with him.

That was great. He was awesome. Rick Brunson was on that team. Yes. And Rick Brunson was somebody that I kind of continued to build a relationship with. Luke Rittenauer. Yep. Yeah.

We had some bets on that team, too. Was Damien Wilkins was on that team, I think? Damien Wilkins. Him and I were, like, competing for a spot. I don't think he was guaranteed. Reggie Evans was on that team? Yep, Reggie, Big Reddy, Iowa. Another big ten guy.

Vitaly Potopenko. They had Robert Swift was their first round draft pick. I remember him. Did you know that he was like he couldn't handle it? I didn't. I mean, it was just like I didn't at a time, but, you know, he was big and athletic. Yep. Crazy.

I had a ton of tattoos at times. Like I was back when tattoos guarded, you. becoming even more prevalent. Yeah. But I remember he had a ton. But the dude, man, he should have stuck. I don't know what happened with them mentally or whatever,

but, like, man, he was talented. Career Builder is made for people who have that thing. You know, those superpowers that make you good at your job, the skills you bring to work. And CareerBuilder knows those skills make you right for other jobs too. Higher paying jobs with benefits. Jobs you never thought of trying. Are you a people person?

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And then I got into a long-term relationship and was dating someone for a few years. And then after getting out of that relationship, I think this past year or so or whatever, or whatever, has been, like, actually living life as a single person, it's very hard. And I think it's not hard, like, not hard, I should say, but, like, it's very different, knowing nothing but long-term relationships. And then moving into, like, the single lifestyle that's, like, quote, dating around and, like, feeling people out. That's kind of been something interesting to navigate.

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So, do you remember getting cut? Sucked. I try to block those moments out, Doug. I'm here to bring them up. I'm here because I remember, so I was in training, I was in, I would do the, I did the vet free agent camp with the Lakers three different times. And I remember every time Mitch Cupcheck would come in and go like,

nah, you know, like, hey, you've been great, blah, blah. And the third time he was like, we feel like you're really close. And you should probably go to the D League. And you might have a shot at this thing. And I was a bad fit for their system. They were triangle, obviously. And I was a, I need a ball screen. You know, I need the ball in my hands.

Not out of my hands. I wasn't a shooter. And I just, I remember, I remember what I remember most, and you ultimately obviously made it with the jazz the next year. But what I remember most was you walk in the facility. And the Lakers, you walk by. Shack's picture, Kobe's picture, Magic's picture, Kareem, Wilt, Jerry West, Goodrich, everything. And at first you're, at first you're like overwhelmed.

And then everybody's so cool to you and treats you like you part of the team. They're like, yeah, I could do this. And then you start to like think about, because when you get, when I got there, I didn't think there's, I was like, there's no way I'm making the Lakers, no shot. I'm just, I need to impress other people. And then you're like, man, I could, I could do this. And then they come in like, nah, you can't do this. I remember just that being devastating to me.

I mean, if searching back in those negative memories, what do you remember about it? Yeah, it was tough, man. It was tough. You know, I felt like I should have made the team and I competed in practice. But, yeah, I was a rookie. And I knew that, you know, it was something that, you know, I had to grind harder than everybody else. And I did that. But I didn't get much of opportunity in preseason.

I didn't get much opportunity to play. So I kind of had a feeling that, you know, once the game started, that wasn't going to make it. But, you know, it just So you go to Rockford. So now you're Pack your stuff, you get cut, you go to the CBA, and this is when the CBA is not the CBA of old, but you went in and you decided to play for a team

kind of close to your hometown, like Rockford's not far from Joliet. And you were CBA rookie of the year. Why not go overseas? Why stay stateside? I wanted to play an NBA. And I was going to play in NBA, you know, and that was something that I was determined to do. And I approved. So in the CBA, I got to play the three.

And, you know, I got to nail the ball. I got to shoot three. I got to, you know, make create off the dribble. And it was good for me, you know, it was a good experience. It was great for my wife. We got married young. And we got to live not that far from my hometown. And so I feel like I was ready for an NBA roster.

So that's why I didn't go overseas. And at the time, you know, I wouldn't have got, probably a big contract overseas because I hadn't done much. So that summer, you went to, did you work out in Utah? Like, how did it come to where you went to camp with the jazz? So they had me come for a workout. And Mike, as soon as the CBA season was done, like I came there and worked out by myself. And they tried to put me to the ringer.

And I handled it, man. and they were impressed, and they ended up giving me like a partial guarantee to come to training camp. And it was them and the Miami Heat. I did workouts for both of them. The Miami Heat and the Jazz guaranteed more money. So obviously I went to the Jazz route. It was cool, man. I was there all summer.

I trained with the team, and, you know, I went to, I went to the training camp, and I got to play this year that time. And I played well in the preseason games, and they ended up keeping me. And that's when I felt like, man, I was. I arrived. I'm in NBA. It was awesome. Yeah, what's that feeling like of seeing your name on the back of your jersey when you walk in the locker room, first game in the season, and you're an NBA player? It's funny, man. When I went to sign my contract with the Jazz, now this is, I don't tell me

people this, but the first thing I did, I walk into the arena, and I'm by myself, and the guy with people from the airport, and I said, hey, just give me a second, I want to walk. I want to walk into the arena by myself, just to kind of take it all in. And believe it or not, I re and I re, I have reenacted the Michael Jordan gained six shot when they won a championship and like I literally did that

in Jazz Stadium by myself because it was just kind of cool to know that here I am in the place that that happened so the fact that I was signed with the Jazz was special but it just it just hits you that man

this league here I am I made it like I haven't you know I haven't sound like a multi-year deal or anything but yet I'm going to play a game in NBA jersey in this arena. So it was pretty cool, man. It's something now I felt, you know, it was a dream.

It was a goal that, you know, I accomplished. I want to go through really quickly each of the countries you played in, but who is the best player you ever played against in the NBA? That I guarded, and, like, I actually had to, like, go against, I would say, probably Camel Anthony. I didn't really guard Kobe much.

I didn't get a chance to guard him. But Camilla Anthony, like, we went at it, and that was pretty cool, man. That's when he was really young, and he was athletic. I mean, the dude could play. Yeah, he could score anywhere you got the ball, right? Yeah.

I mean, scored the mid-post, scoring the post, scored the mid-range, shoot some three-sum, just, I mean, just an absolute scoring machine. You can get a bucket easy. Okay, I know you went to the D-League. and then you end up going overseas, one memory of playing for Taramo in Italy. My first year over there, I made more money in Italy than I played in the NBA as a, you know,

NBA minimum. So, you know, I was getting paid a lot of money to play there. And, you know, it was cool, man. You know, it was very competitive. The league was really good. There was a lot of NBA guys in that league. The basketball was at the highest level. And, you know, it was an opportunity for me, you know, for my first time playing in Europe to, you know,

show hey that I could play and hopefully sign a bigger deal. And I just remember the arenas, man, because that was the first country I played, and I played in a lot more countries after that. But I remember the arena as in the city and how much love they had for the team. It was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. The next year you went to Jerusalem. I know you're with the Bulls in between but didn't make the final cut.

What do you remember about Jerusalem? So being a Christian, man, I mean, just living in Jerusalem was pretty cool, man. in my house was like 10 minutes away from where Jesus was, you know, crucified and buried and wrote. 15, 20 minutes from Bethlehem where it was born, you know. And that was surreal just being able to play in that environment and, you know, learn Hebrew and, you know, go to all different sites and, you know, play for Jerusalem. I mean, we had a line on our jersey. It was like the line of the tribe of Judah. And, you know, for a kid who grows up, you know, going to Sunday school, like the tribe of Judah,

It's kind of cool and special. Here I am with a lion on my jersey because I'm playing for Jerusalem. So that was a moment that a year that my wife and I will always remember. Spain the next year, what was that like? Spain was cool. That was the first time I ran to a situation where they say, hey, you know, you might not get paid. Like the sponsor didn't have any money.

And we were getting paid for the last, like, the month before Christmas. I remember kind of leaving there because I was in getting. getting paid and going to France. So, you know, the time I was in the ACB was good. Very tough league. At that time, it was very competitive. And even to the day, I think the ACB is one of the best leagues in the world, second to the NBA.

So it was good. It was fun. I mean, I got to play against Joe Ingalls, who's killing now. You know, and then they signed a major contract. I got to play against Ricky Rubio. That's when he was, like, 16, playing for Barcelona. And it was like the Spanish Justin Bieber. So that was cool

Seeing that and seeing his fanfare But it's cool, man Just all those countries, man Spain, Italy and Jerusalem I mean it's an experience that only basketball can provide For someone like myself And I just, I'm so grateful for the game And be able to live in those countries

You mentioned you went to France Then you were in the Bulls training camp twice For a kid from Chicago Last night, a blown call changed a game This morning, the internet lost its mind Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you content. and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible. incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard

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on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano.

You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help somebody, please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian, and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions.

Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream, cream a chicken suit.

This is Help from a Hypocrat, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the Mike Pulura Podcast Network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The same kid who you had that great comeback against Arizona. You reenacted the Jordan shot. By the way, when you reenacted the Jordan shot, was it with a ball or without a ball? Definitely without a ball. Okay, so you made it. There was even a court on, it was just like, there was no court on the floor in the gym.

I got you. But I just, I closed my eyes and imagined it. Okay. So, but to not make the bulls twice, how, was that, was that devastating? What was it, I mean, or was it just wasn't meant to be because you'd already played in the league and you'd already made some money doing it? What was that like for a Chicago kid? Shoot, man, any time you get killed, last time, I thought I was going to make it.

I was so close. And, you know, when you're playing well and you feel like you deserve to make the team and you don't, you know, obviously, whatever it's money deals or they want to go with a bet, I mean, whatever the reasoning is, you know, it is devastating. And, you know, at that time, though, you know, I've been playing. So I was like, oh, it is what it is. I'm going to go overseas and find a really good contract and maybe come back. Yeah, but that was a really good Bulls team, too, though, right?

Like, that was, that team won 62 games. 62. They did, man. They did, they did. And I had a great camp. And I had some really good games. I mean, like, in preseason, when I played, I mean, I, man, one of my best dunks was on Gortot. You know, my last, my last NBA buck was in the preseason.

I dunked on Gortat. Sixth, went down the lane. Bam. I mean, it was nice. And that was my last time I scored in NBA arena. and so I guess I kind of went out with a bang. I felt accomplished, I guess. Why did you walk?

It didn't count, though. It didn't count because it was preseason. No, it counts. If you got, if you got a footer, you got a footer, right? Like, it doesn't. I got a footer. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. So you go to Germany after that and you play well.

Why did you walk away and start coaching? So, you know, I had ran a sports ministry in the summer. my whole playing career. And every summer I would come home and I would do skill development with these kids. I would do mentorship. And, you know, it was kind of like my heart was in that. And every year I would go back and play.

Like, I kind of missed, you know, that side. I missed working with kids. I miss seeing guys get better. I miss being able to be around young men and share stories and see them grow and mentor them. And, like, that's what I live for. But, you know, playing basketball is what I did. You know, I was a special athlete that paid the bills.

And my last year playing, I told my wife, before the season, I said, hey, in a place like Valparais, it would open up, I don't go coach college basketball there. Had no idea it was going to happen. I just knew Homer Drew. I knew Bryce. I knew kind of how they ran their program, and I had so much respect for what they did and the way they did it. I told my wife, if I was getting the coach and I want to coach there. And the reason I said that is because my wife said, hey, you should think you should think about coaching college. I mean, she thought that I'd be good at it.

And I was like, yeah, no, never. you're away from your family, it's cut the road, it's a crazy business. I said, I'm going to keep playing basketball, make a lot of money, and then retire and go do ministry or do ESPN or something. And make a long story short, I mean, Homer Drew retires, Bryce gets the job, and I'm in the semifinals in Germany and competing for a championship. And he basically asked me a job during that time. And I had to make a decision once the season was done, do I keep playing?

do I sign this huge contract? I had a contract in all of the land. I had a lot of teams in Europe trying to sign me. My agent said there were some teams in NBA that wanted to bring me in for training camp. With all that happening, I decided to walk away and to start coaching. And that was nine years ago. I made that decision at 28 in my prime. Did you have any, that first year or second year, do you have any regrets?

No, man. You know, once I started coaching, though, and obviously, you know, my first year, we end up went in the Horizon League and we went to the NIT for a mid-major at that time was you know it was pretty good accomplishment and my second year we ended up you know winning the Horizon League regular season and then winning the tournament and going to into a tournament and I just we just started having success man and I recruited some really good players and Alec Peters and the draft pick that was went to Valpo that I got to recruit and it just it kind of I kind of fell in love with it and funny story though

my second year coaching, Alicante, I think Singler, was playing with Alicante at the time, and he left and went to the NBA. And Alicante called my agent and asked if I'll be willing to come there and play in the middle of the season. That's funny. And the contract that they were going to give me was like six times more than I was making

as a college basketball coach. My agent, my agent, Her Bruy, was like, hey, you want to pass this up? And that was the only time where I thought about it. I was like, man, should I lead coaches to get back into playing? but I did, man. I was invested. I was locked in,

and I'm happy that I did because, you know, my college coaching career is kind of taken off a little bit. Well, you guys go to Vandy. You move. Of course, you land Darius Garland, who only plays a handful of games for you, so things were looking great. What is, for people who haven't seen Darius Garland play

because he barely played for you guys at Vandy last year. What's he like? He's a point guard. and I know it sounds very simple, but, you know, there's not many, like, real point guards out there. I mean, he is a bona fide PG with great feel, great pace, great court vision, can shoot the ball, competitive, you know. I mean, he's one of those guys in practice here do something every day that you're like,

wow, he really just made that pass, or he really just had that cost over and hit that step back. You know, like, he, or, man, he really just hit that for game point. like the kid's special. And that's why, you know, we built everything around them, you know. And, you know, obviously we had some kids leave because they didn't think they were going to play a lot. And it was just, it was one of those things where like we just, we were all in, you know. And when he got hurt, man, that was a devastating blow because, you know, our team, our system was kind of, you know, built for him to do his thing. And so I'm happy that he was still able to get drafted since an NBA, an NBA draft.

and I think he's just going to have a tremendous career. And, you know, I hope that he can stay healthy because of the kids special. Yeah, I was told by some Lakers guys, they worked him out. And they said it was he and Lillard are the two most impressive shooting workouts they've had for college guys, college guards. Like that he was just unbelievable. Look, you guys go 9 and 23. Your AD dies. So the guy who hired Rice, you know, dies.

in the middle of the season. Did you know, did you have any sense that he was going to get fired? You know, we had a feeling. You know, it was a rough. I mean, our first year there, you know, we ended up making an in-sillade tournament, and, you know, no one thought we would. And, you know, those guys rallied and came together, and it was a special, special moment, man.

And, you know, that first year, Andy, you know, we thought after that, you know, whether we might get an extension or anything, It didn't happen, no big deal, but, you know, the second year, like, we finally ran into, like, the injury bug. Like, you know, our best player, all-SCC player goes out for the whole season in the middle, and right before a conference play. And, you know, we struggle. You know, we struggle, you know, with him being gone. You know, he heard a short game play. And then we find his great class, and, you know, you think to ourselves, like, oh, man, we got this great class.

We got a really good point guard. and then five games in, he goes out. Right. You know, and there are certain things that as a coach you just can't control, you can't control injuries, especially to your best player, and then only that, your point guard. And, you know, it was rough, man. It was hard.

It was the hardest two years of my life in basketball. And, you know, obviously when David Williams passes away, it just makes it even harder. And then, you know, people that you care about, because I really cared about him. He was a mentor for me. He believed in me. He actually gave me a great contract.

Like I had some head coach opportunities. I ended up staying, and he really took care of me and my family. So when he passed away, you know, that was a devastating blow. And then we get fired. And it was by far the hardest two years of my life as it pertains to basketball. Hey, all-ball community, listen up. Two of three men experienced some form of hair loss by the time you're 35. And it's one of those deals where you're like, what do I do?

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but also, you mentioned the best the SEC player got hurt. It's Matthew Fisher Davis. He was the one who fouled. He didn't know time and score. Mm-hmm. What was it really like after the game in the locker? room. The kids devastated, you know. I can't imagine what, how did you handle it? Who, who talked to him? How do you handle a situation like that? Oh, man, you love them, man. And you talked about like,

you know, you know, when you're playing in four years, the bonds you have with those guys, you know, now as a coach, I get to have that every year, you know, with the new kids. And so he's, he's one of ours, you know, he's in our fold, you know, and, you know, you embrace them. You know, was a mistake. I mean, people make mistakes all the time, you know. Coaches make mistakes. Players make mistakes. No one wants to make a mistake.

It just happens. So, you know, you love them through it, man. You know, hey, man, guys, we made a tournament. We were right there. We almost won. You know, let's come back and do it again next year. You know, keep your heads up, you know. And you're crying because you're going to miss the seniors.

You know, the thing is that you won't get to practice. Coach, teach, mentors, spend those times, spend time with it anymore. You're going to miss them. So, you know, that's what the locker is like, you know, especially as a coach because you're going to miss those guys. You know, you care about them. You know, you've seen it every day. They're like your sons, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And that's what it was like in the locker room. A lot of embracing, a lot of encouraging, crying, and a lot of excitement for the guys to come back and do it again. All right. So you mentioned that you had an unbelievable contract. So you didn't have to take a job this year. You could have spent time of your family. You guys liked living in Nashville, although that might have been awkward.

Donnie Daniels, longtime assistant, leaves and goes back to Utah where he actually came from before he went to Gonzaga. So how did it, how did Mark Few approach you? How did it come to be where you're now an assistant at Gonzaga? Well, I knew those guys for a while. I knew Tommy Lloyd. I coached his players on AIA tours and I thought he thought that I did a really good job with his guys. And we were involved in some of those future head coaches, events. The NCAA has a leadership thing, imitation only in Indianapolis and him and I got to, we're invited to that. So we got to spend time together there. And, you know, we just kind of built a relationship. relationship through that. And I was recruiting a lot in international. I was doing a lot of recruiting

in Europe. And we would see each other on the recruiting trails and have conversations. So that's really how I kind of got acquainted with Gonzaga through Tommy Lloyd. And then I've met Mark View through him a bunch of times. We've had some conversations. And, you know, when Donnie Daniels decided, like he was going to, you know, retire and move to like an obstacle position somewhere, like they had a spot. And, you know, you're right. Like, I mean, I had to look for a job. That was a part of contract, look for a job, I didn't have to take a job. Because like me, I had income for, you know, you know, three more years.

But, you know, Gonzaga was one of those places that, you know, is special. And to be able to coach under Hall of Fame coach Mark Few, to be able to, you know, coach someone out of respect, Tommy Lloyd, you know, the relationship we built. And then even Brian Michelson, who was another assistant here, man, and they do a great job. And, you know, they really felt like I fit a need for them, you know, with my energy, my youth, you know, I was associate coach at Bannibal, so, like,

I focus on defense, I have some things I can add defensively and help out with. And then obviously recruiting, you know, those areas that I love. And so it was just a good fit. It was a great fit, man. And obviously with Donnie Daniels being such a, you know, tenured coach and doing a really good job, I have some large shoes to feel, but he's been great, man, just embracing me and just kind of helping me go to the process. So it's just a perfect fit for my family and I. And, you know, there's no way I would have let this opportunity pass up.

You mentioned your family. You have two kids, wife, and you are, you're a tried and true Christian. But there's this, if you say, if people don't know you and they say, Roger Powell, Jr., basketball coach, there's, for whatever reason, and I think a lot of it is how we cover it in the media, but some of it is just people's perception. The thought is that, yeah, everybody's dirty, everybody cheats. what's the reality like for a guy who believes in doing it the right way and how hard is it to compete at the highest level?

You're in the SEC and now you're at Gonzaga. You're trying to recruit top-level recruits. How hard is it to do it the right way? Well, first of all, I got three kids. I just had one. That's right. I forgot. I've seen all the pictures.

That's right. My bad. Yeah. But yeah, my faith is really important to me. And, you know, I'm not perfect. I strive to be Christ-like. I try to be a galley man every day. And, you know, I try to apply that to the way that I coach.

I try to apply that to the way I live. And, you know, one thing I never want anyone to say that my success came from cheating. I always wanted to be from hard work, from, you know, from a relationship, from just being a good guy. And I never wanted to do it to say he got that done because he cheated. it. And so, with that being said, I just don't deal with it. You know, I just do it the right way. And there are a lot of guys, believe

or not, I think, that are the same. You know, you hear the guys who do things the wrong way, who cheat, and sometimes I mean, guys, you know, I don't think guys blatantly cheat. Sometimes I think it's legitimate accidents. I mean, there's a lot of rule changes. A lot of things that come into play that, you know, they just don't know about or they forget

about. So those, I mean, no one's perfect. But blatantly cheating, you know, I just don't deal with it, man. You know, and I just, I do it the way I know, the way I was taught, the way I learned from Bryce and Homer, and obviously here in Zaga, they do things the right way, and, you know, that's all I know. One thing that made Bill Self special as a coach.

And there was a lot, a ton, but I think he related to the players extremely well. Like, he can get the most out of guys. Like, I would have ran through a wall for him, you know, and he was, he had the confidence that made the team feel confident, but at the same time he had that fire that would make guys play a lot harder. So I thought he just, his just the way that he handles his guys,

I think for me, makes him special. And obviously, he knows the game. He's a mastermind. You can't just have one area and win that many big 12 championships. You have to have a lot of different areas that you're good at, but managing players,

personality, getting the most of our guys, I think is what separated him. Bruce Weber, same question. Bruce was a great teacher. You know, he was able to teach the game and make it simple

for us to go out and execute. He's one of the best teaching coaches that I played for. And he had a really good way to relate to the guys, too. But he just made it simple for us. And I think that's why he fits so well with, you know, our team. Because, you know, he just broke it down.

And it's funny because we played against him. At the end of the – I got the coach against them. And, you know, I spent a lot of time, you know, going over what they did and just, you know, their schemes, their offense and stuff. And, you know, he's a great coach. He makes great adjustments in games. And, you know, I've coached against a lot of guys over the last, you know, nine years. And he's one that stood out, you know, just kind of how, you know,

he makes decisions and games and how he comes back when we run a play we get a score what he run the next time down to kind of stop the momentum it was pretty cool best thing about bryce true brice man i think bryce is probably one of the best offensive coaches out there uh he he's he's a mastermind when it comes to getting guys and positions to do well taking a team and totally changing set schemes to fit players personalities and players skills. And he does a great job of getting the most of those guys as well. You know, he's very

detail-oriented and, you know, and that's something that I've learned because, like, I was, I kind of was more of the defensive side, but just watching him over the years, you know, his play calling and just the way he teaches the game. It was fun to see. And

he's a basketball in Psychopedia, man. Basketball runs through his veins. I mean, Scott Drew, Homer Drew, I mean, that family knows a game of basketball. And, you know, it was just such a blessing to be able to be with him for eight years. And even to this day, we're really close friends, man. Last thing, you mentioned that you've been the defensive guy.

When people prepare for your style of defense, what is it that is unique or different from others? You know, I think, you know, there's a lot of things that we did. I think at Vanderbilt and at Thapelot and at Thoppel, that, you know, really, made teams really prepare for us. I don't want to give too much information because if someone hears about it, I don't want them to get my scheme. But, you know, we get after it. I love man-and-man defense.

I love gaps. Gaps defense, protecting the paint, making guys shoot contested two-point jump shots. And then we did a really good job of, like, you know, trapping the post. You know, that was something that, you know, I think a lot of teams had to prepare for, you know, for us.

And when we get turnover, rapid turnover, you know, and those are pretty much from our schemes that I think separate up. And that's won a lot of games, especially at Alpo. Yeah. A lot of games. Yeah. Well, listen. And our first year, our first year of Vanderbilt.

Listen, the weird thing about trapping the post is, you know, like your team in Illinois, one of the first to play with very limited post-play, right? And so that the idea when I played in college, used to post-duce, post-to-post. But now, I mean, how many teams will play with two bigs? very, very, very few, so you have to kind of change the rotations and defense continues to evolve as the offense continues to evolve as well. Hey, I've already taken up way too much of your time. Obviously, I'm so happy you've landed at a great place, and I can't wait to hear what happens next.

The meantime, we'll watch the Zags this year, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on your new squad as you guys start to get after it. Appreciate you join us. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate you, too. catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays at noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific. My thanks to Roger Powell Jr. for joining us and for the

Gonzaga coaching staff for letting him come on. Make sure you tell a friend, download, subscribe, and rate. And oh yeah, by the way, check out the Doug Gottlieb show. Every day, 3 to 60 Eastern time on Fox Sports Radio, 12 to 3 Pacific Time. Also in the IHeart Radio app. We're on the Dan Patrick channel on Sirius XM Satellite. radio or you can just download that podcast.

But tell a friend, and thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is Albaugh. If you work in IT, you'll want to check out ChangeMakers, a podcast, profiling IT industry leaders. We dive deep into IT profiles and learn what it takes to drive large-scale IT transformations for successful businesses. Visit changemakers.freshworks.com. Do you own or rent your home? Sure you do, and I bet it can be hard work. You know, it's easy. Bundling policies with Geico. Geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowners or renters insurance along with your

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