The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - Westbrook/Harden fit; Kawhi decision coverage; Lakers' roster chemistry; Guests: Analyst David Thorpe

Episode Date: July 13, 2019

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.  This week, Gottlieb looks at the latest NBA bombshell with Russell Westbrook getting shipped to the Rockets, why he likes the deal for Houston, why so many in the media were burned by reporting on the Kawhi Leonard free agency decision. Doug also talks Westbrook/Rockets and free agency with TrueHoops.com Analyst David Thorpe, and discusses TBT (The Basketball Tournament) summer hoops jam, and his modified Elam Ending scoring system. Download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts: Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my Gen X squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate Midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sacks, Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes? They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with the Anna Maria Riva on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Carebuilder.com. Hey, what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is the all-ball podcast. All-Basketball. All the time. I think next week we'll talk some recruiting. Next week, we have a great special

guest for you. We'll get him on. We got a lot of things I want to get to. Let me start with the news of the moment. Russell Westbrook has been traded for Chris Paul and like for first round draft picture the rights to switch to blah blah blah blah right like you know if you're listening to this podcast I'm guessing you know the details

so of the questions that are asked most of me I would say most of you like hey what do you think of the deal okay I love Chris Paul I tell people this all the time if I could play like any guy in the NBA Chris Paul in his prime, more so than Steve Nash in his prime. Steve Nash was a better creative passer, probably a better shooter.

He had a wilder array finishing shots. And Steve Nash, I thought, went left better. Chris Paul, he goes right and he's going right, and there's nothing he could do. But Chris Paul has a defensive bulldog mentality that Steve Nash just didn't have. and I felt like I also feel like he was one of those guys where he was when he got to his spot

he was going to make it whereas Nash it did feel like shooting he was a great shooter but he kind of did it last resort and maybe some of it was the error in basketball I don't know I love Nash but the defensive end you take Chris Paul so I'd probably take Chris Paul he was an unbelievable pick and roll player

David David West should send him a portion of his check. Any check he ever got, he should send it to Chris Paul because that's the dude he got him paid. That said, like, look, man, they weren't running, when they have James Harden the game,

unless they had Clint Capella set in a ball screen, they're not really running screen roll. And when they did, a lot of times they wouldn't run it for you. It was a weird fit, right? You have two dominant ball handlers. You have a team that values kind of analytics, drive, and kick, and you have a guy that's a pick and roll point guard

that's the second best player in the team. Then you add in this ridiculous four-year contract with all the money that they promised him but when they traded him and then it became obvious that they shouldn't give it to him. They thought about not giving to him. Then they did give it to him. And they're left with a terrible contract

for a really good player who's not the player he used to be. And they trade him for Russell Westbrook. Now, Westbrook is not the guy he used to be. He's had a couple of knee surgeries. He's gone through a year where he had the yips at the, free throw line, takes bad shots, has some bad habits.

He doesn't play nearly as hard defensively as his reputation would tell you, but when he choose to do so, he's still a complete freak of nature defensively, athletically, and aggressiveness. But I don't understand how this ends up with a championship. In addition to Russell's inefficiency, and I'll point out that in fairness, Russell Westbrook played great basketball and try to facilitate the growth of Paul George's career for a good portion of the season. If he simply does that with James Harden, it'll be fine. But when it gets the nut cut in time, Russell Westbrook's a high-volume, low-percentage shooter,

Russell tries to do things himself, and James Hardin doesn't play any defense. I know, yeah, by the way, oh, yeah, by the way, you don't really have, Mike Dan Tony doesn't have the same staff he had last year, he doesn't have the backing of the ownership. And so, if Russell Westbrook challenges him, whose side does Tillman for Team? to actually have. The same thing can be said from James Harden. If those guys don't get in line, and maybe it's because that's why they signed Tyson-Channler,

then Mike Dan Tony's the one to go because he has no backing from ownership, no matter how well they've done the past couple of years. So I don't love it, but do I like it? Yes, because Russell Westbrook at this point in his career is, in fact, better than Chris Paul. And I would like to see how Russell Westbrook plays when there's five guys outside the three-point line. As for Oklahoma City, look, the issue is what it's always been. They don't believe they can get, they almost know they can't get a high quality free agent. I like, Blake Griffin's from Oklahoma City.

He won't play there. Trey Young's from Norman, which is just south of Oklahoma City. I would doubt he'd want to play there. Maybe he would. He's a little different. I mean, he could be an absolute God if he did. So in order to be successful, you have to draft your guys or trade for guys. But man, they bailed on this.

Paul George and Russell Westbrook experiment really, really, really quick. And I would guess that Sam Presti saw something that goes like, this is not getting better. We can't add the right pieces. Let's just get out of it. I think the most fascinating thing

about the reunion of James Hardin and Russell Westbrook was I had some friends in the front office of the Oklahoma City Thunder back when these two were together. And they would say, hey, look, we we think that we don't think Russell Westbrook's a point card

and he's at his absolute best when James Harden is the point and so you know I think it's going to be fascinating to see how he handles it how how they handle

if they can recapture some of that glory of the past if they can do that if Russell can play off the basketball some that's where he's at his best to get back to being a cutter and a slasher

and a catcher and a finisher. One of the things that's always, and my dad used to say this to people all the time is we have a tendency to look sometimes at assist totals and a guy who can pass

and say, well, he's a great passer. And we don't realize that some guys are better passers, Drew Holiday, for example, another Southern California guy. Drew Holiday, I saw him play at Campbell Hall High School

and he was playing playing in the tournament of champions at Ocean View, and I sat with Ben Halland, and he'd already committed to play for Ben. And Ben's like, you know, he wants to be a point, but he's not really a point. I watched to play, and I was like, man, this is one of my favorite high school players I've ever seen play.

He was so smooth, so effortless, played both ends of the floor, got into the other teams, the best player. They played actually Santa Margarita, who had Michael Thompson and Clay Thompson, and Drew was just the best player on the court. It was not close. and I just thought like, wow, this is a great player,

but he was exactly what my father had long thought or what Ben Howland thought, which is a great passing too, but not a point card. That's what Russell Westbrook is. James Hardin's actually more of a point card. Now, he's had to become more of a score, some out of necessity and some just out of skill. But I do think there's part of this that works.

The problem with it will be, that Russell can be really hard to coach can be kind of like a raptor, right? Like he's always kind of testing you and you got Mike Dan Tony who's never paid much attention to defense. He's going to have a new staff. He doesn't have the backbone

because he doesn't have the backing of ownership or management. He just has to figure out a way to get it to make a work. And boy, I don't know. I don't know. I think they got better. I think long term

those last two years the deal are going to be bad but the last two years of Chris Paul's deal would have been bad. But I don't think it got them better to the point where they're better on paper than the Lakers or the Clippers. The one thing they would have going over the Lakers is the cohesion for the most part of all of those guys. It's basically the same team with the exception of put Russell Westbrook better player at this point in his career than Chris Paul. So you are kind of running it back with one big change, kind of like the Raptors last year.

And then for the Clippers, like look, the Clippers fly. law is pretty obvious. The Clippers, outside of Kauai Leonard, tell me the championship experience that they have. Doc Rivers, okay? But you don't have it in the bench and you don't have it in starters. Maybe they can add some of it. So I'm fascinated by this move. As for Chris Paul, and does...

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsLice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

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Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcasts presents, Soccer Mom. So I'm Leanne.

This is my best friend Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast.

We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here? Just hit it.

What are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? I would buy it. Cut through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict.

You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At work in Miami. you know it's interesting a lot like people have said the reason the new york new york mits new york nicks did not land a free agent is because of james dolan i don't

believe that to be the case is it possible that kairi irving didn't want to play for james dolan own team yes yes but they have an all african american front office and head coach they absolutely put themselves in position to to bring in a star player to be ready to go and it didn't happen. Part of it was KD got hurt and he wanted to go there, couldn't get anybody else to go with him, because Kauai wanted to go to L.A. not to New York. Like there was some other circumstances there. If you

think it's about ownership, then why wouldn't more guys go to Miami? Big market, beautiful weather, they've won championships before. They got Pat Riley, they got Eric Spolstra, who's well regarded. He's a championship caliber coach, and yet they couldn't get anybody. There are other mitigating circumstances.

One, you're not in New York and you're not LA, but also too, some of it is just luck of the draw. If they get Chris Paul, does that make them a great team? No, but in the East, it could make them competitive. And I think if you're in Miami, you've got to go for it. Betr river's sports book wants to invite you to discover the complete sports betting experience. The foundation of that experience is a massive number of betting options on nearly every regular sporting event around the world.

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Millions of Americans are getting back to work. CareerBuilder calls it the great rehire. And we want to help you get the best jobs before everyone else. CareerBuilder gives you the competitive edge to get the job you want, at the salary you want, with the benefits you want. We even send job alerts, so your perfect job lands right in your inbox. Go to careerbuilder.com today or get left with whatever jobs are left. Find your next job fast at careerbuilder.com.

And here we are reacting. to the idea that the L.A. Clippers, the L.A. Clippers, are the favorite to win the NBA championship. What in the actual hell took place? Now, I can be critical of some of my media brethren who, some have been duped, some have been led astray, and some quite possibly had the story right at the time. Like, this is a big thing that I don't know if people understand. Like, you're getting second, and maybe even firsthand information. I don't know if Kauai was in fact a source or Kauai's uncle or but there are times in which if you ask somebody,

if you ask somebody during that very moment, where's he going? It may be a different answer than comes to fruition. I'll give you an example. In 2012, I changed companies. I've been at ESPN for 10 years, nine years up in Connecticut. it. And it was announced, I think, in July of 2012 that I'd be leaving in September. And that's when I changed my career path from ESPN to CBS. I can tell you unequivocally that in May, I was made an offer that was the exact dollar

amount that I wanted, that I thought I deserved, excuse me, from ESPN, five years, long. The amount of years I thought would be perfect for me. And I actually went out to dinner that night with five different couples. And had you asked them when they were driving home, where's Doug Gottlieb going to sign? If it was important to anybody the way that the Clippers getting Kauai Leonard was important to people, where I was going, they would have said unequivocally he's going back to ESPN. Why? Because I told everybody I was going back to ESPN. I was asked at dinner and I kind of made

announcement, hey, don't know if this is, if it's not official yet, but it feels like we're going to be around. You're stuck with us for the next five years. That was it. And we all toasted. It was great. And the only thing that changed really was at some point, later

that night, I was walking around Foxwood's casino. It's true story. One of my buddies who had coached my daughters in soccer. And he's like, man, I coach your daughters in soccer this year. It was great. And I was like, my daughters at the time were six years old.

I just turned six. He's like, it was great. He was so much fun. They're so silly. They got great energy. They're really fun kids. Wish you would have been there. And it was like ringing in my head like, wish you would have been there.

Wish you would have been there. Wish you would have been there. And then I thought to myself when I was driving home that night with my wife. And the way it worked was there was a Sarah McLaughlin concert. Don't get me wrong. I like Sarah McLaughlin. She's fine. Not my jam for a concert.

So the wives went to the concert and we gambled and walked around and drank. And then ultimately we had a car service take us home. And I remember driving home that night or riding home that night, thinking to myself, like, I don't know if I can do this for five more years where I'm leaving for work before they get home and coming home when they're going to bed. And then every weekend, for five months out of the year, I'm doing college basketball. and then I got some stuff that I'm doing over the summer. Like, when is the point in time when I get to hang out and coach baseball,

coach basketball, you know, see them ride a horse or do whatever. My point is simply in that moment in time, had you asked my friends, had you asked my wife even, what's he going to do? She would have said, well, easy. He's resigning. And then another offer came my way, and the money was slightly more, but it was just different in terms of where I was working, where I was living, how I was, how my time would be, would be changed.

And so I changed jobs. But that decision wasn't until like a month later. So I'm not being defensive solely of my friends, but I can defend the fact that sometimes stories and outcomes change and people didn't get it wrong to begin with. So the summation of that is basically this. Look, I get it. I have friends and you may think I'm trying to not make them look bad. I don't really care.

Like, it's part of the job. You get a story. You better have two sources. You hope that it's right. But stories do, in fact, change. I'll give you one example, you know, professionally. I gave you the personal one of when I left ESPN. I was at ESPN.

And if you remember, I broke the story that the SEC was expanding, was welcoming in Texas A&M, Missouri. And the plan was, the plan was at the time, to go after two additional schools that end up getting blocked. And I look like a guy who only had half the story. But that was, in fact, the plan. Because there were thoughts that the Big Ten was going after Georgia Tech in order to get the Atlanta market and the SEC wanted to get Georgia Tech. That was, and Clemson. And what happened was there was a unification of the Kentuckies of the world that didn't want a Louisville in, the Georgia's, the, you know, the Florida's, the South Carolina's that, that frankly, the term is cock-blocked those schools from getting in.

And they only welcomed them in Texas A&M and Missouri. And I had on good authority that all four teams were going to be welcomed. Two teams were, in fact. Missouri's athletic director, Mike Alden at the time, said I didn't know what I was talking about when I had spoken to people in his athletic department. I spoken to people in the A&M athletic department. I actually knew Texas A&M's basketball team at the time was traveling overseas. I talked to three different people who were at a dinner where boosters

and the coaches and the players were all told this was happening. And yet then I'm called out. And then when it comes down and Clemson and Georgia Tech don't get invites, they're like, oh, you didn't know what they're talking about. Like, yeah, I did. Texas was, in fact, going to join the Pac-12 until it happened. Until it happened. That they didn't join.

So I'm not protecting my guys. I'm not protecting people who don't work for the company I work for. I'm just saying I didn't have a good read on Kauai. the clipper thing was out there for a long time. I found it to be interesting that the clippers were a team that you grew up in Southern California. And again, I'm an older generation. I'm before the Lob City generation. They were the laughing stock of the NBA.

And now they're the favorite to win the NBA championship. And that's just never happened in my lifetime that somebody would choose that brand over the Lakers brand, especially considering the Lakers, no matter how they played last year, they still have LeBron and Anthony Davis and could have had Kauai Leonard. Could have him. All right, let's get to how everyone fits where they are. All right, let's look at first the Lakers roster. I think there's some good things to it.

I do. There will be other people that kill it just because they want to kill the Lakers. They want to point out the flaws to what Rob Polinka's done. I'll just give you kind of my honest opinion here. I wish they would have gotten a Marcus Morse. I wish they would have gotten more shooting. But I also understand that sometimes there's limitations in the market. I don't think that Danny Green is as good as his shooting numbers from last year,

but he is coming off a year in which he shot 45% from 3. I would say the biggest flaw in their roster is who else is going to create a shot, right? Who else is going to make a play? This is a league not just of shooters and shot makers, but it's a league where you need people to break down the defense to start playing downhill. and I like that they bought Caruso back. I'm not sure I understand a couple of the signings. Like the Quinn Cook signing, that one I kind of don't get, right?

Like he's a second or third point guard. I guess you need three. Maybe they think that Rondo is more third point guard now, and it's Caruso first and Quinn Cook second. But he just does not have the defensive versatility that a Caruso has. and he hasn't shown himself to be anywhere near a starting player. And they don't really have, I mean, I guess Avery Bradley becomes the swing kind of two that can guard the point. But they just don't have other guys that create shots.

Do think they overpaid for Danny Green, but I think that's the position they were in. I don't love Contavius Colwell Pope, but if he's the eighth or ninth guy, I don't mind him. Like at that role, he's not bad. Troy Daniels, strictly a shooter, kind of a role player. And if you're wondering, I don't think Corver is a guy. Like, they just don't feel like Corver can guard anybody anymore. And in the playoffs, remember, he struggled to make shots. They struggled to keep him on the floor with Cleveland.

That was two years ago. Two years removed from that, not sure he finds the home here. Would they take an Avery Brad, an Andre Godala? Yeah. But in some ways, signing all these guys up maybe means that he Godala won't factor in that their decision won't be there. a guy, even though he was reped by Polinka. I still think when he's bought out, he's a guy that they will try and move mountains to get

because he gives them that defensive versatility they love, even he's not the shotmaker they like. Jared Dudley felt like he was over the hill last year, even though I like him. I mean, everybody likes Jared Dudley personally. He just turned 34 today, the time of this recording. But again, the big flaw of this roster would be the starting lineup does not appear to be that great. It has two great defensive players, or maybe three. Danny Green is a good defense player. Aver Brad is a good defense player and Anthony Davis, a very good defense player.

LeBron could be defensively, but I don't know how he'll move. He's lost a bunch of weight, but I don't know how he moved this year. And then whoever that fifth starter is, they go big to Marcus Cousins. That's not a great defensive player, but early on, if a team plays a traditional big, he'll be fine. When they go small, would it be a Caruso? That's a pretty good defense. LeBron becomes the worst defensive player in your lineup. you're a good team.

To put a kind of cap on it, I like their roster. I think it has some shooting. I think it has defensive versatility. I think it has some experience. I think it has a lot of toughness. The only flaw to it I see is the inability to have anybody outside of the LeBron James and maybe Anthony Davis break down a defense to create shots for others. I want to share with you this story for you.

Baxter Holmes has a piece out on ESPN.com. And it discusses what, you know, it discusses the overuse or overpracticing of athletes in a young age. And it uses some very specific examples of guys who have injuries. It talks about Julius Randall and how midway through the fourth quarter, the 19-year-old drove to the hoop, leapt collapsed. and he end up breaking his leg. His rookie season was over 14 minutes after it began. And what happens is some doctors will evaluate and say he overused the leg. We have this with injuries and to say,

you players are playing too many games. Here's my issue with the assumption that too many games too much wear and tear. I've spoken to orthopedic surgeons, and they've all kind of said the same thing. Like, the truth is that you're not really overusing any sort of muscles. Now, with my own son who's 10 years old, he plays a bunch of different sports. And I do think that if you've ever played different sports, you know you use different muscles and different muscle groups together. And so with that in mind, my son plays tennis and baseball and flag football. I kind of want to play tackle football.

He wants to play. It's kind of a fight at home. and he plays basketball. Now, he plays a lot of all of it. But the idea of being overused, like, look, kids are going to play basketball all the time. No, yes, they play way more tournaments than they used to, but they play way less pickup basketball than they used to. So they were still playing basketball, still putting themselves in harm's way. And, you know, some kids are ball as life guys, and they live in the gym, and I do think they should be more well-rounded.

and what you're left with is something I'm left with as a parent. Like, how do I push my kid to succeed in a sport knowing that if I don't, it's going to be too big a gap to catch up to when he's 14, 15 years old? Especially a kid who's going to be, at best, my size, right? It's like six feet tall. If you're six feet tall, you have to be more skilled, have more basketball IQ than anybody in order to make plays

and understand what's going on. Pure athletes, they don't need it as. as much, although it does obviously help them. And you just need gameplay in order to understand time, score, possession, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm not saying that these doctors are wrong, but let's be honest. Genetics play the biggest factor in how you hurt what you hurt, how your body is constructed, how sturdily. Your diet plays a factor.

Does overuse? Sometimes. Do we not develop athletes into all-around athletes? Okay. I'm sure people specialize at too young an age. But the only thing that overuse in terms of basketball

is it is more landing, more pounding, more chances of landing off balance, and that's when you hurt yourself. But playing basketball itself is not the type of sport where you're going to have broken legs,

broken bones, torn up Achilles and muscles, unless you have something genetic, something dietary, or you land awkwardly. And the only thing that playing a bunch of times does, it gives you more opportunities for more awkward landings.

So to me, it's, yeah, there's a limit, but it's more one emotional of understanding all the different sports and not being as locked in on one sport and then building up your entire body, which may cut down on some of the injuries. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Gottlieb show weekdays in noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. David Thorpe is a partner, lead analyst for TrueHoop.com, and they just launched their virtual player at the pro training center.com where he coaches players and coaches like he does his pro players who come in and work out with him.

You know the NBA so well. Let me just, let's just start. Does Hardin and Westbrook Part 2 work? I think short term, okay. A little bit. I think they moved in a little bit short-term. I'm not convinced absent a wholesale system change with Lane Doug coach, Mike Dentone, and a brand-new staff.

Absent that, I don't trust it long-term, Doug. No, I don't. Yeah, it's interesting because there's like a third part to the equation that people haven't discussed because all morning we just discussed, hey, Westbrook and then Chris Paul. and we'll get to the Mike Dan Tony element of it. I do think there's an irony there for Daryl Morey, a guy who has valued analytics and championed them to a level that until he did it,

hadn't previously maybe been seen in the NBA, valuing a player like Russell Westbrook, who is the highest volume, most inefficient, high volume three-point shooter in the NBA. Like this, doesn't this go counter to who he is and what he believes in? So, that's why I mentioned the kind of the fee change and how they play. So first of all, and Dale and I would say very friendly. I've known for a long time and I've spent a lot of time talking and texting over the years in person and mostly on the phone.

And because he's had players of mine that, you know, that I've trained or whatever. And I just value his knowledge. He's a great guy to talk to. I think he's always felt like the analytics are a part of the story, and the story begins, at least in his mind, with acquiring, you know, just fantastic players, difference makers. And then you fill in the gaps around it, and then you kind of also choose how you stylistically want to play.

And then, of course, you've got to find a coach that wants to play that way. He's played fast. He's played slow. They've always shot a lot of threes. I'm writing a piece for Trubb next week. So I've got a full week to dive into it, but they need to come up with a system, and I think there are some options that they have

where they're not asking Russell Westbrook to shoot a lot of threes unless and until maybe Russell Westbrook becomes a better three-point shooter, which is possible. Part of his problem, Doug, is shot collection. As you know, if one thing you'll be able to learn to shoot

and not everyone can learn to shoot to different degrees, obviously talent in shooting plays a factor. But even if he was a better shooter in terms of mechanics and rhythm and all that or consistency with the mechanic, his selection is bad enough. So you start missing shots, you begin to press a little bit. He doesn't have a student mentality for sure in a few different areas. And the result is you just can't ask him to play. I mean, if you looked at this on paper dog, you would say,

well, if Russell Westbrook just plays the way, Chris Paul plays only he's better and more durable typically. He'll soak up a lot more minutes. They'll be a little bit better than the last year, which was one of the best few teams in the league last year, in the last three quarters of the season. But I don't think that it works that way on the court. And that's why I think initially there'll be a honeymoon period.

But unless there's an acceptance of a different way for Russell, I think there's going to be pushback. And I think Hardin is going to get very frustrated. It wouldn't surprise me one bit, for example, for it hard to be the next star to say, I'm out of here. I don't get to happen, you know, November, December, but if it doesn't get fixed in the early part of 2020, I could see that happening. It is interesting that Daryl has really tried everything, right?

I mean, they tried the Dwight Howard thing. They thought Jeremy Lynn would be a thing. They obviously tried the Chris Paul thing, and now they tried this. have been different incarnations of it. I think in the short term, they got better. I do think, I think we're kind of killing Chris Paul. Like, the last two years of that deal are not going to be great. But when I watched him, when they had Capella, he's still great.

He's an unbelievable screen role player. The problem was when Capella, when they went to go small and they would just high ball screen for a mismatch, he can't really. really beat, you know, a three or even a four off the dribble. He's not that guy anymore, and he doesn't feel comfortable, you know, standing around and waiting for James Harden to pass him the basketball so much. So I kind of feel like we're underselling how effective Chris Paul could be because there were some playoff moments that weren't great.

And because he'd been injured in key moments in the playoffs more in his prime, Westbrook's interesting because when he was with the Thunder, and I will grant you, this is a long time ago. When he was at the Thunder, I'm friendly with a couple of guys in their front office then. And they said, like, look, truth is James Hardens our point guard in the fourth quarter, and Russ is okay with it because he's a great cutter.

My one thought on Russ is, and I obviously now he's played a different way for the last six, seven years. Yeah. And it's really hard. Now you're like, you're going to try and relearn something. something you used to do back, you know, early in your career. But won't the lane be more spread out?

And now, he's not a great finisher. I think people think because he's an explosive athlete, that he's a great finisher. But won't he finish at a higher percentage? Won't that help him? It won't help him from the free to the line and from three, but isn't there the chance to get to the cup easier because most times there'll be nobody at the basket waiting for? Well, the only got to be waiting would be the guy guarding Capella, And then you're kind of caught in the pickle because if you commit to Westford's drive and Capella has easy a lot because he can jump to, you know, 13 feet.

So on the finishing part, I actually think he is a great finish. I think what you said is right because statistically it's easy to prove that you're right. But I think that goes back to shot selection too. I think you drive in a crowd too much and hope to get a foul or just think he's Superman to make all those shots. And you just can't. It's just an amazing lesson that I work with athletes on every level all the time. You stop, top thing to test the shots anywhere you are. Unless you're like Jack Randolph, who just has ungodly touch or Blake Griffin,

we're just incredible at kind of finishing through contact. It's just not a good shot. But, yeah, in theory, this goes back to what I was saying, if they change the way they play, and I think there's things he can do in the post, I think there's a lot of things he can do with a cutter. I think that it's going to be a net positive. It's just here's the thing. It's an arms race right in the West.

Houston absolutely was a contender. I gave them a 40% chance to beat Golden State two years ago before the series. And, of course, they lost that series. This year, I thought it was much less likely that they could win, and then, of course, they didn't. But it doesn't take away from the great season they had after not a great start. And I think the Capella, Andrew, as you mentioned, was a big factor.

So I think the needle has, I think they were incrementally better, a little bit better this year. The problem is Utah is much better. Denver just had a Jeremy Grant. And they're young and now they've got some experience with not one by two seven-game series under their belt in the playoffs, you know, which has a little gray of your hair. Of course, we know what happened else where White Side becomes a very good backup to NERCITS for a terrific and maybe underrated Portland team. the West, I have it as eight contenders. Can I give you another team? Can I give you another team that I actually think has a chance to make the playoffs that no one's talking about?

Talk about it? I like Phoenix. I like Phoenix. Like Ricky Rubio is a good defender. They've been dying for a point guard. They're dying for a point guard. And they got rid of some of the poison in that locker room. You know, they had, they just had, they had some issues with Josh.

Jackson, you know, they, you know, they just, everybody thought that he was a culture cure and turns out he was a culture killer. And I mean, they have one of the elite scores in the NBA. Like, I don't know if it happens this year. But again, my point is, and this is why, and I want to get to the roster construction of some of these teams in a second, why I saw Houston added Tyson Chandler today. I think that's a mistake. Tyson Chandler can't play anymore. And you need some young guys on your bench. because the regular season is so rigorous, so rigorous that if you don't have young guys that have fresh legs, they can carry you through the regular season, you end up playing your

vets too much and they have nothing left in the postseason? Well, so I completely endorse what you just said. I just did a Denver show last night where I talked about how I think Denver should play super fast instead of relatively slow. Yoke is such a great rebounder, an outlet pastor, and then you could always go half-court with them if you can't score early in transition, but you can wear teams down, and they at D-Team, but go back to your Rubio point. Most people probably don't remember this, but I've had to follow the league pretty closely

for a long time. And when they had Peckovich and Kevin Love, I watched all their games, many of their games, if not most of their games. And Rubio is maybe the best post-feater off the dribble that I've ever seen. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

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In terms of finding creative ways to get the big guy the ball, it's not just a simple drive-and-dish that you and I, well, you did it more than I did, you were a much better player than me, but I used to try to do that. And, of course, Cleveland did it for generations. But Rubio does it in such creative way. And so their big guy who's pretty talented is going to get as long as he can catch the ball, which I don't think his hands are bad. They're going to have to get better because Rubio makes some pretty incredible bounce passes off-drive.

You don't see coming, and the defense doesn't see it coming either, which is why it's genius. And so, yeah, his numbers are going to explode because of Ricky. But still, I think I gave you 18. They're all better, obviously, before injuries. And so that's my point. The West is so loaded. Maybe the most load that's ever been, and we've had some West eight playoff seeds that won like, you know, 50 games. I think it's better now, and that's why Houston has got to figure this out because it's just the competition is too fierce otherwise.

Does Chris Paul, let's say he ends up in Miami, and they probably have to involve a third team. But that seems to be the one, right, where that seems to be the one that makes some sense. Does what does he do? How does he fit with Jimmy Butler? Okay, so there's another team I think makes him sense. I don't know that it'll work out, but to me, Detroit has, I agree with what you said to start the conversation. Those two are oil and water, though, aren't they, Blake and him? I don't know.

Yeah, you know better than me being out there. I don't know if they can ever work together. Hardin has just, he just rejoined with Westbrook. I've heard they're actually friends. Miami, so here's the thing on Chris Paul. Early in his career, and maybe you're more connected to this part of the story than I am, because I don't know the answer to this. But earlier his career, I mean, four or five years in, he was a fun guy to play with.

I actually went to a game in New Orleans where they played, he was in New Orleans, they played Utah with Derri Williams. And I was doing a big study, just a personal study for his end on those two players. then you'd recognize with the top two point guards in the league. And Derek Williams just a jerk before the game. I got there two hours early. I watched all the guys warm up like I always do. And he's just razzing guys.

They come in. And you could see he was a mouth-intent immediately, which surprised me. I didn't really know that much about it. CP was just so different. He was just a breath of fresh air for every guy coming in. It was a relatively big game because Derek Williams team always kind of beat New Orleans team back then with Chris Paul, even though I thought Chris Paul was better. And that is not the case anymore, Doug.

I don't hear people enjoying their time playing with Chris Paul in L.A. and in Houston, I heard some announcers, some journalists that are friends of mine yesterday on a podcast talk about how at one point last year they literally read James Hard's list. They were sitting close to the court when Chris Paul complained about something and Hard's responsive. It's always effing something with you. And that tells a big story. He is mouth intent now. And so I don't know how it goes to Jimmy Butler, who I think actually is a pretty good guy better than maybe his reputation is, but he's a hard-driven guy. Maybe because Chris Paul is so competitive, which I think he is, that by the guy, and Pat Riley's really good. Like, I don't think the heater a well-run organization, A to D, but on the court, they do a great job of being a very professional product.

And Pat Riley is one of the few guys in the league, you'd probably agree, that has become of the gravitas to organize, you know, someone like Chris Paul and Jimmy is, hey, guys, we got to get along here. But I'm curious how Father feels about this. He didn't sign up for this if indeed Chris Paul is the guy that he partners with. Yeah, it's going to be super interesting. This clip is brought to you by State Farm. At State Farm, they know it's important to ensure the things you love. They also get that everyone has a budget.

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saw both more for the regular season. But so the Clippers will be right. there. They're obviously very good. The other teams are, too. I think L.A. is going to take some time. I happen to think LeBron is still amazing. Anthony Davis, beyond amazing as well. I don't love Rondo. I don't... I think Spobo's got

a handful. The Rondo one is the one that I don't like. Now, maybe he doesn't play that much. He can't guard anybody anymore. Do you think LeBron plays the one like they're saying? What does that mean?

I think Caruso, I think Caruso is the guy who comes off the bench and becomes, yeah, moves him to, moves him back to four. When they go small, I think Caruso's the guy that they, I don't really get like, Quinn Cook doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Rondo, and I know the, I think they'll leave a spot open to hopefully get Andre Godala. Yeah. And, you know, Troy Daniels is just a sniper and come in and shoot. I don't like KCP normally, but if he's your ninth or tenth guy, I don't hate it.

just because, you know, against backups, he's fine. But I... Maybe he's their sixth man like Lou Williams is. He's not Louis. But if he can score better, he's actually good offense to square. Kuzma is that guy. Kuzma is the guy that they expect to be their sixth man and to come in. And they feel like they're walking on the court with 75 points between Kuzma, AD, and LeBron James.

I think the big question for LeBron James is how does he move this? year. I've heard he's down 20, 25 pounds. And then if you, I think defensively they could be very good. You put Avery Bradley on the ball. You have, you try and hide LeBron. Anthony Davis can erase mistakes. Danny Green's obviously a plus defender. I think you have other good defenders, you know, on that team. Kuzman's not one of them.

But Anthony Davis can defend the rim and Avery Bradley can defend the ball. You start there. And Danny Green can guard whoever's best player. He's not, not. peak Danny Green, but he's not bad. I think he's pretty good defensively. What I struggle with is who's going to create shots other than

LeBron? And even LeBron at this stage in life, he kind of has to do the bully ball or post-up thing to create shots more than he used to be kind of a freak athlete as he's lost to step. I guess maybe are they depending on Anthony Davis to create?

Who create shots plays downhill for other people? So when you were saying this, what I was thinking is if the Lakers, it's going to sound maybe more ironic than it should, but if the Lakers are going to be the best team in the West, Anthony Davis probably needs to be the MVP of the league and maybe the leading score. He's got to be that guy. He can't create his own shot.

He can do whatever he wants on the court. It's an incredible testament to how people, I mean, he scored, he made one field goal in his last game at Kentucky. Now he was a freshman, but he made one field goal. And that championship came. He is an incredible offensive player now and still ascending. So I think he needs to be the guy that gets the most shots. I think the team needs to revolve around him.

If you remember when LeBron first got to Miami, they struggled at first for a few different reasons. I every thought that LeBron Wade carrying was incredible and would no doubt succeed. It did not do great that at first maybe six weeks or so until Wade kind of publicly and privately said, LeBron's a better player on this team. and we kind of let him lead. I'd like to see LeBron admit. I'd like it to say day one, the best player in the world right now is Anthony Davis,

and we're going to prove it every night. I think that might be the reasoning game is number. I think that might be the reasoning game is number. I agree with you. Interesting. Yeah, that'd be smart for him to do, and then answers your question. Everything starts with Davis.

I asked you about point guard. LeBron's always been kind of a primary ball handler. That's not going to change. change, nor should it. So the Rondo thing, I've never understood that, although he is ridiculously smart, and that'll make some difference. When you say Kuzma, I agree with you. I've always thought Kuzma has to be the six-man guy,

but he can't do what Lou Williams does by himself, nor can't KCP, but combined, if they just let those guys go as scores in that second group, obviously Davis got to play with him some because of his defensive abilities, and we'll see if they get Igadala. That's right. That's one of the bigger questions. What happens now? Does Chris Paul go somewhere to a contender and where does the Agadala go?

And if not the Adela is great anymore. He can't be great defensively. He can struggle a lot offensively. But he like he can raise his level when it matters. Yeah, no doubt. When it matters, he can raise his level. Last thing, we got about a minute and a half. Last thing.

Okay. Can you explain to me what the 76ers did? Like, I don't, I get during the regular season, it gives them the ability to rest their best player, but how do you play at the end of a game with two centers? So, yeah, I can't explain it. And I wrote about this actually a week ago when they first got him, and I said that he's, like, to me, they did better than Brooklyn did.

We'll see you in a year and a half if Durant can play and how they pair up. I'm not fond of that pairing. But basically the world champion Toronto Raptors got crushed by Philadelphia when NB was on the court. They lost by 20 points for 100 possessions. They got destroyed when NB was on the court. And then Toronto made all their hay when NB was off the court. And, of course, it was a seven-game series.

That won't be the problem anymore. I don't know if they'll play both guys together in the fourth quarter. They don't have to because they can play Harris at the four. But Horford's a floor spacer. He's very comfortable being a facility out on the floor. he also can lead the break. Brilliant defender and a space defender. In other words, he takes up face and cuts off angles and makes you veer around him.

And then when you're focused on him, that's an A.B. comes from behind or up top and blocks the shot or at least input or even more. So I think he'll play come. I think it'll be the first guy out in major games and then play with the second group. So there's always going to be, you know, an anchor defensively for a team that desperately needed one. And he doesn't need the balls very much. much to be effective. So I think it works out very, I think they're going to be fantastic.

I think they're one of two, Devon, Milwaukee, to win the East after another deal, Westbrookosa, Miami still wouldn't have done it. It's a two-team race right now in the East. Awesome stuff. David, can't wait to see your next stuff and read your next stuff at true hoop.com. In the meantime, we appreciate you giving us your analysis here on the All Ball podcast.

Thanks, be good. Take care. Be sure to catch live editions of the Doug Dotleap Show, weekdays at noon Eastern 3 p.m. Pacific. TBT, the basketball tournament, which gets underway. I know I'm coaching next weekend in Greensboro. Nick Elam, who is the inventor and founder of the Elam ending, joins us. It's become kind of a summer celebration of hoop. Nick, thanks so much for joining us in the All Ball podcast.

Great to be here. Thank you. I know you're not one of the founders of TBT, but give me the, Do you know how did it all start? Because I had a buddy who played at Princeton, and they had this idea for an alumni tournament. This is going back to the early 2000s. Like take all the alumni from all of these college teams and guys that somehow go off in the business, some play overseas and come back and play against other schools that you played against maybe in the NCAA tournament.

It was going to be in Vegas. I just wondered how the idea, how it all kind of came to be in. 2014. Yeah, so for John Mugar and Dan Friel, I think that their concept was that, you know, anybody can form a team and enter a tournament and the winner takes home a big prize in this winner-take-all tournament. That was really the appeal. What set it apart was that it was winner-take-all.

And I think even then they didn't quite know what they had or what was going to be, you know, what would take it to the next level. I think as the years went on, as more alumni teams, did start to form. I think that that's created more of a following. And what was great is that in those early years, the TBT was really gaining positive momentum. It really was becoming a well-known event. And so that's why it meant so much for me that in 2017, here they already have this thriving event. And going into 2017, after I had reached out to them and proposed the concept of the Gilemoning, that they decided to implement it on an experimental basis.

Again, it wasn't because they needed to do it. It was because they really wanted to do it. They wanted to try and innovate and move to the next level. And then after they saw how it worked on a limited basis in 2017, then to go full speed ahead for their full event in 2018, and then here again in 2019, using the ELM ending. So for me, that's always been the best endorsement that the format can get is for somebody to take a chance on it

and to implement it in their own event. That's what they've done at TBT. Yeah, I think this is going to be interesting. So obviously I'm getting a coach in this thing, coach Team 23. We take on Power of the Paul, which is a Clemson alumni that's on Friday, July 19th. That'll be on ESPN.

Fun. And, okay, so the element, so for people who don't know, you're a professor, right? You were a teacher at the time that this came to be. Like, how did you, give me the when you came up with, hey, this is how we should end

basketball. Sure. So, yeah, I mean, I first devised the idea, I guess, when I was a teacher, and then since then I moved on to be a school principal. Now I'm a professor. But really, the first kind of big discussion about this was way back when I was a senior

at the University of Dayton, and I was a diehard Dayton Flyers fan, and I've been a lifelong basketball fan. And all my roommates were all big sports fans. So we're sitting around watching March Madness and, you know, watching games just end, you know, like we had seen so often before. And that day, it just happened to be a lead eight Sunday.

I remember it was Duke and Xavier. And, you know, here we had this great game that once you get to the closing minutes, you know, it just totally warps into a totally different style of play. And quite frankly, I think, an inferior style of play where the leading team stalls and plays very passively, the trailing team. Now they get so desperate when they're on defense, they have to foul and hand away free points. When they're on offense, they have to rush and force up ugly shes. shots, and sometimes it makes very slim deficits, very difficult to overcome.

And a lot of really big games and good games just kind of end with a whimper. So we're kind of looking at each other saying, you know, it's just really kind of a weird way to end games, even though we had become accustomed to it, being big sports fans at the time. Well, we didn't have any solutions at the time, but it was a few years later thinking about a little bit more where in 2007 I thought, well, maybe, you know, all these different things that we see at the end of the game, it's an effort to manipulate the game. clock. So maybe if you just got rid of the clock during the last stretch of the game, maybe that would address a lot of these concerns. So that's how it started and then really kind of researching

and kind of tinkering with the idea, looking more into, you know, gathering some data on NBA games and NCAA games. And then really once out felt very confident in the format that it was sound, that it was necessary, then reaching out the people in the basketball world and trying to get somebody to take a chance on it. And finally, a few years later, TBT did. Okay, so for people who haven't seen the ELEM ending, and maybe no, okay, under four minutes to go, right, the team who's leading has to score how many points? So, again, the, you know, we can say, well, you're going to play most of the game with the

clock and you're going to play the last part of the game without a clock that begs two questions. Well, okay, so when do you shut off the clock and what do you play to? The settings would actually vary based on the league or the event. It would kind of depend on what their style of play is. But for TBT, what we are going with here in 2019 is that once you get past that four-minute mark of the fourth quarter, the next stoppage, we're going to go ahead and shut off the clock. Then we're going to set a target score, and that target score is equal to the leading team score plus eight. So, for example, let's say that the score is 65 to 60 when you get to that first stoppage under four minutes. Okay, we're going to get rid of the clock.

It's still 65 to 60, but now we're going to play first team to 73 wins the game. And the idea is if you've got the lead, you can't just stall and play passively. You have to keep playing assertively to try to get that target score. If you're behind, you don't have to foul and hand away free points when you're on defense. you don't have to rush and force up ugly shots when you're on offense. That whole combination of factors makes late comebacks more likely, makes the outcome of games less predictable, and every game is going to end with the swish of a net.

You're going to have more memorable game-ending moment. So that whole – that's how it is supposed to work on paper, and so it's been a thrill for me to see now that it's gone from paper to the court here in TBT to see that it is meeting all those primary aims and even a handful of secondary aims. So it's looking good, not just in. theory, but now in practice. And so now I'm looking at ways to make the format even better going forward.

So I'm excited about the positive momentum it has. Okay. So what are the couple of the, it's interesting because guys develop a strategy with it, right? And so the first strategy is whoever's leading calls the timeout under four, right, so that they can as soon as they get the basketball so that they can set the target score, correct? Right. That's been a common strategy. If you've got a lead, once you get that first opportunity to call timeout and initiate that on time portion of the game, go ahead and do it.

Honestly, I don't have any problem with that. I don't think that's really a drawback to the format necessarily. No, but you could, and I've thought about this, right? You could. If you go down and you get a bucket, you would kind of extend, you give yourself a little bit bigger buffer. And then, right, like a part of it creates, okay, it's always, only eight points, only, you know, potentially three buckets, you know, maybe max four.

Or you can get yourself a little bit bigger cushion if they expect you to call a timeout. Kind of like the, it's the fake spike play. Remember the famous Dan Marino, fake spike play, fake the spike? And could you dribble up like you're going to call a time out and then quickly score a layup? And then you create a stoppage. And now you have a bigger cushion so that you protect yourself against comeback. So you could. Now, we haven't seen a team try that.

And so far, even though, you know, the common strategy is to call timeout, still it seems like the defenses are still on their toes there, even if they're expecting their opponent to call timeout. They're still ready to prevent any kind of, you know, kind of a fake spike play. But that would be interesting if the team tried that. I haven't seen that yet. Okay, so are there. And so to go along with that, I really give a lot of credit to John Mugar and the folks at TPT

because they want to take a very patient approach with the format. Because I've actually proposed kind of a handful of different modifications to it, and they said, well, they've told me, hey, you know, let's let it play out. Let's let teams kind of push the limits of the format and see if we have something to address here. They don't want to overregulate it too quickly. But, you know, if something does arise that would create a concern, we do have, you know, kind of a plan B in place for different. So that's what's exciting to me is that, you know, I'm actually looking at it with more

kind of a critical eye and more scrutiny than even TBT is. So that tells me that, you know, it's working well because they're the ones ultimately that have something to gain or lose by how well this format works. Biggest comeback with this format so far. So one thing that I thought was just a thrill was in just, I'm trying to think, back to 2017. So this is either the fifth or sixth game ever. that Elam ending had been put in place. And there was a Rutgers alumni team facing another team called Silver Springs Willows Runners.

I'll just call them Silver Springs. But anyway, Silver Springs goes into the Elam ending up by 13 points. And so then we're shutting off the clock. Instantly, the Rutgers alumni team goes on a 14-0 run to take the lead, and then it goes back and forth until we get this sudden death situation, essentially, and Silver Springs did end up winning that game. So even though Rutgers came back to overcome a 13-point deficit, they didn't win there.

But one game from last year, and this is just one of several examples, there was a game, again, just unbelievable between primetime players and always a brave. Always a Brave was a Bradley Alumni team. So the Bradley team goes in, to the Elamon, and they're up 59, 50, playing to 66, because last year we used a plus seven model. The game proceeds to where later on it's 64, 57, again, just playing to 66.

So primetime players, they really have their backs up against the wall. They go on an 11-0 run and win the game on a three-pointer. And, again, it's just the fact that as long as they can continue to get defensive stops, then you're still in the game. So I don't necessarily think it's going to lead to this avalanche of additional comebacks, but I do think it is going to lead to kind of a healthy uptick because, again, as long as you can get stops and scores, you're truly still in the game. And I think one thing that's cool is whether there's a comeback or not,

the end of the game is a little bit more satisfying just because we're seeing a more natural style of play late in the game. Yeah, the only thing, and like, look, I would just, I agree with you. I don't like guys dribbling out the clock, but the shot clock does have a tendency to even that thing out, especially an NBA shot clock. I guess, you know, when you learn basketball, you learn time, score, and possession. My understanding your time and score, and there is a certain math to it,

I don't mind the eel amending. I just, you know, I do think it does take away from the purity of how the sport has evolved and created. It doesn't mean that there's not room for it. That's just kind of my, it's always been my general takeaway. I'm excited to coach it to see how it feels and the strategy to it and to learn about it myself. Well, and trust me, you don't have to apologize at all

for offering any kind of scrutiny. Because, again, it took me a while to sell myself on the idea. And it actually reached a point after a while where I thought, you know what, this modified version of basketball, Elam ending, this looks more like real basketball than what we see under the regular format. And there are games, you know, games I watch all the time that kind of reaffirm my thought. And one of them would be, you know, game six of the NBA finals this year.

We have this thrilling game coming down to the wire. At the time, it was a one-point game. And then you think about the final sequence of this championship clinching game where you get a Golden State calling a timeout because they're so desperate to stop the clock. They call a timeout that they didn't even have. So then you have to administer a technical free throw. Then Toronto gets to inbound the ball. And then you get the quick foul from Golden State. Well, now time expires.

So then the officials have to go to the monitor to put time back on the clock. Then you administer those free throws. Then you end up with this kind of a meaningless shot. It's like this is kind of a silly way to end championship and to think, man, this could have come down to kind of a sudden death situation. You know, next bucket wins. I think that that would have been a much better. And to use your word, I think it would have been a pure way to end the game than kind of the mess that we saw at the end of game six. I kind of agree with you.

So it's a fascinating thing to watch. Give me one modification, as you talked about, that you potentially would love to see whether in this tournament or in others. So one example of a situation where we've had some situations to come down to what I call a sudden death situation where both teams are anywhere within three points of that target score. Well, one very specific scenario would be where the offense is exactly three points away. way, and then the defense is one or two points away from the target score. Now, in that case, what we've seen in some cases, not every case, but in some cases, the defense will foul to prevent a game-winning three-pointer in that case. Well, again, I would still say that that's a little bit more forgivable than the repeated

fouling we see under the regular format. It's not a repeatable strategy. It would occur in much fewer games. It's still kind of, once you get, once you get, you. get past the free throws, it sets up a thrilling finish, which we don't always see under the regular format. But I would still like to see that particular situation, that scenario, play out more fluidly. And so what I would do in a situation like that where you're down to that sudden death scenario, I would essentially kind of outlaw fouls on the floor. Now, what, you know, technically fouls on the

floor or against the rules anyway, any foul is. But what I would say is in that particular case, If you commit a foul on the floor in that situation to prevent a game-winning three-pointer, then do something like you get one shot in the ball, something like that. Take away the incident to commit the foul in that particular situation, just so we can see that sudden death situation play out more fluidly. But again, that's getting into the weeds a little bit there. That's one of those things where I bring it to TBT, and they're like, well, you know, let's not get too far ahead of this thing here.

Let's not over-regulate it until we even know whether we have a problem or not. but that's one way I could see in future versions of the ELAM ending, having that minor modification. Hmm. Fascinating stuff. Well, Nick, I can't wait to coach in the tournament. It's going to be truly a thrill for me. And I'll have you back on.

I'll tell you what I think after having experienced it. That's great. Thanks so much. Good luck. Thank you, Nick. Thank you. All right, that's it for the All-Ball podcast. Be sure to tune in next week.

Download, subscribe, and rate, and tell your friends what a good. crazy free agency season we've had in the NBA. We'll get back to longer-form summer conversations upcoming next week. Remember, make sure you listen to the Doug Gottlieb show daily from 3 to 6 Eastern, 12-3 Pacific on Sirius XM. It's on the Dan Patrick channel. I think that's 217 and 203, depending on what you have, Sirius or XM. You can also listen to it on iTunes, download that pod.

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