The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb - All Ball - w/guests Evan Daniels and Joel Francisco

Episode Date: July 27, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as a TV analyst and radio host. In this episode, Doug talks NBA, recruiting, AAU and more with guests Evan Daniels and Joel Francisco. Follow Doug on Twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be playing. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast hey welcome in i'm godlieb this is all ball all basketball all the time we'll talk to mba with you and we're going to talk some recurring with you the july evaluation period is on us so of course we're going to reach out to Vegas where everything goes down in terms of the last one of the last one.

weekend in July Eval. The date of this recording is Thursday, July 26th, on Wednesday, July 25th. There was an outs, there was a huge, like the AAU game of the year, if you will. It was the Compton Magic versus Team Takeover. Team Takeover, of course. You can follow them on Twitter at TTO basketball. We'll get some insight into their roster as well into the Compton Magic. They're at Compton underscore Magic. Big game. Bishop Gorman, Compton Magic win by two points. Full House, packed house for the Las Vegas Fab 48, which of course my guy, Dinos Trigonus puts on every year.

And it's going to be interesting to see what happens with July recruiting. There's a lot of July recruiting guys that are gloom and doom, thinking the NCAA is going to just, like Lemmings, follow the recommendation of Condoleezza Rice and the rest of her committee members. I'm not so sure. and as I've stated on previous podcasts, there have been all sorts of different incarnations of what the summer looks like.

And almost without fail, the shoe companies survive. The players who have been evaluated in different venues for years will still be evaluated. And most of the same people, at least the good ones, the ones that have earned the respect

of the AAU and the basketball community, will still stay around the sport. How it actually plays I don't know yet, but before you say gloom and doom and make fun of the fact that Condoleez Rice has never stepped inside an AAU gymnasium, let alone a big time AAU game, I'm with you. But let's not go gloom and doom until the actual rule comes out and then to see how it actually plays. Because the genius to some of these AAU guys, some of these people that put on events is they find a way to succeed even when the rules are against them. Like they're not, they'll find a way.

There will be games. They will have the best players. And the question becomes, can they make it more centralized? Can there be continued coaching? You know, it's interesting as we come off of the World Cup and how many great basketball players we produce as a country and how few great soccer players we produce as a company. Yes, the AAU system can run amok. And look, do I think that? all guys belong in college, probably not.

But the fact is that however screwed up our system of raising young stars in basketball is, it does seem to work. Now, it's helped by the fact that, and I've stated this on a radio show, which you can hear daily 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 12 to 3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app, and on our serious XM Channel 83. Part of it is helped out by the best athletes still play football in basketball. football and basketball in high schools and growing up. It's still cooler than playing soccer.

So I'm not blind to the fact that you have a better caliber of athlete. You start with that as the premise. And, you know, a lot of kids now have dads or moms or dads and moms that both played. So there's a tremendous amount of sports basketball IQ within the household. You know, you're not playing with the same hand of cards that everybody else is playing with. Understand that. but the amount of creativity, the amount of games, the level of competition, the diversity of competition is so great that we continue to pump out far and away the greatest percentage of the best basketball players on Earth. And this is not to diminish the Argentines who have made a name for themselves in the NBA.

Dirk Novitsky as a German, so many of the Yugoslavians, the Serbians. You name it, there have been players from all over the, the Brazilians have made it, the Spaniards, of course, but the truth is that the reason our younger teams are dominating is, one, the leadership of USA basketball, and two, we do have the best and most diverse group of athletes out there. And three, frankly, this screwy system to which players bounce from team to team, shoe companies always kind of seem to have something in the game.

And all these vivid personalities who may or may not be funneling money from somewhere reputable or somewhere of ill repute to some of these players, to some of their families to take care of these kids before they get to college before they become professional. however screwy it is, it does have a tendency to work. It does. All right, let's talk about the news of the day with the NBA. Two things. One, Kauai not playing for USA basketball.

And two, Kevin Durant, getting into it with C.J. McCollum on Twitter after sitting down with C.J. McCollum and appearing on his podcast. And it's interesting because you can have, if you listen to the podcast, I, I, I, I think it speaks really well to Kevin Durant. There's a lack of, there's nothing for him to be defensive about, but he definitely wasn't, he wasn't defensive in it. Now, what CJ, I think, did, which I don't like that people in the media have a tendency to do. And I think he understands that now when you host a podcast, it becomes far different than when you're just on Twitter or when you appear as somebody else's guest. on the podcast, he never mentioned that the word soft.

He never mentioned the word soft in regards to Kevin Rand. Kevin Rand appears in the podcast. He didn't turn to him, at least the part I heard. He never said, hey, that decision you made to join the Golden State Warriors was soft. And then subsequently on Twitter, he did use the soft word. And he also contradicted himself saying, you know, he didn't have a lot of stuff. a problem with it, but it was soft. It was a soft decision.

And so, look, there's a lot of, and that is an analogy missed in terms of using a, when you're not a gang guy, I don't know why you use a gang analogy. I understand the, hey, you got beat up by guys. And so instead of, you know, showing some grittiness and toughness and learning how to fight and fighting your way out of it, I got the reference. Kevin Durant, I thought, took the reference a different way, took the parallel a different way. but I look at this and I'm just kind of blown away by a couple things.

One, I think St. John McCullum, who has great intentions at heart, has now learned a really hard kind of conundrum that many people in this business face, which is if you rip a guy when he's not on your show, are you willing to be at least mildly combative? when he is. And I'm not going to point out other radio hosts who come, but a lot of them do. They completely lay down. They'll kill a guy. And then that same guy will come on and be on their show. And one while they're on and then two, I think the worst part is after they've been on because now they feel like they're a friend. They won't ever say anything bad about them. Even when they deserve, like my whole thing is you'll hear people appear on this. You'll appear people appear on my radio show when I fill in for other people's radio show. and you can say I'm coming out them, but I just think it's unfair to say like,

hey, this guy's decision was soft. Then you have that guy on. Then you have Kevin Durant on and not state your opinion as it being soft and why you think it's soft and allowing him during that time to dispute that. Now, what CJ did, that's, he's not the only one. And it's really, really hard,

especially when he's just learning in this business. He's just starting out. The podcast is called the pull-up podcast. Right? Pull up jump shot. Get it. Pull up. But like, look, if you're going to go on to Twitter and call Kevin Durant's decision to join the Golden State Warrior Soft, you've got to say the same thing to Kevin Durant when he's in person. The amazing part about KD joining the Golden State Warriors that no one outside of me has mentioned on national radio is that it wasn't just that KD needed the Warriors to win a championship. The Warriors needed Kevin Durant. We all point to 73 wins. Right? That's the big thing.

Well, he was on a 73-win team. That 73-win team did not win a championship, and that 73-win team probably should have lost to the Oklahoma City Thunder. That team was not as good as their record would tell you. It just wasn't. Case in point, they also were the first team to ever lose the three games to one lead in the NBA finals. It's just like on that same podcast, the Portland Trailblazers were 49 and 33.

They were the number three seed. the number three seed in the NBA playoffs and KD said y'all played like an eighth seed. That's because their record was not indicative of just how good they were. Damian Lillard played above his level of the second half the year. He had an incredible year. And half the teams in the West were tanking. You combined that with so many of the injuries, you know, Andre Robertson getting hurt.

The trade, the jazz went through kind of mid-season. You know, we have a tendency to, you know, the trade. the Clippers went through when they trade away Blake Griffith. The Lakers. When did you play the Lakers? Did you play the Lakers when they had their older players when they had Isaiah Thomas or when they went young late in the season they were trying to win games? You know?

So like, look, your regular season record, and I understand 73 wins had never been done before. Your regular season record, though, has never been indicative of whether or not you're a championship team. Case in point, Eastern Conference, who had the best record, 59 wins, the Toronto Raptors. They weren't the favorites to get to the NBA. finals. Neither were the Boston Celtics with 55 wins or the Philadelphia 76ers with 52 wins. So the first thing that we have to start with in talking about Kevin Durant is the Warriors needed him. They were not a perfect team. They did win 73 games. That's because they were a 60, 65 win team that went for it. They went for the jugular. They went for every last win when other

teams had decided to shut it down. You sub out Harrison Barnes and most of their bench. You lost Andrew Bogot as well, and he ended up adding Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant needed the Warriors needed the space to show just how good a player he was. But the Warriors needed Kevin Durant equally. Otherwise, I'm not sure they win another championship. You can dispute that all you want, but I would think Harrison Barnes would get better because you're so early in his career. But if you re-sign Harrison Barnes, are you absolutely going to win the last two championships? So two years ago, you're absolutely going to win the championship.

Like, I don't know that the answer is yes against Kyrie Irvin, Kevin Love, LeBron James, and that cab team that they had lost to the previous year. I would have liked to seen it. Now, was Kevin Durant's decision soft? You know, everybody likes to claim, this is like how everyone likes to claim that they grew up super poor. No one's ever grown up and said, like, no, I really grew up comfortable. You talk about how you grew up to somebody else, and it seems that every person on earth grew up barefoot, butt naked, walking to school and a foot of snow, walking home from school, it was uphill both ways.

No one ever grew up with money. That's like the same thing with the NBA. It's always got to be the toughest road. If you have a problem with what Kevin Durant did, that's fine. But you also should have a problem with what LeBron James did. When he left and he went to Miami, that was Dwayne Wade. and they added Chris Bosch. And oh yeah, by the way, then later on they added Ray Allen.

Like, he joined a stacked team. Why wouldn't you join a stack team? And it'll be fascinating to see how we react to LeBron this year with a team that's the opposite of stacked, a team that has a bunch of young pieces and kind of the Isle of Misfit toys on the bench. So I don't think it was about being soft or being tough. I think it's fake toughness to sit there and bash your head in.

I honestly think he was ready for something new. I've said this all along. And he was also ready for space. Space so that you couldn't double team him so he could show that he was the best one-on-one scorer in the league, that he had an unstoppable weapon, and that's his pull-up jump shot. And you know what? The last two NBA finals? He's proven to be right.

All right. Last night in Las Vegas was the AAU game, really, of the year. The champions of the Adidas Gauntlet series and the champions of the YBL. that's the Nike series met up. And Evan Daniels, he has his own podcast. It's really good. You can download it. We'll tweet it out.

Fox Sports does it. Of course, Evan Dan's called the sidelines. Evan Danes joins us on the Doug Gottlieb show. Look, every year there is one of these Titanic matchups. They used to be, back in my day, they used to be for the championship of a tournament. That's not the way it works. What was the level of intensity for this game as opposed to ones that actually decide tournament championships? Honestly, Doug, I thought it was one of the better played AAU or high school games that I've seen in really a long time.

It was at Bishop Gorman, and it was pretty much nearly sold out. And so there was a good crowd, but the intensity between the two was pretty high level. And Doug, we're talking about two programs that won a ton this year. You know, the Compton Magic won both Adidas, July tournaments, team takeover went undefeated in the EYBL, and then won the Nike Peach Jam. So it's, it was a pretty competitive affair. You know, I thought here's the thing that I thought best. Last year was Zion Williamson against Lanzo Ball, right?

That was the big matchup. But part of it was the circus of the balls, whereas this was just about ball, meaning basketball, right? This was just about two really good AAU teams made up of players. They're going to play college basketball. Some guys are risers. Some guys have always been rated highly more so than being about the circus. This one was more about basketball. Is that fair?

No question. And if you looked in the stand, that was pretty evident by the college coaches that were there. And, you know, I talked to a lot of people that were really impressed with the way that game went and the coaching in that game and the players. I mean, there was dudes on each team. I have a team takeover in Compton Magic. All those guys are going to play at the least mid-major basketball. And the coaching was really good. It was a high-level game.

And I walked away really impressed with the Compton Magic big men. The Compton Magic ends up winning by a couple in overtime. But their post players really were the difference, I think. And then, you know, Jared Lucas, he just committed to play for my brother and their staff at Oregon State. Johnny Zhu Zhang's a really, really good shooter. So who helped themselves the most? You mentioned on Kangu, of course, who's been a riser. The Mobley's course, that's why SC hired their dad.

They've been well regarded. Who else on that team benefited the most from this game and from their performance? That's tough because most of those guys were already pretty highly touted. I walked away impressed with Johnny Juzang. I think over the last year, he shored up his shot selection. and he's become a more efficient player. I noticed the start of that at the U-17 trials in mid-June, and I thought in this game, he took good shots.

He made a number of three-pointers. He hit a couple mid-range pull-ups. I thought he was one of the difference makers in it, and just his scoring and shooting ability. The other side, I mean, Tinker had some guys that played really well. Justin Moore committed to Villanova was really good as well. Jeremy Roach, I think, was the most. impressive player for takeover. He's a 2020 point guard, actually the number one point

guard in that class. So both sides have some guys that certainly helped their stock. Yeah, you mentioned Justin Moore, who's set to go to Villanova. That's where he's committed to. Villanova is interesting. You cover the Big East and part of the Biggie show on Fox Sports 1 as they've done an unbelievable job winning two or three national championships. And we've seen Josh Hart winning the Summer League MVP, how well regarded they are, all four of those guys go in the first round of the NBA draft. But there's a lot of turnover there. I know they're recruiting at a little bit higher level.

This is, it's kind of interesting. Like, how do they maintain their culture with so many new faces? Yeah, I mean, I think that's going to be a big factor. But I think, obviously, what we've seen from Jay Wright over the last couple years, I think he's certainly fit to handle that. They're bringing in a really good class. from 2018. In 2019, they've got

two top 70 type guys, Justin Moore and Eric Dickerson. Eric Dixon. But that 2018 Hall is really good. Devon Quinterly, a five-star guy. So crafty and creative, I think he comes right in. And you're not going to be able to replace Jalen Brunson.

But I think he fits how Villanova wants to play. He's got such a good feel for the game. He can set guys up. I think he'll come in and make an instant impact. and guys like Brandon Slater and Cole Swider will help them out on the perimeter. Slater's a big-time score at 6-6. He's got long arms. He can make shots. He's athletic. I mean, they're obviously lost a lot, and most of those guys, you're not going to be able to replace, Doug, as you know. But they're bringing in a good recruiting class with solid players that really fit Villanova. All right. Let's go through a couple of the 2019s. Okay, those are rising seniors. Is Cole Anthony the best player in that class? No, I think James Wiseman's the bet. Well, it could be the best player.

I think James Wiseman is the best prospect. And when you go to our rankings, that's what we're. And by, wait, Evan, real quick, Evan, by prospect, you mean NBA prospect or college? Because it's very interesting. Yeah. More so than, more so. I think he's, I think he's the best long-term prospect. I mean, he's pushing seven feet, he's got a seven-six-wing span.

He's mobile. He impacts the game on both ends of the court. He's really developing his offensive skill set. Unfortunately, he's been banged up, and he would have been on that U-17 team that won a gold medal, but he got hurt, and he's really played July kind of banged up as well. But don't get me wrong, I think Colanthine is great. We have number two, six-three athlete, as competitive as you'll find.

I mean, this kid gets after it on both ends of the court as well. I think he's more of a combo than he is an actual point right now. his mentality is always to score. Right. So if I had a knock on him, it would be, you know, go create for others. And him as well, he needs to sure up his shock selection a little as well. But he's obviously very, very gifted, very talented, can really score, and he's a high-level athlete. Am I crazy to think?

Jayden McDaniels, another top five guy. You know, he's from Washington. That's the kind of guy that Mike Hopkins has to get, right? The whole thing in Seattle is, if you keep the Seattle kids home when Seattle's up, now you've got a chance to win the league, now you've got a chance to build something special. Hop did a really good job in his first year, especially considering the turnover within the program, but doesn't McDaniels become one of those guys that he almost has to get? Yeah, Jayden McDaniels is a priority recruit for sure.

I think it's a tough task, not only because he's the elite recruit that I think Blue Bloods are starting to sniff around with, there's a relationship with San Diego State that goes way back with his brother being there. But you're right. I mean, Mike Hopkins and his staff have to prioritize him. He's the type of guy that could really help them shift that program quickly. And he's – we were talking about best players in the class. I mean, this kid, three, four years from now, we're going to be looking back. It's special because he's made a major leap from where he was this time last year to now.

And his skill set is continuing to develop. he's becoming more confident, he's shooting the ball better. He's just making improvements across the board. It feels like Tyrese Maxie has taken his game to a higher level this summer, whether it's with Team USA or playing an AAU basketball, and he feels like that's the type of guy that Kentucky builds an entire recruiting class round, no, because of his style apply?

He certainly fits that, yes. I think what I like about Tyrese is versatile. You can play him as a two-guard. You can play him in a common. roll, you can put the ball on his hands, and he can go create for others. I mean, his biggest strength is his ability to score. He does that really well. He can get to the rim and take contact and finish.

He can create shots for himself, pull up from mid-range. He can make off the catch-threes. I think that's an area he could still improve, but he's just wired up to get buckets. Nico Mannion's a kid who, he could have been 2020 instead of announced, I think, last week that he's going to graduate this year, a talented point guard. from, you know, Pinnacle in Arizona. There's lots of talk that he could be the guy that Shaw Miller, as he tries to rebuild his program,

rebuilds a guy like Nico Mannion. What's your sense? I know it's still really early in these things now, especially with the elite recruits. A lot of these guys are deciding late. What's your sense on Nico Mannion? I know why he moved up his date of graduation. He graduated 18 instead of 19,

and it's not going to hurt him in any way. But is this to go to Arizona or something else at play? I think there's a good chance he could go there. I mean, I think it's them and Duke. Villanova's also in the mix, and Jay Wright was out in L.A. last Sunday to see him. But Arizona's done a really good job for a long time recruiting him. They've made him a priority.

I don't know that Sean Miller's missed many of his games. He was at the same event, L.A. on Sunday. They've just been after him for so long. I think it would be pretty deflating for, for Sean Miller and his staff if they missed out on him. Because I think they have been the favorite. But anytime Duke comes sniffing around and jump in the recruitment, it's dangerous. So they've still got to close it out.

Okay, so let me ask you. Okay, so there's Cole Anthony, and I know that his dad obviously is close with Coach Kay. There's talk of Cole Anthony and Duke. Would they both go there? And then I guess the second part to that is, look, Jeff Capel did a great job of spearheading a lot of their recruiting. I know Coach Kay is still there. really young, active quality staff, but it's different when Capel's not there. First your sense of could Mannion and Anthony both go to Duke and then has Duke's recruiting

will change at all without Jeff Capel? Well, here's the thing. Cole Anthony has made it clear that he's not making his college choice for a long time. So this is the worst point guard class I think I've ever evaluated. It might be the worst overall class I've ever evaluated, but point guards especially, it's bad. so you can't afford to wait around for Cole until May. You've got to go out and get one of these big-time guys,

and if maybe you can talk him into playing with the other guy you get, great. But I just think that you can't really wait around. So I think Duke's going to or has started to prioritize Nico Mannion. Would they love to have Cole Anthony? I think they definitely would love to have Cole Anthony. two coexist in the same backcourt. I don't know the answer to that. I think that's an interesting scenario

to see how it all plays out. And obviously, you mentioned Jeff Capel, anytime you lose a guy of that caliber, that was so good at building relationships and brought a lot of really good recruits to the table. I think it's a loss. Obviously, Chris Carrow was hired in his place. And, you know, Nate James was a guy that went out

and got Zion Williamson last year. John Shire has been the appointment. man on a guy like Jason Tatum. So it's not like these other guys having gotten players. But like I said, anytime you lose somebody a caliber of Jeff Capewell, it hurts. I know you want to go back, duck back into the gym. May I ask you really quickly. Zion Williamson's like a YouTube sensation, right?

A dunking machine. Yep. But he's a little bit heavy. I mean, I think, I think at his best he'll be a, he's got a chance to be an undersized kind of athletic four, but you really got to shoot and guard in order to do that. And the one thing about Coach Kay is, you know, they kind of, to wave the white flag and they played zone last year. What's your sense of

of what you think we'll see from Zion Williamson when he plays for Duke next season? Well, I think we're going to see the electric athlete. I think we're going to see a guy that actually has a pretty good field for the game and can really pass. I think Win motivated, he's a really good rebounder. I think one of the things that caused me to take a step back with him last year was he didn't always play hard.

and he was rarely ever in great shape. I think the thing that we're going to see from him at Duke is, one, they're going to get him in shape. And two, I'm curious to see what kind of effort he gives forth on the court. He was known for those dunks and the highlights in transition. There's some other stuff there in terms of his passing. I think he does that at a pretty good level, but he's going to have to improve his jump shot.

And last viewing in high school, it was a way of way. Evan Daniels, check out his podcast called The Sidelines with Evan Daniels. Fox Sports, Fox Sports.com, of course, a great way to pick on. Or just follow him on Twitter. He's got all the information. Get back in the gym, get back covering those games plus Team USA. Thanks for joining us. Hey, thanks for having me on, Doug.

I appreciate it, man. All right, let's continue that conversation about prep hoops and kind of the LeBron takeover. I think it's going to be fascinating. A guy who for more than 30 years has covered Southern California, AAU basketball. He knows the college scene. frankly knows the NBA scene, just really knows as a great feel for the game. You go to prephoops.com or follow them on Twitter at Joel Fran. Hoops, Joel Francisco joins us here in the All Ball podcast.

Look, you're the perfect guy for this because we've seen the ball family, but we've seen, and maybe that was kind of the first of its kind. We've seen other big AAU teams. You go back to, you know, before me even when Rich Goldberg would have his teams, the Mid Valley ARC, they'd fly guys in, and, you know, Jason Kidd would suddenly be playing with Southern California players, and the Tracy McGrady, Derek Martin days, and then Izzy Washington had his slam and jam teams. But LeBron James coming to Southern California with two teenage boys, it feels like that's going to forever change the dynamic of AAU basketball.

Am I overselling it? No, I completely agree. I don't believe that we got a taste of it with the ball family. You know, I never in the 30 years of covering this from when I started doing with Tracy Murray and the following that he had all the way through, you know, these last 30 years. And I'd never seen anything like the ball situation, you know, going to gyms. It was a circus. And then what happened last night, you know, with LeBron coming in the gym, and I would figure, like, you know, have some hindsight in the fact that, okay, here comes LeBron Jr. We have social media.

The gym was packed and they had it in the small auxiliary gym. and I guess if some fan came in, started ripping LeBron, and it just turned into like a mini-Mayle, and then they canceled the game, and it's like, what are they going to do in the future here? You know, like if he decides to go to Sierra Canyon, Brentwood High School, you know, I'm really intrigued to see, you know,

from a safety standpoint, you know, what is going to happen with Southern California basketball in the future, and AAU for that matter. It's fascinating because there's a lot of parts of LeBron which are really interesting. He's done things. He's cleared his own path. Most of which I like, some of I don't. It's inarguable, though, that in terms of being an involved parent, especially in comparison to, you know, Larry Bird never had a young boy in AAU. Michael Jordan had two kids, but he was, we don't remember him ever kind of being around.

I called a couple of their high school games, and he was never around. Like, he's actually an involved parent. He actually, you know, he knows the other kids' names. He interacts with the team. Occasionally he helps coach. like it is something and but my thing is that not only do you have that but then you have the hey how are you going to keep a kid on your team if brawny says hey dad i want him on my team they decide they want and lebron james picks at the phone says hey do you want to play with my son and oh yeah by the way you're going to get all the lebron gear you want like no one's going to say no to that are they oh no i would think not i mean him coming to l.A is going to completely you know i mean we could see another level of of, I mean, we're going to see something a lot of different than the balls here, but yeah, I mean, you know, the way kids transfer nowadays,

it's ridiculous. You know, like, CIF said something like 16,000 kids transferred. That was even last year of multiple sports. But now with Braun coming in, and you know how he manages his own NBA teams, yeah, you could see him, you could start creating

these, you know, all-star AAU teams and, you know, wherever school he is, his son ends up at. where we're going to be pulling kids from everywhere, maybe. Yeah, you mentioned all the transfers in the CIF, and I know this happens everywhere as a national podcast. I think people are sitting there nod in their heads and saying, yeah, we have lots of problems with kids.

It's kind of on steroids here in Southern California. Do you think the player movement in the NBA is the cause of the player movement in AAU in high school basketball, or do you think it's the other way around where kids were always moving around AAU in high school, and now they become pros, and now so they don't get as tied to a place or to a team as they used to. Which is the chicken and which is the egg? I would say the latter.

I would think since these kids now are playing against each other, and they all know each other now since probably what you think, 12, 14s, where they're playing in these national-based tournaments. They're becoming friends, and they keep these connections going. They're never in college enough to create rivalries. So they just go from this AAU team and quickly for the NBA And like you can have a bond

forming his team in Miami and that And it just escalated from there And so I just I really believe it started with With club basketball With AAU basketball, wherever you want to call it With these guys that have become known You know, they've known each other for so long And they become friends

And they develop these friendships And now you have you add in ultra media And it's created a perfect storm What's your sense of what's going to happen? I know that many people in your profession, and I think you tweeted out something which is great, which is like, hey, the new rules potentially could still have the tournaments, just the coaches wouldn't be allowed of the tournaments,

which would be great for you as a professional evaluator that people respect for more than 30 years. Like, just because Coach Kay can't sit there and have his assistant's bird dog a kid doesn't mean that you can't evaluate him. Any guess as to what the rules end up being for the future of the July recruiting period? Um, the what I can see, somebody mentioned that, let's say, the biggest one, the P-FEM would move to August or something. I said, well, that would be impossible for my take because so many schools now, including in seven California, are starting school in August. So I could see a lot of these tournaments moving to June while the NCAA has their camps, whatever, in July.

And you have, you know, evaluator like me are the best of both work. And this is all that in June and then in July. And I feel like the number one thing for me that I, you know, I've had an issue with, you know, restricting coaches from coming out. I feel, for me, it's the most important month. I would rather watch a kid play, for me personally, with his high school team, see how he leads, see how he carries his team. You know, I feel like that's, I think I can get a greater sense of who this kid is

rather than seeing, you know, in these multiple club games you see in July. You bring up a great point. You know, my brother, as you know, is recruited at all the different levels, mostly in California, and then, of course, to Oregon State for the last four. years. And I don't, I actually think they're working the opposite way of the way they should. You should have assistance that are allowed to go out as often as they want, right? Just go out and if your job is to evaluate and recruit a kid, why are we putting limits on it? I mean, the fact is that I understand, like my dad used to tell us stories of him, you know, sleeping over at a kid's house that they were

trying, you know, and sitting on a kid that they have, like, okay, that's a little bit overboard, but it's like limiting texts. It's like when you couldn't text a kid. kid. Like, look, if a kid doesn't want, doesn't want you to text him, he'll just block you or he'll just delete it. If a kid does, if you gets creeped out by a guy keep coming to his game, he'll just, you'll end up wearing the kid out and he'll, it'll turn him off. I just, let us, let recruiting assistants do their job. You want to restrict head coaches so they're on campus more. If you want to make sure that there's always a coach on campus, like, that's fine, but this idea that somehow you're protecting assistant coaches, all right, maybe August is dark.

Nobody can see anybody in August. But outside of that, isn't it fair to say like, hey, just let them recruit, don't pay your players, don't change their grades, and kind of the rest, just almost a free market sort of recruiting system? Yeah, and I agree with that, too. And the fact that we, I believe that we implement some system like that, we'll cut back on the multiple, you know, the ridiculous numbers we're seeing in kids that are going to schools, they're being over-recruited, and they end up bouncing back to various other schools, you know, for a lower level because in hindsight, these coaches don't have a great feel, you know,

for who they're recruiting. I mean, they get such a limited time. Yep. There's a billion games going on in July. Joel, am I crazy? But I've always thought, you know, we talk about transfers. and the reason that players transfer. We always believe it's because the kid wants more,

the parent wants more, and that's some of it. But a good portion of it is the coach doesn't exactly know what he's getting, and the player doesn't exactly have a great feel of what he's getting into because we're limiting the relationship and the length and the quality of the relationship between who's recruiting and who's being recruited. Is that a fair? Like, I know that's absolutely fair. And the thing is, when I talk to kids at camp,

I say, hey, I think what they missed the point on, and I think parents do too, if you get caught up in the highest level, and it's like, you need to find the best fit for your kid. That's the bottom line. And here's a kid that's getting recruited, let's say, at LMU, Pepperdine, or whatever, and then he goes off in one game and Washington jumps in the picture. Well, I'm going to go to Washington now. You know, instead of saying, no way, the Pepperdine system fits me better.

that's the kind of situation they get fallen into. All right. You've seen a lot of kids for a lot of years. Give me the kid you've seen this spring and summer that's most impressive to you. Impressive player? I might have to go out west. Here's a guy that it's Evan Mobley, his older brother, Isaiah Mobley's going to USC that USC hired the dad recently in the spring.

Evan Mobley, for me, he's a 2020 kid. he's basically a combination. I'm not saying he's the next, Durant, or Garnett type, but he's kind of a combination of the two in terms of he's got perimeter skills. He's got, I saw Kevin Ronnet in high school, he's his quick off the floor,

he's got an in-between game. He's got, he's got the whole package. This is going to be a matter of strength and terms of him going forward, but I would be shocked if he's not a certified NBA player down the road. Two or three years ago, Cassius Stanley was that young player coming up into high school basketball that everyone was talking about. He's still very, very well regarded, but not nearly at the level that he was previously.

You know, he's top 20 to top 30, maybe top 40 nationally. What type of impact do you think, Cassius Stanley, who is at Syracan, in which one of the schools, the big private schools in Southern California, he was originally at Harvard Westlake, anyway, that we were talking about earlier if people were out of the area. What happened to Cassius Stanley and what type of impact? fact do you think he'll have when he ultimately plays in college? Well, I mean, for me, Cassie's family is going to have. I think when you see him in a club situation in a wide open game, he's an NBA athlete. There's no question about that.

But for me, you know, for someone that's been doing a long time, and I'm sure you would get the same feel for him if you watched him actually in a game. He has improved, but there's not something he could totally depend on in a game when it slows down. his jump shot is still needs to get more consistent, his decision-making, you know, every pigeon holder needs to be a point guard because everybody needs to be a point guard now. And I'm sorry, you play the position.

It takes a certain feel for the game to be that player. And so I think now, if someone just allow him to be a two-guard and work on that skill set, then I think he could be a very good college player and I'm probably a pro. But right now, for me, he's got some areas he really needs to grow. It's going to be fascinating to see if he does grow because it was a little bit too much

too soon. There is a big guy in Southern California. I would love to have your opinion on. A kid named Carl Lewis at Linwood High School, 6-9-250. He's put up some big numbers this year. But, you know, like, look, we're in the age of the big man that doesn't score at the low block. We're in the age of you've got to be a roller and a finisher at the rim and a rim protector or a stretch five. what's the prospects like for a kid like Carl Lewis who's a rising junior?

You know, Carl Lewis, he has some stuff off the court that needs to be taken care of. He's got a long way to go in terms of becoming a basketball player. Yes, he's built like Carl Malone. But in terms of, you know, skill, fundamental, he hasn't spent a lot of time. you know, he's done a lot of other stuff going on, to put it bluntly and, put it violating, in fact, that I don't think he's really had a lot of time to work on those aspects of the game. So, for me, naturally graded, he's one of these guys that, you know, played at Linwood High School, didn't play against, you know, the greatest competition in terms of,

so there was no one that can handle him, but so there's certain areas in his game that he really needs to take care of, as well as some other aspects of his life, but come together before he's able to play college, in my opinion. That's great, great feedback from Joel Francisco. He's been doing this over 30 years. It's a great job in Southern California. You follow him on Twitter. You go to prephoops.com.

Last thing, I want to ask you about Kwai Leonard, because he, look, he was a Gatorade player of the year, but he played MLK and out in Riverside. He was a 6-5-66 postman who's become a top-five by many people's accounts, third best player in the NBA. and because he's super, super quiet, we don't know what to make of him. What's your assessment as a guy who saw him at his infancy as a player,

grow into a star at San Diego State, a superstar in the NBA, and now trying to, we think, manipulate his way back to Los Angeles. What's your assessment of kind of the situation, how he's handled it, and what the ultimate end game is? watching Kauai in high school I never thought he'd reach the level that he's at right now I thought he's a high major recruit

top 50 national prospect for sure because length he's got the biggest hands but you know something he's always been a no nonsense player no emotion and just go out there and I'm going to be productive and do my job at both ends of the floor however this year was the story that I've heard I become skeptical, you know, about, okay, where, in fact,

and I don't want to, you know, character assassinate this guy, but I heard he was able to play, and he chose not to play. And so that, for me, that brings up red flags, what direction, who's handling his situations now, because this is not the same kid that I talked to in high school and, you know, got to know through the AUC and all that stuff. So I'm kind of curious to see, really intrigued to see how he does in Toronto this year

and really watch his approach to the game because we all know what he can do on the basketball, arguably what, the best player in the game today. So I'm very intrigued to see what he goes to this year at Toronto. What about DeRosen? Like, I do feel like DeRosen somehow,

and he was bad in the playoff series against LeBron. The Cavaliers. Yeah, he just, he wasn't good. He was fantastic in their first round series. Fantastic. I saw him at the Garden. This was two years ago.

He dropped 39 at the Garden. I was like, damn. DeMarre Rosen, he is the closest to, he's got a Kobe style of offensive game. It's just, you know, now there's so much, the three-point shot is so much more important. How do you think his personality will mesh with Greg Popovich? Well, it's going to be, I'm, to be honest with you, I'm excited for him. You know, being in that system because, I mean, DeMar's another kid, kind of like, in a way, quiet, where he's quiet. he's not, you know, he's not real

that assertive personality out there, but he just goes about his business, take care of it. I'm really intrigued to see how he fits in the pop system. I think he's going to become, you know, it continued to be his efficient self, but like you said, the key to his game is, which really has to come is his three-point shot.

And he's been very good in the mid-range area, but, like you said, it's the mid-range shot is it usable as it was, you know, 10, 15 years ago. So I'm really intrigued to see how he fits in the pop system. I think it's going to be fine, because I think he's a good kid, and I think he wants to, you know, wants to be taught. And I think it's, uh, I think it's going to be turned out to be a good situation for him.

I do, too. It's weird, though, that Lamarcus Aldrich is a mid post and a low post kind of turn around, jump shot score. And then you got Demarne Rosen who's great in the mid range. Like that goes counter to everything in 2018 that the spurts were kind of ahead of the curve on, but that's what they're going to have to live with. So it'll be, it'll be fascinating to see. And then, you know, it's, it's interesting, you know, think about Tracy Murray and and the volume of threes he shot when you first started in this business.

and what he would be now, how valuable a weapon now, he would have to guard better than he did then now in order to stay on the floor. But it's amazing how even when I came up in the mid-90s, we used to criticize big guys. Stop shooting jump shots and get inside and scored to low block, right? Yeah, absolutely. And point guards were told, you know, stop,

don't you pull-up threes, get into that mid-range pull-up game. And now, of course, that's disappeared because of analytics and the realization that it's smarter to play the other way, Got to be fascinating for you to have to evaluate guys in the ever-evolving game of basketball. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was really interesting. You know, Gino Stragonas, you know who he is in terms of you running all these camps. He's one of the eight you grewers out for the last 30 years.

He had a Pangellasal American camp in June, and there was a plethora of guys in the 6-8-69 range, and these guys are pulling up, and Jack and 3s, and their shot looks good. It's almost like, you know, with the Bron. saw LeBron, freshman sophomore in high school, and he just knew he was different. He was kind of a little bit of magic, a little bit of Michael,

you know, built like Colin. Well, he wasn't built like Carl Malone until now, but when you watch Kevin Durant, I see these, these kids are seeing these types of stars, and they're implementing those schools,

those skills early on in their game, and now we're just seeing this game transformed into this, you know, 3 and D. But, you know, some, I'm old school, I like to point cards, you still pass and facilitates like you did in high school,

and I'm still the big guy, get your button post, you know, be a rim protector, you know, fill the lane, and I'm still a fan of the mid-range game. I think that's key for me. That's going to be key for Lanzo. You know, Lanzo struggled in the paint area, and if he can just implement that and get that going and get stronger, his game's going to go to the level,

and I think that will just bring out his shot to become better, too, in a more consistent matter. So, I mean, I think the mid-range game, and I still think guys could still play in the back, you know, with the back, the basket come, too. Maybe I'm too old school, but I honestly don't think you're wrong. I mean, look at, look at the NBA finals, look at, or look at the Golden State Warriors, like, look, do they shoot a ton of threes?

Absolutely. When they needed a bucket, they got the ball to Kevin Durant, either in the post or a lot of pull-up, mid-range jump shots, you know, like, if the best of the best can make 70% of those, then you still take it. And I do think that, I think that, I think that the- Bronz done, or what he's had to do, you know, he's been more. effective when he's got his back to the basket and he can pass, you know, that's where you think about the Olympic team, that's where Susque put LeBron at the high post.

He facilitated, you know, using his passing acumen. So, I mean, I know. I still in all areas of the game today still. Well, look, I'm fascinated. I mean, basketball, it's not that basketball has lacked energy in the West Coast, but with the Lakers potentially being good and with, you know, LeBron and his son bringing attention to A.U. basketball, there's been a ton of talent here, obviously, with the private school is out there recruiting.

I think now it'll be hyped up and it'll be great for your job. It'd be great for us as well. Joel Francisco, follow him on Twitter at Joel Fran Hoops. Go to prephoops.com. He's been a basketball scout for over 30 years. He's the SoCal scouting coordinator for ESPN. He does an amazing job. Joel, thanks so much for joining us here on the All Ball podcast.

Appreciate it, Doug. Appreciate it a lot. Have a good one. There's just kind of a sense of that's what July is about. I mentioned Kauai earlier. he's not participating. He's not playing. And he's saying, well, I need to transition to Toronto.

And I just, look, I think Toronto did well in the trade. I do. I mean, if you substitute out to Marr Rosen, who I like more than other people like. But you put Kauai Leonard in there. And they got a legit shot. Make one last push in the east. If not, scrap it, start again. But what's, you know, Greg Popovich has done nothing but take the high road.

it's not like they're going to grind you into the ground when you're playing in Vegas. You haven't played all year. I kind of feel like he needs that. But Kauai Leonard is beating to his own drum. And for a guy who has earned, not been given, earned so much respect in NBA circles for playing both ends, steadily improving his jump shot, which was, he was not a guard. He was a center coming up. And the big questions were.

could he ever, you know, be a decent three-point shooter? And he's become a very good and a good ball handler. He's just, he's undone some of the great things, some of the respect that he's gained. It's easy to get, it's not hard to gain it back. You get on the floor, you start playing for Toronto, you play the right way, even if you want to make your way to the Lakers next year. But I just, I'm okay with guys not playing for pop who played the whole year, you know, or played for USA basketball in the past.

But when you're one of the best players in the game, you only played nine games this year, and you should be fully healthy. You pass a physical. Go and play. Go and play. Try and take the high road the way Greg Popovich has taken the high road. I don't think that's a great look.

Last thing in regards to the NBA, you saw this with Carmelo Anthony, who said, you know, basically it was a bad fit in Oklahoma City because he didn't have enough time. All he had was training camp in the season. Like, what more do you need more than training camp in the season? How much more time? Like, is there some boardroom?

Yeah, was there hoodie mellow workouts that could have that you could have transitioned better to Oklahoma City? I respect Carmelo Anthony because he was the best three-level score in the NBA for a good seven or eight years. He was an amazing offensive player. But he didn't keep himself consistently good enough shape. He wasn't a good teammate. And more than anything, you know, as you mature, as you get to be an adult, I've said this. There's three things that adults do that kids don't do. Adults will never turn down a nap.

Adults will order vegetables and adults point in when something goes wrong. They say, my bad. I made a mistake. Carmelo Anthony has never said, you know, look, that didn't work at Oklahoma City and it's my fault. I didn't buy in defensively. I struggled to buy it offensively. I wasn't willing to come off the bench. That's my bad.

Even if it wasn't all his fault, taking more blame than you should is the smarter path than the more mature path. But we've created, he's becoming like an Alan Iverson where his, his NBA career may be over sooner than it should because of his inability to find a Carmelo Anthony 2.0. And then as far as the Kevin Durant tweets with C.J. McCollum, we talked about him a little bit earlier. Kevin Durant has, he was quoted earlier today as saying, let me pull up this quote. Kind of a fascinating quote from Kevin Durant. he said, here's the quote, to Anthony Slater. I know you think I'm sensitive, but I'm just somebody who's tired of holding shit in. So apparently Kevin Durant, he's mad as hell and he's not taking it anymore.

And now when people talk trash to him, he's just going to let it, which is great. Like, we want dudes with no filter. The problem is a lot of the things he's saying are going counter to either one things he's done in the past and to the way he's handled himself. did have a, he did have burner accounts in which he defended himself in the past. He did, he was the guy who said, oh, everybody wants to go to the Knicks and the Lakers. He didn't agree with that in the past. And now he goes to the Warriors. And it's, it's really interesting.

Some guys, the social media thing, people don't react to your tweets the way that you think when you press send. You may think you're joking. You may even do hashtag sarcasm and it doesn't, I'm as guilty of that as anybody. But the Kevin Durant thing is fascinating. He kind of finding his. way as he goes. Meanwhile, he's a two-time NBA finals MVP who's fighting with other NBA players or just random dudes on Twitter is one of the most NBA 2018 things I've ever heard of. It's bizarre.

It's bizarre. All right. We'll talk more NBA. We'll wrap up the July recruiting period. Also talk some USA basketball next week on the All Ball podcast. Thanks so much for listening. Make sure you tell your friends, subscribe, download, and rate it. I'm Doug Gottlieb. Listen to the radio show Daily, 12 to 3 Pacific time, 3 to 6 Eastern time, this is all by. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the

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