The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Gottlieb: Zion Williamson and Duke's Fab 5 debut; Kansas/Kentucky/Michigan State first impressions; LaMelo Ball's HS return and NBA future

Episode Date: November 8, 2018

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as a TV analyst and radio host. This week Gottlieb looks at Zion Williamson's impressive Duke debut, the dangers of overreacting to early season performances, and first impressions of Kentucky, Michigan State, and Kansas. Former UCLA national champion and JBA Coach Kristaan Johnson discusses his experience coaching in LaVar Ball's JBA league, LaMelo's return to high school, and if he's NBA legit. Follow Doug on twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming till he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb, and this is all ball, all basketball all the time. And as much as I'd love to review for you, what's wrong with the Washington Wizards? They stink.

I mean, look, the big thing with the Wizards stinking, is that once you start playing the non-playoff teams, that's when you have to start winning games. And at the time of this recording, it's Wednesday morning right after we saw Duke, smash, Kentucky, and Kansas hold on to beat Michigan State. Right before this recording, they just lost to the Dallas Mavericks,

a team that faint playoff hopes. And now the sudden you start to go, okay, there's major problems in that locker room. I'll get to that. I'll get to some LeBron. and Lakers thoughts. And I'll get to some of what I've seen from the Toronto Raptors as well

as the Boston Celtics and the controversy, non-traversy with Jamal Murray dropping, what was it, 48, but going for 50 as the buzzer expired. We'll get to that in a second. But first, let's take a deep dive in to the Champions Classic.

First, we saw Kansas, and they did so without DeSuzza. They got out to a huge lead and held on against Michigan State. And look, Michigan, part of what happens is we become very result-oriented. We do this every single year, every year in the Champions Classic, in the Maui Invitational, in the Bahamas. We overreact to results instead of watching the actual game itself. I'm going to get to Zion.

I'm going to get to RJ Barrett. I'm going to take a deep dive in on Kentucky and some of the. issues and flaws in a second. But to the Michigan State guy that's like, well, look, we just didn't make shots in the first half. That's where we're down 14. Should be pointed out that Diedrich Lawson was 5 of 18, right? And even though he's not a great athlete, he's a very good player and an excellent passer, the idea that Michigan State not making shots was the reason they lost.

I think one of the big issues of Michigan State is that at some very key spots, they don't have great athleticism. You know, they're kind of big and lumbering. Even Cash Winston, Cassius Winston, who's a really good shot-making lead guard, like he's not going to tear into you defensively. Neither is Matt McQuaid and neither is Nick Ward. So even though they bring some very good athleticism out the bench, you know, when they're going to try and beat you, those are three of, if not,

those are three best players, right, or three of their best players, along with the goings. and they can't necessarily change how you play. Now, again, that doesn't mean that they can't beat you. That doesn't mean that they can't beat you. A lot of people, they'll always get into me on Duke's last national championship, or next to last national championship, I get the national championships confused. When they had John Shire, you remember that team? They had John Shire, they had Nolan Smith, and they had Kyle Singleton.

Remember that team? Yeah. So what Duke fans will jump on me for is at the start of the year, they played Arizona State in Madison Square Garden. And me and Jay Williams were on the set. And this was before Mason Plumley, I believe, got eligible. And Arizona State was spreading them out. And they were doing the Duke thing where they were trying to climb into you defensively. And how Duke has used to play, which is just deny, deny everything.

Get up into every passing lane. climb India. And Arizona State was slicing and dicing them. I mean, it was really impressive what Herb Sondex crew was doing was, you know, using the dribble instead of running pure Princeton offense. And they were getting right to the room. And I said that Duke was alarmingly unathletic. And what Duke fans to this day, they're like, oh, Duke alarmingly on athletic. Well, look, I understand that some people aren't smart enough to understand, but basketball people.

And if you're listening to this, you're probably a basketball dude or at least a basketball fan, you can understand that if you go back and watch that season, and about mid-season, they started playing Brian Zubek more. And Zubek became an incredible rim protector and rebounder. And they were the best rebounding and two-point and defensive team in the country. And what they did was they decided, hey, we have John Shire, we have Kyle Singler, we have Nolan Smith, we have Brian Zubek and Lance Thompson. we don't have great athleticism to climb into you

and we're going to get beat off the dribble if we over pressure. So they basically paid packline. You know, they use their size and made you make shots over the top. And there are very few teams that can make shots over the top if you're really committed to really good packline defense. And so when I say that Michigan State doesn't have the athleticism to climb into people. It doesn't mean that they can't win the Big Ten.

Doesn't mean they can't win the NCAA tournament. It just means that it's prohibitively more difficult to pressure teams out of what they want to do. And against the Kansas team, let's also be honest, in the first half, Quinn Grimes is not that is, I don't believe he's as good as shooter at this point as he shot last night. The big question, and he's a great player, the big question for KU is going to be shot making. is going to be shooting, shot making. And then also can Yudoka Azabouque, can he play when a team goes small, right? And when he gets tired, can he play, that's why they lost to, got blown out by Villanova,

is you just can't hide him. There was nobody that Villanova threw out there that he could guard out around the three-point line. And even though he's massively improved and become a really good player. And if this was 10 years ago, Yudocque would be a lottery pick. It's hard to hide those guys against teams that play five out. Like, for example, a Duke plays five out. But for Michigan State, I think they'll have the same problem.

You know, and Nick Ward, can he guard in the perimeter? He's a really good player. Can he guard the perimeter? And can they defend the ball when people spread them out. Now, they can play packline. They can adjust their style to their personnel. And I still think they're going to have a really good year. And look, they pop 51 points on Kansas and be.

become very competitive and they're going to start to figure out who they are and they missed a ton of free throws last night, which I think some of that you attest to nerves as much as anything. But, you know, it's important to point out that you have to have a good sense, five, seven games to figure out your personnel and how you want to play offensively and defensively with that personnel. You know, the issue with Michigan State. last year wasn't talent. It was they were just too front loaded with front with front line players. You know, Miles Bridges was at his best at the four. And honestly, you could have gotten away with him at the five, right? But that's not how Michigan State plays. They didn't have enough good

perimeter players to play that. And then they had Jackson as well. And, you know, Darren Jackson was probably best when he was at the five. But then they had Nick Ward, who's a really good low post player. And they're best when you want to put your best players out on the floor. Okay, we put your best players on the floor. And now a sudden you struggled defensively to guard the perimeter. And offensively, you know, Jackson may have made shots, but I don't know if he's as good a shooter as the numbers would tell you. Bridges was more of a driver than a pure three-point shooter.

And of course, when they got to the NCAA tournament, they went super, super cold being forced to make jump shots against Syracuse's own. So you have to figure out your personnel on how you want to play. I will say that I thought Michigan State showed a lot of fight. I still think they're a good team. I still think they're likely to win the big 10. But my fear in national games is there's a lot of teams, a lot more teams that have athleticism that can spread them out.

Like when they play a UCLA, I think a UCLA team can spread them out. That's really the only other, you know, national game upcoming that you're sitting there going, yeah, I see. And that's, of course, the tournament where they'll play the winner or loser of, who is it they play UCLA and then they'll probably play like Texas the next night or whatever so like I think that one's going to be fascinating to watch but I'm not selling all my Michigan state stock I'm just having smart Michigan state stock as for Kansas I couldn't grinds pretty good and they got nothing out of the Gerald Vic who remember he was gone and he didn't want to come back

and they didn't want him back and then he's back and then he felt last night like he was trying to show why he shouldn't be back and he should be in the NBA. And Legerilvic is just, he's just kind of a fifth guy. They're going to have to find a fifth guy. I don't think it'll be Charlie Moore, who they like more as a bit player, bench player, Charlie Moore, another guy who can't really change the game defensively and it's kind of a shot not offensively. Maybe it'll be KJ Lawson.

Maybe, you know, I like KJ. Lawson as a bench player more than as a starter. Maybe to be Marcus Garrett. a guy who played a good amount last year. But they need a fifth player. Dedric Lawson also gives them the ability to play as a stretch five and spread them out. But you need more guards to play that way. You need more perimeter players if you want to play small ball and spread people out and beat people off the dribble and then climb into them defensively.

Kind of what we talked about with Michigan State. So day one, Kansas looked really, really good. But part of it was helped by they got out to a big lead and made Michigan State play catch up. you get to a 15, 20 point advantage, and it's really, really hard to lose a game. But I also think that Kansas is really good. The problem with Kansas is if they had the Sousa and if there wasn't any NCAA investigation,

and there will be an NCAA investigation, as it was announced yesterday, that the FBI can turn over all their stuff to the NCAA. I think Kansas would win the Big 12, and they still may do it anyway, and I think Kansas would be one of the couple favorites to reach the Final Four. I do think that off the court stuff and not having to susa who's a really good player

those are two things that there's always seems to be something that keeps a bill self from winning a national championship right he has joel and bd and joel and bids gets hurt he's had other you know major injuries and now you have a suspension of a really talented player maybe they just make desusa pay some sort of money back and have a miss eight 10 games or the first semester and then have them play if that happens and remember the courts found as as if you listen to mike decorsey who was on our podcast earlier if that happens and they get cleared and as as de course he said look the courts found kansas to be a victim and if that's their get out of jail free card and they get to play on pure talent and coaching and length if they can get enough shot making they can win this

entire thing if you don't believe even as good as duke is Duke is not deep And they still have a bunch of youngsters and Kentucky didn't change the way they were playing defensively. I think Kansas will have a shot. Now, all right, let's get to a deep dive into Duke, taking on Kentucky. I mean, what do you want me to say? Duke was so good.

They were so good. It was a joke. It was a joke how good they were. I do want to point out that Kentucky was awful. And they were awful from this perspective. at this point in time in the year, sometimes you don't know what you're going to get from freshmen. Perfect example is Ashton Higgins comes out and fouls on like the first possession,

which is a classic freshman move. My dad used to tell me, my first game, my first exhibition game at Notre Dame, I didn't play that much. And I was like, and I wasn't playing well in practice, but I was told I was going to start.

And all of a sudden, I barely played my first exhibition game. My second exhibition game, we played athletes in action, and John McLeod came and means a doggie, you're going to play a bunch of last night, once you get ready. So I get ready and get out there. I had four fouls and eight minutes of action.

I might even fouled out in like 12 minutes. My dad pulled me aside after the game. He said, listen, you can't get your second foul if you don't get your first. And that was something that rang in my head for the rest of my career. Like, don't get your first dumb foul. in the first couple of minutes.

If you have a foul, if you have no fouls at the end of the first, by the end of the first half, and you're still playing hard. You still want to play a hard defensive. You just don't play dumb. And you're fine. You're golden.

Now, I was also fortunate that later on in my career, I played for Eddie Sutton, who I saw him play, Adrian Peterson, our best player for my first two years. I saw him play Agent Peterson four fouls in the first half. Like his thing was like,

you get five. Don't you stop fouling? But Ashton Hagen's learned a really good lesson. last night, which is you can't get your second if you don't get your first. But my disappointment in Kentucky is this. They had Reed Travis, who ended up with 22 and 7, but like, dude got three or four post touches in the first half. He's not a great defensive player.

They're going to have to figure out how to play him and Nick Richards, another post player, together if they can, that's hard. PJ Washington being able to stretch you out a little bit helps. But when everything else is going bad, and you can't contain Duke in transition, and you're trying to kind of slow the pace, like throw the ball inside to read Travis. Throw the ball inside to read Travis.

I thought their defensive transition was awful. I thought Quate Green looked like he had regressed, and that's what happened sometimes. When you bring in, they bring in quickly, they bring in Higgins, and he's not in the starting line up. Bring in Hero. He's not in the starting lineup.

And he came in and, like, immediately turned the ball over and didn't get back on defense. And, like, it didn't get better. It got worse. He's always appeared to me to be a little smallish. Like, you can be small in stature, but you've got to kind of make your presence known, like, physically. He's not physically imposing in any way. And, you know, he's not a great shooter. He does turn the basketball over.

He doesn't make good decisions. And he wasn't back defensively. And that's a guy who's played an entire year. And remember, Kentucky kind of turned their season when they decided that that Shea Gildes Alexander was the guy, and they took quite a agreeing completely off the point last year. So I thought he'd be a good combo, but that's because I also thought that Higgins was better and quickly was better. And they're just freshmen. But Kentucky's inability to get the ball inside to read Travis, the fact they're still kind of running, you know,

they're running dribble drive motion. which is not good for Reed Travis as a post player that you never throw the ball of the post in that deal. And then they're running, I do think they'll throw it into the post out of the floppy action that they always run. But just they don't appear

if you have Reed Travis on your team, if you're going to get him to transfer in, he comes in. If I'm John Calipari, and I do think that Calipari is a good coach, will get them to play smarter, continue to play harder, and they will throw the ball inside. But many of you are coaches and basketball people who know this.

Like the first thing you got to figure out is, all right, how am I going to throw the ball to a guy that's going to score, you know, 15, 20 a game? And then how do we play off of that? You know, what are our split cuts? What are our rules? You don't have to put in offense. Just put in rules when the ball goes in the low post. And they didn't seem to have rules.

Now, a lot of that is out of youth, but some of that is out of coaching. And it's maybe it's, it's hard to when you're trying to teach all this other stuff. But they've played the Bahamas. They've practiced for months together. I was stunned at how inefficient they were at playing off the post. And then, you know, it's pretty obvious that Kelton Johnson is a guy who can go get buckets, right? So those are your two bucket getters.

And Hero will shoot the ball better. He's not a very good defensive player, although he was forced with trying to guard RJ Barrett, which is, I mean, good luck. And then do they have it? It's kind of the same problem again. Do they have enough shot making, shooting, as well as defense to go around the guys, you know, the scores that they do have? But I was just, I was disappointed that Kentucky at some point make an adjustment, you know, at some point, the ball goes through the bucket and get into a matchup zone, you know, full court press to slow. Duke down. Instead, Duke gets a running start and it's just mismatch after mismatch.

You know, and maybe that's Calipari just trying to make a point. Like, you know what? You guys want to do it your way? Fine. Go ahead. You do it your way. We'll take my worst loss ever and this will allow us to coach. But there weren't a ton of adjustments made in terms of understanding personnel, making RJ Barrett go to his right hand instead of his left hand, not allowing Reed Travis, not allowed Reed Travis to guard Zion Williamson. If Zion Williamson dribbles the ball up to court, he shouldn't be guarded by Reed Travis.

Like that, somebody should say switch because that was not going to work. And then you can't leave Cam Reddish. Make somebody else beat you. Make, you know, Jack White beat you. Make Trey Jones beat you. Make Marcus Bolden beat you. Guard those three guys.

You make him play in the half court. And they didn't. And so I wonder how much of this is about Duke and how much of it is about Kentucky. And I guess the smart human being in me says, and you're probably thinking the same thing, it's a little bit of both. So Duke, but there was a lot of Kentucky. I mean, you just can't give up. Those guys are so good in transition.

And especially when you're young, you're much better in the full court than you are at the half court. And then you got to keep RJ Barrett away from his left hand. And you got to keep all those guys away from playing downhill. And credit Mike Shoshavsky with going five out and letting them, you know, hand the ball off and set ball screens and play downhill and spread you out. But also point out that Kentucky did a bad job of defending the handoffs, the ball screens, and didn't rotate well and didn't get back on defense.

And then, you know, you start getting confidence. And guys who are okay shooters are knocking down shots and good shooters are feeling great. I mean, they just, there was nothing standing in their way. Now, that's for Duke. Really good. And I thought the best part of the entire thing was, if you've watched RJ Barrett play, I remember you got 26 shots.

Like, that's a lot of shots. They played off of RJ Barrett. And Zion Williamson, for a guy who has that much hype and that many, you know, followers on IG and Twitter and is a YouTube sensation, he was not a pig. He played hard.

He played within himself. He took good shots. He moved the basketball. He handled it. some, he defended some, he rebounded some, and there's some jaw-dropping plays. And I frankly think that's what he's going to be if it's going to translate to the next level. I don't know if he's because of his size and his weight, I mean, look, he's 6'5, 285 pounds, right? That's a lot of weight to carry.

And this is in kind of peak physical condition at 18 years old. I do wonder if the weight, and most people wonder, if the weight's going to be a problem. But if he can play without having to exert himself every time down the floor and just try and take dudes every time down the floor, then he was tremendous. Tremendous. It's important to recognize it's only one game. It's important to recognize that smart teams are going to make everybody else beat you. But if you're going to beat Duke, you better keep R.J. Barrett away from his left hand. You better not let Cam Reddish getting the looks.

And you better make Zion Williams, another guy. Can't let him get to his left. You know, can't let him get going downhill, right? We got to continue to make him take contested threes, threes, threes off the dribble, and then make everybody else beat you. But they look great. And the most impressive thing, R.J. Barrett, I wouldn't even call it. 13 and 26, there were a couple shots I would take back.

But that is actually his role. Reddish is a shooter. Those are, that is his role. And Zion Williamson is not a go-to. score, although when he gets a mismatch, he will score on you. He gets an inch, he will take a yard. I think I was most impressed by the guys playing mostly within themselves. That said, RJ Barrett did take 26 shots.

Their schedule is fascinating, you know. We'll see him against San Diego State. We'll see him against Indiana. That Clemson game in January is going to be amazing. Clemson starts four fifth year seniors. And if I was to re-rank the teams, yeah, one night in, I'm going to put Duke at number one. But Kansas was impressive.

They do have some size, athleticism, a little bit more age. I don't know if they have the shot making. I do think they would adjust their style to play against the Duke. And then there's some other teams up there that we still haven't seen, but getting a chance to see three or four the top teams all on the same floor, maybe the thing that jumps out to you. And we still, we haven't seen Gonzaga against an elite team yet. We will eventually.

You know, there's a Virginia. we saw Nevada who struggled a little bit with the BYU team playing at home. We saw Carolina who, that's a tough win to go in and beat Wofford on the road. I love those games. I don't know why more big-time teams don't play those. It's a no-loo. Even when you lose that game, it's not like that's going to ever knock Carolina out of the NCAA term. You learn so much about your team.

Fletcher McGee did struggle. He was 7 of 23, but I think he'll still be an NBA player. He's a catch-and-shoot guy who can score a little bit off the dribble, tough enough to guard. You know, maybe a rotation player in the NBA. He's the senior 6'4, 200-pound stud. He's originally from Orlando. Can really, really shoot the basketball. He's, I think he's about to turn 22 years old.

Fletcher McGee will be, I think he'll be in the NBA. But Carolina went down there, beat him, and showed, I thought, excellent patience, excellent poise. Everyone touched the basketball. And obviously, they're fantastic in transition. but they showed a good half-court offense for this point in time. Now, it's helped by the fact that though Wofford's a really good well-coached team, they're not going to out-athletes you and take you out of what you want to do defensively.

They will make you guard when you're on defense. But one day in, who's not impressed by Zion Williamson? He was awesome. And his efficiency, his lack of ego at times, and how hard he played and how his body looked, that was really, really impressive. To hand John Calipari his worst loss ever with a freshman-laden team. Whew.

It's incredible. I've seen on ESPN, I'm comparing them to the Fab 5, and I understand it's because of the idea of having five freshmen. But when did the Fab 5 become the team that we measure everybody against? And maybe I'm looking at it in too narrow a scope, right? that 5-5 team in all honesty had three great players this team though this team has three great players as well maybe it's because i hold it against michigan for not winning a big 10 title and not winning an nca championship they did get to two straight championship games and they were they were legit and you had three incredible players in that team but um you know the hype train is now going to be out of

control and we'll see if Duke continues to play hard enough defensively. Before I get to former UCLA standout, Chris Johnson, son of Marcus Johnson, a former UCLA superstar, I want to talk to you about keeps. Maybe you've noticed you got a little less hair than you used to, but you're not sure there's a real solution. The thing is, there are two clinically proven medications that can let you keep your hair. And now they're inexpensive and easy to get. You don't need to lose your hair if you don't want to. And that's why I got to tell about Keeps for five minutes right now and just $1 a day, you'll never have to worry about hair loss again. It really works. Keeps offers two FDA approved hair loss products clinically

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dot com slash Doug, D-O-U-G. That's a free month of keeps. Dot com slash Doug. Keeps. Hair today, hair tomorrow. Let's talk all things, soup. There's a bunch of interesting things going on

in college basketball. I want to talk to some lamello ball as well as he's going to play for the Spire Academy. And I also want to get a little taste of what's going on in the West Coast, especially with UCLA and with Oregon. who's better at that than my longtime friend, Christon Johnson. KJ, of course, coached in the JBA this past season and has worked at the youth level with Earl Watson usually.

That's usually when you run your clinics and when you coached in AU, it's with Earl Watson's group? No, it was with the truth. Nike YBL Paul Pearson's program. And then, of course, his dad is the color voice of the Milwaukee Bucks. So there's just a ton to get to Chris Johnson joining us. And by the way, congratulations on your new business, Blow Torrance. That's pretty awesome, right?

I just love that you have a million things going on. Yeah, I do. It's a lot of fun. I'll tell you what. Business is a trip, but there's ups and downs and flows, and we're just trying to get the hang of it. All right. First, you coached in the JBA.

Of course, that was LeVar Ball's basketball league, which is for guys in between, you know, not playing. It was, it's kind of honestly, there was a lot of USBL to it, a league I used to play in, which was in May and June, you play a ton of games, pro rules, although the players were much younger than the USBL. What was it experience like for you? It was an eye-opening experience from, as a coach, because, you know, you just don't, you realize, and you get to see the, how many guys, talented guys are out there that don't get the opportunity to play in college

basketball or didn't have the grade to qualify to play college basketball. But they were all looked at and they were all highly regarded. But for one reason or another, they didn't make it. So, I mean, that, you know, it was a world win experience, Doug. I mean, they fit, it was about 60 to 75 days. I mean, we may have had three days off, you know, fit a bunch of games in. all throughout the summer, traveled the country from Trenton, New Jersey to Las Vegas. We were all over the place.

I had a great time. It was a gratifying experience for me. Who was your best player? Our best player was a kid by the name of Jarrell Springer. He's a 6-6 guard out of Las Vegas. Long, athletic, could run the one, played a little bit of two, just kind of a jack-of-all-trade, did it all. He was big-tum. pretty big time. He's still on the tour actually overseas kick and butt,

an average about 27 points of game. Why did LeMello decide to come back and go to Spire? You know, I'd like to think that this was LeVar's plan all this whole time. I know that, you know, giving LeVar credit for having the foresight, the plan and executing the plan isn't a popular stance, but I do truly believe that since he pulled Mello out. out of Chino Hills. Apologies for the phone in the background, but since he pulled Mello out of Chino Hills, put him over in Lithuania,

then had him in the JBA, and then after the JBA took him on this tour, it just seemed to me like LeVar was doing everything that he could to advance Mello's basketball development. I mean, we've never seen anything like it as far as a dad kind of coming in, creating a league just so that his son could play against older, stronger, more experienced,

competition on the night in and night out basis. Not only that, just to kind of get a whiff of what it's like to be a pro on the road, playing back to back, having to get up early flights, long bus rides, et cetera. And, you know, mellow passed that test with flying colors, in my opinion. Okay, there's a bunch there to, let's unpack a little bit of it. Okay. I actually, I mean, like, I don't want to be, I'm not super negative towards LeVar because, you know, you played for my dad and you know that my dad would have, you know, had he been live today and I'd

come out of high school, I'm not sure he wouldn't have tried something other than the normal path. You know, I went to a different high school. I stayed back a year in eighth grade. Obviously not the same, but the idea is still trying to open up as many doors, create as many opportunities for me to play in college and then for me to play professionally. And I almost wish he had been more involved when I came out of school. I kind of shunned him and said, you know, I got an agent, let's let them handle it because his basketball intuition was probably sharper than

an agent's basketball intuition. That said, that said, why not just put him on a legit pro team overseas with a really good junior program and have the hands off and let them develop the things

that he doesn't do well? In Australia for example, or somewhere in Spain, maybe he doesn't come back to the states for two years, but wouldn't that be better for his development, considering he has a ton of talent and he's bigger than Lanzo, but the holes to his game need to be short up before he comes back stateside and tries to play in the NBA.

Yeah, though, you make some good points there, Doug, and to speak specifically on why LeVar may have not opted for one of these top tier, you know, Real Madrid or, you know, somewhere in Italy, Milan, these big-time programs, because then you lose control. So, you know, and we know that LeVar is all about having control, having to say, being able to call the shots, being able to kind of, you know, put his, whatever, stamp on the situation. And none of these big clubs would have allowed him to. Now, look, look at this. He played. So Mello goes from Chino Hills to Lithuania, and, you know, obviously it was, you know, the lower level in Lithuania.

But isn't that, to me, practice, gain the experience of Lithuania? isn't that better than playing a high school season, Chino Hills, where you're playing against these schools, you're beating by 40 and 50 points, and, you know, depending on the schedule, you're just not really getting tested day in, day out, from a practice perspective. Doug, you know how important it is

when you have some guys in practice, some absolute dogs for your development. When you're going against guys every single day that are going at your neck, you know how important that is to your basketball development. And I think that's what LeVar tried to recalogue. create. He had guys. He surrounded Mello with guys to wear in this league that we're going to go at his neck, night in, night out. And I think Mello became a better player because of it.

How good is he? I feel like, to me, I mean, outside of R.J. Barrett in the 2019 class, I think that he's, you know, he's a prodigy. He's a prodigist talent. He has a skill set that I haven't, I haven't, seen someone that's 16 years old at that site, well, when he was 16. Now he's 17, obviously, but I was watching when he was six. I've been watching season 13. But he really impressed me at 16 in this JPA league during the summer. We were game planning.

We were strategizing. We were scheming against him. And it was literally like child's play for him, Doug. He moves at a different speed. He sees the game. He thinks the game at a different speed and a different pace. And he has all those lonso intangibles. when it comes to offensively and being able, I mean, when it comes to passive, when it comes to

court vision, when it comes to, you know, the play slowing down like you're in the Matrix. Mello is always a step ahead. He's always a pass ahead. And because of that, I just feel like, you know, this kid's talent on the next level, it will really shine through once you put them around. And this year, he's going to have some guys that fire that are going to help, you know, kind of showcase that talent. Rocket Watts is the name that I think I need.

I think you need to remember a kid from Detroit absolutely was on fire at the YBL last summer and spring. I got a chance to watch him along with the big kid and some other guys they got. So all that to be said, I think he's going to be a top 10 draft pick. He will, I mean, by the time he comes out, I feel like he could be a top five pounds. Yeah, you know, the couple of things. And I'm interested to see him play with Spire because I want to see if he can play. this is it's going to sound like a complete knock

but I want to see if you can play a real basketball I want to see if you can run a team if he can defend because in all honesty like as and I think I thought Lonzo had an incredible amount of talent

Lonzo has made himself into a better athlete and he's always had really better end-to-end speed than it seems like Lamello has obviously Lamello's bigger and longer

and Lamello's shot is better than Lanzo's shots always always you know had that had that hitch off the dribble that he's been able to get away with. But because he hadn't ever really played pick and roll, like he's had to learn that on the fly.

That's really hard to learn at 19 years old playing in the NBA. And then he lost this offseason to the knee. So he built up his body, but he really didn't get to have court time and work on his finishing shots. And didn't really understand defensive concepts outside of the way that the balls have always played,

which is full court pickup. And anything, Also, Lonzo was too unselfish. Advance passing the ball, you know, way too quickly, instead of playing within the normal pace of a game which you'll play in the NBA, and he's still kind of learning on the fly.

I think that's my question for Mello is, can they will Spire make him play real basketball if they can get in and compete against the other elite prep school teams? And if so, how does he function within that environment? That's the part that I'm interested to see. That's a great question. And, you know, to Lanzos, to just quickly touch on Lanzo, to his credit, Lanzo was able to average almost 11 points of game,

seven rebounds, seven assists, without being acclimated to the NBA game. I think that Mello at Spire will have, will adjust to the game a lot quicker. I'm not certain that they won't run that 2-21 all-dogan day. I'm not certain that they won't, you know, pick up full and play that style. And then offensively, the thing about Mello does is that offensively, whether it be pick and roll, whether it be, you know, flopping sets or whether it be whatever you're running that day, Melo's smart enough to figure this stuff out. Mello can run a pick and roll efficiently.

He knows how to make read. He knows how to make decisions at moving at a fast speed. He plays under control a lot more than people give him credit for. So I don't think the adjustment It's going to be that serious, that longest basketball At the end of the day, though All right, let's get KJ, let's get to the Lakers

When I watch them, I know that LeBron's trying to figure out who else can take over a game, who he can trust. Like, I do get that. But I'm still also waiting for LeBron to play like LeBron. Like, hey, just screw it.

Everybody get on my way. I'm going to win a game tonight, just to show. the world who I am. There's this weird kind of thing. There are moments and there are quarters where he takes over and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, he still got it.

And he does, he looks very, very comfortable, much more comfortable shooting, catch and shoot jump shots than he ever has before in his career. And I do think he's trying to fit in with a different system. And sometimes you've done this. When you fit in with a system that you don't really fit in with,

you just kind of play and you're, and people are wondering like, why are you letting the game come to you? Like, well, that's what everybody's supposed to do. Let it come to you. But I'm wondering why he hasn't broken out even once yet and just gone, excuse my language, fuck him to win this game just to show them I'm still LeBron James. How come you think we haven't seen that?

Well, you know, I think he's still in deferring mode. I think LeBron is still in the mode. And I've seen this before from LeBron. I saw it early on with him and D. Wade with the heat. The heat struggled. They were at one point, you know, nine and eight. during that 2011 season when they made it to the finals but eventually lost to Dallas.

I saw the same tendencies from LeBron. And I think that is strictly, it's a new team thing. So we're looking at it from, okay, the season is broken up, 82 games, you know, first 30 games. I kind of, I give LeBron about 30 games when he's getting afflimate to a new program to figure this thing out. And then after that, I think he'll take more of a role. Now, the other part of it also, this is year 16 from LeBron.

So the takeover aspect, the bully ball, the things that we've seen from him in the past, physically it just doesn't look like he still has that on that night-in, night-out faces, especially on the second leg of a back-to-back. I just don't see that from Braun. I don't see that same kind of bark, that pep in his step. Totally great. To where he goes into takeover mode. And a lot of the two is defensively, you know, I don't think that he nor the Lakers are dialed in or giving up enough energy and effort.

So I don't know if it's a conditioning thing. I'd be curious to see what the offseason look like. But, you know, year 16 coupled with that new program, I think that, you know, those are some of the things that you kind of have to attribute to why he's not doing stuff. Yeah. And I also wonder, like, look, you live in Los Angeles and it's been kind of your entire life, right? I mean, your dad was a pro and an all-star, and, you know, you've kind of, you've grown up into that. I grew up in Orange County, which is for people who don't know, it's, I'm, you know,

45 minutes away, and even though I work up in Los Angeles, it's, it's, there's a different pace there. And it's one thing to, hey, I've been to New York before and understand the energy of it. I've been to the West L.A. before, and I understand you. It's another thing to where it's, that's now your life, right? Your first, this is what we. noticed and I've lived in Connecticut 12 the last 16 years we moved back to Orange County which is not as fast and is not as not as there's not the intensity that there is

of Los Angeles of New York or New York we moved back twice and both times there was a good first six months where we liked it I mean you love the weather you love that people are kind of into their own thing so they're not as much into you which is great you kind of can do your own thing but the pace was it was was exhausting. It really was for us. And I also wonder, you know, I'm not making a big deal about him. I think he went to Diddy's like birthday party after they got blown out by the Raptors without Kauai. Like I don't like, look, he was going to go to dinner anyway. You know, I don't, stars go to dinner with stars like, I would love to be invited to that dinner. But, but the fact that you have to go,

like these are, there are things that you now have to do that before you could just go to the crib and have a guy cook for you and watch a movie. It's just different. And I also wonder if that adjustment isn't that combined with 34 years old combined with 16 years in the league combined with maybe not having the same offseason training before and trying to fit in a new system and not having another guy that can carry the team and not having the you know any sort of a rim protection when javel's not in and suddenly playing a back like all of that stuff might be wearing on him a little bit more so than he thought possible is that is that in any way possible i agree Doug i mean it is a combination of everything but we got to keep things

and perspective. So we're talking about all these things, right? The guy is still averaging 27.8 rebound, eight assists. Now, we take that for granted because we expect LeBron to do that. LeBron can do that in his sleep. But when are we going to take into account that this is a 34-year-old with, you know, millions of miles on his body, okay, more so than the normal 34-year-old basketball players that's competing because he's been eight-rate finals, so 100-game seasons for the last eight years and now you come to LA you are trying to make a dent into Hollywood

which he has so that also includes a lot of extracurricular activity so he tries to keep up this pace that he's kept up for basically his entire career and I'm not saying that's the issue Doug I'm saying that at some

point we have to understand this man may be a little tired he may have lost a half a step and or he may need 30 games to shake off this rust and they really get warm before he's the LeBron that we all know and are used to. Does Luke make it through the year?

You know, it depends on the liquor success. I don't, you know, I think if they win games, he'll make. Oh, okay, but here's, I'm sorry to interrupt, but here's why I ask. It's not that they had a meeting with, it's not that Magic had a meeting with him. That happens, right? They don't play well on the road.

They don't have a defensive identity. You want to meet with your head coach. That happens. Somebody let it out there to Woj, right? Which means somebody doesn't like what's going on there. And so it plants a seed where everybody gets defensive. We're not going to fire Luke. And, you know, with the exception, now Spolstra,

Riley stood by Spolstra, but Riley also hired Spolstra. Magic and Polinka did not hire Luke Walton. Jeannie did. So I just, I, go with your best in, obviously, like, look, if they start winning games, but your best senses,

you know L.A. basketball better than most anybody in the world. Your senses say, are they into Luke for the long haul? I don't think so. Just given the track record of how Magic and Rob have started to clean a house

from a front office perspective and an employee and staffing perspective, I read somewhere where Magic wasn't entirely thrilled about Luke's choices for his staff. He felt like, well, this didn't know what Magic said, but the kind of the fettled butt is too many Arizona bros on the staff. Regardless of all that, any time you have, you know, magic having to be out in the front backtracking or validating Luke's job security, typically when an exec is talking about someone's job security and talking about they're going to stay, I feel like that's a death sentence.

The handwriting is on the wall. So the way I feel, I don't think Luke makes it through the season. I think they make a change. Maybe Mark Jackson, maybe somebody else. There's been some names out there thrown. But again, Luke has a unique ability to relate to this generation's kind of player. And Magic is from the old guard. he probably has this idea of how, you know, things should be run as a coach.

You know, Madge's going to put his hand in the pot. Madge he's going to, you know, throw his two cents in there. And so if there is a disconnect there on how things should be run versus the way Luke's personality is and how he deals with guys, then I don't think the relationship's going to last. Fascinating. I agree with you. Luke does have a great way and guys really like him. And the guys I know around the league and guys obviously on that staff are like, he's a really, really good coach, but it doesn't, unless your boss is super into you. And then I think the other thing

is that, you know, remember all these players, the exception of Brandon Ingram were selected by Polinka and Magic. And so you can't, it's hard for Luke to go to Polink and Magic and going like, hey, these guys aren't that good. They're like, hey, we selected these guys. We want these guys. So I think that part of it is fascinating. All right, let's get to a couple college basketball topics. last night we saw R.J. Barrett, we saw Zion Williamson. I thought Kentucky looked awful. I talked a little bit earlier on the pod about that's going to be the least discussed part about it was Kentucky's point guard play, their preparation. They didn't really make adjustments.

I almost feel like Calgary at some point goes, you know, let's let them get their ass kicked and see how it feels and see what kind of adjustments we can make in the future. but you mentioned R.J. Barrett being the number one prospect, and yet if you watch ESPN or you watch any of these shows, everybody's only talking about Zion. What makes RJ Barrett so good? Well, six, seven, strong, big body at the guard, can handle it. But more importantly, he's a tough shot maker. He's one of these guys that when he brings it up the floor,

he just feel like he's going to take care of it. He's poised with the basketball at that size. I think he's more I'm look, Zion is Zion Zion is awesome Zion is just next I would put my money on RJ Barrett just because I have concerns

about Zion being able to keep up this type of pace being 285 pounds being this explosive and playing the type of game that he plays I just feel like you know and I never wish injury on anyone I've been that big and I was nothing

like Zion but I know how carrying that type of weight take this toll on you. When you first got to, when you first got to UCLA, and when I played with you, you were amazing, you had amazing dexterity considering you're always heavy in high school. It was before you trimmed up. What was your heaviest?

About 280, 285. Yeah, which is what he is now. But now, look, he's built a little bit more like a linebacker. You were big. And then you ended up, when you got in great shape, you were, what, 2.30? 215, 220? That's amazing.

Yeah. I just, everybody I talked to in the NBA is like, look, the weight's always going to be an issue with him. He's not one of these guys that can, and your name came up. He's not Chris Johnson who can change his diet. Like, he's just thick and he's in great shape, but he's big. But, you know, like, you're fighting that when you're on the, like, that's a hard one to fight. How hard is it to fight once you, when you're playing, like, when you're playing, like, like on your senior year or after college, like to keep that weight in check?

Well, the everyday thing, does it's the everyday thing. Got to say religious with the cardio. Got to say religious with the diet. You know, every meal is, you know, you got to make the right choice. You know, it just depends on how obsessive that an athlete can get. Me, personally, I got really obsessive at times. And other times I got obsessive about Doritos and, you know, fried chicken. So, you know, I, I, I, favorite kind of Doritos is what?

Hold on. Favorite kind of Doritos is what? Cool Ranch. Cool Ranch is the best. That's always, that's the correct answer. The original taco flavor ones are good, but Cool Ranch is the best. Yeah, the taco flavors are unbelievable, the old schools, but I go with Cool Ranch more times than not.

But as far as Zion is concerned, and, you know, his weight, I'm sure that's sure. He, you know, with today's training methods, today's nutritionists, and all the resources that athletes have at their disposal to keep them in shape. I'm sure that he it shouldn't be a problem. But just that size, man, that, I mean, and he's 285, probably about what, 10% body fat,

12, 11%, like, you know, he's cut. He's huge. And he's taking off these drop steps, dumps, these one leg, from, you know, a step inside the foul line, you know, on two people. That stuff is going to take it's told. I don't care what anyone says, and I hate to say this,

But, I mean, unless he probably – I think he might need to drop about 15 pounds, get down, and then I'd project him out on the longer term to be a better player in the long term than RJ Barrett. But he's got to lose some weight, in my opinion. RJ Barron, on the other hand, he's ready-made. He has the experience internationally as well as – you know, Mount Verdy. Now Duke, all highest levels. I'm just really impressed by him in his demeanor and his approach to the game. UCLA this year.

Kind of interesting. You lose Welsh. You lose Aaron Holiday. And Aaron Holiday did everything for them. But it feels like they have more talent top to bottom on the roster than they had since, you know, two years ago. And when Lonzo saved Alford's job. What's your perspective on this UCLA team, which does, it has a lot of freshmen and some sophomores that can really play. But we don't know who the alpha is and how they'll actually,

Are they going to play fast? Are they going to get back to being a motion team the way Alford was? You know, two years ago when they played well is because they, you know, he took the reins off and they pressed and played fast. Give me your sense of UCLA this season. I think their best bet, given the current state of the roster, is to play the fast up-temp-old style offensively. Now, the big issue with the Bruins over during Alford's tenure has been defense, has been five guys, you know, playing like a cohesive unit. help side has been deplorable the way they, you know, contest, you know, close out to everything that you can possibly name just hasn't been up to part. But I think with this year's iteration of squad, when you have a 7-2 Moses Brown, you have guys like Jalen Hans, David Singleton, who is now the backup point guard, along with, you know, the Uber athlete Chris Wilk.

You know, Alfred and their staff has been working their butts off this summer with a new focus. Look, Alfred, UCLA, they know that this is a make or break year. They know that anything short of the final four, and, you know, we might be saying goodbye to Coach Alford. A final four? I think that's what I'm going with. Think about it. Look, I know. I mean, look, I know he's under heat, okay, but you can't tell me, like, if they win 25 games and they get to the Sweet 16, they're going to fire him?

Yeah. I think they will. I think that this year, well, because look, we've been to the sweet 16th. We've won 25 games. I mean, how long, what is the standard of UCLA? Steve Labin five sweet 16s in six years. Then he's fired like a year or two later after the last sweet 16th because he had a dismal year. Now look, UCLA's had one of those dismal years where, you know, we absolutely sunk it up.

Alpert survived. So now this year, great recruiting class, some returners. We're moved past with Jello Ball fiasco in China with Cody Riley, Jalen Hill. Those guys are back. We have a full squad now. I truly think that from a fan perspective, an alumni, in a booster perspective, that the way that they feel is anything short of a final four, it won't be enough for Alfred to survive.

Wow. and for people who follow you, they know, but people who don't. Your son is on scholarship at Oregon. Oregon is a top 10 team. Peyton Pritchard, I think, is going to have, you're like, I don't know if people, some people play fantasy college sports,

college basketball, like Peyton Pritcher is going to put up numbers. He knows that system. He's a really good shooter, a good score. But there's a fascination with Bull Bowl. I saw Bull Bull Bull play in high school before he left to go to Finley with Modern Day. And obviously, because of his dad, because of his length,

because of his ability to basketball. He's fascinating. I didn't think he moved great when I've seen him. And I thought that outside of catching and shooting threes, he wasn't like he was a roll of the rim, throw it up, and dunk on people, as so many of these other big pogo sticks are. You've got a chance, and of course I know your son works with him every day. What's your sense of how good bowl is,

at this point in time his development? Well, at this point in time, I mean, I think that, you know, his potential is unlimited. I think that right now he's, you know, arguably top 10 big in the country. Look, the guy's 7-2s, got a 7-7 wing span. He can shoot it. He moves a lot better now. They're having an understanding. He has an understanding of when to pick and roll.

They're throwing it up there to him now. So he's getting some lobs. He's getting dunk. I think the biggest thing with Bobo is defensively. him just making up his mind that he's going to get five blocks a game. He doesn't play the game like someone that's 72 on the defensive end. He plays more like six. That's weird.

Why do you think? Why is that? Well, because of, you know, Bobo, the way he was brought up offensively, he's worked a lot on the perimeter. So, I mean, you know, he's very comfortable being behind that line. He likes shooting jumpers. He like going between his legs to his back. And I just think that that translates to the defensive. So he's not like, you know, this anchor in the middle that's used to holding down the paint like Alonzo Morning or DeKinebe.

He's more of this, you know, seven-two, seven-foot kind of, you know, wing guy. I don't want to say Jonathan Bender because that would be doing bowl or a disservice. But, you know, it just, he has some tendencies right now. I think that he needs to renew his focus on the defensive end and actually start to make a difference for Oregon, because they're going to need it. Him and Kenny Wooten, the forward from last year. I love Kenny Wooten. I love Keny Wooten.

Pogo Stick, one of the most athletic players in the nation. I mean, that's a hell of a front line. I mean, that's something to deal with. But Bo Bowl right now early on, granted, exhibition game and one game last night against Portland State. He needs to show us, show the country that he can, you know, dominate on the defensive game before, you know, I just throw him into that, you know, oh, man, he's the next coming.

conversation. All right. I got the last thing I want to ask you, because I have a son. He's left-handed. And like your son's journey, I've been able to kind of, I've been able to, you know, follow Will through the trials and tribulations and watching him make it. And look, it's completely different than you. You know, you were a star in high school at Crenshaw.

You guys won state championships. And, of course, your dad was a superstar, was an NBA All-Star, one of the great players in the history of UCLA. What's it like to watch and play? To sit in there and be kind of so proud and yet so powerless to watch him play. I know. The powerless part is what kills you. But again, the pride is what keeps me going.

I'm just tremendously happy for him because this has been his dream. And you know, as a dad, you just want your kids to realize their dream. I never push basketball on him. Actually, he was a baseball player growing up. And we thought that that was the route he was going to go. he decided to pick up basketball and, you know, he's really, really just stuck with it. You know, he was a no-star recruit coming out of high school,

walked on his first year. They gave him some money for a scholarship his second year at Oregon, so actually he's a red shirt's freshman, and it's still a dream to meet, Doug. It's the greatest opportunity that we could have ever asked for. Coach Altman and that staff at Oregon have, you know, the way that they treated him has been amazing. Coach Altman, a former Juco Walk-on,

didn't treat Walk-on. Like, we're used to Walker getting treated, Doug. They get treated like, you know, scholarship players. So that part of it has been amazing. He's up in Eugene with some of the top athletes in the world. So his college experience also has been amazing. And then the basketball part, I couldn't have asked for anything more. Now, granted, I know I would love him to play more,

but I love the fact that he is a part of a top 15 ranked team in the country and that he is someone that's valued by the coaches for the way. he goes about his business and his teammates respecting the love them and that's all you can ask for you know I can't control anything else I can just ask my son William just to do control the things that he can control and he had and it's putting them in a good position

to actually get some playing time this year so we'll see all right well let's do this again really really soon because you're just an unbelievable wealth of knowledge I totally respect not just your basketball like you but the people you know the people you work with and and how you go about yourself appreciate you joining me on the all ball podcast and thanks so much for your time

Thanks. Appreciate you, bro. That's Chris Johnson. KJ., of course, he coaches with The Truth. He coached in the JBA and was a great player during his time. High School, Crenshaw High School. He and Tremaine folks on the same high school team, and then in college at UCLA. And I just am part of that national championship team in 1995.

He was a freshman on that team. And then, of course, later with Steve Laughan going to the Sweet 16. We'll close up all ball with this. It's really early in the basketball season. And I think that sometimes we get caught up in the negativity of the FBI thing. We get caught up in the negativity of a team like the Wizards, who it's just mind-blowing on how disappointing they are, or even the Lakers and why they haven't achieved to this point,

but I think something I thought they would be kind of a lock, playoff team, four, fifth, maybe at worst, six seed, and they're not playing like it. But there have been moments and stories that bring us kind of all together and make it interesting. Next week, we'll do a deeper dive into a couple other college basketball conferences as I've watched Villanova play. I've watched a couple other big 12 teams play, some big East teams in addition to Villanova I've seen play, and I want to peruse around the NBA with some additional guests.

I hope you'll download. Subscribe, rate, and don't be afraid to tell a friend. We're here with you every week. Podcast, as you know, is called All Ball. Just send it to a friend if you like it. And if you want something, you have a question, tweet me at Gottlieb Show. We'll answer the question on next week's pod.

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And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on. some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was finding. You just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.