The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb - All Ball - Why Zion should finish out the season; Boston's Gordon Hayward problem; College hoops breakdown; Guest: FS1 CBB Analyst Nick Bahe

Episode Date: March 2, 2019

This week, Gottlieb explains the upside to Zion Williamson finishing the season at Duke, and why Gordon Hayward isn't fitting in with the Celtics. Doug also talks college hoops with FS1 analyst Nick Bahe and discuss his basketball background. Subscribe here to the All Ball Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So we get to him in a second. Let me give a couple of quick thoughts in regard to Zion. Williamson. I like that Kobe Bryant finally stepped out and said, like, you made a commitment, you went to go play in college, finish up. This is not crossing the freeway dangerous. You know, oh, he could, he could suffer severe injury. I think the, I think the issue is, there is a sense, you can tell me if I'm wrong, you feel free to tweet at me at Godleaf show. There's a sense from some people that, well, Zion shouldn't play for Duke because makes money off Zion.

My point has always been that colleges make money off of the success of all their students. And the one difference is with Zion, yes, Duke would make money off him, off of his name and his likeness and his talents and potentially win a national championship, another one for Coach Kay. Here's the payback. He'd be part of a legacy of champions at Duke. He'd be potentially playing the final four. we act like everyone in the world knows who has seen Zion Williamson play.

Let me explain this to you. There's lots of people that don't watch college basketball. College basketball's ratings, I think the one he got hurt in when he played 30 seconds in. Yeah, that was, that got a 3.5. 3.5. That is lower than the rating for the Pro Bowl. So we act like everybody watches college basketball. Everybody knows who he is.

He's giving me the number one pick. The chance to play for a national championship is playing for 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10 times as many people, which makes your brand, the personal knowledge of who you are even bigger. He would be a huge star coming into the NBA draft, which he may already be, but it only cements it the more mainstream America sees him play in the NCAA term and play for the biggest name in college basketball, which is Duke. So this idea that only Duke makes money off of Zion is not true. It is actually a very, very fair trade, even for somebody's talented to Zion Williams.

And there is something to the commitment. We didn't ask you to commit for the rest of your life. This is not the Naval Academy or any of the service academies, where if you play for two years, you've got to serve for four. Like, no, we don't do that. Simply said, simply stated, hey, you committed to play when you're in college basketball? finish the year. If you're healthy enough to play, then play.

If he's not healthy, I'm okay with him sitting until he's right, but he's just a sprained knee, and I think he just scared himself. Now, what shoes he wears and how he plays, much more interesting. And if he doesn't play well, he'll get the past because people will say, well, he's tentative. He's worried about his shoe ripping. But to the, he shouldn't play. Look, I hate to break it to you, but when he was playing in AAU basketball and he played in Las Vegas a couple years ago.

and he played against La Mello Mall. Guess what? They made money off of him. They did. And he got exposure, which helped start the building of his brand. Same thing with YouTube. And in the end,

it'll all even out, and he'll be worth a couple million by the end of this basketball season. He'll be worth, you know, tens of millions within the next year or two, and potentially, if he continues to improve, hundreds of millions.

Let's also remember that unlike football, where if you're not playing, you can just be training. You're playing basketball and you're not playing with the team. You're going to be training to keep your weight down. You can just as easily get hurt. What happens then? If you're so injury riddled and he's not, what happens then?

Let me quickly get to the NBA and something I've noticed with the Boston Celtics. Gordon Hayward was trending the way of being a perennial all-star. He'd only gotten one all-star game, but he left the friendly confines of Utah and Quinn Snyder, who I think had done an amazing job and still is doing an amazing job as a head coach. He'd left Utah to go to Boston. Of course, as we know, a couple minutes into his first NBA game with the Boston Celtics, he breaks his leg against the Cleveland Cavaliers. There's been a lot of people talking about whether or not the Celtics are better or worse with Kyrie Irving.

And part of the issue is we look at raw data and we don't look at context, right? whether he plays or he doesn't play, we don't point out the fact that the games that he's taken off, the most part, have been games in which they can have a couple starters sit out and still win. Right. Like, congratulations, he didn't play against the Hawks or he didn't play against the Magic,

or he didn't play against, but he plays against the big boys. That's how they manage him as he's coming back from the multiple knee operations that he had that ended his season prematurely. what's not discussed is the Gordon Hayward effect. Hayward would make so much money that there's, like anything, inherent curiosity, maybe even jealousy in that locker room. And if you watch,

they're just not, those guys are just not in on Hayward considering the amount of minutes and more minutes than shots he gets. Like Gordon Hayward is getting 26 minutes a game, 26 minutes a game, which is equal to Jalen Brown. And Jalen Brown continues to be a bit. better player. You know, whether it's Jason Tatum or Gordon Hayward or Terry Rozier or Marcus Smart. Like, look, Marcus Smart got paid in this last offseason. So some of it's not about pay

in that type of ego, but just the idea that Hayward played for Brad, I'm sure, translates poorly in that locker room. He's Brad's guy. And he is, you know, a former Butler guy who did break his ankle, isn't the same player, fighting his way to get back. And so while we look for for reasons, curious reasons why the Celtics chemistry is not good as of now, there's a couple reasons. One, I think, is we cover the NBA far more ferocity than we ever did previously.

But two, I think Gordon Hayward and the effect of his contract, the effect of his minutes, and the fact that he played for Brad Stevens in college, was recruited by Brad Stevens. It leads you to believe, however untrue that he's like, he's like Brad Stephen's son. He's always going to take care of him. And that creates jealousy.

And that makes it so that there's not great chemistry. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

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He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball, like, after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Dude. Hey, Wreck, Mom, I want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Because it's pretty obvious that the chemistry at now, as of now, is off with the Boston Celtics. Doesn't mean they can't turn that into a positive, but as of now, it's off. The Celtics thing is interesting because of Hayward, because Kyrie is still trying to figure out how to be a leader. but we also have to remember how we cover this thing. And I would guess that as you get towards the playoffs, the rotations will shorten, the minutes for Hayward,

if the production's not there, will wane, and the chemistry will get better. This has actually happened for years in the NBA. We just didn't cover it nearly as thoroughly. I know I've been doing this for 16 years. We didn't cover it like this. So I'm not selling my Brad Stevens as a genius stock.

I still think the Lakers make the play. playoffs. And I'm fascinated to see how all the rotations come together. But it wouldn't surprise me if Portland ends up, I mean, see Portland. If Toronto ends up coming out of the east, they've been close before. And now you add Kauai Leonard, who's an absolute killer at both ends of the floor. And it wouldn't surprise me at the Golden State Warriors, in spite of the fact the West is not as good as it's been struggle because Demarcus cousin still doesn't have lift. They're different defensively with him. And their bench isn't as good as it's been. BetRiver's Sportsbook wants to invite you to discover the complete sports betting experience. The foundation of that experience is a massive number of betting options on nearly every regular sporting event around the world. Add on top of that live streaming of sports every day. There's almost always a live match to watch on BetRer's Sportsbook right in your phone. BetRivers features top-tier customer service.

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Danpatrick.com, FoxportsRadio.com. Some equipment described is optional. Here's what we do things here. I want to talk this year in college basketball, but I also want to talk about you and basketball. You grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska? Correct. Yep.

Is there a neighborhood in Lincoln? Like, I know nothing of Lincoln other than I land and the only place. I think it's kind of an underrated place, but I know nothing about Lincoln. Where'd you grow up? So I grew up across the street from Frank Solich. How about that? How about that little nugget for you?

So Frank Solich, like when he would, you know, when you're out playing around, like, football, basketball, whatever, in your front yard or in the driveway, like when Frank Solich turned, when his suburban turned into my cul-de-sac, man, it was, it was on to try to prove to Frank Solich that, you know, you were an athlete. But, yeah, it was, it's, that's, that's football, uh, country. As you know, Doug. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's Nebraska football 24-7, 365. My dad played, uh, wingback for Nebraska. my uncle played wide receiver at Nebraska. Like there's Nebraska football, not only in my family, but in the area, but there's also a ton of coaching. My grandpa was a legendary high school coach and athletic director. There's a at Fremont High School in Fremont, Nebraska.

The gym's named after him. And so my uncle coach is high school basketball. My brother's a high school basketball coach. So there was always a ton of basketball also around me. And that's what I fell in love with. I was an all-state quarterback in high school as well, but I was just, you know, it is. When you fall in love with the game of basketball, man, it's just, you can't shake it. I know.

It was a fun time. I tried to explain it to my wife. My son's nine, and last year he was eight, and he was not very good. We had moved from Connecticut, and we had had a tennis court that I had played basketball on as well. And so he was decent, but I was working so much in the afternoons and a weekend. weekends that I wasn't able to really coach him. And, you know, he didn't go to clinics or whatever.

He didn't grow up going to camps. And so when we got out to California, he was kind of overwhelmed a little bit. And I played him up. And he didn't love it. And then now he's gotten where he's kind of good at. He's better. He's not good, but he's better. And now he, I mean, now it's addicted.

You know, he's all over it. And it's amazing because he's playing catch up just in things he doesn't know. But I get you. Okay, so why didn't you go to Nebraska? Like, who was at Nebraska when you finished up in high school? It was like 2001 or 2002? You got done with high school. I graduated in 2003.

It was Barry Collier. Okay. Was the head coach at the time. He sounded perfect for you. He was a two car garage, two parent, and the home guy. He loved state champions. Like, he was, that was perfect for you. I know.

You would have thought. I have my little theories on things, you know, I mean, when you don't get, because I didn't really get recruited that hard by Nebraska at all. And I had this theory in my mind, and I'm just going to throw it at you. So when Coach Collier took the job, he immediately signed three kids from the state in Nebraska. So high school team in mind, Jake Mewheisen, who was a really good player. Yeah, and then it signed Wes Wilkinson, Jason Derruso, So, check got four, and then he signed Roy Inwright.

So he signed one kid from Grand Island, Nebraska, two kids from Omaha. So he takes the job, and within, you know, a year or two, all of a sudden, he's got four kids, Doug, four kids from the state of Nebraska. And in my mind, I always wondered if he thought, man, am I really, because I mean, Nebraska high school basketball is great. I wonder if he thought in his mind, I'm getting a little Nebraska heavy, and I think I maybe need to diversify this a little bit. it was either that or you just didn't think he didn't like my game that much and what's funny is when i see him now so i do obviously with the big east and fox i do a lot of butler games and now coach collier and i have a really good relationship but i'm not going to lie when i when i was uh when i was

coming out i was i was hurt and and so he didn't offer you he didn't offer you he didn't offer you he didn't all Doug he did not offer me a scholarship he offered me to to walk on uh and yeah that was That was it. He didn't recruit me that hard. So you, who recruited you from Roy's staff? Roy, Joe Holliday. Joe Holliday was the, yeah, great guy. And what's funny, and it's amazing how much things have changed,

and I'm sure you can relate to this. Like, I remember me and my high school coach, we sat down, and this was VHS tapes. This was still when VHS tapes were a thing. And we made, I made a list of 15 schools, and we made put two or three of my games on 15 VHS tapes, and just sent them out, right? And, you know, we got responses from like almost everyone, either like, hey, we think, you know,

we like you, we think you're mid-major, or, hey, we're pretty loaded at the combo guard, two guard. But that's how Joe Holliday in Kansas found me, and he watched my film and liked me, and then everything kind of took off from there, which it's interesting to say out loud in hindsight now that, I mean, Kansas recruited me exponentially harder than Nebraska did. And I mean, Kansas was, you know, coming off back-to-back final fours and all that. And so what was hard was, you know, when I went back and played, when I was at Kansas and went back and played Nebraska, it was one of the most ruthless two hours of basketball I ever played in. I mean, anytime I caught the ball, they were chanting Trader and booing me.

You're like, dude, they didn't offer me a scholarship. You wanted me to walk the mic. So I wanted to call time out and grab the mic and explain all that. people. But, you know, I mean, all is well. It ends well. I mean, and the journey ultimately led me back to Creighton, which was a really good fit for me to play for Coach Alman. What was Roy like to play for? Well, see, that's the thing. Roy left right as I was coming in. So I, so my whole, my, my college career was. So you're behind Aaron Miles. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. So I, yeah, so I come in and I commit to play for Roy. Roy, Roy leaves for Carolina.

And then Bill Self comes in and absolutely love Bill Self. I mean, he is, you know, I mean, I think you're pretty close with him. He's, I mean, an awesome dude, unbelievable coach. And so I come in and in United States, when you play for someone didn't recruit you, it's challenging, you know? I mean, it's tough. And especially when my game compared to the guys that he likes or is a little different, you know, I mean, he kind of likes defensive-oriented, tough-minded guards where I was more of a,

You're soft. I was a space-the-floor, cerebral guy. You're soft. You're just soft and slow. I was soft. Yeah. Yeah. God almighty fog.

You're soft. You've got all that from them all the time. Yes. But it was, I mean, it was, but it was unbelievable to play at Kansas for two years. I always tell people like, and I'm sure you, you know, with Yoki State blood pumping through you that Kansas, you know, you probably can never shake the, you know, the hate you feel for them. No. No. But you, but you respect that problem.

No, no, no, listen. People have it. People are completely, they, fans are, excuse me, excuse my friends, they're fucking idiots. Okay. That's, by the way, they're just the dumbest fucking people on the face of the fucking earth because they don't understand the sport. I grew up in Southern California. And there was a, there was a time, Roy used to get one kid out of Southern California every

year, including Paul Pierce, who was my roommate at ABCD. You go back in Adonis Jordan, my dad coached him, and he signed him. And there's just a litany of guys that they got Eric Chenoweth, who was behind me, you know, came from right down the street. He was, he was, he was like my, kind of like my bigger little brother playing in Orange County. So, um, so I, I was actually pissed that he didn't offer me. Like I was his exact prototype point guard for how he had a Kansas. Perfect for him.

Right. And he took Ryan Robertson, who was from, you know, much closer. And had a, so. And, but, but the other part is that people think that like 20 years later, you're still bitter about it. no, like I'm a grownup. It worked out really well for me. Did I get that Kansas got all the calls at home? Like, yeah, everybody kind of knows that, right?

Right. But I think it's an awesome place. And once you, right? Like, there's nothing. Okay, here's an honest question I have for you. You only played about half the games. There's a lot of you sat. I remember.

So Bill's first year, he inherited a loaded team, and they kind of fought him. I was told like he wanted longer practices and you know Roy when he gets to Coach Williams when he gets to you know February it becomes country club you know super super short get in get your shots you know run through your stuff and get out but what's it like to go from because I think I never experienced this

what does it like to go from being a superstar in high school and then actually not play in games like be a healthy scratch It was because basketball Basketball is a rhythm sport And it's a confidence sport I think Charles Barkley always has the great line The only difference between a good player

And a great player's confidence And I don't care what you can do You can kill in practice You can kill and pick up games You can put in a bunch of work In you know on the gun Individual workouts whatever But you got to go do it in a game

You know that, like you got to go do it in a game for that confidence to really explode. And I think that that's something that killed me. Like in some ways, I don't know if I ever fully regained that swagger that a lot of us play with in high school and that, you know, that FU attitude when you take the floor like, you know, I'm going to show everybody what the deal is here for the next 40 minutes. I don't know if I ever fully regain that. And that was hard.

That's a great point. See, I always feel like that's, that was kind of my thing, which was like, look, when I, in AAU I play with great players, so I did a little bit of both. But by my senior year, I was also a scorer and a pastor. And then in high school, you know, I did everything. And then I got to Notre Dame and I was trying so hard to do everything that John McLeod wanted that I kind of lost my game. And I got back some of that swagger the year I sat out. But then again, I was just like such a pleaser. But then you get into a role early on in college and it's really hard to break out.

Like, look, I get people all the time, like, well, you couldn't shoot. Like, well, do you think I would have been recruited by everyone in the country if I couldn't shoot at a high school? Right. Like, it's total confidence, mental thing. And, but, and then, you know, you're told, you know, by people who don't understand, like to kind of level off the attitude, whatever. But in order to, if you want to be a, and how tall are you? Six-two. Yeah, to be a six-two, or I'm a six-foot white dude and play in the Big 12 and play.

Like, you. better have some swagger. Like, you just do, because guys are coming at you every day. And it's a great point that you go somewhere and you think, all right, I'm going to bide my time, bide my time. And for me, I thought, like, look, I'm just going to do what I got to do to get on the court. And then ultimately, I'll let my game, you know, let my nuts hang and let my game come out.

And it's a hard thing to get back when you lose that confidence. It's tough. And especially for me, Doug, it was like, so I dislocated my shoulder, the fourth game of my football season, my senior year, and I missed half my basketball season. So I'm coming back from that. Then I go to Kansas, and I basically, more or less, don't play for two years. Then I transfer and have to sit out. So, Doug, we're talking about like almost three, four years of me not really playing a lot. And it was, my rhythm was gone. My timing was gone, and my confidence was a little bit shook. And then the other thing, too, was, I think, subconsciously, I tried not to be

like this, but I think there was an element of I walked it, I walked into Creighton thinking, okay, I've just dealt with Keith Langford and Aaron Miles and, you know, Kirk Conner can come back in the summer. I'm like, this is, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to run things here. Yeah. And there was, there was a cat named Nate Funk at Creighton that was a big time, mid-major guard. I mean, I'm talking big time. And in a lot of ways, my redshirt year at Creighton, the Valley got four teams in the NCAA tournament. Think about that. Four teams from the Valley went into the NCAA tournament.

Like, the Valley was really good. Southern Illinois was really good. So it was, I'm willing to say out loud that, you know, it was, the Valley was better and I thought it was. I think the six-ins between my ears was an issue for me kind of throughout my career. And I kind of got it back my senior year. a little bit. But then, you know, then I started to have, I was battling planar fasciitis.

I started to get kind of banged up and all that. But, you know, everybody's got their story to tell on kind of explaining the career. You know, I mean, I don't, I mean, listen, excuses or reasons. No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't, you don't got to go there with me. Like, I, I, like, again, this is where this, this podcast is not for civilians. It's for ball guys, right? Like, if you're into ball.

And, yeah, it's like by the time you get your confidence back, now a sudden, your body's your body's letting you down like for me by the time i got my confidence back you know i was already kind of into broadcasting and it was really hard and then i was like shit you know yeah what do you what do i do what do i commit to broadcasting do i want to play and then you i mean i'm at coach altman always i think coach alman had this bit and the other thing too is you talked about like trying to do everything your your coach told you to do i think coach altman wanted me to be like a charge taker uh tough guy and that really wasn't my game You know, but, and so you get, then you get into a horrible place where you're kind of fighting your role.

Yeah. And you'll just never win that battle. Like, I just, it's one of the things what I want to tell every kid playing out there, if you want to change your role, grow out of your role. Like be a star, it be amazing at your role to the point where you're, you know, you almost have to graduate to that next role. Does that make sense? So, like, if you want to, you want to be an unbelievable starter contributor, will kill it off. the bench to the point where you're embracing everything you do to where the coach goes, okay, well, we got to give you, we got to give this guy more opportunities, we've got to give

more minutes, and then things will build it up like that. I mean, the whole fighting your role is the, is the dumbest thing you could ever do as a player. Yeah, I also think, I also think, and I don't know if you had this, like I would, I would work, work, work, work on my shooting, my game, and then we get into the season and, you know, you have a girlfriend, you have school, you have all those other stuff, and, And all that work you did, you still get in the gym. Like, I think guys now get in the gym a lot more because they have the ability and facilities, and they got the gun machine and they got, you know, managers galore, whatever.

But, again, these are some excuses, some explanations. Some of it's just on me. Just I look back and I didn't, you know, I didn't necessarily stop working, but I wasn't working as hard in season as I did in the preseason. And, you know, when your confidence starts to wane and then the results aren't as good, then you're like, well, fuck it. I just, I'll just pass and play defense. and let the rest kind of take care of itself.

It's a fascinating thing, and it's, do you have, you have, you have kids, right? You have a three-year-old daughter. It's an amazing thing to have a son. And, you know, like he asked me, like, well, why didn't you play in the NBA? And I don't know how much I want to get into his head. What I told him was like, well, I didn't think I could shoot. And he's like, well, could you? I was like, well, yeah, I could, I just didn't think I could shoot.

I said, you know, you can't ever let anybody. tell you, you've got to always believe no matter what you're doing. But I don't want to get too much into his head and tell him that you know, that I mind screwed myself, but I did. But it's an amazing thing to watch a kid kind of try and figure it out and then he's going to ask

you. And, you know, the good thing is, with the exception of the shooting thing, people tell him I was much better player than I was. So that puts a little bit of pressure on him. But it's a fascinating thing to go through And I think that most of us, you know, it's like, did you go play for the right coach? Did you go play at the right place?

Did you have the right experience? Did you leave at the right time? Like when you left Kansas, the right decision was Creighton the right place, I don't know. Let me ask you this about Nebraska. What do you think happens there? I mean, you have your own show in Omaha. Yeah. They've built incredible facilities.

It's a program that, you know, again, you've got to be inventive as a recruiter. Tim's shown the ability. take them to the tournament. Obviously, he's coached other places and been good. He's a great guy. But they made a huge investment in an arena and in a practice facility. And, you know, I think people want better results than what they have gotten in spite of the injury. What do you think happens there?

Yeah. Well, I think, first of all, when the fan base starts to, when that starts to turn on you, that's a hard thing to reverse. And it feels like that has happened, where the fan base has slowly started turning on Coach Miles and that negativity snowball is humming down the mountain right now. And some of it is hard from Coach Miles standpoint that, you know, the Sean I course was the athletic director that didn't hire him,

but then Sean I course hires Mike Riley. That's a colossic failure. Now, so he's two athletic directors removed from the guy hired him. And it almost feels like Coach Miles says coached on the hot seat for three straight years. And you know this, Doug, because you get it. Like, that is a program killer, man. Like, that when, where you, you, he has the shortest contract of any coach in the

Big Ten. That hurts recruiting. I think Tim has said on, he went on Jeff Goodman's podcast and talked about how when you're on the hot seat, you maybe coach a little bit different. He allowed a guy, Jordy Schmonga, big kid. who quit the team for two days to come back. And I think he felt like that was a decision that was based out of almost hot seat stuff. And so I think in his defense, I do think the fact that there hasn't been a lack of,

there's been a lack of support from above, has hurt. But at the end of the day, you know, it's year seven. He's gone to the tournament one time. And the thing that I think kills him right now is, you know, he went to the tournament his second year. the next year he brought back to Rand Petterway, Walter Pitchford, pretty much everybody. And they fell

off a cliff and didn't even make the NIT. Then this year, you know, last year they went 13-5 in the Big Ten. Big Ten was down. They didn't get into the NCAA tournament. They returned everybody, and this year they've kind of fallen off a cliff here over the past month and a half. So the two times they had good years, they didn't follow it up with sustaining it.

And that's the true mark of a program, man. Well, you sustain it. A lot of people could have a cup of coffee up top, but can you sustain it? Yes, also, if you return your guys. Like, and I saw you tweet out something about Penn State who'd played everybody tough, and I don't know if they make a change there, but, you know, like, look, Penn State lost their best player, lost a couple other, I mean, they're a completely different team, whereas the difference with Tim, and I think we both liked him and think he's a good coach.

But the difference is that returning, or the meat of your team, they've had these bizarre kind of failures, the following season, which is the odd part. Let me follow up with this. You know, I always thought that Dana would only, you know, Dana left for like a week to be Arkansas's head coach. I always thought Iowa was the other job, you know, because he's originally from there. Iowa would be the job that he'd take.

You know, you got the Oregon thing, he took him to the Final Four, but he just doesn't seem like an Oregon guy, and he keeps having these one-and-done guys, and he doesn't really have the success he has with guys or program guys in his program. I'm just wondering if you think that if Dana would come home and coach the other team in Nebraska?

Wouldn't surprise me at all. It wouldn't surprise me at all. Now, with that said, because that's always kind of been the thought. I think there was some thought when Miles was hired. I mean, almost every single coaching change they made over the past two, three coaches, there was always the chance that Dana Altman was. going to get the job, but he really never got a phone call. But I was emceeing an event this summer where Kyle Corver and Dana Altman went into

the Creighton Hall of Fame, and I'm sitting there watching Coach Altman speak to this, you know, room full of Creighton people. And there was this moment where I'm sitting there going, God, would he do it? Would he go to the other side? Because Creighton in Nebraska, it's a big rivalry in the state. I do think there's enough time removed from his time coaching in Omaha. and Creighton's in a good place now. They move to the Big East,

and I don't think the fan base would necessarily feel terrible about it. And listen, Dana Altman is born and raised Wilbur, Nebraska. And that's a big red country. And I think he's a guy, as you said it, I mean, Oregon's the, Oregon's the flashiest university in the country.

And Dana Altman is the complete opposite of that. There is an element of, I totally agree with you. I mean, has the guy ever worn anything other than, than a white button-up dress shirt. Like, I mean, the dude is everything about Oregon is the complete opposite of Coach Altman. And so I think, you know, his family's from Nebraska, his wife's family's from Nebraska.

I think he always wants to retire in Nebraska. All his friends are here. Like, there are a lot about, there's a lot about the taking the job outside of basketball that makes sense. And then the basketball job is, the basketball job is a lot. better than you used to be. I mean, it's still a hard job. Yes. But, I mean, you used to play in a different building. Now you've got an unbelievable facility, right? And, you know, his name credibility would buy him all the time he needs. And plus if he doesn't end up happening, he retires and

rides off into the sunset. It does, you know, I don't want to fire Tim again because he, Mike Lewis is a dear friend of mine. And I think they're a good guy. I think they're a great guy and good people. But, you know, this is kind of, this is, this is the business. And the nature, yeah, That's the nature of the business. And by the way, it's what everybody listed this pod actually talks about, which is, it's the weird thing about a lot of guys in the business, which is they'll say, like, I can't believe Goodman has his hot seed or whatever. Like, hey, dude, the second guy I text you, you're like, did you hear this job's coming open and that job's coming over? Like, well, we're not allowed in the business to talk about it. Right.

I mean, the thing about Nebraska real quick about that job is a lot of it is, however, first of all, I'm not sure. Have you been to the new arena? Have you been to Pinnacle Bank? did a game there yet? No. No. I saw it was being built. I did games when it was being built.

You know how it is. There are certain power conference jobs where the arena's dead. It's half full. There's no energy. Nebraska, it's been top ten nationally attendance for the past couple of years. You would have no idea when you're at a home game that Nebraska, now that Northwestern won a tournament game a couple years ago, that Nebraska is the only power conference school to never have won an NCAA tournament game. based on the environment.

Like, it's rocking in there, Doug. Like, it is packed. They still leave early like they used to? They always used to. Everybody used to say, like a fire alarm. And I don't know what engineer built it this way or architect where everybody to leave, you have to like walk down onto the court and like walk out. So it's like it looks bad on TV too because you can see everybody kind of funneling down.

But it's all on the, you know, you can look at that job and be scared off and spring. by the lack of success the coaches have had. But at the same time, you can look at it and go, man, all we got to do is get to the tournament. And if we win a game, they're going to build a statue of me outside of this brand new arena because you are instill – I mean, if Nebraska goes to tournament, wins a game, it's the best season in Nebraska basketball history. And when that's the, at least initial bar of things,

that's the one thing about, you know, whether it's the UCLA job or whatever, like the expectations are some, you always got to take into consideration when you take a job. And with Nebraska, that bar is not necessarily too hot. Marquette is the Villanova. How good is Marquette? What Jo actually asked me this question? And so I think he downloads the podcast.

How good do you think there? I think they're a team that is going to need the right match. I think just like, and you can say that about a lot of teams, but I think the really good teams are kind of matchup proof, if that makes sense. Oh, I don't know. How many teams are there that are matchup proof this year, though? Yeah, that's true. I mean, I think, my thing is I think, I feel like they're a guard away. Like, if Kobe McKeown was eligible this year, like I don't think he's, last year at Utah State was as good as what his reputation will be leading into Marquette next year.

But they had somebody else other than Marcus who. could handle the ball, who could make a couple plays. Right? And like, look, the Houser boys are awesome, awesome. And I love, you talk about, you know, succeeding in your roles, whether it's Seacum or Theo John, like those guys have improved, but they also totally accept, embrace, and thrive within their roles. But it's kind of like, look, Marcus Howard, they run everything for him, and then the

Houser boys can post, they can shoot, and they can play off him. But it feels like they need one more guy to handle the ball, and they just don't have that. Yeah, I think, you know, Annam has gotten better, but he's still not an overly dynamic guy creating. You know, he's a guy that probably needs to close out, you know, a kick close out to really go make a play or, you know, a weave to get a downhill kind of a look. I'm with you. And I've watched that Utah State transfer in practice. He was Miles Powell and the scout team and dude was cooking. So he's a really good player.

But I agree. I like Marquette. I mean, because the day, Marcus Howard is, I mean, you got the fact that. this dude can go for 40, 50 any night. Yes, too, too, too. And, you know, they do have guys that you, it's not like you can just punk, um, you, you, you, you can just play way up, like, with Seaton Hall, you can totally sell out to Miles Powell and they just don't have a ton of guys that can score.

And the other dudes on the four. Right. What, I mean, you, you can't just give Joey Houser 10 Stan Seal threes, you know, you, you can't give, uh, the, you can't give those guys easy looks. But I'm with the, there is an element of, of, of, they feel like they're a, all handler short, but I think they've really improved defensively. I think they totally embraced who they are. And when you've got a guy like Howard, I mean, anything's possible.

And when they've, they've beat good teams. I mean, Buffalo's a really good team. Howard went nuts in the second half, had 40 in the second half. They beat a Kansas State team, as you know, is, I mean, that's a bunch of grown men defensively that Howard torched. Like, they are, they're a team that I don't, I don't love to make a deep run, but it also wouldn't stun me because they got the stud and how it. Tonight, at the time of this recording, you're going to see, you're going to call Old

Dominion against UT San Antonio. And I've seen both in person. I've done some QSA games. And the UTSA guards, Keaton Wallace and Javon Jackson, dude, they're fun. They combined average like 44 points a game. O'DU is really good defensively. B.J. Stiff is their stud. Of course, his dad, his dad Bryant is on the staff played for Jeff Jones at Virginia. It's a little bit weird, right? But that both brothers and the dad played for the coach. And he doesn't, maybe it's because I was recruited by Jeff that I don't feel like

there are any, he's that old. But I guess, I guess he is that old. This is a league that's produced teams that won NCAA tournament games, really one team is one NCAA tournament. A couple of years, middle had it rolling. Is ODU good enough to win a game in the tournament? Absolutely. I mean, they're big, they're tough to play against because they control tempo, and they got

it, you know, they got what you want in terms of what you chase as any program. They got two senior veteran guards that are 1,000 points scores that aren't going to be afraid of any moment. And the thing that makes them kind of unique is with BJ Stiff anymore, it's hilarious to watch people try to defend like long curls. and defend pendowns. People are, that, that's become the unique thing. Like now everything is ball screen, pick and pop, you know, spread it out.

Old Dominion's unique in the sense that they don't do some ball screen stuff with the Machaber, their point card. But they're really doing a lot of different things with Stiff, running them off of curls and pin downs and different things. And it's tough for people to slow, slow him down. So I think they're good enough. I mean, they're outstanding defensively. I think they're top 10 nationally in field goal percentage defense,

which is something that I don't, scoring defense, a lot of that has to do with your tempo and your pace. I mean, at least I'm a field goal percentage defense guy. And so the fact they, I mean, teams don't shoot a high percentage on them.

Yeah, I don't think they're a team that can necessarily make a run to the second weekend. But, you know, they're the type of team that would be a tough one to see if you saw them in the first round because of their tempo and their style. Zion goes down with a sprained knee. I'm guessing he's probably healthy.

Do you think he should play? Man, Doug. Now, listen, I know I'm preaching the choir, but sometimes you need a choir to preach to. Like, what are people talking about with the whole shut it down stuff? Like, I don't, I just, I mean, I guess I don't be disingenuous. Do I understand that, can I, can I wrap my mind around the other side of, of it, I suppose?

But this isn't like Christian McCaffrey's, sitting out of the Little Caesar's Bowl. Sun Bowl. It was Sunball. Yeah. But, you know, I can wrap my mind around that. You know what I mean? Like it's a game, it's not a championship. You're a running back. It's like you're going to get hit 30 times in a game. Like Zion, Zion, they're still playing for a national championship. And I just do not want to live in a world where I'm going to say out loud that I don't see any value in that at all. Well, just to find out, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but just the idea of people

like, well, there's no value. Yes, there is. You win a national championship? Your brand and likeness, I don't want to say they double, but you become, like, we all think everybody knows who Zion is. Like, that's just not the, it's just, they just don't. I mean, the power, look, did I work at CBS and for Turner? And I've done it for 10 years, done the NCAA, done all the college basketball for 10

years. And I can tell you, the first time I was on CBS, I would go to the airport and be like, ah, I didn't know you'd, you'd, you know. And I had no idea. Like, what do you mean? You know, I know, I know, because people watch the tournament that have never watched basketball before. That's the beauty of the tournament. But anyway, go ahead.

And then just a competitive aspect to it, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, and if you're going to use Zion with the other thing, too, and there's a few problems, people have taken a bunch of different conversations and try to slam it into this one Zion should shut it down. It's like, okay, we can have the one and done conversation. We can have the pay players conversation. like this is not necessarily applicable to all that.

I mean, because to me, the thing if you want to use Zion Williamson as a reason why the one and done should go away, like that's, dude, you've got the wrong guy. He's, if anything, he's the argument for going to college because he was not the number one pick three months ago. R.J. Barrett was. Now Zion's the number one pick. He was a YouTube sensation. Right. That, and as you said, like, not everybody knows who this dude was. Now he's getting 24

7, 365, chatter on Fox, on ESPN, and all these different networks, if he, if, if he wasn't playing for Duke and playing college basketball, that's not happening. Like, so his profile has, has increased even more. So I just, he's the example for going to college. And then the other thing I don't understand, too, is that, okay, so he shuts it down, right? Is he, is he still going to, so is he, he still going to play basketball? Of course. He's going to work out. I mean, he, like, he could, like what I don't understand, I think Mike DeCossey wrote about this, and it's spot on. It's like, so are we saying that it's okay?

Like if Zion Williamson gets hurt playing pickup on a random Saturday morning, that's cool. But if he gets hurt playing NC State or whoever, like in Cameron Indoor, that's not okay. He's going to continue to play basketball, and there's a chance he's going to get hurt. I just don't, I don't get it at all. I don't either.

Hey, man, enjoy Virginia. It's cool arena there. And let's catch up again soon. Next time you're in L.A., beer on me or coffee on me. I'm more of a coffee guy. But you know I love Omaha. I may pop in and see it.

Yes, sir. Yours and hoops. We'll talk soon. Hey, man. I love the podcast. I listen to it all the time. I really appreciate you. I want to see if you listen to yourself.

That'll be awkward. It will be. All right. Last thing in terms of college basketball. I understand that they play in the West Coast Conference. I fully get that they've been so ridiculously dominant, it points out. Actually, I got two things I want to get to with college basketball. First is, how do we get to this point where the Pact 12 teams like Arizona State,

who was actually good in the non-conference, did lose at home to Princeton after beating Kansas? Like, their success in conference and their improvement somehow gets marginalized, as opposed to, say, St. Mary's, which has played its way on the bubble, which hasn't offered any sort of level of competitiveness with Gonzaga. Like beating up on average WCC teams, same areas is not an NCAA tournament team. I think Arizona State is. I frankly think if Oregon State can beat both Arizona and Arizona State this week

and then beat at least Washington State on the road. Maybe they lose to Washington. All right, so you go three and one down the stretch and win a game in the Pac-12 tournament. I think they're an NCAA tournament, too. I'm looking at this bubble and these bottom teams and we're making excuses for teams that have had bad seasons. Well, they're playing great conferences. I agree. Good conferences against good conference schedules.

But if you're two or three or four games below 500, sorry, sorry. And then we're also bearing the lead. I think Duke is outstanding. And I think some of their younger players have gotten better. But Gonzaga beat them in Maui and Gonzaga has gotten better. We keep searching for reasons to put Virginia ahead of Duke. Look, if Zion Williamson's playing, Virginia is better than Duke. How do I know?

They played twice, and they're better. And I think they're going to continue to get better. I still think Virginia is a Final Four caliber team, but don't tell me that the second best team, if Zion's playing. If Zion's not playing, Duke can't win this thing, not with two scores. No way. And not enough shoot. They might not have enough shooting anyway.

And if you don't have Zion, you just don't have enough. but Gonzaga is your best team. Start there and then every other conversation can take place. All right, this is going to do it for All Ball. My thanks to Nick Baugh. Thanks to you for downloading, subscribing, and rating the show. Reminder, listen to my radio show daily, 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 12 to 3 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio in the IHeart Radio app.

Until next time, I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is All Ball. When you're ready to place a bet on today's games, Do it with the most trusted name in online sports betting, Bet Rivers Sportsbook. Now legal in several states and growing. BetRiver's Sportsbook delivers a unique sports betting experience featuring live streaming sports, in-game wagering, fast authorizations on most withdrawals and gold standard customer service. Go to betrivers.com, see for yourself.

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