The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb – All Ball - with Nevada HC Eric Musselman on team expectations; life in hoops, learning from Chuck Daly and Flip Saunders

Episode Date: December 13, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. This week, Gottlieb talks with Nevada Head Coach Eric Musselman on handling expectations for his team, following in his father's footsteps, coaching in the D-league, his NBA experience, and learning from Chuck Daly and Flip Saunders. Follow Doug on Twitter and submit podcast questions at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest All Ball content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to him. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone knows the risks of drunk driving. You could get in a crash. People could get hurt or killed. Thousands of people are killed in drunk driving crashes every year. But that still doesn't stop everyone. You could get arrested. You could incur huge legal expenses.

and you could possibly lose your job. We all know the consequences of drunk driving, but one thing's for sure. You're wrong if you think it's no big deal. Plan ahead, don't take chances, and don't drive drunk. Drive sober or get pulled over. Paid for by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Hey, welcome in to the All Ball podcast.

I'm Doug Gottlieb. This week's guest is Eric Bustleman. He's the head coach in Nevada. He's had an amazing life, and he's only in his 50s. And, of course, he's head coached the Wolfpack. They're ranked seventh in... the country. I'll really quickly give you my take on the pack before he joins us. The Martin Twins are outstanding. They're both 23 years old. They're both kind of point forward

types. Cody is, Cody does all the little things. Caleb is more the star, although Caleb not a great shooter. And like, look, look at the Arizona State game. He struggled from three. I don't know if they have enough shooting. They're bringing Jazz Johnson. They downshift and go small. if they have enough shooting to win the whole thing. But they seem to have everything else. Seem to have everything else. And then they have Jordan Caroline who plays everything from small forward to power forward to center. I think he could be a first round draft pick in the NFL.

His dad, Simeon Rice, grandpa, course, a star in the NFL. And he plays with the type of energy, tenacity, ferocity. He's not as good around the basket as Tony Gonzalez was, who I played with an A.U. basketball, but there's some similarities there. 64, 65, thick legs, explosive, competitive. I love them. Love him. Jazz Johnson, the transfer comes out the bench. 5-11, plays hard, can really, really shoot the basketball.

He's kind of like their secret weapon. And they're still learning to play with some of the... Remember, they only have three guys, Caroline and the Martin Twins, that played together last year. So it's not that stunning that. that there have been moments in which their defense hasn't been as good as you would have liked. They do have, like, their center is kind of interesting to me. You know, having watched them play and called a couple of their games,

I watched Trey Porter. Trey Porter's only playing 16 and a half minutes a game, averaging 7 and 5. Tremendous shot blocker, tremendous athlete, two-time transfer, George Mason O'DU, and now he plays at Nevada. He is diabetic, so there is sometimes. when he doesn't have the energy, especially playing. Remember, Reno's in altitude. Most of the games in the Mountain West, with exception to San New State in altitude. But great shot blocker, really good energy and changes how they look.

Then they bring Jordan Brown, another shot blocker, five-star recruit off the bench. You go with those two and then Trey Thurman, who can play some three, some four, some five, can shoot the ball pretty well from three. Another transfer, Corey Henson as well can shoot it. You know, they got a team with the exception of Jordan Brown full of, men, 22 and 23-year-old men. I like them, but more than anything, I love the story of their head coach, Eric Musselman, who's going to join us in moments.

I do think that as we start to see transfers in college basketball, you go back to last week's podcast, and I said what I said about transfers. I was watching Javon Quinterly and the disaster that he had on Instagram last night doesn't play. They get beat by Penn. First time. in 26 games they'd lost to a team in the city series. They lose at the Pellestra, and he IGs out. Now you know why it was my second choice for a reason. Well, look, you got beat out by Colin Gillespie,

who's a better college basketball player. May not have the upside of you, but he shoots 43% from three. He's not a great passer. But he's solid, and he started some on a national championship team last year, and you're going to have to beat him out. And, oh, yeah, by the way, Gillespie had 21.

on five shots. Gillespie's offense, and they fouled out, wasn't the reason that it wasn't like you would have been better offensively. You should be better defensively, but it takes time. And nobody has any patience anymore. None. None. Before I get to my interview with Nevada head coach, Eric Musselman,

let me take a moment to tell you about quip. There's a buzzy gift on everyone's list this year. It's called quip. And if you get it, they'll use it twice a day. every day. If you get it, they'll say, did you see this on Oprah's O list? It's perfect for everyone with a mouth, even one as big as mine. Quip is quick. Quip is easy. Quip is sensitive for sensitive gums like mine. It even reminds you when to switch sides of your mouth and it's easy to pack and travel because you can stick it to a mirror and slide it off with no incident. That's why I love

quip and why they have over 5,000 verified five-star reviews. Quip looks like a big ticket item, but it's got a stocking stuff for price, starting at just $25. So go to get quip, get quip.com slash Doug. Right now, get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush. That's your first refill pack for free at get quip.com slash Doug. Get quip. Dot com slash Doug. All right, let's welcome into the all ball podcast, the head coach of the defending regular

season champions of the Mountain West. and, of course, they went to the Sweet 16 last year. They're ranked number seven in both polls this year. They're undefeated. Eric Musselman is our guest. And Eric, thanks so much for taking, Musl, thanks so much for taking time. Here we are, I don't know, a month in the season or so. And you have kind of an older group, but a different group than you've had in previous years.

Outside of the wins, what's your assessment of your team so far? Well, first of all, Doug, thanks so much for having me on. You know, I think our guys have done a really good job. I think the hardest thing for us was kind of new territory, obviously coming off the Sweet 16 and being a basket away from the elite eight. We kind of snuck up on people. And, you know, last year was a fun year with no pressure. We went out.

We were kind of the underdog, especially once we got to the NCAA tournament. And that all switched preseason. I've been really, really proud of how the guys have had a business-like approach. They didn't let all the off-season media and accolades get to them. And now that we're, you know, 10 games into the season, I think that's all behind us regardless of what happens in our upcoming games. The bottom line is what I was worried about is how were we going to get through these first 10 games with six of them being away from home, just handling the pressure,

not just wins and losses, but how was a group that only had three players that were in uniform last year and a whole new group that was ranked preseason and really hadn't proven anything at all together, how would they react? And that's probably the thing that we're most proud of in this young season. You fell behind big early to Arizona State the other night at Staples Center. You learn a ton about your team through adversity. Would you learn in that comeback about what you had? well i think the one thing is you know really for the last three years we've never felt that we've been

out of a game and you know we were down 20 some with nine minutes ago against new mexico on the road a couple years ago and came back and then obviously last year we got down to texas by 12 in the second half and we were down 22 to cincinnati in the second half and it's just a group that that always believes that they can come back and win a game. And certainly, you know, we want to play good out of the gate, but that doesn't always happen. And the one thing you always want your team to do is, is play until the last possession of the game, regardless of the score. And probably because of the character of who we have in Cody Martin, Caleb, Mark, Jordan, Caroline, those are our leaders emotionally, spiritually,

and also verbally. And those guys do a great job of, you know, because there's games when you're shots next to all, and the games when your legs are a little bit tired, or you're mentally fatigued, and on those nights, you're not going to play pretty basketball all the time. I think that's the biggest thing, Doug, with us, is just a will to win. And again, it doesn't mean you're always going to win, but it certainly means that you've got a fighting chance on any given night, even when your offense isn't clicking. And, you know, sometimes we do get behind. I mean, the game against Grand Canyon, we're down 14 to 2.

because we take some ill-advised shots and we take some quick threes, but that's also what gets us back into games as well. Eric Musselman is our guest here on the All Ball podcast. Let's go back. You play at San Diego. You finish up with Hank Egan as your head coach, and it's pretty amazing. There's like two current head coaches in the NBA from San Diego.

Of course, you, and, you know, there's a guy at St. Mary's. There's another San Diego guy. I seem to be killing it. What was it about San Diego that has? has been able, like, U.S.D. is not known for basketball. They got a nice team this year, by the way. I just called their upset of San Diego State. But what was it about that group that played for Hank Egan, especially,

and maybe Brad Holland that followed, that's been this kind of quiet little wellspring of coaches? Well, it really sports with Coach Bicker staff. And, you know, Bernie coached and played there, and then obviously went on to the nuggets. and then Bernie brought Mike Brown into the video room with the nuggets when he was coaching there. My freshman year I played for Coach Jim Revelli and Coach Brevelli, a lot of people forget not only was at the University of San Diego, but then he was an NBA assistant with Washington

and with Coach Bickerstaff and then ended up being an interim NBA head coach. So when you think of Coach Baccarstaff, Coach Brevelli being an interim NBA head coach as well as an assistant in the NBA. And then obviously Doug, Coach Egan, when he got to USDA, it kind of changed where there many, many doors opened. And it's because Coach Egan coached coached Greg Popovich in college. And so Coach Egan becomes an assistant coach with the Spurs. And then he opens up doors for people like David Fisdale,

the current head coach of the New York Knicks, and Chris Grant, who's a former general manager of the Atlanta Hawks. And so there's all these little branches that have now, you know, come across and guys are having great success. And Sean was team coaches from USDA. And it really is amazing. But the thing is, it's a small fraternity. And all of us have looked out for each other in this coaching business. And, of course, you got a chance to work, starting off working.

Not for your dad. Like, your dad was with the Timberwolves, and he had just finished with the thrillers. When you were a GM at, what, like, 21 years old? in the CBA? You know, Doug, my first job was actually, I went from the University of San Diego to selling tickets with the L.A. Clippers, and at that time, that was a very, very, very difficult job.

The Clippers did not win many games. Fortunately, for me, Barry Hacker was the player personnel director. At that time, he lived in Salt Lake, city. And so I got an opportunity to expand the role being Barry's assistant because he wasn't living in the town in the city of Los Angeles. And he was out recruiting and scouting, so to speak. I got to do a lot of the paperwork for Barry. And he gave me a great opportunity. And from there, I went as a general manager in the old CBA, the minor leagues in Rapid City,

South Dakota. And I was 22 years old. At that time, You know, you've got to hire a coach if you're a GM, and I was fortunate enough to hire Flip Saunders, who had played for my dad. Flip was an assistant coach at the University of Tulsa. Under what, J.D. Barnett, right? Was J.D. Barnett, the coach? Yeah, he was under J.D. Barnett, exactly, Doug. J.D. Barnett was known as, he was, like, seen as a crazy person, but had an, if I remember correctly, unbelievable staff, like Tubby was on that staff. I'm trying to think there were several other guys that have become.

tremendous head coaches that are on on j d barnett but jd barnett was seen as an amazing coach but just he was kind of back in that yellow screamer uh era of coaches that is that is that accurate yeah i think it is and flip uh it was interesting because flip knew that he was going to end up getting a college head job but but he was in you know really really interested in the pro game and wanted to go that route because prior to working as an assistant coach at tulsa flip was at Golden Valley in Minnesota, small college, and had an incredible record. But he came and together, both of us kind of learned the CBA ways of guys going to Europe and guys coming back and call-ups.

And we turned a team around. It was 18 and 38 the year before to 38 and 18. And it was one of the funnest years I had because Flip is a guy, it was a guy that was so great to be around and was such a. an incredible innovator from an offensive standpoint. So as a GM, I was so young and was learning from flip, and it was an experience. For me, that was the guy that I looked up to. He played for my dad at the University of Minnesota, he wore number 14.

I know exactly what his jump shot looked like. And that's what I emulate it all through high school. And then you get done with college and you get to work with the guy that you looked up to so much. Your first job together was kind of like a dream come true. All right, give me your greatest CBA discovery, guy that you saw that either played for you when you were a coach in the CBA or you acquired as a GM in CBA that became an NBA player. Give me your Mario Ellie story. You know, I think the one guy, and it's just because people said that he could never be a point guard. It's actually an NBA league.

Donald Sloan was a guy that, you know, he was a backup. for us, and Aaron Miles blew his knee out. Donald, we had a road trip of five straight games, and Donald actually had all of his bags packed with all of his belongings, and he brought him on every road trip because he was trying to get out of the T-League and go play in Europe, and then he ended up playing so well for us and ended up being a seven-year career, but he was ready to give up his NBA dream because he was a backup in the minor leagues,

and he stuck with it. But there's so many guys. I didn't think Donald Sloan was an NBA point guard. I mean, I covered him at TechS A&M, and I didn't see. I know the game is different, and he was a great winner playing for Turgh, right? But he was, he wasn't a great shooter. He didn't have, he went right almost every time, but he was, he was tougher than hell. And he was a winner.

He had it, and it's different to be a backup point guard than is to be a starting point guard, right? Like, you have to, toughness maybe even above skill, and then no. knowing kind of who you are. But that's, that, that's, it's really remarkable that you could see him. I love that he brought all of his stuff with him, right? And that's, that's, that's part of the, the part I tell people all the time. There's this push for high school kids to go right to the minor leagues. And I'm like, look, I don't think you, I don't think, I know you don't want that.

Because even though, look, you started and established your career back in the old CBA, you can attest to this. It's, when you're playing the G League or the CBA, whatever, no one wants to be there long, term. There is no investment in long term. Everybody is renting month to month or week to week, whereas in college sports, there is an investment in the process, in the place. People do want to stay, whether it's four or five years or coaches would like to stay longer. Sometimes the business pushes you to a different place. I just, I don't like the idea of setting a high school kid to somewhere that no one really wants to be. And I agree, you know, a student athlete really is,

and the bus trips. And, you know, people, talk about development and in the D-League, you don't have much practice time because you're playing almost every night and then the nights you're not playing the travel becomes so hard that it, from a player development standpoint, you have

so much more time in college to work with guys, even though we have restrictions on the time, you still have way more time than what a D-League player would get just because of the difficult travel and the number of games you play. But there's so

any neat, you know, relationships and stuff that I feel like I was exposed to in the minor leagues. Some of the guys that played for us, like Leon Wood turned into an NBA ref, and Keith Smart played for us in Rapid City and ended up being a head coach in the NBA. Connor Henry ended up being a great D-League coach and now works as a scout for the Timberwolves and college coaches like Craig Neal and Wayne Tinkle played for us in Rapid City and Lester Conner, who was a long time NBA assistant. The relationships are absolutely incredible with guys. And there was less NBA teams in that time.

But really, really neat relationships. I think other success stories that you had a part or a hand in, like Jeremy Lynn was sent down to us from Golden State. And Jeremy really struggled in picking roles trying to go left and make decisions on guys rolling or popping. And then you fast forward like a couple months after he's with you with the Reno Big Horns and Linsanity happens. And Gerald Green was a guy that absolutely did not want to play in the D-League.

And through phone call after phone call, after phone call, he passed up a deal in China. And he got called up to the Nets. And then since then he's stuck in the league. And so all those things are really what basketball is all about is the relationships and then seeing guys go on and have success. What, for people who didn't don't remember your dad as a coach, there are moments which your dad is remembered for, you know, they used to do, my dad told me they used to do like, didn't they play sweet Georgia Brown when he was first in Minnesota?

They played sweet Georgia Brown. They do like a, like they'd almost do the Harlem Globetrotters warm up. They did. They did, Doug, and it was, they played Sweet Georgia Brown. It's on YouTube if you actually, you know, Google, you know, Bill Musselman University of Minnesota warm-up. It started at Ashland College in Ohio where he put together this warm up with players learning to juggle, unicycle guys, guys were even on scholarship. He put a guy on scholarship at the University of Minnesota that was a unicycle rider.

No. He did. True story. Mike Munson was his name. There was a guy named Crazy George Shower, who played both at Ashland and the University of Minnesota. And George was not a good player, but he was still, to this day, one of the famous basketball spinners of a ball or ball handler. And he actually still works for the Dallas Mavericks. But they had a warm-up that was kind of insane.

And he was kind of a showman way before. that was something that was looked upon, and they sold out Williams Arena and had great teams, but he was known for that warm-up, and that's cool to hear that your dad used to tell you that story. So my dad's, my dad was like my dad loves Sweet Georgia Brown, and so I'll tell you, I'd love to just,

and this is kind of what this podcast is. Like, look, we could talk about your team, and I want to talk about your journey personally, but I don't know, like, I fell in love with basketball because, one, I like playing it. But I used to, in Southern California, my dad, he got fired in 84 with Tex winner.

And he went up and he was a volunteer assistant for Oregon State for Ralph Miller. Lany Van Eben said, you've got to come up here, coach or coach Miller, and you'll get a job somewhere else the next year. And he ended up, you know, coaching, he's supposed to coach in the 6'4 and Under League, right? The IBA or, yeah, it was the IBA was supposed to be the 6'4 in Under League. and he'd coached in the NBA Summer League here at LMU. And he would coach us in AAU.

And in Orange County, like, we had good players, but in order to get a little bit better players, you had to get a couple of kids from L.A. or we had the J.R. Henderson from Bakersfield, the Waltons from San Diego. And a lot of these kids, the parents wouldn't drive them to practice. So we'd pick me up from school, and we'd go drive to, you know, Compton or East Los Angeles

or somewhere in South Central, pick up a kid, go to practice, meet everybody, practice, and then go take them home. And so he would tell me, stories about basketball. So he told me about Sweet Georgia Brown. He told me about your dad. And he also told me about the fight.

Now, there was a terrible fight with Ohio State, right? And part of what made your dad a great coach was that he got kids to play remarkably hard and really, really aggressive. And, you know, some would say, you know, there's that line there, right, where you don't want to, you don't want to be overly aggressive. But there was a nasty fight between them and Ohio State, wasn't there? Yes, it was. Luke Woody was involved in the fight, and, you know, it was interesting because both teams, University of Minnesota at the time in Ohio State, Doug, were really, really good basketball teams, and my dad was from Ohio. There was actually a player on the University of Minnesota, Keith Young, who was from Columbus, Ohio, and Ohio State did not recruit him.

And there was an incident in half time where a Minnesota player was spit on as they were leaving the floor. And, you know, unfortunately, you know, a fight did ensue at the end of the game. And, you know, there was a lot of things that people didn't know that kind of led up to that fight. But it happened. And, you know, that one incident is probably what drones. my dad to go to the pro game. That's what I was going to ask, yeah. Yeah, he left the University of Minnesota

and went and worked as a head coach in the ABA for the San Diego sales, and that team folded because they found out about eight games into the ABA season that they were not going to be part of the NBA merger. And that following year was when, you know, the Spurs and the Pacers and the Nets entered into the NBA and the teams that were remaining in the ABA, they all folded. And so the owners found that out.

They didn't want to continue the year. And so I learned at a really young age because at that time, I was in junior high. My dad had left a really stable situation for the pro game. And I'm sitting at dinner table one night. My dad's out of a job, and my mom is upset because she loved living in Minnesota. and so, you know, what happens next? And Virginia Squires hired my dad about two weeks after the sale folded. And so he was off to Virginia.

Our family was then separated. And as you know, Doug, when your dad, you know, when Bob was coaching, you were probably not with him all the time. And that's just kind of what happened. Yeah, no, my brother's birthdays in early March. And I remember that it wasn't until, I think 86. So my brother was,

it was 72. So that's like his 14th birthday. I think, I think honestly, was the first birthday my dad was ever around my brother for. Like literally it wasn't until 14 years old. Because back then you had 18 scholarships

and the second one season was over. You had to get on the road. And he had this Honda Civic. And he would go and drive and go all across the country and find, find more players. He was the head coach. to the Minnesota Timberwolves when they were an expansion team.

And here's what I remember. And this is what I remember from Pump Camp when I was a kid, was they used to talk about your dad and go, now he's he's a great coach, but does anybody know he's actually running a one-three-one? Is that accurate? Is that he was, that was back in the days of the old, old illegal defense rules where you couldn't play zone, right?

And they used to give the ball to Michael Jordan, you know, Kevin Lockery gave it to him on one side of the court, put everybody else in the other. And your dad was like, the hell with it, I'm just going to find a creative way of running a one-three-one. Is that an accurate recollection? Yes, it is, Doug, and it was interesting because when we kind of presented it to the team, you know, because of the illegal defensive rules, my dad would, you know, word it that we're playing a,

you know, hyperbical transitional floating zone man-to-man. And then Flip, actually, Flip Saunders ended up when the rules changed and you were allowed to play zone in the NBA, which you're still currently allowed to, flip ended up using that same zone defense, which was basically a matchup zone, but out of a one-three-one look. You know, because I was with my dad, Tom Tibido was an assistant coach with the Timberwolves team, and he did some really, really unique, you know, strategic things. For instance, one night he had Randy Brewer, who was seven-foot-four guard, Magic Johnson,

and Magic was obviously a point guard for the Lakers. and it worked perfectly for us. He basically had Randy Brewer at 7-4 back completely off of Magic and try to take away all of Magic Johnson's post-ups and force him to shoot three-point shots, which at that time, you know, Magic was an incredible post-up player at the point guard position and not a very consistent three-point shooters. So he thought outside the box, although a lot of people thought he was old-school.

When you think about the warm-up, you think about, doing things like having Randy Brewer, guard, magic, or you think about the 131 when zone defenses weren't, we're not legal in the NBA. He was pretty creative and very, very innovative. This is obviously a question that I think of oftentimes during times I lost my dad four years ago. You lost yours 18 years ago. You've been through a lot, right, from being two times an NBA head coach. bouncing around as a college system, but now you've clearly made a mark in college. How often you think of him? Probably the same time you think, you know, as much as you think about your dad, Doug, I don't, you know, it never changes.

It's pretty interesting when I had my press conference, the first NBA job I had with Golden State, I think I was like 36 or something. and so I was in my brand new office, getting ready for the press conference to start. My mom was there with me along with one of my sons, and I broke down crying about 15 minutes before the press conference because my goal and what I wanted to do is I wanted to be the first father-son head coaches in the NBA. And at that time, you know, we were the only father-son head coaches. and since then the Malones have done it.

But I really wanted that as a goal. And when you're in high school and you say you want to be an NBA head coach, your dad's even rolling his eyes like, hey, that's awesome. But it's really hard. You've got to have a lot of breaks. It was a really emotional time for me. And, you know, the hardest thing when you lose a parent or a loved one, because for me, my dad was not only my idol, but he was my best friend.

and someone that I talked to every single day from the day that I left my first day going to the University of San Diego as a freshman. Not a day went by where I didn't pick up the phone and talk to my dad. Then all of a sudden sickness happens and he's gone in a short time. And, you know, the one thing, I just hope he's watching what's going on because it hasn't always been easy. You know, you get these two jobs at a young age in the NBA. and then you kind of got to resurrect your career

and figure out what direction it's going to go. You know, some people that are good friends of mine, like Tom Tibido, Tom was very frustrated not getting a head job until he was into his 50s. But yet when he got that job, you know, he was ready for it through, working for great coaches.

And sometimes younger coaches, you know, you climb up the ladder so quickly. And then all of a sudden the rug can get pulled out of you. But the great thing about that is when you get it back, the appreciation becomes tenfold. One thing you learned from Chuck Daly. Doug, that would take me. He was a second father to me.

What was it? How about this? How about this? He's really, he's fascinating to me, okay? Because he didn't play. And I'm always fascinated. Like, you were a player. I played.

Like, I do think it's, I've always had this, not negative perception, but I've struggled the few coaches I've struggled most with were with guys that didn't play. Like, I don't know there. Whereas I think there's a field. Chuck Dilley didn't play. On the other hand, he was great in college and even better in the pros. And I mean, people forget, he was the coach of the dream team. And there was no real arguing there in terms of when he got the job.

And he was like, well, somebody else should get it. He had an amazing way of handling superstars. And I'm just fascinated by Chuck Daly. He feels like the least. studied all-time great coach, I can think of. I don't know why that is. But when we point to great coaches, we talk obviously about Phil Jackson. We talk about Larry Brown.

I think some people talk about Rudy Tom Jonovich. You know, obviously read Arbach. I mean, kind of we go through him. I don't feel like Chuck Daly, and you, like you said, you were very close to him, and you've coached with him. Are there any nuggets that resonate the most with you? Well, number one, you're right about handling egos. the most incredible coach that I've ever seen with rapport with his players. An incredible people person, he could predict the future.

He would not just in a game, but in a season. His big thing was there's always going to be turbulence in every season, kind of like a pilot encounters turbulence when he flies a plane. and Coach Daly always said, you know, my job is to try to land the plane safely when the season ends. And he, there's just so many limits. For open, there was a night when Vernon Maxwell, who was on that magic team was struggling, and I kept saying, Coach, we got to get Vernon out of the game. He's killing us.

And a couple minutes went by, and Coach Daly called the time out when we went to huddle before. with the team. He winked at me, and he said, Mus, I'm going to tell you how you take Vernon Maxwell out of the game. And so we go into the huddle, and he diagrams a play for Vernon. The guys get up to go out of the huddle, and he says, hey, Vernon, I'm going to sub you out, and we're going to put Daryl Armstrong in. And Vernon's happy because he thought there was a play going to be run for him out of the timeout.

And so Vernon sits on the end of the bench, and then Chuck leans back, and he goes, Now, do you know what would have happened if I would have said a sub-down, live ball situation? He's on the other side of the floor. He's got to walk all the way down, 90 feet to the bench, and he'd be mumbling under his breath. And so he had all these little things, Doug, that he was phenomenal with. Horace Grant hated to practice.

And so Coach Daly went to him in training camp, and he said, hey, Horace, here's the deal. I know the year before Coach Daly, he was talking the year before, you got here, you wouldn't practice. Do this for me. Let me pull you out of practice when I know we're going to do something that you don't want to do or that's going to be strenuous on your body. I'll get you ready to play the games. You've got to go through stretching. You've got to suit up. You can't sit over there in ice. And so he had all these little ways that he dealt with guys and he was masterful in getting everybody to buy in to the good of the team.

That's amazing. Amazing. When you're with the Hawks, it was Lon Kruger. It didn't work. Did it not work because he was a college guy? Because he was, I've known, Lon played for my dad. My dad was the freshman coach and assistant varsity coach at Kansas State. I nearly went to play for Lon at Florida. I remember he also, he brought in some of his Florida guys.

And I felt like that, that was a mistake. Why didn't it work with Lon Kruh, who's literally won everywhere he's been? Like he has an amazing, Lon Kroo has an amazing track record. You go back and like, man, he won there. He won there. there, he went there, with exception of the NBA. Why didn't it work? Well, first of all, he is literally the nicest man that I've ever met and the best person

to work for. There wasn't a day that went by, Doug, that Coach Kruger did not allow me to go pick my sons up at the bus stop when they were very, very young. an incredible people person, an incredible basketball coach. But we had no talent. I mean, we drafted guys like DeMarre Johnson in the lottery. Dion Glover in the first round. Cal Baudler out of Old Dominion in the first round.

And so we, you know, and all those guys were great guys. It was Jimmy's and Joe's, right? We had no players. And I felt so bad for coached Kruger, because it was not only a young team, but it was a team that lacked talent. In reality, we had Jimmy Jackson, who was a really good player, obviously, and we had Jason Terry, who was a rookie, and who was trying to convert from an off guard to a point guard,

and obviously management, you know, they always like you to play the young guys. And so Coach Kruger was just put in what I thought was an impossible situation for anybody. You could add Chuck Daly, Phil Jackson, Red Arbach all on the staff, and that roster was not going to win. And you know what? Unfortunately, for several college coaches that are great X&O's coaches, they've been put in those positions. And it also happens with young coaches, their NBA assistants. And sometimes you get saddled with a roster that nobody can win with.

And the NBA, you've got to have players to win. And you obviously need it in college too, but if you don't have players that can manufacture shots in the NBA, you've got zero chance to win at a consistent level. When you took over with the Golden State Warriors, the problem was you guys were just too young, right? I mean, that was, like, Gilbert was, like, half crazy, but super, super talented. But he was, I'm going to say, like, 21 at the time. Jason Richardson, 21 at the time.

You know, Troy Murphy, who I think would have been better now than he was then, right? Anton Jameson was just coming into his prime. Like there were some other flaws within the roster, but was youth a big part of the issue? I mean, it was, but we, you know, the interesting thing, Doug, is we, you know, we had a 17 game improvement from the year before in year one. We were second in the NBA in scoring because I felt like we had to have an identity. We knew we had to try to somehow, you know, get free agents if ownership was willing to pay guys and have a style that people wanted to play. to add to our incredibly young, youthful team that was talented and fun. They were a great group of guys to be around.

You mentioned Arenas and Troy Murphy at the 4 and Jay Rich at the 2 and Jameson at the 3. But what happened was after the first year, we had a slight change in management. Some new guys were coming into the front office. Gilbert Arenas walks and goes as a free agent to Washington. And then Antoine Jameson, who was the guy that I was extremely close with and had high character, he and Eric Dampier both get traded. And they get traded for Avery Johnson, who's in the last year of his contract, Nick Van Exel, who was dealing with a ton of injuries and was at the end of his career,

and Popeye Jones, who was in the end of his career. and then the guy that I had relied on as a locker room piece, connection to the coaching staff was Earl Boykins, and Earl was from Cleveland, Ohio, where I had spent some time, and then Earl Boykins was let go via free agency, and Speedy Claxton was brought in, and so this fabric of connected coach and player,

it was gone, it was missing. And so our second year, we went from 38 wins to 37 wins, still respectable for where the warriors were at that time. And then there was a new general manager, Chris Mullen came in as a GM, and Gary St. Gene, who had hired me, was let go. And in the NBA, obviously, when there's a new general manager, things were going to happen. I remember I was reading up, and I know you had Hank Egan as your assistant one year. as a young assistant as well.

But you also, Jim Boylan was your assistant. Wasn't he with the Warriors one year? Yes, he was. Jim Boylan was with us and handled a lot of our defensive stuff. And then, you know, it's just so interesting. So many of the guys that, you know, Keith Smart was on that staff. And if you guys go on, I mean, Keith Smart was the head coach. He was on that staff.

Boylan was on that staff. But I ask you about Boylan because he just gets the, the bull's job and they get embarrassed and he wants them, you know, he's, he wants them to practice for two hours, which is kind of how we all grew up. But the NBA, as you point out with Chuck Daly is different. Like, you got to be careful, you know, you got to be careful in terms of how much, how much conflict you cause, especially when you just get the job. It's just, it's really interesting to watch what's kind of going on. Different teams, different NBA cultures, when you're trying to build toughness and winning mentality.

and hardworking mentality that, you know, since spending time with you and being a head coaching college, he's also spent time with Greg Popovich, like, his ability, I'll see if his ability to stick through this thing with Chicago. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because, you know, you bring up the word conflict or, you know, that's where guys like Chuck Daly separate themselves is their ability to kind of tow that line of getting your team to play hard. But in the middle of an NBA season, it is really difficult to have a two,

two and a half hour practice. Guys are tired and they're not used to that. You know, I think that, you know, a guy like Coach Tibado gets away with it, has success with it, whatever word you want to use, because that's who he is

and he's got a team from the very beginning who understands in training camp that this is how we're going to operate. When you do that in the NBA mid-season, it becomes very, very difficult. I went to Memphis with Coach Mike Furtello early November after the NBA season already started with Hubey Brown had retired from the Grizzlies. I can tell you what to do is a very, very fine line with, and it was just Mike Furtello and I were the only two new ones.

Everybody else stayed on the coaching staff. and Coach Fertello and I met a lot alone because we were, you know, the two new ones on that staff. And he talked a lot, Doug, about how he wanted to slowly progress into his philosophy. And he was friends with Jube Brown and had great respect for him. And so he did not want to change a lot really quickly, even though there were some things that eventually he wanted to get to. that were different philosophically. And so it is a very, very, it's a balancing act that you've got to have as a coach, especially when you come in mid-year.

You got the job with the Sacramento Kings that only lasted a year. When it was, when it was over, was there ever this thought, I'm not going to get back? Like, I'm not, I mean, what's, you know, it's like you can lose one job in the NBA because, as you said, a lot of times you take your first job, you don't have talent. and then you take the war back when you took the king's job that thing was a mess everybody knew it was a mess it went through five years of being a mess until now they're fairly stable but when you when you lost the king's job did you think this might not happen for me again i did uh no question Doug i think that uh you know the warrior's situation for me uh because up until a couple months ago i still had a home in the bay area last night I went and watched my son who's got his senior year in high school over there.

You know, when I go work out in the Bay Area, I still wear my Warriors stuff. Warriors fans are incredible. I love going into their arena and watching them play. Sacramento is just a completely different situation. You know, I felt like I failed because it was only one year. We didn't, you know, they had great success. under coach Adelman and obviously Rick is a Hall of Fame type coach.

And I learned, you know, when you replace a great coach, it's a lot harder than when you replace a program or an organization that's really, really down. Like the Warriors were so far down, it was just about, hey, how do we get them to play hard? How do we get respect to the referees? How do we get the warrior brand to be respect? and when you go into a situation like the Kings, like they had very laid-back practices before I got there. And they had success doing it. They had success with certain superstars not even showing up for shoot-around.

So when I was hired, the Maluf was intrigued by what we could do as a staff based on discipline. But then once we got in there, we expected everybody to come to practice and show up on time. the Maloos actually kind of wanted to, the players to enjoy a situation. And if a guy showed up late, it was cool. It was all right. And so that was a hard. Everybody says they want discipline until they actually have to go through discipline, right? Exactly.

And this is really what Boylan's going through is, is Paxson has told him like, hey, I got your back. You know, this is what we need. We need to get back to hard practice and being tougher. and we're like, all right, fine. And all of a sudden, now the players push back. You're like, wait a second. Whose side do you have in this one? And, you know, back when the Maloos were in charge, you know, here they are,

spent half their time in Vegas and hanging out with the players in Vegas. And that makes it kind of a toxic job to keep, no? No, it was really difficult. And that's why there were so many coaches during the short time frame after coach Rick that were not successful from Reggie Theist to myself to keep smart. just so many guys that really struggled there. But getting back to your question, Doug, at that point, I knew that I still had three years coming from a pay standpoint.

I had just gone through a recent divorce, and my thing was, you know what, how do I just become a dad? How do I connect with my two sons? There was missed time when I was in Memphis as an assistant coach with the Grizzlies. and my sole focus was I want to hang out with my kids I don't want to miss any games I don't want to miss a little league game

I want to be an assistant coach on my son little league team and I went and did all that and then after two years going into my third year I was in carpool lane dropping my oldest son off

at junior high and I looked around and it was a lot of moms that weren't working in a pretty affluent area of Danville, California. And I was the only dad because I knew that there was so many people at work at that time. And I said, you know what? I mean, I've reconnected with my sons. My sons want me to work.

And then it was actually my current wife, Danielle, who I met in that three-year time frame. And she said, hey, you love coaching. And she actually kind of sacrificed her own. career for me to go back and coach in the D-League with the Reno Big Horns. And I can promise you, Doug, that my pay with the Reno Big Horns was not even half of what she was making at the time. And she sacrificed and would get on a plane and go do her work in L.A. while we were in Reno.

But, yeah, I knew two times being an NBA head coach, I did a lot of research on how many coaches get a third opportunity at that level to be a head coach. And it's very few. Terry Stott's is one of the few guys that got a third opportunity without a ton of wins and losses in its first two stops. And so I knew, you know, and that's when I decided after two years in the D-League, we had two great years in the D-League, and I did not get the coaching call up as a head coach.

I did have some assistant coaching opportunities. but wanted to be a head coach, and then that's how this door got open to the collegiate game. And look, you work for a good man, but one had that up until they re-uped your contract, you know, Nevada didn't have a ton of money. Has it, I mean, obviously you guys are as good in comparison to the rest of the country as anyone could have possibly hoped, but is this how you thought it would be? Did you think it would have to be a bunch of transfers? and, you know, kind of mismatch parts.

I mean, you guys don't actually shoot the three that well. Like, is this, if I was to ask you honestly, 2015, Doug Neuth announces you as head coach, and fast forward to today and you're a top 10 team, is this the path you thought it would take Nevada to be back? You know, I think the first way to answer that, Doug, is, so I think the highest my dad's team was ever ranked was like 12th. And again, that's my idol.

So, and I'm as an assistant at Arizona State, and I'm an assistant at LSU with great facilities and great boosters and name brand. And so in those three short years as an assistant coach, I'm thinking it's really hard to get in the top 25. Like when we got in the top 25 at those two places, like it was a celebration. And then, you know, when you're at those schools, you figure out how hard it is just to get into. to the NCAA tournament, let alone win a game. And so to say that, yeah, when Doug Newton, President Johnson made the decision to hire and to give us an opportunity, it was my first time as a head coach in college,

I hadn't proven myself as a recruiter. You know, basically in my previous stops at LSU and Arizona State recruiting was, was, you know, if I'd helped in that area, great, but that's not why I was on those staffs. It was, from an X&O standpoint, player development on-floor stuff, more so than anything recruiting-wise. But we did have a plan. I was really lucky that I got to be an assistant coach before a head coach. I would have failed miserably, Doug, if I would have had an opportunity without the assistant coaching role.

I probably would have lasted one or two years, but I got to see things I like, things that I might tweak. And so it was great. And I felt like how do we get as good as we can be in year four, knowing this college is somewhat of an unspoken four-year cycle, and how could we be as good as we possibly could as quickly, but yet with sustainability?

And so we are really, really fortunate to get two PAC-12 commits, and Lindsay Drew and Cameron Oliver in year one. And people forget that those two guys, those two incoming freshmen, were really the springboard to all this, because the Jordan Carolines and the Marcus Marshals, those guys all sat out the first year. And obviously in year two to have a guy like Caroline come and play and changes things.

But we wanted to get incoming freshmen and we wanted to get transfers. And we were able to do that year one with Drew and Oliver. And then we were able to do that year two with DeVurl Ramsey, who has since transferred, as well as Josh Hall, who has since transferred, along with the transfers. And then obviously getting George Brown as a five-star kind of changed us from a perception standpoint, you know, the landscape of highly recruited players and what Nevada could potentially do. You know, it's interesting you bring up the transfers. I mean, Cam Oliver was with my brother at Oregon State for, I think it was three days before he.

I think that's what it was. It was like three, he was literally there three days. And then he's like, no, this is not for me. And then he ends up playing for you and being everything you possibly could have hoped for. But you mentioned guys leaving. Like, look, you've been through this. This is the longest you've stayed anywhere since. I'm going to say Rapid City, right?

Yes. And so how do you handle that? How do you handle all of the moving parts, which a lot of the old school, longtime college guys, I think it hurts fans because fans, you're like, wait, who's playing where now? That's very hard. And a lot of the old school coaches, like, this is crazy all the movement. It seems like you function a little bit better in chaos.

You've had a new staff. I think every year you've been. How do you function in that chaos when so many others struggle? I think the biggest thing, Doug, and you can attest to it, is when you're in the violent lead, it's chaos every day. All right, your best player gets called up. You've got to readjust your offense, your defense. By the way, two days later, another player gets called up. And then a week and a half later, your third best player goes to Europe.

And so I think I do operate really well in the chaos just because that's the life that I had for so long. But so when I grew up, when you grew up, there weren't a ton, although I know you did, there weren't a ton of transfers. Like when I played at USDA in four years, we had one player of transfer, but obviously with over 800 players now, it's a different landscape. And it's so interesting because last year Johnny Jones was on our staff, and that's who I worked with at LSU. And Coach Jones had so many highly recruited players. that he was able to land right out of high school. And, you know, he would laugh at me and say, Coach, you keep talking about, you know, all these transfer recruits.

We've got to get high school guys. And then Coach Jones gets the head coaching job at Texas Southern. And I look at his roster now. He's got all transfers. They're all transfers. But so I think it's just the nature of where our sport is. And it's not just basketball. I mean, you look at all the football college grad transfer of quarterbacks.

Some guys that had no opportunity at other places, and then they go to, it could be another Power 5 school, and they end up turning their career around and opening up, you know, new doors to play in the NFL. And the same thing has happening at this college level as well. Why wasn't Fennas Dembo as good as advertised? You coached him. Fennis Dembo was on the cover of Sports Illustrated and probably, Probably people our age, Doug remember that.

He was, Fennis Dembo was a character. On that Rapid City team, I had both Fennis Dembo and Derek Cheebius, and Derek was known as the Band-Aid man. He would put a Band-Aid somewhere on his body prior to every game, and he would spend 20 minutes in front of the mirror strategically deciding where he wanted to put it. If he didn't play well, in the first half, the Band-Aid would change to another spot. But both Fennis Dembo and Derek were two of the all-time great characters. Fennis Dembo did not stick in the NBA.

I would say because he was 6'4-foot-4, lacked lateral speed, was very strong player physically, but just from a defensive standpoint, laterally, did not have what the NBA level looks for. What was Minute Bow like to coach? Oh, Manute Bowl was awesome. The only problem was when he played for Coach Don Nelson, Coach Nelson loved him to shoot the three ball. When he shot the three ball for me with the Florida Beach dogs in West Paul Beach, I would cringe.

But he was a fun-loving guy. Obviously, prior to me getting him, he had all this NBA experience, and he had NBA money, and I would say the new bowl was the most generous person financially with his teammates than anybody I've ever seen. You had, people forget, you had Jeremy Lynn the year before Lynn Sanity. Now, I called his college game, and I liked him, and he almost beat, I think he almost beat Yukon kind of, kind of by himself. But if you would have told me that he would have Lin Sanity, and granted, it's since the

knee injuries come back down to Earth, he's more of a bench player, you know, a guy comes off the bench, but did you know that Jeremy Lynn had in him what we've seen in him in moments in the NBA? It's really interesting because, you know, when the warriors sent him down, you know, I was unfamiliar with his game because he had not gotten much NBA burn and I had not watched him in college much. Jeremy Lynn, when he was completely healthy when we had it, his nose for loose balls, his ability to rebound the ball and push it on the break

and his ability to dribble drive with his right hand and get to the cup or get fouled far surpassed anybody in the D-League. Now, he wasn't a great shooter. He wasn't a good ball handler going to his left hand, but he did a few things that were really special. And as you know, Doug, like the key to the NBA is can you do one or two things that are great?

and if you can, people find a niche for you and because he has good size. And some of it's also timing and who you play for. There's a couple things. For you, do you only do those things you do well? Like a lot of guys, like my thing was, I couldn't shoot. And I got to this point where I'm like, I'm going to prove to people I could shoot.

Like, no, no, we know you can't ship. You can really just pass, just, right? So you struggle with that. On the other hand, remember, when he had Linsanity, he played for the perfect coach in Dan Tony, and they didn't have Mello for that time. period. So there was nobody calling for the ball in the lane. He had Tyson, Shane, or like, greatest teammate ever who just

screen roll, right? They didn't have a Mari Stodomier either, so there's nobody who else needs the ball, and he could play through turnovers. And he was also a high turnover guy, even though he would make a lot of plays, you wouldn't make a lot of negative plays, and Dan Tony let him play through it. So it's a lot about knowing yourself, but also having a coach that sees what you have and kind of puts you in the right system for what you have. Fair? I don't think there's any doubt. That's more than fair. You know, I look back at a guy like Sidney Lowe who couldn't shoot, but he played for

my dad. My dad wanted Sidney just to run the offense, didn't want his point guard taking shots. And so that was a perfect marriage for Sidney Lowe to play in the NBA, and he probably doesn't really make the NBA, you know, if that's not the case. And I look at a guy like Scotty Brooks at his size, and you know Doug growing up in Southern Southern California. I mean, people never thought Scotty Brooks was going to play in the NBA

when he was at Irvine, and he left TCU because he got home sick and went and go back to Southern California. No, he was a Modesto guy. He was a Modesto guy. Exactly, but playing at Irvine. You know, people thought he was a really good college player, but because he had this incredible

toughness and grit, it fit perfectly with my dad, and he played great with the expansion team and then Philly picks him up in the expansion draft and he has an NBA career. So I think you're right. Really fit player in a system and player with certain coaches really work out for the player. Last thing. And I think, you know, how you use Jordan Caroline playing often as your center, perfect example,

how you use the Martin Twins. And the fact that at your level, you know, they might not have gotten. They didn't get those opportunities when they're at NC State to handle the ball as much as they have and to have a coach who puts a system around them. Last thing, I know you've got to go. Have you realized where the Final Four is this year? I have because I still have family in Minneapolis. Okay, so here's...

So here's the question. I mean, like, look, to take Nevada to the Final Four would be incredible. To be incredible. To take Nevada to the Final Four in the Twin Cities, in that dome, where your dad was a college coach, your dad was a pro coach what I mean there would have to be a little bit of special meaning

to doing it there wouldn't it? I would think so but as you know better than anybody the key is how do we win our next game how do we win the game after that and the one thing that's you know that I think is really

important for us and for our team is how do you win the next game and then how do you keep in perspective that we still got to figure out a way to get into that tournament. Sure. Because in the Mountain West, we don't know. There might only be one team in that, you know, in our conference.

And we have to put ourselves in a position where, number one, we make the tournament. And then if that is the case, then how do you put yourself, obviously, in the best position to get as high as seed? It all becomes matchups. And once you get there, there's so much luck involved. And we saw that last year. I mean, we had matchups that worked for us. Texas has Mobamba and at 7 foot 2 or whatever.

We have a center at 6 foot 5. And so it was a good matchup for us. And we just got to worry about how can we win this conference because it's going to be really hard when we go on the road for sure with the travel and not many charter flights. We got our work cut out for us the rest of these next 20 games. No, I know. I know.

And I know that you focus on every game. And, of course, you got break coming up. And so you've got to worry about how often do we go two a days, whatever. I just, the second I knew we were going to talk, I was thinking about Minneapolis and thinking about your pops and thinking about what it would mean for him to see you on that floor with your team and what an amazing kind of journey it's been. So I appreciate you encapsulating as much of it as time permitted.

And thanks so much for your time. And I wish you nothing but health and success this year with you and your family. Thanks for joining us on the pod. no thank you so much Doug and i got to tell you before we get off like your dad had such an impact on all coaches especially uh coaches my age and older uh what your family's done in basketball is really really cool it's had such an impact on so many people uh you and your brother probably don't even know and i had to get that in before we get off and i'd love to do it again with you sometimes yeah we'll do it again well i still there's a bunch of other stuff i wanted to get to

By the way, my brother told me to not tell anybody, but he did, you know, he interviewed obviously for the job when you got it. And he said you were the, or you told him he was the first call he made. First call you made was to offer him to come be on your staff. And I just told me, no, that was the problem. But I did try. No, he's a good one. But obviously they made an incredible hire and you've done a, as good a job as anyone could have thought you've done. You've obviously, you know, overachied based upon anybody's reasonable expectations.

limitations. Nothing but success to you. Say hi to Danielle for me and we'll talk soon. Sounds great. Thanks again, Doug. Look, I could go through a run through of Kevin Durant and his interviews. I could talk about LeBron James and how the Lakers are changing and evolving and maybe Brandon Ingram becomes an even more viable trade pieces they've played as well or better without him or how interesting it is that the media is buying into the Clippers going after going to get Kauai Leonard or or Kevin Durant. But I don't know, that discussion, that talk with Eric Musselman was so good,

we'll just leave it at that. You check back in next week. Make sure you download, subscribe, and rate our podcast. Check out the Daily Doug Gottlieb show. We talk about all of these topics. At Gottlieb show, you can follow me on Twitter. Listen on Sirius XM Channel 203. That's on XM, 217 on Sirius.

Listen to us 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 123 Pacific. Go to Fox Sports Radio.com. for any of our hundreds of affiliates that are growing nationwide. Thanks so much for listening. This has been All Ball. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moment. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed human.