The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - Celtics bully Kevin Durant & Suns, Mavericks-Thunder reaction + NBA Mailbag

Episode Date: March 16, 2024

Jason Timpf reacts to Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and the Boston Celtics’ dominant 127-112 win over Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and the Phoenix Suns. How concerning is this loss for Phoenix? Later, Jason breaks down Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the Oklahoma City Thunder's 126-119 win over Luka Doncic, Kyrie Irving, and the Dallas Mavericks. Next, Jason answers listener questions during an NBA Mailbag segment including his reaction to Isiah Thomas' comments to Draymond Green about Kevin Durant saving Steph Curry and the Golden State Warriors. Timeline (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements): 04:00 - Introduction 06:50 - Celtics bully Suns 22:48 - Mavericks-Thunder 32:22 - NBA Mailbag #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer,

Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J.

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terms and responsible gaming resources. All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight here at the Volume. Happy Friday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having an incredible week. We got a jam-pack show for you today. We're going to hit the two TNT games from last night. The Phoenix Suns went into Boston and kind of got their butt kicked a little bit,

especially in that third quarter run as the Celtics pulled away and went up by 20. We're going to break down that game from the game from the perspective of both teams. And then after that, the Dallas Mavericks without Luca Donchich and then suffering a couple other injuries along the way went into Oklahoma City and ran into a bit of a buzz sob. But they hang tight on the strength of an incredible Kyrie Irving performance, 36 points and 12 assists on just 18 shots as he kept him close throughout. But the Thunder were able to pull away at the end. So we're going to break down those two games

from the perspective of both teams. After that, I've got four mailbag questions for you guys. We're going to hit a couple about the Isaiah Thomas Draymond Green interview. specifically some of the revisionist history surrounding the 2017-2018 Warriors and what would or would not have happened if KD went there. And then also the perception of Steph Curry as a point guard. So lots of fun stuff for the mailbag as well. You guys have the drill before we get started. Subscribe to our brand of YouTube channel.

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And then lastly, before we get started, you know, this time of year is the time where we get to my favorite type of live sports event to go to, which is a NCAA tournament game. If you've ever been to one, there's nothing quite like it because the sheer level of intensity that you get from single elimination basketball, obviously getting to the phase where we have the best teams in the country on display, but also, when you go to these arenas for an NCAA tournament game, they are wild fan experiences because there's legitimately thousands of fans from both teams in the arena. And there's this crazy back and forth vibe. There are a ton of fun. I really want you guys to get out and check out an NCAA tournament game this year. This is where we're

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Lowest price. Guaranteed. All right. Let's talk some basketball. So this Sun Celtics game, again, we just saw them play a little, what was it, about a week ago in Phoenix. And we got a crazy Kevin Durant performance that kept it close. The first quarter, really for the first quarter and a half or so, kind of felt a little bit like the game in Phoenix. Like there was a lot of shot making from Phoenix. Kevin Durant rode that hot streak into that first quarter, came out red hot. Bradley Biel hit some shots in the first quarter.

They were able to keep it close, but the Celtics talent advantage just started to take over as they got into that tail end of the second quarter. Tatum, who hasn't been shooting super well as of late, kind of got going. He seems to really get invigorated by the individual matchup with KD. It seemed like every time he had an opportunity in ISO

with some space, he was trying to hit KD with dribble combinations and to pull up jump shots and he was hitting him in Phoenix, hit him again here in Boston. He had an incredible game. Dylan Brown got off to a little bit of a rough start, trying to be aggressive in the post, but he really started to get going in that second quarter

attacking Bradley Beale and Devin Booker going to the rim. But I thought the story of the game was Al Horford. And he stepped in with Christop's Porzingis being out. And, you know, again, like when we talk about the suns, we're going to dive a little bit deeper into this. But they're just like all the teams that are after the Denver and Boston tier, they're pretty matchup dependent, right? And so one of the things specifically that Phoenix is good,

in terms of their interior size is like, Nurkich is a big body. And so when he can play a drop coverage and kind of hang out on the basket and when he needs to bang with the other big bodied centers in the league, you know, there's real value there. But when it comes to defending on the perimeter, especially against a team like Boston that picks and pops a lot, that puts them in a predicament where Nurkich can struggle to defend in space.

And so from the opening tip of this game, it became a problem for Phoenix. Started with Horford hitting threes in the first half, a couple of early ones, spacing the floor and in picking pop situations. Then they come out in the third quarter, and Frank Vogel tries to address the problem by putting Devin Booker on Al Horford

and then putting Yusuf Nerkich on Drew Holiday. I'm assuming making it an easier rotation so he can kind of help, and Drew Holiday typically spaces to the corner because he's been such a good corner three-point shooter this year. And so he can maybe take an easier couple of steps out to offer a contest. I'm guessing that was the rationale behind it.

But Horford, you know, he's had experience as an officer. ball guy in the post a lot in the Atlanta Hawks phase of his career, right? Like, he just went to work and did some damage on the offensive glass, got a couple of big offensive rebounds in that third quarter. And then there was a play where he just like deep sealed on Devin Booker early in an offensive possession, created an easy passing angle, got to the foul line. So he just started punishing the smaller players for being switched on him. From there, Vogel ends up pulling the plug on that going back to Nurk at John Orford. And then he just goes

right back to hitting threes. And he just completely lit up Phoenix. And that was the big problem. And there was just nothing that Phoenix could do to overcome it at that point. And then in the third quarter, they started to get hot from three again. Jalen Brown hit a couple. Sam Houser hit a couple. There was another Horford play where he got Devin Booker on his top side and created a passing angle at the foul line. And Jason Tate made a really nice kind of over the top feed. As soon as he caught it, they had no choice. I think it was Royce O'Neill covering Samhouser in the corner. He had no choice but to step over and help. Horford made the extra pass.

Houser was wide open in the corner, knocked it down. Houser got a little bit of rhythm from that, came flying off of a screening action on the right side of the floor and came off and hit a three, broke the game open from there. Went up by 20 and never looked back. It was just an absurd jump shooting game from Boston. They took 25 threes and made 50% of them, so 25 for 50 from the field.

They took 48 jump shots overall. made 70, or excuse me, scored 70 points on the 48 jump shots, 1.46 points per shot, which is completely insane. 25 points on 18 pull-up jumpers, too, so they were deadly on off the dribble jump shots. They converted ISOs at 1.29 points per possession. So like just all their sheer talent stuff shining through in this game, 1.09 points per ISO and post-up combined. they converted spot-up possessions at 1.75 points per possession.

Just a completely ridiculous demonstration of skill from the Boston Celtics in this game. I was on Fox Sports Radio in Phoenix this morning. And one of the, uh, Benjamin, the guy who was hosting the show this morning asked me, he goes like, hey, like, what can the sons do? Like what, what was it that they were unable to match in this particular game from, from Boston? And one of the things I said to him was like, like, there's, two ways to look at it. There's the matchup element.

Like Phoenix is, you know, Boston's kind of a tough matchup for Phoenix. But there's also just the absurdity of Boston ceiling, which is something we've glossed over a lot when we talk about the Celtics in general in terms of the way I see the Celtics discussed around the league. Like, do they have some issues, of course,

just like every team in the league does, right? But like, their issues rear their ugly head rarely. And more often than not, they make the shots they take. They shoot, you know, a cup, 50, something jumpers and convert them at almost a damn near a point and a half per shot and they kick everyone's ass. And that's always on the table as an outcome with this team. And that's why, despite the fact that

I view Denver as the safer bet to win the title, I view Boston on the same tier as them, because you can't count out the idea that potentially they might just out-talent everybody. Like, they have the ability to take 18 pull-up jump shots in a game and make 25, or score 25 points on. Like, they have the ability to just get so damn red-hot that there's nothing. you can do defensively to cover for it. Like that's the thing, especially when it comes to Horford and Porzinger's, when they're hitting the pick and pop threes and the spacing threes, it just completely wrecks any defense.

Because if you're going to have any hope to deal with these rangy wings and guards that they have, you're going to have to have backside help. And if you're going to have backside help, you're typically going to do that from the center position, whether it's in pick and roll or even in just an offball situations. And most teams, you can live with that because they don't have the the plethora of shooting at the center position that Boston has, but Boston just has a ton of shooting at the center position.

Like, again, Porzinger didn't even play tonight, and they torched them with pick and pop basketball. So, like, at the end of the day, like, we're going to talk about Phoenix and the matchup here a little bit more deep, but, like, the reality is, is sometimes with Boston, you just get to lose. Sometimes, like, when, like, Jalen Brown's playing, like, a top 10 player as of late. He's averaging 30 points and six rebounds in his last nine games.

games, 2.83 assist the turnover ratio over that spans. He's taking care of the basketball, making good plays. He just did an unbelievable job on the ball on Devin Booker last night. He's playing legitimately like a superstar over the course of the last few weeks. And you're combining that with Jason Tatum, who's been a top 10 player forever, right? And you're combining that with Derek White and Drew Holiday, these amazing two-way guards. You're combining that with what Al Horford and Khrasop Sporzingas bring at the center position and what Samhouser brings and shooting off the bench.

it is just an absurdity of talent. And when it's clicking on all cylinders, there's literally nothing you can do. All you can do is try to play them into their worst tendencies and pray that they start getting cold and they start to kind of fall apart from there. But again, there's a certain amount of that

that you can't control, just with a sheer amount of talent on the floor. And it's hard enough to guard any team in the NBA when they spread you out, let alone a team that has this kind of talent. As far as the matchup goes for Phoenix, You know, I've talked a lot about this specific concept over the last month since the All-Star Break because we've been diving deeper into the playoff teams and their strengths and weaknesses.

In my opinion, once you get past Boston and Denver, every team beyond that, Minnesota, Milwaukee, the Clippers, the Sons, all those teams, all of them have flaws, right? And they have strengths as well. All those teams have, like, absurd strengths, right? Like, if we talk about the Knicks, it's like they just have a really physically imposing team one through five when they're healthy. right you you're not going to find a more like like like stout physical strong you know bully ball on both ends of the four type of lineup then jalen brunson dante de vincenzo with ogen and oby julius

randall and mitchell robinson when they're healthy right yonnes and dame for the bucks you know the the insane amount of shot creation for the clippers the insane amount of shot creation for the sons all those teams have strengths but they also have weaknesses and what that means is who they play is it going to play a massive factor and who ends up advancing in this playoff run. And that's why we're going to continue to build that concept out, the matchup strengths and weaknesses of both teams as we head into mid-April, because once we get to those first round series and we start doing our series previews,

that's going to be a big thing that helps determine which teams I pick to advance. It's going to have to have a lot to do with matchups. So, for instance, we've talked about teams like Sacramento giving the Lakers issues with perimeter speed. Well, they also struggled with the Nuggets because of their interior side. right. Nicole Yokic can bury Anthony Davis under the rim. Sabonis can bury Anthony Davis under the rim. Well, Nurkich is actually one of the bigger bodied centers in the league. And he can hold up really well against that sort of thing. And so he can actually make the game a little bit tougher

for Yokish than a lot of other centers can. And so in that specific dynamic, and especially this season, because Yokic's jump shot has continued to trend down. He's down to 0.99 points per jump shot. So he's below a point per jump shot this year when he was at one point. point one seven points per jump shot last year. So they're not as much of a pick and pop team as they showed in the postseason last year because Yokic is just one of those guys now where you don't necessarily have to close out as hard on him, at least with the way that he's been shooting as of late. Maybe that changes when we get to the postseason.

So for Phoenix, Nurkich can drop back in ball screens, right? They can put speed on the ball, like whether that's Bradley Beale or Royce O'Neill or Grayson Allen, right? They could dig down off the, on the perimeter because they have the speed and rotation. it's a matchup that works well for Phoenix. By the way, I'd pick Denver to beat Phoenix in a series, but that's why I look at Phoenix as a team that's a legitimate threat to knock off Denver.

It's a good matchup there. Now we go to Boston. Boston is this interesting team because they have a, not only do they have a significantly better arsenal of perimeter defenders to throw at Kevin Durant, Devin, Booker, and Bradley Beal in terms of just the, like Jalen Brown,

Jason Tatum, Derek White, Jeweliday, and just the level of perimeter defense talent compared to KCP and Aaron Gordon who are two really good players in that regard. is going to make an all defense team this year. But there's a certain amount of like, they just have so much more that they have to do and they don't have a continuing options down the roster

to keep throwing at KD and Bradley Biel and Devin Booker, right? So Boston has these perimeter advantages, but also they are a five-out team that plays a lot of pick and pop basketball. And so that makes it so that NERCage is not gaining the advantage of being able to body a bigger center. NERCITCH this year has been capable of scoring in the post against mismatches,

but it also can get ugly too. How many times you see last night, Nurkich try to, you know, bully his way underneath the basket. He just exposes the basketball too much and guys can not get away from him. He tends to either miss shots or turn it over down there quite a bit. So, like, you're not getting as much of the benefits of Nurkich being out there.

And then on the other end of the floor, they can just continually put him in space and put him in picking pop situations and pick them apart from the three point line. And so like that, it's just a tough matchup. they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're going to make the suns make a ton of pull up jump shots against a team that's going to be really good at defending them and and yeah so like that that that specific issue is something I'm going to continue to dive in as we get into the next month but like this is the kind of team that phoenix is going to struggle with

a real pick and pop team okoma city there's another great example like uh one of the things that kind of reared its ugly head in that second half for the sun is a lot of the same stuff that they struggled with all season like they had some turnovers they had five turnovers in the third quarter. Bradley Biel had three. Drew Holiday kept like poking the ball away as dudes were trying to snake and pick and roll. Just with this relentless back pressure and stuff like that. Like the Thunder do that too. The Thunder are our team that's really aggressive on the ball. They're way better at forcing turnovers than Boston is. Boston's actually not all that good at forcing turnovers, right? So like, Oklahoma City is playing passing lanes and being super aggressive.

We've seen what they can do to Phoenix. And same sort of thing with Chad Holmgren as a pick and pop guy and putting Nurkich into a predicament. Now, Nurgich can do a lot of damage on the glass in that matchup, but he struggles defensively. And then obviously it's a bad matchup for the Sun's perimeter players for all the reasons we just talked about. So, like, again, I'm a big believer in Phoenix. I think they have a real chance to get out of the Western Conference.

I would say I was originally on the Clippers in this regard, but they continue to play some relatively mediocre basketball. So, like, I'm kind of on the fence between Phoenix and the Clippers as that number two team in the West behind Denver, but I'm tempted to pick Phoenix. It's just, once again, like all these teams, it's going to come down to their matchups and who they face along the way.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10. 10 pounds. I was having trouble

stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important. important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, moving on to Mavs Thunder. So obviously, the Mavs are down, Luke and Donchich in this game. Dante Exum got hurt in the second half on kind of a gnarly play. Josh Green twisted his ankle at the start of the game. So like, obviously, not a whole lot you can take from the Mavs.

Kyrie did just play a magnificent game as an offensive initiator to keep a minute, 36 points on just 18 shots, 12 assists. The Thunder were throwing everything at him too. In the third quarter, they started just sending straight up double teams when Kyrie was just dribbling 30 feet from the basket and single coverage, not even in a ball screen. They were just sending a double team. They started blitzing him in ball screens, helping hard on his drives.

But it didn't matter because Kyrie's Kyrie and Dee's Incredible, and we'll get a little bit further into that. But that kept the game close. But a monster game from Jaylon Williams on Oklahoma City Thunder side. at 27, excuse me, at 27 points. 13th time the season. He scored at least 25 in a game, had everything going. Several nice driving finishes and scoop shots,

including a nasty one against Daniel Gafford in the fourth quarter. Gafford went straight vertical, got into his body and finished on the side of him. He had his catching shoot three going. Those bump off pull-up jumpers that he hits where he just drives really hard to the right and then like hits you and then squares up in mid-air and hits that like little 12-footer.

Jalen Williams actually is up to 1.14 points per pull-up jump shot and Hardin has gone down a little bit at level. So Jalen Williams is now the best high-volume pull-up shooter in the league this year. How crazy is that? 40 players have attempted at least 250 of them. Jalen Williams is 1.14 points per possession ranks first in that group. But it's even bizarre just watching it on tape because he's a 22-year-old and he's like bodying grown men in the NBA. There's a play where he bodied Dante X-M and took like a little fade away. and like Dante X-M is a pretty big and strong guard

who's like healthy into his career like a grown man in his prime athletically and Jalen Williams just bullied him to get to his spot and then like his competitiveness just screams off the screen he had this block on a one-on-one break with Derek Jones Jr. where he blocked him and just screamed to the crowd. He had a, I missed a three with just under a minute left in the fourth quarter and there was an offensive rebound

and he cut down the lane. Everyone back door just dunked it and screamed to the crowd. And like, that was something that stood out to me when I saw him in Summer League. But like Jalen Williams, to me, the work ethic and the competitiveness combined with the natural gifts that he has, the dude's just going to be a star. And last night was just another little sneak peek of what it's going to be like nightly when we get a couple years further into his career. Josh Giddy, the Dallas was really ignoring him all night on the three point line of coverage.

He's seen a lot this season. But he did hit two huge ones in the second half when he finally found his stroke. She goes to Alexander put in an efficient 31, like, work like he always does. But I want to focus on Oklahoma City's defense. They forced Dallas in 19 turnovers. They scored 34 points on those turnovers. They lead the league in turnover. Turnovers. And this concept we talked about a lot this year, but like they ball pressure and then they have a ton of perimeter speed. So they're really aggressive in passing lanes. Now there's a downside to that. When you get aggressive in passing lanes and you miss the basketball, you can leave

openings. And they do give up a lot of three point shots as a result. They give up 19 wide open threes per game, meaning the defender is at least six feet away. That's the 11th most in the NBA. and they give a 36 three-point attempts total, which is eighth most in the NBA. But the flip side of that is because they're playing the passing lanes and they're so aggressive in their coverages, they just force so many turnovers and they get out in transition so much that more often than not that tradeoff works in their favor.

Like even in Kyrie had a great game, right, 12 assists, but he had four turnovers, and there were a couple ones that he had there in the second half that were just pick sixes. We're like, here comes the blitz, and he just throws some looping pass over the top that has no chance somebody shoots in underneath it sends it out the other way,

running, right? Like, they just, they, they play that tradeoff game. They're going to give up some offensive rebounds. They're going to give up some wide open threes because of their aggression. But the flip side is, is they just get out in transition. That's 36 points off of, 34 points off of turnovers. That's a significant swing in this particular game. Really smart adjustment, too, in the fourth quarter from Mark Dagenal. There was a moment where Jaden Hardy started going and pick and roll. It was really getting downhill and getting to the rim and finishing. There's actually kind of a fun back and forth between J-dub and, and, um,

uh, I've lost my train of thought there for the jaden Hardy, sorry. Uh, there was a fun little back and forth between Jaden Hardy and, uh, Jalen Williams in that early fourth quarter stretch. Dagenal made an adjustment, though. Like again, when you're running pick and roll, it's a man-to-man type of action. And he was getting downhill in it just baked in with the way the coverage was set up. So by going zone, and they run like this like kind of one, two, two matchup zone kind of thing. Matchup zone, meaning like you're in charge of. an area, but when a guy comes into your area, you guard him like he's man to man.

Then when he leaves your area, you pass him off, basically, right? But by doing that, it essentially shut down that pick and roll action and cool Jaden Hardyoff, and they were able to kind of regain control the game. Just a really good win for Oklahoma City against the team. Again, like Kyrie Irving, with all those guys out, it'd be one thing to take them lightly and to go light into that game, but Kyrie threw a great punch. There was a lot of good for Dallas in this game, which we're going to get to in a minute, and they overcame it, they got a big win.

On the Mavs front. Not too much to take away other than it just feels like injuries are stacking up again, which is really unfortunate. Obviously, Lucas hamstring, Josh Green turned his ankle, Dante Exum took a shot in the second half. Always going to be hard to win a road game against a really good team when you're down that many guys. But there are four silver linings that I want to hit for Dallas. One, Kyrie Irving is just incredible. This is a reminder of why you make this trade last year.

And it's why I looked at it so much as this year being the year for Dallas to be a threat because they actually had the time to surround them with the necessary pieces that they need. But Kyrie's just demonstrating that like when it comes to that skill guard role, the ability to score and the ability to play make out of ball screens and to just run an offense, he's still one of the top 15, 20 guys in the league that can do that. And it's just a rare asset to have on your team. Tim Hardaway Jr. He had been in a shooting slump.

He got his three-point shot going. That's encouraging. Talked about Jaden Hardy's rim pressure in the fourth quarter. I thought that was a really nice mix-up for them and something that I think is encouraging in the big picture because obviously like that downhill speed is something that Luca and Kyrie don't bring a ton. And so Jaden Hardy, I thought that was an impressive stretch from him. And then lastly, Derek lively, there's play. So you guys might remember it.

It was kind of a broken play, transition play for Oklahoma City. I think Shay or somebody tried to throw a skip ahead pass and Maxie Kleve would jump up and knocked it with his hand. So it's kind of like a transition chaos possession. And on the play, Derek lively ended up Kisson Wallace on him. So they run a quick ball screen with Kyrie. and Kaysan Wallace shows high and Chet, or excuse me, Derek Lively slips. And when Derek Lively slips, Kyrie hits him over the top. But Chet is the low man in this possession.

And he comes over and he meets Derek Lively, right? So Lively's got the ball, deep post position, but he's got a player right behind him. And he just patiently worked into a drop step, a drop step hook over his left shoulder with his right hand and he knocked it down. And I was like, I remember if you guys remember, I was talking about how I think Derek Lively has the potential to be kind of like a Tyson Chandler. and one of the things that I think can help him really raise his impact overall at the center position is just being able to make a quick left shoulder right-handed hook over a switch, let alone against another center when you have that deeper position. He's up to 16 for 30 on hook shots this year.

That's 53% for a rookie. That's pretty impressive. I'll be at low volume. And he does have the touch and the patience there, which I think is super encouraging. So again, tough one for the Mavs. Not too much to take away from it considering the circumstances, but some silver linings there for you guys. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember

when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush

got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense

of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's move on to our mailbag.

We have four questions today. I have them on my phone today. First one, offensively, what does Jonathan Camilla need to work on in the off season besides ball handling and three-point shooting to become a legit number two option? So again, to become a legit number two option offensively, it's a lot more complicated than just one specific skill. right? Like ball handling and shooting are vague concepts too. Like shooting could mean just catch and shoot shooting. Shooting could mean movement shooting. Shooting can mean off the dribble shooting, right? Ball handling. That could mean attacking closeouts. That could mean working in ISO and post-up situations. They could also mean running ball screens, right? A big one too for Golden State, which is an important part of this discussion. We got into this in the mailbag yesterday, but just the difference in the different kinds of offenses, right? So like the kinds of skills you need. need in a four out one in offense versus from a role player versus the kinds of skills you need in a five out offense, right? And just all the players on the perimeter. So in a five out

offense, specifically the way Golden State plays, read and react is a huge part of the skill development. What that means is like the ability to quickly interpret what's happening in front of you and make these decisions. So it's kind of like option routes in the NFL. So like if you remember in the NFL like you might have a guy that like reads the linebacker out of the tight end spot. And if the linebackers here, he quick turns for a hitch. If the linebackers there, he might run a five yard out instead, right? Like these, these are read and react plays for the tight end where he's coming off the line, reading what the linebackers doing and then making a decision. It's the same kind of thing in five out basketball. Like you're setting up for this

screening action, but it's very read and react in the sense that like if your guys top locking you, you back door. If you're guys trailing, you want to curl, right? Like if your guys ducking under the pick, you want to flare. Like there's all these different things. that you're reading, especially in three-man actions, you might change your mind on who's coming out of the screen, right? Or you might slip out of it entirely. There's so many different things that you do read and react basketball in five-out basketball. And so some of that is not even skill development.

It's just reps. And like Jonathan Camingo just needs lots and lots of reps playing alongside Steph in this five-out system to just kind of learn how to be better at reading and reacting. But like if I had to put it simply, to be a legitimate second-side creator or I should say a second option, on a championship team, you have to be truly transcendently great at something. Now, to me, for Jonathan Kaminga, that's going to be an ISO-post thing. His best skill right now is he is so freaky athletic at his size

that most of the players that are big enough to handle him are too slow and that are fast enough to handle them are too small, right? And so he can get defenders out of position, he can draw fouls, he can get baskets. He's a good on an island score. There's real value there. Now to push it to the elite level where he needs to get, he needs to be a great playmaker in those situations.

So again, the ability to read the floor, identify where the help is coming from. A lot of teams bring late help on Kaminga after he puts the ball on the floor. But once he can read those things, he can be a truly elite isolation and post-up player because you can run that action 10-15, or like, you know, five-10 times a game. And in those five-10 possessions,

you're going to get consistent great production regardless of the coverage that he faces, right? But in addition to that, he also has to be able to play in the flow of the offense. That's one of the big things for Kaminga right now is he's good on an island, not so great in the flow. And so that's going to be where his areas of improvement are. From there, it's going to be about like ball handling,

specifically ball handling in traffic, ball handling in ball screens. So being able to, oh, what that means is like, let's say he brings his man up the floor, but he's got a good perimeter defender on it. Before he comes off a ball screen, he needs to set him up, meaning like he needs to make a move to one side of the screen

and then do a retreat dribble to get the defender into a trailing position on that side before he goes and uses the ball screen. That's an intricate part of ball handling that I'll have to figure out, right? Then once he's coming off the screen, making those reads, okay, the defender's in a deep drop. I want to get ahead of steam going to the basket, okay? Oh, the defender's a little bit higher and the on ball guy is trailing behind me. I need to use my size to put the defender in jail, keep him trapped behind me,

start working slowly down the floor until something develops in front of me. and the developing part, that's making the reads. Reading the low man, okay, I brought the screen defender up, which means the guy in the dunker spots open, hit him. Or I brought the screen defender up, and they rotated out of the corner, I got to make the skip pass, right? All these reads that he has to get used to making, those are reads that if he wants to be in the five out,

coming off of those DHOs and coming off of those impromptu ball screens, that he's going to have to get better at, right? But again, to me, to be the legit number two, he needs to be the best possible version of the ISO post-up player that he is, which primarily is a play-a-play-making thing at this point. And then to be able to function normally in their five-out offense so that he can maintain his impact when he's not being super aggressive on the ball.

And then from there, just, you know, making the defensive improvements that we know he needs to, right? Like he's a good on-ball guy right now, but he can be a little unfocused off-ball. So, like, there's lots of areas of improvement for a player this young, but to become a legit number two, that's just kind of a little breakdown of what he needs to do offensively. All right, next question.

Cavs fan here. I obviously know there's a defined second round ceiling with them. Assuming this happens, what do you think they should do this offseason? Personally, I think making Mobley bulk up and move to the five and replacing Allen with a wing who can shoot and move his feet is a good start. So one of the things, I really find this interesting because it actually falls very similarly to some of the issues that I've been dealing with as a Lakers fan, right?

So Evan Mobley is in this awkward position right now where like, To play the four, he needs to make a significant improvement offensively, right? Just in terms of his skill, ball handling, shooting, all that stuff. But to play the five, he might have some issues in terms of this overall physical bulk, right? Even if he puts on muscle, he might run into similar issues to Anthony Davis. Now, Anthony Davis, when he was at the four and had some success with the Lakers in the 2020 and 2021 seasons, he was a much better offensive skill player, right? A guy you could throw the ball too on the block

and he was going to ISO score and hit a bunch of jump shots and all this kind of stuff, right? Then what happened was, is he had an offensive decline. And as that offensive decline happened in 2021, 2021, 2022, all of a sudden it became untenable to run Anthony Davis next to a five. Because if you ran him next to a five,

you were physically imposing, but you didn't have the skill you needed at the four spot to make it work, right? That was the issue they'd have because you'd have like AD who can't shoot next to some other center who couldn't shoot, right? And like even when they did have a center who could shoot a guy like a, you know, guys like Thomas Bryant briefly there with the Russell Westbrook team or like a Marcusall. They weren't teams that, like there weren't guys that teams were like really guarding out there, right? And so the issue is if you're going to play Evan Mobley at the four, you're going to deal much better physically with teams

because Mobley at the four next to a legitimate center like Jared Allen, you're going to be really physically imposing. at times, although they did get a little bit overwhelmed by the Knicks last year. But that only works if Evan Mowbly makes the strides offensively. What ended up killing them wasn't just the physical stuff that they dealt with with Mitchell Robinson, but their inability to score and pick and roll because of Jared Allen and Evan Mowgli operating in the short roll and out of the dunker spot. They just couldn't score effectively out of there. I want to say Evan Mowley was like 0 for 10 shooting out of the role last year in that

Nick series, right? So like offensive skill is a prerequisite it to play the four now. But if you play the five, you're going to run into a lot of issues in terms of his overall physical books, a bulk, right? So that's really the turning point for the Cavs is like, is Evan Mobley going to develop offensively? Or is he the next Anthony Davis, the guy that like has offensive moments, but for whatever reason just never develops in terms of his skill set the way that he needs to. And that's up to Evan for the record. Like I mean, I even feel like with Anthony Davis, like from what I've heard behind the, the scenes, like the dude just out of the season just takes like two straight months off.

And like, that's one of those things where like skill development in particular is literally a lifestyle. Skill development is a 12 month thing. And so like it is a lot. It is something that like Evan Mobley would have to commit to and really spend the time to make those improvements to be good enough from an offensive standpoint at the four. If not, if you slide him to the five, then your four has to be super physically imposing. You're going to need somebody of Aaron Gordon's ilk at the four to put next to Evan Mobley because of his size limitations, right? That's what makes the LeBron AD frontline still functional defensively against most matchups, albeit he's had his issues against those big body centers like we've talked about.

But it's LeBron James. He's a really big center. And so when LeBron is really engaged defensively, the two of them make for a really physically imposing four or five. So like that's the way I look at it. The crossroads is Evan Mobley's offensive development. If he becomes a gifted offensive player, you keep him at the four. if he doesn't, you have to put him at the five and you have to put some sort of big-bodied

four next to it. All right, next one. We have two questions and then we're done. Now, Jason, we need you to address Zeke disrespecting Steph Curry on Dremont's pod. Love the show, by the way. Thank you for supporting the show. So there's two things that I wanted to hit from the Dremont-Intyrene, Isaiah Thomas interview. First, the idea that like Kevin Durant saved them when he went in 2017. Here's the thing. Do I think if Kevin Durant did not, signed with the Warriors in the summer of 2017 that the Warriors still repeat and win back-to-back titles in 2017-2018?

No, I don't think they repeat. But they were still one of the very best teams in the league. They would have been every bit as likely to win the title as the Cavs in 2017. My best guess is that if you play that same setup again without Kevin Durant going to the Warriors, the Cavs split it.

they probably get one more, and the Warriors probably get one more in the 2017-2018 stretch. So like, yeah, Kevin Durant put them over the top to being completely unbeatable and they won two titles, but that doesn't mean that that Warriors team wasn't good. That's ridiculous. They won 73 games the year before. It required absolute heroic basketball from Kyrie Irving and LeBron James to barely squeak out a seven-game win in Golden State in 2016. So like pretending as though they weren't a championship contender without, without KD, that's just something I completely disagree with. Like, Katie doesn't sign with Golden State, goes somewhere else.

The Warriors win one of those two titles in 2017 or 2018, in my opinion. That's just how good they were. So like I don't really buy into that revisionist history. Like even when we evaluate Steph, like no KD, I still think we look at him as a three-time champion and probably a two-time finals MVP and should have been a three-time finals MVP. So like I don't really buy into that line of thinking. On the point guard front, this is something that I find incredibly silly because everyone wants to associate point guard with one specific style of play, which is like the guy who brings the ball up the floor and makes all the decisions. But like that is really a dying breed these days. You don't really see that very much in the NBA in general.

As a matter of fact, the guys who bring the ball up the floor and make all the decisions now are the James, James Harden in 2020, 2021, or 2018, 2019, I mean, kind of stretch. And then it's like Luca Donchitz and like Trey Young. And it's like, that's not even like a positional thing. That's like a heliocentric play style kind of thing. The truth of the matter is is like the positions in the NBA more have to do with who you can guard, right?

Like, can you guard a guard? Can you guard a 6-5-2 guard? Can you guard a lanky wing who scores on the perimeter like a paulmonary? George. Can you guard a power wing like an Aaron Gordon or LeBron James or Rui Hatchamur or whatever in the front court? Can you guard a big bodied center? Can you guard a skinny, skilled center? Those are the positions. But like saying Steph Curry's not a point guard is not fair because there's like not that many point guards in the NBA by the traditional mold like what Isaiah Thomas was anyway. And by the way, just go back and look at why that position archetype was a thing.

Back then, the vast majority of forwards couldn't dribble. And most hubs were centers and forwards. So you needed a ball handling point guard that could bring the ball up against pressure and make a post-entry pass. Or if it's a wing score, if they run an action to get that wing score position somewhere on the floor, you needed the point guard to get the ball to hit. Nowadays, the level of ball handling that we get down the roster, including at the forward position, is so insane that you no longer need a point.

guard to make a post-entry pass. And so as a result of that, like, that point guard position is actually better to have like a guy who can run pick and roll and score, right? Or do more high-level playmaking. But like the high-level playmaking at a pick-and-roll piece, we literally see every position do that, including centers now. We see Janice and Nicole Yokic running inverted pick-and-roll all the time now. So like, to me, that conversation is completely pointless.

The bottom line is at Steph's archetype, which is like your, primary offensive hub guard, which is more or less what the point guard is now in the modern NBA, he's been the best at it in this era. No one's done it better at the guard position. So like the fact that he's off ball more than most players is irrelevant to me. And by the way, if you ran a spread, pick and roll four out one in system and you just spanned ball screens with Steph like Trey Young, he would just be a better version of Trey Young. Steph can do that too. If you let Steph play the way that Trey Young plays,

he'd average 35 and 12th. But the Warriors wouldn't be as good. Steph embraces five-out off-ball basketball the way he does because it makes the Warriors a better team. It makes them more versatile. And then what ends up happening is when push comes to shove, what does he do? He runs pick and roll.

When the Warriors pushed the Lakers to six games last year, they were the lesser team. and a lot of guys who weren't playing as well as they did last year. And so everything fell on Steph. Lakers were playing the best basketball they played since they won in the bubble. And they were playing incredible defensive basketball. And the only reason the Warriors had any chance to win that series was Steph with the ball in his hands,

barbecuing them in pick and roll. I rewatched every game in that series over the summer. And like it was appalling going back just how helpless the Lakers were dealing with him in pick and roll. That's all point guard, bring the ball at the floor and make decision stuff. He can do that. He chooses to play in this five-out system off ball because it makes the Warriors more versatile.

If they can run that 30 minutes in a playoff game and he only has to spam ball screens for the other 15 minutes, it gives him a better chance of holding up physically. It gives him a better chance of not being repetitive and easy to guard. So, like, yeah, I disagree vehemently with both of those opinions from Isaiah Thomas from that interview. Last question. In your opinion, how do you think teams adjusting to playoff pressure will affect their play?

And what major teams do you think will be playoff risers or chokers, whether due to game plan or roster assembly? Do you think of any playoff chokers that can overcome their weaknesses in an extended series? So I'm not going to get into specific teams and players in this particular part just because it's a mailbag. We will get into that when we get into our playoff previews in early April. But the main kind of theme behind it is, in my opinion, experience. grants tends to be more resilient in the playoffs. Strength and the ability to hold up under physicality tends to be more resilient in the playoffs.

Teams that score a lot in the paint, that's resilient in the playoffs. And then a diversity of shot creation. What that means is if your team that relies solely on ball screens to run your offense, you're going to run into issues. Look at the Cavs last year. The only way they could score was through Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell ball screens.

And when they had issues scoring, out of the role, their entire offense fell apart. Right? But when you have versatility, right? Like, that's the thing. Like, the Knicks, like, Jalen Brunson just is an incredible mismatch attacking switch ISO guy, right? Julius Randall, in theory, when he's healthy, can do that kind of thing. Right. So, like, if you have a versatility in your shot creation, if you have the ability to be like, hey, this isn't working, let's try this instead. That to me is something that makes a team more resilient when we get in the postseason. We will, when we get to

where playoff previews, talk about which teams and players I expect to play better and worse when we get to that point. I just didn't want to hit it in today's mailbag. All right, guys, that's all we have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys supporting the show. I had a scheduling conflict, so we're no longer going live after Lakers Warriors tomorrow night, but I will be breaking that game down on Sunday morning. Probably going to hit Knicks Kings as well on Sunday morning, so keep an eye on the feeds. I will see you guys then. The volume. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfields of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I. I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.