The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - Westbrook stats argument is dead; 2nd Round NBA Playoff Matchups; Guest: Louisville Asst. Luke Murray

Episode Date: April 26, 2019

This week, Gottlieb looks at if the Thunder are fixable after another first round exit, why the stats argument for Russell Westbrook is dead, why Damian Lillard's series winning three is a product of the new NBA, and the latest revelations of the NCAA/FBI trial, Louisville Assistant Luke Murray hops on the pod to discuss his unique basketball background as the son of Bill Murray, carving out his own path, coaching Kemba Walker in AAU, and if he's ready to run his own program. Subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me. What you know. Is somebody coming after me?

Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything.

I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Allamigen, what's good was popping.

It's your girl, Amara la Negra. You may know me from the reality show we love in hip-hop Miami. Los Guido to listen to my weekly podcast, exactly Amara, where I'll be talking about all the good and none of the BS. Let me excite your mind

with topics like dating, sex, ship. So listen to exactly Amara every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. Brought to you by Metro, by T-Mobile, rule your day with 5G. Millions of Americans

are getting back to work. Career Builder calls it the great rehire. And we want to help you get the best jobs before everyone else. Career Builder gives you

the competitive edge to get the job you want, at the salary you want, with the benefits you want. We even send job alerts, so your perfect job lands right in your inbox. Go to careerbuilder.com today or get left with whatever jobs are left.

Find your next job fast at careerbuilder.com. There's a recipe for getting your car running just right. And eBayMoters.com has all the ingredients you need. They have over 122 million car parts and accessories in stock all at the right prices. Now that's tasty. eBaymotors.com. Let's ride. Hey, it's Doug Gottlie. Welcome in to All Ball, the All Basketball podcast all the time.

Luke Murray, assistant coach at Louisville. And yes, he is the son of Bill Murray. He's going to join me as my guest. We'll talk about his career path that's taking him to Louisville. What's going to take to get him a head coaching job? Plus, does he get people who say, well, you know, is Bill Murray's son? Pretty fascinating stuff. Plus, he was Kemba Walker's AAU coach.

Did he know that Kemba Walker would. be, well, Kebba Walker. Plus, he's a huge Jordan fan, and I'm guessing he'll agree with me on this. It's not because LeBron's not in the playoffs. Like, look, when we contextualize LeBron not being the playoffs this late in his career after a historic run of NBA finals, like, okay, I'm fine with it. As long as you're fair and you're contextualized the fact that when Jordan was swept out of the playoffs, for example, by the Boston Celtics, that was a year which he missed

most of the year with the foot injury. And they were terrible. They were below 500 team. He dropped 63 in a playoff game against one of the best teams of all time, the Boston Celtics. Everybody would have been swept. That would have happened to LeBron's playoff teams early in his career. I mean, he didn't make it the first two years. The thing you can't do.

And Russell Westbrook being beaten in the playoffs for a third consecutive year in the first round since Kevin Durant leaves. And this, despite the fact, they've always had some other star or all-star, budding, all-star caliber player. One is a sign that their roster is flawed. Two is a sign that Russell Westbrook's game is flawed. But three, and this is a really important one. Our use and overuse of statistics to make somebody's argument in terms of historic greatness is done.

It's not usually made by basketball people. If stats were the, if stats in basketball or what they were in baseball, in terms of the meaningfulness, well, then Will Chamberlain is the greatest player ever. It's not close. But he's not. And the reason was because the game was so different.

There was a lack of size. There was a lack of defense. And when he came upon like a legit big-time defensive player and Power forward slash center and Bill Russell, he didn't win. Because sports, last time I checked, we played them not to accrue the most stats. We played them to win, the byproduct of playing his stats for the best players. So I think Russell Westbrook getting beaten the playoffs the last three years, averaging a triple double all three years, and people trying to beat down my throat that he's

the, you know, he's historical greatness. It's like, no, the stats are just inflated. more possessions. He dominates the ball more, but more shots at both ends is more misses, more rebounds. More possessions means more assists. He's not a great passer. Nothing you can tell me. He's not a terrible passer, but he's not a great passer.

And yet he averages double figures and assists. Why? Because of tempo and usage rating. And the way in which basketball is played now. And I would also say that the Thunder are, you know, Stephen Adams is a guy of a four gone era, right? Like he's not a scoreer as a center. He's not a shot blocker.

He's a good, not ridiculously great rebounder. And oh yeah, by the way, part of his rebounding is his numbers are hurt by the fact that Russell Westbrook's down there getting rebounds when he should be getting outlet passes. I don't know how you fix the thunder. I don't. I mean, do I like

the idea of getting shooters all around? Sure, but you're still going to need rim protection. You know, you can't just go and get a bunch of shooters to go around Russ, who's at times overrated defender. A good defender is tough, but he does get beaten. He's beaten by C.J. McCullum several times there late in the game in game five. And Paul George, who looks like he's going to need another minor surgery.

Like how many years, how many minor surgeries? That's what you're building around. You still need a guy who can defend the rim. And you need guys that can shoot. And you have a couple of bad contracts there, starting which is Russell Westbrook, who I don't feel like you're going to trade. Stephen Adams, who would be really, really hard to get any sort of return on that investment. But the biggest takeaway from Russ versus Damien Lillard, on one hand is he can't overuse

stats. Case in point, Russell Westbrook, if you simply went by his stats, you could make the case that he's the best player in the NBA the last three years. But nobody actually believes that. So let's stop going by stats. Then we got Damien Lillard, who this is the Steph Curiazation of basketball. When Paul George said that's a bad shot, he's not wrong. That is a lower percentage shot, although guys are shooting from further out at a higher percentage than ever before.

So it's a bad shot, but it's not as bad a shot as it was always deemed to be. When I first start playing in college, both of my college coaches, John McLeod, of course, just passed away. And Eddie Sutton both thought the corner three was. the worst shot in the sport. And the reason is, when guard takes it, there's no defensive balance. And he's not wrong. Still that way in the NBA. It's also considered a more difficult shot because of the background.

That can be different as opposed to having the backboard as your background. Stats have told us that the corner three, at least in the NBA, because it's closer. And I think because guys work on it a little bit more has become a more makeable shot. It still lacks the defensive balance. The point is, though, the game has changed. We've embraced the three-point shot, and we've embraced the deep three-point shot. Guys that are shooting NBA-3s in college, of course, are shooting beyond NBA-3s and the pros. And that all started with Steph Curry.

Like, Steph Curry is a breakthrough player as a guy who's not really a point guard, has become a decent defender, but super, super clever. is a high turnover guy, but a high reward assist guy. But more than anything, his shots, because he shoots so many shots from such incredible range, he's changed the perception of what's a bad shot and what's a good shot. It almost is any shot staff takes is, in fact, a good shot because he seems to shoot such a remarkable percentage from so many odd angles under such duress and from such distance. I still like the warriors to advance past the Rockets

at the time of this recording, they were just beaten by the Clippers. Should be pointed out, KD, had 45 points and looked like the best player in the sport. The Rockets survived the Utah Jazz. Ricky Rubio shot a big air ball in the corner, and then Donovan Mitchell had a miserable game, turned a ball over twice, down the stretch, and they lose. I think the Rockets will give the Warriors a very good series. I still think the Warriors have three shot makers,

as opposed to as opposed to the rockets. Although how about the defensive style by which the Utah Jazz force James Hardin in the lane, just put him playing on the backside of his left shoulder. I've never seen, literally never seen that before, but that's exactly what they do. I don't know how the Warriors could, in fact, employ that defensive strategy. As for the Lakers and Magic Johnson still being involved, I don't think this is a Kelly Ann Conway. I don't think that that Magic leaving because he was mad because they were talking shit behind his back.

I don't think that's a lie. I think that's reality. I think Magic wants to be, he still wants to be the most popular former player in the NBA. Whereas Jordan's an owner, Jordan can be quiet and aloof. Magic wants to be the center of attention and wants to still be the guy that gets the credit when the Lakers get reinvented. But I would tell you that while the release, while the story that Rick Buecker had, that Rob Polinka and Jeannie Bus were emailing each other back and forth and they forgot that Magic was blind-seed on those emails. And by talking shit behind their back, they exposed that that's exactly what happened to him. On the other hand, the fact that they could in fact talk shit and that there was no, hey, no, magic's actually doing a great job, only shows how inept he was at his.

job, right? And then as for the Christian Dawkins trial, which continues to take place, I think it's fascinating. Christian Dawkins is a guy who... Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight. to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the

highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud.

But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star, Leila Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel on.

Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladecki. The ability to show gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning.

It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. He is a convicted liar. And he has wiretapes of other people saying things as well as wiretaps of him saying things. I think we're getting closer and closer to the truth. I believe that some of the people that America wants. you to believe has their hands clean, might have their hands dirty, because why would a player go,

I've said this about Cam Newton, right? Cam Newton was reportedly offered a crazy sum of money, right? Or he asked for a crazy sum. It was $150,000 from Mississippi State, and they balked at it. If he wanted money and he went to a different school, doesn't stand a reason that he got money from that other school. Well, isn't that the case with all of these other names that are being bandied about in college basketball? I don't know, fascinating world.

I think the Celtics beat the Bucks. I do think that the Bucks are tailor-made to beat this kind of, Celtics are tailor-made kind of beat the Bucs system. I'm not as down on the 76ers as others are, but I think Kauai Leonard is nasty. And I think we're going to have Raptors, Celtics, in the Eastern Conference Finals, and I think we'll have Warriors versus Nuggets in the Western Conference Finals.

BetRiver's Sportsbook wants to invite you to discover the complete sports betting experience. The foundation of that experience is a massive number of betting options on nearly every regulated sporting event around the world. Add on top of that live streaming of sports every day. There's almost always a live match to watch on BetRivers Sportsbook right in your phone. BetRivers features top-tier customer service, ready to answer your questions any time day or night. Plus, they have this unique rush-pay system, and BetRivers Sportsbook can authorize most withdrawal requests instantly. Customer satisfaction is always their number one priority, and Bet Rivers will match your first deposit up to $250.

Now, unlike some other sportsbooks, BetRivers only requires a one-time pay-through and turn bonuses into cash, so you're going to experience the difference. Just go to betrivers.com, you'll see it for yourself. You must be 21. It must be President Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, or Pennsylvania to play. You had a gambling problem called 1-800 gambler. Remember, BetR-R-R-R-R-E-H-R-E-H-R-E-R-S-E-B-E-R-E-R-S.

Remember, Bet-R-V-R-R-E-R-E-R-S, millions of Americans are getting back to work. CareerBuilder calls it the great rehire. And we want to help you get the best jobs before everyone else. CareerBuilder gives you the competitive edge to get the job you want, at the salary you want, with the benefits you want. We even send job alerts, so your perfect job lands right in your inbox. Go to careerbuilder.com today or get left with whatever jobs are left. Find your next job fast. at CareerBuilder.com. Hey, All Ball Community.

Listen up. Two of three men experienced some form of hair loss for the time you're 35. And it's one of those deals where you're like, what do I do? How do I avoid this thing?

Is it smart? Don't be a statistic. If you're a little bald or a lot bald, fix it in a simple stress-free way. Try Keeps. What you do is a virtual doctor consult at keeps.com. And then the medications are delivered straight to your door.

It's low cost with treatment starting at just $10 a month for FDA-approved medications, and they can prevent hair loss. Keeps as more five-star reviews than any of its competitors. And don't walk around with pattern baldness. We all know it's not cool. It just doesn't feel right. Prevention is, in fact, the key.

So if you're ready to stop messing around, you got a new year, a new energy towards fixing the little things like hair loss, you want to prevent hair loss, go to k-e-e-p-s.com. You get your first month of treatment-free. That's K-E-E-P-S-E-S-D. Keeps.com slash all ball. Let me get you to Luke Murray.

Luke's a friend. Luke's assistant coach at Louisville. Luke's had quite the journey. Of course, Luke is also the son of Bill Murray. So, what do we start? I mean, like here's what I like to do, Luke,

is I like to start at the very, very beginning of your kind of basketball journey. And it's interesting that when you finally said like, okay, I'll do it like i brought you along kicking and screaming um i i didn't realize how young you are i had no idea i just i thought of you as like exactly my age it's not the hair thing don't take a personal mine's not good either um i just feel like you've been in this thing since uh you know since you got

out of school so maybe it makes you seem older um all right you grew up in fairfield connecticut I actually grew up in New York. I grew up in Manhattan and then moved out to Westchester County. And then for high school, moved to Connecticut. My parents split up. So I moved to Connecticut for high school and ended up going to Fairfield University for college. All right. So let's let's get to you.

You're in New York. And like my vision of New York is, it's like two different phases. When I was a kid, my dad was in New York. My dad was from the Bronx. They moved out to Long Island when he was like 13. and he used to take me back every summer, and he'd throw me in pickup games, and I used to hate New York pickup games.

No nets on the rims. All playing on asphalt. Like, everybody just dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribbled. I don't know. I didn't have a great. And, you know, he'd take me to places that he used to play when he was a kid. Your first basketball memories are what?

My first basketball memories are going to Nick games. Honestly, they're probably not my own memories, although I used to play. outside a lot when I was growing up. It's kind of like in the Riverside Park area on the Upper West Side. But it's really going to see the Knicks Live at that time. My dad had kind of had a little bit of a partnership with the NBA. I think there was some commercial that he was running where he was going to come back

and make it come back to the NBA. And so around that time, we got Nick season tickets, and we used to watch MJ and all the great players come through the garden. So that was kind of like my first real exposure. to the game. Okay, but your experience in watching an NBA game is not like mine. Like, I'm guessing really, really good seats in backstage access. Like, again, I don't want to paint you as Super Silver Spoon Kid, but I'm just guessing that you weren't several roads.

You are just a little bit, a little bit. Is that unfair? No, I think my dad was, you know, my dad kind of came from really humble upbringing. He's got eight siblings and didn't have a ton of money growing up. And so I think he's always kind of really challenged us to earn everything that we got. So we had some good seats, some games, and other games we were up in the nosebleeds. I think he wanted us to kind of feel both sides of it. What was he like in terms of basketball?

Like I only bring it up because my dad was like a former coach and it was actually always a coach. So he literally coached the entire time watching game. And then I have to like balance it out with my son. like I can't be the annoying always point out, but I do want to point out a thing or two that I can show him that I want him to watch. Like what was he like when you're watching a game? Probably not as analytical, you know,

from the coaching side of things. I think he had more of kind of a general understanding of the sport. But huge Chicago Bulls fan, so loved MJ, so really had us locked in on watching him and studying those guys. But he was a big fan of the role players, so it was always trying to emphasize. the importance of Air Canada, Bill Wennington, or John Paxon or Steve Kerr and those guys coming off the bench making big shots.

And so it was kind of more fan than coach. But he really introduced us to everything that we knew about sports growing up and taking us to Cub games and Met games and Yankee games and trying to expose us to as much as we could. You have a favorite moment? If you close your eyes, you think about childhood. It can be any sport. Do you have one that you draw back on? now obviously with your own son thinking about?

Favorite moment? That's a good question. I would say favorite moment growing up was going to the All-Star game in Baltimore when I was kid baseball All-Star game and watching Ken Griffey hit it off the warehouse behind, I guess it's right field. That was pretty cool growing up. And my dad was in a little home run derby with Michael Jordan, Tom Selleck, Madrasht, Patrick Ewing.

and it was kind of a crazy. I think Tom Selleck was the only one who hit a homework as he had some Mr. Baseball experience. But that was pretty fun. Was this all normal to you? Like being around these people and their families, did that strike you as normal? Or did you understand at the time that that was not

what the rest of the world was experiencing? Both, probably. I mean, I think I understood that that wasn't what the majority of the world was experiencing. But at the same time, it was kind of what I knew. but again kind of like I said earlier my dad was always to keep us as humble as possible and make sure that we didn't start to you know take on any sort of arrogance or you know and understanding that that there was a bigger world out there for sure when you move out to westchester so for people I mean it is like you like I've always so many of my friends

that live um in Manhattan or on the island of Manhattan whatever they you know they they're we just always thought we were back they were like, man, I'd love to do it, but I couldn't because my son's just a, you know, he's an energizer bunny and I like playing sports to them. And so we moved to Westport and honestly what sold me in the house was it had like a tennis court and I made into a basketball court. And we had like a backyard. We made into like a baseball field. I'm like, all right, we're just going to, when the weather's okay, we're going to play outside every day. What was, was that your, when you moved out to Westchester, was that what happened that you all of a sudden you had? Yeah. Yeah, it was totally different.

Growing up in the city, you didn't really know any better. And so there weren't a ton of fields. You know, you were just kind of playing on asphalt or going to the park or something like that. And so that's just kind of the experience that kids have growing up in New York, no matter where you are in the city, whether you're in Manhattan or in any of the outer boroughs. But moving to Westchester was different, you know, and spent some time in Rockland County, too. So just kind of all throughout suburban New York and just having more of an opportunity

to play on a real little league team and not playing, you know, Joe Espon, knows it at Dykman Park, but like playing on a real field with a lot of, you know, a lot of other kids and being exposed to being able to be outside and playing football and basketball and baseball all the time and having a little bit more room to kind of grow up and have a little bit more traditional childhood was fun for sure. Yeah, yeah. No, it's definitely a, it's definitely a trip. I don't know if you ever heard this story. So Tim Hasselback, they lived in the city with, you know, Elizabeth. and he you know they got a couple kids and he wanted to get out of the city they wanted to get out so they rented a house I think in Greenwich one uh one summer and the first day they come downstairs and uh you know they just want to

try it right and the their kids are like hey dad dad can we go to the park and he's like guys it's 7 30 in the morning like i just can we just have breakfast and like no to dad it's right there. Can we go to the park? It's right there. Like, guys, that's the backyard. Go, go outside and play, right? Like, just the whole idea of that's got to be a park because, you know, there's a swing set and there's a jungle gym and there's room to run around. When did you, when did you know that you loved basketball? You know, probably, when I was a kid, probably 10 or 11 years old, I think is the first time that I went to the ABCD camp.

And that, to me, it wasn't so much to my love of basketball. I think growing up, for me at least, it was all like a seasonal thing. Like I was the biggest baseball fan in the world in the spring. I was a huge basketball fan in the winter. I liked football in the fall. And so whatever season it was, that was kind of what I was into. But going there and really having, first of all, like the biggest Michael Jordan fan in the world to this day, that's all I want to talk about to anybody.

So that kind of always stayed with me. And that probably made me a fan of basketball more than anything. But then, like, in terms of, like, actually seeing a path and what that meant, I really thought it was going to be, like, a front office NBA guy. Like, I would walk around, you know, apartment I grew up in the house later on, like, in a suit thinking that I was the general manager of the Knicks. And I had, like, a notepad. And my mom got me, like, a soccer, like, play, you know, like, almost like a whiteboard using basketball. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was basketball.

It was soccer. and so like I would draw plays on there and then somehow like I would also transition into the role of general manager later on in the day. And that was kind of like what I thought it was going to be because I was pretty clear that the whole basketball playing thing was going to stop for me relatively soon. And so that thing and then the whole ABCD camp and watching Tracy McGrady and all like the young great players come in there, even though I was, you know, just to kid myself, I think that really kind of sparked something that wanted me to be around college basketball and coached. coaching and just kind of take it from there. All right, here's mine. So I grew up in Orange. We moved to Orange, California in 81.

My dad was an assistant or Tex winner at LaMittance. That's my Bulls connection was Tech's. And every time they'd come to town, we'd go up to Marina Del Rey, and we'd hang out with Tex, and they would talk basketball, and I would hope to run into Michael Jordan in the lobby. And I used to walk down the street. My driveway was not flat. it was like an incline. And so later on when they had those wheeled out hoops when I was in high school,

I had a hoop on my street, which I used a bunch. But, you know, so I used to walk down this kid, Garrett Phipp's house. He had like the perfect long driveway. And it was flat and he had a hoop in the garage and it was 10 feet. Like it was perfect. And he never played on it. And his parents were like, you can play on whatever you want. Garrett never plays on it.

Garrett was my brother's age. And they would like ride bikes. and taunt me and right in the garage and close the garage door. And there was like Takate posters. I remember up on the roof on the top of the ceiling where it's like girls basically their boobs hanging out or whatever. And I'm out there shooting hoops completely lost on what they're doing inside the garage. But I used to announce the games. I used to play.

I used to imagine myself playing all these games I saw on TV. And I'd announce it either in Brett Musburger's voice or this is Howard Co. sell. Well, live here in Orange, California. And then when I would hit the game winner, I would run home. And my mom had these plants called Birds of Paradise. And the flowers looks like a bird, but the leaves are these big, long, flat, like tropical leaves. And I'd smack fives with, I'd pretend like it was introductions when I would run out to the court. I would slap fives. And then when I'd hit the game winning shot, I'd slap fives as I was going into the locker. Like you're adoring fans as you were going to the locker? Yes. Yes. Yes. That's awesome. That's essentially

I've fully embarrassed myself. Okay, so now, was there ever, you always knew it was going to be sports, why'd you go to Fairfield? Well, I think, you know, with the thought of being a coach in mind, you know, I was actually a better football player than basketball player in high school, and I didn't really care for football. It just kind of came a little bit more natural and easier to me, and so as much as I worked on being a good basketball player,

really wasn't working the same way. And so I got recruited by a lot of schools to play football. And so that was kind of where my thought is, like, okay, I guess I'm going to play football even though I don't want to. And at the last second, you know, I just kind of decided that I really wanted to try to invest in being a coach and commit my time and energy to trying to coach high school team. So I coached the high school that I went to and I started coaching some AAU club ball. And, you know, being in Fairfield allowed me to be around, you know, be around the action

and kind of be around where I was from and where my relationships were. were within high school basketball and AAU. And so that was kind of it. And so I became close with Timotool, who was the head coach at Fairfield at the time, and kind of started to build some of the network of college coaches that I knew. And, you know, at the end of my time at Fairfield, when I graduated in 2007, I had made so many different relationships and connections with college coaches that Tom Moore, who had just become the head coach at Quintopiac, offered me the job

to be the director of operations there. Yeah, those are two guys I know really. really, really well. Let me ask you about Tim, because now he's become, he's bounced kind of program to program program as kind of like one of those old heads savants a little bit. You know, he spent time at Syracuse. He spent time at Duke. And he's one of the guys actually that I think help implement Duke's 2-3 zone. He's done the same thing at Stanford and another place. What was he like this year? Yeah. So what was he like as a coach? Like what can you take from him that others should know or you could you could learn about well he's like my spiritual

advisor you know he he is up every morning at like five and he usually leaves me a voicemail referencing like yoga nandi and all kinds of different things that he's reading constantly reading it's like a voracious studier of all different types of religions and um philosophies and so he's he's a really smart guy and so i just try to talk to him a little bit about life um outside to basketball. But he just, he has a real passion and an energy and an enthusiasm about him, which I think is contagious. You know, I remember when I was at Rhode Island, we played an NIT game against Stanford,

and it was two and a half hours before the game, and he was just drenched in a full sweat working out the big guys. And he just had the same sort of energy as a 22 or 23-year-old coach would, and he's carried that with him throughout. You know, and I think when we first connected when he was at Fairfield, he just had a lot a pride to the university, you know, having played there and was a captain, I think, three or four times during his career. You could tell that it really meant something to him.

And so I guess more than anything, X's and O's-wise, I just try to take a little bit of his spirit. All right, let's, let's keep working in chronological order, because I do want to get to the Fairfield thing. Okay. Okay, so from there you go to Quinnipeak. Now, here's my, can I, do you know my Quinnipiac story? Your dad was the coach of Quinnipiac.

Bert Conn, right? Yeah, Bert Con was the head coach. So my dad was a high school coach, and he kind of bounced all around. He started at fair. His first job was at Fairlawn High School in New Jersey. And he replaced QB. Brown. He was the previous coach. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, some unbelievable stuff. And he had coached in Dillon Vale, Ohio. My dad was actually the coach one year at Death Valley High School. He drove the bus. I swear to God. the yearbook and everything, like the head coach at Death Valley High School. And then he's in Colorado Springs one year.

Like he was just, and obviously his dad wasn't what your dad was, but in his own field, he's very successful. And he, my grandpa was an accountant, put himself through school, working a couple of jobs, became a very successful accountant. And then later in life, you know, what he would do as an accountant would, you know, he'd look at people's books and think, I can fix this. and he actually started taking over car dealerships and became like the biggest,

I think the biggest independent car dealer on Long Island. Then he was a four dealer. Wow. So anyway, but he never really got why my dad was doing this. Like my dad went to Syracuse for a year and was a walk-on. Then Ohio State he graduated from was like a JV player and a walk-on when they went to when they had their great teams and Bob Knight was there and John Havilechek and Jerry Lucas was there.

And then he goes to Columbia and gets his master's. And instead of going to business or to go in my grandpa's business, he goes into basketball. So his first college job was at Quinnipeak. Bert Kahn was the coach. My dad was the freshman coach, the JV coach, and the soccer and the golf coach. And I was like, and I've never remember, never forget the story. I was like, how did you know how to coach? Did you ever play golf?

He's like, no. Did you ever play soccer? He said, no, I played it at camp. I was like, so how did you know how to coach? She's like, I bought a book. I bought a book. We used to have to line the fields, you know, like all that stuff. Obviously, it's a time long ago.

So Tommy comes over from Yukon, and what was your Quinnibiac experience like? It was great. You know, I think for me, I was probably in a role that I wasn't prepared to fill, director of operations, and I was 21 or 22 years old, and I really didn't know what that meant as much as I had. kind of been around high school basketball, club basketball. I had no understanding of like scheduling buses, booking hotels, you know, at that point, it was all the tape exchange.

So sending out all the videotapes and trying to get them back in time for the games. And I remember I requested a bunch of games from conference opponents. And I got back all these letters like, hey, they're in our conference dummy. I'm not sending you their videos. You know, all those kinds of things that I just had no understanding up on the front end, trying to run the camp. And so it was a really, it was a good year for me, just from a learning perspective. Coach Moore is somebody I stay in touch with to this day, and we have a really good relationship.

But I think it was clear to me that the operation side of things probably wasn't in my future. So I really wanted to kind of get started with being a coach and being on the floor and being involved in recruiting. As you kind of start to form your basketball mind, right? Like you've gone from, okay, now you're, now you got, now you got two programs in it. Where were you in terms of, okay, this is how I think I would do it, how I would play, what I think the right way is. Because what I found is, look, there's no one right way or one wrong way to play. I think it's different. I do think it's different if you've played or haven't played.

I do think it's different if you've been in multiple systems as opposed to one system. And I think that always, you know, as you look down the bench, like, everybody kind of has that, you know, if I was doing this, this is what we would do. So at that point, your career, were you play like Yukon guy, or were you play like Tim O'Toole guy, or did you always have kind of your own way that you want to play going back to when your mom gave you the whiteboard? I think that, you know, a couple times along the way when I was coaching in high school and coaching in AAU, people that I respected gave me the advice to try to look at the game more from the offensive side of things.

And I think that that's probably been really good advice for me moving on in my coaching career. I think a lot of people have an understanding for kind of how to coach positional defense and the slides and the rotations are kind of the same. The drills are pretty similar. I think trying to have an involved mind in terms of how to coach offense and understanding spacing and how to get guys shots and how to be hard to guard is something that I was always trying to think about, even as a young coach.

So I think defensively, the styles were pretty similar from Fairfield to Quinepiac. And honestly, throughout my entire career, I've always been with coaches who have believed in tough half-court man-to-man and really, you know, prided themselves on being good defensively rebounding teams and keeping the ball out of the lane. but I think offensively it's just kind of tried to grow every single chance I could, you know, watching a lot of international basketball and studying, you know, NBA teams because I think they're always kind of a step ahead college in terms of what they're doing on the offensive. Yeah, it's really interesting.

My experiences are the same in terms of the international stuff and the NBA stuff. And I do think that colleges have been slow kind of to evolve. When you were coaching in AU, what A.A.U. What A.U. What A.U. program we're coaching? I coached New York Gouchos. And that was kind of my connection to Tom initially because we had Kimball Walker and Durant Scott, who played at Miami. And so there are different guys that Yukon was recruiting.

And so those are kind of the initial relationships that were formed there. What did you think of – what was it like to coach Kemba at that point in time of his life? Well, we – with all due respect to Amir Brown, I'm going to reference here in a second. We started Amir Brown at the two. Our starting point guard was Jordan Theodore, who played at Seton Hall, and is having a great career overseas. Amir Brown, who went on to play at Wesleyan College, Division III, was our starting shooting guard. Durant Scott started at the three, played at Miami.

A kid named Curtis Loving was the four-man, and we alternated through a couple different five men. But we brought Kemple off the bench. Going into his senior year? What years is? Well, this is going into his junior year. So he just finished his sophomore year at Rice. I think he was like the six or seven fan at Rice, and his identity was like he's an unbelievable defender. hard-nosed kid, great athlete, great speed.

Can't shoot. But, like, wasn't, yeah, wasn't really there yet as an offensive player. So we had truck Brian as well, who played a lot for us, who went to West Virginia. And so, like, those were kind of the feature guys. Chris Fouch, who was a shooter off the bench, who played a Drexel. But Kemble was kind of the guy who would come in and change the game with his energy, get stops for us, get us out on the open floor and finish at the rim. And it wasn't clear until, like, later on in May and June,

as we headed towards July that he was really emerging as the top guy. But always incredibly humble, great kid. His teammates loved him. Really easy to coach. And totally driven by winning, which I think has kind of remained a constant form. Yeah. Okay. So everyone always says, oh, I knew.

Guys that coach him, oh, I knew. But did you have any idea? No idea. No idea. I remember he made two big free throws against the Metro Hawks to win a big tournament. in April and I was like man that was that was tough you know that's that showed some fortitude but I would have never guessed um that he would come you know turn into the player um that he's become yeah it's it's it's really amazing it's like and you and you and you were and I would guess

you weren't wrong at the time to play the guys ahead of him you played he just kept getting it was like yeah he just kept getting better more experience yeah it just got better you know I think going into kemba's uh that that summer he was considered like mid-major plus I remember some people had him and he was getting recruited by Memphis and St. John's and Cincinnati and then Yukon blew in a call. I'm sorry, North Carolina blew in a call and that kind of got Yukon's attention and he had always dreamed of going to Yukon and so Yukon moved pretty quickly after they heard that North Carolina had some interest and got him. That's one of the nastiest and most important crossovers in the history of college

basketball, right? For Gary McGee. Yeah, Gary McGee is on the receiving end of that. Yeah, and I say that because I don't go crazy about the crossovers and getting dunked on or whatever, unless, of course, you use it to hit the game-winning shot to win the Big East tournament, like in Madison Square Garden. Like, that's a little bit different. And it's kind of his signature move, right, where he has this unbelievable kind of stop and go with his right hand, and then he gets you leaning, and he likes that crossover come back to his left.

And he still, it's like, to this day gets dudes with it. That was, do you remember where you were when he had that move? I do. I remember watching it. I was at a little restaurant in New York, and I was watching him with a friend of mine, and I was blown away. I mean, it just, it was so much of what Kemma had become at Yukon was just, you know, a clutch player, and obviously led him to a national championship and kind of carried that momentum through. But I remember when I worked at Kowson, Pat Scarey was the head coach,

and he was an assistant on that pit coaching staff, and he likes to say that he tried to get him to pre-switch in the timeout. Say, hey, they're going to set this ball screen. let's try to get a better defender on Kemba. So let's put a different guy on their five-man, but they decided to go with McGee. And so he switched the ball screen, and Kemba obviously made him pay. Yeah, that's what's known as a bad switch.

It is fascinating how even college basketball has changed. Like now you would go with a smaller lineup, you would switch five. Like all of basketballs got switch, you know, switching five and you're subbing for defense, even though you're subbing smaller guys, you know? Right. I don't remember who set the ball screen.

Maybe Hilton Armstrong, I can't remember, but it was, it was, she was before Kimba. But whoever it was, they were saying, hey, let's put Gilbert Brown or whoever, you know, maybe it was Nassir Robinson, let's put him on the big. And so when they switch it, we got a better matchup, but it wasn't meant to be. Okay, so then you go from, you go from Kinnapiac to, was that, was Wagner next? Yep, well, I was at Arizona as a graduate assistant, then went to Wagner. Okay, wait, wait, wait, let's slow down, let's slow down. So you go, so you're East Coast dude, Gouchos, Quinepiac, Fairfield, and all of a sudden you're out in Tucson, Arizona.

And how did that come to be? How'd you come to get out there as grad assistant? Through the same sort of stuff, you know, with recruiting and just kind of getting to know the coaches out there. And that's just kind of, when they were at Xavier, one of the guys that we had coached with the Gouchos was Two Holloway. And so they recruited two to Xavier. And so I got to know the coaches.

And that kind of led to me going out to Tucson to be a GA. So you land out there. And what was that? What's that year like for you? That was eye-opening just being in the desert. I had been there once before. My mom took us to the LUGA dude ranch when we were kids. My mom and dad had just split up, and she took me and my older brother out there.

And so we went to Tucson for three or four days, and that's really all I knew. I was a big fan of Damon Stoddemeier and Khalid Reeves and those guys when I was growing up. And so I had an affinity for the school and the program, their teams, and Lut Olson. But I really didn't know much about it. So it was eye-oping. It was obviously different being from the East Coast and going out there. I think Tucson is an unbelievable college town and then obviously a great place for people, you know, in their 50s and 60s, and they're a little bit older. but when you're kind of in that in-between stage and age,

it was a little bit different to kind of get acclimated to it. But it was a good year. You know, it was the first year out there with the new program. And so we took some bumps along the way and trying to build it back. But I was only there for a year and then went to Wagner and got started with Coach Early. Let me ask you about Sean. Having been to Sean's practices, I feel like he runs as good a practice that I've ever seen run in terms of like

that was that was what camps were like when I was a kid. Like I've got been into, I've been to probably 15 Arizona's practices in my broadcasting career since he's been in Arizona and I've been to some Xavier ones as well. And, you know, you're talking about improving your angle and feeding the post and, you know, passing and catching and pivoting and just the attention to detail.

Like, I mean, you talk about having an inventive offensive mind. I do think that that's probably the thing that he lacks or maybe the desire to be a little bit more free offensively. But he's almost from my perspective. And again, I'm not there every day like you were for a year. He's almost a clinician in terms of how he runs practice. What's your takeaway from Sean Miller, a guy you work for for a year?

Yeah, that was the word I was going to use. I mean, he's really clinical. I mean, he has an unbelievable appreciation for the fundamentals. I think obviously that comes from his dad and his experience as a coach at Black. Hawk and how they kind of raised both of his boys to teach the game. And so, you know, he really is focused in the details and was passionate and committed and had great energy every single day and demanded excellence from those guys on the practice floor and got the most out of them for sure.

So you move back to Staten Island, right? Like you're hitting all the garden spots here. You're going to Tucson as a grad assistant, as you said. You're not a college kid. But you're also not an adult, and so you're kind of in that. Right. And then you go join Danny in Staten Island at Wagner. How'd that come to be?

Just kind of had gotten to know Danny through the high school basketball scene in New York, New Jersey, Tri-State area. He was the coach at St. Benedict up until he accepted the job at Wagner. So we kind of crossed past a little bit, and he would come watch the Marto Samuels and some of the different guys, Corey Stokes, guys that he had at St. Benedict, he would watch them on the AAU circuit or, you know, different high school events. And so we kind of got to know each other a little bit through that connection. And, you know, I remember going out there and interviewing for the job and meeting Bobby for the first time and spending some time with Danny. And I would never been to Staten Island, I don't think, before I stepped foot on Wagner's campus. So it was different, but I was, you know, obviously incredibly excited to work for somebody that, you know, the whole country, I think, really,

respected as a high school coach, kind of in his first entree, into being a college coach. And I think I was 24 years old to be a Division I assistant coach and recruit and be on the floor was pretty exciting. How good was your team? We scrapped. You know, I don't think we were a great team. Mike Dean was the coach previously, and he had some really good success. But they had fallen on hard times, I guess, a year or two before Coach Hurley got there.

I think we went 13 games maybe in our first year. But we were really, you know, we battled. We were tough. We had a really competitive group, and I think we were probably about as good as we could be. But moving forward, I mean, quickly in year two, I think, Danny won 25 games and beat Pitt that year and really set himself up for a great run since then. I got a great Dino, a couple good Dino stories of my D. Because so I almost went to play for my Dene. I visited Marquette when he was there.

Really? Oh, man, he's amazing. So he wrote me this. four-page love letter, really, after we had a home visit. And, like, it was, I got it saved somewhere. It was, it was the most passionate plea I've ever received from a coach to come play for me. He, he had a, he had a small guard at Siena, Benerman, Deerius Bavreier. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Something like that. And then there was a little guard at Marquette that he wanted me to play alongside. He wanted him to move him to the. two. And so he sent me play upon play. Here's the set we're going to run, this and that. So I visit and shit, I'll have to think of

Crawford. Was Chris Crawford? Right? They called him Woody. He played in the NBA. He was one of my two hosts when I was at Marquette. So I go up into their apartment and there's like beer cans in like a square on the table.

and, and I was like, what's up with the empty beer cans? They're like, big boy, we're building a pyramid this weekend. And you're going to help. And, of course, you know, I dropped the, you know, as Jews, we have bad, we have bad experiences in terms of pyramid building. Anyway, so they were like, oh, you're in, you're in. So, I mean, like, all we did was drink and hang out. And, like, I didn't know what kind of guy he was.

So we go to, we go to a baseball game. This is before Miller Park. It's an old county stadium, part of my visit. And I roll up and we're playing quarters with the coaches. I was 21 because I was my transfer year. I'm 21 playing quarters with the coaches like in a booth, in a box or whatever, before the game. And then before I leave, he's like, how's that pyramid coming? So it was, what's his name, Piper?

Oh, shoot. So Crawford and Piper were my host when I was there. So I end up, you know, he writes me this four-page love letter. I make a ton of friends. I love it. And I really want to go to Marquette because, mostly because they played Notre Dame every year. And I wanted to.

And even though Notre Dame did not do wrong by me, I still wanted to kick their ass. And then I was like, you know, he plays slow. He does have a little bit of a crazy side. And I don't really want to go to a Catholic school, even though it's Milwaukee where I was born. Like, I wanted to go to a college town. Anyway, so I call him.

And I was like, Dino, I got some bad news, man. I'm going to go and I think I'm going to go to Oklahoma State. Ah, all right. Well, listen, listen, I'll tell you what, you know, we got camp. So you want to come work camp. Come work camp. Wow. How about that?

I went and worked camp after going to, committing to Oklahoma State. That summer, I went to camp at Marquette as a counselor. That's amazing. Amazing. Amazing. That's amazing. Times have changed. Yeah.

No, I'm just an unbelievable dude that I consider. friend. Okay, so you're at Wagner. And then when Danny decided to go to Rhode Island, did he did you guys, I don't know how it works in the staff. Do he like, hey man, I'm thinking about Rhode Island, you know. Was there any conversations

had about him leaving? Well, I had left. So I left Wagner and went to Towson. And Danny was at Wagner for one more year when I was at Towson. And so he and I were talking about him leaving Wagner and going to Rhode Island. And he went up there a couple of times.

It was kind of a little bit of an extended courtship. But, yeah, he was, you know, really torn. He's a really loyal guy, and I think it was hard for him to leave Wagner. I think he felt like they were just kind of starting to hit their stride. But at the same time, it was an opportunity that he couldn't pass up. So after two years at Cowson, we turned something around there as well. We got there, and our first year, we were 1 in 31. We were the worst team in the history of college basketball.

What was that like? It was unbearable. But at the same time, I think we felt like we were deficient from a talent perspective, unfortunately. And so we were going to try to make the most of it. And our kids were tough and competitive and brought it every single day in practice, and I think played to the best of their capabilities. But we just weren't there. And I recruited a kid named Jarrell Benaman who transferred from Georgetown.

And so he sat out that year, and we had another transfer of Mike Burwell, who was from South Florida. and so they were kind of like our constant source of encouragement throughout the year, you know, the workouts and before the games and watching them in practice. I remember we played George Mason, and they had a kid named Ryan Pearson, who was a CA player of the year, and I remember saying to Pat, I said, Jarrell's better than him. And like at that moment, we said, like, okay, we're going to be okay, you know, because next year we're going to have him out on the floor.

And so he was the two-time CAA player of the year, and we set an NCAA record, I think, from the biggest one, you know, single-season turnaround. We went from 1 in 31 to 18 and 13 to next year. Okay, what is that like to go to work every day when you won one game? Like I remember when I was there. Really tough. Yeah.

Really tough. I remember, you know, I had like a family member, two family members that came to our game, the one game that we won against UNC Wilmington and like immediately broke down and started crying in the stands. Like there was some doubt that it was ever going to happen for us. But it was hard. It was a real challenge. I thought, you know, for the most part, once we got into the CAA play, We were pretty competitive.

And so as much as we were losing, it still felt a little bit better to be right there and to be in games and feel like you had an opportunity. Some of the non-conference games that we had just completely got out of hand. And I think that was probably a little bit more difficult to deal with. But like I said, I think we were just trying to stay positive. I talked to, you know, friends of mine throughout the year, instead of in similar situations. And I think, you know, you just try to get them better in practice and coach as hard as you can,

but then obviously have a view for the future. Like you just can't imagine because, you know, you're at the Final Four. Everybody goes like, hey, great year coach, great year coach. Yeah, no one said that. Yeah, like, wait, wait, you were, your Towson? Yes. Yeah. You guys were.

Yeah, I think I avoided the Final Four for a couple years because I just didn't want to have that interaction. You mentioned Jerell Beneman who became an NBA player. Yeah, briefly. Yeah. But, I mean, like, did, again, there's another one. Did you know when you took a, I mean, because I think taking transfers and obviously now you have another grad transfer coming here at Louisville one, I like fresh a great deal.

And, of course, you had several transfers last year. Obviously, your point guard was a transfer from Sanford. But I'm just wondering in terms of how much you knew about him, like the process of taking a transfer because they don't all work out. They're not all Jurel Beneman stories, right? A lot of guys become two, three-time or they go to NIA or they burn out or they become just a pain the ass because they don't, they transfer down. down a level and they think they're going to come in and dominate and they don't. How did you get that one right? Yeah, you know, I had coach Nate Lubick who played at Georgetown when he was in high school,

and so I asked him a couple times about Jarrell when I first got the job at Towson, and he was like, he's talented, but, you know, I don't know how much he likes it. He didn't really get along with Coach Thompson, and, you know, I don't know how it's going to work out. Kenya Hunter, who was an assistant at Yukon, who was at Georgetown at the time, was like, hey, I think there's something there. you know, it was a little bit of a weird recruitment, I think, like Old Dominion and James Madison were like at two schools that were really trying to get him out of high school. He was from Fort Keir County, like way out in the middle of nowhere in Warrington, Virginia,

and Georgetown came in late and got him, and he just didn't play a whole lot in his first two years. And we actually tried to get a kid named Jordan Latham, who was transferring from Xavier, and he ended up going to Loyola instead. And so, you know, once that kind of went by the wayside, we were able to, you know, spend a little bit more time and commit some more energy to Jarrell because his process was taken a little bit longer. And he kind of went back and forth and vacillated between what he wanted to do, but ultimately we got him. And I think from the first day of practice, we're like this guy is way better than anything we have. And so we didn't know at the time. He really didn't

have stats to draw from. But once we started practicing, we know it was pretty clear that he was as good as anybody in the league. At any point in time during that one in 31 year, did your dad call and go, like, What are you doing? Like, let's, like this is... He came to one game, so we played Oregon State in a two-for-one. And I think the idea was to try to get President Obama to come to the game in Towson. And so he did.

And so President Obama and his wife and his two kids came to the game against Towson. My dad, just by coincidence, came to the same game. And that was still around the time. You know, you said how your grandfather was like, I'm not really sure why your dad was doing this. My dad was kind of still in that frame of mind for a long time, I think almost until the time I went to Xavier, I think he just didn't really understand what this was all about.

But, yeah, I think he was like, are you sure? You know, you're really comfortable doing this, and you want to go through this. But, you know, it was fun. We ended up kind of turning that thing around, and the following year we went out to Oregon State. Again, I know this is a little bit of a touchy subject. We went out to Oregon State and beat them,

and so that was good for us moving forward. No, that was before my brother was there, right? I know it was. I know it was. I don't care. I mean, like, you know, winning games, lose games. Is that an effect? I don't want to Oregon State.

I don't offend any people. No, you're like, and I'm not offended that you're offended that I said New York City doesn't play a bunch, doesn't produce them nearly as many players. I know we talked about that. We talked about that offline. I know there was some criticism there, but. No, we can get into it. So, look, here's my point.

And, and again, you're from the area. You coached. Like, there's no better resource for it than you. And I understand a lot of guys go to prep school and whatever. My point has been like, look, like I grew up with a dad who would tell me that New York City is the greatest thing ever, the basketball mecca. And I have no doubt that Madison Square, playing a game of Madison Square Garden, a big game is different, is special, better probably maybe than any other place on earth. Even the great on-campus places, the big ones, and the Big Ten tournament last year felt like it. The Big East tournament always feels like it.

When they had the NCAA tournament, it feels like it. I think it's awesome. But they're just, whether it's because of the cost of living, you know, in the area, or whether it's just not producing, like, look, and I hate to be the look around the NBA guy, but, like, dude, there's Kemba and, and, like, who else? Like, are you going to claim Kyrie? Okay. Whereas, whereas, like, Southern California, just, you know, is kind of pooping out players.

And now some families are moving here for the, you know, the LeBrons for the prep schools and whatever, and the Canyon Martin's, you know, stars are living here. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments, that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't

feel like you don't feel on. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladecki. The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything.

Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. Podcasts for wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. It's different, but it does, it sure has shifted from when I was a kid, I remember when I was in Vegas, the Gauchos had a team that had Felipe Lopez, Stefan Marbury, and God Sham God. And I'm sure they were, I'm not sure if Charlton Clark was on that team or was on the Riverside Church team, whatever. But like, you always felt like when you lined up against those teams, they were just going to throw a two.

12 D1 guys out there. And while they may, there may still be 12 D1 guys on the Rens, the gauchos, the whatever's, doesn't feel like they're, impactful. Like look at the top 100 college basketball players, top hundred NBA players.

And it sure feels like it's the idea of, oh, St. John's a great job. All I got to do is keep, you know, get some New York kids home. Like, yeah, they only had one New York kid on this last team. Right, right. Well, I mean, I think they just, you know,

populations of all these different states around the country have grown so dramatically in recent years and basketball as a sport is really taken off. And so again, I think a lot of times, you know, people are expecting, you know, New York to produce players within a 12 or 14-mile radius that's going to, you know, equate to these whole state of California or all of Southern California or all of Texas where basketball has become huge recently. And so it's tough, but I think it's somewhat cyclical, you know, and it kind of comes in waves. And I'm hopeful that New York New Jersey can start to produce some really good players. New Jersey's had some phenomenal players recently. Yeah. And I think New York isn't far behind. So, so am I completely off in saying,

at least recently, and, look, there should have been more context to the tweet or whatever. I'm not really exactly sure why Stefan Marbury chooses to put my, conflate my career into the discussion about it. But whatever, is it, is it totally wrong to say it hasn't, it hasn't been what it was in terms of depth of producing? great collegiate and professional talent in the last 10 years? I think in terms of depth, I think that's probably fair. But I think, you know, when we talked about it,

your point was a little bit more driven towards like St. John's and feeling like, well, why is it that you have to recruit, you know, strictly New York City players to be successful? And I think New York and, you know, throughout the Tri-Stay area has some great players and guys that can really help any program win big. But to your point, you know, Shammari is really the only guy on the roster from New York

and St. John's had really good talent this year. So I think people that have an opinion of Mike Anderson, I think that can be short-sighted because, you know, if he can recruit good players, whether they're from Arkansas or Texas or Florida or anywhere in between, he's going to be able to put a product on the floor that can be successful. But it is hard. And, you know, Louisville, obviously, is a national job. Xavier, you guys recruited nationally.

But generally, guys want to play closer to home, right? Like it's, you know, like it, it just, and so I do think it makes it harder when you're in New York and you're trying to create a buzz. And people just assume like, well, like New York kids don't want to stay there. Obviously, they don't have the built-in advantages they used to have with not having dorms and they could give kids, you know, money to live at home. Like they used to. But it makes it a much more difficult job when there aren't players in the area that you can always count on to want to play for you. It's tough for sure, but I do think that you have something that, you know, nobody else has, which is New York. And it's why, you know, Justin Simon from Kinecula and guys from all over the country were excited about coming to play at St. John.

You know, I think the opportunity, like you said, to play out the garden, play on that stage. To play in a story program is going to be something that can carry them, whether they're, you know, signing a bunch of kids out in New York or not, you know. And I don't know what their strategy is going to be moving forward, but I'm sure they'll end up with a good player. Imagine fighting climate change every time you buy groceries or pizza. Now you can. With the Aspiration Zero credit card, you can reduce your carbon footprint by making the same purchases you always make. Aspiration Zero plants one tree every time you make a purchase. Or plant two trees when you choose to round all your purchases up to the nearest dollar.

Track your progress in the app and earn 1% cash back each month you reach Carbon Zero. For a limited time, earn a $300 bonus when you open an account at Aspiration.com and spend $3,000 in the first 90 days. Join the community that helps you fight climate change with every purchase. Aspiration Zero, one card, zero carbon footprint. The Aspiration Zero MasterC is issued by Beneficial State Bank pursuant to license by MasterC International Incorporated. Beneficial State Bank member FDIC 2021. Terms and conditions apply. Visit Aspiration.com slash zero for more information.

Hey, singles, do you feel like a tourist in your own town? Too busy to enjoy all your city has to offer? Events and Adventures organizes up to 30 unique get-togethers around town each and every month. We do all the work, so you have all the fun. On your schedule, visit places you didn't even know were places, and get to know the fellow singles you didn't know you needed in your life. Fall in love with your hometown all over again by joining events and adventures. Get started by visiting events and adventures.com today. That's events and adventures.com. This is the sound of your single life. This is the sound of your single life with events and adventures.

This is the sound of your single life with events and adventures. Our members live a single life they love with exciting events every night. Events and Adventures provides an easy, relaxed environment to meet new people and find that someone special. Start enjoying the sounds of your new single life. Get started today at events and adventures.com. Career builder is made for people who have that thing. You know, those superpowers that make you good at your job, the skills you bring to work. And CareerBuilder knows those skills make you right for other jobs too.

Higher paying jobs with benefits. Jobs you never thought of trying. Are you a people person? Work from home as a customer service rep. Are you organized and like driving? Become a delivery driver. You have the skills it takes and CareerBuilder.com has the jobs to get you hired fast. Visit careerbuilder.com. I want to fast forward along to Xavier because what you guys built at Xavier was really, really amazing. But Xavier was a little bit, you know, you had your relationship with Sean, but it felt a little bit out of kind of the family a little bit. How did you come to be on staff at Xavier?

You know, just through my connection with Coach Mack, one of the, you know, he was one of the assistants, obviously, when Coach Miller was there. And so we got to know each other through that period of time. and Mario Mercurio, who's the director of operations at Xavier, he and I had been friendly for a long time. And so that was kind of my connection. And so, you know, coming from Rhode Island, we had had some success.

We went to the NIT and won 23, 23 games in our second year there. But I was excited about the opportunity. Xavier has been a program that I'd always really appreciated and looked to as, you know, as one of the premier programs on the country. And so I was really excited to join, you know, joint coach McInc Cincinnati. Why couldn't you guys beat Villanova? Especially at Villanova.

I couldn't anybody beat Villanova? No, no, but I mean, but you guys beat him at home. You guys beat, but like almost, and I know one year you had an injury at Nova as well. But it was- Yeah, it went down early in that game. But, you know, it was like a house of horrors for it, that DuPont Pavilion. I mean, I felt like every single shot that was attempted by the Wildcats went in. I mean, Arch was pulling from 35 feet and drilling him,

and Chris Jenkins was getting us up in the air on a shot fake and making free free throws and Josh Hart was like the ultimate warrior out there. So it was it was tough for us. We, you know, they spread us out and they had such great shooters and they play with such great confidence. And, you know, I think it took us a little bit of time to try to get a feel for their ability to land in the lane and shot fake and pivot. And that was something that a lot of teams weren't doing at that time. And so their ball reversal pace, the way that they attack closeouts, the way that, you know, coach Wright always talks about catching to shoot. You know, you're never more open than when you first catch the ball.

And so our closeouts were late and they would get hot and they would go on runs. And then their versatility defensively. You know, we didn't have, with the exception to Edmund, we didn't have super great athletes off the dribble guys that could really break you down and JP and Trayvon. And so with them being able to switch one through four when Ocifu was there and then one through five when Pascal came in the game, really made it hard for us to generate offense. if there was if there's one thing that makes chris max successful what what is it

i think he goes with his gut um you know it's not he really has a trust in his uh you know what what he sees out there uh you know coming out of time out ATOs um different set plays within the flow of action underneath that of bounds sets uh i really think he's got a good mind for how to trick you on offense and uh he's not afraid of the result you know He's not afraid of a miss shot or a turnover. I think he's willing to take the risk to execute something on the offensive end. And I think that makes us hard to guard and hard to prepare for. And then he is the same guy every single day in practice, which is a hard thing to do.

You know, that's one thing that if I'm ever a head coach, I'm going to really try to emulate, is to be consistent in my effort and my energy every single day because that's hard. There's a lot of practices. There's a lot of good and bad results that you have to deal with. but he always presents a really consistent image to his team. How hard was that for you to leave, Xavier? I mean, I know, you know, coaches say it all the time. That, man, you know, it was really a hard place to leave or whatever.

And I know it was hard for Mack because it's a place that he played. It's a place that gave him a chance. But I felt like for you it was really kind of especially hard because you had a young family, you know, your relationship with the guys that stayed. What was, what's that like for you when you're like, yeah, I could, but I just, I like it here. I could like it somewhere else, but I like you. What was that like for you? Really hard, really hard.

I don't think anyone realizes how difficult that was. I love Xavier. I love Xavier to this day. I watch all their games and root for them. And it was a great place. That was my, you know, up until coming here, it was by far the greatest experience that I had had in coaching and really have a great relationship with Travis and all the, all the guys over there at school and the players on the team. team. And so that was really, really hard for me. But ultimately, I think I just felt a loyalty to my boss, you know, is this the person that hired me and gave me an opportunity to come to Xavier in

the first place. So, you know, again, if he believes in Louisville and in making this change and going to go into someplace new, then I'm going to be excited about joining him. And that's, that's ultimately what made the decision for me. And then, you know, since coming here, it's been great. You know, it's been a really cool experience to be at a new place and to, you know, play in the ACC and challenge yourself against the best teams in the country on the recruiting trail and on the floor. And I think we're really starting to trend in a good direction. No question.

I mean, you had, you know, I know some of the recruiting rankings will change with recent commits, but number one class for a long time. Maybe it becomes a top five class, whatever. That's starting off with a bang. What did you personally learn from the Duke game? Who, that Zion Williamson is a monster. I think it was hard for us. You know, it just, it really, I don't think that it had as much kind of carryover as people thought

or kind of talked about in the media, even around our program. I think there was kind of that thought that it really stayed with us moving forward. I don't know how true that is. I think guys kind of play in the moment and aren't really thinking about past games. But, you know, it just made us realize how hard it is to close out a really good team. I think we have to continue to be, you know, a better team against pressure. That was something that bothered us this year. It's probably something that we're going to have to make sure that we do a really good job of addressing next year.

But, I mean, again, we're up 23 points with nine minutes to go. I think we're up 18 or 19 points with six minutes to go. And they kind of scrapped what they did. You know, they went to a really extended two three where they were way out on the floor and they were picking up in the full court off made baskets. And that's not Duke. I think when you play Syracuse or you play a team that mixes in zone, even if it's only a handful of possessions, you practice that for three or four days going into the game or two or three days at least.

And for us, we didn't talk at all about zone. And so I think probably always having that in your back pocket and having an understanding that you probably need a couple segments of practice, even if there's an unlikely scenario that presents itself just to be ready for that. I think that was kind of jarring. And then, you know, with all due respect, I think we kind of in a position throughout the year, times where we felt like we had one real true ball handler. Yeah. And so trying to have as many guys on the floor that can deal with pressure is something

that we're going to try to address moving forward. Yeah, those are all kind of great lessons. It's interesting, though, with your AAU background. My dad, you know, having transitioned from high school to college then to AAU, he would always say like, hey, I don't care what you do. You can't break a press. You can't break pressure. Then you're not going to be able to win a game.

And when he was coaching an AAU basketball. ball. And I just, I think that's something you kind of take with you. Like, you know, he was, his big thing is, is always, and he wasn't a great offensive tactician, you know, like he like won four. But what he did was, he always believed in, all right, whatever we put in, you got to have pressure counters. If they pressure, can we beat it off, is there space to beat it off the dribble? Is there a way to beat it off the pass, you know, and then, honestly, he would spend 10, 15 minutes in any practice. And, you know, like, A, you know, you have no practice. He'd spend 10 or 15 minutes.

on teaching guys how to break out of a double team, how to break out of a double team, make the third guy commit and pass the basketball. It's like a big, and it is interesting that how, even though AAU basketball is a messed, I'm like, I'm coaching now from like fourth grade,

Tupper until high school kids, and it's all, you know, they all like press into a zone or into bad, you know, kind of really pressure-oriented man-to-man with not great rotations.

It's the same thing. You know, you got it, I am surprised that some kids, even at your level, grand, you kind of inherited it and fixed on the fly, that they're not more natural ball handlers against pressure.

But that's kind of something you learn as you go. Okay, I want to, you've obviously had some opportunities to go elsewhere and be a head coach. What is that, what's it like for you? You know, I'd like to, you're kind of in a space where you can be a little bit choosy, but you do at some point want to try your own thing. This has been kind of your life's mission, right? If not being an NBA general manager, what's going to be the right? thing for you. Yeah, I don't know. I was talking to Tom Moore a couple weeks ago,

kind of prior to the Final Four and some of this job stuff popping up, and he said to me, like, you'll really feel it. He said, you'll feel when the time is right, and you'll feel it in your gut. And so there were, you know, a couple situations that presented themselves a couple weeks back, and I just didn't really feel it. You know, I felt like I owe it to Coach Mack to kind of see this thing through and to the guys that we recruited to that are coming in, to the returning players that, you know, we're not satisfied with going to the NCAA tournament and going to the first round. You know, that's not the goal for us at all. And so there's just more to accomplish here. And I think for me individually, you know, always trying to strive to better

myself and become, you know, a better coach to be a more complete coach. And so, you know, when that opportunity presents itself, if it does, hopefully, you know, I'm ready for it. How do you, how do you build, what's the initial process like, a building a relationship with a recruit. Something that that people don't talk a lot about. But you don't, you sign guys now because they trust you, right? Because the relationship they built,

things that you tell them, they believe them to be true. What's that, what's that initial? Because right now we're in kind of open period and obviously you guys have, I think guys are pretty much set for next year. So you're starting, you're looking at rising seniors and juniors and you're still getting

to know kids that you're recruiting. What's the initial process? like. You know, I try to just build a relationship for the most part that doesn't talk basketball a whole lot. You know, I think at the very beginning stages, I want to try to educate the player and his family as best I can on who we are, you know, kind of who Coach Mack is, having a baseline understanding of our program and kind of stylistically how we want to play, you know, familiarizing them with the area or the league. But once you kind of get through that first stage and you start to get a little bit of back and forth and build some connectivity.

For me, you know, I really try to move it away from basketball, you know, and I'll talk maybe about elements of their game that I think they could work on or improve or things that I think they're doing a really good job with. But more and more, I feel like kids are so inundated with calls and text and emails and Instagram and all kinds of different, you know, medias that people are trying to connect with them on and recruit them on or do interviews with them. And so the more that our conversations and our connection,

can be just, you know, person to person as opposed to coach to player all the time. I think that that helps to kind of build that trust and that belief that, like you said, when it comes down to it, they can, they can, you know, put their faith in their families can put their faith in our coaching staff and understand that we're genuine and that, you know, what we say is what they can expect on the receiving end when they get to school. How do you handle what would be some people who don't know you might have a perception? I joke with you to start about, you know, sitting in the front row and good seats for games, whatever. But as you point out, like, you're not a guy that got appointed to some position that you didn't earn, right?

Like, you go be a GA, you go at Towsing, you're one in freaking 31, taking asswopens, you know, and have to after-bill. Right? Like, look, Wagner is not a, when Danny took over Wagner, that was not a, that's super glamorous. No, even Rhode Island when you guys got there was not, you know, he turned that, that thing around. how do you handle it when people they're always going to be people that go like that's Bill Murray Bill Murray's son

like how do you what's your approach when when you get that vibe or people actually verbalize it I don't know I just think I've kind of become accustomed to that I think that's something that you grow up with when you're a kid

you know well before you're in the professional world I think people you know paint you with a certain brush or characterize you a certain way and I think you just have to have a thick skin and not really be concerned with that. You know, that's not something that factors into how I do my job. That's not

factor. That doesn't, that's not something that factors into any of my conversations or relationships. I mean, people, you know, the kids that I've recruited in some cases find out when they're in school that that's who my dad is. You know, their parents find out two years later that that's what my dad is. You know, it's like, I have great respect for them. I love them, but like that got nothing to do with basketball. It's got nothing to do with being assistant coach at Louisville. It's got nothing to do with trying to win games. And so it really doesn't, it doesn't factor into anything that I do on a daily basis. And so people that feel that way, I just, I guess I would question, like, what influence do you

think he has? Like, he's in Charleston, South Carolina, playing golf every day. Or he's traveling the world with a classical music band, you know, with the cello and the piano. Like, he's not making phone calls to athletic directors saying you need to hire this guy. So it's just, again, I think that that's kind of the thought maybe from afar, but the reality is a much different thing. How do you, how are you a balanced parent with the job that you have? That's one that I always want. Like you're a, you mentioned Tim O'Toole getting up early.

You're a dude who is always available. You're an incredibly hard worker. And yet you do have a family. And of course, this has been your first year. You've been a year now in Louisville. How have you found, do you have the proper balance in your life? I try to. You know, I think Coach Mack really helps in that.

you know, he really believes in having a balance, and his family's always around, and he's constantly encouraging us to take a three-day weekend or, you know, spend some time with our family or get away. And so those sort of things, that's welcoming, you know, because that's not always the case that hasn't always been my experience. And so, you know, having a coach that makes you feel like that's okay and that understands that the balance is paramount in terms of everybody being happy. That really has gone a long way.

And so I think I'm doing a pretty good job of balancing it. You know, obviously I love, you know, spending time with my son as much as I can and, you know, getting an opportunity to take him to a baseball game or hang out with him at night or, you know, hopefully I'm looking forward to the time when he gets a little bit older where we can, you know, maybe go on a road trip recruiting or something like that together. Yeah, it's awesome. When I took mine, you know, the Final Four this year and just he's been before,

but it's the first year where it kind of clicked in everything. And it was really kind of an amazing, really amazing experience. All right, I can't let you go, and I know you do have to go, without asking you about Jordan. To these people who aren't old enough to remember or seem to have forgotten, I just, first of all, I actually think he'd be better in this era than he was even in that era, especially early in his career, because now you don't have two guys at the rim to knock you on your ass, like the pistons did.

Like you open up the floor for Michael Jordan, who was strong, athletic, and an unbelievable finisher. But look, there are people that are going to go, hey, it's LeBron. When you say you can never talk enough about Jordan, what about Jordan sticks? No, seriously, what about Jordan sticks out to you? Savage competitor, like totally, totally immersed in the idea of winning at all costs. As a basketball player, I just think that he's unparallowing. in terms of his desire, his commitment level. There's just, there's something that he possessed that I don't think I've ever seen.

I guess Kobe Bryant probably got close to that. But he just, I had a blessed opportunity to be around him a little bit. My godfather is Amar Shah, who's his best friend. And so I've just seen him in all different kinds of scenarios, and he just wants to win so badly at everything. And so I think that that, you know, obviously in addition to his phenomenal talent and athleticism is what separates it for me. And I think, you know, people that point to statistics,

I just feel like statistics are becoming less and less relevant in terms of making that argument. You know, I mean, with all due respect, you got a guy like Russ who has, for three consecutive years, average a triple double. You know, if we want to base everything on statistics, then he's the best player in the NBA, right? I mean, he's doing things that no one's ever done

if you just want to look at points, rebounds, and assists, which I think a lot of people point to. It's like, hey, LeBron averages more rebounds or LeBron. I think LeBron is a big. better passer, for sure. And obviously he's become a more kind of effective three-point shooter because that's something that the game called for. I think if it was a different time, then MJ would have probably worked on that a lot, and it would have been added to the element, you know, the elements of his game pretty quickly. But for me, it's just, it's that edge,

it's that competitiveness, it's that desire that he carried himself with and that he insisted on from his teammates. I think you summed up really, really well. Hey man, listen, I know you have a busy work schedule. I really appreciate you join us and look forward to seeing you on the recruiting trail. Thanks so much for joining us on All Ball. Thanks, man. I appreciate it, Doug. All right, that's it for All Ball. If you have any questions, comments, draft questions, NBA, playoffs, questions.

Feel free. Hit me up on Twitter at Gottlieb Show. You can use the hashtag All Ball. Make sure you listen to my daily radio show. It's 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 12 to 3 Pacific on the IHeart Radio app. Follow me on Twitter at Gottlieb Show. Thanks so much for listening. This is All Ball. When you're ready to place a bet on today's games,

do it with the most trusted name in online sports betting, Bet Rivers Sportsbook, now legal in several states and growing. BetRiver's Sportsbook delivers a unique sports betting experience featuring live streaming sports, in-game wagering, fast authorizations on most withdrawals and gold standard customer service. Go to betrivers.com, see for yourself. Must be 21, and be present in Colorado, Illinois, Indiana,

and Pennsylvania to play. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. Get right to the romance and find the way to wow this valentines with 1-800flowers.com. From classic roses and bouquets to decadent chocolate-covered berries,

gourmet treats, and more. Surprise your valentine with 1-800flowers.com. Right now, get the 18-stem enchanted rose medley for $39-99 or upgrade to 24 red roses for $10 more. Go to 1-800flowers.com slash tune in. That's 1800 flowers.com slash tune in.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the

real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on.

A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire, world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.