The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hoops Tonight - INSTANT REACTION: Kevin Durant TRADED to Rockets, Jalen Green, Dillon Brooks to Suns | Hoops Tonight

Episode Date: June 22, 2025

Jason REACTS to the blockbuster trade between the Houston Rockets and the Phoenix Suns on the day of Game 7 of the NBA Finals in which superstar Kevin Durant was moved for Jalen Green, Dillion Brooks, the 10th overall pick in the 2025 NBA Draft, and 5 2nd round picks. Jason breaks down what this means for the Rockets immediate contention aspirations, as well as how it affects rising Rockets stars such as Amen Thompson and Jabari Smith Jr. Jason also breaks down how the Suns should approach the development of the backcourt of Jalen Green and Devin Booker, and questions whether Phoenix will eventually look to move Booker within the next 12 months. #Volume #Herd  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm going to be breaking down this deal from the perspective of both teams. When we are done, obviously we're still planning on doing all of our NBA NBA finals coverage tonight. And then obviously we go headlong into the draft and everything next week. So it's going to be a little bit crazy. But we have our reaction to the Kevin Durant trade. You guys know the Joe before we get started. Subscribe to the Hoops Tonight YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos.

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Houston is sending back Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks, the number 10 pick in this year's draft, and then five additional second round picks. Now, for starters, everyone is dogging the Phoenix Sons today for getting an awful asset return and basically nuking their franchise over the course of the last two years. I have a little bit more of like a nuanced, positive-ish kind of take on that. We'll share more about it in a bit. I'm a big believer in self-awareness and not like doubling down on your mistakes. So we'll get to that in a little bit.

But I want to start with Houston Rockets. This was my second favorite KD destination behind the Minnesota Timberwolves. I think redundancy is where you see teams that are on paper looking very talented underachee. That's how things went south for Phoenix. It's very easy to talk yourself into just sheer in a vacuum talent into a Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, Bradley Beal team being a very good basketball team. But the problem is Kevin Durant and Devin Booker, basically do the same job. And Bradley Beal, while not being as good as Devin Booker and Kevin Durant,

basically did the same job in Minnesota. And so I always talk about this big picture concept of needing to check boxes on a basketball court. You need your lineup of five guys to check boxes on both ends of the floor, an offense. It's like advantage creation, play finishing, screening, you know, all these like different connective playmaking, all these different things that you need the perfect concoction of for offense to work, shooting ability, vertical spacing ability, all these things kind of come together on the defense event, guys that can guard on the perimeter, guys that can guard multiple positions and different types of switches, guys that can protect the rim, guys that can communicate on the backline as like basically the defensive

coach, so to speak, on the backline, calling out coverages. There's all these different things, defensive rebounding. You need guards in the NBA. These, days because of long rebounds to crack down off of the weak side or off of the perimeter to help their bigs in long rebound situations. You need all these boxes to be checked to be a good basketball team. And so if Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Biel all check the same boxes, there's going to be a lot of unchecked boxes. That is the redundancy effect. That is what causes a team to not live up to what their potential is on paper. There's no doubt that can, Kevin Durant's life on offense in Houston will not be as easy as it was in Phoenix or as it was in Brooklyn or as it was in Golden State.

There are places where KD could have gone where he could have had an easier life on offense. If you would have chosen Miami, I think with the Tyler Harrow and Bamette, a bio is a screening folk room up top, things would have been a little easier for him in offense if you would have somehow made it to the Knicks. But KD's skill set would have been less valuable in those. situations. If we've learned anything in this year's playoffs, it's that the playoffs are a physical bloodbath. Houston dragged the rockets, or excuse me, Houston dragged the Warriors to a seventh game with that physicality. Minnesota bullied the Lakers out of the playoffs with that physicality. Look at what Oklahoma City has done to everybody. Look at what Indiana has done with their ball pressure

in a different form of physicality in terms of just the way they can wear you down by running. You win in the playoffs by winning the physical battle. And the teams that Katie has been on in recent years have not been very physical basketball teams, and that is where they have lost the rope, which we'll get to when we talk a little bit about Phoenix. The Rockets, though, are a team that is perfectly built

to thrive in that setting. A bunch of really big, strong perimeter defense, even without Dylan Brooks. And then a power player on offense, a legitimate power threat on offense in Alper and Shangoon that can draw a lot of defensive attention to right around the basket. The one thing that Houston lacked,

despite being a two seed, despite being able to take that Warriors team to seven games, the one thing they lacked was high-end, refined offensive skill. And I would argue KD, is still one of the most skilled and most refined offensive basketball players in the entire world. Last year, just this last, the season we're still finishing, the one that ends today. He was still the best jump shooter in the world this season.

Among 58 players in the NBA to take at least 500 jump shots this season, Kevin Durant was the only player in the league to shoot over 50% from the field. second place was Shea, who was at 45%, a full 5% below. And even when you wait it for threes, Kevin Durant's 1.22 points per jump shot was number one in the NBA, among the 58 players to take at least 500. He was also far and away, still the best one-on-one player in the league last year. Out of the 10 players who ran at least 250 ISOs, including passes, his 1.1.1. one six points per possession was number one in the league and a full six points per 100

possessions better than Shea Gilders Alexander who was in second place. He immediately comes in the door and provides a ton of offensive utility for this team. The Rockets didn't have a single player that you needed to show at the level in screening action against. I've talked about this concept a lot. We talked about it with Desmond Bain and the Orlando Magic. One of the most valuable things you can do in the NBA is via threat as a jump shooter coming off of a screen because it inverts spacing. If you can come off of a screen and knock a shot down, you draw a lock and trail defender who's going to chase you over the top and you're going to force the screen defender, the guy who's guarding the screener to come up to contest you on the other end.

That means your screener can slip out behind it and there's four on threes all day every day. If you have that type of player. He will immediately bring in so much advantage creation with his ability to shoot off of screens. This will open up all sorts of opportunities on the roll, on the skip when rollers are tagged. Advantages will be much easier to come by for this Houston team. A men Thompson has already shown great utility as a connective passer and as a vertical spacing threat out of the dunker spot.

Now we're going to get to see a ton of. action where Amen Thompson is getting four on three opportunities short rolling off of KD. I'm super excited to see a whole new level to amend Thompson's offensive game just by playing two-man game with KD and dictating that both defenders go with KD. KD easily drops it over the top. Now Amend Thompson is screaming at you downhill with all of the playmaking talent, the vertical talent, and the shot making talent close to the basket to be a threat there. KD will score an off ball action. He'll attract attention in off ball,

like off ball like pin downs and stuff like that. Katie, I've created videos about this in the past. We did a whole YouTube video about it a couple of years ago. Katie is a master at getting easy shots for himself by setting up his man for screens and doing a good job getting open in the flow of the offense. He'll create space as a weak side spacer off of Alper and Shangun post-ups and face-ups. He will immediately come in the door.

and make things way easier for the Rockets on offense. On defense, he provides an element of functional rim protection that makes Shangun a more useful defensive player. There was one guy on the roster, Jabari Smith Jr., who didn't play as much as you'd think, who brought some sort of vertical kind of length element at the rim for the Rockets as an athlete. Obviously, Shangun and Adams have length,

but they're just not great jumpers, right? they're not guys that are going to block a ton of shots around the basket, right? What, uh, with Kevin Duran, you now break out one of those classic two-man dynamics in terms of screen defender and low man that should allow Shangoon to be more useful offensively. You can now bring Shangoon up to the level and have him be active with his hands knowing that you've got a seven footer standing underneath the basket in that low man situation. I think Kevin Durand has always been a pretty underrated defensive player. His effort can wax and Wayne from time to time, but he legitimately has insane tools for the

position. He's just going to make life better for them on both ends of the floor. As I look at the Rocket's new roster, because again, you're losing Dylan Brooks in this situation. You're losing Jalen Green. At the guard spot, you still have Fred Van Vleet. There's Reed Shepard and Aaron Holiday. Definitely a little light there. My first thought was like, like, man, you remember when Phoenix signed Tyos Jones and I told you guys that I thought it was redundant that I didn't understand the point in wasting one of those five key spots that you have in your starting group or closing group on a player who's again redundant with Devin Booker and Kevin Durant in this roster, if I was Kevin Durant, I'd be calling Tyos

Jones and be like, hey, bro, this is the set. This is the setting for you. They actually need a backup guard. They actually need ball handling. So why don't you? you come down here. It's definitely an area where they're a little light. On the wing, Amend Thompson, Tari Easton, Cam Whitmore, Jashon Tate at the forward spot. Kevin Durant, Jabari Smith, Jr. At the center spot, Shangoon Adams and Landale. Again, I think they're pretty deep and pretty solid

at every position group. They're just light on ball handling. And so if they can get a backup guard, a solid backup guard, and again, I would literally, like, I think Tyos Jones could help the Rockets in a way that he couldn't help the Sons. that's the type of fit where there's less redundancy. If you have Tice Jones surrounded by a bunch of big physical athletes, all of a sudden his ball handling and shooting becomes pretty valuable. If you have them alongside a bunch of other skinny finesse players,

it's a redundancy, you're getting a diminishing return there. Who's the starting slash closing five? So we know it's going to be Shangun, Kevin Durant, and Fred Van Vleet, most likely a men Thompson. Who's that fifth guy, though? that fifth guy was Dylan Brooks. That was the spot that he filled. You start to view Amen Thompson because, again, when it comes to positions,

offense, you can figure it out. Defense, you got to build your lineups based on who you can guard. Amend Thompson is defensively, effectively a two guard. He's going to guard the other team's best guard. So I think Fred Van Vleet and Amend Thompson, that works defensively as a back court. Kevin Durant and Shangoon works offense or works defensive. is a four or five. Who's going to play the three, though? That's where it gets a little trick.

Does this mean Jabari Smith Jr. starts at the three? I think both Jabari and Kevin Duran are pretty much functionally four men. Neither of them move their feet insanely well. Neither of them navigate screens insanely well. And specifically, Jabari Smith is a little bit of a ball stopper on offense. So I don't love the natural fit of that fifth guy. They're going to have to figure that out and that'll happen in time. Maybe it ends up being one of the bench guys. Maybe Javari Smith ends up taking a leap as a decision maker and as a connective playmaker and as a guy who can move his feet on the perimeter and maybe it all comes together. But I am curious to see how that starting closing five takes shape. But they do have surpluses. They can afford to move

a guy at a different position group. Like Javari Smith Jr., for instance, is a guy that I think has some value around the league that you might be able to flip for a player that stands more in line with what you need out of that three spot. Like do you call up Brooklyn and see if you can put together a deal that sends Jabari Smith Jr. and some additional draft compensation for Cam Johnson. And now all of a sudden you're rocking Cam Johnson and Kevin Durant alongside a men Thompson, Fred Van Vleet, and Alpern Changoon with just a boatload of super athletes. coming off the bench to anchor everything. They're going to have some stuff they need to work out, but I don't, I always say,

don't overthink it. This is the two seat in the NBA last year in the Western Conference that had a kick-ass physical defense that had a huge problem when it came to generating offense. Kevin Durant seamlessly slides into that spot and makes life a lot easier for them. My prediction is that Kevin Durant right away makes a big impact and that the Rockets look like bona fide contender and that everyone starts becoming convinced that KD somehow got better or something, which is ridiculous to me. All the stuff Katie's been saying on Twitter about how basketball is a team sport and

some of the realities of what's gone wrong over the last few years is true. KD is every bit as good as the LeBron James that took the Lakers to the Western Conference finals in 2023 or the Steph Curry that has done the work that he's done with the Warriors over the last few years. He's been on flawed rosters. Does KD deserve some blame for the types of teams that he's put himself in position with over the last couple years and kind of putting him in a position of redundancy, putting himself in a position of diminishing returns?

Sure. But once you get there and you look at the rosters and you look at the way it works, there are basketball reasons why those teams failed. And it wasn't because Kevin Durant wasn't good enough at doing Kevin Durant things. Here's the deal. Is Kevin Durant still a top? tier superstar. That's a true needle mover. No. And that's why he didn't go for four or five draft first round picks this time around. But he is still a legitimate second tier superstar in this

league that on any given night can play as well as the top guys in the league. And he will immediately address a specific need for the Rockets. And what I think is frustrating is we're going to be like watching KD in a second round playoff series having like 37 points and hitting three or four clutch jump shots and everyone's going to be like, oh my God, Kevin Durant, as if it's not the same damn guy who floundered in Phoenix last year. It is the same guy. Basketball is a team sport. It is ultimately. And Kevin Durant's going to go play for a much better basketball team. And you guys are going to pretty quickly see a lot of success. That doesn't mean he's going to win the title necessarily. It's hard to win a title in the NBA. But he's in the mix now. And I think that

for most of us, it's just going to be like such a pleasure to get to watch Kevin play in meaningful basketball games again. That's what I'm looking forward to. These big spots, or you see it's a big Western Conference Finals game or semifinals game or finals game where there's five minutes left and the scores 99.99, we're going to get to see KD in those moments again. And that to me is the most exciting part. I'm, this was my second favorite KD destination because I wanted to see him go play for a physical ass kicking team where his specific trait of, you know, indomitable offense would simply serve to lift them over the top rather than him needing to carry everything. And that's what Houston's going.

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Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a...

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call. about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it

one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

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Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. On the sun's front. Again, it's very easy to go and look at where they were before the KD trade. And be like, oh man, you trade McHale Bridges and Can't. Johnson and all this draft compensation and all you're getting back is Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green, a first round pick that's towards the tail end of the lottery, and five second round picks. I get it. I get that that looks terrible. But unfortunately, that's not actually how life works.

You don't make both of those trades in concert with each other. You make them separately from each other. I'm a big believer in taking risks, and I'm a big believer in self-awareness. And what happened to the Sons is they took a risk that didn't pay off because they had self-awareness, and now they're moving off of KD because they have self-awareness.

And to me, like, let's be real about what happened with the Sons. In 2021, with Chris Paul and Devin Booker and a bunch of really good roles, players in a year that was weird because of COVID and all of the top playoff teams in the league at the time Miami, Denver, the Lakers, Celtics, all of them were a beat broken, just not ready to compete in that season. All of a sudden we have this weird playoff run. There's a Tray Young led team in the conference finals. There's a Paul George led team in the conference finals without

Kauai Leonard. There's this son's team. And then there's obviously. the Milwaukee Bucks. The one team in that mix that was actually led by a bona fide superstar that actually had the characteristics of a championship team. And guess what? They won the title. They won the title that year. But in the process, the sons end up going up in the finals, 2-0.

And it looks exciting. And it looks like they're there. But as Draymond Green says, you can have two wins in the finals and still not be close. the Bucks ran them four games in a row. Then you fast forward to the next season. They get utterly humiliated by Luca Donchich in the second round, like straight up sunned by Luca Donchich in the second round. And I think they looked at the situation and they went,

we are not good enough. We are not good enough to win the title. That is self-awareness. then they look at it and they go, well, what if we get Kevin Durant? Kevin Durant is better than McAil Bridges, is better than Cam Johnson. What if he puts us over the top? They took a gamble. There are lots of teams in NBA history that have taken gambols and it's paid off,

and there are lots of teams that have done it and it hasn't. Generally speaking, I'm in support of pushing your chips into the middle and trying to go for the title. You get one title. You are immortal in the NBA. And by the way, in 2023, when the Nuggets won the title, who is the one team who like really actually kind of made things kind of difficult for them? The Phoenix Suns.

And it wasn't enough. And they weren't good enough. And it didn't pay off. But you don't hang on to Kevin Durant because you traded four first round draft picks him. Self-awareness again entered the equation. We are not good enough with KD. He is our best vehicle with which to bring back draft compensation and to try to pivot, to try to make this thing tenable for the future, and this is what they did. So they pushed their chips in, and it didn't work. I don't think

it's as bad as it looks on the surface strictly because that son's team from before. for the KD trade was not good enough to win the title. If they were, if they were a legitimate top-tier championship contender perennially, and then they did this, totally different conversation. They weren't good enough. They pushed their chips in. They got worse. Now they're getting ready to potentially rebuild.

Now, Jalen Green, I've talked about this with respect to him and Jonathan Kaminga. super flawed players, guys that specifically struggle with processing and reading the floor, guys that are inconsistent with their jump shooting, young players that make a lot of mistakes, especially on the defensive end. It's a mixed bag with these guys. But in the modern NBA, with how much of the league is played in transition,

with how much of the league is shifting more towards physicality with the officiating, with all of these things, having a true S-tier athlete that can get to his spot and elevate over the top to finish or elevate through traffic at the rim has a level of comfortability in those settings that lesser athletes don't have. Again, does that mean that Jalen Green's going to go be a top 10 player

in the NBA? No, I don't think that's going to happen. But I do think that Jalen Green and guys like Jonathan Caminger, guys in this like super freaky raw athlete category, have a lot of upside. And so again, as far as Jalen Green goes, you're getting a chance with him. They're getting a chance with him in Phoenix to see if maybe he can develop into that type of player.

Being around Devin Booker will be very good for him. Devin Booker has a lot of that, you know, traditional two-guard bag, so to speak, but he is an excellent passer. He is a guy who has developed into one of the better high pick and roll playmakers in the league. lead. Getting him with Jalen to help him learn about those reeds to get him to take a damn deep breath every once in a while and relax and to approach the game with a little bit more of like a change

of pace element. All of that will be good for Jalen. And you know what? Maybe you can keep Devin Booker around Jalen for a year and just see how things go next year and then pivot off of Devin, Devin Booker when the time comes. I don't like the idea of a Devin Booker Jalen Green backcourt. I don't think that's a championship back court. I don't think that's a back court that compliments each other really well. But in the short term, I like the partnership because I think Devin Booker has the ability to teach a lot of higher level offensive basketball to Jalen. Not to mention Devin Booker on Team USA was their primary point of attack defender, and he can help Jalen Green with his defensive discipline and his attention to detail. So ultimately, is it ugly? Yeah. The

Sons did get nuked over the last two years. But the nuking was a product of them being aware that they were not a championship team, gambling on one of the greatest players in NBA history, it not working, and them being aware enough to acknowledge that it didn't work and to take the first step forward into the next era. You weren't getting four first round picks for Kevin Duran. Not at his age.

He's not a true, like, needle-moving top-tier superstar anymore. He is a second-tier superstar that he is. can help an already really good team go over the top. That's about what you get in return. A star with some upside, a young, a young guard with some upside. Dylan Brooks, who's legitimately one of the better three and D players in the league, I think Dylan Brooks is a really good player. Dylan Brooks is going to help the sons.

Like, Dylan Brooks will make the sons substantially more of a pain in the ass to beat next year. There's upside there. There's value there. maybe it turns into you trading Dylan Brooks for draft picks and trading Devin Booker for draft picks, but this was the first step into the direction of the next era of Suns basketball. I don't think they were winning a title with Chris Paul, Devin Booker, Mikhail Bridges, and Cam Johnson. I don't think they were close.

I don't think they were winning a title. They went for it with KD. It didn't work. It's time to move on. That's what they did today. All right, guys. That is all I have for today. Again, we would be back with Colin Coward tonight.

I'm sure we'll have more thoughts on the KD trade as well. We'll have a new NBA champion tonight. That's super exciting. I've already talked to Sam Vassini. He's coming on the show on Monday. We're going to be recording an NBA draft preview. Tons of content coming out over the next couple of days. And then the draft is literally on Wednesday.

So the NBA never stops. Thanks to a longer NBA finals, it's all running into each other now. But we're going to be with you guys every step of the way. I will see you guys tonight after game seven. What's up, guys. As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting hoops tonight. It would actually be really helpful for us if you guys would take a second and leave a rating and a review.

As always, I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you. If you could take a minute to do that, I'd really appreciate it. The volume. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being an ass question.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of the.

those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit season two on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio, nonstop workout music and expert tips 24-7. Hey, head over to iHeart.com. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free right now. Awesome health and wellness tips 24 hours a day. seven days a week. Remember, stick to the fight. When your hardest hit, it's when things seem worse that you must not quit. Don't quit. Body by Jake Radio, where hope meets momentum.

Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free. Have a great day. IHeart Radio. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.