The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - How Haliburton, McConnell & Mathurin ENERGIZED Pacers in NBA Finals Game 3 win vs. SGA & Thunder

Episode Date: June 13, 2025

Jason reacts to Game 3 of the NBA Finals between the Indiana Pacers and Oklahoma City Thunder, explaining how Tyrese Haliburton changed his game, plus how T.J. McConnell and Bennedict Mathurin were able to make such big contributions vs. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and company.  #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hope all of you guys are having a great week. Well, we went with Collie Coward last night. I wanted to take the time today to kind of dig a little bit further into the X's and O's and talk about some of the stuff that I learned from watching some more film this morning. As you guys, those of you guys who followed us over to playback, we rewatched the fourth quarter last night.

I dug into some other portions of the game a little deeper, specifically the run in the early second quarter as well. I wanted to dive into just how the Pacers pulled off that big win last night. And then after that, looking forward in the series, what we can expect as we move forward for both of these teams now that we only have a few games left in the matchup. You guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more of our videos.

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So show up for the live show and then just drop your questions in the chat. And then we hit them in the mailbag at the tail end. We will definitely be doing a mailbag at the tail end of tomorrow night's show. All right, let's talk some basketball. So before we actually move into it, I figured this would be the perfect time for our Microsoft course correction segment because we had two guys last night in T. Jim McConnell and Ben Matherin that I think just deserve a special spotlight for the work that they did off the bench in these specific runs that I think won the game for the Pacer. So welcome to course correction brought to you by Microsoft.

Just like star players and teams navigating performance hurdles, business decision makers today are under immense pressure to get things right. They must rise to the occasion turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft empowers these visionaries with AI solutions, simplified cloud and data management, and trustworthy, responsible AI. When you're in the NBA, you have your own hurdles to face. In this segment, we will highlight the player every week that has risen to the occasion when his team needed him. Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say, bring it on. This week's players of the week are T.J. McConnell and Ben Matherin, University of Arizona alums. For those of you guys who forget, I'm from Tucson, Arizona.

Still currently live there. Big Arizona fan here. I used to be a bigger fan of the U of A before, excuse me, bigger fan of college basketball in general before I started working in this business. I was lamenting that to a buddy of mine at the gym the other day. Like, ever since I got into the NBA and it's become my profession, I have had way less time to watch college hoops, which has been something that's made me a little sad. Maybe I'll be able to find some more balance with that over the years. But I grew up, you know, as I was growing up, the U of A was the team that I rooted for. It was, you know, if you asked me who my favorite team was, it wasn't any NBA team.

Like the Sons didn't do a great job marketing down to Tucson, even though we were an hour and a half down the road. It was the University of Arizona. That was what we rooted for. It's a huge cultural thing here, just like it is in any other college town. For those of you guys who live in college towns, you know what it's like. And I was lucky to get to play with a lot of these guys that came through the system. T.J. McConnell has always been one of my favorite players.

I've told this story on the show before. it's been a very long time. But TJ and I, I played pickup with and against him at various points at the U of A. And my first time meeting TJ in person, I was this young, just asshole, for lack of a better word. And I was playing in a game against TJ and some U of A guys. And I was bringing this like crazy competitive energy to the game because I was like

viewing it as an opportunity to try to like test myself, you know, that, that sort of thing. And I was just being a dumb young basketball player. But I vividly remember in that environment, a lot of the guys kind of playing the too cool for school, like whatever, we're just out here messing around kind of thing. And there was one guy on the other team that had no desire to approach things that way and that wanted to win that game at all costs. And I saw the competitive fire in TJ's eyes in that game when we were playing against each other. And he was talking shit to me and all that kind of stuff totally was like an exposure to the fact that like TJ is one of the apex competitors that you'll meet. He is a guy that, um, that regard,

I always have thought that a guy who approaches a random pickup game with an insane amount of competitive energy, even though he is a pro, even though he is a guy that has played at in the college level, at the overseas level, in the NBA level. Like that to me is an indicator of a guy that has a competitive motor that is there regardless of surrounding circumstances. And I just remember, like, I remember being struck by TJ the first time I met him just by how intense he was. And I do think that that has been a huge driving force behind what has made him a 10-year NBA pro and has just been one of my favorite players to root for over the years. But I've been fortunate to see a bunch of U of U of A guys come through Tucson.

and it was obviously a lot of fun last night to watch TJ and Ben to U of A alums put a huge mark on an NBA finals game. The Pacers basically won that game with two runs. There was a 25 to 10 run in the early second quarter that took them from down eight to up seven. And then there was a 23 to 11 run in the early fourth quarter that put them from down five to up seven. and those were really the stretches that swung this game back towards in the early second quarter run was mostly t.J mccannell again we've talked about this a lot in the series preview but he has one of like tj is actually one of the better athletes in the league when it comes to getting straight line speed and changing direction at straight line speed he can bring the ball at the floor with pace and he just kind of sets it up for a

strong right-hand drive and he counters it with a right-to-left crossover and then he spins when he gets cut off and he just brings a lot of downhill power in those drives and it just makes them very, very difficult to guard and like there were a lot of plays like, uh, there was one where he dropped off the ball to Pascal Seaccom for an easy layup during that run where he just was staring down Kaysen Wallace like head to head and just got into the lane. And that, that ultimately is the thing that breaks down any defense is the ability to beat your primary defender and to draw in help. And on this play. He beat Kaysen Wallace and Drew and Alex Caruso, which opened up a little drop off to Pascal

Seacom and he got an easy layup. And there were a lot of opportunities for guys. Like he had a big transition drive where he drew a foul. He had another drive out of a, out of pick and roll where he beat Kaysen Wallace towards the baseline. He just was consistently getting past his man, which was making all of these positive trickle down effects. And guys were getting open on cuts. I talked about Siakum. Ben Mathuron got open on a cut. Obie Topin got open running his lane in transition.

on the left side of the floor. That was when TJ got one of his inbound steals. If you remember, he stole the inbound pass immediately after scoring. Like, TJ was just all over the place in that early second quarter run and brought the life back into the arena after Oklahoma City threw a hell of a punch in the first quarter and left Indiana, just a tiny bit shook at that point. But T.J. dug him out of it and got him back into the game. And then on the other end of the floor, J. Dub took and missed a couple of tough mid-range pull-ups,

the two-man game with Hartnstein and Chet, that was a too big look for the thunder that didn't work in this game. Again, I talked about that after game one. Like, I don't really, the different looks that Oklahoma City has are more or less irrelevant to me because each one of them can succeed. It's just, are they going to do the job or are they not? And this was an example where the two-big look didn't work. They switched the two-man game at the top of the key and forced Chet and do a tough fadeaway that he missed. It was just in general, a cold spell for Oklahoma City. Indiana jumped and took the lead there. And then in the early fourth quarter,

it was Ben Matherin. Again, a 23 to 11 run that took them from down five to put him up seven. Ben Matherin, we talked about him before the series is another one of those guys that has that size and athleticism to get to his spots against this Oklahoma City defense. I talked about this a little bit last night

with Colin and we talked about it on playback. But if you look at knee Smith, knee Smith is a very good athlete, but he doesn't handle the ball like T.J. or Ben, not close. right. And Nemhart is a great ball handler, but he's not, not anywhere near the athlete that T.J. McConnell and Ben are. And so T.J. and Ben bring that combination of like kind of apex athletic traits and also the ability to handle the basketball that brings a real problem for Oklahoma City

to be able to handle. And like, I know T.J. doesn't really have the reputation of being that type of athlete. I think he is. I think he's very big and strong and is a very straight line speed guy that can change direction. I think that's an elite athletic trade. And that is what is allowed those guys to be successful against a very, very good perimeter defense from Oklahoma City. But we discussed Ben before the series as a guy that could be a real scoring boost for this Pacer's team. And he got a bunch of buckets in that early fourth quarter stretch. He drove into J. Dub's chest and spun off of him and got an and one floater. He had this ridiculous shot in drop coverage where he like softly fed a left-handed layup up off the glass.

That was just a remarkable. of shot making. That's a shot that the vast majority of even NBA players are going to overcook off the glass and probably end up missing in Ben Mather and made it. He had a pull-up three versus drop coverage along the right side of the floor. He had several pull-up jump shots in the game. And if you watch him, he just gets such

great lip. And that's really the thing for him. Like, if he can just get to his spot and rise up, these Thunder players literally aren't big enough to really get a great contest on him there. And he was able to get some really good pull-up jump shot looks. in this game. And then T.J. had another stretch in that run where he had a driving layup where he ran like kind of a decoy ball screen on the left side and got Kaysen to think he was going to switch. Instead, he just hit the Jets with one of those right-handed drives and got a layup, immediately stole the

inbound's pass and got another layup. Like those guys were just massive in this game. 10 points, five assists and five steals for T.J. McConnell, 27 points in an NBA finals game on just 12 shots. for Ben Mather and just huge NBA finals moments for those two guys. And if they win the title, obviously, as a local Tucson guys and Arizona guy, it will be a game that I look back on very fondly. That's it for this week's course correction. Remember, Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to help drive your business forward.

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It's worth mentioning that in the fourth quarter, that during that run their defense was incredible as well. The big thing that really started to have some effect was just overall ball denials. There was a possession where Nemard had a quality denial of, of Shea on a sideline out of bounds where he was trying to get a post up. And because they didn't throw it to him and ended up getting worked around to J. Dub for a miss, there were multiple plays where guys like got denied and they tried to back cut out of the denial. and then Hartnstein or someone else

like threw a pass on a back door cut to try to get them open against the denial that led into turnover. So like lots and lots of success from ball denials, lots and lots of success from just overall ball pressure. We're going to talk about it in a minute, but I thought Oklahoma City really looked fatigued down the stretch. Defense was a huge element of those fourth quarter runs as well.

Now down the stretch, once again in classic Pacers fashion, a little bit of everybody, right? Tyrese Halliburton, who all night long, and started just taking, I thought he came out the first couple minutes a little passive, but hit the jets there in the middle of that first quarter and just did a great job all night of just taking the conceded coverage beating looks that he wasn't taking for the first three quarters of game two. It's not on every possession. Sometimes they beat him over the top of the screen. He wasn't able to get some clean looks, but all throughout this series, again, in the drop coverage,

he's had mildly contested pull-up jump shots coming off of ball screens and mildly contested floaters going downhill in ball screens all against variations of drop coverage. Those shots have been there for him, and he just didn't take them for the first three quarters of game two. Did a much better job tonight of taking him, and he was making them tonight. So not only was he keeping himself in a rhythm, but he was actually providing some real scoring pop for his team. But in the fourth quarter, hit a huge three at the top of the key that broke a tie that put them up by three late in the game. He had a beautiful skip pass and pick and roll that led to an Aaron Neesmith three in the right corner. or knee Smith had a couple of massive threes in the second half of this game despite having

you're, I talk all the time about just find a way to make a play when you're having a rough night and knee Smith was getting hooked by J. Dub in ISO and in ball screens all night long. He was missing shots. It was like a really rough knee Smith game and he just hit a couple of huge threes late and he got a couple of big stops on J. Dub late and who the hell cares what happened before that Pacers got the win, right? But really nice skip pass from Halliburton there. I thought he actually missed another one that could have gotten to the Seacum three in the left corner where he forced the ball to Turner instead. But Halliburton did a really nice job down the stretch. Nemhard hit two huge jumpers. There was a play where T.J. McConnell just straight up broke off

SGA on an ISO, but he smoked the layup on the tap, the tap out that happened after. Nemhard hit a pretty tough little mid-range jump shot over Chet. He had another one in drop coverage. That was a big shot in crunch time. Miles Turner, after having a brutally bad game for three quarters just getting absolutely fried in his at-the-level coverage and missing shots all over the floor. He bullied Chet on a pocket pass where he caught the ball and just got downhill and then just bumped Chet off and Chet went flying and he got a little easy layup. He blocked Chet three times in the fourth quarter twice at the rim in another play at the three-point line. Once again, rough game for Miles for three quarters. Just find a way to make a play. Now we will remember game

three as a game where Miles Turner made huge plays and helped his team win and no one's going to care about what happened in the first three quarters. It's such a, these were so classic examples of like for you young basketball players out there, no matter what happens in the first quarter, no matter what happens in the second quarter, no matter what happens in the third, no matter what happens in the first half of the fourth quarter. Like just find a way to make a play and do something to put your team in position to win and no one's going to give a shit about what happened during the remainder of that game. Obie Topping, a huge, sequence, a two-way sequence where he had a tip dunk and then got a block on the other end.

Tyrese was running a guard guard screen on the left side of the floor. He rejected the screen and got great dribble penetration. And when you get great dribble penetration, trickle-down effects, right? Lou Doord has to step over off of the weak side corner in low man help. Alex Caruso, who's guarding Toppin, has to drop an account for the corner that opens up a runway for Obie Topin to just shoot down that right-wing lane line and he just gets up and throws down a massive two-handed dunk. they go down to the other end. Down the stretch, the Pacers were way,

way better with their at the level coverages with their forwards. The at the level coverage with Turner doesn't work. It's causing all sorts of problems. We're going to talk about that in a minute. But with Siakam and Topin, in particular, they got multiple stops on switches in actions that looked to attack them with either J-Dubb or Shea.

And the big part of it was, one of the problems they were having in those hedges or in those switches with those forwards is one, either the on-ball guy would lose, contain and Shea or J-Deb would just reject the screen, at which case it would be an automatic four-on-three, or they would go off the screen and then just immediately split-topping or split Seacom and get right downhill, and suddenly it would be another four-on-three. Those four-on-three have been a major issue for Indiana's defense over the course of the last two games. But in the

fourth quarter, one of the things they were doing, the on-ball guy was more strongly overplaying towards the screen to make it so that Shea or J-Dub could not reject the screen. almost like an ice coverage where you're like forcing him to go a certain way except for instead of in an ice coverage you force the guard to go away from the screen in this case they were overplaying him to the screen and then the guy Siakum or Toppin weren't getting split

Topin was meeting him a little further back Seacom's same thing using his length to contest after the tip dunk Topin switched on to Jdub slid his feet kept his chest in front of that shoulder met Jdub at the rim and swatted his ass huge play down the stretch of that game. And then their defense, we talked a little bit about it earlier. But after really struggling to guard Oklahoma City for basically seven quarters in a row, they got the stops they needed in that fourth quarter. Again, Seacum and Topping in those

switches. Seacum locked up SGA and ISO twice once got him to pass out of a little step back three attempt. Another one where he contested a really, like a really nice contested ISO, like 18 footer off of the left elbow where he got to stop. He also had a really sharp close out on Caruso on a play where he had a foot in the paint. Passed went out to Caruso. Caruso looked open. We talked about this in the Nick series too, but Seacum has been really good with his like helping recover closeouts on the weak side. He got a really good close out on Caruso that forced him to pass out of what looked like in Open 3. They started to snuff out specific actions. We talked earlier about

they're at the level coverages with their forwards. We won't go any further into that. But they finally got to stop on that SGA backscreen action. We talked about this in game in game one. They had Shea back screen for Kaysen Wallace. Case and Wallace got a wide open layup because Nemhard didn't want to help off of SGA on screens. They ran it again early in the fourth quarter tonight for Chet. SGA screen for him.

Nemhard didn't want to help. Chet got an easy layup out of it. They ran it again in crunch time and finally the Pacers snuffed it out. Nemhard slid over and showed while it was one of the bigs. I think it was Siakum. It might have been Turner. I think it was Turner, actually. Turner lingered for just a second on Shea, while Nemhard lingered for just a second showing on the Chet back cut,

and then they recovered to each other's man, shut down the action. Again, that's what happens in these playoff series. As things progress, you see things enough times. You start to kind of snuff out the actions. You know what you're looking for, what you're waiting for, and it all of a sudden becomes a little bit more about getting one-on-one buckets or where you can create an advantage because the action, because the actions aren't working as well.

And then in general, ball pressure and fatigue. You'll notice I've been pretty critical of the Turner at the level coverages, especially in this series, but I haven't been too worried about the ball pressure. There's been some downsides where they've given up dribble penetration, but the big difference between this team and Jaden McDaniels is when Jada McDaniels is when Jada McDaniels would get beat, he's not as quick-footed to get back into the play.

Neesmith, Nemhard, T.J., these guys are so quick-footed that even when they give up dribble penetration in their ball pressure, they can pressure from behind and rush the ball handler into making mistakes. I'm advocating with Turner for a deeper drop coverage. We'll talk about that when we get a little bit later into the show. But those, that is a specific issue that they were having with Minnesota was having where Shea would beat ball pressure and then he was just getting wherever he wanted on the floor. For the most part, Indie's been able to like actually cause some issues with their dribble drive guys into rushing into making mistakes and turning the basketball over.

and there's a huge fatigue element to ball pressure and denials. And I thought Oklahoma City looked tired down the stretch. Shea in particular, hands on knees, not fighting for loose balls. Like Shea looked really tired down the stretch of this game. And that is a cumulative wear and tear effect that comes from that ball pressure. But once again, for the Pacers, everybody made plays. And that continues to be the story for this Pacer's team. They have seven guys averaging double figures for them in this series.

Nobody's averaging 20, but seven dudes are averaging at least 10. Juxtaposed with a Thunder team that has two dudes averaging 20 and five dudes total averaging 10. They are just a, they are just a cumulative force of nature. On any given night, it's somebody different doing something different, but they're just a remarkably balanced basketball team. They as a team forced a bunch of turnovers, blocked a bunch of shots. They continue to be one of my favorite playoff teams that I've ever watched. I actually thought it was funny.

I saw a comment from you from you guys after last night's show where there are a lot of Pacers fans that think that like I want the Thunder to win. That's not true. Like I think the Thunder are going to win. I pick them to win the series because you'd be foolish not to given what we knew about the two teams coming in. But like I find the Pacers to be a more likable basketball team than the Thunder. I find the Pacers to be a funner team to watch than the Thunder. than the thunder. Me and my basketball pick is not the same as what my basketball heart believes, so to speak. And I will flatly say that the Pacers are one of my favorite teams that I've ever watched.

And I'll just freely admit, I have been rooting for them in this series. It's just an authentic basketball feeling that I have when I'm watching this team. I'm watching them and I want them to win. So like that is that I believe in the thunder and I have so much respect for the thunder. And we're going to talk about the specific reasons why I think they still deserve to be favored in the series. But yeah, like I'm sitting on the couch and I find myself rooting for the Pacers because they're just such an unbelievably likable basketball team that plays such a beautiful brand of basketball. You've got a couple of U of A guys on the roster. That's obviously going to appeal to me in my sentimentality a certain amount, right? So, like, this is, they've just, I think they've been such an excellent showcase for the next generation of basketball fans to see what the best version of modern basketball looks like.

And I've just really enjoyed watching them in this playoff run on the Oklahoma City front. They look to be in really strong position for three quarters. After J-dub hit that little side step three at the top of the key at the end of the third quarter that put them up five, I thought they were going to pull that game out. It mostly came down to turnovers. Their half-court offensive rating wasn't good. I think it was like a 93, if I remember correctly. But they were, they were efficient in their specific actions. When they didn't turn the ball over, they got good looks.

And I'm sure that's what Degnaught will be talking about when he watches the film and he talks to his guys. He's going to be like, look, when we don't turn the basketball over and we get the ball through their defense, we get quality looks. Oklahoma City shot the ball really well last night. Like that's the other thing too. Like if you're a Pacers fan, you're looking for another upside. Like you won game one despite the insane amount of turnovers. You won game three, despite the fact that Oklahoma City shot substantially better than you did. There's a lot of upside there if you're a Pacers fan looking for some optimism, looking forward in the series.

But Oklahoma City did when they didn't turn the ball over. They did get good looks. They were very efficient in pick and roll. In this entire series, Oklahoma City has been extremely, well, especially in game two and three, I should say. Oklahoma City has been very, very efficient attacking in pick and roll. They have a lot of upside that they've been able to identify through three games. games, they just can't turn the ball over as much as they did. They, uh, they did get away from their pet action. Like, it's funny, every team has to have a pet action that they trust in order to

have success later in playoff series. And I think the Sheigildas Alexander ball screens where they're attacking Miles Turner in space are really, really good. And they're getting great stuff out of them. Even in the fourth quarter, they got a wide open three for Lou Dort out of the left corner and out of that action and they should have got another wide open three for Lou Dorp, but Chet missed a read off of a short roll a catch. But like, they consistently get four on threes out of it because either the guy shows too high and Shea dumps it over the top and that guy gets a four on three on the roll or Shay's just beating that, uh, that at the level show from Turner because he's too slow to keep him in front in space or Shay's rejecting the screen and now Turner's on the wrong

side of the screen and he's getting four on three anyway. They get a lot of good stuff out of that, but they didn't spam it enough. Like, classic example, the one that Dort missed. Like, Shea runs the ball screen with Chet, top of the key. They get a wide open three for Lou Dord out of it. So like, textbook process. And Lou Dort's been shooting the shit out of the basketball in this series. Dort misses the three. So instead of being like, we ran good process, got a great shot. Let's go back to it. They went right down the floor on the next possession. She didn't see the ball. They went through, they went through J. Dub. And it's like, I guess. it like j dub was having success he was attacking knee smith and having some success but like by far the

most reliable action for the thunder in the series has been shea attacking turner and ball screens at the level they get great stuff out of it every single time and i didn't think they ran it nearly enough in the fourth quarter and that's the thing with young basketball players they struggle to identify what's working and replicate it and identify what's not working and get away from it and so i do think there was a little bit of an execution misstep in that fourth quarter looking forward in the series again And as we talk about, as series progress, the low-hanging fruit stuff becomes harder and harder to come by, you know, unless you're playing the Knicks and suddenly they play their worst transition defense and overall details game in game six. That's kind of unusual.

But most, for the most part, teams kind of get a little better at identifying and staying in front of that stuff as series progresses, as the series progresses. And then actions get snuffed out, right? And so all of a sudden it becomes, what are your reliable, unguardable actions? What are the things you can run that are guaranteed to generate you a good shot in the half court because they don't have a good option to defend it? And I think Oklahoma City has a really reliable action that they can go to to generate a good shot. It's that Shea high ball screen with Miles Turner where they're just consistently getting four on threes out of it. I'm not sure Indy has established any one single action that reliable. It's been kind of different stuff in every different part of the game.

it's very much like a flow and a rhythm that Indiana gets that involves everybody. So I still would make Oklahoma City a favorite to win the series at this point. But to be clear, we have officially entered into the Pacers have a great chance to win this series territory. That's where we're at now. You know, we always talk about like you got to take it one game at a time, all the stuff that you hear in press conferences, when teams are just saying all the meaningless platitudes that we hear. But it's true. It's one game at a time, right?

You play again on Friday. If you beat the Thunder on Friday, you're in excellent position to win the series. It's two days off between every game from that point forward. You'll have two days off between game five and game six back in Indiana. And that city will be on fire. And you win one game in game six. Suddenly you win the championship. So everything centers around Friday.

Win Friday, the pathway is there for you to win the series. All of a sudden, I think I'd make you a favorite if you win on Friday. So it is incredibly a challenge. achievable. You did the job. You did the job to this point. You stole home court advantage and you won one of your home games. It's when two home games and the trophy is yours. It is right there for the taking. But as it, you know that expression that like in baseball, that momentum is only as strong as your next night starting pitcher. The point being like, doesn't matter if you won five games in a row or four games in a row. Doesn't matter, you know, what positive momentum you've built up if the next

dude who comes to town has like a 102 mile an hour two seamer that he keeps down in the zone and no one can hit. And he counters it with a slider that everyone's swinging out of their shoes, even though it lands, you know, 18 inches outside of the strike zone. Like if that is what's happening and your dudes are all swinging out of their shoes and they can't make contact, no one cares about your momentum. No one cares about what kind of like vibe you've got going in the dugout. right similarly in the NBA momentum is only as strong as like can you score against Oklahoma City's defense when they really really tighten the screws and as we saw in the third quarter in particular they can tighten the screws on this Pacers team and cause problems for me I think they only

had 20 points in that quarter and it was a lot of the same stuff we saw in game two like super intense closeouts that were kind of shaking Indiana spot up shooters they went really cold there is a there's a level that Oklahoma City can get too athletically and I believe that they will reach that point game four, understanding the desperation of the situation for the majority of that game. And so I think it's going to be a much, much puffer game to win. And in that setting, Oklahoma City has this really reliable action they can go to at the top of the key to get great shots, not to mention just Shay ISO is a relatively reliable action in this matchup. And so it's going to be tough. That's the challenge. That game four is going to be the toughest game of the series by far for the Pacers.

I absolutely think they can win it. I absolutely think they have a great. right chance to win this series. But at this point, I think Oklahoma City's defense at its ceiling has proven to be a little bit better than Indiana's. And I think they have a reliable action that they can go to. I think Oklahoma City is going to win game four, win game five, and then win one of the next two games. So I'm going to stick with Oklahoma City in six or seven. But the Pacers have done exactly what we hoped they would do. They have put themselves in a position to win this series, coming into the series despite it being one of the most substantial favorites in recent NBA history. So shout out to the Pacers for making this an entertaining series.

One last note on that action. We talked about that high ball screen attacking Turner in space. I want to dive into this action just a tiny bit further for just a couple minutes and then we'll be done. So why would you bring a big up to the level? You bring a big up to the level to dissuade a pull-up shooter. So like let's say you're playing Steph, you don't want him coming off of screens and shoot and pull-up three. so you need someone at the level that can kind of like take away that shot right or two to take away the runway right so like athletic guards that are really good dribble drive guys a lot of times you'll

show at the level just so that they can't curl the screen and get going they curl the screen and run into somebody before they can get their momentum and so it's like stops them from giving dribble penetration right or three to blitz get the ball out of their hands right but the problem that the pacers are having in this action and the reason why these shea ball screens with chet and Hartnstein that attack Turner and space have been so effective is that Turner's going up to the level and he's not containing the ball and Shea's getting past him or the roll man's getting past him. The ball is getting past Turner almost every time when he gets up to the level. And so that literally defeats the purpose. If you're, that defeats the purpose unless you're consistently

getting the ball out of Shea's hands. But Shea himself is dribbling past Turner much of the time. Like, there were a couple plays in the second half where they were more blitzy with Turner and he was super aggressive and he forced Shea to get rid of the basketball. That's fine. At the very least, you're forcing them to play four on three without Shea in the action. But like there's way too many examples of Turner coming up to the level and Shay just dribbling right around him. And so my thing is keep pressure in him. But if Shea's going to get past him, if the ball is going to get past him, no matter what, you might as well have him at the rim or closer to the rim. And so all I, I'm advocating for is just running a deeper drop coverage with Turner. Will that have its issues?

Of course. Now all of a sudden he's going to have to deal with someone coming downhill at him, but at least he's got link to bother at the rim. Now you're going to concede a lot of pull up mid-range jump shots in drop coverage around the elbows. Okay, but I'd rather give that up than some of the stuff they're getting out of these four-on-threes, especially when Shea himself beats the at-the-level coverage. And so my thing is like, don't bring Turner up to the level unless he can either contain the ball or force Shay to get rid of it. And he hasn't been able to do that in this series. So I would have him in more of a deeper drop or at least you're making his length a factor at the

rim. Because again, like that is the action. They're going to have to find a way to guard if they're going to win this series. They're going to have to find a way to guard that SGA ball screen that attacks Miles Turner in space. All right, guys. It's all I have for today. As always, I sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting me and supporting the show.

We will be back tomorrow night. After the final buzzer of game four of the NBA finals, I'm incredibly excited. It'll be just me that night. Me and Jackson, we're breaking it down. We'll have a mailbag. We'll also head over to playback and take questions and watch some film. Really looking forward to game four. I will see you guys then.

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