The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb: Jazz struggles and Donovan Mitchell's sophomore slump; Lakers, Warriors, Celtics early season analysis; College squads Doug's seen up-close

Episode Date: December 1, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as an TV analyst and radio host. This week Gottlieb looks at Donovan Mitchell's sophomore slump why teammates are beginning to resent him, his early season analysis of the Lakers, Warriors and Celtics, and the truth about LeBron and Luke Walton's relationship from sources inside the Lakers. He also takes an in-depth look at college teams he's seen in the gym, answers listener questions, and talks with former All-American and NBA vet Casey Jacobsen. Follow Doug on twitter and submit podcast questions at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest All Ball content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this be a million dollar fraud? But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me?

Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome into All Ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb, all basketball all the time. And for this podcast, I thought we'd do something a little bit different. You've heard me have long-form interviews with Jay Billis. You, of course, can download that and listen to it with Randy Bennett, with a Ron Gannot. With a lot of different people, we've had some more long form.

We've also had some guys who are kind of like boots on the ground covering different teams and gotten their thoughts. So here's what I want to do with like this week's All Ball podcast. Okay. I ask you to send in questions and I have questions, frankly, from a lot of guys that I really, really like in the business. And then from some of you that I don't like, no, I'm kidding, from people that are just listening and want to know.

and the response has been great. And so I'll get to answer as many of those as possible. And I'll even give you a shout out here on the podcast. And then I also wanted to, I've seen a bunch of basketball games recently. Like a bunch. I called eight games, Cayman Islands. I saw eight teams play in Las Vegas. I've done other college basketball games as well.

So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you some headline, some college basketball headlines. I'm going to give you a little bit of depth on several of the teams that I have a little bit of depth on. That's really the idea. Like, yo, dude, I saw these teams. I talked to the coach. I talked to people watching the team, et cetera, et cetera.

And you might be interested in it. I'm not going to go long form on it, but I got stuff on Nevada for it for you. an interesting team. I got stuff on Texas. Interesting team. North Carolina. Interesting team. Michigan State.

I think interesting team. UCLA. Interesting team. The PAC 12 in general. I got some stuff on for you. Who else? I've seen Creighton. I've seen Boise State.

I've seen Illinois State. Who else? Clemson. Clemson. Missouri. No, no. No. Southern Illinois, UMass, Tulsa.

I've seen a lot of bass. Xavier. And then I have some Lakers stuff for you. I have some thoughts for you on the Celtics and the jazz. Utah people don't seem to like me. Listen, let me start with the Utah Jazz. I'll get to a bunch of your questions.

So what I said, what I tweeted out, and I think this is going back to like Sunday night, was basically like, look, they're a mess right now. And one of the reasons their mess is that Donovan Mitchell, there's a little bit of resentment towards Donovan Mitchell this year. They are 9 and 12 that is tied for next to last place in the West. And look, I'm not an idiot. I understand that a good portion of their games have been played on the road,

more games on the road than at home. And they're a very good home team. Plus, you have altitude. And when Mitchell comes back healthy, the thought is that they'll be better. That's reasonable expectations. It should be pointed out that they lost by 50 with Donovan Mitchell to the Grizzly, to the, excuse me, to the Mavericks. Then he took 35 shots the next game against the 76ers.

And so when I say, and then they came back and they beat the Celtics at home. No, they beat the Celtics, excuse me, on the road. Then they came back and beat the Celtics on the road. So when I say they resent him, I don't mean. that they don't want to be around him, that they don't like him. But here's the way it works in the reality of the NBA. And I'm sorry if you on Twitter think that the world is black and white, it's really more gray. And you have to, one, watch tape, watch the games, talk to people in the NBA.

And here's the thing. There's a Brad Stevens quote. And it's something along the lines of you can't be a great team when your best player is not your best teammate. And my brother, who's an assistant coach at Oregon State, you guys have heard him on the All Bob podcast. His way of expressing it is, you are who your best player is. And because Donovan Mitchell had such an outstanding first year and because the belief

is that you make your biggest jump from first year to second year, that he was handed the conch. If he was a conch or conch, I don't know. He was handed the leadership role of the Utah Jazz because he was awesome. And you're going to get better. Everybody takes a jump. But a little bit of this is like, a little bit of this is like, you know, whether it's Vince Young or RG3, you know, guys adjust to how you play. Donovan Mitchell is a below 30 percent three-point shooter. Donovan Mitchell is a scoring guard, but in a league where scoring guards average between four and seven assists a game, he averages, you know, uh, three point seven assists a game. That's a, excuse my language, are you fucking kidding me, stat, right?

That's one of those, hey, dude, you got to get other people involved. And he's a tremendous driver. And we've seen the, we've seen how quickly he can. elevate, how he can dunk on people, and he's been rewarded as such with so much attention. So when I say resented, it's watch the games, and there are times where he's not moving the basketball. Their offensive style is where, you know, when Quinn runs sets, they start at one side, they go to the other side, sometimes they come back to the third side, and then they get into an action, which is trying to create a mismatch for whoever has the basketball, or

a mismatch so that Rubio can drive in, draw help, and then kick to Rudy Gobert, roll into the rim, or kick to Joe Ingalls in the corner for a three, or then get the ball to Donovan Mitchell who has a guy who can't guard him. And there are times in which the ball sticks a little bit too much in his hands. He's struggling with his shooting. He's shooting below 42% for the year. I mentioned below 30% from three. These are bad numbers, and he's not moving the basketball. Additionally, you are who your best player is. There are times in which he's not even close to buying in defensively.

And so when you're a, I don't know, he's 21-year-old kid, right? When you're a kid, a 22-year-old, right, when you're a guy who just turned 22, and everybody's telling you that you're the greatest player ever, you're the rookie of the year last year, you know, regardless Ben Simmons shouldn't have been because he redshirted a year, which is a valid argument, by the way. You have to be better than everyone or give more effort than anyone defensively. It's not fair. But I'm a coach's kid.

My dad was a coach. And my dad used to yell at me. And now I yell at my own son. And I don't yell at other people at practice. And I've had to have this discussion with him. Like, look, sorry, man. You know, you get more opportunities than anybody else because I'm your dad, because I'm the coach. And so that's just kind of the way it is.

Well, Donovan Mitchell, he's not a coach's kid, but because he's seen as a budding star, like, yo, dude, you've got to buy in more. You've got to take more criticism for your defense, for your shot selection. You've got to take more ownership of things when things aren't going well, and he hasn't done it. So when I say that they resent him some,

it means watch their body length. when Mitchell goes one-on-one, takes a long two, long-contested two, misses, then gives up a bucket at the other end, and their body language is, again, excuse my language, fuck that guy. And it doesn't mean that they don't like him in general, but just in the moment of the game, they're like, yo, this is whack. This is just whack. And that's the reality of it.

I mentioned Kyle Cousman went through this last year with the Lakers. Coos came from nowhere. was blowing up, playing, you know, scoring, and people fall in love with box scores and with guys making jump shots and scoring 20 points a game. And they don't actually know how to, maybe they don't know how to watch basketball.

They just watch highlights, or they just read the box scores. They just get on to Twitter and like, oh, he put up. And so last year, the Lakers chemistry wasn't as good. They had some older players. He was playing as a backup, so he's playing against backups. And he wasn't doing anything at the defense event and guys resented the attention that he was getting

because he wasn't giving all of this effort the defensive end. That's part of what's going on with Utah. In addition to which the rest of the West right now is choosing to be competitive. Remember, last year we had way more teams trying to be bad than we've had so far this season. And we haven't reached the midway point where teams decide, hey, we're not going to have, we've got to start tanking. But this is a team where people have figured stuff out.

They just have, and they're exposing them as such, that, you know, Mitchell not shooting a great percentage. You know, Ingle's as tough as he is and how much as he can get on a role and as good a shooter as he is, you know, there's some limitations to what Ingalls can do defensively. Obviously, we know the issues that Ricky Rubio has shooting the basketball. Jay Crowder not shooting the ball well. You know, Derek Favors is kind of, he's a guy who the league is kind of evolved. past him and he's trying to catch up and trying to develop into a perimeter shooter, but that's not what he is or what he's ever been.

You know, even Alex Burks, you know, like doesn't take great shots. Like you kind of go down the line. They're playing, you know, Dante Exum is a guy who can be a great defender, but you force him into minutes. He's not a great offensive player. It doesn't have great skill in a league where shooting and skill and guarding the basketball, containing the basketball matter, they're missing in several key spots.

You know, it's funny. Rubio actually gets criticized as a bad defender. Ask people in the league. Look at the analytics. Rubio is actually a pretty darn good defender. That's the crazy part about it. You know, because he's white and he's a Spaniard, he's a Euro. There's a sense that he's got to not be a good defensive player,

and that actually isn't the case. Whereas Donovan Mitchell, who's more athletic from the state. States from Connecticut, from a good college program. The thought is he should be a better defender. And he's not. And remember, he's guarding the best players in the world who play, you know, the best scores in the world. It's hard.

They're coming at you just like you're coming at them. So we circle back to what's wrong with the jazz, a lot of stuff. Mitchell being hurt, that's an issue. But also the chemical makeup of a guy who has been given kind of the keys to the kingdom and doesn't understand that he has to improve as a shooter, has to improve in terms of a shot selection, but also has to buy in at the defensive end because you can't fool your teammates. You can't fool players in the NBA. You just can't. All right, let me get to a couple of these questions here. Hunter Mayhan. Hunter Mayhan is a professional golfer. He has 300 and

Hunter, how do you have more followers than I have on Twitter? I don't understand. He's an awesome follow. But that's really amazing. Hunter Mayhan. 324,000 followers. He says, what do you do with Brandon Ingram? So if you watch the Lakers as much as I have, you may have grown frustrated with Brandon Ingram.

You're like, man, he looks like Kevin Durant, but he doesn't play like Kevin Durant. You're right. You're right. Now, there's a couple things. One, Ingram struggles some playing with LeBron because he doesn't have the ball in his hands a lot when he's playing with LeBron.

He's just not going to have it. And he's not a good enough, comfortable enough three-point shooter to space beyond three-point range. So he forces some mid-range twos, and he's not good enough at that. I think the Lakers probably let it play out and see how he evolves, his level of comfort, if they can give him more minutes on his own, especially as they've had so many injuries with their two point guards and have him play some backup point, which is what he did last year,

or have him at least handle the ball a little bit more within the half-court offense. But remember, the only two people that are in that locker room that weren't acquired by Magic Johnson or Rob Polinka are Luke and Brandon Ingram. And they actually really like Luke. I think he's very well respected. I don't know if he ultimately, you know, sees the Lakers to the heights of winning a championship or not. But I don't think that Luke is the one to go first.

I think it's Brandon Ingram. But there's this, hey, why don't you just trade for Brad Beale? Well, you know, the Wizards have to want to trade Brad Beal in order to trade for Brad Beal. And they have to want Brandon Ingram in return. Like, all of these things have to line up. Like, wow, we don't like Brandon Ingram. So let's give him to the Wizards who, somehow they'll be blinded by Brandon Ingram and think we don't know what we're doing.

They have this game Saturday reports. They watch the same games. The Wizards want to get rid of John Wall more than they want to get rid of Brad Beale. So what do I do at Brandon Ingram? Oh, I personally, I move him. I think they would have moved him this last offseason for Kauai Leonard to the Spurs if that deal could have been made. The problem was the Spurs said, hey, we want Brandon Ingram, but we won Kuzma.

and we want Josh Hart too. All of these imaginary trades that are completely one-sided, it sounds really good on Twitter and on radio shows. The reality of it is that's not the way it works. I know he's young. I know he's still learning to play with LeBron. I know he's still kind of growing into his body, and he made a ton of gains in terms of his athleticism and strength.

And I think he does have some of the things that you want to check off in terms of long-term being a sustainable player in the NBA. and if you get rid of him, you have to fill in with somebody who can do all the other little things he can do. Like, Cal Cusman's not really a starter in my mind. He's just better as a sixth man. But if Cusma ends up replacing him, you know, where else can you find that sort of ball handling and creativity within the lineup?

I just think right now it's still so early playing with LeBron. And it's so much different than how they have played. And the games are on a game by game basis so much more important. I just don't think you can make any freak out reaction over 20 games. It doesn't mean that I believe long-term Brandon Ingram is a star in this league. I think he's a little bit of a tease for my perspective. But I also think that playing with LeBron, playing with some of these older guys, who I've been told are all great chemistry guys,

but guys that are also giving him so many instructions, his head is spinning. Do I listen to these guys or do my own thing? It's just too early to make any concrete assessment over what you have even yet. You're like 20 games isn't that enough. Look, 20 games in, I don't think Josh Hart can be your starting two guard or guard. If you have Rondo or Lonzo, like, that's just not, that's just not. I think Josh Hart's incredibly valuable. And if he and Kuzma are coming off your bench, I do your, and you have a vet like Tyson.

and Chandler, like, that's a good bench, a really good bench. But if he's a starter, because LeBron doesn't guard like he used to, now he's a lot of times guarding sometimes the best wing player. And Josh Hart's just not that he's really strong and he's tough and he's smart and he's a winner and he'll make shots. But man, he's just not, we talked about Donovan Mitchell. Like he's just not that caliber of, he just does not have that sort of caliber of athleticism and he can't make the guy pay at the other end.

has to play off of others and score energy points, downhill buckets, or catch and shoot corner threes. And so if it's me, like, I think Hart is more of a bench player, okay? A really good six, seven, man. Same thing with coos. And then you get to the, do you have the answer with Lonzo Ball and with Rondo at the point car position? So there's a lot of moving targets there. But I also think that the Lakers know all this stuff, right? There's a reason. that they wanted KCP. They thought, well, he's a guy who could be a starter. So, um, anyway. Anyway, um, that's my, those are my Laker thoughts at the moment. I think from what I've been told

inside the Lakers, like their assessment of Rondo is they love them. They love every part about his competitiveness, his basketball intellect, is willing to share, is willing to work with the coaches. there's not a guy that they're not really happy with as a person on the roster, which is a dramatic change from last year. Last year they had all, remember Lual Dang, they told him, hey dude, stop coming to practice for a while because we don't like exactly what's happening here with Julius Randall. And eventually they got Julius Randall to buy in. But Randall had his limitations. And then, you know, some of the other guys that were jettisoned or even brought in an Isaiah Thomas and some of his comments.

and this year, what the Lakers have tried to do is bring in LeBron and change the chemistry and the culture of the place. And that's a really hard thing to do in any sport at any level, but even harder to do in the NBA. And they feel like they've accomplished that. Now, are they good enough? No, like, I'm broadcasting here. I'm taping this on a Wednesday, and they just got their asses handed to them by the Denver Nuggets, you know, where LeBron looked awful. and whether it was altitude or they went out late or they just didn't have it,

they couldn't have looked worse. They're not winning NBA championship of this roster. But they have changed the culture and the dynamic of how they do things and how they are going to create kind of the next really good Lakers team. I think that, whether it's Anthony Davis and then another player, there will be additions made, but I don't expect them to be made in the immediate future. Let me get to two other NBA teams. And then we'll turn to most of your questions, which are a lot of them are college questions.

And I give you some of my thoughts on various college teams. The Golden State Warriors. The stat is that the Golden State Warriors are 10 and 2 with Steph and they're 500 without Steph. How come nobody's pointing out the fact they don't have Draymond Green currently either? Right. It's like, oh, yeah, we didn't mention that. And this current roster is playing without three starters, without DeMarcus cousins. Without DeMarcus cousins.

So you take three starters off any team. Granted, and then what I believe would be the, I mean, and this is also a front-loaded team. Right. Whereas, like, if you took three starters off, let's just say the Lakers. Right. You took Javel out of their starting lineup. So you had to start, you know, Tyson Chandler or maybe you start LeBron big or you start Kuzman Big. Let's say you take

Rondo out, you take Javelle out, and you take KCP out. There's not nearly the drop-off because of the way in which that roster is constructed. This roster is constructed totally differently. It's totally front-loaded with K.D.,

Steph Curry, and Clay Thompson and Draymond Green. And then you do get DeMarcus cousins on the cheap, but they're not really able to replace DeMarcus Cousins. Like Jones, the kid from Vanderbilt, he stinks. But when DeMarcus Cousins is back, he's not really even their second center.

He's really more their third center. They got Kvon Looney as well. But remember, the Warriors will start with DeMarcus Cousins. And then their backup center is really Draymond Green, who they slide over. So a lot of it is about roster construction. And people are disingenuous, especially media members, are really disingenuous. ingenuous about the, well, you know, Kevin Durant's not that important because when you don't have Steph Curry, you lose and when you don't have Kevin Durant, like, all right, well, who else was

playing? Who else was on the roster? Who did they actually play? Like, all that stuff matters. We just said that with the Utah Jazz. Like, are the Utah Jazz really the second worst team in the Western Conference? No. But they've had some injuries. They're not as good as they would have thought. And oh, yeah, by the way, their schedule has been ridiculous where they've played way more road games and they have home games. And it's not just the road games, but who you're actually playing on the road. Everybody knows that who actually follows the NBA. Are you getting, are you playing the Atlanta Hawks twice in four days?

Or are you playing the Celtics, the Raptors, you know, a team that's a surprise, like the Pistons, like all of these things. Are you playing, when are you playing a team on the second part of a back-to-back? So I'll tell you this. I've watched KD as he has gotten comfortable being the alpha without those guys. And he was unbelievable the last three games. Unbelievable. He had 49 in their last win against the Orlando Magic.

And I don't think the Magic are great, but they've been a surprise team, beating the Lakers twice. They've been in first place in their division in the Atlantic. He was magnificent. But I think what this is is, is because people have soured on Kevin Durant because of the social media stuff, because he told the fan in the front row to F off, that we're looking for stats to somehow diminish how good he is.

Look, you can spin it however you want. Here's the reality of it. Here's reality of it. He is in his prime and maybe still in his, maybe going to be in his prime for several years. LeBron looks to have been at least slightly out of his prime, although his skill level is amazing. He can't do it every night the way he used to.

And going back over the last two years in the NBA finals, matching up against LeBron James, whether you had a better surrounding team or not an inferior surrounding team, Kevin Rant was the better player in the second half of 95% of NBA finals games. Game one probably notwithstanding last year in the NBA Finals. when LeBron was amazing and J.R. Smith for, you know, you screwed up. So you can tell me that, hey, Kevin Durant sucks. Steph Curry is more important.

Steph Curry is a freak of nature as a shooter and he makes incredible passes. He's not a good defender. He's clever getting steals and he's better maybe than anyone could have thought he'd be defensively, but he's not. Like there's a reason they switch every screen with the exception of Steph Curry because they're trying to hide Curry. and he's a he's a high volume passer that turns it over a lot and you know when they needed a bucket they turned to kd they turn to kd people forget the kd carried them in the playoffs last year when

step wasn't healthy are they going to be as good without step no he's he's a first ballot hall of famer but i would tell you that kevin rant is a better all-around player and while you can throw out a all that matters is wins and losses and step's team, there's a lot of other mitigating factors as to, like I'd love to know the win percentage of who they played when Steph's, you know, Steph's win total was better, who played with him, not just top couple guys, but the entirety of the roster. There's a lot of other factors that go into it. The other part that's really important to mention is the Warriors are going to have all three

of those starters back. And if they're healthy, this very competitive NBA we've seen so far is not going to be that competitive in the playoffs. The only really interesting part, or maybe two interesting parts about the Warriors, is do they leave DeMarcus cousins on the floor when they used to go small ball? And how does the whole KD, Steph, Clay thing work, you know, as we kind of go down the stretch. But Andre Godala at some point will be over the hill. It looked that way last year in the regular season. He missed most of the playoffs, but he was incredibly important because he's so smart.

and he can just make one shot to keep you, and then Sean Livingston at some point it's going to be over the hill. All those parts aren't factored into. They're playing more minutes, especially Aguadala, when the other three starters are out. So I think the Warriors are still substantially better

when healthy. I don't know if they'll remain healthy, and I don't know if they get exposed for having such a weak bench and so many other aging pieces outside of their big three. And we don't know what DeMarcus Cousins like coming off of Achilles tendon surgery.

Not just that, but how does he fit in to how they want to play? Can he guard? When they've beaten people, when they've won championships, they've done so playing small ball. Play big at the start of the game. And they've had ego-less centers like Jaja, like Andrew Bogot. Bogot was a great passer, great screener. And that's not how DeMarcus Cousins plays. Will he buy into the way in which they want to play?

We'll see. And then you have the Celtics who have been bad, considering their presumed talent, they've been bad. We're going to have to at least at some point take a breath and realize maybe their talent's not that good. I think Brad gets it together. I think they got some scary Terry and his desire to be a starter elsewhere, even though I'm not sure the league. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the league doesn't view him as a starter on a good team.

Like Scary Terry, I'm sure it hurts their. chemical makeup. It doesn't help that Scary Terry wants the contract that Marcus Smart has, and Marcus Smart continues to play the exact same way he played before he got the contract, even though he can't shoot.

He still keeps shooting. He does play hard. He does give them tenacity, but this is a league that really benefits guys that can shoot the basketball and he cannot. And then maybe the elephant in the room is so many people thought Jason Tatum would be a superstar in year two when you realized

He's only one year removed from being in college where he played one year. He averaged 14 points a game, and I think he's going to be a really good player. He's got a chance to be a star player. But there's just holes that you have to shore up over time that you have to get better at. The same thing with Jalen Brown. Like Jalen Brown shot the ball better his first couple years than most people could have thought. But he's not a great shooter. And then you have Al Horford, who's ridiculously valuable.

But do we get to the point to where Al Horford went from? from being overrated and overpaid to slightly underrated and undervalued to now you're starting to see like, look, he's good and he does a lot of things, but there is some, he's valued more because he's a professional, because in an NBA playoff game, he'll make a shot and he can guard multiple positions. But in the regular season, sometimes just a lack of oomph and skill and athleticism and youth does get exposed. It's possible that the Celtics just aren't as talented as we thought they would be.

possible. I still think they're still my favorite, but remember, there's a reason that the Raptors have won so many games, and then the Raptors add the winning quality of a Danning Green, and I think a better player than Demar Dorosen in a Kawhi Leonard. Okay, let's get to some of his questions. Doug Darlington, this is at Lombardo Keith, is his Twitter handle. Do you think it's a myth that they don't play defense in the NBA with a high level of skill and no hand-checking? It seems like you can play D but still give up points. The defense is actually very, very good in most parts in the NBA. It is completely a myth. And the reason it's a myth is sometimes it's really good defense and just better offense.

Those guys are unbelievably skilled. Like when I say that Andre Godala might be over the hill, I can remember, like, this is a 20-point-of-game guy who was a starter and an all-star for the Phoenix Suns. He's still one of the 450 best players on Earth, but at some point, Father Time catches up to you. He doesn't shoot the ball with nearly the confidence that he used to. He's not the same player, and now he doesn't move the same.

It's totally a myth that there's no defense in the NBA. Look, if you can't play in the NBA, if you can't guard your spot, period. Period. Period. Like, I had somebody, I actually had a GM. of an NFL team. Why can't Jimmer Ferdat play in the NBA? I said, because he can't guard a soul. And even if it isn't totally true,

that becomes the perception of you. If you can't guard, you don't play. Brian says, where do the Clippers end up at the end of the season? I don't think they end up in first place. But the Clippers, Jerry West, Orange Frank, Doc Rivers, think about it. No DeAndre Jordan, no Chris Paul,

no Blake Griffin, first place in their division. It's incredible. they believe they got a great shot of Kauai. They believe they're going to bring in stars. I don't know of Kauai. I don't know enough of, I've heard enough chatter that makes me believe they're going to get a couple of guys. But I don't know the reality.

Everybody said Kevin Love would always be, would be a Laker. That didn't happen. But they also said the LeBron ultimately wanted to be a Laker and that did happen. So who knows? Where do I think they end up? think they end up getting into the playoffs in the 6, 7, 8 seed variety. And I think that Shea Guild is Alexander is going to be a star point guard for them in the future. And I think they've done a very good job of evaluating the players they have.

What they do with Tobias Harris is going to be interesting. What they do with Avery Bradley is going to be interesting. But they play hard and they're deep. And I think maybe the best acquisition they made was Rex Kalmanian as their defensive a coordinator. He's been awesome. Remember he's in Toronto. Before that, he was in Oklahoma City. Paul Zibowski Jr. says, are the Pistons a threat in the East? I don't think they're a threat to win the East, but I think they're a threat to knock out one of those teams that we assume will be in the Eastern Conference Finals. And by assume, I mean, everybody thinks Sixers, Raptors, Celtics are

the three best teams, right? I think the Pistons are a threat to either of those teams. And it's one of the things that's been great is Blake Griffin hasn't pouted about being traded. He's made himself into a star, an absolute star. But do I think they win the playoffs? No, I think they get and lose. I guess they would lose in the semifinals. I believe that that would be their ceiling. But if they run up on one of those other teams early, they could knock them off.

I think this is, Raleigh says, your thoughts on Luca Donchich. He's already the Mavs best player in primary decision. decision maker when the game is on the line. Donchick is really skilled, bigger than I thought, thicker than I thought, slower than I thought, but I'm not surprised at his basketball IQ. The NBA obviously values skill, shooting, passing, maybe more than it ever has. He is going to be a defensive liability, and he's kind of everything I thought. Because he had played high level of European basketball, nothing faces him. But there are just times in which, you know, you get to the playoffs and he's going to be isolated on guys are just too, too explosive,

and they go by him. And there'll be, you know, people that you put on him where he can't get a step and he struggles. But he's a 10-year starter for them, you know. And if you put the right speed and athletic, the guy that I don't like is Dennis Smith, Jr. You know, I don't think he's a particularly hard worker. He's not a good shooter. The good thing there is he can play off the basketball because you don't want him on the ball because he's not really a creative passer.

and I would say long-term he's probably a bench player, but he's got to shoot the ball better and he's got to be better at all other facets of his game because this is a, it's a shooting in skill-based league. Let's see here. Mr. Gottlieb. Many in Big Blue Nation believe that Cal struggles lately in recruiting are due to tension with LeBron's people.

If you're with the cool people in basketball, have you earned anything like this? Well, I think LeBron not being close to them becomes kind of sort of problematic. I also think, you know, he's in Ohio before. It's not that far to get down to Kentucky. And I do wonder what happens. Now they have Anthony Davis, you know, under contract with Rich Paul.

Do they land Anthony Davis and does Cal help push that along? Does that become reasonable? Yeah. I also think that, look, the Duke thing has become cool. You know, I think that Louisville has done a great job. I think the whole recruiting thing is fascinating. But look, he got most of the guys that he thought he was going to get. It's different when you have, like, when Penny Hardaway coaches a kid in A.U.

Ball and in high school ball, like Penny Hardaway should get him. And that's what he meant. That's what he meant. I don't know enough about LeBron's people. And if they've turned on Cal, I just know that LeBron's people are now in L.A. and so proximity does kind of change things. Best NBA players since 2000s not to make an all-star game. This from Tomas.

And worst player to make an all-star game. Leading candidates, Mike Conley and Lamar Odom, Mameadow Cure and Brad Miller. Brad Miller made an all-star game? I had no idea. I like Brad Miller. He's a great dude, man. I hung out with him at USA Basketball Trials one year.

One of the best dudes I've ever met. Mmeadow Cour also incredible dude. L.O. and Mike Connolly should be an all-star. But the problem with him is, you know, like I would rather have, there's blasphemy, Mike Conley on my team than Russell Westbrook on my team. And I think Russell Westbrook has more talent, plays hard, tough, et cetera, et cetera. But I think you'll get more wins out of playing with Mike Connolly. Kind of a throwback, but he can also score than you will out of Russell Westbrook.

Best Southern California player you played against that didn't make it. big, but should have. Well, illusionie me, man, if you know anything about Southern California basketball. Shea Cotton played at a high level, but was supposed to be the first, you know, got to go straight from high school to the pros. Those are the two names that. And I know that the chief, that chief at Cherokee Parks made it to the NBA, but he should have been a better NBA player.

He should have been a more impactful NBA player. Chris Burgess, another guy who, now he would be a stretch five. I don't know if he could guard the way you need to as a stretch five. And, you know, Eric Chenoweth is a guy that, you know, now he wouldn't be as valued, but 7 v. Tall. And I don't think he played a regular season game in the NBA. So we've got a lot of guys. Who's your favorite to win the Missouri Valley Conference and make the tournament? Well, I've seen several Mo Valley teams.

I don't think Missouri State's there. I don't think Louis Chicago is as good as they've been. I'm going to go with Illinois State. They have Malik Yarborough, a transfer from St. Louis. Got pretty good guard play as well. I don't know if they have the overall shooting, but I would go with Illinois State as my favorite to win the Valley.

Sparty basketball. Why does Izzo call timeout at the timeline? Well, because he wants guys to bring it up and he has a half-court set that he wants to run. And it's interesting that he does this in the first half, and I think sometimes it hurts momentum. I know he's using it for the future, but this is something that Tom Isso is always done.

Look, there's Roy Williams, for example, he always traps either on the dribble or on the first pass when you come out of a timeout. First half and second half, first time out, that's what they do. He also, at the end of games, always throws into mid court and calls a timeout. That's just his style. So Izzo, he always has a guy bring it up into the front court as quickly as they can to get it right where he wants, and then he calls time out so they can drop a play right in front of him. And I'm sure that he would be somebody who would want that NBA rule where he could advance the basketball. I don't like it.

I think you have to earn that yardage, if you will. And I also like that there's a difference in college and pro. You don't have to have the same game. Kyle says, do you think Texas Tech finishes in the top two or three in the Big 12 again? I don't. I don't. But it wouldn't surprise me because I think Chris Beard is an amazing coach. I watched them play two games in Kansas City.

I mentioned all the teams I've seen to play. I walked in there down 13 to USC who probably has more talent and they end up kicking USC's ass. And the next night they play against Nebraska who probably has more talent and they beat Nebraska. I think that the Big 12 is, I would guess that Baylor would be the 10th best team. I don't think Oklahoma State finishes last. I think they're actually pretty good. They feel like a tournament team to me. Oklahoma I still have my concerns about.

And then TCU, it's really hard because they haven't played anybody yet. So I think they finish upper half, but I would say that the top two teams are Kansas and Kansas State. Kansas State should be really good. Bruce obviously, he puckers a little bit when they play against KU, and they usually lose a game that they shouldn't. So I think the top two, and I frankly think Texas should be really good. I like the way the Texas plays now. They spread you out.

Obviously, Hayes, the new freshman big kid, is an amazing story from being lightly recruited, now being a stud there. I like Texas. I would say that Texas Tech wins a bunch of games. You know, they win 10, 11 games in the Big 12. I think the Big 12 is going to be KU at the top and then maybe K State right behind them and then probably just a clump of,

what would be be, four or five teams kind of worked in together. Craig says, why wouldn't it pay for the 60 to try sending Foltz to the G League and let him work out as Kinks in the smaller platform? If you listen back to our previous all-ball podcast, we talked a lot about Markell Foltz. I don't think he can be a G-League player with the Sixers. You can't draft a guy number one overall and then have him on your G-League team the second year.

There's something where everybody in that organization or with Fultz, they're all blaming each other instead of, hey, let's just fix Markell. So I think you probably, somebody trades for him for nothing. you shut him down, you work on him mentally emotionally, and if you play him in the G League, fine, but you can't do it with a team that drafted number one overall. And if you play them on an NBA floor, you got to play where if he turns down a shot, you take him out of the game.

How do you think Nevada will fare against USC and Arizona State? I'm fascinated. This Nevada team, you know, all of their starters are 22 years older or older. The twins are 23 and a half years old. They're an old, mature team. And I think Jordan Cornett's their best college basketball player. He's 64, 65. His dad's Simeon Rice.

He competes. They play him as an undersized five at times. He's phenomenal. And then you have Cody and Caleb. Cody feels like he's improved more than Caleb, but Caleb is a better offensive player, a better shooter. Cody does all the other little things. How do they fare against USC?

I just think they're tougher, older, more mature than USC. Remember, USA. Loss their four-year starter at point guard. And they lost Chimesey Metu, who defended the rim. And, you know, boat ride doesn't look right to me just yet. And while USC has a lot of talent, like, I think Nevada's age and grit and experience, I think they beat S.C. Arizona State's interesting because I think Arizona State's going to climb into them. They might be a little bit too fast and athletic.

But they're also going to be far younger than Nevada. Wouldn't stun me to see Nevada beat both those teams. All right, quickly, let me give you a couple things on teams that I've seen this year in college basketball. Let's start kind of at the top. Let's start kind of at the top. A team that I've seen that I think is super intriguing is the University of Texas. So when I saw Texas, it was against North Carolina and against Michigan State. Against Michigan State, they had a huge halftime lead.

And they're playing well. They're up 19 points. Eight minutes in the game, and of course, Michigan State came storming back. And my thought on Texas is this. They have figured out that the Kerwin Roach was so good against North Carolina. And they have, you know, they have some shooters. They have the freshman Jackson Hayes who's given them big minutes. I think they figured out that Dylan Ositkowski, while a super effective offensive player,

obviously doesn't make them long defensively. But I love that they've changed some of the stuff they've run. They spread you way, way out. And if they're making shots, and again, against Michigan State, they're only nine of 34. Their performance against Michigan State was part of it is the, if you've seen Sparty in person, those guys are incredibly built.

You know, they just feels like a group of men as opposed to Texas, which feels like several boys, you know. And they're struggling to find a role. role for Jericho Sims. I thought starting Matt Coleman was smart, but, you know, Coleman, there's a reason that he's volleyed in and out of that starting lineup, just because he's not really a one, not really a two, doesn't shoot it as well as you'd like. I still think, though, the Texas, this is a, this is potentially a second weekend team.

They just have, they have the type of length and athleticism that few teams have. They also have enough depth of older players, especially Ossetowski, Kerwin Roach. We mentioned Coleman playing last year. Do I think they're perfect? No. No, but if the word is get old, if we talk about get old, stay old, that's a team that gets old, stays old. The same is true for Nevada. I got a chance to really study Nevada.

And what I like is they're old, you know, and they know for the most part, they know who they know who they are. You know, they, they know that, you know, Caleb Martin kind of is their one-shot creator, a guy who can pass and who can score and who you pay a lot of attention to. And, you know, they bring Jazz Johnson in whether he starts, it comes off the bench. He's kind of lightning in a bottle. He's, he's their Vinny Johnson and their microwave oven. He's older as well, you know. Then he got Jordan Caroline who's like, he's like 22. And they play Jordan Caroline.

He's best when he's at the five. But when he's at the four, now a sudden they bring in, they start. Tray Porter who's got ridiculous length. Also, he's in his fifth year in college, George Mason to O'DU to Nevada. And, you know, so defensively, they're just so much thicker, so much older, so much smarter. And they do have, you know, some newfound depth with a Corey Henson who can come in and shoot, a Jordan Brown, the freshman who can defend the rim. I like their team a lot. Like I put them as my fourth Final Four team on our Fox Sports Twitter handle. I can't figure out who that fourth team is.

Gonzaga, Kansas, Duke, to me are the three elite teams in the country. And I think there's a bunch of Michigan now would probably be in chase. But the thing now is the thing about Caleb Martin is he does shoot the basketball like Lanzo Ball, where he can kind of only shoot it out of his left hand because the ball comes to the middle of his forehead and he kicks out his foot. and he's not a great shooter. He's a volume guy. Jazz Johnson's there one. What I would say is kind of electric three-point shooter.

I think Cody Martin's probably improved more than his brother. There's some limitations there. He's not really a three-point shooter, and he's not as much of a creator. He's more of a point power forward, but he might be their best, you know, ball handler. And I'm interested to see what, when they play like in Arizona State

with small athletic guards to get after him, how they play, seeing his last year, San Diego State beat him that way. And then Trayshon Thurman, who can step out a little bit, he can score this back to the basket. He's one of the, he might be their worst athlete, but he's a really good basketball player. So you throw out a starting lineup where everybody's at least 22 years old,

and then the only youngster you bring in is Jordan Brown. That's a really hard team to compete against. And while my initial thought was, and watched him, the first night I watched him, Caleb Martin was really selfish. The second night, he was the MVP of the third place. game and or no it's the championship game of the other side of the Las Vegas Invitational. And so when I watched him, I talked to him afterwards. He was like, look, I took bad shots

and I just had to take better shots and play better basketball. So it's not that he doesn't have a little bit of a selfish gene in him. It's that at least he has the knowledge of, hey, I'm playing selfishly. I got to change things. So I like Nevada. I don't, I look around that league and, you know, UNLV gets beat by Valpo. I think San Diego States good, but not great. grade. New Mexico's not back yet. It's not that they're going to run through that league and be undefeated. It's a hard league to play in because of all the altitude you go and play in, even a place like Nevada and the road trips. And I think Colorado State's going to be pretty good. Nico Medvedev is a really good coach. I think a nice fit for what CSU wants to do in the future.

So it's not like they're going to go undefeated, but they're going to win their league. They're going to get a good seed. And they do have experience. And I know that sometimes we overreact to a couple of wins in the tournament. You know, they were, they were down big in both of those games. And so we become kind of result-oriented instead of process-oriented. I'm just telling you based upon the process, like that's a really good older team that at least now, at least now Eric Musselman has buying into guys, you know, with the exception to Martin Twins and Jordan Caroline, nobody's playing over, you know, 25 minutes a game. That's hard to do. It's hard to get a Trey Porter who, hey, hey, man, this is your last year of college basketball. You leave ODU and you're only playing 18 minutes

the game. I think those increase, but I think his management of their minutes, while it'll help them if and when they get a shot at the NBA, it is, I mean, guys just bitching complain about playing time. That's what they do. The North Carolina thing is interesting. You know, at the time of this recording, we just saw them get blown out by Michigan. And part of why they got blown out by Michigan, I think, is their reluctance to kind of evolve defensively and matchup

wise. If you wonder why Nassir Little only plays 19 and a half minutes a game, watch him play an entire game and you'll kind of understand why. He's an electric offensive player, but he's also a guy that thinks he's supposed to shoot every time he gets it. And while he's the most talented in terms of NBA

upside, you know, you have Luke May and Cameron Johnson who you know, they've seen everything. They've done everything and they play the two positions that he wants to play. I do think there's a role there to where you can play the three of them together. They all shoot it so well and they have at times. And then, you know, the other issue they run into is Kobe White, who scoring point guard. So who is going to facilitate on that team? You know, you can have a scoring point guard and you can have three and four men who all can shoot and score. You can spread it out and

and really be incredible offensively. But one, who's the facilitator on that team? They don't really naturally have one. And that's kind of the opposite of how Roy Williams has always rolled. He usually, usually has a facilitating point guard or facilitating combo guard to go with this point guard. And two, who of those guys is going to lock down defensively, right? Like Cameron, you know, kind of a finesse player.

Luke May, just not athletic enough to keep up with great athletes defensively. Nassir little a freshman offensive-minded guy. Kobe White's quick, but if he's not making his shots, he doesn't buy in defensively. Like that's a really talented team, but not one that locks up defensively and they don't facilitate. And then there's also kind of a reluctance to play as many guards, perimeter players and spread you out. They still want to play the Sterling Manley's of the world. And look, playing without, I think Seventh Woods could be a guy who facilitated. more. He could be that off the ball guy. But now after missing a couple games to the concussion,

now all of a sudden you get a little bit boat raced in terms of other guys getting minutes and you've got to play catch up. So I think Carolina, look, they're an NCAA tournament team. They actually have a lot of skill. And I was concerned about the point car position. It's not as much turnovers as running the team. I think they'll be okay. But in terms of competing for a national championship there's some fundamental flaws in how they're constructed in that you got a lot of offensive-minded guys and not a lot of facilitators and and to this point they haven't dug in defensively in fairness to roy williams teams most of even as championship teams that are loaded up with veteran talent they don't lock in and play really good defense till february they just don't like

he doesn't come out you know and and brow beat him early he lets him get up and down and play take some losses they wouldn't normally take and usually like mid-February suddenly they start locking guys up. So that's one thought. I mean, they just have a lot more offensive firepower than other teams. Even Virginia that beat Maryland last night. Like, they have some firepower with Kyle Guy and Hunter and Ty Jerome, but not the type of firepower that North Carolina is going to have in the second half of the season.

The question becomes, will they stop anybody? I got a chance to see UMass in Matt McCall's second year. And I like the overall growth of what he's doing there and what he's doing there and what he's trying to do. This is a UMass team that they've won three out of their last four. They did lose Nevada. And they didn't play poorly.

They just didn't match up. Well, Nevada, Nevada kind of hit everything they threw. But Luan Pipkins is, I don't know what he is. 5-8, 5-9, just lightning in a bottle, electric score. They have his kid, Carl Pierre, who can really, really shoot. Sophomor. He was the nation's leading freshman three-point shooter. And they also have Curtis Cobb, who's a transfer

from Fairfield. He's the one with a creepy eyes tattoo. Go ahead, Google him. He has these creepy, tattoos. He's wearing a t-shirt now, but when he's at Fairfield, he used to let him hang, and it was weird. But plenty of firepower. A question with them is going to be defense, and they got to develop around, you know, they're two big guys. One is Cy Chapman, who is a freshman from Minnesota, and he played high school basketball with Trey Jones, the point guard at Duke. He's only 18 years old, very young. I don't know if you can win with that young of a of a center right now, but you never know in the A10. They're just, they're a very offensive-minded team that's kind of searching, searching for a rim protector because they start Rishon Holloway, who's 611 listed at 310. I think he's

closer to 350, 360 and he can only play limited minutes. But look, UMass is an interesting team with, with all that firepower they have offensively. And I do think McCall has made the proper inroads and recruiting that they're never going to be what john caliperi had them but considering the a 10 is searching for a leader searching for a team that could make a run they play at such a furious pace and have so many different shot makers it wouldn't stun me if they're a team that you know they finish somewhere in the second to fourth in league but then they win the conference tournament because they have we have they have so much firepower let me take a minute to tell you about quip There's a buzzy gift on everyone's list this year.

It's called quip. And if you get it, they'll use it twice a day every day. If you get it, they'll say, did you see this on Oprah's O list? It's perfect for everyone with a mouth, even one as big as mine. Quip is quick. Quip is easy. Quip is sensitive for sensitive gums like mine. It even reminds you when to switch sides of your mouth and it's easy to pack and travel

because you can stick it to a mirror and slide it off with. no incident. That's why I love quip and why they have over 5,000 verified five-star reviews. Quip looks like a big ticket item, but it's got a stocking stuff for price, starting at just $25. So go to get quip, get quip.com slash dug. Right now, get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush. That's your first refill pack for free at get quip.com slash Doug. Get quip.com slash Doug. Let's welcome my man, Casey Jacobson for first round draft pick, high school, college, All-American, All-A-American, all-around good guy. You'll watch on Fox this weekend when we have an incredible slate of college basketball games. Casey, could Duke have beaten any of your NBA teams?

Absolutely not. We would have crush him. And I played on some really crappy teams, especially one, New Orleans. We had Speedy Claxton and Lee Nailon and Dan Dick out. We weren't very good, but we would have hammered Duke. Yeah, I mean, I don't, here's what I don't, like, look, I've worked with Jay and Jay Williams. I was most surprised that Jay would say something because

his team that won a national championship had five pros, right? Had him, Boozer, Duhon, Dunleavy, whom I forget, him, Dunlevy, one more big guy. Shane Badiere? Yeah, and Shane Badiere, right? And he was the best player,

and you look at how even he struggled when he went to the NBA playing on a bad Chicago Bulls team, and you understand the difference in level of competition, the difference in men versus boys. And when you're in college basketball, you might have three to five future NBA players as opposed to in the NBA, you've got 15 NBA players. I just, I don't understand why a writer might say that.

I don't understand why a former player would say that. You're right. And Jay is a good friend of ours. I mean, Jay is a peer of mine. We were in the McDonald's All-American game together. We competed. I competed against that Duke team. You mentioned that won the national title.

We beat them in December of that year. You're right. It's different when it comes from a journalism. Somebody who's never played at any level before, but for somebody like that to say it, it's a dumb argument to me. The biggest thing, Doug, is the bigs in the NBA to me.

That's where, I mean, of course, I was a 22-point-per-game score in college. I led the Pac-12, Pac-10 at the time in scoring, and then I go to the NBA and average five. and I'm, you know, seventh or eighth man off the bench. And one of the hardest things to do was to create my own shot. But also, if I ever got to drive into the lane to finish against elite, and we're talking the elite of human beings as a species at the NBA level,

to me is the biggest difference. So will Zion Williamson be fantastic in the NBA? Yes, he will. Well, R.J. Barrett be fantastic in the NBA? I believe so. But Cam Reddish might be just an average guy. And then who else is, like, Trey Jones is a lot. really good player. I don't know if he's going to be a good NBA player. He'll even be a starter

ever in his career. And you're talking about 12 NBA team with 12 players versus a Duke team that has two bona fide NBA players and maybe a couple of other fringe players. They'd get smashed. They would get smashed. Okay, so RJ Barrett or Zion Williamson, you have the number one draft pick. Who do you take and why? This is a great debate. I love it. So RJ Barrett is the more complete player. To me, he is. is the safer pick. But let me say this. I would take Zion Williamson with the number one pick,

if you can guarantee me this, Doug, and it's a big guarantee. His weight right now is not an issue. He is an 18 or 19-year-old young man, and it might not be an issue for three or four more years. But you can't tell me that if he doesn't take care of himself, that when he's 26 or 27 and he goes up for a dunk and he's got wear and tear over years of playing basketball, that he isn't tweak a knee or tweak an ankle or break something,

and then he is not the same. His game is so much reliant on his power, explosiveness, and athleticism, and it is marvelous to watch. But I just wonder if his body weight at 275 or 280 pounds, whatever he is, can hold up over the length of an NBA season. Like LeBron, what he's done with his body is pretty remarkable. He's as disciplined as anybody we've ever seen. If you can tell me that Zion will drop some weight and be disciplined and keeping a healthy weight,

then I'd think about taking Zion. But I don't think that's the case. I would take RJ Barrett. Here's my thing with Barrett, and a little bit of it is confirmation bias, what I thought and what NBA scouts have told me, which is like, I understand that Mike Chishefsky's coming out super defensive about RJ and, you know, playing hero ball. but he was playing hero ball, right? It was selfish.

And it was, and look, he's won at every level up until now, but it wasn't working against Gonzaga. And I think my fear about R.J. Barrett is this. He's always been the best player. He's always been the alpha. He's always been the guy who's going to have the ball in his hands at the end of a game. And one, I do think there are moments with this Duke team, which he's got to get off the basketball.

Two, I don't think he shoots it well enough, and I'm not sure he will shoot him well enough to be that guy, or he's explosive and athlete enough to be that guy at the next level. And so if he's not the go-to guy, he's, there's a, he'll really struggle. He'll struggle emotionally. He'll struggle in terms of fitting in to a team. Whereas Zion is, I think doing a great job of not being the go-to guy. I agree with you that he's he's a unicorn. No one's ever seen anything like this before. And we're all trying to say, well, he's Barclay.

If Barclay was it, like he's not. Like, Barclay's 6.4 and a half. This kid's 6.5 and a half. But Barclay was never 285 pounds. And he's like a cut to 285, like just so thick. I'm with you, Mike. Mike, I would hire people to surround him, have him have a chef, have him have a trainer. This is a, you know, you and I talked about this with other guys.

I would, you know, with Joel Embed. would do the exact same thing, invest in him now as soon as you draft him, so that it becomes a complete lifestyle change, which he's already started to make. But I'm not sure that Barrett has, if he can continue to develop as an athlete, as a shooter, maybe, but I would actually take Zion just because he might actually be the safer play, injuries and body type, notwithstanding, because he's shown the ability to not be the alpha with the ball in his hands, whereas RJ Barrett does not appear to have that in his makeup.

Well, we're splitting here. I think we agree a bit. I disagree with you in the fact that R.J. Bear was playing hero ball at the end of the Gonzaga game, but I was okay with it. He is a better creator if he's willing to make the right play than Zion Williamson is from a one-on-one perspective because he can shoot. Now, he has struggled. He got through a really nice start shooting the ball, but R.J. Bear is a better three-point shooter than lately.

then his numbers indicate. No question. And all these questions will get, but here's the thing. While I agree with you, he can facilitate. He wasn't, right? It was like, like, look. And Zion, and look, let's just also remember, Zion's being guarded by college power forwards, college centers,

which is, which is, this is what happened with Derek Williams at Arizona, right? Everybody freaked out. Derek Williams is shooting numbers at Arizona. And Sean Miller was, we're texting. I was like, dude, you have him playing the matching up with five. Of course he's going to have him. He's like, I know people think he's an NBA two or an NBA three, and there's no, he's not playing against two or three men.

So I do agree, understand that. And I agree with you that in theory, in theory, R.J. Barrett should be a much better facilitator and creator, but he wasn't facilitating or creating for anybody else in that instance. Yeah. Let's also remember that R.J. Barrett reclassified. He should be playing as a senior in high school right now. So he's still young and learning, and that was his first major stage that he played on.

I know he's played on USA basketball teams and been successful. He's been in McDonald's All-American, but that was the first major game. It was number one versus number three on ESPN, Maui Intertational for the premier non-conference tournament in the country. He wanted to make an aim for himself. Let's not forget as well that Zion Williamson is so popular. He's a rock star. And you don't think that that has an establishment. on RJ Barrett.

Sure. He's probably thinking to himself, I'm a better player. This is what RJ Barrett probably thinks. I'm a better overall player. I'm the projected number one pick. So at the end of the game, I'm going to show that I'm the guy. I'm the one-on-one go-to player for Duke, not Zion. I absolutely think that played a part.

I'm not blaming RJ. Look, I'd rather have a guy. I'd rather have to rain a guy back. Like, hey, man, you've got to stop having tunnel vision and see the rest of the floor rather than have a guy who's too scared who can take on that moment. It's a very, very, very fair point. Absolutely fair point. Let's get to some of the games.

I've seen Creighton a bunch called three of their games. And they win in the Caymans. Now, they have Gonzaga coming in. And if you've seen Creighton, you know, one, they're incredible at home, even though they lost early in the year to Ohio State. They play small ball. Tysha and Alexander is their best player. I like this as Marcus Zegorowski, who's the freshman point guard, he comes in off the bench. I'm not sure that playing small ball against Gonzaga ends up working out well for them.

How do you think they match up against the Zags on Fox? Yeah, not well. That doesn't mean to say that Creight doesn't have a chance. They always have a chance at home. This is an offensive-oriented team. It has been since their head coach, Blake and Derm, took over there. they lost to Ohio State since then their last four games. They're on fire, Doug, shooting almost 60% as an offense collectively.

So they're coming in confident. My issue with Craden has always been, and we'll be certainly in this game, can they defend the rim? Can they defend inside the three-point art? Because Gonzaga can do, they can beat you any which way you want. They can shoot from three with Josh Perkins and Zach Norvill, and even their bakes can step out and shoot it occasionally. But they're a very good team at driving, drawing,

kicking, and they go down to the post. They isolate Rui Hachamora. Their Japanese forward at the high elbow area, really effective in the midposts, are in the middle of the floor. So can Creighton, you know, defend the rim? Martine Crumple is coming off of his third ACL injury, and he looked really good in their last game against Sterly Dickinson. He looked really good.

But he's not nearly as explosive as he once was, and he's going against Brandon Clark and Rui Hachamora now. So if they can defend the rim, then they'll be able to run. Doug, you know how difficult it is for being a team that likes to push the tempo? If you're taking the ball out of the net, you're done. Creighton is not the same offense in the half court. They're just not. Tyshaun Alexander is stepping up as a go-to guy, but they don't have guys that, you know,

just give them the ball and get out the way like Marcus Foster last year. They don't have that. All right, let's go to Marquette, Kansas State. another big game for the Big East at home. Big East struggled so mightily in the matchup, the Gavitt games against the Big Ten. How do you think they match up against K State? So K State is a bona fide top 15 team in the country.

They've returned all five starters from a team that made it to lead eight last year. So obviously big expectations for K State. And they're known as a team that will just draw a line in the sand defensively and good after you. Barry Brown will just take the ball if you're not, you know, guarding it with two hands. So Marquette, to me, and we're going to talk about this tomorrow on Fox, they've been telling their head coach Steve Orchowski has been like, we need to have a better defensive identity.

Now, they're not going to be a top 25 defensive team, probably ever, as long as he's coaching because he's more of an offensive guy. But they have to embrace the pace of this game, Doug, meaning they can't go in with the mentality that we're Marquette, we're at home, like to score, we're just going to outrun you. That is not going to happen against K-State. So they need to go on with the mindset. All right, it might

be a little bit slower, and that's okay. How are we going to manufacture shots for Marcus Howard, Marcus Howard and Sam Hauser? How are we going to do that in the half court? If, to me, the magic number is going to be 40%. Whatever team can shoot over 40%

is going to win this game. That, to me, is more likely Marquette. And they're at home. So I think you're looking at an upset win right here. I think Marquette's going to get this one. I don't. I don't like the matchup at all. I've seen Kay State a ton.

You know, K State does, you know, their two best players are Dean Wade and Barry Brown. Barry can give you a 30 at the college level. And Dean Wade being kind of a face-up big. I actually think they match up really well with Marquette in that they'll play, you know, four-out, one in. And even their five men can be really, really athletic. They can play both their guards, Jara, and Stokes together. to match up with Marcus Howard and downshift and go small. It's not what they traditionally like to do,

but it's something they will do. I also think kind of underrated is the fact that one reason I wish I was doing this game. Bruce Weber was my dad's manager at UW Milwaukee, and this game's going to be played like two doors down from where they used to, well, they actually used to play on campus. But, you know, like five miles away. Anyway, I just, that's a fast. I like Kay State.

And I like Kate. And I like the. this Marquette team, I just think that Marquette, it's a lot like Creighton. They're going to beat you on mismatches, and it's not a team that you can create the mismatches against with this Kansas State team that plays four out or even no-out, nobody in. Has Villanova fixed themselves with their tournament win? A nice bounce back, and I can't say that I'm that surprised. I didn't pick them to win that game of the finals game against Florida State.

I thought Florida State's athleticism and defensive prowess would disrupt. their backcourt, Villanauva's back court, which has been pedestrian with Phil Booth and Colin Gillespie. So, you know, I was, Colin Gillespie was amazing. Probably the best offensive performance I've seen from him. I don't think he missed his first seven shots in that game. But, Doug, similar to, like, the Los Angeles Lakers, which, you know, started out slowly and then won, like, five games in a row. And people were like, are, did they fix what?

No, the Lakers have a big problem, and they don't have any three-point shooters around the Bron. That's a problem that doesn't get fixed. Villanova doesn't have NBA players on their team. They lost four of them, and they're not a team that reloaded like Kentucky and Duke and sometimes even Kansas. They have a problem that's not fixable at the elite level. Will they be a top 25 borderline team for most of the season? Probably they are not going to be an elite team because they don't have elite talent. I mean, they've got a couple of dudes, and Eric Pascal has not taken the step that I thought he would this year.

And so because of that, they are going to be good. They will out-execute you. They will be tough. But they have a problem that can't be fixed over the course of a five-month season. All right. Let's get to a couple other quickies here. Stanford, your alma mater, taking on Kansas. Jared Hass going back to a place he played his last two years in college.

Why isn't Stanford better? I mean, they've been, they're so good. This is the old question. They're so good in every other sport. Obviously, they struggled this year in football. But in basketball, why isn't Stanford? You know, you lose Reed, Travis, that hurts you. Why aren't they better?

Man, I've been wrestling with this question for a while. Stanford has made one tournament in the past decade. What? Is that true? One tournament in the past decade. That is true. Look it up. It was the one year that Johnny Dawkins, they made it to the tournament.

And they upset Kansas when they had Andrew Wiggins. So they made a Sweet 16 the one time that they did make the tournament. But that's it. They haven't made the tournament since Brooke Lopez and Robin Lopez before that. It was Brooke Lopez. But your question, why aren't they better? So, you know, Stanford has a small recruiting pool. Like it is as difficult to get into Stanford as any other basketball power that, you know,

that offers scholarships, you know, notwithstanding the Ivy League schools. Because of that, you have a small pool. Well, the elite players, like a Reed Travis, who was a McDonald's All-American, he's been the only McDonald's All-American, Doug, in the last eight years, I want to say. So let's just start right there. So the elite players are not going to Stanford lately. When I played from 1999 to 2002, we had four McDonald's All-Americans on our team. and let's make a good twist.

We can talk to X's and O's. We can talk about who's the coach, who's not the coach. If you don't have NBA players and you're in a Power 5 or Power 6 conference, you are not going to be going to the tournament every year. You're not going to be ranked in the top 20 in the country, and that's that. So the one McDonald's All-American elite high school player that they have recruited, Reed Travis, transferred for his senior year to go to Kentucky, which is a bad state of affairs for Stanford.

I mean, he's, you know, an all-Pact-12 player, the leading score, they run their entire offense to him. And he is the reason he transferred, Doug, is because he never played in the NCAA tournament. And he didn't feel like Stanford had enough NBA scouts. He wasn't showcased enough. And so it's hard to write the ship right now if you're not getting any of those elite players. That's what it takes, one or two of them, preferably two, to turn the tides of a program if you're playing in a conference like the Pac-12.

Well, I also think, you know, they've had guys transfer out, nobody transfer in, you know. And so when people, everyone else is playing older players and, you know, they haven't, they should have third and fourth year guys that are able to compete. They should be able to compete without McDonald's All-Americans, quite frankly, because they haven't lost guys to the NBA draft the way that every UCLA has, Arizona has, USC has. Oregon has, but they haven't been able to do it. I mean, it's just really, really remarkable. People forget, I had this conversation with the anti-cats, where people forget, like, when you were there, the farm, that was one of the best atmospheres in the West Coast, right?

It was a tough place played. Now, the students don't care, and they don't have good enough teams, you don't have good enough players, but also, if you don't have a distinct home court advantage where you could roll out and win 95% of your games, that changes your season dramatically. There's no question about that.

I watched Maple's Pavilion is the arena that's on Stanford's campus, and it only holds 8,000, but there are people who waited outside. Now, there's some factors in it. First and foremost, we were a really good team in, you know, top five talent in the country. But, too, it's a different landscape in college basketball now where every game's on TV, Doug. Plus, you factor in the fact that at Stanford, the students have other stuff going on. They don't, they are busy trying to advance their own academic careers and achieve their goals. They don't care about football.

Even when Jim Harbaugh, now David Shaw is coaching at Stanford, and they're a top 10 program. You can argue they're the best Western program of the past decade, better than USC. And their stadium holds $40,000, and they can barely, if at all, get $30,000 in there. There's just other things going on at Stanford. Sports is not a high priority to the university as far as, like, the major college. sports and going above and beyond stuff like that. So because of that, you're right.

Not having that home court advantage certainly hurts. And then we've already talked about the lack of elite talent. I disagree, Doug. I think anytime you can think of a Stanford team that was any good, they had multiple NBA players. Yeah. No, that's fair. That's fair.

I also think, though, that times have, you know, sometimes have changed. But, yeah, look, it used to be, Stanford used to be able to do in basketball what they're able to do in football. now, which is like, hey, if you want academics and athletics, you come here and all of your guys were like that. For whatever reason, both the last two, both the last two regimes have not been able to capitalize on that. They just haven't.

I didn't think they had good enough guards when Tommy was there. I mean, me not Tommy. When Johnny Dawkins was there, I didn't think that, I never felt like, like after Chris Hernandez graduated. They haven't had, you guys, you guys always had pro-biggs, right? And obviously, that's hard to get now. There aren't many big, big boys in college basketball. But I also think you guys always had really, really good guards from Brevin to Mike to Hernandez. And after he graduated, there's never been kind of that dynamic just below NBA caliber point guard that stays four years to go along with the NBA caliber bigs. You're right. The one team that they did have that were really underachieve was Jason Randall, who was a really good college guard. They had Dwight Powell and Josh Hustis, who all three of those guys did play or are still playing in the NBA.

But this Stanford team right now, Doug, is actually really strong in the backcourt. I actually, their biggest asset is KZi Akpala, a really long wing. He can't shoot from three, but he does everything else really well. And Dejohn Davis is a guy who, you know, out of the Seattle area, he's their starting point guard. wild, but he's a guy that is like that fringe player you're talking about. He's not good enough to be a lottery pick or even second round draft pick. He'll probably stay

at least three years, four years, probably. But they don't have any elite bigs, and especially with Reed Travis transferring out. There's a gigantic hole in Stanford's team. They can't manufacture buckets at the rim, and so they can't compete within, like they get

blown out by North Carolina. They're going to go to Kansas soon. It's probably not going to be close. Just because who's going to guard Udoca, nobody. No, no, I'm in. And usually they used to have a bunch of big white dudes that could line up from Adam Keefe to Mark Madsen to the twins

to him ever that could guard Udoca. Okay, last thing, Casey Jacobson joining us. And I do, I want to have you back on and I want to talk about your family, your basketball family and everything. Okay, you promise me you'll come back on, we can do that, like a long-form deal? All right, good. Okay, so

Gonzaga, Duke, Kansas, give me the fourth most likely team to get to the final four as of today? Besides those teams? Yes, yes. So I still like Virginia. I liked Virginia last year, and then DeAndre Hunter got hurt. And I watched Virginia this year, and I think Hunter is so much more valuable than we even thought last year. And people were like, oh, one player would make a difference for them, you know, not losing against number six.

16 seats. If you watch Virginia this year, DeAndre Hunter is a legit pro prospect, a four man that can play the three as well. He can step out and shoot. You can finish above the rim. He's a fantastic defensive player, of course. So I like Virginia. I also like the story of them being the only number one team to lose in the first round and rebound the next year and get to their head coach Tony Bennett's first ever final four. I just think that would be a perfect storybook. Even if they don't win the national title, I don't even care. Just them getting there, I think, would be an incredible story to follow during March.

You know, I like Tennessee a lot. I love their toughness, and I love their combination of three and four men with Admiral Schofield and Grant Williams. And so they've been really, really impressive in the games that I've seen them. Nevada is a team that really intrigues me, but I doubt they'll be good enough defensively in the tournament, despite the fact that they've addressed some of their big issues with Trey Porter. Now, look, Trey Porter, you'll see him tomorrow against SC. Freak athlete, now he's diabetic, so I think that's one reason they limit his playing time.

I only play it's like 18 minutes a game, but fifth-year grad transfer senior. He changes things to defense. I just think they're so old and mature. And now you add in, you got Jazz Johnson as a shooter. I, Nevada would, I recently put Nevada as my pick. I'm with you. We're all kind of circling around the same teams. Nevada's pretty impressive.

And they, Jordan Caroline's just a monster in there. You know, like a 6-4, 65, 4-5 man that at the college level, he's a grown man. He's going to be turned 23. I just think they have so much more age and experience. And now you have a little bit of the length of the back end. Nevada would, honestly, as of today, would be my pick. I'm not sure they have the, the perimeter defense because they're so big. but I'm also not sure it matters because they can also score on you.

I'm not going to pick against them. I'll tell you that. They have to prove to me against the elite level talent. That's my only thing. Defensively, they have to prove that. They don't have to prove anything on the offensive event. They're as dangerous as anybody. They can score against anyone.

Their lengths will be a problem. But we're talking Nevada as a Final 14. That means they're going to have to beat a Kansas. They're going to have to beat a Duke. And can they defend those teams. Nevada is a team that's going to be heavily favored in every single game they play this year.

And no other top 10, top 15 team can possibly say that. Their schedule isn't weak, but it's not good, Doug. Well, I know. We'll see. They got SC, then they got Arizona State. Let's see. Hey, Casey, great stuff. Can't wait to see you tomorrow on Fox.

And I appreciate you join us in the All Ball podcast. Anytime, Doug. Do the best. You a man. All right. Look, I've seen so many teams in person. and I'll continue to give you insight on different teams. You know, I haven't gotten to Southern Illinois.

I don't think I've gotten to Illinois State. I think Illinois State might win the Valley. Man, this Malik Yarbrough kid. His dad played there, started St. Louis transferred over. I like their roster. My question was about their guards. The guards are pretty good. Like, I'll give you some more.

I'll give you some valley thoughts upcoming next week. But Big Ten's kicking off. We got great hoops this weekend on Fox and on the other networks. Feel free to watch. Continue to tweet out your questions. One last thing. since we're doing a podcast, Brian Winhorse on his podcast said that scouts had told him that LeBron ignores Luke Walton's play calls when he's playing the point. I have been told unequivocally that that is fiction.

And before I sit there and tell you that that doesn't mean that Wendy doesn't do a great job or that scouts aren't telling him that. but scouts assuming that LeBron and Luke Walton, scouts from other teams, aren't on the same page. Either one, they're trying to plant a story to create an aura of dysfunction in the Lakers, which I've been told doesn't exist. Or two,

they just don't understand how those two operate. First of all, Luke doesn't call a ton of sets. They just don't. They don't overcoach him. And LeBron does try and exploit mismatches, and he knows what he wants, and you're not going to stop a guy who's a 15-year, superstar once in a generation player and say,

no, no, no, no, dude, come out and let's run a little UCLA double, you know. But in terms of ignoring coaching, doing your own thing, not trying to run the plays that are called. I think this is part of the deal, which the Lakers, everyone knows the Lakers are going to be players in free agency this upcoming off season. And I think the Clippers will as well. I think the Knicks got a chance to get in there. And players at their current places, it's hard to leave. hardly. But I know multiple guys in that front office and on that coaching staff. And they're all like,

that just didn't happen. It just hasn't happened. And that's the thing. What they thought they were going to get, they have basically gotten. I know that people are pushing back and the Lakers not having enough shooting. They know that. They're not idiots. But they feel like they have super competitive guys, but also guys that can function well within the locker room. Even the goofy dudes at the end of the bench, the born readies of the world. Those are good dudes. They come in. They do their work. They put an extra work.

They go home. They go home. That's what they do. Tyson, Chandler has added a great presence defensively. They're way better defensively with him. It's allowed them to sit, Javille, more, but also he's a professional. He says all the right things, shows all the right leadership to the guys on the bench.

And I think I would guess. My guess is a scout and most scouts are, they're trying to see the negative. There's the confirmation bias, right? There's the thought, and I've had that in my head. That LeBron's hard to coach, man, he's got to be hard to tell to call plays. And you see something you think might be that. So you say it to somebody like Brian Winhorst, who then talks about it in his podcast, and he creates this.

And everyone in our business is talking about it. Well, you know, here's LeBron. He's going to have it out for Luke. My sources are good in this one. Not Luke himself, but guys around him. LeBron's been a really good teammate, really trying. And he knows at the end of games, like the pacer game. Got to take over, got to get the ball.

He becomes their point guard, especially without Rondo. But that report, whatever scouts gave Windhorse, whatever scouts gave Windhorse, that information. They're either assuming something or trying to plant something that doesn't actually exist. I hope you enjoy the All Ball podcast. Keep your questions and comments coming to at Gottlieb Show. Stick with us all season long on Twitter. at Gottlieb show or listen to the Doug Gottlieb show on Fox Sports Radio every day, Monday through

Friday, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific on Sirius Channel 217, XM Channel 203. You can also listen on the IHeartRadio app or just go to Fox SportsRadio.com and you can check out what affiliate is in your area. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves,

their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women

in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything.

I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your, podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.